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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » That designated deputy Raab last spoke to Boris on Saturday ra

SystemSystem Posts: 11,682
edited April 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » That designated deputy Raab last spoke to Boris on Saturday raises questions of who is running the country

"I spoke to the PM on Saturday, [that] was the last time I spoke to him," says Foreign Secretary Dominic RaabBoris Johnson is in hospital with "persistent symptoms" of coronavirus https://t.co/OIh7EwyqSR pic.twitter.com/HDmG3ygnUP

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    eekeek Posts: 24,979
    edited April 2020
    First again.

    But Boris is in hospital, apart from a story for the sake of it why should Raab be talking to someone who should be resting to get better.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    eek said:

    First again.

    But Boris is in hospital, apart from a story for the sake of it why should Raab be talking to someone who should be resting to get better.

    He shouldn’t. And the government shouldn’t be pretending that Boris Johnson is currently in charge.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    Pulpstar said:

    Johnson doesn't need to resign even if he is very sick. Raab can direct things for now without officially being PM

    Quite so.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    The Masters has been rescheduled for Nov 9 to 15.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,433
    edited April 2020
    My father says Boris Johnson is needlessly risking his long term health and his life by wanting to still be in control.

    Nobody will think less of you PM if you spend a while solely focussing on getting better.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,928
    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Johnson doesn't need to resign even if he is very sick. Raab can direct things for now without officially being PM

    Quite so.
    I'm no Raab fan but he's the correct person to be running things at the moment.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060

    eek said:

    First again.

    But Boris is in hospital, apart from a story for the sake of it why should Raab be talking to someone who should be resting to get better.

    He shouldn’t. And the government shouldn’t be pretending that Boris Johnson is currently in charge.
    Why can't we maintain a polite fiction for a few days?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    Raab may have just discovered how much his title of First Secretary of State indicates trust from Boris, and it is not massive apparently.
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,894
    Johnson is probably following doctors' orders by not talking to Raab. The risk of increasing Boris' blood pressure to even worse levels is too great.
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
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    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    My father says Boris Johnson is needlessly risking his long term health and his life by wanting to still be in control.

    Nobody will think less of you if you spend a while solely focussing on getting better.

    I presume that Boris is a fatalist - he believes that he's either fated to survive this or he isn't. If he is, he'd prefer to be in charge, and if he isn't then he'd still prefer to be in charge.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,122

    eek said:

    First again.

    But Boris is in hospital, apart from a story for the sake of it why should Raab be talking to someone who should be resting to get better.

    He shouldn’t. And the government shouldn’t be pretending that Boris Johnson is currently in charge.
    Why can't we maintain a polite fiction for a few days?
    What earthly difference does it make who is nominally in charge, in the current situation?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    "Everyone's different, but here's my experience and how I think it applies to the PM"
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    Chris said:

    eek said:

    First again.

    But Boris is in hospital, apart from a story for the sake of it why should Raab be talking to someone who should be resting to get better.

    He shouldn’t. And the government shouldn’t be pretending that Boris Johnson is currently in charge.
    Why can't we maintain a polite fiction for a few days?
    What earthly difference does it make who is nominally in charge, in the current situation?
    Agreed, it`s just mischief-making
  • Options
    RobD said:

    "Everyone's different, but here's my experience and how I think it applies to the PM"
    Well hers was less severe than the PM's, so she has a point.
  • Options

    My father says Boris Johnson is needlessly risking his long term health and his life by wanting to still be in control.

    Nobody will think less of you if you spend a while solely focussing on getting better.

    I presume that Boris is a fatalist - he believes that he's either fated to survive this or he isn't. If he is, he'd prefer to be in charge, and if he isn't then he'd still prefer to be in charge.
    What's the bloody point of spending your entire life wanting to PM when your ego means you're PM for less than a year?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    .

    RobD said:

    "Everyone's different, but here's my experience and how I think it applies to the PM"
    Well hers was less severe than the PM's, so she has a point.
    Does she? The CMO says otherwise.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    TGOHF666 said:
    Tentative thought: I wonder if what could develop is a "race" to relax restrictions, which could give an economic advantage to who gets out of the traps first?
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    Stocky said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Tentative thought: I wonder if what could develop is a "race" to relax restrictions, which could give an economic advantage to who gets out of the traps first?
    Good luck with the second wave to our German pals then.
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    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    My father says Boris Johnson is needlessly risking his long term health and his life by wanting to still be in control.

    Nobody will think less of you if you spend a while solely focussing on getting better.

    I presume that Boris is a fatalist - he believes that he's either fated to survive this or he isn't. If he is, he'd prefer to be in charge, and if he isn't then he'd still prefer to be in charge.
    What's the bloody point of spending your entire life wanting to PM when your ego means you're PM for less than a year?
    You said that about the election...
  • Options

    My father says Boris Johnson is needlessly risking his long term health and his life by wanting to still be in control.

    Nobody will think less of you if you spend a while solely focussing on getting better.

    I presume that Boris is a fatalist - he believes that he's either fated to survive this or he isn't. If he is, he'd prefer to be in charge, and if he isn't then he'd still prefer to be in charge.
    What's the bloody point of spending your entire life wanting to PM when your ego means you're PM for less than a year?
    You said that about the election...
    Did I? Or did I predict a majority of between 40 and 70 for Boris?
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    RobD said:

    .

    RobD said:

    "Everyone's different, but here's my experience and how I think it applies to the PM"
    Well hers was less severe than the PM's, so she has a point.
    Does she? The CMO says otherwise.
    None of these goons listen to he CMO because he’s not in the politico bubble .

    They should get an EU spin doctor to read the lines out at the lectern - there would be a C4 special and a a BBC daily podcast dedicated to repeating the output.
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Johnson went into hospital Sunday night. Maybe it was a spur of the moment thing. And maybe he’s been sleeping all day and/or in tests and is a bit busy to talk to Raab right now.
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    kingbongokingbongo Posts: 393
    Stocky said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Tentative thought: I wonder if what could develop is a "race" to relax restrictions, which could give an economic advantage to who gets out of the traps first?
    Denmark basically promising a gradual relaxation of an already fairly light lockdown possibly with schools having adjusted opening times and avoiding things like rush-hour - I think it’s crazy and won’t be going back into a lecture theatre for a while yet whatever our directorate say
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Hard to square all of this with not extending the Brexit extension.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,122
    glw said:

    Stocky said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Tentative thought: I wonder if what could develop is a "race" to relax restrictions, which could give an economic advantage to who gets out of the traps first?
    Good luck with the second wave to our German pals then.
    I think that is much more of a danger in Germany (and Austria) than in Italy, Spain, France or the UK. Though I am guessing it is a real danger for all of them.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    I don't give a monkeys if Boris is resting or killing himself with overwork. It will matter little.

    His health secrets will be protected by medical ethics and the short-term course is already plotted anyway. Keep a lid on things and wait for the peak to pass. A point the experts will advise on.

    So what was the point of the press conference? Apart from an excuse to publish misleading headlines for the journalists. We'd get more information from viewers' questions.

    I suspect the journalists think that bringing in an antibody test is just a matter of decanting one test tube of coloured liquid into another test tube with another brightly-coloured liquid in it.

    Whitty explained the problem well, but it was pointless. Relativity explained to a slug.

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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited April 2020
    That's after 4k new cases yesterday. Scaled to UK detection rates, that'd be 500ish, so a long way off for us at present.
    TGOHF666 said:
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    What he says is Saturday was the last time he spoke to him *in person.* Either that means face to face in which case this is a non issue, because who cares whether they meet or speak via Skype, or it means to him rather than his spokesman, which seems unlikely because why would they converse via intermediary. Johnson is presumably strictly isolated if he is in hospital, whereas he was less so on Saturday (because not in hospital). So my guess is that this is a complete non issue and Raab has communicated direct with Johnson, but not face to face more recently than Saturday. The confusion quite unnecessarily created doesn't of course inspire confidence in Raab.
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    Hard to square all of this with not extending the Brexit extension.

    It's inevitable according to Downing Street, the only issue now is for how long.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,002
    edited April 2020
    Raab is clearly in reality de facto PM at the moment but Boris is still alive and still technically PM.

    It is similar to when Bush Snr effectively ran the US while Reagan was in hospital after being shot
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    Hard to square all of this with not extending the Brexit extension.

    German lockdown is ending - they run the EU.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,928
    Germany is testing around 75000 a day I think ?
    We're up to 13k now. Need much greater test capacity before any restrictions lift
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718

    Hard to square all of this with not extending the Brexit extension.

    It's inevitable according to Downing Street, the only issue now is for how long.
    Source?
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Can you actually physically speak if on a ventilator?
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    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    My father says Boris Johnson is needlessly risking his long term health and his life by wanting to still be in control.

    Nobody will think less of you if you spend a while solely focussing on getting better.

    I presume that Boris is a fatalist - he believes that he's either fated to survive this or he isn't. If he is, he'd prefer to be in charge, and if he isn't then he'd still prefer to be in charge.
    What's the bloody point of spending your entire life wanting to PM when your ego means you're PM for less than a year?
    You said that about the election...
    Did I? Or did I predict a majority of between 40 and 70 for Boris?
    I'm pretty sure you expressed the view that there was a risk he could be a historically short-lived PM. But I really don't want to have an argument on that point.

    Back to fatalism. The real answer to your question 'What's the bloody point of spending your entire life wanting to PM when your ego means you're PM for less than a year?' is that he doesn't believe that his survival is really up to him. He learned his classics lessons all too well. As Eteocles said as he went out to fight his brother to the death before the seventh gate of Thebes, θεῶν διδόντων οὐκ ἂν ἐκφύγοις κακά - from god-sent ills, there's no escape.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,282
    Much better numbers for the UK again today. Maybe yesterday was a blip and we really have peaked.

    As for Boris he needs a consultant that tells him to cut this running the country crap out, to rest as much as he possibly can and to concentrate on getting well. He does not want an unborn child to lose its father before it is even born
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited April 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    Germany is testing around 75000 a day I think ?
    We're up to 13k now. Need much greater test capacity before any restrictions lift

    Yeah, although worth noting that S Korea has only tested 6k each of the last two days. Once you suppress it down to a low level of daily cases, it maybe doesn't take too much to keep it there (though obviously we'd need to learn to replicate and adapt their methods and couldn't expect to be as efficient).
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,002

    Hard to square all of this with not extending the Brexit extension.

    Extend it until next June, that takes us past the Holyrood 2021 elections which helps maximise the chances of a Unionist majority, killing 2 birds with 1 stone
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Hard to square all of this with not extending the Brexit extension.

    It's inevitable according to Downing Street, the only issue now is for how long.
    At least two years tbh, we need the economic fog to clear for all of next year.
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    Stocky said:

    Hard to square all of this with not extending the Brexit extension.

    It's inevitable according to Downing Street, the only issue now is for how long.
    Source?
    The Sunday Times.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,928
    RobD said:

    "Everyone's different, but here's my experience and how I think it applies to the PM"
    You can almost tell by eye roughly how severe people are likely to have it, and she's got a lot more factors in her favour than Boris
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Any country which wants to relax lockdown on the basis that its own figures are under control is still going to need some draconian measures to prevent travellers from more infected countries crossing their borders and triggering the whole epidemic again. I wonder how that can work in the modern world, not least internally in the EU.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718

    Any country which wants to relax lockdown on the basis that its own figures are under control is still going to need some draconian measures to prevent travellers from more infected countries crossing their borders and triggering the whole epidemic again. I wonder how that can work in the modern world, not least internally in the EU.

    They won`t be able to prevent that. I sense that governments are coming to realise that this is all about herd immunity whilst keeping hospitals within capacity. A tricky thing to finesse.
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    BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    " So, unless they are communicating in some other way … "

    christ
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,928

    Any country which wants to relax lockdown on the basis that its own figures are under control is still going to need some draconian measures to prevent travellers from more infected countries crossing their borders and triggering the whole epidemic again. I wonder how that can work in the modern world, not least internally in the EU.

    New Zealand and Australia seem to be able to manage it, we're an island so should be able to pull the same trick.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    Downing Street flatly denies claims ...

    I agree that an extention is looking almost certain.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,928
    As for Draconian measures, well we're well into that game with our freedom of movement from our own houses restricted.
    Or are the people moving through Heathrow simply more important ?
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Any country which wants to relax lockdown on the basis that its own figures are under control is still going to need some draconian measures to prevent travellers from more infected countries crossing their borders and triggering the whole epidemic again. I wonder how that can work in the modern world, not least internally in the EU.

    Antibody and antigen tests, test certificates, quarantine, are going to be the new normal.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,122
    Stocky said:

    Any country which wants to relax lockdown on the basis that its own figures are under control is still going to need some draconian measures to prevent travellers from more infected countries crossing their borders and triggering the whole epidemic again. I wonder how that can work in the modern world, not least internally in the EU.

    They won`t be able to prevent that. I sense that governments are coming to realise that this is all about herd immunity whilst keeping hospitals within capacity. A tricky thing to finesse.
    German deaths are an order of magnitude below Italian and Spanish deaths. Italy, Spain, France and the UK may acquire a degree of herd immunity, but Germany isn't on course to do that.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,379
    Masks. Will we get them? Both America and Germany want people to wear masks. France is considering it. Are we next?
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Tim_B said:

    The Masters has been rescheduled for Nov 9 to 15.

    https://www.golfchannel.com/news/majors-gets-fall-overhaul-masters-us-open-and-pga-rescheduled

    Although the schedule is still very much a work in progress officials from Augusta National, the USGA and the PGA of America announced in a joint statement on Monday that the Masters will be played Nov. 12-15; the PGA Championship will be held Aug. 6-9 at TPC Harding Park in San Francisco, where it was originally scheduled to be played; and the U.S. Open will be relocated to Sept. 18-21 and the championship will remain at Winged Foot in Mamaroneck, N.Y.

    Totally bonkers. I’m glad the R&A have seen sense.
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    IshmaelZ said:

    Any country which wants to relax lockdown on the basis that its own figures are under control is still going to need some draconian measures to prevent travellers from more infected countries crossing their borders and triggering the whole epidemic again. I wonder how that can work in the modern world, not least internally in the EU.

    Antibody and antigen tests, test certificates, quarantine, are going to be the new normal.
    Sounds like EU red tape - systems like that will take months to set up.

    Lockdown will lift in May.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited April 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    As for Draconian measures, well we're well into that game with our freedom of movement from our own houses restricted.
    Or are the people moving through Heathrow simply more important ?

    Not so much people moving through Heathrow, perhaps, but truck drivers bringing in our food.

    I was talking (at a safe distance, natch!) to our excellent fishmonger on Saturday, who told me that one of the supply problems is that a lot of farmed bass and bream comes from Turkey and Greece. They can send trucks over, but when they get back the drivers have to go into quarantine for 10 days, completely clobbering the supply chain. Extrapolate that to supplies from France, Spain, Italy and the Netherlands, and you've got a real problem.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    Any country which wants to relax lockdown on the basis that its own figures are under control is still going to need some draconian measures to prevent travellers from more infected countries crossing their borders and triggering the whole epidemic again. I wonder how that can work in the modern world, not least internally in the EU.

    That's true of essentially everywhere.

    Until very recently, you could get on a plane and go pretty much anywhere with zero checks.

    That will change.

    You see it now with China. You will see it in other areas. I don't doubt that if Scotland was largely CV-19 free, and the England was not, then you would see restrictions on people crossing the border. You'll certainly see it across Schengen.

    My guess is that you'll see "two way" re-openings happen relatively quickly. If Luxembourg and Belgium both see CV-19 cases drop to near zero, then things will normalise there quite quickly.

    I suspect a much bigger issue will be places like the US. Wyoming or North Dakota - where social distancing is a natural consequence of incredibly spread out populations - will probably not bother with restrictions. Which means they'll keep low levels of CV-19 infections, well, in perpetuity.

    This means that a New York will never really be free of it either, because people will come from Wyoming on a regular basis.

    And that means travel between the US and the UK will need to be restricted.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,122

    Masks. Will we get them? Both America and Germany want people to wear masks. France is considering it. Are we next?

    No logical reason not to, except that they are in short supply.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,002
    edited April 2020
    tlg86 said:

    Tim_B said:

    The Masters has been rescheduled for Nov 9 to 15.

    https://www.golfchannel.com/news/majors-gets-fall-overhaul-masters-us-open-and-pga-rescheduled

    Although the schedule is still very much a work in progress officials from Augusta National, the USGA and the PGA of America announced in a joint statement on Monday that the Masters will be played Nov. 12-15; the PGA Championship will be held Aug. 6-9 at TPC Harding Park in San Francisco, where it was originally scheduled to be played; and the U.S. Open will be relocated to Sept. 18-21 and the championship will remain at Winged Foot in Mamaroneck, N.Y.

    Totally bonkers. I’m glad the R&A have seen sense.
    Given it looks like lockdown should be over by mid June, Kurz today announced Austria would even be open for business again by mid May, the USPGA and PGA's decision to postpone not cancel the golf looks sensible
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tim_B said:

    The Masters has been rescheduled for Nov 9 to 15.

    https://www.golfchannel.com/news/majors-gets-fall-overhaul-masters-us-open-and-pga-rescheduled

    Although the schedule is still very much a work in progress officials from Augusta National, the USGA and the PGA of America announced in a joint statement on Monday that the Masters will be played Nov. 12-15; the PGA Championship will be held Aug. 6-9 at TPC Harding Park in San Francisco, where it was originally scheduled to be played; and the U.S. Open will be relocated to Sept. 18-21 and the championship will remain at Winged Foot in Mamaroneck, N.Y.

    Totally bonkers. I’m glad the R&A have seen sense.
    Given it looks like lockdown should be over by mid June, Kurz today announced Austria would even be open for business again by mid May, the USPGA and PGA's decision to postpone not cancel the golf looks sensible
    I’d be amazed if spectators are allowed to attend if any of those go ahead - the U.S. Open in particular. Which kind of defeats the point for the course hosting the championship as they’ll lose out on revenue.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,002
    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tim_B said:

    The Masters has been rescheduled for Nov 9 to 15.

    https://www.golfchannel.com/news/majors-gets-fall-overhaul-masters-us-open-and-pga-rescheduled

    Although the schedule is still very much a work in progress officials from Augusta National, the USGA and the PGA of America announced in a joint statement on Monday that the Masters will be played Nov. 12-15; the PGA Championship will be held Aug. 6-9 at TPC Harding Park in San Francisco, where it was originally scheduled to be played; and the U.S. Open will be relocated to Sept. 18-21 and the championship will remain at Winged Foot in Mamaroneck, N.Y.

    Totally bonkers. I’m glad the R&A have seen sense.
    Given it looks like lockdown should be over by mid June, Kurz today announced Austria would even be open for business again by mid May, the USPGA and PGA's decision to postpone not cancel the golf looks sensible
    I’d be amazed if spectators are allowed to attend if any of those go ahead - the U.S. Open in particular. Which kind of defeats the point for the course hosting the championship as they’ll lose out on revenue.
    If lockdown has ended spectators will be able to attend, marshalls maybe just stopping very big groups
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TGOHF666 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Any country which wants to relax lockdown on the basis that its own figures are under control is still going to need some draconian measures to prevent travellers from more infected countries crossing their borders and triggering the whole epidemic again. I wonder how that can work in the modern world, not least internally in the EU.

    Antibody and antigen tests, test certificates, quarantine, are going to be the new normal.
    Sounds like EU red tape - systems like that will take months to set up.

    Lockdown will lift in May.
    What does it matter what it sounds like? Why do you say EU when the EU is the world leader in the abolition of border controls - surely UK red tape would be more apposite? If it would take months to set up, then surely if it is necessary - as it is - you devote months to setting it up? Months which we have anyway because we don't yet have the tests. What country will lift its lockdown in May and why is that relevant to international travel?
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,192
    edited April 2020
    Stocky said:

    They won`t be able to prevent that. I sense that governments are coming to realise that this is all about herd immunity whilst keeping hospitals within capacity. A tricky thing to finesse.

    Sense this is right. I also sense that the "mass testing leading to immunity certificates" speculation will prove to be a unicorn. So we are looking at very high hospital admissions and deaths to be stretched out and managed (via alternating lockdowns heavy and lockdowns lite) inside ramped-up NHS capacity. This to be maintained until there is mass immunity or until a vaccine is generally available, whichever comes first. Economy and public finances utterly screwed obviously. But not to worry. There will be a Corona New Deal to the rescue, requiring intensive European, and to an extent Global, co-operation.
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,894
    Pulpstar said:

    Any country which wants to relax lockdown on the basis that its own figures are under control is still going to need some draconian measures to prevent travellers from more infected countries crossing their borders and triggering the whole epidemic again. I wonder how that can work in the modern world, not least internally in the EU.

    New Zealand and Australia seem to be able to manage it, we're an island so should be able to pull the same trick.
    Great Briatain is an island, but the UK has a land border.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,122
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tim_B said:

    The Masters has been rescheduled for Nov 9 to 15.

    https://www.golfchannel.com/news/majors-gets-fall-overhaul-masters-us-open-and-pga-rescheduled

    Although the schedule is still very much a work in progress officials from Augusta National, the USGA and the PGA of America announced in a joint statement on Monday that the Masters will be played Nov. 12-15; the PGA Championship will be held Aug. 6-9 at TPC Harding Park in San Francisco, where it was originally scheduled to be played; and the U.S. Open will be relocated to Sept. 18-21 and the championship will remain at Winged Foot in Mamaroneck, N.Y.

    Totally bonkers. I’m glad the R&A have seen sense.
    Given it looks like lockdown should be over by mid June, Kurz today announced Austria would even be open for business again by mid May, the USPGA and PGA's decision to postpone not cancel the golf looks sensible
    I’d be amazed if spectators are allowed to attend if any of those go ahead - the U.S. Open in particular. Which kind of defeats the point for the course hosting the championship as they’ll lose out on revenue.
    If lockdown has ended spectators will be able to attend, marshalls maybe just stopping very big groups
    HYUFD is in charge of these matters, Don't contradict him.
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tim_B said:

    The Masters has been rescheduled for Nov 9 to 15.

    https://www.golfchannel.com/news/majors-gets-fall-overhaul-masters-us-open-and-pga-rescheduled

    Although the schedule is still very much a work in progress officials from Augusta National, the USGA and the PGA of America announced in a joint statement on Monday that the Masters will be played Nov. 12-15; the PGA Championship will be held Aug. 6-9 at TPC Harding Park in San Francisco, where it was originally scheduled to be played; and the U.S. Open will be relocated to Sept. 18-21 and the championship will remain at Winged Foot in Mamaroneck, N.Y.

    Totally bonkers. I’m glad the R&A have seen sense.
    Given it looks like lockdown should be over by mid June, Kurz today announced Austria would even be open for business again by mid May, the USPGA and PGA's decision to postpone not cancel the golf looks sensible
    I’d be amazed if spectators are allowed to attend if any of those go ahead - the U.S. Open in particular. Which kind of defeats the point for the course hosting the championship as they’ll lose out on revenue.
    If lockdown has ended spectators will be able to attend, marshalls maybe just stopping very big groups
    Lol. "Stopping very big groups". Have you ever watched a major golf tournament?

    "Ending lockdown" isn't a binary thing. What we had before versus what we have now. We're not going back to what we had before for a long time. And that's before we even factor in numbers beginning to rise again.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,433
    edited April 2020
    Hooray, Liverpool decide they won't be applying for the furlough funds.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Any country which wants to relax lockdown on the basis that its own figures are under control is still going to need some draconian measures to prevent travellers from more infected countries crossing their borders and triggering the whole epidemic again. I wonder how that can work in the modern world, not least internally in the EU.

    New Zealand and Australia seem to be able to manage it, we're an island so should be able to pull the same trick.
    New Zealand’s response has been seriously impressive. I was in the country for a month, returning home in mid-March. Initial bewilderment, at least by residents, at what was happening elsewhere in the world changed very suddenly to the stringent measures which initially saw borders closed to non-citizens/residents, followed shortly thereafter by a lockdown similar to ours. According to my brother in Auckland it is being well observed. With current cases numbering little more than 1000 and only 1 death, they are clearly doing something right. Incidentally, it is a fabulous holiday destination whenever that becomes a possibility again.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,928
    Anyone else having times when they wonder if the virus has struck them but aren't really sure ? Felt quite tired after my wfh shift today even though I've not done anything else, other half thought she had a temperature but didn't this morning. Muchos psychoschematic ?
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,122
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    They won`t be able to prevent that. I sense that governments are coming to realise that this is all about herd immunity whilst keeping hospitals within capacity. A tricky thing to finesse.

    Sense this is right. I also sense that the "mass testing leading to immunity certificates" speculation will prove to be a unicorn. So we are looking at very high hospital admissions and deaths to be stretched out and managed (via alternating lockdowns heavy and lockdowns lite) inside ramped-up NHS capacity. This to be maintained until there is mass immunity or until a vaccine is generally available, whichever comes first. Economy and public finances utterly screwed obviously. But not to worry. There will be a Corona New Deal to the rescue, requiring intensive European, and to an extent Global, co-operation.
    But in countries that have avoided large outbreaks, there will be negligible immunity, so movement between countries will have to be carefully managed.
  • Options
    ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    rcs1000 said:

    Any country which wants to relax lockdown on the basis that its own figures are under control is still going to need some draconian measures to prevent travellers from more infected countries crossing their borders and triggering the whole epidemic again. I wonder how that can work in the modern world, not least internally in the EU.

    That's true of essentially everywhere.

    Until very recently, you could get on a plane and go pretty much anywhere with zero checks.

    That will change.

    You see it now with China. You will see it in other areas. I don't doubt that if Scotland was largely CV-19 free, and the England was not, then you would see restrictions on people crossing the border. You'll certainly see it across Schengen.

    My guess is that you'll see "two way" re-openings happen relatively quickly. If Luxembourg and Belgium both see CV-19 cases drop to near zero, then things will normalise there quite quickly.

    I suspect a much bigger issue will be places like the US. Wyoming or North Dakota - where social distancing is a natural consequence of incredibly spread out populations - will probably not bother with restrictions. Which means they'll keep low levels of CV-19 infections, well, in perpetuity.

    This means that a New York will never really be free of it either, because people will come from Wyoming on a regular basis.

    And that means travel between the US and the UK will need to be restricted.
    My question is what is the government going to do to make sure that Higher Education doesn't collapse as the number of overseas students dwindles? More than 20% of students are from overseas and, without them, many are will be in trouble. These students also tend to be in the better Universities.

    "According to 2018/2019 statistics from the Higher Education Statistics Agency, there are currently 485,645 international students pursuing their degree in the UK. The number has experienced an increase from the previous year statistics which encompassed a total of 458,520."

    https://www.studying-in-uk.org/international-student-statistics-in-uk/
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Anyone else having times when they wonder if the virus has struck them but aren't really sure ? Felt quite tired after my wfh shift today even though I've not done anything else, other half thought she had a temperature but didn't this morning. Muchos psychoschematic ?

    Quite a few times.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/392368-a-letter-from-peter-moore-to-liverpool-supporters
    We are therefore committed to finding alternative ways to operate while there are no football matches being played that ensures we are not applying for the government relief scheme.
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Johnson doesn't need to resign even if he is very sick. Raab can direct things for now without officially being PM

    Quite so.
    I'm no Raab fan but he's the correct person to be running things at the moment.
    Raab? Seriously?

    I agree that someone other than Boris should be running things, but Raab?? Gove maybe. The problem is that many of Boris's cabinet are so uninspiring. Truss, Patel, Shapps ....
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,122
    Pulpstar said:

    Anyone else having times when they wonder if the virus has struck them but aren't really sure ? Felt quite tired after my wfh shift today even though I've not done anything else, other half thought she had a temperature but didn't this morning. Muchos psychoschematic ?

    I'm not sure anyone I've spoken to (myself included) hasn't wondered whether that cough (or whatever) might have been a mild case of coronavirus.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,002
    edited April 2020
    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tim_B said:

    The Masters has been rescheduled for Nov 9 to 15.

    https://www.golfchannel.com/news/majors-gets-fall-overhaul-masters-us-open-and-pga-rescheduled

    Although the schedule is still very much a work in progress officials from Augusta National, the USGA and the PGA of America announced in a joint statement on Monday that the Masters will be played Nov. 12-15; the PGA Championship will be held Aug. 6-9 at TPC Harding Park in San Francisco, where it was originally scheduled to be played; and the U.S. Open will be relocated to Sept. 18-21 and the championship will remain at Winged Foot in Mamaroneck, N.Y.

    Totally bonkers. I’m glad the R&A have seen sense.
    Given it looks like lockdown should be over by mid June, Kurz today announced Austria would even be open for business again by mid May, the USPGA and PGA's decision to postpone not cancel the golf looks sensible
    I’d be amazed if spectators are allowed to attend if any of those go ahead - the U.S. Open in particular. Which kind of defeats the point for the course hosting the championship as they’ll lose out on revenue.
    If lockdown has ended spectators will be able to attend, marshalls maybe just stopping very big groups
    Lol. "Stopping very big groups". Have you ever watched a major golf tournament?

    "Ending lockdown" isn't a binary thing. What we had before versus what we have now. We're not going back to what we had before for a long time. And that's before we even factor in numbers beginning to rise again.
    Nothing in the US PGA statement said spectators would be banned and if legally a lockdown is no longer in force there is nothing to stop spectators attending
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    Hooray, Liverpool decide they won't be applying for the furlough funds.

    Only after being castigated for doing it.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tim_B said:

    The Masters has been rescheduled for Nov 9 to 15.

    https://www.golfchannel.com/news/majors-gets-fall-overhaul-masters-us-open-and-pga-rescheduled

    Although the schedule is still very much a work in progress officials from Augusta National, the USGA and the PGA of America announced in a joint statement on Monday that the Masters will be played Nov. 12-15; the PGA Championship will be held Aug. 6-9 at TPC Harding Park in San Francisco, where it was originally scheduled to be played; and the U.S. Open will be relocated to Sept. 18-21 and the championship will remain at Winged Foot in Mamaroneck, N.Y.

    Totally bonkers. I’m glad the R&A have seen sense.
    Given it looks like lockdown should be over by mid June, Kurz today announced Austria would even be open for business again by mid May, the USPGA and PGA's decision to postpone not cancel the golf looks sensible
    I’d be amazed if spectators are allowed to attend if any of those go ahead - the U.S. Open in particular. Which kind of defeats the point for the course hosting the championship as they’ll lose out on revenue.
    If lockdown has ended spectators will be able to attend, marshalls maybe just stopping very big groups
    Lol. "Stopping very big groups". Have you ever watched a major golf tournament?

    "Ending lockdown" isn't a binary thing. What we had before versus what we have now. We're not going back to what we had before for a long time. And that's before we even factor in numbers beginning to rise again.
    Nothing in the US PGA statement said spectators would be banned and if legally a lockdown is no longer in force there is nothing to stop spectators attending
    Apart from the US PGA saying they aren't allowed? ;)
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    42% of Brits are morons it seems then.
  • Options
    ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tim_B said:

    The Masters has been rescheduled for Nov 9 to 15.

    https://www.golfchannel.com/news/majors-gets-fall-overhaul-masters-us-open-and-pga-rescheduled

    Although the schedule is still very much a work in progress officials from Augusta National, the USGA and the PGA of America announced in a joint statement on Monday that the Masters will be played Nov. 12-15; the PGA Championship will be held Aug. 6-9 at TPC Harding Park in San Francisco, where it was originally scheduled to be played; and the U.S. Open will be relocated to Sept. 18-21 and the championship will remain at Winged Foot in Mamaroneck, N.Y.

    Totally bonkers. I’m glad the R&A have seen sense.
    Given it looks like lockdown should be over by mid June, Kurz today announced Austria would even be open for business again by mid May, the USPGA and PGA's decision to postpone not cancel the golf looks sensible
    Kurz said, "at least late June" for events where people congregate. For the UK, that's going to be weeks later and, for the US, well God help those attending in August at least, because it would be in very unsafe conditions.
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    Hooray, Liverpool decide they won't be applying for the furlough funds.

    Only after being castigated for doing it.
    They are the only one's who have reversed the decision.

    The Spurs decision was galling because Levy was paid £7 million, FSG haven't taken a salary or a penny out of the club*. That's a proud achievement for a decade of ownership.

    *Well apart from the repayment of the Main Stand loan.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    Pulpstar said:

    Anyone else having times when they wonder if the virus has struck them but aren't really sure ? Felt quite tired after my wfh shift today even though I've not done anything else, other half thought she had a temperature but didn't this morning. Muchos psychoschematic ?

    Quite a few times.
    Me too. Every time I cough or my body temp feels awry I head for the thermometer.

    Sigh.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,192
    Chris said:

    But in countries that have avoided large outbreaks, there will be negligible immunity, so movement between countries will have to be carefully managed.

    Yes. Any country which aims to keep the virus largely suppressed until there's a vaccine may have to virtually close its borders.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    tlg86 said:

    Hooray, Liverpool decide they won't be applying for the furlough funds.

    Only after being castigated for doing it.
    They are the only one's who have reversed the decision.

    The Spurs decision was galling because Levy was paid £7 million, FSG haven't taken a salary or a penny out of the club*. That's a proud achievement for a decade of ownership.

    *Well apart from the repayment of the Main Stand loan.
    The point is we know that Daniel Levy and Mike Ashley are scumbags. Liverpool are the holy than thou club.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,965
    TGOHF666 said:
    Thought it was up to the Lander which restrictions are in place and which not. They locked down at different times and have different advice.
    Incidentally my friend rhwrehas been diagnosed with bronchitis. Discovered they had unknowingly had contact with someone from N Italy. Called GP at 5pm to inform them. Test arranged for tomorrow morning.
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/392368-a-letter-from-peter-moore-to-liverpool-supporters
    We are therefore committed to finding alternative ways to operate while there are no football matches being played that ensures we are not applying for the government relief scheme.

    Better late than never
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,002
    edited April 2020
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tim_B said:

    The Masters has been rescheduled for Nov 9 to 15.

    https://www.golfchannel.com/news/majors-gets-fall-overhaul-masters-us-open-and-pga-rescheduled

    Although the schedule is still very much a work in progress officials from Augusta National, the USGA and the PGA of America announced in a joint statement on Monday that the Masters will be played Nov. 12-15; the PGA Championship will be held Aug. 6-9 at TPC Harding Park in San Francisco, where it was originally scheduled to be played; and the U.S. Open will be relocated to Sept. 18-21 and the championship will remain at Winged Foot in Mamaroneck, N.Y.

    Totally bonkers. I’m glad the R&A have seen sense.
    Given it looks like lockdown should be over by mid June, Kurz today announced Austria would even be open for business again by mid May, the USPGA and PGA's decision to postpone not cancel the golf looks sensible
    I’d be amazed if spectators are allowed to attend if any of those go ahead - the U.S. Open in particular. Which kind of defeats the point for the course hosting the championship as they’ll lose out on revenue.
    If lockdown has ended spectators will be able to attend, marshalls maybe just stopping very big groups
    Lol. "Stopping very big groups". Have you ever watched a major golf tournament?

    "Ending lockdown" isn't a binary thing. What we had before versus what we have now. We're not going back to what we had before for a long time. And that's before we even factor in numbers beginning to rise again.
    Nothing in the US PGA statement said spectators would be banned and if legally a lockdown is no longer in force there is nothing to stop spectators attending
    Apart from the US PGA saying they aren't allowed? ;)
    No mention of that here https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/articles/2020/04/u-s--open-postponed-to-september--2020-senior-opens-canceled.html
    Or here
    https://www.pgachampionship.com/2020newdate
  • Options
    Chris said:

    Stocky said:

    Any country which wants to relax lockdown on the basis that its own figures are under control is still going to need some draconian measures to prevent travellers from more infected countries crossing their borders and triggering the whole epidemic again. I wonder how that can work in the modern world, not least internally in the EU.

    They won`t be able to prevent that. I sense that governments are coming to realise that this is all about herd immunity whilst keeping hospitals within capacity. A tricky thing to finesse.
    German deaths are an order of magnitude below Italian and Spanish deaths. Italy, Spain, France and the UK may acquire a degree of herd immunity, but Germany isn't on course to do that.
    What exactly do fatalities have to do with immunity? Deceased=Immune?

    It's about infected+recovered. Germany has identified 100k cases. Most will survive and recover. UK has identified 50k so far. By that logic we're closer to herd immunity, but what really counts is, of course, the true number of cases. This can only be roughly estimated once antibody testing shows the number of infected+recovered cases.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,282
    rcs1000 said:

    Any country which wants to relax lockdown on the basis that its own figures are under control is still going to need some draconian measures to prevent travellers from more infected countries crossing their borders and triggering the whole epidemic again. I wonder how that can work in the modern world, not least internally in the EU.

    That's true of essentially everywhere.

    Until very recently, you could get on a plane and go pretty much anywhere with zero checks.

    That will change.

    You see it now with China. You will see it in other areas. I don't doubt that if Scotland was largely CV-19 free, and the England was not, then you would see restrictions on people crossing the border. You'll certainly see it across Schengen.

    My guess is that you'll see "two way" re-openings happen relatively quickly. If Luxembourg and Belgium both see CV-19 cases drop to near zero, then things will normalise there quite quickly.

    I suspect a much bigger issue will be places like the US. Wyoming or North Dakota - where social distancing is a natural consequence of incredibly spread out populations - will probably not bother with restrictions. Which means they'll keep low levels of CV-19 infections, well, in perpetuity.

    This means that a New York will never really be free of it either, because people will come from Wyoming on a regular basis.

    And that means travel between the US and the UK will need to be restricted.
    Or we get a vaccine and people stop worrying about it until the next pandemic comes along.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    Tim_B said:

    The Masters has been rescheduled for Nov 9 to 15.

    https://www.golfchannel.com/news/majors-gets-fall-overhaul-masters-us-open-and-pga-rescheduled

    Although the schedule is still very much a work in progress officials from Augusta National, the USGA and the PGA of America announced in a joint statement on Monday that the Masters will be played Nov. 12-15; the PGA Championship will be held Aug. 6-9 at TPC Harding Park in San Francisco, where it was originally scheduled to be played; and the U.S. Open will be relocated to Sept. 18-21 and the championship will remain at Winged Foot in Mamaroneck, N.Y.

    Totally bonkers. I’m glad the R&A have seen sense.
    Given it looks like lockdown should be over by mid June, Kurz today announced Austria would even be open for business again by mid May, the USPGA and PGA's decision to postpone not cancel the golf looks sensible
    I’d be amazed if spectators are allowed to attend if any of those go ahead - the U.S. Open in particular. Which kind of defeats the point for the course hosting the championship as they’ll lose out on revenue.
    If lockdown has ended spectators will be able to attend, marshalls maybe just stopping very big groups
    Lol. "Stopping very big groups". Have you ever watched a major golf tournament?

    "Ending lockdown" isn't a binary thing. What we had before versus what we have now. We're not going back to what we had before for a long time. And that's before we even factor in numbers beginning to rise again.
    Nothing in the US PGA statement said spectators would be banned and if legally a lockdown is no longer in force there is nothing to stop spectators attending
    Apart from the US PGA saying they aren't allowed? ;)
    No mention of that here https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/articles/2020/04/u-s--open-postponed-to-september--2020-senior-opens-canceled.html
    Or here
    https://www.pgachampionship.com/2020newdate
    Ever heard of the saying... "circumstances might change"?
  • Options
    dixiedean said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Thought it was up to the Lander which restrictions are in place and which not. They locked down at different times and have different advice.
    Incidentally my friend rhwrehas been diagnosed with bronchitis. Discovered they had unknowingly had contact with someone from N Italy. Called GP at 5pm to inform them. Test arranged for tomorrow morning.
    McCaffrey is reporting plans being drawn up. I guess many countries will be drawing up plans right now. When and how these plans will be set into action is a different question.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Pulpstar said:

    Anyone else having times when they wonder if the virus has struck them but aren't really sure ? Felt quite tired after my wfh shift today even though I've not done anything else, other half thought she had a temperature but didn't this morning. Muchos psychoschematic ?

    Quite a few times.
    Me too. Every time I cough or my body temp feels awry I head for the thermometer.

    Sigh.
    I'm surprised you haven't set something up so the thermometer is giving you an automatic reading every 15 minutes.
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Hooray, Liverpool decide they won't be applying for the furlough funds.

    Only after being castigated for doing it.
    They are the only one's who have reversed the decision.

    The Spurs decision was galling because Levy was paid £7 million, FSG haven't taken a salary or a penny out of the club*. That's a proud achievement for a decade of ownership.

    *Well apart from the repayment of the Main Stand loan.
    The point is we know that Daniel Levy and Mike Ashley are scumbags. Liverpool are the holy than thou club.
    Nah, we're the club other fans mock for being poor, you know the ones that sing 'sign on' or 'feed the Scousers.'
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,595
    IshmaelZ said:

    Can you actually physically speak if on a ventilator?

    No.
    You can’t do anything at all.
This discussion has been closed.