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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » That Boris could be so afflicted brings home in a powerful way

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited April 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » That Boris could be so afflicted brings home in a powerful way why the shutdown is necessary

That the man who just four months ago led the Conservatives to their biggest General Election Victory in decades should now be in intensive care with the coronavirus brings home the sheer magnitude of what the world is facing and why governments are going to extraordinary lengths to try to impede it. This is a killer and at the moment there’s no way of of stopping it.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,631
    first woohoo
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Second. Get well soon, Boris!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,631
    An obesrvation on why britsh politics is do, merely an opinion
    You have the left wing who are honestly convinved their policies would make the county better
    You have the right wing who honeslty think there policiess would make the country better
    You have the selfish tw@t wing who will vote for whichever party most benefits them and their familes

    sadly I think the bigged proportion of the electorate is the third
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    Can't sleep.

    What a terrible demoralising day it was yesterday. When an enemy wants to knock the fight out of an opponent it tries to take out the leader, so now this virus tries to do exactly that.

    It's as if it is sentient (yes, crazy, I know).

    At least we'd been able to rely on an optimistic 'can do' attitude from the PM in these difficult times but how can the likes of Raab, Whitty and team keep that up now, when that has been so comprehensively shattered? I fear for what will happen to the country if the virus completes the job. Can the centre hold when the terrible reality is so front and centre?

    On top of that, at regular intervals I hear/read of people who seem as though they would quite happily sacrifice me as collateral damage. I don't know how much more depressing it can get. Same age as Boris, similarly lacking in current fitness, maybe a bit less healthy, in fact. Is my generation just the cannon fodder of this war? It honestly seems that way, to me. Not old enough to be shielded, not young enough to be able to survive it, physically compromised but not compromised enough, economically useful as long as not too many of us make the ultimate sacrifice.

    Back to bed.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Even my bloody dog can't sleep.....

    I hear you, ukpaul. I wouldn't want to have battle this thing. Still not fully recovered from a chest infection picked up in December. Taken me from a devil-may-care guy to someone who is utterly paranoid that today's delivery of post is trying to kill me....
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Me too. A fitful 5 hour sleep of virus-filled dreams.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    ukpaul said:

    Can't sleep.

    What a terrible demoralising day it was yesterday. When an enemy wants to knock the fight out of an opponent it tries to take out the leader, so now this virus tries to do exactly that.

    It's as if it is sentient (yes, crazy, I know).

    Yep I agree. It almost seems sentient. Or some cruel hand of Fate.

    The other thing that 'almost' feels true is that if you start mocking this thing or taking it too lightly it comes knocking on your door.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    ukpaul said:

    Can't sleep.

    Can the centre hold

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

    The darkness drops again but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2020
    One thing that has worried me for some time is that Boris is very overweight: clinically obese with a BMI somewhere around 33 by most reckoning. That seems to be a factor in mortality, especially as he doesn't regularly exercise. I'm guessing he drinks a lot - well not just guessing. I heard somewhere that he has quite high blood pressure. That doesn't help either.

    According to the Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre the survival chance of a man his age is 54% without the aforementioned points.

    So if any of that is accurate, and I don't know for certain that it is, it indicates just how grim this is and that those headlines suggesting that Boris is 'fighting for his life' are about right.

    This is all pretty devastating news. And many of us have a creeping sense of dread.

    Get well Boris. Pull through. We are all rooting for you.


    (Source for some of the above is today's D. Telegraph)
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    If we’re doing poets, this seems appropriate for now:

    No man is an island,
    entire of itself;
    every man is a piece of the continent,
    a part of the main.
    If a clod be washed away by the sea,
    Europe is the less,
    as well as if a promontory were.
    as well as if a manor of thy friend’s
    or of thine own were.
    Any man’s death diminishes me,
    because I am involved in mankind;
    and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
    it tolls for thee.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Wonderful poem, Alastair. One of my favourites.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks. That way we can minimise the stress on the health service and hopefully reach the point where lockdown can start to be eased that much sooner.

    I think that Mike's also right that it will help to ensure that we don't relax measures too soon (albeit that we must do so eventually.) Though FWIW I've thought pretty much since the lockdown started that nothing would change when the data are reviewed at Easter. This is when the Government's learned advisers seem to expect the peak of deaths to occur. That's hardly the moment to start doing things differently; we might possibly see movement at the end of April/start of May if there are real signs of progress by then.

    Meanwhile, we can all read the numbers that have already been published in relation to the mortality rate amongst people who end up in intensive care with this illness. We just have to hope that the odds fall in the Prime Minister's favour.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2020

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083
    On the point in the lead about his cycling and by inference his fitness, the Daily Mail article linked from last thread suggested that the jogging and cycling fitness regime he used to follow is now a thing of the past.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    IanB2 said:

    On the point in the lead about his cycling and by inference his fitness, the Daily Mail article linked from last thread suggested that the jogging and cycling fitness regime he used to follow is now a thing of the past.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1247403701662334981
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Good morning, everyone.

    Was saddened to hear that the PM has been moved to intensive care. Hope that he makes a full recovery.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    IanB2 said:

    On the point in the lead about his cycling and by inference his fitness, the Daily Mail article linked from last thread suggested that the jogging and cycling fitness regime he used to follow is now a thing of the past.

    Yes the idea that he is very fit appears to be nonsense, unfortunately. He may very strong but that's not the same thing.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083
    Today looks likely to be the day when the case numbers for New York overtake those for Italy, and maybe also for Spain.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Just completely untrue. It does the opposite with me. It reminds me that everything outside my door, and indeed everything that comes through, is a potential virus vector.

    I never touch my mask and I carry anti-bacterials everywhere.

    We are hopelessly behind the curve on this. They are absolutely 100%, clearly, a preventative for viral spreading, both from those who have it and those who don't. All Asian countries have known this for years but we are pathetically clinging to the last vestiges of 'we know best.' We don't.

    Far far far more important than a message to stay indoors should be, 'wear a bloody mask.'
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083

    IanB2 said:

    On the point in the lead about his cycling and by inference his fitness, the Daily Mail article linked from last thread suggested that the jogging and cycling fitness regime he used to follow is now a thing of the past.

    Yes the idea that he is very fit appears to be nonsense, unfortunately. He may very strong but that's not the same thing.
    I have noticed with others that a drawback of being a fitness enthusiast in middle age is that if ever you give it up everything tends to go pow.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2020
    Mind you, I've got a good mask: military grade filters which are washable and my mask itself goes through the washing machine after every significant trip outside. When I'm wearing it to decontaminate goods coming into the property I spray it down both sides afterwards with anti-bacterial.

    I still might catch the bloody virus, mind :(
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    I feel that wearing a mask is also likely to make people less careful about social distancing.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    On the point in the lead about his cycling and by inference his fitness, the Daily Mail article linked from last thread suggested that the jogging and cycling fitness regime he used to follow is now a thing of the past.

    Yes the idea that he is very fit appears to be nonsense, unfortunately. He may very strong but that's not the same thing.
    I have noticed with others that a drawback of being a fitness enthusiast in middle age is that if ever you give it up everything tends to go pow.
    Very true!!!!
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Extraordinary story on Sky News, suggesting that care homes are being asked to take in elderly coronavirus patients thus, effectively, sacrificing the elderly. I'm not sure if this is misreporting but this can't be true surely?

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-sacrificing-the-elderly-care-homes-asked-to-take-covid-19-patients-11969661
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Just completely untrue. It does the opposite with me. It reminds me that everything outside my door, and indeed everything that comes through, is a potential virus vector.

    I never touch my mask and I carry anti-bacterials everywhere.

    We are hopelessly behind the curve on this. They are absolutely 100%, clearly, a preventative for viral spreading, both from those who have it and those who don't. All Asian countries have known this for years but we are pathetically clinging to the last vestiges of 'we know best.' We don't.

    Far far far more important than a message to stay indoors should be, 'wear a bloody mask.'
    “Completely untrue” implies that it is a matter of fact. Whereas in reality it is a matter of opinion, and there don’t appear to have been any studies on the matter. The infection rates amongst hospital staff - who are trained and helped by each other to wear PPE properly - proves that even in those circumstances it is far from failsafe.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Gadfly said:

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    I feel that wearing a mask is also likely to make people less careful about social distancing.
    Nope.

    Makes me even more careful. It reminds you what this is all about.

    The cavalier people I see on social distancing are always the ones who aren't wearing masks.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083

    Extraordinary story on Sky News, suggesting that care homes are being asked to take in elderly coronavirus patients thus, effectively, sacrificing the elderly. I'm not sure if this is misreporting but this can't be true surely?

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-sacrificing-the-elderly-care-homes-asked-to-take-covid-19-patients-11969661

    Crappy journalism to turn the absence of a test requirement into a suggestion that they would be asked to take known positive test patients.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083

    Gadfly said:

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    I feel that wearing a mask is also likely to make people less careful about social distancing.
    Nope.

    Makes me even more careful. It reminds you what this is all about.

    The cavalier people I see on social distancing are always the ones who aren't wearing masks.
    Has it ever occurred to you that not everyone behaves the same?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,454
    Gadfly said:

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    I feel that wearing a mask is also likely to make people less careful about social distancing.
    This! When walking round London 10-15% of people are wearing masks. Half the people who get too close to you without a care are wearing masks!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    On the point in the lead about his cycling and by inference his fitness, the Daily Mail article linked from last thread suggested that the jogging and cycling fitness regime he used to follow is now a thing of the past.

    Yes the idea that he is very fit appears to be nonsense, unfortunately. He may very strong but that's not the same thing.
    I have noticed with others that a drawback of being a fitness enthusiast in middle age is that if ever you give it up everything tends to go pow.
    Morning everyone. Giving up work was what triggered health problems for me.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    Pulpstar said:

    He's very ill.

    That's the point.

    He was very ill yesterday, when the message was "working from his hospital bed"

    Spin is not helpful at this point
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,454

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Just completely untrue. It does the opposite with me. It reminds me that everything outside my door, and indeed everything that comes through, is a potential virus vector.

    I never touch my mask and I carry anti-bacterials everywhere.

    We are hopelessly behind the curve on this. They are absolutely 100%, clearly, a preventative for viral spreading, both from those who have it and those who don't. All Asian countries have known this for years but we are pathetically clinging to the last vestiges of 'we know best.' We don't.

    Far far far more important than a message to stay indoors should be, 'wear a bloody mask.'
    Absolute nonsense, for a balanced article on masks:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/science-has-no-clear-answers-on-the-coronavirus-face-masks-are-no-exception/
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Just completely untrue. It does the opposite with me. It reminds me that everything outside my door, and indeed everything that comes through, is a potential virus vector.

    I never touch my mask and I carry anti-bacterials everywhere.

    We are hopelessly behind the curve on this. They are absolutely 100%, clearly, a preventative for viral spreading, both from those who have it and those who don't. All Asian countries have known this for years but we are pathetically clinging to the last vestiges of 'we know best.' We don't.

    Far far far more important than a message to stay indoors should be, 'wear a bloody mask.'
    “Completely untrue” implies that it is a matter of fact. Whereas in reality it is a matter of opinion, and there don’t appear to have been any studies on the matter. The infection rates amongst hospital staff - who are trained and helped by each other to wear PPE properly - proves that even in those circumstances it is far from failsafe.
    Well obviously it's not failsafe. You also need to use your brain and be hygienic.

    It's a cultural blockage and somewhat arrogant. Brits recoil from them because it's what foreigners have done for years. Just as Boris took a cavalier and, frankly, slapdash approach to his own safety and those around him, so we continue to believe that this virus won't spread to us when we're walking past people or chatting to them.

    Things are changing though. I saw 50% of people wearing masks yesterday when I was out in town and that did surprise and encourage me. The trouble is, it's far too late.

    WEARING A MASK SAVES LIVES

    That should be the main message not telling people they can't sunbathe.

    The other big subtext behind this is that there aren't enough quality masks to go around. Which is pretty scandalous.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083
    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    He's very ill.

    That's the point.

    He was very ill yesterday, when the message was "working from his hospital bed"

    Spin is not helpful at this point
    Journalists spotted that the ‘Raab last spoke to him on Saturday’ revelation blew a hole in all of their claims he was running the country from his bed.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Gadfly said:

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    I feel that wearing a mask is also likely to make people less careful about social distancing.
    This! When walking round London 10-15% of people are wearing masks. Half the people who get too close to you without a care are wearing masks!
    Well I’m going to be wearing a mak for the first time this morning when I go to the hospital, I don’t know but I would guess they would Give you a mask and make you wear one if you didn’t have one.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Just completely untrue. It does the opposite with me. It reminds me that everything outside my door, and indeed everything that comes through, is a potential virus vector.

    I never touch my mask and I carry anti-bacterials everywhere.

    We are hopelessly behind the curve on this. They are absolutely 100%, clearly, a preventative for viral spreading, both from those who have it and those who don't. All Asian countries have known this for years but we are pathetically clinging to the last vestiges of 'we know best.' We don't.

    Far far far more important than a message to stay indoors should be, 'wear a bloody mask.'
    Absolute nonsense
    /
    With respect I have been completely right about this virus all the way along, from the very start, and I'm right about masks. Everyone is falling into line. You will too. Eventually, though, in your case by the looks of it.

    I've been hot onto this for years but that's probably because I spent 10 years living and working in Asia.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited April 2020

    One thing that has worried me for some time is that Boris is very overweight: clinically obese with a BMI somewhere around 33 by most reckoning. That seems to be a factor in mortality, especially as he doesn't regularly exercise. I'm guessing he drinks a lot - well not just guessing. I heard somewhere that he has quite high blood pressure. That doesn't help either.

    According to the Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre the survival chance of a man his age is 54% without the aforementioned points.

    So if any of that is accurate, and I don't know for certain that it is, it indicates just how grim this is and that those headlines suggesting that Boris is 'fighting for his life' are about right.

    This is all pretty devastating news. And many of us have a creeping sense of dread.

    Get well Boris. Pull through. We are all rooting for you.


    (Source for some of the above is today's D. Telegraph)

    Dr Foxy posted a very good link last week to critical care outcomes in England. The table showed that BMI is a huge determinant of whether you ever come out of intensive care. The clinically obese (BMI over 30) are much more likely to succumb. Oddly, the overweight (BMI 25-30) were slightly more likely to survive than normal-weight or underweight individuals.

    The PM almost certainly has a BMI over 30. Perhaps over 35. Not good.

    And according to the medical stats expert on BBC Radio Scotland an hour ago, males in their 50s are 3 times (three times) more likely to die than females in their 50s. Not at all good.

    Heavy alcohol consumption makes you a sitting duck for a vast range of diseases and afflictions, including Covid19.

    I’m a bit younger than the PM and have a lower BMI. I assume I drink less alcohol than him too. And I’m scared. Every man over 40 with a poor track-record at the gym should be scared shitless.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    I agree about the 1950-style hoodwinking attempts by No.10. It has had the opposite effect from what they intended but I'm afraid it has been Boris' way of life: spin and bluster and obfuscation and downright lies.

    That doesn't mean I don't now wish him well. I am desperately hoping he pulls through. If he does I suspect he may be a changed man.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    My biggest gripe with personal space are runners. They seem to come charging up far too close and, of course, panting volumes of breath into one's vicinity.
  • Very worrying about Boris indeed. Mike is quite right to accept offers of help and remain at home. I am in day 17 of lockdown with neighbours down my drive doing my grocery shopping. The 62 year old nephew of my cousin's partner died in London on Thursday having been on a ventilator for 2 weeks. He was hitherto a healthy man. Anyone who still thinks this pandemic is like seasonal flu is in fantasy land. On last night's news programme when I heard the tell tale sound of a working ventilator in the background, my own experience in HD/IT care almost exactly 5 years ago came flooding back. Stay safe everyone.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    Please: spare us the poetry.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    One thing that has worried me for some time is that Boris is very overweight: clinically obese with a BMI somewhere around 33 by most reckoning. That seems to be a factor in mortality, especially as he doesn't regularly exercise. I'm guessing he drinks a lot - well not just guessing. I heard somewhere that he has quite high blood pressure. That doesn't help either.

    According to the Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre the survival chance of a man his age is 54% without the aforementioned points.

    So if any of that is accurate, and I don't know for certain that it is, it indicates just how grim this is and that those headlines suggesting that Boris is 'fighting for his life' are about right.

    This is all pretty devastating news. And many of us have a creeping sense of dread.

    Get well Boris. Pull through. We are all rooting for you.


    (Source for some of the above is today's D. Telegraph)

    Dr Foxy posted a very good link last week to critical care outcomes in England. The table showed that BMI is a huge determinant of whether you ever come out of intensive care. The clinically obese (BMI over 30) are much more likely to succumb. Oddly, the overweight (BMI 25-30) were slightly more likely to survive than normal-weight or underweight individuals.

    The PM almost certainly has a BMI over 30. Perhaps over 35. Not good.

    And according to the medical stats expert on BBC Radio Scotland an hour ago, males in their 50s are 3 times (three times) more likely to die than females in their 50s. Not at all good.

    Heavy alcohol consumption makes you a sitting duck for a vast range of diseases and afflictions, including Covid19.

    I’m a bit younger than the PM and have a lower BMI. I assume I drink less alcohol than him too. And I’m scared. Every man over 40 with a poor track-record at the gym should be scared shitless.
    Really interesting Stuart. That point about a little bit of weight, but not too much, is fascinating. I wonder if it will continue to bear out. Maybe it's partly to do with the weight loss? Hancock said he lost half a stone in 2 days.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Just completely untrue. It does the opposite with me. It reminds me that everything outside my door, and indeed everything that comes through, is a potential virus vector.

    I never touch my mask and I carry anti-bacterials everywhere.

    We are hopelessly behind the curve on this. They are absolutely 100%, clearly, a preventative for viral spreading, both from those who have it and those who don't. All Asian countries have known this for years but we are pathetically clinging to the last vestiges of 'we know best.' We don't.

    Far far far more important than a message to stay indoors should be, 'wear a bloody mask.'
    Absolute nonsense
    /
    With respect I have been completely right about this virus all the way along, from the very start, and I'm right about masks. Everyone is falling into line. You will too. Eventually, though, in your case by the looks of it.

    I've been hot onto this for years but that's probably because I spent 10 years living and working in Asia.
    It's interesting as to why you and @eadric are so obsessed with being right.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    https://lanoticia.digital/amp/espana/como-sera-verano-espana-expertos-coronavirus-responden?gran&fbclid=IwAR3zJlHY2UDWl0clB8KI6yY2TkCDVK_OEDsAWcnxQUlKMa6eIehA8rYpyZA

    Interesting Spanish article on the slow stages back to 'normality' after the peak and subsequent decline of the virus. The gist is: very slow return with continues isolation for all risk groups well into the summer and beyond. Slow return to work, even slower re-opening of tourist centres, bars, restaurants , etc. In short no return to normality much beyond getting more people back to work who can do so relatively safely. Remember, the UK is signficantly further back down the road than Spain and Italy.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    Scott_xP said:
    Can we?

    IMHO it was probably a good thing no-one knew about Churchill's heart attack during the nadir of WW2.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2020

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Just completely untrue. It does the opposite with me. It reminds me that everything outside my door, and indeed everything that comes through, is a potential virus vector.

    I never touch my mask and I carry anti-bacterials everywhere.

    We are hopelessly behind the curve on this. They are absolutely 100%, clearly, a preventative for viral spreading, both from those who have it and those who don't. All Asian countries have known this for years but we are pathetically clinging to the last vestiges of 'we know best.' We don't.

    Far far far more important than a message to stay indoors should be, 'wear a bloody mask.'
    Absolute nonsense
    /
    With respect I have been completely right about this virus all the way along, from the very start, and I'm right about masks. Everyone is falling into line. You will too. Eventually, though, in your case by the looks of it.

    I've been hot onto this for years but that's probably because I spent 10 years living and working in Asia.
    It's interesting as to why you and @eadric are so obsessed with being right.
    Visionaries find idiots frustrating.

    Just being honest.

    I was on a leadership team a while back and we all took the usual temperament tests, Myers-Briggs and all that (cue someone to post an article by Nate Silver explaining why they are unreliable).

    It was actually really useful to see that us strongly N types (Intuitives) do need the 'Computer-says-Nooooooo' types to keep us in check.

    Visionaries like me can be a pain in the arse.

    Even though we're right.

    :smiley:
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    My biggest gripe with personal space are runners. They seem to come charging up far too close and, of course, panting volumes of breath into one's vicinity.

    Lol not me. I crossed the road to avoid a cyclist on the road whilst I was on the pavement
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    On the point in the lead about his cycling and by inference his fitness, the Daily Mail article linked from last thread suggested that the jogging and cycling fitness regime he used to follow is now a thing of the past.

    Yes the idea that he is very fit appears to be nonsense, unfortunately. He may very strong but that's not the same thing.
    I have noticed with others that a drawback of being a fitness enthusiast in middle age is that if ever you give it up everything tends to go pow.
    So I'm ok, having never started.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    I agree about the 1950-style hoodwinking attempts by No.10. It has had the opposite effect from what they intended but I'm afraid it has been Boris' way of life: spin and bluster and obfuscation and downright lies.

    That doesn't mean I don't now wish him well. I am desperately hoping he pulls through. If he does I suspect he may be a changed man.

    Almost certainly. If he survives this, it may well be his epiphany.

    I know that my year of cancer (two years if you include the pre-diagnosis decline, which is easy to see in hindsight but miss in reality) changed me beyond all recognition. Both physically and my personality. Entirely for the better.

    I’ll never forget those doctors and nurses. I can see their faces and their mannerisms just as clearly as cherished childhood friends
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    edited April 2020
    Intersting to note that after a small intitial blip the £ is stable today - for me a better sign than the endless speculation and spin of the media whose understanding is again being exposed so badly in their efforts to fill time. Beyond a single news update each day we'd all be more usefully employed with our favourite books/box sets/cartoons/exercise, etc. Oh and yes not to forget PB!
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009

    My biggest gripe with personal space are runners. They seem to come charging up far too close and, of course, panting volumes of breath into one's vicinity.

    Yes - they are more frightened of slackening their pace or deviating from their course than of anything.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Agreed, unless you are unwell yourself - but then you shouldn't really be going out.

    There's also something socially distancing and upsetting about them - just like Balaclavas, burquas and the like.

    I don't think covering your face is a good thing.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited April 2020

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Just completely untrue. It does the opposite with me. It reminds me that everything outside my door, and indeed everything that comes through, is a potential virus vector.

    I never touch my mask and I carry anti-bacterials everywhere.

    We are hopelessly behind the curve on this. They are absolutely 100%, clearly, a preventative for viral spreading, both from those who have it and those who don't. All Asian countries have known this for years but we are pathetically clinging to the last vestiges of 'we know best.' We don't.

    Far far far more important than a message to stay indoors should be, 'wear a bloody mask.'
    Absolute nonsense
    /
    With respect I have been completely right about this virus all the way along, from the very start, and I'm right about masks. Everyone is falling into line. You will too. Eventually, though, in your case by the looks of it.

    I've been hot onto this for years but that's probably because I spent 10 years living and working in Asia.
    Ahem. When I drew attention to the risk, you described me as having turned into a cross between Eeyore and Private Fraser.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Just completely untrue. It does the opposite with me. It reminds me that everything outside my door, and indeed everything that comes through, is a potential virus vector.

    I never touch my mask and I carry anti-bacterials everywhere.

    We are hopelessly behind the curve on this. They are absolutely 100%, clearly, a preventative for viral spreading, both from those who have it and those who don't. All Asian countries have known this for years but we are pathetically clinging to the last vestiges of 'we know best.' We don't.

    Far far far more important than a message to stay indoors should be, 'wear a bloody mask.'
    Absolute nonsense
    /
    With respect I have been completely right about this virus all the way along, from the very start, and I'm right about masks. Everyone is falling into line. You will too. Eventually, though, in your case by the looks of it.

    I've been hot onto this for years but that's probably because I spent 10 years living and working in Asia.
    It's interesting as to why you and @eadric are so obsessed with being right.
    Visionaries find idiots frustrating.

    Just being honest.
    Fake visionaries should be the first against the wall ;)

    I suspect the ‘truth’ may be that masks, with the same mask used repeatedly by the average untrained amateur, provide a small net disbenefit to the wearer but a net benefit to everyone else. Therefore you want to be in a world where everyone wears them.

    That’s the real reason that wearers get so agitated about it.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846

    One thing that has worried me for some time is that Boris is very overweight: clinically obese with a BMI somewhere around 33 by most reckoning. That seems to be a factor in mortality, especially as he doesn't regularly exercise. I'm guessing he drinks a lot - well not just guessing. I heard somewhere that he has quite high blood pressure. That doesn't help either.

    According to the Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre the survival chance of a man his age is 54% without the aforementioned points.

    So if any of that is accurate, and I don't know for certain that it is, it indicates just how grim this is and that those headlines suggesting that Boris is 'fighting for his life' are about right.

    This is all pretty devastating news. And many of us have a creeping sense of dread.

    Get well Boris. Pull through. We are all rooting for you.


    (Source for some of the above is today's D. Telegraph)

    Dr Foxy posted a very good link last week to critical care outcomes in England. The table showed that BMI is a huge determinant of whether you ever come out of intensive care. The clinically obese (BMI over 30) are much more likely to succumb. Oddly, the overweight (BMI 25-30) were slightly more likely to survive than normal-weight or underweight individuals.

    The PM almost certainly has a BMI over 30. Perhaps over 35. Not good.

    And according to the medical stats expert on BBC Radio Scotland an hour ago, males in their 50s are 3 times (three times) more likely to die than females in their 50s. Not at all good.

    Heavy alcohol consumption makes you a sitting duck for a vast range of diseases and afflictions, including Covid19.

    I’m a bit younger than the PM and have a lower BMI. I assume I drink less alcohol than him too. And I’m scared. Every man over 40 with a poor track-record at the gym should be scared shitless.
    Yep I must admit I am worried. I am 54 with a BMI over 30. Until now I had considered myself to be low risk but had been following all the Government guidelines carefully to protect (I thought) other people. Trouble is I am now responsible for 100 or so houses in the village who can call on me to do shopping etc for them when all I really want to do now is batten down the hatches and sit this one out.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Just completely untrue. It does the opposite with me. It reminds me that everything outside my door, and indeed everything that comes through, is a potential virus vector.

    I never touch my mask and I carry anti-bacterials everywhere.

    We are hopelessly behind the curve on this. They are absolutely 100%, clearly, a preventative for viral spreading, both from those who have it and those who don't. All Asian countries have known this for years but we are pathetically clinging to the last vestiges of 'we know best.' We don't.

    Far far far more important than a message to stay indoors should be, 'wear a bloody mask.'
    Absolute nonsense
    /
    With respect I have been completely right about this virus all the way along, from the very start, and I'm right about masks. Everyone is falling into line. You will too. Eventually, though, in your case by the looks of it.

    I've been hot onto this for years but that's probably because I spent 10 years living and working in Asia.
    It's interesting as to why you and @eadric are so obsessed with being right.
    Visionaries find idiots frustrating.

    Just being honest.

    I was on a leadership team a while back and we all took the usual temperament tests, Myers-Briggs and all that (cue someone to post an article by Nate Silver explaining why they are unreliable).

    It was actually really useful to see that us strongly N types (Intuitives) do need the 'Computer-says-Nooooooo' types to keep us in check.

    Visionaries like me can be a pain in the arse.

    Even though we're right.

    :smiley:
    Please forgive me, oh great one.

    Us mere mortals can be a bit slow on the uptake.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,757

    Wonderful poem, Alastair. One of my favourites.

    It’s a sermon, not a poem.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    One thing that has worried me for some time is that Boris is very overweight: clinically obese with a BMI somewhere around 33 by most reckoning. That seems to be a factor in mortality, especially as he doesn't regularly exercise. I'm guessing he drinks a lot - well not just guessing. I heard somewhere that he has quite high blood pressure. That doesn't help either.

    According to the Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre the survival chance of a man his age is 54% without the aforementioned points.

    So if any of that is accurate, and I don't know for certain that it is, it indicates just how grim this is and that those headlines suggesting that Boris is 'fighting for his life' are about right.

    This is all pretty devastating news. And many of us have a creeping sense of dread.

    Get well Boris. Pull through. We are all rooting for you.


    (Source for some of the above is today's D. Telegraph)

    Dr Foxy posted a very good link last week to critical care outcomes in England. The table showed that BMI is a huge determinant of whether you ever come out of intensive care. The clinically obese (BMI over 30) are much more likely to succumb. Oddly, the overweight (BMI 25-30) were slightly more likely to survive than normal-weight or underweight individuals.

    The PM almost certainly has a BMI over 30. Perhaps over 35. Not good.

    And according to the medical stats expert on BBC Radio Scotland an hour ago, males in their 50s are 3 times (three times) more likely to die than females in their 50s. Not at all good.

    Heavy alcohol consumption makes you a sitting duck for a vast range of diseases and afflictions, including Covid19.

    I’m a bit younger than the PM and have a lower BMI. I assume I drink less alcohol than him too. And I’m scared. Every man over 40 with a poor track-record at the gym should be scared shitless.
    Really interesting Stuart. That point about a little bit of weight, but not too much, is fascinating. I wonder if it will continue to bear out. Maybe it's partly to do with the weight loss? Hancock said he lost half a stone in 2 days.
    I assumed it was either:

    A. a quirk in the stats due to small sample size (only a few hundred has been in intensive care for Covid19 when the table was published)

    or
    B. the effect of a lot of frail elderly people getting stage 2 Covid19
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136

    Ahem. When I drew attention to the risk, you described me as having turned into a cross between Eeyore and Private Fraser.

    At this particular moment a cross between Eeyore and Private Fraser is the superhero we need
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958

    My biggest gripe with personal space are runners. They seem to come charging up far too close and, of course, panting volumes of breath into one's vicinity.

    And cyclists.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Just completely untrue. It does the opposite with me. It reminds me that everything outside my door, and indeed everything that comes through, is a potential virus vector.

    I never touch my mask and I carry anti-bacterials everywhere.

    We are hopelessly behind the curve on this. They are absolutely 100%, clearly, a preventative for viral spreading, both from those who have it and those who don't. All Asian countries have known this for years but we are pathetically clinging to the last vestiges of 'we know best.' We don't.

    Far far far more important than a message to stay indoors should be, 'wear a bloody mask.'
    Absolute nonsense
    /
    With respect I have been completely right about this virus all the way along, from the very start, and I'm right about masks. Everyone is falling into line. You will too. Eventually, though, in your case by the looks of it.

    I've been hot onto this for years but that's probably because I spent 10 years living and working in Asia.
    Ahem. When I drew attention to the risk, you described me as having turned into a cross between Eeyore and Private Fraser.
    You're right I did. It was a moment of weakness for which I apologised. Foxy helped rescue me by posting links to my own Eeyore messages about this virus from January prior to your brilliant (and visionary) thread.

    Right I'd best get writing. Another chapter of my novel beckons.

    G'day to you all. Pb.com is almost the only regular place I visit online at the moment. I can only take in so much of this before my fuse box blows.

  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Scott_xP said:
    Can we?

    IMHO it was probably a good thing no-one knew about Churchill's heart attack during the nadir of WW2.
    It also reveals again a shocking ignorance about the way the illness affects people. I have seen many accounts saying that sufferers can seem relatively well for several days before their conditions change quite dramatically. Suggesting the idea that Downing Street was fibbing may just be speculative claptrap. The assumption of the worst interpretation possible is the media default position.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    My biggest gripe with personal space are runners. They seem to come charging up far too close and, of course, panting volumes of breath into one's vicinity.

    And cyclists.
    Yes absolutely!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Just completely untrue. It does the opposite with me. It reminds me that everything outside my door, and indeed everything that comes through, is a potential virus vector.

    I never touch my mask and I carry anti-bacterials everywhere.

    We are hopelessly behind the curve on this. They are absolutely 100%, clearly, a preventative for viral spreading, both from those who have it and those who don't. All Asian countries have known this for years but we are pathetically clinging to the last vestiges of 'we know best.' We don't.

    Far far far more important than a message to stay indoors should be, 'wear a bloody mask.'
    Doctorss wear masks and gloves not to prevent themselves catching infections, but to prevent themselves being the source of infections to the patient.

    The widespread use of masks by the public has the same utility, to prevent transmission rather than protect the wearer. Fully filtering masks have a different use.

    On my quiet drives to work and back, I would estimate that of the people on the streets, around a third are wearing masks, mostly the south asian community. Many demonstrate poor technique, but I am not surprised at that. I have been trained on these things, the public has not.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    edited April 2020

    Extraordinary story on Sky News, suggesting that care homes are being asked to take in elderly coronavirus patients thus, effectively, sacrificing the elderly. I'm not sure if this is misreporting but this can't be true surely?

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-sacrificing-the-elderly-care-homes-asked-to-take-covid-19-patients-11969661

    At this stage it's difficult to believe the NHS would have any spare ICU capacity at all unless some ruthless targeting of resources was going on.

    And what do you do with elderly people who are ill at home, if there aren't any hospital beds for them? The original herd immunity strategy (by which I mean a single two-month wave to "get it over with") would have meant many, many people dying at home, alone, without any medical care.
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    On the point in the lead about his cycling and by inference his fitness, the Daily Mail article linked from last thread suggested that the jogging and cycling fitness regime he used to follow is now a thing of the past.

    Yes the idea that he is very fit appears to be nonsense, unfortunately. He may very strong but that's not the same thing.
    I have noticed with others that a drawback of being a fitness enthusiast in middle age is that if ever you give it up everything tends to go pow.
    Morning everyone. Giving up work was what triggered health problems for me.
    I was running almost every day when this broke out.Took half a week off over this weekend, have just gone out for a 5k that quickly got caped at 3k. If nothing else I think good walks are needed when not running. At least for me. With my age/build/lifestyle...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Welcome back, Mr. Dickson.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 582
    edited April 2020
    Re: cyclists. On Friday I saw a group of four young cyclists and a woman - presumably their mother. She was riding on the road but the children were on the pavement and passed within inches of an elderly couple.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    He's very ill.

    That's the point.

    He was very ill yesterday, when the message was "working from his hospital bed"

    Spin is not helpful at this point
    Journalists spotted that the ‘Raab last spoke to him on Saturday’ revelation blew a hole in all of their claims he was running the country from his bed.
    So journalists have their uses...

    Though no doubt there are some fuckwits willing to call them traitors and suchlike for said hole blowing.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    ydoethur said:

    Wonderful poem, Alastair. One of my favourites.

    It’s a sermon, not a poem.
    A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet but it gives me an excellent chance to annoy Casino_Royale (not difficult) and post one of Donne's fabulous sonnets:

    Batter my heart, three-person’d God, for you
    As yet but knock, breathe, shine, and seek to mend;
    That I may rise and stand, o’erthrow me, and bend
    Your force to break, blow, burn, and make me new.
    I, like an usurp’d town to another due,
    Labour to admit you, but oh, to no end;
    Reason, your viceroy in me, me should defend,
    But is captiv’d, and proves weak or untrue.
    Yet dearly I love you, and would be lov’d fain,
    But am betroth’d unto your enemy;
    Divorce me, untie or break that knot again,
    Take me to you, imprison me, for I,
    Except you enthrall me, never shall be free,
    Nor ever chaste, except you ravish me.
  • @AlastairMeeks - yes, the same poem has been ringing in my ears for the last 24 hours. When my colleagues adopted an "I'm alright, Jack" attitude, it was the first thing I thought.

    What's so frustrating is how powerless we are. I'm not physically able to volunteer to help others, so the best thing I can do is stay at home and not be a drain on hospital resources. It feels cowardly, yet it's the only course of action.

    --AS
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    I see the denial continues amongst the government over the trade negotiations with the EU,

    When will this charade come to an end .
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    Scott_xP said:

    IanB2 said:

    On the point in the lead about his cycling and by inference his fitness, the Daily Mail article linked from last thread suggested that the jogging and cycling fitness regime he used to follow is now a thing of the past.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1247403701662334981
    I really can't see how this kind of stuff helps. Better to prepare people for the possibility of a bad outcome.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Just completely untrue. It does the opposite with me. It reminds me that everything outside my door, and indeed everything that comes through, is a potential virus vector.

    I never touch my mask and I carry anti-bacterials everywhere.

    We are hopelessly behind the curve on this. They are absolutely 100%, clearly, a preventative for viral spreading, both from those who have it and those who don't. All Asian countries have known this for years but we are pathetically clinging to the last vestiges of 'we know best.' We don't.

    Far far far more important than a message to stay indoors should be, 'wear a bloody mask.'
    Absolute nonsense
    /
    With respect I have been completely right about this virus all the way along, from the very start, and I'm right about masks. Everyone is falling into line. You will too. Eventually, though, in your case by the looks of it.

    I've been hot onto this for years but that's probably because I spent 10 years living and working in Asia.
    Ahem. When I drew attention to the risk, you described me as having turned into a cross between Eeyore and Private Fraser.
    You're right I did. It was a moment of weakness for which I apologised. Foxy helped rescue me by posting links to my own Eeyore messages about this virus from January prior to your brilliant (and visionary) thread.

    Right I'd best get writing. Another chapter of my novel beckons.

    G'day to you all. Pb.com is almost the only regular place I visit online at the moment. I can only take in so much of this before my fuse box blows.

    It remains a strength of PB that crap gets so quickly called out, for sure.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Can we?

    IMHO it was probably a good thing no-one knew about Churchill's heart attack during the nadir of WW2.
    It also reveals again a shocking ignorance about the way the illness affects people. I have seen many accounts saying that sufferers can seem relatively well for several days before their conditions change quite dramatically. Suggesting the idea that Downing Street was fibbing may just be speculative claptrap. The assumption of the worst interpretation possible is the media default position.
    The trouble is that admitting your true weaknesses to your team can demoralise them.

    Leaders need to project resilience and resolve if they are to inspire people.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    I'm probably lower than average risk for this one but still very worried :/
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Just completely untrue. It does the opposite with me. It reminds me that everything outside my door, and indeed everything that comes through, is a potential virus vector.

    I never touch my mask and I carry anti-bacterials everywhere.

    We are hopelessly behind the curve on this. They are absolutely 100%, clearly, a preventative for viral spreading, both from those who have it and those who don't. All Asian countries have known this for years but we are pathetically clinging to the last vestiges of 'we know best.' We don't.

    Far far far more important than a message to stay indoors should be, 'wear a bloody mask.'
    Absolute nonsense
    /
    With respect I have been completely right about this virus all the way along, from the very start, and I'm right about masks. Everyone is falling into line. You will too. Eventually, though, in your case by the looks of it.

    I've been hot onto this for years but that's probably because I spent 10 years living and working in Asia.
    It's interesting as to why you and @eadric are so obsessed with being right.
    Visionaries find idiots frustrating.

    Just being honest.
    Fake visionaries should be the first against the wall ;)
    But only after the bunch of mindless jerks at the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetic Corporation.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Just completely untrue. It does the opposite with me. It reminds me that everything outside my door, and indeed everything that comes through, is a potential virus vector.

    I never touch my mask and I carry anti-bacterials everywhere.

    We are hopelessly behind the curve on this. They are absolutely 100%, clearly, a preventative for viral spreading, both from those who have it and those who don't. All Asian countries have known this for years but we are pathetically clinging to the last vestiges of 'we know best.' We don't.

    Far far far more important than a message to stay indoors should be, 'wear a bloody mask.'
    Absolute nonsense
    /
    With respect I have been completely right about this virus all the way along, from the very start, and I'm right about masks. Everyone is falling into line. You will too. Eventually, though, in your case by the looks of it.

    I've been hot onto this for years but that's probably because I spent 10 years living and working in Asia.
    Ahem. When I drew attention to the risk, you described me as having turned into a cross between Eeyore and Private Fraser.
    You're right I did. It was a moment of weakness for which I apologised. Foxy helped rescue me by posting links to my own Eeyore messages about this virus from January prior to your brilliant (and visionary) thread.

    Right I'd best get writing. Another chapter of my novel beckons.

    G'day to you all. Pb.com is almost the only regular place I visit online at the moment. I can only take in so much of this before my fuse box blows.

    It remains a strength of PB that crap gets so quickly called out, for sure.
    Haha true :D
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    @AlastairMeeks - yes, the same poem has been ringing in my ears for the last 24 hours. When my colleagues adopted an "I'm alright, Jack" attitude, it was the first thing I thought.

    What's so frustrating is how powerless we are. I'm not physically able to volunteer to help others, so the best thing I can do is stay at home and not be a drain on hospital resources. It feels cowardly, yet it's the only course of action.

    --AS

    They also serve who only stand and wait.

    I’d quote the whole thing, but out of deference to @Casino_Royale I'll go light on the poetry.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    One thing that has worried me for some time is that Boris is very overweight: clinically obese with a BMI somewhere around 33 by most reckoning. That seems to be a factor in mortality, especially as he doesn't regularly exercise. I'm guessing he drinks a lot - well not just guessing. I heard somewhere that he has quite high blood pressure. That doesn't help either.

    According to the Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre the survival chance of a man his age is 54% without the aforementioned points.

    So if any of that is accurate, and I don't know for certain that it is, it indicates just how grim this is and that those headlines suggesting that Boris is 'fighting for his life' are about right.

    This is all pretty devastating news. And many of us have a creeping sense of dread.

    Get well Boris. Pull through. We are all rooting for you.


    (Source for some of the above is today's D. Telegraph)

    Dr Foxy posted a very good link last week to critical care outcomes in England. The table showed that BMI is a huge determinant of whether you ever come out of intensive care. The clinically obese (BMI over 30) are much more likely to succumb. Oddly, the overweight (BMI 25-30) were slightly more likely to survive than normal-weight or underweight individuals.

    The PM almost certainly has a BMI over 30. Perhaps over 35. Not good.

    And according to the medical stats expert on BBC Radio Scotland an hour ago, males in their 50s are 3 times (three times) more likely to die than females in their 50s. Not at all good.

    Heavy alcohol consumption makes you a sitting duck for a vast range of diseases and afflictions, including Covid19.

    I’m a bit younger than the PM and have a lower BMI. I assume I drink less alcohol than him too. And I’m scared. Every man over 40 with a poor track-record at the gym should be scared shitless.
    Really interesting Stuart. That point about a little bit of weight, but not too much, is fascinating. I wonder if it will continue to bear out. Maybe it's partly to do with the weight loss? Hancock said he lost half a stone in 2 days.
    I assumed it was either:

    A. a quirk in the stats due to small sample size (only a few hundred has been in intensive care for Covid19 when the table was published)

    or
    B. the effect of a lot of frail elderly people getting stage 2 Covid19
    Low body weight in a medical setting is often an indication of serious underlying conditions, cancer, alcoholism, drug addiction etc. I suspect that the ICU figures are a proxy for that.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    I'm at risk and scared. A little overweight and with some iffy health issues. I live on my own too which isn't brilliant. Catch this and I could be in trouble.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    SandraMc said:

    Re: cyclists. On Friday I saw a group of four young cyclists and a woman - presumably their mother. She was riding on the road but the children were on the pavement and passed within inches of an elderly couple.

    The only person apart from my wife I have come within 2m of in the last 3 weeks was a fucking cyclist who came past me nearer to 2 feet. I didn't hear him coming up behind me, I'd no chance to evade him as I was already by the hedge on the lane. Plenty of room for him to move over. Arsehole.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Just completely untrue. It does the opposite with me. It reminds me that everything outside my door, and indeed everything that comes through, is a potential virus vector.

    I never touch my mask and I carry anti-bacterials everywhere.

    We are hopelessly behind the curve on this. They are absolutely 100%, clearly, a preventative for viral spreading, both from those who have it and those who don't. All Asian countries have known this for years but we are pathetically clinging to the last vestiges of 'we know best.' We don't.

    Far far far more important than a message to stay indoors should be, 'wear a bloody mask.'
    Doctorss wear masks and gloves not to prevent themselves catching infections, but to prevent themselves being the source of infections to the patient.

    The widespread use of masks by the public has the same utility, to prevent transmission rather than protect the wearer. Fully filtering masks have a different use.

    On my quiet drives to work and back, I would estimate that of the people on the streets, around a third are wearing masks, mostly the south asian community. Many demonstrate poor technique, but I am not surprised at that. I have been trained on these things, the public has not.
    I think the optimal strategy would be to encourage the public to wear masks, but hammer home the message that ordinary masks won't protect them.
  • I'm at risk and scared. A little overweight and with some iffy health issues. I live on my own too which isn't brilliant. Catch this and I could be in trouble.

    Is there anyone who can help by bringing shopping to you ?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748


    Right I'd best get writing. Another chapter of my novel beckons.

    Is there an expression that conveys the opposite impression of 'must read'?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    High Court of Australia quashes sexual abuse convictions of Cardinal Pell
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-52183157
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019

    SandraMc said:

    Re: cyclists. On Friday I saw a group of four young cyclists and a woman - presumably their mother. She was riding on the road but the children were on the pavement and passed within inches of an elderly couple.

    The only person apart from my wife I have come within 2m of in the last 3 weeks was a fucking cyclist who came past me nearer to 2 feet. I didn't hear him coming up behind me, I'd no chance to evade him as I was already by the hedge on the lane. Plenty of room for him to move over. Arsehole.
    Why do so many cyclists do this?

    I assume he was a MAMIL?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    On the point in the lead about his cycling and by inference his fitness, the Daily Mail article linked from last thread suggested that the jogging and cycling fitness regime he used to follow is now a thing of the past.

    Yes the idea that he is very fit appears to be nonsense, unfortunately. He may very strong but that's not the same thing.
    I have noticed with others that a drawback of being a fitness enthusiast in middle age is that if ever you give it up everything tends to go pow.
    Morning everyone. Giving up work was what triggered health problems for me.
    I was running almost every day when this broke out.Took half a week off over this weekend, have just gone out for a 5k that quickly got caped at 3k. If nothing else I think good walks are needed when not running. At least for me. With my age/build/lifestyle...
    I've gone from an hour at the gym two or three times a week to (almost) an hour's walk most days. I'm lucky, though, that we live in a small town and there are plenty of places where my wife and I can go for a walk and either not meet people, or be able to give them a wide berth.
    I feel very sorry indeed for people in flats or terraces, especially if they have children.
    And I feel very, very sorry for the 14-20 age group who should be developing their social relationships.
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    If the Prime Minister's situation does any good at all it will hopefully be to remind people that they aren't invulnerable and should conform with the messages that the Government has been putting out over recent weeks.

    I agree but I don't like the social media vigilantism, often ill-informed and rushing to judgement.

    It's vital to remember that getting outside once a day for exercise is extremely important for physical and mental wellbeing. I do just wish this country weren't lagging so very far behind on the wearing of masks. They should be mandatory in public places during this lockdown.
    I am still not sure. I saw some guy fiddling with his mask yesterday, and those relatively few mask wearers I have seen around here (particularly the older ones) always seem to be adjusting it. Wearing a mask probably makes you more cavalier about touching stuff as well. If you are going to carry everything you have touched around on a face mask all day you certainly aren’t helping yourself.
    Just completely untrue. It does the opposite with me. It reminds me that everything outside my door, and indeed everything that comes through, is a potential virus vector.

    I never touch my mask and I carry anti-bacterials everywhere.

    We are hopelessly behind the curve on this. They are absolutely 100%, clearly, a preventative for viral spreading, both from those who have it and those who don't. All Asian countries have known this for years but we are pathetically clinging to the last vestiges of 'we know best.' We don't.

    Far far far more important than a message to stay indoors should be, 'wear a bloody mask.'
    Absolute nonsense
    /
    With respect I have been completely right about this virus all the way along, from the very start, and I'm right about masks. Everyone is falling into line. You will too. Eventually, though, in your case by the looks of it.

    I've been hot onto this for years but that's probably because I spent 10 years living and working in Asia.
    It's interesting as to why you and @eadric are so obsessed with being right.
    Visionaries find idiots frustrating.

    Just being honest.
    Fake visionaries should be the first against the wall ;)
    But only after the bunch of mindless jerks at the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetic Corporation.
    Ha Ha, love that reference.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019

    @AlastairMeeks - yes, the same poem has been ringing in my ears for the last 24 hours. When my colleagues adopted an "I'm alright, Jack" attitude, it was the first thing I thought.

    What's so frustrating is how powerless we are. I'm not physically able to volunteer to help others, so the best thing I can do is stay at home and not be a drain on hospital resources. It feels cowardly, yet it's the only course of action.

    --AS

    They also serve who only stand and wait.

    I’d quote the whole thing, but out of deference to @Casino_Royale I'll go light on the poetry.
    It's small acts of kindness and consideration like this that will help us all get through the next few months.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958

    @AlastairMeeks - yes, the same poem has been ringing in my ears for the last 24 hours. When my colleagues adopted an "I'm alright, Jack" attitude, it was the first thing I thought.

    What's so frustrating is how powerless we are. I'm not physically able to volunteer to help others, so the best thing I can do is stay at home and not be a drain on hospital resources. It feels cowardly, yet it's the only course of action.

    --AS

    Staying at home and not being a drain on hospital resources is the greatest assistance all of us can render in this crisis. Don't apologise. Wear that badge with pride.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    On the point in the lead about his cycling and by inference his fitness, the Daily Mail article linked from last thread suggested that the jogging and cycling fitness regime he used to follow is now a thing of the past.

    Yes the idea that he is very fit appears to be nonsense, unfortunately. He may very strong but that's not the same thing.
    I have noticed with others that a drawback of being a fitness enthusiast in middle age is that if ever you give it up everything tends to go pow.
    So I'm ok, having never started.
    That was always my theory. The best theories are the convenient ones.

    Fortunately after a middle age of indolence, I got a dog and started walking a lot more. Which has done wonders in late middle age, even though I do have some weight to lose (being in the apparently safest slightly overweight category).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958

    SandraMc said:

    Re: cyclists. On Friday I saw a group of four young cyclists and a woman - presumably their mother. She was riding on the road but the children were on the pavement and passed within inches of an elderly couple.

    The only person apart from my wife I have come within 2m of in the last 3 weeks was a fucking cyclist who came past me nearer to 2 feet. I didn't hear him coming up behind me, I'd no chance to evade him as I was already by the hedge on the lane. Plenty of room for him to move over. Arsehole.
    Why do so many cyclists do this?

    I assume he was a MAMIL?
    Yup. Neon lycra at that.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Foxy said:

    One thing that has worried me for some time is that Boris is very overweight: clinically obese with a BMI somewhere around 33 by most reckoning. That seems to be a factor in mortality, especially as he doesn't regularly exercise. I'm guessing he drinks a lot - well not just guessing. I heard somewhere that he has quite high blood pressure. That doesn't help either.

    According to the Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre the survival chance of a man his age is 54% without the aforementioned points.

    So if any of that is accurate, and I don't know for certain that it is, it indicates just how grim this is and that those headlines suggesting that Boris is 'fighting for his life' are about right.

    This is all pretty devastating news. And many of us have a creeping sense of dread.

    Get well Boris. Pull through. We are all rooting for you.


    (Source for some of the above is today's D. Telegraph)

    Dr Foxy posted a very good link last week to critical care outcomes in England. The table showed that BMI is a huge determinant of whether you ever come out of intensive care. The clinically obese (BMI over 30) are much more likely to succumb. Oddly, the overweight (BMI 25-30) were slightly more likely to survive than normal-weight or underweight individuals.

    The PM almost certainly has a BMI over 30. Perhaps over 35. Not good.

    And according to the medical stats expert on BBC Radio Scotland an hour ago, males in their 50s are 3 times (three times) more likely to die than females in their 50s. Not at all good.

    Heavy alcohol consumption makes you a sitting duck for a vast range of diseases and afflictions, including Covid19.

    I’m a bit younger than the PM and have a lower BMI. I assume I drink less alcohol than him too. And I’m scared. Every man over 40 with a poor track-record at the gym should be scared shitless.
    Really interesting Stuart. That point about a little bit of weight, but not too much, is fascinating. I wonder if it will continue to bear out. Maybe it's partly to do with the weight loss? Hancock said he lost half a stone in 2 days.
    I assumed it was either:

    A. a quirk in the stats due to small sample size (only a few hundred has been in intensive care for Covid19 when the table was published)

    or
    B. the effect of a lot of frail elderly people getting stage 2 Covid19
    Low body weight in a medical setting is often an indication of serious underlying conditions, cancer, alcoholism, drug addiction etc. I suspect that the ICU figures are a proxy for that.
    Thanks. Has the NHS in England published an updated table of critical care outcomes for Covid19?
This discussion has been closed.