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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With six and a half months to go till WH2020 Trump is still in

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited April 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With six and a half months to go till WH2020 Trump is still in negative approval territory

Unlike in the UK where for less importance is attached to leader ratings the approval numbers for an incumbent US president are generally seen as a good indicator of how the next election is going to shape out.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited April 2020
    1st

    Biden at 4%?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,722
    edited April 2020
    2nd rate like UK Government response to Covid 19
  • First once vanilla does it magic.

    Trump really is an arse but his supporters love him.
  • FPT

    I think we can stick Ticketmaster on the bastard list. Apparently they have changed their TOS, no refunds unless a show is cancelled. If it is simply indefinitely postponed pending some as yet unknown rescheduled date, you can't get your money back.

    This is why I buy tickets on my credit card.

    I've given up on seeing Scooter on the 23rd of May.
    I can't imagine ANY of the Muppets will be out by then.....

    This Scooter.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YxTa1AUqps
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    5th rate like the law breaking Corbnista who leaked the Labour report when they found out it couldn't go to the EHRC because of multiple breaches of data law....
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,722
    So again todays new cases and new deaths showing slight decline. Next 2 days will reveal if BH / Weekend lag is a big factor.

    I fear 1000 new deaths is a definite possibility on either Wednesday or Thursday.

    Let's hope not.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,957
    edited April 2020

    5th rate like the law breaking Corbnista who leaked the Labour report when they found out it couldn't go to the EHRC because of multiple breaches of data law....

    My friend, a solicitor who knows this area of law, said they rolled their eyes so many times reading that report, they saw their own optical nerve on several occasions.

    He also thinks at least one shadow minister is up shit creek without a canoe.

    Oh and Richard Burgon's suggestion is so dumb, we need a new word for his idiocy.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,722
    French numbers jumped massively when they started including did they not?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,451
    edited April 2020
    Fake news. They said from confirmed or suspected Covid 19. Given they say there is not much testing, and most hospital tests for suspected Covid 19 are negative, the numbers of actual Covid 19 from those 521 will be a lot lower.

    There will be other deaths caused by Covid 19 that were neither confirmed or suspected as such. So we dont have exact numbers of deaths and the care homes did not say we did.

    Poor journalism yet again.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    5th rate like the law breaking Corbnista who leaked the Labour report when they found out it couldn't go to the EHRC because of multiple breaches of data law....

    My friend, a solicitor who knows this area of law, said they rolled their eyes so many times reading that report, they say their own optical nerve on several occasions.

    He also thinks at least one shadow minister is up shit creek without a canoe.

    Oh and Richard Burgon's suggestion is so dumb, we need a new word for his idiocy.
    Looking forward to the legal action. Better get some more popcorn if I can get a food delivery.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,722

    5th rate like the law breaking Corbnista who leaked the Labour report when they found out it couldn't go to the EHRC because of multiple breaches of data law....

    Your 7th BTW!!

    Under reporting like the UK Government!!!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Fake news. They said from confirmed or suspected Covid 19. Given they say there is not much testing, and most hospital tests for suspected Covid 19 are negative, the numbers of actual Covid 19 from those 521 will be a lot lower.

    There will be other deaths caused by Covid 19 that were neither confirmed or suspected as such. So we dont have exact numbers of deaths and the care homes did not say we did.

    Poor journalism yet again.
    I expect the number will be far higher than 521 in reality:

    https://www.ft.com/content/99220450-b0f2-4779-a768-90d199d1348c?desktop=true&segmentId=d8d3e364-5197-20eb-17cf-2437841d178a
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    On topic: Not yet anything like as negative as they should be.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    IshmaelZ said:

    1st

    Biden at 4%?

    42% by my calcs.
  • 5th rate like the law breaking Corbnista who leaked the Labour report when they found out it couldn't go to the EHRC because of multiple breaches of data law....

    My friend, a solicitor who knows this area of law, said they rolled their eyes so many times reading that report, they saw their own optical nerve on several occasions.

    He also thinks at least one shadow minister is up shit creek without a canoe.

    Oh and Richard Burgon's suggestion is so dumb, we need a new word for his idiocy.
    An "expulsion" of idiocy
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,138

    TGOHF666 said:
    The whole thing is sickening and has inevitably been blown up by The National (or "McPravda" as it is unaffectionately known.)

    The idea that the UK Govt or "the English" are deliberately discriminating against the poor beleaguered Scots is, of course, nonsense but feeds straight into the grievance narrative which seems to be so important to some strains of Scottish nationalism. It is completely contemptible but sadly it is a political fact of life that we have to deal with.
    We don't know the facts so your reaction is premature.

    There does seem to have been a very serious cockup, to put the best face on things. It's one thing to say sorry, we're chokka, but quite another to think one is forbidden even to talk to Scottish and Welsh customers. It's clear that four companies are now refusing to supply Scottish and Welsh customers and one of them has said it is directly due to Public Health England who have imposed restrictions. And the care homes industry body is the one which raised it, as it is causing care homes serious problems. .


  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958

    FPT

    I think we can stick Ticketmaster on the bastard list. Apparently they have changed their TOS, no refunds unless a show is cancelled. If it is simply indefinitely postponed pending some as yet unknown rescheduled date, you can't get your money back.

    This is why I buy tickets on my credit card.

    I've given up on seeing Scooter on the 23rd of May.
    I can't imagine ANY of the Muppets will be out by then.....

    This Scooter.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YxTa1AUqps
    That version is the crime of the century.....
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    Has the government released any results from the Porton Down testing? I can't find any, and I was hoping by now that it would provide a good guide to the general rate of infection in the country.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,451

    Fake news. They said from confirmed or suspected Covid 19. Given they say there is not much testing, and most hospital tests for suspected Covid 19 are negative, the numbers of actual Covid 19 from those 521 will be a lot lower.

    There will be other deaths caused by Covid 19 that were neither confirmed or suspected as such. So we dont have exact numbers of deaths and the care homes did not say we did.

    Poor journalism yet again.
    I expect the number will be far higher than 521 in reality:

    https://www.ft.com/content/99220450-b0f2-4779-a768-90d199d1348c?desktop=true&segmentId=d8d3e364-5197-20eb-17cf-2437841d178a
    I have no idea in those two care homes, but yes the thrust of there are more people generally dying than the hospital numbers is of course correct.

    The way it is presented is very frustrating though. The wider ONS numbers have always been available, just with a delay. Sky are reporting them as though its govt numbers vs ONS numbers - when clearly the ONS is part of the govt. Hospital numbers are particularly relevant as a key govt objective is to stop the NHS breaking - it doesnt make other deaths less sad, but in terms of managing the crisis NHS capacity is key.

    And if people go out of their way to criticise the CMO and CSO for misleading the public by using NHS figures (when that is all they have ever said they were), then don't mislead the public by misquoting the owners of care homes to imply more accuracy than was given.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    According to the latest Gallup at the end of last month, Trump is on 49% approval, at the same stage of his presidency in 2012 Obama was on 46%.

    So Trump is still certainly not beaten yet

    https://news.gallup.com/interactives/185273/r.aspx
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,394
    Carnyx said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    The whole thing is sickening and has inevitably been blown up by The National (or "McPravda" as it is unaffectionately known.)

    The idea that the UK Govt or "the English" are deliberately discriminating against the poor beleaguered Scots is, of course, nonsense but feeds straight into the grievance narrative which seems to be so important to some strains of Scottish nationalism. It is completely contemptible but sadly it is a political fact of life that we have to deal with.
    We don't know the facts so your reaction is premature.

    There does seem to have been a very serious cockup, to put the best face on things. It's one thing to say sorry, we're chokka, but quite another to think one is forbidden even to talk to Scottish and Welsh customers. It's clear that four companies are now refusing to supply Scottish and Welsh customers and one of them has said it is directly due to Public Health England who have imposed restrictions. And the care homes industry body is the one which raised it, as it is causing care homes serious problems. .


    No, my reaction as per National treatment of story, is not premature. The Chief Clinical Officer, Jason Leitch, has been categorical that the reporting is mince.

    https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/scotland/claim-england-has-priority-on-ppe-is-rubbish-scotlands-clinical-chief-says/

    It's been a deliberate attempt to play to the old grievance hymn sheet. Contemptible.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861
    edited April 2020

    Fake news. They said from confirmed or suspected Covid 19. Given they say there is not much testing, and most hospital tests for suspected Covid 19 are negative, the numbers of actual Covid 19 from those 521 will be a lot lower.

    There will be other deaths caused by Covid 19 that were neither confirmed or suspected as such. So we dont have exact numbers of deaths and the care homes did not say we did.

    Poor journalism yet again.
    So do you think it is just a coincidence that there are news stories doing the rounds about high proportions of care-home deaths over the weekend/last week is happening at the same time as a pandemic outbreak which is particulalty fatal for elderly people? I suppose it could be "just flu"
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,770
    HYUFD said:

    According to the latest Gallup at the end of last month, Trump is on 49% approval, at the same stage of his presidency in 2012 Obama was on 46%.

    So Trump is still certainly not beaten yet

    https://news.gallup.com/interactives/185273/r.aspx

    I agree that Trump isn't beat, but you are cherry picking your polls, and you are also choosing to ignore that Trump has consistently higher negatives than Obama.
  • SockySocky Posts: 404


    Oh and Richard Burgon's suggestion is so dumb, we need a new word for his idiocy.

    The milliburgon, where > 10 mb is very idiotic.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    I think people are mostly giving to him for his Services to Terry-Thomas Impersonation (you need to scroll down the piece) but whatever, this guy has caught the national mood. Bless him.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-52278746
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    Fake news. They said from confirmed or suspected Covid 19. Given they say there is not much testing, and most hospital tests for suspected Covid 19 are negative, the numbers of actual Covid 19 from those 521 will be a lot lower.

    There will be other deaths caused by Covid 19 that were neither confirmed or suspected as such. So we dont have exact numbers of deaths and the care homes did not say we did.

    Poor journalism yet again.
    I expect the number will be far higher than 521 in reality:

    https://www.ft.com/content/99220450-b0f2-4779-a768-90d199d1348c?desktop=true&segmentId=d8d3e364-5197-20eb-17cf-2437841d178a
    I have no idea in those two care homes, but yes the thrust of there are more people generally dying than the hospital numbers is of course correct.

    The way it is presented is very frustrating though. The wider ONS numbers have always been available, just with a delay. Sky are reporting them as though its govt numbers vs ONS numbers - when clearly the ONS is part of the govt. Hospital numbers are particularly relevant as a key govt objective is to stop the NHS breaking - it doesnt make other deaths less sad, but in terms of managing the crisis NHS capacity is key.

    And if people go out of their way to criticise the CMO and CSO for misleading the public by using NHS figures (when that is all they have ever said they were), then don't mislead the public by misquoting the owners of care homes to imply more accuracy than was given.
    The CMO and CSO are misleading the public with their charts . In an effort to make the UK not look as bad they’re comparing French combined hospital and care home deaths to just UK hospital ones .

    The government obviously realized that the UK doing worse than both France and Germany was too damaging .

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Fake news. They said from confirmed or suspected Covid 19. Given they say there is not much testing, and most hospital tests for suspected Covid 19 are negative, the numbers of actual Covid 19 from those 521 will be a lot lower.

    There will be other deaths caused by Covid 19 that were neither confirmed or suspected as such. So we dont have exact numbers of deaths and the care homes did not say we did.

    Poor journalism yet again.
    I expect the number will be far higher than 521 in reality:

    https://www.ft.com/content/99220450-b0f2-4779-a768-90d199d1348c?desktop=true&segmentId=d8d3e364-5197-20eb-17cf-2437841d178a
    I have no idea in those two care homes, but yes the thrust of there are more people generally dying than the hospital numbers is of course correct.

    The way it is presented is very frustrating though. The wider ONS numbers have always been available, just with a delay. Sky are reporting them as though its govt numbers vs ONS numbers - when clearly the ONS is part of the govt. Hospital numbers are particularly relevant as a key govt objective is to stop the NHS breaking - it doesnt make other deaths less sad, but in terms of managing the crisis NHS capacity is key.

    And if people go out of their way to criticise the CMO and CSO for misleading the public by using NHS figures (when that is all they have ever said they were), then don't mislead the public by misquoting the owners of care homes to imply more accuracy than was given.
    The ONS figures are much the most useful because they give a benchmark against normality and don't rely on testing or medical expertise to determine cause of death. A dead person is a dead person and easily counted.

    What the ONS figures tell us is that roughly twice as many "excess" people died in the most recent week for which we have data as were recorded for Covid-19 for the daily deaths in hospital from Covid-19 in that week at the time. It is reasonable to attribute that excess to Covid-19 in the absence of any other obvious explanation.

    For the moment, doubling the cumulative deaths in hospital from Covid-19 announced by the DHSC seems a reasonable rule of thumb.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861
    Trump sees Cpt. Bligh as a role model?
  • isamisam Posts: 40,730
    The ONS stats have 2500 deaths that are above the yearly average for the week concerned, and not due to Covid-19. Got to be a big chance these are the care home deaths
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Bunnies doing what bunnies will do.....
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,043
    The saddest thing about this Scotland v England PPE story is that many SNP supporters will actually believe it. Otherwise intelligent people will actually believe that some handrubbing version of Edward longshanks really has asked a company with a contract to cover the whole of the UK to 'prioritise England hahahahahah', because of a supposed genuine antipathy to all Scottish people and conversely a genuine liking for English people that is just as quaintly unlikely. Plenty of callous, elitist politicians and civil servants exist in Westminster, but the idea that these people especially favour the incontinence pad wearers of Dudley over those of Dundee would be laughed at by anyone in England, but sadly not in Scotland. It runs that deep.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    HYUFD said:

    According to the latest Gallup at the end of last month, Trump is on 49% approval, at the same stage of his presidency in 2012 Obama was on 46%.

    So Trump is still certainly not beaten yet

    https://news.gallup.com/interactives/185273/r.aspx

    I don't think anybody bar me thinks he is.

    He's the betting favourite in fact.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,730
    One of my favourites too. Bligh was the good guy as it turned out.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820


    ...
    For the moment, doubling the cumulative deaths in hospital from Covid-19 announced by the DHSC seems a reasonable rule of thumb.

    Yes, which is not a surprise, and is broadly compatible with what the figures for other countries have shown.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,451
    eristdoof said:

    Fake news. They said from confirmed or suspected Covid 19. Given they say there is not much testing, and most hospital tests for suspected Covid 19 are negative, the numbers of actual Covid 19 from those 521 will be a lot lower.

    There will be other deaths caused by Covid 19 that were neither confirmed or suspected as such. So we dont have exact numbers of deaths and the care homes did not say we did.

    Poor journalism yet again.
    So do you think it is just a coincidence that there are news stories doing the rounds about high proportions of care-home deaths over the weekend/last week is happening at the same time as a pandemic outbreak which is particulalty fatal for elderly people? I suppose it could be "just flu"
    No its not a coincidence, of course care homes are being hit and hit hard. They should have had more resources pre-virus and suffered from being behind the rest of the health service in terms of the initial govt (and press for that matter) response.

    I just prefer people being careful and clear when quoting numbers. Given most tests are to people with symptoms and most turn out negative, it is pretty likely that most of the suspected covid 19 deaths were not covid 19 related. With not much testing in care homes its possible the real numbers from that 521 sample are half what the tweet says.

    And for balance I pointed out that wasnt the whole picture, that on the opposite side, there were other deaths that are covid 19 related that were neither confirmed nor suspected.

    I dont know the point of the just flu comment.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,730

    FPT

    I think we can stick Ticketmaster on the bastard list. Apparently they have changed their TOS, no refunds unless a show is cancelled. If it is simply indefinitely postponed pending some as yet unknown rescheduled date, you can't get your money back.

    This is why I buy tickets on my credit card.

    I've given up on seeing Scooter on the 23rd of May.
    I can't imagine ANY of the Muppets will be out by then.....

    This Scooter.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YxTa1AUqps
    Good lord.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,730


    ...
    For the moment, doubling the cumulative deaths in hospital from Covid-19 announced by the DHSC seems a reasonable rule of thumb.

    Yes, which is not a surprise, and is broadly compatible with what the figures for other countries have shown.
    Doubling the amount for 80+ year olds I'd say. So a 50% increase
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    isam said:

    One of my favourites too. Bligh was the good guy as it turned out.
    Yes, but not in the movie versions......
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,722
    edited April 2020
  • Paging my fellow New Order fans.



    New Order's Manchester International Festival show is being streamed for free this weekend

    The event is part of a new MIF LIVE programme of free online shows and talks


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/whats-on/music-nightlife-news/manchester-international-festival-streaming-free-18088568
  • SockySocky Posts: 404

    The saddest thing about this Scotland v England PPE story is that many SNP supporters will actually believe it.

    Though there has been appropriate criticism of Labour's recent racism problems, anti-English racism has rather got a pass from the media.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    eristdoof said:

    Fake news. They said from confirmed or suspected Covid 19. Given they say there is not much testing, and most hospital tests for suspected Covid 19 are negative, the numbers of actual Covid 19 from those 521 will be a lot lower.

    There will be other deaths caused by Covid 19 that were neither confirmed or suspected as such. So we dont have exact numbers of deaths and the care homes did not say we did.

    Poor journalism yet again.
    So do you think it is just a coincidence that there are news stories doing the rounds about high proportions of care-home deaths over the weekend/last week is happening at the same time as a pandemic outbreak which is particulalty fatal for elderly people? I suppose it could be "just flu"
    No its not a coincidence, of course care homes are being hit and hit hard. They should have had more resources pre-virus and suffered from being behind the rest of the health service in terms of the initial govt (and press for that matter) response.

    I just prefer people being careful and clear when quoting numbers. Given most tests are to people with symptoms and most turn out negative, it is pretty likely that most of the suspected covid 19 deaths were not covid 19 related. With not much testing in care homes its possible the real numbers from that 521 sample are half what the tweet says.

    And for balance I pointed out that wasnt the whole picture, that on the opposite side, there were other deaths that are covid 19 related that were neither confirmed nor suspected.

    I dont know the point of the just flu comment.
    No, no, no. Most symptoms of Covid 19 are also symptoms of other things like colds and hay fever. One symptom- that of dying- is highly diagnostic of Covid19 as against most of those alternatives. So It is fallacious nonsense to say "Given most tests are to people with symptoms and most turn out negative, it is pretty likely that most of the suspected covid 19 deaths were not covid 19 related."
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,451

    Fake news. They said from confirmed or suspected Covid 19. Given they say there is not much testing, and most hospital tests for suspected Covid 19 are negative, the numbers of actual Covid 19 from those 521 will be a lot lower.

    There will be other deaths caused by Covid 19 that were neither confirmed or suspected as such. So we dont have exact numbers of deaths and the care homes did not say we did.

    Poor journalism yet again.
    I expect the number will be far higher than 521 in reality:

    https://www.ft.com/content/99220450-b0f2-4779-a768-90d199d1348c?desktop=true&segmentId=d8d3e364-5197-20eb-17cf-2437841d178a
    I have no idea in those two care homes, but yes the thrust of there are more people generally dying than the hospital numbers is of course correct.

    The way it is presented is very frustrating though. The wider ONS numbers have always been available, just with a delay. Sky are reporting them as though its govt numbers vs ONS numbers - when clearly the ONS is part of the govt. Hospital numbers are particularly relevant as a key govt objective is to stop the NHS breaking - it doesnt make other deaths less sad, but in terms of managing the crisis NHS capacity is key.

    And if people go out of their way to criticise the CMO and CSO for misleading the public by using NHS figures (when that is all they have ever said they were), then don't mislead the public by misquoting the owners of care homes to imply more accuracy than was given.
    The ONS figures are much the most useful because they give a benchmark against normality and don't rely on testing or medical expertise to determine cause of death. A dead person is a dead person and easily counted.

    What the ONS figures tell us is that roughly twice as many "excess" people died in the most recent week for which we have data as were recorded for Covid-19 for the daily deaths in hospital from Covid-19 in that week at the time. It is reasonable to attribute that excess to Covid-19 in the absence of any other obvious explanation.

    For the moment, doubling the cumulative deaths in hospital from Covid-19 announced by the DHSC seems a reasonable rule of thumb.
    Agreed as long as attribution to Covid 19 includes unintended consequences from the lockdown. Suicides are reportedly up, people are avoiding the health system and life in solitary isolation for the elderly may see life end sooner than one would normally expect.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958

    Paging my fellow New Order fans.



    New Order's Manchester International Festival show is being streamed for free this weekend

    The event is part of a new MIF LIVE programme of free online shows and talks


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/whats-on/music-nightlife-news/manchester-international-festival-streaming-free-18088568

    Ta!!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,451
    IshmaelZ said:

    eristdoof said:

    Fake news. They said from confirmed or suspected Covid 19. Given they say there is not much testing, and most hospital tests for suspected Covid 19 are negative, the numbers of actual Covid 19 from those 521 will be a lot lower.

    There will be other deaths caused by Covid 19 that were neither confirmed or suspected as such. So we dont have exact numbers of deaths and the care homes did not say we did.

    Poor journalism yet again.
    So do you think it is just a coincidence that there are news stories doing the rounds about high proportions of care-home deaths over the weekend/last week is happening at the same time as a pandemic outbreak which is particulalty fatal for elderly people? I suppose it could be "just flu"
    No its not a coincidence, of course care homes are being hit and hit hard. They should have had more resources pre-virus and suffered from being behind the rest of the health service in terms of the initial govt (and press for that matter) response.

    I just prefer people being careful and clear when quoting numbers. Given most tests are to people with symptoms and most turn out negative, it is pretty likely that most of the suspected covid 19 deaths were not covid 19 related. With not much testing in care homes its possible the real numbers from that 521 sample are half what the tweet says.

    And for balance I pointed out that wasnt the whole picture, that on the opposite side, there were other deaths that are covid 19 related that were neither confirmed nor suspected.

    I dont know the point of the just flu comment.
    No, no, no. Most symptoms of Covid 19 are also symptoms of other things like colds and hay fever. One symptom- that of dying- is highly diagnostic of Covid19 as against most of those alternatives. So It is fallacious nonsense to say "Given most tests are to people with symptoms and most turn out negative, it is pretty likely that most of the suspected covid 19 deaths were not covid 19 related."
    Median life expectancy in a nursing home is about 5 months, for them colds can and do kill as well.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    isam said:


    ...
    For the moment, doubling the cumulative deaths in hospital from Covid-19 announced by the DHSC seems a reasonable rule of thumb.

    Yes, which is not a surprise, and is broadly compatible with what the figures for other countries have shown.
    Doubling the amount for 80+ year olds I'd say. So a 50% increase
    With the caveat that so far we have only very limited data (basically only one week of the full impact beginning to be seen). And of course some of those deaths have probably been 'brought forward' by a relatively short period, i.e. the victims would have died not much later without Covid-19.

    That however may be less the case in the next few weeks, because we are at the end of the season of elevated seasonal mortality, and so someone who would have survived until (say) at least the end of April were it not for Covid-19, and who is very vulnerable to flu or other such diseases, might well have then gone on to survive until the next danger period next winter.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    but sadly not in Scotland. It runs that deep.

    And is fuelled from the very top.

    A simple con trick played on the citizens of Scotland - unfortunately enough of them lap up this nonsense - for now.


  • Paging my fellow New Order fans.



    New Order's Manchester International Festival show is being streamed for free this weekend

    The event is part of a new MIF LIVE programme of free online shows and talks


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/whats-on/music-nightlife-news/manchester-international-festival-streaming-free-18088568

    Ta!!
    I’m posting nothing but musical gold today.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,138

    Carnyx said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    The whole thing is sickening and has inevitably been blown up by The National (or "McPravda" as it is unaffectionately known.)

    The idea that the UK Govt or "the English" are deliberately discriminating against the poor beleaguered Scots is, of course, nonsense but feeds straight into the grievance narrative which seems to be so important to some strains of Scottish nationalism. It is completely contemptible but sadly it is a political fact of life that we have to deal with.
    We don't know the facts so your reaction is premature.

    There does seem to have been a very serious cockup, to put the best face on things. It's one thing to say sorry, we're chokka, but quite another to think one is forbidden even to talk to Scottish and Welsh customers. It's clear that four companies are now refusing to supply Scottish and Welsh customers and one of them has said it is directly due to Public Health England who have imposed restrictions. And the care homes industry body is the one which raised it, as it is causing care homes serious problems. .


    No, my reaction as per National treatment of story, is not premature. The Chief Clinical Officer, Jason Leitch, has been categorical that the reporting is mince.

    https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/scotland/claim-england-has-priority-on-ppe-is-rubbish-scotlands-clinical-chief-says/

    It's been a deliberate attempt to play to the old grievance hymn sheet. Contemptible.
    Oh, so the Times is pro-indy, is it?

    As reported, Dr Leitch didn't say the reporting is mince. What he did say is that NHS England and English care homes did not have priority on personal protective equipment.

    But that is not what the companies were evidently given to understand, presumably by PHE, especially given the pretty specific statement on Gomperts' corporate website.

    What I'm wondering if this is to do with the occasion a couple of weeks back which raised eyebrows when PHE demanded the sole right to deal with certain health service suppliers for all of the UK, elbowing its Scots and Welsh opposite numbers aside despite their existing involvement, on the grounds of improved efficiency. So it's not great if inj fact they mioghjt have messed up.

    We'll have to see wat comes out, but it was the care homes (and journalists) that raised it - not the Scottish government or Dr Leitch who seem to have tried to lower the temperature, quite rightly.
  • Traitor McNichol +30 seats
    Loyal Formby -60 seats

    Yup. You can see how results improved after the traitors were removed and loyalists put in.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    isam said:

    One of my favourites too. Bligh was the good guy as it turned out.
    Yeah, he was just unlucky to be the subject of not one, not two, but three mutinies during his career. To be fair, the second was part of the wider Nore Mutiny, but the third saw him being ousted by force as Governor of New South Wales, with the Marine officer responsible suffering nothing worse than being cashiered.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Moth du Jour: Ruby Tiger


  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    Socky said:

    The saddest thing about this Scotland v England PPE story is that many SNP supporters will actually believe it.

    Though there has been appropriate criticism of Labour's recent racism problems, anti-English racism has rather got a pass from the media.
    Thank goodness anti Scottish racism has been shown up to be the fantasy that it is.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,138

    Moth du Jour: Ruby Tiger


    Just to say many thanks for the lepidoptera - a much appreciated treat in those times.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748

    Carnyx said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    The whole thing is sickening and has inevitably been blown up by The National (or "McPravda" as it is unaffectionately known.)

    The idea that the UK Govt or "the English" are deliberately discriminating against the poor beleaguered Scots is, of course, nonsense but feeds straight into the grievance narrative which seems to be so important to some strains of Scottish nationalism. It is completely contemptible but sadly it is a political fact of life that we have to deal with.
    We don't know the facts so your reaction is premature.

    There does seem to have been a very serious cockup, to put the best face on things. It's one thing to say sorry, we're chokka, but quite another to think one is forbidden even to talk to Scottish and Welsh customers. It's clear that four companies are now refusing to supply Scottish and Welsh customers and one of them has said it is directly due to Public Health England who have imposed restrictions. And the care homes industry body is the one which raised it, as it is causing care homes serious problems. .


    No, my reaction as per National treatment of story, is not premature. The Chief Clinical Officer, Jason Leitch, has been categorical that the reporting is mince.

    https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/scotland/claim-england-has-priority-on-ppe-is-rubbish-scotlands-clinical-chief-says/

    It's been a deliberate attempt to play to the old grievance hymn sheet. Contemptible.
    I'm not sure that anyone on a site on which various parties started screeching about Sturgeon playing politics because she had the temerity to announce a Scottish government policy on a matter before BJ and his pals did can afford to get too sanctimonious. The fact that the same parties were crowing an hour later because BJ had 'slapped' her down by suggesting Scottish services were less resilient than the UK's shows what a bunch of fcuking hypocrites they were.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,043
    felix said:

    So it's my birthday today .. read on if you need light relief:

    Ate an apple and lost a filling. Went to dentist - closed because of the lockdown. Rang number and can only get antibiotics if the pain gets bad. Came back to the car - flat tyre. Emergency people take me to garage in Las Norias - 2 day wait and nearly €200 for a new one. Back home and it just started raining - I live in the sunniest and driest region in Europe. One hour later vomited up breakfast. WTF! Almost as unbelievable as the idea a deadly virus could paralyse the world in a few months.

    You are definitely due some damn good luck!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,543

    The saddest thing about this Scotland v England PPE story is that many SNP supporters will actually believe it. Otherwise intelligent people will actually believe that some handrubbing version of Edward longshanks really has asked a company with a contract to cover the whole of the UK to 'prioritise England hahahahahah', because of a supposed genuine antipathy to all Scottish people and conversely a genuine liking for English people that is just as quaintly unlikely. Plenty of callous, elitist politicians and civil servants exist in Westminster, but the idea that these people especially favour the incontinence pad wearers of Dudley over those of Dundee would be laughed at by anyone in England, but sadly not in Scotland. It runs that deep.

    Depends what the claim is. If it's that UK PPE suppliers are refusing to sell stuff to Scottish care homes because it is all being reserved to Public Health England for supply to English care homes, there are several website screenshots and recorded conversations showing such. If the claim is that the UK government ordered this stuff to be reserved to England, there is no evidence of that. PHE claim there is no discrimination but that statement appears not to match the evidence.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    felix said:

    So it's my birthday today .. read on if you need light relief:

    Ate an apple and lost a filling. Went to dentist - closed because of the lockdown. Rang number and can only get antibiotics if the pain gets bad. Came back to the car - flat tyre. Emergency people take me to garage in Las Norias - 2 day wait and nearly €200 for a new one. Back home and it just started raining - I live in the sunniest and driest region in Europe. One hour later vomited up breakfast. WTF! Almost as unbelievable as the idea a deadly virus could paralyse the world in a few months.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjD3EVC1-zU
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Felix, I hope your next birthday is altogether better.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    FF43 said:

    The saddest thing about this Scotland v England PPE story is that many SNP supporters will actually believe it. Otherwise intelligent people will actually believe that some handrubbing version of Edward longshanks really has asked a company with a contract to cover the whole of the UK to 'prioritise England hahahahahah', because of a supposed genuine antipathy to all Scottish people and conversely a genuine liking for English people that is just as quaintly unlikely. Plenty of callous, elitist politicians and civil servants exist in Westminster, but the idea that these people especially favour the incontinence pad wearers of Dudley over those of Dundee would be laughed at by anyone in England, but sadly not in Scotland. It runs that deep.

    Depends what the claim is. If it's that UK PPE suppliers are refusing to sell stuff to Scottish care homes because it is all being reserved to Public Health England for supply to English care homes, there are several website screenshots and recorded conversations showing such. If the claim is that the UK government ordered this stuff to be reserved to England, there is no evidence of that. PHE claim there is no discrimination but that statement appears not to match the evidence.
    Or it could be that PHE has a contract with that supplier, while NHS Scotland has contracts with other suppliers?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    They aren't underreported. He's just not looking at the right figures.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    HYUFD said:

    According to the latest Gallup at the end of last month, Trump is on 49% approval, at the same stage of his presidency in 2012 Obama was on 46%.

    So Trump is still certainly not beaten yet

    https://news.gallup.com/interactives/185273/r.aspx

    Agreed that Trump is not beaten, and that the Dems do not have the best candidate to beat him. But Trump's approval should be markedly better currently given he is the incumbent mid-crisis. That he has received almost no crisis bounce in his approvals bodes really badly for him
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    eristdoof said:

    Fake news. They said from confirmed or suspected Covid 19. Given they say there is not much testing, and most hospital tests for suspected Covid 19 are negative, the numbers of actual Covid 19 from those 521 will be a lot lower.

    There will be other deaths caused by Covid 19 that were neither confirmed or suspected as such. So we dont have exact numbers of deaths and the care homes did not say we did.

    Poor journalism yet again.
    So do you think it is just a coincidence that there are news stories doing the rounds about high proportions of care-home deaths over the weekend/last week is happening at the same time as a pandemic outbreak which is particulalty fatal for elderly people? I suppose it could be "just flu"
    No its not a coincidence, of course care homes are being hit and hit hard. They should have had more resources pre-virus and suffered from being behind the rest of the health service in terms of the initial govt (and press for that matter) response.

    I just prefer people being careful and clear when quoting numbers. Given most tests are to people with symptoms and most turn out negative, it is pretty likely that most of the suspected covid 19 deaths were not covid 19 related. With not much testing in care homes its possible the real numbers from that 521 sample are half what the tweet says.

    And for balance I pointed out that wasnt the whole picture, that on the opposite side, there were other deaths that are covid 19 related that were neither confirmed nor suspected.

    I dont know the point of the just flu comment.
    No, no, no. Most symptoms of Covid 19 are also symptoms of other things like colds and hay fever. One symptom- that of dying- is highly diagnostic of Covid19 as against most of those alternatives. So It is fallacious nonsense to say "Given most tests are to people with symptoms and most turn out negative, it is pretty likely that most of the suspected covid 19 deaths were not covid 19 related."
    Median life expectancy in a nursing home is about 5 months, for them colds can and do kill as well.
    Its over 2 years: numerous sources including

    https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2017-09-05/8937

    Even if it weren't it would be irrelevant. COVID 19 is more deadly than the common cold.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    TGOHF666 said:

    but sadly not in Scotland. It runs that deep.

    And is fuelled from the very top.

    A simple con trick played on the citizens of Scotland - unfortunately enough of them lap up this nonsense - for now.


    The very top? You don't mean...El Papa?!

    I though he'd be too busy putting the strong arm on the SPFL.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,543

    FF43 said:

    The saddest thing about this Scotland v England PPE story is that many SNP supporters will actually believe it. Otherwise intelligent people will actually believe that some handrubbing version of Edward longshanks really has asked a company with a contract to cover the whole of the UK to 'prioritise England hahahahahah', because of a supposed genuine antipathy to all Scottish people and conversely a genuine liking for English people that is just as quaintly unlikely. Plenty of callous, elitist politicians and civil servants exist in Westminster, but the idea that these people especially favour the incontinence pad wearers of Dudley over those of Dundee would be laughed at by anyone in England, but sadly not in Scotland. It runs that deep.

    Depends what the claim is. If it's that UK PPE suppliers are refusing to sell stuff to Scottish care homes because it is all being reserved to Public Health England for supply to English care homes, there are several website screenshots and recorded conversations showing such. If the claim is that the UK government ordered this stuff to be reserved to England, there is no evidence of that. PHE claim there is no discrimination but that statement appears not to match the evidence.
    Or it could be that PHE has a contract with that supplier, while NHS Scotland has contracts with other suppliers?
    It's possible. Point is, the claim that PPE suppliers are refusing to supply Scottish care homes on the direction of Public Health England appears to be correct. If there is a valid reason for this, and there may be, it would be a good idea for someone to clarify.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,722

    Traitor McNichol +30 seats
    Loyal Formby -60 seats

    Yup. You can see how results improved after the traitors were removed and loyalists put in.
    McNichol like you! wanted Corbyn to lose in 2017.

    Are you not furious that Anti Semitism wasn't prioritized and AS on the right were let off because they were on the correct side of the party?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,043

    Traitor McNichol +30 seats
    Loyal Formby -60 seats

    Yup. You can see how results improved after the traitors were removed and loyalists put in.
    McNichol like you! wanted Corbyn to lose in 2017.

    Are you not furious that Anti Semitism wasn't prioritized and AS on the right were let off because they were on the correct side of the party?
    Rochdale Pioneers appears to be in full CRUSH THE SABOTEURS mood today*

    *Not those saboteurs. The other ones.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    kinabalu said:

    felix said:

    So it's my birthday today .. read on if you need light relief:

    Ate an apple and lost a filling. Went to dentist - closed because of the lockdown. Rang number and can only get antibiotics if the pain gets bad. Came back to the car - flat tyre. Emergency people take me to garage in Las Norias - 2 day wait and nearly €200 for a new one. Back home and it just started raining - I live in the sunniest and driest region in Europe. One hour later vomited up breakfast. WTF! Almost as unbelievable as the idea a deadly virus could paralyse the world in a few months.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjD3EVC1-zU
    All my FB friends offered was D-ream so this is an improvement :smiley:
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,722
    Sunak the Socialist Chancellor up next.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Traitor McNichol +30 seats
    Loyal Formby -60 seats

    Yup. You can see how results improved after the traitors were removed and loyalists put in.
    McNichol like you! wanted Corbyn to lose in 2017.

    Are you not furious that Anti Semitism wasn't prioritized and AS on the right were let off because they were on the correct side of the party?
    From my not entirely neutral perspective I think Labaour should go full on with judge led public inquiries 24/7 and 365/12. Call the British people back in..say 2120?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009

    Has the government released any results from the Porton Down testing? I can't find any, and I was hoping by now that it would provide a good guide to the general rate of infection in the country.

    The article that was posted here said they would be doing it "in the coming months", so I'm not holding my breath.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    RobD said:

    They aren't underreported. He's just not looking at the right figures.
    So you’re saying the government is deliberately highlighting misleading figures?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    felix said:

    All my FB friends offered was D-ream so this is an improvement :smiley:

    That is synonymous with Labour landslide. Wouldn't do that to you on your birthday.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    RobD said:

    They aren't underreported. He's just not looking at the right figures.
    Or perhaps, like Priti Patel, looking at the right figures, but not necessarily in the right order.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,605

    Fake news. They said from confirmed or suspected Covid 19. Given they say there is not much testing, and most hospital tests for suspected Covid 19 are negative, the numbers of actual Covid 19 from those 521 will be a lot lower.

    There will be other deaths caused by Covid 19 that were neither confirmed or suspected as such. So we dont have exact numbers of deaths and the care homes did not say we did.

    Poor journalism yet again.
    I expect the number will be far higher than 521 in reality:

    https://www.ft.com/content/99220450-b0f2-4779-a768-90d199d1348c?desktop=true&segmentId=d8d3e364-5197-20eb-17cf-2437841d178a
    I have no idea in those two care homes, but yes the thrust of there are more people generally dying than the hospital numbers is of course correct.

    The way it is presented is very frustrating though. The wider ONS numbers have always been available, just with a delay. Sky are reporting them as though its govt numbers vs ONS numbers - when clearly the ONS is part of the govt. Hospital numbers are particularly relevant as a key govt objective is to stop the NHS breaking - it doesnt make other deaths less sad, but in terms of managing the crisis NHS capacity is key.

    And if people go out of their way to criticise the CMO and CSO for misleading the public by using NHS figures (when that is all they have ever said they were), then don't mislead the public by misquoting the owners of care homes to imply more accuracy than was given.
    The ONS figures are much the most useful because they give a benchmark against normality and don't rely on testing or medical expertise to determine cause of death. A dead person is a dead person and easily counted.

    What the ONS figures tell us is that roughly twice as many "excess" people died in the most recent week for which we have data as were recorded for Covid-19 for the daily deaths in hospital from Covid-19 in that week at the time. It is reasonable to attribute that excess to Covid-19 in the absence of any other obvious explanation.

    For the moment, doubling the cumulative deaths in hospital from Covid-19 announced by the DHSC seems a reasonable rule of thumb.
    Agreed as long as attribution to Covid 19 includes unintended consequences from the lockdown. Suicides are reportedly up, people are avoiding the health system and life in solitary isolation for the elderly may see life end sooner than one would normally expect.
    Well quite. And the longer this goes on the more these ‘unintended consequences’ will ramp up. Walked past a block of council flats the other day. 24c outside, heard families chattering, cooped up inside. Thought, “these people are going to be literally driven mad by this thing”. Then went home to my garden for a barbecue, along with tens of thousands of other lucky buggers.

    Getting sick of my middle class cohort luxuriating over the prospects of an extended lockdown.

    @isam fpt is probably right that a demographic relaxation will have to be introduced at some point. Let the young and fit out by mid-May...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    TimT said:

    Agreed that Trump is not beaten, and that the Dems do not have the best candidate to beat him. But Trump's approval should be markedly better currently given he is the incumbent mid-crisis. That he has received almost no crisis bounce in his approvals bodes really badly for him

    And it's bugging him something terrible. He's really chasing it now. I predict implosion.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    https://twitter.com/RibelleGS/status/1250089293084794880

    Getting Trump out of the Oval Office if he loses is going to push the US to the very brink.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,730

    isam said:

    One of my favourites too. Bligh was the good guy as it turned out.
    Yes, but not in the movie versions......
    At the end of the Trevor Howard and Anthony Hopkins ones he is exonerated isn't he? Def Hopkins, Howard is cleared but reprimanded I think, they say they should have chosen a gentleman
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    kinabalu said:

    TimT said:

    Agreed that Trump is not beaten, and that the Dems do not have the best candidate to beat him. But Trump's approval should be markedly better currently given he is the incumbent mid-crisis. That he has received almost no crisis bounce in his approvals bodes really badly for him

    And it's bugging him something terrible. He's really chasing it now. I predict implosion.
    Steve Bannon predicted that it would not end well with Trump. It would end very badly.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,543
    kinabalu said:

    TimT said:

    Agreed that Trump is not beaten, and that the Dems do not have the best candidate to beat him. But Trump's approval should be markedly better currently given he is the incumbent mid-crisis. That he has received almost no crisis bounce in his approvals bodes really badly for him

    And it's bugging him something terrible. He's really chasing it now. I predict implosion.
    If you are an incumbent, you point to your record. "I have been busy delivering prosperity and security to my fellow Americans. What's that guy done?" Right now pointing to his record is the last thing Trump wants to do.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001
    edited April 2020
    Reports today that bbc radio channels, including radio 4 today and 5 live, are losing listeners to classical music channels as they tire of the constant doom and gloom and negative reporting of covid 19

  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    FF43 said:

    The saddest thing about this Scotland v England PPE story is that many SNP supporters will actually believe it. Otherwise intelligent people will actually believe that some handrubbing version of Edward longshanks really has asked a company with a contract to cover the whole of the UK to 'prioritise England hahahahahah', because of a supposed genuine antipathy to all Scottish people and conversely a genuine liking for English people that is just as quaintly unlikely. Plenty of callous, elitist politicians and civil servants exist in Westminster, but the idea that these people especially favour the incontinence pad wearers of Dudley over those of Dundee would be laughed at by anyone in England, but sadly not in Scotland. It runs that deep.

    Depends what the claim is. If it's that UK PPE suppliers are refusing to sell stuff to Scottish care homes because it is all being reserved to Public Health England for supply to English care homes, there are several website screenshots and recorded conversations showing such. If the claim is that the UK government ordered this stuff to be reserved to England, there is no evidence of that. PHE claim there is no discrimination but that statement appears not to match the evidence.
    Moaning faced woman at butchers complains that customer that got up earlier got the best steak...

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,722

    Reports today that bbc radio channels including 5 live are losing listeners to classical music channels as they tire of the constant doom and gloom and negative reporting of covid 19

    I can understand that
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    Reports today that bbc radio channels including 5 live are losing listeners to classical music channels as they tire of the constant doom and gloom and negative reporting of covid 19

    Who can blame them.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Traitor McNichol +30 seats
    Loyal Formby -60 seats

    Yup. You can see how results improved after the traitors were removed and loyalists put in.
    McNichol like you! wanted Corbyn to lose in 2017.
    Why did he do such a bloody bad job of it, then? :wink:

  • eristdoof said:

    Trump sees Cpt. Bligh as a role model?
    Bligh is quite an interesting role model for Trump.

    I think the current historical appraisal is that Bligh was not the appalling bastard that he was painted as being in the earlier accounts. What he was is hot-tempered and incredibly inconsistent. So he'd turn a blind eye to his crew sleeping around with natives, but then fly into a rage when they picked up STDs. It isn't that he was very strict, just that it was never clear where the line was and how near crew members were to crossing it.

    Similarly with Trump. Some attack him for extremism, but his bigger trait is capriciousness. Opponents, colleagues, other world leaders - nobody can reliably predict him one day, and sometimes one moment, to the next. Sometimes he's very accommodating, sometimes he's absolutely intransigent. Sometimes he appears genuinely warm, sometimes publicly hostile. And so on. Now whether that's a feature or a bug is a matter for debate - I think the latter, but can see how it might work in some situations.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    McNichol like you! wanted Corbyn to lose in 2017.

    Are you not furious that Anti Semitism wasn't prioritized and AS on the right were let off because they were on the correct side of the party?

    I knew that some people in Labour were secretly rooting for a big electoral defeat in 2017 and were disappointed it didn't happen. That was kind of understandable. It's human nature to want to be proved right. But the evidence that it went further, that they actively worked against the party, this I found a bit shocking. No chance going forward unless there's an end to factionalism on both sides.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,543
    TGOHF666 said:

    FF43 said:

    The saddest thing about this Scotland v England PPE story is that many SNP supporters will actually believe it. Otherwise intelligent people will actually believe that some handrubbing version of Edward longshanks really has asked a company with a contract to cover the whole of the UK to 'prioritise England hahahahahah', because of a supposed genuine antipathy to all Scottish people and conversely a genuine liking for English people that is just as quaintly unlikely. Plenty of callous, elitist politicians and civil servants exist in Westminster, but the idea that these people especially favour the incontinence pad wearers of Dudley over those of Dundee would be laughed at by anyone in England, but sadly not in Scotland. It runs that deep.

    Depends what the claim is. If it's that UK PPE suppliers are refusing to sell stuff to Scottish care homes because it is all being reserved to Public Health England for supply to English care homes, there are several website screenshots and recorded conversations showing such. If the claim is that the UK government ordered this stuff to be reserved to England, there is no evidence of that. PHE claim there is no discrimination but that statement appears not to match the evidence.
    Moaning faced woman at butchers complains that customer that got up earlier got the best steak...

    The moaning faced woman complains that the butcher won't sell her the steak on the counter because she is Scottish.

    Let's at least get an accurate metaphor.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    Reports today that bbc radio channels, including radio 4 today and 5 live, are losing listeners to classical music channels as they tire of the constant doom and gloom and negative reporting of covid 19

    Radio 5 without sport is like a vegan mixed grill.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164

    Reports today that bbc radio channels, including radio 4 today and 5 live, are losing listeners to classical music channels as they tire of the constant doom and gloom and negative reporting of covid 19

    I’ve stopped watching the news. It no longer does what it says on the tin.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835

    eristdoof said:

    Trump sees Cpt. Bligh as a role model?
    Bligh is quite an interesting role model for Trump.

    I think the current historical appraisal is that Bligh was not the appalling bastard that he was painted as being in the earlier accounts. What he was is hot-tempered and incredibly inconsistent. So he'd turn a blind eye to his crew sleeping around with natives, but then fly into a rage when they picked up STDs. It isn't that he was very strict, just that it was never clear where the line was and how near crew members were to crossing it.

    Similarly with Trump. Some attack him for extremism, but his bigger trait is capriciousness. Opponents, colleagues, other world leaders - nobody can reliably predict him one day, and sometimes one moment, to the next. Sometimes he's very accommodating, sometimes he's absolutely intransigent. Sometimes he appears genuinely warm, sometimes publicly hostile. And so on. Now whether that's a feature or a bug is a matter for debate - I think the latter, but can see how it might work in some situations.
    Good leaders set clear boundaries and expectations. They can be lax or severe.But folk need to know what they are and what the purpose of them is.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    felix said:

    So it's my birthday today .. read on if you need light relief:

    Ate an apple and lost a filling. Went to dentist - closed because of the lockdown. Rang number and can only get antibiotics if the pain gets bad. Came back to the car - flat tyre. Emergency people take me to garage in Las Norias - 2 day wait and nearly €200 for a new one. Back home and it just started raining - I live in the sunniest and driest region in Europe. One hour later vomited up breakfast. WTF! Almost as unbelievable as the idea a deadly virus could paralyse the world in a few months.

    Happy birthday, felix! Best of luck with bending the odds of probability in your favour from now on!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Reports today that bbc radio channels, including radio 4 today and 5 live, are losing listeners to classical music channels as they tire of the constant doom and gloom and negative reporting of covid 19

    It's not just the wall-to-wall whingeing, (although that is bad enough) it's the sheer inanity and repetitiveness of the BBC coverage. To cap it all, you don't actually get much news.
This discussion has been closed.