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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris is back but there’ll be no premature move to ease the lo

SystemSystem Posts: 11,682
edited April 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris is back but there’ll be no premature move to ease the lockdown

This morning's @standardnews cartoon pic.twitter.com/TfhyDGveoa

Read the full story here


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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    329 new deaths in England.

    Very few historic deaths in todays numbers, does also look like weekend effect as past 3 days are... 50, 162, 58

    Awaiting Prof cricket to do his thing.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2020
    So today's presser questions...

    When is the lockdown to be lifted?
    Why isn't it been lifted?
    But we only had 300 deaths the past few days, surely we should be lifting the lockdown?
    If we are past peak, surely we can allow people more freedom under the lockdown rules?
    ....

    And finally we go to Maureen from Margate....my neighbour 3 doors down, Tracey, lovely lass, single mum with 3 kids, her ex-Dave, total bastard he was, she says that you can cure this by using a sunbed, why isn't the government providing free sunbed sessions for everybody?
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    FPT -
    For anyone interested - https://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/covid-19?mc_cid=cde0b857f2&mc_eid=703bb9e6b8.

    You can hear from the Chief Scientist himself. Live-streamed naturally.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Cyclefree said:

    FPT -
    For anyone interested - https://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/covid-19?mc_cid=cde0b857f2&mc_eid=703bb9e6b8.

    You can hear from the Chief Scientist himself. Live-streamed naturally.

    I watched his 2018/19 one on infectious diseases recently - engaging and with some very relevant parallels to COVID.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    Not only does there have to be a consistent fall in cases and the death rate but also the Government has said a clear rise in testing before the lockdown can be eased
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,335
    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    The downward trend in death IS a function of the lockdown. If the lockdown is eliminated, back up Rt shoots - unless you have some other method of containing it.
    That's what the track and trace is being developed for, but we're not there yet.
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    DensparkDenspark Posts: 68

    329 new deaths in England.

    Very few historic deaths in todays numbers, does also look like weekend effect as past 3 days are... 50, 162, 58

    Awaiting Prof cricket to do his thing.

    even allowing for weekend effect, those numbers are down on last monday by 25% and 50% on monday before that.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.

    I believe he does a funny about as often as there are 29 days in February.
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Latest:

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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Denspark said:

    329 new deaths in England.

    Very few historic deaths in todays numbers, does also look like weekend effect as past 3 days are... 50, 162, 58

    Awaiting Prof cricket to do his thing.

    even allowing for weekend effect, those numbers are down on last monday by 25% and 50% on monday before that.
    Yes definitely heading in the right direction, but given the government are going to miss their 100k a day testing target, I fear that is all we are going to be hearing about for the next week.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,200
    "A fit Boris, surely, would have stopped such an announcement being made. It appears a massive hostage to fortune."

    Because he is not a man to make rash promises in public?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Denspark said:

    329 new deaths in England.

    Very few historic deaths in todays numbers, does also look like weekend effect as past 3 days are... 50, 162, 58

    Awaiting Prof cricket to do his thing.

    even allowing for weekend effect, those numbers are down on last monday by 25% and 50% on monday before that.
    Yes definitely heading in the right direction, but given the government are going to miss their 100k a day testing target, I fear that is all we are going to be hearing about for the next week.
    Journalists seem to be a massively impatient bunch. I think we'll hit 100k tests perhaps a fortnight into May, as the GOv't have said this is a marathon not a sprint.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,200
    TOPPING said:

    I think many of the people lambasting "journalists" on here and elsewhere will and should be embarrassed at their willingness to try to find a scapegoat or dog to kick.

    They may well be scared shitless and unwilling to question and challenge the government during this unprecedented time but that is exactly what journalists are there to do and thank goodness they are.

    And as for the asinine questions people think journalists are asking, and I know @Nigelb has done this already, why don't you go ahead and submit a question for this evening. And if the damning, gotcha, ten paragraph expose is not read out, you can ask yourselves why that should have been.

    There does seem to be a lot of holding Robert Peston to account rather than those taking the decisions. Unusual.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,300
    Pulpstar said:

    The downward trend in death IS a function of the lockdown. If the lockdown is eliminated, back up Rt shoots - unless you have some other method of containing it.
    That's what the track and trace is being developed for, but we're not there yet.

    https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/man-self-diagnoses-as-expert-epidemiologist-20200415195502

    Uncanny.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    Mike says "Given his own personal experience of the virus then it is no surprise that the PM is going to be ultra cautious. "

    I disagree - it would be most surprising if Johnson were to allow the emotion of his personal experience to influence policy-making, and I don`t think that he will. I would think less of him if he were to do so.

    We need rationality not emotion.
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,153
    Andrew said:

    Latest:

    Looks promising.

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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,300
    HYUFD said:

    Not only does there have to be a consistent fall in cases and the death rate but also the Government has said a clear rise in testing before the lockdown can be eased

    So the question is who will the public blame for the lack of PPE.
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    kamskikamski Posts: 4,253
    Between people saying the government never said "public confidence in the media has collapsed", and others saying that the government has never said in the daily briefings "we have been making the right decisions at the right time" (and that's just replies to the couple of posts I made here today), there already seems to be a lot of gaslighting going on. Expect a lot more of this in the coming months.

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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,300
    kinabalu said:

    "A fit Boris, surely, would have stopped such an announcement being made. It appears a massive hostage to fortune."

    Because he is not a man to make rash promises in public?

    Genuine LOL.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Updated graphs:





    Just sticking all of the data into GCP and coming up with a script that will do it for me in the future.
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    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347

    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.

    I believe he does a funny about as often as there are 29 days in February.
    I think the Government have to change the idea that you can only go for a test if you have symptoms of Covid-19.
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Another good one, includes rest of UK figures per day, and also all covid-registered deaths outside hospital:

    https://twitter.com/jpscott1972/status/1254763191013384192/photo/1
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,601

    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.

    I believe he does a funny about as often as there are 29 days in February.
    Well they do say that the art of humour lies in the element of surprise...
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Pulpstar said:

    Denspark said:

    329 new deaths in England.

    Very few historic deaths in todays numbers, does also look like weekend effect as past 3 days are... 50, 162, 58

    Awaiting Prof cricket to do his thing.

    even allowing for weekend effect, those numbers are down on last monday by 25% and 50% on monday before that.
    Yes definitely heading in the right direction, but given the government are going to miss their 100k a day testing target, I fear that is all we are going to be hearing about for the next week.
    Journalists seem to be a massively impatient bunch. I think we'll hit 100k tests perhaps a fortnight into May, as the GOv't have said this is a marathon not a sprint.
    Hancock made this pledge. I think it was very silly, as it seems a number just plucked out of thin air, mostly likely influenced by reports of what Germany was capable of doing.

    We need to test the right people quickly. That is the most crucial thing.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.

    I believe he does a funny about as often as there are 29 days in February.
    I think the Government have to change the idea that you can only go for a test if you have symptoms of Covid-19.
    The tests dont work if you havent, do they?
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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Just 1,137 tests performed yesterday in Scotland.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.

    I believe he does a funny about as often as there are 29 days in February.
    I think the Government have to change the idea that you can only go for a test if you have symptoms of Covid-19.
    Not yet, not the capacity for that yet.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,714

    So today's presser questions...

    When is the lockdown to be lifted?
    Why isn't it been lifted?
    But we only had 300 deaths the past few days, surely we should be lifting the lockdown?
    If we are past peak, surely we can allow people more freedom under the lockdown rules?
    ....

    Very good questions. In general there is no such thing as a stupid question; only stupid answers.

    Our in this case, no answers.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2020
    TGOHF666 said:

    Just 1,137 tests performed yesterday in Scotland.

    Wales are also really struggling to expand the number of tests. They have quietly dropped their own target of 5,000 a day.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,200
    Stocky said:

    Mike says "Given his own personal experience of the virus then it is no surprise that the PM is going to be ultra cautious. "

    I disagree - it would be most surprising if Johnson were to allow the emotion of his personal experience to influence policy-making, and I don`t think that he will. I would think less of him if he were to do so.

    We need rationality not emotion.

    I think it is cold political calculus driving him. He judges that the one outcome which will inflict enormous damage - on HIM - is if the UK ends up with by far the worst Covid-19 death toll in Europe. His decisions around lockdown will be dictated by this political assessment. An accurate assessment IMO.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    TGOHF666 said:

    Just 1,137 tests performed yesterday in Scotland.

    Wales are also really struggling to expand the number of tests. They have quietly dropped their own target of 5,000 a day.
    1137 tests is piss poor for Scotland, they should be around 8% of the entire UK.
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,897

    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.

    I believe he does a funny about as often as there are 29 days in February.
    I think the Government have to change the idea that you can only go for a test if you have symptoms of Covid-19.
    The tests dont work if you havent, do they?
    That can't be right. If the test doesn't pick up asymptomatic cases, that means the asymptomatic cases don't spread the virus. THere has been lots of reporing about asymptomatic carriers passing on the virus.
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    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347
    Pulpstar said:

    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.

    I believe he does a funny about as often as there are 29 days in February.
    I think the Government have to change the idea that you can only go for a test if you have symptoms of Covid-19.
    Not yet, not the capacity for that yet.
    But there is not enough people who have the symptoms to get anywhere near the 100,000 a day figure.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629

    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.

    I believe he does a funny about as often as there are 29 days in February.
    I think the Government have to change the idea that you can only go for a test if you have symptoms of Covid-19.
    The tests dont work if you havent, do they?
    Well, there is one way to find out.

    Instructions from today to test admissions from any cause for COVID-19.

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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,352
    FF43 said:

    So today's presser questions...

    When is the lockdown to be lifted?
    Why isn't it been lifted?
    But we only had 300 deaths the past few days, surely we should be lifting the lockdown?
    If we are past peak, surely we can allow people more freedom under the lockdown rules?
    ....

    Very good questions. In general there is no such thing as a stupid question; only stupid answers.

    Our in this case, no answers.
    You obviously have not been listening to the daily press conference at 4 pm.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,601
    I missed this article from last week.

    GP calls for action after 125 of her care home patients die of Covid-19
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/22/without-a-plan-its-not-going-to-stop-care-homes-fear-worst-yet-to-come-covid-19
    ...“I am really angry about this,” said Dr Anna Down, scanning her computer for figures to show how coronavirus has ravaged her patients living in nursing homes.

    “One home had 23 deaths, another lost 19, and another 13,” the Ealing GP said. “In two units 50% of residents died in the space of 10 days.”

    Down is the clinical lead at a practice with 1,000 residents on its books in 15 privately run nursing homes in the area of west London hit harder than anywhere in Britain by Covid-19 deaths in the first weeks of the outbreak. In a normal month, she might expect to lose around 28 people. In the last month she has lost 125.

    Down has a warning to the rest of the country informed by her practice’s experience: reform how social care handles Covid-19 or face rising deaths and a second devastating wave of infection.

    Her anger goes beyond grief. Her early warnings to public health authorities about the risks to care residents were not acted on, she said; infected patients continue to be discharged into care homes from hospitals, spreading the virus; and staff shortages are blighting attempts to keep the virus isolated....
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    Interesting thread here on Test and Trace even when high prevalence.

    https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1254575445229441024?s=09
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,246
    Floater said:
    Cutting salaries by 20% and preserving dividends? That's a brutal skirmish in this latest chapter of the class war.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.

    I think there was a single funny one a couple of months ago. In general, though, no, he doesn't, but he's not alone in that. Steve Bell is equally unfunny, as is Peter Brookes.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    Also an interesting piece on the epidemiology of spread in a Korean call centre:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1254741387595177985?s=19

    Tracing where spread occurs is pretty vital to effective social distancing.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.

    I think there was a single funny one a couple of months ago. In general, though, no, he doesn't, but he's not alone in that. Steve Bell is equally unfunny, as is Peter Brookes.
    Matt is the only one who has far more hits than misses.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,300

    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.

    I think there was a single funny one a couple of months ago. In general, though, no, he doesn't, but he's not alone in that. Steve Bell is equally unfunny, as is Peter Brookes.
    No one, sadly, will ever be able to equal Brant.
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    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Reuters has a pretty interesting article on the US prison testing in Ohio.

    In one prison of 2,500, 2,300 were tested.

    just over 2,000 were found to be positive. That's maybe not surprising considering the cramped conditions of prisons once the virus gets going.

    The interesting bit is that 95% of the 2,000 positives had no symptoms. Yikes.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Reuters has a pretty interesting article on the US prison testing in Ohio.

    In one prison of 2,500, 2,300 were tested.

    just over 2,000 were found to be positive. That's maybe not surprising considering the cramped conditions of prisons once the virus gets going.

    The interesting bit is that 95% of the 2,000 positives had no symptoms. Yikes.

    Them gangs lads are 'ard.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    Foxy said:

    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.

    I believe he does a funny about as often as there are 29 days in February.
    I think the Government have to change the idea that you can only go for a test if you have symptoms of Covid-19.
    The tests dont work if you havent, do they?
    Well, there is one way to find out.

    Instructions from today to test admissions from any cause for COVID-19.

    Right

    Gradually getting there
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    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,817
    edited April 2020
    (FPT):
    Continued decreases in daily deaths figures looks promising.

    I had a play with numbers over the weekend to try to get a curve to see how the deaths (in hospitals in England) will continue to decrease. Inputs to be R0, Rt (as it varies) and a distribution of death dates (deaths don't all occur on a specific date after infection; there's a distribution of deaths concentrated into a fortnightly period, with a peak in it), so when infections are increasing, deaths caused by infections on D1 will peak some time later, and deaths from the leading of infections on, say D+4 and from the trailing edge of D-4 (and, of course, other days) will all pile up.
    Which makes the curve worse on the way up and less bad on the way down.

    It's not remotely scientific, and just a way for me to visualise for myself how changing Rt numbers affect the curve. What Rt numbers would I need to plug in to get the curve to more-or-less fit what has happened, and what would it project?

    I chose R0 as 3.0; Rt(1) for the week before announcement of any restrictions to be decreased from there (because transport and interactions were already diminishing), Rt(2) for the week between the announcement of "Avoid bars and restaurants, voluntary social distancing) and Rt(3) from lockdown onwards.

    I aimed for figures close-ish to the ones estimated by Imperial College and wasn't miles off.

    So - it's not imposing a "best fit line"; it's trying to tweak those Rt numbers to fit the curve. I ended up with:
    R0=3
    Rt(1)=2.1
    Rt(2)=1.3
    Rt(3)=0.75
    ... and it seemed to fit. The latest figures fit nicely without me changing the numbers (only numbers after the 5 day lag for details entered in, so April 21st is the last day on the actual figures. It remains to be seen how well they'll continue to fit, but bearing in mind that the next two or three weeks of projected decline should be already "baked in" thanks to incubation periods and time taken for the disease to progress, we should already be on target to get deaths in hospitals in England below 200 per day (before the first May Bank Holiday).

    Doesn't mean "Yay, let's release lockdown!" - it means it's working, and we may have scope to start easing some restrictions in May, if this trend continues.

    (Bear in mind that this curve could be total bollocks, of course. Just because it fits what's gone before and has done okay with two days-worth of predictions doesn't mean it's reliable. Anyone can get a curve to fit historical data - my attempt is to do so while only adjusting Rt)

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    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    They should have asked her why Scotland hasn't increased testing capacity at all in a month.

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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Floater said:
    Cutting salaries by 20% and preserving dividends? That's a brutal skirmish in this latest chapter of the class war.
    To be fair those earning below a certain figure not impacted.

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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,601
    Foxy said:

    Interesting thread here on Test and Trace even when high prevalence.

    https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1254575445229441024?s=09

    Of course.
    You might say it's like having some of the benefits of lockdown, without lockdown.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    According to research by the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine, UCL London and the Max Planck Institute for Demographic Research in Rostock, Germany, published today, the peak for coronavirus hospital deaths in England was probably passed on 8 April.

    If only somebody had pointed this out before...
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    "The spokesman said that government now has the capacity to carry out 53,000 tests per day."

    Even if we go with this spin, where are they going to magic up another 47,000 test capacity in 3-4 days?
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    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347
    Foxy said:

    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.

    I believe he does a funny about as often as there are 29 days in February.
    I think the Government have to change the idea that you can only go for a test if you have symptoms of Covid-19.
    The tests dont work if you havent, do they?
    Well, there is one way to find out.

    Instructions from today to test admissions from any cause for COVID-19.

    I think some hospitals have been doing that already
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2020
    The spokesman refused to say whether Johnson anticipated the fight against coronavirus entering a third phase after the “second phase” mentioned by the PM in his speech this morning.

    What about a fourth phase, fifth phase...FFS...it was clearly as turn of phrase to indicate that the situation is changing.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,672
    RE EU recommending excluding UK from Lugano Convention - non EU members Norway, Switzerland & Norway were supportive:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/support-for-the-uks-intent-to-accede-to-the-lugano-convention-2007
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,122
    FF43 said:

    So today's presser questions...

    When is the lockdown to be lifted?
    Why isn't it been lifted?
    But we only had 300 deaths the past few days, surely we should be lifting the lockdown?
    If we are past peak, surely we can allow people more freedom under the lockdown rules?
    ....

    Very good questions. In general there is no such thing as a stupid question; only stupid answers.

    Our in this case, no answers.
    Oh, there are certainly stupid questions alright. Have you not been watching the daily pressers? Some gems of stupidity in there.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2020

    FF43 said:

    So today's presser questions...

    When is the lockdown to be lifted?
    Why isn't it been lifted?
    But we only had 300 deaths the past few days, surely we should be lifting the lockdown?
    If we are past peak, surely we can allow people more freedom under the lockdown rules?
    ....

    Very good questions. In general there is no such thing as a stupid question; only stupid answers.

    Our in this case, no answers.
    Oh, there are certainly stupid questions alright. Have you not been watching the daily pressers? Some gems of stupidity in there.
    I can't work out if the not knowing about the ONS data is the winner in the stupidity stakes or more the types of questions asking if their daughter could have friends over for a play date.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited April 2020

    Pulpstar said:

    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.

    I believe he does a funny about as often as there are 29 days in February.
    I think the Government have to change the idea that you can only go for a test if you have symptoms of Covid-19.
    Not yet, not the capacity for that yet.
    But there is not enough people who have the symptoms to get anywhere near the 100,000 a day figure.
    We don't know yet, website still overloaded with demand. Immediate household contacts of those affected could/should be tested too.
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    kamskikamski Posts: 4,253
    Foxy said:

    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.

    I believe he does a funny about as often as there are 29 days in February.
    I think the Government have to change the idea that you can only go for a test if you have symptoms of Covid-19.
    The tests dont work if you havent, do they?
    Well, there is one way to find out.

    Instructions from today to test admissions from any cause for COVID-19.

    That would be good practice - it's been happening in local hospitals here in Germany for a while.

    But we already know you can test positive for Covid without symptoms, there's been plenty of reporting of this, and I personally know of a few cases.

    I believe that there is more chance of a false negative without (or before) symptoms, but I don't know if there are any stats on this?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,300
    edited April 2020

    FF43 said:

    So today's presser questions...

    When is the lockdown to be lifted?
    Why isn't it been lifted?
    But we only had 300 deaths the past few days, surely we should be lifting the lockdown?
    If we are past peak, surely we can allow people more freedom under the lockdown rules?
    ....

    Very good questions. In general there is no such thing as a stupid question; only stupid answers.

    Our in this case, no answers.
    Oh, there are certainly stupid questions alright. Have you not been watching the daily pressers? Some gems of stupidity in there.
    I can't work out if the not knowing about the ONS data is the winner in the stupidity stakes or more the types of questions asking if their daughter could have friends over for a play date.
    Look on the questions as channeling the broad swathe of peoples' questions. Some of whom, I hate to break this to you, don't get all the epidemiologist nuances. Some of them, apparently, don't even have PhDs.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060

    Pulpstar said:

    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.

    I believe he does a funny about as often as there are 29 days in February.
    I think the Government have to change the idea that you can only go for a test if you have symptoms of Covid-19.
    Not yet, not the capacity for that yet.
    But there is not enough people who have the symptoms to get anywhere near the 100,000 a day figure.
    If you're contact tracing, you test people who have had contact with a known case. That way you catch pre-symptomatic cases so they can be isolated.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,714

    FF43 said:

    So today's presser questions...

    When is the lockdown to be lifted?
    Why isn't it been lifted?
    But we only had 300 deaths the past few days, surely we should be lifting the lockdown?
    If we are past peak, surely we can allow people more freedom under the lockdown rules?
    ....

    Very good questions. In general there is no such thing as a stupid question; only stupid answers.

    Our in this case, no answers.
    You obviously have not been listening to the daily press conference at 4 pm.
    I don't think the UK government's communications have been good, perhaps surprisingly for a PM who is supposed to be the Great Communicator. I would suggest looking north of the border for a better way of doing this (despite the Chief Medical Officer's best attempt to sabotage the message). Nicola Sturgeon has not gone off message by an inch in her daily conferences; she has clear messages and she actually answers the questions. AFAIK no-one has complained about stupid questions.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,288
    Andrew said:

    Latest:

    Cautiously optimistic.
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    ClippPClippP Posts: 1,684
    "HealthSec Hancock is lumbered by his commitment to 100k tests a day by the end of the month. A fit Boris, surely, would have stopped such an announcement being made."

    Come off it, Mike. Boris Johnson would have committed to 200,000 tests a day, and with the same pathetic prospect of achieving his target.

    But all the PB Tories would have come out, saying "Isn´t Boris wonderful! Such a card! What fun!" etc etc. As usual.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860

    Andrew said:

    Latest:

    Cautiously optimistic.
    Like every Monday

    When we feel that way on a Wednesday or Thursday there will be true cause for it.
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    kamskikamski Posts: 4,253
    Foxy said:

    Also an interesting piece on the epidemiology of spread in a Korean call centre:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1254741387595177985?s=19

    Tracing where spread occurs is pretty vital to effective social distancing.

    I'm surprised that with their app-based contact tracing that S Korea does not have more information about where transmission is actually happening.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    FF43 said:

    So today's presser questions...

    When is the lockdown to be lifted?
    Why isn't it been lifted?
    But we only had 300 deaths the past few days, surely we should be lifting the lockdown?
    If we are past peak, surely we can allow people more freedom under the lockdown rules?
    ....

    Very good questions. In general there is no such thing as a stupid question; only stupid answers.

    Our in this case, no answers.
    You think they are good questions? Wow!
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    So what question would you put forward? As a starter - I think any question should be one sentence maximum. Statement-questions that go on and on just waste time and are hard to follow.

    Personally I'm interested in:
    "What are you doing to increase the UK's capacity to manufacture vaccine doses?"
    But I accept this may not be of wider interest.
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    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    edited April 2020

    Reuters has a pretty interesting article on the US prison testing in Ohio.

    In one prison of 2,500, 2,300 were tested.

    just over 2,000 were found to be positive. That's maybe not surprising considering the cramped conditions of prisons once the virus gets going.

    The interesting bit is that 95% of the 2,000 positives had no symptoms. Yikes.

    Them gangs lads are 'ard.
    Interesting that one of the issues the WHO is highlighting at the moment in relation to antibody tests is the high number of false positives - it seems there is high cross reactivity with the other 6 human coronaviruses (SARS and MERS - to which relatively few will have been exposed globally, and the common colds HKU1, NL63, OC43, 229E to which presumably a great number of us have been exposed.

    I cannot see in any of the reports, including on the Ohio Department of Corrections own materials, what type of testing - RT-PCR or antibody - was used. But if they have used antibody testing, it might explain the really high numbers. Ditto for the NYC, Santa Clara, and LA studies which did use antibody testing.

    PS Which has got me wondering if having been exposed to multiple colds in the past might have conferred some degree of immunity to COVID, and hence the surprisingly high level of asymptomatic and paucisymptomatic cases in those under 60.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    ClippP said:

    "HealthSec Hancock is lumbered by his commitment to 100k tests a day by the end of the month. A fit Boris, surely, would have stopped such an announcement being made."

    Come off it, Mike. Boris Johnson would have committed to 200,000 tests a day, and with the same pathetic prospect of achieving his target.

    But all the PB Tories would have come out, saying "Isn´t Boris wonderful! Such a card! What fun!" etc etc. As usual.

    I see your 200,000 and raise you 250,000

    6 weeks ago tomorrow Boris Johnson said "We're massively increasing the testing to see whether you have it now and ramping up daily testing from 5,000 a day, to 10,000 to 25,000 and then up at 250,000,"
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927

    According to research by the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine, UCL London and the Max Planck Institute for Demographic Research in Rostock, Germany, published today, the peak for coronavirus hospital deaths in England was probably passed on 8 April.

    If only somebody had pointed this out before...

    It’s still clinging on to peak status in Sweden too. 110 on 8th April, 109 on the 15th, 108 on the 16th. @alistair was right though really, and the latter two dates are probably the real peak


    https://twitter.com/cricketwyvern/status/1254747319544807425?s=21
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,536
    Gardening Corner with @Cyclefree. Today's garden question - (13), I think.

    I like hostas, as do slugs. My many clumps and pots of inherited hostas are about to break through. How do I protect them from slugs? Is it as simple as a band of eggshells on the soil (of which I have also inherited a fair quantity)?

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1254727694832590848
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    ClippP said:

    "HealthSec Hancock is lumbered by his commitment to 100k tests a day by the end of the month. A fit Boris, surely, would have stopped such an announcement being made."

    Come off it, Mike. Boris Johnson would have committed to 200,000 tests a day, and with the same pathetic prospect of achieving his target.

    But all the PB Tories would have come out, saying "Isn´t Boris wonderful! Such a card! What fun!" etc etc. As usual.

    I see your 200,000 and raise you 250,000

    6 weeks ago tomorrow Boris Johnson said "We're massively increasing the testing to see whether you have it now and ramping up daily testing from 5,000 a day, to 10,000 to 25,000 and then up at 250,000,"
    I think the plan was to have the antibody test in place, which is why they ordered quite a few of them. Turns out they were all crap.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,714
    felix said:

    FF43 said:

    So today's presser questions...

    When is the lockdown to be lifted?
    Why isn't it been lifted?
    But we only had 300 deaths the past few days, surely we should be lifting the lockdown?
    If we are past peak, surely we can allow people more freedom under the lockdown rules?
    ....

    Very good questions. In general there is no such thing as a stupid question; only stupid answers.

    Our in this case, no answers.
    You think they are good questions? Wow!
    I do. If you answer them properly no-one will think they are stupid questions. People will focus on the answers. Those questions are a gift.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629

    Reuters has a pretty interesting article on the US prison testing in Ohio.

    In one prison of 2,500, 2,300 were tested.

    just over 2,000 were found to be positive. That's maybe not surprising considering the cramped conditions of prisons once the virus gets going.

    The interesting bit is that 95% of the 2,000 positives had no symptoms. Yikes.

    Or at least not yet...

    In the Korean call centre upthread all but 2% became symptomatic within 14 days.

  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    MattW said:

    Gardening Corner with @Cyclefree. Today's garden question - (13), I think.

    I like hostas, as do slugs. My many clumps and pots of inherited hostas are about to break through. How do I protect them from slugs? Is it as simple as a band of eggshells on the soil (of which I have also inherited a fair quantity)?

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1254727694832590848

    Beer traps..
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    FF43 said:

    felix said:

    FF43 said:

    So today's presser questions...

    When is the lockdown to be lifted?
    Why isn't it been lifted?
    But we only had 300 deaths the past few days, surely we should be lifting the lockdown?
    If we are past peak, surely we can allow people more freedom under the lockdown rules?
    ....

    Very good questions. In general there is no such thing as a stupid question; only stupid answers.

    Our in this case, no answers.
    You think they are good questions? Wow!
    I do. If you answer them properly no-one will think they are stupid questions. People will focus on the answers. Those questions are a gift.
    I agree that they are good questions, and the obvious questions. Not least because the public really do want to know the answers to them and understand why lockdown needs to continue. Without understanding - and agreement - we won't get continued compliance.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    MattW said:

    Gardening Corner with @Cyclefree. Today's garden question - (13), I think.

    I like hostas, as do slugs. My many clumps and pots of inherited hostas are about to break through. How do I protect them from slugs? Is it as simple as a band of eggshells on the soil (of which I have also inherited a fair quantity)?

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1254727694832590848

    We have doves trying to make a nest in our Acer tree... not that successfully so far
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Also an interesting piece on the epidemiology of spread in a Korean call centre:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1254741387595177985?s=19

    Tracing where spread occurs is pretty vital to effective social distancing.

    I'm surprised that with their app-based contact tracing that S Korea does not have more information about where transmission is actually happening.
    Did you see the paper? they traced very carefully. Even to the map of the call centre floor, blue being the infected desks.:


  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,391
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    I think many of the people lambasting "journalists" on here and elsewhere will and should be embarrassed at their willingness to try to find a scapegoat or dog to kick.

    They may well be scared shitless and unwilling to question and challenge the government during this unprecedented time but that is exactly what journalists are there to do and thank goodness they are.

    And as for the asinine questions people think journalists are asking, and I know @Nigelb has done this already, why don't you go ahead and submit a question for this evening. And if the damning, gotcha, ten paragraph expose is not read out, you can ask yourselves why that should have been.

    There does seem to be a lot of holding Robert Peston to account rather than those taking the decisions. Unusual.
    It took me an hour (with beer) to write an automated system to generate the chart below. Scrapes the NHS England data etc.

    Yet we had a talking head on BBC24 commenting as if the reporting was for yesterday....

    image
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    FF43 said:

    felix said:

    FF43 said:

    So today's presser questions...

    When is the lockdown to be lifted?
    Why isn't it been lifted?
    But we only had 300 deaths the past few days, surely we should be lifting the lockdown?
    If we are past peak, surely we can allow people more freedom under the lockdown rules?
    ....

    Very good questions. In general there is no such thing as a stupid question; only stupid answers.

    Our in this case, no answers.
    You think they are good questions? Wow!
    I do. If you answer them properly no-one will think they are stupid questions. People will focus on the answers. Those questions are a gift.
    This is a good point I hadn't really considered.
    I think the govt should be setting out the what of its lockdown lifting strategy, even if it can't tell us the when.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Also an interesting piece on the epidemiology of spread in a Korean call centre:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1254741387595177985?s=19

    Tracing where spread occurs is pretty vital to effective social distancing.

    I'm surprised that with their app-based contact tracing that S Korea does not have more information about where transmission is actually happening.

    Very interesting about the spread from desks. Would you agree that this does indeed point to droplets, as opposed to airborne aerosols, as the principal cause of spread? In that droplets will fall out of the air relatively quickly and hence in office settings onto the desk; whereas in elevators and corridors, because we are not touching surfaces (other than the floor button), we are not really exposed to settled droplets, rather mostly aerosols.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,246
    MattW said:

    Gardening Corner with @Cyclefree. Today's garden question - (13), I think.

    I like hostas, as do slugs. My many clumps and pots of inherited hostas are about to break through. How do I protect them from slugs? Is it as simple as a band of eggshells on the soil (of which I have also inherited a fair quantity)?

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1254727694832590848

    My mother concluded that the only method that really worked with slugs was grim determination and a Stanley knife.

    I did have some limited success with beer traps, but recharging the traps after rainfall was problematic.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    TimT said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Also an interesting piece on the epidemiology of spread in a Korean call centre:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1254741387595177985?s=19

    Tracing where spread occurs is pretty vital to effective social distancing.

    I'm surprised that with their app-based contact tracing that S Korea does not have more information about where transmission is actually happening.

    Very interesting about the spread from desks. Would you agree that this does indeed point to droplets, as opposed to airborne aerosols, as the principal cause of spread? In that droplets will fall out of the air relatively quickly and hence in office settings onto the desk; whereas in elevators and corridors, because we are not touching surfaces (other than the floor button), we are not really exposed to settled droplets, rather mostly aerosols.
    By the nature of a call centre, everyone would be talking, much less so in corridors or lifts. There was very little spread between floors, which supports that theory too, as all floors share same common lifts and entrance.

    This sort of tracing goes back to the sort of work John Snow did in Soho in the nineteenth century. Hopefully we can work out how to do this ourselves, thereby creating a low risk office space.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,288
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629

    MattW said:

    Gardening Corner with @Cyclefree. Today's garden question - (13), I think.

    I like hostas, as do slugs. My many clumps and pots of inherited hostas are about to break through. How do I protect them from slugs? Is it as simple as a band of eggshells on the soil (of which I have also inherited a fair quantity)?

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1254727694832590848

    My mother concluded that the only method that really worked with slugs was grim determination and a Stanley knife.

    I did have some limited success with beer traps, but recharging the traps after rainfall was problematic.
    I have always done well with hedgehogs, but am told chickens are pretty good too.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Foxy said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Also an interesting piece on the epidemiology of spread in a Korean call centre:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1254741387595177985?s=19

    Tracing where spread occurs is pretty vital to effective social distancing.

    I'm surprised that with their app-based contact tracing that S Korea does not have more information about where transmission is actually happening.
    Did you see the paper? they traced very carefully. Even to the map of the call centre floor, blue being the infected desks.:


    @ Foxy, do you have a link to the paper? Thanks
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,612
    TimT said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    Also an interesting piece on the epidemiology of spread in a Korean call centre:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1254741387595177985?s=19

    Tracing where spread occurs is pretty vital to effective social distancing.

    I'm surprised that with their app-based contact tracing that S Korea does not have more information about where transmission is actually happening.

    Very interesting about the spread from desks. Would you agree that this does indeed point to droplets, as opposed to airborne aerosols, as the principal cause of spread? In that droplets will fall out of the air relatively quickly and hence in office settings onto the desk; whereas in elevators and corridors, because we are not touching surfaces (other than the floor button), we are not really exposed to settled droplets, rather mostly aerosols.
    The Roy Hattersley transmission mechanism.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Scratch that, Foxy, found the link on your twitter post. Thanks
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    FPT:
    The Last of Us 2 has had massive spoilers leaked.

    I'd heard some displeasing rumours, but if you want to avoid the leaks, be sure to keep away from comment sections/forums etc.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,973
    FPT

    What a load of old bollox. Sillars is a nutjob, unionist go to nutter when they want to announce death of SNP. Oh how we laugh, deputy leader from 100 years ago.


    HeraldScotland

    @heraldscotland

    EXCLUSIVE: Jim Sillars says @theSNP may have to be replaced by new independence party https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18406865.jim-sillars-says-snp-may-replaced-new-independence-party/
    Sillars says SNP may have to be replaced by new independence party

    THE SNP is so rotten it may have to be replaced by a new independence party, its former deputy leader has said.
    heraldscotland.com
    53


  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,718
    TGOHF666 said:
    Surely that's just a function of the axes chosen.
    And it says not adjusted for population.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,304

    Does Adams ever do a funny cartoon? This one is not just unfunny but also unfair - no sensible person equates the PM working on the crisis to everyone going back.

    Cartoonist eh? Never ones for accuracy. Look at this one here - after the fall of France in 1940 we had more than one soldier. Not even funny!

    image
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,093
    Fckn hell, there's glassy eyed sycophancy, then there's offering to take on toilet paper duties for someone.

    https://twitter.com/halfon4harlowMP/status/1254763225314361347?s=20
This discussion has been closed.