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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If this trend goes on Johnson’s CON government will soon have

SystemSystem Posts: 8,258
edited May 12 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If this trend goes on Johnson’s CON government will soon have a net negative approval rating

The above chart is based on the weekly YouGov polling in which those sampled are asked to state whether they approve or disapprove of the government. As can be seen at the start of the lockout there was considerable backing for what Johnson had done and the policies that were being pursued. This has now moved from a net 26% to 7% in the latest survey in seven weeks.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 216
    First
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 216
    Am I alone in thinking that we could start shipping out some of the elderly infected from the care homes into the Nightingale hospitals a) try and save their lives, and b) stop the virus transfer in the homes? I thought we had a lot of capacity at the moment.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 2,589

    Am I alone in thinking that we could start shipping out some of the elderly infected from the care homes into the Nightingale hospitals a) try and save their lives, and b) stop the virus transfer in the homes? I thought we had a lot of capacity at the moment.

    It was never intended to take care of people with complicated pre-existing medical conditions, so I suspect that's a non-starter.

    Anyway, the problem with virus transfer in the homes is (I assume) primarily the staff, rather than the residents.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 216
    Endillion said:

    Am I alone in thinking that we could start shipping out some of the elderly infected from the care homes into the Nightingale hospitals a) try and save their lives, and b) stop the virus transfer in the homes? I thought we had a lot of capacity at the moment.

    It was never intended to take care of people with complicated pre-existing medical conditions, so I suspect that's a non-starter.

    Anyway, the problem with virus transfer in the homes is (I assume) primarily the staff, rather than the residents.
    oic

    It sounds like these care-homes are true examples of "God's waiting room"

    It is very sad...
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 10,497
    Just watched Prof Scully claim that Scotland has a dispersed population, might common as a surprise to those living in The Central Belt.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 59,307
    Does it change your thoughts on the necessity of the lockdown ?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 2,611
    Mike doesn`t pick up a further, growing unease about the government - Sunak`s financial package and the consequent effect on public finances. Three politically-savvy people in our village hall today were raging about the news of the furlough extension. I kept quiet - earwigging - and the common view was that Boris has "lost the plot".
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 34,452

    Am I alone in thinking that we could start shipping out some of the elderly infected from the care homes into the Nightingale hospitals a) try and save their lives, and b) stop the virus transfer in the homes? I thought we had a lot of capacity at the moment.

    i was told this morning "they don't have the toilet facilities". We may have built them in record time, but we don't seem to have been very fleet of foot in repurposing them when the need they were built for never materialised.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 81,957
    Boris Johnson's ratings are also tumbling.



    IIRC Both Blair & Cameron got a baby boost in the polls, although those happy occasions weren't during a pandemic.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 81,957
    This is the story I expect to gain a lot of traction in the next few days.

    The UK Is Taking Longer Than Other Countries To Process Coronavirus Tests — And That's A Big Problem For Contact Tracing

    The government refused to reveal the average turnaround time for tests, but one Tory MP says they're taking five days or longer. Other countries can do it in hours.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/uk-coronavirus-test-trace-trace-results
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 32,965

    Am I alone in thinking that we could start shipping out some of the elderly infected from the care homes into the Nightingale hospitals a) try and save their lives, and b) stop the virus transfer in the homes? I thought we had a lot of capacity at the moment.

    i was told this morning "they don't have the toilet facilities". We may have built them in record time, but we don't seem to have been very fleet of foot in repurposing them when the need they were built for never materialised.
    They don't have the toilet facilities? Eh? They are built inside major exhibition centres which have 1000s of visitors.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,034
    edited May 12

    Boris Johnson's ratings are also tumbling.



    IIRC Both Blair & Cameron got a baby boost in the polls, although those happy occasions weren't during a pandemic.
    +22 and should get another boost today. Historically that seems pretty good. No sign of a Starmer boost either.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 2,939
    We're in an interesting situation with the polls whereby we have to take these drops with the same pinch of salt we took the soaring ratings before. The rally round the flag effect was always temporary, the question is whether these softening numbers are just that unwinding or a deeper decline which will take the Government's approval below the pre-COVID numbers. I suspect there is some genuine decline, but since there's no imminent election we can just wait and see.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 5,678
    Number in hospital up - only marginally but still worrying news - trend had been steadily down.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 32,965
    Anecdata:

    Local town's high street "rammed" this morning apparently. Including groups of old folks staying around on the pedestrian area chatting and not doing social distancing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 45,907
    edited May 12

    This is the story I expect to gain a lot of traction in the next few days.

    The UK Is Taking Longer Than Other Countries To Process Coronavirus Tests — And That's A Big Problem For Contact Tracing

    The government refused to reveal the average turnaround time for tests, but one Tory MP says they're taking five days or longer. Other countries can do it in hours.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/uk-coronavirus-test-trace-trace-results

    Its like PB is always way on front of the news...we raised the issue with the app 3 weeks before the media, we have raised this issue for a good month, if not longer.

    One day they will also realise that Radiohead are beeeeeeeeeeeeepppppppp...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 32,965

    This is the story I expect to gain a lot of traction in the next few days.

    The UK Is Taking Longer Than Other Countries To Process Coronavirus Tests — And That's A Big Problem For Contact Tracing

    The government refused to reveal the average turnaround time for tests, but one Tory MP says they're taking five days or longer. Other countries can do it in hours.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/uk-coronavirus-test-trace-trace-results

    Its like PB is always way on front of the news...we raised the issue with the app 3 weeks before the media, we have raised this issue for a good month, if not longer.

    One day they will also realise that Radiohead are beeeeeeeeeeeeepppppppp...
    To get ahead of the news, you need to read PB.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 45,907
    Have the government made it clear when shielded people are allowed out.

    My elderly parents have been on the phone and think its ok to pop down the shops now. I had to tell them to get back in the bloody house.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 81
    edited May 12

    Am I alone in thinking that we could start shipping out some of the elderly infected from the care homes into the Nightingale hospitals a) try and save their lives, and b) stop the virus transfer in the homes? I thought we had a lot of capacity at the moment.

    i was told this morning "they don't have the toilet facilities". We may have built them in record time, but we don't seem to have been very fleet of foot in repurposing them when the need they were built for never materialised.
    They don't have the toilet facilities? Eh? They are built inside major exhibition centres which have 1000s of visitors.
    Probably not the adapted kind they would need for elderly patients.

    If you are on a ventilator then that isn't an issue.
  • eekeek Posts: 7,831

    Am I alone in thinking that we could start shipping out some of the elderly infected from the care homes into the Nightingale hospitals a) try and save their lives, and b) stop the virus transfer in the homes? I thought we had a lot of capacity at the moment.

    i was told this morning "they don't have the toilet facilities". We may have built them in record time, but we don't seem to have been very fleet of foot in repurposing them when the need they were built for never materialised.
    They have toilet facilities but its 30 toilets in one area at an end of the hall - it would be a long distance to go.

    As I said this morning the nightingales are designed for people who don't need food or toilet facilities due to the level of illness. What you need is something like hotel rooms but with some nursing support available.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 81,957

    Have the government made it clear when shielded people are allowed out.

    My elderly parents have been on the phone and think its ok to pop down the shops now. I had to tell them to get back in the bloody house.

    End of June, they should get a letter/text in the next few weeks telling what to do next.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 81,957

    This is the story I expect to gain a lot of traction in the next few days.

    The UK Is Taking Longer Than Other Countries To Process Coronavirus Tests — And That's A Big Problem For Contact Tracing

    The government refused to reveal the average turnaround time for tests, but one Tory MP says they're taking five days or longer. Other countries can do it in hours.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/uk-coronavirus-test-trace-trace-results

    Its like PB is always way on front of the news...we raised the issue with the app 3 weeks before the media, we have raised this issue for a good month, if not longer.

    One day they will also realise that Radiohead are beeeeeeeeeeeeepppppppp...
    Sunday will see PB publish a thread proving the link between Covid-19 and pizzas with pineapples on them.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 6,778
    Stocky said:

    Mike doesn`t pick up a further, growing unease about the government - Sunak`s financial package and the consequent effect on public finances. Three politically-savvy people in our village hall today were raging about the news of the furlough extension. I kept quiet - earwigging - and the common view was that Boris has "lost the plot".

    Daily Mail comments (I know) very unsupportive.
    It is of the why should I go to work at risk to pay for others to sit on their arse till October?
    A reasonable question, even if it obviously more complicated than that.
    Almost none of the commenters seemed to realise you don't have a choice to be furloughed.
    Much lazy, feckless bone idle, etc. This is dangerous territory for the Government if it takes hold.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 32,965
    Pulpstar said:

    Does it change your thoughts on the necessity of the lockdown ?
    Certainly needs to be kept an eye on. Has the virus mutated? Worrying.

    I'm a lockdown sceptic in the sense that it should be questioned as a policy, particularly the view it should have been done earlier, when it is so hard for people to comply (and massive mental health issues). That is not to say it was definitely a bad policy, but there are worrying aspects like the model code being a 13 year old mess that is not consistent.

  • AlwaysSingingAlwaysSinging Posts: 12
    edited May 12
    Hmm. My vanilla account seems to have reset. Is my post count back to zero? How odd. Anyone else similarly affected?

    (Edit: yes, back to zero.)

    --AS
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 1,144
    dixiedean said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike doesn`t pick up a further, growing unease about the government - Sunak`s financial package and the consequent effect on public finances. Three politically-savvy people in our village hall today were raging about the news of the furlough extension. I kept quiet - earwigging - and the common view was that Boris has "lost the plot".

    Daily Mail comments (I know) very unsupportive.
    It is of the why should I go to work at risk to pay for others to sit on their arse till October?
    A reasonable question, even if it obviously more complicated than that.
    Almost none of the commenters seemed to realise you don't have a choice to be furloughed.
    Much lazy, feckless bone idle, etc. This is dangerous territory for the Government if it takes hold.
    The most liked comment on the Mail's story on this was ''we're going to be paying for this for the rest of our lives''

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 45,907
    Who buys anything from the internet that doesn't take visa or mastercard?

    BBC News - Google Search results topped by suspected scam gadget store
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52627272
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 28,118

    Have the government made it clear when shielded people are allowed out.

    My elderly parents have been on the phone and think its ok to pop down the shops now. I had to tell them to get back in the bloody house.

    In fairness to them, if I lived in a house of blood I’d want to get out ASAP.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 2,589
    I assume I missed the bit where we provided feedback on the new mobile version, but just in case:
    It looks very nice, but doesn't solve the problem of the left- and right-most edges being cut off the comments (on my Android phone, anyway).
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 216
    ydoethur said:

    Have the government made it clear when shielded people are allowed out.

    My elderly parents have been on the phone and think its ok to pop down the shops now. I had to tell them to get back in the bloody house.

    In fairness to them, if I lived in a house of blood I’d want to get out ASAP.
    LOL --- very good
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 28,118

    Hmm. My vanilla account seems to have reset. Is my post count back to zero? How odd. Anyone else similarly affected?

    (Edit: yes, back to zero.)

    --AS

    No, so far my awesome punning has been preserved for posterity.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 45,907
    I get the feeling the government have just given up caring about these press conferences. It is becoming increasingly rare we get the top eggheads or the top 3 ministers.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 216

    I get the feeling the government have just given up caring about these press conferences. It is becoming increasingly rare we get the top eggheads or the top 3 ministers.

    Hardly the A Team...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 10,383
    edited May 12
    PT -

    Just to reply but not kick it off again. I know the virus trumps Mrs T. Of course it does. It's alive for one thing. Very much so.

    1. That was ALREADY happening before Thatcher (well not the boom bit, to be fair). Surely this incontrovertible fact shouldn't be too hard to understand?

    2. Where did I say that the mining communities weren't badly hit? Of course they were, as they were all over Europe.

    3. None of that makes Margaret Thatcher a 'witch' does it? It wasn't her fault that economic reality meant that the mines could not be saved, as they could not be under Wilson or in the Pas de Calais. Still less was it her fault that the antics of Scargill and the brutish unions made it far, far worse.

    Scargill was a menace. Mining was not a long term proposition at anything like the scale of the 'good old days'. Which they weren't anyway, since toiling half your life underground and getting your lungs full of crap is no way to live. Maggie was not to blame for any of that.

    However she was the PM - a powerful one - who presided over these communities being trashed. It was an abdication of responsibility. Maybe it kept her up at night, but I suspect not.

    Witch? I take that back because it's sexist. But IMO she was not a good egg.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 28,118
    Endillion said:

    I assume I missed the bit where we provided feedback on the new mobile version, but just in case:
    It looks very nice, but doesn't solve the problem of the left- and right-most edges being cut off the comments (on my Android phone, anyway).

    That’s your fault for having an Android.

    Or at least, it would be if it didn’t affect my iPhone as well.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 32,965

    dixiedean said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike doesn`t pick up a further, growing unease about the government - Sunak`s financial package and the consequent effect on public finances. Three politically-savvy people in our village hall today were raging about the news of the furlough extension. I kept quiet - earwigging - and the common view was that Boris has "lost the plot".

    Daily Mail comments (I know) very unsupportive.
    It is of the why should I go to work at risk to pay for others to sit on their arse till October?
    A reasonable question, even if it obviously more complicated than that.
    Almost none of the commenters seemed to realise you don't have a choice to be furloughed.
    Much lazy, feckless bone idle, etc. This is dangerous territory for the Government if it takes hold.
    The most liked comment on the Mail's story on this was ''we're going to be paying for this for the rest of our lives''

    Well, depends how old you are. But yes we will be paying for years.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 3,272

    This is the story I expect to gain a lot of traction in the next few days.

    The UK Is Taking Longer Than Other Countries To Process Coronavirus Tests — And That's A Big Problem For Contact Tracing

    The government refused to reveal the average turnaround time for tests, but one Tory MP says they're taking five days or longer. Other countries can do it in hours.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/uk-coronavirus-test-trace-trace-results

    Yes - mine took 8 days. (Negative)
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 2,589
    ydoethur said:

    Endillion said:

    I assume I missed the bit where we provided feedback on the new mobile version, but just in case:
    It looks very nice, but doesn't solve the problem of the left- and right-most edges being cut off the comments (on my Android phone, anyway).

    That’s your fault for having an Android.

    Or at least, it would be if it didn’t affect my iPhone as well.
    Even if it didn't, I don't think paying three times as much to not have to guess the first letter of every line would represent value. I can see like 98% of the letters as it is.
  • AlwaysSingingAlwaysSinging Posts: 12

    I get the feeling the government have just given up caring about these press conferences. It is becoming increasingly rare we get the top eggheads or the top 3 ministers.

    I wish they would cut it down to three times a week. That's more than enough.

    --AS
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 45,907
    I see Sky have picked up on Wuhan testing its whole population. Interesting they are using a different type of test.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 1,144

    dixiedean said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike doesn`t pick up a further, growing unease about the government - Sunak`s financial package and the consequent effect on public finances. Three politically-savvy people in our village hall today were raging about the news of the furlough extension. I kept quiet - earwigging - and the common view was that Boris has "lost the plot".

    Daily Mail comments (I know) very unsupportive.
    It is of the why should I go to work at risk to pay for others to sit on their arse till October?
    A reasonable question, even if it obviously more complicated than that.
    Almost none of the commenters seemed to realise you don't have a choice to be furloughed.
    Much lazy, feckless bone idle, etc. This is dangerous territory for the Government if it takes hold.
    The most liked comment on the Mail's story on this was ''we're going to be paying for this for the rest of our lives''

    Well, depends how old you are. But yes we will be paying for years.
    There are people not yet born who will be paying for this. The size is that big.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 766
    edited May 12
    A net negative approval rating for a government?

    How many weeks in the last 520, 1040 has that been the case?

    'sake, you're meant to be good at these sort of things.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 2,226
    Endillion said:

    ydoethur said:

    Endillion said:

    I assume I missed the bit where we provided feedback on the new mobile version, but just in case:
    It looks very nice, but doesn't solve the problem of the left- and right-most edges being cut off the comments (on my Android phone, anyway).

    That’s your fault for having an Android.

    Or at least, it would be if it didn’t affect my iPhone as well.
    Even if it didn't, I don't think paying three times as much to not have to guess the first letter of every line would represent value. I can see like 98% of the letters as it is.
    you will see 100% if you simply tell it to show you the desktop version of the site.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 32,967

    dixiedean said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike doesn`t pick up a further, growing unease about the government - Sunak`s financial package and the consequent effect on public finances. Three politically-savvy people in our village hall today were raging about the news of the furlough extension. I kept quiet - earwigging - and the common view was that Boris has "lost the plot".

    Daily Mail comments (I know) very unsupportive.
    It is of the why should I go to work at risk to pay for others to sit on their arse till October?
    A reasonable question, even if it obviously more complicated than that.
    Almost none of the commenters seemed to realise you don't have a choice to be furloughed.
    Much lazy, feckless bone idle, etc. This is dangerous territory for the Government if it takes hold.
    The most liked comment on the Mail's story on this was ''we're going to be paying for this for the rest of our lives''

    Well, depends how old you are. But yes we will be paying for years.
    The difficulty for Rishi is the right of the party hate the money pouring out of the treasury and mirror Trump's attitude to just get the economy going with no care for mortality

    Rishi is far sighted in his furlough programme as it gives the leisure, hospitality and hotel sectors a chance to survive, the total collapse of these sectors without this help would be far far worse
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    I get the feeling the government have just given up caring about these press conferences. It is becoming increasingly rare we get the top eggheads or the top 3 ministers.

    Big overhead to have these daily - probably hours of pre-briefing prep and q&a practice.

    Probably 1/2 of the ministers day taken up by it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 45,907

    I get the feeling the government have just given up caring about these press conferences. It is becoming increasingly rare we get the top eggheads or the top 3 ministers.

    I wish they would cut it down to three times a week. That's more than enough.

    --AS
    There is no real direction to them. Its just the stats the random questions. Would be better to coordinate today we will update on the track / trace, send along your tech correspondence, tomorrow update in medical trials and search for vaccine, send along your science correspondence.
  • Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 53,926
    A government with a negative approval rating?! My gods, what an unique occurence.

    No, that's not a unique observation I'm sure, and what the rating is is not nothing, but that headline is a tad excitable.

    dixiedean said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike doesn`t pick up a further, growing unease about the government - Sunak`s financial package and the consequent effect on public finances. Three politically-savvy people in our village hall today were raging about the news of the furlough extension. I kept quiet - earwigging - and the common view was that Boris has "lost the plot".

    Daily Mail comments (I know) very unsupportive.
    It is of the why should I go to work at risk to pay for others to sit on their arse till October?
    A reasonable question, even if it obviously more complicated than that.
    Almost none of the commenters seemed to realise you don't have a choice to be furloughed.
    Much lazy, feckless bone idle, etc. This is dangerous territory for the Government if it takes hold.
    The most liked comment on the Mail's story on this was ''we're going to be paying for this for the rest of our lives''

    Well, depends how old you are. But yes we will be paying for years.
    There are people not yet born who will be paying for this. The size is that big.
    I'd suggest the majority of people paying for have not yet been born, given how resistant the public will be to any measures to do so, and therefore the government scared to do so.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    Lol - can't wait for a "forensic" chat down the pub. Said nobody ever.

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 5,182
    kinabalu said:

    PT -

    Just to reply but not kick it off again. I know the virus trumps Mrs T. Of course it does. It's alive for one thing. Very much so.

    1. That was ALREADY happening before Thatcher (well not the boom bit, to be fair). Surely this incontrovertible fact shouldn't be too hard to understand?

    2. Where did I say that the mining communities weren't badly hit? Of course they were, as they were all over Europe.

    3. None of that makes Margaret Thatcher a 'witch' does it? It wasn't her fault that economic reality meant that the mines could not be saved, as they could not be under Wilson or in the Pas de Calais. Still less was it her fault that the antics of Scargill and the brutish unions made it far, far worse.

    Scargill was a menace. Mining was not a long term proposition at anything like the scale of the 'good old days'. Which they weren't anyway, since toiling half your life underground and getting your lungs full of crap is no way to live. Maggie was not to blame for any of that.

    However she was the PM - a powerful one - who presided over these communities being trashed. It was an abdication of responsibility. Maybe it kept her up at night, but I suspect not.

    Witch? I take that back because it's sexist. But IMO she was not a good egg.
    You might not have liked her but she was a colossus, and compared to the pigmy we currently have as PM, a mega-colossus. She was divisive and often ruthless, but fundamentally she was a leader of consequence. Boris Johnson, on the other hand, is even more hopeless than even I feared he might be. He is whatever the antithesis of a colossus might be. His classically trained vocabulary might be able to articulate what many are being able to understand.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 21,316
    edited May 12
    Looking at the dates, the peak in deaths seems entirely consistent with the majority of cases being traced back to patients discharged from hospital as the source of infection in the homes.

  • JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 905
    dixiedean said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike doesn`t pick up a further, growing unease about the government - Sunak`s financial package and the consequent effect on public finances. Three politically-savvy people in our village hall today were raging about the news of the furlough extension. I kept quiet - earwigging - and the common view was that Boris has "lost the plot".

    Daily Mail comments (I know) very unsupportive.
    It is of the why should I go to work at risk to pay for others to sit on their arse till October?
    A reasonable question, even if it obviously more complicated than that.
    Almost none of the commenters seemed to realise you don't have a choice to be furloughed.
    Much lazy, feckless bone idle, etc. This is dangerous territory for the Government if it takes hold.
    Not only that you have to agree to be furloughed, was my understanding at the point i was involved in discussions about whether we were going to do it or not
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 11,343

    Have the government made it clear when shielded people are allowed out.

    My elderly parents have been on the phone and think its ok to pop down the shops now. I had to tell them to get back in the bloody house.

    This year, next year, sometime, never.

    I reckon we'll need to drop from 3 to 2 on the Bozo-Cumstain Index before ending the shielding will even be considered.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,197
    kle4 said:

    A government with a negative approval rating?! My gods, what an unique occurence.

    No, that's not a unique observation I'm sure, and what the rating is is not nothing, but that headline is a tad excitable.

    It will be interesting to see what it looks like for the next few days after the Prime Minister's prime time chat, alertgate and the debate have been digested.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 53,926

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    Eventually, sure. An opposition leader who could not would be an utter joke
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 32,967

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    It may happen as it seems governments popularity tends to fall as lockdown is eased

    However, election leads or poll leads of any kind are not relevant to winning a GE in 2024

    That election will be won or lost on how this government deals with the financial burden covid has created on the economy
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 2,589

    kinabalu said:

    PT -

    Just to reply but not kick it off again. I know the virus trumps Mrs T. Of course it does. It's alive for one thing. Very much so.

    1. That was ALREADY happening before Thatcher (well not the boom bit, to be fair). Surely this incontrovertible fact shouldn't be too hard to understand?

    2. Where did I say that the mining communities weren't badly hit? Of course they were, as they were all over Europe.

    3. None of that makes Margaret Thatcher a 'witch' does it? It wasn't her fault that economic reality meant that the mines could not be saved, as they could not be under Wilson or in the Pas de Calais. Still less was it her fault that the antics of Scargill and the brutish unions made it far, far worse.

    Scargill was a menace. Mining was not a long term proposition at anything like the scale of the 'good old days'. Which they weren't anyway, since toiling half your life underground and getting your lungs full of crap is no way to live. Maggie was not to blame for any of that.

    However she was the PM - a powerful one - who presided over these communities being trashed. It was an abdication of responsibility. Maybe it kept her up at night, but I suspect not.

    Witch? I take that back because it's sexist. But IMO she was not a good egg.
    You might not have liked her but she was a colossus, and compared to the pigmy we currently have as PM, a mega-colossus. She was divisive and often ruthless, but fundamentally she was a leader of consequence. Boris Johnson, on the other hand, is even more hopeless than even I feared he might be. He is whatever the antithesis of a colossus might be. His classically trained vocabulary might be able to articulate what many are being able to understand.
    A Hanging Garden?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 10,383
    dixiedean said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike doesn`t pick up a further, growing unease about the government - Sunak`s financial package and the consequent effect on public finances. Three politically-savvy people in our village hall today were raging about the news of the furlough extension. I kept quiet - earwigging - and the common view was that Boris has "lost the plot".

    Daily Mail comments (I know) very unsupportive.
    It is of the why should I go to work at risk to pay for others to sit on their arse till October?
    A reasonable question, even if it obviously more complicated than that.
    Almost none of the commenters seemed to realise you don't have a choice to be furloughed.
    Much lazy, feckless bone idle, etc. This is dangerous territory for the Government if it takes hold.
    Interesting.

    "Why should I (insert VIRTUE such as working or saving) while they (insert VICE such as lazing around or spending) ??" -

    This sentiment typically drives much support for the Conservative Party, e.g. Osborne's zeal to cut benefits. If people who are prone to it turn on them, they could be in big political trouble.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 21,316
    Unusually for a twitter post, the comments under this seem fairly sensible and quite well informed.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 40,166

    This is the story I expect to gain a lot of traction in the next few days.

    The UK Is Taking Longer Than Other Countries To Process Coronavirus Tests — And That's A Big Problem For Contact Tracing

    The government refused to reveal the average turnaround time for tests, but one Tory MP says they're taking five days or longer. Other countries can do it in hours.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/uk-coronavirus-test-trace-trace-results

    Had a friend self quarantined because of medical vulnerability sent a test. Followed the instructions. 1) Book a carrier pick up. 2) Enter the barcode on her test kit on the website. No bar code. Phoned appropriate number - told to bin test & we'll send you another one - meanwhile too late to cancel the carrier pick up.....

    Given the rapid expansion in testing its not surprising there are SNAFUs.....they'll need to get ironed out pronto if we're going to track & trace....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 21,316

    This is the story I expect to gain a lot of traction in the next few days.

    The UK Is Taking Longer Than Other Countries To Process Coronavirus Tests — And That's A Big Problem For Contact Tracing

    The government refused to reveal the average turnaround time for tests, but one Tory MP says they're taking five days or longer. Other countries can do it in hours.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/uk-coronavirus-test-trace-trace-results


  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 5,182
    TGOHF666 said:

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    Lol - can't wait for a "forensic" chat down the pub. Said nobody ever.

    You might choose to chat with a stereotypical Etonian twat at the pub, and maybe find his inability to communicate quirky and amusing, but that doesn't mean that he should be PM. Give me a slightly less amusing professional anytime than a rank amateur who is nothing more than an international laughing stock.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 174
    Stocky said:

    Mike doesn`t pick up a further, growing unease about the government - Sunak`s financial package and the consequent effect on public finances. Three politically-savvy people in our village hall today were raging about the news of the furlough extension. I kept quiet - earwigging - and the common view was that Boris has "lost the plot".

    You know what, they have a point. You can make a case that unless companies start folding left right and centre that the Business Loan Interruption scheme will not have a big impact on public finances but the furlough is a bollocks.

    I had a guy on today who is on furlough wondering what when he might be returning. I suspect the answer is, 'whenever we cant claim the money' and that sums it up.

    If you knew two things it might work

    1. That you'd genuinely save a high percentage of the jobs in the long term
    2. that the cost of the furlough versus the cost of the benefits, if they went on the dole.

    Its very possible number 2 isn't bad, but number 1? That to me is the huge risk.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 11,343

    Have the government made it clear when shielded people are allowed out.

    My elderly parents have been on the phone and think its ok to pop down the shops now. I had to tell them to get back in the bloody house.

    This year, next year, sometime, never.

    I reckon we'll need to drop from 3 to 2 on the Bozo-Cumstain Index before ending the shielding will even be considered.
    Just to add, Powis indicated it will have to be extended in response to one of today's questions from a bloke from The Toon.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 2,611

    kinabalu said:

    PT -

    Just to reply but not kick it off again. I know the virus trumps Mrs T. Of course it does. It's alive for one thing. Very much so.

    1. That was ALREADY happening before Thatcher (well not the boom bit, to be fair). Surely this incontrovertible fact shouldn't be too hard to understand?

    2. Where did I say that the mining communities weren't badly hit? Of course they were, as they were all over Europe.

    3. None of that makes Margaret Thatcher a 'witch' does it? It wasn't her fault that economic reality meant that the mines could not be saved, as they could not be under Wilson or in the Pas de Calais. Still less was it her fault that the antics of Scargill and the brutish unions made it far, far worse.

    Scargill was a menace. Mining was not a long term proposition at anything like the scale of the 'good old days'. Which they weren't anyway, since toiling half your life underground and getting your lungs full of crap is no way to live. Maggie was not to blame for any of that.

    However she was the PM - a powerful one - who presided over these communities being trashed. It was an abdication of responsibility. Maybe it kept her up at night, but I suspect not.

    Witch? I take that back because it's sexist. But IMO she was not a good egg.
    You might not have liked her but she was a colossus, and compared to the pigmy we currently have as PM, a mega-colossus. She was divisive and often ruthless, but fundamentally she was a leader of consequence. Boris Johnson, on the other hand, is even more hopeless than even I feared he might be. He is whatever the antithesis of a colossus might be. His classically trained vocabulary might be able to articulate what many are being able to understand.
    The problem with populism is that it is a fickle bitch.

    In my post earlier I cited three villagers who were today railing against Boris. I know that they were in favour of going into lockdown when we did - no earlier, no later - which was in accord will the polls (populism). Now that they have belatedly twigged the economic consequences - highlighted today by Sunak`s extension announcement - they have turned 180 degrees against lockdown and now say that it was a bad idea all along!

    As I say, a fickle bitch that populism.

    Follow the majority view of sheep who don`t know a scooby and you get what you deserve I suppose.

    I could say "Brexit anyone"? but I won`t cus that will light the blue touch paper. So I won`t mention that.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 1,144
    kle4 said:

    A government with a negative approval rating?! My gods, what an unique occurence.

    No, that's not a unique observation I'm sure, and what the rating is is not nothing, but that headline is a tad excitable.

    dixiedean said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike doesn`t pick up a further, growing unease about the government - Sunak`s financial package and the consequent effect on public finances. Three politically-savvy people in our village hall today were raging about the news of the furlough extension. I kept quiet - earwigging - and the common view was that Boris has "lost the plot".

    Daily Mail comments (I know) very unsupportive.
    It is of the why should I go to work at risk to pay for others to sit on their arse till October?
    A reasonable question, even if it obviously more complicated than that.
    Almost none of the commenters seemed to realise you don't have a choice to be furloughed.
    Much lazy, feckless bone idle, etc. This is dangerous territory for the Government if it takes hold.
    The most liked comment on the Mail's story on this was ''we're going to be paying for this for the rest of our lives''

    Well, depends how old you are. But yes we will be paying for years.
    There are people not yet born who will be paying for this. The size is that big.
    I'd suggest the majority of people paying for have not yet been born, given how resistant the public will be to any measures to do so, and therefore the government scared to do so.
    You may well be right.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 2,589

    This is the story I expect to gain a lot of traction in the next few days.

    The UK Is Taking Longer Than Other Countries To Process Coronavirus Tests — And That's A Big Problem For Contact Tracing

    The government refused to reveal the average turnaround time for tests, but one Tory MP says they're taking five days or longer. Other countries can do it in hours.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/uk-coronavirus-test-trace-trace-results

    Had a friend self quarantined because of medical vulnerability sent a test. Followed the instructions. 1) Book a carrier pick up. 2) Enter the barcode on her test kit on the website. No bar code. Phoned appropriate number - told to bin test & we'll send you another one - meanwhile too late to cancel the carrier pick up.....

    Given the rapid expansion in testing its not surprising there are SNAFUs.....they'll need to get ironed out pronto if we're going to track & trace....
    Based on my experiences of both the NHS and in other countries, this is not a new problem, and is not confined to one form of test - I was often astounded by how long it takes them to process a simple blood test that other countries turn around while you wait. I therefore have doubts that it can be fixed in a meaningful timeframe for this epidemic.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 32,967
    Sharma was poor and the press conference boring

    They need to reduce these daily events
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 10,383
    edited May 12

    kinabalu said:

    PT -

    Just to reply but not kick it off again. I know the virus trumps Mrs T. Of course it does. It's alive for one thing. Very much so.

    1. That was ALREADY happening before Thatcher (well not the boom bit, to be fair). Surely this incontrovertible fact shouldn't be too hard to understand?

    2. Where did I say that the mining communities weren't badly hit? Of course they were, as they were all over Europe.

    3. None of that makes Margaret Thatcher a 'witch' does it? It wasn't her fault that economic reality meant that the mines could not be saved, as they could not be under Wilson or in the Pas de Calais. Still less was it her fault that the antics of Scargill and the brutish unions made it far, far worse.

    Scargill was a menace. Mining was not a long term proposition at anything like the scale of the 'good old days'. Which they weren't anyway, since toiling half your life underground and getting your lungs full of crap is no way to live. Maggie was not to blame for any of that.

    However she was the PM - a powerful one - who presided over these communities being trashed. It was an abdication of responsibility. Maybe it kept her up at night, but I suspect not.

    Witch? I take that back because it's sexist. But IMO she was not a good egg.
    You might not have liked her but she was a colossus, and compared to the pigmy we currently have as PM, a mega-colossus. She was divisive and often ruthless, but fundamentally she was a leader of consequence. Boris Johnson, on the other hand, is even more hopeless than even I feared he might be. He is whatever the antithesis of a colossus might be. His classically trained vocabulary might be able to articulate what many are being able to understand.
    I agree with you. Thatcher is objectively one of the modern political greats. Johnson not so much. He might become so - you can't rule it out while he remains at the crease - but it is looking unlikely.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 53,926
    edited May 12
    That does seem like something so vague as to be unenforceable, but his tone suggests to me that he feels like the success of these measures (and preceding ones) depended on the police enforcing them, rather than voluntary compliance. I suspect it won't be as damaging a change as he thinks, but then I find with many lawyers that it's always one or the other - either they vastly overexaggerate the impact of specific words, or they vastly underestimate the impact of them.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 1,144
    kinabalu said:

    dixiedean said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike doesn`t pick up a further, growing unease about the government - Sunak`s financial package and the consequent effect on public finances. Three politically-savvy people in our village hall today were raging about the news of the furlough extension. I kept quiet - earwigging - and the common view was that Boris has "lost the plot".

    Daily Mail comments (I know) very unsupportive.
    It is of the why should I go to work at risk to pay for others to sit on their arse till October?
    A reasonable question, even if it obviously more complicated than that.
    Almost none of the commenters seemed to realise you don't have a choice to be furloughed.
    Much lazy, feckless bone idle, etc. This is dangerous territory for the Government if it takes hold.
    Interesting.

    "Why should I (insert VIRTUE such as working or saving) while they (insert VICE such as lazing around or spending) ??" -

    This sentiment typically drives much support for the Conservative Party, e.g. Osborne's zeal to cut benefits. If people who are prone to it turn on them, they could be in big political trouble.
    Quite.

    Even so, its a snapshot of what the government will face when the bill does come in.

    and Sunak has a veto at the end of August. He can set the employer contributions to the prevailing mood if he wants.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 40,166
    Nigelb said:

    Unusually for a twitter post, the comments under this seem fairly sensible and quite well informed.

    The author evidently hasn't read this:

    https://www.iiss.org/blogs/survival-blog/2020/05/the-uk-and-covid-19?fbclid=IwAR0g9Dj2X6k-doHiCTQdGnjSaVotWL4b81ert60layFPMEXMiaHZ98Vq5ac
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    TGOHF666 said:

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    Lol - can't wait for a "forensic" chat down the pub. Said nobody ever.

    You might choose to chat with a stereotypical Etonian twat at the pub, and maybe find his inability to communicate quirky and amusing, but that doesn't mean that he should be PM. Give me a slightly less amusing professional anytime than a rank amateur who is nothing more than an international laughing stock.
    Name the last "forensic" PM that won an election.

    Gordon Brown was "forensic" off the end of the spectrum - got pumped at the polls.

  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    kle4 said:

    That does seem like something so vague as to be unenforceable, but his tone suggests to me that he feels like the success of these measures (and preceding ones) depended on the police enforcing them, rather than voluntary compliance. I suspect it won't be as damaging a change as he thinks, but then I find with many lawyers that it's always one or the other - either they vastly overexaggerate the impact of specific words, or they vastly underestimate the impact of them.
    that is the point though - the govt do not want plod policing who goes to the park anymore.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 5,182
    Endillion said:

    kinabalu said:

    PT -

    Just to reply but not kick it off again. I know the virus trumps Mrs T. Of course it does. It's alive for one thing. Very much so.

    1. That was ALREADY happening before Thatcher (well not the boom bit, to be fair). Surely this incontrovertible fact shouldn't be too hard to understand?

    2. Where did I say that the mining communities weren't badly hit? Of course they were, as they were all over Europe.

    3. None of that makes Margaret Thatcher a 'witch' does it? It wasn't her fault that economic reality meant that the mines could not be saved, as they could not be under Wilson or in the Pas de Calais. Still less was it her fault that the antics of Scargill and the brutish unions made it far, far worse.

    Scargill was a menace. Mining was not a long term proposition at anything like the scale of the 'good old days'. Which they weren't anyway, since toiling half your life underground and getting your lungs full of crap is no way to live. Maggie was not to blame for any of that.

    However she was the PM - a powerful one - who presided over these communities being trashed. It was an abdication of responsibility. Maybe it kept her up at night, but I suspect not.

    Witch? I take that back because it's sexist. But IMO she was not a good egg.
    You might not have liked her but she was a colossus, and compared to the pigmy we currently have as PM, a mega-colossus. She was divisive and often ruthless, but fundamentally she was a leader of consequence. Boris Johnson, on the other hand, is even more hopeless than even I feared he might be. He is whatever the antithesis of a colossus might be. His classically trained vocabulary might be able to articulate what many are being able to understand.
    A Hanging Garden?
    I guess if a colossus is a statue of enormous size we would need to know what the Latin or Greek might be for garden gnome. My google translate says it is "Hortus Gnome"
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 4,230
    Endillion said:

    This is the story I expect to gain a lot of traction in the next few days.

    The UK Is Taking Longer Than Other Countries To Process Coronavirus Tests — And That's A Big Problem For Contact Tracing

    The government refused to reveal the average turnaround time for tests, but one Tory MP says they're taking five days or longer. Other countries can do it in hours.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/uk-coronavirus-test-trace-trace-results

    Had a friend self quarantined because of medical vulnerability sent a test. Followed the instructions. 1) Book a carrier pick up. 2) Enter the barcode on her test kit on the website. No bar code. Phoned appropriate number - told to bin test & we'll send you another one - meanwhile too late to cancel the carrier pick up.....

    Given the rapid expansion in testing its not surprising there are SNAFUs.....they'll need to get ironed out pronto if we're going to track & trace....
    Based on my experiences of both the NHS and in other countries, this is not a new problem, and is not confined to one form of test - I was often astounded by how long it takes them to process a simple blood test that other countries turn around while you wait. I therefore have doubts that it can be fixed in a meaningful timeframe for this epidemic.
    I think I related a while back the story of a friend who suggested how to streamline MRI services in an NHS trust as part of his Operations Research degree.

    The short version: he studied the issue, studied how other medical organisations worldwide used the same machines. He wrote up his thesis. The response - an attempt to have him thrown out of his university...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 32,967
    What a silly comment.

    It will have a positive mental effect on many to get out
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 2,589
    Yokes said:

    Stocky said:

    Mike doesn`t pick up a further, growing unease about the government - Sunak`s financial package and the consequent effect on public finances. Three politically-savvy people in our village hall today were raging about the news of the furlough extension. I kept quiet - earwigging - and the common view was that Boris has "lost the plot".

    You know what, they have a point. You can make a case that unless companies start folding left right and centre that the Business Loan Interruption scheme will not have a big impact on public finances but the furlough is a bollocks.

    I had a guy on today who is on furlough wondering what when he might be returning. I suspect the answer is, 'whenever we cant claim the money' and that sums it up.

    If you knew two things it might work

    1. That you'd genuinely save a high percentage of the jobs in the long term
    2. that the cost of the furlough versus the cost of the benefits, if they went on the dole.

    Its very possible number 2 isn't bad, but number 1? That to me is the huge risk.
    The case of P&O might be a good illustration of this point:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-52625025?intlink_from_url=&link_location=live-reporting-story

    It's clear a lot of these jobs are going in the medium term regardless of what happens. It seems like the worst of all possible worlds for the taxpayer to subsidise them for several months before that happens.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 21,316
    This is a very good article on the principles which ought to underlie public health science (with a slight crap title):

    Good Science Is Good Science
    For the sake of both science and action in the COVID-19 pandemic, we need collaboration among specialists, not sects.
    http://bostonreview.net/science-nature/marc-lipsitch-good-science-good-science#.XrrGUCxIJYc.twitter
    ...In my ideal public health world we’d have a lot more good sense like that proposed by Adami and Trichopoulos, acting not only on the strength of the evidence we have but on the relative harms of being wrong in each direction. And whether waiting or acting, we’d work hard to get the evidence to meet the challenges of skeptics and improve our decision-making, all with an eye to the possibility of criticism and modification Medawar describes....

    Worth reading the whole thing, particularly for those who think there is some singular thing we can label "The Science".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 4,230
    edited May 12
    TGOHF666 said:

    kle4 said:

    That does seem like something so vague as to be unenforceable, but his tone suggests to me that he feels like the success of these measures (and preceding ones) depended on the police enforcing them, rather than voluntary compliance. I suspect it won't be as damaging a change as he thinks, but then I find with many lawyers that it's always one or the other - either they vastly overexaggerate the impact of specific words, or they vastly underestimate the impact of them.
    that is the point though - the govt do not want plod policing who goes to the park anymore.
    But what good is regulation, if it doesn't involve a boot stamping on a human face... Forever?

    There's no joy in giving people rules and just expecting them to obey them.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 1,342

    kinabalu said:

    PT -

    Just to reply but not kick it off again. I know the virus trumps Mrs T. Of course it does. It's alive for one thing. Very much so.

    1. That was ALREADY happening before Thatcher (well not the boom bit, to be fair). Surely this incontrovertible fact shouldn't be too hard to understand?

    2. Where did I say that the mining communities weren't badly hit? Of course they were, as they were all over Europe.

    3. None of that makes Margaret Thatcher a 'witch' does it? It wasn't her fault that economic reality meant that the mines could not be saved, as they could not be under Wilson or in the Pas de Calais. Still less was it her fault that the antics of Scargill and the brutish unions made it far, far worse.

    Scargill was a menace. Mining was not a long term proposition at anything like the scale of the 'good old days'. Which they weren't anyway, since toiling half your life underground and getting your lungs full of crap is no way to live. Maggie was not to blame for any of that.

    However she was the PM - a powerful one - who presided over these communities being trashed. It was an abdication of responsibility. Maybe it kept her up at night, but I suspect not.

    Witch? I take that back because it's sexist. But IMO she was not a good egg.
    You might not have liked her but she was a colossus, and compared to the pigmy we currently have as PM, a mega-colossus. She was divisive and often ruthless, but fundamentally she was a leader of consequence. Boris Johnson, on the other hand, is even more hopeless than even I feared he might be. He is whatever the antithesis of a colossus might be. His classically trained vocabulary might be able to articulate what many are being able to understand.
    One thing a classical education will tell you is that moaning about how deficient the present generation is in comparison to its predecessors is a trope that goes back at least as far as Homer.

    Il.5.302-304:

    ὃ δὲ χερμάδιον λάβε χειρί
    Τυδείδης, μέγα ἔργον, ὃ οὐ δύο γ’ ἄνδρε φέροιεν,
    οἷοι νῦν βροτοί εἰσ’· ὃ δέ μιν ῥέα πάλλε καὶ οἶος·

    '... And in his hand a boulder
    The son of Tydeus seized, a mighty load, that no two men could bear
    Such as mortals are now. But he brandished it easily, even alone.'
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 81,957
    That's the kinda wording that led to passengers taking peacocks as support animals on board planes.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 2,589

    kinabalu said:

    PT -

    Just to reply but not kick it off again. I know the virus trumps Mrs T. Of course it does. It's alive for one thing. Very much so.

    1. That was ALREADY happening before Thatcher (well not the boom bit, to be fair). Surely this incontrovertible fact shouldn't be too hard to understand?

    2. Where did I say that the mining communities weren't badly hit? Of course they were, as they were all over Europe.

    3. None of that makes Margaret Thatcher a 'witch' does it? It wasn't her fault that economic reality meant that the mines could not be saved, as they could not be under Wilson or in the Pas de Calais. Still less was it her fault that the antics of Scargill and the brutish unions made it far, far worse.

    Scargill was a menace. Mining was not a long term proposition at anything like the scale of the 'good old days'. Which they weren't anyway, since toiling half your life underground and getting your lungs full of crap is no way to live. Maggie was not to blame for any of that.

    However she was the PM - a powerful one - who presided over these communities being trashed. It was an abdication of responsibility. Maybe it kept her up at night, but I suspect not.

    Witch? I take that back because it's sexist. But IMO she was not a good egg.
    You might not have liked her but she was a colossus, and compared to the pigmy we currently have as PM, a mega-colossus. She was divisive and often ruthless, but fundamentally she was a leader of consequence. Boris Johnson, on the other hand, is even more hopeless than even I feared he might be. He is whatever the antithesis of a colossus might be. His classically trained vocabulary might be able to articulate what many are being able to understand.
    One thing a classical education will tell you is that moaning about how deficient the present generation is in comparison to its predecessors is a trope that goes back at least as far as Homer.

    Il.5.302-304:

    ὃ δὲ χερμάδιον λάβε χειρί
    Τυδείδης, μέγα ἔργον, ὃ οὐ δύο γ’ ἄνδρε φέροιεν,
    οἷοι νῦν βροτοί εἰσ’· ὃ δέ μιν ῥέα πάλλε καὶ οἶος·

    '... And in his hand a boulder
    The son of Tydeus seized, a mighty load, that no two men could bear
    Such as mortals are now. But he brandished it easily, even alone.'
    I see your Homer, and raise you Ecclesiastes 7:10:
    Say not thou, What is the cause that the former days were better than these? for thou dost not enquire wisely concerning this.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 5,182
    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    Lol - can't wait for a "forensic" chat down the pub. Said nobody ever.

    You might choose to chat with a stereotypical Etonian twat at the pub, and maybe find his inability to communicate quirky and amusing, but that doesn't mean that he should be PM. Give me a slightly less amusing professional anytime than a rank amateur who is nothing more than an international laughing stock.
    Name the last "forensic" PM that won an election.

    Gordon Brown was "forensic" off the end of the spectrum - got pumped at the polls.

    Gordon Brown would make The Clown look competent. I always thought we would never see a worse PM than Brown in my lifetime. I was wrong, but this time, this completely unsuitable egocentric entitled twat is wearing a blue rosette. Public opinion will quickly catch up. Even your blinkers might start to fall off after another year of bluster, buffoonery and back-of-a-fag-packet incompetence from no.10. Any Tories with any analytical skill are shit scared of Starmer. He will slowly and surely make the public realise the obvious - Johnson is a charlatan and an incompetent, and a disgrace to the Conservative Party and the office he currently holds.
  • SockySocky Posts: 404
    kinabalu said:

    "Why should I (insert VIRTUE such as working or saving) while they (insert VICE such as lazing around or spending) ??" -

    This sentiment typically drives much support for the Conservative Party, e.g. Osborne's zeal to cut benefits. If people who are prone to it turn on them, they could be in big political trouble.

    But who are these people going to vote for instead? Labour are pretty much the party of vice (IYSWIM).
  • StockyStocky Posts: 2,611

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    Lol - can't wait for a "forensic" chat down the pub. Said nobody ever.

    You might choose to chat with a stereotypical Etonian twat at the pub, and maybe find his inability to communicate quirky and amusing, but that doesn't mean that he should be PM. Give me a slightly less amusing professional anytime than a rank amateur who is nothing more than an international laughing stock.
    Name the last "forensic" PM that won an election.

    Gordon Brown was "forensic" off the end of the spectrum - got pumped at the polls.

    Gordon Brown would make The Clown look competent. I always thought we would never see a worse PM than Brown in my lifetime. I was wrong, but this time, this completely unsuitable egocentric entitled twat is wearing a blue rosette. Public opinion will quickly catch up. Even your blinkers might start to fall off after another year of bluster, buffoonery and back-of-a-fag-packet incompetence from no.10. Any Tories with any analytical skill are shit scared of Starmer. He will slowly and surely make the public realise the obvious - Johnson is a charlatan and an incompetent, and a disgrace to the Conservative Party and the office he currently holds.
    Not keen then.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 81,957
    This is what the peasant wagons are looking like in Manchester this week.


  • JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 905
    I realise this is probably tantamount to clubbing seals or dissing the Queen, but personally i don't have that high an opinion of the NHS. The depressing testing anecdotes mentioned here ring very true with my experience of a typical large organisation bureaucracy in the country, i.e. slow and often downright incompetent.

    A relative received a large 6 figure sum in compensation when her husband died unnecessarily and the NHS admitted liability. My mother went through years of at times unbelievable bungles and incompetence including 2 years of misdiagnosis followed by 3 cancelled operations once they had eventually decided what was wrong, and and then to top it all off a district nurse accidentally removing an implant without her knowledge when she finally had it implanted at the 4th attempt. This resulted in her in the end having to have her leg amputated below the knee.

    And my daughter has regular physio and associated appointments for a minorish ailment but i have lost count of the number of missed, cancelled and incorrectly booked (yet yawningly widely spaced) appointments over the last 3-4 years. Left hand and right hand are unacquainted, even my teenage daughter asks "why do i have to repeat myself and seemingly start from scratch every time i see a new doctor"

    I could go on. Suffice to say, mainly lovely people (clearly with some excellent ones) but a frankly crap system. indeed a system which literally no other country on earth has chosen. I know it is now our national religion, but religions are based on faith and not facts it seems to me.

    To what extent is our high death rate down to the NHS being a bit rubbish? I genuinely don't know the answer .
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 21,316

    Nigelb said:

    Unusually for a twitter post, the comments under this seem fairly sensible and quite well informed.

    The author evidently hasn't read this:

    https://www.iiss.org/blogs/survival-blog/2020/05/the-uk-and-covid-19?fbclid=IwAR0g9Dj2X6k-doHiCTQdGnjSaVotWL4b81ert60layFPMEXMiaHZ98Vq5ac
    What has that got to do with the central point of the linked article ?

    Now, the key challenge facing the government is to replace this lockdown with a package of public health interventions involving mass testing, surveillance and real-time data to identify clusters of the virus and quarantine those who are infected. This will mean providing adequate PPE to those who need it, enforcing border controls and instigating a phased relaxation of social-distancing measures. Rather than putting everyone under lockdown, these measures would give health authorities information about the spread of the virus, allowing them to identify hotspots and target interventions where they’re needed.

    Without these measures in place, the past seven weeks of lockdown will have been completely pointless....
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 19,837
    Careful, you''ll be accused of being a long lock down supporter anxious to prove they haven't been sold one of the biggest pups in history.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 32,967
    Stocky said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    Lol - can't wait for a "forensic" chat down the pub. Said nobody ever.

    You might choose to chat with a stereotypical Etonian twat at the pub, and maybe find his inability to communicate quirky and amusing, but that doesn't mean that he should be PM. Give me a slightly less amusing professional anytime than a rank amateur who is nothing more than an international laughing stock.
    Name the last "forensic" PM that won an election.

    Gordon Brown was "forensic" off the end of the spectrum - got pumped at the polls.

    Gordon Brown would make The Clown look competent. I always thought we would never see a worse PM than Brown in my lifetime. I was wrong, but this time, this completely unsuitable egocentric entitled twat is wearing a blue rosette. Public opinion will quickly catch up. Even your blinkers might start to fall off after another year of bluster, buffoonery and back-of-a-fag-packet incompetence from no.10. Any Tories with any analytical skill are shit scared of Starmer. He will slowly and surely make the public realise the obvious - Johnson is a charlatan and an incompetent, and a disgrace to the Conservative Party and the office he currently holds.
    Not keen then.
    Anything to do with Brexit maybe
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 1,144
    Socky said:

    kinabalu said:

    "Why should I (insert VIRTUE such as working or saving) while they (insert VICE such as lazing around or spending) ??" -

    This sentiment typically drives much support for the Conservative Party, e.g. Osborne's zeal to cut benefits. If people who are prone to it turn on them, they could be in big political trouble.

    But who are these people going to vote for instead? Labour are pretty much the party of vice (IYSWIM).
    On another site I just read a post complaining about paying for the repatriation of stranded citizens................... 'it was their choice to go'

    And overseas aid is coming up again too of course.....

    The griping has started. and its going to get much, much, much louder.

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 5,182

    Endillion said:

    This is the story I expect to gain a lot of traction in the next few days.

    The UK Is Taking Longer Than Other Countries To Process Coronavirus Tests — And That's A Big Problem For Contact Tracing

    The government refused to reveal the average turnaround time for tests, but one Tory MP says they're taking five days or longer. Other countries can do it in hours.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/uk-coronavirus-test-trace-trace-results

    Had a friend self quarantined because of medical vulnerability sent a test. Followed the instructions. 1) Book a carrier pick up. 2) Enter the barcode on her test kit on the website. No bar code. Phoned appropriate number - told to bin test & we'll send you another one - meanwhile too late to cancel the carrier pick up.....

    Given the rapid expansion in testing its not surprising there are SNAFUs.....they'll need to get ironed out pronto if we're going to track & trace....
    Based on my experiences of both the NHS and in other countries, this is not a new problem, and is not confined to one form of test - I was often astounded by how long it takes them to process a simple blood test that other countries turn around while you wait. I therefore have doubts that it can be fixed in a meaningful timeframe for this epidemic.
    I think I related a while back the story of a friend who suggested how to streamline MRI services in an NHS trust as part of his Operations Research degree.

    The short version: he studied the issue, studied how other medical organisations worldwide used the same machines. He wrote up his thesis. The response - an attempt to have him thrown out of his university...
    The NHS (as a bureaucratic entity - not the staff) has evolved to be primarily orientated to protect the interests, not of the patient, but the staff. I have worked with most of the healthcare providers across Europe at some stage in my career, and the NHS is one of the last systems I would choose if one was starting a healthcare system from scratch. It is definitely not the "envy of the world" as some think.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    Lol - can't wait for a "forensic" chat down the pub. Said nobody ever.

    You might choose to chat with a stereotypical Etonian twat at the pub, and maybe find his inability to communicate quirky and amusing, but that doesn't mean that he should be PM. Give me a slightly less amusing professional anytime than a rank amateur who is nothing more than an international laughing stock.
    Name the last "forensic" PM that won an election.

    Gordon Brown was "forensic" off the end of the spectrum - got pumped at the polls.

    Gordon Brown would make The Clown look competent. I always thought we would never see a worse PM than Brown in my lifetime. I was wrong, but this time, this completely unsuitable egocentric entitled twat is wearing a blue rosette. Public opinion will quickly catch up. Even your blinkers might start to fall off after another year of bluster, buffoonery and back-of-a-fag-packet incompetence from no.10. Any Tories with any analytical skill are shit scared of Starmer. He will slowly and surely make the public realise the obvious - Johnson is a charlatan and an incompetent, and a disgrace to the Conservative Party and the office he currently holds.
    Elections won

    Boris 3
    Brown 0

    As for referendums...

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 53,926

    I realise this is probably tantamount to clubbing seals or dissing the Queen, but personally i don't have that high an opinion of the NHS. The depressing testing anecdotes mentioned here ring very true with my experience of a typical large organisation bureaucracy in the country, i.e. slow and often downright incompetent.

    Well at least you didn't post this at 8pm on Thursday or the entire site would be taken down by the NHS police.

    But in seriousness people should not be obliged to hold a high opinion of or feel affection for an institution.
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