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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Just over five months after GE2019 – how Johnson and his top t

SystemSystem Posts: 8,258
edited May 19 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Just over five months after GE2019 – how Johnson and his top team are being rated

The chart above is based on the latest favourably polling by YouGov a series that I had a hand in creating a few years back.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 2,327
    Can BoZo afford to sack her? And does he really want a vengeful Patel on the backbenches? Of course, he might quit first.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 13,895
    edited May 19
    There's a benefit to her being on the team for Boris in that:
    * She's too incompetent to be a rival for his job
    * She will have to be loyal, because she must know that no other PM would give her an important job
    * She's popular with part of his base

    She's unpopular with the voters at large, but it's nearly five years until they matter. In the meantime Conservative MPs are a much bigger threat to Boris. So maybe he leaves her in place until closer to the election.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 2,327

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 26,150
    edited May 19

    There's a benefit to her being on the team for Boris in that:
    * She's too incompetent to be a rival for his job
    * She will have to be loyal, because she must know that no other PM would give her an important job
    * She's popular with part of his base

    She's unpopular with the voters at large, but it's nearly five years until they matter. In the meantime Conservative MPs are a much bigger threat to Boris. So maybe he leaves her in place until closer to the election.

    That first appears to be the primary selection criterion for most of them?

    Btw Sunak not Sunnak in the lead
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 26,150
    BBC: US President Donald Trump has said he is taking hydroxychloroquine to ward off coronavirus, even though health officials have warned it may be unsafe.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 6,072
    The latest date for the next general election is May 2024 - so less than four years.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 18,502

    The latest date for the next general election is May 2024 - so less than four years.

    The revision of the FTPA will mean what, though? Across the world five years ia quite a long time for a democratic legislature not to be refreshed, but we have had seven in the past.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 5,534
    I wouldn't like to put money on this government lasting until 2024, especially if it turns out they made a lot of mistakes in planning for an event such as the current crisis.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,199
    Andy_JS said:

    I wouldn't like to put money on this government lasting until 2024, especially if it turns out they made a lot of mistakes in planning for an event such as the current crisis.

    While I expect Boris to resign on health grounds, I do not see a mechanism by which the government falls, no matter how unpopular it becomes. It will still have an 80-seat majority unless the new PM goes on a walking holiday and calls an early election.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 6,072

    The latest date for the next general election is May 2024 - so less than four years.

    The revision of the FTPA will mean what, though? Across the world five years ia quite a long time for a democratic legislature not to be refreshed, but we have had seven in the past.
    Revising the FTPA is going to be difficult because it is hard to switch back to Royal perogative when that has been taken away by legislation. The FPTP Act date for the next election is May 2024
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 2,221
    Sunak and Patel's ratings make sense. Johnson's enduring popularity is just a mystery to me - I assume it's some kind of weird English class thing. But why are Raab and Hancock still holding up? They've hardly covered themselves in glory the last few weeks. Hancock's just an empty suit, and Raab looks kind of sweaty and anxious every time he appears in public.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 13,729
    Has anyone told Trump about Paracetamoxyfrusebendroneomycin?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 2,974
    Patel is a thoroughly nasty piece of work
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 28,303
    Scott_xP said:
    Surprise surprise, the troughers will just vote themselves another 10%+ pay rise so will be unaffected, let the plebs eat cake.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 2,974
    I've a feeling that when the time comes Boris and Cummings will set up Sunak to take over. He's right out of their mould.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 1,914

    I've a feeling that when the time comes Boris and Cummings will set up Sunak to take over. He's right out of their mould.

    pfffff Brown took over from Blair and that worked out brilliantly...
  • SockySocky Posts: 404

    * She's popular with part of his base

    Or to put it another way, she is unpopular with those who will never vote Conservative.

    That, I suggest, is a good thing. If you don't understand why, that 80 seat majority probably came as a surprise as well.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 28,130
    edited May 19
    I’m amazed at these findings.

    Who are these idiots who view Priti Patel favourably?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 2,974

    I've a feeling that when the time comes Boris and Cummings will set up Sunak to take over. He's right out of their mould.

    pfffff Brown took over from Blair and that worked out brilliantly...
    That's true.

    On the other hand, Rishi Sunak is no Gordon Brown.
  • eekeek Posts: 7,832

    I've a feeling that when the time comes Boris and Cummings will set up Sunak to take over. He's right out of their mould.

    pfffff Brown took over from Blair and that worked out brilliantly...
    Brown only took over from Blair due to politics by Brown - Blair really didn't want to leave and was probably hoping for there to be an leadership vote.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 898
    Suppose your rent is x and you've previously paid it six months in advance, 6x.

    Your letting agent agrees to let you change to paying monthly, but on the first month only debits y, where y < x.

    Are you in rent arrears?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 2,602
    The Scottish breaks are hilarious.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 1,914
    edited May 19
    eek said:

    I've a feeling that when the time comes Boris and Cummings will set up Sunak to take over. He's right out of their mould.

    pfffff Brown took over from Blair and that worked out brilliantly...
    Brown only took over from Blair due to politics by Brown - Blair really didn't want to leave and was probably hoping for there to be an leadership vote.
    Blair was weakened considerably by the IRAQ war, Brown knew where all the bodies were buried . A deeply unpleasant man, he bullied Blair into going and we ended up in a disaster due to Brown's mismanagement of the economy. A worse PM would be hard to think of... Eden ?
  • SockySocky Posts: 404
    ydoethur said:

    Who are these idiots who view Priti Patel favourably?

    Me for one.*

    And basically everyone who doesn't read the Guarauniad.

    *I want politicians to give incompetent civil servants an arse-kicking.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 2,602

    Sunak and Patel's ratings make sense. Johnson's enduring popularity is just a mystery to me - I assume it's some kind of weird English class thing.

    Not sure about class, but it’s definitely weird and it’s definitely an English thing.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 8,227
    Socky said:

    ydoethur said:

    Who are these idiots who view Priti Patel favourably?

    Me for one.*

    And basically everyone who doesn't read the Guarauniad.

    *I want politicians to give incompetent civil servants an arse-kicking.
    ... but, but surely everyone who doesn't read The Guardian would be a majority?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 15,656
    ydoethur said:

    I’m amazed at these findings.

    Who are these idiots who view Priti Patel favourably?

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 2,602

    I've a feeling that when the time comes Boris and Cummings will set up Sunak to take over. He's right out of their mould.

    pfffff Brown took over from Blair and that worked out brilliantly...
    I remember when John Moore was the anointed successor to Thatcher. John who? Well, quite.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 28,303
    Socky said:

    ydoethur said:

    Who are these idiots who view Priti Patel favourably?

    Me for one.*

    And basically everyone who doesn't read the Guarauniad.

    *I want politicians to give incompetent civil servants an arse-kicking.
    Oh Dear
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,199

    eek said:

    I've a feeling that when the time comes Boris and Cummings will set up Sunak to take over. He's right out of their mould.

    pfffff Brown took over from Blair and that worked out brilliantly...
    Brown only took over from Blair due to politics by Brown - Blair really didn't want to leave and was probably hoping for there to be an leadership vote.
    Blair was weakened considerably by the IRAQ war, Brown knew where all the bodies were buried . A deeply unpleasant man, he bullied Blair into going and we ended up in a disaster due to Brown's mismanagement of the economy. A worse PM would be hard to think of... Eden ?
    David Cameron is the worst Prime Minister since Lord North. HTH.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 15,656

    Sunak and Patel's ratings make sense. Johnson's enduring popularity is just a mystery to me - I assume it's some kind of weird English class thing.

    Not sure about class, but it’s definitely weird and it’s definitely an English thing.
    Yes, a lot of forelock tugging still present south of the border.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 2,327

    David Cameron is the worst Prime Minister since Lord North. HTH.

    BoZo is determined to beat him...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 15,656
    Socky said:

    ydoethur said:

    Who are these idiots who view Priti Patel favourably?

    Me for one.*

    And basically everyone who doesn't read the Guarauniad.

    *I want politicians to give incompetent civil servants an arse-kicking.
    Is arse kicking really an effective system of administration?

    Do we really want to emulate Trumps trolling?
  • SockySocky Posts: 404

    ... but, but surely everyone who doesn't read The Guardian would be a majority?

    Who is home secretary; Diane Abbott or Priti Patel?

    QED
  • SockySocky Posts: 404
    Foxy said:

    Who are these idiots who view Priti Patel favourably?

    Perhaps decent middle class types should get 10 votes and each pleb only one?
  • SockySocky Posts: 404
    Foxy said:

    Yes, a lot of forelock tugging still present south of the border.

    What art thou, deep dark truthful mirror?
  • eekeek Posts: 7,832

    eek said:

    I've a feeling that when the time comes Boris and Cummings will set up Sunak to take over. He's right out of their mould.

    pfffff Brown took over from Blair and that worked out brilliantly...
    Brown only took over from Blair due to politics by Brown - Blair really didn't want to leave and was probably hoping for there to be an leadership vote.
    Blair was weakened considerably by the IRAQ war, Brown knew where all the bodies were buried . A deeply unpleasant man, he bullied Blair into going and we ended up in a disaster due to Brown's mismanagement of the economy. A worse PM would be hard to think of... Eden ?
    David Cameron is the worst Prime Minister since Lord North. HTH.
    The weird thing is that you look back at Thatcher and even John Major and since then every subsequent PM has been worse (some because of everything they did others for being stupid enough to think a referendum was a good idea).
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Still a chance of an exotic holiday this summer - in McCuba.


  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 26,150
    eek said:

    eek said:

    I've a feeling that when the time comes Boris and Cummings will set up Sunak to take over. He's right out of their mould.

    pfffff Brown took over from Blair and that worked out brilliantly...
    Brown only took over from Blair due to politics by Brown - Blair really didn't want to leave and was probably hoping for there to be an leadership vote.
    Blair was weakened considerably by the IRAQ war, Brown knew where all the bodies were buried . A deeply unpleasant man, he bullied Blair into going and we ended up in a disaster due to Brown's mismanagement of the economy. A worse PM would be hard to think of... Eden ?
    David Cameron is the worst Prime Minister since Lord North. HTH.
    The weird thing is that you look back at Thatcher and even John Major and since then every subsequent PM has been worse (some because of everything they did others for being stupid enough to think a referendum was a good idea).
    Yes, every PM has been worse since Major. Makes you worry that Patel must be next.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 13,895
    Socky said:

    * She's popular with part of his base

    Or to put it another way, she is unpopular with those who will never vote Conservative.

    That, I suggest, is a good thing. If you don't understand why, that 80 seat majority probably came as a surprise as well.
    The YouGov poll has her at 40% unfavourable among *2019 Conservative voters*, so I doubt you're right about that but if you are then you should have written "she is unpopular with those who will never *again* vote Conservative".
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    On topic - defeating racism and misogynism is a long game.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 5,069

    Sunak and Patel's ratings make sense. Johnson's enduring popularity is just a mystery to me - I assume it's some kind of weird English class thing. But why are Raab and Hancock still holding up? They've hardly covered themselves in glory the last few weeks. Hancock's just an empty suit, and Raab looks kind of sweaty and anxious every time he appears in public.

    Not a particular fan but I dont mind Hancock, he has done reasonably.

    As for why Raab is holding up I think its the comparables. He is rubbish but clearly better than Shapps, Sharma, Patel, Jenrick who in turn are clearly better than Williamson.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 2,327

    "she is unpopular with those who will never *again* vote Conservative".

    I can confirm
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Friend of Israel, a women, Indian, strong on immigration . a Brexit supporter.

    Pretty much something for everyone on the left to latch onto there - a prejudice for every day of the week to indulge.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 5,035
    I'm surprised Mancock is as high as -1%. He looks like someone utterly out of his depth and you know when he's saying something he'll later have to retract and correct as its everything he says. Raaaaaaaab on -3%? Is there a missing zero on the end? Patel for all the rocks rightly thrown at her is doing what the people who really need rocks throwing at them want.

    The "we're ending free movement to open Britain up to the world" sounds stupid because it is stupid, but there are several million voters out there who have been gaslit to actually think its a logical and rational statement. So if Patel is -34% then she must truly be despised by the other side of the logic/stupid border.

    Did they poll opinion on Dowden or Jenrick? Or do people not know who those people are...
  • eekeek Posts: 7,832
    edited May 19
    TGOHF666 said:

    Friend of Israel, a women, Indian, strong on immigration . a Brexit supporter.

    Pretty much something for everyone on the left to latch onto there - a prejudice for every day of the week to indulge.

    Delete - the comment wasn't worth the pain it would generate
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 53,424
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Flashman (deceased), also unfit to be in Cabinet for having private meetings with Israeli politicians whilst (I believe) the overseas aid minister.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 13,895
    TGOHF666 said:

    Friend of Israel, a women, Indian, strong on immigration . a Brexit supporter.

    Pretty much something for everyone on the left to latch onto there - a prejudice for every day of the week to indulge.

    Out of interest which one of those do you think the 40% of 2019 Conservative voters are indulging?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 33,464
    eek said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Friend of Israel, a women, Indian, strong on immigration . a Brexit supporter.

    Pretty much something for everyone on the left to latch onto there - a prejudice for every day of the week to indulge.

    Strong on immigration isn't quite correct, strong on immigration from a particular location at the expense of others would be a better bet.
    Which particular location are you referring to?

    The argument that she has made, with others, which I completely respect is that prior governments have been hard on immigration from some nations (like her own background) while permitting easy free movement from Europeans.

    I don't always agree with her but one thing I 100% agree with her on is that its best to treat people as individuals based on who they are and not where they come from.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 28,130
    Socky said:

    ydoethur said:

    Who are these idiots who view Priti Patel favourably?

    Me for one.*

    And basically everyone who doesn't read the Guarauniad.

    *I want politicians to give incompetent civil servants an arse-kicking.
    So just to be clear:

    You don't object to her being an incompetent bully who was previously sacked for lying about her meetings with foreign politicians?

    We have no evidence, incidentally, that the civil servant was incompetent, but we have ample evidence Patel is.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 14,537
    The person that needs to be worried on that list is Sunak. British politics punishes those that rise like Icarus.

    Whilst his furlough policy is popular now, there are dark clouds on the horizon that will test him.

    Succeed or fail, at some point Boris might find it expedient to throw him under his bus.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 14,537
  • eekeek Posts: 7,832
    edited May 19

    eek said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Friend of Israel, a women, Indian, strong on immigration . a Brexit supporter.

    Pretty much something for everyone on the left to latch onto there - a prejudice for every day of the week to indulge.

    Strong on immigration isn't quite correct, strong on immigration from a particular location at the expense of others would be a better bet.
    Which particular location are you referring to?

    The argument that she has made, with others, which I completely respect is that prior governments have been hard on immigration from some nations (like her own background) while permitting easy free movement from Europeans.

    I don't always agree with her but one thing I 100% agree with her on is that its best to treat people as individuals based on who they are and not where they come from.
    India but more of the basis that I do not believe that stealing people from abroad because you cannot train enough of them yourself is a good idea.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 28,130
    Jonathan said:

    The person that needs to be worried on that list is Sunak. British politics punishes those that rise like Icarus.

    Whilst his furlough policy is popular now, there are dark clouds on the horizon that will test him.

    Succeed or fail, at some point Boris might find it expedient to throw him under his bus.

    Will it have '£350 million a week for the NHS' on the side of it?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 32,966
    Jonathan said:
    They are becoming addicted now. Just spend, spend, spend. Some of this is wise, other stuff will in hindsight look plain bonkers.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 5,035
    TGOHF666 said:
    Good news! Your imported dishwasher make 3% more margin for your retailer, and the price is merely the loss of the UK farming industry. Marvellous stuff!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 33,464
    ydoethur said:

    Socky said:

    ydoethur said:

    Who are these idiots who view Priti Patel favourably?

    Me for one.*

    And basically everyone who doesn't read the Guarauniad.

    *I want politicians to give incompetent civil servants an arse-kicking.
    So just to be clear:

    You don't object to her being an incompetent bully who was previously sacked for lying about her meetings with foreign politicians?

    We have no evidence, incidentally, that the civil servant was incompetent, but we have ample evidence Patel is.
    No evidence that the civil servant was incompetent?

    Well lets just start with his list of areas he was personally involved in/in charge of:
    * Windrush
    * East Coast Mainline
    * HS2

    And there's much more too. You think that there's "no evidence"?

    Much more ample for Rutnam than Patel.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 11,343
    #SavePriti

    I guess she's rather more popular with the card-carrying rank and file.

    And how many people would really have preferred to see Diane Abbott at the Home Office?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 14,537
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    The person that needs to be worried on that list is Sunak. British politics punishes those that rise like Icarus.

    Whilst his furlough policy is popular now, there are dark clouds on the horizon that will test him.

    Succeed or fail, at some point Boris might find it expedient to throw him under his bus.

    Will it have '£350 million a week for the NHS' on the side of it?
    Precisely. Boris Johnson drives that vehicle personally. Sunak shouldn’t try to play with the big boys toys.

    Meanwhile Patel is aggressive, rude, ambitious, reactionary and her worldview over simplistic. She doesn’t care much for others or reason.

    Hard core Tories love that stuff. So in her case as Home Secretary unpopularity is a badge of honour. She is only getting started.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 33,464
    eek said:

    eek said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Friend of Israel, a women, Indian, strong on immigration . a Brexit supporter.

    Pretty much something for everyone on the left to latch onto there - a prejudice for every day of the week to indulge.

    Strong on immigration isn't quite correct, strong on immigration from a particular location at the expense of others would be a better bet.
    Which particular location are you referring to?

    The argument that she has made, with others, which I completely respect is that prior governments have been hard on immigration from some nations (like her own background) while permitting easy free movement from Europeans.

    I don't always agree with her but one thing I 100% agree with her on is that its best to treat people as individuals based on who they are and not where they come from.
    India but more of the basis that I do not believe that stealing people from abroad because you cannot train enough of them yourself is a good idea.
    "stealing people from abroad"?

    So to be clear are you saying that you're upset that Patel is too keen on Indian migration? You want her to be harsher on migration from India? Is that your problem?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 32,966

    TGOHF666 said:
    Good news! Your imported dishwasher make 3% more margin for your retailer, and the price is merely the loss of the UK farming industry. Marvellous stuff!
    UK farming voted for Brexit.
  • eekeek Posts: 7,832

    TGOHF666 said:
    Good news! Your imported dishwasher make 3% more margin for your retailer, and the price is merely the loss of the UK farming industry. Marvellous stuff!
    I see now Gove has left Environment the new guy didn't even pick up the flaw in the plan of cheaper food.

    Nice to see Tesco's and co getting another 1% of margin.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 53,928
    Andy_JS said:

    I wouldn't like to put money on this government lasting until 2024, especially if it turns out they made a lot of mistakes in planning for an event such as the current crisis.

    If they made a lot of mistakes and they lose popularity its more likely to last until 2024, not less. They would want to eke it out.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 5,035
    TGOHF666 said:

    Friend of Israel, a women, Indian, strong on immigration . a Brexit supporter.

    Pretty much something for everyone on the left to latch onto there - a prejudice for every day of the week to indulge.

    I've said before that it's great that the Tories promote people regardless of gender or ethnicity. Having a BAME Chancellor and Home Secretary in the same cabinet is a Good Thing. Problem is that she's crap. Sacked for lying, a tight-lipped bully advocating idiotic policies ("string them up") and introducing one ("we don't want unskilled scummers like the nurses who saved the PM's life") which is absurd..

    Yes, there are people out there who would have us sink migrant boats and drown the children in them. Personally I would tell such people to go fuck themselves rather than pander to them. But then again I am not a Tory...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 14,537
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wouldn't like to put money on this government lasting until 2024, especially if it turns out they made a lot of mistakes in planning for an event such as the current crisis.

    If they made a lot of mistakes and they lose popularity its more likely to last until 2024, not less. They would want to eke it out.
    With a majority of 80 it’s hard to see what events might cause this Government to finish sooner.

    Boris and a few others may go, but they would be replaced. Tory MPs are unlikely to vote themselves out of a job.

    Far more likely is a slow, excruciating decline as we saw under Major and Brown. Hanging on because that’s the only thing to do. Not even in the hope that something might come up.



  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 5,035
    "Problem is that she's crap" incidentally is the problem with the Diane Abbott sainthood movement. Yes she's had the very worst kind of racist and sexist abuse. Yes there are still Tory supporters promoting abuse of her even now to deflect away from Patel doing the very same (mangling numbers).

    The problem for Abbott isn't that she's a Black Woman. Its that she's a Crap Politician. And you can't hide behind being a BAME woman to excuse that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 53,928
    Foxy said:

    Sunak and Patel's ratings make sense. Johnson's enduring popularity is just a mystery to me - I assume it's some kind of weird English class thing.

    Not sure about class, but it’s definitely weird and it’s definitely an English thing.
    Yes, a lot of forelock tugging still present south of the border.
    How so? People say this but I cannot say I've ever really noticed much respect or deference toward upper class people. I dont rule out the possibility but it feels like one of those certainties that people rarely bother to test or prove.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 5,035

    TGOHF666 said:
    Good news! Your imported dishwasher make 3% more margin for your retailer, and the price is merely the loss of the UK farming industry. Marvellous stuff!
    UK farming voted for Brexit.
    I voted for Brexit! At no point did I seriously think that would see the UK sail off the edge of the world as we're about to. I have to assume farmers were of a similar mind - free trade without the political union. Why a country who literally ruled the world thanks to free trade wants to do a unique experiment by becoming the only country in the world to stop free trade is beyond me.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 11,343
    Article on the BBC website regarding evidence of a VE Day spike in Covid infections.

    I almost fainted with surprise.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 53,928
    Scott_xP said:
    Scott_xP said:
    For being known for efficiency and timeliness those German manufacturers are running very late on having a decisive impact.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 32,966

    TGOHF666 said:
    Good news! Your imported dishwasher make 3% more margin for your retailer, and the price is merely the loss of the UK farming industry. Marvellous stuff!
    UK farming voted for Brexit.
    I voted for Brexit! At no point did I seriously think that would see the UK sail off the edge of the world as we're about to. I have to assume farmers were of a similar mind - free trade without the political union. Why a country who literally ruled the world thanks to free trade wants to do a unique experiment by becoming the only country in the world to stop free trade is beyond me.
    Because the ideologues in Cabinet, following a significant strand of the membership, want the 'cleansing purity' of having absolutely nothing to do with anyone in europe.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 33,464
    Scott_xP said:
    I don't normally like Davis but he's right, the German industry bodies are getting involved more now. They had no reason when the pathetic May you lionised was pathetically conceding everything everytime.
  • eekeek Posts: 7,832
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Scott_xP said:
    For being known for efficiency and timeliness those German manufacturers are running very late on having a decisive impact.
    The German car makers expect that they will sell cars here regardless of the state of the UK barriers. Exactly where else are people who don't want a Nissan going to buy.

    Muppets the lot of them.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 27,694
    tlg86 said:

    Has anyone told Trump about Paracetamoxyfrusebendroneomycin?

    Isn’t that the treatment for ricin?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 32,966
    edited May 19
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I wouldn't like to put money on this government lasting until 2024, especially if it turns out they made a lot of mistakes in planning for an event such as the current crisis.

    If they made a lot of mistakes and they lose popularity its more likely to last until 2024, not less. They would want to eke it out.
    With a majority of 80 it’s hard to see what events might cause this Government to finish sooner.

    Boris and a few others may go, but they would be replaced. Tory MPs are unlikely to vote themselves out of a job.

    Far more likely is a slow, excruciating decline as we saw under Major and Brown. Hanging on because that’s the only thing to do. Not even in the hope that something might come up.



    The economics are going to be uniquely awful over next four years, unlike anything any of us have seen. The Tories are likely to be profoundly unpopular by mid term. But 80 is too high to have any chance of an early election.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 5,035
    Scott_xP said:
    Perhaps Mr Davies wants to get his car to take him to car import terminals. An ocean of unsold German cars parked up at Killingholme. With a huge spike in work from home, a corresponding spike in unemployment and a rapidly evolving world, does he really think Mercedes are going to order the German government to order the EU to fold to rescue a market which is already far less attractive than it was?

    Car makers German or otherwise have problems far larger than Brexit...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 14,537
    There has been much debate and serious discussion of his morning on whether Patel is a moron. There have been a number of diverse opinions, some saying she is merely an idiot or just plain nasty.

    Davis popping up has been timely and most enlightening. He reminds us what a moron truly looks like.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 33,464
    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Has anyone told Trump about Paracetamoxyfrusebendroneomycin?

    Isn’t that the treatment for ricin?
    And SARS ...
    so it might work, but then it can be taken up the ....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 10,392
    edited May 19
    TGOHF666 said:

    Friend of Israel, a women, Indian, strong on immigration . a Brexit supporter.

    Pretty much something for everyone on the left to latch onto there - a prejudice for every day of the week to indulge.

    Yes, it's a pity her palpable intellectual inadequacy for high office gives cover for those whose main beef with her is that she's an Indian female authoritarian pro-Israel hard leaver.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 30,655
    I find this polling somewhat weird. I am not the greatest fan of Patel but the fact is that despite being Home Secretary she has been pretty much invisible for the last couple of months. The decision makers seem to be Johnson, Hancock, Sunak, Gove and Raab. Of those 5 Raab seems to me the one that has consistently looked out of his depth.

    Can anyone seriously imagine that any Transport Secretary, let alone someone like Shapps, even having a material say on quarantine when May was Home Sec? Patel is the least powerful Home Sec I can recall.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 16,930
    edited May 19
    Patel's problem is that she is too authoritarian in theory for some and insufficiently authoritarian in practice for others.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,199

    Sunak and Patel's ratings make sense. Johnson's enduring popularity is just a mystery to me - I assume it's some kind of weird English class thing. But why are Raab and Hancock still holding up? They've hardly covered themselves in glory the last few weeks. Hancock's just an empty suit, and Raab looks kind of sweaty and anxious every time he appears in public.

    Not a particular fan but I dont mind Hancock, he has done reasonably.

    As for why Raab is holding up I think its the comparables. He is rubbish but clearly better than Shapps, Sharma, Patel, Jenrick who in turn are clearly better than Williamson.
    Shapps might be more competent than people think. Judging people on appearances is unfair but people do it, and Shapps looks about 12. He's effectively stiffed Khan on TfL which, I fear, will be bad for passengers but it does show a certain political nous. While discussing shallow appearances, I fear Patel's shortness does not help her, and have written before about how the box for the lectern infantilises her.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 859
    ydoethur said:

    Socky said:

    ydoethur said:

    Who are these idiots who view Priti Patel favourably?

    Me for one.*

    And basically everyone who doesn't read the Guarauniad.

    *I want politicians to give incompetent civil servants an arse-kicking.
    So just to be clear:

    You don't object to her being an incompetent bully who was previously sacked for lying about her meetings with foreign politicians?

    We have no evidence, incidentally, that the civil servant was incompetent, but we have ample evidence Patel is.
    Given that "an incompetent bully who was previously sacked for lying" (and worse) also describes Johnson, there has to be the suspicion that the fact that she is way more unpopular than he is is down to a bit of racism and sexism.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 33,464

    Scott_xP said:
    Perhaps Mr Davies wants to get his car to take him to car import terminals. An ocean of unsold German cars parked up at Killingholme. With a huge spike in work from home, a corresponding spike in unemployment and a rapidly evolving world, does he really think Mercedes are going to order the German government to order the EU to fold to rescue a market which is already far less attractive than it was?

    Car makers German or otherwise have problems far larger than Brexit...
    So your argument is German manufacturers are struggling so much they're not going to bother if they struggle even more to sell to one of their largest export markets?

    Interesting theory.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 27,694

    Suppose your rent is x and you've previously paid it six months in advance, 6x.

    Your letting agent agrees to let you change to paying monthly, but on the first month only debits y, where y < x.

    Are you in rent arrears?

    If you haven’t paid then yes at some point in the month you will be in arrears.

    The agent is playing a convenience role in debuting your account. The liability hasn’t changed.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 23,232
    edited May 19

    TGOHF666 said:
    Good news! Your imported dishwasher make 3% more margin for your retailer, and the price is merely the loss of the UK farming industry. Marvellous stuff!
    UK farming voted for Brexit.
    I voted for Brexit! At no point did I seriously think that would see the UK sail off the edge of the world as we're about to. I have to assume farmers were of a similar mind - free trade without the political union. Why a country who literally ruled the world thanks to free trade wants to do a unique experiment by becoming the only country in the world to stop free trade is beyond me.
    I think you had to look at your fellow travellers which would have made it a trivial exercise to work out that it was going to be a shitshow. You and others on this site might have had a noble, sensible, and workable idea of Brexit, but 99.8% of the other Brexiters, and 99.9% of the Brexiters in power, or who were likely to be in power, were fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists.

    As you are now finding out.
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 646
    edited May 19
    Deleted
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 32,969
    I have long said that Priti Patel is unsuitable for her office and want her replaced. Gavin Williamson is also way out of his depth

    This crisis has changed everything and my immediate concern is about Boris

    He does go awol at times but it is noticeable that he is not stepping up to the plate and leading the nation

    He should be doing the daily conferences more often and just generally being more on show

    Now many will say he has always been like this, and others make far more personal attacks on him because of his brexit stance. However, I am of the opinion that covid has had a real adverse effect on his health, and in view of reports last night, he may not recover sufficiently to carry on

    He has big decisions in front of him, especially over no deal brexit, and I expect the slide in the polls both as pm and party to continue through the summer.

    There will not be a GE before 2024 and as has been said the more unpopular the government, the less likely for an early GE, especially with an 80 seat majority. I was surprised that Patel's bill sailed through last night with a majority of 99 - (351-252)

    Starmer is enjoying a honeymoon period in ideal conditions for labour post the Corbyn era and with the benefit of hindsight in HMG handling of covid

    I am disappointed with Boris and he needs to lift his game
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 33,464
    kinabalu said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Friend of Israel, a women, Indian, strong on immigration . a Brexit supporter.

    Pretty much something for everyone on the left to latch onto there - a prejudice for every day of the week to indulge.

    Yes, it's a pity her palpable intellectual inadequacy for high office gives cover for those whose main beef with her is that she's an Indian female authoritarian pro-Israel hard leaver.
    What intellectual inadequacy?

    She strikes me as quite bright and she had a successful career outside of Parliament before joining it. Not being someone you like doesn't make them intellectually inadequate - I don't like Starmer or his politics but I wouldn't call him an idiot.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 5,035

    Scott_xP said:
    Perhaps Mr Davies wants to get his car to take him to car import terminals. An ocean of unsold German cars parked up at Killingholme. With a huge spike in work from home, a corresponding spike in unemployment and a rapidly evolving world, does he really think Mercedes are going to order the German government to order the EU to fold to rescue a market which is already far less attractive than it was?

    Car makers German or otherwise have problems far larger than Brexit...
    So your argument is German manufacturers are struggling so much they're not going to bother if they struggle even more to sell to one of their largest export markets?

    Interesting theory.
    Control the controllables. Mercedes cannot order the German Government to order the EU to give it easy access to one of their largest export markets which thanks to our inept pandemic handling is suffering a generational shift in its economy. Even if the market here springs right back to how it was - and it won't - they don't have the ability to do anything more than lobby.

    Whereas in every other market they have including their own the problems are also stacking up. They can adapt to changes in their own market. With the EU they know that the rest of the EU and all the countries the EU has trade deals with can adapt to the changes.

    It was always an absurd English Exceptionalism argument that the German car makers are so utterly reliant on us AND are secretly running Germany who apparently run the EU that we would say JUMP and they would say JAH WOHL. It was bollocks then, its down right hysterical now...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 10,392

    kinabalu said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Friend of Israel, a women, Indian, strong on immigration . a Brexit supporter.

    Pretty much something for everyone on the left to latch onto there - a prejudice for every day of the week to indulge.

    Yes, it's a pity her palpable intellectual inadequacy for high office gives cover for those whose main beef with her is that she's an Indian female authoritarian pro-Israel hard leaver.
    What intellectual inadequacy?

    She strikes me as quite bright and she had a successful career outside of Parliament before joining it. Not being someone you like doesn't make them intellectually inadequate - I don't like Starmer or his politics but I wouldn't call him an idiot.
    I can imagine she appears quite bright to you.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 21,316
    TGOHF666 said:
    How does this give us more 'leverage' ?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 27,694
    ydoethur said:

    Socky said:

    ydoethur said:

    Who are these idiots who view Priti Patel favourably?

    Me for one.*

    And basically everyone who doesn't read the Guarauniad.

    *I want politicians to give incompetent civil servants an arse-kicking.
    So just to be clear:

    You don't object to her being an incompetent bully who was previously sacked for lying about her meetings with foreign politicians?

    We have no evidence, incidentally, that the civil servant was incompetent, but we have ample evidence Patel is.
    We do know the civil servant forgot that he works for the government. They can advise but ultimately he had his own agenda. For that he should be sacked.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 32,969

    kinabalu said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Friend of Israel, a women, Indian, strong on immigration . a Brexit supporter.

    Pretty much something for everyone on the left to latch onto there - a prejudice for every day of the week to indulge.

    Yes, it's a pity her palpable intellectual inadequacy for high office gives cover for those whose main beef with her is that she's an Indian female authoritarian pro-Israel hard leaver.
    What intellectual inadequacy?

    She strikes me as quite bright and she had a successful career outside of Parliament before joining it. Not being someone you like doesn't make them intellectually inadequate - I don't like Starmer or his politics but I wouldn't call him an idiot.
    I agree she is quite bright but unfortunately she is poor at her job and shows no compassion. She is not an asset to the party in this covid environment
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 28,303
    Socky said:

    Foxy said:

    Who are these idiots who view Priti Patel favourably?

    Perhaps decent middle class types should get 10 votes and each pleb only one?
    define decent middle class types, or do you just mean selfish money grubbing arseholes
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 33,464
    TOPPING said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Good news! Your imported dishwasher make 3% more margin for your retailer, and the price is merely the loss of the UK farming industry. Marvellous stuff!
    UK farming voted for Brexit.
    I voted for Brexit! At no point did I seriously think that would see the UK sail off the edge of the world as we're about to. I have to assume farmers were of a similar mind - free trade without the political union. Why a country who literally ruled the world thanks to free trade wants to do a unique experiment by becoming the only country in the world to stop free trade is beyond me.
    I think you had to look at your fellow travellers which would have made it a trivial exercise to work out that it was going to be a shitshow. You and others on this site might have had a noble, sensible, and workable idea of Brexit, but 99.8% of the other Brexiters, and 99.9% of the Brexiters in power, or who were likely to be in power, were fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists.

    As you are now finding out.
    That's just nonsense and beneath you.

    The fruitcake, loonies and closet [or even quite open] racists were in the vicious Leave.EU grouping during the referendum.

    Vote Leave made sure to do as much as they can to put clear water between the Leave.EU racists etc and themselves - and quite right too.

    Tony Blair was prepared to have Jeremy Corbyn as a fellow Labour MP in his government despite knowing what he was. The Brexiteers in Vote Leave were not prepared to share a platform with Farage etc
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