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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Does this Indy writer have a point – is Boris now really that

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  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,298

    Had word today that a major & extremely well funded UK university is rolling out a big redunacy scheme, god only know what will happen to the mid / lower tier institutions.

    That magic money forest is going to need some more harvesting.

    I wrote on here last week that a few friends work in the university/private education sectors and a lot of them were bracing for job losses.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    algarkirk said:

    Sunak's comments today include the stunning forecast that the unemployment from this crisis will create a million people with chronic health conditions (quoted in the Times).

    A Million.

    In his interview he also explicitly said it was lockdown (and not the virus) that was creating this massive strain on the economy.

    Is someone in the government finally, finally coming around to the idea if squaring with the public on the choices we face?

    Or of course you could speculate (for that is what it is) that as many as 65 million people in the UK will avoid the chronic health conditions which are the unavoidable outcome of a world pandemic.

    And 66.5m people have avoided death by Corona. So what's your point?
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,884
    Nigelb said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Some dumb ass questions from jouros today.

    "Did you abandon testing thousands of people in March because you didn't have the capacity ?"

    Yes.

    "So it wasn't guided by science ?"....

    We had the same capacity as South Korea.
    We just let it get out of control to the point where the capacity was inadequate.
    Our outbreak was seeded in a completely different way.

    Once thousands came back from skiing in Italy, test and track was over as a strategy.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    eek said:

    No. Factories can manufacture to more than just one spec and do all the time. That's how Asian manufacturers can export across the whole globe, they understand the spec and manufacture to that. One factory can produce more than one spec of product.

    Yes, and the products made for sale in the EU have to adhere to the legal trading standards set by the EU. Brexiteers insist that won't apply to Britain after we leave. Its bollocks and they know it.

    Not that we plan on downgrading EU standards of course. So they insist. So adhering to said EU standards which we choose to have as UK standards would be a good plan. Which would mean easy access to the EEA, no border down the Irish Sea etc etc. But can't have that because wazzocks.

    If we want to vary our standards we will be able to do so. Companies already make a plethora of models of products, if they want to manufacture a GB model of a product to be sold in GB then there is no reason they can't do that while still also manufacturing EU models to be sold in the EU.
    Ever heard of benefits of scale (you may remember it from such things as the pin manufacturing in Adam Smiths Wealth of Nations). Unless you think Britain should have poorer quality goods how do you think savings would be made?
    Manufacturers can do scale by using common components in both where possible while using other components where it isn't possible. As they already do!

    Its remarkable how car companies for instance can manufacture Vauxhall specification cars for the UK and manufacture Opel specification cars for the EU. And they did even when we were in the EU because the Vauxhall brand suited the UK.
    If you ask Vauxhall could they build their cars cheaper if they didnt have to do LHD and RHD models, what would their answer be?
    Does it matter?

    They are capable of doing both models. Just as any variance in our standards will see manufacturers capable of producing multiple models.

    Manufacturers already do produce multiple models. What matters is whether consumer demand is there.
    Yes not all of us have unlimited money so prefer things cheaper when there is no particular benefit to lots of separate standards, it is the consumer who loses.
    A bit. But Lhd vs rhd is rather a good point: it is an existing example of a UK spec which is about as awkward and expensive as one can easily imagine, but which manufacturing seems to cope with ok.
    Cope is an apt choice of word. No one would have designed it like this, it is a quirk of history that costs everyone that can no longer be cheaply solved.

    Why look to create more of those scenarios?
    Well, because you don't want rules imposed on you by external parties. That is not an argument I have any sympathy with, but the claim that manufacturing just can't produce things to a separate UK spec, "and I know this because I am an expert," is just demolished by the fact that we can have any vehicle we like in RHD without paying a premium over what LHD costs.
    Rules are imposed on all beings on this planet by all sorts of external forces. I dont try and fight that reality.

    I have never claimed people cant produce something to a UK spec. It obviously just depends on not making the spec impossible. I am pointing out that there is an economic cost to consumers from having various standards and on top of that we are losing a trade deal with the worlds largest single market in order to have the right to impose that cost on ourselves.
    Of course that's the case. So the only reason to have a particularly different spec is if people think there's a very good reason to want a different spec. But if people do want a different spec and are prepared to pay for it, then why shouldn't that be an option?

    And it cuts both ways. It might not just be legalising something not legal in Europe, it could also be the reverse. If we wish to have higher environmental standards than Europe, thus potentially making some European products illegal, why should we not have the right to do that?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Pulpstar said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Some dumb ass questions from jouros today.

    "Did you abandon testing thousands of people in March because you didn't have the capacity ?"

    Yes.

    "So it wasn't guided by science ?"....

    Why did they say it was "guided by the science" at the time then (Apart from this was being used for everything) ?
    Do you not think finding the best use for our capacity is part of the science?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,387

    Trump in action. Quite a thread.

    Seems pretty clear his election campaign is going to be rally around the flag against evil China who not only take your jobs but kill your grandparents with a virus.

    Hope Biden is wargaming like mad while he's holed up.

    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1262769806639587329

    The Lancet - ‘Trump is a liar‘:

    https://twitter.com/TheLancet/status/1262721061361254401
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966
    Andrew said:

    Nigelb said:


    We had the same capacity as South Korea.
    We just let it get out of control to the point where the capacity was inadequate.

    Doesn't look like it:



    A genuine rather than a having a go question, is tests carried out the same as capacity? I seemed to recall capacity and actual tests being given as separate numbers earlier on.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
    Joe Biden is going to lose the religious vote if he carries on like this.

    https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1262797667677212672
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,248
    Pulpstar said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Some dumb ass questions from jouros today.

    "Did you abandon testing thousands of people in March because you didn't have the capacity ?"

    Yes.

    "So it wasn't guided by science ?"....

    Why did they say it was "guided by the science" at the time then (Apart from this was being used for everything) ?
    In science, the availability of inputs is a constraint that is part of the design/decision making process.

    So, if I design an RTG (radio-active thermal electrical generator) the availability of isotopes is a constraint on the design.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited May 2020
    Remember korea not only had massive more capacity for testing if required, but, and this is massively important, speed of track/trace to test to result was often less than a day.

    In the UK, it took days to track down people, then days before tests came back. And no spare capacity to be testing people multiple times in a day just to be certain.

    So korea can get hold of those who have it and keep those in isolation before they have chance to meet too many people.
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Andy_JS said:
    An early portent of mass casualties in this sector. If the Government isn't even contemplating letting some restaurants and cafes open before July (and presumably only those with outside seating) then theatres and such like have largely had it. You would've thought that the only survivors will be national institutions that get state bailouts, those that have built up large cash reserves (or have generous owners with deep pockets,) and venues still owned by councils.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,046

    Had word today that a major & extremely well funded UK university is rolling out a big redunacy scheme, god only know what will happen to the mid / lower tier institutions.

    That magic money forest is going to need some more harvesting.

    It's 'extremely well funded' but needs a big redundancy scheme ?

    Perhaps those funds have not been used wisely.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    Had word today that a major & extremely well funded UK university is rolling out a big redunacy scheme, god only know what will happen to the mid / lower tier institutions.

    That magic money forest is going to need some more harvesting.

    It's 'extremely well funded' but needs a big redundancy scheme ?

    Perhaps those funds have not been used wisely.
    Last university campus I visited was Warwick; the construction sector looked to be doing very well indeed out of all the student fees.
  • Options
    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited May 2020


    A genuine rather than a having a go question, is tests carried out the same as capacity? I seemed to recall capacity and actual tests being given as separate numbers earlier on.

    Tests are actual tests carried out, from the data released by the relevant national health dept/CDC/whatever. For example, we have been doing 90k-130k lately, but supposedly capacity is quite a bit north of 150k now.

    That site also has the stats for people tested for some nations that release the data (UK, Italy), which tends to be a number about 35-40% higher cos of multiple tests per person. Korea uses "cases", not sure which that is comparable to, but it wouldn't make much difference in this example (and also UK daily test count only started early April)
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited May 2020

    Had word today that a major & extremely well funded UK university is rolling out a big redunacy scheme, god only know what will happen to the mid / lower tier institutions.

    That magic money forest is going to need some more harvesting.

    I wrote on here last week that a few friends work in the university/private education sectors and a lot of them were bracing for job losses.
    Those middling unis that rely on foreign student incomes & haven't diversified into generating significant income from other sources are going to be in massive trouble.

    The uni I have been told about is highly ranked, diversified & profitable, and they are still talking about massive savings being required, given expected reduction in both foreign student income and of course world economic downturn.
  • Options
    SockySocky Posts: 404
    Andy_JS said:
    "Virtually ignored by the taxpayer cash-bloated BBC"

    Ouch, it looks like the arty types are starting to fight amongst themselves.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    Pulpstar said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Some dumb ass questions from jouros today.

    "Did you abandon testing thousands of people in March because you didn't have the capacity ?"

    Yes.

    "So it wasn't guided by science ?"....

    Why did they say it was "guided by the science" at the time then (Apart from this was being used for everything) ?
    In science, the availability of inputs is a constraint that is part of the design/decision making process.

    So, if I design an RTG (radio-active thermal electrical generator) the availability of isotopes is a constraint on the design.
    "insufficient capacity" would have been the more honest answer at the time.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,001

    Had word today that a major & extremely well funded UK university is rolling out a big redunacy scheme, god only know what will happen to the mid / lower tier institutions.

    That magic money forest is going to need some more harvesting.

    It's 'extremely well funded' but needs a big redundancy scheme ?

    Perhaps those funds have not been used wisely.
    Unis hired on the basis of expected demand from overseas students willing to actually pay for an education. That is hosed for a few years as they will instead get to enjoy the quarantined joys of their domestic institutions.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    Mango said:

    To be fair, he's made a specific prediction within a specific timeline. So if it does, or doesn't, happen, then we have evidence on whether, or not, to take the author seriously in the future.

    That is really not how the UK works...
    Where is the buffoon
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,654

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    eek said:

    No. Factories can manufacture to more than just one spec and do all the time. That's how Asian manufacturers can export across the whole globe, they understand the spec and manufacture to that. One factory can produce more than one spec of product.

    Yes, and the products made for sale in the EU have to adhere to the legal trading standards set by the EU. Brexiteers insist that won't apply to Britain after we leave. Its bollocks and they know it.

    Not that we plan on downgrading EU standards of course. So they insist. So adhering to said EU standards which we choose to have as UK standards would be a good plan. Which would mean easy access to the EEA, no border down the Irish Sea etc etc. But can't have that because wazzocks.

    If we want to vary our standards we will be able to do so. Companies already make a plethora of models of products, if they want to manufacture a GB model of a product to be sold in GB then there is no reason they can't do that while still also manufacturing EU models to be sold in the EU.
    Ever heard of benefits of scale (you may remember it from such things as the pin manufacturing in Adam Smiths Wealth of Nations). Unless you think Britain should have poorer quality goods how do you think savings would be made?
    Manufacturers can do scale by using common components in both where possible while using other components where it isn't possible. As they already do!

    Its remarkable how car companies for instance can manufacture Vauxhall specification cars for the UK and manufacture Opel specification cars for the EU. And they did even when we were in the EU because the Vauxhall brand suited the UK.
    If you ask Vauxhall could they build their cars cheaper if they didnt have to do LHD and RHD models, what would their answer be?
    Does it matter?

    They are capable of doing both models. Just as any variance in our standards will see manufacturers capable of producing multiple models.

    Manufacturers already do produce multiple models. What matters is whether consumer demand is there.
    Yes not all of us have unlimited money so prefer things cheaper when there is no particular benefit to lots of separate standards, it is the consumer who loses.
    A bit. But Lhd vs rhd is rather a good point: it is an existing example of a UK spec which is about as awkward and expensive as one can easily imagine, but which manufacturing seems to cope with ok.
    Cope is an apt choice of word. No one would have designed it like this, it is a quirk of history that costs everyone that can no longer be cheaply solved.

    Why look to create more of those scenarios?
    Well, because you don't want rules imposed on you by external parties. That is not an argument I have any sympathy with, but the claim that manufacturing just can't produce things to a separate UK spec, "and I know this because I am an expert," is just demolished by the fact that we can have any vehicle we like in RHD without paying a premium over what LHD costs.
    Rules are imposed on all beings on this planet by all sorts of external forces. I dont try and fight that reality.

    I have never claimed people cant produce something to a UK spec. It obviously just depends on not making the spec impossible. I am pointing out that there is an economic cost to consumers from having various standards and on top of that we are losing a trade deal with the worlds largest single market in order to have the right to impose that cost on ourselves.
    Of course that's the case. So the only reason to have a particularly different spec is if people think there's a very good reason to want a different spec. But if people do want a different spec and are prepared to pay for it, then why shouldn't that be an option?

    And it cuts both ways. It might not just be legalising something not legal in Europe, it could also be the reverse. If we wish to have higher environmental standards than Europe, thus potentially making some European products illegal, why should we not have the right to do that?
    You value rights above the economy and practicality. On such a question for me the rights are completely trivial compared to the economic and practical benefits of common standards. There is a trade off and we will never agree.

    Those posters saying companies "cant" produce a UK product are clearly wrong. I think you are equally wrong in valuing abstract non useful rights ahead of the economy and businesses.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    EPG said:

    Had word today that a major & extremely well funded UK university is rolling out a big redunacy scheme, god only know what will happen to the mid / lower tier institutions.

    That magic money forest is going to need some more harvesting.

    It's 'extremely well funded' but needs a big redundancy scheme ?

    Perhaps those funds have not been used wisely.
    Unis hired on the basis of expected demand from overseas students willing to actually pay for an education. That is hosed for a few years as they will instead get to enjoy the quarantined joys of their domestic institutions.
    Of the shares out of which I bailed in February, the one I am happiest to have bailed out of is GCP Student Living which rents London student accomodation to rich Chinese students. Or rather, it used to do that.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    There is, though, surely something of a difference between the US, Chinese and European markets... and a new, somehow unique UK one ?

    And welcome.

    There are, of course. China, and most of Asia, prefers phones with large screens because people there are much more likely to only own a phone, not a laptop or tablet, so a big screen is more desirable for video and games. And this is an important point of the volume manufacturing argument, serving a market's preferences is often more profitable than paring manufacturing costs to the bone with a single universal model.

    UK vs EU markets is a tough question. Is there, or will there be, enough uniqueness to justify specific products for the UK only? The answer will vary by sector, but I couldn't say with any certainty even for products I'm decently familiar with.

    And thanks for the welcome!
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818

    The only people who can get rid of Boris are tory MPs and I haven;t seen much evidence they are unhappy about the care home crisis.

    What they are unhappy about is the economy and the snail's pace emergence from lockdown.

    Nicola was having a hard time on the Nike conference in Edinburgh and nursing homes today.

    She has as many questions as does Boris and Hancock but her conferences do not get UK wide coverage
    Mores the pity, those donkeys in Westminster might learn what it is like to be a real politician rather than a lying cheating toerag.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,298
    edited May 2020

    Had word today that a major & extremely well funded UK university is rolling out a big redunacy scheme, god only know what will happen to the mid / lower tier institutions.

    That magic money forest is going to need some more harvesting.

    I wrote on here last week that a few friends work in the university/private education sectors and a lot of them were bracing for job losses.
    Those middling unis that rely on foreign student incomes & haven't diversified into generating significant income from other sources are going to be in massive trouble.

    The uni I have been told about is highly ranked, diversified & profitable, and they are still talking about massive savings being required.
    The one my friend works at says they have the money on paper but it has been invested and it isn't easy to cash in on quickly.

    The other problem for all universities will be social distancing on campuses/lectures and at halls/etc.

    When we have proper contact tracing your can be sure universities being a vector for new outbreaks as asymptomatic carriers go home on trains/public transport and visit older relatives
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,046
    EPG said:

    Had word today that a major & extremely well funded UK university is rolling out a big redunacy scheme, god only know what will happen to the mid / lower tier institutions.

    That magic money forest is going to need some more harvesting.

    It's 'extremely well funded' but needs a big redundancy scheme ?

    Perhaps those funds have not been used wisely.
    Unis hired on the basis of expected demand from overseas students willing to actually pay for an education. That is hosed for a few years as they will instead get to enjoy the quarantined joys of their domestic institutions.
    The university sector has been heading for trouble ever since the internet went mainstream.

    What has surprised me is how long and how high the debt funded university bubble has managed to become.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,470
    "Jobs site for British fruit pickers 'unavailable' immediately after minister urged public to visit it"

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-19/george-eustice-leads-government-s-daily-coronavirus-press-conference/
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818

    Frost's letter to Barnier:

    Overall, at this moment in negotiations, what is on offer is not a fair free trade relationship between close economic partners, but a relatively low-quality trade agreement coming with unprecedented EU oversight of our laws and institutions.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/886168/Letter_to_Michel_Barnier_19.05.20.pdf

    https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/1262780301471895554?s=20

    Very well written.

    Barnier must be finding it difficult dealing with negotiators who stand up for the UK after the nonsense of May's years.
    Frost is the negotiator who capitulated on the Irish sea border.
    bit loose use of "negotiator " there.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,387
    Andrew said:

    Nigelb said:


    We had the same capacity as South Korea.
    We just let it get out of control to the point where the capacity was inadequate.

    Doesn't look like it:



    Fair comment.

    But note the crossover - and if we’d locked down a week and a half earlier, we’d have had maybe a quarter of the number of cases.

  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    Denspark said:

    MikeL said:

    Number in hospital with virus UP 600 from yesterday.

    EDIT: Looks like reason is there were no numbers reported for Northern Ireland yesterday.

    eh?
    639 admitted ,but 685 less people in hospital than the day before.

    edit. Hmm the dataset doesn't seem to match the slide due to NI.
    Someday mismanaged the fiddling today then
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Had word today that a major & extremely well funded UK university is rolling out a big redunacy scheme, god only know what will happen to the mid / lower tier institutions.

    That magic money forest is going to need some more harvesting.

    If and when the Government does get the bailing bucket out for higher education, it will be interesting to see what the terms are - specifically,

    1) Will blanket support be extended, or will they be interested only in propping STEM subjects and leave the Humanities to their fate; and
    2) Will this be accompanied by the lifting of the cap on tuition fees, so the more prestigious institutions can try to claw back some more of their losses by obliging their students to cough up full whack for the privilege of attendance?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,298
    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Had word today that a major & extremely well funded UK university is rolling out a big redunacy scheme, god only know what will happen to the mid / lower tier institutions.

    That magic money forest is going to need some more harvesting.

    I wrote on here last week that a few friends work in the university/private education sectors and a lot of them were bracing for job losses.
    Those middling unis that rely on foreign student incomes & haven't diversified into generating significant income from other sources are going to be in massive trouble.

    The uni I have been told about is highly ranked, diversified & profitable, and they are still talking about massive savings being required.
    The one my friend works at says they have the money on paper but it has been invested and it isn't easy to cash in on quickly.

    The other problem for all universities will be social distancing on campuses/lectures and at halls/etc.

    When we have proper contact tracing your can be sure universities being a vector for new outbreaks as asymptomatic carriers go home on trains/public transport and visit older relatives
    I am honestly surprised we didn't get a big outbreak at one already. And i am not really sure how some can make it work going forward. Halls have to be a huge problem & then are you going to tell students not to socialize? And lectures run at 25% capacity? We know conferences have been problematics, unis are basically conferences, just day in, day out.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Sunak resembled an extremely naughty schoolboy cornered by evidence of his gross misdeeds today.

    As the facts slipped out he had that rather glassy look. Severe recession....like nothing we have seen before...permanent scarring....no prospect of immediate recovery....

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,387

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    Wimps. :wink:
  • Options
    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    Someone's confident in the success of the Oxford vaccine trials, then.

    Ah. Right.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818

    OllyT said:

    Sean O'Grady is suffering from an extreme case of Boris Derangement Syndrome. Unless they are physically disabled, Prime Ministers with large majorities don't just decide to give up no matter how difficult the circumstances, especially this early in their terms.

    My money is firmly on Johnson resigning before the end of 2022.

    He will do a runner before there is any chance of holding him accountable for his handling of the pandemic or the consequences of Brexit.

    He dodges accountability during the best of times and we are very far from the best of times right now. He will claim it is for health reasons but really that will be just another in a long line of lies.
    It will be sooner if it is his health

    Otherwise I expect him to continue in office
    He has been lining up the perfect excuse, all the nearly dying , litres and litres of oxygen rubbish, he will parachute.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,470
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    SockySocky Posts: 404

    I think you are equally wrong in valuing abstract non useful rights ahead of the economy and businesses.

    That is a fair point.

    However many remainers claim to be greatly concerned about the economy, but I don't recall them arguing against the minimum wage, or for less employment protection, or for any of a number of policies that would help business.

    It feels like "I put the economy first" is often a debating tactic rather than the truth.

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    Now remember when all the tech bros shut down early & saying work from home for at least the rest of the year (some forever). This again signals that smart people dont think there is a vaccine or this thing reducing to minimal levels anytime soon.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    All sounds eminently sensible. Exams would presumably be the main bugbear. I wonder how they plan to guarantee proper invigilation? It implies breaking up large groups of students into a lot of small ones, which will in turn require a great number of separate rooms and supervising staff.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818

    The only people who can get rid of Boris are tory MPs and I haven;t seen much evidence they are unhappy about the care home crisis.

    What they are unhappy about is the economy and the snail's pace emergence from lockdown.

    Nicola was having a hard time on the Nike conference in Edinburgh and nursing homes today.

    She has as many questions as does Boris and Hancock but her conferences do not get UK wide coverage
    No, Sturgeon has many more questions than Boris and Hancock because she hardly ever delegates the task of facing up to them onto the B, C and indeed Z team. Still, doesn't seem to be doing her too much harm.

    https://twitter.com/GordonMackie5/status/1262783412793946113?s=20

    'Nicola Sturgeon voted 'most impressive politician' in poll

    The SNP leader took 29% of the vote, coming out on top just ahead of Chancellor Rishi Sunak on 24% and newly elected Labour leader Keir Starmer on 23%.

    Meanwhile just 14% of those surveys selected Boris Johnson, just 3% picked Health Secretary Matt Hancock and Dominic Raab, who stepped in as the PM’s replacement while he was in hospital with Covid-19, took less than 3%.'
    That's a voodoo poll, FOR SHAME.
    One that no one apart from readers of the Press Gazette knew about.

    If anyone was going to infest a voodoo poll I'd put money on the glassy eyed acolytes of BJ currently.
    Your fellow Nats have a history on infesting voodoo polls.

    I even did a PB thread on it.

    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/09/05/your-regular-reminder-on-why-should-ignore-self-selecting-polls-aka-voodoo-polls/
    LOL, how desperate can Tory unionists get.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,694
    As well as our economy tanking spectacularly with massive job losses, we are obviously ploughing on regardless with Brexit. Couple of significant events today.

    First up, the UK will carry over the EU MFN tariff schedule, at least on the big ticket items. This will mean big inflation in food prices and possibly food shortages next January if the UK doesn't agree an FTA with the EU before then.


    Second the UK published its FTA asks. I was surprised by how ambitious they were (maximum access). Especially given how much the government has downplayed expectations.

    Gove and Frost think they know better than the EU what is in the EU's interest and don't hold back from informing them of it in the most condescending way possible.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966
    Andy_JS said:
    Aka Priti's got a cause.
    I'm sure it won't be a distraction from all the other stuff, eg being a bit crap and unpopular.
  • Options
    alednamalednam Posts: 185
    I find it hard to see how the Tory MPs could collectively contrive to sack Johnson. They're a mixture of libertarians who want lockdown rid of, and others who are aware that the public whom they have to keep on board will resist all easing of the lockdown for a bit.
    + who would they expect to take over? Sunak too valuable at the Treasury to have him leave there?
  • Options
    Kevin_McCandlessKevin_McCandless Posts: 392
    edited May 2020

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    You have to wonder if the top-tier universities might get a taste for this? You don;t have to spend so much on maintaining your physical base, and can expand your enrollment dramatically.

    I read an interview with an education expert last week in New York Magazine who said this could be the future. Students fly in for a month or two of face to face, do the rest of the year remotely. He said it would only work for the big-name schools but it would work for them quite well.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818

    Had word today that a major & extremely well funded UK university is rolling out a big redunacy scheme, god only know what will happen to the mid / lower tier institutions.

    That magic money forest is going to need some more harvesting.

    It's 'extremely well funded' but needs a big redundancy scheme ?

    Perhaps those funds have not been used wisely.
    The salaries they pay themselves at the top are obscene
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    Now remember when all the tech bros shut down early & saying work from home for at least the rest of the year (some forever). This again signals that smart people dont think there is a vaccine or this thing reducing to minimal levels anytime soon.
    Probably, but it doesn't automatically follow. They're right to adopt the precautionary principle, assume that this thing doesn't somehow burn itself out quickly, and make detailed plans well in advance. Anyway, even if mass vaccination becomes possible by the Autumn (which you're right to point out that a great many experts are very sceptical of) then these arrangements would still be needed until Christmas.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,654
    Socky said:

    I think you are equally wrong in valuing abstract non useful rights ahead of the economy and businesses.

    That is a fair point.

    However many remainers claim to be greatly concerned about the economy, but I don't recall them arguing against the minimum wage, or for less employment protection, or for any of a number of policies that would help business.

    It feels like "I put the economy first" is often a debating tactic rather than the truth.

    I would be for a minimum wage, but against the maximum working week, especially if you took it to French levels. I am not trying to speak for remainers, or a political party or tribe, my views are just my own.

    I am not saying the economy or business is always first either, just that common standards > varying standards anyway so the "loss" of sovereignty in signing up is abstract and near meaningless.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,298

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    Now remember when all the tech bros shut down early & saying work from home for at least the rest of the year (some forever). This again signals that smart people dont think there is a vaccine or this thing reducing to minimal levels anytime soon.
    The worst news came for me this week, the train companies are getting rid of first class for the foreseeable future.

    How the feck am I supposed to get to work without a first class section?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932

    Had word today that a major & extremely well funded UK university is rolling out a big redunacy scheme, god only know what will happen to the mid / lower tier institutions.

    That magic money forest is going to need some more harvesting.

    If and when the Government does get the bailing bucket out for higher education, it will be interesting to see what the terms are - specifically,

    1) Will blanket support be extended, or will they be interested only in propping STEM subjects and leave the Humanities to their fate; and
    2) Will this be accompanied by the lifting of the cap on tuition fees, so the more prestigious institutions can try to claw back some more of their losses by obliging their students to cough up full whack for the privilege of attendance?
    Given how few lectures Humanity subjects often have they should be blooming profitable for universities.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,322

    reports suggest Johnson is now bottling out of June 01 start for schools.

    Wouldn't surprise me. In a quiet moment on impulse a couple of days ago, I put up this petition:

    http://chng.it/mpmDqnwpKy

    and mentioned it in a single post on a couple of local FB groups covering my ward, more as an expression of personal opinion that might interest ward residents than anything else. 100 people signed within hours and I was swamped with comments - a couple of people were keen to resume, but nearly everyone else said "Let's do it carerfully when there's a consensus even if it takes longer".
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    You have to wonder if the top-tier universities might get a taste for this? You don;t have to spend so much on maintaining your physical base, and can expand your enrollment dramatically.

    I read an interview with an education expert last week in New York Magazine who said this could be the future. Students fly in for a month or two of face to face, do the rest of the year remotely. He said it would only work for the big-name schools but it would work for them quite well.
    Possibly, but that's surely contingent on the subject? If you can get all the library resources as well as the tuition online then this might work for a lot of arts subjects, but sciency types are still going to need the regular use of laboratory facilities.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,331

    reports suggest Johnson is now bottling out of June 01 start for schools.

    Wouldn't surprise me. In a quiet moment on impulse a couple of days ago, I put up this petition:

    http://chng.it/mpmDqnwpKy

    and mentioned it in a single post on a couple of local FB groups covering my ward, more as an expression of personal opinion that might interest ward residents than anything else. 100 people signed within hours and I was swamped with comments - a couple of people were keen to resume, but nearly everyone else said "Let's do it carerfully when there's a consensus even if it takes longer".
    swamped with comments?? How many comments.??? as ever there are two different schools of thought on this, not sure which has more support.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    Now remember when all the tech bros shut down early & saying work from home for at least the rest of the year (some forever). This again signals that smart people dont think there is a vaccine or this thing reducing to minimal levels anytime soon.
    The worst news came for me this week, the train companies are getting rid of first class for the foreseeable future.

    How the feck am I supposed to get to work without a first class section?
    Hire a special.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,831
    Evening all :)

    It will be fascinating to see how transport usage changes in the coming days. We now have a 4-minute service on the District Line - the best it has been for several weeks. Clearly, some additional capacity has been created due to Sunak's largesse but it remains to be seen if it is being filled - ditto for the trains and buses.

    The Central Line has a 3-minute service which is better than usual.

    Talking to a client today, ideas around one way corridors in buildings are being considered but lifts remain the big obstacle to a large-scale return as well as toilets and other communal areas. The idea more than 20% could return to any building and maintain social distancing is absurd and most organisations already function with buildings open from 7am to 9pm or later so there's little scope for further extending the working day.

    UK Services and Manufacturing flash PMIs for May out on Thursday morning and I suspect it will be ugly, Sunak is certainly sounding very cautious but must be hoping the pent up demand will surge back into the economy once restrictions are eased. He needs a "V" recovery, he can probably live with a "U" but has to avoid an "L".
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932

    reports suggest Johnson is now bottling out of June 01 start for schools.

    Wouldn't surprise me. In a quiet moment on impulse a couple of days ago, I put up this petition:

    http://chng.it/mpmDqnwpKy

    and mentioned it in a single post on a couple of local FB groups covering my ward, more as an expression of personal opinion that might interest ward residents than anything else. 100 people signed within hours and I was swamped with comments - a couple of people were keen to resume, but nearly everyone else said "Let's do it carerfully when there's a consensus even if it takes longer".
    A comment from a music teacher who I bumped into at Aldi (I know but the more expensive wines are good value) was there is no way any primary school around here could but 15 children in a classroom with the required distancing. Even halfing it wouldn't help that much.
  • Options
    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Nigelb said:


    Fair comment.

    But note the crossover - and if we’d locked down a week and a half earlier, we’d have had maybe a quarter of the number of cases.

    Yeah, no question. The model estimates of number of daily infections just before lockdown are just shocking. 200k/day? 400k? 600k? Nobody really knows, other than it was a very big number, and increasingly rapidly.

    Hard to tell how much is hindsight though - we knew the tidal wave was coming, but not how quickly. On March 16th we had 65 deaths (total not daily!). The govt had made its appeals for distancing and largely been ignored, so a week later ..... lockdown. Of course, had we had wider and quicker testing back then, the govt would have a good picture sooner.

  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,399
    edited May 2020
    Nigelb said:

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    Wimps. :wink:
    Looks like it will be spaced-out Morris Dancing at the May Ball. That or the Reel.

    No Kizombas there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqSFANwgojo
  • Options
    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    reports suggest Johnson is now bottling out of June 01 start for schools.

    Wouldn't surprise me. In a quiet moment on impulse a couple of days ago, I put up this petition:

    http://chng.it/mpmDqnwpKy

    and mentioned it in a single post on a couple of local FB groups covering my ward, more as an expression of personal opinion that might interest ward residents than anything else. 100 people signed within hours and I was swamped with comments - a couple of people were keen to resume, but nearly everyone else said "Let's do it carerfully when there's a consensus even if it takes longer".
    Parents of school age children or just general residents?

    A friend who is a teacher ran a survey of their school parents and had a 70% approval for reopening in June.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    edited May 2020

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    Now remember when all the tech bros shut down early & saying work from home for at least the rest of the year (some forever). This again signals that smart people dont think there is a vaccine or this thing reducing to minimal levels anytime soon.
    The worst news came for me this week, the train companies are getting rid of first class for the foreseeable future.

    How the feck am I supposed to get to work without a first class section?
    Given that it's one person / group per 4 seats at the moment I don't think you have much to worry about. My brother has switched from working at Chiltern to West Coast Mainline and he was the only person in 4 first class carriages last week.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    eek said:

    reports suggest Johnson is now bottling out of June 01 start for schools.

    Wouldn't surprise me. In a quiet moment on impulse a couple of days ago, I put up this petition:

    http://chng.it/mpmDqnwpKy

    and mentioned it in a single post on a couple of local FB groups covering my ward, more as an expression of personal opinion that might interest ward residents than anything else. 100 people signed within hours and I was swamped with comments - a couple of people were keen to resume, but nearly everyone else said "Let's do it carerfully when there's a consensus even if it takes longer".
    A comment from a music teacher who I bumped into at Aldi (I know but the more expensive wines are good value) was there is no way any primary school around here could but 15 children in a classroom with the required distancing. Even halfing it wouldn't help that much.</blockquote

    sounds like they are never reopening then.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,298
    IshmaelZ said:

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    Now remember when all the tech bros shut down early & saying work from home for at least the rest of the year (some forever). This again signals that smart people dont think there is a vaccine or this thing reducing to minimal levels anytime soon.
    The worst news came for me this week, the train companies are getting rid of first class for the foreseeable future.

    How the feck am I supposed to get to work without a first class section?
    Hire a special.
    I would if I could.
  • Options
    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)


    but lifts remain the big obstacle to a large-scale return as well as toilets and other communal areas.

    Government guidance for lifts are one person in each corner facing into the corner. Their documentation even has a pretty photo with floor markings illustrating how to do this.

    Remember, it's 2m where possible, not 2m at all times.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    It will be fascinating to see how transport usage changes in the coming days. We now have a 4-minute service on the District Line - the best it has been for several weeks. Clearly, some additional capacity has been created due to Sunak's largesse but it remains to be seen if it is being filled - ditto for the trains and buses.

    The Central Line has a 3-minute service which is better than usual.

    Talking to a client today, ideas around one way corridors in buildings are being considered but lifts remain the big obstacle to a large-scale return as well as toilets and other communal areas. The idea more than 20% could return to any building and maintain social distancing is absurd and most organisations already function with buildings open from 7am to 9pm or later so there's little scope for further extending the working day.

    UK Services and Manufacturing flash PMIs for May out on Thursday morning and I suspect it will be ugly, Sunak is certainly sounding very cautious but must be hoping the pent up demand will surge back into the economy once restrictions are eased. He needs a "V" recovery, he can probably live with a "U" but has to avoid an "L".

    What Johnson and Sunak shut down, they will have the devil's own job opening up.

    And what if there's a cases upsurge in the meantime???? but R!! R!!
  • Options
    ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    edited May 2020

    Seems like today is voodoo poll day.

    It was sent to union members, so it’s not a survey that could be infiltrated. The figures are likely to be not vastly different to what a polling company would get, given the near unanimity of the responses. I said some weeks ago that Johnson shouldn’t try to open up schools further because it would fall apart, so it’s hardly unexpected if he has to ‘adapt to circumstance’ now. Not that I am under their control but my local authority and surrounding ones have already poured cold water on the idea, independent schools are increasingly saying no and the idea that it would get those in need back in school has been shown to be incorrect. Johnson should have just expanded the key worker list, if he’d thought more about the art of the possible he wouldn’t have got into this mess.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,387

    IshmaelZ said:

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    Now remember when all the tech bros shut down early & saying work from home for at least the rest of the year (some forever). This again signals that smart people dont think there is a vaccine or this thing reducing to minimal levels anytime soon.
    The worst news came for me this week, the train companies are getting rid of first class for the foreseeable future.

    How the feck am I supposed to get to work without a first class section?
    Hire a special.
    I would if I could.
    Time to reintroduce the sedan chair....
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,399

    IshmaelZ said:

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    Now remember when all the tech bros shut down early & saying work from home for at least the rest of the year (some forever). This again signals that smart people dont think there is a vaccine or this thing reducing to minimal levels anytime soon.
    The worst news came for me this week, the train companies are getting rid of first class for the foreseeable future.

    How the feck am I supposed to get to work without a first class section?
    Hire a special.
    I would if I could.
    Improvise.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    JonathanD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)


    but lifts remain the big obstacle to a large-scale return as well as toilets and other communal areas.

    Government guidance for lifts are one person in each corner facing into the corner. Their documentation even has a pretty photo with floor markings illustrating how to do this.

    Remember, it's 2m where possible, not 2m at all times.
    IF they want a recovery, they are going to have to junk many of these regulations, or it just ain;'t happening.

    Social distanced pubs? what publican in his right mind is going re-open under those circumstances. Ditto for thousands of businesses.

    Right now....this is a dead cat bounce, into which Sunak is soon going to inject millions of workers.

  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Nigelb said:

    Manufacturers can do scale by using common components in both where possible while using other components where it isn't possible. As they already do!

    Indeed. I can only speak for the industry I have experience in (electronics) but I presume it's not to different for any form of manufacturing; almost all efficiencies of scale come from bulk purchasing a limited number of components. When working on a new product one of the overriding design goals is always to use components that are already in use in another model, where and when that is possible without compromising functionality.

    There is an additional manufacturing cost involved in building two models rather then one, but if they employ all the same major components that cost is fairly trivial.

    An example people will be familiar with is Samsung mobile phones. A 'Galaxy so-and-so' that you buy in the UK may well have completely different internals from a US or Chinese phone of apparently the same model. Would it be cheaper for Samsung to have one universal design? Yes, but not enough to offset the benefits they see in having varying designs for each market.

    The idea that any slight change to a design instantly kills volume efficiency is not remotely correct. When manufacturing at very large volumes the opposite often becomes true; it's sensible to have multiple, varying designs so that an interruption in supply of a critical part doesn't kill your entire output stone dead.

    (and.. first post! Hello everyone!)
    There is, though, surely something of a difference between the US, Chinese and European markets... and a new, somehow unique UK one ?

    And welcome.

    Why?

    Japanese have their own market. And the Japanese are quite capable of selling to Europe. And the Japanese are quite capable of selling to the USA and China. And the Japanese are quite capable of setting their own laws that suit themselves or having their own models of products that aren't sold elsewhere (some of which can then go on to be exported later).

    Why are we incapable of doing something similar? Why do you have such a low view of our country that we can't be like a European version of Japan?
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,322
    JonathanD said:

    reports suggest Johnson is now bottling out of June 01 start for schools.

    Wouldn't surprise me. In a quiet moment on impulse a couple of days ago, I put up this petition:

    http://chng.it/mpmDqnwpKy

    and mentioned it in a single post on a couple of local FB groups covering my ward, more as an expression of personal opinion that might interest ward residents than anything else. 100 people signed within hours and I was swamped with comments - a couple of people were keen to resume, but nearly everyone else said "Let's do it carerfully when there's a consensus even if it takes longer".
    Parents of school age children or just general residents?

    A friend who is a teacher ran a survey of their school parents and had a 70% approval for reopening in June.
    Who knows? I don't know more than a handful of the respondents (Change.org gives you a list of the names), so it's just people in my area who happened to see the FB post. I don't in the least claim it as represerntative (even a voodoo poll is advertised more widely), but I was struck by how quickly people signed up. There's quite a bit of concern, I think.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,298
    edited May 2020
    MattW said:


    Improvise.

    Years ago I found I could get an entire carriage to myself by reciting the Koran loudly on a train.

    #PartOfTobyYoung'sFreeSpeechUnion
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,831


    The worst news came for me this week, the train companies are getting rid of first class for the foreseeable future.

    How the feck am I supposed to get to work without a first class section?

    I feel your pain - I'm all for the classless society as someone once said but they haven't travelled from London to Penzance.

    That journey, in a comfortable first class seat, is very pleasant. Plenty of free food and drink on offer from the moment you set foot (with a good hour to spare hopefully) in the First Class Lounge at Paddington.

    One thing I used to enjoy which wasn't free was the Dining car on the Cornish Riviera. If you were in First and travelling past Plymouth, you were invited to your seat for the second sitting and served your four-course lunch as the train was out of Exeter and heading along the coast through Dawlish so a great view as well,

    As the dining and buffet was going on into Cornwall no rush to push you out at Plymouth so plenty of time to enjoy a final coffee before returning to your seat.

    The only way to travel...
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    eek said:

    No. Factories can manufacture to more than just one spec and do all the time. That's how Asian manufacturers can export across the whole globe, they understand the spec and manufacture to that. One factory can produce more than one spec of product.

    Yes, and the products made for sale in the EU have to adhere to the legal trading standards set by the EU. Brexiteers insist that won't apply to Britain after we leave. Its bollocks and they know it.

    Not that we plan on downgrading EU standards of course. So they insist. So adhering to said EU standards which we choose to have as UK standards would be a good plan. Which would mean easy access to the EEA, no border down the Irish Sea etc etc. But can't have that because wazzocks.

    If we want to vary our standards we will be able to do so. Companies already make a plethora of models of products, if they want to manufacture a GB model of a product to be sold in GB then there is no reason they can't do that while still also manufacturing EU models to be sold in the EU.
    Ever heard of benefits of scale (you may remember it from such things as the pin manufacturing in Adam Smiths Wealth of Nations). Unless you think Britain should have poorer quality goods how do you think savings would be made?
    Manufacturers can do scale by using common components in both where possible while using other components where it isn't possible. As they already do!

    Its remarkable how car companies for instance can manufacture Vauxhall specification cars for the UK and manufacture Opel specification cars for the EU. And they did even when we were in the EU because the Vauxhall brand suited the UK.
    If you ask Vauxhall could they build their cars cheaper if they didnt have to do LHD and RHD models, what would their answer be?
    Does it matter?

    They are capable of doing both models. Just as any variance in our standards will see manufacturers capable of producing multiple models.

    Manufacturers already do produce multiple models. What matters is whether consumer demand is there.
    Yes not all of us have unlimited money so prefer things cheaper when there is no particular benefit to lots of separate standards, it is the consumer who loses.
    A bit. But Lhd vs rhd is rather a good point: it is an existing example of a UK spec which is about as awkward and expensive as one can easily imagine, but which manufacturing seems to cope with ok.
    Cope is an apt choice of word. No one would have designed it like this, it is a quirk of history that costs everyone that can no longer be cheaply solved.

    Why look to create more of those scenarios?
    Well, because you don't want rules imposed on you by external parties. That is not an argument I have any sympathy with, but the claim that manufacturing just can't produce things to a separate UK spec, "and I know this because I am an expert," is just demolished by the fact that we can have any vehicle we like in RHD without paying a premium over what LHD costs.
    Rules are imposed on all beings on this planet by all sorts of external forces. I dont try and fight that reality.

    I have never claimed people cant produce something to a UK spec. It obviously just depends on not making the spec impossible. I am pointing out that there is an economic cost to consumers from having various standards and on top of that we are losing a trade deal with the worlds largest single market in order to have the right to impose that cost on ourselves.
    Of course that's the case. So the only reason to have a particularly different spec is if people think there's a very good reason to want a different spec. But if people do want a different spec and are prepared to pay for it, then why shouldn't that be an option?

    And it cuts both ways. It might not just be legalising something not legal in Europe, it could also be the reverse. If we wish to have higher environmental standards than Europe, thus potentially making some European products illegal, why should we not have the right to do that?
    You value rights above the economy and practicality. On such a question for me the rights are completely trivial compared to the economic and practical benefits of common standards. There is a trade off and we will never agree.

    Those posters saying companies "cant" produce a UK product are clearly wrong. I think you are equally wrong in valuing abstract non useful rights ahead of the economy and businesses.
    Absolutely I do rights must always come first.

    Though I don't for one second think that the two are that contradictory either. I'm glad you agree that producing a UK product is clearly possible, but it would also only happen if there is demand for it - and if there is demand for it then why shouldn't it happen?
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,831
    JonathanD said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)


    but lifts remain the big obstacle to a large-scale return as well as toilets and other communal areas.

    Government guidance for lifts are one person in each corner facing into the corner. Their documentation even has a pretty photo with floor markings illustrating how to do this.

    Remember, it's 2m where possible, not 2m at all times.
    Yes that's fine but that doesn't work in a large office block with thousands of workers on different floors. Even with a full complement of lifts (including Express lifts), the numbers of people needing to be moved in the morning and evening (and at lunch time) often mean queues forming.

    It wouldn't work in the average Las Vegas Strip hotel either from recollection.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,654

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    eek said:

    No. Factories can manufacture to more than just one spec and do all the time. That's how Asian manufacturers can export across the whole globe, they understand the spec and manufacture to that. One factory can produce more than one spec of product.

    Yes, and the products made for sale in the EU have to adhere to the legal trading standards set by the EU. Brexiteers insist that won't apply to Britain after we leave. Its bollocks and they know it.

    Not that we plan on downgrading EU standards of course. So they insist. So adhering to said EU standards which we choose to have as UK standards would be a good plan. Which would mean easy access to the EEA, no border down the Irish Sea etc etc. But can't have that because wazzocks.

    If we want to vary our standards we will be able to do so. Companies already make a plethora of models of products, if they want to manufacture a GB model of a product to be sold in GB then there is no reason they can't do that while still also manufacturing EU models to be sold in the EU.
    Ever heard of benefits of scale (you may remember it from such things as the pin manufacturing in Adam Smiths Wealth of Nations). Unless you think Britain should have poorer quality goods how do you think savings would be made?
    Manufacturers can do scale by using common components in both where possible while using other components where it isn't possible. As they already do!

    Its remarkable how car companies for instance can manufacture Vauxhall specification cars for the UK and manufacture Opel specification cars for the EU. And they did even when we were in the EU because the Vauxhall brand suited the UK.
    If you ask Vauxhall could they build their cars cheaper if they didnt have to do LHD and RHD models, what would their answer be?
    Does it matter?

    They are capable of doing both models. Just as any variance in our standards will see manufacturers capable of producing multiple models.

    Manufacturers already do produce multiple models. What matters is whether consumer demand is there.
    Yes not all of us have unlimited money so prefer things cheaper when there is no particular benefit to lots of separate standards, it is the consumer who loses.
    A bit. But Lhd vs rhd is rather a good point: it is an existing example of a UK spec which is about as awkward and expensive as one can easily imagine, but which manufacturing seems to cope with ok.
    Cope is an apt choice of word. No one would have designed it like this, it is a quirk of history that costs everyone that can no longer be cheaply solved.

    Why look to create more of those scenarios?
    Well, because you don't want rules imposed on you by external parties. That is not an argument I have any sympathy with, but the claim that manufacturing just can't produce things to a separate UK spec, "and I know this because I am an expert," is just demolished by the fact that we can have any vehicle we like in RHD without paying a premium over what LHD costs.
    Rules are imposed on all beings on this planet by all sorts of external forces. I dont try and fight that reality.

    I have never claimed people cant produce something to a UK spec. It obviously just depends on not making the spec impossible. I am pointing out that there is an economic cost to consumers from having various standards and on top of that we are losing a trade deal with the worlds largest single market in order to have the right to impose that cost on ourselves.
    Of course that's the case. So the only reason to have a particularly different spec is if people think there's a very good reason to want a different spec. But if people do want a different spec and are prepared to pay for it, then why shouldn't that be an option?

    And it cuts both ways. It might not just be legalising something not legal in Europe, it could also be the reverse. If we wish to have higher environmental standards than Europe, thus potentially making some European products illegal, why should we not have the right to do that?
    You value rights above the economy and practicality. On such a question for me the rights are completely trivial compared to the economic and practical benefits of common standards. There is a trade off and we will never agree.

    Those posters saying companies "cant" produce a UK product are clearly wrong. I think you are equally wrong in valuing abstract non useful rights ahead of the economy and businesses.
    Absolutely I do rights must always come first.

    Though I don't for one second think that the two are that contradictory either. I'm glad you agree that producing a UK product is clearly possible, but it would also only happen if there is demand for it - and if there is demand for it then why shouldn't it happen?
    There was individual demand for both betamax and VHS but society would have been better with one common standard.
  • Options
    ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649

    Had word today that a major & extremely well funded UK university is rolling out a big redunacy scheme, god only know what will happen to the mid / lower tier institutions.

    That magic money forest is going to need some more harvesting.

    I wrote on here last week that a few friends work in the university/private education sectors and a lot of them were bracing for job losses.
    The lack of international students is key here. The government bear considerable responsibility for this as their strategy for higher education was one of greater international reach. Will they try and walk away and blame the universities for doing exactly that? There will be fireworks if they try to and don’t admit to their culpability, at least in part.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,322
    edited May 2020

    reports suggest Johnson is now bottling out of June 01 start for schools.

    Wouldn't surprise me. In a quiet moment on impulse a couple of days ago, I put up this petition:

    http://chng.it/mpmDqnwpKy

    and mentioned it in a single post on a couple of local FB groups covering my ward, more as an expression of personal opinion that might interest ward residents than anything else. 100 people signed within hours and I was swamped with comments - a couple of people were keen to resume, but nearly everyone else said "Let's do it carerfully when there's a consensus even if it takes longer".
    swamped with comments?? How many comments.??? as ever there are two different schools of thought on this, not sure which has more support.
    About 80, including people commenting on comments. All notably civil, recognising the different schools of thought. There was one grumpy person who said that as I was Labour it should be ignored, but everyone else was up for a discussion. There wasn't all that much disagreement - the range was from "let's wait till there's a consensus" toi "let's leave it to parents to weigh up".Half a dozen were especially worried about pre-schoolers as they felt that it was unrealistic to expect their 3-year-old not to run around boisterously and cannon into other kids.

    On the council, we were discussing the similar problem that hospitals are designed for speed and efficiency, which means long narrow corridors, packed waiting areas, etc. Resdesign for social distancing would drastically reduce throughput.

    It's genuinely difficult, and the best I can come up is a shift system.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,046
    ukpaul said:

    Had word today that a major & extremely well funded UK university is rolling out a big redunacy scheme, god only know what will happen to the mid / lower tier institutions.

    That magic money forest is going to need some more harvesting.

    I wrote on here last week that a few friends work in the university/private education sectors and a lot of them were bracing for job losses.
    The lack of international students is key here. The government bear considerable responsibility for this as their strategy for higher education was one of greater international reach. Will they try and walk away and blame the universities for doing exactly that? There will be fireworks if they try to and don’t admit to their culpability, at least in part.
    Its a bubble overdue a burst.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited May 2020
    JonathanD said:

    reports suggest Johnson is now bottling out of June 01 start for schools.

    Wouldn't surprise me. In a quiet moment on impulse a couple of days ago, I put up this petition:

    http://chng.it/mpmDqnwpKy

    and mentioned it in a single post on a couple of local FB groups covering my ward, more as an expression of personal opinion that might interest ward residents than anything else. 100 people signed within hours and I was swamped with comments - a couple of people were keen to resume, but nearly everyone else said "Let's do it carerfully when there's a consensus even if it takes longer".
    Parents of school age children or just general residents?

    A friend who is a teacher ran a survey of their school parents and had a 70% approval for reopening in June.
    It's the scared witless parents and teachers that shout the loudest and get the most attention in all of this. In reality, I would imagine that the parents split in the following fashion:

    FOR OPENING:

    *Parents of children without underlying health conditions, who have some awareness of the stats and know that healthy children are at incredibly low risk of falling seriously ill with this disease
    *Parents who are also reasonably young and fit themselves, and therefore at little more risk of succumbing to the disease than their children
    *Families with no medically vulnerable people at home
    *Those who cannot work from home and are desperate to get back to work
    *Parents concerned that their children are really suffering from a reduction in quality and quantity of education, lack of their normal routine and separation from their friends

    AGAINST OPENING:

    *Parents with healthy children who have not comprehended the very low level of risk that Covid poses to them (either because they are unaware of the statistics, or don't believe them, or are so very frightened of the virus that they can't accept any specific risk from it at all)
    *Parents of medically vulnerable children, or who are vulnerable themselves, or have other vulnerable people to consider at home
    *Those who think that remote education is working well for their children
    *Those who aren't bothered whether it does or not, and/or find life easier when they don't have to get the kids ready for school everyday
    *Those who don't work or can do so long-term from home, and are content to babysit their children indefinitely

    Perhaps if the Government can get the year groups back that it wants, then the parents who really want to send their children back to school will, the others won't, and thus the numbers actually presenting for lessons will be sufficiently reduced to make implementation of social distancing measures that much easier? Thus, in the short-term, everyone wins.

    The real crunch will come when we get to September.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    eek said:

    No. Factories can manufacture to more than just one spec and do all the time. That's how Asian manufacturers can export across the whole globe, they understand the spec and manufacture to that. One factory can produce more than one spec of product.

    Yes, and the products made for sale in the EU have to adhere to the legal trading standards set by the EU. Brexiteers insist that won't apply to Britain after we leave. Its bollocks and they know it.

    Not that we plan on downgrading EU standards of course. So they insist. So adhering to said EU standards which we choose to have as UK standards would be a good plan. Which would mean easy access to the EEA, no border down the Irish Sea etc etc. But can't have that because wazzocks.

    If we want to vary our standards we will be able to do so. Companies already make a plethora of models of products, if they want to manufacture a GB model of a product to be sold in GB then there is no reason they can't do that while still also manufacturing EU models to be sold in the EU.
    Ever heard of benefits of scale (you may remember it from such things as the pin manufacturing in Adam Smiths Wealth of Nations). Unless you think Britain should have poorer quality goods how do you think savings would be made?
    Manufacturers can do scale by using common components in both where possible while using other components where it isn't possible. As they already do!

    Its remarkable how car companies for instance can manufacture Vauxhall specification cars for the UK and manufacture Opel specification cars for the EU. And they did even when we were in the EU because the Vauxhall brand suited the UK.
    If you ask Vauxhall could they build their cars cheaper if they didnt have to do LHD and RHD models, what would their answer be?
    Does it matter?

    They are capable of doing both models. Just as any variance in our standards will see manufacturers capable of producing multiple models.

    Manufacturers already do produce multiple models. What matters is whether consumer demand is there.
    Yes not all of us have unlimited money so prefer things cheaper when there is no particular benefit to lots of separate standards, it is the consumer who loses.
    A bit. But Lhd vs rhd is rather a good point: it is an existing example of a UK spec which is about as awkward and expensive as one can easily imagine, but which manufacturing seems to cope with ok.
    Cope is an apt choice of word. No one would have designed it like this, it is a quirk of history that costs everyone that can no longer be cheaply solved.

    Why look to create more of those scenarios?
    Well, because you don't want rules imposed on you by external parties. That is not an argument I have any sympathy with, but the claim that manufacturing just can't produce things to a separate UK spec, "and I know this because I am an expert," is just demolished by the fact that we can have any vehicle we like in RHD without paying a premium over what LHD costs.
    Rules are imposed on all beings on this planet by all sorts of external forces. I dont try and fight that reality.

    I have never claimed people cant produce something to a UK spec. It obviously just depends on not making the spec impossible. I am pointing out that there is an economic cost to consumers from having various standards and on top of that we are losing a trade deal with the worlds largest single market in order to have the right to impose that cost on ourselves.
    Of course that's the case. So the only reason to have a particularly different spec is if people think there's a very good reason to want a different spec. But if people do want a different spec and are prepared to pay for it, then why shouldn't that be an option?

    And it cuts both ways. It might not just be legalising something not legal in Europe, it could also be the reverse. If we wish to have higher environmental standards than Europe, thus potentially making some European products illegal, why should we not have the right to do that?
    You value rights above the economy and practicality. On such a question for me the rights are completely trivial compared to the economic and practical benefits of common standards. There is a trade off and we will never agree.

    Those posters saying companies "cant" produce a UK product are clearly wrong. I think you are equally wrong in valuing abstract non useful rights ahead of the economy and businesses.
    Absolutely I do rights must always come first.

    Though I don't for one second think that the two are that contradictory either. I'm glad you agree that producing a UK product is clearly possible, but it would also only happen if there is demand for it - and if there is demand for it then why shouldn't it happen?
    There was individual demand for both betamax and VHS but society would have been better with one common standard.
    There was individual demand for both VHS and DVDs but should society have stuck with the VHS standard because it was already the common standard so no need to go for DVDs?
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    Now remember when all the tech bros shut down early & saying work from home for at least the rest of the year (some forever). This again signals that smart people dont think there is a vaccine or this thing reducing to minimal levels anytime soon.
    The worst news came for me this week, the train companies are getting rid of first class for the foreseeable future.

    How the feck am I supposed to get to work without a first class section?
    Helicopter?
  • Options
    ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    You have to wonder if the top-tier universities might get a taste for this? You don;t have to spend so much on maintaining your physical base, and can expand your enrollment dramatically.

    I read an interview with an education expert last week in New York Magazine who said this could be the future. Students fly in for a month or two of face to face, do the rest of the year remotely. He said it would only work for the big-name schools but it would work for them quite well.
    This is ‘a big thing’, it’s going to impact in all sorts of ways on education. Given the small age gap between the undergrads and the A Level students how on earth are exam boards going to respond?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,298

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    Now remember when all the tech bros shut down early & saying work from home for at least the rest of the year (some forever). This again signals that smart people dont think there is a vaccine or this thing reducing to minimal levels anytime soon.
    The worst news came for me this week, the train companies are getting rid of first class for the foreseeable future.

    How the feck am I supposed to get to work without a first class section?
    Helicopter?
    No, a helicopter pilot told me years ago that flying by helicopter really is dangerous, and when things even go slightly wrong they fall like a stone from the sky and there's bugger all you can do to stop it.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,046

    JonathanD said:

    reports suggest Johnson is now bottling out of June 01 start for schools.

    Wouldn't surprise me. In a quiet moment on impulse a couple of days ago, I put up this petition:

    http://chng.it/mpmDqnwpKy

    and mentioned it in a single post on a couple of local FB groups covering my ward, more as an expression of personal opinion that might interest ward residents than anything else. 100 people signed within hours and I was swamped with comments - a couple of people were keen to resume, but nearly everyone else said "Let's do it carerfully when there's a consensus even if it takes longer".
    Parents of school age children or just general residents?

    A friend who is a teacher ran a survey of their school parents and had a 70% approval for reopening in June.
    It's the scared witless parents and teachers that shout the loudest and get the most attention in all of this. In reality, I would imagine that the parents split in the following fashion:

    FOR OPENING:

    *Parents of children without underlying health conditions, who have some awareness of the stats and know that healthy children are at incredibly low risk of falling seriously ill with this disease
    *Parents who are also reasonably young and fit themselves, and therefore at little more risk of succumbing to the disease than their children
    *Families with no medically vulnerable people at home
    *Those who cannot work from home and are desperate to get back to work
    *Parents concerned that their children are really suffering from a reduction in quality and quantity of education, lack of their normal routine and separation from their friends

    AGAINST OPENING:

    *Parents with healthy children who have not comprehended the very low level of risk that Covid poses to them (either because they are unaware of the statistics, or don't believe them, or are so very frightened of the virus that they can't accept any specific risk from it at all)
    *Parents of medically vulnerable children, or who are vulnerable themselves, or have other vulnerable people to consider at home
    *Those who think that remote education is working well for their children
    *Those who aren't bothered whether it does or not, and/or find life easier when they don't have to get the kids ready for school everyday
    *Those who don't work or can do so long-term from home, and are content to babysit their children indefinitely

    Perhaps if the Government can get the year groups back that it wants, then the parents who really want to send their children back to school will, the others won't, and thus the numbers actually presenting for lessons will be sufficiently reduced to make implementation of social distancing measures that much easier? Thus, in the short-term, everyone wins.

    The real crunch will come when we get to September.
    Does anyone know which countries have restarted schools ?
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,831


    What Johnson and Sunak shut down, they will have the devil's own job opening up.

    And what if there's a cases upsurge in the meantime???? but R!! R!!

    It's all about that magic word - "confidence"- and that's both health confidence and economic confidence. People will spend if they think their job is safe and secure and they will continue earning at or slightly above what they are currently earning.

    What do you think Services and Manufacturing PMI will be on Thursday morning?

  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    reports suggest Johnson is now bottling out of June 01 start for schools.

    Wouldn't surprise me. In a quiet moment on impulse a couple of days ago, I put up this petition:

    http://chng.it/mpmDqnwpKy

    and mentioned it in a single post on a couple of local FB groups covering my ward, more as an expression of personal opinion that might interest ward residents than anything else. 100 people signed within hours and I was swamped with comments - a couple of people were keen to resume, but nearly everyone else said "Let's do it carerfully when there's a consensus even if it takes longer".
    Would surprise me completely and I'm not being disrespectful but 100 people is nothing special for an online petition.

    I'd say barring some very bad news there's next to no chance now of the June start for schools being scrapped. Anecdotally but far from unique our daughter was trying to be brave but was really struggling in not seeing her friends. Her school have now been in touch to confirm the date they'll be re-opening (later in the week not 1 June). She is counting down the days til she can go back as if she was counting down the days to her birthday/Christmas, to tell her now that she's not going back after all would be absolutely devastating to her.

    Its not going to happen.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,161
    Carl Heneghan, professor of evidence-based medicine at the University of Oxford, said that there would be a sporadic rise and fall in deaths over the next four to six weeks but he would not expect to find coronavirus listed in the ONS death data by the end of June.

    Telegraph
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    Now remember when all the tech bros shut down early & saying work from home for at least the rest of the year (some forever). This again signals that smart people dont think there is a vaccine or this thing reducing to minimal levels anytime soon.
    The worst news came for me this week, the train companies are getting rid of first class for the foreseeable future.

    How the feck am I supposed to get to work without a first class section?
    Helicopter?
    No, a helicopter pilot told me years ago that flying by helicopter really is dangerous, and when things even go slightly wrong they fall like a stone from the sky and there's bugger all you can do to stop it.
    Oh, OK. Chauffeur-driven Rolls Royce then. The roads are atypically quiet nowadays, after all.
  • Options
    BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    You have to wonder if the top-tier universities might get a taste for this? You don;t have to spend so much on maintaining your physical base, and can expand your enrollment dramatically.

    I read an interview with an education expert last week in New York Magazine who said this could be the future. Students fly in for a month or two of face to face, do the rest of the year remotely. He said it would only work for the big-name schools but it would work for them quite well.
    Possibly, but that's surely contingent on the subject? If you can get all the library resources as well as the tuition online then this might work for a lot of arts subjects, but sciency types are still going to need the regular use of laboratory facilities.
    welcome to my world - we need 300 hours of labs and the guidance is that its the skills not the assessment that's most use. Throw in social distancing in labs and it gets *fun*.

    FWIW, we've already had exactly the same comms/decision as Cambridge. 'Blended' learning, with big lectures delivered online then face to face delivery of seminars, workshops, labs etc.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,298

    BREAKING: Cambridge confirms ‘no face-to-face lectures during the next academic year’

    Lectures and exams will be conducted virtually

    In an email sent to Senior Tutors today (19th May), it was announced that the University of Cambridge plans to move all “face-to-face lectures” online in the next academic year, 2020/21.

    Alice Benton, the Head of Education services, states in the email that the “General Board’s Education Committee” has “agreed that, since it is highly likely that rigid social distancing will be required throughout the next academic year, there will be no face-to-face lectures next year.”

    “The decision has been taken to provide a degree of certainty to facilitate Faculties and Departments when planning for educational delivery next academic year”.

    Lectures will be live-streamed, recorded and made available on Moodle, while there are plans for lecture theatres to be used for small group teaching in line with social distancing requirements: “Faculties and Departments should continue to plan for face-to-face delivery of seminars, workshops and small group teaching”.

    In reference to Michaelmas exams, Benton also notes that it is ‘highly unlikely these examinations will be able to take place in examination halls’. She suggests faculties adapt to this scenario accordingly.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/19/cambridge-confirms-no-face-to-face-lectures-during-the-next-academic-year-137712

    Now remember when all the tech bros shut down early & saying work from home for at least the rest of the year (some forever). This again signals that smart people dont think there is a vaccine or this thing reducing to minimal levels anytime soon.
    The worst news came for me this week, the train companies are getting rid of first class for the foreseeable future.

    How the feck am I supposed to get to work without a first class section?
    Helicopter?
    No, a helicopter pilot told me years ago that flying by helicopter really is dangerous, and when things even go slightly wrong they fall like a stone from the sky and there's bugger all you can do to stop it.
    Oh, OK. Chauffeur-driven Rolls Royce then. The roads are atypically quiet nowadays, after all.
    The Woodhead Pass and Snake Pass are a nightmare for cars for my commute.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,576

    Exam done. I think it went well. Next one on Thursday: EU law... :D

    Good luck 👍
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Exam done. I think it went well. Next one on Thursday: EU law... :D

    Well done. Good luck next time too.
  • Options
    novanova Posts: 525
    Andy_JS said:
    Curiously, in the doctored Keir Starmer video last week, the reasons given for the lack of prosecutions were the exact opposite of political correctness.

    And yes, I do realise there is more to it, but it's a lot more complex than Priti Patel is suggesting.
This discussion has been closed.