Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Who loves Dom?

SystemSystem Posts: 8,258
edited May 23 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Who loves Dom?

25 January 2016 is not a date that has gone down in history. Despite that, the events of that day were critical to Britain voting to leave the EU, with all that’s meant since. That morning, Dominic Cummings was summoned to a meeting that was intended to remove him from running the Vote Leave campaign.

Read the full story here


«13456711

Comments

  • FishingFishing Posts: 802
    I thought he was supposed to want to resign soon anyway for some kind of mystery operation?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 802
    "But most of all, Cummings is guilty of that greatest of British sins: hypocrisy. "

    Why is that a particularly British sin?

    I'd say it's a human one.

    Or our greatest one?

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,199
    I cannot get too excited over this. Cummings can keep his job because the rules only apply to the little people (cf Jenrick and Boris himself); it was a long time ago; it is a bank holiday weekend; Boris will remember the fates of previous Prime Ministers forced to sack their top SpAds: May, Cameron and Brown soon fell.

    On the other hand, Cummings has now become the story; he does not seem to have been much use in dealing with the pandemic; Boris will soon be on the wrong side of the Atlantic to protect Cummings. Since we cannot bet on it, I am happy to wait and see.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 6,430
    edited May 23
    Really, if it was OK for two people with coronavirus symptoms, having just had close contact with other confirmed cases, to travel from one end of the country to the other in order to deliver their possibly infected child into the care of elderly relatives, it's difficult to imagine anything that wouldn't have been OK.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 18,502
    edited May 23
    Morning, All. And another fine bright one. OK for those like me who have a garden, albeit small and/or access to a park, but if one is in a tower block on a big estate the urge to get well away must be night on irresistible.

    On topic,I get the impression that for todays 'hero' rules are for other people!
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 2,974
    'Stay Home' was a terrible slogan. It induced paranoia and, from that, we now have a massive agoraphobic and haphephobic problem in this country.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,199
    Fishing said:

    "But most of all, Cummings is guilty of that greatest of British sins: hypocrisy. "

    Why is that a particularly British sin?

    I'd say it's a human one.

    Or our greatest one?

    It is a decades old trope (whatever trope means).
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 2,974
    edited May 23
    But if hypocrisy is a venial sin then I'm not in a position to criticise Dom ... on this one.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,199
    Chris said:

    Really, if it was OK for two people with coronavirus symptoms, having just had close contact with other confirmed cases, to travel from one end of the country to the other in order to deliver their possibly infected child into the care of elderly relatives, it's difficult to imagine anything that wouldn't have been OK.

    Yes but that's not the question. It is whether Cummings can keep his job, not whether he's a complete cock who broke all the rules.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 6,430

    Chris said:

    Really, if it was OK for two people with coronavirus symptoms, having just had close contact with other confirmed cases, to travel from one end of the country to the other in order to deliver their possibly infected child into the care of elderly relatives, it's difficult to imagine anything that wouldn't have been OK.

    Yes but that's not the question. It is whether Cummings can keep his job, not whether he's a complete cock who broke all the rules.
    Why isn't it the question?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 802

    'Stay Home' was a terrible slogan. It induced paranoia and, from that, we now have a massive agoraphobic and haphephobic problem in this country.

    I agree.

    "Get Fit" would have been much better.

    That's the one thing that people can do to reduce their likelihood of dying from coronavirus, and be much less likely to suffer from a whole lot of other diseases as well.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,199
    Fishing said:

    'Stay Home' was a terrible slogan. It induced paranoia and, from that, we now have a massive agoraphobic and haphephobic problem in this country.

    I agree.

    "Get Fit" would have been much better.

    That's the one thing that people can do to reduce their likelihood of dying from coronavirus, and be much less likely to suffer from a whole lot of other diseases as well.
    That was how Mike Ashley justified trying to keep Sports Direct open.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,199
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Really, if it was OK for two people with coronavirus symptoms, having just had close contact with other confirmed cases, to travel from one end of the country to the other in order to deliver their possibly infected child into the care of elderly relatives, it's difficult to imagine anything that wouldn't have been OK.

    Yes but that's not the question. It is whether Cummings can keep his job, not whether he's a complete cock who broke all the rules.
    Why isn't it the question?
    Because we know the answer. He is.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 802

    Fishing said:

    'Stay Home' was a terrible slogan. It induced paranoia and, from that, we now have a massive agoraphobic and haphephobic problem in this country.

    I agree.

    "Get Fit" would have been much better.

    That's the one thing that people can do to reduce their likelihood of dying from coronavirus, and be much less likely to suffer from a whole lot of other diseases as well.
    That was how Mike Ashley justified trying to keep Sports Direct open.
    Yes, that's the other good thing - it doesn't destroy the economy.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 26,150
    edited May 23
    *seven words ?

    Or six words and an acronym.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 13,729
    I have to say, that Cummings is the architect of the lockdown policy has come as a bit of a shock to me. I thought Cummings was opposed to it and therefore not guilty of hypocrisy! Either way it's not good and he has to go.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 802
    Scott_xP said:
    Lying and denying worked for Blair for ten years.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 2,974
    Fishing said:

    'Stay Home' was a terrible slogan. It induced paranoia and, from that, we now have a massive agoraphobic and haphephobic problem in this country.

    I agree.

    "Get Fit" would have been much better.

    That's the one thing that people can do to reduce their likelihood of dying from coronavirus, and be much less likely to suffer from a whole lot of other diseases as well.
    Absolutely right.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 30,906
    Fishing said:

    "But most of all, Cummings is guilty of that greatest of British sins: hypocrisy. "

    Why is that a particularly British sin?

    I'd say it's a human one.

    Or our greatest one?

    You need to read Neal Stephenson's The Diamond Age.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 13,729
    I’m shocked to discover that the media talking heads are bemoaning the quarantine policy saying that it will damage the economy.

    They’re happy to destroy domestic businesses but they won’t stand for not being able to jet around the world as they please.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 2,974

    Fishing said:

    'Stay Home' was a terrible slogan. It induced paranoia and, from that, we now have a massive agoraphobic and haphephobic problem in this country.

    I agree.

    "Get Fit" would have been much better.

    That's the one thing that people can do to reduce their likelihood of dying from coronavirus, and be much less likely to suffer from a whole lot of other diseases as well.
    That was how Mike Ashley justified trying to keep Sports Direct open.
    If he hadn't been such a knob he'd have had a good case. Keeping fitness shops open with social distancing measures would have been smart. Garden centres likewise.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 18,502
    Fishing said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Lying and denying worked for Blair for ten years.
    How was he significantly different from other recent PM's? I'll grant you Iraq in advance!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 21,316
    Chris said:

    Really, if it was OK for two people with coronavirus symptoms, having just had close contact with other confirmed cases, to travel from one end of the country to the other in order to deliver their possibly infected child into the care of elderly relatives, it's difficult to imagine anything that wouldn't have been OK.

    No doubt half the country are asking the same question.

    As far as Cummings himself is concerned, I don’t really give a damn whether he goes or stays - but it’s hardly going to enhance the credibility of the government, or its pandemic messaging, if he remains.

    No doubt he’ll have his defenders, who will think it a demonstration of strength if Johnson retains him, but that kind of confrontational thinking is delusional for a government which needs the confidence of the whole nation.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 28,129
    edited May 23

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Really, if it was OK for two people with coronavirus symptoms, having just had close contact with other confirmed cases, to travel from one end of the country to the other in order to deliver their possibly infected child into the care of elderly relatives, it's difficult to imagine anything that wouldn't have been OK.

    Yes but that's not the question. It is whether Cummings can keep his job, not whether he's a complete cock who broke all the rules.
    Why isn't it the question?
    Because we know the answer. He is.
    I liked the answer, but I wonder on reflection whether you aren’t just a bit hard on complete cocks?

    ETA - Ummm, I mean severe. Not hard. Hard was the wrong word to choose.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 2,226
    What a shame Cummings is not a Cabinet member so there is no option of a "first out" betting frenzy.

    The other point about his nebulous position is that it makes it easy for Boris to sack him as one thing and then reemploy him as another thing after a fairly short interval.

    MPs could get May to sack Nick Timothy and whatever the other one was called because of her lack of a majority. Doesn't apply here. So this is a bit shit for Boris but not as bad as Mandelson's various transgressions were for Blair, and they didn't destroy him.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 802

    Fishing said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Lying and denying worked for Blair for ten years.
    How was he significantly different from other recent PM's? I'll grant you Iraq in advance!
    He was better at it.

    And he's a hero of a lot of the people who are gunning for Cummings.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 2,327
    Fishing said:

    And he's a hero of a lot of the people who are gunning for Cummings.

    Backbench Tory MPs ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 21,316
    Which government does this remind me of ?

    Cuomo, de Blasio blame ignorance, but not themselves, in wake of damning report
    https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/city-hall/story/2020/05/21/cuomo-de-blasio-blame-ignorance-but-not-themselves-in-wake-of-damning-report-1285383
    ... Gov. Andrew Cuomo and Mayor Bill de Blasio deflected blame Thursday in the wake of a bombshell study confirming that New York’s elected leaders stalled when it was time to take action on battling the spread of the coronavirus.

    An analysis by Columbia University released Wednesday night concluded that if New York acted even one week earlier in ordering people to stay home and mandating social distancing, it would have spared more than 17,000 lives in the New York metro area....
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,199
    One dog that has not yet barked -- what would be fatal for Cummings is if his trip proved literally fatal for anyone he infected. No doubt amateur data scientists will be spending the bank holiday weekend poring over the Covid-19 figures to see if a spike followed Cummings up the M1.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Anyone snitched on their neighbours today ?

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,199
    edited May 23
    deleted -- @Scott_xP made the point better.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 2,226

    One dog that has not yet barked -- what would be fatal for Cummings is if his trip proved literally fatal for anyone he infected. No doubt amateur data scientists will be spending the bank holiday weekend poring over the Covid-19 figures to see if a spike followed Cummings up the M1.

    I was thinking that; his uncle popped his clogs the other day.

    Also

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/22/boris-johnson-reduce-huaweis-role-britains-5g-network-wake-coronavirus/

    This news seems to have been released about midnight. The deadest of dead cats, and meat and drink to tory backbench headbangers, designed to buy them off from going after Dom.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 21,316
    Remdesivir is not a miracle cure, but a proper RCT shows it’s not worse than useless like chloroquine.

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 2,221
    What about the broader implications of a Cummings exit? I had a conversation with a colleague a few days ago about the extension to the Brexit transition, and said that there were no signs the government would change its stance and accept an extension next month. The only signal that a change of heart was coming, I suggested, would be if Johnson got rid of Cummings, since in my view Johnson's personal commitment to a hard Brexit is pretty minimal, while Cummings seems wedded to what he would call a 'clean break' from Brussels, regardless of the economic cost. In that context, and assuming Cummings does go (I agree with David that he is toast) then the timing is interesting.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 6,025
    Isn't there a history of controversial political advisers being sacked but still being involved behind the scenes?

    I'd imagine Dom goes, continues to advise in secret from home and then perhaps returns in full form once CV has receded...
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 7,304
    He'll survive if his friends stand firmly with him.

    He does have friends.....?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 18,502
    Fishing said:

    Fishing said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Lying and denying worked for Blair for ten years.
    How was he significantly different from other recent PM's? I'll grant you Iraq in advance!
    He was better at it.

    And he's a hero of a lot of the people who are gunning for Cummings.
    I suspect a lot of people were, like me, horrified by his active support for Bush in Iraq. Saddam was unquestionably one of the most vicious rulers of the 20th C but no-one can really say that Iraq, and the region in general are that much better off. British and American meddling in Greater Arabia and it's neighbours over the past 150 or so years has rarely turned out well.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,199

    What about the broader implications of a Cummings exit? I had a conversation with a colleague a few days ago about the extension to the Brexit transition, and said that there were no signs the government would change its stance and accept an extension next month. The only signal that a change of heart was coming, I suggested, would be if Johnson got rid of Cummings, since in my view Johnson's personal commitment to a hard Brexit is pretty minimal, while Cummings seems wedded to what he would call a 'clean break' from Brussels, regardless of the economic cost. In that context, and assuming Cummings does go (I agree with David that he is toast) then the timing is interesting.

    Boris might not be committed but most of the Cabinet are from the Brexit wing so I'm not sure how much difference it would make.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    What about the broader implications of a Cummings exit? I had a conversation with a colleague a few days ago about the extension to the Brexit transition, and said that there were no signs the government would change its stance and accept an extension next month. The only signal that a change of heart was coming, I suggested, would be if Johnson got rid of Cummings, since in my view Johnson's personal commitment to a hard Brexit is pretty minimal, while Cummings seems wedded to what he would call a 'clean break' from Brussels, regardless of the economic cost. In that context, and assuming Cummings does go (I agree with David that he is toast) then the timing is interesting.

    True dat - take Dom away and Boris is Theresa May on donuts.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,097
    If it was Dominic Cummings’ slogan, and it has the tinge of paranoia that marks all his campaigns, he still seems not to realise that words have consequences.

    Right now it is quite evident that camp Cummings is lying to us. The story makes no sense at all on his account. How could a man too ill to look after a child drive 250 miles?

    And the previous accounts given by him and his wife (presumably on a paid basis) are wholly inconsistent with it. His wife talks about playing with their son while they were both ill. How is that possible if the grandparents were looking after the child in a different house? (Never mind that it slipped both of their minds to mention that they were not in London and, indeed, left the reader with the strong impression that was where they were.)

    From this point, Boris Johnson has a power calculation to make. Is he stronger with a Dominic Cummings who is going to be an emblem of this government’s hypocrisy or without him?

    And then there are the questions of what the Prime Minister knew and when, and why he did nothing, and whether lockdown policy was tweaked so that the flight of the Cummings was retrospectively blessed. If it was, all hell would break loose.

    This story is going to have legs, even if Dominic Cummings resigns.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 28,303
    Fishing said:

    I thought he was supposed to want to resign soon anyway for some kind of mystery operation?

    that was last year
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 21,316
    The latest Trumpscience...

    Nobel laureates and science groups demand NIH review decision to kill coronavirus grant
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/preposterous-77-nobel-laureates-blast-nih-decision-cancel-coronavirus-grant-demand
    .... On 24 April, NIH informed the nonprofit EcoHealth Alliance, led by wildlife disease specialist Peter Daszak, that it was ending a grant, first awarded in 2014 and renewed in 2019 because it no longer aligned with the agency’s priorities. The move came after Conservative U.S. politicians and media suggested—without evidence—that the coronavirus causing the pandemic escaped from a laboratory in Wuhan, China, that employs a Chinese virologist who had received funding from the grant. The termination also came 1 week after President Donald Trump, when asked about the project at a press conference, said: “We will end that grant very quickly.”

    In their letter, the Nobel laureates say they “are gravely concerned” about that decision. “We believe that this action sets a dangerous precedent by interfering in the conduct of science and jeopardizes public trust in the process of awarding federal funds for research. … Now is precisely the time when we need to support this kind of research if we aim to control the pandemic and prevent subsequent ones.”

    They write that “despite the high relevance of the studies to the current pandemic, and despite the very high priority score that his application for renewal had received during peer review, the NIH informed Dr. Daszak and his colleagues that the grant was being terminated because ‘NIH does not believe that the current project outcomes align with the program goals and agency priorities.’ Such explanations are preposterous under the circumstances.”...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 28,303
    Next we will have almost dies , had litres and litres of champagne and managed to survive
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,097
    If only it had been Mamma Mia. I’ve been angry and sad at the things that you’ve done...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 28,303

    But if hypocrisy is a venial sin then I'm not in a position to criticise Dom ... on this one.

    Typical Tories, lying cheating unprincipled scumbags. Not even the moral fibre to fall on their sword when caught red handed, the rats have to wriggle and squirm, most unedifying but not unexpected.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 3,497
    Scott_xP said:
    We know what Priti has in mind when she refers to 'penalties'. Dom beware!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 26,150

    If only it had been Mamma Mia. I’ve been angry and sad at the things that you’ve done...
    Never mind the music - he was, by his own account, supposed to be self isolating from his children - hence the journey - yet was seen running around with one of them.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 28,303
    We will here all sorts of squirrels from the Tory fanboys/girls on here, it started last night. Expect shedloads of guff about how bad Scottish NHS is and other such Scottish lies.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 21,316
    I see Hertz filed for bankruptcy.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 802

    Fishing said:

    Fishing said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Lying and denying worked for Blair for ten years.
    How was he significantly different from other recent PM's? I'll grant you Iraq in advance!
    He was better at it.

    And he's a hero of a lot of the people who are gunning for Cummings.
    I suspect a lot of people were, like me, horrified by his active support for Bush in Iraq. Saddam was unquestionably one of the most vicious rulers of the 20th C but no-one can really say that Iraq, and the region in general are that much better off. British and American meddling in Greater Arabia and it's neighbours over the past 150 or so years has rarely turned out well.
    Arguably the instability in the Gulf arose from Wilson's preemptive and short-sighted withdrawal as part of the East of Suez policy in the late sixties, and the American refusal to fill the power vacuum we left behind.

    British and American meddling has not turned out well, but neither has leaving them to their own devices.

    Some problems have no solution. If there is a list of them, then the Middle East is at the top.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 15,656

    If it was Dominic Cummings’ slogan, and it has the tinge of paranoia that marks all his campaigns, he still seems not to realise that words have consequences.

    Right now it is quite evident that camp Cummings is lying to us. The story makes no sense at all on his account. How could a man too ill to look after a child drive 250 miles?

    And the previous accounts given by him and his wife (presumably on a paid basis) are wholly inconsistent with it. His wife talks about playing with their son while they were both ill. How is that possible if the grandparents were looking after the child in a different house? (Never mind that it slipped both of their minds to mention that they were not in London and, indeed, left the reader with the strong impression that was where they were.)

    From this point, Boris Johnson has a power calculation to make. Is he stronger with a Dominic Cummings who is going to be an emblem of this government’s hypocrisy or without him?

    And then there are the questions of what the Prime Minister knew and when, and why he did nothing, and whether lockdown policy was tweaked so that the flight of the Cummings was retrospectively blessed. If it was, all hell would break loose.

    This story is going to have legs, even if Dominic Cummings resigns.

    Johnson is too weak to sack him.

    In the unlikely event that he goes though, it probably strengthens the kamikaze Brexit section of the cabinet.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 21,316
    Nigelb said:

    Which government does this remind me of ?

    Cuomo, de Blasio blame ignorance, but not themselves, in wake of damning report
    https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/city-hall/story/2020/05/21/cuomo-de-blasio-blame-ignorance-but-not-themselves-in-wake-of-damning-report-1285383
    ... Gov. Andrew Cuomo and Mayor Bill de Blasio deflected blame Thursday in the wake of a bombshell study confirming that New York’s elected leaders stalled when it was time to take action on battling the spread of the coronavirus.

    An analysis by Columbia University released Wednesday night concluded that if New York acted even one week earlier in ordering people to stay home and mandating social distancing, it would have spared more than 17,000 lives in the New York metro area....

    Though to be fair to Cuomo, he was a damn sight more proactive than de Blasio.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 2,221

    If only it had been Mamma Mia. I’ve been angry and sad at the things that you’ve done...
    Maybe this incident will be his Waterloo?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 2,221
    TGOHF666 said:

    What about the broader implications of a Cummings exit? I had a conversation with a colleague a few days ago about the extension to the Brexit transition, and said that there were no signs the government would change its stance and accept an extension next month. The only signal that a change of heart was coming, I suggested, would be if Johnson got rid of Cummings, since in my view Johnson's personal commitment to a hard Brexit is pretty minimal, while Cummings seems wedded to what he would call a 'clean break' from Brussels, regardless of the economic cost. In that context, and assuming Cummings does go (I agree with David that he is toast) then the timing is interesting.

    True dat - take Dom away and Boris is Theresa May on donuts.
    Ha great description!
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Scott was up at 5.41am posting tweets about Dom on bank holiday weekend.

    Lolol.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 2,226
    IanB2 said:

    If only it had been Mamma Mia. I’ve been angry and sad at the things that you’ve done...
    Never mind the music - he was, by his own account, supposed to be self isolating from his children - hence the journey - yet was seen running around with one of them.
    Are you saying he has met his Waterloo?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 21,316

    Scott_xP said:
    We know what Priti has in mind when she refers to 'penalties'. Dom beware!
    To be renamed Sub ?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,199

    If it was Dominic Cummings’ slogan, and it has the tinge of paranoia that marks all his campaigns, he still seems not to realise that words have consequences.

    Right now it is quite evident that camp Cummings is lying to us. The story makes no sense at all on his account. How could a man too ill to look after a child drive 250 miles?

    And the previous accounts given by him and his wife (presumably on a paid basis) are wholly inconsistent with it. His wife talks about playing with their son while they were both ill. How is that possible if the grandparents were looking after the child in a different house? (Never mind that it slipped both of their minds to mention that they were not in London and, indeed, left the reader with the strong impression that was where they were.)

    From this point, Boris Johnson has a power calculation to make. Is he stronger with a Dominic Cummings who is going to be an emblem of this government’s hypocrisy or without him?

    And then there are the questions of what the Prime Minister knew and when, and why he did nothing, and whether lockdown policy was tweaked so that the flight of the Cummings was retrospectively blessed. If it was, all hell would break loose.

    This story is going to have legs, even if Dominic Cummings resigns.

    The trouble is, from Number 10's point of view, that if Cummings is thrown overboard then questions might be reopened into Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick's gallivanting round the country ending up in his third home, and even how Boris himself came to convalesce at Chequers when Downing Street is within walking distance of St Thomas' Hospital. It might be safer to let Cummings take the heat and hope it blows over.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 21,316

    If only it had been Mamma Mia. I’ve been angry and sad at the things that you’ve done...
    Maybe this incident will be his Waterloo?
    Breaking up is never easy...
  • ChrisChris Posts: 6,430
    IanB2 said:

    If only it had been Mamma Mia. I’ve been angry and sad at the things that you’ve done...
    Never mind the music - he was, by his own account, supposed to be self isolating from his children - hence the journey - yet was seen running around with one of them.
    I thought the excuse for travelling to county Durham was that he needed his parents to take care of the child. Doesn't that imply he and his wife took the child up there with them?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 28,303
    Nigelb said:

    I see Hertz filed for bankruptcy.

    UK or USA
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,097
    Chris said:

    IanB2 said:

    If only it had been Mamma Mia. I’ve been angry and sad at the things that you’ve done...
    Never mind the music - he was, by his own account, supposed to be self isolating from his children - hence the journey - yet was seen running around with one of them.
    I thought the excuse for travelling to county Durham was that he needed his parents to take care of the child. Doesn't that imply he and his wife took the child up there with them?
    One question that strikes me as increasingly important the more I think about it is the question of comfort breaks. Did they stop at a service station on the way?

    It’s a long drive with a small child not to stop. Did they, while Coronapositive, stop off and come into contact with others?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 59,313
    edited May 23
    Dom's been an effective political operator. But this stinks to high heaven, he'll go and fast I think now. The questions for No 10 will remain.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 28,303

    TGOHF666 said:

    What about the broader implications of a Cummings exit? I had a conversation with a colleague a few days ago about the extension to the Brexit transition, and said that there were no signs the government would change its stance and accept an extension next month. The only signal that a change of heart was coming, I suggested, would be if Johnson got rid of Cummings, since in my view Johnson's personal commitment to a hard Brexit is pretty minimal, while Cummings seems wedded to what he would call a 'clean break' from Brussels, regardless of the economic cost. In that context, and assuming Cummings does go (I agree with David that he is toast) then the timing is interesting.

    True dat - take Dom away and Boris is Theresa May on donuts.
    Ha great description!
    Harry is lone Tory agent onsite at present , struggling till the other usual suspects get out of their scratchers. They were on late fighting a losing battle last night.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 3,497
    edited May 23

    If it was Dominic Cummings’ slogan, and it has the tinge of paranoia that marks all his campaigns, he still seems not to realise that words have consequences.

    Right now it is quite evident that camp Cummings is lying to us. The story makes no sense at all on his account. How could a man too ill to look after a child drive 250 miles?

    And the previous accounts given by him and his wife (presumably on a paid basis) are wholly inconsistent with it. His wife talks about playing with their son while they were both ill. How is that possible if the grandparents were looking after the child in a different house? (Never mind that it slipped both of their minds to mention that they were not in London and, indeed, left the reader with the strong impression that was where they were.)

    From this point, Boris Johnson has a power calculation to make. Is he stronger with a Dominic Cummings who is going to be an emblem of this government’s hypocrisy or without him?

    And then there are the questions of what the Prime Minister knew and when, and why he did nothing, and whether lockdown policy was tweaked so that the flight of the Cummings was retrospectively blessed. If it was, all hell would break loose.

    This story is going to have legs, even if Dominic Cummings resigns.

    My fear is without Cummings an even bigger vacuum appears at the heart of government. This is dangerous at any time, particularly now. It is plain to see Johnson is clueless and Cummings is the power behind the throne. Cummings simply cannot leave.

    As for this becoming a scandal that personally envelopes Johnson. No such luck. Earlier this week we had the news that Johnson would not be prosecuted over the Arcuri business. An announcement shrouded in the smokescreen of Johnson and Arcuri 'probably' having a sexual liaison. Who cares about that? The evidence was pointing to an abuse of public funds however despite the obvious, Johnson is unassailable, he knows it, but has he got the front or the bottle to tough it out for Dom? Probably not.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 21,316
    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    I see Hertz filed for bankruptcy.

    UK or USA
    USA.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 26,150
    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    If only it had been Mamma Mia. I’ve been angry and sad at the things that you’ve done...
    Never mind the music - he was, by his own account, supposed to be self isolating from his children - hence the journey - yet was seen running around with one of them.
    Are you saying he has met his Waterloo?
    People need love, but love isn't easy, so Boris needs to be a super trouper, forget 'hasta manana' and say 'so long'. That's the name of the game here, when all is said and done.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 6,430

    If it was Dominic Cummings’ slogan, and it has the tinge of paranoia that marks all his campaigns, he still seems not to realise that words have consequences.

    Right now it is quite evident that camp Cummings is lying to us. The story makes no sense at all on his account. How could a man too ill to look after a child drive 250 miles?

    And the previous accounts given by him and his wife (presumably on a paid basis) are wholly inconsistent with it. His wife talks about playing with their son while they were both ill. How is that possible if the grandparents were looking after the child in a different house? (Never mind that it slipped both of their minds to mention that they were not in London and, indeed, left the reader with the strong impression that was where they were.)

    From this point, Boris Johnson has a power calculation to make. Is he stronger with a Dominic Cummings who is going to be an emblem of this government’s hypocrisy or without him?

    And then there are the questions of what the Prime Minister knew and when, and why he did nothing, and whether lockdown policy was tweaked so that the flight of the Cummings was retrospectively blessed. If it was, all hell would break loose.

    This story is going to have legs, even if Dominic Cummings resigns.

    The trouble is, from Number 10's point of view, that if Cummings is thrown overboard then questions might be reopened into Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick's gallivanting round the country ending up in his third home, and even how Boris himself came to convalesce at Chequers when Downing Street is within walking distance of St Thomas' Hospital. It might be safer to let Cummings take the heat and hope it blows over.
    Conversely, if it was acceptable for Cummings to behave like that, shouldn't Neil Ferguson be reinstated?

    Both of them appear to have contravened the regulations, but in practical terms Ferguson's actions seem to have been far less irresponsible in every way. In Ferguson's case, no one involved should have been self-isolating, there was no long-distance travel and no endangerment of people at higher risk.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 15,656
    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    If only it had been Mamma Mia. I’ve been angry and sad at the things that you’ve done...
    Never mind the music - he was, by his own account, supposed to be self isolating from his children - hence the journey - yet was seen running around with one of them.
    Are you saying he has met his Waterloo?
    When everything is said and done...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 59,313

    Chris said:

    IanB2 said:

    If only it had been Mamma Mia. I’ve been angry and sad at the things that you’ve done...
    Never mind the music - he was, by his own account, supposed to be self isolating from his children - hence the journey - yet was seen running around with one of them.
    I thought the excuse for travelling to county Durham was that he needed his parents to take care of the child. Doesn't that imply he and his wife took the child up there with them?
    One question that strikes me as increasingly important the more I think about it is the question of comfort breaks. Did they stop at a service station on the way?

    It’s a long drive with a small child not to stop. Did they, while Coronapositive, stop off and come into contact with others?
    If you're prepared to take the almost unbelievable step of driving over 250 miles whilst corona positive I doubt you'd have too many qualms about using motorway services rather than some roadside bushes.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 6,430

    Chris said:

    IanB2 said:

    If only it had been Mamma Mia. I’ve been angry and sad at the things that you’ve done...
    Never mind the music - he was, by his own account, supposed to be self isolating from his children - hence the journey - yet was seen running around with one of them.
    I thought the excuse for travelling to county Durham was that he needed his parents to take care of the child. Doesn't that imply he and his wife took the child up there with them?
    One question that strikes me as increasingly important the more I think about it is the question of comfort breaks. Did they stop at a service station on the way?

    It’s a long drive with a small child not to stop. Did they, while Coronapositive, stop off and come into contact with others?
    If only the tracking app had been up and running, the answer to that question would have been on a database somewhere!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 898

    One dog that has not yet barked -- what would be fatal for Cummings is if his trip proved literally fatal for anyone he infected. No doubt amateur data scientists will be spending the bank holiday weekend poring over the Covid-19 figures to see if a spike followed Cummings up the M1.

    He's saved there by the government's incompetence. No contact tracing at the time, so no way to tie anyone's infection to using the same motorway services, or whatever.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,097
    One of the ABBA threads that got away was one, a couple of years ago, when Theresa May’s plan was struck in Cabinet and then immediately undermined by resignations. It had the working title “Chequers teeters”.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 28,303
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    IanB2 said:

    If only it had been Mamma Mia. I’ve been angry and sad at the things that you’ve done...
    Never mind the music - he was, by his own account, supposed to be self isolating from his children - hence the journey - yet was seen running around with one of them.
    I thought the excuse for travelling to county Durham was that he needed his parents to take care of the child. Doesn't that imply he and his wife took the child up there with them?
    One question that strikes me as increasingly important the more I think about it is the question of comfort breaks. Did they stop at a service station on the way?

    It’s a long drive with a small child not to stop. Did they, while Coronapositive, stop off and come into contact with others?
    If only the tracking app had been up and running, the answer to that question would have been on a database somewhere!
    They need that App running so they can find Boris. The invisible PM.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 21,316
    Nigelb said:

    If only it had been Mamma Mia. I’ve been angry and sad at the things that you’ve done...
    Maybe this incident will be his Waterloo?
    Breaking up is never easy...
    ... I know, but he has to go.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,097
    Pulpstar said:

    Chris said:

    IanB2 said:

    If only it had been Mamma Mia. I’ve been angry and sad at the things that you’ve done...
    Never mind the music - he was, by his own account, supposed to be self isolating from his children - hence the journey - yet was seen running around with one of them.
    I thought the excuse for travelling to county Durham was that he needed his parents to take care of the child. Doesn't that imply he and his wife took the child up there with them?
    One question that strikes me as increasingly important the more I think about it is the question of comfort breaks. Did they stop at a service station on the way?

    It’s a long drive with a small child not to stop. Did they, while Coronapositive, stop off and come into contact with others?
    If you're prepared to take the almost unbelievable step of driving over 250 miles whilst corona positive I doubt you'd have too many qualms about using motorway services rather than some roadside bushes.
    Well quite. But if they did, at that point any argument based on “well this was no risk to anyone outside the family” (which, by the way, is a rubbish argument because the point of the rules is to overrule even willing consent to the risks in order to reduce the spread of the disease) goes out the window.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 15,656
    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    I see Hertz filed for bankruptcy.

    UK or USA
    USA.
    Chapter 11?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 3,497
    malcolmg said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    IanB2 said:

    If only it had been Mamma Mia. I’ve been angry and sad at the things that you’ve done...
    Never mind the music - he was, by his own account, supposed to be self isolating from his children - hence the journey - yet was seen running around with one of them.
    I thought the excuse for travelling to county Durham was that he needed his parents to take care of the child. Doesn't that imply he and his wife took the child up there with them?
    One question that strikes me as increasingly important the more I think about it is the question of comfort breaks. Did they stop at a service station on the way?

    It’s a long drive with a small child not to stop. Did they, while Coronapositive, stop off and come into contact with others?
    If only the tracking app had been up and running, the answer to that question would have been on a database somewhere!
    They need that App running so they can find Boris. The invisible PM.
    The Kim Jong-un of Downing Street?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 26,150
    CNN on European-American tensions:

    The pandemic could reshape the world order. Trump's chaotic strategy is accelerating US losses

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/23/world/pandemic-world-order-trump-intl/index.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 21,316
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    I see Hertz filed for bankruptcy.

    UK or USA
    USA.
    Chapter 11?
    Yes.
    Hopefully this doesn’t have systemic effect on car loan finance...

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 5,069
    Scott_xP said:
    Evidently the last line is wrong. You will not face criminal sanction if you are in a high profile position in this country.

    And yet, someone was saying this week how little corruption there is here......

    A government talks about wanting to help the left behind, but the reality is that the people the police will actually fine during this crisis are the left behind, even the non elite professional classes will talk themselves out of fines with an apologetic explanation and an attempt at justification.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 1,574
    He is damaged, that's beyond doubt. But the discussion has problems. There is a huge contrast between the requirements of the regulations in March and the advice or rhetoric of government. For example there was and is no legal requirement about social distancing. All of that is advisory and unenforceable, just as, wrongly, there was no rule prohibiting dad dancing to Abba. The one and only test for leaving your home is 'reasonable excuse'.

    In the list of examples in the 2020 CV regulations (sec 6) there are general example'excuses' about medical need, ministers going to their church, shopping for necessities, exercise and all sorts. But there is no general 'excuse' provision in the examples for 'the needs of child care'; except very narrow ones. There should have been.

    Back In the real world for millions of people when schools and nurseries are closed, adults are working in odd and fragmented ways, and sometimes people have got or may have the virus the actual demands of child care is the absolute number one priority overriding all others.

    If I were responsible for a child and were ill in ways that meant I could not rely on looking after it, or thought there was a real risk that I could not, I would take whatever steps necessary for the child regardless of the consequences.

    If that is the case I have sympathy for Dominic and family. But the Abba dancing is a problem.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 28,303
    Pulpstar said:

    Dom's been an effective political operator. But this stinks to high heaven, he'll go and fast I think now. The questions for No 10 will remain.

    Given he was done before the Scottish CMO was hounded out of office, quite rightly , hard to see how the Tory fanboys on here can support this and raises questions about the state propaganda unit and other media outlets who were obviously too scared or ordered not to publish till they had time to mount a PR exercise and get the assistant CMO pronounce that you could travel in emergency with a child.
    Pathetic lying toerags.
  • The effect of this story has probably been felt now, so whether Cummings stays or goes is probably less important.

    It's the same effect not throwing out Williamson had on Corbyn. Even though it was eventually done (although not by Corbyn), the damage had been done.

    Unfortunately for Johnson, Starmer will make mincemeat of Cummings at PMQs over this.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 5,069

    Pulpstar said:

    Chris said:

    IanB2 said:

    If only it had been Mamma Mia. I’ve been angry and sad at the things that you’ve done...
    Never mind the music - he was, by his own account, supposed to be self isolating from his children - hence the journey - yet was seen running around with one of them.
    I thought the excuse for travelling to county Durham was that he needed his parents to take care of the child. Doesn't that imply he and his wife took the child up there with them?
    One question that strikes me as increasingly important the more I think about it is the question of comfort breaks. Did they stop at a service station on the way?

    It’s a long drive with a small child not to stop. Did they, while Coronapositive, stop off and come into contact with others?
    If you're prepared to take the almost unbelievable step of driving over 250 miles whilst corona positive I doubt you'd have too many qualms about using motorway services rather than some roadside bushes.
    Well quite. But if they did, at that point any argument based on “well this was no risk to anyone outside the family” (which, by the way, is a rubbish argument because the point of the rules is to overrule even willing consent to the risks in order to reduce the spread of the disease) goes out the window.
    Driving 250 miles without a stop when ill would also be no better than driving over the limit.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 28,303
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    I see Hertz filed for bankruptcy.

    UK or USA
    USA.
    Chapter 11?
    Yes.
    Hopefully this doesn’t have systemic effect on car loan finance...

    Chapter 11 is just to leave your debts , pension liabilities behind, they will be open tomorrow debt free.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,199
    Scott_xP said:
    Also available via the (PP owned) Betfair Sportsbook. I've had a small flutter on value grounds as for me it is more like 4/6, 6/4. Shadsy offers 1/2, 6/4 so Cummings fans should head for the Magic Sign.
Sign In or Register to comment.