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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The case for betting on a Trump victory in November

SystemSystem Posts: 11,683
edited June 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The case for betting on a Trump victory in November

If you don’t want Trump to win in November (which I think is most people on this site), then there is plenty of data out there to give you hope. The RCP national polling average has Biden’s lead over Trump at +7.1%. In key swing states, the RCP average also shows Biden leading in all 5 (FL, PA, WI, NC, AZ) and polls have suggested Biden is now competitive in states such as Ohio and Texas. Trump’s approval ratings continue to fall, with the RCP average showing a net disapproval of c. 11%. 

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Maybe he said it because he thinks that people who commit vandalism and attack the police are in fact thugs?
    What exactly should we call people who brutally and violently assault the police, if not “thugs”.

    Is there a preferred term? Legalistically-challenged elements? Largely peaceful violent attackers?
    Remember you can't say somebody was a fighter against a disease...now about that death of woke-ism....if anything, it is back and on steroids.
    I was certainly wrong about the death of Woke, however I do believe we are seeing its final, maddened, tertiary stages. It’s just a Q of how long it lasts and how much damage it does to the West
    Cancelling all police in a city...gonna be fascinating how that plays out. The yellow vested community officials going around telling people to be nice to another and please could you put that telly back in that shop otherwise I will have to take your name and ask you to attend a workshop.

    No business is going to set up there.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Maybe he said it because he thinks that people who commit vandalism and attack the police are in fact thugs?
    What exactly should we call people who brutally and violently assault the police, if not “thugs”.

    Is there a preferred term? Legalistically-challenged elements? Largely peaceful violent attackers?
    Remember you can't say somebody was a fighter against a disease...now about that death of woke-ism....if anything, it is back and on steroids.
    I was certainly wrong about the death of Woke, however I do believe we are seeing its final, maddened, tertiary stages. It’s just a Q of how long it lasts and how much damage it does to the West
    Cancelling all police in a city...gonna be fascinating how that plays out. The yellow vested community officials going around telling people to be nice to another and please could you put that telly back in that shop otherwise I will have to take your name and ask you to attend a workshop.
    it is strongly reminiscent of the maddest ideas of the counter cultural left in the late 60s.... just before it all collapsed
    "The only disease right now is racism"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52959292

    People have literally lost their mind.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,226
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Trump is still likely to lose, because of the terrible economic situation this year more than anything else.

    But my God the Wokeists are demonstrating precisely why he was elected in the first place.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,226
    eadric said:

    If I was an American I would be sorely tempted to vote for Trump, even though I detest him as a person and revile him as a politician

    The alternative, amazingly, is quite possibly worse. A demented Biden leading a frenzied Democrat party which will achieve nothing because it is rotten with all this identity politics and crazed by racial strife, now playing out on the streets

    Astonishingly, Trump begins to look like the safe option. He’s mad and bad, but there won’t be anarchy

    Pity America

    You've lost the plot now. Bonkers.
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    eadric said:

    Astonishingly, Trump begins to look like the safe option. He’s mad and bad, but there won’t be anarchy

    Pity America

    You may not have noticed, but Trump's America is going up in flames.....

    There is nothing safe about Trump.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    edited June 2020

    Foxy said:

    https://twitter.com/TristanCorkPost/status/1269649703970496513?s=19

    I am surprised that the statue was only put up in 1895. What was it that caused the people of Bristol to suddenly want to commemorate a pioneer of the slave trade?

    Was it like the slew of Confederate statues put up in the 1920s and renaming of schools In the deep south in the 1960's?

    What kind of mentality is it that comes up with the idea of adding a plaque, when the obvious course of action was to take it down? Especially given its location in one of the most multicultural cities in the country.

    One thing I’d be pretty sure about is that it’s not going back up, and that in itself is vindication of the protestors’ actions.
    Well adding a plaque may have been a silly idea. I'd probably have been on the side of those thinking it should be moved, say to a museum. But I remember being taught at school not to knock the table over when I didn't get my way. And that anger, even if righteous and correct, didn't mean I could smash things up.

    Vindication is the wrong word as well. Without starting a 'first they come for X' contest, getting lucky that the first targets 'deserved' it really does open the door to a slippery slope.

    kle4 said:

    Well I hope it works, or they will look very very stupid in a few years time.
    You think it will take years?
    I was going for optimistic.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,974

    eadric said:

    If I was an American I would be sorely tempted to vote for Trump, even though I detest him as a person and revile him as a politician

    The alternative, amazingly, is quite possibly worse. A demented Biden leading a frenzied Democrat party which will achieve nothing because it is rotten with all this identity politics and crazed by racial strife, now playing out on the streets

    Astonishingly, Trump begins to look like the safe option. He’s mad and bad, but there won’t be anarchy

    Pity America

    You've lost the plot now. Bonkers.
    Disagree, beginning to sound very sensible. UK heading same way.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,744

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Maybe he said it because he thinks that people who commit vandalism and attack the police are in fact thugs?
    What exactly should we call people who brutally and violently assault the police, if not “thugs”.

    Is there a preferred term? Legalistically-challenged elements? Largely peaceful violent attackers?
    Remember you can't say somebody was a fighter against a disease...now about that death of woke-ism....if anything, it is back and on steroids.
    I was certainly wrong about the death of Woke, however I do believe we are seeing its final, maddened, tertiary stages. It’s just a Q of how long it lasts and how much damage it does to the West
    Cancelling all police in a city...gonna be fascinating how that plays out. The yellow vested community officials going around telling people to be nice to another and please could you put that telly back in that shop otherwise I will have to take your name and ask you to attend a workshop.

    No business is going to set up there.
    FPT

    Sounds like they are moving to British style policing with consent, rather than US style policing with militarisation.

    https://time.com/5848705/disband-and-replace-minneapolis-police/

    Without knowing the full details as its an emerging story, sounds perfectly sensible to me, and presumably welcomed by all those who think UK policing is significantly better than US policing.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,641
    eadric said:

    If I was an American I would be sorely tempted to vote for Trump, even though I detest him as a person and revile him as a politician

    The alternative, amazingly, is quite possibly worse. A demented Biden leading a frenzied Democrat party which will achieve nothing because it is rotten with all this identity politics and crazed by racial strife, now playing out on the streets

    Astonishingly, Trump begins to look like the safe option. He’s mad and bad, but there won’t be anarchy

    Pity America

    Err, the current anarchy is on his watch!
  • Options
    “The third theme really has two parts – a law and order part, with voters scared about criminality, which is likely to play well for Trump; and a police reform issue, which may help Biden for Black turnout but where Trump has not made given his opponent so much in the way to persuade independents that Trump is viscerally anti-reform.”

    I do not understand this sentence.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,744
    eadric said:

    If I was an American I would be sorely tempted to vote for Trump, even though I detest him as a person and revile him as a politician

    The alternative, amazingly, is quite possibly worse. A demented Biden leading a frenzied Democrat party which will achieve nothing because it is rotten with all this identity politics and crazed by racial strife, now playing out on the streets

    Astonishingly, Trump begins to look like the safe option. He’s mad and bad, but there won’t be anarchy

    Pity America

    Shy Trumpers out tonight I see.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953
    eadric said:

    Sure, but it plays to his “strengths” such as they are

    That while the violence erupted, on his watch, he ran away and hid.

    Yeah, vote for that guy...
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    Please don't let it be Trump, please.
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Well I hope it works, or they will look very very stupid in a few years time.
    I'm curious if they are going to sack everyone in the current department and hire completely new people? Or is this just a rebranding exercise.
    Yes, it seems impossible that it is as dramatic as suggested.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    Scott_xP said:
    Bullcrap. I think Boris has said racist things in the past, but that is really a stretch. It's like overly contrived explanations for terms which are supposedly acronyms (eg Port Out Starboard Home for Posh), it relies on far too much over interpretation of a single word so that someone can be condemned regardless of what they said or meant, by telling us they meant what we want them to mean. He cannot even defend himself because we're told it means that. I could counter the good professor by claiming, truthfully, that I have heard people use it to refer to white people but no doubt he would not be convinced.

    Christ, might as well say he's racist against indians for using the word thug because of its origin.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,197

    eadric said:

    Astonishingly, Trump begins to look like the safe option. He’s mad and bad, but there won’t be anarchy

    Pity America

    You may not have noticed, but Trump's America is going up in flames.....

    There is nothing safe about Trump.
    Our resident 'shockjock' is on air, and it looks like he plans on being super-controversial tonight.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,433
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,226
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    If I was an American I would be sorely tempted to vote for Trump, even though I detest him as a person and revile him as a politician

    The alternative, amazingly, is quite possibly worse. A demented Biden leading a frenzied Democrat party which will achieve nothing because it is rotten with all this identity politics and crazed by racial strife, now playing out on the streets

    Astonishingly, Trump begins to look like the safe option. He’s mad and bad, but there won’t be anarchy

    Pity America

    You've lost the plot now. Bonkers.
    I am trying to put myself in the shoes of a Middle American looking at these riots and the strange madness attaching to them

    This is a betting site, we are supposed to remove emotion

    Biden is an exceptionally weak candidate (worse than Hillary I think), and his party is tainted by all this violence.

    Trump has a better chance than the pollsters say, even if he is a piece of dreck
    I don't think Biden is worse candidate than Hillary. He represents a more decent America without even speaking. I doubt he will make the same assumptions about having, say, Wisconsin in the bag that HRC did (overruling her husband incidentally).

    I think Trump will win unfortunately.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    edited June 2020

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Maybe he said it because he thinks that people who commit vandalism and attack the police are in fact thugs?
    What exactly should we call people who brutally and violently assault the police, if not “thugs”.

    Is there a preferred term? Legalistically-challenged elements? Largely peaceful violent attackers?
    Remember you can't say somebody was a fighter against a disease...now about that death of woke-ism....if anything, it is back and on steroids.
    I was certainly wrong about the death of Woke, however I do believe we are seeing its final, maddened, tertiary stages. It’s just a Q of how long it lasts and how much damage it does to the West
    Cancelling all police in a city...gonna be fascinating how that plays out. The yellow vested community officials going around telling people to be nice to another and please could you put that telly back in that shop otherwise I will have to take your name and ask you to attend a workshop.
    it is strongly reminiscent of the maddest ideas of the counter cultural left in the late 60s.... just before it all collapsed
    "The only disease right now is racism"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52959292

    People have literally lost their mind.
    Poorly phrased at least. Would his support for the protests and anger at racism (of which he has certainly faced plenty) really have been diminished by not using the words 'only disease' whilst an actual disease is causing a lot of death, and instead saying, I don't know, 'we also must deal with the disease of racism, which is even more important' or something?

    Plenty would still not agree with him, but couldn't dismiss his comments then as being silly in talking about the 'only disease' right now.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,744
    kle4 said:

    Please don't let it be Trump, please.

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Well I hope it works, or they will look very very stupid in a few years time.
    I'm curious if they are going to sack everyone in the current department and hire completely new people? Or is this just a rebranding exercise.
    Yes, it seems impossible that it is as dramatic as suggested.
    Well the city council member writing for Time advocating the police force being replaced says "We have a talented, thoughtful police chief who has attempted some important steps. He has fired officers for significant abuses only to have his decisions overturned and those officers reinstated by arbitrators."

    So Id imagine the police chief may well stay the same if they are interested.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,996
    eadric said:

    If I was an American I would be sorely tempted to vote for Trump, even though I detest him as a person and revile him as a politician

    The alternative, amazingly, is quite possibly worse. A demented Biden leading a frenzied Democrat party which will achieve nothing because it is rotten with all this identity politics and crazed by racial strife, now playing out on the streets

    Astonishingly, Trump begins to look like the safe option. He’s mad and bad, but there won’t be anarchy

    Pity America

    You’ve finally jumped the shark Sean.

    The drink has addled your once bright mind.
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    eadric said:

    Astonishingly, Trump begins to look like the safe option. He’s mad and bad, but there won’t be anarchy

    Pity America

    You may not have noticed, but Trump's America is going up in flames.....

    There is nothing safe about Trump.
    Our resident 'shockjock' is on air, and it looks like he plans on being super-controversial tonight.
    Quite possibly. I think I will go and make a cuppa...
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2020
    Of course it is all well and good saying change a US police department to a UK style one, the huge difference of course is in the UK only a very limited number of individuals have guns and in cities that is a select number of hardcore of criminals.

    In the US, huge numbers of people have guns, and of course the criminals in cities routinely do.

    It is why the police in the US end up killing ~1000 a year, but less than a 100 a unarmed. The police certainly have an issue with racial discrimination, but they also have an issue with I am going into a situation expecting an armed individual and more than likely find one.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970
    Scott_xP said:

    eadric said:

    Sure, but it plays to his “strengths” such as they are

    That while the violence erupted, on his watch, he ran away and hid.

    Yeah, vote for that guy...
    He's also the guy who says "Law and Order!"
    But doesn't seem to provide any.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    https://twitter.com/TristanCorkPost/status/1269649703970496513?s=19

    I am surprised that the statue was only put up in 1895. What was it that caused the people of Bristol to suddenly want to commemorate a pioneer of the slave trade?

    Was it like the slew of Confederate statues put up in the 1920s and renaming of schools In the deep south in the 1960's?

    Height of the empire (near enough), looking back nostalgically at significant earlier figures?
    Proposed by the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchor_Society

    a charitable body formed in 1769 in honour of Colston and which has been raising money for good causes ever since (for 250 years).
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    eadric said:

    Astonishingly, Trump begins to look like the safe option. He’s mad and bad, but there won’t be anarchy

    Pity America

    You may not have noticed, but Trump's America is going up in flames.....

    There is nothing safe about Trump.
    Our resident 'shockjock' is on air, and it looks like he plans on being super-controversial tonight.
    Well, I wouldn't call myself a shockjock per se...

    Oh, damn it, you mean someone else.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,974

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Maybe he said it because he thinks that people who commit vandalism and attack the police are in fact thugs?
    What exactly should we call people who brutally and violently assault the police, if not “thugs”.

    Is there a preferred term? Legalistically-challenged elements? Largely peaceful violent attackers?
    Remember you can't say somebody was a fighter against a disease...now about that death of woke-ism....if anything, it is back and on steroids.
    I was certainly wrong about the death of Woke, however I do believe we are seeing its final, maddened, tertiary stages. It’s just a Q of how long it lasts and how much damage it does to the West
    Cancelling all police in a city...gonna be fascinating how that plays out. The yellow vested community officials going around telling people to be nice to another and please could you put that telly back in that shop otherwise I will have to take your name and ask you to attend a workshop.

    No business is going to set up there.
    FPT

    Sounds like they are moving to British style policing with consent, rather than US style policing with militarisation.

    https://time.com/5848705/disband-and-replace-minneapolis-police/

    Without knowing the full details as its an emerging story, sounds perfectly sensible to me, and presumably welcomed by all those who think UK policing is significantly better than US policing.
    yes will work a treat when all the baddies are armed to the teeth with assault weapons, you must be pretty dumb to think this silly idea is sensible.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007
    Interesting article.

    With the protests and riots it is increasingly looking like the 1968 election, with Trump doing a Nixon and posing as the law and order candidate against the Democratic nominee, an amiable man who has held the post of Vice President, then Humphrey, now Biden.

    I agree the Republican base is still strong for Trump but Biden in turn will hope to win over independents and get high turnout from the black community, especially given recent events. As the article states where the relatively high number of Libertarian voters from 2016 could also be crucial.

    In 1968 Nixon beat Humphrey by just 0.7%
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited June 2020
    Sounds like they're gunning for Cromwell next, can't condone any of this - but he was a vandal himself tbh.
    It's the closest we've got to a Mao or Lenin statue in this country I think.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,744

    Of course it is all well and good saying change a US police department to a UK style one, the huge difference of course is in the UK only a very limited number of individuals have guns and in cities that is a hardcore of criminals.

    In the US, huge numbers of people have guns, and of course the criminals in cities absolutely do.

    Is it not worth a try? British police can respond very quickly to armed situations when needed, there is no reason a new Minneapolis police force cant have similar capability without the aggression, militarisation and unions protecting dodgy cops.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    kle4 said:

    eadric said:

    Astonishingly, Trump begins to look like the safe option. He’s mad and bad, but there won’t be anarchy

    Pity America

    You may not have noticed, but Trump's America is going up in flames.....

    There is nothing safe about Trump.
    Our resident 'shockjock' is on air, and it looks like he plans on being super-controversial tonight.
    Well, I wouldn't call myself a shockjock per se...

    Oh, damn it, you mean someone else.
    I think shockjocks need to have strong feelings, one way or the other.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,197

    eadric said:

    Astonishingly, Trump begins to look like the safe option. He’s mad and bad, but there won’t be anarchy

    Pity America

    You may not have noticed, but Trump's America is going up in flames.....

    There is nothing safe about Trump.
    Our resident 'shockjock' is on air, and it looks like he plans on being super-controversial tonight.
    Quite possibly. I think I will go and make a cuppa...
    I haven't separated my recycling for tomorrow's collection yet, so I am off to do that. At least that is rubbish I can deal with.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Bugger me. On artistic grounds the sooner that is dumped in the Thames the better.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,744
    malcolmg said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Maybe he said it because he thinks that people who commit vandalism and attack the police are in fact thugs?
    What exactly should we call people who brutally and violently assault the police, if not “thugs”.

    Is there a preferred term? Legalistically-challenged elements? Largely peaceful violent attackers?
    Remember you can't say somebody was a fighter against a disease...now about that death of woke-ism....if anything, it is back and on steroids.
    I was certainly wrong about the death of Woke, however I do believe we are seeing its final, maddened, tertiary stages. It’s just a Q of how long it lasts and how much damage it does to the West
    Cancelling all police in a city...gonna be fascinating how that plays out. The yellow vested community officials going around telling people to be nice to another and please could you put that telly back in that shop otherwise I will have to take your name and ask you to attend a workshop.

    No business is going to set up there.
    FPT

    Sounds like they are moving to British style policing with consent, rather than US style policing with militarisation.

    https://time.com/5848705/disband-and-replace-minneapolis-police/

    Without knowing the full details as its an emerging story, sounds perfectly sensible to me, and presumably welcomed by all those who think UK policing is significantly better than US policing.
    yes will work a treat when all the baddies are armed to the teeth with assault weapons, you must be pretty dumb to think this silly idea is sensible.
    How is the militarisation of the police working out for the US? Biggest jail population on the planet by miles and getting worse. Perhaps the answer is not to buy them more RPGs or tanks.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311

    Total BLM PR disaster today. The silent majority will not be impressed. It doesn’t matter that Churchill was a racist. His statue represents our nation’s finest hour, victory over fascism, not the man himself.

    Also historical figures are complicated. Gandhi was also a racist. Better cancel him too.
    A problem with all this is the assumption by the statute tearing down brigade that there is nothing in their own views, outlooks, way of life and so on that future generations will not think outrageous and unacceptable.

    How would we know?

    We can't see the future?

    Perhaps in two or three generations time it will be seen as a great crime to have gone on multi-flight gap year travel burning up carbon like there's no tomorrow?

    "However, isn't it ironic, Mr. Powers, that the very things you stand for - free love, swinging parties - are all now, in the Nineties, considered to be... evil? "
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kle4 said:

    eadric said:

    Astonishingly, Trump begins to look like the safe option. He’s mad and bad, but there won’t be anarchy

    Pity America

    You may not have noticed, but Trump's America is going up in flames.....

    There is nothing safe about Trump.
    Our resident 'shockjock' is on air, and it looks like he plans on being super-controversial tonight.
    Well, I wouldn't call myself a shockjock per se...

    Oh, damn it, you mean someone else.
    Sorry, you're just about the sanest poster on the site...
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2020

    Of course it is all well and good saying change a US police department to a UK style one, the huge difference of course is in the UK only a very limited number of individuals have guns and in cities that is a hardcore of criminals.

    In the US, huge numbers of people have guns, and of course the criminals in cities absolutely do.

    Is it not worth a try? British police can respond very quickly to armed situations when needed, there is no reason a new Minneapolis police force cant have similar capability without the aggression, militarisation and unions protecting dodgy cops.
    I don't agree with the US 2nd amendment, and the militarisation that you see routinely in US police forces is way OTT, but I wouldn't want to be a cop in the US without a firearm. And I don't imagine many people will.

    Here, again excluding a very small minority (that the police already have a decent idea about), the worst you come across is the odd hand gun. In the US, either via different states who have very lack laws or Mexico, the fire power criminals can get there hands on is frightening.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,996
    I still lean to Trumpton winning (largely because of my ultra pessimistic nature when it comes to politics), but there’s a flaw:

    PBers keep telling us that this all plays into Trump’s hands. Yet the polling says otherwise. Wouldn’t it have played into his tiny hands just a little bit by now?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    malcolmg said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Maybe he said it because he thinks that people who commit vandalism and attack the police are in fact thugs?
    What exactly should we call people who brutally and violently assault the police, if not “thugs”.

    Is there a preferred term? Legalistically-challenged elements? Largely peaceful violent attackers?
    Remember you can't say somebody was a fighter against a disease...now about that death of woke-ism....if anything, it is back and on steroids.
    I was certainly wrong about the death of Woke, however I do believe we are seeing its final, maddened, tertiary stages. It’s just a Q of how long it lasts and how much damage it does to the West
    Cancelling all police in a city...gonna be fascinating how that plays out. The yellow vested community officials going around telling people to be nice to another and please could you put that telly back in that shop otherwise I will have to take your name and ask you to attend a workshop.

    No business is going to set up there.
    FPT

    Sounds like they are moving to British style policing with consent, rather than US style policing with militarisation.

    https://time.com/5848705/disband-and-replace-minneapolis-police/

    Without knowing the full details as its an emerging story, sounds perfectly sensible to me, and presumably welcomed by all those who think UK policing is significantly better than US policing.
    yes will work a treat when all the baddies are armed to the teeth with assault weapons, you must be pretty dumb to think this silly idea is sensible.
    How is the militarisation of the police working out for the US? Biggest jail population on the planet by miles and getting worse. Perhaps the answer is not to buy them more RPGs or tanks.
    Isn't the problem they don't even have to buy it, they get given a bunch of surplus military equipment if they ask for it?

    Crazy if so.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,335
    An excellent piece.

    I'd also add the long and short campaign is crucial for Trump (and Biden).

    Biden cannot be drawn into the culture wars, or Trump will drag him down and beat him senseless with experience.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970

    Of course it is all well and good saying change a US police department to a UK style one, the huge difference of course is in the UK only a very limited number of individuals have guns and in cities that is a select number of hardcore of criminals.

    In the US, huge numbers of people have guns, and of course the criminals in cities routinely do.

    It is why the police in the US end up killing ~1000 a year, but less than a 100 a unarmed. The police certainly have an issue with racial discrimination, but they also have an issue with I am going into a situation expecting an armed individual and more than likely find one.

    Well indeed. This does however seem to be a move towards policing by consent rather than charging in guns blazing or abolishing the Police altogether.
    A difficult line to walk I would have thought.
    But better than kneeling on necks.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    Maggie Thatcher 1978-1990 IPSOS-MORI History

    Red is the Con VI lead
    Navy Blue is Maggie's Net Satisfaction lead over Callaghan, Foot then Kinnock
    Light Blue is her Personality lead over Callaghan, Foot then Kinnock




  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    IshmaelZ said:

    Bugger me. On artistic grounds the sooner that is dumped in the Thames the better.
    Seems a bit harsh. It's recognisably her at least, which is better than a lot of statues.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    I take it the PB racists who object to the toppling of Colston also objected to the toppling of Saddam or Lenin?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,974

    Of course it is all well and good saying change a US police department to a UK style one, the huge difference of course is in the UK only a very limited number of individuals have guns and in cities that is a hardcore of criminals.

    In the US, huge numbers of people have guns, and of course the criminals in cities absolutely do.

    Is it not worth a try? British police can respond very quickly to armed situations when needed, there is no reason a new Minneapolis police force cant have similar capability without the aggression, militarisation and unions protecting dodgy cops.
    lol, once a half dozen of the traffic wardens have been shot they will send for some weapons, cuckoo
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2020

    I take it the PB racists who object to the toppling of Colston also objected to the toppling of Saddam or Lenin?

    I absolutely object to the smashing up of Marx's grave. You can't compare our situation to countries without a functioning democracy.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    I take it the PB racists who object to the toppling of Colston also objected to the toppling of Saddam or Lenin?

    Yes, those are totally the same thing.

    Do you include as racists those who don't care if the statue were removed, or'd even support its removal, but don't agree that being frustrated at slow progress means criminal damage is totally fine?
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,974

    malcolmg said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Maybe he said it because he thinks that people who commit vandalism and attack the police are in fact thugs?
    What exactly should we call people who brutally and violently assault the police, if not “thugs”.

    Is there a preferred term? Legalistically-challenged elements? Largely peaceful violent attackers?
    Remember you can't say somebody was a fighter against a disease...now about that death of woke-ism....if anything, it is back and on steroids.
    I was certainly wrong about the death of Woke, however I do believe we are seeing its final, maddened, tertiary stages. It’s just a Q of how long it lasts and how much damage it does to the West
    Cancelling all police in a city...gonna be fascinating how that plays out. The yellow vested community officials going around telling people to be nice to another and please could you put that telly back in that shop otherwise I will have to take your name and ask you to attend a workshop.

    No business is going to set up there.
    FPT

    Sounds like they are moving to British style policing with consent, rather than US style policing with militarisation.

    https://time.com/5848705/disband-and-replace-minneapolis-police/

    Without knowing the full details as its an emerging story, sounds perfectly sensible to me, and presumably welcomed by all those who think UK policing is significantly better than US policing.
    yes will work a treat when all the baddies are armed to the teeth with assault weapons, you must be pretty dumb to think this silly idea is sensible.
    How is the militarisation of the police working out for the US? Biggest jail population on the planet by miles and getting worse. Perhaps the answer is not to buy them more RPGs or tanks.
    the baddies have them though? how do you solve that one, tell them they are naughty boys
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    edited June 2020
    Colston Primary School has been renamed as Cottam Gardens Primary School. As far as I know neither the Independent School. or the Girl's School which bear his name are changing their names.

    Colston Hall to be renamed at some point.

    I had wondered where the slavers were operating from in Scotland, and have just had a quick look at this helpful guide from The National Trust for Scotland.

    https://www.nts.org.uk/learn/downloads/Scotland and the SlaveTrade.pdf

    I haven't read Hugh Thomas's book, but I might now look out for it.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,996

    I take it the PB racists who object to the toppling of Colston also objected to the toppling of Saddam or Lenin?

    I absolutely object to the smashing up of Marx's grave.
    What about the Saddam and Lenin statues?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,226
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    If I was an American I would be sorely tempted to vote for Trump, even though I detest him as a person and revile him as a politician

    The alternative, amazingly, is quite possibly worse. A demented Biden leading a frenzied Democrat party which will achieve nothing because it is rotten with all this identity politics and crazed by racial strife, now playing out on the streets

    Astonishingly, Trump begins to look like the safe option. He’s mad and bad, but there won’t be anarchy

    Pity America

    You've lost the plot now. Bonkers.
    I am trying to put myself in the shoes of a Middle American looking at these riots and the strange madness attaching to them

    This is a betting site, we are supposed to remove emotion

    Biden is an exceptionally weak candidate (worse than Hillary I think), and his party is tainted by all this violence.

    Trump has a better chance than the pollsters say, even if he is a piece of dreck
    I don't think Biden is worse candidate than Hillary. He represents a more decent America without even speaking. I doubt he will make the same assumptions about having, say, Wisconsin in the bag that HRC did (overruling her husband incidentally).

    I think Trump will win unfortunately.
    To me he shows very clear signs of dementia, and also has a dubious record of groping women (at best). So he’s even worse than the dull, unlikeable, but competent Hillary

    I wonder if he will even make it to November (tho, to be fair, I wonder the same about Trump)

    It is surely the worst choice in a POTUS election ever?o
    Well, his veep choice is probably one of the most important in history.*


    * Obviously JFK's choice turned out to be particularly important.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,744
    edited June 2020
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Maybe he said it because he thinks that people who commit vandalism and attack the police are in fact thugs?
    What exactly should we call people who brutally and violently assault the police, if not “thugs”.

    Is there a preferred term? Legalistically-challenged elements? Largely peaceful violent attackers?
    Remember you can't say somebody was a fighter against a disease...now about that death of woke-ism....if anything, it is back and on steroids.
    I was certainly wrong about the death of Woke, however I do believe we are seeing its final, maddened, tertiary stages. It’s just a Q of how long it lasts and how much damage it does to the West
    Cancelling all police in a city...gonna be fascinating how that plays out. The yellow vested community officials going around telling people to be nice to another and please could you put that telly back in that shop otherwise I will have to take your name and ask you to attend a workshop.

    No business is going to set up there.
    FPT

    Sounds like they are moving to British style policing with consent, rather than US style policing with militarisation.

    https://time.com/5848705/disband-and-replace-minneapolis-police/

    Without knowing the full details as its an emerging story, sounds perfectly sensible to me, and presumably welcomed by all those who think UK policing is significantly better than US policing.
    yes will work a treat when all the baddies are armed to the teeth with assault weapons, you must be pretty dumb to think this silly idea is sensible.
    How is the militarisation of the police working out for the US? Biggest jail population on the planet by miles and getting worse. Perhaps the answer is not to buy them more RPGs or tanks.
    the baddies have them though? how do you solve that one, tell them they are naughty boys
    The met police here do a great job, very quick to respond to terrorists with guns with overwhelming quick force but dont treat a guy with a dodgy 20 the same as a guy with a suicide vest.

    And obviously the US should heavily restrict firearms.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I take it the PB racists who object to the toppling of Colston also objected to the toppling of Saddam or Lenin?

    Abroad is a foreign country. They do things differently there.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,616
    Presumably this is a repeat of RUC PSNI

    Night all
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970
    Pulpstar said:

    Sounds like they're gunning for Cromwell next, can't condone any of this - but he was a vandal himself tbh.
    It's the closest we've got to a Mao or Lenin statue in this country I think.

    Fun fact. The only other Cromwell statue is in Warrington.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,335
    Like I said..
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,226
    eadric said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sounds like they're gunning for Cromwell next, can't condone any of this - but he was a vandal himself tbh.
    It's the closest we've got to a Mao or Lenin statue in this country I think.

    Cromwell was a truly great man. Paved the way for English supremacy, provided the light for English democracy, and was cleverly firm but very fair with the Irish, from whom not a peep was heard for two centuries after his enlightened rule

    If they come for Oliver, I will form a human barrier
    Maybe he meant Thomas?
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,996
    I reckon it’s unlikely Colston is going back. I wasn’t even aware until today that we had a six foot hagiography of a slave trafficker in the centre of one of our core cities.

    Will their be much appetite in Brizzle to restore him to his pedestal? I doubt it.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007

    Like I said..
    Someone has reported the tweeter to the police
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    edited June 2020

    kle4 said:

    eadric said:

    Astonishingly, Trump begins to look like the safe option. He’s mad and bad, but there won’t be anarchy

    Pity America

    You may not have noticed, but Trump's America is going up in flames.....

    There is nothing safe about Trump.
    Our resident 'shockjock' is on air, and it looks like he plans on being super-controversial tonight.
    Well, I wouldn't call myself a shockjock per se...

    Oh, damn it, you mean someone else.
    Sorry, you're just about the sanest poster on the site...
    That's very kind, although I suspect with the collective obession with political minutiae I'm not sure any of us are totally sane...
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,996
    eadric said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sounds like they're gunning for Cromwell next, can't condone any of this - but he was a vandal himself tbh.
    It's the closest we've got to a Mao or Lenin statue in this country I think.

    Cromwell was a truly great man. Paved the way for English supremacy, provided the light for English democracy, and was cleverly firm but very fair with the Irish, from whom not a peep was heard for two centuries after his enlightened rule

    If they come for Oliver, I will form a human barrier
    Anyone know how to work the off switch?
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,744
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Maybe he said it because he thinks that people who commit vandalism and attack the police are in fact thugs?
    What exactly should we call people who brutally and violently assault the police, if not “thugs”.

    Is there a preferred term? Legalistically-challenged elements? Largely peaceful violent attackers?
    Remember you can't say somebody was a fighter against a disease...now about that death of woke-ism....if anything, it is back and on steroids.
    I was certainly wrong about the death of Woke, however I do believe we are seeing its final, maddened, tertiary stages. It’s just a Q of how long it lasts and how much damage it does to the West
    Cancelling all police in a city...gonna be fascinating how that plays out. The yellow vested community officials going around telling people to be nice to another and please could you put that telly back in that shop otherwise I will have to take your name and ask you to attend a workshop.

    No business is going to set up there.
    FPT

    Sounds like they are moving to British style policing with consent, rather than US style policing with militarisation.

    https://time.com/5848705/disband-and-replace-minneapolis-police/

    Without knowing the full details as its an emerging story, sounds perfectly sensible to me, and presumably welcomed by all those who think UK policing is significantly better than US policing.
    yes will work a treat when all the baddies are armed to the teeth with assault weapons, you must be pretty dumb to think this silly idea is sensible.
    How is the militarisation of the police working out for the US? Biggest jail population on the planet by miles and getting worse. Perhaps the answer is not to buy them more RPGs or tanks.
    Isn't the problem they don't even have to buy it, they get given a bunch of surplus military equipment if they ask for it?

    Crazy if so.
    Yes they have received over $7bn worth of weapons from the army in addition to what they spend themselves.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    HYUFD said:

    Like I said..
    Someone has reported the tweeter to the police
    Hmm. I thought a lot of people were generally not in favour of police trawling twitter feeds for crimes.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007

    I still lean to Trumpton winning (largely because of my ultra pessimistic nature when it comes to politics), but there’s a flaw:

    PBers keep telling us that this all plays into Trump’s hands. Yet the polling says otherwise. Wouldn’t it have played into his tiny hands just a little bit by now?

    Depends what polling, a poll today said 52% of Americans back sending in the military if the protests get violent as Trump suggested
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    eadric said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sounds like they're gunning for Cromwell next, can't condone any of this - but he was a vandal himself tbh.
    It's the closest we've got to a Mao or Lenin statue in this country I think.

    Cromwell was a truly great man. Paved the way for English supremacy, provided the light for English democracy, and was cleverly firm but very fair with the Irish, from whom not a peep was heard for two centuries after his enlightened rule

    If they come for Oliver, I will form a human barrier
    In Penarth?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    eadric said:

    firm but very fair with the Irish

    Hah ! Well that's one way of putting it..

    I'm annoyed he wrecked Kenilworth Castle, it's nice enough as ruins but could and would have been better fully preserved.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,336
    I agree that American polls tend not to meet BPC standards - small samples, balancing often unclear, but comparing like with like the current polls do show a shift away from Trump either despite of because of his handling of the riots so far. I'll be surprised if the jobs stat, good though it is, will shift opinion very much - the fact that most people choose the "strongly disapprove" option suggests that the hostility is quite dug in.

    I do think the margins remain close enough to make a Trump win possible and Mr Ed puts the case well. But I'd put him at no better than about 7-4..
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970

    An excellent piece.

    I'd also add the long and short campaign is crucial for Trump (and Biden).

    Biden cannot be drawn into the culture wars, or Trump will drag him down and beat him senseless with experience.

    Perhaps play his American Carnage inauguration speech over footage of what's actually happening?
    For a Law and Order President I don't see much.
    For a naturally gifted medic I see a lot of virus.
    For a great business brain I see many without jobs.
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,744
    eadric said:

    malcolmg said:

    Of course it is all well and good saying change a US police department to a UK style one, the huge difference of course is in the UK only a very limited number of individuals have guns and in cities that is a hardcore of criminals.

    In the US, huge numbers of people have guns, and of course the criminals in cities absolutely do.

    Is it not worth a try? British police can respond very quickly to armed situations when needed, there is no reason a new Minneapolis police force cant have similar capability without the aggression, militarisation and unions protecting dodgy cops.
    lol, once a half dozen of the traffic wardens have been shot they will send for some weapons, cuckoo
    Yes, this is someone who is childishly, forlornly unaware of American gun culture. Bless
    The Minneapolis City Council clearly disagree with you both and knows far more about the realities of policing there than you. Perhaps your Albanian taxi driver has a relative there with some silly anecdote?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    dixiedean said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sounds like they're gunning for Cromwell next, can't condone any of this - but he was a vandal himself tbh.
    It's the closest we've got to a Mao or Lenin statue in this country I think.

    Fun fact. The only other Cromwell statue is in Warrington.
    Is that so? Pretty remarkable, its very common as a street name.

    I really don't think he is is comparable to Mao or Lenin though. The atrocities in Ireland, terrible though they were (as warfare of the time was, though the events in Ireland were not typical for the isles), often seems to end up attributing the truly horrific overall death toll in Ireland from that entire war period entirely at his feet.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,335
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    If I was an American I would be sorely tempted to vote for Trump, even though I detest him as a person and revile him as a politician

    The alternative, amazingly, is quite possibly worse. A demented Biden leading a frenzied Democrat party which will achieve nothing because it is rotten with all this identity politics and crazed by racial strife, now playing out on the streets

    Astonishingly, Trump begins to look like the safe option. He’s mad and bad, but there won’t be anarchy

    Pity America

    You've lost the plot now. Bonkers.
    I am trying to put myself in the shoes of a Middle American looking at these riots and the strange madness attaching to them

    This is a betting site, we are supposed to remove emotion

    Biden is an exceptionally weak candidate (worse than Hillary I think), and his party is tainted by all this violence.

    Trump has a better chance than the pollsters say, even if he is a piece of dreck
    What will re-elect Trump is rhetoric that expects all whites to accept culpability for injustices committed against blacks.
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,744
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Like I said..
    Someone has reported the tweeter to the police
    Hmm. I thought a lot of people were generally not in favour of police trawling twitter feeds for crimes.
    As always, those moaning most about "snowflakes" are snowflakes themselves.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I reckon it’s unlikely Colston is going back. I wasn’t even aware until today that we had a six foot hagiography of a slave trafficker in the centre of one of our core cities.

    Will their be much appetite in Brizzle to restore him to his pedestal? I doubt it.

    Never mind the statue, the whole city along with Liverpool, Preston, Whitehaven, Glasgow and all those west coast ports was pretty much built on the proceeds of the slave trade. Do you think we should nuke the lot from orbit?
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,433

    I take it the PB racists who object to the toppling of Colston also objected to the toppling of Saddam or Lenin?

    I absolutely object to the smashing up of Marx's grave.
    What about the Saddam and Lenin statues?
    I wasn't in favour of toppling Saddam at all, so by extension I must be against toppling his statue.

    I am not aware of what happened to Lenin's statue.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,996
    HYUFD said:

    I still lean to Trumpton winning (largely because of my ultra pessimistic nature when it comes to politics), but there’s a flaw:

    PBers keep telling us that this all plays into Trump’s hands. Yet the polling says otherwise. Wouldn’t it have played into his tiny hands just a little bit by now?

    Depends what polling, a poll today said 52% of Americans back sending in the military if the protests get violent as Trump suggested
    Perhaps so, but that isn’t showing as an increase in support for Trumpton.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Biden has a careful line to tread. Basically he needs to make sure he isn't cucked.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    I reckon it’s unlikely Colston is going back. I wasn’t even aware until today that we had a six foot hagiography of a slave trafficker in the centre of one of our core cities.

    Will their be much appetite in Brizzle to restore him to his pedestal? I doubt it.

    Probably not, a bit like deciding if it is in the public interest to charge somebody with a crime or not even if it is clear they are guilty, but there must be protection of other monuments, even distasteful ones, as we don't want encouragement of mobs going around cleansing cities to their particular tastes. Not all will be so clear cut, and people should never feel that commiting crimes is consequence free.
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,744
    IshmaelZ said:

    I reckon it’s unlikely Colston is going back. I wasn’t even aware until today that we had a six foot hagiography of a slave trafficker in the centre of one of our core cities.

    Will their be much appetite in Brizzle to restore him to his pedestal? I doubt it.

    Never mind the statue, the whole city along with Liverpool, Preston, Whitehaven, Glasgow and all those west coast ports was pretty much built on the proceeds of the slave trade. Do you think we should nuke the lot from orbit?
    Well it would stop Liverpool* winning the title......
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311

    I take it the PB racists who object to the toppling of Colston also objected to the toppling of Saddam or Lenin?

    I absolutely object to the smashing up of Marx's grave.
    What about the Saddam and Lenin statues?
    I wasn't in favour of toppling Saddam at all, so by extension I must be against toppling his statue.

    I am not aware of what happened to Lenin's statue.
    I meant in the former Eastern Bloc nations.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    I take it the PB racists who object to the toppling of Colston also objected to the toppling of Saddam or Lenin?

    I absolutely object to the smashing up of Marx's grave.
    What about the Saddam and Lenin statues?
    I wasn't in favour of toppling Saddam at all, so by extension I must be against toppling his statue.

    I am not aware of what happened to Lenin's statue.
    Lots of them went down in Ukraine a few years ago.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,433

    I reckon it’s unlikely Colston is going back. I wasn’t even aware until today that we had a six foot hagiography of a slave trafficker in the centre of one of our core cities.

    Will their be much appetite in Brizzle to restore him to his pedestal? I doubt it.

    I'm sure you've made this same post three or four times now? We get it, there was a statue, you were surprised, etc.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,996
    IshmaelZ said:

    I reckon it’s unlikely Colston is going back. I wasn’t even aware until today that we had a six foot hagiography of a slave trafficker in the centre of one of our core cities.

    Will their be much appetite in Brizzle to restore him to his pedestal? I doubt it.

    Never mind the statue, the whole city along with Liverpool, Preston, Whitehaven, Glasgow and all those west coast ports was pretty much built on the proceeds of the slave trade. Do you think we should nuke the lot from orbit?
    No.
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,744

    Of course it is all well and good saying change a US police department to a UK style one, the huge difference of course is in the UK only a very limited number of individuals have guns and in cities that is a hardcore of criminals.

    In the US, huge numbers of people have guns, and of course the criminals in cities absolutely do.

    Is it not worth a try? British police can respond very quickly to armed situations when needed, there is no reason a new Minneapolis police force cant have similar capability without the aggression, militarisation and unions protecting dodgy cops.
    I don't agree with the US 2nd amendment, and the militarisation that you see routinely in US police forces is way OTT, but I wouldn't want to be a cop in the US without a firearm. And I don't imagine many people will.

    Here, again excluding a very small minority (that the police already have a decent idea about), the worst you come across is the odd hand gun. In the US, either via different states who have very lack laws or Mexico, the fire power criminals can get there hands on is frightening.
    They are not saying no police will have firearms, they are using an example of going to a town hall meeting, not every police officer needs a fire arm. Sounds perfectly sensible and decisions being made by those on the ground who know their town the best.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    eadric said:

    I take it the PB racists who object to the toppling of Colston also objected to the toppling of Saddam or Lenin?

    I absolutely object to the smashing up of Marx's grave. You can't compare our situation to countries without a functioning democracy.
    Quite so. We are an ancient democracy and we have democratic means to address perceived wrongs.
    Chortle!

    How might, say, an African slave shackled up deep inside the hold of a ship sailing to the West Indies or Southern USA had democratic means to address his or her perceived actual wrongs?
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,433
    kle4 said:

    I take it the PB racists who object to the toppling of Colston also objected to the toppling of Saddam or Lenin?

    I absolutely object to the smashing up of Marx's grave.
    What about the Saddam and Lenin statues?
    I wasn't in favour of toppling Saddam at all, so by extension I must be against toppling his statue.

    I am not aware of what happened to Lenin's statue.
    Lots of them went down in Ukraine a few years ago.
    Given the change in circumstances in Ukraine (pro-Russian leader ousted), I highly doubt smashing Lenin statues was illegal, or at least considered illegal. I have no sympathy for Lenin as a political figure (or a human being for that matter), but I don't condone vandalism.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I reckon it’s unlikely Colston is going back. I wasn’t even aware until today that we had a six foot hagiography of a slave trafficker in the centre of one of our core cities.

    Will their be much appetite in Brizzle to restore him to his pedestal? I doubt it.

    Indeed. There's a time and a place for non violent civil disorder and this seems a reasonable exercise of it.
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    alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100

    I agree that American polls tend not to meet BPC standards - small samples, balancing often unclear, but comparing like with like the current polls do show a shift away from Trump either despite of because of his handling of the riots so far. I'll be surprised if the jobs stat, good though it is, will shift opinion very much - the fact that most people choose the "strongly disapprove" option suggests that the hostility is quite dug in.

    I do think the margins remain close enough to make a Trump win possible and Mr Ed puts the case well. But I'd put him at no better than about 7-4..

    This Mr Ed?
    https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/42502790211665389/
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,996

    I reckon it’s unlikely Colston is going back. I wasn’t even aware until today that we had a six foot hagiography of a slave trafficker in the centre of one of our core cities.

    Will their be much appetite in Brizzle to restore him to his pedestal? I doubt it.

    I'm sure you've made this same post three or four times now? We get it, there was a statue, you were surprised, etc.
    FPT etc
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,335

    I reckon it’s unlikely Colston is going back. I wasn’t even aware until today that we had a six foot hagiography of a slave trafficker in the centre of one of our core cities.

    Will their be much appetite in Brizzle to restore him to his pedestal? I doubt it.

    Lots of people (most) weren't and don't.

    That's why most of this stuff is really displacement activity.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited June 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article.

    With the protests and riots it is increasingly looking like the 1968 election, with Trump doing a Nixon and posing as the law and order candidate against the Democratic nominee, an amiable man who has held the post of Vice President, then Humphrey, now Biden.

    I agree the Republican base is still strong for Trump but Biden in turn will hope to win over independents and get high turnout from the black community, especially given recent events. As the article states where the relatively high number of Libertarian voters from 2016 could also be crucial.

    In 1968 Nixon beat Humphrey by just 0.7%

    That was true of the popular vote though Nixon would still have won the Electoral College had Humphrey led by that margin.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    IshmaelZ said:

    I reckon it’s unlikely Colston is going back. I wasn’t even aware until today that we had a six foot hagiography of a slave trafficker in the centre of one of our core cities.

    Will their be much appetite in Brizzle to restore him to his pedestal? I doubt it.

    Never mind the statue, the whole city along with Liverpool, Preston, Whitehaven, Glasgow and all those west coast ports was pretty much built on the proceeds of the slave trade. Do you think we should nuke the lot from orbit?
    Pulling down statues doesn't hurt anyone.

    Nuking a city just might don't you think?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,335

    I take it the PB racists who object to the toppling of Colston also objected to the toppling of Saddam or Lenin?

    Who are the PB racists?
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    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    eadric said:

    FWIW I have a friend who is very well connected with Antifa and BLM in the USA/UK

    She is a smart lefty who was recently on board with all this but is now horrified by the way it is spinning out of control

    she says the intention is now to take down statues across the country and beyond, and Cromwell is definitely one of them

    It might be paranoid bollocks, but I offer it FYI

    How come the Millwall fans guarding the Churchill statue got moved on so the BLMs could deface it? I'd take the football thugs to bash up the snotty students all day long
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