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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It appears Sir Keir Starmer has made a great first impression

SystemSystem Posts: 11,683
edited June 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It appears Sir Keir Starmer has made a great first impression

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  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Bland is the new Blair
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    'Of the 237 occasions we have run this question over the past decade, this has just happened three times - when Corbyn caught May in the months following the 2017 election.'

    That must be why Jeremy Corbyn won the subsequent election and is now Prime Minister...
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981
    Boris Johnson expending his political capital on Dominic Cummings with a loyalty he’s not previously shown to his wives is one of the great mysteries of life.
    Meeow - completely true but rather cattty
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,109
    Attack on North Britain, day 2.

    Monuments still unscathed so these guys are doing a great job.

    https://twitter.com/SunScotNational/status/1272142241180467202
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,444

    'Of the 237 occasions we have run this question over the past decade, this has just happened three times - when Corbyn caught May in the months following the 2017 election.'

    That must be why Jeremy Corbyn won the subsequent election and is now Prime Minister...

    Perhaps you should read on.

    Political authority and capital is lot like virginity, once it’s gone, it is bloody difficult to get back. Boris Johnson expending his political capital on Dominic Cummings with a loyalty he’s not previously shown to his wives is one of the great mysteries of life.

    Or did Theresa May fight the subsequent election?
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,082
    You have to be some sort of idiot to believe that the UK locked down too hard.

    We had one of the softest lockdowns in Europe.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    edited June 2020

    NEW THREAD

    With a first available easier than at Oxford.

    Huh! *sulks*
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    eek said:

    Boris Johnson expending his political capital on Dominic Cummings with a loyalty he’s not previously shown to his wives is one of the great mysteries of life.
    Meeow - completely true but rather cattty

    TSEs still sulking that Cameron flounced off
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007
    edited June 2020
    Interesting that Cameron had the best net approval rating of any opposition leader before Starmer but failed to win a majority in 2010 and had to form a coalition with the LDs to become PM.

    Blair only has the 3rd highest approval rating of an opposition leader but won a landslide to become PM in 1997. That goes to show that having a popular leader is not enough if you are not also seen as having taken your party far enough to the centre if you want to ensure you win a majority for your party. Blair had clearly reformed his party with New Labour, Cameron was not seen to have gone as far in reforming the Tories, the verdict is still out on how far Starmer will reform Labour.

    For the moment the Tories have one figure who also polls better than Starmer and Boris, Rishi Sunak, if the Tories do fall behind in the polls as Thatcher did in 1990 after the poll tax it is possible Sunak could be Major to Starmer's Kinnock
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,405
    From the last thread -

    NHS England numbers out - 27. Yes, 27

    Extremely low even for weekend reporting

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    edited June 2020
    Boris Johnson expending his political capital on Dominic Cummings with a loyalty he’s not previously shown to his wives is one of the great mysteries of life.

    Not really. For some reason he’s able to pull like you can’t believe it, so he can still get a screw without his wives.

    But without Cummings he would allegedly be epically screwed.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981

    You have to be some sort of idiot to believe that the UK locked down too hard.

    We had one of the softest lockdowns in Europe.

    And one of the longest by the feel of it.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953

    Attack on North Britain, day 2.

    Monuments still unscathed so these guys are doing a great job.

    Yes, the only monument that didn't survive was the Eckstone...

    Free university tuition for Scottish students may have to end as a result of the financial crisis gripping the sector, a leading educationalist has warned.

    Universities in Scotland face a £500m black hole, with the number of lucrative fee-paying students from overseas expected to fall steeply following the Covid-19 pandemic.

    The financial position could become even worse as a result of UK government plans to limit the number of fee-paying English students allowed to study in Scotland.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/scottish-students-face-an-end-to-free-university-education-rcft5jscm

    This is the best bit though...

    The Scottish government said it is working with universities and colleges to address current challenges and pressing the UK government for assistance.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759

    Attack on North Britain, day 2.

    Monuments still unscathed so these guys are doing a great job.

    https://twitter.com/SunScotNational/status/1272142241180467202

    That's right. The Kitchener Memorial hasn't been couped over the Orcadian cliffs, either. Thank goodness (especially as I genuinely like it).
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    eek said:

    You have to be some sort of idiot to believe that the UK locked down too hard.

    We had one of the softest lockdowns in Europe.

    And one of the longest by the feel of it.
    The softest and longest by the feel of it?

    Are we talking John C. Holmes here?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,444


    TSEs still sulking that Cameron flounced off

    Sulking?

    I'm still in mourning.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    Scott_xP said:

    Attack on North Britain, day 2.

    Monuments still unscathed so these guys are doing a great job.

    Yes, the only monument that didn't survive was the Eckstone...

    Free university tuition for Scottish students may have to end as a result of the financial crisis gripping the sector, a leading educationalist has warned.

    Universities in Scotland face a £500m black hole, with the number of lucrative fee-paying students from overseas expected to fall steeply following the Covid-19 pandemic.

    The financial position could become even worse as a result of UK government plans to limit the number of fee-paying English students allowed to study in Scotland.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/scottish-students-face-an-end-to-free-university-education-rcft5jscm

    This is the best bit though...

    The Scottish government said it is working with universities and colleges to address current challenges and pressing the UK government for assistance.
    Perfectly valid - they can ask the UK government to adopt a policy which means more support for unis in England with a Barnett consequential.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    Carnyx said:

    Attack on North Britain, day 2.

    Monuments still unscathed so these guys are doing a great job.

    https://twitter.com/SunScotNational/status/1272142241180467202

    That's right. The Kitchener Memorial hasn't been couped over the Orcadian cliffs, either. Thank goodness (especially as I genuinely like it).
    Divers massacres of non-white people.

    On the other hand, the first more or less openly gay senior army officer.

    Must cause a bit of a headache in the diversity stakes.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,304
    Good morning.

    I doubt that bloke knew where he was peeing. It looked like the closest thing to a corner he could find.

    I have seen plenty of footage of football firms and ex-military types congregating around Westminster yesterday. I suppose if not overly bright people look at the coverage of the previous week's demonstrations they might think to themselves I'll have some of that. And all in a good cause.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    TOPPING said:

    Good morning.

    *Checks watch*
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826


    TSEs still sulking that Cameron flounced off

    Sulking?

    I'm still in mourning.
    You've spent about four years in the second stage so far.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,109
    edited June 2020
    eadric said:

    Attack on North Britain, day 2.

    Monuments still unscathed so these guys are doing a great job.

    https://twitter.com/SunScotNational/status/1272142241180467202

    Still dismal weather up there, I see

    Scorchio again down here. Sorry
    A shaft of sunlight has just burst through in East Glasgow, enough to gladden the heart and warm the gammony visage of any staunch statue protector.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    TOPPING said:

    Good morning.

    I doubt that bloke knew where he was peeing. It looked like the closest thing to a corner he could find.

    I have seen plenty of footage of football firms and ex-military types congregating around Westminster yesterday. I suppose if not overly bright people look at the coverage of the previous week's demonstrations they might think to themselves I'll have some of that. And all in a good cause.

    I think that's right, it didn't look malicious.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    edited June 2020
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Attack on North Britain, day 2.

    Monuments still unscathed so these guys are doing a great job.

    https://twitter.com/SunScotNational/status/1272142241180467202

    That's right. The Kitchener Memorial hasn't been couped over the Orcadian cliffs, either. Thank goodness (especially as I genuinely like it).
    Divers massacres of non-white people.

    On the other hand, the first more or less openly gay senior army officer.

    Must cause a bit of a headache in the diversity stakes.
    The memorial is IIRC one of the Scottish ones slated by the Stop Trump coalition or whatever it is called [edit], no doubt for the reason you adduce.

    Not sure how much responsibility he bears for white deaths in the British Army, esp. the Great War (I leave that to others who know more).
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,082
    eek said:

    You have to be some sort of idiot to believe that the UK locked down too hard.

    We had one of the softest lockdowns in Europe.

    And one of the longest by the feel of it.
    Not for those who have been working.

    But what would people prefer - a softer but longer lockdown or a harder but shorter lockdown ?

    The andrex vs old fashioned bog roll so to speak.

    Given the number of lockdown headbangers around, or at least their loudness, then I imagine soft and long would be preferred.

    Though the more authoritarian would prefer hard and long.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,641
    TOPPING said:

    Good morning.

    I doubt that bloke knew where he was peeing. It looked like the closest thing to a corner he could find.

    I have seen plenty of footage of football firms and ex-military types congregating around Westminster yesterday. I suppose if not overly bright people look at the coverage of the previous week's demonstrations they might think to themselves I'll have some of that. And all in a good cause.

    They seemed to be a very inclusive bunch. While their spelling let them down a bit, they welcomed an incontinent Trans protestor...


  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,082
    edited June 2020
    Only 24 English hospital deaths during the last week reported today.

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

    Even by weekend standards that's very low.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,641
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Attack on North Britain, day 2.

    Monuments still unscathed so these guys are doing a great job.

    https://twitter.com/SunScotNational/status/1272142241180467202

    That's right. The Kitchener Memorial hasn't been couped over the Orcadian cliffs, either. Thank goodness (especially as I genuinely like it).
    Divers massacres of non-white people.

    On the other hand, the first more or less openly gay senior army officer.

    Must cause a bit of a headache in the diversity stakes.
    The memorial is IIRC one of the Scottish ones slated by the Stop Trump coalition or whatever it is called [edit], no doubt for the reason you adduce.

    Not sure how much responsibility he bears for white deaths in the British Army, esp. the Great War (I leave that to others who know more).
    Plenty of dead Boer women and children in his concentration camps.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,433

    eadric said:


    And a SAGE committee comprised entirely of me and my ego would have run this pandemic better

    That's about 5 people at the last count isn't it?
    And it is admirably gender and politically diverse. :lol:
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759

    eadric said:


    And a SAGE committee comprised entirely of me and my ego would have run this pandemic better

    That's about 5 people at the last count isn't it?
    And it is admirably gender and politically diverse. :lol:
    Oddly enough I'm reading Shieldwall, a historical novel by Justin Hill, in which none other than our friend Eadric emerges - so far building up to be the evil villain and manipulator of the story ...
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    edited June 2020
    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Attack on North Britain, day 2.

    Monuments still unscathed so these guys are doing a great job.

    https://twitter.com/SunScotNational/status/1272142241180467202

    That's right. The Kitchener Memorial hasn't been couped over the Orcadian cliffs, either. Thank goodness (especially as I genuinely like it).
    Divers massacres of non-white people.

    On the other hand, the first more or less openly gay senior army officer.

    Must cause a bit of a headache in the diversity stakes.
    The memorial is IIRC one of the Scottish ones slated by the Stop Trump coalition or whatever it is called [edit], no doubt for the reason you adduce.

    Not sure how much responsibility he bears for white deaths in the British Army, esp. the Great War (I leave that to others who know more).
    Plenty of dead Boer women and children in his concentration camps.
    26,000.

    Plus a massacre in Omdurman in 1898 after recapturing the city - strangely not mentioned by Corporal Jones.

    Not really fair to blame him for the First World War though as his strategy was ultimately effective, albeit very costly.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,082
    TOPPING said:

    Good morning.

    I doubt that bloke knew where he was peeing. It looked like the closest thing to a corner he could find.

    I have seen plenty of footage of football firms and ex-military types congregating around Westminster yesterday. I suppose if not overly bright people look at the coverage of the previous week's demonstrations they might think to themselves I'll have some of that. And all in a good cause.

    Are you trans-Atlantic today Toppo or have you only just got up ?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    eadric said:

    eek said:

    You have to be some sort of idiot to believe that the UK locked down too hard.

    We had one of the softest lockdowns in Europe.

    And one of the longest by the feel of it.

    Staring at the open cafes and restaurants in Paris it is very difficult not to feel aggrieved.

    We should have gone for the Swedish option with added shielding. The Tories bottled it.


    And a SAGE committee comprised entirely of me and my ego would have run this pandemic better than the God-awful boffins and their masks-are-bad lunacy
    Wait, remind us what you were shouting in March and April.

  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    isam said:
    ...and of course, most important of all, the public think Starmer is very boring, compared to Boris. If that changes too, I'd worry if I were the Tories
  • Options
    Good news from Hamburg to @Dura_Ace and whoever else it may concern. Following the disheartening 0:2 defeat to VfL Bochum, some marked progress; a (halfway) convincing 2:1 vs. Wismut Aue (Diamantakos+Veerman); five points clear of relegation. Next match on wednesday at Hannover 96 (lost 2:3 at Darmstadt 98 today).

    "Vorwärts, und nicht vergessen!"
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,304
    Tribalism aside, can anyone really say, with hand on heart, that Boris Johnson is any good? If so, how?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,304

    TOPPING said:

    Good morning.

    I doubt that bloke knew where he was peeing. It looked like the closest thing to a corner he could find.

    I have seen plenty of footage of football firms and ex-military types congregating around Westminster yesterday. I suppose if not overly bright people look at the coverage of the previous week's demonstrations they might think to themselves I'll have some of that. And all in a good cause.

    Are you trans-Atlantic today Toppo or have you only just got up ?
    Taking it slowly...
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759
    edited June 2020

    Tribalism aside, can anyone really say, with hand on heart, that Boris Johnson is any good? If so, how?

    [deleted]
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311

    Tribalism aside, can anyone really say, with hand on heart, that Boris Johnson is any good? If so, how?

    He's good at winning elections, doncha know?

    Two London Mayoralties
    Brexit (arguably)
    Tory Leadership
    GE 2019
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Good morning.

    I doubt that bloke knew where he was peeing. It looked like the closest thing to a corner he could find.

    I have seen plenty of footage of football firms and ex-military types congregating around Westminster yesterday. I suppose if not overly bright people look at the coverage of the previous week's demonstrations they might think to themselves I'll have some of that. And all in a good cause.

    They seemed to be a very inclusive bunch. While their spelling let them down a bit, they welcomed an incontinent Trans protestor...


    Taking back control...of our bladder.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930

    Tribalism aside, can anyone really say, with hand on heart, that Boris Johnson is any good? If so, how?

    As Sunil said. He did demonstrably better than Cameron and May managed in GEs, had a big hand in winning the referendum, won 2/2 Mayoralties, is a well regarded journalist and author. Women find him attractive

    Where did it all go wrong Mr Best?

  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970
    Scott_xP said:
    Does simply making it one metre make schools "back to normal"?
    Much magical thinking here.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    It is a pity we do not have such data stretching back to the 60s. Harold Wilson was very effective as Opposition Leader after becoming Labour leader in February 1963 - Ted Heath ,however, struggled post being elected Tory leader in July 1965.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    edited June 2020
    Does anyone know wtf is going on with Prince Charles' hands/fingers?!
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Good afternoon, my largely peaceful fellow PBers.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Scott_xP said:
    I don't see Farage returning as a major force post- Brexit. Any party he led would be deprived of the oxygen of publicity readily provided by the EU parliamentary elections.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,124
    Scott_xP said:
    Boris Johnson is planning his COVID-19 timetable three months ahead now?

    If only the moron had had a clue what was going to happen more than about three days ahead in March!
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    eadric said:

    Floater said:

    eadric said:

    eek said:

    You have to be some sort of idiot to believe that the UK locked down too hard.

    We had one of the softest lockdowns in Europe.

    And one of the longest by the feel of it.

    Staring at the open cafes and restaurants in Paris it is very difficult not to feel aggrieved.

    We should have gone for the Swedish option with added shielding. The Tories bottled it.


    And a SAGE committee comprised entirely of me and my ego would have run this pandemic better than the God-awful boffins and their masks-are-bad lunacy
    Wait, remind us what you were shouting in March and April.

    Lockdown, hard and early, plus masks and quarantine, is what I was calling for in FEBRUARY. I'd have saved a load of lives and we'd now be opening schools. The economy would have tanked but it has tanked anyway.

    My point is with hindsight probably a version of Sweden was best, given that the Brits are so weirdly averse to masks and incapable of obeying social distancing rules if they need to protest about BAD STATUES.

    We got the worst of all worlds. A late, ineffective but prolonged lockdown, which is great at destroying business but not so good at squashing infection. We will, as a result, have one of the worst death tolls AND possibly the worst economic slump.

    I wish it were not so. I supported this government., I like to think Britain's scientists are cool and clever.

    *sad face*
    Sad face = :(

    colon left bracket
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    eadric said:

    justin124 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I don't see Farage returning as a major force post- Brexit. Any party he led would be deprived of the oxygen of publicity readily provided by the EU parliamentary elections.
    He's betting on a second wave and a culture war. Quite frankly, he might be right
    The Opposition would be much more likely to be the beneficiary of any second wave. Were Corbyn still in place, Farage might pull in some support - but not now. A culture war also has too much of a BNP smell to have potential to reach far.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,641

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Good morning.

    I doubt that bloke knew where he was peeing. It looked like the closest thing to a corner he could find.

    I have seen plenty of footage of football firms and ex-military types congregating around Westminster yesterday. I suppose if not overly bright people look at the coverage of the previous week's demonstrations they might think to themselves I'll have some of that. And all in a good cause.

    They seemed to be a very inclusive bunch. While their spelling let them down a bit, they welcomed an incontinent Trans protestor...


    Taking back control...of our bladder.
    Sadly, it is photoshopped. This is the original.


  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,225
    edited June 2020
    Starmer has surprised on the upside. I didn't vote for him but I'm quite happy with him so far.

    The big picture is that the election was won by persuading the Red Wallers that "Boris" shared their values and that he and his "Brexit" would improve their lives - but of course he doesn't and it won't. The opposite, in fact, in both cases.

    To win again next time, therefore, the Cons must hope that the Who were talking out of their backsides. I do not believe they were - so I think Starmer is on his way to Downing St. It's more of a 'when' than an 'if'.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,405
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Attack on North Britain, day 2.

    Monuments still unscathed so these guys are doing a great job.

    https://twitter.com/SunScotNational/status/1272142241180467202

    That's right. The Kitchener Memorial hasn't been couped over the Orcadian cliffs, either. Thank goodness (especially as I genuinely like it).
    Divers massacres of non-white people.

    On the other hand, the first more or less openly gay senior army officer.

    Must cause a bit of a headache in the diversity stakes.
    The memorial is IIRC one of the Scottish ones slated by the Stop Trump coalition or whatever it is called [edit], no doubt for the reason you adduce.

    Not sure how much responsibility he bears for white deaths in the British Army, esp. the Great War (I leave that to others who know more).
    Plenty of dead Boer women and children in his concentration camps.
    26,000.

    Plus a massacre in Omdurman in 1898 after recapturing the city - strangely not mentioned by Corporal Jones.

    Not really fair to blame him for the First World War though as his strategy was ultimately effective, albeit very costly.
    On the first WWI - he was merely right. He told the cabinet in 1914 that the war would stalemate until the British Army was a mass conscription, fully trained army. And predicted it would take 3 years.

    The 100 Days Campaign in 1918 was the result.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,744
    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Does simply making it one metre make schools "back to normal"?
    Much magical thinking here.
    I just don't get it. This is the same farce as we had with masks.

    Masks are really bad no they are really good!

    One metre is deadly no it's fine!

    WTF are they doing
    Again not true, just extreme exagerration. According to the govt:

    Masks were initially meh - unproven and on balance not worth it
    Masks are now meh - a bit more evidence in favour and on balance worth it in certain situations.

    They were never really bad and according to current govt advice are not really good.
  • Options
    eadric said:

    Floater said:

    eadric said:

    eek said:

    You have to be some sort of idiot to believe that the UK locked down too hard.

    We had one of the softest lockdowns in Europe.

    And one of the longest by the feel of it.

    Staring at the open cafes and restaurants in Paris it is very difficult not to feel aggrieved.

    We should have gone for the Swedish option with added shielding. The Tories bottled it.


    And a SAGE committee comprised entirely of me and my ego would have run this pandemic better than the God-awful boffins and their masks-are-bad lunacy
    Wait, remind us what you were shouting in March and April.

    Lockdown, hard and early, plus masks and quarantine, is what I was calling for in FEBRUARY. I'd have saved a load of lives and we'd now be opening schools. The economy would have tanked but it has tanked anyway.

    My point is with hindsight probably a version of Sweden was best, given that the Brits are so weirdly averse to masks and incapable of obeying social distancing rules if they need to protest about BAD STATUES.

    We got the worst of all worlds. A late, ineffective but prolonged lockdown, which is great at destroying business but not so good at squashing infection. We will, as a result, have one of the worst death tolls AND possibly the worst economic slump.

    I wish it were not so. I supported this government., I like to think Britain's scientists are cool and clever.

    *sad face*
    They're certainly cool. All your eggheads sound so posh, it's a delight listening to them at the press briefers.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,405
    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Boris Johnson is planning his COVID-19 timetable three months ahead now?

    If only the moron had had a clue what was going to happen more than about three days ahead in March!
    At the rate at which numbers are declining, it is quite easy to predict what the situation will be, short of a second wave.

    And other countries that have eased lockdowns have not seen the second waves.

    image
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,082
    kinabalu said:

    Starmer has surprised on the upside. I didn't vote for him but I'm quite happy with him so far.

    The big picture is that the election was won by persuading the Red Wallers that "Boris" shared their values and that he and his "Brexit" would improve their lives - but of course he doesn't and it won't. The opposite, in fact, in both cases.

    To win again next time, therefore, the Cons must hope that the Who were talking out of their backsides. And I don't believe they were - so I think Starmer is on his way to Downing St. It's more of a when than an if.

    The problem there is that Starmer doesn't share their values and doesn't seem interested in pretending that he does.

    Though if Starmer did reach Downing Street he'd have the joys of implementing 'export or starve' because you can be sure Boris and Sunak will have spent every penny which is available and then a whole load more.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Good morning.

    I doubt that bloke knew where he was peeing. It looked like the closest thing to a corner he could find.

    I have seen plenty of footage of football firms and ex-military types congregating around Westminster yesterday. I suppose if not overly bright people look at the coverage of the previous week's demonstrations they might think to themselves I'll have some of that. And all in a good cause.

    They seemed to be a very inclusive bunch. While their spelling let them down a bit, they welcomed an incontinent Trans protestor...


    Taking back control...of our bladder.
    Sadly, it is photoshopped. This is the original.


    Really sad, but at least the bois (and the girl) are still good humored at that point (and diverse, they found one).
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,304
    isam said:

    Tribalism aside, can anyone really say, with hand on heart, that Boris Johnson is any good? If so, how?

    As Sunil said. He did demonstrably better than Cameron and May managed in GEs, had a big hand in winning the referendum, won 2/2 Mayoralties, is a well regarded journalist and author. Women find him attractive

    Where did it all go wrong Mr Best?

    I think you missed the 'Tribalism aside' bit. Yes, your party has had political success under him (was that luck or good management?) but I was trying to dig a bit deeper. (His merits as a journalist, author and lothario are probably up for debate.)
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2020
    justin124 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I don't see Farage returning as a major force post- Brexit. Any party he led would be deprived of the oxygen of publicity readily provided by the EU parliamentary elections.
    Not to mention deprived of the oxygen of publicity from the European Parliament.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,082
    Andrew said:
    It could be in negative figures and we'd still have lockdown nutters wanting everything to be closed.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    MaxPB said:

    Does anyone know wtf is going on with Prince Charles' hands/fingers?!

    Covid19 side effect?
    Poor circulation?
    Arthritis?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970
    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Does simply making it one metre make schools "back to normal"?
    Much magical thinking here.
    I just don't get it. This is the same farce as we had with masks.

    Masks are really bad no they are really good!

    One metre is deadly no it's fine!

    WTF are they doing
    The problem, as well as the confused messaging you allude to, is that the physical infrastructure is simply not there in most schools.
    The classrooms are too small. So you need smaller class sizes. But there aren't enough teachers. Or extra classrooms. There aren't enough toilets or washing facilities. The corridors are too narrow for kids to distance. Etc, etc.
    All of these still apply whether one or two metres.
    None of these are the fault of Unions who are pointing out these issues. Nor are they insurmountable.
    But the solutions all necessitate that they will not "return to normal" until there is a vaccine.
  • Options
    ClippPClippP Posts: 1,684

    Tribalism aside, can anyone really say, with hand on heart, that Boris Johnson is any good? If so, how?

    He's good at winning elections, doncha know?
    Two London Mayoralties
    Brexit (arguably)
    Tory Leadership
    GE 2019
    Cheating and chicanery for the most part. So what else can you tell us?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    .

    isam said:

    Tribalism aside, can anyone really say, with hand on heart, that Boris Johnson is any good? If so, how?

    As Sunil said. He did demonstrably better than Cameron and May managed in GEs, had a big hand in winning the referendum, won 2/2 Mayoralties, is a well regarded journalist and author. Women find him attractive

    Where did it all go wrong Mr Best?

    I think you missed the 'Tribalism aside' bit. Yes, your party has had political success under him (was that luck or good management?) but I was trying to dig a bit deeper. (His merits as a journalist, author and lothario are probably up for debate.)
    I didn't miss it at all, I am not a Tory.

    I voted against him when he ran for London Mayor, and bet against him because I thought he was a buffoon. I voted Tory in December at the last minute because they were the only ones who were going to respect the referendum result, it is ridiculous to call them "my party", it turned my stomach to do it. I am just capable of being able to judge people on their record, and electorally he has a fantastic one.

    It is you who cannot see things without bias. The things I stated that he is good at are demonstrably true, whether you like him or not.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Good morning.

    I doubt that bloke knew where he was peeing. It looked like the closest thing to a corner he could find.

    I have seen plenty of footage of football firms and ex-military types congregating around Westminster yesterday. I suppose if not overly bright people look at the coverage of the previous week's demonstrations they might think to themselves I'll have some of that. And all in a good cause.

    Are you trans-Atlantic today Toppo or have you only just got up ?
    Taking it slowly...
    Prince George: Wha–wha–what time is it?

    Blackadder: Three o’clock in the afternoon, Your Highness.

    Prince George: Oh, thank God for that; I thought I’d overslept.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,225
    Quick note to commemorate that Owen Jones has today achieved the landmark of 1 million followers on Twitter. Good to see.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    justin124 said:

    eadric said:

    justin124 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I don't see Farage returning as a major force post- Brexit. Any party he led would be deprived of the oxygen of publicity readily provided by the EU parliamentary elections.
    He's betting on a second wave and a culture war. Quite frankly, he might be right
    The Opposition would be much more likely to be the beneficiary of any second wave. Were Corbyn still in place, Farage might pull in some support - but not now. A culture war also has too much of a BNP smell to have potential to reach far.
    Starmer's big problem is that, while people may be warming to him, people still view his party as containing a bunch of hard-left activists and MPs who would ultimately be directing what a Labour Government would do (the implication is that people don't believe Starmer controls his party: I think that is fair enough). This is why you had Starmer far outpolling the Labour party with YouGov as to how people view their respective suitabilities for Government.

    It is why I disagree with the view that it is leadership ratings that will determine the outcome of a General Election. That only works if people believe the party is in line with the leader and their views. It is clear people are sceptical. Unless Starmer shows he is willing to go to town against MPs like Dawn Butler, Naz Shah and the rest of them who like to proclaim how racism is the #1 defining issue in the country and antifa are saints vs those nasty right wing thugs etc etc, many Red Wall voters will not come back to Labour.

    As for the Tories, I think Boris is gone next year. He's tired, he's got a new kid, he is falling behind in the ratings and the UK will have cut its ties with the EU, which will give him an opportunity to go out on a "high". Most importantly, though, I don't think he has the heart for fighting a culture war, which will be the defining feature of politics for the next few years, and being a posh, white bloke, he is at a slight disadvantage. When the penny drops for him (if it hasn't) as to the political mood of the next few years, he will be out.

    I'm also sceptical, in this scenario, Rishi Sunak is the front-runner. Yes, he's nice and done a good job so far with the economy but, as someone said to me the only day, he comes across as a bit wet and lacking steel. I think who the Conservatives (MPs and activists) will decide they will need to fight back in the culture wars is someone aggressive and willing to take the fight to the left. So - actionable idea - I'm going for Priti Patel as the next PM (35/1 last time I looked on Ladbrokes). Her statement at the dispatch box and how she handled the letter from the Labour MPs on race shows she is not afraid of a fight and that is likely to appeal.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970
    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Does simply making it one metre make schools "back to normal"?
    Much magical thinking here.
    I just don't get it. This is the same farce as we had with masks.

    Masks are really bad no they are really good!

    One metre is deadly no it's fine!

    WTF are they doing
    The problem, as well as the confused messaging you allude to, is that the physical infrastructure is simply not there in most schools.
    The classrooms are too small. So you need smaller class sizes. But there aren't enough teachers. Or extra classrooms. There aren't enough toilets or washing facilities. The corridors are too narrow for kids to distance. Etc, etc.
    All of these still apply whether one or two metres.
    None of these are the fault of Unions who are pointing out these issues. Nor are they insurmountable.
    But the solutions all necessitate that they will not "return to normal" until there is a vaccine.
    OR we accept that there will be an ongoing and significant level of infection, of a new disease which kills 1% of those it affects, and is fairly nasty with 5-20%

    The government should maybe just prepare us for a new and nastier amount of risk, so as to save the economy, and our kids' brains

    Well yes of course.
    That is the other alternative. However, the government seems to want it both ways.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,398
    ClippP said:

    Tribalism aside, can anyone really say, with hand on heart, that Boris Johnson is any good? If so, how?

    He's good at winning elections, doncha know?
    Two London Mayoralties
    Brexit (arguably)
    Tory Leadership
    GE 2019
    Cheating and chicanery for the most part. So what else can you tell us?
    Cheating and chicanery in elections are here to stay, as you'd know if you broke into the Downing Street safe and read that report into foreign interference that Boris is suppressing.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,433
    kinabalu said:

    Starmer has surprised on the upside. I didn't vote for him but I'm quite happy with him so far.

    The big picture is that the election was won by persuading the Red Wallers that "Boris" shared their values and that he and his "Brexit" would improve their lives - but of course he doesn't and it won't. The opposite, in fact, in both cases.

    To win again next time, therefore, the Cons must hope that the Who were talking out of their backsides. I do not believe they were - so I think Starmer is on his way to Downing St. It's more of a 'when' than an 'if'.

    1. The 'red-wallers' aren't the naive dupes you take them for. And the fact you see them that way probably indicates that they won't be returning to the warm embrace of people who think like you any time soon. They weren't persuaded that Boris shared their values, they voted for him in preference to a party that clearly despised their values. That doesn't look like it will change any time soon, but Kier accepting Brexit was, in fairness, a start.
    2. You have no idea whether Brexit will make anyone's life worse. I appreciate you'll have read a thousand editorials confidently predicting economic armageddon, but it's always a mistake believing one's own publicity.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    ClippP said:

    Tribalism aside, can anyone really say, with hand on heart, that Boris Johnson is any good? If so, how?

    He's good at winning elections, doncha know?
    Two London Mayoralties
    Brexit (arguably)
    Tory Leadership
    GE 2019
    Cheating and chicanery for the most part. So what else can you tell us?
    That he's only good at winning elections? :lol:
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,981

    justin124 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I don't see Farage returning as a major force post- Brexit. Any party he led would be deprived of the oxygen of publicity readily provided by the EU parliamentary elections.
    Not to mention deprived of the oxygen of publicity from the European Parliament.
    Tommy Robinson found an audience, I'm sure Tommy Robinson lite (i.e. Farage) will find one - and I suspect it will be bigger than many expect it to be.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,304
    isam said:

    .

    isam said:

    Tribalism aside, can anyone really say, with hand on heart, that Boris Johnson is any good? If so, how?

    As Sunil said. He did demonstrably better than Cameron and May managed in GEs, had a big hand in winning the referendum, won 2/2 Mayoralties, is a well regarded journalist and author. Women find him attractive

    Where did it all go wrong Mr Best?

    I think you missed the 'Tribalism aside' bit. Yes, your party has had political success under him (was that luck or good management?) but I was trying to dig a bit deeper. (His merits as a journalist, author and lothario are probably up for debate.)
    I didn't miss it at all, I am not a Tory.

    I voted against him when he ran for London Mayor, and bet against him because I thought he was a buffoon. I voted Tory in December at the last minute because they were the only ones who were going to respect the referendum result, it is ridiculous to call them "my party", it turned my stomach to do it. I am just capable of being able to judge people on their record, and electorally he has a fantastic one.

    It is you who cannot see things without bias. The things I stated that he is good at are demonstrably true, whether you like him or not.
    My apologies. But (to me at least) you do come across as one of the most tribal Tories on here.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,639
    O/T
    This is no great loss, people could do with using their phones less IMO.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/strip-out-huawei-kit-and-face-mobile-phone-blackouts-ch82gz737
  • Options
    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,435
    ClippP said:

    Tribalism aside, can anyone really say, with hand on heart, that Boris Johnson is any good? If so, how?

    He's good at winning elections, doncha know?
    Two London Mayoralties
    Brexit (arguably)
    Tory Leadership
    GE 2019
    Cheating and chicanery for the most part. So what else can you tell us?
    Fathering?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    I see your London protests and raise you some "Quarantine Raves":

    "Greater Manchester illegal raves: Man dies, woman raped and three stabbed"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-53040827
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,082
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T
    This is no great loss, people could do with using their phones less IMO.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/strip-out-huawei-kit-and-face-mobile-phone-blackouts-ch82gz737

    Some people really couldn't.

    Their mobile is a fundamental part of their identity and life.
  • Options
    ClippPClippP Posts: 1,684

    ClippP said:

    Tribalism aside, can anyone really say, with hand on heart, that Boris Johnson is any good? If so, how?

    He's good at winning elections, doncha know?
    Two London Mayoralties
    Brexit (arguably)
    Tory Leadership
    GE 2019
    Cheating and chicanery for the most part. So what else can you tell us?
    That he's only good at winning elections? :lol:
    But not honestly, according to the rules. That is why the Conservatives are no longer trusted. They are cheats.

    Would you want to play cards with a Conservative?
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,082
    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Does simply making it one metre make schools "back to normal"?
    Much magical thinking here.
    I just don't get it. This is the same farce as we had with masks.

    Masks are really bad no they are really good!

    One metre is deadly no it's fine!

    WTF are they doing
    The problem, as well as the confused messaging you allude to, is that the physical infrastructure is simply not there in most schools.
    The classrooms are too small. So you need smaller class sizes. But there aren't enough teachers. Or extra classrooms. There aren't enough toilets or washing facilities. The corridors are too narrow for kids to distance. Etc, etc.
    All of these still apply whether one or two metres.
    None of these are the fault of Unions who are pointing out these issues. Nor are they insurmountable.
    But the solutions all necessitate that they will not "return to normal" until there is a vaccine.
    OR we accept that there will be an ongoing and significant level of infection, of a new disease which kills 1% of those it affects, and is fairly nasty with 5-20%

    The government should maybe just prepare us for a new and nastier amount of risk, so as to save the economy, and our kids' brains

    Well yes of course.
    That is the other alternative. However, the government seems to want it both ways.
    it's time to choose the hard nosed Swedish model. People are going to die. There is a new disease. We have no choice. Destroying the economy, and the education of a million kids, is even worse.
    Difficult in the healthandsafety culture we've created.

    Alongside the blame culture and the compensation culture.

    There is no shortage of people who would rather destroy the economy and the education of a million kids than have the right boxes unticked.
  • Options
    NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    What I want to know is whether we are now better at treating the disease? Have survival chances for those infected improved?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,974
    eadric said:

    Attack on North Britain, day 2.

    Monuments still unscathed so these guys are doing a great job.

    https://twitter.com/SunScotNational/status/1272142241180467202

    Still dismal weather up there, I see

    Scorchio again down here. Sorry
    sun shining 25 miles down on west coast, beautiful.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,444
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T
    This is no great loss, people could do with using their phones less IMO.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/strip-out-huawei-kit-and-face-mobile-phone-blackouts-ch82gz737

    Only an idiot would say such a thing.

    My friend’s health depends on having a robust mobile signal.

    For those shielding/lockdown being able to connect with other people has been great.

    Remember not everyone has access to (fast) home broadband.

  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,082
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Does simply making it one metre make schools "back to normal"?
    Much magical thinking here.
    I just don't get it. This is the same farce as we had with masks.

    Masks are really bad no they are really good!

    One metre is deadly no it's fine!

    WTF are they doing
    The problem, as well as the confused messaging you allude to, is that the physical infrastructure is simply not there in most schools.
    The classrooms are too small. So you need smaller class sizes. But there aren't enough teachers. Or extra classrooms. There aren't enough toilets or washing facilities. The corridors are too narrow for kids to distance. Etc, etc.
    All of these still apply whether one or two metres.
    None of these are the fault of Unions who are pointing out these issues. Nor are they insurmountable.
    But the solutions all necessitate that they will not "return to normal" until there is a vaccine.
    OR we accept that there will be an ongoing and significant level of infection, of a new disease which kills 1% of those it affects, and is fairly nasty with 5-20%

    The government should maybe just prepare us for a new and nastier amount of risk, so as to save the economy, and our kids' brains

    Well yes of course.
    That is the other alternative. However, the government seems to want it both ways.
    it's time to choose the hard nosed Swedish model. People are going to die. There is a new disease. We have no choice. Destroying the economy, and the education of a million kids, is even worse.
    Difficult in the healthandsafety culture we've created.

    Alongside the blame culture and the compensation culture.

    There is no shortage of people who would rather destroy the economy and the education of a million kids than have the right boxes unticked.
    I don't think they have any idea what is about to hit us, economically.

    A 25% fall in GDP..... SO FAR
    They don't care.

    See the last thread with its 'teachers will need a pay rise' talk.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    eadric said:
    Yepp. But they shut on Friday. Not back til 19 August. Nine and half weeks fun, here we come! And the weather has been fantastic for two months. I’ve already got a cracking tan, and been swimming nearly every day for last month, sometimes twice a day.

    Football summer-school, handball summercamp, sailing, the usual. The only deviation from the normal is no foreign trips, but the wife seems determined to drag me to Greece or Italy at the end of July, so we’ll see. I’m looking forward to my three domestic Swedish trips.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007
    MrEd said:

    justin124 said:

    eadric said:

    justin124 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I don't see Farage returning as a major force post- Brexit. Any party he led would be deprived of the oxygen of publicity readily provided by the EU parliamentary elections.
    He's betting on a second wave and a culture war. Quite frankly, he might be right
    The Opposition would be much more likely to be the beneficiary of any second wave. Were Corbyn still in place, Farage might pull in some support - but not now. A culture war also has too much of a BNP smell to have potential to reach far.
    Starmer's big problem is that, while people may be warming to him, people still view his party as containing a bunch of hard-left activists and MPs who would ultimately be directing what a Labour Government would do (the implication is that people don't believe Starmer controls his party: I think that is fair enough). This is why you had Starmer far outpolling the Labour party with YouGov as to how people view their respective suitabilities for Government.

    It is why I disagree with the view that it is leadership ratings that will determine the outcome of a General Election. That only works if people believe the party is in line with the leader and their views. It is clear people are sceptical. Unless Starmer shows he is willing to go to town against MPs like Dawn Butler, Naz Shah and the rest of them who like to proclaim how racism is the #1 defining issue in the country and antifa are saints vs those nasty right wing thugs etc etc, many Red Wall voters will not come back to Labour.

    As for the Tories, I think Boris is gone next year. He's tired, he's got a new kid, he is falling behind in the ratings and the UK will have cut its ties with the EU, which will give him an opportunity to go out on a "high". Most importantly, though, I don't think he has the heart for fighting a culture war, which will be the defining feature of politics for the next few years, and being a posh, white bloke, he is at a slight disadvantage. When the penny drops for him (if it hasn't) as to the political mood of the next few years, he will be out.

    I'm also sceptical, in this scenario, Rishi Sunak is the front-runner. Yes, he's nice and done a good job so far with the economy but, as someone said to me the only day, he comes across as a bit wet and lacking steel. I think who the Conservatives (MPs and activists) will decide they will need to fight back in the culture wars is someone aggressive and willing to take the fight to the left. So - actionable idea - I'm going for Priti Patel as the next PM (35/1 last time I looked on Ladbrokes). Her statement at the dispatch box and how she handled the letter from the Labour MPs on race shows she is not afraid of a fight and that is likely to appeal.
    Patel polls worse than Boris, Sunak polls better. If Boris goes the only viable alternative in government is Sunak.

    However while Sunak would win back some Remainers from Starmer and Labour he would lose some Leavers to Farage and the Brexit Party
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    eadric said:

    THIS is incredible. Sky News caught in the most outrageous lie

    A compilation of some of the violence by Black Lives Matter protesters at Waterloo Station - you can hear them chanting "fuck EDL". It speaks for itself.

    Sky calmly says these are the "counter demonstrators, who came to defend statues"

    I mean, I'm not one for grassy knolls, but Jesus

    https://twitter.com/SE17_Ronnie/status/1272172439020191744?s=20

    I'm baffled at your 'incredible'.

    Without even paying attention I know that nearly all of those protesting fall in to two categories - daft as a brush, or out for trouble. All in the latter category are also in the first, by definition.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007
    edited June 2020
    eadric said:

    eadric said:
    Yepp. But they shut on Friday. Not back til 19 August. Nine and half weeks fun, here we come! And the weather has been fantastic for two months. I’ve already got a cracking tan, and been swimming nearly every day for last month, sometimes twice a day.

    Football summer-school, handball summercamp, sailing, the usual. The only deviation from the normal is no foreign trips, but the wife seems determined to drag me to Greece or Italy at the end of July, so we’ll see. I’m looking forward to my three domestic Swedish trips.
    You............

    ....... don't live in Scotland?

    Hahahaha

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


    hahahahahahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HEHEHEHEH HEEHAW hah
    Most wealthy Scottish independence backers don't, see Sir Sean Connery, Sir Andy Murray, Brian Cox, Alan Cumming etc
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,744
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Does simply making it one metre make schools "back to normal"?
    Much magical thinking here.
    I just don't get it. This is the same farce as we had with masks.

    Masks are really bad no they are really good!

    One metre is deadly no it's fine!

    WTF are they doing
    The problem, as well as the confused messaging you allude to, is that the physical infrastructure is simply not there in most schools.
    The classrooms are too small. So you need smaller class sizes. But there aren't enough teachers. Or extra classrooms. There aren't enough toilets or washing facilities. The corridors are too narrow for kids to distance. Etc, etc.
    All of these still apply whether one or two metres.
    None of these are the fault of Unions who are pointing out these issues. Nor are they insurmountable.
    But the solutions all necessitate that they will not "return to normal" until there is a vaccine.
    OR we accept that there will be an ongoing and significant level of infection, of a new disease which kills 1% of those it affects, and is fairly nasty with 5-20%

    The government should maybe just prepare us for a new and nastier amount of risk, so as to save the economy, and our kids' brains

    Well yes of course.
    That is the other alternative. However, the government seems to want it both ways.
    it's time to choose the hard nosed Swedish model. People are going to die. There is a new disease. We have no choice. Destroying the economy, and the education of a million kids, is even worse.
    Difficult in the healthandsafety culture we've created.

    Alongside the blame culture and the compensation culture.

    There is no shortage of people who would rather destroy the economy and the education of a million kids than have the right boxes unticked.
    I don't think they have any idea what is about to hit us, economically.

    A 25% fall in GDP..... SO FAR
    Well its pretty much a certainty GDP will rise from here so not sure why SO FAR is in captitals apart from more attempts to spread fear?
  • Options
    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Does simply making it one metre make schools "back to normal"?
    Much magical thinking here.
    I just don't get it. This is the same farce as we had with masks.

    Masks are really bad no they are really good!

    One metre is deadly no it's fine!

    WTF are they doing
    The problem, as well as the confused messaging you allude to, is that the physical infrastructure is simply not there in most schools.
    The classrooms are too small. So you need smaller class sizes. But there aren't enough teachers. Or extra classrooms. There aren't enough toilets or washing facilities. The corridors are too narrow for kids to distance. Etc, etc.
    All of these still apply whether one or two metres.
    None of these are the fault of Unions who are pointing out these issues. Nor are they insurmountable.
    But the solutions all necessitate that they will not "return to normal" until there is a vaccine.
    OR we accept that there will be an ongoing and significant level of infection, of a new disease which kills 1% of those it affects, and is fairly nasty with 5-20%

    The government should maybe just prepare us for a new and nastier amount of risk, so as to save the economy, and our kids' brains

    Well yes of course.
    That is the other alternative. However, the government seems to want it both ways.
    it's time to choose the hard nosed Swedish model. People are going to die. There is a new disease. We have no choice. Destroying the economy, and the education of a million kids, is even worse.
    Difficult in the healthandsafety culture we've created.

    Alongside the blame culture and the compensation culture.

    There is no shortage of people who would rather destroy the economy and the education of a million kids than have the right boxes unticked.
    I don't think they have any idea what is about to hit us, economically.

    A 25% fall in GDP..... SO FAR
    They don't care.

    See the last thread with its 'teachers will need a pay rise' talk.
    I much prefer the 'hard-nosed' Japanese model ...

    No-one forcibly locked up
    7 deaths per million
    vs Sweden >300
    or UK >600.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited June 2020
    eadric said:

    eadric said:
    Yepp. But they shut on Friday. Not back til 19 August. Nine and half weeks fun, here we come! And the weather has been fantastic for two months. I’ve already got a cracking tan, and been swimming nearly every day for last month, sometimes twice a day.

    Football summer-school, handball summercamp, sailing, the usual. The only deviation from the normal is no foreign trips, but the wife seems determined to drag me to Greece or Italy at the end of July, so we’ll see. I’m looking forward to my three domestic Swedish trips.
    You............

    ....... don't live in Scotland?

    Hahahaha

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


    hahahahahahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HEHEHEHEH HEEHAW hah
    You don’t live in Wales, nor Cornwall, nor a Bangkok brothel.

    The real SeanT was well aware of my residency. You sir are an imposter.

    Bugger pale imitations, we want the real thing. Sex, drugs and rock n roll.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,225

    kinabalu said:

    Starmer has surprised on the upside. I didn't vote for him but I'm quite happy with him so far.

    The big picture is that the election was won by persuading the Red Wallers that "Boris" shared their values and that he and his "Brexit" would improve their lives - but of course he doesn't and it won't. The opposite, in fact, in both cases.

    To win again next time, therefore, the Cons must hope that the Who were talking out of their backsides. I do not believe they were - so I think Starmer is on his way to Downing St. It's more of a 'when' than an 'if'.

    1. The 'red-wallers' aren't the naive dupes you take them for. And the fact you see them that way probably indicates that they won't be returning to the warm embrace of people who think like you any time soon. They weren't persuaded that Boris shared their values, they voted for him in preference to a party that clearly despised their values. That doesn't look like it will change any time soon, but Kier accepting Brexit was, in fairness, a start.
    2. You have no idea whether Brexit will make anyone's life worse. I appreciate you'll have read a thousand editorials confidently predicting economic armageddon, but it's always a mistake believing one's own publicity.
    I'm saying they will NOT get fooled again. I have a reservoir of respect for joe average despite being so far from average myself.

    This is also the core reason why I am close to certain that Trump is doomed this year.

    As for Brexit not helping them materially - this seems a given to me. I just cannot see how it can possibly be otherwise.
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