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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Washington DC – the capital city where in democratic terms its

SystemSystem Posts: 8,258
edited June 20 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Washington DC – the capital city where in democratic terms its residents are second class citizens

Just imagine what would happen if those people who resided in the City of Westminster were not allowed to have an MP. It would be decidedly odd and very hard to justify on democratic terms and no doubt the residents there would rightly feel angry. Well that is the situation that exists for the 0.75m people whose home is in Washington DC.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 4,161
    First, but alas not much to say :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 34,876
    re. Madness, FPT

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 34,876
    re. The Room, FPT

    For some unfathomable reason, it has a rating on Rotten Tomatoes not of 0%, but of 25%!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 34,876
    DC and Puerto Rico should become States! Higher population in Puerto Rico than in around 20 of the 50 states! Sad!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 11,540
    A bunch of academics on a couple of park benches chewing the fat.

    Great stuff in 1970.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 4,885
    NHS England data -

    Headline - 71
    Last 7 days - 59
    Yesterday - 6

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 2,633
    The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 34,027
    If you look at the industrial scale voter suppression in states such as Georgia, Kentucky and North Carolina there are many parts of the US where many residents are second class citizens in terms of access to democracy. It is going to be absolutely epic come November time.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 17,386
    Simple solution - put the city back into Maryland.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 47,163

    The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.

    Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 18,829

    If you look at the industrial scale voter suppression in states such as Georgia, Kentucky and North Carolina there are many parts of the US where many residents are second class citizens in terms of access to democracy. It is going to be absolutely epic come November time.

    Some years ago the late Robert Mugabe offered to give the USA some advice on the democratic process. TBH, I think they should have taken it.
    The USA, as an example of democracy, is a disgrace.

    Yes, I know there's a lot wrong with ours, and I fear we're sliding backwards.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 33,796
    Just checked into 1970. A woman in a market going on about Rhodesia. Difficult to remember what an issue that was back then.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 73,082
    edited June 20
    I would not feel too sorry for Washington DC, it has the highest average GDP per capita in the USA at $160 000.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita.

    Plus half the residents are either legislators or work for legislators in Congress or at the White House or a Government department anyway.

    As has been pointed out DC also has votes in the Electoral College and is the only area to have always voted Democrat in every presidential election since it had electors, casting 90% of its votes for Hillary Clinton in 2016
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 2,633
    RobD said:

    The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.

    Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
    In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,894
    edited June 20
    Huge number of surveillance (pillar 4) tests today, 56k - most via mail. They must be starting a new programme there.

    Edit: twas a lumpsum revision, not a daily increase.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 4,885
    edited June 20
    Since the NHS England hospital deaths has become strikingly linear, I tried a linear trend line.

    image

    No, I don't think this will happen this quickly - but it is interesting none the less.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 4,161

    If you look at the industrial scale voter suppression in states such as Georgia, Kentucky and North Carolina there are many parts of the US where many residents are second class citizens in terms of access to democracy. It is going to be absolutely epic come November time.

    Some years ago the late Robert Mugabe offered to give the USA some advice on the democratic process. TBH, I think they should have taken it.
    The USA, as an example of democracy, is a disgrace.

    Yes, I know there's a lot wrong with ours, and I fear we're sliding backwards.
    I think that the UK democratic process is in a good place. The only blight is the media - there's no good there - woeful beyond measure.

    What was Mugabe's advice?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 18,829

    Just checked into 1970. A woman in a market going on about Rhodesia. Difficult to remember what an issue that was back then.

    I was once, while canvassing for the Liberal Party escorted off a premises. There were remarks about 'bombing our people' generated by a misunderstanding of Jeremy Thorpe's position.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 33,796
    Good God, the Liberals used to hold B'ham Ladywood.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 10,623
    Scott_xP said:
    Somebody did point out online that for the information to be classified, as the White House claims, it has to be true...!
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,894


    No, I don't think this will happen this quickly - but it is interesting none the less.

    Underlying exponential but with gradual change in backdating over time making it appear linear?

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 17,386

    RobD said:

    The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.

    Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
    In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.
    Its population is a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

    Almost the definition of a democrat party stronghold.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 2,633
    HYUFD said:

    I would not feel too sorry for Washington DC, it has the highest average GDP per capita in the USA at $160 000.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita.

    Plus half the residents are either legislators or work for legislators in Congress or at the White House or a Government department anyway.

    As has been pointed out DC also has votes in the Electoral College and is the only area to have always voted Democrat in every presidential election since it had electors, casting 90% of its votes for Hillary Clinton in 2016

    Have you even been to DC? It has some incredibly poor neighbourhoods. The GDP per capita statistics you mention are not at all a useful way of measuring the incomes of the people living there (many of the better paid people working in DC commute in from Southern Maryland or Northern Virginia, and their incomes are what are driving up GDP as well as lowering the denominator). Your statement that half the population are just Congressional staffers is indicative of what I mentioned earlier about the long term resident population being invisible.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 33,796
    George Bernard Shaw has just appeared on 1970 GE show (an old film clip).

    Did the BBC issue a trigger warning?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 4,885
    Andrew said:


    No, I don't think this will happen this quickly - but it is interesting none the less.

    Underlying exponential but with gradual change in backdating over time making it appear linear?

    Maaaaaaaybe....
  • FishingFishing Posts: 969
    edited June 20

    The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black.

    Probably not strictly true any more. According to the 2010 census, the black share, once more than 70%, had fallen to only 51% as the gentrification of the city pushed blacks out to Prince George's Co. Md, and other places. It'll have fallen further since then.

    On topic, I think the last thing America needs is yet another small state with disproportionate clout in the Senate. The district should be absorbed back into Maryland.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 2,633

    RobD said:

    The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.

    Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
    In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.
    Its population is a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

    Almost the definition of a democrat party stronghold.
    So they shouldn't be represented in Congress because they vote the wrong way?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 18,829

    Good God, the Liberals used to hold B'ham Ladywood.

    It was won in a by-election a couple of years earlier. How Wallace Lawler got himself elected as a Liberal was a matter of surprise in some quarters.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 969
    edited June 20
    RobD said:

    The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.

    Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
    Unfortunately, with blacks overwhelmingly voting Democrat, you can't split the two.

    Virtually everything in America has a racial component, to an extent baffling to us, though we're starting to see glimpses of it here.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,894
    Biden+10, Surveymonkey. Admittedly not a pollster with a great record in the US.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 29,154

    George Bernard Shaw has just appeared on 1970 GE show (an old film clip).

    Did the BBC issue a trigger warning?

    He wasn’t terribly impressive for such a remarkable man, was he? But given he was 75 at the time, we should make some allowance.

    I have to say, the quality of that clip was far better than the quality of this overall production. Looks an LP VHS that’s been left in the sum.

    Interesting Skidelsky was writing Wilson off and RR James wasn’t.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 2,633
    Fishing said:

    The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black.

    Probably not strictly true any more. According to the 2010 census, the black share, once 80%, had fallen to only 51% as the gentrification of the city pushed blacks out to Prince George's Co. Md, and other places. It'll have fallen further since then.

    On topic, I think the last thing America needs is yet another small state with disproportionate clout in the Senate. The district should be absorbed back into Maryland.
    You may be right, even while we lived there the city became more white. My guess is that as the majority of the population becomes white it will get a vote. The whole malaportionment in the Senate is an absurd anomaly, but as long as places like Wyoming and North Dakota get two Senators I don't see why DC shouldn't.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 47,163

    RobD said:

    The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.

    Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
    In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.
    I dunno, it has been around for 200 years and the voting rights haven't changed regardless of the makeup of the population.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 17,386

    RobD said:

    The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.

    Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
    In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.
    Its population is a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

    Almost the definition of a democrat party stronghold.
    So they shouldn't be represented in Congress because they vote the wrong way?
    I've already given the solution - put DC back into Maryland.

    But I take it you don't disagree that it is a place with a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

    Perhaps people might consider why such places always seem to be democrat party strongholds.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 941
    1970 - I love that the BBC didn't have enough colour video cameras
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,365
    edited June 20

    If you look at the industrial scale voter suppression in states such as Georgia, Kentucky and North Carolina there are many parts of the US where many residents are second class citizens in terms of access to democracy. It is going to be absolutely epic come November time.

    This is astonishing. One polling station for 600 000 voters in the substantially African American area. Is it any wonder that people get disillusioned with democratic means of redress?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 73,082
    edited June 20

    HYUFD said:

    I would not feel too sorry for Washington DC, it has the highest average GDP per capita in the USA at $160 000.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita.

    Plus half the residents are either legislators or work for legislators in Congress or at the White House or a Government department anyway.

    As has been pointed out DC also has votes in the Electoral College and is the only area to have always voted Democrat in every presidential election since it had electors, casting 90% of its votes for Hillary Clinton in 2016

    Have you even been to DC? It has some incredibly poor neighbourhoods. The GDP per capita statistics you mention are not at all a useful way of measuring the incomes of the people living there (many of the better paid people working in DC commute in from Southern Maryland or Northern Virginia, and their incomes are what are driving up GDP as well as lowering the denominator). Your statement that half the population are just Congressional staffers is indicative of what I mentioned earlier about the long term resident population being invisible.
    Yes I have, I went in the late 1990s.

    It is basically a medium sized city not a state and as has been mentioned earlier if it wants legislators not just electoral college votes it should rejoin Maryland which was the state it was originally in until the American revolution when it was created the be the US capital
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 4,161
    CatMan said:

    1970 - I love that the BBC didn't have enough colour video cameras

    They did very much more with less perhaps?

    Whatever happened to the days when you could trust the BBC - or even more sadly the Times newspaper?

    Lesser outlets have stayed that way. The Independent newspaper for example has gone from admirable to abominable.

    Perhaps the Sun has become better - it couldn't have become worse.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 33,796
    ydoethur said:

    George Bernard Shaw has just appeared on 1970 GE show (an old film clip).

    Did the BBC issue a trigger warning?

    He wasn’t terribly impressive for such a remarkable man, was he? But given he was 75 at the time, we should make some allowance.

    I have to say, the quality of that clip was far better than the quality of this overall production. Looks an LP VHS that’s been left in the sum.

    Interesting Skidelsky was writing Wilson off and RR James wasn’t.
    I am awaiting the woke brigade realising that he was into eugenics and burning all his books and plays.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 82,435
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I would not feel too sorry for Washington DC, it has the highest average GDP per capita in the USA at $160 000.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita.

    Plus half the residents are either legislators or work for legislators in Congress or at the White House or a Government department anyway.

    As has been pointed out DC also has votes in the Electoral College and is the only area to have always voted Democrat in every presidential election since it had electors, casting 90% of its votes for Hillary Clinton in 2016

    Have you even been to DC? It has some incredibly poor neighbourhoods. The GDP per capita statistics you mention are not at all a useful way of measuring the incomes of the people living there (many of the better paid people working in DC commute in from Southern Maryland or Northern Virginia, and their incomes are what are driving up GDP as well as lowering the denominator). Your statement that half the population are just Congressional staffers is indicative of what I mentioned earlier about the long term resident population being invisible.
    Yes I have, I went in the late 1990s.

    It is basically a medium sized city not a state and as has been mentioned earlier if it wants legislators not just electoral college votes it should rejoin Maryland which was the state it was originally in until the American revolution when it was created the be the US capital
    There are two states with smaller populations than DC and similar to two others.

    Should those other states become cities instead?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 33,017
    edited June 20
    HYUFD said:
    Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 2,633

    RobD said:

    The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.

    Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
    In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.
    Its population is a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

    Almost the definition of a democrat party stronghold.
    So they shouldn't be represented in Congress because they vote the wrong way?
    I've already given the solution - put DC back into Maryland.

    But I take it you don't disagree that it is a place with a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

    Perhaps people might consider why such places always seem to be democrat party strongholds.
    It would make sense to reabsorb DC into Maryland, the same way that Alexandria was reabsorbed into Virginia. But for some reason the Americans are very attached to the idea of a separate capital so I don't know how plausible that is.
    DC is the most racially segregated place I've ever lived in. The Black population are mostly Democrats I guess for the same reason most Black voters are Democrats, that unlike the Republicans they are not an overtly racist party (and haven't been since LBJ lost the South in the sixties) although when you consider what Black voters have actually got out of their loyalty to the Democrats all these years you have to wonder whether they have been well rewarded.
    The White population is more transient, many of them work in political roles and so they are a mix of hyper partisan on both sides, but the Republicans often prefer to live in Virginia for whatever reason (lower taxes?). The more permanent White population tends to be government workers who tend to vote Democrat I guess because the Democrats are more supportive of government spending (the Republicans keep shutting down the government so these guys don't get paid, which isn't very popular). I wouldn't describe the White population as an Overclass, they're mostly just middle class bureaucrats, college students and young Congressional staffers, not the Bildeberg group.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 28,030
    RobD said:

    The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.

    Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
    Originally they didn’t want the capital in any state so they created a neutral “district” which was federal not a state. Hence it isn’t represented in the federation as it isn’t a member.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 4,161

    RobD said:

    The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.

    Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
    In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.
    Its population is a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

    Almost the definition of a democrat party stronghold.
    So they shouldn't be represented in Congress because they vote the wrong way?
    I've already given the solution - put DC back into Maryland.

    But I take it you don't disagree that it is a place with a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

    Perhaps people might consider why such places always seem to be democrat party strongholds.
    It would make sense to reabsorb DC into Maryland, the same way that Alexandria was reabsorbed into Virginia. But for some reason the Americans are very attached to the idea of a separate capital so I don't know how plausible that is.
    DC is the most racially segregated place I've ever lived in. The Black population are mostly Democrats I guess for the same reason most Black voters are Democrats, that unlike the Republicans they are not an overtly racist party (and haven't been since LBJ lost the South in the sixties) although when you consider what Black voters have actually got out of their loyalty to the Democrats all these years you have to wonder whether they have been well rewarded.
    The White population is more transient, many of them work in political roles and so they are a mix of hyper partisan on both sides, but the Republicans often prefer to live in Virginia for whatever reason (lower taxes?). The more permanent White population tends to be government workers who tend to vote Democrat I guess because the Democrats are more supportive of government spending (the Republicans keep shutting down the government so these guys don't get paid, which isn't very popular). I wouldn't describe the White population as an Overclass, they're mostly just middle class bureaucrats, college students and young Congressional staffers, not the Bildeberg group.
    I know you don't mean to, but you've just carefully explained black vs white.

    When you see it, it's there, and when you don't.. poof!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 29,154
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I would not feel too sorry for Washington DC, it has the highest average GDP per capita in the USA at $160 000.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita.

    Plus half the residents are either legislators or work for legislators in Congress or at the White House or a Government department anyway.

    As has been pointed out DC also has votes in the Electoral College and is the only area to have always voted Democrat in every presidential election since it had electors, casting 90% of its votes for Hillary Clinton in 2016

    Have you even been to DC? It has some incredibly poor neighbourhoods. The GDP per capita statistics you mention are not at all a useful way of measuring the incomes of the people living there (many of the better paid people working in DC commute in from Southern Maryland or Northern Virginia, and their incomes are what are driving up GDP as well as lowering the denominator). Your statement that half the population are just Congressional staffers is indicative of what I mentioned earlier about the long term resident population being invisible.
    Yes I have, I went in the late 1990s.

    It is basically a medium sized city not a state and as has been mentioned earlier if it wants legislators not just electoral college votes it should rejoin Maryland which was the state it was originally in until the American revolution when it was created the be the US capital
    Actually, it was many years after the revolution. At first the capital varied between New York and Philadelphia. It didn’t move to Washington until 1800 - indeed, Congress didn’t meet there in full and full time until 1807.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 29,154

    HYUFD said:
    Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
    Does it matter? The important thing is now he’s there, we need him to stay there.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 29,154

    ydoethur said:

    George Bernard Shaw has just appeared on 1970 GE show (an old film clip).

    Did the BBC issue a trigger warning?

    He wasn’t terribly impressive for such a remarkable man, was he? But given he was 75 at the time, we should make some allowance.

    I have to say, the quality of that clip was far better than the quality of this overall production. Looks an LP VHS that’s been left in the sum.

    Interesting Skidelsky was writing Wilson off and RR James wasn’t.
    I am awaiting the woke brigade realising that he was into eugenics and burning all his books and plays.

    They would be following in the footsteps of the great man himself. He once said that as he got older he understood all plays were very bad and they should all be banned.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 28,030
    Foxy said:

    If you look at the industrial scale voter suppression in states such as Georgia, Kentucky and North Carolina there are many parts of the US where many residents are second class citizens in terms of access to democracy. It is going to be absolutely epic come November time.

    This is astonishing. One polling station for 600 000 voters in the substantially African American area. Is it any wonder that people get disillusioned with democratic means of redress?

    What’s their stated justification for doing that?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 2,971
    The Australian solution is to have 7 senators for each state and 2 for the two territories, one of which is ACT- Australian Capital Territory ie Canberra. It would be possible to give DC one senator and a handful of representatives. This would also lead to there being an odd number or Senators, making a 50/50 split impossible.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 4,288
    edited June 20
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    If you look at the industrial scale voter suppression in states such as Georgia, Kentucky and North Carolina there are many parts of the US where many residents are second class citizens in terms of access to democracy. It is going to be absolutely epic come November time.

    This is astonishing. One polling station for 600 000 voters in the substantially African American area. Is it any wonder that people get disillusioned with democratic means of redress?

    What’s their stated justification for doing that?
    The suppression of Democrat votes?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 3,497
    eristdoof said:

    The Australian solution is to have 7 senators for each state and 2 for the two territories, one of which is ACT- Australian Capital Territory ie Canberra. It would be possible to give DC one senator and a handful of representatives. This would also lead to there being an odd number or Senators, making a 50/50 split impossible.

    A problem with this idea is that it is no easier to implement as it violates the Constitution of the USA, and DC would still have fewer senators than several smaller states. There are also connected reasons why many in DC want statehood, e.g. the deployment of the National Guard.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 2,971

    RobD said:

    The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.

    Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
    In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.
    Its population is a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

    Almost the definition of a democrat party stronghold.
    So they shouldn't be represented in Congress because they vote the wrong way?
    How about getting rid of the constituency Cities of London and Westminster? 'cos they always return a tory.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 14,933
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    If you look at the industrial scale voter suppression in states such as Georgia, Kentucky and North Carolina there are many parts of the US where many residents are second class citizens in terms of access to democracy. It is going to be absolutely epic come November time.

    This is astonishing. One polling station for 600 000 voters in the substantially African American area. Is it any wonder that people get disillusioned with democratic means of redress?

    What’s their stated justification for doing that?
    That postal voting will be so high they only need 1 polling place for over half a million people.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 34,876

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I would not feel too sorry for Washington DC, it has the highest average GDP per capita in the USA at $160 000.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per_capita.

    Plus half the residents are either legislators or work for legislators in Congress or at the White House or a Government department anyway.

    As has been pointed out DC also has votes in the Electoral College and is the only area to have always voted Democrat in every presidential election since it had electors, casting 90% of its votes for Hillary Clinton in 2016

    Have you even been to DC? It has some incredibly poor neighbourhoods. The GDP per capita statistics you mention are not at all a useful way of measuring the incomes of the people living there (many of the better paid people working in DC commute in from Southern Maryland or Northern Virginia, and their incomes are what are driving up GDP as well as lowering the denominator). Your statement that half the population are just Congressional staffers is indicative of what I mentioned earlier about the long term resident population being invisible.
    Yes I have, I went in the late 1990s.

    It is basically a medium sized city not a state and as has been mentioned earlier if it wants legislators not just electoral college votes it should rejoin Maryland which was the state it was originally in until the American revolution when it was created the be the US capital
    There are two states with smaller populations than DC and similar to two others.

    Should those other states become cities instead?
    Also, Puerto Rico is more populous than at least 20 states!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 4,288

    HYUFD said:
    Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
    Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 29,154
    edited June 20

    HYUFD said:
    Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
    Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?
    Very much so. They find it tends to drag on.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 776
    Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 776

    HYUFD said:
    Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
    Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?
    You must be a fan of V
  • Omnium said:

    CatMan said:

    1970 - I love that the BBC didn't have enough colour video cameras

    They did very much more with less perhaps?

    Whatever happened to the days when you could trust the BBC - or even more sadly the Times newspaper?

    Lesser outlets have stayed that way. The Independent newspaper for example has gone from admirable to abominable.

    Perhaps the Sun has become better - it couldn't have become worse.
    At the time there was a lot of resistance to moving to colour from the unions. So in 1970 some shows were filmed on 16mm film and some on black and white video tape. Some series exist partly in colour and partly in black and white.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 4,288
    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:
    Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
    Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?
    You must be a fan of V
    No David Icke!...I'm joking.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 5,544
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
    Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?
    Very much so. They find it tends to drag on.
    There's a long tail of a chronic period during which they feel crocked. Really rather scaly all round.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 29,154
    edited June 20

    Omnium said:

    CatMan said:

    1970 - I love that the BBC didn't have enough colour video cameras

    They did very much more with less perhaps?

    Whatever happened to the days when you could trust the BBC - or even more sadly the Times newspaper?

    Lesser outlets have stayed that way. The Independent newspaper for example has gone from admirable to abominable.

    Perhaps the Sun has become better - it couldn't have become worse.
    At the time there was a lot of resistance to moving to colour from the unions. So in 1970 some shows were filmed on 16mm film and some on black and white video tape. Some series exist partly in colour and partly in black and white.
    Industrial relations are not the usual reason for that. The reason was that colour tapes were generally wiped and reused, because of the cost (£600 a tape, comparable to Arthur Lowe’s salary for Dad’s Army in the early 1970s). But many of the programmes were transferred onto film for sale abroad, usually in black and white because the transfer was easier (you just stuck the camera in front of a very bright TV tube). And because these copies were cheap and plentiful that was therefore what got preserved.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 29,154
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
    Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?
    Very much so. They find it tends to drag on.
    There's a long tail of a chronic period during which they feel crocked. Really rather scaly all round.
    That didn’t feel right. It felt as though you stripped my comment newt and mocked it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 5,544
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
    Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?
    Very much so. They find it tends to drag on.
    There's a long tail of a chronic period during which they feel crocked. Really rather scaly all round.
    That didn’t feel right. It felt as though you stripped my comment newt and mocked it.
    Oh dear, I'm sorry for any offence caused.

    But seriously, Mr Icke can never have looked at any lizard's genitalia (the male ones anyway).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,365
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
    Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?
    Very much so. They find it tends to drag on.
    You speak with forked tongue.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 29,154
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    Have they lifted the restriction on non-US citizens or permanent residents entering the country if they've been in the UK in the previous 14 days, or does Farage have US residency?
    Are reptillian humanoids susceptible to the effects of Covid-19?
    Very much so. They find it tends to drag on.
    There's a long tail of a chronic period during which they feel crocked. Really rather scaly all round.
    That didn’t feel right. It felt as though you stripped my comment newt and mocked it.
    Oh dear, I'm sorry for any offence caused.

    But seriously, Mr Icke can never have looked at any lizard's genitalia (the male ones anyway).
    Why would anyone? It would be a strange thing to monitor.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 59,930
    TimT said:

    Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.

    Tricky to get a solid GOP state carving up Cali


  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 4,877
    TimT said:

    Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 47,163
    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.

    Tricky to get a solid GOP state carving up Cali


    I bet GOP turnout is depressed in CA given how hopeless it is. Same for dems in TX.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 5,544
    eadric said:

    I hought it was only the horrible Yoons that caused unsavoury scuffles in Glasgow?

    I'm a bit hazy about which lot is which but it looks as if that may be the Green Brigade, ie. footie fans. BBC Scotland gives a slightly confusing picture, so to speak:

    "A group of protesters from the Green Brigade - a group of ultras who follow Celtic football club - were hemmed in by police in the centre of the square.

    Anti-racism protesters outside the cordon chanted: "Let them go."

    Ch Supt Alan Murray, said: "We identified a group as football risk supporters, who we believed posed a threat to public safety.

    "We spoke with this group and, at their request, escorted them to the Gallowgate area of the city where they dispersed."

    Separately, a small group of about 50 loyalists were being kept apart from the demonstration by officers."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-53120070
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 28,030
    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.

    Tricky to get a solid GOP state carving up Cali


    OC, Riverside and the IE would work. 2016 was misleading because the Nixon family went for Johnson not Trump
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 54,582
    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.

    Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
    Originally they didn’t want the capital in any state so they created a neutral “district” which was federal not a state. Hence it isn’t represented in the federation as it isn’t a member.
    That was then, it doesn't make Rob's suggestion of a reason for reluctance to change matters now less plausible.

    But the USA is a strange place, electorally.
    TimT said:

    Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.

    Isn't there some rich chap who has been pushing for CA to become 3 or even 6 states?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 29,154

    TimT said:

    Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)
    Surely BLM will go actually apeshit if a state is named after Jefferson?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 54,582

    RobD said:

    The other relevant factor that I think helps to explain why Washington DC hasn't been considered worthy of having voting representation in Congress is that the majority of its population is Black. I believe that DC does have a member of Congress but they can't vote - when we lived there it was Eleanor Holmes Norton IIRC who was excellent. It's a fantastic city with some beautiful neighbourhoods. It's an absolute disgrace that its population is disenfranchised.

    Isn't it more to do with the fact it would add two Democratic senators to the senate rather than race?
    In recent years that may have become the dominant factor. But I do not believe that a city with a long term resident white majority population would have been denied a voice in Congress all this time, it's simply inconceivable. There is a narrative that DC has a transient population, that it's not a real place, it is populated by people from the rest of the country passing through. But the only reason that narrative exists is because the long-term citizens of the city are invisible.
    Its population is a privileged white overclass and an exploited black underclass.

    Almost the definition of a democrat party stronghold.
    So they shouldn't be represented in Congress because they vote the wrong way?
    Given the extent of gerrymandering that goes on I'd not be surprised if plenty there agreed with that statement.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 54,582

    TimT said:

    Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Californias

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cal_3
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 11,757
    HYUFD said:
    Oh dear, he's going to the rally. Father of Brexit creeping around Trump. Sad to see.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 73,082
    edited June 20
    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.

    Tricky to get a solid GOP state carving up Cali


    Interestingly 2016 was the first time Orange County voted for the Democratic candidate for President since 1936.

    It voted 51% for Romney in 2012 but only 42% for Trump in 2016, against the national trend
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 54,582
    I feel very dumb indeed - I only just realised what antifa meant.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 29,154
    Appropriate for a group that are now tilting mostly at windmills.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 33,796
    The top federal prosecutor in Manhattan, who has investigated President Trump’s closest associates, was refusing to leave his position on Saturday after Attorney General William P. Barr tried to fire him, setting up an extraordinary standoff over the independence of law enforcement and the president’s purge of officials he views as disloyal.

    NYTimes
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 5,544
    eadric said:

    Scotland has another level of stupid to add to the mix.

    These are "anti-fascist" football hooligans, the Green Brigade of Celtic fans, come to help the BLM smash monuments.


    I don't think any iconoclasm was planned. And the polis seem to have dealt with it all pretty neatly.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,365
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:
    Oh dear, he's going to the rally. Father of Brexit creeping around Trump. Sad to see.
    Free virus with every ticket...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 35,920
    eadric said:

    Scotland has another level of stupid to add to the mix.

    These are "anti-fascist" football hooligans, the Green Brigade of Celtic fans, come to help the BLM smash monuments.


    No doubt @Theuniondivvie will be along in a moment to tell us that these are all really "Yoon" members of the Orange Order.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 28,857
    edited June 20
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Scotland has another level of stupid to add to the mix.

    These are "anti-fascist" football hooligans, the Green Brigade of Celtic fans, come to help the BLM smash monuments.


    No doubt @Theuniondivvie will be along in a moment to tell us that these are all really "Yoon" members of the Orange Order.
    Glasgow police are well up to sorting out these thickos , they have had lots of practice with these types over the years.
    There will be no joining in,applause, sympathy or standing back they will just sort them out
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,365
    eadric said:

    Scotland has another level of stupid to add to the mix.

    These are "anti-fascist" football hooligans, the Green Brigade of Celtic fans, come to help the BLM smash monuments.


    Smashing stuff up, particularly the stuff that old codgers like, has always tickled the fancy of rebellious youth. It is intrinsically fun.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 59,930
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    Easy, create 2 new states. Give DC statehood, and split CA into two, making a new state out of the republican mountainous/rural areas. Leaves the Senate balanced as currently and gives the most under-represented state, CA, better representation in the Senate.

    Tricky to get a solid GOP state carving up Cali


    I bet GOP turnout is depressed in CA given how hopeless it is. Same for dems in TX.
    Texas is far from hopeless for the Democrats lol
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 33,796
    “The bottom line is nobody’s squealing except Iowans.”


    Joni Ernst and Donald Trump Could Both Be in Trouble in Iowa
    Iowa seemed out of reach for Democrats not too long ago. Now, the presidential race appears to be tightening, and Senator Ernst, a Republican, is facing a strong challenge from a political newcomer.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/20/us/politics/iowa-polls-trump-biden-ernst-greenfield.html
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 54,582
    Foxy said:

    eadric said:

    Scotland has another level of stupid to add to the mix.

    These are "anti-fascist" football hooligans, the Green Brigade of Celtic fans, come to help the BLM smash monuments.


    Smashing stuff up, particularly the stuff that old codgers like, has always tickled the fancy of rebellious youth. It is intrinsically fun.
    Yes, but by those terms very juvenille and not to be romantisised, as many have done and are doing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 5,544
    eadric said:

    Carnyx said:

    eadric said:

    Scotland has another level of stupid to add to the mix.

    These are "anti-fascist" football hooligans, the Green Brigade of Celtic fans, come to help the BLM smash monuments.


    I don't think any iconoclasm was planned. And the polis seem to have dealt with it all pretty neatly.
    The Scots police certainly showed more backbone there than the Met
    Also the polis are wearing facemasks, I see. Not like London IIRC?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 3,497
    Easy solution: Give DC statehood and split Texas in two. I'm sure that will mean a solid two extra senators for Republicans. Innocent face.
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