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  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,775
    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Anyone know where the Guardian money came from to set up the paper in the first place?

    Enterprise!

    Horribly misused enterprise in retrospect. We had an Empire once - hard to believe that the rise of the left and the viral-death of the Empire weren't linked.

    (Probably not all the Guardian's fault though.)
    The 'end of empire' surely was hastened by the expenditure on WWI, which needn't have happened.
    I was hoping that facts might not get in the way of my diatribe :)

    I do in fact think that the politics of the left have been the main factor taking us from super-power to super-numerary. I'm probably wrong though. I've been wrong before, back in the eighties...
    Macmillan recognised the Winds of Change in 1960. Except India and Burma, almost all of the British Empire gained independence in the relatively short period between 1957 and 1964, or were set on an irreversible course in that direction. There were a few late stragglers, but under the Tories, the Empire ended, mostly fairly peacefully.
    I was thinking a little further back. By the 1950s we were toast as an Empire.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,911

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    eristdoof said:

    ydoethur said:

    eadric said:

    kinabalu said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    The Culture Wars continue on Twitter.

    Owen Jones is trying to cancel some Tory at Oxford Uni

    twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1274698217444294656?s=20


    What a spectacle humanity is making of itself. I wish we could cancel the internet

    To be fair, if that Tory bloke did say that about Ash Sarkar then he’s a bellend of the highest order.
    He didn't make the death threat, but he did appear to "condone it" by getting involved in the conversation, so he was a damn fool: agreed.

    However I loathe this cancel culture. I loathe the relish of the cancellers, who love to tear people down. Look at this tweet from the same Owen Jones. Lusting for blood. Yuk.

    twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1274695283658629120?s=20
    I mean, Owen Jones is also a bellend of the highest order.
    The story here is loathsome goon encourages death threats against confident young left wing woman - since nothing gets the goat of these people more than uppity dusky maidens with the wrong politics who don't know their place - and this will remain the story despite the usual tediously predictable efforts of racist, hard right culture warriors to turn it into an "Owen Jones is a wanker" narrative.

    Do not collaborate, I beseech you.
    Death threats are contemptible, but Ash Sarkar is no saint
    As whataboutery goes, that is actually disgusting.

    Whatever she is, she does not deserve death threats.

    And even if for some obscure reason she did, then it is hard to imagine why she should receive them for posting a photo of herself eating a lollipop.

    I mean, come on.
    In this brave new world, every image can be construed as fascist or stalinist or racist or whatever.
    4chan haves turned the OK symbol into a racist thing. I am puzzled as to where this leaves scuba divers - will they have to change the official OK sign?
    I wondered this to. The problem is that the "Thumbs up" sign has another meaning when you are under water, saying "I want to head back up to the surface"
    Exactly.

    I believe the OK = racist thing started as a meme joke. It wasn't true. Then it got adopted by some actual racists. And opponents of racists.

    Bit like the deep fried mars bars thing. In Wiltshire, they heard the story. And the local chip shop started deep frying mars bars....
    So that must be where the English tourists come from that demand DFMBs in the central Edinburgh chippies, to go with their exotic haggis pudden and chips.
    Happened in quite a lot of places, I understand. I was actually in Wiltshire when that happened at the local chip shop.
    I still find it hard to believe there is anyone stupid enough to want a DFMB, haggis and chips I can just about manage.
    Never had a DFMB but battered pizza is amazing. At least the first half is. By the end you are consumed by self loathing and you start to fall into a carb-induced coma.
    Yes had a few of them , same with steak pie , especially on top of huge amount of drink. I have not done it in a very very long time though.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    kinabalu said:

    Lovely!

    Now here the disgraceful comment about Ash Sakar which has landed that bozo in trouble is totally 100% appropriate.

    You reap what you sew.
    Sow!
    ☺ - whoops!

    And I made the effort to put it in italics too.

    An utter car crash.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Anyone know where the Guardian money came from to set up the paper in the first place?

    Enterprise!

    Horribly misused enterprise in retrospect. We had an Empire once - hard to believe that the rise of the left and the viral-death of the Empire weren't linked.

    (Probably not all the Guardian's fault though.)
    The 'end of empire' surely was hastened by the expenditure on WWI, which needn't have happened.
    I was hoping that facts might not get in the way of my diatribe :)

    I do in fact think that the politics of the left have been the main factor taking us from super-power to super-numerary. I'm probably wrong though. I've been wrong before, back in the eighties...
    Macmillan recognised the Winds of Change in 1960. Except India and Burma, almost all of the British Empire gained independence in the relatively short period between 1957 and 1964, or were set on an irreversible course in that direction. There were a few late stragglers, but under the Tories, the Empire ended, mostly fairly peacefully.
    It was Attlee who gave up India and Pakistan which lost us our super power status
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,688
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Anyone know where the Guardian money came from to set up the paper in the first place?

    Enterprise!

    Horribly misused enterprise in retrospect. We had an Empire once - hard to believe that the rise of the left and the viral-death of the Empire weren't linked.

    (Probably not all the Guardian's fault though.)
    The 'end of empire' surely was hastened by the expenditure on WWI, which needn't have happened.
    I was hoping that facts might not get in the way of my diatribe :)

    I do in fact think that the politics of the left have been the main factor taking us from super-power to super-numerary. I'm probably wrong though. I've been wrong before, back in the eighties...
    Macmillan recognised the Winds of Change in 1960. Except India and Burma, almost all of the British Empire gained independence in the relatively short period between 1957 and 1964, or were set on an irreversible course in that direction. There were a few late stragglers, but under the Tories, the Empire ended, mostly fairly peacefully.
    It was Attlee who gave up India and Pakistan which lost us our super power status
    Do you think he should have kept them? You know, sent the army in?
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    I live under the flight path into Farnborough. It’s as busy as ever:

    https://fr24.com/GLF6/24c026de
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,057
    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Anyone know where the Guardian money came from to set up the paper in the first place?

    Enterprise!

    Horribly misused enterprise in retrospect. We had an Empire once - hard to believe that the rise of the left and the viral-death of the Empire weren't linked.

    (Probably not all the Guardian's fault though.)
    The 'end of empire' surely was hastened by the expenditure on WWI, which needn't have happened.
    I was hoping that facts might not get in the way of my diatribe :)

    I do in fact think that the politics of the left have been the main factor taking us from super-power to super-numerary. I'm probably wrong though. I've been wrong before, back in the eighties...
    Macmillan recognised the Winds of Change in 1960. Except India and Burma, almost all of the British Empire gained independence in the relatively short period between 1957 and 1964, or were set on an irreversible course in that direction. There were a few late stragglers, but under the Tories, the Empire ended, mostly fairly peacefully.
    It was Attlee who gave up India and Pakistan which lost us our super power status
    Do you think he should have kept them? You know, sent the army in?
    Churchill did want to keep India and had he remained PM in 1945 it is unlikely it would have gone. Much as Boris of course will refuse to allow indyref2 for a generation.

    Ultimately however the decolonisation process meant India would likely have gone but it would have stayed part of the Empire at least another decade or two had the Tories won in 1945
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957
    tlg86 said:

    I live under the flight path into Farnborough. It’s as busy as ever:

    https://fr24.com/GLF6/24c026de

    By contrast heard my first 3 planes into Newcastle Airport this week. We are on the flightpath for Spain and France. Had no idea what it the heck it was when the first went over on Wednesday.
    How quickly we forget!
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,688
    edited June 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Anyone know where the Guardian money came from to set up the paper in the first place?

    Enterprise!

    Horribly misused enterprise in retrospect. We had an Empire once - hard to believe that the rise of the left and the viral-death of the Empire weren't linked.

    (Probably not all the Guardian's fault though.)
    The 'end of empire' surely was hastened by the expenditure on WWI, which needn't have happened.
    I was hoping that facts might not get in the way of my diatribe :)

    I do in fact think that the politics of the left have been the main factor taking us from super-power to super-numerary. I'm probably wrong though. I've been wrong before, back in the eighties...
    Macmillan recognised the Winds of Change in 1960. Except India and Burma, almost all of the British Empire gained independence in the relatively short period between 1957 and 1964, or were set on an irreversible course in that direction. There were a few late stragglers, but under the Tories, the Empire ended, mostly fairly peacefully.
    It was Attlee who gave up India and Pakistan which lost us our super power status
    Do you think he should have kept them? You know, sent the army in?
    Churchill did want to keep India and had he remained PM in 1945 it is unlikely it would have gone. Much as Boris of course will refuse to allow indyref2 for a generation.

    Ultimately however the decolonisation process meant India would likely have gone but it would have stayed part of the Empire at least another decade or two had the Tories won in 1945
    Yopu seriously think the Brits could have held onto India, after their utter incompetence had been shown in Honkers, Malaya, Singapore, and Burma?! They had lost all credibility - and to that add a famine. Regaining SWA was only done with the implicit agreement of the Indians that independence would soon follow.

    Edit: there were some very fine fighters in the British armed services - one thinks of Imphal and Kohima in particular. But the whole rationale of Empire was smashed.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    I live under the flight path into Farnborough. It’s as busy as ever:

    https://fr24.com/GLF6/24c026de

    By contrast heard my first 3 planes into Newcastle Airport this week. We are on the flightpath for Spain and France. Had no idea what it the heck it was when the first went over on Wednesday.
    How quickly we forget!
    Me too. It’s starting to get busier certainly.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    edited June 2020
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Anyone know where the Guardian money came from to set up the paper in the first place?

    Enterprise!

    Horribly misused enterprise in retrospect. We had an Empire once - hard to believe that the rise of the left and the viral-death of the Empire weren't linked.

    (Probably not all the Guardian's fault though.)
    The 'end of empire' surely was hastened by the expenditure on WWI, which needn't have happened.
    I was hoping that facts might not get in the way of my diatribe :)

    I do in fact think that the politics of the left have been the main factor taking us from super-power to super-numerary. I'm probably wrong though. I've been wrong before, back in the eighties...
    Macmillan recognised the Winds of Change in 1960. Except India and Burma, almost all of the British Empire gained independence in the relatively short period between 1957 and 1964, or were set on an irreversible course in that direction. There were a few late stragglers, but under the Tories, the Empire ended, mostly fairly peacefully.
    It was Attlee who gave up India and Pakistan which lost us our super power status
    Do you think he should have kept them? You know, sent the army in?
    Churchill did want to keep India and had he remained PM in 1945 it is unlikely it would have gone. Much as Boris of course will refuse to allow indyref2 for a generation.

    Ultimately however the decolonisation process meant India would likely have gone but it would have stayed part of the Empire at least another decade or two had the Tories won in 1945
    Yopu seriously think the Brits could have held onto India, after their utter incompetence had been shown in Honkers, Malaya, Singapore, and Burma?! They had lost all credibility - and to that add a famine. Regaining SWA was only done with the implicit agreement of the Indians that independence would soon follow.

    Edit: there were some very fine fighters in the British armed services - one thinks of Imphal and Kohima in particular. But the whole rationale of Empire was smashed.
    Of course, India remained British throughout WW2 and with India Britain remained one of the 3 global superpowers alongside the USA and USSR
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957
    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    80 seat majority and been in power for 10 years and 28 of the last 41.
    Yet the country is going to the dogs under the jackboot heel of the opposition.
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    The left has never forgiven Orwell for sussing them out so unanswerably in 'The Lion and the Unicorn' back in 1941:

    'England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during “God save the King” than of stealing from a poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always anti-British. It is questionable how much effect this had, but it certainly had some. If the English people suffered for several years a real weakening of morale, so that the Fascist nations judged that they were ‘decadent’ and that it was safe to plunge into war, the intellectual sabotage from the Left was partly responsible.'
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    80 seat majority and been in power for 10 years and 28 of the last 41.
    Yet the country is going to the dogs under the jackboot heel of the opposition.
    The Tories are the most popular party and control the government, the Left controls the culture, which they wield like a rapier to set the permitted bounds of speech and debate. This really isn't difficult to understand.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,979
    Ben Bradley MP strikes me as an absolute helmet.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    The left has never forgiven Orwell for sussing them out so unanswerably in 'The Lion and the Unicorn' back in 1941:

    'England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during “God save the King” than of stealing from a poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always anti-British. It is questionable how much effect this had, but it certainly had some. If the English people suffered for several years a real weakening of morale, so that the Fascist nations judged that they were ‘decadent’ and that it was safe to plunge into war, the intellectual sabotage from the Left was partly responsible.'
    Spot on. Orwell was a noted Tory Party cheerleader and never failed to put in a good word for them.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,921
    edited June 2020
    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    Haha great tactic -find an author admired by those who disagree with you politically, then announce that the views of anyone who references said author are to be instantly discounted

    Positively Orwellian!
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    I live under the flight path into Farnborough. It’s as busy as ever:

    https://fr24.com/GLF6/24c026de

    By contrast heard my first 3 planes into Newcastle Airport this week. We are on the flightpath for Spain and France. Had no idea what it the heck it was when the first went over on Wednesday.
    How quickly we forget!
    My friend lives next to the army ranges and he says it was strange when they stopped exercises in March and April. They are very much making up for it now!
  • Options
    NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    edited June 2020
    For fictional insight into our present situation I think that "The Day of the Locust" ( Nathanael West, 1939) has much to recommend it.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,526
    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    80 seat majority and been in power for 10 years and 28 of the last 41.
    Yet the country is going to the dogs under the jackboot heel of the opposition.
    Or maybe he has discovered that we do not live in an idealised version of 5th century Athens and that power is exercised outside and beyond the ballot box and the House of Commons and that just as within that hallowed place not everyone doing it is very agreeable.
  • Options
    pm215pm215 Posts: 936
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting point about the apparent low infectivity of children. Do we have any data which refutes it ?

    https://twitter.com/c_drosten/status/1274714443008573442

    Maybe I'm misreading it, but that tweet doesn't seem to be saying children have lower infectivity -- it just says they're more likely to be asymptomatic. So a child could catch covid at school, but because asymptomatic they don't get identified as the household's "index case". They pass it to a parent, who does get noticeably sick, and so gets tested. Then contact tracing looks at who's been in contact with the parent, which is a group that obviously includes the child. Child gets tested, but by this point their immune system has mostly cleared up their asymptomatic infection and they show as having a low viral load. If they'd been tested the week before their parent caught it rather than the week after the results would likely have been higher. (Haven't read the stuff the tweet is a response to.)
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957
    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    The left has never forgiven Orwell for sussing them out so unanswerably in 'The Lion and the Unicorn' back in 1941:

    'England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during “God save the King” than of stealing from a poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always anti-British. It is questionable how much effect this had, but it certainly had some. If the English people suffered for several years a real weakening of morale, so that the Fascist nations judged that they were ‘decadent’ and that it was safe to plunge into war, the intellectual sabotage from the Left was partly responsible.'
    Spot on. Orwell was a noted Tory Party cheerleader and never failed to put in a good word for them.
    Edit: Not. In case anyone finds that "difficult to understand".
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    Not sure if this is true, but Sky certainly didn't want to show it:

    https://twitter.com/JS_Spotting/status/1274765414611013632
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    80 seat majority and been in power for 10 years and 28 of the last 41.
    Yet the country is going to the dogs under the jackboot heel of the opposition.
    Yes - it's quite a trick to pull off if they manage it.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    The left has never forgiven Orwell for sussing them out so unanswerably in 'The Lion and the Unicorn' back in 1941:

    'England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during “God save the King” than of stealing from a poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always anti-British. It is questionable how much effect this had, but it certainly had some. If the English people suffered for several years a real weakening of morale, so that the Fascist nations judged that they were ‘decadent’ and that it was safe to plunge into war, the intellectual sabotage from the Left was partly responsible.'
    Spot on. Orwell was a noted Tory Party cheerleader and never failed to put in a good word for them.
    Edit: Not. In case anyone finds that "difficult to understand".
    Have confidence in your sarcasm!

    Highest form of wit when done right.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    pm215 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting point about the apparent low infectivity of children. Do we have any data which refutes it ?

    https://twitter.com/c_drosten/status/1274714443008573442

    Maybe I'm misreading it, but that tweet doesn't seem to be saying children have lower infectivity -- it just says they're more likely to be asymptomatic. So a child could catch covid at school, but because asymptomatic they don't get identified as the household's "index case". They pass it to a parent, who does get noticeably sick, and so gets tested. Then contact tracing looks at who's been in contact with the parent, which is a group that obviously includes the child. Child gets tested, but by this point their immune system has mostly cleared up their asymptomatic infection and they show as having a low viral load. If they'd been tested the week before their parent caught it rather than the week after the results would likely have been higher. (Haven't read the stuff the tweet is a response to.)
    That's my reading too, and that because kids are largely asymptomatic, they are being overlooked as the index case, with further implications that they role in the spread is being underestimated.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    For fictional insight into our present situation I think that "The Day of the Locust" ( Nathanael West, 1939) has much to recommend it.

    Catch 22 for me.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    The left has never forgiven Orwell for sussing them out so unanswerably in 'The Lion and the Unicorn' back in 1941:

    'England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during “God save the King” than of stealing from a poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always anti-British. It is questionable how much effect this had, but it certainly had some. If the English people suffered for several years a real weakening of morale, so that the Fascist nations judged that they were ‘decadent’ and that it was safe to plunge into war, the intellectual sabotage from the Left was partly responsible.'
    Spot on. Orwell was a noted Tory Party cheerleader and never failed to put in a good word for them.
    Edit: Not. In case anyone finds that "difficult to understand".
    Doesn't that make his observation about the Left that much more powerful?
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    Haha great tactic -find an author admired by those who disagree with you politically, then announce that the views of anyone who references said author are to be instantly discounted

    Positively Orwellian!
    I was going to make exactly the same point. We can counter their duplicitousness
    by using the epithet 'Zamyatinian', which is not inappropriate since Zamyatin was a classic pioneer in the dystopian genre.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    Haha great tactic -find an author admired by those who disagree with you politically, then announce that the views of anyone who references said author are to be instantly discounted

    Positively Orwellian!
    You what? He's a hero of the left. "Road". "Down and Out". All the best stuff.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,057
    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    The left has never forgiven Orwell for sussing them out so unanswerably in 'The Lion and the Unicorn' back in 1941:

    'England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during “God save the King” than of stealing from a poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always anti-British. It is questionable how much effect this had, but it certainly had some. If the English people suffered for several years a real weakening of morale, so that the Fascist nations judged that they were ‘decadent’ and that it was safe to plunge into war, the intellectual sabotage from the Left was partly responsible.'
    Spot on. Orwell was a noted Tory Party cheerleader and never failed to put in a good word for them.
    Would be fascinating to hear ol' George's opinion on the infiltration of the governing party by members of the Revolutionary Communist Party and contributors to Living Marxism.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    The left has never forgiven Orwell for sussing them out so unanswerably in 'The Lion and the Unicorn' back in 1941:

    'England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during “God save the King” than of stealing from a poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always anti-British. It is questionable how much effect this had, but it certainly had some. If the English people suffered for several years a real weakening of morale, so that the Fascist nations judged that they were ‘decadent’ and that it was safe to plunge into war, the intellectual sabotage from the Left was partly responsible.'
    You need to be changing your handle. After yesterday's "tee shirt" exchange it is clear you are less a Con partisan than a hard right ideologue. Which is fine - but I think we do still have a Trade Descriptions Act.
  • Options
    NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    The discussion of Orwell tonight illustrates the limitations of talking about "the Left" and "the Right".
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,347
    tlg86 said:

    Not sure if this is true, but Sky certainly didn't want to show it:

    https://twitter.com/JS_Spotting/status/1274765414611013632

    Quite right too. BA can F Off... I will not use them anytime soon, in my experience their service and customer care is nothing short of atrocious.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,906
    How many weeks behind Germany are we?

    https://twitter.com/fionanicmee/status/1274761865474772993
  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited June 2020
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    The left has never forgiven Orwell for sussing them out so unanswerably in 'The Lion and the Unicorn' back in 1941:

    'England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during “God save the King” than of stealing from a poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always anti-British. It is questionable how much effect this had, but it certainly had some. If the English people suffered for several years a real weakening of morale, so that the Fascist nations judged that they were ‘decadent’ and that it was safe to plunge into war, the intellectual sabotage from the Left was partly responsible.'
    You need to be changing your handle. After yesterday's "tee shirt" exchange it is clear you are less a Con partisan than a hard right ideologue. Which is fine - but I think we do still have a Trade Descriptions Act.
    Do bugger off. Just because I don't absolve the communists of their 100 million+ fatalities as easily as you do doesn't make me 'hard' anything. It does make you hard of thinking, however.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,850
    HYUFD said:


    Of course, India remained British throughout WW2 and with India Britain remained one of the 3 global superpowers alongside the USA and USSR

    Nice bit of Liberal Unionist hyperbole there, my friend.

    Britain's role in the "allied alliance" changed with time and by Yalta let alone Potsdam it was clear we were the junior partner.

    We were a superpower once we had the Bomb but Suez cruelly exposed our military, diplomatic and political limitations. It was from that humiliation that the Conservatives under Harold Macmillan realised our future lay not with Empire but with Europe and began our (roughly) 60-year political relationship with Europe which was broken by the referendum and has now ended.

    It was Conservatives who took is into Europe (without a referendum) and Conservatives who took us out of Europe (via a referendum).

    The new globalist mentality is the modern re-incarnation of Liberal Unionism of which of course Churchill was an adherent.

  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    The left has never forgiven Orwell for sussing them out so unanswerably in 'The Lion and the Unicorn' back in 1941:

    'England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during “God save the King” than of stealing from a poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always anti-British. It is questionable how much effect this had, but it certainly had some. If the English people suffered for several years a real weakening of morale, so that the Fascist nations judged that they were ‘decadent’ and that it was safe to plunge into war, the intellectual sabotage from the Left was partly responsible.'
    You need to be changing your handle. After yesterday's "tee shirt" exchange it is clear you are less a Con partisan than a hard right ideologue. Which is fine - but I think we do still have a Trade Descriptions Act.
    Do bugger off. Just because I don't absolve the communists of their 100 million+ fatalities as easily as you do doesn't make me 'hard' anything. It does make you hard of thinking, however.
    I see you.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Of course, India remained British throughout WW2 and with India Britain remained one of the 3 global superpowers alongside the USA and USSR

    Nice bit of Liberal Unionist hyperbole there, my friend.

    Britain's role in the "allied alliance" changed with time and by Yalta let alone Potsdam it was clear we were the junior partner.

    We were a superpower once we had the Bomb but Suez cruelly exposed our military, diplomatic and political limitations. It was from that humiliation that the Conservatives under Harold Macmillan realised our future lay not with Empire but with Europe and began our (roughly) 60-year political relationship with Europe which was broken by the referendum and has now ended.

    It was Conservatives who took is into Europe (without a referendum) and Conservatives who took us out of Europe (via a referendum).

    The new globalist mentality is the modern re-incarnation of Liberal Unionism of which of course Churchill was an adherent.

    Suez only happened after Indian independence so the original point remains.

    We joined the Common Market in 1973 as confirmed by 67% of British voters in the 1975 referendum, we left the EU which 52% of British voters voted to Leave in 2016.

    Had it stayed the Common Market we would never have voted to Leave it
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,604
    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    I live under the flight path into Farnborough. It’s as busy as ever:

    https://fr24.com/GLF6/24c026de

    By contrast heard my first 3 planes into Newcastle Airport this week. We are on the flightpath for Spain and France. Had no idea what it the heck it was when the first went over on Wednesday.
    How quickly we forget!
    Today saw the first passenger flight from LBA for 3 months. It was featured on the local news.

    The lack of aircraft noise has been lovely.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,332
    tlg86 said:

    Not sure if this is true, but Sky certainly didn't want to show it:

    https://twitter.com/JS_Spotting/status/1274765414611013632

    There's a poster down the road from where I live saying that - completely cryptic to me as it doesn't explain.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    The left has never forgiven Orwell for sussing them out so unanswerably in 'The Lion and the Unicorn' back in 1941:

    'England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during “God save the King” than of stealing from a poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always anti-British. It is questionable how much effect this had, but it certainly had some. If the English people suffered for several years a real weakening of morale, so that the Fascist nations judged that they were ‘decadent’ and that it was safe to plunge into war, the intellectual sabotage from the Left was partly responsible.'
    Spot on. Orwell was a noted Tory Party cheerleader and never failed to put in a good word for them.
    Edit: Not. In case anyone finds that "difficult to understand".
    Doesn't that make his observation about the Left that much more powerful?
    Yes. The pacifism of the ex soldier.

    But his essence remains Left and there is not a shred of Right.
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    eadric said:

    OK a final bit of culture warring/reasoned analysis

    The media are partly culpable for the mess we are in. They are biased and selective. I've no doubt that in the past they were biased to the right, in the main (which is wrong), I've no doubt that they are now biased towards the BLM/left perspective

    Here's a provable example

    NPR in America tweets this headline.

    https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1274713491153326081?s=20

    Take a quick glance and what do you see? Some awful far right driver about to run over innocent protesters: the headline certainly intends you to see that and pushes you in that direction

    But look at what actually happened. There is video.

    The female driver stopped for the demo, protesters surrounded her, then they began arguing, they reached in and started beating her, grabbed her hair, and then they pulled a gun. Unsurprisingly, the terrified woman drove off in fear of her life, at speed


    https://twitter.com/Mrtdogg/status/1273842748517466115?s=20

    There is a fuller account here. The protesters admitted the crime


    https://amp-courier--journal-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.courier-journal.com/amp/3216822001?usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA=&amp_js_v=0.1#aoh=15927505779434&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2020/06/18/2-charged-louisville-altercation-driver-who-hit-protester/3216822001/


    "Anderson, 21, was identified by video and later arrested later Wednesday morning, according to the report. He admitted to the incident in an interview after waving his Miranda rights and was charged with first-degree rioting, first-degree wanton endangerment, tampering with physical evidence, third-degree criminal mischief, second-degree disorderly conduct and obstructing a highway.

    According to the report, after the incident with the driver, Louisville police officers observed Anderson handing off his handgun to Brioanna Richards, who then hid the weapon in a vehicle to "in an attempt to conceal evidence of the crime." Police then located the vehicle, consent searched it and confiscated the handgun"


    The irony of ironies is that the poor driver was an African American woman

    This is deeply irresponsible journalism by NPR: it serves only to provoke both sides: sympathisers with BLM who will read the incendiary and mendacious headline (far right drivers hitting protesters!!) followed by skeptics who will dig a bit deeper and then be outraged by the pro-BLM media lies.

    Who does this actually serve?

    It’s interesting to see the press and media reporting of the protests locally. The BLM protests are reported as ‘largely peaceful’ and the only trouble and problems reported coming from the counter protesters who are defined as the far right.

    Having seen some of what went on this is not accurate. On both sides there were a handful of people who were seeking violent confrontation. It was not a case of one side turning up to attack another.

    Are people,stupid. Do they not have eyes ? They will know the media is lying about stuff to them as it always has.
    The anti-racist protests were largely peaceful in a way that the far right ones were not - i.e. in the former it was a small proportion who were looking for trouble but in the latter it was most of them (or certainly a much higher %).

    There is not an equivalence. Anti-racist demonstrators are by and large better people than far right racists.

    If you doubt this, simply consider who likes to maintain otherwise - Donald Trump.
    I can only comment on the evidence of my own eyes compared to how it’s been reported in the local press and media.

    Of course the BLM protesters are generally better than the far right. However there is an element within it which is simply seeking a fight.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Anyone know where the Guardian money came from to set up the paper in the first place?

    Enterprise!

    Horribly misused enterprise in retrospect. We had an Empire once - hard to believe that the rise of the left and the viral-death of the Empire weren't linked.

    (Probably not all the Guardian's fault though.)
    The 'end of empire' surely was hastened by the expenditure on WWI, which needn't have happened.
    I was hoping that facts might not get in the way of my diatribe :)

    I do in fact think that the politics of the left have been the main factor taking us from super-power to super-numerary. I'm probably wrong though. I've been wrong before, back in the eighties...
    Macmillan recognised the Winds of Change in 1960. Except India and Burma, almost all of the British Empire gained independence in the relatively short period between 1957 and 1964, or were set on an irreversible course in that direction. There were a few late stragglers, but under the Tories, the Empire ended, mostly fairly peacefully.
    It was Attlee who gave up India and Pakistan which lost us our super power status
    Do you think he should have kept them? You know, sent the army in?
    Churchill did want to keep India and had he remained PM in 1945 it is unlikely it would have gone. Much as Boris of course will refuse to allow indyref2 for a generation.

    Ultimately however the decolonisation process meant India would likely have gone but it would have stayed part of the Empire at least another decade or two had the Tories won in 1945
    Did you mean to say that out loud, about indyref2?
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    The left has never forgiven Orwell for sussing them out so unanswerably in 'The Lion and the Unicorn' back in 1941:

    'England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during “God save the King” than of stealing from a poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always anti-British. It is questionable how much effect this had, but it certainly had some. If the English people suffered for several years a real weakening of morale, so that the Fascist nations judged that they were ‘decadent’ and that it was safe to plunge into war, the intellectual sabotage from the Left was partly responsible.'
    Spot on. Orwell was a noted Tory Party cheerleader and never failed to put in a good word for them.
    Would be fascinating to hear ol' George's opinion on the infiltration of the governing party by members of the Revolutionary Communist Party and contributors to Living Marxism.
    You missed out IRA supporting
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,105

    On today’s much-discussed subject of Ash Sarkar, I have to say I like her. Yes, many of her opinions are barking, but on a personal level she seems a lot of fun.

    I reckon of all the people who are mostly famous for being on Twitter she would be the best for a night out.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,105
    kinabalu said:

    For fictional insight into our present situation I think that "The Day of the Locust" ( Nathanael West, 1939) has much to recommend it.

    Catch 22 for me.
    That was my favourite book when I was 17.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,105
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    eristdoof said:

    ydoethur said:

    eadric said:

    kinabalu said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    The Culture Wars continue on Twitter.

    Owen Jones is trying to cancel some Tory at Oxford Uni

    twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1274698217444294656?s=20


    What a spectacle humanity is making of itself. I wish we could cancel the internet

    To be fair, if that Tory bloke did say that about Ash Sarkar then he’s a bellend of the highest order.
    He didn't make the death threat, but he did appear to "condone it" by getting involved in the conversation, so he was a damn fool: agreed.

    However I loathe this cancel culture. I loathe the relish of the cancellers, who love to tear people down. Look at this tweet from the same Owen Jones. Lusting for blood. Yuk.

    twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1274695283658629120?s=20
    I mean, Owen Jones is also a bellend of the highest order.
    The story here is loathsome goon encourages death threats against confident young left wing woman - since nothing gets the goat of these people more than uppity dusky maidens with the wrong politics who don't know their place - and this will remain the story despite the usual tediously predictable efforts of racist, hard right culture warriors to turn it into an "Owen Jones is a wanker" narrative.

    Do not collaborate, I beseech you.
    Death threats are contemptible, but Ash Sarkar is no saint
    As whataboutery goes, that is actually disgusting.

    Whatever she is, she does not deserve death threats.

    And even if for some obscure reason she did, then it is hard to imagine why she should receive them for posting a photo of herself eating a lollipop.

    I mean, come on.
    In this brave new world, every image can be construed as fascist or stalinist or racist or whatever.
    4chan haves turned the OK symbol into a racist thing. I am puzzled as to where this leaves scuba divers - will they have to change the official OK sign?
    I wondered this to. The problem is that the "Thumbs up" sign has another meaning when you are under water, saying "I want to head back up to the surface"
    Exactly.

    I believe the OK = racist thing started as a meme joke. It wasn't true. Then it got adopted by some actual racists. And opponents of racists.

    Bit like the deep fried mars bars thing. In Wiltshire, they heard the story. And the local chip shop started deep frying mars bars....
    So that must be where the English tourists come from that demand DFMBs in the central Edinburgh chippies, to go with their exotic haggis pudden and chips.
    Happened in quite a lot of places, I understand. I was actually in Wiltshire when that happened at the local chip shop.
    I still find it hard to believe there is anyone stupid enough to want a DFMB, haggis and chips I can just about manage.
    Never had a DFMB but battered pizza is amazing. At least the first half is. By the end you are consumed by self loathing and you start to fall into a carb-induced coma.
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    eristdoof said:

    ydoethur said:

    eadric said:

    kinabalu said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    The Culture Wars continue on Twitter.

    Owen Jones is trying to cancel some Tory at Oxford Uni

    twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1274698217444294656?s=20


    What a spectacle humanity is making of itself. I wish we could cancel the internet

    To be fair, if that Tory bloke did say that about Ash Sarkar then he’s a bellend of the highest order.
    He didn't make the death threat, but he did appear to "condone it" by getting involved in the conversation, so he was a damn fool: agreed.

    However I loathe this cancel culture. I loathe the relish of the cancellers, who love to tear people down. Look at this tweet from the same Owen Jones. Lusting for blood. Yuk.

    twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1274695283658629120?s=20
    I mean, Owen Jones is also a bellend of the highest order.
    The story here is loathsome goon encourages death threats against confident young left wing woman - since nothing gets the goat of these people more than uppity dusky maidens with the wrong politics who don't know their place - and this will remain the story despite the usual tediously predictable efforts of racist, hard right culture warriors to turn it into an "Owen Jones is a wanker" narrative.

    Do not collaborate, I beseech you.
    Death threats are contemptible, but Ash Sarkar is no saint
    As whataboutery goes, that is actually disgusting.

    Whatever she is, she does not deserve death threats.

    And even if for some obscure reason she did, then it is hard to imagine why she should receive them for posting a photo of herself eating a lollipop.

    I mean, come on.
    In this brave new world, every image can be construed as fascist or stalinist or racist or whatever.
    4chan haves turned the OK symbol into a racist thing. I am puzzled as to where this leaves scuba divers - will they have to change the official OK sign?
    I wondered this to. The problem is that the "Thumbs up" sign has another meaning when you are under water, saying "I want to head back up to the surface"
    Exactly.

    I believe the OK = racist thing started as a meme joke. It wasn't true. Then it got adopted by some actual racists. And opponents of racists.

    Bit like the deep fried mars bars thing. In Wiltshire, they heard the story. And the local chip shop started deep frying mars bars....
    So that must be where the English tourists come from that demand DFMBs in the central Edinburgh chippies, to go with their exotic haggis pudden and chips.
    Happened in quite a lot of places, I understand. I was actually in Wiltshire when that happened at the local chip shop.
    I still find it hard to believe there is anyone stupid enough to want a DFMB, haggis and chips I can just about manage.
    I always assumed a DFMB was a sort of urban legend. Admittedly I haven't been to Scotland for several years now and the last two occasions were for weddings where one wouldn't expect that sort of thing.

    Whisky yes; in considerable quantity, certainly at the first one.

    However I didn't see it advertised in the chippy we walked past from my B&B to the second.

    Always try and buy a haggis a couple of days before Burns Night, although that's been muted lately as it clashes with Dydd Santes Dwynwen and we can't really enjoy Valentines Night nowadays, as our daughter died on Feb 14th.
    I have never seen any place that sells it either and would not buy anything from it if they did.
    The chippies in central Edinburgh, e.g in Cowgatehead/Grassmarket, certainly sell DFMBs - but they would catch the pished tourist yoof with the munchies, esp. at Arts Festival time. You know, the ones who come to the city of Hume and Hutton to eat DFMBs.

    On battered pizza, I recall the conference I organised in Edinburgh once. Several of the delegates were Italian PhD students. They had gone into one of the chippies above and one of them had spotted a pizza in the warmer cabinet and pointed at it. He was dfumbfounded when the chap whipped it out, folded it in half, dipped it in batter, [edit] deep-fried it and gave it to him with his chips ...

    But I bet he fucking loved it.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,205
    Coronavirus Live Updates: 12 States Hit Daily Records and the White House Says It’s Preparing for a Possible Fall Wave

    Dr. Michael Osterholm, a prominent U.S. epidemiologist, said, “I don’t think we’re going to see one, two and three waves — I think we’re just going to see one very, very difficult forest fire of cases.”

    NYTimes
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    On today’s much-discussed subject of Ash Sarkar, I have to say I like her. Yes, many of her opinions are barking, but on a personal level she seems a lot of fun.

    I reckon of all the people who are mostly famous for being on Twitter she would be the best for a night out.
    Her twitter bio once stated she ‘f*cks like a champion’. Now deleted. I wonder if that’s what attracts so many men of a certain age !
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,105
    kinabalu said:

    Lovely!

    Now here the disgraceful comment about Ash Sakar which has landed that bozo in trouble is totally 100% appropriate.

    You reap what you sew.
    Cough.
    [Hates self for obsessive pedantry]
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Scott_xP said:
    it was 1.09 on Friday - we also have outbreaks centred around meat processing plants
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    kinabalu said:

    eadric said:

    OK a final bit of culture warring/reasoned analysis

    The media are partly culpable for the mess we are in. They are biased and selective. I've no doubt that in the past they were biased to the right, in the main (which is wrong), I've no doubt that they are now biased towards the BLM/left perspective

    Here's a provable example

    NPR in America tweets this headline.

    https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1274713491153326081?s=20

    Take a quick glance and what do you see? Some awful far right driver about to run over innocent protesters: the headline certainly intends you to see that and pushes you in that direction

    But look at what actually happened. There is video.

    The female driver stopped for the demo, protesters surrounded her, then they began arguing, they reached in and started beating her, grabbed her hair, and then they pulled a gun. Unsurprisingly, the terrified woman drove off in fear of her life, at speed


    https://twitter.com/Mrtdogg/status/1273842748517466115?s=20

    There is a fuller account here. The protesters admitted the crime


    https://amp-courier--journal-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.courier-journal.com/amp/3216822001?usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA=&amp_js_v=0.1#aoh=15927505779434&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2020/06/18/2-charged-louisville-altercation-driver-who-hit-protester/3216822001/


    "Anderson, 21, was identified by video and later arrested later Wednesday morning, according to the report. He admitted to the incident in an interview after waving his Miranda rights and was charged with first-degree rioting, first-degree wanton endangerment, tampering with physical evidence, third-degree criminal mischief, second-degree disorderly conduct and obstructing a highway.

    According to the report, after the incident with the driver, Louisville police officers observed Anderson handing off his handgun to Brioanna Richards, who then hid the weapon in a vehicle to "in an attempt to conceal evidence of the crime." Police then located the vehicle, consent searched it and confiscated the handgun"


    The irony of ironies is that the poor driver was an African American woman

    This is deeply irresponsible journalism by NPR: it serves only to provoke both sides: sympathisers with BLM who will read the incendiary and mendacious headline (far right drivers hitting protesters!!) followed by skeptics who will dig a bit deeper and then be outraged by the pro-BLM media lies.

    Who does this actually serve?

    It’s interesting to see the press and media reporting of the protests locally. The BLM protests are reported as ‘largely peaceful’ and the only trouble and problems reported coming from the counter protesters who are defined as the far right.

    Having seen some of what went on this is not accurate. On both sides there were a handful of people who were seeking violent confrontation. It was not a case of one side turning up to attack another.

    Are people,stupid. Do they not have eyes ? They will know the media is lying about stuff to them as it always has.
    The anti-racist protests were largely peaceful in a way that the far right ones were not - i.e. in the former it was a small proportion who were looking for trouble but in the latter it was most of them (or certainly a much higher %).

    There is not an equivalence. Anti-racist demonstrators are by and large better people than far right racists.

    If you doubt this, simply consider who likes to maintain otherwise - Donald Trump.
    I can only comment on the evidence of my own eyes compared to how it’s been reported in the local press and media.

    Of course the BLM protesters are generally better than the far right. However there is an element within it which is simply seeking a fight.
    Did you go on the demos then?

    I agree with your last para.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,604
    Quiz question: Which parliamentary constituency has the smallest geographic area.

    I got the biggest correct but don't know this one.

    (No cheating!)
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,269
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Anyone know where the Guardian money came from to set up the paper in the first place?

    Enterprise!

    Horribly misused enterprise in retrospect. We had an Empire once - hard to believe that the rise of the left and the viral-death of the Empire weren't linked.

    (Probably not all the Guardian's fault though.)
    The 'end of empire' surely was hastened by the expenditure on WWI, which needn't have happened.
    I was hoping that facts might not get in the way of my diatribe :)

    I do in fact think that the politics of the left have been the main factor taking us from super-power to super-numerary. I'm probably wrong though. I've been wrong before, back in the eighties...
    Macmillan recognised the Winds of Change in 1960. Except India and Burma, almost all of the British Empire gained independence in the relatively short period between 1957 and 1964, or were set on an irreversible course in that direction. There were a few late stragglers, but under the Tories, the Empire ended, mostly fairly peacefully.
    It was Attlee who gave up India and Pakistan which lost us our super power status
    Do you think he should have kept them? You know, sent the army in?
    Churchill did want to keep India and had he remained PM in 1945 it is unlikely it would have gone. Much as Boris of course will refuse to allow indyref2 for a generation.

    Ultimately however the decolonisation process meant India would likely have gone but it would have stayed part of the Empire at least another decade or two had the Tories won in 1945
    Yopu seriously think the Brits could have held onto India, after their utter incompetence had been shown in Honkers, Malaya, Singapore, and Burma?! They had lost all credibility - and to that add a famine. Regaining SWA was only done with the implicit agreement of the Indians that independence would soon follow.

    Edit: there were some very fine fighters in the British armed services - one thinks of Imphal and Kohima in particular. But the whole rationale of Empire was smashed.
    Of course, India remained British throughout WW2 and with India Britain remained one of the 3 global superpowers alongside the USA and USSR
    Until 1947 :lol:
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,105

    On today’s much-discussed subject of Ash Sarkar, I have to say I like her. Yes, many of her opinions are barking, but on a personal level she seems a lot of fun.

    I reckon of all the people who are mostly famous for being on Twitter she would be the best for a night out.
    Her twitter bio once stated she ‘f*cks like a champion’. Now deleted. I wonder if that’s what attracts so many men of a certain age !
    Ha that's not what I meant. Thanks, I feel like a dirty old man now.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    edited June 2020

    kinabalu said:

    Lovely!

    Now here the disgraceful comment about Ash Sakar which has landed that bozo in trouble is totally 100% appropriate.

    You reap what you sew.
    Cough.
    [Hates self for obsessive pedantry]
    Already fessed up - it was a bad one and I've been typing it all day!
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    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    The left has never forgiven Orwell for sussing them out so unanswerably in 'The Lion and the Unicorn' back in 1941:

    'England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during “God save the King” than of stealing from a poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always anti-British. It is questionable how much effect this had, but it certainly had some. If the English people suffered for several years a real weakening of morale, so that the Fascist nations judged that they were ‘decadent’ and that it was safe to plunge into war, the intellectual sabotage from the Left was partly responsible.'
    You need to be changing your handle. After yesterday's "tee shirt" exchange it is clear you are less a Con partisan than a hard right ideologue. Which is fine - but I think we do still have a Trade Descriptions Act.
    Do bugger off. Just because I don't absolve the communists of their 100 million+ fatalities as easily as you do doesn't make me 'hard' anything. It does make you hard of thinking, however.
    I see you.
    You go ahead and do that - I'm a straight down the line Tory voter (plus the Lib Dems once, tactically!), so knock yourself out. Then again you do think that proudly describing yourself as a 'Hard Left Social Democrat' is somehow admirable, so your feel for political labels may be a little off.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Quiz question: Which parliamentary constituency has the smallest geographic area.

    I got the biggest correct but don't know this one.

    (No cheating!)

    Manchester Central - guess
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,105

    Quiz question: Which parliamentary constituency has the smallest geographic area.

    I got the biggest correct but don't know this one.

    (No cheating!)

    One of the Islington seats?
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    kinabalu said:

    For fictional insight into our present situation I think that "The Day of the Locust" ( Nathanael West, 1939) has much to recommend it.

    Catch 22 for me.
    That was my favourite book when I was 17.
    15 in my case. So, you know ...
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,162

    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    80 seat majority and been in power for 10 years and 28 of the last 41.
    Yet the country is going to the dogs under the jackboot heel of the opposition.
    The Tories are the most popular party and control the government, the Left controls the culture, which they wield like a rapier to set the permitted bounds of speech and debate. This really isn't difficult to understand.
    Your first statement is incontrovertible...for the moment. The culture claim is straight out of the Trump playbook. It is also wrong.

    How do you explain the BBC editing Boris gaffes before the last election to make him look better. The Cenotaph, for example. Why do so many former journalists from the BBC etc. become Conservative candidates. Why are former Conservative MPs presenting TV shows (Portillo) and editing newspapers (Osborn). How many left wing daily newspapers do we have presently? I could go on but I can't be arsed.
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    Scott_xP said:
    More cut n paste nonsense with no context or any comment of any worth.

    This site really does need an ignore function.

    Germany reported 130 new cases today and 1 death. This is low as it is the weekend And there are the same lag issues that we have but the long term trend is clear. The new cases reported are still very low. There is still time to act to get it down.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    eadric said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It's bollocks. Germany has a very small number of cases so the R0 is largely irrelevant at the moment. It's like saying a village has a 100% annual population growth rate when its single inhabitant gets married

    Nicola Sturgeon has retweeted this silliness. An uncharacteristic error
    The Worldometer figures for Germany suggests that there has been a bit up an uptick in cases recently.
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,105
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    For fictional insight into our present situation I think that "The Day of the Locust" ( Nathanael West, 1939) has much to recommend it.

    Catch 22 for me.
    That was my favourite book when I was 17.
    15 in my case. So, you know ...
    Have you tried reading it again when you're older? Like a lot of books I liked as s teenager (eg On the Road) it didn't have the same magic.
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    tlg86 said:

    eadric said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It's bollocks. Germany has a very small number of cases so the R0 is largely irrelevant at the moment. It's like saying a village has a 100% annual population growth rate when its single inhabitant gets married

    Nicola Sturgeon has retweeted this silliness. An uncharacteristic error
    The Worldometer figures for Germany suggests that there has been a bit up an uptick in cases recently.
    It’s tiny though

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,892
    Jonathan said:
    One of the greatest rock songs of all time, and desparately crying out for someone to do a modern remake.
    It was written by Joel in 1989 when he was 40, summarising the world events of his life to that point.
    Also, one of the best Wikipedia pages for any song, with references to each event referenced in the lyrics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Didn't_Start_the_Fire
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,269
    eadric said:

    On today’s much-discussed subject of Ash Sarkar, I have to say I like her. Yes, many of her opinions are barking, but on a personal level she seems a lot of fun.

    I reckon of all the people who are mostly famous for being on Twitter she would be the best for a night out.
    Her twitter bio once stated she ‘f*cks like a champion’. Now deleted. I wonder if that’s what attracts so many men of a certain age !
    She is unquestionably hot.
    Should've gone to Specsavers! :lol:
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,105
    eadric said:

    On today’s much-discussed subject of Ash Sarkar, I have to say I like her. Yes, many of her opinions are barking, but on a personal level she seems a lot of fun.

    I reckon of all the people who are mostly famous for being on Twitter she would be the best for a night out.
    Her twitter bio once stated she ‘f*cks like a champion’. Now deleted. I wonder if that’s what attracts so many men of a certain age !
    She is unquestionably hot.

    There is always something satisfying about bedding a stridently left wing girl. They often turn out to be the most submissive.
    I love this site. You won't get stuff like this anywhere else.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    @BluestBlue

    Sorry - just realised that "I see you" of mine was not nice and could be misinterpreted.

    Didn't mean it that way.

    I just mean that I SEE you. I get you better now. All good.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189

    tlg86 said:

    eadric said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It's bollocks. Germany has a very small number of cases so the R0 is largely irrelevant at the moment. It's like saying a village has a 100% annual population growth rate when its single inhabitant gets married

    Nicola Sturgeon has retweeted this silliness. An uncharacteristic error
    The Worldometer figures for Germany suggests that there has been a bit up an uptick in cases recently.
    It’s tiny though

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/
    What's the situation in Germany at the moment? I know that fans aren't going to football games. Are workers commuting to offices yet?
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,269

    Quiz question: Which parliamentary constituency has the smallest geographic area.

    I got the biggest correct but don't know this one.

    (No cheating!)

    Cities of London & Westminster?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,911
    eadric said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It's bollocks. Germany has a very small number of cases so the R0 is largely irrelevant at the moment. It's like saying a village has a 100% annual population growth rate when its single inhabitant gets married

    Nicola Sturgeon has retweeted this silliness. An uncharacteristic error
    Still shows it is far from over and unlike Germany we have shit trace and contact system in place. When it spikes here they will be gobsmacked and have no clue what to do.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    eadric said:

    Quiz question: Which parliamentary constituency has the smallest geographic area.

    I got the biggest correct but don't know this one.

    (No cheating!)

    One of the Islington seats?
    Oooh, good

    City of London and W?
    I'd have thought that seat is quite big given it has a lot of workplaces in it.
  • Options
    I'm interested in where the Times/ST is going, they seem to have become very anti-Johnson and wonder if they will attempt to shack up with Labour going forward
  • Options

    Quiz question: Which parliamentary constituency has the smallest geographic area.

    I got the biggest correct but don't know this one.

    (No cheating!)

    Manchester Central - guess

    Kensington and Chelsea.
  • Options

    I'm interested in where the Times/ST is going, they seem to have become very anti-Johnson and wonder if they will attempt to shack up with Labour going forward

    They seem very much to be pitching towards younger, more left wing, readership.

    This is probably not a bad thing as the print media is generally quite right wing.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,604
    eadric said:

    Quiz question: Which parliamentary constituency has the smallest geographic area.

    I got the biggest correct but don't know this one.

    (No cheating!)

    One of the Islington seats?
    Oooh, good

    City of London and W?
    That was my first answer. Which was wrong.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,269

    The discussion of Orwell tonight illustrates the limitations of talking about "the Left" and "the Right".

    "One does not decide the truth of a thought according to whether it is right-wing or left-wing."
    - Albert Camus in a letter to Jean-Paul Sartre, 30 June 1952.

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    tlg86 said:

    Not sure if this is true, but Sky certainly didn't want to show it:

    https://twitter.com/JS_Spotting/status/1274765414611013632

    There's a poster down the road from where I live saying that - completely cryptic to me as it doesn't explain.
    I think you'll find that B.A. Betrayal was a character in 'The A Team' played by Mr T.
    I ain’t getting on no aeroplane, fool.
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    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    @BluestBlue

    Sorry - just realised that "I see you" of mine was not nice and could be misinterpreted.

    Didn't mean it that way.

    I just mean that I SEE you. I get you better now. All good.

    Oh. I took that in the hostile sense, hence my reply in the same vein. Apologies.
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    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    eadric said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It's bollocks. Germany has a very small number of cases so the R0 is largely irrelevant at the moment. It's like saying a village has a 100% annual population growth rate when its single inhabitant gets married

    Nicola Sturgeon has retweeted this silliness. An uncharacteristic error
    The Worldometer figures for Germany suggests that there has been a bit up an uptick in cases recently.
    It’s tiny though

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/
    What's the situation in Germany at the moment? I know that fans aren't going to football games. Are workers commuting to offices yet?

    That would be really interesting to know. Do we have any German dwellers on PB who can let us know a.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,604

    tlg86 said:

    Not sure if this is true, but Sky certainly didn't want to show it:

    https://twitter.com/JS_Spotting/status/1274765414611013632

    There's a poster down the road from where I live saying that - completely cryptic to me as it doesn't explain.
    I think you'll find that B.A. Betrayal was a character in 'The A Team' played by Mr T.
    I ain’t getting on no aeroplane, fool.
    He was ahead of the game there!
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,105

    eadric said:

    Quiz question: Which parliamentary constituency has the smallest geographic area.

    I got the biggest correct but don't know this one.

    (No cheating!)

    One of the Islington seats?
    Oooh, good

    City of London and W?
    That was my first answer. Which was wrong.
    It has to be a Labour seat.
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    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    On today’s much-discussed subject of Ash Sarkar, I have to say I like her. Yes, many of her opinions are barking, but on a personal level she seems a lot of fun.

    I reckon of all the people who are mostly famous for being on Twitter she would be the best for a night out.
    Her twitter bio once stated she ‘f*cks like a champion’. Now deleted. I wonder if that’s what attracts so many men of a certain age !
    She is unquestionably hot.

    There is always something satisfying about bedding a stridently left wing girl. They often turn out to be the most submissive.
    I love this site. You won't get stuff like this anywhere else.
    It's also absolutely true. I've encountered it too often in my life, and heard it from too many friends, to regard it as coincidence.

    I can't work out which causes which, however.

    Is it because these women are so shouty, forceful and determined in real life that they yearn to be tied up, spanked and generally bossed around between the sheets?

    Or is it because they are so ashamed of their innate sexual submissiveness that they become hardened feminists fighting for equality in daily life?

    There is a similar phenomenon in men, of course. Often very powerful men harbour a secret desire to be dominated, to let go of that power and be told what to do by a tall, severe lady in shiny black boots and a leather bra.

    *stares at several Tory ex chancellors*
    You need to go outside
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,768

    Quiz question: Which parliamentary constituency has the smallest geographic area.

    I got the biggest correct but don't know this one.

    (No cheating!)

    I cheated and had a look. I'm not going to say, but bloody hell! :lol:
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,269
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    On today’s much-discussed subject of Ash Sarkar, I have to say I like her. Yes, many of her opinions are barking, but on a personal level she seems a lot of fun.

    I reckon of all the people who are mostly famous for being on Twitter she would be the best for a night out.
    Her twitter bio once stated she ‘f*cks like a champion’. Now deleted. I wonder if that’s what attracts so many men of a certain age !
    She is unquestionably hot.

    There is always something satisfying about bedding a stridently left wing girl. They often turn out to be the most submissive.
    I love this site. You won't get stuff like this anywhere else.
    It's also absolutely true. I've encountered it too often in my life, and heard it from too many friends, to regard it as coincidence.
    Evening, Sean :lol:
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,892
    Nigelb said:

    This is really sad. A great guy:

    Alex Zanardi in medically induced coma after his hand-bike collides with lorry
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jun/21/alex-zanardi-in-medically-induced-coma-after-a-crash-on-his-hand-bike

    Very sad, it appears he’s much more seriously injured than was first thought. Someone who’s been through more than enough in their life already, yet somehow has always managed to emerge stronger.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DAXBOcv6AS4
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,303
    Sandpit said:

    Jonathan said:
    One of the greatest rock songs of all time, and desparately crying out for someone to do a modern remake.
    It was written by Joel in 1989 when he was 40, summarising the world events of his life to that point.
    Also, one of the best Wikipedia pages for any song, with references to each event referenced in the lyrics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Didn't_Start_the_Fire
    They could do worse than teaching the reference of every line to pupils today. All the great themes of the later 20th century are in there: the Cold War, de-colonization, Vietnam, the Civil Rights movement, pop culture, the consumer revolution. (Curious though that Joel himself doesn't appear to rate it.)
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,105
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    On today’s much-discussed subject of Ash Sarkar, I have to say I like her. Yes, many of her opinions are barking, but on a personal level she seems a lot of fun.

    I reckon of all the people who are mostly famous for being on Twitter she would be the best for a night out.
    Her twitter bio once stated she ‘f*cks like a champion’. Now deleted. I wonder if that’s what attracts so many men of a certain age !
    She is unquestionably hot.

    There is always something satisfying about bedding a stridently left wing girl. They often turn out to be the most submissive.
    I love this site. You won't get stuff like this anywhere else.
    It's also absolutely true. I've encountered it too often in my life, and heard it from too many friends, to regard it as coincidence.

    I can't work out which causes which, however.

    Is it because these women are so shouty, forceful and determined in real life that they yearn to be tied up, spanked and generally bossed around between the sheets?

    Or is it because they are so ashamed of their innate sexual submissiveness that they become hardened feminists fighting for equality in daily life?

    There is a similar phenomenon in men, of course. Often very powerful men harbour a secret desire to be dominated, to let go of that power and be told what to do by a tall, severe lady in shiny black boots and a leather bra.

    *stares at several Tory ex chancellors*
    I'll take your word for it. I don't have a sufficiently large sample size from which to draw statistically significant inference. Your last paragraph sounded heartfelt.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,057
    Alistair said:

    dixiedean said:

    kinabalu said:

    MP and member of party that's been in government for last 10 years complaining about an Orwellian society.

    https://twitter.com/redhistorian/status/1274715532571312128?s=20

    It's getting to the stage that when anyone starts whining about something being Orwellian, you automatically discount them as a diddy incapable of original thought*.

    *That describes wee Ben 'Spycatcher' Bradley in any case, so no effort needed there.

    One of my all-time unfaves -

    1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    You just know to bail out when that one appears.
    The left has never forgiven Orwell for sussing them out so unanswerably in 'The Lion and the Unicorn' back in 1941:

    'England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during “God save the King” than of stealing from a poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always anti-British. It is questionable how much effect this had, but it certainly had some. If the English people suffered for several years a real weakening of morale, so that the Fascist nations judged that they were ‘decadent’ and that it was safe to plunge into war, the intellectual sabotage from the Left was partly responsible.'
    Spot on. Orwell was a noted Tory Party cheerleader and never failed to put in a good word for them.
    Would be fascinating to hear ol' George's opinion on the infiltration of the governing party by members of the Revolutionary Communist Party and contributors to Living Marxism.
    You missed out IRA supporting
    Though I've read his collected essays I can't remember offhand G.O.'s position on the Balkans, or even if he had one. Nevertheless not in favour of a massacre of 8000 unarmed men and boys or its apologists I'd imagine.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,604
    I've looked up the answer. Islington North.
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    Today's topics:

    Scottish Independence

    Racism

    The sex appeal of Ash Sakar
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