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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The reality is that life won’t get back to normal until a vacc

SystemSystem Posts: 8,258
edited June 21 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The reality is that life won’t get back to normal until a vaccine is widely available

During the day I had a all from an old friend who told me she had recently come out of hospital after getting COVID19. Her story was, no doubt, very similar to what many of the hundreds of thousands who have been struck down with the disease have experienced.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 33,796
    First.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 969
    "The reality is that life won’t get back to normal until a vaccine is widely available"

    Certainly true for those in high risk categories. Let's just hope that a vaccine is possible.

    Much less true, of course, for otherwise healthy children and young or even middle-aged adults.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 21,517
    The fear of course is that there may well never be a vaccine.

    The Oxford Trials have suffered a setback because it turns out they were giving the patients the wrong dosage of vaccine so all the trials have to be restarted.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 33,796
    Vaccine isn't the only hope. The virus may mutate to a non-lethal pathogen.

    An Italian hospital doctor was mentioned earlier whose clinical experience is the virus is not as dangerous as it was.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 54,584
    Scott_xP said:
    Hard to think of an excuse. It's not hard to declare things properly. If there's any doubt, you declare, for a start.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 28,857
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Hard to think of an excuse. It's not hard to declare things properly. If there's any doubt, you declare, for a start.
    He is a Tory , they cannot help themselves, they will do anything for a penny
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 21,517
    FPT

    MaxPB said:

    In these woke times, even sending a fathers day tweet is a minefield.

    It's super easy for Labour, just send a picture of Starmer and his kids, if they are ok with being used as props. It's the kind of thing Blair and Dave would do.
    You would think, but there was probably a 3hr planning meeting to try to ensure any possible avenues of offense was ruled out.
    Yes, one has the distinct impression a committee was involved there.

    Btw, why the apostrophe? The Day doesn't belong to anyone. So it's simply Fathers Day (the day to think about Fathers). No?
    No. It's like All Saints' Day.
    COD has it as Father's, presumably as the day dedicated to the father one happens to have.
    Yes it’s Father’s Day, even though that is counterintuitive. You can argue it is a day for an individual - your father. I’d rather it was plural possessive, but it just isn’t.
    Modern Father's day is in part modelled on Mother's day, which was created by Anna Jarvis.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20080514130408/http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=c942370c-cdbb-43b2-af59-71ad4b546854

    In 1912, Jarvis incorporated her own association, trademarked the white carnation and the phrases "second Sunday in May" and "Mother's Day". She was specific about the location of the apostrophe; it was to be a singular possessive, for each family to honour their mother, not a plural possessive commemorating all mothers in the world.
    Excuse me.

    It is not 'Mother's Day'. In Britain it is 'Mothering Sunday' and it dates back to the 16th century at least. In Britain it was reinvigorated by Constance Penswick-Smith, daughter of the vicar of Coddington church where my wife and I were married.

    We will have none of your colonial rubbish over here thankyou very much.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 25,982
    A vaccine would be great, but it isn't the only solution. An effective drug treatment would also be a way out. This could comprise combining an anti-inflammatory drug such as dexamethasone, already shown to be quite effective in saving lives for those most badly affected, with an anti-viral. I think we can be reasonably confident that further substantial progress on this will be made in the next few months.
  • fox327fox327 Posts: 182

    The fear of course is that there may well never be a vaccine.

    The Oxford Trials have suffered a setback because it turns out they were giving the patients the wrong dosage of vaccine so all the trials have to be restarted.

    This is an embarrassing error. However the fact remains that this vaccine has reached the phase III clinical trials and it is still in the game. Moderna has a vaccine which is planned to start phase III clinical trials in July. There are other vaccines in clinical trials in various countries.

    The problem is not that we do not have vaccines, it is that they are supposed to pass all the clinical trials before they are brought into use and this is made more difficult as the virus is not being actively transmitted in many countries at the moment. This is our choice. The virus is not making us do the clinical trials. Also, we have the option to carry out human challenge trials where vaccinated volunteers are exposed to the virus.

    There will be a vaccine when the sooner of one of the following is reached. Either a vaccine passes all the clinical trials and is approved, or we have had enough of waiting for enough data to be collected and decide to make one or more of the vaccine candidates available to the population. I can't see us waiting for more than a year or two as the need for a vaccine will become desperate.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 9,922
    FPT
    SandyRentool said:

    » 'Fathers' Day is a day for fathers, plural. Not for one father.'

    I never observed it. Fathers' Day was invented by cardmakers in the early 70s. I recall nobody sending such cards when growing up in the 1960s.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 34,876
    Looking forward to doing those last two trains heading west and north from Inverness, but not at all sure when it will be safe enough to travel up there and stay, what, three nights.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 14,649
    Thanks Mike, a good article. The problem I have is that the government has never really made it clear what intermediate state it is aiming for, seams pretty inconsistent at meeting any of its goals and gives every appearance about being shit scared about the economic and political implications If lockdown and is trying rush us back to normal.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 14,649
    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    Mount Rushmore will present a challenge.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 25,982
    Jonathan said:

    Thanks Mike, a good article. The problem I have is that the government has never really made it clear what intermediate state it is aiming for, seams pretty inconsistent at meeting any of its goals and gives every appearance about being shit scared about the economic and political implications If lockdown and is trying rush us back to normal.

    To be fair, being shit scared about the economic and political implications of lockdown is very sensible.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 25,982
    Jonathan said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    Mount Rushmore will present a challenge.
    No problem: They've got all those tactical nukes.
  • isamisam Posts: 32,714
    A moving header. A bug, deadly to those with underlying conditions, floating around everywhere would have been a sci-fi movie a year ago and now it's people's reality. My own father has barely been out in three months and is resigned to a much less sociable life until a vaccine is found.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 20,573
    Fishing said:

    "The reality is that life won’t get back to normal until a vaccine is widely available"

    Certainly true for those in high risk categories. Let's just hope that a vaccine is possible.

    Much less true, of course, for otherwise healthy children and young or even middle-aged adults.

    I'd imagine being distanced or completely cut off from their vulnerable and/or elderly relatives won't be getting back to normal for a lot of kids and young/middle aged folk.
  • SurreySurrey Posts: 190
    edited June 21
    Mike Pence is at 32 for the Republican nominee "as a result of the Republican convention". And he's at 140 for next president - meaning not if Trump leaves office early but as the person who will have the most "projected votes" in the electoral college after the vote on 3 November. (In both cases I'm using the last matched price.)

    That combination of prices is absurd.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 13,176
    edited June 21
    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    It's not really though is it? The history will still be there; there's not going to be a big black hole between 1901 and 1909.

    Statues ≠ history.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 28,030
    edited June 21
    eadric said:

    Jonathan said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    Mount Rushmore will present a challenge.
    Amazingly, I now think it possible they will attempt to destroy it, as it commemorates:

    Thomas Jefferson, a slave owner: his statues have already come down
    George Washington, a slave owner: his statue was toppled in Oregon
    Abraham Lincoln, a racist: his statues have been defaced in several places
    Theodore Roosevelt: a "colonialist" - his statue is now departing NYC

    That's a lot of icons begging to be broken
    They should do that confederate mountain down in Georgia first

    Edit:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Mountain

    I hadn’t realised they had specific bought it in 1958 as a memorial to the CSA and a response to Brown vs Bd of Education
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 3,643
    The Catch-22 of the race for a vaccine is that there aren’t enough infected people to test the bloody things.

    But, it’s a nice Catch-22 to have, I s’pose.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,215

    Looking forward to doing those last two trains heading west and north from Inverness, but not at all sure when it will be safe enough to travel up there and stay, what, three nights.

    Sunil - you will certainly be ok to do that in August

    Perhaps you can call in on malcolmg on the way to wish him greetings from London! :lol:
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 14,649
    On the basis of that, the left have nothing to worry about. I wonder if Toby Young spent all weekend colouring in that. It’s a bit sad really.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,935
    edited June 21

    The Catch-22 of the race for a vaccine is that there aren’t enough infected people to test the bloody things.

    But, it’s a nice Catch-22 to have, I s’pose.

    No shortage in the US...or the Americas.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,130
    edited June 21

    FPT

    MaxPB said:

    In these woke times, even sending a fathers day tweet is a minefield.

    It's super easy for Labour, just send a picture of Starmer and his kids, if they are ok with being used as props. It's the kind of thing Blair and Dave would do.
    You would think, but there was probably a 3hr planning meeting to try to ensure any possible avenues of offense was ruled out.
    Yes, one has the distinct impression a committee was involved there.

    Btw, why the apostrophe? The Day doesn't belong to anyone. So it's simply Fathers Day (the day to think about Fathers). No?
    No. It's like All Saints' Day.
    COD has it as Father's, presumably as the day dedicated to the father one happens to have.
    Yes it’s Father’s Day, even though that is counterintuitive. You can argue it is a day for an individual - your father. I’d rather it was plural possessive, but it just isn’t.
    Modern Father's day is in part modelled on Mother's day, which was created by Anna Jarvis.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20080514130408/http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=c942370c-cdbb-43b2-af59-71ad4b546854

    In 1912, Jarvis incorporated her own association, trademarked the white carnation and the phrases "second Sunday in May" and "Mother's Day". She was specific about the location of the apostrophe; it was to be a singular possessive, for each family to honour their mother, not a plural possessive commemorating all mothers in the world.
    Excuse me.

    It is not 'Mother's Day'. In Britain it is 'Mothering Sunday' and it dates back to the 16th century at least. In Britain it was reinvigorated by Constance Penswick-Smith, daughter of the vicar of Coddington church where my wife and I were married.

    We will have none of your colonial rubbish over here thankyou very much.
    Modern Father's day, as it is celebrated in the UK, is an import that comes from the US holiday. That is why we use that spelling. The US holiday of Father's day was in part inspired by US Mother's Day which was created early last century.

    I did not say modern Father's Day is based on Mothering Sunday.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 3,643

    The Catch-22 of the race for a vaccine is that there aren’t enough infected people to test the bloody things.

    But, it’s a nice Catch-22 to have, I s’pose.

    No shortage in the US...or the Americas.
    True, that might have to be the way forward - testing the Oxford vaccine in Miami.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,935

    The fear of course is that there may well never be a vaccine.

    The Oxford Trials have suffered a setback because it turns out they were giving the patients the wrong dosage of vaccine so all the trials have to be restarted.

    Link?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 5,801
    Is being anti-cannabis now a badge of Right-wingery? When did that come about? I thought the libertarian tradition from which Toby hails regarded drug prohibition as all a bit nanny state.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,935
    edited June 21

    The Catch-22 of the race for a vaccine is that there aren’t enough infected people to test the bloody things.

    But, it’s a nice Catch-22 to have, I s’pose.

    No shortage in the US...or the Americas.
    True, that might have to be the way forward - testing the Oxford vaccine in Miami.
    Already been approved in Brazil to run a trial and recruiting.
  • isamisam Posts: 32,714
    edited June 21
    ...
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 7,673
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    It's not really though is it? The history will still be there; there's not going to be a big black hole between 1901 and 1909.

    Statues ≠ history.
    Yes, it is. This isn't just statues. It's street names, murals, movies, buildings, sitcoms, unsound books, academic opinions, the works. It is a complete and comprehensive editing of American culture and history (and ours, to a lesser extent)

    For the first time, peer reviewed science is being withdrawn, as too "sensitive".

    It is, for me, the closing of the Western mind and I believe it is a tragic mis-step. I dearly hope I am utterly wrong
    Relax. You're wrong. It isn't a sign of the End Of Civilisation As We Know It - just a bunch of immature idiots carrying a reasonable thought to absurd lenghts.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,935
    edited June 21

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    It's not really though is it? The history will still be there; there's not going to be a big black hole between 1901 and 1909.

    Statues ≠ history.
    Yes, it is. This isn't just statues. It's street names, murals, movies, buildings, sitcoms, unsound books, academic opinions, the works. It is a complete and comprehensive editing of American culture and history (and ours, to a lesser extent)

    For the first time, peer reviewed science is being withdrawn, as too "sensitive".

    It is, for me, the closing of the Western mind and I believe it is a tragic mis-step. I dearly hope I am utterly wrong
    Relax. You're wrong. It isn't a sign of the End Of Civilisation As We Know It - just a bunch of immature idiots carrying a reasonable thought to absurd lenghts.
    But nobody is saying that and ultimately no, stop it. Macron had the right response.
  • Toby Young is such a bore.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 1,934
    eadric said:

    Yah, OK, like y'know, BLM is a bit anti-Semitic, OK a lot anti-Semitic, OK kinda Nazi, but hey, like, who cares, right now, uh, like, is that raaaallly an isshooo here?

    Hmm, where have we heard things like that before? Is this chap a friend of Jezza's?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,935

    eadric said:

    Yah, OK, like y'know, BLM is a bit anti-Semitic, OK a lot anti-Semitic, OK kinda Nazi, but hey, like, who cares, right now, uh, like, is that raaaallly an isshooo here?

    Hmm, where have we heard things like that before? Is this chap a friend of Jezza's?
    Elderly man in viral Black Lives Matter picture is unmasked as IRA apologist and conspiracy theorist - and he blames 'Zionists' for 'targeting him online'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8432337/Elderly-man-pictured-young-activist-viral-BLM-image-IRA-apologist-conspiracy-theorist.html
  • houndtanghoundtang Posts: 410
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    It's not really though is it? The history will still be there; there's not going to be a big black hole between 1901 and 1909.

    Statues ≠ history.
    Yes, it is. This isn't just statues. It's street names, murals, movies, buildings, sitcoms, unsound books, academic opinions, the works. It is a complete and comprehensive editing of American culture and history (and ours, to a lesser extent)

    For the first time, peer reviewed science is being withdrawn, as too "sensitive".

    It is, for me, the closing of the Western mind and I believe it is a tragic mis-step. I dearly hope I am utterly wrong
    Relax. You're wrong. It isn't a sign of the End Of Civilisation As We Know It - just a bunch of immature idiots carrying a reasonable thought to absurd lenghts.
    I fear you are wrong, I hope I am wrong
    I don't think you are, sadly.

    "...every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."
  • Toby Young is such a bore.
    eadric said:

    Mediocre. No worse than most SNL skits (which are surprisingly bad) but no better. Laborious

    This girl is much better. Superbly skewers the Woke bourgeois

    Wut? She makes just as many videos taking the piss out of the Tories...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 14,649
    If you want comedy, I recommend What we do in the Shadows on iPlayer. Father Ted meets Vampires. The character of Colin Robinson, the energy vampire, is perfect.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 3,771
    eadric said:

    Jonathan said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    Mount Rushmore will present a challenge.
    Amazingly, I now think it possible they will attempt to destroy it, as it commemorates:

    Thomas Jefferson, a slave owner: his statues have already come down
    George Washington, a slave owner: his statue was toppled in Oregon
    Abraham Lincoln, a racist: his statues have been defaced in several places
    Theodore Roosevelt: a "colonialist" - his statue is now departing NYC

    That's a lot of icons begging to be broken
    Given the massive challenges we are facing on the health, economic and environmental fronts right now all this stuff about statues and "wokeness" has a distinct air of fiddling while Rome burns.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 14,649
    edited June 21
    Our culture has been drowning in nostalgia and associated romantic twaddle (eg Brexit) for the past few years. A little bit more consideration of the here and now and the future is perhaps no bad thing.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 6,473
    isam said:

    A moving header. A bug, deadly to those with underlying conditions, floating around everywhere would have been a sci-fi movie a year ago and now it's people's reality. My own father has barely been out in three months and is resigned to a much less sociable life until a vaccine is found.

    Given the 5.4% infection estimate from the ONS (down from the previous one) and the excess death figure of 64,500, the overall fatality rate in the UK is now looking like about 1.8%.

    To my mind the idea that the virus is something that only people with medical conditions need to be worried about became untenable quite a while ago.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 20,573
    Jonathan said:

    If you want comedy, I recommend What we do in the Shadows on iPlayer. Father Ted meets Vampires. The character of Colin Robinson, the energy vampire, is perfect.

    It's great, a fair bit of chortling out loud at it going on in my hoose.


  • She does such a great job slaying the right wing muppets
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 1,934
    OllyT said:

    eadric said:

    Jonathan said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    Mount Rushmore will present a challenge.
    Amazingly, I now think it possible they will attempt to destroy it, as it commemorates:

    Thomas Jefferson, a slave owner: his statues have already come down
    George Washington, a slave owner: his statue was toppled in Oregon
    Abraham Lincoln, a racist: his statues have been defaced in several places
    Theodore Roosevelt: a "colonialist" - his statue is now departing NYC

    That's a lot of icons begging to be broken
    Given the massive challenges we are facing on the health, economic and environmental fronts right now all this stuff about statues and "wokeness" has a distinct air of fiddling while Rome burns.
    Maybe tell the wokeists to stop pulling down the statues then? Problem solved.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 14,649
    eadric said:

    OllyT said:

    eadric said:

    Jonathan said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    Mount Rushmore will present a challenge.
    Amazingly, I now think it possible they will attempt to destroy it, as it commemorates:

    Thomas Jefferson, a slave owner: his statues have already come down
    George Washington, a slave owner: his statue was toppled in Oregon
    Abraham Lincoln, a racist: his statues have been defaced in several places
    Theodore Roosevelt: a "colonialist" - his statue is now departing NYC

    That's a lot of icons begging to be broken
    Given the massive challenges we are facing on the health, economic and environmental fronts right now all this stuff about statues and "wokeness" has a distinct air of fiddling while Rome burns.
    i completely agree, the problem is once you start an iconoclasm they are very hard to stop until the burn themselves out or self-destruct. Once one graven image is deemed so hateful it must be broken, then why is this almost identical graven image allowed? It cannot be allowed! Burn it down!

    They have an inner logic and volition.
    Sound a lot like Brexiteers.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 7,673
    edited June 21
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    It's not really though is it? The history will still be there; there's not going to be a big black hole between 1901 and 1909.

    Statues ≠ history.
    Yes, it is. This isn't just statues. It's street names, murals, movies, buildings, sitcoms, unsound books, academic opinions, the works. It is a complete and comprehensive editing of American culture and history (and ours, to a lesser extent)

    For the first time, peer reviewed science is being withdrawn, as too "sensitive".

    It is, for me, the closing of the Western mind and I believe it is a tragic mis-step. I dearly hope I am utterly wrong
    Relax. You're wrong. It isn't a sign of the End Of Civilisation As We Know It - just a bunch of immature idiots carrying a reasonable thought to absurd lenghts.
    I fear you are wrong, I hope I am wrong
    Well, I guess if you keep predicting its end you'll be right one day. Personally I can easily imagine the End Of The USA As We Know It and within my lifetime too, but if and when it happens it won't be because of street names or statues.

    Btw, I was much amused by the Labour Party Father's Day Card. I did a little research and discovered it was the brainchild of the same team that brought us Winterval, and of course the Jubilympics.



    Nite everyone. See you all tomorrow, if Civilisation lasts that long.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,130
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    It's not really though is it? The history will still be there; there's not going to be a big black hole between 1901 and 1909.

    Statues ≠ history.
    Yes, it is. This isn't just statues. It's street names, murals, movies, buildings, sitcoms, unsound books, academic opinions, the works. It is a complete and comprehensive editing of American culture and history (and ours, to a lesser extent)

    For the first time, peer reviewed science is being withdrawn, as too "sensitive".

    It is, for me, the closing of the Western mind and I believe it is a tragic mis-step. I dearly hope I am utterly wrong
    Some slopes are actually slippery.

  • eadric said:

    Toby Young is such a bore.

    eadric said:

    Mediocre. No worse than most SNL skits (which are surprisingly bad) but no better. Laborious

    This girl is much better. Superbly skewers the Woke bourgeois

    Wut? She makes just as many videos taking the piss out of the Tories...
    She does, which is what makes her rather good. Everyone deserves to be satirised and she is not afraid to take on the Left as well as the Right.

    She's excellent. Also quite sexy.
    I think she's fantastic, I think the fact one can't easily tell where she stands, is what makes her such an impressive rarity
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,935

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    It's not really though is it? The history will still be there; there's not going to be a big black hole between 1901 and 1909.

    Statues ≠ history.
    Yes, it is. This isn't just statues. It's street names, murals, movies, buildings, sitcoms, unsound books, academic opinions, the works. It is a complete and comprehensive editing of American culture and history (and ours, to a lesser extent)

    For the first time, peer reviewed science is being withdrawn, as too "sensitive".

    It is, for me, the closing of the Western mind and I believe it is a tragic mis-step. I dearly hope I am utterly wrong
    Some slopes are actually slippery.

    He is the same comedian who was banging on about how great unions were not very long ago, who is now is saying major problems with the po po in the US is because of unions....
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 21,517

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    It's not really though is it? The history will still be there; there's not going to be a big black hole between 1901 and 1909.

    Statues ≠ history.
    Yes, it is. This isn't just statues. It's street names, murals, movies, buildings, sitcoms, unsound books, academic opinions, the works. It is a complete and comprehensive editing of American culture and history (and ours, to a lesser extent)

    For the first time, peer reviewed science is being withdrawn, as too "sensitive".

    It is, for me, the closing of the Western mind and I believe it is a tragic mis-step. I dearly hope I am utterly wrong
    Relax. You're wrong. It isn't a sign of the End Of Civilisation As We Know It - just a bunch of immature idiots carrying a reasonable thought to absurd lenghts.
    No I think you have severely misread this. It is not just the statues and all the other many physical representations including books. It is now also the rewriting of curriculums in schools and universities so that our children will no longer be taught large parts of our culture and what they are taught is vetted by those with a vested interest in rewriting history according to their own political and cultural views.

    This is not a vision of the future it is already happening. A letter from the headmaster of my son's school on Thursday was all about the BLM movement and included the following

    "All parts of the school are reviewing their curricula in line with the national agenda, with focus on History, English, Art, Music and Personal Development (PD). Since January the History department have been helping to run the “Decolonising the Curriculum” project with Lincoln University and are integrating this within the curriculum."

    Having some knowledge of the history department of Lincoln University I can assure you there is not one academic there that most of us would consider neutral or centrist.

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 21,517

    The fear of course is that there may well never be a vaccine.

    The Oxford Trials have suffered a setback because it turns out they were giving the patients the wrong dosage of vaccine so all the trials have to be restarted.

    Link?
    Well I heard it from a friend who is a senior pharmacist in the NHS. But a quick trawl found a news item about it here:

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/oxford-uni-scientists-accidentally-give-22197078
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 3,771
    edited June 21
    eadric said:

    OllyT said:

    eadric said:

    Jonathan said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    Mount Rushmore will present a challenge.
    Amazingly, I now think it possible they will attempt to destroy it, as it commemorates:

    Thomas Jefferson, a slave owner: his statues have already come down
    George Washington, a slave owner: his statue was toppled in Oregon
    Abraham Lincoln, a racist: his statues have been defaced in several places
    Theodore Roosevelt: a "colonialist" - his statue is now departing NYC

    That's a lot of icons begging to be broken
    Given the massive challenges we are facing on the health, economic and environmental fronts right now all this stuff about statues and "wokeness" has a distinct air of fiddling while Rome burns.
    i completely agree, the problem is once you start an iconoclasm they are very hard to stop until they burn themselves out or self-destruct. Once one graven image is deemed so hateful it must be broken, then why is this almost identical graven image allowed? It cannot be allowed! Burn it down!

    They have an inner logic and volition.
    Students and youngsters have been demonstrating and outraging their elders since time began. All that's changed is that you and Bluesest Blue have morphed into today's "disgusted from Tunbridge Wells". It just hasn't dawned on you yet
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,935
    edited June 21

    The fear of course is that there may well never be a vaccine.

    The Oxford Trials have suffered a setback because it turns out they were giving the patients the wrong dosage of vaccine so all the trials have to be restarted.

    Link?
    Well I heard it from a friend who is a senior pharmacist in the NHS. But a quick trawl found a news item about it here:

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/oxford-uni-scientists-accidentally-give-22197078
    Thanks. It doesn't say how serious / order of magnitude the under-dosing was though. Also, says trial not restarted.

    We know they already got ok for Brazil as well.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 22,334

    The fear of course is that there may well never be a vaccine.

    The Oxford Trials have suffered a setback because it turns out they were giving the patients the wrong dosage of vaccine so all the trials have to be restarted.

    Link?
    Well I heard it from a friend who is a senior pharmacist in the NHS. But a quick trawl found a news item about it here:

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/oxford-uni-scientists-accidentally-give-22197078
    Interesting, but no actual numbers (though it suggests the discrepancy was small, it’s not defined).
    Doesn’t sound as though the trials will have to be restarted from that article ?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 1,934
    OllyT said:

    eadric said:

    OllyT said:

    eadric said:

    Jonathan said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    Mount Rushmore will present a challenge.
    Amazingly, I now think it possible they will attempt to destroy it, as it commemorates:

    Thomas Jefferson, a slave owner: his statues have already come down
    George Washington, a slave owner: his statue was toppled in Oregon
    Abraham Lincoln, a racist: his statues have been defaced in several places
    Theodore Roosevelt: a "colonialist" - his statue is now departing NYC

    That's a lot of icons begging to be broken
    Given the massive challenges we are facing on the health, economic and environmental fronts right now all this stuff about statues and "wokeness" has a distinct air of fiddling while Rome burns.
    i completely agree, the problem is once you start an iconoclasm they are very hard to stop until they burn themselves out or self-destruct. Once one graven image is deemed so hateful it must be broken, then why is this almost identical graven image allowed? It cannot be allowed! Burn it down!

    They have an inner logic and volition.
    Students and youngsters have been demonstrating and outraging their elders since time began. All that's changed is that you and Bluesest Blue have morphed into today's "disgusted from Tunbridge Wells". It just hasn't dawned on you yet
    'Outraging your elders' now means tearing down the foundations of our civilization? That's some impressive historical illiteracy you've got going on there...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 73,082
    eadric said:

    OllyT said:

    eadric said:

    OllyT said:

    eadric said:

    Jonathan said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    Mount Rushmore will present a challenge.
    Amazingly, I now think it possible they will attempt to destroy it, as it commemorates:

    Thomas Jefferson, a slave owner: his statues have already come down
    George Washington, a slave owner: his statue was toppled in Oregon
    Abraham Lincoln, a racist: his statues have been defaced in several places
    Theodore Roosevelt: a "colonialist" - his statue is now departing NYC

    That's a lot of icons begging to be broken
    Given the massive challenges we are facing on the health, economic and environmental fronts right now all this stuff about statues and "wokeness" has a distinct air of fiddling while Rome burns.
    i completely agree, the problem is once you start an iconoclasm they are very hard to stop until they burn themselves out or self-destruct. Once one graven image is deemed so hateful it must be broken, then why is this almost identical graven image allowed? It cannot be allowed! Burn it down!

    They have an inner logic and volition.
    Students and youngsters have been demonstrating and outraging their elders since time began. All that's changed is that you and Bluesest Blue have morphed into today's "disgusted from Tunbridge Wells". It just hasn't dawned on you yet
    I may well be Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells but at least I am not a drooling moron
    I am literally Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells, I was born and raised there, now transferred to Disgusted of Epping
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 19,536
    John Oliver, like a lot of lefty comedians, thinks shouting and saying "orange man bad" over and over again is funny. He and Nish Kumar are the worst at this.

    A proper comedian can find humour in any situation, including those you agree with. The likes of Oliver she Kumar would never be able to bring themselves to do that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 22,334
    Jonathan said:

    If you want comedy, I recommend What we do in the Shadows on iPlayer. Father Ted meets Vampires. The character of Colin Robinson, the energy vampire, is perfect.

    The Great is also very good (though peppered with c&f bombs).

  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 3,771
    edited June 21

    OllyT said:

    eadric said:

    OllyT said:

    eadric said:

    Jonathan said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    Mount Rushmore will present a challenge.
    Amazingly, I now think it possible they will attempt to destroy it, as it commemorates:

    Thomas Jefferson, a slave owner: his statues have already come down
    George Washington, a slave owner: his statue was toppled in Oregon
    Abraham Lincoln, a racist: his statues have been defaced in several places
    Theodore Roosevelt: a "colonialist" - his statue is now departing NYC

    That's a lot of icons begging to be broken
    Given the massive challenges we are facing on the health, economic and environmental fronts right now all this stuff about statues and "wokeness" has a distinct air of fiddling while Rome burns.
    i completely agree, the problem is once you start an iconoclasm they are very hard to stop until they burn themselves out or self-destruct. Once one graven image is deemed so hateful it must be broken, then why is this almost identical graven image allowed? It cannot be allowed! Burn it down!

    They have an inner logic and volition.
    Students and youngsters have been demonstrating and outraging their elders since time began. All that's changed is that you and Bluesest Blue have morphed into today's "disgusted from Tunbridge Wells". It just hasn't dawned on you yet
    'Outraging your elders' now means tearing down the foundations of our civilization? That's some impressive historical illiteracy you've got going on there...
    You could hear exactly the same sentiments during the Vietnam demonstrations, gay rights demonstrations, poll tax demonstrations, Toxteth riots, etc etc etc.

    You are behaving like a superannuated old colonel claiming that moving a few old statues constitutes "tearing down the foundations of our civilisation". Give your head a wobble and actually listen to yourself.

    It's a few old statues. At the end of the day half a dozen will end up being moved into a museum where they probably belonged in the first place.

    If you are really worried about the future of civilisation you would be better turning your attention to the current pandemic raging across the planet and the economic consequences heading our way.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 448
    houndtang said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    It's not really though is it? The history will still be there; there's not going to be a big black hole between 1901 and 1909.

    Statues ≠ history.
    Yes, it is. This isn't just statues. It's street names, murals, movies, buildings, sitcoms, unsound books, academic opinions, the works. It is a complete and comprehensive editing of American culture and history (and ours, to a lesser extent)

    For the first time, peer reviewed science is being withdrawn, as too "sensitive".

    It is, for me, the closing of the Western mind and I believe it is a tragic mis-step. I dearly hope I am utterly wrong
    Relax. You're wrong. It isn't a sign of the End Of Civilisation As We Know It - just a bunch of immature idiots carrying a reasonable thought to absurd lenghts.
    I fear you are wrong, I hope I am wrong
    I don't think you are, sadly.

    "...every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."
    No doubt Orwell will have to go from the front of Broadcasting House as well having been a colonial policeman in Burma.
  • isamisam Posts: 32,714
    edited June 21
    Chris said:

    isam said:

    A moving header. A bug, deadly to those with underlying conditions, floating around everywhere would have been a sci-fi movie a year ago and now it's people's reality. My own father has barely been out in three months and is resigned to a much less sociable life until a vaccine is found.

    Given the 5.4% infection estimate from the ONS (down from the previous one) and the excess death figure of 64,500, the overall fatality rate in the UK is now looking like about 1.8%.

    To my mind the idea that the virus is something that only people with medical conditions need to be worried about became untenable quite a while ago.
    Quite a small percentage had no medical conditions


  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 3,286
    eadric said:

    OllyT said:

    eadric said:

    OllyT said:

    eadric said:

    Jonathan said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    Mount Rushmore will present a challenge.
    Amazingly, I now think it possible they will attempt to destroy it, as it commemorates:

    Thomas Jefferson, a slave owner: his statues have already come down
    George Washington, a slave owner: his statue was toppled in Oregon
    Abraham Lincoln, a racist: his statues have been defaced in several places
    Theodore Roosevelt: a "colonialist" - his statue is now departing NYC

    That's a lot of icons begging to be broken
    Given the massive challenges we are facing on the health, economic and environmental fronts right now all this stuff about statues and "wokeness" has a distinct air of fiddling while Rome burns.
    i completely agree, the problem is once you start an iconoclasm they are very hard to stop until they burn themselves out or self-destruct. Once one graven image is deemed so hateful it must be broken, then why is this almost identical graven image allowed? It cannot be allowed! Burn it down!

    They have an inner logic and volition.
    Students and youngsters have been demonstrating and outraging their elders since time began. All that's changed is that you and Bluesest Blue have morphed into today's "disgusted from Tunbridge Wells". It just hasn't dawned on you yet
    I may well be Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells but at least I am not a drooling moron
    Of course not. You are not orange coloured..... ;)
  • isamisam Posts: 32,714
    Who isn't?!
  • isamisam Posts: 32,714
    I was thinking this earlier... a lot of shy conservatives next time I'd say. Disagree with BLM in public and lose your job

  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 3,771
    eadric said:

    OllyT said:

    eadric said:

    OllyT said:

    eadric said:

    Jonathan said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    Mount Rushmore will present a challenge.
    Amazingly, I now think it possible they will attempt to destroy it, as it commemorates:

    Thomas Jefferson, a slave owner: his statues have already come down
    George Washington, a slave owner: his statue was toppled in Oregon
    Abraham Lincoln, a racist: his statues have been defaced in several places
    Theodore Roosevelt: a "colonialist" - his statue is now departing NYC

    That's a lot of icons begging to be broken
    Given the massive challenges we are facing on the health, economic and environmental fronts right now all this stuff about statues and "wokeness" has a distinct air of fiddling while Rome burns.
    i completely agree, the problem is once you start an iconoclasm they are very hard to stop until they burn themselves out or self-destruct. Once one graven image is deemed so hateful it must be broken, then why is this almost identical graven image allowed? It cannot be allowed! Burn it down!

    They have an inner logic and volition.
    Students and youngsters have been demonstrating and outraging their elders since time began. All that's changed is that you and Bluesest Blue have morphed into today's "disgusted from Tunbridge Wells". It just hasn't dawned on you yet
    I may well be Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells but at least I am not a drooling moron
    We only have your word for that. Or is that Sean T's word, or Byronic's or Eadric's. Who knows?
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,130
    eadric said:

    Yah, OK, like y'know, BLM is a bit anti-Semitic, OK a lot anti-Semitic, OK kinda Nazi, but hey, like, who cares, right now, uh, like, is that raaaallly an isshooo here?

    Weird how the forum "anti-racists" suddenly aren't interested.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 73,082
    isam said:

    I was thinking this earlier... a lot of shy conservatives next time I'd say. Disagree with BLM in public and lose your job

    Yet without considering all sides of the argument history ceases to become an objective academic discipline based on factual research and just becomes propoganda
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 7,769
    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    I was thinking this earlier... a lot of shy conservatives next time I'd say. Disagree with BLM in public and lose your job

    Yet without considering all sides of the argument history ceases to become an objective academic discipline based on factual research and just becomes propoganda
    You’re the king of propaganda.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 73,082

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    I was thinking this earlier... a lot of shy conservatives next time I'd say. Disagree with BLM in public and lose your job

    Yet without considering all sides of the argument history ceases to become an objective academic discipline based on factual research and just becomes propoganda
    You’re the king of propaganda.
    Yes but on here it is obvious I am arguing the Tory cause, I am not writing academic articles with footnotes and citations as a paid professional academic historian
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,935
    edited June 21
    The Reading terrorist suspect was only released from prison two weeks ago.after serving less than half of a 28 month sentence.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,029

    eadric said:

    Yah, OK, like y'know, BLM is a bit anti-Semitic, OK a lot anti-Semitic, OK kinda Nazi, but hey, like, who cares, right now, uh, like, is that raaaallly an isshooo here?

    Weird how the forum "anti-racists" suddenly aren't interested.
    Quelle surprise!
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 14,083
    edited June 21
    On topic, a vaccine would work but I don't think it's the only path to reopening the economy. Others - which aren't necessarily mutually exclusive - are:

    * Moderate lifestyle changes. This is the Japan approach - "with corona" - little bits of reengineering of shops and meeting spaces life mostly continues as normal. It's still tough on social venues, since at best they have to reduce capacity, but the economy is nothing like "closed". It gets easier to do this more effectively and less disruptively as we learn more about how the virus spreads

    * Very fast, cheap testing, and a good process for isolating people who test positive. It's hard to make testing useful beyond known clusters because hardly anyone has got the virus (so lots of effort to find each case) and you're probably spreading it as soon as you're testing positive (or sooner), so you may need to be testing *very* frequently to get decent effects, but this feels like the kind of thing you could do cheaply at scale. You can also focus this on the places most at risk of spreading - for example, Tokyo is still having trouble with cases in bars, host/hostess clubs and brothels, so even though they're not doing much testing generally, they're doing a lot of proactive testing there.

    * Better treatment - treatment is gradually improving, and there could be bigger breakthroughs
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 20,573
    I knew he wouldn't be voting for Trump, but hell hath no fury like a Neocon scorned.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 73,082

    I knew he wouldn't be voting for Trump, but hell hath no fury like a Neocon scorned.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 14,083
    On the "cheap, scalable testing" thing, thread on a (pre-review) paper by boffins at Columbia University, they reckon they've got a reliable test that can produce fairly accurate results from a saliva sample in 30 minutes, using just a little centrifuge and a heater.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/hdcqda/fielddeployable_rapid_diagnostic_testing_of/
  • EPGEPG Posts: 3,497

    eadric said:

    Yah, OK, like y'know, BLM is a bit anti-Semitic, OK a lot anti-Semitic, OK kinda Nazi, but hey, like, who cares, right now, uh, like, is that raaaallly an isshooo here?

    Weird how the forum "anti-racists" suddenly aren't interested.
    Nobody here claims to be "a" BLM whatever that is as far as I see, whereas plenty have been telling us how wearing a swastika would be a bit of a Sid-type laff compared to saying "workers of the world unite".
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,130
    edited June 22
    HYUFD said:
    This isn't isolated, plenty of recent polls have been showing big enthusiasm gaps.

    Fox poll
    https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/06/Fox_June-13-16-2020_National_Topline_June-18-Release.pdf

    Enthusiasm for your candidate to win / Fear the other candidate might win / (Don’t know)

    13-16 Jun 20
    Biden supporters 31% / 63% / 5%
    Trump supporters 62% / 33% / 5%

    27-29 Sep 16
    Clinton supporters 44% / 54% / 2%
    Trump supporters 35% / 61% / 4%

    -------

    Economist/YouGov
    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/vgqowgynze/econTabReport.pdf

    Enthusiastic / Satisfied but not enthusiastic/ Dissatisfied but not upset / Upset / Not sure

    Biden supporters
    31% / 49% / 15% / 3% / 2%

    Trump supporters
    68% / 26% / 5% / 2% / 0%

    -------

    CNN
    https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2020/images/06/08/rel6a.-.race.and.2020.pdf

    June 2-5, 2020 Biden supporters
    Vote for Biden / Vote against Trump / No opinion
    37% / 60% / 2%

    June 2-5, 2020 Trump supporters
    Vote for Trump / Vote against Biden / No opinion
    70% / 27% / 3%


  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 14,083


    Enthusiasm for your candidate to win / Fear the other candidate might win / (Don’t know)

    I'd like to see this polling rephrased as "enthusiasm that the other candidate might lose"
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 2,538
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    eadric said:

    OllyT said:

    eadric said:

    Jonathan said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    Mount Rushmore will present a challenge.
    Amazingly, I now think it possible they will attempt to destroy it, as it commemorates:

    Thomas Jefferson, a slave owner: his statues have already come down
    George Washington, a slave owner: his statue was toppled in Oregon
    Abraham Lincoln, a racist: his statues have been defaced in several places
    Theodore Roosevelt: a "colonialist" - his statue is now departing NYC

    That's a lot of icons begging to be broken
    Given the massive challenges we are facing on the health, economic and environmental fronts right now all this stuff about statues and "wokeness" has a distinct air of fiddling while Rome burns.
    i completely agree, the problem is once you start an iconoclasm they are very hard to stop until they burn themselves out or self-destruct. Once one graven image is deemed so hateful it must be broken, then why is this almost identical graven image allowed? It cannot be allowed! Burn it down!

    They have an inner logic and volition.
    Students and youngsters have been demonstrating and outraging their elders since time began. All that's changed is that you and Bluesest Blue have morphed into today's "disgusted from Tunbridge Wells". It just hasn't dawned on you yet
    'Outraging your elders' now means tearing down the foundations of our civilization? That's some impressive historical illiteracy you've got going on there...
    You could hear exactly the same sentiments during the Vietnam demonstrations, gay rights demonstrations, poll tax demonstrations, Toxteth riots, etc etc etc.

    You are behaving like a superannuated old colonel claiming that moving a few old statues constitutes "tearing down the foundations of our civilisation". Give your head a wobble and actually listen to yourself.

    It's a few old statues. At the end of the day half a dozen will end up being moved into a museum where they probably belonged in the first place.

    If you are really worried about the future of civilisation you would be better turning your attention to the current pandemic raging across the planet and the economic consequences heading our way.
    Thinking that "old" in "a few old statues" is a negative, puts one in mind of Betjeman

    "And what was the funniest part,
    We smashed some rotten old pictures that were priceless works of art."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 6,036
    O/T

    "The case for taking more risks
    Matthew Crawford's new book is one of the most original studies of practical philosophy to be published in years
    BY JOHN GRAY"

    https://unherd.com/2020/06/the-case-for-taking-more-risks/
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 2,958

    FPT

    MaxPB said:

    In these woke times, even sending a fathers day tweet is a minefield.

    It's super easy for Labour, just send a picture of Starmer and his kids, if they are ok with being used as props. It's the kind of thing Blair and Dave would do.
    You would think, but there was probably a 3hr planning meeting to try to ensure any possible avenues of offense was ruled out.
    Yes, one has the distinct impression a committee was involved there.

    Btw, why the apostrophe? The Day doesn't belong to anyone. So it's simply Fathers Day (the day to think about Fathers). No?
    No. It's like All Saints' Day.
    COD has it as Father's, presumably as the day dedicated to the father one happens to have.
    Yes it’s Father’s Day, even though that is counterintuitive. You can argue it is a day for an individual - your father. I’d rather it was plural possessive, but it just isn’t.
    Modern Father's day is in part modelled on Mother's day, which was created by Anna Jarvis.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20080514130408/http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=c942370c-cdbb-43b2-af59-71ad4b546854

    In 1912, Jarvis incorporated her own association, trademarked the white carnation and the phrases "second Sunday in May" and "Mother's Day". She was specific about the location of the apostrophe; it was to be a singular possessive, for each family to honour their mother, not a plural possessive commemorating all mothers in the world.
    Excuse me.

    It is not 'Mother's Day'. In Britain it is 'Mothering Sunday' and it dates back to the 16th century at least. In Britain it was reinvigorated by Constance Penswick-Smith, daughter of the vicar of Coddington church where my wife and I were married.

    We will have none of your colonial rubbish over here thankyou very much.
    And if you believe that, you’ll believe in Santa Claus.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,460
    EPG said:
    Surely the whole point of the Conservative Party (or one of its whole points, possibly at loggerheads with other whole points) is to conserve ancient practices like restricted Sunday trading, Brown Windsor Soup and the great British sausage. In any case, Europe's leading economy closes Sundays, and if it is good enough for Germany...
    https://www.berlin.de/en/tourism/travel-information/1740536-2862820-shopping-hours-sunday-shopping.en.html
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,460

    The Reading terrorist suspect was only released from prison two weeks ago.after serving less than half of a 28 month sentence.

    To the extent he was radicalised in prison, one dreads to think what he might have done after another 14 months.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 2,958
    eadric said:

    Jonathan said:

    eadric said:

    America is stripping away its history

    Mount Rushmore will present a challenge.
    Amazingly, I now think it possible they will attempt to destroy it, as it commemorates:

    Thomas Jefferson, a slave owner: his statues have already come down
    George Washington, a slave owner: his statue was toppled in Oregon
    Abraham Lincoln, a racist: his statues have been defaced in several places
    Theodore Roosevelt: a "colonialist" - his statue is now departing NYC

    That's a lot of icons begging to be broken
    Roosevelt was also a eugenicist and a racist, promoting for example sterilisation for various undesirable/inferior groups. Not untypical for Establishment men of his generation.

    He, and many others, eg Churchill have been romanticised and ruthlessly exploited by conservative forces. Their reputations will only be (partially) restored when we accept a rounded analysis of their lives, and stop trying to depict them as saints or heroes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 26,620
    Yet another successful and articulate black person distancing herself from those who can only see themselves as victims:
  • TimTTimT Posts: 779
    OGH, there are three possible ways out - in addition to a palliative and a vaccine, we could develop a cure (i.e. something that kills the virus, rather than treating the symptoms or preventing infection)
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 2,971
    isam said:

    Chris said:

    isam said:

    A moving header. A bug, deadly to those with underlying conditions, floating around everywhere would have been a sci-fi movie a year ago and now it's people's reality. My own father has barely been out in three months and is resigned to a much less sociable life until a vaccine is found.

    Given the 5.4% infection estimate from the ONS (down from the previous one) and the excess death figure of 64,500, the overall fatality rate in the UK is now looking like about 1.8%.

    To my mind the idea that the virus is something that only people with medical conditions need to be worried about became untenable quite a while ago.
    Quite a small percentage had no medical conditions


    Your table talks about deaths. Mike and Chris have been talking about people having a really nasty illness and hosptialisation. That counts too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 22,334
    eristdoof said:

    isam said:

    Chris said:

    isam said:

    A moving header. A bug, deadly to those with underlying conditions, floating around everywhere would have been a sci-fi movie a year ago and now it's people's reality. My own father has barely been out in three months and is resigned to a much less sociable life until a vaccine is found.

    Given the 5.4% infection estimate from the ONS (down from the previous one) and the excess death figure of 64,500, the overall fatality rate in the UK is now looking like about 1.8%.

    To my mind the idea that the virus is something that only people with medical conditions need to be worried about became untenable quite a while ago.
    Quite a small percentage had no medical conditions


    Your table talks about deaths. Mike and Chris have been talking about people having a really nasty illness and hosptialisation. That counts too.
    There are also significant numbers who get mild disease, but then seem to suffer various kinds of long lasting post viral syndromes along 5he lines of severe ME.
    This is for now poorly understood, and we have no idea for how long it might last.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/covid-19-coronavirus-longterm-symptoms-months/612679/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,365
    eristdoof said:

    isam said:

    Chris said:

    isam said:

    A moving header. A bug, deadly to those with underlying conditions, floating around everywhere would have been a sci-fi movie a year ago and now it's people's reality. My own father has barely been out in three months and is resigned to a much less sociable life until a vaccine is found.

    Given the 5.4% infection estimate from the ONS (down from the previous one) and the excess death figure of 64,500, the overall fatality rate in the UK is now looking like about 1.8%.

    To my mind the idea that the virus is something that only people with medical conditions need to be worried about became untenable quite a while ago.
    Quite a small percentage had no medical conditions


    Your table talks about deaths. Mike and Chris have been talking about people having a really nasty illness and hosptialisation. That counts too.
    Also "underlying conditions" are very common in the general population. 50% of over 65's in the UK have hypertension for example.
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