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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The lockdown is being eased from July 4th but the virus has no

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  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    MaxPB said:
    I don't think that is any excuse for putting forward a joke candidate.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Tempers rising, let's watch Russians put out a fire with a nuke instead

    https://twitter.com/atomicarchive/status/1275182823947882501?s=19

    On the subject of nuclear explosions, do you know what the fastest man made object is (or was)?
    Is this going to be a racist sexist and generally reprehensible joke?
    It was a steel plate on the Pascal-B test. Sometimes described as the fastest manhole cover in history.
    That’s not much of a punchline.

    But maybe if I heard you tell it over a pint.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,781
    rcs1000 said:
    Oh ffs! Retired GP and failed/disgraced minister in a senior trade role that British business depends on.You could not make up the state of amateurishness that our political life has become. Well I guess having an ex-polemicist liar as PM we really are in the age of "having enough of experts"!
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,940
    It’s fizzling out, isn’t it?

    Very low numbers for a Tuesday.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    rpjs said:

    eadric said:

    IanB2 said:

    eadric said:

    IanB2 said:

    eadric said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ave_it said:

    eadric said:

    American cases are surging, and have been for some time, especially in the South.

    And yet, deaths are still gently but steadily declining.

    I know "death" is a lagging indicator, but still. I am starting to wonder if the virus simply weakens, after a while. Or there is a hidden reservoir of healthy resistance.

    I think people become much more cautious and are aware of the risks.
    I have spoken with two people who I see regularly for beers. One is 70+ and the other is shielding. Neither will be rushing back to the pub.
    Which likely answers Sean's question about the apparent lower death rates in the US.
    Sigh. I am not SeanT.
    Did I say you were ?
    You implied it, and, to be honest, it is getting boring. Trying to identify or misidentify people on a site who clearly prefer to be anonymous is simply bad manners, and it puts people off contributing in the end. Stop, please. Thanks
    Best advice to anyone seeking to remain anonymous is to stop reposting those posts that identify you with transparently false denials.
    Whatever. I asked nicely. Please stop now. Thanks
    People will stop challenging you if you stop denying (and hence reposting) the obvious. Just ignore it, like they told you at school.
    I am not SeanT. Now please stop. Thanks.
    Correct! I am in fact SeanT. I even have a 20-something Corbynista wife to prove it!
    I am SeanT and so is my wife
    My wife is a 40-something Corbynista so I myst be SeanT twice over!
    I'm SeanT and so's my wife.

  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    Carnyx said:

    Is that the Jamie Glackin who was convenor of SLAB till a few years back?
    dr_spyn said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Brave call to reopen campsites. The shared spaces - toilets and wash fascilities especially - look guaranteed to be coronavirus hotspots.

    Looks like I'll be going to Cornwall in August, though. I wonder how the locals will react to the influx. There have been a lot of reports that they don't want anyone there.

    So we're going from zero to group wash facilities open with no "Visit your own static but no other site facilities" intermediate step ?
    To be fair, ample hand washing facilities in communal ablutions, indeed that is their purpose.
    I don't know what they are like nowadays, but my memory of such facilities in the 1960s and 1970s was of cold damp concrete shacks - rather like meat packing factories ...
    There are fewer of the damp, cold concrete shacks, with only cold running water. Many sites have heated shower blocks, and some of the better ones have fridges. Though wild camping in Scotland still presents a problem if you forget to pack a trowel and something for the midges.

    I still have my aluminium trowel and chemical-impregnated headnet ...
    Stayed for a couple of nights at a campsite at Glen Brittle about 25 years ago, haven't forgotten the sunset, the reflection of the moon on the bay and most of all the black swarm of midges on my anorak first thing in the morning when I left the tent.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:
    I don't think that is any excuse for putting forward a joke candidate.
    It's for domestic politics, giving the nod to Fox will get Boris brexit votes for whatever compromise he's about to produce for the trade deal on fishing and LPF.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,963
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:
    I don't think that is any excuse for putting forward a joke candidate.
    The problem is that the other two options (Lord Mandelson and Osbourne) would have a decent chance but Boris never forgets slights and grudges.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,781
    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eadric said:

    IanB2 said:

    eadric said:

    IanB2 said:

    eadric said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ave_it said:

    eadric said:

    American cases are surging, and have been for some time, especially in the South.

    And yet, deaths are still gently but steadily declining.

    I know "death" is a lagging indicator, but still. I am starting to wonder if the virus simply weakens, after a while. Or there is a hidden reservoir of healthy resistance.

    I think people become much more cautious and are aware of the risks.
    I have spoken with two people who I see regularly for beers. One is 70+ and the other is shielding. Neither will be rushing back to the pub.
    Which likely answers Sean's question about the apparent lower death rates in the US.
    Sigh. I am not SeanT.
    Did I say you were ?
    You implied it, and, to be honest, it is getting boring. Trying to identify or misidentify people on a site who clearly prefer to be anonymous is simply bad manners, and it puts people off contributing in the end. Stop, please. Thanks
    Best advice to anyone seeking to remain anonymous is to stop reposting those posts that identify you with transparently false denials.
    Whatever. I asked nicely. Please stop now. Thanks
    People will stop challenging you if you stop denying (and hence reposting) the obvious. Just ignore it, like they told you at school.
    I am not SeanT. Now please stop. Thanks.
    Correct! I am in fact SeanT. I even have a 20-something Corbynista wife to...here prove it!
    I am SeanT and so is my wife
    My wife is a 40-something Corbynista so I myst be SeanT twice over!
    I'm SeanT and so's my wife.

    Must be an echo in here, must be an echo in here.....in here
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    It’s fizzling out, isn’t it?

    Very low numbers for a Tuesday.

    Yes. Without knowing the care home/community split in deaths and how much backdating there is in that figure using the last 7 days English hospital deaths makes sense and that was just 43 from today's release. A very low number for a Tuesday and in line with Italy, France and other major European countries.
  • Options
    ABZABZ Posts: 441
    Carnyx said:

    ABZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Is it a "U-turn" when Nicola does it, or is that only Boris?

    https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1275423556587921413?s=20

    It's about getting within shouting distance of eliminating the virus and carrying the population with you. Sturgeon is managing it, BJ and his minions not so much.

    https://twitter.com/TonyMcKelvie/status/1275399046103007232?s=20
    So when she was wittering about how we couldn't follow England with the first relaxation measures because the R rate was higher in Scotland she was (a) ignorant (b) lying (c) indifferent to the economic consequences but keen to play politics or (d) all of the above?
    I know the effort of waking up every morning in the full expectation that Sturgeon and the SNP are about to have their 13 year long honeymoon ended by the voters is frustrating, but calm down dear.

    Your ability to to be eternally Panglossian about the disaster presided over by the podgy Etonian mess while perpetually Eeyoreing about anything done in Scotland really is one of the wonders of nature.
    I thought they did have their honeymoon ended by the Once-in-a-Generation Independence referendum? The Scots are kind hearted folk though, they have given the SNP the run of the glorified County Council as a kind of consolation prize.
    And yet those differences in the figures are stunning. THe media have not been discussing this. I am horrified at the magnitude of the discrepancy. What is causing it?
    A possible explanation:

    1. Scotland had fewer active cases at the time lockdown started than many parts of England. Hard to know for certain given the lack of testing at the time but the data are not inconsistent with this.

    2. Both Scotland and the SW of England (which also, bar a specific and controlled outbreak in Devon, had similarly few cases at the start of the outbreak) have seen similar reductions in deaths and cases over the last few weeks (actually the average in SW England is perhaps lower than Scotland). The number of cases / fatalities is higher elsewhere in specific parts of England / Wales.

    3. The excess of deaths and the higher R in Scotland prior to mid May was largely driven by nursing homes cases (47% of COVID19 deaths in Scotland have been in nursing homes, as per the latest NRS report; this compares to 29.7% in England and Wales as per the ONS report from this morning). As a measure, R, is very sensitive to such outbreaks. Once these nursing home cases were finally under control the community cases in Scotland were at such a low rate that the deaths fell off very quickly. As mentioned above, the fall off in SW England has been highly similar.

    4. The real scandal (arguably even more of a scandal if there were indeed a smaller number of initial cases) was the way infected patients were moved from hospitals back to nursing homes. This has been awful in both Scotland and England.

    Thank you - some good points and questions (though the previous English underrrporting of covid deaths could affect the comparative nursing home ratios, of course). It will be very interesting to see what develops with study.
    I think the ONS / NRS numbers are quite reliable though (certainly more than the daily reported figures in Holyrood / Westminster), so the percentages should be pretty comparable and now rather unlikely to change much.

    I'd also guess that the lack of hospital beds (relative to, say, Germany), and subsequent decision to send elderly and infected patients back to nursing homes will be heavily criticised in retrospective studies, both in Scotland and England...

  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:
    I don't think that is any excuse for putting forward a joke candidate.
    The problem is that the other two options (Lord Mandelson and Osbourne) would have a decent chance but Boris never forgets slights and grudges.
    No, we could put Adam Smith forwards and not get it. The quality of candidate is irrelevant to getting the role.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721

    rcs1000 said:
    Oh ffs! Retired GP and failed/disgraced minister in a senior trade role that British business depends on.You could not make up the state of amateurishness that our political life has become. Well I guess having an ex-polemicist liar as PM we really are in the age of "having enough of experts"!
    Liam Fox, for all his faults, was briefly referred to as one of the people driven sane by Brexit, given he resiled from a few of the most hardcore Brexity positions, so I'd assume you'd be inclined to be generous.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,672
    dr_spyn said:

    Carnyx said:

    Is that the Jamie Glackin who was convenor of SLAB till a few years back?
    dr_spyn said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Brave call to reopen campsites. The shared spaces - toilets and wash fascilities especially - look guaranteed to be coronavirus hotspots.

    Looks like I'll be going to Cornwall in August, though. I wonder how the locals will react to the influx. There have been a lot of reports that they don't want anyone there.

    So we're going from zero to group wash facilities open with no "Visit your own static but no other site facilities" intermediate step ?
    To be fair, ample hand washing facilities in communal ablutions, indeed that is their purpose.
    I don't know what they are like nowadays, but my memory of such facilities in the 1960s and 1970s was of cold damp concrete shacks - rather like meat packing factories ...
    There are fewer of the damp, cold concrete shacks, with only cold running water. Many sites have heated shower blocks, and some of the better ones have fridges. Though wild camping in Scotland still presents a problem if you forget to pack a trowel and something for the midges.

    I still have my aluminium trowel and chemical-impregnated headnet ...
    Stayed for a couple of nights at a campsite at Glen Brittle about 25 years ago, haven't forgotten the sunset, the reflection of the moon on the bay and most of all the black swarm of midges on my anorak first thing in the morning when I left the tent.
    The worst midges I ever saw (with clegs to do the heavy lifting and trying to drill through my oilskin) were on Rum - of course visible from that bay - but Skye sure comes a close second.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,559
    What's wrong with a banner saying "White Lives Matter"?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,915
    justin124 said:

    Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.

    If it's anything like campsites it's zero to max in one fell swoop.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,100
    kinabalu said:

    eadric said:


    I must have missed the bit where you set up politicalbetting.com and established all the rules, and also the moment when you established a secret telepathic link to all the commenters so you could know what they all think at any given moment.

    If you want to knock yourself out, you pompous old bladder, why not have a poll of the commenters and lurkers, and see if they want people to cease commenting and remain silent, if they can't reveal their identities?

    You cannot be SeanT by simple logic

    - I never agree with SeanT on anything.
    - I have now wound up agreeing with you twice
    - You cannot therefore be Sean

    Personally speaking, whilst I do reveal bits of my life on here, I am careful about what I reveal and I have changed one or two minor details for my own privacy. Nonetheless, what I have disclosed to other PBers via email or PM, I trust them to keep it private as I do on their behalf for information they have disclosed to me.
    No-one seems to give a rats ass about my identity.

    Hurtful.
    I always assumed you were an heir to the Heinz fortune.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Tempers rising, let's watch Russians put out a fire with a nuke instead

    https://twitter.com/atomicarchive/status/1275182823947882501?s=19

    On the subject of nuclear explosions, do you know what the fastest man made object is (or was)?
    Is this going to be a racist sexist and generally reprehensible joke?
    No.

    it's an interesting factoid.

    If you want a racist, sexist, and generally reprehensible joke, I can do that too. But as this is a family website, I tend not to do that kind of thing.
    ☺ - Yesterday we managed to spend ages defining what a reprehensible joke was without anybody cracking and doing one. Very impressive.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    Pulpstar said:

    justin124 said:

    Is it clear that all pubs in England can open from 4th July? There had been suggestions that only those with garden areas etc would be permiited to do so initially.

    If it's anything like campsites it's zero to max in one fell swoop.
    That's what happens when the media complain about measures being too confusing.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,119
    Andy_JS said:

    I don't think there's going to be another national lockdown, no matter what the circumstances. It's too damaging to society.

    I suppose that was very much the reasoning of the government in early March.

    As a result we've have a three-month lockdown and 65,000 people have died.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,527
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Tempers rising, let's watch Russians put out a fire with a nuke instead

    https://twitter.com/atomicarchive/status/1275182823947882501?s=19

    On the subject of nuclear explosions, do you know what the fastest man made object is (or was)?
    Relative to the earth ?
    The Parker Solar Probe, I believe.
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    Andy_JS said:

    What's wrong with a banner saying "White Lives Matter"?

    Careful, several PB grandees will now have to give interviews saying they're embarrassed, your comments are ignorant (possibly the most over-used word in the world right now), and that you should 'educate yourself'.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Andy_JS said:

    What's wrong with a banner saying "White Lives Matter"?

    The guy who did that will soon find out. He will be hounded by the left, investigated by the police, banned for life by the club he apparently supports and sacked from his job.

    They will turn him into a grease spot
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,037
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Tempers rising, let's watch Russians put out a fire with a nuke instead

    https://twitter.com/atomicarchive/status/1275182823947882501?s=19

    On the subject of nuclear explosions, do you know what the fastest man made object is (or was)?
    Is this going to be a racist sexist and generally reprehensible joke?
    It was a steel plate on the Pascal-B test. Sometimes described as the fastest manhole cover in history.
    That’s not much of a punchline.

    But maybe if I heard you tell it over a pint.
    Perhaps noted opponent of nuclear explosions and aficionado of manhole covers Jeremy Corbyn could be roped into it?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:
    I don't think that is any excuse for putting forward a joke candidate.
    It's for domestic politics, giving the nod to Fox will get Boris brexit votes for whatever compromise he's about to produce for the trade deal on fishing and LPF.
    If I were choosing in a vacuum, I think I'd go with Mandelson. He's as personally foolish as Fox, but rather more capable.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    rcs1000 said:
    Oh ffs! Retired GP and failed/disgraced minister in a senior trade role that British business depends on.You could not make up the state of amateurishness that our political life has become. Well I guess having an ex-polemicist liar as PM we really are in the age of "having enough of experts"!
    Thinking man's Brexiteer though. Him and Richard Tyndall.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    kinabalu said:

    eadric said:


    I must have missed the bit where you set up politicalbetting.com and established all the rules, and also the moment when you established a secret telepathic link to all the commenters so you could know what they all think at any given moment.

    If you want to knock yourself out, you pompous old bladder, why not have a poll of the commenters and lurkers, and see if they want people to cease commenting and remain silent, if they can't reveal their identities?

    You cannot be SeanT by simple logic

    - I never agree with SeanT on anything.
    - I have now wound up agreeing with you twice
    - You cannot therefore be Sean

    Personally speaking, whilst I do reveal bits of my life on here, I am careful about what I reveal and I have changed one or two minor details for my own privacy. Nonetheless, what I have disclosed to other PBers via email or PM, I trust them to keep it private as I do on their behalf for information they have disclosed to me.
    No-one seems to give a rats ass about my identity.

    Hurtful.
    I always assumed you were an heir to the Heinz fortune.
    Only wealthy people or their offspring can afford politics like Kinabalu's.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:
    I don't think that is any excuse for putting forward a joke candidate.
    The problem is that the other two options (Lord Mandelson and Osbourne) would have a decent chance but Boris never forgets slights and grudges.
    No, we could put Adam Smith forwards and not get it. The quality of candidate is irrelevant to getting the role.
    I think Mandelson could get it, you know. He might well get US support, because he's not from the EU and Trump remembers his friends. While as a Remain campaigner, he would probably be acceptable to the Europeans.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Alistair said:

    Tempers rising, let's watch Russians put out a fire with a nuke instead

    https://twitter.com/atomicarchive/status/1275182823947882501?s=19

    Let's not give Trump ideas...
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    maaarsh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's wrong with a banner saying "White Lives Matter"?

    Careful, several PB grandees will now have to give interviews saying they're embarrassed, your comments are ignorant (possibly the most over-used word in the world right now), and that you should 'educate yourself'.
    Well exactly. But I wouldn't call myself a "PB grandee" so I will pass this time.

    Speaking of which - a real grandee - have not seen @AlastairMeeks for quite a while. Hope all well there.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    So, does this mean we should all celebrate July 4 as Independence from CV-19 day?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Ladbrokes have improved the phrasing of their Hamilton special.

    Interestingly, my early bet has been suspended (as have many of my other bets...) but the wording's unchanged. Whilst clumsily worded, I think it'd be surprising if he gets a podium at the first race and it pays out, but we'll see.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    maaarsh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's wrong with a banner saying "White Lives Matter"?

    Careful, several PB grandees will now have to give interviews saying they're embarrassed, your comments are ignorant (possibly the most over-used word in the world right now), and that you should 'educate yourself'.
    It used to be said that in England it didn't much matter what you did, so long as you didn't frighten the horses. And that's what the silly whatsit did.
    Of course Black Lives Matter, especially in an American context where apparently they matter less than white ones. And it's in the grand tradition of Lancashire mill towns to stand together with the downtrodden, as they did 140 years ago.

    And, to save anyone posting 'Ah but the Guardian!' I know. Everyone's got something in their history of which they're not proud. I've not found anyone in my family tree to be ashamed of yet, but there are one or two who seem a bit 'edgy'.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    rcs1000 said:

    So, does this mean we should all celebrate July 4 as Independence from CV-19 day?

    Yes. By going to the pub.
  • Options
    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,889
    Andy_JS said:

    What's wrong with a banner saying "White Lives Matter"?

    Troll
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    kinabalu said:

    eadric said:


    I must have missed the bit where you set up politicalbetting.com and established all the rules, and also the moment when you established a secret telepathic link to all the commenters so you could know what they all think at any given moment.

    If you want to knock yourself out, you pompous old bladder, why not have a poll of the commenters and lurkers, and see if they want people to cease commenting and remain silent, if they can't reveal their identities?

    You cannot be SeanT by simple logic

    - I never agree with SeanT on anything.
    - I have now wound up agreeing with you twice
    - You cannot therefore be Sean

    Personally speaking, whilst I do reveal bits of my life on here, I am careful about what I reveal and I have changed one or two minor details for my own privacy. Nonetheless, what I have disclosed to other PBers via email or PM, I trust them to keep it private as I do on their behalf for information they have disclosed to me.
    No-one seems to give a rats ass about my identity.

    Hurtful.
    I always assumed you were an heir to the Heinz fortune.
    Would be wonderful but alas it's the opposite end of the scale - all I'm getting is a sheepskin jacket and a set of decanters.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    kinabalu said:

    maaarsh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's wrong with a banner saying "White Lives Matter"?

    Careful, several PB grandees will now have to give interviews saying they're embarrassed, your comments are ignorant (possibly the most over-used word in the world right now), and that you should 'educate yourself'.
    Well exactly. But I wouldn't call myself a "PB grandee" so I will pass this time.

    Speaking of which - a real grandee - have not seen @AlastairMeeks for quite a while. Hope all well there.
    Have you noticed how @AlisairMeeks and @eadric are never on at the same time? It seems an awful coincidence, no?
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Andy_JS said:

    What's wrong with a banner saying "White Lives Matter"?

    The guy who did that will soon find out. He will be hounded by the left, investigated by the police, banned for life by the club he apparently supports and sacked from his job.

    They will turn him into a grease spot
    The Mirror said the man that arranged it , had a selfie with Tommy Robsinson on his Facebook site , which has since been deleted.
    Also the comment that after the killings in Reading of 3 white men, he would not apologise .

    I guess a supporter of the far right .
  • Options
    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,913
    eadric said:

    Ave_it said:

    eadric said:

    American cases are surging, and have been for some time, especially in the South.

    And yet, deaths are still gently but steadily declining.

    I know "death" is a lagging indicator, but still. I am starting to wonder if the virus simply weakens, after a while. Or there is a hidden reservoir of healthy resistance.

    I think people become much more cautious and are aware of the risks.
    I have spoken with two people who I see regularly for beers. One is 70+ and the other is shielding. Neither will be rushing back to the pub.
    Under 30s are gagging for it, tho

    Let's hope that pubs can survive on the trade of the under 30s then
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,037
    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,940
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    maaarsh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's wrong with a banner saying "White Lives Matter"?

    Careful, several PB grandees will now have to give interviews saying they're embarrassed, your comments are ignorant (possibly the most over-used word in the world right now), and that you should 'educate yourself'.
    Well exactly. But I wouldn't call myself a "PB grandee" so I will pass this time.

    Speaking of which - a real grandee - have not seen @AlastairMeeks for quite a while. Hope all well there.
    Have you noticed how @AlisairMeeks and @eadric are never on at the same time? It seems an awful coincidence, no?
    I haven't seen @TheLastBoyScout since Eadric arrived on the scene...
  • Options
    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,889

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Tempers rising, let's watch Russians put out a fire with a nuke instead

    https://twitter.com/atomicarchive/status/1275182823947882501?s=19

    On the subject of nuclear explosions, do you know what the fastest man made object is (or was)?
    Is this going to be a racist sexist and generally reprehensible joke?
    It was a steel plate on the Pascal-B test. Sometimes described as the fastest manhole cover in history.
    I'm pretty sure some of the particles they produce at CERN do not naturally occur on earth and so are man made, and I'm damn sure they travel much faster than a steel plate ever has.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    kinabalu said:

    eadric said:


    I must have missed the bit where you set up politicalbetting.com and established all the rules, and also the moment when you established a secret telepathic link to all the commenters so you could know what they all think at any given moment.

    If you want to knock yourself out, you pompous old bladder, why not have a poll of the commenters and lurkers, and see if they want people to cease commenting and remain silent, if they can't reveal their identities?

    You cannot be SeanT by simple logic

    - I never agree with SeanT on anything.
    - I have now wound up agreeing with you twice
    - You cannot therefore be Sean

    Personally speaking, whilst I do reveal bits of my life on here, I am careful about what I reveal and I have changed one or two minor details for my own privacy. Nonetheless, what I have disclosed to other PBers via email or PM, I trust them to keep it private as I do on their behalf for information they have disclosed to me.
    No-one seems to give a rats ass about my identity.

    Hurtful.
    I always assumed you were an heir to the Heinz fortune.
    Only wealthy people or their offspring can afford politics like Kinabalu's.
    Except I've had these politics in all my various circumstances - rich poor and in between.
  • Options
    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,889
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    maaarsh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's wrong with a banner saying "White Lives Matter"?

    Careful, several PB grandees will now have to give interviews saying they're embarrassed, your comments are ignorant (possibly the most over-used word in the world right now), and that you should 'educate yourself'.
    Well exactly. But I wouldn't call myself a "PB grandee" so I will pass this time.

    Speaking of which - a real grandee - have not seen @AlastairMeeks for quite a while. Hope all well there.
    Have you noticed how @AlisairMeeks and @eadric are never on at the same time? It seems an awful coincidence, no?
    I thought you have the means to check this out!
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,559
    "There are 185 billion reasons why no politician should consider a lockdown again
    The cost of saving 50,000 lives was dwarfed by the economic hit, according to analysis using Nice spending guidelines

    RUSSELL LYNCH
    ECONOMICS EDITOR"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/23/185-billion-reasons-no-politician-should-consider-lockdown/
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,273
    edited June 2020
    I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid

    He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support

    However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July

    Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.

    She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,527
    The Nixon tapes latest release - an entertaining account of Nixon's Supreme Court nomination of Rehnquist and Powell...

    ..."Mommy’s very mad,” said a crestfallen president of the United States.
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/21/pat-nixon-woman-supreme-court-311408
    ...“We really threw a bombshell at those [liberal] bastards” in Congress and the media, he told Mitchell.

    And “make sure to emphasize to all the Southerners that Rehnquist is a reactionary bastard, which I hope to Christ he is,” Nixon said, in a segment of the tape that has been previously opened....
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,885
    Carnyx said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Carnyx said:

    Is that the Jamie Glackin who was convenor of SLAB till a few years back?
    dr_spyn said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Brave call to reopen campsites. The shared spaces - toilets and wash fascilities especially - look guaranteed to be coronavirus hotspots.

    Looks like I'll be going to Cornwall in August, though. I wonder how the locals will react to the influx. There have been a lot of reports that they don't want anyone there.

    So we're going from zero to group wash facilities open with no "Visit your own static but no other site facilities" intermediate step ?
    To be fair, ample hand washing facilities in communal ablutions, indeed that is their purpose.
    I don't know what they are like nowadays, but my memory of such facilities in the 1960s and 1970s was of cold damp concrete shacks - rather like meat packing factories ...
    There are fewer of the damp, cold concrete shacks, with only cold running water. Many sites have heated shower blocks, and some of the better ones have fridges. Though wild camping in Scotland still presents a problem if you forget to pack a trowel and something for the midges.

    I still have my aluminium trowel and chemical-impregnated headnet ...
    Stayed for a couple of nights at a campsite at Glen Brittle about 25 years ago, haven't forgotten the sunset, the reflection of the moon on the bay and most of all the black swarm of midges on my anorak first thing in the morning when I left the tent.
    The worst midges I ever saw (with clegs to do the heavy lifting and trying to drill through my oilskin) were on Rum - of course visible from that bay - but Skye sure comes a close second.
    The only thing to pack for midges is a breeze. And a headnet for when you forget one. Or go in May (not much use now).

    I've had a few memorable midge encounters, and Glen Brittle is quite low down the list as it isn't normally that bad.

    Crossing a wire bridge at 5am in Glen Nevis with no free hands is not fun.
    Queueing for a phone box (remember that?) at Shiel Bridge is the worst thing ever.

    These days I worry more about the deer ticks that carry Lyme, as they've increased in numbers massively in the last decade or so. Midges are annoying but not usually fatal.

    I find wild campsites are much more fun than organised ones, although do remember that trowel.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    maaarsh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's wrong with a banner saying "White Lives Matter"?

    Careful, several PB grandees will now have to give interviews saying they're embarrassed, your comments are ignorant (possibly the most over-used word in the world right now), and that you should 'educate yourself'.
    Well exactly. But I wouldn't call myself a "PB grandee" so I will pass this time.

    Speaking of which - a real grandee - have not seen @AlastairMeeks for quite a while. Hope all well there.
    Have you noticed how @AlisairMeeks and @eadric are never on at the same time? It seems an awful coincidence, no?
    I don't think I've ever seen AlisairMeeks. Is he any relation to @AlastairMeeks ?
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,273

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,781
    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:
    Oh ffs! Retired GP and failed/disgraced minister in a senior trade role that British business depends on.You could not make up the state of amateurishness that our political life has become. Well I guess having an ex-polemicist liar as PM we really are in the age of "having enough of experts"!
    Thinking man's Brexiteer though. Him and Richard Tyndall.
    Other than Richard Tyndall it is a low bar. A bit like saying the thinking man's Sun reader or Chelsea supporter
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    MaxPB said:

    https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1275443993585741829?s=20

    Non-weekend day with under 1000 new cases. The reopening coming just on time with this level of reduction.

    Thats an astonishing number of tests
    300k daily tests is truly astonishing. Absolutely no reason we can't keep this under control with track and trace with that level of daily testing.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
    That's what they said about Brexit.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    Andy_JS said:

    What's wrong with a banner saying "White Lives Matter"?

    I'm not doing it, Andy. I meant what I said. I'm just not. I think you know the answer anyway.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Andy_JS said:

    "There are 185 billion reasons why no politician should consider a lockdown again
    The cost of saving 50,000 lives was dwarfed by the economic hit, according to analysis using Nice spending guidelines

    RUSSELL LYNCH
    ECONOMICS EDITOR"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/23/185-billion-reasons-no-politician-should-consider-lockdown/

    Didn't it save a lot more? The predictions were for hundreds of thousands.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,431
    Andy_JS said:

    "There are 185 billion reasons why no politician should consider a lockdown again
    The cost of saving 50,000 lives was dwarfed by the economic hit, according to analysis using Nice spending guidelines

    RUSSELL LYNCH
    ECONOMICS EDITOR"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/23/185-billion-reasons-no-politician-should-consider-lockdown/

    The problem with that (from the article, I haven't read the source paper/report) is that it seems to assume no economic costs without lockdown. Even at the level of deaths we've had, people are not necessarily rushing back to business as usual. Add more deaths with no enforced lockdown and people would be changing behaviours anyway (look at Sweden, with much less enforced). If the report/paper also fails to estimate the economic hit under a no lockdown scenario then it's somewhat lacking.

    (Note, I don't necessarily disagree with the conclusion - lockdown is harsh medicine and we may look back in future years and decide it was not the best course, but I do still think it was the right thing to do at the time with the information available).
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid

    He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support

    However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July

    Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.

    She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris

    What's this "feart" business I keep seeing regarding Sturgeon?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,037
    edited June 2020

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
    I look forward to your trenchant criticism of BJ when he once again obstructs Indy Ref 2 after next year's Holyrood election. Of course it might tip him over the edge into rediscovering his balls and his honour, but the precedents aren't good.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Selebian said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "There are 185 billion reasons why no politician should consider a lockdown again
    The cost of saving 50,000 lives was dwarfed by the economic hit, according to analysis using Nice spending guidelines

    RUSSELL LYNCH
    ECONOMICS EDITOR"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/23/185-billion-reasons-no-politician-should-consider-lockdown/

    The problem with that (from the article, I haven't read the source paper/report) is that it seems to assume no economic costs without lockdown. Even at the level of deaths we've had, people are not necessarily rushing back to business as usual. Add more deaths with no enforced lockdown and people would be changing behaviours anyway (look at Sweden, with much less enforced). If the report/paper also fails to estimate the economic hit under a no lockdown scenario then it's somewhat lacking.

    (Note, I don't necessarily disagree with the conclusion - lockdown is harsh medicine and we may look back in future years and decide it was not the best course, but I do still think it was the right thing to do at the time with the information available).
    Indeed. The economy might have been devastated more by inaction and paralysis than by what we did.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    eristdoof said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Tempers rising, let's watch Russians put out a fire with a nuke instead

    https://twitter.com/atomicarchive/status/1275182823947882501?s=19

    On the subject of nuclear explosions, do you know what the fastest man made object is (or was)?
    Is this going to be a racist sexist and generally reprehensible joke?
    It was a steel plate on the Pascal-B test. Sometimes described as the fastest manhole cover in history.
    I'm pretty sure some of the particles they produce at CERN do not naturally occur on earth and so are man made, and I'm damn sure they travel much faster than a steel plate ever has.
    Can they reasonably described as 'objects' though?
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Yorkcity said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's wrong with a banner saying "White Lives Matter"?

    The guy who did that will soon find out. He will be hounded by the left, investigated by the police, banned for life by the club he apparently supports and sacked from his job.

    They will turn him into a grease spot
    The Mirror said the man that arranged it , had a selfie with Tommy Robsinson on his Facebook site , which has since been deleted.
    Also the comment that after the killings in Reading of 3 white men, he would not apologise .

    I guess a supporter of the far right .
    Probably but I imagine the authorities have to tread carefully.

    after all, who thinks that white lives don't matter? is expressing the view that white lives don;t matter even legal? could it be construed as hate speech? In suppressing the view that white lives matter could the authorities be guilty of a racially agravated crime?
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,781

    I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid

    He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support

    However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July

    Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.

    She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris

    That will be a challenge for her. Much as I dislike her, she seems an intelligent woman (despite her backward looking nationalism). Following Boris requires any intelligent person to contact the local hospital and ask for a full frontal lobe lobotomy.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
    That's what they said about Brexit.
    (Although, to be fair, we might all be arguing about the economic impacts of Brexit now, were it not for CV-19.)
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    maaarsh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's wrong with a banner saying "White Lives Matter"?

    Careful, several PB grandees will now have to give interviews saying they're embarrassed, your comments are ignorant (possibly the most over-used word in the world right now), and that you should 'educate yourself'.
    Well exactly. But I wouldn't call myself a "PB grandee" so I will pass this time.

    Speaking of which - a real grandee - have not seen @AlastairMeeks for quite a while. Hope all well there.
    Have you noticed how @AlisairMeeks and @eadric are never on at the same time? It seems an awful coincidence, no?
    Ah so!

    Thus Meeks now about to return as Eadric checks out.

    I watch with great interest.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,672

    Carnyx said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Carnyx said:

    Is that the Jamie Glackin who was convenor of SLAB till a few years back?
    dr_spyn said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Brave call to reopen campsites. The shared spaces - toilets and wash fascilities especially - look guaranteed to be coronavirus hotspots.

    Looks like I'll be going to Cornwall in August, though. I wonder how the locals will react to the influx. There have been a lot of reports that they don't want anyone there.

    So we're going from zero to group wash facilities open with no "Visit your own static but no other site facilities" intermediate step ?
    To be fair, ample hand washing facilities in communal ablutions, indeed that is their purpose.
    I don't know what they are like nowadays, but my memory of such facilities in the 1960s and 1970s was of cold damp concrete shacks - rather like meat packing factories ...
    There are fewer of the damp, cold concrete shacks, with only cold running water. Many sites have heated shower blocks, and some of the better ones have fridges. Though wild camping in Scotland still presents a problem if you forget to pack a trowel and something for the midges.

    I still have my aluminium trowel and chemical-impregnated headnet ...
    Stayed for a couple of nights at a campsite at Glen Brittle about 25 years ago, haven't forgotten the sunset, the reflection of the moon on the bay and most of all the black swarm of midges on my anorak first thing in the morning when I left the tent.
    The worst midges I ever saw (with clegs to do the heavy lifting and trying to drill through my oilskin) were on Rum - of course visible from that bay - but Skye sure comes a close second.
    The only thing to pack for midges is a breeze. And a headnet for when you forget one. Or go in May (not much use now).

    I've had a few memorable midge encounters, and Glen Brittle is quite low down the list as it isn't normally that bad.

    Crossing a wire bridge at 5am in Glen Nevis with no free hands is not fun.
    Queueing for a phone box (remember that?) at Shiel Bridge is the worst thing ever.

    These days I worry more about the deer ticks that carry Lyme, as they've increased in numbers massively in the last decade or so. Midges are annoying but not usually fatal.

    I find wild campsites are much more fun than organised ones, although do remember that trowel.
    Quite. I would never go on holiday in the Highlands or the boggier Islands in July/August.

    Camping shops such as Tisos now sell tick removers alongside the midge repellent ...
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    edited June 2020

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:
    Oh ffs! Retired GP and failed/disgraced minister in a senior trade role that British business depends on.You could not make up the state of amateurishness that our political life has become. Well I guess having an ex-polemicist liar as PM we really are in the age of "having enough of experts"!
    Thinking man's Brexiteer though. Him and Richard Tyndall.
    Other than Richard Tyndall it is a low bar. A bit like saying the thinking man's Sun reader or Chelsea supporter
    Don't be ridiculous: there are reasonable (as in non zero) number of thinking Sun readers.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
    I look forward to your trenchant criticism of BJ when he once again obstructs Indy Ref 2 after next year's Holyrood election. Of course it might tip him over the edge into rediscovering his balls and his honour, but the precedents aren't good.
    He has the mandate as UK PM to reject it. Doing so may be counterproductive from a unionists perspective in the long-term but could also leave Scottish independence as a ticking timebomb to explode only when Labour next form the government.

    If the PM is a selfish cynic rejecting it would be the right thing to do from his perspective.
  • Options
    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,913
    edited June 2020

    Andy_JS said:

    What's wrong with a banner saying "White Lives Matter"?

    The guy who did that will soon find out. He will be hounded by the left, investigated by the police, banned for life by the club he apparently supports and sacked from his job.

    They will turn him into a grease spot
    He's been attacked from all quarters. In fact I haven't actually found much support for him anywhere.

    Trying to portray him as some sort of victim is a joke. He's one of Tommy Robinson's nasty little racist oiks. He's entitled to his opinion and his football club and others are perfectly entitled to tell him they don't want his sort being associated with them. I don't blame them
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,037
    kinabalu said:

    I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid

    He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support

    However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July

    Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.

    She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris

    What's this "feart" business I keep seeing regarding Sturgeon?
    It's implying that rather than courageously following BJ's course, Sturgeon has been supinely making her own mind up. It's almost like she's taken a knee to the welfare of Scotland!
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,273
    kinabalu said:

    I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid

    He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support

    However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July

    Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.

    She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris

    What's this "feart" business I keep seeing regarding Sturgeon?
    Scots for frightened
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
    That's what they said about Brexit.
    (Although, to be fair, we might all be arguing about the economic impacts of Brexit now, were it not for CV-19.)
    Indeed but the economy was supposed to be the reason why only Remain could win the referendum. Then Vote Leave upended that apple cart with the £350 million a week line.

    If the Scots can find their £350 million a week then they could definitely win an independence referendum. Especially if it isn't held for another decade until Labour win an election building resentment and fury by Yes supporters
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,273

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
    I look forward to your trenchant criticism of BJ when he once again obstructs Indy Ref 2 after next year's Holyrood election. Of course it might tip him over the edge into rediscovering his balls and his honour, but the precedents aren't good.
    You know I support indy2 if the SNP win Holyrood on a manifesto commitment
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,940

    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    maaarsh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What's wrong with a banner saying "White Lives Matter"?

    Careful, several PB grandees will now have to give interviews saying they're embarrassed, your comments are ignorant (possibly the most over-used word in the world right now), and that you should 'educate yourself'.
    Well exactly. But I wouldn't call myself a "PB grandee" so I will pass this time.

    Speaking of which - a real grandee - have not seen @AlastairMeeks for quite a while. Hope all well there.
    Have you noticed how @AlisairMeeks and @eadric are never on at the same time? It seems an awful coincidence, no?
    I don't think I've ever seen AlisairMeeks. Is he any relation to @AlastairMeeks ?
    No, he just has a similar name. Think Ben Stokes and Ben Foakes. Two different people.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,672

    kinabalu said:

    I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid

    He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support

    However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July

    Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.

    She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris

    What's this "feart" business I keep seeing regarding Sturgeon?
    It's implying that rather than courageously following BJ's course, Sturgeon has been supinely making her own mind up. It's almost like she's taken a knee to the welfare of Scotland!
    And yet when she made similar decisions to "England" on the same day (and necessarily earlier in the day, so as not to clash with the "UK"/"England" press conference at 5pm, she was decried by PBTories and their ilk in the media for trying to steal Mr Johnson's thunder. Poor lady can't win.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2020

    kinabalu said:

    I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid

    He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support

    However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July

    Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.

    She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris

    What's this "feart" business I keep seeing regarding Sturgeon?
    It's implying that rather than courageously following BJ's course, Sturgeon has been supinely making her own mind up. It's almost like she's taken a knee to the welfare of Scotland!
    Would it be distasteful to suggest she's put a knee on the neck of the Scottish economy?

    Given the Scottish summer ends earlier than the English one, staying shut for longer is going to do tremendously more damage to Scottish summer-based seasonal businesses than the damage already inflicted to English ones.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,672

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
    I look forward to your trenchant criticism of BJ when he once again obstructs Indy Ref 2 after next year's Holyrood election. Of course it might tip him over the edge into rediscovering his balls and his honour, but the precedents aren't good.
    You know I support indy2 if the SNP win Holyrood on a manifesto commitment
    But they already have, in conjunction with the Scots Greens, AND a majority of the Scots seats at Westminster ...
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,037

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
    I look forward to your trenchant criticism of BJ when he once again obstructs Indy Ref 2 after next year's Holyrood election. Of course it might tip him over the edge into rediscovering his balls and his honour, but the precedents aren't good.
    You know I support indy2 if the SNP win Holyrood on a manifesto commitment
    You also support BJ, so..
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,194
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,672

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
    I look forward to your trenchant criticism of BJ when he once again obstructs Indy Ref 2 after next year's Holyrood election. Of course it might tip him over the edge into rediscovering his balls and his honour, but the precedents aren't good.
    He has the mandate as UK PM to reject it. Doing so may be counterproductive from a unionists perspective in the long-term but could also leave Scottish independence as a ticking timebomb to explode only when Labour next form the government.

    If the PM is a selfish cynic rejecting it would be the right thing to do from his perspective.
    What mandate? Not in Scotland, he doesn't.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,273
    Carnyx said:

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
    I look forward to your trenchant criticism of BJ when he once again obstructs Indy Ref 2 after next year's Holyrood election. Of course it might tip him over the edge into rediscovering his balls and his honour, but the precedents aren't good.
    You know I support indy2 if the SNP win Holyrood on a manifesto commitment
    But they already have, in conjunction with the Scots Greens, AND a majority of the Scots seats at Westminster ...
    That is arguing for the impossible, get the majority next May
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,781

    rcs1000 said:

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
    That's what they said about Brexit.
    (Although, to be fair, we might all be arguing about the economic impacts of Brexit now, were it not for CV-19.)
    Indeed but the economy was supposed to be the reason why only Remain could win the referendum. Then Vote Leave upended that apple cart with the £350 million a week line.

    If the Scots can find their £350 million a week then they could definitely win an independence referendum. Especially if it isn't held for another decade until Labour win an election building resentment and fury by Yes supporters
    The Scots nats need to listen to Philip, not because he knows very much, but because he is a Brexit supporter and does know how to stoke up faux grievance and much division. Not convinced he will make much difference? Never mind, I am sure the Scots Nats will get some support from that great man of forward thinking and democracy who lives in the Kremlin. Bit like they got support from other tyrants and fascists in the past.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    kinabalu said:

    I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid

    He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support

    However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July

    Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.

    She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris

    What's this "feart" business I keep seeing regarding Sturgeon?
    Scots for frightened
    Ah, ok. It reminds me a bit of that thing that Thatcher used to say - "frit".

    Quite aggressive language.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,273

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
    I look forward to your trenchant criticism of BJ when he once again obstructs Indy Ref 2 after next year's Holyrood election. Of course it might tip him over the edge into rediscovering his balls and his honour, but the precedents aren't good.
    You know I support indy2 if the SNP win Holyrood on a manifesto commitment
    You also support BJ, so..
    Not on refusing indy2 if SNP succeed in May
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,672

    Carnyx said:

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
    I look forward to your trenchant criticism of BJ when he once again obstructs Indy Ref 2 after next year's Holyrood election. Of course it might tip him over the edge into rediscovering his balls and his honour, but the precedents aren't good.
    You know I support indy2 if the SNP win Holyrood on a manifesto commitment
    But they already have, in conjunction with the Scots Greens, AND a majority of the Scots seats at Westminster ...
    That is arguing for the impossible, get the majority next May
    I think you fail to grasp my point. It is that there IS a majority for independence at Holyrood right now, and has been for years, as the Scottish Greens also have that as a party policy.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,037
    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid

    He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support

    However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July

    Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.

    She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris

    What's this "feart" business I keep seeing regarding Sturgeon?
    It's implying that rather than courageously following BJ's course, Sturgeon has been supinely making her own mind up. It's almost like she's taken a knee to the welfare of Scotland!
    And yet when she made similar decisions to "England" on the same day (and necessarily earlier in the day, so as not to clash with the "UK"/"England" press conference at 5pm, she was decried by PBTories and their ilk in the media for trying to steal Mr Johnson's thunder. Poor lady can't win.
    'Poor lady can't win.'

    Except in Scotland evidently.

    Though one of the more entertaining Unionist rage memes (there are so many!) is about English progressives praising and giving credit to Sturgeon.
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    kinabalu said:

    I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid

    He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support

    However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July

    Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.

    She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris

    What's this "feart" business I keep seeing regarding Sturgeon?
    It's implying that rather than courageously following BJ's course, Sturgeon has been supinely making her own mind up. It's almost like she's taken a knee to the welfare of Scotland!
    Would it be distasteful to suggest she's put a knee on the neck of the Scottish economy?

    Given the Scottish summer ends earlier than the English one, staying shut for longer is going to do tremendously more damage to Scottish summer-based seasonal businesses than the damage already inflicted to English ones.
    what is this Scottish summer of which you speak????

    Ducks and runs
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Shelby County vs Holder is a top 10 worst Supreme Court decision of all time. Possibly top 5.
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347
    I did not realise that postive antibody tests are included in the daily positive numbers.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,273
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
    I look forward to your trenchant criticism of BJ when he once again obstructs Indy Ref 2 after next year's Holyrood election. Of course it might tip him over the edge into rediscovering his balls and his honour, but the precedents aren't good.
    You know I support indy2 if the SNP win Holyrood on a manifesto commitment
    But they already have, in conjunction with the Scots Greens, AND a majority of the Scots seats at Westminster ...
    That is arguing for the impossible, get the majority next May
    I think you fail to grasp my point. It is that there IS a majority for independence at Holyrood right now, and has been for years, as the Scottish Greens also have that as a party policy.
    You lost in 2014
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Carnyx said:

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
    I look forward to your trenchant criticism of BJ when he once again obstructs Indy Ref 2 after next year's Holyrood election. Of course it might tip him over the edge into rediscovering his balls and his honour, but the precedents aren't good.
    He has the mandate as UK PM to reject it. Doing so may be counterproductive from a unionists perspective in the long-term but could also leave Scottish independence as a ticking timebomb to explode only when Labour next form the government.

    If the PM is a selfish cynic rejecting it would be the right thing to do from his perspective.
    What mandate? Not in Scotland, he doesn't.
    He's UK Prime Minister not Scottish Prime Minister. He won a majority at Westminster on a platform of no second independence referendum and can whip that through the Commons.

    If the Scots want a second independence referendum they need a majority in the United Kingdom to tolerate it not just a majority in Holyrood. That may not be morally right but it is realpolitik.
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,885
    edited June 2020
    eristdoof said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    Tempers rising, let's watch Russians put out a fire with a nuke instead

    https://twitter.com/atomicarchive/status/1275182823947882501?s=19

    On the subject of nuclear explosions, do you know what the fastest man made object is (or was)?
    Is this going to be a racist sexist and generally reprehensible joke?
    It was a steel plate on the Pascal-B test. Sometimes described as the fastest manhole cover in history.
    I'm pretty sure some of the particles they produce at CERN do not naturally occur on earth and so are man made, and I'm damn sure they travel much faster than a steel plate ever has.
    I thought that there were Cosmic rays with much more energy than anything they produce at CERN? Hence everything they do is still within the bounds of 'nature'.

    You could definitely argue that some of their particles are man made though.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,672
    Floater said:

    kinabalu said:

    I have been away this afternoon but on returning note that the media seem quite supportive of Boris, which is the first time I think since he had covid

    He has made a bold decision and full marks to Starmer for his support

    However, Nicola is so 'feart' of making a decision she is prevaricating until the 2nd July while all the time Scots business is in suspension while in England businesses will be up and running for the 4th July

    Just looking across the Scottish press she is coming under quite a lot of criticism.

    She has received credit until recently but she could lose a lot of that if she does not quickly move and follow Boris

    What's this "feart" business I keep seeing regarding Sturgeon?
    It's implying that rather than courageously following BJ's course, Sturgeon has been supinely making her own mind up. It's almost like she's taken a knee to the welfare of Scotland!
    Would it be distasteful to suggest she's put a knee on the neck of the Scottish economy?

    Given the Scottish summer ends earlier than the English one, staying shut for longer is going to do tremendously more damage to Scottish summer-based seasonal businesses than the damage already inflicted to English ones.
    what is this Scottish summer of which you speak????

    Ducks and runs
    No need to duck. Actually, May and June, and September are perhaps the best times in the Highlands and Islands - July and August often being wet and midgy.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
    I look forward to your trenchant criticism of BJ when he once again obstructs Indy Ref 2 after next year's Holyrood election. Of course it might tip him over the edge into rediscovering his balls and his honour, but the precedents aren't good.
    You know I support indy2 if the SNP win Holyrood on a manifesto commitment
    But they already have, in conjunction with the Scots Greens, AND a majority of the Scots seats at Westminster ...
    That is arguing for the impossible, get the majority next May
    I think you fail to grasp my point. It is that there IS a majority for independence at Holyrood right now, and has been for years, as the Scottish Greens also have that as a party policy.
    You lost in 2014
    More importantly most likely their side lost in 2019.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,202
    dr_spyn said:

    LD - Wera Hobhouse drops out of race to lead party.

    https://twitter.com/iainjwatson/status/1275428715619647489

    Moran would be a disastrous choice as leader. Under her it’ll become a weird pressure group.
    DavidL said:

    Mr. L, sorry to hear about your daughter's situation, but at least she knew it was a stepping stone and had a saving mentality. Also, depending on her age/experience it could be handy have a recent reference when applying for other stuff.

    Indeed and thanks. She has had a difficult time since graduating and this is a blow.
    My sympathies to your daughter. My sons are facing the same issues.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cyclefree said:

    dr_spyn said:

    LD - Wera Hobhouse drops out of race to lead party.

    https://twitter.com/iainjwatson/status/1275428715619647489

    Moran would be a disastrous choice as leader. Under her it’ll become a weird pressure group.
    "become"?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    A Unionist writes.

    'Johnson’s failings erode case for the Union'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    There are about a dozen crunching body blows to the torso of the Union in there, not least of which are:

    'According to the Panelbase survey, 70 per cent of Scots under 34 favour independence. This is broadly in line with other recent polls. Most voters under 50 now support independence.

    That trend, rather more than the headline figures on Yes or No is what should keep Unionists awake at night. Increasingly, young Scots feel little real connection or affiliation with the UK or any sense, vague or not, of Britishness. For many of these younger voters, independence comes as naturally as unionism did to their grandparents. You might wish it otherwise but you cannot wish reality away.

    From which, once again, we might pause to note that the case for independence is not being won in Edinburgh so much as the argument for Union is being lost in London. As some of us have argued for some time, Boris Johnson is a calamity for unionism. It is not simply that he is incompetent — though he is and that scarcely helps — but that his government lacks the emotional bandwidth to understand the UK. If the SNP were asked to create the opponent of its dreams he would, I am afraid, bear a considerable resemblance to Boris Johnson.'

    https://tinyurl.com/yc4uclhx

    You will still lose indy 2.

    Its the economy stupid ( and no that is not directed at you )
    That's what they said about Brexit.
    Just realized. It's 23rd June. A baleful date and no mistake. I think there's a case for skipping it in future. Have two 22 Junes and then hop to the 24th.
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