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    isamisam Posts: 40,927
  • Options
    SurreySurrey Posts: 190
    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    Foxy said:

    This is one of the simplest and best moves to increase social mobility...Gove / Cummings were in favour of it before the blob shot it down, and I believe Labour were for it at the last GE.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1276624490458423296?s=20

    My medical School has rightly favoured post A level applications for some years. A lot of private schools over egg their predictions and state schools underestimate their brightest.
    Careful now, next you'll be saying private school pupils get excessive help with their coursework and a disproportionate number of students with reasons for getting extra time in exams and then there will be trouble.
    Parents aren't paying £10k per term for better teaching, that's for sure.
    I'm sure Robert Plomin could assert a "reason" for believing the receipt of better tuition is in large part decided by genes, just as he thinks the number of books on parental bookshelves is.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited June 2020
    isam said:

    Jelly & Ice cream Brixton stylee

    /twitter.com/1jmsho/status/1275960597419569155?s=20

    Then they had a game of kiss chase

    https://twitter.com/dijoni/status/1276334818343612417?s=20
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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,844
    isam said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Surrey said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Surrey said:

    Pagan2 said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Why aren't the UK's students tearing down/defacing statues anymore?

    Looks like it was just an excuse to get out of their parents houses during lockdown

    Are you disappointed its stopped?

    Maybe the slavers have gone and slippery slope arguments suggesting this was never going to stop was hysterical nonsense.
    Why would I be disappointed? You were the one cheering them on!

    The BLM rallys/riots haven't stopped, thats disappointing
    No I cheered a solitary one on. I cheered on a grand total of one.

    I was attacked by more people than I could count on here for that and was told in no uncertain terms it wouldn't stop at one illegally pulled down. That this was going to continue and continue.

    Instead its stopped as soon as it started. It started at one and it stopped at one. I was right and everyone who suggested this was some Pandora's Box that would be unending protests and pulling down of statues were wrong.
    No, it has lit the fuse for race riots and civil disorder

    https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1272023458839506944?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Michael_Heaver/status/1276059446393933824?s=20

    No it hasn't. Far right prats and civil disorder existed before this.
    Except the far right weren't at brixton where 15 police officer were injured were they.....no just the idiots you cheer for....the so peaceful BLM marxists
    The peaceful BLM event in Brixton was attended by about 30 people and ended at 7pm, long before the violence started.

    So they went there stirred the pot then ran away....whats your point?
    Don't blame one group of people for what another group of people do nearby several hours later just because many in both groups were black.
    If BLM hadn't stirred things up there probably wouldn't have been a riot. I notice you ignored my point that if someone like Farage had given a speech, left at 7pm and later there was a riot you would have no problem trying to blame him for it with typical hypocrisy
    If Farage gave a speech, left at 7pm and later kids were at a rave trying to drink and party I wouldn't try and link the two.
    Kids?

    The equivalent is Farage giving an anti immigration speech, leaving at 7pm then a massive gang of people beating up immigrants all night afterwards
    Well lets see whats BLM about oh yes the police killing of Floyd
    What did the so called kids in Brixton do...injure 15 police officers

    I really can't see a connection because my name is Phillip Thompson and I am turning leftie and make cretinous excuses for anyone I agree with
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    Barnesian said:


    You're enjoying this aren't you? So am I. Keep it up.

    I think the next SeanT should be black. That would really mix things up.
    He is not allowed to do that. I refer you to Mike Cleveland's comment about Cleveland (Catman's post downthread)
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,989

    Barnesian said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    People like Tim Walker have turned into the very people they depise e.g Nigel Farage. Constantly outraged about everything Brexit / Boris / government related.

    The UK government having a plane that looks presentable and flying the flag is what most countries have. I really fail to see the issue.

    Most countries? Governments having a plane displaying their flsg? I've lived in half a dozen countries, none of which had such a thing AFAIK. There's Air Force One, and after that I'm already struggling. Russia, perhaps? It's the sort of thing I can imagine Putin liking.
    Germany:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Adenauer_(aircraft)#:~:text=The Konrad Adenauer is a,Force at Köln Bonn Airport.


    Italy

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_transports_of_heads_of_state_and_government#/media/File:Airbus_A319-115X(CJ),_Italy_-_Air_Force_JP6283085.jpg

    Korea

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_transports_of_heads_of_state_and_government#/media/File:Airbus_A319-115X(CJ),_Italy_-_Air_Force_JP6283085.jpg

    Holland

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_transports_of_heads_of_state_and_government#/media/File:Government_of_the_Netherlands,_PH-GOV,_Boeing_737-700_(49580457533).jpg

    South Africa

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_transports_of_heads_of_state_and_government#/media/File:South_Africa_-_Air_Force_Boeing_737-7ED_BBJ_ZS-RSA_"Inkwazi"_(23447990265).jpg

    Spain

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_transports_of_heads_of_state_and_government#/media/File:Spanish_Air_Force,_T.22-1,_Airbus_A310-304_(35225030493).jpg

    I'm new here. Do you have some special issue with simple computing and Googling skills? I do not wish to be cruel
    You're not new though, nobody believes this bollocks Sean
    Your community does not seem very welcoming to a nervous neophyte. Nonetheless I shall persist
    You're enjoying this aren't you? So am I. Keep it up.
    I think the next SeanT should be black. That would really mix things up.
    The great thing is that the entertainment is free, a superb cast of characters, and very well written.

    But we shouldn't spoil the illusion or it may disappear, just like that.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Barnesian said:


    You're enjoying this aren't you? So am I. Keep it up.

    I think the next SeanT should be black. That would really mix things up.
    He is not allowed to do that. I refer you to Mike Cleveland's comment about Cleveland (Catman's post downthread)
    That's never stopped him before. Then the next but one SeanT can complain about the prior ones cancellation while simultaneously feigning ignorance over the whole thing and pretending to be brand new. It's perfect!
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1276632711290068994

    Are they claiming to fight anti-semitism by propagating it? If Starmer is lucky they will all resign from the Party :D
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    Barnesian said:


    You're enjoying this aren't you? So am I. Keep it up.

    I think the next SeanT should be black. That would really mix things up.
    He is not allowed to do that. I refer you to Mike Cleveland's comment about Cleveland (Catman's post downthread)
    That's never stopped him before. Then the next but one SeanT can complain about the prior ones cancellation while simultaneously feigning ignorance over the whole thing and pretending to be brand new. It's perfect!
    I am just waiting for a convo from Lady G on cubans or slingbacks... It has never been the same here for me since Plato :(
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,209
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    This story looks like potential dynamite:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1276610242495811591
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    She sabotaged herself. He then fired her.
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    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Posting this in case no-one else has yet:

    https://www.npr.org/2020/06/26/883336183/poll-trump-disapproval-hits-all-time-high-and-he-trails-biden-by-8

    The number that struck me was 49% strongly disapprove. That is the stuff of a proper landslide.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,334

    An interesting maiden speech by the latest, rather surprising, MP for Broxtowe, formerly represented by Nick Palmer of this parish:

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1276611943588036608

    Sounds like an improvement on the immediate predecessor for that seat.
    He's well-liked, I understand.
    I hope it's clear I wasn't referring to you as his immediate predecessor.
    Yes, thanks :). I like most people but I struggled a bit with her, and not because she won. That said, I'm surprised she hasn't been snapped up by somone like Sky to do scathing Paxmanesque interviews. She'd be good.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,985
    Alistair said:
    That's deeply fucked up.
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited June 2020
    Surrey said:

    Donald Trump's brother Robert has filed a new suit against their niece Mary after the first one was slung out by a court in Queens. His lawyer said they'd have the second try in Manhattan, but it turns out they've actually filed it in upstate Dutchess County, where Robert lives and Donald owns a golf course.

    I think the issue was that the first suit was filed in the Probate Court, presumably because the alleged NDA was attached to the settlement of Fred Trump Sr’s estate. I believe this new suit is filed in the regular Supreme Court, which in New York State is a court of first instance; our court of last resort being the New York Court of Appeals. The Supreme Court is a single court across the whole state, just with a branch in each county, so it would be normal to file in one’s county of residence.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    ...

    An interesting maiden speech by the latest, rather surprising, MP for Broxtowe, formerly represented by Nick Palmer of this parish:

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1276611943588036608

    Sounds like an improvement on the immediate predecessor for that seat.
    He's well-liked, I understand.
    I hope it's clear I wasn't referring to you as his immediate predecessor.
    Yes, thanks :). I like most people but I struggled a bit with her, and not because she won. That said, I'm surprised she hasn't been snapped up by somone like Sky to do scathing Paxmanesque interviews. She'd be good.
    Her hammy acting is more suited to Midsomer Murders
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,605
    LadyG said:

    Actually, the stand-out line for me in that piece was "To look at the US, with its four centuries of racist oppression and white supremacist violence, its many decades of police brutality, and to decide that the Floyd killing was not something US police might have come up with all by themselves – that they required the instruction of faraway Israel – is to stray from rational analysis into the wilder reaches of conspiracy theory"

    That sums up the problems in the US in one sentence.
    Yes, and in the same sentence sums up why the article, and therefore the tweet, was undeniably anti-semitic.
    What is it with the extreme left and their hatred of Judaism? Does the extreme left resent the fact that Judaism does not regard Marx and Lenin as saints?
    Anti-Semitism is a fascinating phenomenon. There is a modest anti-Semitic movement in Japan, even though the Jewish population of Japan has always been vanishingly small

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-06-23-me-7040-story.html

    Best guess: humans are programmed by evolution to disfavour an out-group, ie a scapegoat, and the educated, commercially-minded, allegedly-self-regarding Jewish people are ideal for that purpose, in nearly all circumstances
    Are you suggesting that they bring it on themselves? Quite a minefield you are dancing in.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    'Our city has lost too many people': Liverpool mayor pleads with fans to go home as they party for a second night with little concern for social distancing after their side wins first league title in 30 years

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8464779/Mayor-Joe-Anderson-blasts-Liverpool-fans-party-second-night.html
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    LadyG said:

    People like Tim Walker have turned into the very people they depise e.g Nigel Farage. Constantly outraged about everything Brexit / Boris / government related.

    The UK government having a plane that looks presentable and flying the flag is what most countries have. I really fail to see the issue.

    Most countries? Governments having a plane displaying their flsg? I've lived in half a dozen countries, none of which had such a thing AFAIK. There's Air Force One, and after that I'm already struggling. Russia, perhaps? It's the sort of thing I can imagine Putin liking.
    Germany:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Adenauer_(aircraft)#:~:text=The Konrad Adenauer is a,Force at Köln Bonn Airport.


    Italy

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_transports_of_heads_of_state_and_government#/media/File:Airbus_A319-115X(CJ),_Italy_-_Air_Force_JP6283085.jpg

    Korea

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_transports_of_heads_of_state_and_government#/media/File:Airbus_A319-115X(CJ),_Italy_-_Air_Force_JP6283085.jpg

    Holland

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_transports_of_heads_of_state_and_government#/media/File:Government_of_the_Netherlands,_PH-GOV,_Boeing_737-700_(49580457533).jpg

    South Africa

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_transports_of_heads_of_state_and_government#/media/File:South_Africa_-_Air_Force_Boeing_737-7ED_BBJ_ZS-RSA_"Inkwazi"_(23447990265).jpg

    Spain

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_transports_of_heads_of_state_and_government#/media/File:Spanish_Air_Force,_T.22-1,_Airbus_A310-304_(35225030493).jpg

    I'm new here. Do you have some special issue with simple computing and Googling skills? I do not wish to be cruel
    You're not new though, nobody believes this bollocks Sean
    Who the hell cares at this point?
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Actually, the stand-out line for me in that piece was "To look at the US, with its four centuries of racist oppression and white supremacist violence, its many decades of police brutality, and to decide that the Floyd killing was not something US police might have come up with all by themselves – that they required the instruction of faraway Israel – is to stray from rational analysis into the wilder reaches of conspiracy theory"

    That sums up the problems in the US in one sentence.
    Yes, and in the same sentence sums up why the article, and therefore the tweet, was undeniably anti-semitic.
    What is it with the extreme left and their hatred of Judaism? Does the extreme left resent the fact that Judaism does not regard Marx and Lenin as saints?
    No, it's simpler than that. Capitalists = Bankers = Jews, who are therefore the root of all evil. It's the age-old meme.
    Even simpler Jews are rich and therefore evil. You can see how it has started to shift to Indians as well.
    Also the Chinese in Indonesia. And the Asians in Uganda.

    It's a classic process. Find a minority that is (arguably) more successful commercially. Pick on them.
    Authors perhaps?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Actually, the stand-out line for me in that piece was "To look at the US, with its four centuries of racist oppression and white supremacist violence, its many decades of police brutality, and to decide that the Floyd killing was not something US police might have come up with all by themselves – that they required the instruction of faraway Israel – is to stray from rational analysis into the wilder reaches of conspiracy theory"

    That sums up the problems in the US in one sentence.
    Yes, and in the same sentence sums up why the article, and therefore the tweet, was undeniably anti-semitic.
    What is it with the extreme left and their hatred of Judaism? Does the extreme left resent the fact that Judaism does not regard Marx and Lenin as saints?
    No, it's simpler than that. Capitalists = Bankers = Jews, who are therefore the root of all evil. It's the age-old meme.
    Even simpler Jews are rich and therefore evil. You can see how it has started to shift to Indians as well.
    Also the Chinese in Indonesia. And the Asians in Uganda.

    It's a classic process. Find a minority that is (arguably) more successful commercially. Pick on them.
    Authors perhaps?
    JK Rowling might agree.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited June 2020
    CatMan said:
    It just doesn't make sense to me, the same when anyone stands aside from a role because they do not have characteristic X, as if people cannot act a role without sharing characteristics. Underrepresentation of certain groups is certainly a thing, but surely we're not in a place where, say, only a gay person can play a gay person, and even for voice acting you have to be the same race as the character you play?

    And if it is felt to be wrong, then its wrong, not an honour to have played the role for 20 years.
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    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    LadyG said:

    Actually, the stand-out line for me in that piece was "To look at the US, with its four centuries of racist oppression and white supremacist violence, its many decades of police brutality, and to decide that the Floyd killing was not something US police might have come up with all by themselves – that they required the instruction of faraway Israel – is to stray from rational analysis into the wilder reaches of conspiracy theory"

    That sums up the problems in the US in one sentence.
    Yes, and in the same sentence sums up why the article, and therefore the tweet, was undeniably anti-semitic.
    What is it with the extreme left and their hatred of Judaism? Does the extreme left resent the fact that Judaism does not regard Marx and Lenin as saints?
    Anti-Semitism is a fascinating phenomenon. There is a modest anti-Semitic movement in Japan, even though the Jewish population of Japan has always been vanishingly small

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-06-23-me-7040-story.html

    Best guess: humans are programmed by evolution to disfavour an out-group, ie a scapegoat, and the educated, commercially-minded, allegedly-self-regarding Jewish people are ideal for that purpose, in nearly all circumstances
    Are you suggesting that they bring it on themselves? Quite a minefield you are dancing in.
    Of course not, you twat. I am saying ethnocentrism and persecution are tragic human memes, and have been repeated throughout human history, for reasons of evolutionary psychology.

    A country with a large Jewish population is a lucky country. Germany is palpably a lesser nation than it was pre-1939, when it had maybe the most vibrant Jewish diaspora in the world
    Correct. The Germany of the 1920s attracted the Szillards, Tellers and von Neumans of the world (and Budapest). Just imagine the Germany of the 1930s being a little more foresighted and embracing Germany's Jewish heritage instead of rejecting and expurging it.
    The world would look a little different right now, but probably not for the better.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited June 2020
    LadyG said:
    The madness is that in 2020, maybe more in the UK than America, it is often hard to tell a persons skin colour from just hearing their voice, so it doesn't really matter anymore whether it's a black, white or Asian actor voicing any of those characters
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    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    edited June 2020
    MaxPB said:

    Actually, the stand-out line for me in that piece was "To look at the US, with its four centuries of racist oppression and white supremacist violence, its many decades of police brutality, and to decide that the Floyd killing was not something US police might have come up with all by themselves – that they required the instruction of faraway Israel – is to stray from rational analysis into the wilder reaches of conspiracy theory"

    That sums up the problems in the US in one sentence.
    Yes, and in the same sentence sums up why the article, and therefore the tweet, was undeniably anti-semitic.
    What is it with the extreme left and their hatred of Judaism? Does the extreme left resent the fact that Judaism does not regard Marx and Lenin as saints?
    No, it's simpler than that. Capitalists = Bankers = Jews, who are therefore the root of all evil. It's the age-old meme.
    Even simpler Jews are rich and therefore evil. You can see how it has started to shift to Indians as well.
    Also the Chinese in Indonesia. And the Asians in Uganda.
    And white people amongst the madder parts of the extreme left.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited June 2020
    On family guy, Alex Borstein, who voices Lois Griffin, also does Asian correspondent Tricia Takanawa, Loretta Brown and Lois' mother Barbara Pewterschmidt.

    I presume she will now be under pressure not to do the Asian character or Cleveland wife?
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    The Corbynite faction needs to understand they don't have the right to be the only left wingers in the Labour Party.

    I am left wing, I support increased state intervention in the economy. I however detest what the Corbynite faction is trying to do to Labour now, especially after being defeated so comprehensively.

    You can believe in left wing policies and ideas, without being a died in the wool socialist nutter.

    I am a social democrat.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    isam said:

    LadyG said:
    The madness is that in 2020, maybe more in the UK than America, it is often hard to tell a persons skin colour from just hearing their voice, so it doesn't really matter anymore whether it's a black, white or Asian actor voicing any of those characters
    There are some offensive stereotypical vocal sylings I can imagine, but for most characters you couldn't tell nor would it matter. Some of these voice actors do several main characters and any number of side characters in a show, it'd be a bit limiting to either expand your voice actor budget for no reason, or instruct the colourist to change the race to match the voice actor. And god alone knows what you'd do for the dub actors.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,942

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    LadyG said:

    Actually, the stand-out line for me in that piece was "To look at the US, with its four centuries of racist oppression and white supremacist violence, its many decades of police brutality, and to decide that the Floyd killing was not something US police might have come up with all by themselves – that they required the instruction of faraway Israel – is to stray from rational analysis into the wilder reaches of conspiracy theory"

    That sums up the problems in the US in one sentence.
    Yes, and in the same sentence sums up why the article, and therefore the tweet, was undeniably anti-semitic.
    What is it with the extreme left and their hatred of Judaism? Does the extreme left resent the fact that Judaism does not regard Marx and Lenin as saints?
    Anti-Semitism is a fascinating phenomenon. There is a modest anti-Semitic movement in Japan, even though the Jewish population of Japan has always been vanishingly small

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-06-23-me-7040-story.html

    Best guess: humans are programmed by evolution to disfavour an out-group, ie a scapegoat, and the educated, commercially-minded, allegedly-self-regarding Jewish people are ideal for that purpose, in nearly all circumstances
    Are you suggesting that they bring it on themselves? Quite a minefield you are dancing in.
    Of course not, you twat. I am saying ethnocentrism and persecution are tragic human memes, and have been repeated throughout human history, for reasons of evolutionary psychology.

    A country with a large Jewish population is a lucky country. Germany is palpably a lesser nation than it was pre-1939, when it had maybe the most vibrant Jewish diaspora in the world
    Correct. The Germany of the 1920s attracted the Szillards, Tellers and von Neumans of the world (and Budapest). Just imagine the Germany of the 1930s being a little more foresighted and embracing Germany's Jewish heritage instead of rejecting and expurging it.
    The world would look a little different right now, but probably not for the better.
    I am genuinely interested in why you think it would not be better?

    Surely a world in which Germany did not embrace Nazism and anti-semitism would be a better place. Even if one accepts that there would probably have been a WW2 and a cold war as a result, Europe would undoubtedly have been a better place if that Jewish culture had not been erased and if all those potential Jewish contributions to art, culture and society had been allowed to flourish?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    South Park is going to be in a world of hurt....don't about 4 actors do basically all the voices?
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    matthiasfromhamburgmatthiasfromhamburg Posts: 957
    edited June 2020
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    LadyG said:

    Actually, the stand-out line for me in that piece was "To look at the US, with its four centuries of racist oppression and white supremacist violence, its many decades of police brutality, and to decide that the Floyd killing was not something US police might have come up with all by themselves – that they required the instruction of faraway Israel – is to stray from rational analysis into the wilder reaches of conspiracy theory"

    That sums up the problems in the US in one sentence.
    Yes, and in the same sentence sums up why the article, and therefore the tweet, was undeniably anti-semitic.
    What is it with the extreme left and their hatred of Judaism? Does the extreme left resent the fact that Judaism does not regard Marx and Lenin as saints?
    Anti-Semitism is a fascinating phenomenon. There is a modest anti-Semitic movement in Japan, even though the Jewish population of Japan has always been vanishingly small

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-06-23-me-7040-story.html

    Best guess: humans are programmed by evolution to disfavour an out-group, ie a scapegoat, and the educated, commercially-minded, allegedly-self-regarding Jewish people are ideal for that purpose, in nearly all circumstances
    Are you suggesting that they bring it on themselves? Quite a minefield you are dancing in.
    Of course not, you twat. I am saying ethnocentrism and persecution are tragic human memes, and have been repeated throughout human history, for reasons of evolutionary psychology.

    A country with a large Jewish population is a lucky country. Germany is palpably a lesser nation than it was pre-1939, when it had maybe the most vibrant Jewish diaspora in the world
    Correct. The Germany of the 1920s attracted the Szillards, Tellers and von Neumans of the world (and Budapest). Just imagine the Germany of the 1930s being a little more foresighted and embracing Germany's Jewish heritage instead of rejecting and expurging it.
    The world would look a little different right now, but probably not for the better.
    lol. You mean Germany might have got the Bomb quicker?

    That's a really rather narrow perception of the Jewish contribution to pre-war German life. Even if it is wittily written. Tsk.
    I'm fully aware of Jewish contributions to in-between-wars German life , believe me.
    The counterfactual of German political leadership smart enough to foresee the invention of synthetic fertiliser rendering the Lebensraum concept obsolete, and the literally world leading physics departments of German universities changing the course of human history otherwise, is fascinating, though.
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,891
    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Coronavirus: US hits record high in daily cases
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53191287

    North and South America is where its at, with India speeding up.



    But it won't be bad in India and it won't be bad in Brazil. HYUFD assured us that confidently at the end of April.
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,891
    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    Foxy said:

    This is one of the simplest and best moves to increase social mobility...Gove / Cummings were in favour of it before the blob shot it down, and I believe Labour were for it at the last GE.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1276624490458423296?s=20

    My medical School has rightly favoured post A level applications for some years. A lot of private schools over egg their predictions and state schools underestimate their brightest.
    Careful now, next you'll be saying private school pupils get excessive help with their coursework and a disproportionate number of students with reasons for getting extra time in exams and then there will be trouble.
    Parents aren't paying £10k per term for better teaching, that's for sure.
    But they do often buy their kids a better teaching environment which allows the teachers to teach more effectively.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    edited June 2020
    eristdoof said:

    Barnesian said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Coronavirus: US hits record high in daily cases
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53191287

    North and South America is where its at, with India speeding up.



    But it won't be bad in India and it won't be bad in Brazil. HYUFD assured us that confidently at the end of April.
    Deaths per million India as of tonight 11

    Global average deaths per million 63.6.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    I never said the same about Brazil which unlike India has a life expectancy above the global average
  • Options
    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,891
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    LadyG said:

    Actually, the stand-out line for me in that piece was "To look at the US, with its four centuries of racist oppression and white supremacist violence, its many decades of police brutality, and to decide that the Floyd killing was not something US police might have come up with all by themselves – that they required the instruction of faraway Israel – is to stray from rational analysis into the wilder reaches of conspiracy theory"

    That sums up the problems in the US in one sentence.
    Yes, and in the same sentence sums up why the article, and therefore the tweet, was undeniably anti-semitic.
    What is it with the extreme left and their hatred of Judaism? Does the extreme left resent the fact that Judaism does not regard Marx and Lenin as saints?
    Anti-Semitism is a fascinating phenomenon. There is a modest anti-Semitic movement in Japan, even though the Jewish population of Japan has always been vanishingly small

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-06-23-me-7040-story.html

    Best guess: humans are programmed by evolution to disfavour an out-group, ie a scapegoat, and the educated, commercially-minded, allegedly-self-regarding Jewish people are ideal for that purpose, in nearly all circumstances
    Are you suggesting that they bring it on themselves? Quite a minefield you are dancing in.
    Of course not, you twat. I am saying ethnocentrism and persecution are tragic human memes, and have been repeated throughout human history, for reasons of evolutionary psychology.

    A country with a large Jewish population is a lucky country. Germany is palpably a lesser nation than it was pre-1939, when it had maybe the most vibrant Jewish diaspora in the world
    Correct. The Germany of the 1920s attracted the Szillards, Tellers and von Neumans of the world (and Budapest). Just imagine the Germany of the 1930s being a little more foresighted and embracing Germany's Jewish heritage instead of rejecting and expurging it.
    The world would look a little different right now, but probably not for the better.
    lol. You mean Germany might have got the Bomb quicker?

    That's a really rather narrow perception of the Jewish contribution to pre-war German life. Even if it is wittily written. Tsk.
    I'm fully aware of Jewish contributions to in-between-wars German life , believe me.
    The counterfactual of German political leadership smart enough to foresee the invention of synthetic fertiliser rendering the Lebensraum concept obsolete, and the literally world leading physics departments of German universities changing the course of human history otherwise is fascinating, though.
    Absolutely right.

    Germany was the scientific superpower from 1900 onwards, eclipsing Britain, France and the USA. Partly, and significantly, because of Jewish scientists and Jewish thinkers. German universities were outpacing all others. And look at the names: Freud to Planck, Heisenberg to Einstein, Jung to Wittgenstein. Unbeatable.

    Allowed to unfurl itself, Germany might have gained the world, in a good, benign way, and German would possibly be the dominant language of science (and the internet?) even to this day.

    Hey ho. You're still annoyingly good at football, and quite a lot better at plagues.
    Eh, Freud was Austrian and Jung was Swiss. Einstein was Swiss too. Einstein kind of counts as half, but he did work in Berlin for many years.
  • Options
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    LadyG said:

    Actually, the stand-out line for me in that piece was "To look at the US, with its four centuries of racist oppression and white supremacist violence, its many decades of police brutality, and to decide that the Floyd killing was not something US police might have come up with all by themselves – that they required the instruction of faraway Israel – is to stray from rational analysis into the wilder reaches of conspiracy theory"

    That sums up the problems in the US in one sentence.
    Yes, and in the same sentence sums up why the article, and therefore the tweet, was undeniably anti-semitic.
    What is it with the extreme left and their hatred of Judaism? Does the extreme left resent the fact that Judaism does not regard Marx and Lenin as saints?
    Anti-Semitism is a fascinating phenomenon. There is a modest anti-Semitic movement in Japan, even though the Jewish population of Japan has always been vanishingly small

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-06-23-me-7040-story.html

    Best guess: humans are programmed by evolution to disfavour an out-group, ie a scapegoat, and the educated, commercially-minded, allegedly-self-regarding Jewish people are ideal for that purpose, in nearly all circumstances
    Are you suggesting that they bring it on themselves? Quite a minefield you are dancing in.
    Of course not, you twat. I am saying ethnocentrism and persecution are tragic human memes, and have been repeated throughout human history, for reasons of evolutionary psychology.

    A country with a large Jewish population is a lucky country. Germany is palpably a lesser nation than it was pre-1939, when it had maybe the most vibrant Jewish diaspora in the world
    Correct. The Germany of the 1920s attracted the Szillards, Tellers and von Neumans of the world (and Budapest). Just imagine the Germany of the 1930s being a little more foresighted and embracing Germany's Jewish heritage instead of rejecting and expurging it.
    The world would look a little different right now, but probably not for the better.
    lol. You mean Germany might have got the Bomb quicker?

    That's a really rather narrow perception of the Jewish contribution to pre-war German life. Even if it is wittily written. Tsk.
    I'm fully aware of Jewish contributions to in-between-wars German life , believe me.
    The counterfactual of German political leadership smart enough to foresee the invention of synthetic fertiliser rendering the Lebensraum concept obsolete, and the literally world leading physics departments of German universities changing the course of human history otherwise is fascinating, though.
    Absolutely right.

    Germany was the scientific superpower from 1900 onwards, eclipsing Britain, France and the USA. Partly, and significantly, because of Jewish scientists and Jewish thinkers. German universities were outpacing all others. And look at the names: Freud to Planck, Heisenberg to Einstein, Jung to Wittgenstein. Unbeatable.

    Allowed to unfurl itself, Germany might have gained the world, in a good, benign way, and German would possibly be the dominant language of science (and the internet?) even to this day.

    Hey ho. You're still annoyingly good at football, and quite a lot better at plagues.
    We literally shot ourselves in feet, kneecaps and several other places with our pettiness and bigotry. But some of us have tried to take some lessons away from that.
  • Options
    eristdoof said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    LadyG said:

    Actually, the stand-out line for me in that piece was "To look at the US, with its four centuries of racist oppression and white supremacist violence, its many decades of police brutality, and to decide that the Floyd killing was not something US police might have come up with all by themselves – that they required the instruction of faraway Israel – is to stray from rational analysis into the wilder reaches of conspiracy theory"

    That sums up the problems in the US in one sentence.
    Yes, and in the same sentence sums up why the article, and therefore the tweet, was undeniably anti-semitic.
    What is it with the extreme left and their hatred of Judaism? Does the extreme left resent the fact that Judaism does not regard Marx and Lenin as saints?
    Anti-Semitism is a fascinating phenomenon. There is a modest anti-Semitic movement in Japan, even though the Jewish population of Japan has always been vanishingly small

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-06-23-me-7040-story.html

    Best guess: humans are programmed by evolution to disfavour an out-group, ie a scapegoat, and the educated, commercially-minded, allegedly-self-regarding Jewish people are ideal for that purpose, in nearly all circumstances
    Are you suggesting that they bring it on themselves? Quite a minefield you are dancing in.
    Of course not, you twat. I am saying ethnocentrism and persecution are tragic human memes, and have been repeated throughout human history, for reasons of evolutionary psychology.

    A country with a large Jewish population is a lucky country. Germany is palpably a lesser nation than it was pre-1939, when it had maybe the most vibrant Jewish diaspora in the world
    Correct. The Germany of the 1920s attracted the Szillards, Tellers and von Neumans of the world (and Budapest). Just imagine the Germany of the 1930s being a little more foresighted and embracing Germany's Jewish heritage instead of rejecting and expurging it.
    The world would look a little different right now, but probably not for the better.
    lol. You mean Germany might have got the Bomb quicker?

    That's a really rather narrow perception of the Jewish contribution to pre-war German life. Even if it is wittily written. Tsk.
    I'm fully aware of Jewish contributions to in-between-wars German life , believe me.
    The counterfactual of German political leadership smart enough to foresee the invention of synthetic fertiliser rendering the Lebensraum concept obsolete, and the literally world leading physics departments of German universities changing the course of human history otherwise is fascinating, though.
    Absolutely right.

    Germany was the scientific superpower from 1900 onwards, eclipsing Britain, France and the USA. Partly, and significantly, because of Jewish scientists and Jewish thinkers. German universities were outpacing all others. And look at the names: Freud to Planck, Heisenberg to Einstein, Jung to Wittgenstein. Unbeatable.

    Allowed to unfurl itself, Germany might have gained the world, in a good, benign way, and German would possibly be the dominant language of science (and the internet?) even to this day.

    Hey ho. You're still annoyingly good at football, and quite a lot better at plagues.
    Eh, Freud was Austrian and Jung was Swiss. Einstein was Swiss too. Einstein kind of counts as half, but he did work in Berlin for many years.
    Einstein was Swabian by birth and lived in Bern only for a short (but highly productive) period of time.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    edited June 2020
    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:
    In about 10-20 years all those world-leading Californian universities will be overtaken by the Asians. You read it here first
    In which case as they are full of Oriental Asian students that would just be returning home
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Andy_JS said:
    Surely that tweet is highly misleading? They have agreed to ask the electorate who may well reject the proposal. Nothing is being deleted at this point in time.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,964

    Andy_JS said:
    Surely that tweet is highly misleading? They have agreed to ask the electorate who may well reject the proposal. Nothing is being deleted at this point in time.
    The fact they are proposing it is quite something.
  • Options
    houndtanghoundtang Posts: 450
    yygj;l56534w3eaLmb=*
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,985

    This story looks like potential dynamite:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1276610242495811591

    "President Putin assured me that the story isn't true, and I looked him in the eye and believed him. This is just another example of fake news from the failing so called mainstream media."
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    rcs1000 said:

    This story looks like potential dynamite:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1276610242495811591

    "President Putin assured me that the story isn't true, and I looked him in the eye and believed him. This is just another example of fake news from the failing so called mainstream media."
    Either way I do not recall the Taliban exactly covering British and American troops with daisies beforehand.

  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    houndtang said:

    yygj;l56534w3eaLmb=*

    That is what I thought too .....
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Surely that tweet is highly misleading? They have agreed to ask the electorate who may well reject the proposal. Nothing is being deleted at this point in time.
    The fact they are proposing it is quite something.
    I agree with that :+1:
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This story looks like potential dynamite:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1276610242495811591

    "President Putin assured me that the story isn't true, and I looked him in the eye and believed him. This is just another example of fake news from the failing so called mainstream media."
    Either way I do not recall the Taliban exactly covering British and American troops with daisies beforehand.

    A foreign actor supporting, financially and/or otherwise, some Afghani warlords' insurrection against the occupying troops of another foreign actor, possibly because of some geopolitical rivalry with said other foreign actor.

    Unheard of. Dynamite.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057
    edited June 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    This story looks like potential dynamite:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1276610242495811591

    "President Putin assured me that the story isn't true, and I looked him in the eye and believed him. This is just another example of fake news from the failing so called mainstream media."
    "You think we're so innocent? We paid Bin Laden to kill Russians. Not smart!"
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,964

    houndtang said:

    yygj;l56534w3eaLmb=*

    That is what I thought too .....
    Test message, please ignore.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:
    That's deeply fucked up.
    That's quite a misleading summary of the story.

    If you actually read the underlying story, North Carolina made face masks unlawful several decades ago to tackle the KKK. That law has been suspended by the GOP Governor due to the Coronavirus. The suspension is temporary (to 1 August) but is actually pretty likely to be extended.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,985

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    LadyG said:

    Actually, the stand-out line for me in that piece was "To look at the US, with its four centuries of racist oppression and white supremacist violence, its many decades of police brutality, and to decide that the Floyd killing was not something US police might have come up with all by themselves – that they required the instruction of faraway Israel – is to stray from rational analysis into the wilder reaches of conspiracy theory"

    That sums up the problems in the US in one sentence.
    Yes, and in the same sentence sums up why the article, and therefore the tweet, was undeniably anti-semitic.
    What is it with the extreme left and their hatred of Judaism? Does the extreme left resent the fact that Judaism does not regard Marx and Lenin as saints?
    Anti-Semitism is a fascinating phenomenon. There is a modest anti-Semitic movement in Japan, even though the Jewish population of Japan has always been vanishingly small

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-06-23-me-7040-story.html

    Best guess: humans are programmed by evolution to disfavour an out-group, ie a scapegoat, and the educated, commercially-minded, allegedly-self-regarding Jewish people are ideal for that purpose, in nearly all circumstances
    Are you suggesting that they bring it on themselves? Quite a minefield you are dancing in.
    Of course not, you twat. I am saying ethnocentrism and persecution are tragic human memes, and have been repeated throughout human history, for reasons of evolutionary psychology.

    A country with a large Jewish population is a lucky country. Germany is palpably a lesser nation than it was pre-1939, when it had maybe the most vibrant Jewish diaspora in the world
    Correct. The Germany of the 1920s attracted the Szillards, Tellers and von Neumans of the world (and Budapest). Just imagine the Germany of the 1930s being a little more foresighted and embracing Germany's Jewish heritage instead of rejecting and expurging it.
    The world would look a little different right now, but probably not for the better.
    I am genuinely interested in why you think it would not be better?

    Surely a world in which Germany did not embrace Nazism and anti-semitism would be a better place. Even if one accepts that there would probably have been a WW2 and a cold war as a result, Europe would undoubtedly have been a better place if that Jewish culture had not been erased and if all those potential Jewish contributions to art, culture and society had been allowed to flourish?
    I think Mattias is imagining a world where the Nazis still exterminated Roma and homosexuals, invaded Poland, but didn't go after the Jews.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,604
  • Options
    SurreySurrey Posts: 190
    edited June 2020
    Trump has cancelled his planned weekend trip to Bedminster, New Jersey, at a few hours' notice. His stated reason is "to makes sure LAW & ORDER IS ENFORCED" in Washington DC.

    Got to laugh at that one! He won't take any crap from army generals and defence secretary Mark Esper this time, right? :-)

    Earlier the state governor of New Jersey said that visitors from states with increasing numbers of coronavirus cases should go into quarantine. The White House response was to pout that His Imperial Majesty the POTUS wasn't a civilian and he could eat as many sweets as he wanted, even just before his dinner if he felt like it.

    The most relevant order-related thing that has happened recently in DC seems to be the business over the statue of Confederate general Albert Pike, best known to students of the history of freemasonry. Something tells me the army brass won't accept the invocation of the Insurrection Act in this connection.

    Then there's the Mary Trump book. Looking at what happened with the Bolton book - it "leaked" and the judge said "he's an awful cad but the cat's out of the bag FFS" - the Don's chances of successfully stopping publication seem to be tiny.

    How long until it's over.

    #JustF***ingResign
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,991
    Andy_JS said:
    He has signed an executive order giving a 10 year jail term for pulling down and destroying statues and on that I expect most Americans agree with him.

    Even if statues are removed they should be moved to a museum not toppled by the mob
  • Options
    SurreySurrey Posts: 190
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    LadyG said:

    Actually, the stand-out line for me in that piece was "To look at the US, with its four centuries of racist oppression and white supremacist violence, its many decades of police brutality, and to decide that the Floyd killing was not something US police might have come up with all by themselves – that they required the instruction of faraway Israel – is to stray from rational analysis into the wilder reaches of conspiracy theory"

    That sums up the problems in the US in one sentence.
    Yes, and in the same sentence sums up why the article, and therefore the tweet, was undeniably anti-semitic.
    What is it with the extreme left and their hatred of Judaism? Does the extreme left resent the fact that Judaism does not regard Marx and Lenin as saints?
    Anti-Semitism is a fascinating phenomenon. There is a modest anti-Semitic movement in Japan, even though the Jewish population of Japan has always been vanishingly small

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-06-23-me-7040-story.html

    Best guess: humans are programmed by evolution to disfavour an out-group, ie a scapegoat, and the educated, commercially-minded, allegedly-self-regarding Jewish people are ideal for that purpose, in nearly all circumstances
    Are you suggesting that they bring it on themselves? Quite a minefield you are dancing in.
    Of course not, you twat. I am saying ethnocentrism and persecution are tragic human memes, and have been repeated throughout human history, for reasons of evolutionary psychology.

    A country with a large Jewish population is a lucky country. Germany is palpably a lesser nation than it was pre-1939, when it had maybe the most vibrant Jewish diaspora in the world
    Correct. The Germany of the 1920s attracted the Szillards, Tellers and von Neumans of the world (and Budapest). Just imagine the Germany of the 1930s being a little more foresighted and embracing Germany's Jewish heritage instead of rejecting and expurging it.
    The world would look a little different right now, but probably not for the better.
    I am genuinely interested in why you think it would not be better?

    Surely a world in which Germany did not embrace Nazism and anti-semitism would be a better place. Even if one accepts that there would probably have been a WW2 and a cold war as a result, Europe would undoubtedly have been a better place if that Jewish culture had not been erased and if all those potential Jewish contributions to art, culture and society had been allowed to flourish?
    I think Mattias is imagining a world where the Nazis still exterminated Roma and homosexuals, invaded Poland, but didn't go after the Jews.
    Had Szilard, Teller and von Neumann worked for a non-anti-Semitic German government into the 1930s and 1940s, is there any reason to think Germany wouldn't have invaded the USSR and the tens of millions of lives that were lost in that war would have been saved? Von Neumann was keen on nuking the USSR even in the 1950s. Not everything the Nazis did was determined by their anti-Semitism, or by their view of Roma people or homosexuals either.
  • Options
    SurreySurrey Posts: 190
    edited June 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    He has signed an executive order giving a 10 year jail term for pulling down and destroying statues and on that I expect most Americans agree with him.

    Even if statues are removed they should be moved to a museum not toppled by the mob
    I agree with you that they should be. The government should say all statues to slaveowners will be removed to museums, all interested parties will be consulted as to what definitions to use, and laws regarding the protection of memorials to those killed in wars will be enforced, and perhaps even strengthened. There's a massive difference between damaging a statue to a famous slaveowner who died peacefully in his bed and smashing up the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

    Surely you don't think it's sensible to start calling those who pull down a statue (any statue, and whether they're right or wrong) "terrorists"?
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,981
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Or 20% of your population already having had does...we are seeing huge upticks in places where there have been large protests and who previously hadn't suffered too badly.

    Now that might be the general opening up, but I find it hard to believe 10,000s of people huddled together for hours on end, screaming and shouting, and coughing from all the tear gas, doesn't present a transmission vector.

    The paper the media reported yesterday as saying not down to protests, didn't actually say that, and their own charts of number / size of protests looks very very similar to where we are seeing big upticks.
    Being outside seems to be a pretty low risk, pretty much whatever goes on.
    Yup. The dogs that did not bark.

    Spoke to an epidemiologist yesterday, he concurs with you. Reckons transmission risk outside is very low.

    Despite the shrieking in the Daily Mail, the beach parties will probably make little difference.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    LadyG said:

    Actually, the stand-out line for me in that piece was "To look at the US, with its four centuries of racist oppression and white supremacist violence, its many decades of police brutality, and to decide that the Floyd killing was not something US police might have come up with all by themselves – that they required the instruction of faraway Israel – is to stray from rational analysis into the wilder reaches of conspiracy theory"

    That sums up the problems in the US in one sentence.
    Yes, and in the same sentence sums up why the article, and therefore the tweet, was undeniably anti-semitic.
    What is it with the extreme left and their hatred of Judaism? Does the extreme left resent the fact that Judaism does not regard Marx and Lenin as saints?
    Anti-Semitism is a fascinating phenomenon. There is a modest anti-Semitic movement in Japan, even though the Jewish population of Japan has always been vanishingly small

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-06-23-me-7040-story.html

    Best guess: humans are programmed by evolution to disfavour an out-group, ie a scapegoat, and the educated, commercially-minded, allegedly-self-regarding Jewish people are ideal for that purpose, in nearly all circumstances
    Are you suggesting that they bring it on themselves? Quite a minefield you are dancing in.
    Of course not, you twat. I am saying ethnocentrism and persecution are tragic human memes, and have been repeated throughout human history, for reasons of evolutionary psychology.

    A country with a large Jewish population is a lucky country. Germany is palpably a lesser nation than it was pre-1939, when it had maybe the most vibrant Jewish diaspora in the world
    Correct. The Germany of the 1920s attracted the Szillards, Tellers and von Neumans of the world (and Budapest). Just imagine the Germany of the 1930s being a little more foresighted and embracing Germany's Jewish heritage instead of rejecting and expurging it.
    The world would look a little different right now, but probably not for the better.
    I am genuinely interested in why you think it would not be better?

    Surely a world in which Germany did not embrace Nazism and anti-semitism would be a better place. Even if one accepts that there would probably have been a WW2 and a cold war as a result, Europe would undoubtedly have been a better place if that Jewish culture had not been erased and if all those potential Jewish contributions to art, culture and society had been allowed to flourish?
    I think Mattias is imagining a world where the Nazis still exterminated Roma and homosexuals, invaded Poland, but didn't go after the Jews.
    That would be the scenario where Germany was dominated by a slightly more moderate nationalistic/ultraconservative political force minus the antisemitism (and the idea of territorial gain in Eastern Europe).
    But a plethora of other alternative timelines are available if you work from Hindenburg dying in '28. The above scenario is plausible, but just about as much as Thälmann becoming the German Stalin, or the centre eventually holding and the Austrian corporal becoming the German Oswald Mosley.
    How any of these counterfactuals affect the European continent and the rest of humankind is a somehow fascinating, yet probably fruitless and potentially unsavoury debate.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,985
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    He has signed an executive order giving a 10 year jail term for pulling down and destroying statues and on that I expect most Americans agree with him.

    Even if statues are removed they should be moved to a museum not toppled by the mob
    He can sign all the executive orders he likes, he can't make laws, as that is the job of Congress.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,604
    Good news: it's started to rain.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,985
    Andy_JS said:

    Good news: it's started to rain.

    Not in LA.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Or 20% of your population already having had does...we are seeing huge upticks in places where there have been large protests and who previously hadn't suffered too badly.

    Now that might be the general opening up, but I find it hard to believe 10,000s of people huddled together for hours on end, screaming and shouting, and coughing from all the tear gas, doesn't present a transmission vector.

    The paper the media reported yesterday as saying not down to protests, didn't actually say that, and their own charts of number / size of protests looks very very similar to where we are seeing big upticks.
    Being outside seems to be a pretty low risk, pretty much whatever goes on.
    Yup. The dogs that did not bark.

    Spoke to an epidemiologist yesterday, he concurs with you. Reckons transmission risk outside is very low.

    Despite the shrieking in the Daily Mail, the beach parties will probably make little difference.
    Totally untrue. The virus can spread rapidly by close outside contact as has been attested in spike events all over the world: in the UK the Cheltenham Festival and Liverpool Champions League matches being prime examples.

    So drop your feeble anecdotes and stay safe.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,979
    Andy_JS said:

    Good news: it's started to rain.

    It's not; we've a visit to Eldest Son and his (teenage) children planned.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Infection rates are rising in the UK:

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

    Big trouble brewing here.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,373

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Or 20% of your population already having had does...we are seeing huge upticks in places where there have been large protests and who previously hadn't suffered too badly.

    Now that might be the general opening up, but I find it hard to believe 10,000s of people huddled together for hours on end, screaming and shouting, and coughing from all the tear gas, doesn't present a transmission vector.

    The paper the media reported yesterday as saying not down to protests, didn't actually say that, and their own charts of number / size of protests looks very very similar to where we are seeing big upticks.
    Being outside seems to be a pretty low risk, pretty much whatever goes on.
    Yup. The dogs that did not bark.

    Spoke to an epidemiologist yesterday, he concurs with you. Reckons transmission risk outside is very low.

    Despite the shrieking in the Daily Mail, the beach parties will probably make little difference.
    Totally untrue. The virus can spread rapidly by close outside contact as has been attested in spike events all over the world: in the UK the Cheltenham Festival and Liverpool Champions League matches being prime examples.

    So drop your feeble anecdotes and stay safe.
    The Cheltenham Festival was not a spike event. It was only bigged up as such to divert attention from Boris going to the rugby three days earlier.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    LadyG said:



    Best guess: humans are programmed by evolution to disfavour an out-group, ie a scapegoat, and the educated, commercially-minded, allegedly-self-regarding Jewish people are ideal for that purpose, in nearly all circumstances

    That's a tiresome anti-semitic trope in itself. All Jews are commercially-minded? FFS.

    It would be on safer ground to suggest that all variants of eadric et al are idiots.
    +1
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Good morning, everyone.

    Week or so until the F1 season kicks off. Be odd to have it get going three months late, but there we are.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    Scott_xP said:
    Silent Knight still not called for his resignation.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,979

    Scott_xP said:
    Silent Knight still not called for his resignation.
    Giving him enough rope.....
    Maybe!
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,373
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Good news: it's started to rain.

    Not in LA.
    Question is, will it rain on the Curragh and alter the going for this evening's Irish Derby?
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,373

    Scott_xP said:
    Silent Knight still not called for his resignation.
    After the PB debate on jury trials, perhaps former CPS boss SKS is in the camp that believes ordinary jurors do not understand financial cases.

    Mr Jenrick was seated on a table with Bruce Ritchie, the owner of Residential Land who has donated nearly £900,000 to the Tories, at the party’s Winter Ball in February.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/robert-jenrick-joined-landowner-at-tory-ball-vzcpv26km (£££)

    Trouble is, it is surely in the nature of party fundraisers that ministers meet donors, almost by definition.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,938

    Silent Knight still not called for his resignation.

    Jenrick is more useful to Labour in place.

    He's impotent as a minister. Everything he does will forever be tainted.

    And he serves as a constant reminder that while Starmer acted instantly, BoZo will move heaven and earth to keep his chums happy.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,977

    Scott_xP said:
    Silent Knight still not called for his resignation.
    He is correct to not force the issue - especially as it wouldn’t work

    Jenrick has the smell of corruption on him. As he hasn’t been forced out that smell is rapidly engulfing he rest of this government.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,334
    What happened in the primary elections in the US on Tuesday? There were a few partial results but then a statement that most would take several days to announce as postal ballots would be counted up to Thursday. Do we have final outcomes yet?
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,938
    Robert Jenrick affair taints the Conservative Party
    Allegations of cash for favours in a planning dispute could do the Tories more damage in the long run than Covid-19

    Although, in my experience, when big men want to influence a decision their instinct is to bypass the monkey and go for the organ-grinder, we must accept what Downing Street says: that the organ-grinder was above the fray. Desmond pitched it to Jenrick instead.

    The ordinary citizen will little note nor long remember the details of the mess that this has all become. It was nicely condensed in a single short paragraph by my Times colleague, Quentin Letts, in his sketch on Thursday: “Mr Desmond hoped to develop his former printing plant in the East End. He hit planning trouble. He bought . . . tickets to a Conservative Party dinner and was seated next to the planning minister, our young friend Mr Jenrick. By one of those miracles of fate, Mr Desmond’s planning troubles evaporated.”


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/robert-jenrick-affair-taints-the-conservative-party-v2kg78vfw
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274

    LadyG said:



    Best guess: humans are programmed by evolution to disfavour an out-group, ie a scapegoat, and the educated, commercially-minded, allegedly-self-regarding Jewish people are ideal for that purpose, in nearly all circumstances

    That's a tiresome anti-semitic trope in itself. All Jews are commercially-minded? FFS.

    It would be on safer ground to suggest that all variants of eadric et al are idiots.
    +2

    At least it is difficult to claim false prescience when you have made only a handful of posts...
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Or 20% of your population already having had does...we are seeing huge upticks in places where there have been large protests and who previously hadn't suffered too badly.

    Now that might be the general opening up, but I find it hard to believe 10,000s of people huddled together for hours on end, screaming and shouting, and coughing from all the tear gas, doesn't present a transmission vector.

    The paper the media reported yesterday as saying not down to protests, didn't actually say that, and their own charts of number / size of protests looks very very similar to where we are seeing big upticks.
    Being outside seems to be a pretty low risk, pretty much whatever goes on.
    Yup. The dogs that did not bark.

    Spoke to an epidemiologist yesterday, he concurs with you. Reckons transmission risk outside is very low.

    Despite the shrieking in the Daily Mail, the beach parties will probably make little difference.
    Totally untrue. The virus can spread rapidly by close outside contact as has been attested in spike events all over the world: in the UK the Cheltenham Festival and Liverpool Champions League matches being prime examples.

    So drop your feeble anecdotes and stay safe.
    The Cheltenham Festival was not a spike event. It was only bigged up as such to divert attention from Boris going to the rugby three days earlier.
    The only people attempting to claim that Cheltenham didn't act as a huge virus vector are racegoers, betters and the horse racing industry. Funny that.

    Join the moon landing conspiracy theorists if you like but to everyone else the scientific facts are clear.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977
    edited June 2020

    What happened in the primary elections in the US on Tuesday? There were a few partial results but then a statement that most would take several days to announce as postal ballots would be counted up to Thursday. Do we have final outcomes yet?

    In New York the postal ballots won't be counted for a week to ensure they've all arrived see https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-primary-results-insurgent-candidates-have-strong-showing-11593008968 so I suspect it will be Wednesday before the final results.
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,348
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Silent Knight still not called for his resignation.
    He is correct to not force the issue - especially as it wouldn’t work

    Jenrick has the smell of corruption on him. As he hasn’t been forced out that smell is rapidly engulfing he rest of this government.
    hyperbole
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Silent Knight still not called for his resignation.
    He is correct to not force the issue - especially as it wouldn’t work

    Jenrick has the smell of corruption on him. As he hasn’t been forced out that smell is rapidly engulfing he rest of this government.
    hyperbole
    Which part - that the Tory party overrode procedures at the request of a donor
    or the fact the smell seems to have moved from just Jenrick to also be coming from No 10 and / or Boris.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,173

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Silent Knight still not called for his resignation.
    He is correct to not force the issue - especially as it wouldn’t work

    Jenrick has the smell of corruption on him. As he hasn’t been forced out that smell is rapidly engulfing he rest of this government.
    hyperbole
    Reality.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Or 20% of your population already having had does...we are seeing huge upticks in places where there have been large protests and who previously hadn't suffered too badly.

    Now that might be the general opening up, but I find it hard to believe 10,000s of people huddled together for hours on end, screaming and shouting, and coughing from all the tear gas, doesn't present a transmission vector.

    The paper the media reported yesterday as saying not down to protests, didn't actually say that, and their own charts of number / size of protests looks very very similar to where we are seeing big upticks.
    Being outside seems to be a pretty low risk, pretty much whatever goes on.
    Yup. The dogs that did not bark.

    Spoke to an epidemiologist yesterday, he concurs with you. Reckons transmission risk outside is very low.

    Despite the shrieking in the Daily Mail, the beach parties will probably make little difference.
    Totally untrue. The virus can spread rapidly by close outside contact as has been attested in spike events all over the world: in the UK the Cheltenham Festival and Liverpool Champions League matches being prime examples.

    So drop your feeble anecdotes and stay safe.
    The Cheltenham Festival was not a spike event. It was only bigged up as such to divert attention from Boris going to the rugby three days earlier.
    The only people attempting to claim that Cheltenham didn't act as a huge virus vector are racegoers, betters and the horse racing industry. Funny that.

    Join the moon landing conspiracy theorists if you like but to everyone else the scientific facts are clear.
    The first two people to have coronavirus in my parents home town, by massive coincidence, both went to Cheltenham Festival.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,173

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Silent Knight still not called for his resignation.
    He is correct to not force the issue - especially as it wouldn’t work

    Jenrick has the smell of corruption on him. As he hasn’t been forced out that smell is rapidly engulfing he rest of this government.
    hyperbole
    Reality.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    Well worth catching the interview with John Major about the post-virus future, R4 Today starting about 0810
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,995
    Alistair said:
    Heh. I'll believe this thing is available for AAR tasking when I see it go on a three month deployment to the Falklands or Al-Udeid.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,298

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Or 20% of your population already having had does...we are seeing huge upticks in places where there have been large protests and who previously hadn't suffered too badly.

    Now that might be the general opening up, but I find it hard to believe 10,000s of people huddled together for hours on end, screaming and shouting, and coughing from all the tear gas, doesn't present a transmission vector.

    The paper the media reported yesterday as saying not down to protests, didn't actually say that, and their own charts of number / size of protests looks very very similar to where we are seeing big upticks.
    Being outside seems to be a pretty low risk, pretty much whatever goes on.
    Yup. The dogs that did not bark.

    Spoke to an epidemiologist yesterday, he concurs with you. Reckons transmission risk outside is very low.

    Despite the shrieking in the Daily Mail, the beach parties will probably make little difference.
    Totally untrue. The virus can spread rapidly by close outside contact as has been attested in spike events all over the world: in the UK the Cheltenham Festival and Liverpool Champions League matches being prime examples.

    So drop your feeble anecdotes and stay safe.
    The Cheltenham Festival was not a spike event. It was only bigged up as such to divert attention from Boris going to the rugby three days earlier.
    The only people attempting to claim that Cheltenham didn't act as a huge virus vector are racegoers, betters and the horse racing industry. Funny that.

    Join the moon landing conspiracy theorists if you like but to everyone else the scientific facts are clear.
    You are saying that the Cheltenham Festival and that football match were prime conductors.

    This at the time when the tube was carrying 2m people per day in and around London?
  • Options
    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,313
    edited June 2020

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Or 20% of your population already having had does...we are seeing huge upticks in places where there have been large protests and who previously hadn't suffered too badly.

    Now that might be the general opening up, but I find it hard to believe 10,000s of people huddled together for hours on end, screaming and shouting, and coughing from all the tear gas, doesn't present a transmission vector.

    The paper the media reported yesterday as saying not down to protests, didn't actually say that, and their own charts of number / size of protests looks very very similar to where we are seeing big upticks.
    Being outside seems to be a pretty low risk, pretty much whatever goes on.
    Yup. The dogs that did not bark.

    Spoke to an epidemiologist yesterday, he concurs with you. Reckons transmission risk outside is very low.

    Despite the shrieking in the Daily Mail, the beach parties will probably make little difference.
    Totally untrue. The virus can spread rapidly by close outside contact as has been attested in spike events all over the world: in the UK the Cheltenham Festival and Liverpool Champions League matches being prime examples.

    So drop your feeble anecdotes and stay safe.
    The Cheltenham Festival was not a spike event. It was only bigged up as such to divert attention from Boris going to the rugby three days earlier.
    The only people attempting to claim that Cheltenham didn't act as a huge virus vector are racegoers, betters and the horse racing industry. Funny that.

    Join the moon landing conspiracy theorists if you like but to everyone else the scientific facts are clear.
    What evidence do you have, Mystic, that Cheltenham acted as '...a huge virus vector'?

    I was there for the first three days and live about five miles from the course. Naturally I have been watching to see if there was any kind of spike associated with the event but I have seen little. That kind of surprised me but the figures for Gloucestershire indicate little effect if any, and anecdotally my many racing friends who were there were unaffected by the virus.

    Don't get me wrong. In hindsight I think the meeting should have been cancelled, and I shouldn't have gone. But I should like to know the evidence on which you base your strong opinion.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,938
    TOPPING said:

    You are saying that the Cheltenham Festival and that football match were prime conductors.

    This at the time when the tube was carrying 2m people per day in and around London?

    What percentage of people scream in your face on the tube?

    At Cheltenham it's all of them
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,298
    edited June 2020
    Scott_xP said:

    TOPPING said:

    You are saying that the Cheltenham Festival and that football match were prime conductors.

    This at the time when the tube was carrying 2m people per day in and around London?

    What percentage of people scream in your face on the tube?

    At Cheltenham it's all of them
    There is much more personal space at Cheltenham than there is on the tube.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,977

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Or 20% of your population already having had does...we are seeing huge upticks in places where there have been large protests and who previously hadn't suffered too badly.

    Now that might be the general opening up, but I find it hard to believe 10,000s of people huddled together for hours on end, screaming and shouting, and coughing from all the tear gas, doesn't present a transmission vector.

    The paper the media reported yesterday as saying not down to protests, didn't actually say that, and their own charts of number / size of protests looks very very similar to where we are seeing big upticks.
    Being outside seems to be a pretty low risk, pretty much whatever goes on.
    Yup. The dogs that did not bark.

    Spoke to an epidemiologist yesterday, he concurs with you. Reckons transmission risk outside is very low.

    Despite the shrieking in the Daily Mail, the beach parties will probably make little difference.
    Totally untrue. The virus can spread rapidly by close outside contact as has been attested in spike events all over the world: in the UK the Cheltenham Festival and Liverpool Champions League matches being prime examples.

    So drop your feeble anecdotes and stay safe.
    The Cheltenham Festival was not a spike event. It was only bigged up as such to divert attention from Boris going to the rugby three days earlier.
    The only people attempting to claim that Cheltenham didn't act as a huge virus vector are racegoers, betters and the horse racing industry. Funny that.

    Join the moon landing conspiracy theorists if you like but to everyone else the scientific facts are clear.
    What evidence do you have, Mystic, that Cheltenham acted as '...a huge virus vector'?

    I was there for the first three days and live about five miles from the course. Naturally I have been watching to see if there was any kind of spike associated with the event but I have seen little. That kind of surprised me but the figures for Gloucestershire indicates little effect if any, and anecdotally my many racing friends who were there were unaffected by the virus.

    Don't get me wrong. In hindsight I think the meeting should have been cancelled, and I shouldn't have gone. But I should like to know the evidence on which you base your strong opinion.
    I think the Liverpool match created more cases but it was really a matter of timing. If Cheltenham had been just few days later I think it would have created real problems.
This discussion has been closed.