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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » John Rentoul: The sacking of Rebecca Long-Bailey was a “Blairi

SystemSystem Posts: 8,258
edited June 27 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » John Rentoul: The sacking of Rebecca Long-Bailey was a “Blairite moment”

Interesting angle from the Indy’s John Rentoul on the sacking of Shadow Education Secretary and former unsuccessful leadership challenger, Rebecca Long-Bailey.

Read the full story here


«134

Comments

  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 9,950
    Burgon for LOTO
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 26,675
    Sneaky second
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,215
    Layla to lead opposition #2024 😀
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 26,675
    edited June 27
    ‘Planned’ is over stating the case. But I am sure he welcomed the opportunity that dropped into his lap. Particularly at the same time as the great Bozo has been desperately clinging on to Cummings and Jenrick.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 2,400
    edited June 27
    Starmer will do well as long as he's perceived to be dealing with the anti-semitism issue without throwing all the Corbynites overboard, as far from all were associated with it. Many 90's journalists like John Rentoul see the two issues as definitive and fully intertwined, but that approach will only lead to the break-up of the Labour party and non-election for Starmer.
  • RLB was useless. End of story.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 47,166
    LadyG said:
    Shattering? It's like 5% higher.
  • For me, the biggest prize is the awful Matt Zarb-Cousin is no longer involved
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 6,128
    Ave_it said:

    Layla to lead opposition #2024 😀

    Sorry about the result on Thursday Ave It.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 2,400
    edited June 27
    We're hearing a lot about new cases, but I want to hear, if that's the right way of putting it, about death rates relatively to cases. Are they not going down, particularly in Europe and America, and countries that have already been through a bad first wave, mostly ?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 26,675
    CNN: Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Tennessee and Utah all reported their highest-ever daily caseloads, according to their state's health departments. And Florida, seen possibly as the next US epicenter, beat that record again Saturday with 9,585 cases.

    And it is not just those states seeing rising numbers. The national number of daily coronavirus case reports reached a new high Friday as well, at almost 40,000, according to data from Johns Hopkins University, and 32 states are seeing the number of new cases grow from the prior week.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 11,579
    FPT
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    @Philip_Thompson

    You've drifted onto the right side of history again, I see. :smile:

    Your entire theory of the grand march of woke down the ages is based on gaps in your historical knowledge. During the latter part of the 19th century, following the events of the Morant Bay uprising, British society became increasingly more racist and ethnocentric, lead by figures like Dickens, Carlyle, and the theories of Darwin. I am not applauding this trend, but I am recognising it. Societal trends, as history has shown, are more likely to be cyclical than one-way, and if we keep this in mind, we're more likely to be sensible and tolerant, and aim for genuine kindness and the betterment of humanity, rather than jumping on a bandwagon racing toward dribbling vegan obsolescence.
    Of course it's not linear. That's a perfectly valid point.
    Then it seems a bit lazy to dismiss or endorse other people's arguments or their entire oeuvre as belonging to the 'right' or 'wrong' side of history. Better just to judge things on their merits.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,215

    Ave_it said:

    Layla to lead opposition #2024 😀

    Sorry about the result on Thursday Ave It.
    Er thanks I really enjoyed the game 😠.

    Actually Burnley deserved to win.

    But three points tomorrow v Southampton then happiness all round!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 35,177
    Starmer is far better than his predecessor but he's no Blair. He isn't even a Kinnock yet.

    Kinnock expelled people from Labour to try and make the party more electable. We are waiting to see if Starmer does that. If he does, that will be transformative.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 33,796
    edited June 27
    Can Covid Damage the Brain?

    "The more we learn about the coronavirus, the more we realize it’s not just a respiratory infection. The virus can ravage many of the body’s major organ systems, including the brain and central nervous system."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/opinion/coronavirus-brain-damage-dementia.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 33,796
    IanB2 said:

    CNN: Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Tennessee and Utah all reported their highest-ever daily caseloads, according to their state's health departments. And Florida, seen possibly as the next US epicenter, beat that record again Saturday with 9,585 cases.

    And it is not just those states seeing rising numbers. The national number of daily coronavirus case reports reached a new high Friday as well, at almost 40,000, according to data from Johns Hopkins University, and 32 states are seeing the number of new cases grow from the prior week.

    US cases up 65% in 14 days.
  • humbuggerhumbugger Posts: 339
    edited June 27
    Comparisons with Blair are ludicrous.

    Firstly, he was within a few seats of the Tories, not miles behind. Second, Blair was a charismatic leader not a worthy but dull sort. Thirdly, Blair had a very strong Shadow team with well developed policy ideas, whereas Starmer has a team of as yet nobodies and his main policy construct was Labour's farcical Brexit position which contributed handsomely to the big Tory election win.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 11,540
    Starmer was obliged to give RLB a Shad Cab position. I imagine he planned to drop her at the first reshuffle. Having her give cause for an early sacking has come as a bonus.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 2,400
    edited June 27
    LadyG said:

    An alarming (quite possibly alarmist) blog from a controversial China-skeptic, who is nonetheless accurate, from time to time.

    TLDR: the virus has mutated. It is worse. It is all over Beijing, killing 2000. It spreads QUICKER in warm temperatures. There are rumours of a coup

    https://www.jenniferzengblog.com/home/2020/6/27/over-2000-have-died-of-ccp-virus-in-beijing-2000-

    I think a very big "Hmmm" is in order here.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,905

    LadyG said:

    An alarming (quite possibly alarmist) blog from a controversial China-skeptic, who is nonetheless accurate, from time to time.

    TLDR: the virus has mutated. It is worse. It is all over Beijing, killing 2000. It spreads QUICKER in warm temperatures. There are rumours of a coup

    https://www.jenniferzengblog.com/home/2020/6/27/over-2000-have-died-of-ccp-virus-in-beijing-2000-

    I think a very big "Hmmm" is in order here.
    Kind of Eadric levels of hysteria on show from LadyG
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,905
    Ok - who the hell is Dr Disrespect - he has apparently been banned from Twitch and actually making the news Stateside
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 139
    LadyG said:

    An alarming (quite possibly alarmist) blog from a controversial China-skeptic, who is nonetheless accurate, from time to time.

    TLDR: the virus has mutated. It is worse. It is all over Beijing, killing 2000. It spreads QUICKER in warm temperatures. There are rumours of a coup

    https://www.jenniferzengblog.com/home/2020/6/27/over-2000-have-died-of-ccp-virus-in-beijing-2000-

    Is Jennifer another of your aliases? Her hyperbolic, frenetic style certainly fits.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 5,278
    As others have pointed out:
    1. Starmer has the same charisma as Tony Blair had when asleep
    2. Starmer has removed Wrong Daily from the Shadow Cabinet but is yet to speak out against the taxis scuttling round the city handing out redundancy notices or expel Wrong Daily

    I was genuinely amused when I heard he'd booted her. More amused to read the hysteria from the loony left. But he has a long long way to go to be Kinnock, never mind Blair
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 139

    Starmer was obliged to give RLB a Shad Cab position. I imagine he planned to drop her at the first reshuffle. Having her give cause for an early sacking has come as a bonus.

    Yes - though of course if she'd been deeply impressive as Shadow Education Secretary I'm sure he'd have kept her on but for yesterday's blunder - but she wasn't; so a win all round.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 11,758

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    @Philip_Thompson

    You've drifted onto the right side of history again, I see. :smile:

    Your entire theory of the grand march of woke down the ages is based on gaps in your historical knowledge. During the latter part of the 19th century, following the events of the Morant Bay uprising, British society became increasingly more racist and ethnocentric, lead by figures like Dickens, Carlyle, and the theories of Darwin. I am not applauding this trend, but I am recognising it. Societal trends, as history has shown, are more likely to be cyclical than one-way, and if we keep this in mind, we're more likely to be sensible and tolerant, and aim for genuine kindness and the betterment of humanity, rather than jumping on a bandwagon racing toward dribbling vegan obsolescence.
    Of course it's not linear. That's a perfectly valid point.
    Then it seems a bit lazy to dismiss or endorse other people's arguments or their entire oeuvre as belonging to the 'right' or 'wrong' side of history. Better just to judge things on their merits.
    OK. But I only use the phrase when I think it works. I don't bandy it about.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 4,288
    Floater said:

    LadyG said:

    An alarming (quite possibly alarmist) blog from a controversial China-skeptic, who is nonetheless accurate, from time to time.

    TLDR: the virus has mutated. It is worse. It is all over Beijing, killing 2000. It spreads QUICKER in warm temperatures. There are rumours of a coup

    https://www.jenniferzengblog.com/home/2020/6/27/over-2000-have-died-of-ccp-virus-in-beijing-2000-

    I think a very big "Hmmm" is in order here.
    Kind of Eadric levels of hysteria on show from LadyG
    They have "both" been on this evening hence double the drama.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 54,583

    As others have pointed out:
    1. Starmer has the same charisma as Tony Blair had when asleep
    2. Starmer has removed Wrong Daily from the Shadow Cabinet but is yet to speak out against the taxis scuttling round the city handing out redundancy notices or expel Wrong Daily

    I was genuinely amused when I heard he'd booted her. More amused to read the hysteria from the loony left. But he has a long long way to go to be Kinnock, never mind Blair

    I doubt he has enough to expel her even if he wanted to - he took the opportunity she provided to sack her, but it'd need more than that to take stronger action still.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 3,771
    LadyG said:

    An alarming (quite possibly alarmist) blog from a controversial China-skeptic, who is nonetheless accurate, from time to time.

    TLDR: the virus has mutated. It is worse. It is all over Beijing, killing 2000. It spreads QUICKER in warm temperatures. There are rumours of a coup

    https://www.jenniferzengblog.com/home/2020/6/27/over-2000-have-died-of-ccp-virus-in-beijing-2000-

    Well over a week ago we had news that Beijing had closed schools and stopped most flights into the city. Not heard much since, has anyone seen anything authoritative? I am very much sensing that once again there is something the Chinese might not be telling us.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 11,540
    I have just picked up on the fact that Kate Green, RLB's replacement, chaired Owen Smith's leadership campaign against Jezza.

    Starmer is trolling.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 3,771

    Starmer is far better than his predecessor but he's no Blair. He isn't even a Kinnock yet.

    Kinnock expelled people from Labour to try and make the party more electable. We are waiting to see if Starmer does that. If he does, that will be transformative.


    He doesn't really need to be a Blair or a Kinnock he just needs to be better than Johnson.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,905
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    An alarming (quite possibly alarmist) blog from a controversial China-skeptic, who is nonetheless accurate, from time to time.

    TLDR: the virus has mutated. It is worse. It is all over Beijing, killing 2000. It spreads QUICKER in warm temperatures. There are rumours of a coup

    https://www.jenniferzengblog.com/home/2020/6/27/over-2000-have-died-of-ccp-virus-in-beijing-2000-

    I think a very big "Hmmm" is in order here.
    Indeed, which is why I said "alarmist".

    The idea that there has been an attempted coup is especially overripe.

    That said, Jennifer Zeng (who is fanatically anti-CCP) was right about the early Wuhan cover-up, so it is not impossible she is seeing *something*.

    I think you will like






    The news about the dam is a little concerning

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,905
    OllyT said:

    LadyG said:

    An alarming (quite possibly alarmist) blog from a controversial China-skeptic, who is nonetheless accurate, from time to time.

    TLDR: the virus has mutated. It is worse. It is all over Beijing, killing 2000. It spreads QUICKER in warm temperatures. There are rumours of a coup

    https://www.jenniferzengblog.com/home/2020/6/27/over-2000-have-died-of-ccp-virus-in-beijing-2000-

    Well over a week ago we had news that Beijing had closed schools and stopped most flights into the city. Not heard much since, has anyone seen anything authoritative? I am very much sensing that once again there is something the Chinese might not be telling us.
    Well - they are shutting people in apartment blocks again apparently
  • isamisam Posts: 32,714
    Mulling over the logic behind characters in cartoons having to be voiced by an actor of the ethnicity portrayed, isn't it more 'problematic' that the words spoken are written by someone of different ethnicity?

    And will Bart have to be voiced by a male actor now, along with Nelson, Ralph, Todd etc?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 33,796


    Trump wants to lose doesn't he? Maybe he is bored.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 4,288
    Ave_it said:
    True, but offset by upticks for the Greens and LDs is good.

    Oh yes, and Johnson looking shakier than at the last opinion poll and I had predicted a post Covid Johnson surge, so I'm looking pretty silly now
  • Polls essentially show no movement in the last week
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 33,796
    While new U.S. cases of Covid-19 spike to record highs, a worrying trend is emerging: Diagnosed infections are soaring among younger people, with the majority of new cases in several regions now being seen among people under age 50, with significant increases among teens and young adults.

    https://elemental.medium.com/surge-in-younger-covid-19-infections-could-worsen-the-pandemic-4622aa43126
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 33,796
    LadyG said:

    isam said:

    Mulling over the logic behind characters in cartoons having to be voiced by an actor of the ethnicity portrayed, isn't it more 'problematic' that the words spoken are written by someone of different ethnicity?

    And will Bart have to be voiced by a male actor now, along with Nelson, Ralph, Todd etc?

    The same debate is going on in drama, art, publishing - eg the idea is forming that white writers should only write white characters, Asians can do Asians, gays can do gays.

    It is utterly toxic. Goodbye the new Othello
    Goodbye female authors writing about male characters next?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 4,288
    This could be the trick up Trump's sleeve. It could work too.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 11,758
    isam said:

    Mulling over the logic behind characters in cartoons having to be voiced by an actor of the ethnicity portrayed, isn't it more 'problematic' that the words spoken are written by someone of different ethnicity?

    And will Bart have to be voiced by a male actor now, along with Nelson, Ralph, Todd etc?

    Let it go. If you keep scratching it will only get worse.


  • Starmer is still outpolling his party
  • kicorsekicorse Posts: 340
    edited June 27
    From the article: "I just wonder whether associating Starmer with Blair, probably the most hated man in large parts of the Labour movement is doing the new leader any favours but there is no doubt that this is a major political event which could be looked back on in the same way Blair’s decision to axe Clause 4 was,"

    I couldn't agree more. And it's also lazy. Albeit a form of laziness that is widespread.

    Blair's unpopularity within the party comes from the Iraq War and from moving the party to the right. Starmer is taking on toxicity within the party associated with aggressiveness* towards other viewpoints (which Blair did not do; Kinnock did that for him). These things are orthogonal. You can be centrist and militant. You can be left and open-minded.

    *I'm not suggesting that Rebecca Long-Bailey is part of that aggressiveness. She clearly is not. But she perhaps doesn't recognise how toxic it is.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,905

    While new U.S. cases of Covid-19 spike to record highs, a worrying trend is emerging: Diagnosed infections are soaring among younger people, with the majority of new cases in several regions now being seen among people under age 50, with significant increases among teens and young adults.

    https://elemental.medium.com/surge-in-younger-covid-19-infections-could-worsen-the-pandemic-4622aa43126

    A medical professional I watch on youtube reckons that the main reason for that is the more at risk age groups are still social distancing
  • Is Starmer associating himself with Blair?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 942
    Imagine if the Lib Dems and Greens merged with Labour :naughty:
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 4,288
    All travelling in the right direction. Remember Starmer and the Party can't afford to peak too early.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 14,577
    For all the gloating, Rentoul remains a Conservative supporter, no?
  • sladeslade Posts: 951
    Diana Maddick has died. Holds the record for one of the biggest swings in electoral history in Christchurch. Also married Alan Beith so that we had a married couple in the House of Lords.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 1,307

    While new U.S. cases of Covid-19 spike to record highs, a worrying trend is emerging: Diagnosed infections are soaring among younger people, with the majority of new cases in several regions now being seen among people under age 50, with significant increases among teens and young adults.

    https://elemental.medium.com/surge-in-younger-covid-19-infections-could-worsen-the-pandemic-4622aa43126

    It would be concerning if large numbers were getting seriously ill or dying, but beyond that isn’t it just an inevitable consequence of increased testing and ending of lockdowns? Shifting of testing from hospitals and care homes to mass community testing.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 19,536
    This is definitely revenge of the Blairites after 13 years of drift since Brown took over.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 4,288
    Say it like it is, Bastani is a knob!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 31,178
    OllyT said:

    LadyG said:

    An alarming (quite possibly alarmist) blog from a controversial China-skeptic, who is nonetheless accurate, from time to time.

    TLDR: the virus has mutated. It is worse. It is all over Beijing, killing 2000. It spreads QUICKER in warm temperatures. There are rumours of a coup

    https://www.jenniferzengblog.com/home/2020/6/27/over-2000-have-died-of-ccp-virus-in-beijing-2000-




    Well over a week ago we had news that Beijing had closed schools and stopped most flights into the city. Not heard much since, has anyone seen anything authoritative? I am very much sensing that once again there is something the Chinese might not be telling us.
    A good friend of my daughter was supposed to be going to a city just outside Beijing this month to teach English. She has now been postponed until September because all the schools are shut and foreigners are not being admitted.

    There is no doubt something significant has happened but it may be that the Chinese are just determined to get a grip before it becomes another Wuhan.

  • CatManCatMan Posts: 942
    edited June 27
    MaxPB said:

    This is definitely revenge of the Blairites after 13 years of drift since Brown took over.

    Was Brown really that different to Blair? He went on record saying he would have done everything Blair did regarding Iraq.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 1,307
    RLB was basically taking a hard pro-union position (and the most militant unions) on opening up schools which undermined the attacks on the shambolic govt policy. That’s probably the real reason Starmer wanted her out.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 4,877
    OllyT said:

    Starmer is far better than his predecessor but he's no Blair. He isn't even a Kinnock yet.

    Kinnock expelled people from Labour to try and make the party more electable. We are waiting to see if Starmer does that. If he does, that will be transformative.

    He doesn't really need to be a Blair or a Kinnock he just needs to be better than Johnson.
    Perhaps. Then again, perhaps just not being Boris Johnson won't work for him the same way as not being Jeremy Corbyn worked for Boris Johnson? You're discounting the possibility that Boris Johnson might not be that toxic to voters (or that Labour may actually need to do some work to get its old voters back. Or to attract any new ones.)

    You're also making the assumption that Boris Johnson will still be Prime Minister in four years' time.
  • alex_ said:

    RLB was basically taking a hard pro-union position (and the most militant unions) on opening up schools which undermined the attacks on the shambolic govt policy. That’s probably the real reason Starmer wanted her out.

    There is surely an element of this, yes.

    Starmer wants schools open as soon as possible (I assume this popular publicly) and notably RLB's replacement said in their statement they agree. I assume this was a redline for Starmer.


  • Starmer is still outpolling his party
    Yup, something is holding a decisive chunk of the voting population back from supporting Labour. There are plenty of possibilities- the economy, personality, residual Momentum-smell to name three.

    Whoever identifies it, then attacks/defends/resolves it, probably wins.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 1,307
    DavidL said:

    OllyT said:

    LadyG said:

    An alarming (quite possibly alarmist) blog from a controversial China-skeptic, who is nonetheless accurate, from time to time.

    TLDR: the virus has mutated. It is worse. It is all over Beijing, killing 2000. It spreads QUICKER in warm temperatures. There are rumours of a coup

    https://www.jenniferzengblog.com/home/2020/6/27/over-2000-have-died-of-ccp-virus-in-beijing-2000-




    Well over a week ago we had news that Beijing had closed schools and stopped most flights into the city. Not heard much since, has anyone seen anything authoritative? I am very much sensing that once again there is something the Chinese might not be telling us.
    A good friend of my daughter was supposed to be going to a city just outside Beijing this month to teach English. She has now been postponed until September because all the schools are shut and foreigners are not being admitted.

    There is no doubt something significant has happened but it may be that the Chinese are just determined to get a grip before it becomes another Wuhan.

    There’s a big gap between “China are hiding big problems and massively covering up and manipulating figures” and “there is a new version of the virus that is much worse and going to kill us all”. The former is just what many people assume to be the case and I would suspect is what’s going on.
  • Is there a way to always go to the latest post when opening one of these threads, @MikeSmithson?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 22,333
    This is a cool tip for primary school teachers....

    https://www.npr.org/2020/06/24/882316641/what-parents-can-learn-from-child-care-centers-that-stayed-open-during-lockdowns
    ... Staff came up with creative ways to reinforce frequent and thorough hand-washing. Libby Corral is chief operating officer of the Valley of the Sun YMCA, which operated nine emergency child care sites across Arizona (this month they expanded to regular camp programming). She says that at the beginning of each 30-minute activity, such as sports or craft time, children get a stamp or marker doodle on their hands, which they have to wash off before moving on to the next activity.

    "We were teaching them not just 'rinse your hands,' but 'scrub them.' And instead of having to dread washing their hands, they were able to get excited and laugh and have fun while they were doing that."...


    Notably the US YMCAs have had no clusters of infection.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 31,178
    alex_ said:

    DavidL said:

    OllyT said:

    LadyG said:

    An alarming (quite possibly alarmist) blog from a controversial China-skeptic, who is nonetheless accurate, from time to time.

    TLDR: the virus has mutated. It is worse. It is all over Beijing, killing 2000. It spreads QUICKER in warm temperatures. There are rumours of a coup

    https://www.jenniferzengblog.com/home/2020/6/27/over-2000-have-died-of-ccp-virus-in-beijing-2000-




    Well over a week ago we had news that Beijing had closed schools and stopped most flights into the city. Not heard much since, has anyone seen anything authoritative? I am very much sensing that once again there is something the Chinese might not be telling us.
    A good friend of my daughter was supposed to be going to a city just
    outside Beijing this month to teach English. She has now been postponed until September because all the schools are shut and foreigners are not being admitted.


    There is no doubt something significant has happened but it may be that the Chinese are just determined to get a grip before it becomes another Wuhan.


    There’s a big gap between “China are hiding big problems and massively
    covering up and manipulating figures” and “there is a new version of the virus that is much worse and going to kill us all”. The former is just what many people assume to be the case and I would suspect is what’s going on.
    Oh sure. I know nothing at all about new killer viruses. It’s just that after having a position for a couple of months that Covid was pretty much eliminated it’s clear that it’s back.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 19,536
    LadyG said:

    alex_ said:

    While new U.S. cases of Covid-19 spike to record highs, a worrying trend is emerging: Diagnosed infections are soaring among younger people, with the majority of new cases in several regions now being seen among people under age 50, with significant increases among teens and young adults.

    https://elemental.medium.com/surge-in-younger-covid-19-infections-could-worsen-the-pandemic-4622aa43126

    It would be concerning if large numbers were getting seriously ill or dying, but beyond that isn’t it just an inevitable consequence of increased testing and ending of lockdowns? Shifting of testing from hospitals and care homes to mass community testing.
    Hospitalizations in some areas (eg Arizona) are now rising, however

    One of America's worries with younger people getting it is that so many of the young people there are obese, morbidly so in many cases so the death rate for under 50s will be higher there than it has been across Europe.


  • Starmer is still outpolling his party
    Yup, something is holding a decisive chunk of the voting population back from supporting Labour. There are plenty of possibilities- the economy, personality, residual Momentum-smell to name three.

    Whoever identifies it, then attacks/defends/resolves it, probably wins.
    Seemingly Labour has the potential to reach 43% of the vote based on leadership rankings, i.e. what Blair achieved in 1997 which seems reasonable. Keir needs to work on the next 4% of voters and figure out what they want and why despite them preferring him as PM, they are currently with the Tories/any other party.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 19,536
    CatMan said:

    MaxPB said:

    This is definitely revenge of the Blairites after 13 years of drift since Brown took over.

    Was Brown really that different to Blair? He went on record saying he would have done everything Blair did regarding Iraq.
    Brown was just a general disaster but yes, he was fairly similar to Blair in policy terms, ruinously different in presentation terms for Labour.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 4,877
    Up to a point. The election is four years away, Johnson won't necessarily be Prime Minister at that point, and Starmer is a blank canvas right now, onto which potential supporters can project an image of their choosing. All he's had to do is look serious and not blunder across the political landscape like Corbyn, setting off elephant traps and landmines every twenty yards.

    Once the man is obliged to draft and sell a manifesto, which might actually upset some people outside of the hard left of his own party, then we'll see whether the approval numbers hold up.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 1,307

    Is there a way to always go to the latest post when opening one of these threads, @MikeSmithson?

    I recommend using vanilla and remaining signed in at all times. Then it will always take you to the most recent post that you’ve read.
  • alex_ said:

    Is there a way to always go to the latest post when opening one of these threads, @MikeSmithson?

    I recommend using vanilla and remaining signed in at all times. Then it will always take you to the most recent post that you’ve read.
    I do but I'd like to go to the newest post that's posted. How do I mark a post as read?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 33,017

    LadyG said:

    isam said:

    Mulling over the logic behind characters in cartoons having to be voiced by an actor of the ethnicity portrayed, isn't it more 'problematic' that the words spoken are written by someone of different ethnicity?

    And will Bart have to be voiced by a male actor now, along with Nelson, Ralph, Todd etc?

    The same debate is going on in drama, art, publishing - eg the idea is forming that white writers should only write white characters, Asians can do Asians, gays can do gays.

    It is utterly toxic. Goodbye the new Othello
    Goodbye female authors writing about male characters next?
    All books should be written by diverse committees. The concept of a single author is an abuse of power and reflects assumptions about cultural hegemony in society.
  • CatMan said:

    Imagine if the Lib Dems and Greens merged with Labour :naughty:
    Starmer must surely find it easier to pick off Lib Dem and Green voters than Tory voters.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 33,816

    All travelling in the right direction. Remember Starmer and the Party can't afford to peak too early.
    4 years to go
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 1,307

    alex_ said:

    Is there a way to always go to the latest post when opening one of these threads, @MikeSmithson?

    I recommend using vanilla and remaining signed in at all times. Then it will always take you to the most recent post that you’ve read.
    I do but I'd like to go to the newest post that's posted. How do I mark a post as read?
    Latest one posted is just end of the thread on vanilla or top of the thread on the main site
  • alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Is there a way to always go to the latest post when opening one of these threads, @MikeSmithson?

    I recommend using vanilla and remaining signed in at all times. Then it will always take you to the most recent post that you’ve read.
    I do but I'd like to go to the newest post that's posted. How do I mark a post as read?
    Latest one posted is just end of the thread on vanilla or top of the thread on the main site
    No you're not getting what I am saying.

    If I reload the page, I would like it to go to the bottom where the new post is (on Vanilla) but it will often go to a post a few above, which I assume is where it thinks I "read" up to. I wondered if this behaviour was changeable, hence my question.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,905

    Is there a way to always go to the latest post when opening one of these threads, @MikeSmithson?

    If I open the thread from front page the newest posts are always at top (using Chrome on PC and Safari on I pad
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 33,017
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    isam said:

    Mulling over the logic behind characters in cartoons having to be voiced by an actor of the ethnicity portrayed, isn't it more 'problematic' that the words spoken are written by someone of different ethnicity?

    And will Bart have to be voiced by a male actor now, along with Nelson, Ralph, Todd etc?

    The same debate is going on in drama, art, publishing - eg the idea is forming that white writers should only write white characters, Asians can do Asians, gays can do gays.

    It is utterly toxic. Goodbye the new Othello
    Goodbye female authors writing about male characters next?
    Quite possibly.

    There is definitely a move to ensure white writers do not feature leading BAME characters.




    1,000 Likes for that tweet.

    It will probably end up with entirely white novels/sitcoms/movies about white middle class people, which people will call racist for being so white.

    Alternatively, as Lionel Shriver has suggested, it will end with the only permitted form of writing being memoir, as that is your story and only you can tell it. Once.
    But she feels happy to write about Icelandic culture based on crowdsourcing.

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 139
    I agree, so why on earth do you keep putting his tweets on here?


  • I am not sure this is correct. Didn't Corbyn lead once?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 1,307



    I am not sure this is correct. Didn't Corbyn lead once?
    Aftermath of 2017 election?
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 2,919
    No, I don't think it was planned by Starmer. His position in the party is not yet secure enough for that. I think that Starmer was simply pushed into a corner by Long-Bailey when she refused to withdraw the tweet and Starmer then took the only course that would have ensured that his authority remained intact. He may well have wanted to be shot of her some time further down the road, but now was not the time.

    Starmer has a precarious majority on the NEC but to consolidate that he will need to win a key vote on the use of STV to elect constituency representatives that is coming up next month. If he loses that vote, there is still the possibility that the far left could pick up all 9 NEC CLP representatives ratherthan the 7 they have now, in which case Starmer will lose his majority. If he wins, his majority on the NEC will be secure. So if there was any planning in the fact that this came to a head now, it is probably came from Long-Bailey and McDonnell, who judged that the time to try and provoke a reaction was now, ahead of that key NEC meeting.

    On the other hand, I think the cock-up theory is more plausible. Long-Bailey habitually felt the instinctive need to continue to snipe at the new leadership, misjudged the likely reaction to retweeting and endorsing such a divisive article and the controversy that would ensue, and then decided that it was better to become a martyr of the far left than to back down herself.
  • isamisam Posts: 32,714
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Mulling over the logic behind characters in cartoons having to be voiced by an actor of the ethnicity portrayed, isn't it more 'problematic' that the words spoken are written by someone of different ethnicity?

    And will Bart have to be voiced by a male actor now, along with Nelson, Ralph, Todd etc?

    Let it go. If you keep scratching it will only get worse.
    It's fine, I'm unpicking the folly of your idea. It ends with mono culture.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 3,286
    edited June 27

    LadyG said:

    isam said:

    Mulling over the logic behind characters in cartoons having to be voiced by an actor of the ethnicity portrayed, isn't it more 'problematic' that the words spoken are written by someone of different ethnicity?

    And will Bart have to be voiced by a male actor now, along with Nelson, Ralph, Todd etc?

    The same debate is going on in drama, art, publishing - eg the idea is forming that white writers should only write white characters, Asians can do Asians, gays can do gays.

    It is utterly toxic. Goodbye the new Othello
    Goodbye female authors writing about male characters next?
    All books should be written by diverse committees. The concept of a single author is an abuse of power and reflects assumptions about cultural hegemony in society.
    And in the 25th Century, the history teacher said ".... and their civilisation was toppled when a cartoon series employed a few extra actors. The shock of this was so immense that it crushed their ability to cope..."

    Not!

    Look - there are always people crying for stupid stuff like books to be written by committees and so on. Most people will simply ignore them and they will fade into the sort of irrelevance that that sort of person always winds up in.

    Last week, it was the toppling of statues that was going to end western civilisation. This week the streets seem free of pieces of public sclupture littering gutters and harbours and most people have forgotten it and moved on.

    If you really want to worry about the end of civilisation, worry about Eadric's latest story that the Chinese have somehow made the virus worse.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 54,583
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    isam said:

    Mulling over the logic behind characters in cartoons having to be voiced by an actor of the ethnicity portrayed, isn't it more 'problematic' that the words spoken are written by someone of different ethnicity?

    And will Bart have to be voiced by a male actor now, along with Nelson, Ralph, Todd etc?

    The same debate is going on in drama, art, publishing - eg the idea is forming that white writers should only write white characters, Asians can do Asians, gays can do gays.

    It is utterly toxic. Goodbye the new Othello
    Goodbye female authors writing about male characters next?
    Quite possibly.

    There is definitely a move to ensure white writers do not feature leading BAME characters.




    1,000 Likes for that tweet.

    It will probably end up with entirely white novels/sitcoms/movies about white middle class people, which people will call racist for being so white.

    Alternatively, as Lionel Shriver has suggested, it will end with the only permitted form of writing being memoir, as that is your story and only you can tell it. Once.
    I usually hedge my language, but the approach suggested by that tweet is utterly demented.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 2,400
    edited June 27
    Another archetypal sixties departs. Glaser was a good part of the influence of the sixties for rainbow colours, combined with Leary and the hippie movement. In many ways typical of the kind of figure that "cultural marxism" - the then turn towards the concept of culture freeing before politics, rather the more common modern sense, of an alt-right delusion of a jewish conspiracy to destroy culture - allowed to flourish.

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2020/jun/27/milton-glaser-why-the-new-york-graphic-designer-was-so-influential
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 31,378

    As others have pointed out:
    1. Starmer has the same charisma as Tony Blair had when asleep
    2. Starmer has removed Wrong Daily from the Shadow Cabinet but is yet to speak out against the taxis scuttling round the city handing out redundancy notices or expel Wrong Daily

    I was genuinely amused when I heard he'd booted her. More amused to read the hysteria from the loony left. But he has a long long way to go to be Kinnock, never mind Blair

    To be fair, it took Kinnock more than three months to speak out against said taxis, and Kinnock also didn't have a pandemic to deal with.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 26,675

    No, I don't think it was planned by Starmer. His position in the party is not yet secure enough for that. I think that Starmer was simply pushed into a corner by Long-Bailey when she refused to withdraw the tweet and Starmer then took the only course that would have ensured that his authority remained intact. He may well have wanted to be shot of her some time further down the road, but now was not the time.

    Starmer has a precarious majority on the NEC but to consolidate that he will need to win a key vote on the use of STV to elect constituency representatives that is coming up next month. If he loses that vote, there is still the possibility that the far left could pick up all 9 NEC CLP representatives ratherthan the 7 they have now, in which case Starmer will lose his majority. If he wins, his majority on the NEC will be secure. So if there was any planning in the fact that this came to a head now, it is probably came from Long-Bailey and McDonnell, who judged that the time to try and provoke a reaction was now, ahead of that key NEC meeting.

    On the other hand, I think the cock-up theory is more plausible. Long-Bailey habitually felt the instinctive need to continue to snipe at the new leadership, misjudged the likely reaction to retweeting and endorsing such a divisive article and the controversy that would ensue, and then decided that it was better to become a martyr of the far left than to back down herself.

    Amusingly, she did back down, agreeing the text of her retraction with her leader’s office, then was sacked anyway.
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