Hard to imagine what kind of favours they could possibly get if they didn't build and operate the factory. Tax breaks on a factory that doesn't exists is a bit . . . hard to explain.
Its not like the government is writing a cheque and then they're going to vanish into the night like some cowboy builder.
I'm sure I can find examples of that in the past...
UK also has the advantage of being the world's second largest RHD market - concentrating all RHD production in two or three factories (UK, JP, AU or SA) also allows for extra efficiencies in all the others.
LHD/RHD production isn't a big deal for Telsa (or other EV manufacturers). The firewall and dash are the same and there is no IC powertrain to get in the way of the steering column.
The best thing the UK government could do to attract Telsa would be to not legislate any accessibility standards on commercial EV charging so the non-Tesla charging landscape remains fragmented and user hostile.
It struck me that Jeremy Corbin's story is akin to the strand in literature and films in which an ingenu is thrust into a fierce limelight and faces an array of challenges to which he is peculiarly unsuited, like Forrest Gump or Candide. There is a tragic tinge to the comedy unleashed by the situation. Perhaps we'll see Jeremy as the protagonist in a movie sometime.
Then he is falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded room. Again.
Consider smallpox. Using cowpox, or its later refinements, may have been the 1st vaccine. It saved millions from death or disfiguration. It's now history.
Or how about polio? I knew people who had to live in an iron lung. My brother had it, but was unaffected after a stay in the hospital. I believe, owing to a benighted core of people, it may still not be eradicated.
I had a case of measles that nearly felled me. Now we have a well tested triple vaccine, but owing to the aforementioned benighted, it still lurks and damages kids.
But, if people will believe the world was created 6000 yeas ago and/or vote for Trump we must acknowledge the limitless malleability of the human brain.
I would love to know what actually happens to these people. It is clearly not just people who are stupid. Wakefield was clearly not an idiot and he is not the only one. We can all think of people in the public eye who have gone full on weird.
When Plato started posting odd stuff I started to follow her on Twitter and then Gab when she got banned from twitter. The stuff was absolutely bonkers. One that springs to mind is the conspiracy theories on CNN broadcasts being faked. The stuff that was identified make the moon landings not happening look positively sane in terms of the effort CNN would have had to put together to fake stuff that didn't need faking.
Yet she didn't post this stuff earlier. It strikes me that it is very similar to cult behaviour, but what makes someone susceptible to a cult?
In schools, if not also at home, kids should be taught literacy, numeracy and scepticism. If I were a school teacher I'd give 'em an article once a week to criticise. And maybe I'd build on that in other ways.
As Harry Truman might say: "I'm from Missouri show me".
I think that is very sensible, but something happens at some point to certain people who do actually challenge stuff but in ludicrous ways (find bizarre reasons to negate evidence eg the CNN stuff) yet accept stuff that is clearly demonstrably nonsense.
There is challenging and challenging. How do you respond to someone who says 'show me it wasn't the lizards that did it'
40 odd years ago (it is that much printed on my mind) I was waiting to meet up with a girlfriend on Tottenham Court Road when I was approached by someone doing a survey. I was early so said ok. We went into a shop front where many were doing the survey. Afterwards there was an interview. At this point it became obvious this was a conversion exercise into some sort of cult/con. I was so angry I let rip and stormed out. I was also angry with myself that I got suckered in to it to that point, although there was nothing to suggest it was a cult/con until the interview when it became obvious very quickly. I wondered how often they were successful.
Probably Scientology
Could have been. I didn't hang around to find out. I was spitting tacks. Needless to say those taking the survey as I walked past them on leaving will have become aware of my feelings.
Oh and on topic I'm surprised that so many young people would agree to have a vaccine which is a near enough wholly altruistic action.
Perhaps if it came to it they would (cf voting) forget to do it.
You may be on to something there. A lot of people under 50 are extremely pissed off with people over 50, because of eg. Brexit. “Forgetting” to take a vaccine might be their little private protest against older people “forgetting” about the interests of younger people.
If an oldie has had the vaccine how does youngsters not having it affect them? If you have the vaccine does it matter what anyone else does? Perhaps I am missing something here.
Yes. Two things.
1: Vaccines don't have a 100% success rate normally and may fail for an individual. 2: Not all individuals are able to have a vaccine, eg if they're immunocompromised and thus especially vulnerable.
This is why because of idiots refusing to get the MMR jab increasing numbers of children are getting Measles etc . . . because the vaccine works through two different mechanisms, firstly protecting the individual from getting it the vast majority of the time and secondly by creating a herd immunity effect so that even those who can't get it (or it doesn't work for) are protected too.
Thanks that makes sense though if you can have the vaccine yourself it would seem to lower the risks massively. Still selfish not to bother be vaccinated if you can be.
Interesting dilemma for the righties in USA and elsewhere if Trump is now saying mask-wearing is patriotic. Casino will be making one out of his union jack underwear as we speak!.
Oh and on topic I'm surprised that so many young people would agree to have a vaccine which is a near enough wholly altruistic action.
Perhaps if it came to it they would (cf voting) forget to do it.
You may be on to something there. A lot of people under 50 are extremely pissed off with people over 50, because of eg. Brexit. “Forgetting” to take a vaccine might be their little private protest against older people “forgetting” about the interests of younger people.
If an oldie has had the vaccine how does youngsters not having it affect them? If you have the vaccine does it matter what anyone else does? Perhaps I am missing something here.
So to spite grandad - who may or may not have voted for Brexit, the young'uns are going to expose themselves unnecessarily to a disease that that can kill or cripple* them? Despite grandpa almost certainly getting the vaccine first - and thus probably being immune?
These young'uns sound like Stable Geniuses. The Bestest Ever. Passed their cognitive function tests with flying colours no doubt. Do they wear red hats with an acronym on them?
UK also has the advantage of being the world's second largest RHD market - concentrating all RHD production in two or three factories (UK, JP, AU or SA) also allows for extra efficiencies in all the others.
LHD/RHD production isn't a big deal for Telsa (or other EV manufacturers). The firewall and dash are the same and there is no IC powertrain to get in the way of the steering column.
The best thing the UK government could do to attract Telsa would be to not legislate any accessibility standards on commercial EV charging so the non-Tesla charging landscape remains fragmented and user hostile.
Did you get your Taycan?
Yes, AIUI the non-Tesla charging infrastructure is completely crap in the UK. The manufacturers and government all need to bang their heads together to get it sorted quickly.
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
My GP did the vaccines, for our children, over a few weeks. She said that it seemed like a logical way to do it, since any reaction to a particular shot would have time to show up and be noted.
There was, when I was concerned with these things, some concern over whether the individual vaccines were both as safe, and gave the same level of protection, given that they were not the same as the ones in the British MMR.
Hard to imagine what kind of favours they could possibly get if they didn't build and operate the factory. Tax breaks on a factory that doesn't exists is a bit . . . hard to explain.
Its not like the government is writing a cheque and then they're going to vanish into the night like some cowboy builder.
I'm sure I can find examples of that in the past...
Northern Ireland is rife with examples of "major manufacturers" who stayed until the grants ran out.
Not quite along those lines, but the famous Delorean Motor Company was given millions in grants to set up shop in West Belfast.
'The reason we have refused to say whether Leo has had the MMR vaccine is because we never have commented on the medical health or treatment of our children,' he said. 'The advice to parents to have the MMR jab is one of scores of pieces of advice or campaigns the Government supports in matters ranging from under-age sex to teenage alcohol abuse or smoking, to different types of advice for very young children on a huge range of activities from breastfeeding to safe play.
'Once we comment on one, it is hard to see how we can justify not commenting on them all.' Blair wrote the statement himself at Chequers after Number 10 was contacted by his wife's family.
Those bemoaning the use of anti vaxxer are kidding themselves presenting it as noble people just wanting more info. The difference between someone who wants that and a conspiracy theorist is for the latter they'll always say it's about info or reassurance but no amount of info is ever enough, nothing is ever satisfied 100%, and they pretend there are not societal impacts. Its bullcrap.
Hard to imagine what kind of favours they could possibly get if they didn't build and operate the factory. Tax breaks on a factory that doesn't exists is a bit . . . hard to explain.
Its not like the government is writing a cheque and then they're going to vanish into the night like some cowboy builder.
I'm sure I can find examples of that in the past...
Northern Ireland is rife with examples of "major manufacturers" who stayed until the grants ran out.
Not quite along those lines, but the famous Delorean Motor Company was given millions in grants to set up shop in West Belfast.
Delorean was classic example of how not to do industrial support.
Which is why such favours tend to be things like accelerated planning permission, tax breaks based on profits, tax breaks on payroll taxes etc around the world.
Then he is falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded room. Again.
Consider smallpox. Using cowpox, or its later refinements, may have been the 1st vaccine. It saved millions from death or disfiguration. It's now history.
Or how about polio? I knew people who had to live in an iron lung. My brother had it, but was unaffected after a stay in the hospital. I believe, owing to a benighted core of people, it may still not be eradicated.
I had a case of measles that nearly felled me. Now we have a well tested triple vaccine, but owing to the aforementioned benighted, it still lurks and damages kids.
But, if people will believe the world was created 6000 yeas ago and/or vote for Trump we must acknowledge the limitless malleability of the human brain.
I would love to know what actually happens to these people. It is clearly not just people who are stupid. Wakefield was clearly not an idiot and he is not the only one. We can all think of people in the public eye who have gone full on weird.
When Plato started posting odd stuff I started to follow her on Twitter and then Gab when she got banned from twitter. The stuff was absolutely bonkers. One that springs to mind is the conspiracy theories on CNN broadcasts being faked. The stuff that was identified make the moon landings not happening look positively sane in terms of the effort CNN would have had to put together to fake stuff that didn't need faking.
Yet she didn't post this stuff earlier. It strikes me that it is very similar to cult behaviour, but what makes someone susceptible to a cult?
Wakefield is easy. He held the patent to one of the "single vaccines" that could be used to replace MMR as three separate single vaccinations. If the MMR jab could be discredited, he would make a fortune. It didn't work, he got discredited, the anti-vaxxers provided him a refuge and decent income, so he began giving them exactly what they asked for. It made him (in)famous, provided him with a model girlfriend, a steady and good income, and tenure in a crackpot university.
I didn't realise it was Elle MacPherson
That prompts the thought whether the likes of famous actors and their goops may provide a distribution channel for the nonsense.
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
My GP did the vaccines, for our children, over a few weeks. She said that it seemed like a logical way to do it, since any reaction to a particular shot would have time to show up and be noted.
There was, when I was concerned with these things, some concern over whether the individual vaccines were both as safe, and gave the same level of protection, given that they were not the same as the ones in the British MMR.
No, we had MMR. Sorry if I didn't make it plain.
Combinations that have been medially tested as a combination were fine.
The GP in question was not giving children *all* the childhood vaccines in one go.
Telegraph says Government has given up hope of deal. All a ruse like with No Deal last time or are we really headed for oblivion?
Last time wasn't a ruse. We are heading for No Deal with anybody
Covid is a handy cloak to wrap around the aftermath.
I'm more concerned about what No Deal does to the aftermath of Covid.
Compared to the economic effects of COVID, those of Brexit and a potential Scottish Independence are background noise.
The concern is that what would be a relatively small shock, in the wake of COVID might be much amplified.
As a small example, we’ve already lost the chance of the new car and battery factories being planned and built to supply Europe. (The accelerated transition to electric being one of the means by which governments will attempt to revive economies.)
There's talk of Tesla building a Gigafactory in Somerset.
They might. For now they’re already building one in Germany. Basically we’ve much reduced the chance of next generation equivalents of the Nissan plant in Sunderland
No we've not. Germany were always favourites to get the first factory with or without Brexit, their manufacturing and car industry is much greater developed than ours.
Really - Sunderland is the most productive factory in Europe without Brexit we would have been the logical choice as we had the knowledge locally...
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
It wasn't the right decision and you were putting your kids af extra risk. Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years.
Re-read my original post Mike - at the time the MMR (the one she jabbed my daughter with that very day) was the centre of a vaccine controversy. Medicines have gone wrong before - when I was a kid I came across Thalidomide children. That was a "safe" drug and it still happens - another drug "safe" enough for human trials...
I was in exactly the same boat and made the same decision. Not vaccinating was not something I would consider and if there had been no alternative I would have reluctantly gone with the MMR.
But given there were perfectly safe and viable alternatives I was willing to pay for those.
In spite of what Mike says the claims about the single shots being unsafe or less effective only came up long after when the Government was trying everything it could to make sure everyone had the MMR and were clearly politically driven. There are many countries in Europe which used single shots and would have been surprised to hear claims that their vaccines were less safe.
When it was time to get my second child vaccinated seven years later I was more than happy to go with the MMR and my first also had an MMR booster later on.
It struck me that Jeremy Corbin's story is akin to the strand in literature and films in which an ingenu is thrust into a fierce limelight and faces an array of challenges to which he is peculiarly unsuited, like Forrest Gump or Candide. There is a tragic tinge to the comedy unleashed by the situation. Perhaps we'll see Jeremy as the protagonist in a movie sometime.
Hard to imagine what kind of favours they could possibly get if they didn't build and operate the factory. Tax breaks on a factory that doesn't exists is a bit . . . hard to explain.
Its not like the government is writing a cheque and then they're going to vanish into the night like some cowboy builder.
I'm sure I can find examples of that in the past...
Northern Ireland is rife with examples of "major manufacturers" who stayed until the grants ran out.
Not quite along those lines, but the famous Delorean Motor Company was given millions in grants to set up shop in West Belfast.
One would hope that governments are a little more savvy than to simply write cheques these days.
Business rate relief based on number of people employed, planning decisions made centrally, government-built surrounding infrastructure such as roads and rail lines, sales incentives such a VAT reduction on UK-built all-electric vehicles - that sort of thing would be more appropriate in the current environment.
Telegraph says Government has given up hope of deal. All a ruse like with No Deal last time or are we really headed for oblivion?
It's a ruse. Big up the difficulty of getting a deal (and thus the possibility of there being no deal) so that when "Boris" unveils the inevitable bad deal its reception is boosted by a general feeling of relief and against-the-odds achievement. Just like last time with the exit deal. I recommend that nobody on here falls for this. I certainly won't be. If you hail a turd as chocolate you will suffer when the time comes to eat it.
Telegraph says Government has given up hope of deal. All a ruse like with No Deal last time or are we really headed for oblivion?
Last time wasn't a ruse. We are heading for No Deal with anybody
Covid is a handy cloak to wrap around the aftermath.
I'm more concerned about what No Deal does to the aftermath of Covid.
Compared to the economic effects of COVID, those of Brexit and a potential Scottish Independence are background noise.
The concern is that what would be a relatively small shock, in the wake of COVID might be much amplified.
As a small example, we’ve already lost the chance of the new car and battery factories being planned and built to supply Europe. (The accelerated transition to electric being one of the means by which governments will attempt to revive economies.)
There's talk of Tesla building a Gigafactory in Somerset.
They might. For now they’re already building one in Germany. Basically we’ve much reduced the chance of next generation equivalents of the Nissan plant in Sunderland
Each Tesla factory can produce of the order of 500K vehicles per year.
Tesla has to increase production by multiple million vehicles to achieve the gaol of being (say) 20% of world car production.
They have massive capitalisation and (now) huge investment reach - being able to make the Model 3 profitably means that each new factory is more profit.
They have a policy of trying to base production in the geographic areas of sale - the Chinese factory is for sales in China, primarily.
The only question is where the multiple other factories will go.
Quite. Where are the new Korean and Chinese battery factories being built ?
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
It wasn't the right decision and you were putting your kids af extra risk. Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years.
I will be right there waiting to get the new vaccine if and when it arrives. But surely you see the issue with the statement you have just made.
"Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years"
Well we know that is certainly not going to be the case with this jab which rather undermines your argument.
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
It wasn't the right decision and you were putting your kids af extra risk. Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years.
Re-read my original post Mike - at the time the MMR (the one she jabbed my daughter with that very day) was the centre of a vaccine controversy. Medicines have gone wrong before - when I was a kid I came across Thalidomide children. That was a "safe" drug and it still happens - another drug "safe" enough for human trials...
I was in exactly the same boat and made the same decision. Not vaccinating was not something I would consider and if there had been no alternative I would have reluctantly gone with the MMR.
But given there were perfectly safe and viable alternatives I was willing to pay for those.
In spite of what Mike says the claims about the single shots being unsafe or less effective only came up long after when the Government was trying everything it could to make sure everyone had the MMR and were clearly politically driven. There are many countries in Europe which used single shots and would have been surprised to hear claims that their vaccines were less safe.
When it was time to get my second child vaccinated seven years later I was more than happy to go with the MMR and my first also had an MMR booster later on.
Actually, during the next jab-session (with the new GP) I was told that the only reason for doing all 6 in one visit was to cut visits in half. By doing 6-in-1 it freed up another appointment slot that would be needed for 6-jabs-in-2.
We had the MMR first as those were the most likely diseases for the kids to catch. The others - polio, diptheria and another (I forget which, but probably TB) were done a few weeks later.
Hard to imagine what kind of favours they could possibly get if they didn't build and operate the factory. Tax breaks on a factory that doesn't exists is a bit . . . hard to explain.
Its not like the government is writing a cheque and then they're going to vanish into the night like some cowboy builder.
I'm sure I can find examples of that in the past...
Northern Ireland is rife with examples of "major manufacturers" who stayed until the grants ran out.
Not quite along those lines, but the famous Delorean Motor Company was given millions in grants to set up shop in West Belfast.
Delorean was classic example of how not to do industrial support.
Which is why such favours tend to be things like accelerated planning permission, tax breaks based on profits, tax breaks on payroll taxes etc around the world.
I tend to be very negative about Govts getting involved in business decisions, except for when they are strategic. They distort the market, they favour big business over small businesses because they are able to deal better with Govts and often give advantages to otherwise non viable businesses who then get a competitive advantage over more viable ones.
I think the Tories are as bad as Labour regarding this.
It struck me that Jeremy Corbin's story is akin to the strand in literature and films in which an ingenu is thrust into a fierce limelight and faces an array of challenges to which he is peculiarly unsuited, like Forrest Gump or Candide. There is a tragic tinge to the comedy unleashed by the situation. Perhaps we'll see Jeremy as the protagonist in a movie sometime.
'The reason we have refused to say whether Leo has had the MMR vaccine is because we never have commented on the medical health or treatment of our children,' he said. 'The advice to parents to have the MMR jab is one of scores of pieces of advice or campaigns the Government supports in matters ranging from under-age sex to teenage alcohol abuse or smoking, to different types of advice for very young children on a huge range of activities from breastfeeding to safe play.
'Once we comment on one, it is hard to see how we can justify not commenting on them all.' Blair wrote the statement himself at Chequers after Number 10 was contacted by his wife's family.
I always thought that last bit was a cop out.
I have never had time for Blair, but I think that statement is quite a fair one, last bit included.
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
It wasn't the right decision and you were putting your kids af extra risk. Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years.
Re-read my original post Mike - at the time the MMR (the one she jabbed my daughter with that very day) was the centre of a vaccine controversy. Medicines have gone wrong before - when I was a kid I came across Thalidomide children. That was a "safe" drug and it still happens - another drug "safe" enough for human trials...
Northwick park was a phase 1 trial - exactly what it was there for. Horrible that it went wrong, but there is always a risk doing trials and the participants get paid, and I hope, go in with eyes open to the risks.
'The reason we have refused to say whether Leo has had the MMR vaccine is because we never have commented on the medical health or treatment of our children,' he said. 'The advice to parents to have the MMR jab is one of scores of pieces of advice or campaigns the Government supports in matters ranging from under-age sex to teenage alcohol abuse or smoking, to different types of advice for very young children on a huge range of activities from breastfeeding to safe play.
'Once we comment on one, it is hard to see how we can justify not commenting on them all.' Blair wrote the statement himself at Chequers after Number 10 was contacted by his wife's family.
I always thought that last bit was a cop out.
I have never had time for Blair, but I think that statement is quite a fair one, last bit included.
It was, but the reason he was asked was because of the woo-merchant life coach that Cherie was listening to.
Ben Goldacre has an excellent timeline and presentation on the MMR 'controversy'.
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
My GP did the vaccines, for our children, over a few weeks. She said that it seemed like a logical way to do it, since any reaction to a particular shot would have time to show up and be noted.
There was, when I was concerned with these things, some concern over whether the individual vaccines were both as safe, and gave the same level of protection, given that they were not the same as the ones in the British MMR.
No, we had MMR. Sorry if I didn't make it plain.
Combinations that have been medially tested as a combination were fine.
The GP in question was not giving children *all* the childhood vaccines in one go.
As you say, different issue. Understandable, indeed sympathise. Could give a child a lifelong fear of doctors, several injections one after the other.
'The reason we have refused to say whether Leo has had the MMR vaccine is because we never have commented on the medical health or treatment of our children,' he said. 'The advice to parents to have the MMR jab is one of scores of pieces of advice or campaigns the Government supports in matters ranging from under-age sex to teenage alcohol abuse or smoking, to different types of advice for very young children on a huge range of activities from breastfeeding to safe play.
'Once we comment on one, it is hard to see how we can justify not commenting on them all.' Blair wrote the statement himself at Chequers after Number 10 was contacted by his wife's family.
I always thought that last bit was a cop out.
I have never had time for Blair, but I think that statement is quite a fair one, last bit included.
I think it pretty silly. If you're asked whether you kids have had a vaccine which you're recommending all kids would get, it's hardly commenting 'on the medical health or treatment' to just say 'sure, like everyone else'.
Hard to imagine what kind of favours they could possibly get if they didn't build and operate the factory. Tax breaks on a factory that doesn't exists is a bit . . . hard to explain.
Its not like the government is writing a cheque and then they're going to vanish into the night like some cowboy builder.
I'm sure I can find examples of that in the past...
Northern Ireland is rife with examples of "major manufacturers" who stayed until the grants ran out.
Not quite along those lines, but the famous Delorean Motor Company was given millions in grants to set up shop in West Belfast.
Delorean was classic example of how not to do industrial support.
Which is why such favours tend to be things like accelerated planning permission, tax breaks based on profits, tax breaks on payroll taxes etc around the world.
I tend to be very negative about Govts getting involved in business decisions, except for when they are strategic. They distort the market, they favour big business over small businesses because they are able to deal better with Govts and often give advantages to otherwise non viable businesses who then get a competitive advantage over more viable ones.
I think the Tories are as bad as Labour regarding this.
We are agreeing again.
The important thing is that government shouldn't be seen to pick winners, any incentive offered should be available to any producer of electric cars.
Especially in the UK, where there's lots of small specialist carmakers - if Lotus, McLaren and Morgan want to make EVs, they should be given the same incentives as Tesla.
'The reason we have refused to say whether Leo has had the MMR vaccine is because we never have commented on the medical health or treatment of our children,' he said. 'The advice to parents to have the MMR jab is one of scores of pieces of advice or campaigns the Government supports in matters ranging from under-age sex to teenage alcohol abuse or smoking, to different types of advice for very young children on a huge range of activities from breastfeeding to safe play.
'Once we comment on one, it is hard to see how we can justify not commenting on them all.' Blair wrote the statement himself at Chequers after Number 10 was contacted by his wife's family.
I always thought that last bit was a cop out.
I have never had time for Blair, but I think that statement is quite a fair one, last bit included.
As someone would advocate his appearance in court, on other matters - I think his statement was justifiable and correct.
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
It wasn't the right decision and you were putting your kids af extra risk. Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years.
Re-read my original post Mike - at the time the MMR (the one she jabbed my daughter with that very day) was the centre of a vaccine controversy. Medicines have gone wrong before - when I was a kid I came across Thalidomide children. That was a "safe" drug and it still happens - another drug "safe" enough for human trials...
I was in exactly the same boat and made the same decision. Not vaccinating was not something I would consider and if there had been no alternative I would have reluctantly gone with the MMR.
But given there were perfectly safe and viable alternatives I was willing to pay for those.
In spite of what Mike says the claims about the single shots being unsafe or less effective only came up long after when the Government was trying everything it could to make sure everyone had the MMR and were clearly politically driven. There are many countries in Europe which used single shots and would have been surprised to hear claims that their vaccines were less safe.
When it was time to get my second child vaccinated seven years later I was more than happy to go with the MMR and my first also had an MMR booster later on.
Actually, during the next jab-session (with the new GP) I was told that the only reason for doing all 6 in one visit was to cut visits in half. By doing 6-in-1 it freed up another appointment slot that would be needed for 6-jabs-in-2.
We had the MMR first as those were the most likely diseases for the kids to catch. The others - polio, diptheria and another (I forget which, but probably TB) were done a few weeks later.
When I was due to go down to Brazil in February for work I asked my GP which jabs I needed.
The answer was:
MMR (I am too old to have had it as a child and have actually had all three diseases but was advised it would be wise to have it anyway) Tetanus/Diptheria/Polio Typhoid Hepatitis A Hepatitis B Rabies Yellow Fever
The plan was for me to get the Yellow Fever privately first as it was a live vaccine and wasn't available on the NHS and then to have the other 6 vaccines together in one visit a month later.
This is just one of a number of reasons why I was glad Covid turned up and my trip was cancelled.
Telegraph says Government has given up hope of deal. All a ruse like with No Deal last time or are we really headed for oblivion?
It's a ruse. Big up the difficulty of getting a deal (and thus the possibility of there being no deal) so that when "Boris" unveils the inevitable bad deal its reception is boosted by a general feeling of relief and against-the-odds achievement. Just like last time with the exit deal. I recommend that nobody on here falls for this. I certainly won't be. If you hail a turd as chocolate you will suffer when the time comes to eat it.
Except of course Boris getting his great new deal last time was against all odds. Everyone had insisted beforehand that revisiting May's agreement and Hunt had scoffed at the idea that we could get a new deal by Halloween but Boris achieved it.
That is why only Boris made sense to be PM and why despite in normal circumstances Hunt would make a great PM he was totally inappropriate to the times. Because in order to get a compromise you need the other party to know that you are seriously prepared to walk away . . . but its by them knowing that, that you get a compromise, so you don't need to walk away.
Same will indeed happen this time. Because we're prepared to walk away the EU are being serious now and negotiating seriously, something that wouldn't have happened with May or Hunt.
UK also has the advantage of being the world's second largest RHD market - concentrating all RHD production in two or three factories (UK, JP, AU or SA) also allows for extra efficiencies in all the others.
LHD/RHD production isn't a big deal for Telsa (or other EV manufacturers). The firewall and dash are the same and there is no IC powertrain to get in the way of the steering column.
The best thing the UK government could do to attract Telsa would be to not legislate any accessibility standards on commercial EV charging so the non-Tesla charging landscape remains fragmented and user hostile.
Did you get your Taycan?
Yes, AIUI the non-Tesla charging infrastructure is completely crap in the UK. The manufacturers and government all need to bang their heads together to get it sorted quickly.
Ecotricity seem to have a monopoly on the motorway services, they are terrible and ned to be removed. Tesla have a good infrastructure of superchargers, but yesterday I was parked next to a Tesla , we were both on 50Kw chargers, the Tesla was painfully slow to charge at about 15KWh, I was getting 45 KWh.
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
My GP did the vaccines, for our children, over a few weeks. She said that it seemed like a logical way to do it, since any reaction to a particular shot would have time to show up and be noted.
There was, when I was concerned with these things, some concern over whether the individual vaccines were both as safe, and gave the same level of protection, given that they were not the same as the ones in the British MMR.
No, we had MMR. Sorry if I didn't make it plain.
Combinations that have been medially tested as a combination were fine.
The GP in question was not giving children *all* the childhood vaccines in one go.
As you say, different issue. Understandable, indeed sympathise. Could give a child a lifelong fear of doctors, several injections one after the other.
The GPs thinking (which we talked about) was that all medicines have a slight reaction risk. By giving the vaccinations on different dates, any reaction could be linked to the cause.
Hard to imagine what kind of favours they could possibly get if they didn't build and operate the factory. Tax breaks on a factory that doesn't exists is a bit . . . hard to explain.
Its not like the government is writing a cheque and then they're going to vanish into the night like some cowboy builder.
I'm sure I can find examples of that in the past...
Northern Ireland is rife with examples of "major manufacturers" who stayed until thy e grants ran out.
Not quite along those lines, but the famous Delorean Motor Company was given mil lions in grants to set up shop in West Belfast.
Delorean was classic example of how not to do industrial support.
Which is why such favours tend to be things like accelerated planning permission, tax breaks based on profits, tax breaks on payroll taxes etc around the world.
I tend to be very negative about Govts getting involved in business decisions, except for when they are strategic. They distort the market, they favour big business over small businesses because they are able to deal better with Govts and often give advantages to otherwise non viable businesses who then get a competitive advantage over more viable ones.
I think the Tories are as bad as Labour regarding this.
We are agreeing again.
The important thing is that government shouldn't be seen to pick winners, any incentive offered should be available to any producer of electric cars.
Especially in the UK, where there's lots of small specialist carmakers - if Lotus, McLaren and Morgan want to make EVs, they should be given the same incentives as Tesla.
Agreed 100%.
I have no problems with incentives or tax cuts so long as the are consistent. If an employer is prepared to take over derelict land and build a massive new factory paying thousands of employees via PAYE I have no qualms with tax breaks applying on eg Business Rates etc . . . there'd be no meaningful Business Rates coming in without the factory either. One more reason why land-based business taxes should be abolished.
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
My GP did the vaccines, for our children, over a few weeks. She said that it seemed like a logical way to do it, since any reaction to a particular shot would have time to show up and be noted.
There was, when I was concerned with these things, some concern over whether the individual vaccines were both as safe, and gave the same level of protection, given that they were not the same as the ones in the British MMR.
No, we had MMR. Sorry if I didn't make it plain.
Combinations that have been medially tested as a combination were fine.
The GP in question was not giving children *all* the childhood vaccines in one go.
As you say, different issue. Understandable, indeed sympathise. Could give a child a lifelong fear of doctors, several injections one after the other.
The GPs thinking (which we talked about) was that all medicines have a slight reaction risk. By giving the vaccinations on different dates, any reaction could be linked to the cause.
It struck me that Jeremy Corbin's story is akin to the strand in literature and films in which an ingenu is thrust into a fierce limelight and faces an array of challenges to which he is peculiarly unsuited, like Forrest Gump or Candide. There is a tragic tinge to the comedy unleashed by the situation. Perhaps we'll see Jeremy as the protagonist in a movie sometime.
It's frustrating because there is a lot to be genuinely concerned about so far as China is concerned but Trump is so obviously playing politics it undermines the American position.
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
It wasn't the right decision and you were putting your kids af extra risk. Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years.
I will be right there waiting to get the new vaccine if and when it arrives. But surely you see the issue with the statement you have just made.
"Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years"
Well we know that is certainly not going to be the case with this jab which rather undermines your argument.
While that's true, it's also true that in terms of the immunology, we'll be better informed than with most previous vaccines simply because of the advancement in knowledge over the last decade or so (both in methods of detection via improved techniques, and fundamental knowledge of the workings of the immune system).
And the sheer resources thrown at the problem have been immense.
Then he is falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded room. Again.
Consider smallpox. Using cowpox, or its later refinements, may have been the 1st vaccine. It saved millions from death or disfiguration. It's now history.
Or how about polio? I knew people who had to live in an iron lung. My brother had it, but was unaffected after a stay in the hospital. I believe, owing to a benighted core of people, it may still not be eradicated.
I had a case of measles that nearly felled me. Now we have a well tested triple vaccine, but owing to the aforementioned benighted, it still lurks and damages kids.
But, if people will believe the world was created 6000 yeas ago and/or vote for Trump we must acknowledge the limitless malleability of the human brain.
I would love to know what actually happens to these people. It is clearly not just people who are stupid. Wakefield was clearly not an idiot and he is not the only one. We can all think of people in the public eye who have gone full on weird.
When Plato started posting odd stuff I started to follow her on Twitter and then Gab when she got banned from twitter. The stuff was absolutely bonkers. One that springs to mind is the conspiracy theories on CNN broadcasts being faked. The stuff that was identified make the moon landings not happening look positively sane in terms of the effort CNN would have had to put together to fake stuff that didn't need faking.
Yet she didn't post this stuff earlier. It strikes me that it is very similar to cult behaviour, but what makes someone susceptible to a cult?
Plato's theory that CNN used rear-projection effect to fake a report from onboard ship took in a prominent poster on here. (Chap with a distinctive prose style but several aliases.)
It struck me that Jeremy Corbin's story is akin to the strand in literature and films in which an ingenu is thrust into a fierce limelight and faces an array of challenges to which he is peculiarly unsuited, like Forrest Gump or Candide. There is a tragic tinge to the comedy unleashed by the situation. Perhaps we'll see Jeremy as the protagonist in a movie sometime.
Hard to imagine what kind of favours they could possibly get if they didn't build and operate the factory. Tax breaks on a factory that doesn't exists is a bit . . . hard to explain.
Its not like the government is writing a cheque and then they're going to vanish into the night like some cowboy builder.
I'm sure I can find examples of that in the past...
Northern Ireland is rife with examples of "major manufacturers" who stayed until the grants ran out.
Not quite along those lines, but the famous Delorean Motor Company was given millions in grants to set up shop in West Belfast.
Delorean was classic example of how not to do industrial support.
Which is why such favours tend to be things like accelerated planning permission, tax breaks based on profits, tax breaks on payroll taxes etc around the world.
I tend to be very negative about Govts getting involved in business decisions, except for when they are strategic. They distort the market, they favour big business over small businesses because they are able to deal better with Govts and often give advantages to otherwise non viable businesses who then get a competitive advantage over more viable ones.
I think the Tories are as bad as Labour regarding this.
We are agreeing again.
The important thing is that government shouldn't be seen to pick winners, any incentive offered should be available to any producer of electric cars.
Especially in the UK, where there's lots of small specialist carmakers - if Lotus, McLaren and Morgan want to make EVs, they should be given the same incentives as Tesla.
Of course we do )
One of the worst in my opinion was the Training and Enterprise Councils introduced by Michael Heseltine. Lots of people employed doing nothing but ticking boxes and supplying worthless certificates to individuals. Personally I made money providing these organsiations with services as did many people and organisations. But it was all work for the sake of work with no visible improvement to the economy or humanity but just shuffling taxpayers money around.
It struck me that Jeremy Corbin's story is akin to the strand in literature and films in which an ingenu is thrust into a fierce limelight and faces an array of challenges to which he is peculiarly unsuited, like Forrest Gump or Candide. There is a tragic tinge to the comedy unleashed by the situation. Perhaps we'll see Jeremy as the protagonist in a movie sometime.
It's frustrating because there is a lot to be genuinely concerned about so far as China is concerned but Trump is so obviously playing politics it undermines the American position.
He's making the right decisions (as have been made in the UK and other Western states), but the presentation looks like his cares more about boxing in the 'weak on China' Democrats, than he does about the actual human rights abuses going on in China.
But it's an election year, so pretty much normal for American politics.
It struck me that Jeremy Corbin's story is akin to the strand in literature and films in which an ingenu is thrust into a fierce limelight and faces an array of challenges to which he is peculiarly unsuited, like Forrest Gump or Candide. There is a tragic tinge to the comedy unleashed by the situation. Perhaps we'll see Jeremy as the protagonist in a movie sometime.
Not sure that Komrade Korbyn is that naive, or innocent, though.
Of course if Corbyn is to be damned by the report - what about all thise others in the shadow cabinet who loyally served him and stayed quiet for so long.... over to you Comrade Starmer...
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
It wasn't the right decision and you were putting your kids af extra risk. Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years.
I will be right there waiting to get the new vaccine if and when it arrives. But surely you see the issue with the statement you have just made.
"Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years"
Well we know that is certainly not going to be the case with this jab which rather undermines your argument.
While that's true, it's also true that in terms of the immunology, we'll be better informed than with most previous vaccines simply because of the advancement in knowledge over the last decade or so (both in methods of detection via improved techniques, and fundamental knowledge of the workings of the immune system).
And the sheer resources thrown at the problem have been immense.
I am reasonably hopeful that one of the major benefits of Covid is going to be a huge leap forward in the understanding of viruses, their infection pathways, their treatment and their prevention. What has been a neglected area of science for far too long has received a massive surge in resources and attention. Hopefully the benefits will go well beyond Covid itself.
And yet we're rewarding them with inflation busting pay rises. Rewards for their failure and destroying the education of millions of children because the unions decided to hold the nation to ransom.
It's time for the government to order them back to work fully in mid August and get all children back to school.
At my nephews school, the start of term in September is being delayed by two days for two Inset days
Hard to imagine what kind of favours they could possibly get if they didn't build and operate the factory. Tax breaks on a factory that doesn't exists is a bit . . . hard to explain.
Its not like the government is writing a cheque and then they're going to vanish into the night like some cowboy builder.
I'm sure I can find examples of that in the past...
Northern Ireland is rife with examples of "major manufacturers" who stayed until thy e grants ran out.
Not quite along those lines, but the famous Delorean Motor Company was given mil lions in grants to set up shop in West Belfast.
Delorean was classic example of how not to do industrial support.
Which is why such favours tend to be things like accelerated planning permission, tax breaks based on profits, tax breaks on payroll taxes etc around the world.
I tend to be very negative about Govts getting involved in business decisions, except for when they are strategic. They distort the market, they favour big business over small businesses because they are able to deal better with Govts and often give advantages to otherwise non viable businesses who then get a competitive advantage over more viable ones.
I think the Tories are as bad as Labour regarding this.
We are agreeing again.
The important thing is that government shouldn't be seen to pick winners, any incentive offered should be available to any producer of electric cars.
Especially in the UK, where there's lots of small specialist carmakers - if Lotus, McLaren and Morgan want to make EVs, they should be given the same incentives as Tesla.
It struck me that Jeremy Corbin's story is akin to the strand in literature and films in which an ingenu is thrust into a fierce limelight and faces an array of challenges to which he is peculiarly unsuited, like Forrest Gump or Candide. There is a tragic tinge to the comedy unleashed by the situation. Perhaps we'll see Jeremy as the protagonist in a movie sometime.
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
It wasn't the right decision and you were putting your kids af extra risk. Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years.
I will be right there waiting to get the new vaccine if and when it arrives. But surely you see the issue with the statement you have just made.
"Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years"
Well we know that is certainly not going to be the case with this jab which rather undermines your argument.
While that's true, it's also true that in terms of the immunology, we'll be better informed than with most previous vaccines simply because of the advancement in knowledge over the last decade or so (both in methods of detection via improved techniques, and fundamental knowledge of the workings of the immune system).
And the sheer resources thrown at the problem have been immense.
What is particularly annoying is that because UK walked out of, and indeed, effectively threw out, the European Medicines Agency we lost immediate access to Europe-wide adverse incident reporting. Obviously we'll get reports eventually, but short term after release of the vaccine we'll be relying on adverse incidents reported in UK.
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
It wasn't the right decision and you were putting your kids af extra risk. Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years.
I will be right there waiting to get the new vaccine if and when it arrives. But surely you see the issue with the statement you have just made.
"Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years"
Well we know that is certainly not going to be the case with this jab which rather undermines your argument.
While that's true, it's also true that in terms of the immunology, we'll be better informed than with most previous vaccines simply because of the advancement in knowledge over the last decade or so (both in methods of detection via improved techniques, and fundamental knowledge of the workings of the immune system).
And the sheer resources thrown at the problem have been immense.
What is particularly annoying is that because UK walked out of, and indeed, effectively threw out, the European Medicines Agency we lost immediate access to Europe-wide adverse incident reporting. Obviously we'll get reports eventually, but short term after release of the vaccine we'll be relying on adverse incidents reported in UK.
But UK adverse effects are better than EU ones aren’t they?
Then he is falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded room. Again.
Consider smallpox. Using cowpox, or its later refinements, may have been the 1st vaccine. It saved millions from death or disfiguration. It's now history.
Or how about polio? I knew people who had to live in an iron lung. My brother had it, but was unaffected after a stay in the hospital. I believe, owing to a benighted core of people, it may still not be eradicated.
I had a case of measles that nearly felled me. Now we have a well tested triple vaccine, but owing to the aforementioned benighted, it still lurks and damages kids.
But, if people will believe the world was created 6000 yeas ago and/or vote for Trump we must acknowledge the limitless malleability of the human brain.
I would love to know what actually happens to these people. It is clearly not just people who are stupid. Wakefield was clearly not an idiot and he is not the only one. We can all think of people in the public eye who have gone full on weird.
When Plato started posting odd stuff I started to follow her on Twitter and then Gab when she got banned from twitter. The stuff was absolutely bonkers. One that springs to mind is the conspiracy theories on CNN broadcasts being faked. The stuff that was identified make the moon landings not happening look positively sane in terms of the effort CNN would have had to put together to fake stuff that didn't need faking.
Yet she didn't post this stuff earlier. It strikes me that it is very similar to cult behaviour, but what makes someone susceptible to a cult?
Plato's theory that CNN used rear-projection effect to fake a report from onboard ship took in a prominent poster on here. (Chap with a distinctive prose style but several aliases.)
What was the context? A lot news reports use "blue screening" for the backgrounds, rather than actually have correspondent X standing in front of Y, outside.
Hard to imagine what kind of favours they could possibly get if they didn't build and operate the factory. Tax breaks on a factory that doesn't exists is a bit . . . hard to explain.
Its not like the government is writing a cheque and then they're going to vanish into the night like some cowboy builder.
I'm sure I can find examples of that in the past...
Northern Ireland is rife with examples of "major manufacturers" who stayed until the grants ran out.
Not quite along those lines, but the famous Delorean Motor Company was given millions in grants to set up shop in West Belfast.
Delorean was classic example of how not to do industrial support.
Which is why such favours tend to be things like accelerated planning permission, tax breaks based on profits, tax breaks on payroll taxes etc around the world.
I tend to be very negative about Govts getting involved in business decisions, except for when they are strategic. They distort the market, they favour big business over small businesses because they are able to deal better with Govts and often give advantages to otherwise non viable businesses who then get a competitive advantage over more viable ones.
I think the Tories are as bad as Labour regarding this.
We are agreeing again.
The important thing is that government shouldn't be seen to pick winners, any incentive offered should be available to any producer of electric cars.
Especially in the UK, where there's lots of small specialist carmakers - if Lotus, McLaren and Morgan want to make EVs, they should be given the same incentives as Tesla.
At the moment, we're offering them all equal disincentives...
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
It wasn't the right decision and you were putting your kids af extra risk. Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years.
I will be right there waiting to get the new vaccine if and when it arrives. But surely you see the issue with the statement you have just made.
"Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years"
Well we know that is certainly not going to be the case with this jab which rather undermines your argument.
While that's true, it's also true that in terms of the immunology, we'll be better informed than with most previous vaccines simply because of the advancement in knowledge over the last decade or so (both in methods of detection via improved techniques, and fundamental knowledge of the workings of the immune system).
And the sheer resources thrown at the problem have been immense.
What is particularly annoying is that because UK walked out of, and indeed, effectively threw out, the European Medicines Agency we lost immediate access to Europe-wide adverse incident reporting. Obviously we'll get reports eventually, but short term after release of the vaccine we'll be relying on adverse incidents reported in UK.
But UK adverse effects are better than EU ones aren’t they?
Then he is falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded room. Again.
Consider smallpox. Using cowpox, or its later refinements, may have been the 1st vaccine. It saved millions from death or disfiguration. It's now history.
Or how about polio? I knew people who had to live in an iron lung. My brother had it, but was unaffected after a stay in the hospital. I believe, owing to a benighted core of people, it may still not be eradicated.
I had a case of measles that nearly felled me. Now we have a well tested triple vaccine, but owing to the aforementioned benighted, it still lurks and damages kids.
But, if people will believe the world was created 6000 yeas ago and/or vote for Trump we must acknowledge the limitless malleability of the human brain.
I would love to know what actually happens to these people. It is clearly not just people who are stupid. Wakefield was clearly not an idiot and he is not the only one. We can all think of people in the public eye who have gone full on weird.
When Plato started posting odd stuff I started to follow her on Twitter and then Gab when she got banned from twitter. The stuff was absolutely bonkers. One that springs to mind is the conspiracy theories on CNN broadcasts being faked. The stuff that was identified make the moon landings not happening look positively sane in terms of the effort CNN would have had to put together to fake stuff that didn't need faking.
Yet she didn't post this stuff earlier. It strikes me that it is very similar to cult behaviour, but what makes someone susceptible to a cult?
Plato's theory that CNN used rear-projection effect to fake a report from onboard ship took in a prominent poster on here. (Chap with a distinctive prose style but several aliases.)
I remember it well. I was heavily involved in the discussion. The really mad bit was the reporter was in Turkey at the time anyway so it was no big deal for him to get on the boat to report. It was literally in driving distance for him. However instead CNN apparently built a set of the front of a boat that rocked and swayed with the dardanelles strait in the background. And this was live as well which was easily verifiable because of the clearly marked American destroyer in view and the clear background it was passing.
And yet we're rewarding them with inflation busting pay rises. Rewards for their failure and destroying the education of millions of children because the unions decided to hold the nation to ransom.
It's time for the government to order them back to work fully in mid August and get all children back to school.
At my nephews school, the start of term in September is being delayed by two days for two Inset days
That is one fewer then we have in normal years.
There are 5 INSET days spread out throughout the school year, it is normally up to the LA when they occur. I would suspect they are allowing this "extra" day to help schools make special arrangements.
UK also has the advantage of being the world's second largest RHD market - concentrating all RHD production in two or three factories (UK, JP, AU or SA) also allows for extra efficiencies in all the others.
LHD/RHD production isn't a big deal for Telsa (or other EV manufacturers). The firewall and dash are the same and there is no IC powertrain to get in the way of the steering column.
The best thing the UK government could do to attract Telsa would be to not legislate any accessibility standards on commercial EV charging so the non-Tesla charging landscape remains fragmented and user hostile.
Did you get your Taycan?
My wife leases it through her business so my opportunities for high voltage hoonage are limited but it's pretty impressive. The steering is very 911like and it's stupidly fast - I've been to 145mph in it. Porsche took a typically brave and innovative decision to put a PDK transmission in it which really sets it above other performance oriented EVs as it is geared to take off from a dig but can still maximise battery life at motorway speeds.
I don't the market is quite ready for a 911e as the 911 brand is Porsche's crown jewel and they won't do an electric one until is better than an IC one. I do think they'll do a 748 e-Boxster with the tech from the 2wd Asian market Taycan soon though.
This FT opinion piece has received more than 1000 comments. Must be something of a record in recent times. This is a topic that clearly engages an important demographic, and they are not happy bunnies. Johnson is pretty much universally considered to be making a total cluster**** of this issue.
‘Scotland may be the price of Boris Johnson’s place in history’ - UK prime minister will have to fight to save the Union from himself
...Mr Johnson helped cause the problem. The 2014 independence referendum should have killed the issue for a generation. But Brexit, which Scotland voted against, revived it. Scots then saw Mr Johnson topple Theresa May, because her approach prioritised saving the Union...
...He is now discussing a Scottish tour but this might go down as well as a royal progress by the conquering knights of Edward I. Mr Johnson is, in the words of one Unionist, “irredeemably toxic to Scots”.
...One leading unionist observes: “I am very pessimistic. The only real grounds for optimism is that people in London are now very worried and that the cabinet office is getting engaged.” Another adds: “London has now seen what they are dealing with. The SNP are not the Liberal Democrats.”
...UK dealings with the devolved administrations are characterised by an almost colonial mindset and need a rethink. One former Downing Street staffer said: “This is not just about politicians. Whitehall also too often treats the first ministers of Scotland and Wales like regional mayors rather than the leaders of countries.”
...This will only get worse as the US trade talks reach a head. With vocal Scottish opposition to weakening food standards, Mr Johnson may be forced to choose between shoring up the Union and the prize of a US trade deal.
That Unionists are waking up to the danger does not mean they are any closer to finding solutions. Most agree that they must find “an emotional argument” for the union. One also argues for small signals like changing the name of the Bank of England to the UK Central Bank.
...Generationally and politically the tide appears to be flowing towards independence. Mr Johnson’s temptation will be to smother Scotland with cash, and hope to prevent an SNP majority next year...
...Mr Johnson is drawn to such brinkmanship and sets great store in his political charm, but he knows his Brexit vision has powered the nationalist surge. If Scotland goes, it will be a calamity he has largely visited upon himself. And history will not be kind.
So really Brexit has not made that much difference and we know Boris respects the fact 2014 was a 'once in a generation referendum' anyway
45% of Scots did not vote Yes - 45% of those voting did. Which means that your figures are not comparable as you are including DKs. And that Wiki page is out of date, it doesn't include recent polling.
It does include recent polling, no poll this year has had Yes over 50% including don't knows and that goes right up to polling from the last month.
As Quebec showed in 1995 don't knows tend to go No
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
It wasn't the right decision and you were putting your kids af extra risk. Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years.
Re-read my original post Mike - at the time the MMR (the one she jabbed my daughter with that very day) was the centre of a vaccine controversy. Medicines have gone wrong before - when I was a kid I came across Thalidomide children. That was a "safe" drug and it still happens - another drug "safe" enough for human trials...
I was in exactly the same boat and made the same decision. Not vaccinating was not something I would consider and if there had been no alternative I would have reluctantly gone with the MMR.
But given there were perfectly safe and viable alternatives I was willing to pay for those.
In spite of what Mike says the claims about the single shots being unsafe or less effective only came up long after when the Government was trying everything it could to make sure everyone had the MMR and were clearly politically driven. There are many countries in Europe which used single shots and would have been surprised to hear claims that their vaccines were less safe.
When it was time to get my second child vaccinated seven years later I was more than happy to go with the MMR and my first also had an MMR booster later on.
Actually, during the next jab-session (with the new GP) I was told that the only reason for doing all 6 in one visit was to cut visits in half. By doing 6-in-1 it freed up another appointment slot that would be needed for 6-jabs-in-2.
We had the MMR first as those were the most likely diseases for the kids to catch. The others - polio, diptheria and another (I forget which, but probably TB) were done a few weeks later.
Yes, that's the reason and it's a good one. If you do two visits then someone else didn't get that second appointment. If everyone does two visits then the staff costs of the vaccine programme double. I've no problem with someone paying to get vaccines privately if they don't want to follow the standard procedure in a more expensive way, but I do have a bit of a problem with people wasting NHS resources for no good reason (it means I either have to pay more taxes or I/my family will have to wait longer to see the GP/specialist/for surgery).
Then he is falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded room. Again.
Consider smallpox. Using cowpox, or its later refinements, may have been the 1st vaccine. It saved millions from death or disfiguration. It's now history.
Or how about polio? I knew people who had to live in an iron lung. My brother had it, but was unaffected after a stay in the hospital. I believe, owing to a benighted core of people, it may still not be eradicated.
I had a case of measles that nearly felled me. Now we have a well tested triple vaccine, but owing to the aforementioned benighted, it still lurks and damages kids.
But, if people will believe the world was created 6000 yeas ago and/or vote for Trump we must acknowledge the limitless malleability of the human brain.
I would love to know what actually happens to these people. It is clearly not just people who are stupid. Wakefield was clearly not an idiot and he is not the only one. We can all think of people in the public eye who have gone full on weird.
When Plato started posting odd stuff I started to follow her on Twitter and then Gab when she got banned from twitter. The stuff was absolutely bonkers. One that springs to mind is the conspiracy theories on CNN broadcasts being faked. The stuff that was identified make the moon landings not happening look positively sane in terms of the effort CNN would have had to put together to fake stuff that didn't need faking.
Yet she didn't post this stuff earlier. It strikes me that it is very similar to cult behaviour, but what makes someone susceptible to a cult?
Plato's theory that CNN used rear-projection effect to fake a report from onboard ship took in a prominent poster on here. (Chap with a distinctive prose style but several aliases.)
What was the context? A lot news reports use "blue screening" for the backgrounds, rather than actually have correspondent X standing in front of Y, outside.
See my post. Can supply more info if you want it, but Plato was claiming that the reporter was pretending to be on a boat and that it was a mock up in front of a screen of the water, coast and destroyer.
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
It wasn't the right decision and you were putting your kids af extra risk. Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years.
I will be right there waiting to get the new vaccine if and when it arrives. But surely you see the issue with the statement you have just made.
"Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years"
Well we know that is certainly not going to be the case with this jab which rather undermines your argument.
While that's true, it's also true that in terms of the immunology, we'll be better informed than with most previous vaccines simply because of the advancement in knowledge over the last decade or so (both in methods of detection via improved techniques, and fundamental knowledge of the workings of the immune system).
And the sheer resources thrown at the problem have been immense.
I am reasonably hopeful that one of the major benefits of Covid is going to be a huge leap forward in the understanding of viruses, their infection pathways, their treatment and their prevention. What has been a neglected area of science for far too long has received a massive surge in resources and attention. Hopefully the benefits will go well beyond Covid itself.
Agreed. Genetic analysis and immune knowledge have been steadily and rapidly improving - but basic things like the science of respiratory virus kinetics (aerosol viability, travel etc) and dosage response is incredibly patchy.
For example, we still have little or no idea of what is the minimum initial dose of this virus which results in infection, and whether there's a dose response in terms of the likely severity of the disease in an individual. Similarly, the papers underpinning the WHO's advice on masks dated back several decades.
UK also has the advantage of being the world's second largest RHD market - concentrating all RHD production in two or three factories (UK, JP, AU or SA) also allows for extra efficiencies in all the others.
LHD/RHD production isn't a big deal for Telsa (or other EV manufacturers). The firewall and dash are the same and there is no IC powertrain to get in the way of the steering column.
The best thing the UK government could do to attract Telsa would be to not legislate any accessibility standards on commercial EV charging so the non-Tesla charging landscape remains fragmented and user hostile.
Did you get your Taycan?
Yes, AIUI the non-Tesla charging infrastructure is completely crap in the UK. The manufacturers and government all need to bang their heads together to get it sorted quickly.
Ecotricity seem to have a monopoly on the motorway services, they are terrible and ned to be removed. Tesla have a good infrastructure of superchargers, but yesterday I was parked next to a Tesla , we were both on 50Kw chargers, the Tesla was painfully slow to charge at about 15KWh, I was getting 45 KWh.
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
It wasn't the right decision and you were putting your kids af extra risk. Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years.
I will be right there waiting to get the new vaccine if and when it arrives. But surely you see the issue with the statement you have just made.
"Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years"
Well we know that is certainly not going to be the case with this jab which rather undermines your argument.
While that's true, it's also true that in terms of the immunology, we'll be better informed than with most previous vaccines simply because of the advancement in knowledge over the last decade or so (both in methods of detection via improved techniques, and fundamental knowledge of the workings of the immune system).
And the sheer resources thrown at the problem have been immense.
Yep I understand that and as I say I will take the vaccine as soon as it is offered.
But it doesn't change the fact that vaccine trials normally take years for a number of reasons and one of them is to study the longer term effects. Not something that is possible if someone wants to rush something out by the end of the year.
It struck me that Jeremy Corbin's story is akin to the strand in literature and films in which an ingenu is thrust into a fierce limelight and faces an array of challenges to which he is peculiarly unsuited, like Forrest Gump or Candide. There is a tragic tinge to the comedy unleashed by the situation. Perhaps we'll see Jeremy as the protagonist in a movie sometime.
And yet we're rewarding them with inflation busting pay rises. Rewards for their failure and destroying the education of millions of children because the unions decided to hold the nation to ransom.
It's time for the government to order them back to work fully in mid August and get all children back to school.
At my nephews school, the start of term in September is being delayed by two days for two Inset days
That is one fewer then we have in normal years.
There are 5 INSET days spread out throughout the school year, it is normally up to the LA when they occur. I would suspect they are allowing this "extra" day to help schools make special arrangements.
There are 5 INSET days but it's up to an individual school as to when they are taken. LA's have a say in when they (and school holidays) occur but their desires can be over riden by local authority schools (around here Catholic schools always had different Easter holidays as the Catholic secondary school sends 70 helpers to Lourdes for HCPT's Easter Pilgrimage https://www.hcpt.org.uk/
Taking 2 INSET days at the beginning of the school year is very normal and it's often more if significant changes are occurring (usually a new head but Covid would be equally valid).
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
It wasn't the right decision and you were putting your kids af extra risk. Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years.
I will be right there waiting to get the new vaccine if and when it arrives. But surely you see the issue with the statement you have just made.
"Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years"
Well we know that is certainly not going to be the case with this jab which rather undermines your argument.
While that's true, it's also true that in terms of the immunology, we'll be better informed than with most previous vaccines simply because of the advancement in knowledge over the last decade or so (both in methods of detection via improved techniques, and fundamental knowledge of the workings of the immune system).
And the sheer resources thrown at the problem have been immense.
What is particularly annoying is that because UK walked out of, and indeed, effectively threw out, the European Medicines Agency we lost immediate access to Europe-wide adverse incident reporting. Obviously we'll get reports eventually, but short term after release of the vaccine we'll be relying on adverse incidents reported in UK.
But UK adverse effects are better than EU ones aren’t they?
UK also has the advantage of being the world's second largest RHD market - concentrating all RHD production in two or three factories (UK, JP, AU or SA) also allows for extra efficiencies in all the others.
LHD/RHD production isn't a big deal for Telsa (or other EV manufacturers). The firewall and dash are the same and there is no IC powertrain to get in the way of the steering column.
The best thing the UK government could do to attract Telsa would be to not legislate any accessibility standards on commercial EV charging so the non-Tesla charging landscape remains fragmented and user hostile.
Did you get your Taycan?
My wife leases it through her business so my opportunities for high voltage hoonage are limited but it's pretty impressive. The steering is very 911like and it's stupidly fast - I've been to 145mph in it. Porsche took a typically brave and innovative decision to put a PDK transmission in it which really sets it above other performance oriented EVs as it is geared to take off from a dig but can still maximise battery life at motorway speeds.
I don't the market is quite ready for a 911e as the 911 brand is Porsche's crown jewel and they won't do an electric one until is better than an IC one. I do think they'll do a 748 e-Boxster with the tech from the 2wd Asian market Taycan soon though.
I'm hoping to get a test drive in one, apparently they'll be transplanting a version of the powertrain in to a Macan too. A good point about the gearbox, it's a big differentiator from the Tesla, apart from the interior which is miles better of course. Can't see much of a market for an electric Boxster, it'll be way too heavy to be fun on the twistys if they can get enough batteries in to give it a decent range.
Personally I went the other way, have got one of the new Cayman GTS 4.0s on order at the moment - the last hurrah for three pedals and a n/a engine!
And yet we're rewarding them with inflation busting pay rises. Rewards for their failure and destroying the education of millions of children because the unions decided to hold the nation to ransom.
It's time for the government to order them back to work fully in mid August and get all children back to school.
At my nephews school, the start of term in September is being delayed by two days for two Inset days
That is one fewer then we have in normal years.
There are 5 INSET days spread out throughout the school year, it is normally up to the LA when they occur. I would suspect they are allowing this "extra" day to help schools make special arrangements.
There are 5 INSET days but it's up to an individual school as to when they are taken. LA's have a say in when they (and school holidays) occur but their desires can be over riden by local authority schools (around here Catholic schools always had different Easter holidays as the Catholic secondary school sends 70 helpers to Lourdes for HCPT's Easter Pilgrimage https://www.hcpt.org.uk/
Taking 2 INSET days at the beginning of the school year is very normal and it's often more if significant changes are occurring (usually a new head but Covid would be equally valid).
Thank you, I stand corrected. I finished my teaching career in the private sector and we used to have 3 inset deays at the start of the year, and they weren't solely used for training either. Those 3 days were usually at the end of August or before the BH.
It struck me that Jeremy Corbin's story is akin to the strand in literature and films in which an ingenu is thrust into a fierce limelight and faces an array of challenges to which he is peculiarly unsuited, like Forrest Gump or Candide. There is a tragic tinge to the comedy unleashed by the situation. Perhaps we'll see Jeremy as the protagonist in a movie sometime.
And yet we're rewarding them with inflation busting pay rises. Rewards for their failure and destroying the education of millions of children because the unions decided to hold the nation to ransom.
It's time for the government to order them back to work fully in mid August and get all children back to school.
At my nephews school, the start of term in September is being delayed by two days for two Inset days
That is one fewer then we have in normal years.
There are 5 INSET days spread out throughout the school year, it is normally up to the LA when they occur. I would suspect they are allowing this "extra" day to help schools make special arrangements.
Telegraph says Government has given up hope of deal. All a ruse like with No Deal last time or are we really headed for oblivion?
Last time wasn't a ruse. We are heading for No Deal with anybody
Covid is a handy cloak to wrap around the aftermath.
I'm more concerned about what No Deal does to the aftermath of Covid.
Compared to the economic effects of COVID, those of Brexit and a potential Scottish Independence are background noise.
The concern is that what would be a relatively small shock, in the wake of COVID might be much amplified.
As a small example, we’ve already lost the chance of the new car and battery factories being planned and built to supply Europe. (The accelerated transition to electric being one of the means by which governments will attempt to revive economies.)
There's talk of Tesla building a Gigafactory in Somerset.
Talk is cheap - especially when you are seeking favours...
If Tesla is to achieve its mission: "Tesla’s mission is to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy" it will need factories in all the major markets. The reason the UK wasn't in line for the European Gigafactory was explained by Elon Musk in that article: "Musk previously stated that Tesla looked at the UK for a possible factory location before choosing to build its first European Gigafactory near Berlin, but they thought it “too risky to put a Gigafactory in the UK” due to “Brexit uncertainty”.
The west country location may not be a full GigaFactory, but hopefully we'll get something. From that article: "It’s just hard to believe that Tesla would be looking for another factory in Europe even though they barely started construction on their first one near Berlin.
But with the UK government desperate to boost the economy after the pandemic, Tesla might be getting a sweet incentive package to land a factory in the UK.
We also recently learned that Tesla has applied to virtually become an electric utility in the UK, which could mean that they plan to expand Tesla Energy in the market."
The UK market was 2.3 million cars last year. So 10-20% of that would require an entire Gigafactory to supply.
Eventually, currently the total EV market is much lower than 20% and can be handled from Gigafactory Berlin.
And yet we're rewarding them with inflation busting pay rises. Rewards for their failure and destroying the education of millions of children because the unions decided to hold the nation to ransom.
It's time for the government to order them back to work fully in mid August and get all children back to school.
At my nephews school, the start of term in September is being delayed by two days for two Inset days
That is one fewer then we have in normal years.
There are 5 INSET days spread out throughout the school year, it is normally up to the LA when they occur. I would suspect they are allowing this "extra" day to help schools make special arrangements.
There are 5 INSET days but it's up to an individual school as to when they are taken. LA's have a say in when they (and school holidays) occur but their desires can be over riden by local authority schools (around here Catholic schools always had different Easter holidays as the Catholic secondary school sends 70 helpers to Lourdes for HCPT's Easter Pilgrimage https://www.hcpt.org.uk/
Taking 2 INSET days at the beginning of the school year is very normal and it's often more if significant changes are occurring (usually a new head but Covid would be equally valid).
HCPT is an awesome charity! I did a few trips as an auxiliary helper with them a couple of decades ago, and try to support them now whenever I can.
Even if you're not religious yourself, the way the often seriously sick kids enjoy the trip is genuinely life-affirming.
No shit Sherlock. Because the Tories won the election massively and won or were targeting the towns up and down the country. It would be shocking if there were many towns that aren't in Tory seats or Tory targets on the list since there aren't that many towns not either in Tory constituencies or Tory targets.
It struck me that Jeremy Corbin's story is akin to the strand in literature and films in which an ingenu is thrust into a fierce limelight and faces an array of challenges to which he is peculiarly unsuited, like Forrest Gump or Candide. There is a tragic tinge to the comedy unleashed by the situation. Perhaps we'll see Jeremy as the protagonist in a movie sometime.
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
It wasn't the right decision and you were putting your kids af extra risk. Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years.
I will be right there waiting to get the new vaccine if and when it arrives. But surely you see the issue with the statement you have just made.
"Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years"
Well we know that is certainly not going to be the case with this jab which rather undermines your argument.
While that's true, it's also true that in terms of the immunology, we'll be better informed than with most previous vaccines simply because of the advancement in knowledge over the last decade or so (both in methods of detection via improved techniques, and fundamental knowledge of the workings of the immune system).
And the sheer resources thrown at the problem have been immense.
I am reasonably hopeful that one of the major benefits of Covid is going to be a huge leap forward in the understanding of viruses, their infection pathways, their treatment and their prevention. What has been a neglected area of science for far too long has received a massive surge in resources and attention. Hopefully the benefits will go well beyond Covid itself.
Agreed. Genetic analysis and immune knowledge have been steadily and rapidly improving - but basic things like the science of respiratory virus kinetics (aerosol viability, travel etc) and dosage response is incredibly patchy.
For example, we still have little or no idea of what is the minimum initial dose of this virus which results in infection, and whether there's a dose response in terms of the likely severity of the disease in an individual. Similarly, the papers underpinning the WHO's advice on masks dated back several decades.
Yes, back to the 1930s a lot of it. I think that their advice and guidance was a long way behind the curve as a result. In terms of mobility and ease of transmission from country to country the 1930s were a long time ago.
I think the rumour was that he might lose it once the EHRC report is published, which haven’t happened yet. Today’s news was about a dispute between seven Labour staffers and the a Labour Party over Panorama episode.
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
It wasn't the right decision and you were putting your kids af extra risk. Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years.
Re-read my original post Mike - at the time the MMR (the one she jabbed my daughter with that very day) was the centre of a vaccine controversy. Medicines have gone wrong before - when I was a kid I came across Thalidomide children. That was a "safe" drug and it still happens - another drug "safe" enough for human trials...
I was in exactly the same boat and made the same decision. Not vaccinating was not something I would consider and if there had been no alternative I would have reluctantly gone with the MMR.
But given there were perfectly safe and viable alternatives I was willing to pay for those.
In spite of what Mike says the claims about the single shots being unsafe or less effective only came up long after when the Government was trying everything it could to make sure everyone had the MMR and were clearly politically driven. There are many countries in Europe which used single shots and would have been surprised to hear claims that their vaccines were less safe.
When it was time to get my second child vaccinated seven years later I was more than happy to go with the MMR and my first also had an MMR booster later on.
Actually, during the next jab-session (with the new GP) I was told that the only reason for doing all 6 in one visit was to cut visits in half. By doing 6-in-1 it freed up another appointment slot that would be needed for 6-jabs-in-2.
We had the MMR first as those were the most likely diseases for the kids to catch. The others - polio, diptheria and another (I forget which, but probably TB) were done a few weeks later.
When I was due to go down to Brazil in February for work I asked my GP which jabs I needed.
The answer was:
MMR (I am too old to have had it as a child and have actually had all three diseases but was advised it would be wise to have it anyway) Tetanus/Diptheria/Polio Typhoid Hepatitis A Hepatitis B Rabies Yellow Fever
The plan was for me to get the Yellow Fever privately first as it was a live vaccine and wasn't available on the NHS and then to have the other 6 vaccines together in one visit a month later.
This is just one of a number of reasons why I was glad Covid turned up and my trip was cancelled.
At the international company I worked for it was well known that if you wanted to get all the injections out of the way you simply presented a note saying you were going to Nigeria. You get the lot, automatically.
At the time (mid 90s) the Wakefield MMR controversy was all the rage. There was also reports that Gulf War Syndrome was a reaction caused by injecting soldiers with a large number of medicines/vaccines that overwhelmed and damaged their immune systems.
Then you take your child into the GP who tells you that they will be dosing your infant child with 6 vaccines.
I am not surprised that there were anti-vaxxers. When I was confronted with this I said we would take the MMR and come back in a month for the other three. You would have thought I was a murderer. The row got so heated I changed GP.
Well and bravely said.
'Anti-vaxxer' is just another stupid catch all term like 'conspiracy theorist'. Taken to its logical conclusion, it means that you should be prepared to accept any injection into your own body or those of your kids regardless of the level of information you're given, just as the second term indicates that you should accept any Government or corporate line you're given. There are sometimes conspiracies. And it is not beyond the realms of possibility that a vaccine, or combinations of vaccines, one day, could have an unforeseen and negative effect, as so many other medical interventions down the ages have done.
Would it be too much to ask, that the medical establishment looks for the positive in people wanting to make the right health decisions, and seeks to allay people's fears by providing more information, rather than just berating them and inventing names for them?
It wasn't the right decision and you were putting your kids af extra risk. Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years.
Re-read my original post Mike - at the time the MMR (the one she jabbed my daughter with that very day) was the centre of a vaccine controversy. Medicines have gone wrong before - when I was a kid I came across Thalidomide children. That was a "safe" drug and it still happens - another drug "safe" enough for human trials...
I was in exactly the same boat and made the same decision. Not vaccinating was not something I would consider and if there had been no alternative I would have reluctantly gone with the MMR.
But given there were perfectly safe and viable alternatives I was willing to pay for those.
In spite of what Mike says the claims about the single shots being unsafe or less effective only came up long after when the Government was trying everything it could to make sure everyone had the MMR and were clearly politically driven. There are many countries in Europe which used single shots and would have been surprised to hear claims that their vaccines were less safe.
When it was time to get my second child vaccinated seven years later I was more than happy to go with the MMR and my first also had an MMR booster later on.
Actually, during the next jab-session (with the new GP) I was told that the only reason for doing all 6 in one visit was to cut visits in half. By doing 6-in-1 it freed up another appointment slot that would be needed for 6-jabs-in-2.
We had the MMR first as those were the most likely diseases for the kids to catch. The others - polio, diptheria and another (I forget which, but probably TB) were done a few weeks later.
Yes, that's the reason and it's a good one. If you do two visits then someone else didn't get that second appointment. If everyone does two visits then the staff costs of the vaccine programme double. I've no problem with someone paying to get vaccines privately if they don't want to follow the standard procedure in a more expensive way, but I do have a bit of a problem with people wasting NHS resources for no good reason (it means I either have to pay more taxes or I/my family will have to wait longer to see the GP/specialist/for surgery).
Well... tough! At the time there were fears that over-vaccinating caused health issues. Whether or not they were well-founded is irrelevant. At the time no one knew and quite frankly, my child's health trumps the appointment book.
Telegraph says Government has given up hope of deal. All a ruse like with No Deal last time or are we really headed for oblivion?
Last time wasn't a ruse. We are heading for No Deal with anybody
Covid is a handy cloak to wrap around the aftermath.
I'm more concerned about what No Deal does to the aftermath of Covid.
Compared to the economic effects of COVID, those of Brexit and a potential Scottish Independence are background noise.
The concern is that what would be a relatively small shock, in the wake of COVID might be much amplified.
As a small example, we’ve already lost the chance of the new car and battery factories being planned and built to supply Europe. (The accelerated transition to electric being one of the means by which governments will attempt to revive economies.)
There's talk of Tesla building a Gigafactory in Somerset.
Talk is cheap - especially when you are seeking favours...
If Tesla is to achieve its mission: "Tesla’s mission is to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy" it will need factories in all the major markets. The reason the UK wasn't in line for the European Gigafactory was explained by Elon Musk in that article: "Musk previously stated that Tesla looked at the UK for a possible factory location before choosing to build its first European Gigafactory near Berlin, but they thought it “too risky to put a Gigafactory in the UK” due to “Brexit uncertainty”.
The west country location may not be a full GigaFactory, but hopefully we'll get something. From that article: "It’s just hard to believe that Tesla would be looking for another factory in Europe even though they barely started construction on their first one near Berlin.
But with the UK government desperate to boost the economy after the pandemic, Tesla might be getting a sweet incentive package to land a factory in the UK.
We also recently learned that Tesla has applied to virtually become an electric utility in the UK, which could mean that they plan to expand Tesla Energy in the market."
The UK market was 2.3 million cars last year. So 10-20% of that would require an entire Gigafactory to supply.
Eventually, currently the total EV market is much lower than 20% and can be handled from Gigafactory Berlin.
Correct - in UK pure EV is 3% ish, but could well be a hell of a lot more in a very few years.
But I would see Germany taking up a lot, as the German govt are hosing money over electric vehicles like a block piddling next to a statue.
I'm curious how many English towns (without Googling) that people could name off the top of their head that would neither be a Tory held seat nor a Tory target seat.
Personally I can't think of any off the top of my head. The seats that are neither Tory-held nor Tory-targets are generally in cities not towns.
Telegraph says Government has given up hope of deal. All a ruse like with No Deal last time or are we really headed for oblivion?
It's a ruse. Big up the difficulty of getting a deal (and thus the possibility of there being no deal) so that when "Boris" unveils the inevitable bad deal its reception is boosted by a general feeling of relief and against-the-odds achievement. Just like last time with the exit deal. I recommend that nobody on here falls for this. I certainly won't be. If you hail a turd as chocolate you will suffer when the time comes to eat it.
Except of course Boris getting his great new deal last time was against all odds. Everyone had insisted beforehand that revisiting May's agreement and Hunt had scoffed at the idea that we could get a new deal by Halloween but Boris achieved it.
That is why only Boris made sense to be PM and why despite in normal circumstances Hunt would make a great PM he was totally inappropriate to the times. Because in order to get a compromise you need the other party to know that you are seriously prepared to walk away . . . but its by them knowing that, that you get a compromise, so you don't need to walk away.
Same will indeed happen this time. Because we're prepared to walk away the EU are being serious now and negotiating seriously, something that wouldn't have happened with May or Hunt.
One of your blind spots this - JOHNSON and Brexit. I sense you're invested to the point where if he and it goes to junk you lose the house.
Then he is falsely shouting "fire" in a crowded room. Again.
Consider smallpox. Using cowpox, or its later refinements, may have been the 1st vaccine. It saved millions from death or disfiguration. It's now history.
Or how about polio? I knew people who had to live in an iron lung. My brother had it, but was unaffected after a stay in the hospital. I believe, owing to a benighted core of people, it may still not be eradicated.
I had a case of measles that nearly felled me. Now we have a well tested triple vaccine, but owing to the aforementioned benighted, it still lurks and damages kids.
But, if people will believe the world was created 6000 yeas ago and/or vote for Trump we must acknowledge the limitless malleability of the human brain.
I would love to know what actually happens to these people. It is clearly not just people who are stupid. Wakefield was clearly not an idiot and he is not the only one. We can all think of people in the public eye who have gone full on weird.
When Plato started posting odd stuff I started to follow her on Twitter and then Gab when she got banned from twitter. The stuff was absolutely bonkers. One that springs to mind is the conspiracy theories on CNN broadcasts being faked. The stuff that was identified make the moon landings not happening look positively sane in terms of the effort CNN would have had to put together to fake stuff that didn't need faking.
Yet she didn't post this stuff earlier. It strikes me that it is very similar to cult behaviour, but what makes someone susceptible to a cult?
In schools, if not also at home, kids should be taught literacy, numeracy and scepticism. If I were a school teacher I'd give 'em an article once a week to criticise. And maybe I'd build on that in other ways.
As Harry Truman might say: "I'm from Missouri show me".
I think that is very sensible, but something happens at some point to certain people who do actually challenge stuff but in ludicrous ways (find bizarre reasons to negate evidence eg the CNN stuff) yet accept stuff that is clearly demonstrably nonsense.
There is challenging and challenging. How do you respond to someone who says 'show me it wasn't the lizards that did it'
40 odd years ago (it is that much printed on my mind) I was waiting to meet up with a girlfriend on Tottenham Court Road when I was approached by someone doing a survey. I was early so said ok. We went into a shop front where many were doing the survey. Afterwards there was an interview. At this point it became obvious this was a conversion exercise into some sort of cult/con. I was so angry I let rip and stormed out. I was also angry with myself that I got suckered in to it to that point, although there was nothing to suggest it was a cult/con until the interview when it became obvious very quickly. I wondered how often they were successful.
The Scientologists were pretty active then in that area. It was probably them.
It struck me that Jeremy Corbin's story is akin to the strand in literature and films in which an ingenu is thrust into a fierce limelight and faces an array of challenges to which he is peculiarly unsuited, like Forrest Gump or Candide. There is a tragic tinge to the comedy unleashed by the situation. Perhaps we'll see Jeremy as the protagonist in a movie sometime.
Telegraph says Government has given up hope of deal. All a ruse like with No Deal last time or are we really headed for oblivion?
It's a ruse. Big up the difficulty of getting a deal (and thus the possibility of there being no deal) so that when "Boris" unveils the inevitable bad deal its reception is boosted by a general feeling of relief and against-the-odds achievement. Just like last time with the exit deal. I recommend that nobody on here falls for this. I certainly won't be. If you hail a turd as chocolate you will suffer when the time comes to eat it.
Except of course Boris getting his great new deal last time was against all odds. Everyone had insisted beforehand that revisiting May's agreement and Hunt had scoffed at the idea that we could get a new deal by Halloween but Boris achieved it.
That is why only Boris made sense to be PM and why despite in normal circumstances Hunt would make a great PM he was totally inappropriate to the times. Because in order to get a compromise you need the other party to know that you are seriously prepared to walk away . . . but its by them knowing that, that you get a compromise, so you don't need to walk away.
Same will indeed happen this time. Because we're prepared to walk away the EU are being serious now and negotiating seriously, something that wouldn't have happened with May or Hunt.
One of your blind spots this - JOHNSON and Brexit. I sense you're invested to the point where if he and it goes to junk you lose the house.
Personally I went the other way, have got one of the new Cayman GTS 4.0s on order at the moment - the last hurrah for three pedals and a n/a engine!
I'm going to get a 7 speed manual 992 Carrera S when I find the right lightly used example. The 992 has an extra shaft in the transmission that is obviously intended for hybrid power input. I reckon the 992.2 mid life upgrade will be a hybrid.
Comments
The best thing the UK government could do to attract Telsa would be to not legislate any accessibility standards on commercial EV charging so the non-Tesla charging landscape remains fragmented and user hostile.
It struck me that Jeremy Corbin's story is akin to the strand in literature and films in which an ingenu is thrust into a fierce limelight and faces an array of challenges to which he is peculiarly unsuited, like Forrest Gump or Candide. There is a tragic tinge to the comedy unleashed by the situation. Perhaps we'll see Jeremy as the protagonist in a movie sometime.
Interesting dilemma for the righties in USA and elsewhere if Trump is now saying mask-wearing is patriotic. Casino will be making one out of his union jack underwear as we speak!.
These young'uns sound like Stable Geniuses. The Bestest Ever. Passed their cognitive function tests with flying colours no doubt. Do they wear red hats with an acronym on them?
*Look up what a double lung transplant entails.
Yes, AIUI the non-Tesla charging infrastructure is completely crap in the UK. The manufacturers and government all need to bang their heads together to get it sorted quickly.
Not quite along those lines, but the famous Delorean Motor Company was given millions in grants to set up shop in West Belfast.
'The reason we have refused to say whether Leo has had the MMR vaccine is because we never have commented on the medical health or treatment of our children,' he said. 'The advice to parents to have the MMR jab is one of scores of pieces of advice or campaigns the Government supports in matters ranging from under-age sex to teenage alcohol abuse or smoking, to different types of advice for very young children on a huge range of activities from breastfeeding to safe play.
'Once we comment on one, it is hard to see how we can justify not commenting on them all.' Blair wrote the statement himself at Chequers after Number 10 was contacted by his wife's family.
I always thought that last bit was a cop out.
Which is why such favours tend to be things like accelerated planning permission, tax breaks based on profits, tax breaks on payroll taxes etc around the world.
That prompts the thought whether the likes of famous actors and their goops may provide a distribution channel for the nonsense.
* Goop: "a stupid person".
Combinations that have been medially tested as a combination were fine.
The GP in question was not giving children *all* the childhood vaccines in one go.
But given there were perfectly safe and viable alternatives I was willing to pay for those.
In spite of what Mike says the claims about the single shots being unsafe or less effective only came up long after when the Government was trying everything it could to make sure everyone had the MMR and were clearly politically driven. There are many countries in Europe which used single shots and would have been surprised to hear claims that their vaccines were less safe.
When it was time to get my second child vaccinated seven years later I was more than happy to go with the MMR and my first also had an MMR booster later on.
Not sure that Komrade Korbyn is that naive, or innocent, though.
Business rate relief based on number of people employed, planning decisions made centrally, government-built surrounding infrastructure such as roads and rail lines, sales incentives such a VAT reduction on UK-built all-electric vehicles - that sort of thing would be more appropriate in the current environment.
Where are the new Korean and Chinese battery factories being built ?
Thus far, quite a few in Europe, and none here.
"Jabs only get included after huge levels of testing over many years"
Well we know that is certainly not going to be the case with this jab which rather undermines your argument.
We had the MMR first as those were the most likely diseases for the kids to catch. The others - polio, diptheria and another (I forget which, but probably TB) were done a few weeks later.
I think the Tories are as bad as Labour regarding this.
Ben Goldacre has an excellent timeline and presentation on the MMR 'controversy'.
If you're asked whether you kids have had a vaccine which you're recommending all kids would get, it's hardly commenting 'on the medical health or treatment' to just say 'sure, like everyone else'.
The important thing is that government shouldn't be seen to pick winners, any incentive offered should be available to any producer of electric cars.
Especially in the UK, where there's lots of small specialist carmakers - if Lotus, McLaren and Morgan want to make EVs, they should be given the same incentives as Tesla.
The answer was:
MMR (I am too old to have had it as a child and have actually had all three diseases but was advised it would be wise to have it anyway)
Tetanus/Diptheria/Polio
Typhoid
Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
Rabies
Yellow Fever
The plan was for me to get the Yellow Fever privately first as it was a live vaccine and wasn't available on the NHS and then to have the other 6 vaccines together in one visit a month later.
This is just one of a number of reasons why I was glad Covid turned up and my trip was cancelled.
That is why only Boris made sense to be PM and why despite in normal circumstances Hunt would make a great PM he was totally inappropriate to the times. Because in order to get a compromise you need the other party to know that you are seriously prepared to walk away . . . but its by them knowing that, that you get a compromise, so you don't need to walk away.
Same will indeed happen this time. Because we're prepared to walk away the EU are being serious now and negotiating seriously, something that wouldn't have happened with May or Hunt.
Tesla have a good infrastructure of superchargers, but yesterday I was parked next to a Tesla , we were both on 50Kw chargers, the Tesla was painfully slow to charge at about 15KWh, I was getting 45 KWh.
I have no problems with incentives or tax cuts so long as the are consistent. If an employer is prepared to take over derelict land and build a massive new factory paying thousands of employees via PAYE I have no qualms with tax breaks applying on eg Business Rates etc . . . there'd be no meaningful Business Rates coming in without the factory either. One more reason why land-based business taxes should be abolished.
almost like the mob doesn't want to comment on it....
I am not sure that Corbyn is the naive, decent, hero, though.
Perhaps https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4686844/ is a better model. Naive but complicit....
It's frustrating because there is a lot to be genuinely concerned about so far as China is concerned but Trump is so obviously playing politics it undermines the American position.
And the sheer resources thrown at the problem have been immense.
No way the corrupt senator played by Claude Rains would have caved like that; would just have said 'fake news', and carried on.
One of the worst in my opinion was the Training and Enterprise Councils introduced by Michael Heseltine. Lots of people employed doing nothing but ticking boxes and supplying worthless certificates to individuals. Personally I made money providing these organsiations with services as did many people and organisations. But it was all work for the sake of work with no visible improvement to the economy or humanity but just shuffling taxpayers money around.
But it's an election year, so pretty much normal for American politics.
https://electrek.co/2020/06/04/germany-boost-ev-incentives-9000-euros-helping-tesla-model-3-vw-id-3/
Claude Rains - a reason to watch any film.
He signed up to an old deal that "No British PM would sign"
It wasn't a victory. It was an admission of defeat.
I don't the market is quite ready for a 911e as the 911 brand is Porsche's crown jewel and they won't do an electric one until is better than an IC one. I do think they'll do a 748 e-Boxster with the tech from the 2wd Asian market Taycan soon though.
For example, we still have little or no idea of what is the minimum initial dose of this virus which results in infection, and whether there's a dose response in terms of the likely severity of the disease in an individual.
Similarly, the papers underpinning the WHO's advice on masks dated back several decades.
Sorry, it’s a Physics teacher instinct.
But it doesn't change the fact that vaccine trials normally take years for a number of reasons and one of them is to study the longer term effects. Not something that is possible if someone wants to rush something out by the end of the year.
Taking 2 INSET days at the beginning of the school year is very normal and it's often more if significant changes are occurring (usually a new head but Covid would be equally valid).
Personally I went the other way, have got one of the new Cayman GTS 4.0s on order at the moment - the last hurrah for three pedals and a n/a engine!
The scale of the corruption was massive - a direct subsidy of well over a billion dollars to the corrupt utilities:
https://www.npr.org/2020/07/21/893493224/ohio-house-speaker-arrested-in-connection-to-60-million-bribery-scheme
Be very interesting to watch the next Ohio poll.
https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1285618977654407169
Even if you're not religious yourself, the way the often seriously sick kids enjoy the trip is genuinely life-affirming.
But I would see Germany taking up a lot, as the German govt are hosing money over electric vehicles like a block piddling next to a statue.
Personally I can't think of any off the top of my head. The seats that are neither Tory-held nor Tory-targets are generally in cities not towns.
The "anomaly" of diplomatic immunity to be amended. Surprising concession by the US.