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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After a big political day time for PB NightHawks

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited July 22 in General
imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After a big political day time for PB NightHawks

What with the LAB party defamation case moves and PMQs its been another big political day. One thing’s for sure the response by Corbyn to the party’s settlement of the libel action doesn’t mean the antisemitism row is going away.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 82,942
    First like Liverpool
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 5,106

    First like Liverpool

    Second like WBA
  • stodgestodge Posts: 7,088
    Third like my each way outsider in a 7- runner race.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 226
    2nd is nowhere...
  • Thanks Jezza for a free poll boost, Keir will find it even easier to start afresh and remake the Labour Party, which wherever you stand, is what is needed at this junction
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 5,106
    edited July 22

    2nd is nowhere...

    Tonight second means everything!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 82,942
    I'm going to be absolutely unbearable* for the next hour or so.

    *Well even more than normal. I've waited my entire adult life and then some for this moment.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 34,306
    Trump has u-turned massively on plague.

    Will it be enough between now and November?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 5,106

    Trump has u-turned massively on plague.

    Will it be enough between now and November?

    The fate of the world means nothing tonight. The Baggies are up!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 47,661

    Trump has u-turned massively on plague.

    Will it be enough between now and November?

    What's he done? I've not been keeping track.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 34,306
    Veep betting: Rice down to 3.95

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 7,372
    13th like Wigan Athletic subject to appeal.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 2,187

    Thanks Jezza for a free poll boost, Keir will find it even easier to start afresh and remake the Labour Party, which wherever you stand, is what is needed at this junction

    Not really. If you are a Tory, you want Labour to be irrelevant. The days of laughing at Corbyn are gone. Starmer needs to lead a party with irrelevant policies. He can be good, but irrelevant./
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 34,306
    RobD said:

    Trump has u-turned massively on plague.

    Will it be enough between now and November?

    What's he done? I've not been keeping track.
    Admitted that virus is a bigly problem, people need to wear masks etc.

    Bit old news to be honest, as he said these things overnight.

    Of course he lied about telling people not to wear masks. Claims he never said it.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 13,332
    dixiedean said:

    13th like Wigan Athletic subject to appeal.

    Someone's been counting carefully :wink:
  • stodgestodge Posts: 7,088

    Thanks Jezza for a free poll boost, Keir will find it even easier to start afresh and remake the Labour Party, which wherever you stand, is what is needed at this junction

    I agree.

    Were Corbyn and those who think like him to leave or be expelled, that would enable Starmer to re-brand Labour as a non-socialist party of the centre or centre-left for which I think many who voted for Johnson to prevent Corbyn becoming PM last December could vote.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,900

    Trump has u-turned massively on plague.

    Will it be enough between now and November?

    The fate of the world means nothing tonight. The Baggies are up!
    And Forest are felled...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084

    2nd is nowhere...

    While Shankley's quote is more memorable, Paisley's has always made me smile: "I’ve been here during the bad times too – one year we came second.”

    Don't think anyone could ever imagine a 30 year wait when he said that.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,900
    Its going to be an exciting Sunday, I think 7 of the games have something to play for.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 7,088

    Thanks Jezza for a free poll boost, Keir will find it even easier to start afresh and remake the Labour Party, which wherever you stand, is what is needed at this junction

    Not really. If you are a Tory, you want Labour to be irrelevant. The days of laughing at Corbyn are gone. Starmer needs to lead a party with irrelevant policies. He can be good, but irrelevant./
    Also true but less so. Without the baggage of the Corbynite Left, Starmer will be able to either follow technocratic or non-socialist policies and by 2024 the Conservatives will have 14 years of record to defend.

    All Starmer might have to do is demonstrate he can do the Conservative high-spend social democratic stuff better.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 55,331
    stodge said:

    Thanks Jezza for a free poll boost, Keir will find it even easier to start afresh and remake the Labour Party, which wherever you stand, is what is needed at this junction

    I agree.

    Were Corbyn and those who think like him to leave or be expelled, that would enable Starmer to re-brand Labour as a non-socialist party of the centre or centre-left for which I think many who voted for Johnson to prevent Corbyn becoming PM last December could vote.
    Surely Corbyn himself is going nowhere? He was still there when the devil incarnate (in the eyes of many Labour supporters) was running things. Could he really push things so far that he would be expelled?
  • I find it very troubling how many people (a minority but they're loud) are still supporting Corbyn.

    He lost two elections, he objectively failed. Unless you're insane it's time to move on.

    Ed Miliband objectively failed. We moved on.

    Gordon Brown failed. We moved on.

    Neil Kinnock failed. We moved on.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 13,332

    RobD said:

    Trump has u-turned massively on plague.

    Will it be enough between now and November?

    What's he done? I've not been keeping track.
    Admitted that virus is a bigly problem, people need to wear masks etc.

    Bit old news to be honest, as he said these things overnight.

    Of course he lied about telling people not to wear masks. Claims he never said it.
    Fox interview at the weekend: "It's going to disappear"
  • I do wonder what the result might be where the election becomes about economics. Tory big spending vs Labour big spending. Good pitch for the Lib Dems there, moderation
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,900

    RobD said:

    Trump has u-turned massively on plague.

    Will it be enough between now and November?

    What's he done? I've not been keeping track.
    Admitted that virus is a bigly problem, people need to wear masks etc.

    Bit old news to be honest, as he said these things overnight.

    Of course he lied about telling people not to wear masks. Claims he never said it.
    Fox interview at the weekend: "It's going to disappear"
    When everybody has had it!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    stodge said:

    Thanks Jezza for a free poll boost, Keir will find it even easier to start afresh and remake the Labour Party, which wherever you stand, is what is needed at this junction

    I agree.

    Were Corbyn and those who think like him to leave or be expelled, that would enable Starmer to re-brand Labour as a non-socialist party of the centre or centre-left for which I think many who voted for Johnson to prevent Corbyn becoming PM last December could vote.
    It's one I would be disappointed losing to but I wouldn't fear losing to them.

    While I didn't think Corbyn would win the idea he could was terrifying.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 13,332

    Trump has u-turned massively on plague.

    Will it be enough between now and November?

    The fate of the world means nothing tonight. The Baggies are up!
    Yebbut... Just think of the gloom and despondency you have coming to you next May. :disappointed:

    Every silver lining has a cloud, as my gran used to say.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 13,332
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Trump has u-turned massively on plague.

    Will it be enough between now and November?

    What's he done? I've not been keeping track.
    Admitted that virus is a bigly problem, people need to wear masks etc.

    Bit old news to be honest, as he said these things overnight.

    Of course he lied about telling people not to wear masks. Claims he never said it.
    Fox interview at the weekend: "It's going to disappear"
    When everybody has had it!
    Though even then, who's sure you can't catch it again?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,900
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,900

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Trump has u-turned massively on plague.

    Will it be enough between now and November?

    What's he done? I've not been keeping track.
    Admitted that virus is a bigly problem, people need to wear masks etc.

    Bit old news to be honest, as he said these things overnight.

    Of course he lied about telling people not to wear masks. Claims he never said it.
    Fox interview at the weekend: "It's going to disappear"
    When everybody has had it!
    Though even then, who's sure you can't catch it again?
    It was Trump who said that it would disappear if everyone had had it.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 5,664
    edited July 22
    Absolutely. The song of the Rona is Yer Blues by The Beatles. "Yes I'm lonely. Wanna Die"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2020/jul/22/psychological-toll-coronavirus-britain-visual-guide-anxiety-mental-strain
  • stodgestodge Posts: 7,088
    kle4 said:


    Surely Corbyn himself is going nowhere? He was still there when the devil incarnate (in the eyes of many Labour supporters) was running things. Could he really push things so far that he would be expelled?

    Perhaps but the coming report may give Starmer a stick with which he can best down Corbyn once and for all and were they to be thrown out of Labour it would, I think, be Starmer's "Clause 4" moment.

  • My sense is Corbyn's popularity is dropping even within the Labour Party. I think a decent minority (maybe 50,000) people might leave if he gets kicked out by a significant majority will stay.

    I honestly think the want to win is a lot bigger than a lot of people realise.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    stodge said:

    kle4 said:


    Surely Corbyn himself is going nowhere? He was still there when the devil incarnate (in the eyes of many Labour supporters) was running things. Could he really push things so far that he would be expelled?

    Perhaps but the coming report may give Starmer a stick with which he can best down Corbyn once and for all and were they to be thrown out of Labour it would, I think, be Starmer's "Clause 4" moment.

    It would. If he does it then credit where it's due.

    If he doesn't then damp squib and the cancer will be there to return in the future.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 5,106
    edited July 22

    Trump has u-turned massively on plague.

    Will it be enough between now and November?

    The fate of the world means nothing tonight. The Baggies are up!
    Yebbut... Just think of the gloom and despondency you have coming to you next May. :disappointed:

    Every silver lining has a cloud, as my gran used to say.
    It won't just be May, it'll be throughout the whole season.

    I am already trying to workout which three could be worse than the Albion.

    One of Villa or Watford, and the Hammers can always be relied on to disappoint. The playoff winner, and Brighton and Southampton have over achieved this season. And Newcastle are about due another horror season.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 7,372

    dixiedean said:

    13th like Wigan Athletic subject to appeal.

    Someone's been counting carefully :wink:
    Logged on. The goal was gaping. Slotted it home.
  • https://www.youtube.com/embed/hz_4BCRYhzw

    This kind of coverage can only be good for Keir
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 35,023

    Trump has u-turned massively on plague.

    Will it be enough between now and November?

    The fate of the world means nothing tonight. The Baggies are up!
    West Ham safe - until next season :)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 7,088


    Though even then, who's sure you can't catch it again?

    I'm afraid my brother has tested positive for the third time since the end of March.

    He has a weakened immune system after undergoing treatment for cancer and the medical view is this is preventing him getting rid of the virus.

    He has another 14 days of isolation with which to contend - I can only hope one of the many vaccines will be administered to him as a priority as he is effectively trapped. His condition is not serious, he has never needed ventilation or even gone to hospital.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084

    My sense is Corbyn's popularity is dropping even within the Labour Party. I think a decent minority (maybe 50,000) people might leave if he gets kicked out by a significant majority will stay.

    I honestly think the want to win is a lot bigger than a lot of people realise.

    I agree.

    A lot saw Corbyn for what he was in the final few years. For most of the rest the 80 seat majority made the scales drop from their eyes.
  • That should be *minority, of course a majority is always significant.

    I think the membership will probably be around 350-400,000 in a couple of years
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    We are the champions! 🏆
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 5,830
    edited July 22
    Oh great the Boris Bridge idea is back. It will never get built, I think
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    This season has been so surreal and strange that even when it was confirmed it felt surreal. Seeing the trophy lifted is a really great moment. 😀🏆
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 35,023

    We are the champions! 🏆

    Nous sommes les Champignons!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 5,106

    We are the champions! 🏆

    We are the champions(hip runners up)!
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 212
    I think Starmer leans a little further left than most of the PB centrists are comfortable with (Even the most zealous of recent converts).

    If you are elected as a unity candidate in a party who's members lean decidedly left you do not not drop the the entire 2017 manifesto in the hope of appeasing home counties retirees. Nor do your remove ex-leaders from the whip without great cause.

    I don't believe Starmer is the new Blair but an Attlee. 'Starmerisation' of the party IMO will be slow and measured and to the displeasure of most of the prolific PB commentators who indulge themselves with purges of the left leaning.

  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 2,809
    edited July 22
    I’m late to this: who got relegated from the Premiership? My brother phoned me at the weekend to let me know that my local team, Wycombe, managed to get promoted to what I still think of as Division two (the Championship), so I’d quite like to know who they will be playing.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 3,883
    edited July 22

    2nd is nowhere...

    While Shankley's quote is more memorable, Paisley's has always made me smile: "I’ve been here during the bad times too – one year we came second.”

    Don't think anyone could ever imagine a 30 year wait when he said that.
    I think hubris is the word you might be thinking of!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    Best wishes stodge for your brother.
  • I think Starmer leans a little further left than most of the PB centrists are comfortable with (Even the most zealous of recent converts).

    If you are elected as a unity candidate in a party who's members lean decidedly left you do not not drop the the entire 2017 manifesto in the hope of appeasing home counties retirees. Nor do your remove ex-leaders from the whip without great cause.

    I don't believe Starmer is the new Blair but an Attlee. 'Starmerisation' of the party IMO will be slow and measured and to the displeasure of most of the prolific PB commentators who indulge themselves with purges of the left leaning.

    He's more left-wing than Ed M just more pragmatic.

    His manifesto and policies will be 2017-lite but with a pro-Britain focus and better foreign policy.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    OllyT said:

    2nd is nowhere...

    While Shankley's quote is more memorable, Paisley's has always made me smile: "I’ve been here during the bad times too – one year we came second.”

    Don't think anyone could ever imagine a 30 year wait when he said that.
    I think hubris is the word you are looking for
    Look at Paisley's record and trophy cabinet ... He earnt the right to say that!
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 2,809

    We are the champions! 🏆

    Nous sommes les Champignons!
    We are the Mushrooms?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084

    I’m late to this: who got relegated from the Premiership? My brother phoned me at the weekend to let me know that my local team, Wycombe, managed to get promoted to what I still think of as Division two (the Championship), so I’d quite like to know who they will be playing.

    Still not confirmed until Sunday.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 28,710

    Oh great the Boris Bridge idea is back. It will never get built, I think

    It is a work of art. The sort of building that can define a public space. Do you think Nelson’s Column would have satisfied our value for money misers?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,900

    I’m late to this: who got relegated from the Premiership? My brother phoned me at the weekend to let me know that my local team, Wycombe, managed to get promoted to what I still think of as Division two (the Championship), so I’d quite like to know who they will be playing.

    Only Norwich for sure, Bournemouth could stay up if both Villa and Watford lose. I reckon Villa will scrape survival.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 2,809

    I’m late to this: who got relegated from the Premiership? My brother phoned me at the weekend to let me know that my local team, Wycombe, managed to get promoted to what I still think of as Division two (the Championship), so I’d quite like to know who they will be playing.

    Still not confirmed until Sunday.
    Thanks.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,900

    We are the champions! 🏆

    Nous sommes les Champignons!
    We are the Mushrooms?
    Sunil is a fungi, just teasing us.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 21,105
    Charles said:

    Oh great the Boris Bridge idea is back. It will never get built, I think

    It is a work of art. The sort of building that can define a public space. Do you think Nelson’s Column would have satisfied our value for money misers?
    The Irish Sea is a public space? It's a theory I guess.

    With a border down it, it might be two public spaces.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 7,372
    LFC were defending Champions when I was born. In my first 23 years they won it 11 times. Everton won 3 too.
    Hard to believe it has been 30 years.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 2,809
    Foxy said:

    I’m late to this: who got relegated from the Premiership? My brother phoned me at the weekend to let me know that my local team, Wycombe, managed to get promoted to what I still think of as Division two (the Championship), so I’d quite like to know who they will be playing.

    Only Norwich for sure, Bournemouth could stay up if both Villa and Watford lose. I reckon Villa will scrape survival.
    Thanks
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 28,710

    Charles said:

    Oh great the Boris Bridge idea is back. It will never get built, I think

    It is a work of art. The sort of building that can define a public space. Do you think Nelson’s Column would have satisfied our value for money misers?
    The Irish Sea is a public space? It's a theory I guess.

    With a border down it, it might be two public spaces.
    Thought he was talking about the garden bridge. Difficult to keep all these grand projects straight...
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 222

    I think Starmer leans a little further left than most of the PB centrists are comfortable with (Even the most zealous of recent converts).

    If you are elected as a unity candidate in a party who's members lean decidedly left you do not not drop the the entire 2017 manifesto in the hope of appeasing home counties retirees. Nor do your remove ex-leaders from the whip without great cause.

    I don't believe Starmer is the new Blair but an Attlee. 'Starmerisation' of the party IMO will be slow and measured and to the displeasure of most of the prolific PB commentators who indulge themselves with purges of the left leaning.

    I agree. Those who want Starmer to run from the centre will be disappointed - he's nothing like Blair. However, he will have a broader church than Corbyn. Quite a lot of Corbyn's fans have already resigned their membership; some of those against Corbyn have rejoined. So Starmer will have quite a left-wing, green, redistributive (power and wealth) programme when it comes, but without the Corbynite baggage. It's not Starmer's job to appease the right wingers on here.
  • I think Starmer leans a little further left than most of the PB centrists are comfortable with (Even the most zealous of recent converts).

    If you are elected as a unity candidate in a party who's members lean decidedly left you do not not drop the the entire 2017 manifesto in the hope of appeasing home counties retirees. Nor do your remove ex-leaders from the whip without great cause.

    I don't believe Starmer is the new Blair but an Attlee. 'Starmerisation' of the party IMO will be slow and measured and to the displeasure of most of the prolific PB commentators who indulge themselves with purges of the left leaning.

    I agree. Those who want Starmer to run from the centre will be disappointed - he's nothing like Blair. However, he will have a broader church than Corbyn. Quite a lot of Corbyn's fans have already resigned their membership; some of those against Corbyn have rejoined. So Starmer will have quite a left-wing, green, redistributive (power and wealth) programme when it comes, but without the Corbynite baggage. It's not Starmer's job to appease the right wingers on here.
    No but he does need Tory voters, or alternatively lots of Tory voters to stay at home, or vote Lib Dem.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 2,809
    And good night all. 🌜
  • Keir's PR/advisory/election team seem to be pretty good so far, I trust in their strategy.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 28,710

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Oh great the Boris Bridge idea is back. It will never get built, I think

    It is a work of art. The sort of building that can define a public space. Do you think Nelson’s Column would have satisfied our value for money misers?
    The Irish Sea is a public space? It's a theory I guess.

    With a border down it, it might be two public spaces.
    Thought he was talking about the garden bridge. Difficult to keep all these grand projects straight...
    I think the idea is a garden bridge across the Irish Sea with an airport in the middle.
    May be you could have a gradual transition from thistles to clover?
  • Salisbury was what really pushed Corbyn from just unpopular to dreadfully unpopular. I think years in the future it will be seen as the tipping point for the end of his leadership.
  • isamisam Posts: 33,119
    edited July 22
    Whilst Boris goes from one disaster to another, and Sir Keir grows into the job/more people get to know about him...


  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 222

    I think Starmer leans a little further left than most of the PB centrists are comfortable with (Even the most zealous of recent converts).

    If you are elected as a unity candidate in a party who's members lean decidedly left you do not not drop the the entire 2017 manifesto in the hope of appeasing home counties retirees. Nor do your remove ex-leaders from the whip without great cause.

    I don't believe Starmer is the new Blair but an Attlee. 'Starmerisation' of the party IMO will be slow and measured and to the displeasure of most of the prolific PB commentators who indulge themselves with purges of the left leaning.

    I agree. Those who want Starmer to run from the centre will be disappointed - he's nothing like Blair. However, he will have a broader church than Corbyn. Quite a lot of Corbyn's fans have already resigned their membership; some of those against Corbyn have rejoined. So Starmer will have quite a left-wing, green, redistributive (power and wealth) programme when it comes, but without the Corbynite baggage. It's not Starmer's job to appease the right wingers on here.
    No but he does need Tory voters, or alternatively lots of Tory voters to stay at home, or vote Lib Dem.
    Yes, of course he needs to attract Tory voters. But that's not the same as attracting Tory members or fans. He doesn't need to attract those on here who are avowedly partisan and would never dream of voting Labour, yet advocate strongly that the party turn to the right.
  • I think Starmer leans a little further left than most of the PB centrists are comfortable with (Even the most zealous of recent converts).

    If you are elected as a unity candidate in a party who's members lean decidedly left you do not not drop the the entire 2017 manifesto in the hope of appeasing home counties retirees. Nor do your remove ex-leaders from the whip without great cause.

    I don't believe Starmer is the new Blair but an Attlee. 'Starmerisation' of the party IMO will be slow and measured and to the displeasure of most of the prolific PB commentators who indulge themselves with purges of the left leaning.

    I agree. Those who want Starmer to run from the centre will be disappointed - he's nothing like Blair. However, he will have a broader church than Corbyn. Quite a lot of Corbyn's fans have already resigned their membership; some of those against Corbyn have rejoined. So Starmer will have quite a left-wing, green, redistributive (power and wealth) programme when it comes, but without the Corbynite baggage. It's not Starmer's job to appease the right wingers on here.
    No but he does need Tory voters, or alternatively lots of Tory voters to stay at home, or vote Lib Dem.
    Yes, of course he needs to attract Tory voters. But that's not the same as attracting Tory members or fans. He doesn't need to attract those on here who are avowedly partisan and would never dream of voting Labour, yet advocate strongly that the party turn to the right.
    Agree with that, there's no point trying to appeal to people who will never vote Labour anyway but there is a great deal of sense appealing to those that did in the past. We need to figure out why those voters have left us.

    Two big reasons, Brexit and Corbyn are gone. But there are others - and I hate to give him credit because I find a lot of what he says pretty rubbish - but Aaron Bastani was right when he said this is a problem that predates Corbyn. Majorities in Labour heartland seats were shrinking before Corbyn arrived. We need to figure out why that was.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    dixiedean said:

    LFC were defending Champions when I was born. In my first 23 years they won it 11 times. Everton won 3 too.
    Hard to believe it has been 30 years.

    Tell me about it Dixie!

    I was born later when Liverpool were Champions having won just before I was born captained by my namesake (though my parents always say that was a coincidence I don't believe it lol).

    Until my eighth birthday they won an additional 5 titles, Everton won 2 titles with just the 1 for Arsenal going outside of Merseyside.

    As a boy I thought the question of who would win the league was simply: red or blue?

    I never thought it'd take 30 years before the title returned to Merseyside!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084

    I think Starmer leans a little further left than most of the PB centrists are comfortable with (Even the most zealous of recent converts).

    If you are elected as a unity candidate in a party who's members lean decidedly left you do not not drop the the entire 2017 manifesto in the hope of appeasing home counties retirees. Nor do your remove ex-leaders from the whip without great cause.

    I don't believe Starmer is the new Blair but an Attlee. 'Starmerisation' of the party IMO will be slow and measured and to the displeasure of most of the prolific PB commentators who indulge themselves with purges of the left leaning.

    I agree. Those who want Starmer to run from the centre will be disappointed - he's nothing like Blair. However, he will have a broader church than Corbyn. Quite a lot of Corbyn's fans have already resigned their membership; some of those against Corbyn have rejoined. So Starmer will have quite a left-wing, green, redistributive (power and wealth) programme when it comes, but without the Corbynite baggage. It's not Starmer's job to appease the right wingers on here.
    So he's Kinnock?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 222

    I think Starmer leans a little further left than most of the PB centrists are comfortable with (Even the most zealous of recent converts).

    If you are elected as a unity candidate in a party who's members lean decidedly left you do not not drop the the entire 2017 manifesto in the hope of appeasing home counties retirees. Nor do your remove ex-leaders from the whip without great cause.

    I don't believe Starmer is the new Blair but an Attlee. 'Starmerisation' of the party IMO will be slow and measured and to the displeasure of most of the prolific PB commentators who indulge themselves with purges of the left leaning.

    I agree. Those who want Starmer to run from the centre will be disappointed - he's nothing like Blair. However, he will have a broader church than Corbyn. Quite a lot of Corbyn's fans have already resigned their membership; some of those against Corbyn have rejoined. So Starmer will have quite a left-wing, green, redistributive (power and wealth) programme when it comes, but without the Corbynite baggage. It's not Starmer's job to appease the right wingers on here.
    So he's Kinnock?
    A daft comment. He's Starmer.
  • Starmer is already a lot more popular than Kinnock was, I think.
  • For me it's clear Starmer is the best leader Labour can have right now and I am glad and proud to have voted for him.

    If he puts Labour closer to Government than it's been for a long time, he can resign knowing that in thirty years he will be seen as achieving something.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084

    I think Starmer leans a little further left than most of the PB centrists are comfortable with (Even the most zealous of recent converts).

    If you are elected as a unity candidate in a party who's members lean decidedly left you do not not drop the the entire 2017 manifesto in the hope of appeasing home counties retirees. Nor do your remove ex-leaders from the whip without great cause.

    I don't believe Starmer is the new Blair but an Attlee. 'Starmerisation' of the party IMO will be slow and measured and to the displeasure of most of the prolific PB commentators who indulge themselves with purges of the left leaning.

    I agree. Those who want Starmer to run from the centre will be disappointed - he's nothing like Blair. However, he will have a broader church than Corbyn. Quite a lot of Corbyn's fans have already resigned their membership; some of those against Corbyn have rejoined. So Starmer will have quite a left-wing, green, redistributive (power and wealth) programme when it comes, but without the Corbynite baggage. It's not Starmer's job to appease the right wingers on here.
    So he's Kinnock?
    A daft comment. He's Starmer.
    Can we compromise? A lawyerly windbag.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084

    For me it's clear Starmer is the best leader Labour can have right now and I am glad and proud to have voted for him.

    If he puts Labour closer to Government than it's been for a long time, he can resign knowing that in thirty years he will be seen as achieving something.

    Agreed.

    Like Kinnock.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 26,231
    edited July 22
    I see that Messrs @Casino_Royale, @david_herdson and @AlastairMeeks have been having a bit of a Twitterspat. Thank goodness you never get that sort of thing here on PB.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 41,070

    Trump has u-turned massively on plague.

    Will it be enough between now and November?

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084

    I see that Messrs @Casino_Royale, @david_herdson and @AlastairMeeks have been having a bit of a Twitterspat. Thank goodness you never get that sort of thing here on PB.

    Any link?

    I miss Mr Meeks. He's a fun person to spar with. Hope he's doing well having his break from here.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 26,231

    I see that Messrs @Casino_Royale, @david_herdson and @AlastairMeeks have been having a bit of a Twitterspat. Thank goodness you never get that sort of thing here on PB.

    Any link?

    I miss Mr Meeks. He's a fun person to spar with. Hope he's doing well having his break from here.
    It starts here:

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    Thanks Mr Nabavi.
  • isamisam Posts: 33,119

    I see that Messrs @Casino_Royale, @david_herdson and @AlastairMeeks have been having a bit of a Twitterspat. Thank goodness you never get that sort of thing here on PB.

    Any link?

    I miss Mr Meeks. He's a fun person to spar with. Hope he's doing well having his break from here.
    It starts here:

    Good to see people enjoying their time away from the pettiness of political argument on here
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    isam said:

    I see that Messrs @Casino_Royale, @david_herdson and @AlastairMeeks have been having a bit of a Twitterspat. Thank goodness you never get that sort of thing here on PB.

    Any link?

    I miss Mr Meeks. He's a fun person to spar with. Hope he's doing well having his break from here.
    It starts here:

    Good to see people enjoying their time away from the pettiness of political argument on here
    If there's less pettiness on Twitter than here we'd have a real problem! 😂
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 21,105

    I see that Messrs @Casino_Royale, @david_herdson and @AlastairMeeks have been having a bit of a Twitterspat. Thank goodness you never get that sort of thing here on PB.

    Any link?

    I miss Mr Meeks. He's a fun person to spar with. Hope he's doing well having his break from here.
    It starts here:

    Call that a spat? Pshaw.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 55,331

    I see that Messrs @Casino_Royale, @david_herdson and @AlastairMeeks have been having a bit of a Twitterspat. Thank goodness you never get that sort of thing here on PB.

    Any link?

    I miss Mr Meeks. He's a fun person to spar with. Hope he's doing well having his break from here.
    It starts here:

    Call that a spat? Pshaw.
    I was awfully disappointed, I must say. It was barely a tiff.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 451
    isam said:

    I see that Messrs @Casino_Royale, @david_herdson and @AlastairMeeks have been having a bit of a Twitterspat. Thank goodness you never get that sort of thing here on PB.

    Any link?

    I miss Mr Meeks. He's a fun person to spar with. Hope he's doing well having his break from here.
    It starts here:

    Good to see people enjoying their time away from the pettiness of political argument on here
    I would have thought that would have been an obvious. You would have a nation to the North of rUK that would probably have had a fairly acrimonious split from rUk and would be looking for investment after independence and would be fairly sanguine from whom it accepted help. Not hard to imagine Nicola deciding to play hardball when it came to helping out rUK in defence matters.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 31,859
    @MrEd:

    This is a very good piece on the pitfalls for the Democrats ahead: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/07/david-shor-cancel-culture-2020-election-theory-polls.html
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 451
    Foxy said:
    That is a fairly lazy analysis. One thing is that Hispanics don't seem themselves as a unified bloc - try telling the Cuban exiles that their kinsfolk are immigrants from Honduras, Mexico et al who were escaping poverty. Even if you look at the results of the 2016 election, it doesn't show that these trends equal an automatic Republican loss - Trump won Florida and the Democrat vote in Arizona was stable from 2012 with the reduced Republican share being down to third party candidates picking up many votes.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 21,105
    What with all this sheer might and world beatingness, only a matter of time before the tide turns back to the Union in Scotland.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    Trumpsky is repeating the 1932 playbook of his Republican predecessor Herbert Hoover. Odds of successful outcome would appear less than 50-50.

    Of course in June 1864, Abraham Lincoln's re-election prospects appeared grim. However, the situation changed dramatically in June with Union victory at the Battle of Atlanta followed by Gen. Sherman's "March to the Sea".

    Trumpsky is betting that effective anti-Covid vaccine is developed AND available to hundreds of thousands if not millions of Americans by November 4. Which in terms of timetable alone will be a greater feat than Sherman's hike across Georgia.

    Especially when you consider that Lincoln SUPPORTED Sherman, whereas in THIS war, Trumpsky keeps attacking our best general, Dr. Faucci.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 14,675
    MrEd said:

    Foxy said:
    That is a fairly lazy analysis. One thing is that Hispanics don't seem themselves as a unified bloc - try telling the Cuban exiles that their kinsfolk are immigrants from Honduras, Mexico et al who were escaping poverty. Even if you look at the results of the 2016 election, it doesn't show that these trends equal an automatic Republican loss - Trump won Florida and the Democrat vote in Arizona was stable from 2012 with the reduced Republican share being down to third party candidates picking up many votes.
    You're right about ex-Cubans in FL. In other respects, the Hispanic vote is fairly cohesive, and that many be why the swings are much bigger in the other three states.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 3,445

    I see that Messrs @Casino_Royale, @david_herdson and @AlastairMeeks have been having a bit of a Twitterspat. Thank goodness you never get that sort of thing here on PB.

    Any link?

    I miss Mr Meeks. He's a fun person to spar with. Hope he's doing well having his break from here.
    It starts here:

    Call that a spat? Pshaw.
    Nonetheless, the logic of Brexit is also the logic of Scottish Independence. Brexiteers have no right to complain when their own logic is used against them.
This discussion has been closed.