On the issue of handouts to oldies can anyone explain why oldies still get reduced entry cost to many sporting events, museums etc ?
I could understand it a generation or two back when there were fewer oldies and they generally had less money but why now ?
Why should a 25 year old have to pay more than a 65 year old to watch the same game when its the 65 year old who has all the wealth, no debts and has the higher income ?
Why do they all get free TV licenses (or they did)?
Why do young people not deserve them? The truth is neither do, in my view.
The young in this country get absolutely shafted, they get absolutely fuck all from the Tories.
The young will get policies they want when they vote in significant enough numbers that their desires matter.
They don't vote in significant enough numbers so their desires are ignored by politicians who focus on currying favour from older age groups who do vote.
If you see above I noted this.
I completely agree with you, if we could be bothered we wouldn't get shafted so much.
It will get worse. The country is ageing and the assumption that today's pissed-off twentysomethings won't drift, on average, further and further towards conservatism as they age - i.e. that the Tories' courting of the grey vote will eventually bite them on the arse as the current generation of pensioners dies out - is heroic.
Remember, though, that people become more conservative as they age because they start to be the people with assets and property and the like. They seek to protect the system that they are now benificiaries of.
If the 45 year olds of tomorrow have no stake in society, if they're not property owners or beginning to feel financially secure, they're not necessarily going to be in favour of policies that maintain the status quo.
50% of 35 to 44 year olds had a mortgage in 2017, just 28% were privately renting, hence the Tories still won voters aged 39 or over at the last general election.
On the issue of handouts to oldies can anyone explain why oldies still get reduced entry cost to many sporting events, museums etc ?
I could understand it a generation or two back when there were fewer oldies and they generally had less money but why now ?
Why should a 25 year old have to pay more than a 65 year old to watch the same game when its the 65 year old who has all the wealth, no debts and has the higher income ?
Why do they all get free TV licenses (or they did)?
Why do young people not deserve them? The truth is neither do, in my view.
The young in this country get absolutely shafted, they get absolutely fuck all from the Tories.
The young will get policies they want when they vote in significant enough numbers that their desires matter.
They don't vote in significant enough numbers so their desires are ignored by politicians who focus on currying favour from older age groups who do vote.
If you see above I noted this.
I completely agree with you, if we could be bothered we wouldn't get shafted so much.
It will get worse. The country is ageing and the assumption that today's pissed-off twentysomethings won't drift, on average, further and further towards conservatism as they age - i.e. that the Tories' courting of the grey vote will eventually bite them on the arse as the current generation of pensioners dies out - is heroic.
Remember, though, that people become more conservative as they age because they start to be the people with assets and property and the like. They seek to protect the system that they are now benificiaries of.
If the 45 year olds of tomorrow have no stake in society, if they're not property owners or beginning to feel financially secure, they're not necessarily going to be in favour of policies that maintain the status quo.
It's a possibility. On the other hand, unless those people are utterly destitute then they'll probably have had such a hard slog to accumulate whatever assets then do have that they could be even less willing to hand a portion of them to the state than people from the previous generation who had more to spare.
And then, of course, you finally get to retire and join the stickbanger class, after which the main objective of voting is to pick whichever side will do the best job of bleeding working taxpayers white to pay to look after you.
This, of course, is a crude oversimplification, but you get the general idea.
The last is definitely the case, and results in the oldies in Italy wanting to stay in the Euro (for their pensions), while the youngsters want to leave.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I was just reading about that, it is an excellent idea and one we should fully copy over here. I also agree Blair's 50% target for university graduates was fundamentally stupid and, like many of his ideas (and actions), had very negative long-term effects (don't get me started about PPI....)
Some PPI projects were fine:
Want to add a second Thames river crossing at Dartmouth and have the private sector bear the risk of there not being enough traffic? That's good.
But it was blatantly abused to take public sector debt "off the books".
On the issue of handouts to oldies can anyone explain why oldies still get reduced entry cost to many sporting events, museums etc ?
I could understand it a generation or two back when there were fewer oldies and they generally had less money but why now ?
Why should a 25 year old have to pay more than a 65 year old to watch the same game when its the 65 year old who has all the wealth, no debts and has the higher income ?
Why do they all get free TV licenses (or they did)?
Why do young people not deserve them? The truth is neither do, in my view.
The young in this country get absolutely shafted, they get absolutely fuck all from the Tories.
The young will get policies they want when they vote in significant enough numbers that their desires matter.
They don't vote in significant enough numbers so their desires are ignored by politicians who focus on currying favour from older age groups who do vote.
If you see above I noted this.
I completely agree with you, if we could be bothered we wouldn't get shafted so much.
It will get worse. The country is ageing and the assumption that today's pissed-off twentysomethings won't drift, on average, further and further towards conservatism as they age - i.e. that the Tories' courting of the grey vote will eventually bite them on the arse as the current generation of pensioners dies out - is heroic.
I am not sure that necessarily follows.
We baby boomers have pretty well had jam with everything. Plentiful employment (except in the early 80s) on healthy payment terms, our property values have gone through the roof, for some, a their index linked pensions have given them security in retirement they never dreamt of, and anyway interest rates are historically low, so we can treat ourselves to a new Mercedes Benz every other year. So you are damn right we want to protect our nest eggs from thieving Chancellors.
However, for the generation coming through who have seen sweet FA of these opportunities, their priorities may be different.
Politics is cyclical, the Conservative Party is unlikely to be in Government for perpetuity however magnificent Mr Johnson appears.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I was just reading about that, it is an excellent idea and one we should fully copy over here. I also agree Blair's 50% target for university graduates was fundamentally stupid and, like many of his ideas (and actions), had very negative long-term effects (don't get me started about PPI....)
Or Iraq. Or banking (mis)regulation. Or his European misjudgments (giving away half the Thatcher rebate for nothing and not availing himself of the braking mechanisms for A8 immigration, thus pouring kerosene on the Eurosceptic bonfire.) Or the destruction of the UK itself with his moronic devolution model.
History is unlikely to be kind to any of our recent Prime Ministers, but in the long run Tony Blair may well be viewed as the most destructive.
On the issue of handouts to oldies can anyone explain why oldies still get reduced entry cost to many sporting events, museums etc ?
I could understand it a generation or two back when there were fewer oldies and they generally had less money but why now ?
Why should a 25 year old have to pay more than a 65 year old to watch the same game when its the 65 year old who has all the wealth, no debts and has the higher income ?
Why do they all get free TV licenses (or they did)?
Why do young people not deserve them? The truth is neither do, in my view.
The young in this country get absolutely shafted, they get absolutely fuck all from the Tories.
The young will get policies they want when they vote in significant enough numbers that their desires matter.
They don't vote in significant enough numbers so their desires are ignored by politicians who focus on currying favour from older age groups who do vote.
If you see above I noted this.
I completely agree with you, if we could be bothered we wouldn't get shafted so much.
It will get worse. The country is ageing and the assumption that today's pissed-off twentysomethings won't drift, on average, further and further towards conservatism as they age - i.e. that the Tories' courting of the grey vote will eventually bite them on the arse as the current generation of pensioners dies out - is heroic.
I am not sure that necessarily follows.
We baby boomers have pretty well had jam with everything. Plentiful employment (except in the early 80s) on healthy payment terms, our property values have gone through the roof, for some, a their index linked pensions have given them security in retirement they never dreamt of, and anyway interest rates are historically low, so we can treat ourselves to a new Mercedes Benz every other year. So you are damn right we want to protect our nest eggs from thieving Chancellors.
However, for the generation coming through who have seen sweet FA of these opportunities, their priorities may be different.
Politics is cyclical, the Conservative Party is unlikely to be in Government for perpetuity however magnificent Mr Johnson appears.
Labour hasn't come close to winning a Parliamentary majority for 15 years and counting. It will take a strong performance for Starmer to get in as head of a very weak minority administration next time; more likely it'll have to wait until the one after that.
It may even be that the cycle is broken. The average age of the population increases with every passing year; if tomorrow's older people have less wealth then they may conclude that the current system doesn't work for them, or conversely they may grow even more determined to cling on to what they already have and bleed the young folks white to make up the difference. Who can say?
On the issue of handouts to oldies can anyone explain why oldies still get reduced entry cost to many sporting events, museums etc ?
I could understand it a generation or two back when there were fewer oldies and they generally had less money but why now ?
Why should a 25 year old have to pay more than a 65 year old to watch the same game when its the 65 year old who has all the wealth, no debts and has the higher income ?
Why do they all get free TV licenses (or they did)?
Why do young people not deserve them? The truth is neither do, in my view.
The young in this country get absolutely shafted, they get absolutely fuck all from the Tories.
The young will get policies they want when they vote in significant enough numbers that their desires matter.
They don't vote in significant enough numbers so their desires are ignored by politicians who focus on currying favour from older age groups who do vote.
If you see above I noted this.
I completely agree with you, if we could be bothered we wouldn't get shafted so much.
It will get worse. The country is ageing and the assumption that today's pissed-off twentysomethings won't drift, on average, further and further towards conservatism as they age - i.e. that the Tories' courting of the grey vote will eventually bite them on the arse as the current generation of pensioners dies out - is heroic.
Remember, though, that people become more conservative as they age because they start to be the people with assets and property and the like. They seek to protect the system that they are now benificiaries of.
If the 45 year olds of tomorrow have no stake in society, if they're not property owners or beginning to feel financially secure, they're not necessarily going to be in favour of policies that maintain the status quo.
It's a possibility. On the other hand, unless those people are utterly destitute then they'll probably have had such a hard slog to accumulate whatever assets then do have that they could be even less willing to hand a portion of them to the state than people from the previous generation who had more to spare.
And then, of course, you finally get to retire and join the stickbanger class, after which the main objective of voting is to pick whichever side will do the best job of bleeding working taxpayers white to pay to look after you.
This, of course, is a crude oversimplification, but you get the general idea.
There is also an alternative scenario on this. I would count myself as a (slightly) over 40 year old having accumulated assets far in advance of what those younger than me could achieve if they followed my same career path today. The plight of not being able to own your own home, being priced out of buying local to you has been a known but abstract concern for me. And yes, I vote to protect what I have earned.
But life is funny. Now having to go through a Separation, finding a flat to rent and having to downsize I’m stricken with absolute panic looking at what I may be able to buy when the dust settles. For the first time really I can experience the issue myself.
I think I reside not too far (in fact very close) from Blackrook (from what I’ve pieced together over the course of many comments), and it’s depressing what little housing there is at affordable prices - even for someone like me who earns well above the national average. Without a second income from a partner I’m screwed more or less in my entire constituency. I can’t buy here.
God only knows what it’s like for a first time buyer.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I was just reading about that, it is an excellent idea and one we should fully copy over here. I also agree Blair's 50% target for university graduates was fundamentally stupid and, like many of his ideas (and actions), had very negative long-term effects (don't get me started about PPI....)
Or Iraq. Or banking (mis)regulation. Or his European misjudgments (giving away half the Thatcher rebate for nothing and not availing himself of the braking mechanisms for A8 immigration, thus pouring kerosene on the Eurosceptic bonfire.) Or the destruction of the UK itself with his moronic devolution model.
History is unlikely to be kind to any of our recent Prime Ministers, but in the long run Tony Blair may well be viewed as the most destructive.
I am so glad to be able to say I never voted for Blair
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I was just reading about that, it is an excellent idea and one we should fully copy over here. I also agree Blair's 50% target for university graduates was fundamentally stupid and, like many of his ideas (and actions), had very negative long-term effects (don't get me started about PPI....)
Some PPI projects were fine:
Want to add a second Thames river crossing at Dartmouth and have the private sector bear the risk of there not being enough traffic? That's good.
But it was blatantly abused to take public sector debt "off the books".
Agreed but I have friends in the NHS who talk every time that they can't change a light bulb and have to wait for someone to change it at £50 a pop because of PPI. I truly think Blair will go down as one of the worst PMs
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Far FEWER
Funny you should mention this, I was watching a video on speech today and saying far less is perfectly correct.
Who was saying that? Probably just one person´s opinion, and my opinion is probably just as good as his.
I don't doubt it, it's just disputed, that was my point.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I was just reading about that, it is an excellent idea and one we should fully copy over here. I also agree Blair's 50% target for university graduates was fundamentally stupid and, like many of his ideas (and actions), had very negative long-term effects (don't get me started about PPI....)
Some PPI projects were fine:
Want to add a second Thames river crossing at Dartmouth and have the private sector bear the risk of there not being enough traffic? That's good.
But it was blatantly abused to take public sector debt "off the books".
Agreed but I have friends in the NHS who talk every time that they can't change a light bulb and have to wait for someone to change it at £50 a pop because of PPI. I truly think Blair will go down as one of the worst PMs
Why don't they just change it themselves and not tell anyone?
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I was just reading about that, it is an excellent idea and one we should fully copy over here. I also agree Blair's 50% target for university graduates was fundamentally stupid and, like many of his ideas (and actions), had very negative long-term effects (don't get me started about PPI....)
Some PPI projects were fine:
Want to add a second Thames river crossing at Dartmouth and have the private sector bear the risk of there not being enough traffic? That's good.
But it was blatantly abused to take public sector debt "off the books".
‘Twas a Tory idea, originally. One of many that New Labour liked and ran with.
No party in British history has ever got 60% of the vote in a general election. Baldwin came closest with 56% in 1931 (although the parties forming the a National Government got 67% overall).
But I think I’m right in saying Labour did have scores of over 60% in opinion polls in late 1997.
That seem's unlikely to me and after a slight look-see on the internet I'm inclined to think you're wrong. 1832 for example?
Yes, the Whigs got 67% in 1832 and the Tories 29% in the worst Tory result in British history in terms of the national popular vote
Less than 900,000 people voted in that election...
All indications (historically speaking) are that large majority of non-voters were also pro-Whig in 1832.
Worst US major-party popular vote share in US was 1924 when Democrats under nominee John W. Davis (only nominee ever from West Virginia) garnered just 28.8%.
Which btw was worse even that Stephen Douglas as "regular" Democrat in 1860 with 29.5%; note that Southern Democrat John C. Breckinridge got 18.1% of pop vote that fateful election year.
Although Douglas still came fourth in the electoral college, behind Lincoln, Breckinridge and Bell.
Yes, because Douglas won a lot of votes in states he ended up losing. For example, he garnered 312k in NY, 187k in Ohio, 160k in IL, 116k in IN and lost all four.
Incidentally, in their home state, Honest Abe only carried IL against the Little Giant by +12k votes out of 340k total cast.
I know.
I was trying to make a wry point about the long-standing shortcomings of the electoral college.
Maybe I should have explained more.
Shortcomings of Electoral College obvious - but keeping Stephen Douglas out of the White House was NOT one of them.
Having Breckinridge come nearer on the votes of only slaveholders and traitors, however...
Re: Breckinridge, large marjority of his voters were NOT slaveholders. And a substantial minority were NOT even traitors by your definition. Unless you think there were 179k traitors in Pennsylvania in 1860.
Note PA was in fact a special case, and these were actually Breckinridge-Douglas "fusion" votes. Which shows the risk of making over-broad assumptions.
Perhaps I should have remembered the words of Douglas himself: ‘I do not believe every Breckinridge man is a disunionist, but I do believe every disunionist is a Breckinridge man.’
However, the Pennsylvania votes didn’t count in the end. It’s the South where his electoral votes came from.
Admittedly, there are those who argue secession was a minority view even there.
Anyway, I am off to bed. Good night, one and all.
What Douglas said was spot on. Of the 11 states that eventually seceded and joined the Confederacy, only two - Virginia & Tennessee did NOT give their EVs to Breckinridge. And only two of his states - Arkansas & North Carolina - waited until AFTER Ft Sumter before leaving the union.
Southern Strategy of 1860, at least among disunionists, was to try to throw the presidential election to US House of Reps, by denying any Northern candidate - especially Lincoln but also Douglas - an Electoral College majority (157 of 303). Under the Constitution, in such a case the House would chose between the top 3 candidates AND vote by state delegations, each state casting 1 vote (unless deadlocked by internal tie, in which case 0).
Republican landslide in most Northern states that swamped Douglas (and/or Breckinridge) plus narrow wins in IL, CA & OR wrecked this gambit by giving Lincoln 180 EVs versus Breckinrdge 72, Bell (Constitutional Unionist) 39 (from KY, VA & TN) and Douglas 12 (Missouri + some from NJ)
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
I must not be a swing voter then, since I've often voted Lib Dem
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
I read the other day that the Tories have formally abandoned the 50% target, to strong criticism from Labour...
Wasn't aware Labour had criticised it but that seems a mis-step to me.
I can't speak for the Labour Party, but I am happy to criticise the withdrawal of the 50% graduate ambition. That is not to say post 16 education in anything other than shambolic. Further education, in which I am involved is a farce. Apprenticeships- Pah! They are nothing like the indentured apprenticeships of old. University Education is poor value for money, but it was in my day,-and I got it for free. Focus on Engineering and Science by all means, offload nonsense subjects like Classical History and Latin if they have little function in a dynamic society.
To compete with Germany, Japan and South Korea, if you kick people out of university fair enough, but the answer is not a modern apprenticeship.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I was just reading about that, it is an excellent idea and one we should fully copy over here. I also agree Blair's 50% target for university graduates was fundamentally stupid and, like many of his ideas (and actions), had very negative long-term effects (don't get me started about PPI....)
Or Iraq. Or banking (mis)regulation. Or his European misjudgments (giving away half the Thatcher rebate for nothing and not availing himself of the braking mechanisms for A8 immigration, thus pouring kerosene on the Eurosceptic bonfire.) Or the destruction of the UK itself with his moronic devolution model.
History is unlikely to be kind to any of our recent Prime Ministers, but in the long run Tony Blair may well be viewed as the most destructive.
His 1997-2001 government was OK but after that it went downhill
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
I read the other day that the Tories have formally abandoned the 50% target, to strong criticism from Labour...
Wasn't aware Labour had criticised it but that seems a mis-step to me.
I can't speak for the Labour Party, but I am happy to criticise the withdrawal of the 50% graduate ambition. That is not to say post 16 education in anything other than shambolic. Further education, in which I am involved is a farce. Apprenticeships- Pah! They are nothing like the indentured apprenticeships of old. University Education is poor value for money, but it was in my day,-and I got it for free. Focus on Engineering and Science by all means, offload nonsense subjects like Classical History and Latin if they have little function in a dynamic society.
To compete with Germany, Japan and South Korea, if you kick people out of university fair enough, but the answer is not a modern apprenticeship.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I was just reading about that, it is an excellent idea and one we should fully copy over here. I also agree Blair's 50% target for university graduates was fundamentally stupid and, like many of his ideas (and actions), had very negative long-term effects (don't get me started about PPI....)
Some PPI projects were fine:
Want to add a second Thames river crossing at Dartmouth and have the private sector bear the risk of there not being enough traffic? That's good.
But it was blatantly abused to take public sector debt "off the books".
Agreed but I have friends in the NHS who talk every time that they can't change a light bulb and have to wait for someone to change it at £50 a pop because of PPI. I truly think Blair will go down as one of the worst PMs
PPI is terrible but I've spent the past couple of decades working for global megacorps and I've never changed a lightbulb, swept the floors or done any of 101 other things that would be the responsibility of specialist departments, often outsourced.
On the issue of handouts to oldies can anyone explain why oldies still get reduced entry cost to many sporting events, museums etc ?
I could understand it a generation or two back when there were fewer oldies and they generally had less money but why now ?
Why should a 25 year old have to pay more than a 65 year old to watch the same game when its the 65 year old who has all the wealth, no debts and has the higher income ?
Why do they all get free TV licenses (or they did)?
Why do young people not deserve them? The truth is neither do, in my view.
The young in this country get absolutely shafted, they get absolutely fuck all from the Tories.
The young will get policies they want when they vote in significant enough numbers that their desires matter.
They don't vote in significant enough numbers so their desires are ignored by politicians who focus on currying favour from older age groups who do vote.
If you see above I noted this.
I completely agree with you, if we could be bothered we wouldn't get shafted so much.
It will get worse. The country is ageing and the assumption that today's pissed-off twentysomethings won't drift, on average, further and further towards conservatism as they age - i.e. that the Tories' courting of the grey vote will eventually bite them on the arse as the current generation of pensioners dies out - is heroic.
I am not sure that necessarily follows.
We baby boomers have pretty well had jam with everything. Plentiful employment (except in the early 80s) on healthy payment terms, our property values have gone through the roof, for some, a their index linked pensions have given them security in retirement they never dreamt of, and anyway interest rates are historically low, so we can treat ourselves to a new Mercedes Benz every other year. So you are damn right we want to protect our nest eggs from thieving Chancellors.
However, for the generation coming through who have seen sweet FA of these opportunities, their priorities may be different.
Politics is cyclical, the Conservative Party is unlikely to be in Government for perpetuity however magnificent Mr Johnson appears.
Labour hasn't come close to winning a Parliamentary majority for 15 years and counting. It will take a strong performance for Starmer to get in as head of a very weak minority administration next time; more likely it'll have to wait until the one after that.
It may even be that the cycle is broken. The average age of the population increases with every passing year; if tomorrow's older people have less wealth then they may conclude that the current system doesn't work for them, or conversely they may grow even more determined to cling on to what they already have and bleed the young folks white to make up the difference. Who can say?
The cycle may well be broken in that a party other than Labour becomes the main opposition. But the cycle will be broken, nothing is forever.
I seem to be in a minority of one, in thinking the Conservatives might get punished for the forthcoming economic armageddon. That might change the dynamic.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
I must not be a swing voter then, since I've often voted Lib Dem
If you did not vote Tory in 1997 and 2001 or Labour in 2015 and 2019 or LD in 2015 and 2017 then in my view you can be classed as a swing voter
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I was just reading about that, it is an excellent idea and one we should fully copy over here. I also agree Blair's 50% target for university graduates was fundamentally stupid and, like many of his ideas (and actions), had very negative long-term effects (don't get me started about PPI....)
Some PPI projects were fine:
Want to add a second Thames river crossing at Dartmouth and have the private sector bear the risk of there not being enough traffic? That's good.
But it was blatantly abused to take public sector debt "off the books".
Agreed but I have friends in the NHS who talk every time that they can't change a light bulb and have to wait for someone to change it at £50 a pop because of PPI. I truly think Blair will go down as one of the worst PMs
Why don't they just change it themselves and not tell anyone?
Because they will have a NHS Manager breathing down their necks and worse...
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
I read the other day that the Tories have formally abandoned the 50% target, to strong criticism from Labour...
Wasn't aware Labour had criticised it but that seems a mis-step to me.
I can't speak for the Labour Party, but I am happy to criticise the withdrawal of the 50% graduate ambition. That is not to say post 16 education in anything other than shambolic. Further education, in which I am involved is a farce. Apprenticeships- Pah! They are nothing like the indentured apprenticeships of old. University Education is poor value for money, but it was in my day,-and I got it for free. Focus on Engineering and Science by all means, offload nonsense subjects like Classical History and Latin if they have little function in a dynamic society.
To compete with Germany, Japan and South Korea, if you kick people out of university fair enough, but the answer is not a modern apprenticeship.
Yes, I disagree with the notion that Britons are substantially thicker than comparable countries where 50% is go on to higher education. Even developing countries like Mexico and Turkey beat 20% Tertiary educated. The future economy is knowledge based.
Neither is history and Classics pointless. Both our PM and his chief advisor studied these subjects.
There is much to criticise in the poor quality of much British Tertiary education but that is a different issue.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
I must not be a swing voter then, since I've often voted Lib Dem
If you did not vote Tory in 1997 and 2001 or Labour in 2015 and 2019 or LD in 2015 and 2017 then in my view you can be classed as a swing voter
I voted Lib Dem in 2017 and 2019, does that count?
I can't believe we're having this conversation though, you can't seriously think I'm a swing voter. I'm a leftie!
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
I must not be a swing voter then, since I've often voted Lib Dem
If you did not vote Tory in 1997 and 2001 or Labour in 2015 and 2019 or LD in 2015 and 2017 then in my view you can be classed as a swing voter
I voted Lib Dem in 2017 and 2019, does that count?
I can't believe we're having this conversation though, you can't seriously think I'm a swing voter. I'm a leftie!
Had you pegged as Cornish Nationalist with Devonian tendencies.
Advertising of unhealthy foods banned online and before 9PM on TV
Was concerned about the dog - looked like he might be trying to escape - BUT full pic shows that a very cute canine very eager to go walkabout.
You can NOT accuse yours truly of kicking BoJo's dog around!
Johnson looks like he's aged a lot
Actually thought he looked pretty good in this pic. Maybe the dog put him in a good mood? They CAN be good at that.
My lockdown pup has had that influence on me. More exercise, more time away from the phone, definitely good for my psyche. Having a dog again is great.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
I read the other day that the Tories have formally abandoned the 50% target, to strong criticism from Labour...
Wasn't aware Labour had criticised it but that seems a mis-step to me.
I can't speak for the Labour Party, but I am happy to criticise the withdrawal of the 50% graduate ambition. That is not to say post 16 education in anything other than shambolic. Further education, in which I am involved is a farce. Apprenticeships- Pah! They are nothing like the indentured apprenticeships of old. University Education is poor value for money, but it was in my day,-and I got it for free. Focus on Engineering and Science by all means, offload nonsense subjects like Classical History and Latin if they have little function in a dynamic society.
To compete with Germany, Japan and South Korea, if you kick people out of university fair enough, but the answer is not a modern apprenticeship.
Yes, I disagree with the notion that Britons are substantially thicker than comparable countries where 50% is go on to higher education. Even developing countries like Mexico and Turkey beat 20% Tertiary educated. The future economy is knowledge based.
Neither is history and Classics pointless. Both our PM and his chief advisor studied these subjects.
There is much to criticise in the poor quality of much British Tertiary education but that is a different issue.
The Classical history and Latin reference was a dig at Mr Johnson. If it floats one's boat go for it. Media Studies is the go to subject for criticism by Tories, once again if it floats your boat...etc.
‘Twas a Tory idea, originally. One of many that New Labour liked and ran with.
It was a very good idea, as originally implemented. Unfortunately, as you say, Labour (and more especially Gordon Brown) ran with it, with predictably dire consequences. Of course the excellent coalition government sorted out the mess, but obviously couldn't do anything about the bad contracts Labour had already committed us all to.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
I read the other day that the Tories have formally abandoned the 50% target, to strong criticism from Labour...
Wasn't aware Labour had criticised it but that seems a mis-step to me.
I can't speak for the Labour Party, but I am happy to criticise the withdrawal of the 50% graduate ambition. That is not to say post 16 education in anything other than shambolic. Further education, in which I am involved is a farce. Apprenticeships- Pah! They are nothing like the indentured apprenticeships of old. University Education is poor value for money, but it was in my day,-and I got it for free. Focus on Engineering and Science by all means, offload nonsense subjects like Classical History and Latin if they have little function in a dynamic society.
To compete with Germany, Japan and South Korea, if you kick people out of university fair enough, but the answer is not a modern apprenticeship.
Yes, I disagree with the notion that Britons are substantially thicker than comparable countries where 50% is go on to higher education. Even developing countries like Mexico and Turkey beat 20% Tertiary educated. The future economy is knowledge based.
Neither is history and Classics pointless. Both our PM and his chief advisor studied these subjects.
There is much to criticise in the poor quality of much British Tertiary education but that is a different issue.
The real issue I think is more at the secondary level. Primary and Tertiary education, to me, have a clear understanding of what their purpose is - Primary to provide the basics in life, Tertiary to (theoretically) deepen knowledge in a particular area and, in the case of areas such as medicine and engineering, provide a gateway to a career. But I don't think we have a proper grasp on what Secondary education is for - is it merely to be a filter and provide an entryway to university who can make it? Should it be to prepare an adolescent for their life as an adult?
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
Because I voted Labour when I was 18?
If every Tory who voted Labour when they were 18 was ruled out for life from being a Tory there wouldn't be as many Tories . . .
Anyone, I've never claimed to be a party loyalist. I don't find anything productive in being one, if my party is in the wrong I'd rather distance myself from it than back it. You clearly are the other way around.
Advertising of unhealthy foods banned online and before 9PM on TV
Was concerned about the dog - looked like he might be trying to escape - BUT full pic shows that a very cute canine very eager to go walkabout.
You can NOT accuse yours truly of kicking BoJo's dog around!
Johnson looks like he's aged a lot
Actually thought he looked pretty good in this pic. Maybe the dog put him in a good mood? They CAN be good at that.
My lockdown pup has had that influence on me. More exercise, more time away from the phone, definitely good for my psyche. Having a dog again is great.
By & large the pandemic has been great for the dogs. Less so for the cats. And doubt if the chickens care one way or another.
All the best to your doggie companion - give the pup an extra pork chop for me!
Why is Labour asking the Gov't to apologise for its Spain announcement. Would Labour not have implemented such a move just because it inconviences some people. People heading abroad must know there is a risk of this sort of thing and I don't think it's a good look for Labour to criticise the Gov't here. The Gov't is spot on on this one.
Advertising of unhealthy foods banned online and before 9PM on TV
Was concerned about the dog - looked like he might be trying to escape - BUT full pic shows that a very cute canine very eager to go walkabout.
You can NOT accuse yours truly of kicking BoJo's dog around!
Johnson looks like he's aged a lot
Actually thought he looked pretty good in this pic. Maybe the dog put him in a good mood? They CAN be good at that.
My lockdown pup has had that influence on me. More exercise, more time away from the phone, definitely good for my psyche. Having a dog again is great.
By & large the pandemic has been great for the dogs. Less so for the cats. And doubt if the chickens care one way or another.
All the best to your doggie companion - give the pup an extra pork chop for me!
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
I must not be a swing voter then, since I've often voted Lib Dem
If you did not vote Tory in 1997 and 2001 or Labour in 2015 and 2019 or LD in 2015 and 2017 then in my view you can be classed as a swing voter
I voted Lib Dem in 2017 and 2019, does that count?
I can't believe we're having this conversation though, you can't seriously think I'm a swing voter. I'm a leftie!
No as you did not vote LD in 2015 too when they were down to their core vote
Yes, I disagree with the notion that Britons are substantially thicker than comparable countries where 50% is go on to higher education. Even developing countries like Mexico and Turkey beat 20% Tertiary educated. The future economy is knowledge based.
Neither is history and Classics pointless. Both our PM and his chief advisor studied these subjects.
There is much to criticise in the poor quality of much British Tertiary education but that is a different issue.
The Classical history and Latin reference was a dig at Mr Johnson. If it floats one's boat go for it. Media Studies is the go to subject for criticism by Tories, once again if it floats your boat...etc.
How does the UK rate in international comparisons of Classics and PPE?
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
I must not be a swing voter then, since I've often voted Lib Dem
If you did not vote Tory in 1997 and 2001 or Labour in 2015 and 2019 or LD in 2015 and 2017 then in my view you can be classed as a swing voter
I voted Lib Dem in 2017 and 2019, does that count?
I can't believe we're having this conversation though, you can't seriously think I'm a swing voter. I'm a leftie!
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
Because I voted Labour when I was 18?
If every Tory who voted Labour when they were 18 was ruled out for life from being a Tory there wouldn't be as many Tories . . .
Anyone, I've never claimed to be a party loyalist. I don't find anything productive in being one, if my party is in the wrong I'd rather distance myself from it than back it. You clearly are the other way around.
If you continue to vote Tory at every general election from now until you are 65 without fail we might possibly include you as a Tory loyalist, for now you are still a rightleaning swing voter.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing wene should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
Because I voted Labour when I was 18?
If every Tory who voted Labour when they were 18 was ruled out for life from being a Tory there wouldn't be as many Tories . . .
Anyone, I've never claimed to be a party loyalist. I don't find anything productive in being one, if my party is in the wrong I'd rather distance myself from it than back it. You clearly are the other way around.
If you continue to vote Tory from now until you are 65 without fail we might possibly include you as a Tory loyalist, for now you are still a rightleaning swing voter
No, I'm a Tory but I'm not a loyalist. I don't want to be a loyalist thank you very much.
The Tories need to earn my vote, not the other way around. If the Tories depart from offering what I want then I'll vote for someone else if they do. As should anyone rational.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
I must not be a swing voter then, since I've often voted Lib Dem
If you did not vote Tory in 1997 and 2001 or Labour in 2015 and 2019 or LD in 2015 and 2017 then in my view you can be classed as a swing voter
I voted Lib Dem in 2017 and 2019, does that count?
I can't believe we're having this conversation though, you can't seriously think I'm a swing voter. I'm a leftie!
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I was just reading about that, it is an excellent idea and one we should fully copy over here. I also agree Blair's 50% target for university graduates was fundamentally stupid and, like many of his ideas (and actions), had very negative long-term effects (don't get me started about PPI....)
Some PPI projects were fine:
Want to add a second Thames river crossing at Dartmouth and have the private sector bear the risk of there not being enough traffic? That's good.
But it was blatantly abused to take public sector debt "off the books".
‘Twas a Tory idea, originally. One of many that New Labour liked and ran with.
When PPI was brought in (on an initially fairly modest scale) by the SLab-LD coalition in Scotland, they were berated by the then Scon leader, David McLetchie, for their measly lack of ambition in not turning over all Scotland's public works to it.
Why is Labour asking the Gov't to apologise for its Spain announcement. Would Labour not have implemented such a move just because it inconviences some people. People heading abroad must know there is a risk of this sort of thing and I don't think it's a good look for Labour to criticise the Gov't here. The Gov't is spot on on this one.
I don't think even people who are mad as hell about what has happened will see anything other than politicial opportunism in Labour's response.
That said, does anyone understand why the government seem so resistant to the idea of people being able to escape quarantine (or at least shorten it substantially) by getting themselves tested?
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I was just reading about that, it is an excellent idea and one we should fully copy over here. I also agree Blair's 50% target for university graduates was fundamentally stupid and, like many of his ideas (and actions), had very negative long-term effects (don't get me started about PPI....)
Some PPI projects were fine:
Want to add a second Thames river crossing at Dartmouth and have the private sector bear the risk of there not being enough traffic? That's good.
But it was blatantly abused to take public sector debt "off the books".
‘Twas a Tory idea, originally. One of many that New Labour liked and ran with.
When PPI was brought in (on an initially fairly modest scale) by the SLab-LD coalition in Scotland, they were berated by the then Scon leader, David McLetchie, for their measly lack of ambition in not turning over all Scotland's public works to it.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I was just reading about that, it is an excellent idea and one we should fully copy over here. I also agree Blair's 50% target for university graduates was fundamentally stupid and, like many of his ideas (and actions), had very negative long-term effects (don't get me started about PPI....)
Some PPI projects were fine:
Want to add a second Thames river crossing at Dartmouth and have the private sector bear the risk of there not being enough traffic? That's good.
But it was blatantly abused to take public sector debt "off the books".
Agreed but I have friends in the NHS who talk every time that they can't change a light bulb and have to wait for someone to change it at £50 a pop because of PPI. I truly think Blair will go down as one of the worst PMs
Appalling PPI projects predated the Labour Party victory in 1997. When I was at University in the 1992 to 1995 period, they were used to borrow to pay for student halls of residence, rather than the university (and therefore the state) borrowing directly.
Of course, there was no real transference of risk to the private sector. The university still administered the halls and was responsible for finding students to fill them.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing wene should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
Because I voted Labour when I was 18?
If every Tory who voted Labour when they were 18 was ruled out for life from being a Tory there wouldn't be as many Tories . . .
Anyone, I've never claimed to be a party loyalist. I don't find anything productive in being one, if my party is in the wrong I'd rather distance myself from it than back it. You clearly are the other way around.
If you continue to vote Tory from now until you are 65 without fail we might possibly include you as a Tory loyalist, for now you are still a rightleaning swing voter
No, I'm a Tory but I'm not a loyalist. I don't want to be a loyalist thank you very much.
The Tories need to earn my vote, not the other way around. If the Tories depart from offering what I want then I'll vote for someone else if they do. As should anyone rational.
Which is why you are still a swing voter then, not a party loyalist
Yes, I disagree with the notion that Britons are substantially thicker than comparable countries where 50% is go on to higher education. Even developing countries like Mexico and Turkey beat 20% Tertiary educated. The future economy is knowledge based.
Neither is history and Classics pointless. Both our PM and his chief advisor studied these subjects.
There is much to criticise in the poor quality of much British Tertiary education but that is a different issue.
The Classical history and Latin reference was a dig at Mr Johnson. If it floats one's boat go for it. Media Studies is the go to subject for criticism by Tories, once again if it floats your boat...etc.
How does the UK rate in international comparisons of Classics and PPE?
I don't know, but I am a Bsc.(Econ.) in Politics, (PPE, without the thinking or the difficult bit) which has no earthly use whatsoever.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I was just reading about that, it is an excellent idea and one we should fully copy over here. I also agree Blair's 50% target for university graduates was fundamentally stupid and, like many of his ideas (and actions), had very negative long-term effects (don't get me started about PPI....)
Some PPI projects were fine:
Want to add a second Thames river crossing at Dartmouth and have the private sector bear the risk of there not being enough traffic? That's good.
But it was blatantly abused to take public sector debt "off the books".
‘Twas a Tory idea, originally. One of many that New Labour liked and ran with.
When PPI was brought in (on an initially fairly modest scale) by the SLab-LD coalition in Scotland, they were berated by the then Scon leader, David McLetchie, for their measly lack of ambition in not turning over all Scotland's public works to it.
It's PFI not PPI FFS!!!
Sorry, I got my mis-selling fuckups mixed up.
I made money on one of them and lost on the other, that should concentrate my mind.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing wene should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
Because I voted Labour when I was 18?
If every Tory who voted Labour when they were 18 was ruled out for life from being a Tory there wouldn't be as many Tories . . .
Anyone, I've never claimed to be a party loyalist. I don't find anything productive in being one, if my party is in the wrong I'd rather distance myself from it than back it. You clearly are the other way around.
If you continue to vote Tory from now until you are 65 without fail we might possibly include you as a Tory loyalist, for now you are still a rightleaning swing voter
No, I'm a Tory but I'm not a loyalist. I don't want to be a loyalist thank you very much.
The Tories need to earn my vote, not the other way around. If the Tories depart from offering what I want then I'll vote for someone else if they do. As should anyone rational.
Which is why you are still a swing voter then, not a party loyalist
The robot has malfunctioned, it keeps repeating itself. Shall I call Microsoft?
Yes, I disagree with the notion that Britons are substantially thicker than comparable countries where 50% is go on to higher education. Even developing countries like Mexico and Turkey beat 20% Tertiary educated. The future economy is knowledge based.
Neither is history and Classics pointless. Both our PM and his chief advisor studied these subjects.
There is much to criticise in the poor quality of much British Tertiary education but that is a different issue.
The Classical history and Latin reference was a dig at Mr Johnson. If it floats one's boat go for it. Media Studies is the go to subject for criticism by Tories, once again if it floats your boat...etc.
How does the UK rate in international comparisons of Classics and PPE?
I don't know, but I am a Bsc.(Econ.) in Politics, (PPE, without the thinking or the difficult bit) which has no earthly use whatsoever.
On the issue of handouts to oldies can anyone explain why oldies still get reduced entry cost to many sporting events, museums etc ?
I could understand it a generation or two back when there were fewer oldies and they generally had less money but why now ?
Why should a 25 year old have to pay more than a 65 year old to watch the same game when its the 65 year old who has all the wealth, no debts and has the higher income ?
Why do they all get free TV licenses (or they did)?
Why do young people not deserve them? The truth is neither do, in my view.
The young in this country get absolutely shafted, they get absolutely fuck all from the Tories.
The young will get policies they want when they vote in significant enough numbers that their desires matter.
They don't vote in significant enough numbers so their desires are ignored by politicians who focus on currying favour from older age groups who do vote.
If you see above I noted this.
I completely agree with you, if we could be bothered we wouldn't get shafted so much.
It will get worse. The country is ageing and the assumption that today's pissed-off twentysomethings won't drift, on average, further and further towards conservatism as they age - i.e. that the Tories' courting of the grey vote will eventually bite them on the arse as the current generation of pensioners dies out - is heroic.
Remember, though, that people become more conservative as they age because they start to be the people with assets and property and the like. They seek to protect the system that they are now benificiaries of.
If the 45 year olds of tomorrow have no stake in society, if they're not property owners or beginning to feel financially secure, they're not necessarily going to be in favour of policies that maintain the status quo.
50% of 35 to 44 year olds had a mortgage in 2017, just 28% were privately renting, hence the Tories still won voters aged 39 or over at the last general election.
Most of those voters will also benefit from a significant inheritance as they reach 50 to 60
You keep asserting that. I am 53 and my partner's 48. We have just lost the first of our parents. My partner has just lost her penultimate grandparent. Plenty won't inherit before retirement. Plenty, like my 71 year old father-in-law will spend many many years of retirement caring for their own elderly parents. I don't know a single person of my age who has inherited from their parents. Cue many to say they have, but it is not common at all in my experience.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing wene should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
Because I voted Labour when I was 18?
If every Tory who voted Labour when they were 18 was ruled out for life from being a Tory there wouldn't be as many Tories . . .
Anyone, I've never claimed to be a party loyalist. I don't find anything productive in being one, if my party is in the wrong I'd rather distance myself from it than back it. You clearly are the other way around.
If you continue to vote Tory from now until you are 65 without fail we might possibly include you as a Tory loyalist, for now you are still a rightleaning swing voter
No, I'm a Tory but I'm not a loyalist. I don't want to be a loyalist thank you very much.
The Tories need to earn my vote, not the other way around. If the Tories depart from offering what I want then I'll vote for someone else if they do. As should anyone rational.
Which is why you are still a swing voter then, not a party loyalist
I'm not a swing voter since I don't swing in my voting. I'm a Tory, but not a loyalist.
If the Tories departed from my principles I'd happily support an equivalent of the Lincoln Project. If they depart from yours what would you do? Change your principles?
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing wene should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
Because I voted Labour when I was 18?
If every Tory who voted Labour when they were 18 was ruled out for life from being a Tory there wouldn't be as many Tories . . .
Anyone, I've never claimed to be a party loyalist. I don't find anything productive in being one, if my party is in the wrong I'd rather distance myself from it than back it. You clearly are the other way around.
If you continue to vote Tory from now until you are 65 without fail we might possibly include you as a Tory loyalist, for now you are still a rightleaning swing voter
No, I'm a Tory but I'm not a loyalist. I don't want to be a loyalist thank you very much.
The Tories need to earn my vote, not the other way around. If the Tories depart from offering what I want then I'll vote for someone else if they do. As should anyone rational.
Which is why you are still a swing voter then, not a party loyalist
This is a very bizarre conversation. Philip consistently arguing that he isn't a party loyalist and HYUFD vigorously agreeing with him whilst convinced he is involved in an argument.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing wene should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
Because I voted Labour when I was 18?
If every Tory who voted Labour when they were 18 was ruled out for life from being a Tory there wouldn't be as many Tories . . .
Anyone, I've never claimed to be a party loyalist. I don't find anything productive in being one, if my party is in the wrong I'd rather distance myself from it than back it. You clearly are the other way around.
If you continue to vote Tory from now until you are 65 without fail we might possibly include you as a Tory loyalist, for now you are still a rightleaning swing voter
No, I'm a Tory but I'm not a loyalist. I don't want to be a loyalist thank you very much.
The Tories need to earn my vote, not the other way around. If the Tories depart from offering what I want then I'll vote for someone else if they do. As should anyone rational.
Which is why you are still a swing voter then, not a party loyalist
I'm not a swing voter since I don't swing in my voting. I'm a Tory, but not a loyalist.
If the Tories departed from my principles I'd happily support an equivalent of the Lincoln Project. If they depart from yours what would you do? Change your principles?
You are slowly gaining my respect back Philip_Thompson. Go!
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing wene should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
Because I voted Labour when I was 18?
If every Tory who voted Labour when they were 18 was ruled out for life from being a Tory there wouldn't be as many Tories . . .
Anyone, I've never claimed to be a party loyalist. I don't find anything productive in being one, if my party is in the wrong I'd rather distance myself from it than back it. You clearly are the other way around.
If you continue to vote Tory from now until you are 65 without fail we might possibly include you as a Tory loyalist, for now you are still a rightleaning swing voter
No, I'm a Tory but I'm not a loyalist. I don't want to be a loyalist thank you very much.
The Tories need to earn my vote, not the other way around. If the Tories depart from offering what I want then I'll vote for someone else if they do. As should anyone rational.
Which is why you are still a swing voter then, not a party loyalist
This is a very bizarre conversation. Philip consistently arguing that he isn't a party loyalist and HYUFD vigorously agreeing with him whilst convinced he is involved in an argument.
It's slightly surreal. I wonder if HFUYD has anything better to do with his life quite honestly
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing wene should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
Because I voted Labour when I was 18?
If every Tory who voted Labour when they were 18 was ruled out for life from being a Tory there wouldn't be as many Tories . . .
Anyone, I've never claimed to be a party loyalist. I don't find anything productive in being one, if my party is in the wrong I'd rather distance myself from it than back it. You clearly are the other way around.
If you continue to vote Tory from now until you are 65 without fail we might possibly include you as a Tory loyalist, for now you are still a rightleaning swing voter
No, I'm a Tory but I'm not a loyalist. I don't want to be a loyalist thank you very much.
The Tories need to earn my vote, not the other way around. If the Tories depart from offering what I want then I'll vote for someone else if they do. As should anyone rational.
Which is why you are still a swing voter then, not a party loyalist
I'm not a swing voter since I don't swing in my voting. I'm a Tory, but not a loyalist.
If the Tories departed from my principles I'd happily support an equivalent of the Lincoln Project. If they depart from yours what would you do? Change your principles?
You are not a Tory, you have said yourself you voted Labour in 2001, you just swung to the Tories from 2005, on canvass cards going back that far you would be classed as a P at most not a solid C
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing wene should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
Because I voted Labour when I was 18?
If every Tory who voted Labour when they were 18 was ruled out for life from being a Tory there wouldn't be as many Tories . . .
Anyone, I've never claimed to be a party loyalist. I don't find anything productive in being one, if my party is in the wrong I'd rather distance myself from it than back it. You clearly are the other way around.
If you continue to vote Tory from now until you are 65 without fail we might possibly include you as a Tory loyalist, for now you are still a rightleaning swing voter
No, I'm a Tory but I'm not a loyalist. I don't want to be a loyalist thank you very much.
The Tories need to earn my vote, not the other way around. If the Tories depart from offering what I want then I'll vote for someone else if they do. As should anyone rational.
Which is why you are still a swing voter then, not a party loyalist
This is a very bizarre conversation. Philip consistently arguing that he isn't a party loyalist and HYUFD vigorously agreeing with him whilst convinced he is involved in an argument.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing wene should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
Because I voted Labour when I was 18?
If every Tory who voted Labour when they were 18 was ruled out for life from being a Tory there wouldn't be as many Tories . . .
Anyone, I've never claimed to be a party loyalist. I don't find anything productive in being one, if my party is in the wrong I'd rather distance myself from it than back it. You clearly are the other way around.
If you continue to vote Tory from now until you are 65 without fail we might possibly include you as a Tory loyalist, for now you are still a rightleaning swing voter
No, I'm a Tory but I'm not a loyalist. I don't want to be a loyalist thank you very much.
The Tories need to earn my vote, not the other way around. If the Tories depart from offering what I want then I'll vote for someone else if they do. As should anyone rational.
Which is why you are still a swing voter then, not a party loyalist
I'm not a swing voter since I don't swing in my voting. I'm a Tory, but not a loyalist.
If the Tories departed from my principles I'd happily support an equivalent of the Lincoln Project. If they depart from yours what would you do? Change your principles?
You are not a Tory, you have said yourself you voted Labour in 2001, on canvass cards going back that far you would be classed as a P at most not a sold C
You are such a bore lol, this is why people think you're a bot/troll/CCHQ plant
Is the boycott of Twitter in the name of anti-Semitism supposed to be hurting Twitter's bottom line?
Should Labour be supporting it and boycotting Twitter for two days? I'm not really sure what such a thing would achieve? Are they not constitutionally obligated to oppose/scrutinise the Government?
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing wene should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
Because I voted Labour when I was 18?
If every Tory who voted Labour when they were 18 was ruled out for life from being a Tory there wouldn't be as many Tories . . .
Anyone, I've never claimed to be a party loyalist. I don't find anything productive in being one, if my party is in the wrong I'd rather distance myself from it than back it. You clearly are the other way around.
If you continue to vote Tory from now until you are 65 without fail we might possibly include you as a Tory loyalist, for now you are still a rightleaning swing voter
No, I'm a Tory but I'm not a loyalist. I don't want to be a loyalist thank you very much.
The Tories need to earn my vote, not the other way around. If the Tories depart from offering what I want then I'll vote for someone else if they do. As should anyone rational.
Which is why you are still a swing voter then, not a party loyalist
I'm not a swing voter since I don't swing in my voting. I'm a Tory, but not a loyalist.
If the Tories departed from my principles I'd happily support an equivalent of the Lincoln Project. If they depart from yours what would you do? Change your principles?
You are slowly gaining my respect back Philip_Thompson. Go!
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing wene should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
Because I voted Labour when I was 18?
If every Tory who voted Labour when they were 18 was ruled out for life from being a Tory there wouldn't be as many Tories . . .
Anyone, I've never claimed to be a party loyalist. I don't find anything productive in being one, if my party is in the wrong I'd rather distance myself from it than back it. You clearly are the other way around.
If you continue to vote Tory from now until you are 65 without fail we might possibly include you as a Tory loyalist, for now you are still a rightleaning swing voter
No, I'm a Tory but I'm not a loyalist. I don't want to be a loyalist thank you very much.
The Tories need to earn my vote, not the other way around. If the Tories depart from offering what I want then I'll vote for someone else if they do. As should anyone rational.
Which is why you are still a swing voter then, not a party loyalist
I'm not a swing voter since I don't swing in my voting. I'm a Tory, but not a loyalist.
If the Tories departed from my principles I'd happily support an equivalent of the Lincoln Project. If they depart from yours what would you do? Change your principles?
You are slowly gaining my respect back Philip_Thompson. Go!
I get that surprisingly often on this site!
I have strong beliefs and that comes across but they're my beliefs not somebody else's!
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
I read the other day that the Tories have formally abandoned the 50% target, to strong criticism from Labour...
Wasn't aware Labour had criticised it but that seems a mis-step to me.
I can't speak for the Labour Party, but I am happy to criticise the withdrawal of the 50% graduate ambition. That is not to say post 16 education in anything other than shambolic. Further education, in which I am involved is a farce. Apprenticeships- Pah! They are nothing like the indentured apprenticeships of old. University Education is poor value for money, but it was in my day,-and I got it for free. Focus on Engineering and Science by all means, offload nonsense subjects like Classical History and Latin if they have little function in a dynamic society.
To compete with Germany, Japan and South Korea, if you kick people out of university fair enough, but the answer is not a modern apprenticeship.
Yes, I disagree with the notion that Britons are substantially thicker than comparable countries where 50% is go on to higher education. Even developing countries like Mexico and Turkey beat 20% Tertiary educated. The future economy is knowledge based.
Neither is history and Classics pointless. Both our PM and his chief advisor studied these subjects.
There is much to criticise in the poor quality of much British Tertiary education but that is a different issue.
The real issue I think is more at the secondary level. Primary and Tertiary education, to me, have a clear understanding of what their purpose is - Primary to provide the basics in life, Tertiary to (theoretically) deepen knowledge in a particular area and, in the case of areas such as medicine and engineering, provide a gateway to a career. But I don't think we have a proper grasp on what Secondary education is for - is it merely to be a filter and provide an entryway to university who can make it? Should it be to prepare an adolescent for their life as an adult?
I've always found the N American idea of graduating High School better. Shows a basic, often very, level of attainment and commitment. That should be what Secondary schools ought to be for.
On the issue of handouts to oldies can anyone explain why oldies still get reduced entry cost to many sporting events, museums etc ?
I could understand it a generation or two back when there were fewer oldies and they generally had less money but why now ?
Why should a 25 year old have to pay more than a 65 year old to watch the same game when its the 65 year old who has all the wealth, no debts and has the higher income ?
Why do they all get free TV licenses (or they did)?
Why do young people not deserve them? The truth is neither do, in my view.
The young in this country get absolutely shafted, they get absolutely fuck all from the Tories.
The young will get policies they want when they vote in significant enough numbers that their desires matter.
They don't vote in significant enough numbers so their desires are ignored by politicians who focus on currying favour from older age groups who do vote.
If you see above I noted this.
I completely agree with you, if we could be bothered we wouldn't get shafted so much.
It will get worse. The country is ageing and the assumption that today's pissed-off twentysomethings won't drift, on average, further and further towards conservatism as they age - i.e. that the Tories' courting of the grey vote will eventually bite them on the arse as the current generation of pensioners dies out - is heroic.
Remember, though, that people become more conservative as they age because they start to be the people with assets and property and the like. They seek to protect the system that they are now benificiaries of.
If the 45 year olds of tomorrow have no stake in society, if they're not property owners or beginning to feel financially secure, they're not necessarily going to be in favour of policies that maintain the status quo.
50% of 35 to 44 year olds had a mortgage in 2017, just 28% were privately renting, hence the Tories still won voters aged 39 or over at the last general election.
Most of those voters will also benefit from a significant inheritance as they reach 50 to 60
You keep asserting that. I am 53 and my partner's 48. We have just lost the first of our parents. My partner has just lost her penultimate grandparent. Plenty won't inherit before retirement. Plenty, like my 71 year old father-in-law will spend many many years of retirement caring for their own elderly parents. I don't know a single person of my age who has inherited from their parents. Cue many to say they have, but it is not common at all in my experience.
Given the average 50 year old or certainly the average 60 year old will have parents approaching 80 and average life expectancy that is the life period most are likely to inherit and if their parents owned their own property or had any other assets in most cases an inheritance would pass on
On the issue of handouts to oldies can anyone explain why oldies still get reduced entry cost to many sporting events, museums etc ?
I could understand it a generation or two back when there were fewer oldies and they generally had less money but why now ?
Why should a 25 year old have to pay more than a 65 year old to watch the same game when its the 65 year old who has all the wealth, no debts and has the higher income ?
Why do they all get free TV licenses (or they did)?
Why do young people not deserve them? The truth is neither do, in my view.
The young in this country get absolutely shafted, they get absolutely fuck all from the Tories.
The young will get policies they want when they vote in significant enough numbers that their desires matter.
They don't vote in significant enough numbers so their desires are ignored by politicians who focus on currying favour from older age groups who do vote.
If you see above I noted this.
I completely agree with you, if we could be bothered we wouldn't get shafted so much.
It will get worse. The country is ageing and the assumption that today's pissed-off twentysomethings won't drift, on average, further and further towards conservatism as they age - i.e. that the Tories' courting of the grey vote will eventually bite them on the arse as the current generation of pensioners dies out - is heroic.
Remember, though, that people become more conservative as they age because they start to be the people with assets and property and the like. They seek to protect the system that they are now benificiaries of.
If the 45 year olds of tomorrow have no stake in society, if they're not property owners or beginning to feel financially secure, they're not necessarily going to be in favour of policies that maintain the status quo.
50% of 35 to 44 year olds had a mortgage in 2017, just 28% were privately renting, hence the Tories still won voters aged 39 or over at the last general election.
Most of those voters will also benefit from a significant inheritance as they reach 50 to 60
You keep asserting that. I am 53 and my partner's 48. We have just lost the first of our parents. My partner has just lost her penultimate grandparent. Plenty won't inherit before retirement. Plenty, like my 71 year old father-in-law will spend many many years of retirement caring for their own elderly parents. I don't know a single person of my age who has inherited from their parents. Cue many to say they have, but it is not common at all in my experience.
A general annual wealth tax to replace inheritance tax sorts that particular problem I think.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing wene should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
Because I voted Labour when I was 18?
If every Tory who voted Labour when they were 18 was ruled out for life from being a Tory there wouldn't be as many Tories . . .
Anyone, I've never claimed to be a party loyalist. I don't find anything productive in being one, if my party is in the wrong I'd rather distance myself from it than back it. You clearly are the other way around.
If you continue to vote Tory from now until you are 65 without fail we might possibly include you as a Tory loyalist, for now you are still a rightleaning swing voter
No, I'm a Tory but I'm not a loyalist. I don't want to be a loyalist thank you very much.
The Tories need to earn my vote, not the other way around. If the Tories depart from offering what I want then I'll vote for someone else if they do. As should anyone rational.
Which is why you are still a swing voter then, not a party loyalist
I'm not a swing voter since I don't swing in my voting. I'm a Tory, but not a loyalist.
If the Tories departed from my principles I'd happily support an equivalent of the Lincoln Project. If they depart from yours what would you do? Change your principles?
You are not a Tory, you have said yourself you voted Labour in 2001, on canvass cards going back that far you would be classed as a P at most not a sold C
You are such a bore lol, this is why people think you're a bot/troll/CCHQ plant
I could not care less what people think of me, I am not going to make a factually incorrect statement to please other people
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I was just reading about that, it is an excellent idea and one we should fully copy over here. I also agree Blair's 50% target for university graduates was fundamentally stupid and, like many of his ideas (and actions), had very negative long-term effects (don't get me started about PPI....)
Some PPI projects were fine:
Want to add a second Thames river crossing at Dartmouth and have the private sector bear the risk of there not being enough traffic? That's good.
But it was blatantly abused to take public sector debt "off the books".
A Thames crossing over the River Dart seems a bit of a waste of money though.
Yes, I disagree with the notion that Britons are substantially thicker than comparable countries where 50% is go on to higher education. Even developing countries like Mexico and Turkey beat 20% Tertiary educated. The future economy is knowledge based.
Neither is history and Classics pointless. Both our PM and his chief advisor studied these subjects.
There is much to criticise in the poor quality of much British Tertiary education but that is a different issue.
The Classical history and Latin reference was a dig at Mr Johnson. If it floats one's boat go for it. Media Studies is the go to subject for criticism by Tories, once again if it floats your boat...etc.
How does the UK rate in international comparisons of Classics and PPE?
I don't know, but I am a Bsc.(Econ.) in Politics, (PPE, without the thinking or the difficult bit) which has no earthly use whatsoever.
Wow, far more intelligent than I
The quality of teaching was woeful at times, although some Professors were inspirational too. The late Barry Jones, who was ex Labour, ex SDP, a driving force for the development of Cardiff Bay and a BBC Wales go-to at election times. I loved University.
I have subsequently learned more at the University of Life.
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing we should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
I must not be a swing voter then, since I've often voted Lib Dem
If you did not vote Tory in 1997 and 2001 or Labour in 2015 and 2019 or LD in 2015 and 2017 then in my view you can be classed as a swing voter
I voted Lib Dem in 2017 and 2019, does that count?
I can't believe we're having this conversation though, you can't seriously think I'm a swing voter. I'm a leftie!
Had you pegged as Cornish Nationalist with Devonian tendencies.
A cornish nationalist with devonian tendencies is what we quite rightly call a traitor
I bet this will be introduced in a couple of years just as I turn 40 too. Student grants were abolished and tuition fees introduced just as I started university so I had to pay fees while students who'd started previously didn't. I know full well pensions by the time we retire are going to be crap too. Now this . . . I can see it happening!
They should definitely make it 50 or 55. Our generation seems to have become the most put upon, unable to buy property because our parents' generation pulled the ladder up behind them, huge childcare costs and longer living parents resulting in huge care costs.
We definitely have become the very definition of the "squeezed middle" politicians love talking about. I'm lucky to have a career that has affordede a fairly comfortable life and the chance to own my own home but loads of my friends are t so fortunate.
Our generation also inherits far more on average than any previous generation did and also far more of use went to university
It remains disputed how much ‘of use’ we are...
I'm of the view that the 50% uni target was a big mistake and far less of our lot should be going to university.
I agree with @MaxPB's sentiment though, our lot are getting screwed. We don't vote Tory, they offer us nothing.
Agree 100%. It has had a double negative impact of both providing many students with useless degrees instead of practical training or apprenticeships whilst at the same time devaluing those degrees and courses which would otherwise be considered of value.
I think the Australian plans to overhaul university funding look to be exactly the thing wene should be doing here.
I would halve the number of people going to university, cut the number of degrees, cut the costs of the remainder of degrees and increase apprenticeships.
I would vote for you.
One of the great shames of the 50% idea from Major was that it removed the incentive for Government to fund those students doing courses that benefit our country - or at least gave them a perfect excuse to stop the funding.
This was very short sighted and damaging for the country.
You haven't heard my other views yet.
I support public ownership of the railways, increases in tax on the wealthiest.
A 100% tax on Islington mansion owners with large legal funds? I’m listening...
Nobody is safe.
I would also be far more prepared to own up to my mistakes, unlike Corbyn. I've said many times I regret supporting him but at least I am honest enough to say so. I hope that counts for something.
In the spirit of that, I made the mistake of voting for New Labour in 2001 because I disliked Hague, liked Blair and thought "iron Chancellor" Brown could be trusted . . .
Yet 31% of voters stuck with the Tories, including me, so at most you can be said to be a right leaning swing voter, not a Tory
Because I voted Labour when I was 18?
If every Tory who voted Labour when they were 18 was ruled out for life from being a Tory there wouldn't be as many Tories . . .
Anyone, I've never claimed to be a party loyalist. I don't find anything productive in being one, if my party is in the wrong I'd rather distance myself from it than back it. You clearly are the other way around.
If you continue to vote Tory from now until you are 65 without fail we might possibly include you as a Tory loyalist, for now you are still a rightleaning swing voter
No, I'm a Tory but I'm not a loyalist. I don't want to be a loyalist thank you very much.
The Tories need to earn my vote, not the other way around. If the Tories depart from offering what I want then I'll vote for someone else if they do. As should anyone rational.
Which is why you are still a swing voter then, not a party loyalist
The robot has malfunctioned, it keeps repeating itself. Shall I call Microsoft?
He merely thinks a party loyalist is a compliment rather than what it really is which is a comment calling you a bot with no mind of your own except what the party decrees is good....he may as well be a speak your weight machine with a direct line to party hq
Comments
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/ageing/articles/livinglonger/changesinhousingtenureovertime
Most of those voters will also benefit from a significant inheritance as they reach 50 to 60
Want to add a second Thames river crossing at Dartmouth and have the private sector bear the risk of there not being enough traffic? That's good.
But it was blatantly abused to take public sector debt "off the books".
We baby boomers have pretty well had jam with everything. Plentiful employment (except in the early 80s) on healthy payment terms, our property values have gone through the roof, for some, a their index linked pensions have given them security in retirement they never dreamt of, and anyway interest rates are historically low, so we can treat ourselves to a new Mercedes Benz every other year. So you are damn right we want to protect our nest eggs from thieving Chancellors.
However, for the generation coming through who have seen sweet FA of these opportunities, their priorities may be different.
Politics is cyclical, the Conservative Party is unlikely to be in Government for perpetuity however magnificent Mr Johnson appears.
History is unlikely to be kind to any of our recent Prime Ministers, but in the long run Tony Blair may well be viewed as the most destructive.
It may even be that the cycle is broken. The average age of the population increases with every passing year; if tomorrow's older people have less wealth then they may conclude that the current system doesn't work for them, or conversely they may grow even more determined to cling on to what they already have and bleed the young folks white to make up the difference. Who can say?
But life is funny. Now having to go through a Separation, finding a flat to rent and having to downsize I’m stricken with absolute panic looking at what I may be able to buy when the dust settles. For the first time really I can experience the issue myself.
I think I reside not too far (in fact very close) from Blackrook (from what I’ve pieced together over the course of many comments), and it’s depressing what little housing there is at affordable prices - even for someone like me who earns well above the national average. Without a second income from a partner I’m screwed more or less in my entire constituency. I can’t buy here.
God only knows what it’s like for a first time buyer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTslqcXsFd4
they talk about the history of the debate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fewer_versus_less
It's not nearly as concrete as people say.
For me it's just a "bad" habit.
Southern Strategy of 1860, at least among disunionists, was to try to throw the presidential election to US House of Reps, by denying any Northern candidate - especially Lincoln but also Douglas - an Electoral College majority (157 of 303). Under the Constitution, in such a case the House would chose between the top 3 candidates AND vote by state delegations, each state casting 1 vote (unless deadlocked by internal tie, in which case 0).
Republican landslide in most Northern states that swamped Douglas (and/or Breckinridge) plus narrow wins in IL, CA & OR wrecked this gambit by giving Lincoln 180 EVs versus Breckinrdge 72, Bell (Constitutional Unionist) 39 (from KY, VA & TN) and Douglas 12 (Missouri + some from NJ)
Advertising of unhealthy foods banned online and before 9PM on TV
To compete with Germany, Japan and South Korea, if you kick people out of university fair enough, but the answer is not a modern apprenticeship.
Top level 5 apprentices earn more than most university graduates bar those who went to Russell Group universities
https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/apprentices-earn-more-university-graduates-6597455
You can NOT accuse yours truly of kicking BoJo's dog around!
Labour calls out Wiley
I seem to be in a minority of one, in thinking the Conservatives might get punished for the forthcoming economic armageddon. That might change the dynamic.
LD in 2015 and 2017 then in my view you can be classed as a swing voter
All I will say is that there may be a link between BoJo's new haircut and the fact he is walking tyhe dog by himself.......
Neither is history and Classics pointless. Both our PM and his chief advisor studied these subjects.
There is much to criticise in the poor quality of much British Tertiary education but that is a different issue.
I can't believe we're having this conversation though, you can't seriously think I'm a swing voter. I'm a leftie!
If every Tory who voted Labour when they were 18 was ruled out for life from being a Tory there wouldn't be as many Tories . . .
Anyone, I've never claimed to be a party loyalist. I don't find anything productive in being one, if my party is in the wrong I'd rather distance myself from it than back it. You clearly are the other way around.
All the best to your doggie companion - give the pup an extra pork chop for me!
The Gov't is spot on on this one.
By 65 you are expected to vote Tory anyway
The Tories need to earn my vote, not the other way around. If the Tories depart from offering what I want then I'll vote for someone else if they do. As should anyone rational.
That said, does anyone understand why the government seem so resistant to the idea of people being able to escape quarantine (or at least shorten it substantially) by getting themselves tested?
Of course, there was no real transference of risk to the private sector. The university still administered the halls and was responsible for finding students to fill them.
I made money on one of them and lost on the other, that should concentrate my mind.
Plenty won't inherit before retirement. Plenty, like my 71 year old father-in-law will spend many many years of retirement caring for their own elderly parents.
I don't know a single person of my age who has inherited from their parents.
Cue many to say they have, but it is not common at all in my experience.
If the Tories departed from my principles I'd happily support an equivalent of the Lincoln Project. If they depart from yours what would you do? Change your principles?
Should Labour be supporting it and boycotting Twitter for two days? I'm not really sure what such a thing would achieve? Are they not constitutionally obligated to oppose/scrutinise the Government?
I have strong beliefs and that comes across but they're my beliefs not somebody else's!
Shows a basic, often very, level of attainment and commitment.
That should be what Secondary schools ought to be for.
I have subsequently learned more at the University of Life.