Anecdotal experience from the wild East of London this lunchtime.
Tesco's - I'd say 75% observance of masks in-store but no staff challenging those not wearing them.
Part of me wonders if resistance to mask wearing is cultural - I have a sense in America refusal to wear masks seems to go hand-in-hand with strong religious beliefs or with belief in conspiracy theories around "one world" Government.
I'm also interested in those anti-mask wearers who witter on about their "freedom" and their "rights". This is where I part company with that part of the spectrum - I think Freedom FROM is more important than Freedom TO. Wearing a mask so we can all be free from the virus seems far more important than my right to wear or not wear a mask.
Margaret Thatcher spoke about personal responsibility but I think she always saw that in the context of everyone taking their share of responsibility for the wider community. The problem is after 40 years it has been distorted into a highly individualist creed where responsibility begins and ends with you and perhaps your family and there is no sense of any obligation to a wider grouping.
The mask wearing law is unenforceable (we know that) so it requires that wider sense of collective responsibility.
If masks work then why don;t we all wear them all the time?
And if they don;'t then why wear them at all?
1. In normal circumstances, we don't need to wear them. But in circumstances of vulnerability, we do. That is why healthcare providers wear masks around vulnerable patients in normal times, and why laboratorians working with human pathogens also wear them all the time they are potentially exposed. It is why virus hunter don masks (and other PPE) before entering bat caves.
2. They are not perfect, in that they do not prevent all infection or all transmission, but they work to the extent of reducing overall the rate of transmission. That is good enough, and very cost effective.
Otherwise seems a fair enough set. The only other English contender might be Knott for Dujon, but Dujon was excellent to seam if Knott was better to spin.
Hammond for Lara, yes, I’d agree. It is a good team overall.
Anecdotal experience from the wild East of London this lunchtime.
Tesco's - I'd say 75% observance of masks in-store but no staff challenging those not wearing them.
Part of me wonders if resistance to mask wearing is cultural - I have a sense in America refusal to wear masks seems to go hand-in-hand with strong religious beliefs or with belief in conspiracy theories around "one world" Government.
I'm also interested in those anti-mask wearers who witter on about their "freedom" and their "rights". This is where I part company with that part of the spectrum - I think Freedom FROM is more important than Freedom TO. Wearing a mask so we can all be free from the virus seems far more important than my right to wear or not wear a mask.
Margaret Thatcher spoke about personal responsibility but I think she always saw that in the context of everyone taking their share of responsibility for the wider community. The problem is after 40 years it has been distorted into a highly individualist creed where responsibility begins and ends with you and perhaps your family and there is no sense of any obligation to a wider grouping.
The mask wearing law is unenforceable (we know that) so it requires that wider sense of collective responsibility.
If masks work then why don;t we all wear them all the time?
And if they don;'t then why wear them at all?
Just because something hasn't been done before doesn't mean it isn't effective.
Masks have been around for thousands of years.
But wearing them en masse wasn't even done during the Spanish flu epidemic, was it? It's a pretty weak argument to say something shouldn't be done because it hasn't been done before so it must be ineffective.
Why not turn Isle of Man into permanent party island for Brits? Bring in thousands of sun lamps, make the ferries one-way - problem solved!
I don't think the Isle of Man is part of the UK
Tis within the Queen's realm AND no pesky MP to object. Certainly was NOT a problem in WWII when HMG used IoM as holiday camp for assorted enemy aliens. IF it was good enough for foreign layabouts, surely good enough for British ones!
BUT if not being in UK is deal-breaker, then obvious alternative is Isle of Wight.
Indeed, could also turn Channel Islands, Lewis (and Harris), Orkney, Shetland, etc. into chain of special holiday/interment camps. With Rockall for the true "adventure" tourist.
Now you’re just being Scilly.
After some beer;
Jersey (Just like) you go and Falklands off, you and your Ascension. Canada get a word of sense out of you and mostly your views don't bear Belize.
Don't you Guernsey (Go saying) that India event of any trouble it'll be you, a Guyana, and another guy ana, that'll be there.
Uganda the truth! Or maybe you don't gander it.
...
I'm not just taking my coat off the hook!
Yes, very sarky, but I think you have missed the common thread here. Mull it over and it may come to you.
Why not turn Isle of Man into permanent party island for Brits? Bring in thousands of sun lamps, make the ferries one-way - problem solved!
I don't think the Isle of Man is part of the UK
Tis within the Queen's realm AND no pesky MP to object. Certainly was NOT a problem in WWII when HMG used IoM as holiday camp for assorted enemy aliens. IF it was good enough for foreign layabouts, surely good enough for British ones!
BUT if not being in UK is deal-breaker, then obvious alternative is Isle of Wight.
Indeed, could also turn Channel Islands, Lewis (and Harris), Orkney, Shetland, etc. into chain of special holiday/interment camps. With Rockall for the true "adventure" tourist.
Now you’re just being Scilly.
After some beer;
Jersey (Just like) you go and Falklands off, you and your Ascension. Canada get a word of sense out of you and mostly your views don't bear Belize.
Don't you Guernsey (Go saying) that India event of any trouble it'll be you, a Guyana, and another guy ana, that'll be there.
Uganda the truth! Or maybe you don't gander it.
...
I'm not just taking my coat off the hook!
Yes, very sarky, but I think you have missed the common thread here. Mull it over and it may come to you.
Why not turn Isle of Man into permanent party island for Brits? Bring in thousands of sun lamps, make the ferries one-way - problem solved!
I don't think the Isle of Man is part of the UK
Tis within the Queen's realm AND no pesky MP to object. Certainly was NOT a problem in WWII when HMG used IoM as holiday camp for assorted enemy aliens. IF it was good enough for foreign layabouts, surely good enough for British ones!
BUT if not being in UK is deal-breaker, then obvious alternative is Isle of Wight.
Indeed, could also turn Channel Islands, Lewis (and Harris), Orkney, Shetland, etc. into chain of special holiday/interment camps. With Rockall for the true "adventure" tourist.
Now you’re just being Scilly.
After some beer;
Jersey (Just like) you go and Falklands off, you and your Ascension. Canada get a word of sense out of you and mostly your views don't bear Belize.
Don't you Guernsey (Go saying) that India event of any trouble it'll be you, a Guyana, and another guy ana, that'll be there.
Uganda the truth! Or maybe you don't gander it.
...
I'm not just taking my coat off the hook!
Yes, very sarky, but I think you have missed the common thread here. Mull it over and it may come to you.
These are pollsters with vastly different reputations. The North Carolina poll is deeply ominous for Trump.
Oddly enough, it's the Rasmussen approval poll that would worry me the most if I were a Trump supporter. Having seen his approval numbers improve (response to BLM?) if they start slipping away again it can only be poor for the President and this is Rasmussen so doubly ominous.
Are you getting involved on the Sussex Downs this week? I really fancy CIRCUS MAXIMUS for the Sussex but seven runners puts me off - I thought he was an each way bet to nothing at 6s.
I find it difficult to take Rasmussen seriously but if you do, yes it's a bad one for Donald.
I no longer follow the horses as I once did. Other priorities have taken over. I don't miss it much, although memories of the beautiful course at Goodwood still linger fondly. Thanks for the tip though. I may take an interest.
If anyone wants ‘Corbynites remain utterly fucking deluded’ part 94b, here is an amazing article by Rachel Cousins (Rachel from Swindon as she calls herself) about how wonderful Jeremy Corbyn is and how it’s all the evil media’s fault that people hate him:
I get way when the word traduce features so prominently. It seems to have exploded in popularity in the last 3-4 years.
I think there is a question as to whether Labour, even under the excellent SKS, can be electable as long as moderate centrists (i.e. the extra voters they need to vote for them in order to make the difference) think Labour still allow house room to the authoritarian anti-democratic, anti-Semitism tolerating, UK hating, Hamas supporting left. Removing the whip from Corbyn and co would be an excellent and possibly necessary step in that direction.
If starmer removes the whip from say 10 to 20 mp's isnt that then a further 10 to 20 seats he needs to win in 2024 and I assume many of those former labour members will still stand and even nothing worse split the left vote
Anecdotal experience from the wild East of London this lunchtime.
Tesco's - I'd say 75% observance of masks in-store but no staff challenging those not wearing them.
Part of me wonders if resistance to mask wearing is cultural - I have a sense in America refusal to wear masks seems to go hand-in-hand with strong religious beliefs or with belief in conspiracy theories around "one world" Government.
I'm also interested in those anti-mask wearers who witter on about their "freedom" and their "rights". This is where I part company with that part of the spectrum - I think Freedom FROM is more important than Freedom TO. Wearing a mask so we can all be free from the virus seems far more important than my right to wear or not wear a mask.
Margaret Thatcher spoke about personal responsibility but I think she always saw that in the context of everyone taking their share of responsibility for the wider community. The problem is after 40 years it has been distorted into a highly individualist creed where responsibility begins and ends with you and perhaps your family and there is no sense of any obligation to a wider grouping.
The mask wearing law is unenforceable (we know that) so it requires that wider sense of collective responsibility.
If masks work then why don;t we all wear them all the time?
And if they don;'t then why wear them at all?
Just because something hasn't been done before doesn't mean it isn't effective.
Masks have been around for thousands of years.
But wearing them en masse wasn't even done during the Spanish flu epidemic, was it? It's a pretty weak argument to say something shouldn't be done because it hasn't been done before so it must be ineffective.
Its equally weak to say that trying something new must work because not having it in the past has resulted in failure.
And anyway it has been tried. In Spain. Just recently. Wall to wall mask wearing. Result? cancelled holidays for Brits.
Why not turn Isle of Man into permanent party island for Brits? Bring in thousands of sun lamps, make the ferries one-way - problem solved!
I don't think the Isle of Man is part of the UK
Tis within the Queen's realm AND no pesky MP to object. Certainly was NOT a problem in WWII when HMG used IoM as holiday camp for assorted enemy aliens. IF it was good enough for foreign layabouts, surely good enough for British ones!
BUT if not being in UK is deal-breaker, then obvious alternative is Isle of Wight.
Indeed, could also turn Channel Islands, Lewis (and Harris), Orkney, Shetland, etc. into chain of special holiday/interment camps. With Rockall for the true "adventure" tourist.
Now you’re just being Scilly.
After some beer;
Jersey (Just like) you go and Falklands off, you and your Ascension. Canada get a word of sense out of you and mostly your views don't bear Belize.
Don't you Guernsey (Go saying) that India event of any trouble it'll be you, a Guyana, and another guy ana, that'll be there.
Uganda the truth! Or maybe you don't gander it.
...
I'm not just taking my coat off the hook!
Yes, very sarky, but I think you have missed the common thread here. Mull it over and it may come to you.
Why not turn Isle of Man into permanent party island for Brits? Bring in thousands of sun lamps, make the ferries one-way - problem solved!
I don't think the Isle of Man is part of the UK
Tis within the Queen's realm AND no pesky MP to object. Certainly was NOT a problem in WWII when HMG used IoM as holiday camp for assorted enemy aliens. IF it was good enough for foreign layabouts, surely good enough for British ones!
BUT if not being in UK is deal-breaker, then obvious alternative is Isle of Wight.
Indeed, could also turn Channel Islands, Lewis (and Harris), Orkney, Shetland, etc. into chain of special holiday/interment camps. With Rockall for the true "adventure" tourist.
Now you’re just being Scilly.
After some beer;
Jersey (Just like) you go and Falklands off, you and your Ascension. Canada get a word of sense out of you and mostly your views don't bear Belize.
Don't you Guernsey (Go saying) that India event of any trouble it'll be you, a Guyana, and another guy ana, that'll be there.
Uganda the truth! Or maybe you don't gander it.
...
I'm not just taking my coat off the hook!
Yes, very sarky, but I think you have missed the common thread here. Mull it over and it may come to you.
Anyone going on holiday this year? Even to Scotland??
Would you want to give the Sainted Nicola your ££££. I am intending to drive thro France Belgium and Germany to spend a week with my stepson and his wife. I will have to check on restrictions nearer the time.
I don't go to Scotland on principle. It's nasty there.
Scotland's wonderful apart from parts of Glasgow, some of the people there are from the arse crack of the world.
That's one of the pubs in Glasgow that's started gentrifying right?
I understand they've started putting bog roll in the bogs.
Breaking - (CNN) President Donald Trump's national security adviser, Robert O'Brien, has tested positive for Covid-19, according to an official familiar with what happened.
O'Brien's diagnosis marks the highest-ranking Trump administration official known to have tested positive. It's unclear when O'Brien last met with Trump. Their last public appearance together was over two weeks ago during a visit to US Southern Command in Miami on July 10.
Anecdotal experience from the wild East of London this lunchtime.
Tesco's - I'd say 75% observance of masks in-store but no staff challenging those not wearing them.
Part of me wonders if resistance to mask wearing is cultural - I have a sense in America refusal to wear masks seems to go hand-in-hand with strong religious beliefs or with belief in conspiracy theories around "one world" Government.
I'm also interested in those anti-mask wearers who witter on about their "freedom" and their "rights". This is where I part company with that part of the spectrum - I think Freedom FROM is more important than Freedom TO. Wearing a mask so we can all be free from the virus seems far more important than my right to wear or not wear a mask.
Margaret Thatcher spoke about personal responsibility but I think she always saw that in the context of everyone taking their share of responsibility for the wider community. The problem is after 40 years it has been distorted into a highly individualist creed where responsibility begins and ends with you and perhaps your family and there is no sense of any obligation to a wider grouping.
The mask wearing law is unenforceable (we know that) so it requires that wider sense of collective responsibility.
If masks work then why don;t we all wear them all the time?
And if they don;'t then why wear them at all?
Just because something hasn't been done before doesn't mean it isn't effective.
Masks have been around for thousands of years.
But wearing them en masse wasn't even done during the Spanish flu epidemic, was it? It's a pretty weak argument to say something shouldn't be done because it hasn't been done before so it must be ineffective.
Its equally weak to say that trying something new must work because not having it in the past has resulted in failure.
And anyway it has been tried. In Spain. Just recently. Wall to wall mask wearing. Result? cancelled holidays for Brits.
Who is saying it must work? Oh wait, there's a ton of literature on the topic about the spread of droplets with and without a mask.
The Government offering of Universal Credit and ACAS if your employer decides to fire you isn't going to go down well.
What do you expect the Government to do?
FFS these self-entitled whingers, they went on a holiday knowing the risks. They could have stayed at home like most of the country but they went abroad and now have to quarantine.
What should the Government do here?
I don't expect the Government to do anything - it was clear that things were subject to change..
I only mentioned it for the change in editorial tone...
Anecdotal experience from the wild East of London this lunchtime.
Tesco's - I'd say 75% observance of masks in-store but no staff challenging those not wearing them.
Part of me wonders if resistance to mask wearing is cultural - I have a sense in America refusal to wear masks seems to go hand-in-hand with strong religious beliefs or with belief in conspiracy theories around "one world" Government.
I'm also interested in those anti-mask wearers who witter on about their "freedom" and their "rights". This is where I part company with that part of the spectrum - I think Freedom FROM is more important than Freedom TO. Wearing a mask so we can all be free from the virus seems far more important than my right to wear or not wear a mask.
Margaret Thatcher spoke about personal responsibility but I think she always saw that in the context of everyone taking their share of responsibility for the wider community. The problem is after 40 years it has been distorted into a highly individualist creed where responsibility begins and ends with you and perhaps your family and there is no sense of any obligation to a wider grouping.
The mask wearing law is unenforceable (we know that) so it requires that wider sense of collective responsibility.
If masks work then why don;t we all wear them all the time?
And if they don;'t then why wear them at all?
Just because something hasn't been done before doesn't mean it isn't effective.
Masks have been around for thousands of years.
But wearing them en masse wasn't even done during the Spanish flu epidemic, was it? It's a pretty weak argument to say something shouldn't be done because it hasn't been done before so it must be ineffective.
Pictorial evidence from the period suggests otherwise:
Breaking - (CNN) President Donald Trump's national security adviser, Robert O'Brien, has tested positive for Covid-19, according to an official familiar with what happened.
O'Brien's diagnosis marks the highest-ranking Trump administration official known to have tested positive. It's unclear when O'Brien last met with Trump. Their last public appearance together was over two weeks ago during a visit to US Southern Command in Miami on July 10.
Look on the bright side. At least there’s finally something positive about a Trump official.
A day to curl up with a good whatever you like to curl up with.
How are you mate?
Special good wishes to you CHB
Thanks mate, hope you're doing well too
Yes still on it TY!
Are we allowed to talk about Watford?
You've got some shit owners.
Yes we allowed to mention Watford
It's been coming - the story of the last game was the story of the season. Can't defend, can't take our chances.
An Arsenal supporting friend did enjoy relegating Troy 'Cojones' Deeney.
Maybe Liverpool will sign Troy to see if you can win CL again next season...
You’ve been quiet for a while or have I just missed you?
Hello Nichomar - hope you are doing ok - yes I have been scared off the site by all these hard left Starmeristas and Layla types which are here now!
How are you getting on in Spain?
A few health problems but oncology has carried on through the crisis. I had the experience of being hospitalized at the height of the infections in Alicante which was interesting. Life is close to normal for what we do the only issue is my daughters are keen to see mum and dad but can’t get out here yet. I must admit I don’t see many left of center posters at all on here these days.
Anecdotal experience from the wild East of London this lunchtime.
Tesco's - I'd say 75% observance of masks in-store but no staff challenging those not wearing them.
Part of me wonders if resistance to mask wearing is cultural - I have a sense in America refusal to wear masks seems to go hand-in-hand with strong religious beliefs or with belief in conspiracy theories around "one world" Government.
I'm also interested in those anti-mask wearers who witter on about their "freedom" and their "rights". This is where I part company with that part of the spectrum - I think Freedom FROM is more important than Freedom TO. Wearing a mask so we can all be free from the virus seems far more important than my right to wear or not wear a mask.
Margaret Thatcher spoke about personal responsibility but I think she always saw that in the context of everyone taking their share of responsibility for the wider community. The problem is after 40 years it has been distorted into a highly individualist creed where responsibility begins and ends with you and perhaps your family and there is no sense of any obligation to a wider grouping.
The mask wearing law is unenforceable (we know that) so it requires that wider sense of collective responsibility.
If masks work then why don;t we all wear them all the time?
And if they don;'t then why wear them at all?
Just because something hasn't been done before doesn't mean it isn't effective.
Masks have been around for thousands of years.
But wearing them en masse wasn't even done during the Spanish flu epidemic, was it? It's a pretty weak argument to say something shouldn't be done because it hasn't been done before so it must be ineffective.
Pictorial evidence from the period suggests otherwise:
Why not turn Isle of Man into permanent party island for Brits? Bring in thousands of sun lamps, make the ferries one-way - problem solved!
I don't think the Isle of Man is part of the UK
Tis within the Queen's realm AND no pesky MP to object. Certainly was NOT a problem in WWII when HMG used IoM as holiday camp for assorted enemy aliens. IF it was good enough for foreign layabouts, surely good enough for British ones!
BUT if not being in UK is deal-breaker, then obvious alternative is Isle of Wight.
Indeed, could also turn Channel Islands, Lewis (and Harris), Orkney, Shetland, etc. into chain of special holiday/interment camps. With Rockall for the true "adventure" tourist.
Now you’re just being Scilly.
After some beer;
Jersey (Just like) you go and Falklands off, you and your Ascension. Canada get a word of sense out of you and mostly your views don't bear Belize.
Don't you Guernsey (Go saying) that India event of any trouble it'll be you, a Guyana, and another guy ana, that'll be there.
Uganda the truth! Or maybe you don't gander it.
...
I'm not just taking my coat off the hook!
Yes, very sarky, but I think you have missed the common thread here. Mull it over and it may come to you.
So Starmer has higher net approval ratings in the seats that Labour lost in 2019 than Johnson does?
Yes. Starmer is beating Johnson by quite some margin
I think this comes back to the post-election thoughts - Johnson / Tories have been loaned votes for one election to see if they deliver for the locality. If they don't some will revert to The Lawyer.
I just wrote to our MP suggesting that they should lay out longer term plans in teh budget for replacing asbestos ridden schools now that the CLASP (resilient to subsidence) system is coming to the end of its 70 year life between 2020 and 2040.
Very much a red wall thing - Notts, Derbys, County Durham and some in Herts. In Notts we have about 100 schools with serious asbestos, and all three Secondaries in my town plus many junior schools. And so far only a dozen or so have been dealt with completely. Potentially an issue with comprnsive reach as in this area we are very familiar with industrial diseases.
We'll see - he was very good on the only other issues I have flagged up, which were to prevent panicky London media getting all the parks closed nationally, and people left high and dry by static-caravan sites having to close just after taking the years' fees.
Has it been a nice day? Post-treatment I have been asleep for most of it.
But for Miss @Cyclefree, the blueberry project is proceeding.
A day to curl up with a good whatever you like to curl up with.
How are you mate?
Special good wishes to you CHB
Thanks mate, hope you're doing well too
Yes still on it TY!
Are we allowed to talk about Watford?
You've got some shit owners.
Yes we allowed to mention Watford
It's been coming - the story of the last game was the story of the season. Can't defend, can't take our chances.
An Arsenal supporting friend did enjoy relegating Troy 'Cojones' Deeney.
Maybe Liverpool will sign Troy to see if you can win CL again next season...
You’ve been quiet for a while or have I just missed you?
Hello Nichomar - hope you are doing ok - yes I have been scared off the site by all these hard left Starmeristas and Layla types which are here now!
How are you getting on in Spain?
A few health problems but oncology has carried on through the crisis. I had the experience of being hospitalized at the height of the infections in Alicante which was interesting. Life is close to normal for what we do the only issue is my daughters are keen to see mum and dad but can’t get out here yet. I must admit I don’t see many left of center posters at all on here these days.
Good to see that you came through it almost unscathed, apart from picking up a nasty dose of American spelling.
Why not turn Isle of Man into permanent party island for Brits? Bring in thousands of sun lamps, make the ferries one-way - problem solved!
I don't think the Isle of Man is part of the UK
Tis within the Queen's realm AND no pesky MP to object. Certainly was NOT a problem in WWII when HMG used IoM as holiday camp for assorted enemy aliens. IF it was good enough for foreign layabouts, surely good enough for British ones!
BUT if not being in UK is deal-breaker, then obvious alternative is Isle of Wight.
Indeed, could also turn Channel Islands, Lewis (and Harris), Orkney, Shetland, etc. into chain of special holiday/interment camps. With Rockall for the true "adventure" tourist.
Now you’re just being Scilly.
After some beer;
Jersey (Just like) you go and Falklands off, you and your Ascension. Canada get a word of sense out of you and mostly your views don't bear Belize.
Don't you Guernsey (Go saying) that India event of any trouble it'll be you, a Guyana, and another guy ana, that'll be there.
Uganda the truth! Or maybe you don't gander it.
...
I'm not just taking my coat off the hook!
Yes, very sarky, but I think you have missed the common thread here. Mull it over and it may come to you.
A day to curl up with a good whatever you like to curl up with.
How are you mate?
Special good wishes to you CHB
Thanks mate, hope you're doing well too
Yes still on it TY!
Are we allowed to talk about Watford?
You've got some shit owners.
Yes we allowed to mention Watford
It's been coming - the story of the last game was the story of the season. Can't defend, can't take our chances.
An Arsenal supporting friend did enjoy relegating Troy 'Cojones' Deeney.
Maybe Liverpool will sign Troy to see if you can win CL again next season...
You’ve been quiet for a while or have I just missed you?
Hello Nichomar - hope you are doing ok - yes I have been scared off the site by all these hard left Starmeristas and Layla types which are here now!
How are you getting on in Spain?
A few health problems but oncology has carried on through the crisis. I had the experience of being hospitalized at the height of the infections in Alicante which was interesting. Life is close to normal for what we do the only issue is my daughters are keen to see mum and dad but can’t get out here yet. I must admit I don’t see many left of center posters at all on here these days.
Good to see that you came through it almost unscathed, apart from picking up a nasty dose of American spelling.
At Torrevieja hospital tomorrow so interested to see what precautions in place as they have a few new covid patients For first time in weeks.
Anecdotal experience from the wild East of London this lunchtime.
Tesco's - I'd say 75% observance of masks in-store but no staff challenging those not wearing them.
Part of me wonders if resistance to mask wearing is cultural - I have a sense in America refusal to wear masks seems to go hand-in-hand with strong religious beliefs or with belief in conspiracy theories around "one world" Government.
I'm also interested in those anti-mask wearers who witter on about their "freedom" and their "rights". This is where I part company with that part of the spectrum - I think Freedom FROM is more important than Freedom TO. Wearing a mask so we can all be free from the virus seems far more important than my right to wear or not wear a mask.
Margaret Thatcher spoke about personal responsibility but I think she always saw that in the context of everyone taking their share of responsibility for the wider community. The problem is after 40 years it has been distorted into a highly individualist creed where responsibility begins and ends with you and perhaps your family and there is no sense of any obligation to a wider grouping.
The mask wearing law is unenforceable (we know that) so it requires that wider sense of collective responsibility.
If masks work then why don;t we all wear them all the time?
And if they don;'t then why wear them at all?
Just because something hasn't been done before doesn't mean it isn't effective.
Masks have been around for thousands of years.
But wearing them en masse wasn't even done during the Spanish flu epidemic, was it? It's a pretty weak argument to say something shouldn't be done because it hasn't been done before so it must be ineffective.
Its equally weak to say that trying something new must work because not having it in the past has resulted in failure.
And anyway it has been tried. In Spain. Just recently. Wall to wall mask wearing. Result? cancelled holidays for Brits.
Who is saying it must work? Oh wait, there's a ton of literature on the topic about the spread of droplets with and without a mask.
If masks work then we should wear them all the time, always to prevent the spread of disease then, right?
Except of course that nobody wants that because everybody knows that what prevents disease and keeps us healthy isn;t some wazzock in a mask, but our own immune systems.
And those immune systems have been honed down through the millenia not by idiots preening themselves in masks, but by coming into contact with the earth's diseases. Passed to each other by each other.
More than 40% of our genome is incorporated virus DNA.
A day to curl up with a good whatever you like to curl up with.
How are you mate?
Special good wishes to you CHB
Thanks mate, hope you're doing well too
Yes still on it TY!
Are we allowed to talk about Watford?
You've got some shit owners.
Yes we allowed to mention Watford
It's been coming - the story of the last game was the story of the season. Can't defend, can't take our chances.
An Arsenal supporting friend did enjoy relegating Troy 'Cojones' Deeney.
Maybe Liverpool will sign Troy to see if you can win CL again next season...
You’ve been quiet for a while or have I just missed you?
Hello Nichomar - hope you are doing ok - yes I have been scared off the site by all these hard left Starmeristas and Layla types which are here now!
How are you getting on in Spain?
A few health problems but oncology has carried on through the crisis. I had the experience of being hospitalized at the height of the infections in Alicante which was interesting. Life is close to normal for what we do the only issue is my daughters are keen to see mum and dad but can’t get out here yet. I must admit I don’t see many left of center posters at all on here these days.
OK take it easy and hope everything is sorted soon - not ideal for you with the current quarantine situation.
A day to curl up with a good whatever you like to curl up with.
How are you mate?
Special good wishes to you CHB
Thanks mate, hope you're doing well too
Yes still on it TY!
Are we allowed to talk about Watford?
You've got some shit owners.
Yes we allowed to mention Watford
It's been coming - the story of the last game was the story of the season. Can't defend, can't take our chances.
An Arsenal supporting friend did enjoy relegating Troy 'Cojones' Deeney.
Maybe Liverpool will sign Troy to see if you can win CL again next season...
You’ve been quiet for a while or have I just missed you?
Hello Nichomar - hope you are doing ok - yes I have been scared off the site by all these hard left Starmeristas and Layla types which are here now!
How are you getting on in Spain?
A few health problems but oncology has carried on through the crisis. I had the experience of being hospitalized at the height of the infections in Alicante which was interesting. Life is close to normal for what we do the only issue is my daughters are keen to see mum and dad but can’t get out here yet. I must admit I don’t see many left of center posters at all on here these days.
OK take it easy and hope everything is sorted soon - not ideal for you with the current quarantine situation.
Thanks, it’s difficult at times to know if it’s the temperature 31/32 or the chemo knocking you out but there’s no great pressure to do anything so not to much of a problem.
Otherwise seems a fair enough set. The only other English contender might be Knott for Dujon, but Dujon was excellent to seam if Knott was better to spin.
Botham for Sobers. Botham was a much bigger threat than Sobers as a bowler. If you want Sobers as a batsman, drop Lloyd.
Anyone got any bright ideas as to why it is so many countries on the continent seem to be having a panic moment over the dreaded second wave, yet there's no immediate sign of things going horribly wrong over here? Are we, for some reason, following the likes of Spain and Belgium and just a couple of weeks behind, or is there something that Britain is actually doing right that other countries aren't?
Latest data shows R hovering above 1 and reported cases very slowly increasing. No sign of a surge or second wave - just a slight swell.
Apologies for delayed reply, I've been making dinner... I have noticed the little uptick on your graphs recently, but the estimated R value is only just over 1 and there's no obvious signal that the Plague is taking off again in the other data, apart (possibly) from cases identified by test which can easily be explained away by carpet bombing in the hotspots. I'd be more concerned if the triage calls and hospitalisations started to tick upwards, but last time I looked (which was only yesterday) those indicators still looked fine.
Lots and lots of testing. For once our strategy might actually be paying off.
Is the UK genuinely doing more and better targeting testing than other countries now? I don't know the answer to this
Reading other contributions down thread - and remembering yesterday's discussions about Spain - I do wonder if it's simply a matter of British people, and especially the young, going out and gathering in large groups less, and perhaps also related to the hospitality industry, i.e. a smaller proportion of establishments being open to begin with, and those that have decided to unshutter perhaps taking their Covid precautions more seriously? But that's just a guess of course.
I don’t know what the MOE is on those data given the assumptions involved, but over a long time series it looks like the problem (again) is London.
If London is becoming a problem area again then it is doing so at a truly glacial pace. The helpful case data provided by @Malmesbury in the previous thread show very modest activity in Hackney and naff all anywhere else, and there's nothing of obvious concern on the GLA data dashboard either.
I think that's right. It is relatively low incidence of cases and rising very slowly. With an R of 1.13 (+/-) it would take six weeks to double to 19 cases/100,000. England is currently 14.4/100,000. USA is 186/100,000.
AD WARS -- “Biden takes aim at Trump over coronavirus in new ad blitz courting seniors,” by Fox News’ Paul Steinhauser and Madeleine Rivera: “Biden’s campaign says they’ll spend more than $14.5 million to run TV and digital spots in Arizona, Florida, Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin … And the Biden campaign says it's expanding the ad buy into Nevada … The commercials – shared first with Fox News – target the president over his handling of the coronavirus pandemic.”
A day to curl up with a good whatever you like to curl up with.
How are you mate?
Special good wishes to you CHB
Thanks mate, hope you're doing well too
Yes still on it TY!
Are we allowed to talk about Watford?
You've got some shit owners.
Yes we allowed to mention Watford
It's been coming - the story of the last game was the story of the season. Can't defend, can't take our chances.
An Arsenal supporting friend did enjoy relegating Troy 'Cojones' Deeney.
Maybe Liverpool will sign Troy to see if you can win CL again next season...
You’ve been quiet for a while or have I just missed you?
Hello Nichomar - hope you are doing ok - yes I have been scared off the site by all these hard left Starmeristas and Layla types which are here now!
How are you getting on in Spain?
A few health problems but oncology has carried on through the crisis. I had the experience of being hospitalized at the height of the infections in Alicante which was interesting. Life is close to normal for what we do the only issue is my daughters are keen to see mum and dad but can’t get out here yet. I must admit I don’t see many left of center posters at all on here these days.
OK take it easy and hope everything is sorted soon - not ideal for you with the current quarantine situation.
Oh don't let him get away with it! Clearly no self-respecting nasties will bother with PB folk. Stands to reason in their genetic thinking. Surely flesh-wounds only in this case, and a blindness for the frothing tides of PB leftism.
I recommend a treatment of journalists. A good pint or two of extracted blood should alleviate the fevers.
The Government offering of Universal Credit and ACAS if your employer decides to fire you isn't going to go down well.
What do you expect the Government to do?
FFS these self-entitled whingers, they went on a holiday knowing the risks. They could have stayed at home like most of the country but they went abroad and now have to quarantine.
What should the Government do here?
I don't expect the Government to do anything - it was clear that things were subject to change..
I only mentioned it for the change in editorial tone...
Bad news/complaints makes sells papers . . . or nowadays is clickbait.
People saying they understand the situation and will stay at home because it needs to be done . . . that's not an interesting story.
Anecdotal experience from the wild East of London this lunchtime.
Tesco's - I'd say 75% observance of masks in-store but no staff challenging those not wearing them.
Part of me wonders if resistance to mask wearing is cultural - I have a sense in America refusal to wear masks seems to go hand-in-hand with strong religious beliefs or with belief in conspiracy theories around "one world" Government.
I'm also interested in those anti-mask wearers who witter on about their "freedom" and their "rights". This is where I part company with that part of the spectrum - I think Freedom FROM is more important than Freedom TO. Wearing a mask so we can all be free from the virus seems far more important than my right to wear or not wear a mask.
Margaret Thatcher spoke about personal responsibility but I think she always saw that in the context of everyone taking their share of responsibility for the wider community. The problem is after 40 years it has been distorted into a highly individualist creed where responsibility begins and ends with you and perhaps your family and there is no sense of any obligation to a wider grouping.
The mask wearing law is unenforceable (we know that) so it requires that wider sense of collective responsibility.
FWIW, I've been to the local Tesco and M&S since the mask edict came into force and compliance is 100%, "enforced" by nothing more than a polite lady stood by the door waiting to issue gentle reminders to those who may have been a little absent-minded before setting out to shop. I think Tesco were also handing out masks to the forgetful, though whether they were giving away freebies or selling packets of them I don't know. Aldi might be a little more relaxed about it all - there seemed to be a moment a few weeks ago when they gave up counting people in and out of the store - but I've not been in there for a while so I couldn't really say.
It might just be the case that middle class types wear the masks because they want to be polite and avoid an argument, even if they think they're not much use and/or loathe them.
Yesterday at an Express Tescos roughly 33% were not wearing masks. No attempt to enforce at all.
Otherwise seems a fair enough set. The only other English contender might be Knott for Dujon, but Dujon was excellent to seam if Knott was better to spin.
Botham for Sobers. Botham was a much bigger threat than Sobers as a bowler. If you want Sobers as a batsman, drop Lloyd.
Botham wasn’t particularly effective against the Windies though. Average of 21 with the bat (no centuries) and 35 with the ball.
Sobers by contrast averaged 60 with the bat with 10 centuries and 32 with the ball against England.
Why not turn Isle of Man into permanent party island for Brits? Bring in thousands of sun lamps, make the ferries one-way - problem solved!
I don't think the Isle of Man is part of the UK
Tis within the Queen's realm AND no pesky MP to object. Certainly was NOT a problem in WWII when HMG used IoM as holiday camp for assorted enemy aliens. IF it was good enough for foreign layabouts, surely good enough for British ones!
BUT if not being in UK is deal-breaker, then obvious alternative is Isle of Wight.
Indeed, could also turn Channel Islands, Lewis (and Harris), Orkney, Shetland, etc. into chain of special holiday/interment camps. With Rockall for the true "adventure" tourist.
Now you’re just being Scilly.
After some beer;
Jersey (Just like) you go and Falklands off, you and your Ascension. Canada get a word of sense out of you and mostly your views don't bear Belize.
Don't you Guernsey (Go saying) that India event of any trouble it'll be you, a Guyana, and another guy ana, that'll be there.
Uganda the truth! Or maybe you don't gander it.
...
I'm not just taking my coat off the hook!
Yes, very sarky, but I think you have missed the common thread here. Mull it over and it may come to you.
The Government offering of Universal Credit and ACAS if your employer decides to fire you isn't going to go down well.
What do you expect the Government to do?
FFS these self-entitled whingers, they went on a holiday knowing the risks. They could have stayed at home like most of the country but they went abroad and now have to quarantine.
What should the Government do here?
The top rated comments are in support of the government.
I'm not surprised. There's room for sympathy, but people got unlucky and that's that.
Also quite enjoying the Boris "I'm only 5 foot 10" height hyperbole.
That 10 is measured in 7ths of an inch.
According to Guido, Mr Macron is 5' 6 and a half
I can only but assume that the very fact that he used the words 'at the outside' meant he was exagerrating for fun. Speaking as someone who is 5'7, everyone knows you only add an additional inch when lying about your height.
Why not turn Isle of Man into permanent party island for Brits? Bring in thousands of sun lamps, make the ferries one-way - problem solved!
I don't think the Isle of Man is part of the UK
Tis within the Queen's realm AND no pesky MP to object. Certainly was NOT a problem in WWII when HMG used IoM as holiday camp for assorted enemy aliens. IF it was good enough for foreign layabouts, surely good enough for British ones!
BUT if not being in UK is deal-breaker, then obvious alternative is Isle of Wight.
Indeed, could also turn Channel Islands, Lewis (and Harris), Orkney, Shetland, etc. into chain of special holiday/interment camps. With Rockall for the true "adventure" tourist.
Now you’re just being Scilly.
After some beer;
Jersey (Just like) you go and Falklands off, you and your Ascension. Canada get a word of sense out of you and mostly your views don't bear Belize.
Don't you Guernsey (Go saying) that India event of any trouble it'll be you, a Guyana, and another guy ana, that'll be there.
Uganda the truth! Or maybe you don't gander it.
...
I'm not just taking my coat off the hook!
Yes, very sarky, but I think you have missed the common thread here. Mull it over and it may come to you.
Also quite enjoying the Boris "I'm only 5 foot 10" height hyperbole.
That 10 is measured in 7ths of an inch.
According to Guido, Mr Macron is 5' 6 and a half
I can only but assume that the very fact that he used the words 'at the outside' meant he was exagerrating for fun. Speaking as someone who is 5'7, everyone knows you only add an additional inch when lying about your height.
Otherwise seems a fair enough set. The only other English contender might be Knott for Dujon, but Dujon was excellent to seam if Knott was better to spin.
Botham for Sobers. Botham was a much bigger threat than Sobers as a bowler. If you want Sobers as a batsman, drop Lloyd.
Stokes is now arguably a better bat than Botham. Time will tell, I guess.
Why not turn Isle of Man into permanent party island for Brits? Bring in thousands of sun lamps, make the ferries one-way - problem solved!
I don't think the Isle of Man is part of the UK
Tis within the Queen's realm AND no pesky MP to object. Certainly was NOT a problem in WWII when HMG used IoM as holiday camp for assorted enemy aliens. IF it was good enough for foreign layabouts, surely good enough for British ones!
BUT if not being in UK is deal-breaker, then obvious alternative is Isle of Wight.
Indeed, could also turn Channel Islands, Lewis (and Harris), Orkney, Shetland, etc. into chain of special holiday/interment camps. With Rockall for the true "adventure" tourist.
Now you’re just being Scilly.
After some beer;
Jersey (Just like) you go and Falklands off, you and your Ascension. Canada get a word of sense out of you and mostly your views don't bear Belize.
Don't you Guernsey (Go saying) that India event of any trouble it'll be you, a Guyana, and another guy ana, that'll be there.
Uganda the truth! Or maybe you don't gander it.
...
I'm not just taking my coat off the hook!
Yes, very sarky, but I think you have missed the common thread here. Mull it over and it may come to you.
Also quite enjoying the Boris "I'm only 5 foot 10" height hyperbole.
That 10 is measured in 7ths of an inch.
According to Guido, Mr Macron is 5' 6 and a half
I can only but assume that the very fact that he used the words 'at the outside' meant he was exagerrating for fun. Speaking as someone who is 5'7, everyone knows you only add an additional inch when lying about your height.
One of the strange things about the CV-19 pandemic is that it makes some people - often otherwise sensible and intelligent people - throw up their hands and say "it's all too complicated".
CV-19 is a viral infection of the upper respiratory tract. Yes, the virus has a specific shape - the so-called "crown" or corona - but it is still a viral infection that works by hijacking our cells to produce itself, and spreads itself in exactly the same way as any other respiratory viral infection.
That is, droplets are expelled by people through their mouth and nose. Sometimes those droplets are tiny (so called aerosol transmission). Sometimes those droplets are larger.
The reason we cough and sneeze when we have these kind of infections is because viruses have evolved to encourage the body to have these responses. A virus that makes you cough or sneeze is more likely to spread.
None of this stuff is new.
If you have CV-19, whether you know it or not, then you will be less likely to spread it if you wear a mask. This is because (a) larger droplets will be caught in the mask, (b) smaller ones - if they make it through - will travel less far, and (c) because you are much less likely to transfer droplets with the virus from your mouth to your hand and therefore to other surfaces.
Masks are no panacea, however. Short of a vaccine, there is no silver bullet. Even if worn properly by all, they don't stop 100% of transmission. But they do reduce it.
If you allow nightclubs to reopen when a meaningful number of people have CV-19, then all the mask wearing in shops, won't stop a second wave. Nor does a second wave mean the masks didn't work. It means that there were other vectors of infection.
And the more vectors of infection you allow, the higher R is, and the more people get infected.
Why not turn Isle of Man into permanent party island for Brits? Bring in thousands of sun lamps, make the ferries one-way - problem solved!
I don't think the Isle of Man is part of the UK
Tis within the Queen's realm AND no pesky MP to object. Certainly was NOT a problem in WWII when HMG used IoM as holiday camp for assorted enemy aliens. IF it was good enough for foreign layabouts, surely good enough for British ones!
BUT if not being in UK is deal-breaker, then obvious alternative is Isle of Wight.
Indeed, could also turn Channel Islands, Lewis (and Harris), Orkney, Shetland, etc. into chain of special holiday/interment camps. With Rockall for the true "adventure" tourist.
Now you’re just being Scilly.
After some beer;
Jersey (Just like) you go and Falklands off, you and your Ascension. Canada get a word of sense out of you and mostly your views don't bear Belize.
Don't you Guernsey (Go saying) that India event of any trouble it'll be you, a Guyana, and another guy ana, that'll be there.
Uganda the truth! Or maybe you don't gander it.
...
I'm not just taking my coat off the hook!
Those attempts at puns really go against the Grain.
Why not turn Isle of Man into permanent party island for Brits? Bring in thousands of sun lamps, make the ferries one-way - problem solved!
I don't think the Isle of Man is part of the UK
Tis within the Queen's realm AND no pesky MP to object. Certainly was NOT a problem in WWII when HMG used IoM as holiday camp for assorted enemy aliens. IF it was good enough for foreign layabouts, surely good enough for British ones!
BUT if not being in UK is deal-breaker, then obvious alternative is Isle of Wight.
Indeed, could also turn Channel Islands, Lewis (and Harris), Orkney, Shetland, etc. into chain of special holiday/interment camps. With Rockall for the true "adventure" tourist.
Now you’re just being Scilly.
After some beer;
Jersey (Just like) you go and Falklands off, you and your Ascension. Canada get a word of sense out of you and mostly your views don't bear Belize.
Don't you Guernsey (Go saying) that India event of any trouble it'll be you, a Guyana, and another guy ana, that'll be there.
Uganda the truth! Or maybe you don't gander it.
...
I'm not just taking my coat off the hook!
Yes, very sarky, but I think you have missed the common thread here. Mull it over and it may come to you.
Also quite enjoying the Boris "I'm only 5 foot 10" height hyperbole.
That 10 is measured in 7ths of an inch.
According to Guido, Mr Macron is 5' 6 and a half
I can only but assume that the very fact that he used the words 'at the outside' meant he was exagerrating for fun. Speaking as someone who is 5'7, everyone knows you only add an additional inch when lying about your height.
Also quite enjoying the Boris "I'm only 5 foot 10" height hyperbole.
That 10 is measured in 7ths of an inch.
According to Guido, Mr Macron is 5' 6 and a half
I can only but assume that the very fact that he used the words 'at the outside' meant he was exagerrating for fun. Speaking as someone who is 5'7, everyone knows you only add an additional inch when lying about your height.
Absolute bollox, Isam. Lance Gibbs was miles better than Swann.
And where is Barnes on that list ?
Did Barnes ever play against the West Indies?
Edit - I’m not sure I would agree about Gibbs vs Swann either. Their records as bowlers are roughly comparable in average and strike rate, and although Gibbs had much the better economy rate he played in an era when batsmen were much less attacking. Swann’s would probably have been slightly better had Duncan Fletcher not picked on spite and sycophancy rather than talent and forced him to miss five of his best years.
What Swann undoubtedly was was a far better batsman and fielder.
Also quite enjoying the Boris "I'm only 5 foot 10" height hyperbole.
That 10 is measured in 7ths of an inch.
According to Guido, Mr Macron is 5' 6 and a half
I can only but assume that the very fact that he used the words 'at the outside' meant he was exagerrating for fun. Speaking as someone who is 5'7, everyone knows you only add an additional inch when lying about your height.
I *lost* an inch in the hospital last week, because they assumed the trim on my shoes was the thickness of the soles.
Why not turn Isle of Man into permanent party island for Brits? Bring in thousands of sun lamps, make the ferries one-way - problem solved!
I don't think the Isle of Man is part of the UK
Tis within the Queen's realm AND no pesky MP to object. Certainly was NOT a problem in WWII when HMG used IoM as holiday camp for assorted enemy aliens. IF it was good enough for foreign layabouts, surely good enough for British ones!
BUT if not being in UK is deal-breaker, then obvious alternative is Isle of Wight.
Indeed, could also turn Channel Islands, Lewis (and Harris), Orkney, Shetland, etc. into chain of special holiday/interment camps. With Rockall for the true "adventure" tourist.
Now you’re just being Scilly.
After some beer;
Jersey (Just like) you go and Falklands off, you and your Ascension. Canada get a word of sense out of you and mostly your views don't bear Belize.
Don't you Guernsey (Go saying) that India event of any trouble it'll be you, a Guyana, and another guy ana, that'll be there.
Uganda the truth! Or maybe you don't gander it.
...
I'm not just taking my coat off the hook!
Yes, very sarky, but I think you have missed the common thread here. Mull it over and it may come to you.
"he was exagerrating for fun" Think it obvious that BoJo exaggerates for business AND pleasure. In fact, constantly, continuously, incorrigibly, uncontrollably - forever and always.
(CNN) After weeks of sharp increases, there are some signs that new coronavirus cases in the United States may be plateauing at a high daily rate.
Nationally, the seven-day daily average of new confirmed cases was just under 66,000, according to data from Johns Hopkins University. That is still a startlingly high number of infections, but it's the lowest it has been in the US in 10 days.
The trend can be seen more clearly in new case totals in Arizona, Texas and Florida. In these states, which reopened without effective safety protocols and saw rapid case spread since June, new cases have flattened or slightly decreased recently
A subject dear to British hearts, which will gain massive traction as soon as the 'summer' 'holidays' (both heavily irony laden terms for various reasons) reach their natural end in a few weeks will be 'What on earth is all this going to do to Christmas festivities?' Business has to be geared up months ahead; for most people all sorts of limitations are pretty unthinkable (pubs, families, parties, school things). A cultural nightmare looms. Though on the bright side it will provide a useful expedient for getting out of the various bits of that annual treadmill one could manage without.
And does Santa wear a visor, a face mask or what? Does he have to observe social distancing once down the chimney? Is it safe to leave sherry? Does he need sanitizer?
FTP SeaShantyIrish2 said: ' OT - Think this poll shows something similar to US post-2016, namely that voters who were once part of the Democratic working class base but who defected to Trumpsky are NOT likely to desert him anytime soon. Or at least NOT among the mostly likely.
Think this is part of tipping-point psychology. When voters change their basic voting intention away from a traditional allegiance, in a way that evidence (polling, demographics, electoral trends) shows has been building for some time - well, they simply are NOT going to switch back due to some bumps, or even humongous potholes - down the road they've recently chosen.'
But a lot of Republicans voted for LBJ in 1964 yet reverted to supporting Nixon in 1968 and 1972.Many Reagan Democrats voted for Clinton in 1992 and 1996.In the UK many Tories who voted Labour in 1966 were Tory voters again in 1970.Former Tories who switched to Labour in 1997 and 2001 have generally long returned to their original home.I personally know several people who voted for Thatcher in 1979 but never voted Tory again.
Republicanism and Trumpism are not the same thing and it is highly questionable how much overlap there is.
I suspect a lot of traditional Republicans will not support Trump this time round even if they did last time. The prospect of four years of Biden would not worry them as much as another four years of Trump.
Unless there is some dramatic development over the next 100 days, Joe is going to walk it.
But Trump is out performing the down ticket races in the main.
Otherwise seems a fair enough set. The only other English contender might be Knott for Dujon, but Dujon was excellent to seam if Knott was better to spin.
Botham for Sobers. Botham was a much bigger threat than Sobers as a bowler. If you want Sobers as a batsman, drop Lloyd.
Stokes is now arguably a better bat than Botham. Time will tell, I guess.
I don’t think there’s any ‘arguably’ about that. Stokes over the last two years has batted far better than Botham ever did. Even in his heyday, Botham tended to be a boom or bust batsman. He would never have averaged over 50 for a prolonged period as Stokes has since 2018.
I don’t think however Stokes will ever begin to rival Botham as a bowler.
One of the strange things about the CV-19 pandemic is that it makes some people - often otherwise sensible and intelligent people - throw up their hands and say "it's all too complicated".
CV-19 is a viral infection of the upper respiratory tract. Yes, the virus has a specific shape - the so-called "crown" or corona - but it is still a viral infection that works by hijacking our cells to produce itself, and spreads itself in exactly the same way as any other respiratory viral infection.
That is, droplets are expelled by people through their mouth and nose. Sometimes those droplets are tiny (so called aerosol transmission). Sometimes those droplets are larger.
The reason we cough and sneeze when we have these kind of infections is because viruses have evolved to encourage the body to have these responses. A virus that makes you cough or sneeze is more likely to spread.
None of this stuff is new.
If you have CV-19, whether you know it or not, then you will be less likely to spread it if you wear a mask. This is because (a) larger droplets will be caught in the mask, (b) smaller ones - if they make it through - will travel less far, and (c) because you are much less likely to transfer droplets with the virus from your mouth to your hand and therefore to other surfaces.
Masks are no panacea, however. Short of a vaccine, there is no silver bullet. Even if worn properly by all, they don't stop 100% of transmission. But they do reduce it.
If you allow nightclubs to reopen when a meaningful number of people have CV-19, then all the mask wearing in shops, won't stop a second wave. Nor does a second wave mean the masks didn't work. It means that there were other vectors of infection.
And the more vectors of infection you allow, the higher R is, and the more people get infected.
If what you are saying isn;t new and it isn;t difficult then why come the recommendations and laws are only here now and not at the beginning of the pandemic or even the middle of the pandemic?
Why is the science settled now when it wasn't a month ago? why wasn;t it settled when flu swept through Britain last winter and every winter since the dawn of time?
And why are draconian mask wearing countries like Germany and Spain seeing second waves, to the extent we are preventing travel?
The evidence simply does not support your assertions, much though you would love them to be true.
Anyone got any bright ideas as to why it is so many countries on the continent seem to be having a panic moment over the dreaded second wave, yet there's no immediate sign of things going horribly wrong over here? Are we, for some reason, following the likes of Spain and Belgium and just a couple of weeks behind, or is there something that Britain is actually doing right that other countries aren't?
Latest data shows R hovering above 1 and reported cases very slowly increasing. No sign of a surge or second wave - just a slight swell.
Apologies for delayed reply, I've been making dinner... I have noticed the little uptick on your graphs recently, but the estimated R value is only just over 1 and there's no obvious signal that the Plague is taking off again in the other data, apart (possibly) from cases identified by test which can easily be explained away by carpet bombing in the hotspots. I'd be more concerned if the triage calls and hospitalisations started to tick upwards, but last time I looked (which was only yesterday) those indicators still looked fine.
Lots and lots of testing. For once our strategy might actually be paying off.
Is the UK genuinely doing more and better targeting testing than other countries now? I don't know the answer to this
Reading other contributions down thread - and remembering yesterday's discussions about Spain - I do wonder if it's simply a matter of British people, and especially the young, going out and gathering in large groups less, and perhaps also related to the hospitality industry, i.e. a smaller proportion of establishments being open to begin with, and those that have decided to unshutter perhaps taking their Covid precautions more seriously? But that's just a guess of course.
I don’t know what the MOE is on those data given the assumptions involved, but over a long time series it looks like the problem (again) is London.
If London is becoming a problem area again then it is doing so at a truly glacial pace. The helpful case data provided by @Malmesbury in the previous thread show very modest activity in Hackney and naff all anywhere else, and there's nothing of obvious concern on the GLA data dashboard either.
I think that's right. It is relatively low incidence of cases and rising very slowly. With an R of 1.13 (+/-) it would take six weeks to double to 19 cases/100,000. England is currently 14.4/100,000. USA is 186/100,000.
All cases in London - I haven't bothered to sort by prevalence -
I listened to a bit of Radio 4 tonight. This news story about the disproportionate number of BAME people fined for breaking covid-19 restrictions was featured on a couple of bulletins: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52905787
The essence of the story delivered was that BAME people had been unfairly targeted by police, evidently due to racism.
I find it disturbing to say the least that the automatic assumption from our state broadcaster is that this outcome was due to the racism of our police service, not that, for whatever reason, failing to follow lockdown guidance was more frequent proportionately amongst BAME individuals than white ones, leading to more fines.
The word 'overpoliced' was used in the report. It's a rather depressing word, given that, if widely adopted, crime statistics amongst individuals from certain communities become 'overpolicing' statistics, and the police are berated simply for doing their job. It is the worst type of sticking plaster solution, and it stimulates criminality where none existed before. It is immensely damaging to those communities it is aimed at placating, and their neighbourhoods.
In fact, on checking, Swann’s record against the Windies was much more impressive than Gibbs’ for the Windies against England. 32 wickets at 26 with a SR of 57 in 8 tests, against Gibbs’ 100 at 29 SR 88 in 26.
But - we should remember that in the matches Swann played, they had in the first series just four decent batsmen - Gayle, Sarwan, Chanderpaul and Nash - and in the second series Marlon Samuels and ten walking wickets.
US Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi just delivered their eulogies.
Last remains are at the exact center of Capitol Rotunda, under the top of the Capitol Dome. Mourners are even spaced throughout the Rotunda, which along with the black masks makes the memorial service even more somber and impressive.
Feel sadness for his family and close friends. Feel nothing but great joy, for my country and the entire world, that we were blessed to have a person of such faith, hope and charity among us. This man of peace - rest in peace.
Assuming the old Coronavirus is still a thing there is going to be huge vote by mail this election.
And the evidence from state elections is that Dems vote by mail numbers a hugely bigley.
And because Americans are so fucking incompetent at counting votes we could easily see multiple states "called" for Trump only for the postal vote to swing it for Biden weeks later.
If anyone wants ‘Corbynites remain utterly fucking deluded’ part 94b, here is an amazing article by Rachel Cousins (Rachel from Swindon as she calls herself) about how wonderful Jeremy Corbyn is and how it’s all the evil media’s fault that people hate him:
I get way when the word traduce features so prominently. It seems to have exploded in popularity in the last 3-4 years.
I think there is a question as to whether Labour, even under the excellent SKS, can be electable as long as moderate centrists (i.e. the extra voters they need to vote for them in order to make the difference) think Labour still allow house room to the authoritarian anti-democratic, anti-Semitism tolerating, UK hating, Hamas supporting left. Removing the whip from Corbyn and co would be an excellent and possibly necessary step in that direction.
If starmer removes the whip from say 10 to 20 mp's isnt that then a further 10 to 20 seats he needs to win in 2024 and I assume many of those former labour members will still stand and even nothing worse split the left vote
Yes. SKS is going to need real political courage and take risks. His two greatest threats (even though opportunities abound once there are 3 m unemployed and Brexit proves a long game at best) are the anti-democratic, UK hating left and the Scottish problem.
Lots of people would vote for SKS but would not vote for a party that contains racists, Jew baiters, supporters of Russia, China and Hamas, apologists for totalitarians and advocates of street violence. If the Tories had their right-fascist equivalents in parliament Labour would soon draw our attention to it. Purging this is essential.
The Scottish problem is of course more subtle. How can he get centrist unionists to support him if his only real route to power with a majority is in bed with nationalist dinosaurs? The closer he seems to winning, the stronger is the magnetic attraction away from that outcome for the centrist floating voter.
A subject dear to British hearts, which will gain massive traction as soon as the 'summer' 'holidays' (both heavily irony laden terms for various reasons) reach their natural end in a few weeks will be 'What on earth is all this going to do to Christmas festivities?' Business has to be geared up months ahead; for most people all sorts of limitations are pretty unthinkable (pubs, families, parties, school things). A cultural nightmare looms. Though on the bright side it will provide a useful expedient for getting out of the various bits of that annual treadmill one could manage without.
And does Santa wear a visor, a face mask or what? Does he have to observe social distancing once down the chimney? Is it safe to leave sherry? Does he need sanitizer?
Where exactly are we with these social bubble thingies? Is Santa not allowed to visit anybody's home, or only one other household, or do we think he really oughtn't to be here, there and everywhere regardless on account of being in a vulnerable age group (being 1,750 years old?)
Of course, it's all academic if they have a Covid spike in Lappland and it gets added to the quarantine list.
Otherwise seems a fair enough set. The only other English contender might be Knott for Dujon, but Dujon was excellent to seam if Knott was better to spin.
Botham for Sobers. Botham was a much bigger threat than Sobers as a bowler. If you want Sobers as a batsman, drop Lloyd.
Botham wasn’t particularly effective against the Windies though. Average of 21 with the bat (no centuries) and 35 with the ball.
Sobers by contrast averaged 60 with the bat with 10 centuries and 32 with the ball against England.
The all-time Windies/England XI is to play the other nations, not an all-time Windies/England Second XI.
NYT - G.O.P. Seeks to Cut $600 Weekly Jobless Aid by Two-Thirds, Officials Say
The proposal to lower the benefits to $200 [£155] a week, part of the Republicans’ $1 trillion virus relief package, will likely be bitterly contested.
A subject dear to British hearts, which will gain massive traction as soon as the 'summer' 'holidays' (both heavily irony laden terms for various reasons) reach their natural end in a few weeks will be 'What on earth is all this going to do to Christmas festivities?' Business has to be geared up months ahead; for most people all sorts of limitations are pretty unthinkable (pubs, families, parties, school things). A cultural nightmare looms. Though on the bright side it will provide a useful expedient for getting out of the various bits of that annual treadmill one could manage without.
And does Santa wear a visor, a face mask or what? Does he have to observe social distancing once down the chimney? Is it safe to leave sherry? Does he need sanitizer?
Where exactly are we with these social bubble thingies? Is Santa not allowed to visit anybody's home, or only one other household, or do we think he really oughtn't to be here, there and everywhere regardless on account of being in a vulnerable age group (being 1,750 years old?)
Of course, it's all academic if they have a Covid spike in Lappland and it gets added to the quarantine list.
I cannot see any outcome except that these issues are going to be gigantic. In nurseries and infant schools up and down the land and right down to the corridors of power the questions Christmas raises is going to be the hot topic.
One of the strange things about the CV-19 pandemic is that it makes some people - often otherwise sensible and intelligent people - throw up their hands and say "it's all too complicated".
CV-19 is a viral infection of the upper respiratory tract. Yes, the virus has a specific shape - the so-called "crown" or corona - but it is still a viral infection that works by hijacking our cells to produce itself, and spreads itself in exactly the same way as any other respiratory viral infection.
That is, droplets are expelled by people through their mouth and nose. Sometimes those droplets are tiny (so called aerosol transmission). Sometimes those droplets are larger.
The reason we cough and sneeze when we have these kind of infections is because viruses have evolved to encourage the body to have these responses. A virus that makes you cough or sneeze is more likely to spread.
None of this stuff is new.
If you have CV-19, whether you know it or not, then you will be less likely to spread it if you wear a mask. This is because (a) larger droplets will be caught in the mask, (b) smaller ones - if they make it through - will travel less far, and (c) because you are much less likely to transfer droplets with the virus from your mouth to your hand and therefore to other surfaces.
Masks are no panacea, however. Short of a vaccine, there is no silver bullet. Even if worn properly by all, they don't stop 100% of transmission. But they do reduce it.
If you allow nightclubs to reopen when a meaningful number of people have CV-19, then all the mask wearing in shops, won't stop a second wave. Nor does a second wave mean the masks didn't work. It means that there were other vectors of infection.
And the more vectors of infection you allow, the higher R is, and the more people get infected.
If what you are saying isn;t new and it isn;t difficult then why come the recommendations and laws are only here now and not at the beginning of the pandemic or even the middle of the pandemic?
Why is the science settled now when it wasn't a month ago? why wasn;t it settled when flu swept through Britain last winter and every winter since the dawn of time?
And why are draconian mask wearing countries like Germany and Spain seeing second waves, to the extent we are preventing travel?
The evidence simply does not support your assertions, much though you would love them to be true.
Assuming the old Coronavirus is still a thing there is going to be huge vote by mail this election.
And the evidence from state elections is that Dems vote by mail numbers a hugely bigley.
And because Americans are so fucking incompetent at counting votes we could easily see multiple states "called" for Trump only for the postal vote to swing it for Biden weeks later.
It is a nightmare scenario
There is much truth to what you say, but - like BoJOo - methinks (based on my own experience observing elections in USA) you are exaggerating.
For one thing, AP & networks (even FOX) are going to be VERY cautious in "calling" states when as-yet-uncounted votes could upset somebody's apple cart.
Yes, there will be delays. But unlike in say 2000 these are going to be predicted AND expected.
Anyway, my guess is that the result on November 4 will NOT be all that close. Even if there are still votes that could "theoretically" change the outcome in number of states.
Note that AP: waited for ten days or so before calling US Rep. Eliot Engle the loser in his NY US congressional Democratic primary race. BUT was still obvious that he'd lost.
One of the strange things about the CV-19 pandemic is that it makes some people - often otherwise sensible and intelligent people - throw up their hands and say "it's all too complicated".
CV-19 is a viral infection of the upper respiratory tract. Yes, the virus has a specific shape - the so-called "crown" or corona - but it is still a viral infection that works by hijacking our cells to produce itself, and spreads itself in exactly the same way as any other respiratory viral infection.
That is, droplets are expelled by people through their mouth and nose. Sometimes those droplets are tiny (so called aerosol transmission). Sometimes those droplets are larger.
The reason we cough and sneeze when we have these kind of infections is because viruses have evolved to encourage the body to have these responses. A virus that makes you cough or sneeze is more likely to spread.
None of this stuff is new.
If you have CV-19, whether you know it or not, then you will be less likely to spread it if you wear a mask. This is because (a) larger droplets will be caught in the mask, (b) smaller ones - if they make it through - will travel less far, and (c) because you are much less likely to transfer droplets with the virus from your mouth to your hand and therefore to other surfaces.
Masks are no panacea, however. Short of a vaccine, there is no silver bullet. Even if worn properly by all, they don't stop 100% of transmission. But they do reduce it.
If you allow nightclubs to reopen when a meaningful number of people have CV-19, then all the mask wearing in shops, won't stop a second wave. Nor does a second wave mean the masks didn't work. It means that there were other vectors of infection.
And the more vectors of infection you allow, the higher R is, and the more people get infected.
If what you are saying isn;t new and it isn;t difficult then why come the recommendations and laws are only here now and not at the beginning of the pandemic or even the middle of the pandemic?
Why is the science settled now when it wasn't a month ago? why wasn;t it settled when flu swept through Britain last winter and every winter since the dawn of time?
And why are draconian mask wearing countries like Germany and Spain seeing second waves, to the extent we are preventing travel?
The evidence simply does not support your assertions, much though you would love them to be true.
They just aren't.
You are a classic example of a person driven mad.
There are two problems here: (1) there is a very large time gap between action and effect, and (2) things don't simply happen singly.
If you make a change - say opening pubs - in a country with a very low background incidence, then it might take a month before it has any impact on case numbers. And this happens because (1) when you start from a small number, then it takes a while before anyone sees anything, and (2) there's a fairly long time between infection and diagnosis. (And this is made worse by the fact that people are most infectious before they record feeling rubbish.)
To see what is truly mask wearing, and what is not, you need to control for other factors. The reality is that it is never the case that a country just introduces masks and does nothing else. Spain and German, for example, also re-opened large parts of their economies.
If you want to see countries that opened their economies without masks, and what happened there, look at Israel or South Africa. Both of which has seen far worse second peaks than Germany or Spain.
FTP SeaShantyIrish2 said: ' OT - Think this poll shows something similar to US post-2016, namely that voters who were once part of the Democratic working class base but who defected to Trumpsky are NOT likely to desert him anytime soon. Or at least NOT among the mostly likely.
Think this is part of tipping-point psychology. When voters change their basic voting intention away from a traditional allegiance, in a way that evidence (polling, demographics, electoral trends) shows has been building for some time - well, they simply are NOT going to switch back due to some bumps, or even humongous potholes - down the road they've recently chosen.'
But a lot of Republicans voted for LBJ in 1964 yet reverted to supporting Nixon in 1968 and 1972.Many Reagan Democrats voted for Clinton in 1992 and 1996.In the UK many Tories who voted Labour in 1966 were Tory voters again in 1970.Former Tories who switched to Labour in 1997 and 2001 have generally long returned to their original home.I personally know several people who voted for Thatcher in 1979 but never voted Tory again.
Republicanism and Trumpism are not the same thing and it is highly questionable how much overlap there is.
I suspect a lot of traditional Republicans will not support Trump this time round even if they did last time. The prospect of four years of Biden would not worry them as much as another four years of Trump.
Unless there is some dramatic development over the next 100 days, Joe is going to walk it.
But Trump is out performing the down ticket races in the main.
Comments
2. They are not perfect, in that they do not prevent all infection or all transmission, but they work to the extent of reducing overall the rate of transmission. That is good enough, and very cost effective.
What a specious comparison that is.
His throat needs a week off.
How are you getting on in Spain?
I no longer follow the horses as I once did. Other priorities have taken over. I don't miss it much, although memories of the beautiful course at Goodwood still linger fondly. Thanks for the tip though. I may take an interest.
And anyway it has been tried. In Spain. Just recently. Wall to wall mask wearing. Result? cancelled holidays for Brits.
And regardless of which Wiay you think I meant
O'Brien's diagnosis marks the highest-ranking Trump administration official known to have tested positive. It's unclear when O'Brien last met with Trump. Their last public appearance together was over two weeks ago during a visit to US Southern Command in Miami on July 10.
I only mentioned it for the change in editorial tone...
https://www.history.com/news/1918-spanish-flu-mask-wearing-resistance
I just wrote to our MP suggesting that they should lay out longer term plans in teh budget for replacing asbestos ridden schools now that the CLASP (resilient to subsidence) system is coming to the end of its 70 year life between 2020 and 2040.
Very much a red wall thing - Notts, Derbys, County Durham and some in Herts. In Notts we have about 100 schools with serious asbestos, and all three Secondaries in my town plus many junior schools. And so far only a dozen or so have been dealt with completely. Potentially an issue with comprnsive reach as in this area we are very familiar with industrial diseases.
We'll see - he was very good on the only other issues I have flagged up, which were to prevent panicky London media getting all the parks closed nationally, and people left high and dry by static-caravan sites having to close just after taking the years' fees.
Has it been a nice day? Post-treatment I have been asleep for most of it.
But for Miss @Cyclefree, the blueberry project is proceeding.
Except of course that nobody wants that because everybody knows that what prevents disease and keeps us healthy isn;t some wazzock in a mask, but our own immune systems.
And those immune systems have been honed down through the millenia not by idiots preening themselves in masks, but by coming into contact with the earth's diseases. Passed to each other by each other.
More than 40% of our genome is incorporated virus DNA.
With an R of 1.13 (+/-) it would take six weeks to double to 19 cases/100,000.
England is currently 14.4/100,000. USA is 186/100,000.
Oh for a joke shop rose...
AD WARS -- “Biden takes aim at Trump over coronavirus in new ad blitz courting seniors,” by Fox News’ Paul Steinhauser and Madeleine Rivera: “Biden’s campaign says they’ll spend more than $14.5 million to run TV and digital spots in Arizona, Florida, Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin … And the Biden campaign says it's expanding the ad buy into Nevada … The commercials – shared first with Fox News – target the president over his handling of the coronavirus pandemic.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxT0IFdaaQc&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ex_yXPnXJU&feature=youtu.be
I recommend a treatment of journalists. A good pint or two of extracted blood should alleviate the fevers.
Mike Smithson is 496.
That 10 is measured in 7ths of an inch.
According to Guido, Mr Macron is 5' 6 and a half
People saying they understand the situation and will stay at home because it needs to be done . . . that's not an interesting story.
Sobers by contrast averaged 60 with the bat with 10 centuries and 32 with the ball against England.
Biden made a mistake and fessed up. Like a man. Trumpsky? Not so much.
AND take off whatever it is you've got on top of your head!
CV-19 is a viral infection of the upper respiratory tract. Yes, the virus has a specific shape - the so-called "crown" or corona - but it is still a viral infection that works by hijacking our cells to produce itself, and spreads itself in exactly the same way as any other respiratory viral infection.
That is, droplets are expelled by people through their mouth and nose. Sometimes those droplets are tiny (so called aerosol transmission). Sometimes those droplets are larger.
The reason we cough and sneeze when we have these kind of infections is because viruses have evolved to encourage the body to have these responses. A virus that makes you cough or sneeze is more likely to spread.
None of this stuff is new.
If you have CV-19, whether you know it or not, then you will be less likely to spread it if you wear a mask. This is because (a) larger droplets will be caught in the mask, (b) smaller ones - if they make it through - will travel less far, and (c) because you are much less likely to transfer droplets with the virus from your mouth to your hand and therefore to other surfaces.
Masks are no panacea, however. Short of a vaccine, there is no silver bullet. Even if worn properly by all, they don't stop 100% of transmission. But they do reduce it.
If you allow nightclubs to reopen when a meaningful number of people have CV-19, then all the mask wearing in shops, won't stop a second wave. Nor does a second wave mean the masks didn't work. It means that there were other vectors of infection.
And the more vectors of infection you allow, the higher R is, and the more people get infected.
You've had Shalott.
Edit - I’m not sure I would agree about Gibbs vs Swann either. Their records as bowlers are roughly comparable in average and strike rate, and although Gibbs had much the better economy rate he played in an era when batsmen were much less attacking. Swann’s would probably have been slightly better had Duncan Fletcher not picked on spite and sycophancy rather than talent and forced him to miss five of his best years.
What Swann undoubtedly was was a far better batsman and fielder.
But still.
But then I'm 5'11". *Polishes nails*
Nationally, the seven-day daily average of new confirmed cases was just under 66,000, according to data from Johns Hopkins University. That is still a startlingly high number of infections, but it's the lowest it has been in the US in 10 days.
The trend can be seen more clearly in new case totals in Arizona, Texas and Florida. In these states, which reopened without effective safety protocols and saw rapid case spread since June, new cases have flattened or slightly decreased recently
MI6 officers have been accused of attempting to interfere in a major legal battle over crimes linked to intelligence agencies.
Documents reveal officers sought to prevent documents being provided to one of the country's top judges.
The agency has since apologised - but critics say it was an attempt to put pressure on the judge and his team.
On Monday, the judge said MI6 had acknowledged that nothing like the incident should ever happen again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53559291
And does Santa wear a visor, a face mask or what? Does he have to observe social distancing once down the chimney? Is it safe to leave sherry? Does he need sanitizer?
'People don't want to fly': Covid-19 reawakens Europe's sleeper trains
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/covid-19-reawakens-europe-sleeper-trains
I don’t think however Stokes will ever begin to rival Botham as a bowler.
Why is the science settled now when it wasn't a month ago? why wasn;t it settled when flu swept through Britain last winter and every winter since the dawn of time?
And why are draconian mask wearing countries like Germany and Spain seeing second waves, to the extent we are preventing travel?
The evidence simply does not support your assertions, much though you would love them to be true.
They just aren't.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52905787
The essence of the story delivered was that BAME people had been unfairly targeted by police, evidently due to racism.
I find it disturbing to say the least that the automatic assumption from our state broadcaster is that this outcome was due to the racism of our police service, not that, for whatever reason, failing to follow lockdown guidance was more frequent proportionately amongst BAME individuals than white ones, leading to more fines.
The word 'overpoliced' was used in the report. It's a rather depressing word, given that, if widely adopted, crime statistics amongst individuals from certain communities become 'overpolicing' statistics, and the police are berated simply for doing their job. It is the worst type of sticking plaster solution, and it stimulates criminality where none existed before. It is immensely damaging to those communities it is aimed at placating, and their neighbourhoods.
But - we should remember that in the matches Swann played, they had in the first series just four decent batsmen - Gayle, Sarwan, Chanderpaul and Nash - and in the second series Marlon Samuels and ten walking wickets.
And the evidence from state elections is that Dems vote by mail numbers a hugely bigley.
And because Americans are so fucking incompetent at counting votes we could easily see multiple states "called" for Trump only for the postal vote to swing it for Biden weeks later.
It is a nightmare scenario
Lots of people would vote for SKS but would not vote for a party that contains racists, Jew baiters, supporters of Russia, China and Hamas, apologists for totalitarians and advocates of street violence. If the Tories had their right-fascist equivalents in parliament Labour would soon draw our attention to it. Purging this is essential.
The Scottish problem is of course more subtle. How can he get centrist unionists to support him if his only real route to power with a majority is in bed with nationalist dinosaurs? The closer he seems to winning, the stronger is the magnetic attraction away from that outcome for the centrist floating voter.
Of course, it's all academic if they have a Covid spike in Lappland and it gets added to the quarantine list.
The proposal to lower the benefits to $200 [£155] a week, part of the Republicans’ $1 trillion virus relief package, will likely be bitterly contested.
For one thing, AP & networks (even FOX) are going to be VERY cautious in "calling" states when as-yet-uncounted votes could upset somebody's apple cart.
Yes, there will be delays. But unlike in say 2000 these are going to be predicted AND expected.
Anyway, my guess is that the result on November 4 will NOT be all that close. Even if there are still votes that could "theoretically" change the outcome in number of states.
Note that AP: waited for ten days or so before calling US Rep. Eliot Engle the loser in his NY US congressional Democratic primary race. BUT was still obvious that he'd lost.
There are two problems here: (1) there is a very large time gap between action and effect, and (2) things don't simply happen singly.
If you make a change - say opening pubs - in a country with a very low background incidence, then it might take a month before it has any impact on case numbers. And this happens because (1) when you start from a small number, then it takes a while before anyone sees anything, and (2) there's a fairly long time between infection and diagnosis. (And this is made worse by the fact that people are most infectious before they record feeling rubbish.)
To see what is truly mask wearing, and what is not, you need to control for other factors. The reality is that it is never the case that a country just introduces masks and does nothing else. Spain and German, for example, also re-opened large parts of their economies.
If you want to see countries that opened their economies without masks, and what happened there, look at Israel or South Africa. Both of which has seen far worse second peaks than Germany or Spain.
Furthermore, the science is broadly settled now. There have been a lot of peer reviewed pieces - just look here and you can read them https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/duration-isolation.html