Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As we head into August the impact on holidays becomes the big

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited July 28 in General
imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As we head into August the impact on holidays becomes the big pandemic story

Today’s front pages give a good representation of the main pandemic stories and what the papers think are the issues most likely to impact on their readers.

Read the full story here

«13456711

Comments

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 6,454
    "New Zealand suspends Hong Kong extradition treaty"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53562437
  • felixfelix Posts: 10,710
    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 27,168
    As so often, Jenkins nails it. From the start the government has been in panic mode, and the whole story of the virus crisis in the UK has been dither and indecision followed by overreaction followed by more dither and often as not then a u-turn.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 3,123
    It's not panic mode. I'm grateful that the Gov't this time are acting relatively swiftly amidst a sharp rise in European cases.

    It's inconvenient but a lot less inconvenient than having an intubation tube rammed down your esophagus for 3 weeks.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 3,123
    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 27,168

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 14,546
    IanB2 said:

    As so often, Jenkins nails it. From the start the government has been in panic mode, and the whole story of the virus crisis in the UK has been dither and indecision followed by overreaction followed by more dither and often as not then a u-turn.

    Has it? I wish the government had gone into panic mode at the beginning of March (or earlier). And I like Jenkins, but that paragraph could easily have been written by Peter Hitchens.

    I think the press have misjudged this badly. For once the government has made the right call and hopefully done it soon enough.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 3,123
    IanB2 said:

    As so often, Jenkins nails it. From the start the government has been in panic mode, and the whole story of the virus crisis in the UK has been dither and indecision followed by overreaction followed by more dither and often as not then a u-turn.

    No that's not the 'whole' story. That's cheap and careless.

    They did act too slowly but more recently they have improved. The mistake is not acting severely enough.

    Face masks should be mandatory in all public places with on the spot fines and stricter measures for persistent law breakers. I could go on. We have been too slack rather than overreacting.

    The virus is coming back with a vengeance and people whingeing will be made to look foolish.

    Yes it's tough. But it's better than dying.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 60,345
    Well I'm glad these headlines are out. Good on the government taking the virus seriously
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 23,049
    Interesting, and encouraging news from Pfizer and their German partner.

    One of their vaccines (partly because their vaccine tech is quickest and cheaper to develop than conventional vaccines, they have more than one in the clinic) seems to work very well in older people - producing a better immune response than the disease itself does in those who recover.





  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 3,123
    tlg86 said:

    IanB2 said:

    As so often, Jenkins nails it. From the start the government has been in panic mode, and the whole story of the virus crisis in the UK has been dither and indecision followed by overreaction followed by more dither and often as not then a u-turn.


    I think the press have misjudged this badly. For once the government has made the right call and hopefully done it soon enough.
    Absolutely
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 23,049
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 23,049
    Notable drop in the number of flu cases in Australia.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 31,859
    Scott_xP said:
    The problem with "state aid" is that it rapidly ends up going from its stated aims (improving the competitiveness of British firms, ensuring that certain areas of the country don't get left behind) to propping up firms with political connections.

    Plus, once you've stepped in once to stop jobs being lost, it becomes increasingly hard not to continue doing it.

    I hadn't previously thought of Dominic Cummings as a prototype Ted Heath, but I think they're temperamentally much more similar than they look.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 31,859

    It's not panic mode. I'm grateful that the Gov't this time are acting relatively swiftly amidst a sharp rise in European cases.

    It's inconvenient but a lot less inconvenient than having an intubation tube rammed down your esophagus for 3 weeks.

    +100%.

    The reality is that certain European countries, in an attempt to get their tourism industries going, have opened up sooner than they should have.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 31,859
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting, and encouraging news from Pfizer and their German partner.

    One of their vaccines (partly because their vaccine tech is quickest and cheaper to develop than conventional vaccines, they have more than one in the clinic) seems to work very well in older people - producing a better immune response than the disease itself does in those who recover.





    My hedge fund buddies have been pretty excited about this one for a while.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 949
    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    Yes. Yes it is.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 23,049
    edited July 28
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting, and encouraging news from Pfizer and their German partner.

    One of their vaccines (partly because their vaccine tech is quickest and cheaper to develop than conventional vaccines, they have more than one in the clinic) seems to work very well in older people - producing a better immune response than the disease itself does in those who recover.


    My hedge fund buddies have been pretty excited about this one for a while.
    Really ?
    The news that their full spike vaccine appears significantly more effective than their RBD targeting version was a bit of a surprise. :smile:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 23,049
    Also milder side effects...

    https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/27/pfizer-biontech-pick-covid19-vaccine-begin-pivotal-study/
    ... Philip Dormitzer, a Pfizer vice president in charge of vaccines, said the selected vaccine appears to generate a stronger response, in part because it includes more of the spike protein. That could mean less variability in how people respond to the vaccine. It also seemed to cause fewer side effects. “It just seemed a bit milder,” Dormitzer said in an interview. “There were fewer reactions to immunization, and that was an important mark in its favor.”

    Why this vaccine candidate would have milder side effects is not clear, but Pfizer scientists speculate it is because of changes made to the messenger RNA that make it easier for mammalian cells to produce it. Whatever the reason, Dormitzer said, this is the candidate Pfizer is testing during the pandemic, though it can’t rule out that other variants might be taken off the shelf in the future. “This really is the final choice,” he said....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 23,049
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting, and encouraging news from Pfizer and their German partner.

    One of their vaccines (partly because their vaccine tech is quickest and cheaper to develop than conventional vaccines, they have more than one in the clinic) seems to work very well in older people - producing a better immune response than the disease itself does in those who recover.



    My hedge fund buddies have been pretty excited about this one for a while.
    If it does prove safe and effective in large scale trials, that would be very exciting. It’s literally an order of magnitude cheaper to produce at scale than conventional vaccines.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 60,345
    Nigelb said:
    Illegal ?! Lol
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 23,049
    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:
    Illegal ?! Lol
    I think he’s anticipating what he’d do in his second term....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 34,369
    The action is totally justified and absolute hypocrisy from those who say it was too quick

    Fortunately 89% of Brits have taken the decision not to holiday abroad and have demonstrated pure common sense
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 34,369
    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:
    Illegal ?! Lol
    I think he’s anticipating what he’d do in his second term....
    Please do not suggest that first thing in the morning
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 23,049
    Not looking great in Japan, where the number of cases is slowly increasing:
    http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/13584458
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 23,049

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:
    Illegal ?! Lol
    I think he’s anticipating what he’d do in his second term....
    Please do not suggest that first thing in the morning
    To cheer you up, 538 has crunched the Florida numbers.
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-florida-could-go-blue-in-2020/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 19,198
    Good morning everyone. Will it be dry in Manchester? Dry enough for cricket anyway!
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 7,824

    Good morning everyone. Will it be dry in Manchester? Dry enough for cricket anyway!

    Borderline. My guess is about two sessions. Might be enough, might not.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 2,843
    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The problem with "state aid" is that it rapidly ends up going from its stated aims (improving the competitiveness of British firms, ensuring that certain areas of the country don't get left behind) to propping up firms with political connections.

    Plus, once you've stepped in once to stop jobs being lost, it becomes increasingly hard not to continue doing it.

    I hadn't previously thought of Dominic Cummings as a prototype Ted Heath, but I think they're temperamentally much more similar than they look.
    More government money for Friends of Dom.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 4,542

    More government money for Friends of Dom.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 19,198

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The problem with "state aid" is that it rapidly ends up going from its stated aims (improving the competitiveness of British firms, ensuring that certain areas of the country don't get left behind) to propping up firms with political connections.

    Plus, once you've stepped in once to stop jobs being lost, it becomes increasingly hard not to continue doing it.

    I hadn't previously thought of Dominic Cummings as a prototype Ted Heath, but I think they're temperamentally much more similar than they look.
    More government money for Friends of Dom.
    Went out for lunch on Sunday at a notable local restaurant, which is trying to get going again. Asked the owner, whom we know slightly, whether or not she was going to join the 'Eat Out' scheme. It was n't she said, worth it for her; most of her business was at weekends. I remarked that it seemed rather more suitable for Wetherspoons and other 'friends of Boris' and she agreed.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 4,542
    IanB2 said:

    As so often, Jenkins nails it. From the start the government has been in panic mode, and the whole story of the virus crisis in the UK has been dither and indecision followed by overreaction followed by more dither and often as not then a u-turn.

  • eekeek Posts: 8,645

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The problem with "state aid" is that it rapidly ends up going from its stated aims (improving the competitiveness of British firms, ensuring that certain areas of the country don't get left behind) to propping up firms with political connections.

    Plus, once you've stepped in once to stop jobs being lost, it becomes increasingly hard not to continue doing it.

    I hadn't previously thought of Dominic Cummings as a prototype Ted Heath, but I think they're temperamentally much more similar than they look.
    More government money for Friends of Dom.
    Went out for lunch on Sunday at a notable local restaurant, which is trying to get going again. Asked the owner, whom we know slightly, whether or not she was going to join the 'Eat Out' scheme. It was n't she said, worth it for her; most of her business was at weekends. I remarked that it seemed rather more suitable for Wetherspoons and other 'friends of Boris' and she agreed.
    Our favourite restaurant is part of the scheme and opening up Mondays and Tuesday for it. They suspect that with most people working from home it's irrelevant what day of the week they are open.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 27,168
    tlg86 said:

    IanB2 said:

    As so often, Jenkins nails it. From the start the government has been in panic mode, and the whole story of the virus crisis in the UK has been dither and indecision followed by overreaction followed by more dither and often as not then a u-turn.

    Has it? I wish the government had gone into panic mode at the beginning of March (or earlier). And I like Jenkins, but that paragraph could easily have been written by Peter Hitchens.

    I think the press have misjudged this badly. For once the government has made the right call and hopefully done it soon enough.
    They did. But panic can create indecision, rabbit in the headlights style, which was my point, and his.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 1,573
    IanB2 said:

    tlg86 said:

    IanB2 said:

    As so often, Jenkins nails it. From the start the government has been in panic mode, and the whole story of the virus crisis in the UK has been dither and indecision followed by overreaction followed by more dither and often as not then a u-turn.

    Has it? I wish the government had gone into panic mode at the beginning of March (or earlier). And I like Jenkins, but that paragraph could easily have been written by Peter Hitchens.

    I think the press have misjudged this badly. For once the government has made the right call and hopefully done it soon enough.
    They did. But panic can create indecision, rabbit in the headlights style, which was my point, and his.
    Individual decisions can be right in themselves but completely nonsensical when creating inconsistency with what the Government is doing elsewhere. It wouldn’t be surprising now if within a week the Government simply rechanged its advice to advise against all “non-essential” foreign travel just to remove the “uncertainty” again.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 27,168

    IanB2 said:

    As so often, Jenkins nails it. From the start the government has been in panic mode, and the whole story of the virus crisis in the UK has been dither and indecision followed by overreaction followed by more dither and often as not then a u-turn.

    ....but more recently they have improved.
    .
    That’s absurd; recently it has been getting worse. In as many days as you can almost count on your fingers, Spain has now been through rumoured quarantine, denied rumours, imposed quarantine, lifted (exempted) quarantine, and now re-imposed quarantine. And all along little to nothing is being done to actually enforce any of it!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 19,198
    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The problem with "state aid" is that it rapidly ends up going from its stated aims (improving the competitiveness of British firms, ensuring that certain areas of the country don't get left behind) to propping up firms with political connections.

    Plus, once you've stepped in once to stop jobs being lost, it becomes increasingly hard not to continue doing it.

    I hadn't previously thought of Dominic Cummings as a prototype Ted Heath, but I think they're temperamentally much more similar than they look.
    More government money for Friends of Dom.
    Went out for lunch on Sunday at a notable local restaurant, which is trying to get going again. Asked the owner, whom we know slightly, whether or not she was going to join the 'Eat Out' scheme. It was n't she said, worth it for her; most of her business was at weekends. I remarked that it seemed rather more suitable for Wetherspoons and other 'friends of Boris' and she agreed.
    Our favourite restaurant is part of the scheme and opening up Mondays and Tuesday for it. They suspect that with most people working from home it's irrelevant what day of the week they are open.

    Substantial extra staff costs though. Wonder what Ms Cyclefree and her daughter think off it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 31,859
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting, and encouraging news from Pfizer and their German partner.

    One of their vaccines (partly because their vaccine tech is quickest and cheaper to develop than conventional vaccines, they have more than one in the clinic) seems to work very well in older people - producing a better immune response than the disease itself does in those who recover.



    My hedge fund buddies have been pretty excited about this one for a while.
    If it does prove safe and effective in large scale trials, that would be very exciting. It’s literally an order of magnitude cheaper to produce at scale than conventional vaccines.
    That's their rationale: it's no more likely to work than others, but if CV19 turns out to be fairly easy to vaccinate against, then this vaccine will be produced faster and at lower cost. It could easily end up with a 90% market share.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 1,573
    It is also completely unclear what the broad aim of current government policy is. Is it to aim for some sort of “new normal” where there is a level of underlying risk to public health but for the most part all activities can continue on the basis that all take reasonable precaution measures to the extent possible. And of course inevitably some activities will be more risky than others (eg. pubs/restaurants vs shops). And only the most “dangerous” activities (eg.nightclubs) continue to be banned completely.

    Or is it to operate on the basis than any in theory allowable activity can be effectively curtailed at a moments notice, meaning that there is constant uncertainty and nobody can do any serious planning beyond next Tuesday. Impossible for businesses and impossible for any (particularly amateur) social activity.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    In the fast moving environment of a pandemic absolutely it does.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 27,168
    edited July 28

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    In the fast moving environment of a pandemic absolutely it does.
    Not back and forth in the way that government decision making is doing.

    In any event, what we have is ‘honesty box’ quarantine, which people who are generally sensible and who will have travelled taking every precaution will generally observe, and people who are reckless and who have been careless or worse on their holiday will take no notice of whatsoever.

    Germany - which has done much better than us so far - is currently preparing to test everyone returning from areas it considers at risk. Are we doing anything so proactive? Answer on a postcard (no need to write anything on it).
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 34,369

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    In the fast moving environment of a pandemic absolutely it does.
    How many of those calling foul now attacked HMG over Cheltenham and not quarantining flights much earlier.

    As I said earlier lots of hypocrisy on display today

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 5,664
    I won't be at all surprised if the government don't swiftly rescind the Spain thing following the obvious pressure from the entire travel sector about how many people they are about to make redundant. Contradiction and hypocrisy to do so? Perhaps, but as they're making it up every day with no clue what they did previous days (cf eat half price burgers / don't eat burgers) it fits the pattern of behaviour.

    If the "quarantine" was actually quarantine then perhaps they had a point. As it is if someone is even there at the airport to collect your form the authorities appear to spend zero enforcing it as them calling on you and you not being there is fine for a whole host of reasons. As with so much of their stuff it is nonsense on stilts.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    In the fast moving environment of a pandemic absolutely it does.
    Not back and forth in the way that government decision making is doing.

    In any event, what we have is ‘honesty box’ quarantine, which people who are generally sensible and who will have travelled taking every precaution will generally observe, and people who are reckless and who have been careless or worse on their holiday will take no notice of whatsoever.

    Germany - which has done much better than us so far - is currently preparing to test everyone returning from areas it considers at risk. Are we doing anything so proactive? Answer on a postcard (no need to write anything on it).
    Yes back and forth. Whackamole.

    We want to get as back to normal as possible to protect people's livelihoods while reacting quickly to squish any outbreaks when they pop up. Whackamole is the right analogy and the right tactic.

    I don't see anything wrong with wanting honesty from people. Overwhelming majority of people don't want to break the law or do the wrong thing.
  • eekeek Posts: 8,645

    I won't be at all surprised if the government don't swiftly rescind the Spain thing following the obvious pressure from the entire travel sector about how many people they are about to make redundant. Contradiction and hypocrisy to do so? Perhaps, but as they're making it up every day with no clue what they did previous days (cf eat half price burgers / don't eat burgers) it fits the pattern of behaviour.

    If the "quarantine" was actually quarantine then perhaps they had a point. As it is if someone is even there at the airport to collect your form the authorities appear to spend zero enforcing it as them calling on you and you not being there is fine for a whole host of reasons. As with so much of their stuff it is nonsense on stilts.

    That would require the Government to admit that they made a mistake. And as with Cummings when forced to choose between admitting they made a mistake and doubling down the Government will double down.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 5,664

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    In the fast moving environment of a pandemic absolutely it does.
    How many of those calling foul now attacked HMG over Cheltenham and not quarantining flights much earlier.

    As I said earlier lots of hypocrisy on display today

    I'm one of them. If HMG was quarantining people - you will not leave the airport, you will be escorted to a hotel where we will lock you in - then that would be good. That is what I was calling for them to do like so many other countries.

    What we have done instead is not quarantine. Lock yourself away - after getting public transport or a taxi if you need to. Stay home - unless you have to go out for a list of reasons including shopping. Or we'll use your form which you may not even have handed in and nobody has checked for accuracy to come check up on you. Except that we won't as no police force will waste one penny trying to enforce a colander to keep in water.

    When we needed to lock the doors, Priti Patel stood there with her smirk doing nothing. Then months down the line she shuts the bottom half of the stable door and leaves the top half open. Enough action to destroy the travel industry, not enough to have any impact at all on virus management. Forget Spain that is just one country added to a long list of countries many of whom have the rona out of control. And we just let people in without a care. Whilst throwing a totem onto the fire LOOK, we are TOUGH.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 24,155

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    In the fast moving environment of a pandemic absolutely it does.
    Not back and forth in the way that government decision making is doing.

    In any event, what we have is ‘honesty box’ quarantine, which people who are generally sensible and who will have travelled taking every precaution will generally observe, and people who are reckless and who have been careless or worse on their holiday will take no notice of whatsoever.

    Germany - which has done much better than us so far - is currently preparing to test everyone returning from areas it considers at risk. Are we doing anything so proactive? Answer on a postcard (no need to write anything on it).
    Yes back and forth. Whackamole.

    We want to get as back to normal as possible to protect people's livelihoods while reacting quickly to squish any outbreaks when they pop up. Whackamole is the right analogy and the right tactic.

    I don't see anything wrong with wanting honesty from people. Overwhelming majority of people don't want to break the law or do the wrong thing.
    Philip you do understand the whole concept of the whack a mole strategy is that it's ineffective by design.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    There's nothing inconsistent or hypocritical of the government both advising public health for obesity and trying to protect the hospitality industry from devastation with the eat out scheme.

    Honestly some people's sneering and condescension here just shows how out of touch and what a lack of understanding they have for the livelihoods of millions who are struggling right now.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 5,664
    eek said:

    I won't be at all surprised if the government don't swiftly rescind the Spain thing following the obvious pressure from the entire travel sector about how many people they are about to make redundant. Contradiction and hypocrisy to do so? Perhaps, but as they're making it up every day with no clue what they did previous days (cf eat half price burgers / don't eat burgers) it fits the pattern of behaviour.

    If the "quarantine" was actually quarantine then perhaps they had a point. As it is if someone is even there at the airport to collect your form the authorities appear to spend zero enforcing it as them calling on you and you not being there is fine for a whole host of reasons. As with so much of their stuff it is nonsense on stilts.

    That would require the Government to admit that they made a mistake. And as with Cummings when forced to choose between admitting they made a mistake and doubling down the Government will double down.
    So if we all need to lose weight and the government is announcing a stack of anti-obesity measures from August including the plan to scrap buy one get one free on food, was not buy one burger get one free in August a mistake...? Or just the usual disorganised chaos.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 6,100

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    In the fast moving environment of a pandemic absolutely it does.
    How many of those calling foul now attacked HMG over Cheltenham and not quarantining flights much earlier.

    As I said earlier lots of hypocrisy on display today

    It is quite bizarre. Learning lessons from the past is now seen as a stick to beat those who made mistakes rather than actually plotting a different course for the future. On the detail I think making a regional case in Spain would have been better but its fairly ridiculous to criticise them for the speed of the decision, even more so from those who complained about the lockdown being too slow.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 31,657
    As someone who was appalled by the failure to have mandatory quarantine for international travelers in March and April I welcome the fact that the government is more alert to the dangers this time. Our R rate still seems perilously close to 1 and holidays and travel seem unnecessary risks to take.

    We cannot afford another lockdown. If this helps, even at the margins, it is the right thing to do.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 4,542

    Whackamole is the right analogy and the right tactic.

    The Government thinks the pandemic is

    1. a game
    2. can never be beaten

    Awesome.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084

    eek said:

    I won't be at all surprised if the government don't swiftly rescind the Spain thing following the obvious pressure from the entire travel sector about how many people they are about to make redundant. Contradiction and hypocrisy to do so? Perhaps, but as they're making it up every day with no clue what they did previous days (cf eat half price burgers / don't eat burgers) it fits the pattern of behaviour.

    If the "quarantine" was actually quarantine then perhaps they had a point. As it is if someone is even there at the airport to collect your form the authorities appear to spend zero enforcing it as them calling on you and you not being there is fine for a whole host of reasons. As with so much of their stuff it is nonsense on stilts.

    That would require the Government to admit that they made a mistake. And as with Cummings when forced to choose between admitting they made a mistake and doubling down the Government will double down.
    So if we all need to lose weight and the government is announcing a stack of anti-obesity measures from August including the plan to scrap buy one get one free on food, was not buy one burger get one free in August a mistake...? Or just the usual disorganised chaos.
    QTWAIN.

    Not a mistake. The industry is devastated at the minute. And while going out it's entirely possible to think about what you order and choose a healthier option and not a supersized meal with sugary drinks.

    The key to having a healthy weight is to make smart choices ... it is categorically NOT to never go out!
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 1,573
    edited July 28
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    In the fast moving environment of a pandemic absolutely it does.
    Not back and forth in the way that government decision making is doing.

    In any event, what we have is ‘honesty box’ quarantine, which people who are generally sensible and who will have travelled taking every precaution will generally observe, and people who are reckless and who have been careless or worse on their holiday will take no notice of whatsoever.

    Germany - which has done much better than us so far - is currently preparing to test everyone returning from areas it considers at risk. Are we doing anything so proactive? Answer on a postcard (no need to write anything on it).
    I just do not understand why the government seems so unwilling to use testing as a tool to better target measures like quarantine etc. So they don’t want to test people on arrival because apparently people may be incubating the virus but not produce positive results for a few days. But what is the risk of this? Are we talking about 1% “false negative”? Or 10%? Or 50%? It shouldn’t matter if a very low % slip through if the overall risk is acceptable - that’s risk management. 2m isn’t a “safe distance” for social distancing, it is relatively safe on the balance of risks.

    And if the risks are unacceptably high for testing on entry, then do testing after, say 4 days. Or what ever period is considered acceptably safe. All is better than 14 days, no testing, and then do what you want. Because there is even a risk then that some percentage will slip through undetected. And that’s even before you factor in non compliance.
  • eekeek Posts: 8,645

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The problem with "state aid" is that it rapidly ends up going from its stated aims (improving the competitiveness of British firms, ensuring that certain areas of the country don't get left behind) to propping up firms with political connections.

    Plus, once you've stepped in once to stop jobs being lost, it becomes increasingly hard not to continue doing it.

    I hadn't previously thought of Dominic Cummings as a prototype Ted Heath, but I think they're temperamentally much more similar than they look.
    More government money for Friends of Dom.
    Went out for lunch on Sunday at a notable local restaurant, which is trying to get going again. Asked the owner, whom we know slightly, whether or not she was going to join the 'Eat Out' scheme. It was n't she said, worth it for her; most of her business was at weekends. I remarked that it seemed rather more suitable for Wetherspoons and other 'friends of Boris' and she agreed.
    Our favourite restaurant is part of the scheme and opening up Mondays and Tuesday for it. They suspect that with most people working from home it's irrelevant what day of the week they are open.

    Substantial extra staff costs though. Wonder what Ms Cyclefree and her daughter think off it.
    For Ms Cyclefree's daughter I suspect it makes little difference as most of the lakes will be open 7 days a week at the moment anyway (it's the summer).

    And for my favourite restaurant the staff costs are minimal. Owner and owner's wife plus 1 cook who lives above the restaurant.

    Separately I should say (and forgot) that we were in the lakes last week and it was very busy. Hawkshead was as busy as any of us could remember it, Grasmere was busy and we were only able to eat in Keswick because we were quick and were able to be slotted in between bookings.
  • eekeek Posts: 8,645

    eek said:

    I won't be at all surprised if the government don't swiftly rescind the Spain thing following the obvious pressure from the entire travel sector about how many people they are about to make redundant. Contradiction and hypocrisy to do so? Perhaps, but as they're making it up every day with no clue what they did previous days (cf eat half price burgers / don't eat burgers) it fits the pattern of behaviour.

    If the "quarantine" was actually quarantine then perhaps they had a point. As it is if someone is even there at the airport to collect your form the authorities appear to spend zero enforcing it as them calling on you and you not being there is fine for a whole host of reasons. As with so much of their stuff it is nonsense on stilts.

    That would require the Government to admit that they made a mistake. And as with Cummings when forced to choose between admitting they made a mistake and doubling down the Government will double down.
    So if we all need to lose weight and the government is announcing a stack of anti-obesity measures from August including the plan to scrap buy one get one free on food, was not buy one burger get one free in August a mistake...? Or just the usual disorganised chaos.
    QTWAIN.

    Not a mistake. The industry is devastated at the minute. And while going out it's entirely possible to think about what you order and choose a healthier option and not a supersized meal with sugary drinks.

    The key to having a healthy weight is to make smart choices ... it is categorically NOT to never go out!
    Most of the places locally using the scheme are sadly the sugary drinks and unhealthy food options.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    Scott_xP said:

    Whackamole is the right analogy and the right tactic.

    The Government thinks the pandemic is

    1. a game
    2. can never be beaten

    Awesome.
    1. No.
    2. Yes.

    Containing it right now is the solution. It can't be beaten for now but it can be contained. The idea whackamole doesn't end and lasts forever is a rather delusional criticism otherwise if you've ever played it even once you still would be playing it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 24,155
    eek said:

    eek said:

    I won't be at all surprised if the government don't swiftly rescind the Spain thing following the obvious pressure from the entire travel sector about how many people they are about to make redundant. Contradiction and hypocrisy to do so? Perhaps, but as they're making it up every day with no clue what they did previous days (cf eat half price burgers / don't eat burgers) it fits the pattern of behaviour.

    If the "quarantine" was actually quarantine then perhaps they had a point. As it is if someone is even there at the airport to collect your form the authorities appear to spend zero enforcing it as them calling on you and you not being there is fine for a whole host of reasons. As with so much of their stuff it is nonsense on stilts.

    That would require the Government to admit that they made a mistake. And as with Cummings when forced to choose between admitting they made a mistake and doubling down the Government will double down.
    So if we all need to lose weight and the government is announcing a stack of anti-obesity measures from August including the plan to scrap buy one get one free on food, was not buy one burger get one free in August a mistake...? Or just the usual disorganised chaos.
    QTWAIN.

    Not a mistake. The industry is devastated at the minute. And while going out it's entirely possible to think about what you order and choose a healthier option and not a supersized meal with sugary drinks.

    The key to having a healthy weight is to make smart choices ... it is categorically NOT to never go out!
    Most of the places locally using the scheme are sadly the sugary drinks and unhealthy food options.
    At the price point where it applies this had to be the case.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 31,657
    alex_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    In the fast moving environment of a pandemic absolutely it does.
    Not back and forth in the way that government decision making is doing.

    In any event, what we have is ‘honesty box’ quarantine, which people who are generally sensible and who will have travelled taking every precaution will generally observe, and people who are reckless and who have been careless or worse on their holiday will take no notice of whatsoever.

    Germany - which has done much better than us so far - is currently preparing to test everyone returning from areas it considers at risk. Are we doing anything so proactive? Answer on a postcard (no need to write anything on it).
    I just do not understand why the government seems so unwilling to use testing as a tool to better target measures like quarantine etc. So they don’t want to test people on arrival because apparently people may be incubating the virus but not produce positive results for a few days. But what is the risk of this? Are we talking about 1% “false negative”? Or 10%? Or 50%? It shouldn’t matter if a very low % slip through if the overall risk is acceptable - that’s risk management. 2m isn’t a “safe distance” for social distancing, it is relatively safe on the balance of risks.

    And if the risks are unacceptably high for testing on entry, then do testing after, say 4 days. Or what ever period is considered acceptably safe. All is better than 14 days, no testing, and then do what you want. Because there is even a risk then that some percentage will slip through undetected. And that’s even before you factor in non compliance.
    I agree. Testing is a numbers game. If it identifies 80% of those infected allowing them to be isolated this is a very positive result. I have never understood the boffins obsession with 100% accuracy.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 5,664

    eek said:

    I won't be at all surprised if the government don't swiftly rescind the Spain thing following the obvious pressure from the entire travel sector about how many people they are about to make redundant. Contradiction and hypocrisy to do so? Perhaps, but as they're making it up every day with no clue what they did previous days (cf eat half price burgers / don't eat burgers) it fits the pattern of behaviour.

    If the "quarantine" was actually quarantine then perhaps they had a point. As it is if someone is even there at the airport to collect your form the authorities appear to spend zero enforcing it as them calling on you and you not being there is fine for a whole host of reasons. As with so much of their stuff it is nonsense on stilts.

    That would require the Government to admit that they made a mistake. And as with Cummings when forced to choose between admitting they made a mistake and doubling down the Government will double down.
    So if we all need to lose weight and the government is announcing a stack of anti-obesity measures from August including the plan to scrap buy one get one free on food, was not buy one burger get one free in August a mistake...? Or just the usual disorganised chaos.
    QTWAIN.

    Not a mistake. The industry is devastated at the minute. And while going out it's entirely possible to think about what you order and choose a healthier option and not a supersized meal with sugary drinks.

    The key to having a healthy weight is to make smart choices ... it is categorically NOT to never go out!
    I know you are on the libertarian end of the spectrum and I respect that. Which means that you know as well as I do what people are in most cases likely to be eating. It is not "sneering condescension" to point out that half price burgers in McDonalds paid for by the government is a direct contradiction to "stop eating burgers" said by the government. Yes its a fine balance between jobs and health. They don't attempt a balance or nuance. Its "eat burgers / don't eat burgers" in the same breath.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 4,542
    eek said:

    Most of the places locally using the scheme are sadly the sugary drinks and unhealthy food options.

    I would advise readers to refer the 'obesity' episode of The Hollow Men if they can find a copy.

    A PM launches an obesity drive on the back of an ill-fated public appearance. Then the junk food manufacturers that sponsor every major sporting league (and bankroll the party) get involved...

    Coincidentally, Tate & Lyle are big Brexit supporters
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    In the fast moving environment of a pandemic absolutely it does.
    Not back and forth in the way that government decision making is doing.

    In any event, what we have is ‘honesty box’ quarantine, which people who are generally sensible and who will have travelled taking every precaution will generally observe, and people who are reckless and who have been careless or worse on their holiday will take no notice of whatsoever.

    Germany - which has done much better than us so far - is currently preparing to test everyone returning from areas it considers at risk. Are we doing anything so proactive? Answer on a postcard (no need to write anything on it).
    Yes back and forth. Whackamole.

    We want to get as back to normal as possible to protect people's livelihoods while reacting quickly to squish any outbreaks when they pop up. Whackamole is the right analogy and the right tactic.

    I don't see anything wrong with wanting honesty from people. Overwhelming majority of people don't want to break the law or do the wrong thing.
    Philip you do understand the whole concept of the whack a mole strategy is that it's ineffective by design.
    No it's effective by design. Squish outbreaks as they pop up.

    By design we are acknowledging that more issues will pop up but we need to be alert to that and prepared for when they do to squish them too until this ends (which whackamole does, it does end).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 34,831
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    As so often, Jenkins nails it. From the start the government has been in panic mode, and the whole story of the virus crisis in the UK has been dither and indecision followed by overreaction followed by more dither and often as not then a u-turn.

    ....but more recently they have improved.
    .
    That’s absurd; recently it has been getting worse. In as many days as you can almost count on your fingers, Spain has now been through rumoured quarantine, denied rumours, imposed quarantine, lifted (exempted) quarantine, and now re-imposed quarantine. And all along little to nothing is being done to actually enforce any of it!
    So best not go to Spain just now then. Says the Government.

    What pillocks are saying otherwise?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 4,087
    Does anyone have any information on whether other countries have reimposed quarantine requirements on Spain?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 20,282
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    In the fast moving environment of a pandemic absolutely it does.
    Not back and forth in the way that government decision making is doing.

    In any event, what we have is ‘honesty box’ quarantine, which people who are generally sensible and who will have travelled taking every precaution will generally observe, and people who are reckless and who have been careless or worse on their holiday will take no notice of whatsoever.

    Germany - which has done much better than us so far - is currently preparing to test everyone returning from areas it considers at risk. Are we doing anything so proactive? Answer on a postcard (no need to write anything on it).
    Yes, there is currently a feasibility trial at Heathrow to do exactly this.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 4,087
    edited July 28
    Visited my local Tesco Metro last night.

    Forgot to add the snood for the first 20 seconds. After apologising discovered that the policy is "we can't enforce it".

    I'd say the answer is "yes, they can - or at least remind". Not impressed with such sloped shoulders.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 34,831
    Scott_xP said:

    Whackamole is the right analogy and the right tactic.

    The Government thinks the pandemic is

    1. a game
    2. can never be beaten

    Awesome.
    Go back to retweeting the same items on multiple threads. That's your level.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 6,100
    MattW said:

    Does anyone have any information on whether other countries have reimposed quarantine requirements on Spain?

    https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2020-07-28/Spain-left-reeling-as-European-nations-impose-travel-restrictions-Stuai8UuQM/index.html

    France, Germany, Poland, Belgium, Holland, Norway and Ireland all have some requirements - Norway the only one with a full new national quarantine? although Ireland effectively the same as released other countries apart from Spain from their quarantine list.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 1,573
    edited July 28
    DavidL said:

    alex_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    In the fast moving environment of a pandemic absolutely it does.
    Not back and forth in the way that government decision making is doing.

    In any event, what we have is ‘honesty box’ quarantine, which people who are generally sensible and who will have travelled taking every precaution will generally observe, and people who are reckless and who have been careless or worse on their holiday will take no notice of whatsoever.

    Germany - which has done much better than us so far - is currently preparing to test everyone returning from areas it considers at risk. Are we doing anything so proactive? Answer on a postcard (no need to write anything on it).
    I just do not understand why the government seems so unwilling to use testing as a tool to better target measures like quarantine etc. So they don’t want to test people on arrival because apparently people may be incubating the virus but not produce positive results for a few days. But what is the risk of this? Are we talking about 1% “false negative”? Or 10%? Or 50%? It shouldn’t matter if a very low % slip through if the overall risk is acceptable - that’s risk management. 2m isn’t a “safe distance” for social distancing, it is relatively safe on the balance of risks.

    And if the risks are unacceptably high for testing on entry, then do testing after, say 4 days. Or what ever period is considered acceptably safe. All is better than 14 days, no testing, and then do what you want. Because there is even a risk then that some percentage will slip through undetected. And that’s even before you factor in non compliance.
    I agree. Testing is a numbers game. If it identifies 80% of those infected allowing them to be isolated this is a very positive result. I have never understood the boffins obsession with 100% accuracy.
    I suppose the counter argument is that a person who has produced a false negative becomes an exponentially greater risk. They will feel free to act with impunity and disregard all safety measures they might otherwise have taken. Although this would still be at personal risk to themselves even not (they perceive) to others.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084

    eek said:

    I won't be at all surprised if the government don't swiftly rescind the Spain thing following the obvious pressure from the entire travel sector about how many people they are about to make redundant. Contradiction and hypocrisy to do so? Perhaps, but as they're making it up every day with no clue what they did previous days (cf eat half price burgers / don't eat burgers) it fits the pattern of behaviour.

    If the "quarantine" was actually quarantine then perhaps they had a point. As it is if someone is even there at the airport to collect your form the authorities appear to spend zero enforcing it as them calling on you and you not being there is fine for a whole host of reasons. As with so much of their stuff it is nonsense on stilts.

    That would require the Government to admit that they made a mistake. And as with Cummings when forced to choose between admitting they made a mistake and doubling down the Government will double down.
    So if we all need to lose weight and the government is announcing a stack of anti-obesity measures from August including the plan to scrap buy one get one free on food, was not buy one burger get one free in August a mistake...? Or just the usual disorganised chaos.
    QTWAIN.

    Not a mistake. The industry is devastated at the minute. And while going out it's entirely possible to think about what you order and choose a healthier option and not a supersized meal with sugary drinks.

    The key to having a healthy weight is to make smart choices ... it is categorically NOT to never go out!
    I know you are on the libertarian end of the spectrum and I respect that. Which means that you know as well as I do what people are in most cases likely to be eating. It is not "sneering condescension" to point out that half price burgers in McDonalds paid for by the government is a direct contradiction to "stop eating burgers" said by the government. Yes its a fine balance between jobs and health. They don't attempt a balance or nuance. Its "eat burgers / don't eat burgers" in the same breath.
    No hypocrisy. It's half price anything but be careful and don't overeat.

    One meal does not obesity cause. A lifetime of smart choices is required to keep healthy.

    The government should not be saying all or nothing. Education and moderation are key, what is wrong with that?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 6,166
    "The Foreign Office later extended its travel advice, telling people to avoid all non-essential journeys to the Canary and Balearic Islands, as well as mainland Spain."

    The Canary and Balearic Islands have a lower incidence of the virus than the UK.

    "Defending the decision to extend advice against non-essential travel to the Spanish islands as well as the mainland, Local Government Minister Simon Clarke said it was taken to "minimise disruption" for travellers.

    “Clearly you do have to make decisions on a country-wide basis.
    " he said.

    This is clearly nuts. If I were holidaying in the Canaries I would go ahead and simply ignore the government's advice to self isolate for 14 days on my return with no qualms whatsover as it wouldn't increase risk.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 4,542

    Go back to retweeting the same items on multiple threads.

    If you ever work out what a retweet is, do let us know...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 4,542
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    I won't be at all surprised if the government don't swiftly rescind the Spain thing following the obvious pressure from the entire travel sector about how many people they are about to make redundant. Contradiction and hypocrisy to do so? Perhaps, but as they're making it up every day with no clue what they did previous days (cf eat half price burgers / don't eat burgers) it fits the pattern of behaviour.

    If the "quarantine" was actually quarantine then perhaps they had a point. As it is if someone is even there at the airport to collect your form the authorities appear to spend zero enforcing it as them calling on you and you not being there is fine for a whole host of reasons. As with so much of their stuff it is nonsense on stilts.

    That would require the Government to admit that they made a mistake. And as with Cummings when forced to choose between admitting they made a mistake and doubling down the Government will double down.
    So if we all need to lose weight and the government is announcing a stack of anti-obesity measures from August including the plan to scrap buy one get one free on food, was not buy one burger get one free in August a mistake...? Or just the usual disorganised chaos.
    QTWAIN.

    Not a mistake. The industry is devastated at the minute. And while going out it's entirely possible to think about what you order and choose a healthier option and not a supersized meal with sugary drinks.

    The key to having a healthy weight is to make smart choices ... it is categorically NOT to never go out!
    Most of the places locally using the scheme are sadly the sugary drinks and unhealthy food options.
    At the price point where it applies this had to be the case.
    I don't know where you go to but half price of up to £20 per person (£10 discount) covers almost every meal of almost any restaurant in my area.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 34,369
    I suspect foreign holidays are over for most for this year

    Time to holiday in the UK
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 1,573

    eek said:

    I won't be at all surprised if the government don't swiftly rescind the Spain thing following the obvious pressure from the entire travel sector about how many people they are about to make redundant. Contradiction and hypocrisy to do so? Perhaps, but as they're making it up every day with no clue what they did previous days (cf eat half price burgers / don't eat burgers) it fits the pattern of behaviour.

    If the "quarantine" was actually quarantine then perhaps they had a point. As it is if someone is even there at the airport to collect your form the authorities appear to spend zero enforcing it as them calling on you and you not being there is fine for a whole host of reasons. As with so much of their stuff it is nonsense on stilts.

    That would require the Government to admit that they made a mistake. And as with Cummings when forced to choose between admitting they made a mistake and doubling down the Government will double down.
    So if we all need to lose weight and the government is announcing a stack of anti-obesity measures from August including the plan to scrap buy one get one free on food, was not buy one burger get one free in August a mistake...? Or just the usual disorganised chaos.
    QTWAIN.

    Not a mistake. The industry is devastated at the minute. And while going out it's entirely possible to think about what you order and choose a healthier option and not a supersized meal with sugary drinks.

    The key to having a healthy weight is to make smart choices ... it is categorically NOT to never go out!
    I know you are on the libertarian end of the spectrum and I respect that. Which means that you know as well as I do what people are in most cases likely to be eating. It is not "sneering condescension" to point out that half price burgers in McDonalds paid for by the government is a direct contradiction to "stop eating burgers" said by the government. Yes its a fine balance between jobs and health. They don't attempt a balance or nuance. Its "eat burgers / don't eat burgers" in the same breath.
    No hypocrisy. It's half price anything but be careful and don't overeat.

    One meal does not obesity cause. A lifetime of smart choices is required to keep healthy.

    The government should not be saying all or nothing. Education and moderation are key, what is wrong with that?
    Philip, are you overlooking that the trailed “anti-obesity measures” are not to be simply “guidance”? They include proposals to ban retailers from offering deals on high fat products. That is where the inconsistency and incoherence comes in.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 20,282
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    In the fast moving environment of a pandemic absolutely it does.
    Not back and forth in the way that government decision making is doing.

    In any event, what we have is ‘honesty box’ quarantine, which people who are generally sensible and who will have travelled taking every precaution will generally observe, and people who are reckless and who have been careless or worse on their holiday will take no notice of whatsoever.

    Germany - which has done much better than us so far - is currently preparing to test everyone returning from areas it considers at risk. Are we doing anything so proactive? Answer on a postcard (no need to write anything on it).
    Also, Germany and the UK are running exactly the same test on entry trials with different tests being selected and different methods of making people wait to see what the best and most effective way to do it is. The Novacyt saliva test seems to be the key to making it works at scale, until then it doesn't look to be feasible to test 200-300k arrivals per day and making them wait somewhere for 6 hours.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 5,664

    eek said:

    I won't be at all surprised if the government don't swiftly rescind the Spain thing following the obvious pressure from the entire travel sector about how many people they are about to make redundant. Contradiction and hypocrisy to do so? Perhaps, but as they're making it up every day with no clue what they did previous days (cf eat half price burgers / don't eat burgers) it fits the pattern of behaviour.

    If the "quarantine" was actually quarantine then perhaps they had a point. As it is if someone is even there at the airport to collect your form the authorities appear to spend zero enforcing it as them calling on you and you not being there is fine for a whole host of reasons. As with so much of their stuff it is nonsense on stilts.

    That would require the Government to admit that they made a mistake. And as with Cummings when forced to choose between admitting they made a mistake and doubling down the Government will double down.
    So if we all need to lose weight and the government is announcing a stack of anti-obesity measures from August including the plan to scrap buy one get one free on food, was not buy one burger get one free in August a mistake...? Or just the usual disorganised chaos.
    QTWAIN.

    Not a mistake. The industry is devastated at the minute. And while going out it's entirely possible to think about what you order and choose a healthier option and not a supersized meal with sugary drinks.

    The key to having a healthy weight is to make smart choices ... it is categorically NOT to never go out!
    I know you are on the libertarian end of the spectrum and I respect that. Which means that you know as well as I do what people are in most cases likely to be eating. It is not "sneering condescension" to point out that half price burgers in McDonalds paid for by the government is a direct contradiction to "stop eating burgers" said by the government. Yes its a fine balance between jobs and health. They don't attempt a balance or nuance. Its "eat burgers / don't eat burgers" in the same breath.
    No hypocrisy. It's half price anything but be careful and don't overeat.

    One meal does not obesity cause. A lifetime of smart choices is required to keep healthy.

    The government should not be saying all or nothing. Education and moderation are key, what is wrong with that?
    Philip. "Be careful and don't overeat". In McDonalds. On Half Price Big Macs. With restaurants specifically reopened to allow people to do so.

    Come on. You know what McDonalds punters are in there for. Its not for a salad bowl.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 6,100
    MattW said:

    Visited my local Tesco Metro last night.

    Forgot to add the snood for the first 20 seconds. After apologising discovered that the policy is "we can't enforce it".

    I'd say the answer is "yes, they can - or at least remind". Not impressed with such sloped shoulders.

    Remember there are a significant number with exemptions, not sure how that can be policed any more than someone using a disabled toilet for example. An honour system is the best approach.

    Also, mask usage is not some binary yes/no cure here, it just reduces the risk a bit. If 80% are wearing them, 10% are exempt and 10% are Cummings then the risk is being reduced substantially still.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 551
    My anecdata from two different friends that were in Spain when "quarantine" measures were re-introduced is that they have no intention whatsoever of following the advice. One is already back at work in his office (for the first time since March ironically). The other intends to fly back 48 hours before the school term starts.

    What annoys me most about this government is that they insult our intelligence with the messaging. Stop playing games. Either imported cases matter, in which case stop fucking about and ban RyanAir from flying and take arrivals to central quarantine facilities. Or it doesn't matter in the grand scheme with good flight hygiene and pre-boarding testing and let people do what they want.

    It's like the country is being run by the two facets of Tyler Durden.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 34,369
    Scott_xP said:
    Any changes will need to be UK wide involving the devolved administrations

    I do not see any changes, indeed I see more countries being included
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 20,282
    DavidL said:

    alex_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    In the fast moving environment of a pandemic absolutely it does.
    Not back and forth in the way that government decision making is doing.

    In any event, what we have is ‘honesty box’ quarantine, which people who are generally sensible and who will have travelled taking every precaution will generally observe, and people who are reckless and who have been careless or worse on their holiday will take no notice of whatsoever.

    Germany - which has done much better than us so far - is currently preparing to test everyone returning from areas it considers at risk. Are we doing anything so proactive? Answer on a postcard (no need to write anything on it).
    I just do not understand why the government seems so unwilling to use testing as a tool to better target measures like quarantine etc. So they don’t want to test people on arrival because apparently people may be incubating the virus but not produce positive results for a few days. But what is the risk of this? Are we talking about 1% “false negative”? Or 10%? Or 50%? It shouldn’t matter if a very low % slip through if the overall risk is acceptable - that’s risk management. 2m isn’t a “safe distance” for social distancing, it is relatively safe on the balance of risks.

    And if the risks are unacceptably high for testing on entry, then do testing after, say 4 days. Or what ever period is considered acceptably safe. All is better than 14 days, no testing, and then do what you want. Because there is even a risk then that some percentage will slip through undetected. And that’s even before you factor in non compliance.
    I agree. Testing is a numbers game. If it identifies 80% of those infected allowing them to be isolated this is a very positive result. I have never understood the boffins obsession with 100% accuracy.
    Because the 20% may turn into superspreaders if you inform them they don't have it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 34,831
    "The UK government decision to impose a 14-day quarantine on everyone arriving from Spain was "unjust", the country's prime minister has said.

    Pedro Sánchez said tourists in most Spanish regions would be safer from coronavirus than in the UK"

    Really? Safer than the south west of England for example? Leads me to think you are desperatelly talking out your arse, Pedro...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53562603
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 31,657
    alex_ said:

    DavidL said:

    alex_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    In the fast moving environment of a pandemic absolutely it does.
    Not back and forth in the way that government decision making is doing.

    In any event, what we have is ‘honesty box’ quarantine, which people who are generally sensible and who will have travelled taking every precaution will generally observe, and people who are reckless and who have been careless or worse on their holiday will take no notice of whatsoever.

    Germany - which has done much better than us so far - is currently preparing to test everyone returning from areas it considers at risk. Are we doing anything so proactive? Answer on a postcard (no need to write anything on it).
    I just do not understand why the government seems so unwilling to use testing as a tool to better target measures like quarantine etc. So they don’t want to test people on arrival because apparently people may be incubating the virus but not produce positive results for a few days. But what is the risk of this? Are we talking about 1% “false negative”? Or 10%? Or 50%? It shouldn’t matter if a very low % slip through if the overall risk is acceptable - that’s risk management. 2m isn’t a “safe distance” for social distancing, it is relatively safe on the balance of risks.

    And if the risks are unacceptably high for testing on entry, then do testing after, say 4 days. Or what ever period is considered acceptably safe. All is better than 14 days, no testing, and then do what you want. Because there is even a risk then that some percentage will slip through undetected. And that’s even before you factor in non compliance.
    I agree. Testing is a numbers game. If it identifies 80% of those infected allowing them to be isolated this is a very positive result. I have never understood the boffins obsession with 100% accuracy.
    I suppose the counter argument is that a person who has produced a false negative becomes an exponentially greater risk. They will feel free to act with impunity and disregard all safety measures they might otherwise have taken. Although this would still be at personal risk to themselves even not (they perceive) to others.
    Not really, they would still want to socially distance to avoid infection here. This is what was said at the press conferences. A test that was less than 100% reliable was “worse than useless “. I just think that like so many other things they got that wrong. If 80% of cases are isolated early the R rate will fall.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 5,202

    I suspect foreign holidays are over for most for this year

    Time to holiday in the UK


  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084


    eek said:

    I won't be at all surprised if the government don't swiftly rescind the Spain thing following the obvious pressure from the entire travel sector about how many people they are about to make redundant. Contradiction and hypocrisy to do so? Perhaps, but as they're making it up every day with no clue what they did previous days (cf eat half price burgers / don't eat burgers) it fits the pattern of behaviour.

    If the "quarantine" was actually quarantine then perhaps they had a point. As it is if someone is even there at the airport to collect your form the authorities appear to spend zero enforcing it as them calling on you and you not being there is fine for a whole host of reasons. As with so much of their stuff it is nonsense on stilts.

    That would require the Government to admit that they made a mistake. And as with Cummings when forced to choose between admitting they made a mistake and doubling down the Government will double down.
    So if we all need to lose weight and the government is announcing a stack of anti-obesity measures from August including the plan to scrap buy one get one free on food, was not buy one burger get one free in August a mistake...? Or just the usual disorganised chaos.
    QTWAIN.

    Not a mistake. The industry is devastated at the minute. And while going out it's entirely possible to think about what you order and choose a healthier option and not a supersized meal with sugary drinks.

    The key to having a healthy weight is to make smart choices ... it is categorically NOT to never go out!
    I know you are on the libertarian end of the spectrum and I respect that. Which means that you know as well as I do what people are in most cases likely to be eating. It is not "sneering condescension" to point out that half price burgers in McDonalds paid for by the government is a direct contradiction to "stop eating burgers" said by the government. Yes its a fine balance between jobs and health. They don't attempt a balance or nuance. Its "eat burgers / don't eat burgers" in the same breath.
    No hypocrisy. It's half price anything but be careful and don't overeat.

    One meal does not obesity cause. A lifetime of smart choices is required to keep healthy.

    The government should not be saying all or nothing. Education and moderation are key, what is wrong with that?
    Philip. "Be careful and don't overeat". In McDonalds. On Half Price Big Macs. With restaurants specifically reopened to allow people to do so.

    Come on. You know what McDonalds punters are in there for. Its not for a salad bowl.
    How often do you eat at McDonald's? I do, do you with your sneering pretensions?

    If you actually eat their nobody puts a gun against your head and forces you to buy a meal with large fries and large sugary Coke.

    When we go we get out children chicken nuggets with carrot sticks instead of fries in their happy meal. I tend to get a burger and side salad instead of fries and Coke Zero.

    Personal choice and responsibilities are things for people to learn.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 5,664
    Barnesian said:

    "The Foreign Office later extended its travel advice, telling people to avoid all non-essential journeys to the Canary and Balearic Islands, as well as mainland Spain."

    The Canary and Balearic Islands have a lower incidence of the virus than the UK.

    "Defending the decision to extend advice against non-essential travel to the Spanish islands as well as the mainland, Local Government Minister Simon Clarke said it was taken to "minimise disruption" for travellers.

    “Clearly you do have to make decisions on a country-wide basis.
    " he said.

    This is clearly nuts. If I were holidaying in the Canaries I would go ahead and simply ignore the government's advice to self isolate for 14 days on my return with no qualms whatsover as it wouldn't increase risk.

    I'm not advising anyone. But remember that even if they collect your form and even if you have filled it in accurately nobody is going to knock on your door on day 12 to check you are at the location stated. Even if the police had the time / money to try and enforce this then know that "I went out for a shop" or "it was an emergency" are enough to avoid the fine. Which is why not a penny has been spent on enforcement.

    It is not a quarantine.

    As for the comments about Tesco enforcing masks why should a poorly paid shop worker open themselves up to more violence and abuse? They've been on the receiving end of some horrendous examples during this pandemic already. If aggressive young scrote / libertarian gammon doesn't want to wear a mask the shops aren't going to make them change their minds.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 4,542
    moonshine said:

    It's like the country is being run by the two facets of Tyler Durden.

    Which has been true since Durham.

    Follow the guidance, unless you don't want to, like Dom...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 6,023
    DavidL said:

    alex_ said:

    DavidL said:

    alex_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    In the fast moving environment of a pandemic absolutely it does.
    Not back and forth in the way that government decision making is doing.

    In any event, what we have is ‘honesty box’ quarantine, which people who are generally sensible and who will have travelled taking every precaution will generally observe, and people who are reckless and who have been careless or worse on their holiday will take no notice of whatsoever.

    Germany - which has done much better than us so far - is currently preparing to test everyone returning from areas it considers at risk. Are we doing anything so proactive? Answer on a postcard (no need to write anything on it).
    I just do not understand why the government seems so unwilling to use testing as a tool to better target measures like quarantine etc. So they don’t want to test people on arrival because apparently people may be incubating the virus but not produce positive results for a few days. But what is the risk of this? Are we talking about 1% “false negative”? Or 10%? Or 50%? It shouldn’t matter if a very low % slip through if the overall risk is acceptable - that’s risk management. 2m isn’t a “safe distance” for social distancing, it is relatively safe on the balance of risks.

    And if the risks are unacceptably high for testing on entry, then do testing after, say 4 days. Or what ever period is considered acceptably safe. All is better than 14 days, no testing, and then do what you want. Because there is even a risk then that some percentage will slip through undetected. And that’s even before you factor in non compliance.
    I agree. Testing is a numbers game. If it identifies 80% of those infected allowing them to be isolated this is a very positive result. I have never understood the boffins obsession with 100% accuracy.
    I suppose the counter argument is that a person who has produced a false negative becomes an exponentially greater risk. They will feel free to act with impunity and disregard all safety measures they might otherwise have taken. Although this would still be at personal risk to themselves even not (they perceive) to others.
    Not really, they would still want to socially distance to avoid infection here. This is what was said at the press conferences. A test that was less than 100% reliable was “worse than useless “. I just think that like so many other things they got that wrong. If 80% of cases are isolated early the R rate will fall.
    It's\ not necessarily the boffins (as you implied earlier) who made that judgement about 100% reliabilkity - it could be the pols (or boffins acting as pols).

    I wonder if they are worried about being sued by people in the situation where false positive rater >> actual incidence?

    But I entirely agree with you. People who travel should accept the risk of being quarantined and stop whining, however many of them see Mediterranean holidays as some sort of right.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 6,100
    moonshine said:

    My anecdata from two different friends that were in Spain when "quarantine" measures were re-introduced is that they have no intention whatsoever of following the advice. One is already back at work in his office (for the first time since March ironically). The other intends to fly back 48 hours before the school term starts.

    What annoys me most about this government is that they insult our intelligence with the messaging. Stop playing games. Either imported cases matter, in which case stop fucking about and ban RyanAir from flying and take arrivals to central quarantine facilities. Or it doesn't matter in the grand scheme with good flight hygiene and pre-boarding testing and let people do what they want.

    It's like the country is being run by the two facets of Tyler Durden.

    Your premise is wrong, decisions on infection rates are not clear cut and categorical, they are complex and nuanced.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 31,657
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    alex_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    So the polling which shows support for the travel ban counts for nought? The mistake made was actually to allow foreign travel too soon. The public knows this which is why the vast majority were not travelling abroad this year. As suual the press opts for the cheap headline blaming the government for acting too quickly, after weeks of whining that they acted too slowly.

    Agreed. I don't give a flying f*ck about public opinion on this anyway. Governing is about doing what is right not what is popular.
    It is remarkable how what is right changes so frequently and quickly.
    In the fast moving environment of a pandemic absolutely it does.
    Not back and forth in the way that government decision making is doing.

    In any event, what we have is ‘honesty box’ quarantine, which people who are generally sensible and who will have travelled taking every precaution will generally observe, and people who are reckless and who have been careless or worse on their holiday will take no notice of whatsoever.

    Germany - which has done much better than us so far - is currently preparing to test everyone returning from areas it considers at risk. Are we doing anything so proactive? Answer on a postcard (no need to write anything on it).
    I just do not understand why the government seems so unwilling to use testing as a tool to better target measures like quarantine etc. So they don’t want to test people on arrival because apparently people may be incubating the virus but not produce positive results for a few days. But what is the risk of this? Are we talking about 1% “false negative”? Or 10%? Or 50%? It shouldn’t matter if a very low % slip through if the overall risk is acceptable - that’s risk management. 2m isn’t a “safe distance” for social distancing, it is relatively safe on the balance of risks.

    And if the risks are unacceptably high for testing on entry, then do testing after, say 4 days. Or what ever period is considered acceptably safe. All is better than 14 days, no testing, and then do what you want. Because there is even a risk then that some percentage will slip through undetected. And that’s even before you factor in non compliance.
    I agree. Testing is a numbers game. If it identifies 80% of those infected allowing them to be isolated this is a very positive result. I have never understood the boffins obsession with 100% accuracy.
    Because the 20% may turn into superspreaders if you inform them they don't have it.
    And 100% might if you don’t test.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 34,306
    moonshine said:

    My anecdata from two different friends that were in Spain when "quarantine" measures were re-introduced is that they have no intention whatsoever of following the advice. One is already back at work in his office (for the first time since March ironically). The other intends to fly back 48 hours before the school term starts.

    What annoys me most about this government is that they insult our intelligence with the messaging. Stop playing games. Either imported cases matter, in which case stop fucking about and ban RyanAir from flying and take arrivals to central quarantine facilities. Or it doesn't matter in the grand scheme with good flight hygiene and pre-boarding testing and let people do what they want.

    It's like the country is being run by the two facets of Tyler Durden.

    My first reaction on hearing the news on Spanish holiday returnees was that a lot of people would ignore the quarantine rule.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 1,083
    edited July 28
    MattW said:

    Visited my local Tesco Metro last night.

    Forgot to add the snood for the first 20 seconds. After apologising discovered that the policy is "we can't enforce it".

    I'd say the answer is "yes, they can - or at least remind". Not impressed with such sloped shoulders.

    For some reason they seem to think that nagging or banning customers over trivia is not an ideal strategy for a service industry.
  • eekeek Posts: 8,645
    edited July 28

    Barnesian said:

    "The Foreign Office later extended its travel advice, telling people to avoid all non-essential journeys to the Canary and Balearic Islands, as well as mainland Spain."

    The Canary and Balearic Islands have a lower incidence of the virus than the UK.

    "Defending the decision to extend advice against non-essential travel to the Spanish islands as well as the mainland, Local Government Minister Simon Clarke said it was taken to "minimise disruption" for travellers.

    “Clearly you do have to make decisions on a country-wide basis.
    " he said.

    This is clearly nuts. If I were holidaying in the Canaries I would go ahead and simply ignore the government's advice to self isolate for 14 days on my return with no qualms whatsover as it wouldn't increase risk.

    I'm not advising anyone. But remember that even if they collect your form and even if you have filled it in accurately nobody is going to knock on your door on day 12 to check you are at the location stated. Even if the police had the time / money to try and enforce this then know that "I went out for a shop" or "it was an emergency" are enough to avoid the fine. Which is why not a penny has been spent on enforcement.

    It is not a quarantine.

    As for the comments about Tesco enforcing masks why should a poorly paid shop worker open themselves up to more violence and abuse? They've been on the receiving end of some horrendous examples during this pandemic already. If aggressive young scrote / libertarian gammon doesn't want to wear a mask the shops aren't going to make them change their minds.
    There are a number of firms who specialise in privatisation of litter management and other things who are very money orientated because they only earn a commission from the fines.

    Were I in power all these firms would be managing the quarantine rules...

    Of course fines would need to be bigger to cover the costs but there is zero reason why the fine should be £100, £500 would more than cover any required incentive.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 551

    moonshine said:

    My anecdata from two different friends that were in Spain when "quarantine" measures were re-introduced is that they have no intention whatsoever of following the advice. One is already back at work in his office (for the first time since March ironically). The other intends to fly back 48 hours before the school term starts.

    What annoys me most about this government is that they insult our intelligence with the messaging. Stop playing games. Either imported cases matter, in which case stop fucking about and ban RyanAir from flying and take arrivals to central quarantine facilities. Or it doesn't matter in the grand scheme with good flight hygiene and pre-boarding testing and let people do what they want.

    It's like the country is being run by the two facets of Tyler Durden.

    Your premise is wrong, decisions on infection rates are not clear cut and categorical, they are complex and nuanced.
    I am not wrong. It's fine for the data to change such that what was seen as low risk is now seen as high risk. But if that's the case, how about actually doing something to counter the moral hazard from people "cheating" and behaving as they want? Such as you know, actually quarantining people under quarantine.
  • eekeek Posts: 8,645
    Scott_xP said:
    One thing that is obvious from things like that is that until we get a vaccine, you really really don't want to catch it.
Sign In or Register to comment.