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SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited July 29 in General
imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The polls suggest that whoever Biden chooses for the VP slot it will make little difference

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  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 2,523
    edited July 29
    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 27,168
    Second like Boris. If he's lucky
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 3,445
    I am not a follower of US politics, although thanks to Trump, it is hard to avoid it these days.

    Given the data above, he would be wise to pick the candidate with the most name recognition which means either Harris or Warren.
  • eekeek Posts: 8,645

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 14,546
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 2,523
    edited July 29
    A clear-cut Trump victory could have disastrous effects on American institutions, though.

    I'd hope that the American system might show its resilience if Trump tries to overstay his welcome, but of course that isn't guaranteed.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 15,264
    FTPT

    Politico.com - Louie Gohmert, who refused to wear a mask, tests positive for coronavirus

    The Texas Republican received the diagnosis during a pre-screening procedure at the White House on Wednesday morning.

    Rep. Louie Gohmert — a Texas Republican who has been walking around the Capitol without a mask — has tested positive for the coronavirus, according to multiple sources.

    Gohmert was scheduled to fly to Texas on Wednesday morning with President Donald Trump and tested positive in a pre-screen at the White House. The eighth-term Republican told CNN last month that he was not wearing a mask because he was being tested regularly for the coronavirus.

    "[I]f I get it," he told CNN in June, "you'll never see me without a mask."


    Reps. Mario Diaz Balart (R-Fla.), Neal Dunn (R-Fla.), Morgan Griffith (R-Va.), Mike Kelly (R-Pa.), Ben McAdams (D-Utah) and Tom Rice (R-S.C.) have tested positive for the virus, along with Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.).

    In May, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) turned down the administration's offer of rapid testing for the Capitol. Some lawmakers — mostly Republicans — decline to use face coverings while in the building.

    Gohmert attended Tuesday's blockbuster House Judiciary Committee hearing with Attorney General William Barr in person, where lawmakers were seated at some distance from one another.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 15,264
    In Houston Coronavrius watch there's good news and bad news.

    The Good news is over the last 3 days Houston hospitals admitted 577 Coronavirus positive patients but 691 former Cornoavrius patients left the hospital so they are no longer looking at bed shortages.

    The bad news is 12% of the people who left hospital did so by dying.

    Their overall Hospitalisation fatality rate is now 7.9% and rising 0.1% day steadily for the last 2 weeks.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 4,541
    Alistair said:
    Apparently he also waited for Barr and spoke directly to him as they walked into the room.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 55,331
    Momentous events require momentous buildup.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 74,050
    Looks like Abrams or Rice would be the best pick for Biden then in terms of winning votes
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 31,859
    Scott_xP said:

    Alistair said:
    Apparently he also waited for Barr and spoke directly to him as they walked into the room.
    So long as no-one was wearing masks, they should be safe.

    (c) Nerys Hughes, 2020
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114

    I am not a follower of US politics, although thanks to Trump, it is hard to avoid it these days.

    Given the data above, he would be wise to pick the candidate with the most name recognition which means either Harris or Warren.

    NO - whomever he picks, her name ID will go up VERY quickly.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    Alistair said:

    In Houston Coronavrius watch there's good news and bad news.

    The Good news is over the last 3 days Houston hospitals admitted 577 Coronavirus positive patients but 691 former Cornoavrius patients left the hospital so they are no longer looking at bed shortages.

    The bad news is 12% of the people who left hospital did so by dying.

    Their overall Hospitalisation fatality rate is now 7.9% and rising 0.1% day steadily for the last 2 weeks.

    Looks like the 7 day average for deaths must surely be rising again? The daily deaths do seem to be sloping up again.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 31,859
    HYUFD said:

    Looks like Abrams or Rice would be the best pick for Biden then in terms of winning votes

    Except the large number of "who the hell is this?" responses tell you that it's also a risk to choose a complete unknown.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Alistair said:
    Apparently he also waited for Barr and spoke directly to him as they walked into the room.
    So long as no-one was wearing masks, they should be safe.

    (c) Nerys Hughes, 2020
    You can't even make this up now.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    HYUFD said:

    Looks like Abrams or Rice would be the best pick for Biden then in terms of winning votes

    Again, VP name recognition is meaningless. And VP only matters sometimes, and always in very close elections (sometimes close and does NOT matter).

    "Not worth a bucket of warm piss." - that was verdict of 2-term VP John Nance Garner; he was talking about AFTER the election, but same applies BEFORE.

    Real VP imperative is: DO NO HARM
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 3,748
    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Politico.com - Louie Gohmert, who refused to wear a mask, tests positive for coronavirus

    The Texas Republican received the diagnosis during a pre-screening procedure at the White House on Wednesday morning.

    Rep. Louie Gohmert — a Texas Republican who has been walking around the Capitol without a mask — has tested positive for the coronavirus, according to multiple sources.

    Gohmert was scheduled to fly to Texas on Wednesday morning with President Donald Trump and tested positive in a pre-screen at the White House. The eighth-term Republican told CNN last month that he was not wearing a mask because he was being tested regularly for the coronavirus.

    "[I]f I get it," he told CNN in June, "you'll never see me without a mask."


    Reps. Mario Diaz Balart (R-Fla.), Neal Dunn (R-Fla.), Morgan Griffith (R-Va.), Mike Kelly (R-Pa.), Ben McAdams (D-Utah) and Tom Rice (R-S.C.) have tested positive for the virus, along with Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.).

    In May, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) turned down the administration's offer of rapid testing for the Capitol. Some lawmakers — mostly Republicans — decline to use face coverings while in the building.

    Gohmert attended Tuesday's blockbuster House Judiciary Committee hearing with Attorney General William Barr in person, where lawmakers were seated at some distance from one another.

    How to burn your sources in one easy lesson.
  • MetatronMetatron Posts: 130
    The VP could make a difference if they have baggage that their opponents can attack.I've backed and expect Susan Rice to be chosen but if Karmala Harris is picked instead it will be because of Rice publicly lying over the Benghazi affair.
    It makes it more difficult for Biden to damn Trump as dishonest.
  • eekeek Posts: 8,645

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    The stories I'm hearing about this election and Trump aren't from PB they are from various american newspapers and columnists.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 2,273
    edited July 29
    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 11,928

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    I hope you're not including me in that number. I don't want to see the US collapse, and I am sure it won't - but I don't think it would do the US or the rest of the world any harm for it not be able to operate with impunity any more.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 5,809
    Superior Court of Justice of Catalonia has allowed the reopening of cinemas and gyms and sports facilities in the Barcelona metropolitan area provided they comply with prevention measures, although they maintain restrictions for nightlife businesses

    In the face of disaster they do this!
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 324
    kle4 said:

    Momentous events require momentous buildup.
    But it´s only just started. I think Gaby Hinsliff must be a bit dim.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 11,928

    I am not a follower of US politics, although thanks to Trump, it is hard to avoid it these days.

    Given the data above, he would be wise to pick the candidate with the most name recognition which means either Harris or Warren.

    NO - whomever he picks, her name ID will go up VERY quickly.
    The best policy would be to pick the best person for the job. This triangulation of 'I'm wizened so they have to be young, 'I'm male so they have to be female', 'I'm white so they have to be black', 'I'm popular with hispanics so they have to be popular with Koreans' is not only horribly patronising, it's also going to result in a poor candidate with a big list of things they aren't, but very little that they are.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 23,049
    Metatron said:

    The VP could make a difference if they have baggage that their opponents can attack.I've backed and expect Susan Rice to be chosen but if Karmala Harris is picked instead it will be because of Rice publicly lying over the Benghazi affair.
    It makes it more difficult for Biden to damn Trump as dishonest.

    He could pick Lucrezia Borgia, and that really wouldn’t be a problem.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    Washington State August 2020 Primary

    King County (Seattle + east & south burbs) ballot returns
    as of noon Wednesday, 7.29 (PDay -6)
    > 210,687 = 15.5% of total active voter registration = 1.4 million
    > note that four years ago at PD-6, King Co returns were 11.1% of active reg
    > further note that in this election (as this fall) return postage for election ballots is pre-paid; this was NOT the case in 2016.

    My own feeling is that turnout will be slightly higher than August 2016, but not a much as above numbers might suggest. BECAUSE four years ago there were folks who had marked the ballots BUT were still hunting around for a stamp - NOT an impediment this year.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    Nigelb said:

    Metatron said:

    The VP could make a difference if they have baggage that their opponents can attack.I've backed and expect Susan Rice to be chosen but if Karmala Harris is picked instead it will be because of Rice publicly lying over the Benghazi affair.
    It makes it more difficult for Biden to damn Trump as dishonest.

    He could pick Lucrezia Borgia, and that really wouldn’t be a problem.
    He'd have managed to pick someone even older and more lifeless than he is, which would be an achievement.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 23,049

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Alistair said:
    Apparently he also waited for Barr and spoke directly to him as they walked into the room.
    So long as no-one was wearing masks, they should be safe.

    (c) Nerys Hughes, 2020
    You can't even make this up now.

    I think he caught it from that table he kept banging.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 55,331
    Nigelb said:

    Metatron said:

    The VP could make a difference if they have baggage that their opponents can attack.I've backed and expect Susan Rice to be chosen but if Karmala Harris is picked instead it will be because of Rice publicly lying over the Benghazi affair.
    It makes it more difficult for Biden to damn Trump as dishonest.

    He could pick Lucrezia Borgia, and that really wouldn’t be a problem.
    Electorally maybe, but I think it would be at least a small problem.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 953

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    I suspect most already think US democracy has been more notable for its abscence over the years when you consider all the voter suppression and gerry mandering that goes on.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114

    I am not a follower of US politics, although thanks to Trump, it is hard to avoid it these days.

    Given the data above, he would be wise to pick the candidate with the most name recognition which means either Harris or Warren.

    NO - whomever he picks, her name ID will go up VERY quickly.
    The best policy would be to pick the best person for the job. This triangulation of 'I'm wizened so they have to be young, 'I'm male so they have to be female', 'I'm white so they have to be black', 'I'm popular with hispanics so they have to be popular with Koreans' is not only horribly patronising, it's also going to result in a poor candidate with a big list of things they aren't, but very little that they are.
    Picking "best person" is NOT as clear-cut as you might think. Especially since some folks who look great on paper for the Presidency or Vice Presidency (John Q. Adams & Herbert Hoover, Henry Wallace & Dick Cheney spring to mind) turn out to be BAD choices.

    The Peter Principle is real deal - most especially in politics.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    I hope you're not including me in that number. I don't want to see the US collapse, and I am sure it won't - but I don't think it would do the US or the rest of the world any harm for it not be able to operate with impunity any more.
    "Absolute power corrupts absolutely." - Lord Acton

    Which is why Empires are inherently evil, or at very least are on the road to hell UNLESS they can (or are forced to) change their ways.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 6,454
    edited July 29
    "The voters who are still backing Trump"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/29/opinions/swing-voters-midwest-trump-support-thau/index.html

    "And, each month for the past 17 months, I've had a unique window into the Americans largely responsible for giving the president his slim Electoral College victory: so-called "Obama-Trump" swing voters across the upper Midwest.
    Our Swing Voter Project has uncovered that many of these people, who live in places such as Canton, Ohio; Davenport, Iowa; Erie, Pennsylvania; and Macomb County, Michigan, prefer Trump over Biden. In fact, 22 of 33 respondents in these four most recent locations feel this way."
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 11,928
    edited July 29

    I am not a follower of US politics, although thanks to Trump, it is hard to avoid it these days.

    Given the data above, he would be wise to pick the candidate with the most name recognition which means either Harris or Warren.

    NO - whomever he picks, her name ID will go up VERY quickly.
    The best policy would be to pick the best person for the job. This triangulation of 'I'm wizened so they have to be young, 'I'm male so they have to be female', 'I'm white so they have to be black', 'I'm popular with hispanics so they have to be popular with Koreans' is not only horribly patronising, it's also going to result in a poor candidate with a big list of things they aren't, but very little that they are.
    Picking "best person" is NOT as clear-cut as you might think. Especially since some folks who look great on paper for the Presidency or Vice Presidency (John Q. Adams & Herbert Hoover, Henry Wallace & Dick Cheney spring to mind) turn out to be BAD choices.

    The Peter Principle is real deal - most especially in politics.
    I am sure that's a very valid point, but you're surely more likely to pick a good'un if your choice isn't between the two survivors of your triangulation process.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    eek said:

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    The stories I'm hearing about this election and Trump aren't from PB they are from various american newspapers and columnists.
    Who are paid to write hot copy, whether it's for tabloid or toff press. Predicting chaos sells more papers than NOT predicting chaos. Journalism 101
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 23,049

    I am not a follower of US politics, although thanks to Trump, it is hard to avoid it these days.

    Given the data above, he would be wise to pick the candidate with the most name recognition which means either Harris or Warren.

    NO - whomever he picks, her name ID will go up VERY quickly.
    The best policy would be to pick the best person for the job. This triangulation of 'I'm wizened so they have to be young, 'I'm male so they have to be female', 'I'm white so they have to be black', 'I'm popular with hispanics so they have to be popular with Koreans' is not only horribly patronising, it's also going to result in a poor candidate with a big list of things they aren't, but very little that they are.
    Picking "best person" is NOT as clear-cut as you might think. Especially since some folks who look great on paper for the Presidency or Vice Presidency (John Q. Adams & Herbert Hoover, Henry Wallace & Dick Cheney spring to mind) turn out to be BAD choices.

    The Peter Principle is real deal - most especially in politics.
    Dick Cheney ever looked good ?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 11,928

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    I hope you're not including me in that number. I don't want to see the US collapse, and I am sure it won't - but I don't think it would do the US or the rest of the world any harm for it not be able to operate with impunity any more.
    "Absolute power corrupts absolutely." - Lord Acton

    Which is why Empires are inherently evil, or at very least are on the road to hell UNLESS they can (or are forced to) change their ways.
    Indeed.

    'Those who attempt to rise above nature invariably fall beneath it'.

    Sherlock Holmes. :D

    Nothing to do with your quote, it just reminded me of it for some reason.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 15,264
    Andy_JS said:

    "The voters who are still backing Trump"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/29/opinions/swing-voters-midwest-trump-support-thau/index.html

    "And, each month for the past 17 months, I've had a unique window into the Americans largely responsible for giving the president his slim Electoral College victory: so-called "Obama-Trump" swing voters across the upper Midwest.
    Our Swing Voter Project has uncovered that many of these people, who live in places such as Canton, Ohio; Davenport, Iowa; Erie, Pennsylvania; and Macomb County, Michigan, prefer Trump over Biden. In fact, 22 of 33 respondents in these four most recent locations feel this way."

    Trump needs that to be 28 of 33
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 23,049
    Andy_JS said:

    "The voters who are still backing Trump"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/29/opinions/swing-voters-midwest-trump-support-thau/index.html

    "And, each month for the past 17 months, I've had a unique window into the Americans largely responsible for giving the president his slim Electoral College victory: so-called "Obama-Trump" swing voters across the upper Midwest.
    Our Swing Voter Project has uncovered that many of these people, who live in places such as Canton, Ohio; Davenport, Iowa; Erie, Pennsylvania; and Macomb County, Michigan, prefer Trump over Biden. In fact, 22 of 33 respondents in these four most recent locations feel this way."

    That’s literally 33 respondents ?
    Not the most statistically significant sample (& your link is labelled an opinion piece rather than news).
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 5,809
    Sky news suggesting Spain’s increase in infections could be because of inbound tourism!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    Pagan2 said:

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    I suspect most already think US democracy has been more notable for its abscence over the years when you consider all the voter suppression and gerry mandering that goes on.
    US vote suppression is a problem BUT is also WAY overblown, often for political reasons but mostly due to Democratic distrust following 2000. For example, turns out lot of "suppression" occurs in jurisdictions where voting is controlled by & large by Democrats.

    As for gerrymandering, well, UK's version is more decorous, perhaps, but not non-political or non-partisan, not by a long shot.

    Re: gerrymandering, note that WA State decades ago adopted a Redistrict Commission system, to take the process out of the direct control of the legislature and thus whomever controlled it.

    Under WA state law, Redistricting Commission is created after every census, with one voting member from each legislative caucus (state house & senate Dems & Reps) with non-voting chair. Result is incumbent protection, with a handful of legislative & congressional districts contested, rest safe for one party or the other.

    Of course over time demographic, economic, political, electoral trends will re-shape this status quo. BUT the redistricting process itself is still controlled - albeit indirectly - by the legislature, but by leader of both parties in (more or less) concert.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 34,306
    Andy_JS said:

    "The voters who are still backing Trump"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/29/opinions/swing-voters-midwest-trump-support-thau/index.html

    "And, each month for the past 17 months, I've had a unique window into the Americans largely responsible for giving the president his slim Electoral College victory: so-called "Obama-Trump" swing voters across the upper Midwest.
    Our Swing Voter Project has uncovered that many of these people, who live in places such as Canton, Ohio; Davenport, Iowa; Erie, Pennsylvania; and Macomb County, Michigan, prefer Trump over Biden. In fact, 22 of 33 respondents in these four most recent locations feel this way."

    "They conflate the Black Lives Matter protesters with the rioters attacking federal buildings and retail shops. They don't want historic monuments torn down. And they dismiss defunding the police as ridiculous."

    The Left playing right into Trump's hands. They should shut the f up until late November.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 34,306
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Alistair said:
    Apparently he also waited for Barr and spoke directly to him as they walked into the room.
    So long as no-one was wearing masks, they should be safe.

    (c) Nerys Hughes, 2020
    You can't even make this up now.

    I think he caught it from that table he kept banging.
    What's his view on alien lizards running the world banking system?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    Nigelb said:

    I am not a follower of US politics, although thanks to Trump, it is hard to avoid it these days.

    Given the data above, he would be wise to pick the candidate with the most name recognition which means either Harris or Warren.

    NO - whomever he picks, her name ID will go up VERY quickly.
    The best policy would be to pick the best person for the job. This triangulation of 'I'm wizened so they have to be young, 'I'm male so they have to be female', 'I'm white so they have to be black', 'I'm popular with hispanics so they have to be popular with Koreans' is not only horribly patronising, it's also going to result in a poor candidate with a big list of things they aren't, but very little that they are.
    Picking "best person" is NOT as clear-cut as you might think. Especially since some folks who look great on paper for the Presidency or Vice Presidency (John Q. Adams & Herbert Hoover, Henry Wallace & Dick Cheney spring to mind) turn out to be BAD choices.

    The Peter Principle is real deal - most especially in politics.
    Dick Cheney ever looked good ?
    Only IF you squinted AND got drunk first - was trying to be non-partisan!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 34,306
    Scott_xP said:
    Surely there's a room in the White House with on tap bleach?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 34,306
    Interesting numbers in the header, but takes no account of the home state factor.

    Although I suspect Biden wont worry about that this year.
  • felixfelix Posts: 10,709
    nichomar said:

    Sky news suggesting Spain’s increase in infections could be because of inbound tourism!

    Is there a shred of evidence for that? None of the detail I've seen could begin to explain it.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 1,672
    Andy_JS said:

    "The voters who are still backing Trump"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/29/opinions/swing-voters-midwest-trump-support-thau/index.html

    "And, each month for the past 17 months, I've had a unique window into the Americans largely responsible for giving the president his slim Electoral College victory: so-called "Obama-Trump" swing voters across the upper Midwest.
    Our Swing Voter Project has uncovered that many of these people, who live in places such as Canton, Ohio; Davenport, Iowa; Erie, Pennsylvania; and Macomb County, Michigan, prefer Trump over Biden. In fact, 22 of 33 respondents in these four most recent locations feel this way."

    So a third of the voters who preferred Trump to Obama now prefer Biden?
    Ridiculously small sample of course.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 1,672
    I can imagine some corners of the twittersphere going crazy if he, literally, picks a "Karen".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 23,049
    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    It’s possible it could be messy, but that really would not be worse that a Trump second term.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,084
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The voters who are still backing Trump"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/29/opinions/swing-voters-midwest-trump-support-thau/index.html

    "And, each month for the past 17 months, I've had a unique window into the Americans largely responsible for giving the president his slim Electoral College victory: so-called "Obama-Trump" swing voters across the upper Midwest.
    Our Swing Voter Project has uncovered that many of these people, who live in places such as Canton, Ohio; Davenport, Iowa; Erie, Pennsylvania; and Macomb County, Michigan, prefer Trump over Biden. In fact, 22 of 33 respondents in these four most recent locations feel this way."

    That’s literally 33 respondents ?
    Not the most statistically significant sample (& your link is labelled an opinion piece rather than news).
    Plus losing a third of his swing voters doesn't sound like good news for Trump.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 34,306
    A new poll finds President Trump and Democratic rival Joe Biden tied in Georgia, a traditionally red state that has not gone for the Democratic presidential nominee since 1992.

    The latest Monmouth University survey finds Trump and Biden each at 47 percent support, with 3 percent supporting Libertarian Jo Jorgensen and 3 percent undecided.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/509547-trump-and-biden-tied-in-georgia-poll
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 953

    Pagan2 said:

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    I suspect most already think US democracy has been more notable for its abscence over the years when you consider all the voter suppression and gerry mandering that goes on.
    US vote suppression is a problem BUT is also WAY overblown, often for political reasons but mostly due to Democratic distrust following 2000. For example, turns out lot of "suppression" occurs in jurisdictions where voting is controlled by & large by Democrats.

    As for gerrymandering, well, UK's version is more decorous, perhaps, but not non-political or non-partisan, not by a long shot.

    Re: gerrymandering, note that WA State decades ago adopted a Redistrict Commission system, to take the process out of the direct control of the legislature and thus whomever controlled it.

    Under WA state law, Redistricting Commission is created after every census, with one voting member from each legislative caucus (state house & senate Dems & Reps) with non-voting chair. Result is incumbent protection, with a handful of legislative & congressional districts contested, rest safe for one party or the other.

    Of course over time demographic, economic, political, electoral trends will re-shape this status quo. BUT the redistricting process itself is still controlled - albeit indirectly - by the legislature, but by leader of both parties in (more or less) concert.
    Don't just take my opinion for it
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 5,809
    felix said:

    nichomar said:

    Sky news suggesting Spain’s increase in infections could be because of inbound tourism!

    Is there a shred of evidence for that? None of the detail I've seen could begin to explain it.
    The justification was there was a lot of inbound tourism in Spain and other countries no science involved, was not listening closely. Going to be ultra careful for next six weeks with the Madrid invasion due, todays birthday lunch last large gathering, no Chinese or Spanish restaurants and supermarket shopping at 3pm the quietest time. Can’t avoid the hospital but it’s a controlled environment.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114

    Andy_JS said:

    "The voters who are still backing Trump"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/29/opinions/swing-voters-midwest-trump-support-thau/index.html

    "And, each month for the past 17 months, I've had a unique window into the Americans largely responsible for giving the president his slim Electoral College victory: so-called "Obama-Trump" swing voters across the upper Midwest.
    Our Swing Voter Project has uncovered that many of these people, who live in places such as Canton, Ohio; Davenport, Iowa; Erie, Pennsylvania; and Macomb County, Michigan, prefer Trump over Biden. In fact, 22 of 33 respondents in these four most recent locations feel this way."

    So a third of the voters who preferred Trump to Obama now prefer Biden?
    Ridiculously small sample of course.
    Some evidence of three things (at least) happening at once:

    1. Suburban, college-educated Republicans & Rep leaners who voted Trump 2016 planning to vote Biden 2020

    2. Never Trumpers, mostly Republican also conservative Libertarians & Independents who did NOT vote Trump OR Clinton in 2016, planning to vote for Biden 2020.

    3. Rural, exurban, blue-collar, rust-belt traditional Democratic voters who voted Trump in 2016 but planning to vote Biden 2020.

    Very strong evidence for #1 and pretty strong for #2; less strong for #3 and clearly this movement will NOT be as large as #1; but could make difference in number of battle-ground states such as MI, PA, WI.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 23,049

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Alistair said:
    Apparently he also waited for Barr and spoke directly to him as they walked into the room.
    So long as no-one was wearing masks, they should be safe.

    (c) Nerys Hughes, 2020
    You can't even make this up now.

    I think he caught it from that table he kept banging.
    What's his view on alien lizards running the world banking system?
    Probably in favour.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    I suspect most already think US democracy has been more notable for its abscence over the years when you consider all the voter suppression and gerry mandering that goes on.
    US vote suppression is a problem BUT is also WAY overblown, often for political reasons but mostly due to Democratic distrust following 2000. For example, turns out lot of "suppression" occurs in jurisdictions where voting is controlled by & large by Democrats.

    As for gerrymandering, well, UK's version is more decorous, perhaps, but not non-political or non-partisan, not by a long shot.

    Re: gerrymandering, note that WA State decades ago adopted a Redistrict Commission system, to take the process out of the direct control of the legislature and thus whomever controlled it.

    Under WA state law, Redistricting Commission is created after every census, with one voting member from each legislative caucus (state house & senate Dems & Reps) with non-voting chair. Result is incumbent protection, with a handful of legislative & congressional districts contested, rest safe for one party or the other.

    Of course over time demographic, economic, political, electoral trends will re-shape this status quo. BUT the redistricting process itself is still controlled - albeit indirectly - by the legislature, but by leader of both parties in (more or less) concert.
    Don't just take my opinion for it
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
    Wasn't planning to! But please note, have my own sources of info on this topic.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 5,759
    Hmmmmm.

    I've been having a look at the ONS data from - https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/datasets/deathregistrationsandoccurrencesbylocalauthorityandhealthboard

    According to them, COVID19 deaths, all settings, England -

    Week 28 (ends 10th July) - 344
    Week 29 (ends 17th July) - 284

    Contrasted with https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

    PHE, COVID19 deaths, all settings, England -

    Week 28 (ends 10th July) - 511
    Week 29 (ends 17th July) - 381

    Only got the data for PHE for those two weeks - by day of death. But it looks like a 30% difference.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 465
    Given the doubts over Biden's mental state and the assumption he will only do one term his VP pick in all likelihood will be his successor (perhaps even before 2024) which will surely be the most important consideration.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 7,088
    Evening all :)

    A busy night for US polling - the daily Rasmussen approval still has Trump at -9 but it's better than many of the other polls.

    The national numbers with Rasmussen put Biden up 48-42 and CNBC has Biden up 51-42. No meaningful crosstabs while Economist/YouGov keeps Biden ahead by 49-40.

    The crosstabs look similar to last week:

    https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/0nx7ztz02j/econTabReport.pdf

    Biden leads by a point among men but 14 among women. The $50k -$100k income group has Trump up 47-45 but Biden is well ahead in other income groups.

    Huge leads for Biden in the North East and West - he's also seven points up in the Midwest (49-42) and a point up in the South (46-45).

    That runs a bit contrary to the CNN story claiming the Midwest was swinging back behind Trump - it's possible for all the claims about "shy Trump" supporters, the truth is they are a diminishing but increasingly vociferous minority.

    The enthusiasm for their man is plainly evident but the numbers may not be and given the tiny margins by which Trump carried some states last time he cannot afford any significant diminishing of his base.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 953

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    I suspect most already think US democracy has been more notable for its abscence over the years when you consider all the voter suppression and gerry mandering that goes on.
    US vote suppression is a problem BUT is also WAY overblown, often for political reasons but mostly due to Democratic distrust following 2000. For example, turns out lot of "suppression" occurs in jurisdictions where voting is controlled by & large by Democrats.

    As for gerrymandering, well, UK's version is more decorous, perhaps, but not non-political or non-partisan, not by a long shot.

    Re: gerrymandering, note that WA State decades ago adopted a Redistrict Commission system, to take the process out of the direct control of the legislature and thus whomever controlled it.

    Under WA state law, Redistricting Commission is created after every census, with one voting member from each legislative caucus (state house & senate Dems & Reps) with non-voting chair. Result is incumbent protection, with a handful of legislative & congressional districts contested, rest safe for one party or the other.

    Of course over time demographic, economic, political, electoral trends will re-shape this status quo. BUT the redistricting process itself is still controlled - albeit indirectly - by the legislature, but by leader of both parties in (more or less) concert.
    Don't just take my opinion for it
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
    Wasn't planning to! But please note, have my own sources of info on this topic.
    And the democracy index I linked is pretty widely respected and probably has a better oversight than a partisan shill.

    How can you call out the uk when things like this happen

    "The blend of federal agents -- drawn from the CBP, US Marshals Service, and ICE -- rolled onto the streets in unmarked vehicles. Out of these vehicles sprang agents dressed like soldiers, wearing no markings clearly identifying the officers or the agency they represented. Residents were taken off the street to unknown locations for questioning. They were later released and given no paperwork that informed them who had detained them or for what reason."

    And your government tries to defend it in court. When it happens in places like China we denounce that sort of thing.

    source of quote
    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200724/14025644974/court-blocks-federal-officers-attacking-arresting-reporters-covering-protests-portland.shtml

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 55,331
    edited July 29

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Alistair said:
    Apparently he also waited for Barr and spoke directly to him as they walked into the room.
    So long as no-one was wearing masks, they should be safe.

    (c) Nerys Hughes, 2020
    You can't even make this up now.

    I think he caught it from that table he kept banging.
    What's his view on alien lizards running the world banking system?
    Well I think they do a damn good job of it.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 7,088
    To follow on from tonight's poll, a quick look back at the late Tuesday numbers from Maine which has only 4 EC votes but are split.

    The state wide number has Biden up by 12 (Clinton won it by 3 last time). Clinton won ME-1 by 15 and Biden is up by 20 while Trump won ME-2 by 11 and now Biden is up by three.

    In Washington State, Trump has turned a 16-point deficit into a 34-point deficit.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 5,759

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114

    A new poll finds President Trump and Democratic rival Joe Biden tied in Georgia, a traditionally red state that has not gone for the Democratic presidential nominee since 1992.

    The latest Monmouth University survey finds Trump and Biden each at 47 percent support, with 3 percent supporting Libertarian Jo Jorgensen and 3 percent undecided.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/509547-trump-and-biden-tied-in-georgia-poll

    One major question for Biden campaign is, what percent of resources (esp. money) to put into GA and similar states beyond the obvious battleground states?

    Expanding the map makes Trumpsky & GOP fight on more fronts, but also risks diluting Biden's resources - just ask Hillary, 1n 2016 she wasted time & money on Texas that would have been MUCH better spent in Wisconsin.

    Whatever strategic decision Uncle Joe makes, methinks that close presidential race is good news for Democratic US Senate challenger Jon Ossoff, running to unseat incumbent Republican David Perdue.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 2,252
    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    Politico.com - Louie Gohmert, who refused to wear a mask, tests positive for coronavirus

    The Texas Republican received the diagnosis during a pre-screening procedure at the White House on Wednesday morning.

    Rep. Louie Gohmert — a Texas Republican who has been walking around the Capitol without a mask — has tested positive for the coronavirus, according to multiple sources.

    Gohmert was scheduled to fly to Texas on Wednesday morning with President Donald Trump and tested positive in a pre-screen at the White House. The eighth-term Republican told CNN last month that he was not wearing a mask because he was being tested regularly for the coronavirus.

    "[I]f I get it," he told CNN in June, "you'll never see me without a mask."


    Reps. Mario Diaz Balart (R-Fla.), Neal Dunn (R-Fla.), Morgan Griffith (R-Va.), Mike Kelly (R-Pa.), Ben McAdams (D-Utah) and Tom Rice (R-S.C.) have tested positive for the virus, along with Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.).

    In May, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) turned down the administration's offer of rapid testing for the Capitol. Some lawmakers — mostly Republicans — decline to use face coverings while in the building.

    Gohmert attended Tuesday's blockbuster House Judiciary Committee hearing with Attorney General William Barr in person, where lawmakers were seated at some distance from one another.

    I understand he has been very keen on his freedom to infect others (their freedom to remain uninfected or to choose to try to avoid infecting others - not so much; reports of him giving his staff and interns grief if they tried to wear masks indicate this). Looks like he managed to exercise his own freedom wholeheartedly.
    Some people always believe their own freedom to swing their fist does NOT end at someone else’s face after all.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 34,831
    felix said:

    nichomar said:

    Sky news suggesting Spain’s increase in infections could be because of inbound tourism!

    Is there a shred of evidence for that? None of the detail I've seen could begin to explain it.
    There isn't a shred of evience that holidaying in Spain is safer than holidaying in the UK either. Didn't stop the Spanish PM claiming it though.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 34,306
    dodrade said:

    Given the doubts over Biden's mental state and the assumption he will only do one term his VP pick in all likelihood will be his successor (perhaps even before 2024) which will surely be the most important consideration.

    But that is predicated on Biden winning, so you are back to trying to pick a veep who will help a win.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,149
    Off topic.

    I had nothing to do the other day. So I thought - I know what I can do! Unsubscribe from all those emails I get that I don’t want, don’t read and don’t know why I even receive them. So I did it. And it worked. No more unsolicited emails. They’ve stopped.

    Now I’ve got even less to do ....
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    I suspect most already think US democracy has been more notable for its abscence over the years when you consider all the voter suppression and gerry mandering that goes on.
    US vote suppression is a problem BUT is also WAY overblown, often for political reasons but mostly due to Democratic distrust following 2000. For example, turns out lot of "suppression" occurs in jurisdictions where voting is controlled by & large by Democrats.

    As for gerrymandering, well, UK's version is more decorous, perhaps, but not non-political or non-partisan, not by a long shot.

    Re: gerrymandering, note that WA State decades ago adopted a Redistrict Commission system, to take the process out of the direct control of the legislature and thus whomever controlled it.

    Under WA state law, Redistricting Commission is created after every census, with one voting member from each legislative caucus (state house & senate Dems & Reps) with non-voting chair. Result is incumbent protection, with a handful of legislative & congressional districts contested, rest safe for one party or the other.

    Of course over time demographic, economic, political, electoral trends will re-shape this status quo. BUT the redistricting process itself is still controlled - albeit indirectly - by the legislature, but by leader of both parties in (more or less) concert.
    Don't just take my opinion for it
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
    Wasn't planning to! But please note, have my own sources of info on this topic.
    And the democracy index I linked is pretty widely respected and probably has a better oversight than a partisan shill.

    How can you call out the uk when things like this happen

    "The blend of federal agents -- drawn from the CBP, US Marshals Service, and ICE -- rolled onto the streets in unmarked vehicles. Out of these vehicles sprang agents dressed like soldiers, wearing no markings clearly identifying the officers or the agency they represented. Residents were taken off the street to unknown locations for questioning. They were later released and given no paperwork that informed them who had detained them or for what reason."

    And your government tries to defend it in court. When it happens in places like China we denounce that sort of thing.

    source of quote
    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200724/14025644974/court-blocks-federal-officers-attacking-arresting-reporters-covering-protests-portland.shtml

    May be a shill - or rather a hack - but yours truly shills/hacks for the DEMOCRATS. It ain't MY government, bub - it's Trumpsky's

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    stjohn said:

    Off topic.

    I had nothing to do the other day. So I thought - I know what I can do! Unsubscribe from all those emails I get that I don’t want, don’t read and don’t know why I even receive them. So I did it. And it worked. No more unsolicited emails. They’ve stopped.

    Now I’ve got even less to do ....

    Talk about being hoisted on yer own petard!
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,149

    stjohn said:

    Off topic.

    I had nothing to do the other day. So I thought - I know what I can do! Unsubscribe from all those emails I get that I don’t want, don’t read and don’t know why I even receive them. So I did it. And it worked. No more unsolicited emails. They’ve stopped.

    Now I’ve got even less to do ....

    Talk about being hoisted on yer own petard!
    Funnily enough, my next job is to sort out the fireworks box in the cellar. Where’s my lighter?
  • glwglw Posts: 6,410

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 923

    Andy_JS said:

    "The voters who are still backing Trump"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/29/opinions/swing-voters-midwest-trump-support-thau/index.html

    "And, each month for the past 17 months, I've had a unique window into the Americans largely responsible for giving the president his slim Electoral College victory: so-called "Obama-Trump" swing voters across the upper Midwest.
    Our Swing Voter Project has uncovered that many of these people, who live in places such as Canton, Ohio; Davenport, Iowa; Erie, Pennsylvania; and Macomb County, Michigan, prefer Trump over Biden. In fact, 22 of 33 respondents in these four most recent locations feel this way."

    "They conflate the Black Lives Matter protesters with the rioters attacking federal buildings and retail shops. They don't want historic monuments torn down. And they dismiss defunding the police as ridiculous."

    The Left playing right into Trump's hands. They should shut the f up until late November.
    Drinks with a 50-something Remainer swing voter. Generally centre-Left. Considerable loathing for Official BLM. Absolute loathing for unvoted statue toppling. I did not ask for an opinion, it was presented.

    I wonder how much of this is supporting the Tory vote. Brits do not like mayhem.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 27,168

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    Dissolving back into the russian money that helped pay for it would be remarkable indeed.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 27,168
    edited July 29
    The US’s population-adjusted CV death rate has today overtaken that of France.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 923
    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 953

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    I suspect most already think US democracy has been more notable for its abscence over the years when you consider all the voter suppression and gerry mandering that goes on.
    US vote suppression is a problem BUT is also WAY overblown, often for political reasons but mostly due to Democratic distrust following 2000. For example, turns out lot of "suppression" occurs in jurisdictions where voting is controlled by & large by Democrats.

    As for gerrymandering, well, UK's version is more decorous, perhaps, but not non-political or non-partisan, not by a long shot.

    Re: gerrymandering, note that WA State decades ago adopted a Redistrict Commission system, to take the process out of the direct control of the legislature and thus whomever controlled it.

    Under WA state law, Redistricting Commission is created after every census, with one voting member from each legislative caucus (state house & senate Dems & Reps) with non-voting chair. Result is incumbent protection, with a handful of legislative & congressional districts contested, rest safe for one party or the other.

    Of course over time demographic, economic, political, electoral trends will re-shape this status quo. BUT the redistricting process itself is still controlled - albeit indirectly - by the legislature, but by leader of both parties in (more or less) concert.
    Don't just take my opinion for it
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
    Wasn't planning to! But please note, have my own sources of info on this topic.
    And the democracy index I linked is pretty widely respected and probably has a better oversight than a partisan shill.

    How can you call out the uk when things like this happen

    "The blend of federal agents -- drawn from the CBP, US Marshals Service, and ICE -- rolled onto the streets in unmarked vehicles. Out of these vehicles sprang agents dressed like soldiers, wearing no markings clearly identifying the officers or the agency they represented. Residents were taken off the street to unknown locations for questioning. They were later released and given no paperwork that informed them who had detained them or for what reason."

    And your government tries to defend it in court. When it happens in places like China we denounce that sort of thing.

    source of quote
    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200724/14025644974/court-blocks-federal-officers-attacking-arresting-reporters-covering-protests-portland.shtml

    May be a shill - or rather a hack - but yours truly shills/hacks for the DEMOCRATS. It ain't MY government, bub - it's Trumpsky's

    Ah I see like under Obama who I was believe from your side of the fence who when taking office the USA was sitting at rank 20 of the world index of press freedom and during his tenure managed to help that slide to 41 by his actions against press freedoms....those democrats .

    The world press index is compiled by Reporters without borders as no doubt you will want to cast aspersions on their credibility
  • EPGEPG Posts: 3,538
    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The voters who are still backing Trump"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/29/opinions/swing-voters-midwest-trump-support-thau/index.html

    "And, each month for the past 17 months, I've had a unique window into the Americans largely responsible for giving the president his slim Electoral College victory: so-called "Obama-Trump" swing voters across the upper Midwest.
    Our Swing Voter Project has uncovered that many of these people, who live in places such as Canton, Ohio; Davenport, Iowa; Erie, Pennsylvania; and Macomb County, Michigan, prefer Trump over Biden. In fact, 22 of 33 respondents in these four most recent locations feel this way."

    "They conflate the Black Lives Matter protesters with the rioters attacking federal buildings and retail shops. They don't want historic monuments torn down. And they dismiss defunding the police as ridiculous."

    The Left playing right into Trump's hands. They should shut the f up until late November.
    Drinks with a 50-something Remainer swing voter. Generally centre-Left. Considerable loathing for Official BLM. Absolute loathing for unvoted statue toppling. I did not ask for an opinion, it was presented.

    I wonder how much of this is supporting the Tory vote. Brits do not like mayhem.
    The 50-something left-wing remainer who hates BLM is another great character. Are they also a Cornish yachtsman with a meth lab?
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,149
    edited July 29
    Re: Quarantining post travel.

    Why don’t they test twice, as proposed - but only give tested individuals their two test results after the 2nd test?

    That gets around the issue of failed compliance and false reassurance from a single, initial negative test.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    I suspect most already think US democracy has been more notable for its abscence over the years when you consider all the voter suppression and gerry mandering that goes on.
    US vote suppression is a problem BUT is also WAY overblown, often for political reasons but mostly due to Democratic distrust following 2000. For example, turns out lot of "suppression" occurs in jurisdictions where voting is controlled by & large by Democrats.

    As for gerrymandering, well, UK's version is more decorous, perhaps, but not non-political or non-partisan, not by a long shot.

    Re: gerrymandering, note that WA State decades ago adopted a Redistrict Commission system, to take the process out of the direct control of the legislature and thus whomever controlled it.

    Under WA state law, Redistricting Commission is created after every census, with one voting member from each legislative caucus (state house & senate Dems & Reps) with non-voting chair. Result is incumbent protection, with a handful of legislative & congressional districts contested, rest safe for one party or the other.

    Of course over time demographic, economic, political, electoral trends will re-shape this status quo. BUT the redistricting process itself is still controlled - albeit indirectly - by the legislature, but by leader of both parties in (more or less) concert.
    Don't just take my opinion for it
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
    Wasn't planning to! But please note, have my own sources of info on this topic.
    And the democracy index I linked is pretty widely respected and probably has a better oversight than a partisan shill.

    How can you call out the uk when things like this happen

    "The blend of federal agents -- drawn from the CBP, US Marshals Service, and ICE -- rolled onto the streets in unmarked vehicles. Out of these vehicles sprang agents dressed like soldiers, wearing no markings clearly identifying the officers or the agency they represented. Residents were taken off the street to unknown locations for questioning. They were later released and given no paperwork that informed them who had detained them or for what reason."

    And your government tries to defend it in court. When it happens in places like China we denounce that sort of thing.

    source of quote
    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200724/14025644974/court-blocks-federal-officers-attacking-arresting-reporters-covering-protests-portland.shtml

    May be a shill - or rather a hack - but yours truly shills/hacks for the DEMOCRATS. It ain't MY government, bub - it's Trumpsky's

    Ah I see like under Obama who I was believe from your side of the fence who when taking office the USA was sitting at rank 20 of the world index of press freedom and during his tenure managed to help that slide to 41 by his actions against press freedoms....those democrats .

    The world press index is compiled by Reporters without borders as no doubt you will want to cast aspersions on their credibility
    Look at the specific points I made. Which are based on personal experience NOT surfing the web.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 28,710
    eek said:

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    The stories I'm hearing about this election and Trump aren't from PB they are from various american newspapers and columnists.
    My wife’s observation action last night was that she is surprised by the number of people she meets that talk positively about Trump. She’s worrying she might have to vote Democrat to make up for it.

    (I saw 2 people in MAGA face masks yesterday...)
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 923
    EPG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The voters who are still backing Trump"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/29/opinions/swing-voters-midwest-trump-support-thau/index.html

    "And, each month for the past 17 months, I've had a unique window into the Americans largely responsible for giving the president his slim Electoral College victory: so-called "Obama-Trump" swing voters across the upper Midwest.
    Our Swing Voter Project has uncovered that many of these people, who live in places such as Canton, Ohio; Davenport, Iowa; Erie, Pennsylvania; and Macomb County, Michigan, prefer Trump over Biden. In fact, 22 of 33 respondents in these four most recent locations feel this way."

    "They conflate the Black Lives Matter protesters with the rioters attacking federal buildings and retail shops. They don't want historic monuments torn down. And they dismiss defunding the police as ridiculous."

    The Left playing right into Trump's hands. They should shut the f up until late November.
    Drinks with a 50-something Remainer swing voter. Generally centre-Left. Considerable loathing for Official BLM. Absolute loathing for unvoted statue toppling. I did not ask for an opinion, it was presented.

    I wonder how much of this is supporting the Tory vote. Brits do not like mayhem.
    The 50-something left-wing remainer who hates BLM is another great character. Are they also a Cornish yachtsman with a meth lab?
    You can ignore them if you like, but these people VOTE.

    For what it is worth he works in musical theatre and lives in SE London. He doesn't "hate BLM", he hates the Official BLM - and for good reason: they are avowed Marxists, want to defund the police, abolish prisons, dismantle the nuclear family, etc
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 465

    A new poll finds President Trump and Democratic rival Joe Biden tied in Georgia, a traditionally red state that has not gone for the Democratic presidential nominee since 1992.

    The latest Monmouth University survey finds Trump and Biden each at 47 percent support, with 3 percent supporting Libertarian Jo Jorgensen and 3 percent undecided.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/509547-trump-and-biden-tied-in-georgia-poll

    One major question for Biden campaign is, what percent of resources (esp. money) to put into GA and similar states beyond the obvious battleground states?

    Expanding the map makes Trumpsky & GOP fight on more fronts, but also risks diluting Biden's resources - just ask Hillary, 1n 2016 she wasted time & money on Texas that would have been MUCH better spent in Wisconsin.

    Whatever strategic decision Uncle Joe makes, methinks that close presidential race is good news for Democratic US Senate challenger Jon Ossoff, running to unseat incumbent Republican David Perdue.
    270 is the only number that matters, everything else is a bonus.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,900
    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    NZ (at least since I was there 30 years ago) has an official policy of biculturism. Maori language and culture was compulsory in schools for everyone.

    While certainly there are some Maori grievances, it is worth noting that in law, from the very foundation of the colony, that Maori had equal rights, including the right to vote. A stark contrast to many other settler colonies.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 34,306
    dodrade said:

    A new poll finds President Trump and Democratic rival Joe Biden tied in Georgia, a traditionally red state that has not gone for the Democratic presidential nominee since 1992.

    The latest Monmouth University survey finds Trump and Biden each at 47 percent support, with 3 percent supporting Libertarian Jo Jorgensen and 3 percent undecided.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/509547-trump-and-biden-tied-in-georgia-poll

    One major question for Biden campaign is, what percent of resources (esp. money) to put into GA and similar states beyond the obvious battleground states?

    Expanding the map makes Trumpsky & GOP fight on more fronts, but also risks diluting Biden's resources - just ask Hillary, 1n 2016 she wasted time & money on Texas that would have been MUCH better spent in Wisconsin.

    Whatever strategic decision Uncle Joe makes, methinks that close presidential race is good news for Democratic US Senate challenger Jon Ossoff, running to unseat incumbent Republican David Perdue.
    270 is the only number that matters, everything else is a bonus.
    Needs to be more this year. A lot more. If there are only one or two states in it and the postal ballots haven't arrived etc etc, then Trump aint going anywhere.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,900
    LadyG said:

    EPG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The voters who are still backing Trump"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/29/opinions/swing-voters-midwest-trump-support-thau/index.html

    "And, each month for the past 17 months, I've had a unique window into the Americans largely responsible for giving the president his slim Electoral College victory: so-called "Obama-Trump" swing voters across the upper Midwest.
    Our Swing Voter Project has uncovered that many of these people, who live in places such as Canton, Ohio; Davenport, Iowa; Erie, Pennsylvania; and Macomb County, Michigan, prefer Trump over Biden. In fact, 22 of 33 respondents in these four most recent locations feel this way."

    "They conflate the Black Lives Matter protesters with the rioters attacking federal buildings and retail shops. They don't want historic monuments torn down. And they dismiss defunding the police as ridiculous."

    The Left playing right into Trump's hands. They should shut the f up until late November.
    Drinks with a 50-something Remainer swing voter. Generally centre-Left. Considerable loathing for Official BLM. Absolute loathing for unvoted statue toppling. I did not ask for an opinion, it was presented.

    I wonder how much of this is supporting the Tory vote. Brits do not like mayhem.
    The 50-something left-wing remainer who hates BLM is another great character. Are they also a Cornish yachtsman with a meth lab?
    You can ignore them if you like, but these people VOTE.

    For what it is worth he works in musical theatre and lives in SE London. He doesn't "hate BLM", he hates the Official BLM - and for good reason: they are avowed Marxists, want to defund the police, abolish prisons, dismantle the nuclear family, etc
    With musical theatre in the doldrums was he working for an Albanian taxi company?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 6,454
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The voters who are still backing Trump"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/29/opinions/swing-voters-midwest-trump-support-thau/index.html

    "And, each month for the past 17 months, I've had a unique window into the Americans largely responsible for giving the president his slim Electoral College victory: so-called "Obama-Trump" swing voters across the upper Midwest.
    Our Swing Voter Project has uncovered that many of these people, who live in places such as Canton, Ohio; Davenport, Iowa; Erie, Pennsylvania; and Macomb County, Michigan, prefer Trump over Biden. In fact, 22 of 33 respondents in these four most recent locations feel this way."

    That’s literally 33 respondents ?
    Not the most statistically significant sample (& your link is labelled an opinion piece rather than news).
    Focus groups can be useful. For example, the Birmingham Northfield focus group for Newsnight that correctly predicted the Tories would win the seat for the first time in 30 years.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 953

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    I suspect most already think US democracy has been more notable for its abscence over the years when you consider all the voter suppression and gerry mandering that goes on.
    US vote suppression is a problem BUT is also WAY overblown, often for political reasons but mostly due to Democratic distrust following 2000. For example, turns out lot of "suppression" occurs in jurisdictions where voting is controlled by & large by Democrats.

    As for gerrymandering, well, UK's version is more decorous, perhaps, but not non-political or non-partisan, not by a long shot.

    Re: gerrymandering, note that WA State decades ago adopted a Redistrict Commission system, to take the process out of the direct control of the legislature and thus whomever controlled it.

    Under WA state law, Redistricting Commission is created after every census, with one voting member from each legislative caucus (state house & senate Dems & Reps) with non-voting chair. Result is incumbent protection, with a handful of legislative & congressional districts contested, rest safe for one party or the other.

    Of course over time demographic, economic, political, electoral trends will re-shape this status quo. BUT the redistricting process itself is still controlled - albeit indirectly - by the legislature, but by leader of both parties in (more or less) concert.
    Don't just take my opinion for it
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
    Wasn't planning to! But please note, have my own sources of info on this topic.
    And the democracy index I linked is pretty widely respected and probably has a better oversight than a partisan shill.

    How can you call out the uk when things like this happen

    "The blend of federal agents -- drawn from the CBP, US Marshals Service, and ICE -- rolled onto the streets in unmarked vehicles. Out of these vehicles sprang agents dressed like soldiers, wearing no markings clearly identifying the officers or the agency they represented. Residents were taken off the street to unknown locations for questioning. They were later released and given no paperwork that informed them who had detained them or for what reason."

    And your government tries to defend it in court. When it happens in places like China we denounce that sort of thing.

    source of quote
    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200724/14025644974/court-blocks-federal-officers-attacking-arresting-reporters-covering-protests-portland.shtml

    May be a shill - or rather a hack - but yours truly shills/hacks for the DEMOCRATS. It ain't MY government, bub - it's Trumpsky's

    Ah I see like under Obama who I was believe from your side of the fence who when taking office the USA was sitting at rank 20 of the world index of press freedom and during his tenure managed to help that slide to 41 by his actions against press freedoms....those democrats .

    The world press index is compiled by Reporters without borders as no doubt you will want to cast aspersions on their credibility
    Look at the specific points I made. Which are based on personal experience NOT surfing the web.
    Your points were its happening under a Trump regime and gerrymandering and voter supression wasn't so bad.

    My points were backed by research by international groups who collate data and summarise it into an indexed measure, internation groups with good reputations.

    Your points are based on personal anecdote and come from a known partisan source.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 6,454
    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 923
    Foxy said:

    LadyG said:

    EPG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The voters who are still backing Trump"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/29/opinions/swing-voters-midwest-trump-support-thau/index.html

    "And, each month for the past 17 months, I've had a unique window into the Americans largely responsible for giving the president his slim Electoral College victory: so-called "Obama-Trump" swing voters across the upper Midwest.
    Our Swing Voter Project has uncovered that many of these people, who live in places such as Canton, Ohio; Davenport, Iowa; Erie, Pennsylvania; and Macomb County, Michigan, prefer Trump over Biden. In fact, 22 of 33 respondents in these four most recent locations feel this way."

    "They conflate the Black Lives Matter protesters with the rioters attacking federal buildings and retail shops. They don't want historic monuments torn down. And they dismiss defunding the police as ridiculous."

    The Left playing right into Trump's hands. They should shut the f up until late November.
    Drinks with a 50-something Remainer swing voter. Generally centre-Left. Considerable loathing for Official BLM. Absolute loathing for unvoted statue toppling. I did not ask for an opinion, it was presented.

    I wonder how much of this is supporting the Tory vote. Brits do not like mayhem.
    The 50-something left-wing remainer who hates BLM is another great character. Are they also a Cornish yachtsman with a meth lab?
    You can ignore them if you like, but these people VOTE.

    For what it is worth he works in musical theatre and lives in SE London. He doesn't "hate BLM", he hates the Official BLM - and for good reason: they are avowed Marxists, want to defund the police, abolish prisons, dismantle the nuclear family, etc
    With musical theatre in the doldrums was he working for an Albanian taxi company?
    Probably. Soon.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8569583/The-Phantom-Opera-ends-34-year-West-End-run.html

    As a centre-righty I am quite happy for lefties like you to loftily ignore these voices. It means you will lose. Yet again.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 34,306
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The voters who are still backing Trump"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/29/opinions/swing-voters-midwest-trump-support-thau/index.html

    "And, each month for the past 17 months, I've had a unique window into the Americans largely responsible for giving the president his slim Electoral College victory: so-called "Obama-Trump" swing voters across the upper Midwest.
    Our Swing Voter Project has uncovered that many of these people, who live in places such as Canton, Ohio; Davenport, Iowa; Erie, Pennsylvania; and Macomb County, Michigan, prefer Trump over Biden. In fact, 22 of 33 respondents in these four most recent locations feel this way."

    That’s literally 33 respondents ?
    Not the most statistically significant sample (& your link is labelled an opinion piece rather than news).
    Focus groups can be useful. For example, the Birmingham Northfield focus group for Newsnight that correctly predicted the Tories would win the seat for the first time in 30 years.
    That group was devastating for Jezza.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    edited July 29
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    I suspect most already think US democracy has been more notable for its abscence over the years when you consider all the voter suppression and gerry mandering that goes on.
    US vote suppression is a problem BUT is also WAY overblown, often for political reasons but mostly due to Democratic distrust following 2000. For example, turns out lot of "suppression" occurs in jurisdictions where voting is controlled by & large by Democrats.

    As for gerrymandering, well, UK's version is more decorous, perhaps, but not non-political or non-partisan, not by a long shot.

    Re: gerrymandering, note that WA State decades ago adopted a Redistrict Commission system, to take the process out of the direct control of the legislature and thus whomever controlled it.

    Under WA state law, Redistricting Commission is created after every census, with one voting member from each legislative caucus (state house & senate Dems & Reps) with non-voting chair. Result is incumbent protection, with a handful of legislative & congressional districts contested, rest safe for one party or the other.

    Of course over time demographic, economic, political, electoral trends will re-shape this status quo. BUT the redistricting process itself is still controlled - albeit indirectly - by the legislature, but by leader of both parties in (more or less) concert.
    Don't just take my opinion for it
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
    Wasn't planning to! But please note, have my own sources of info on this topic.
    And the democracy index I linked is pretty widely respected and probably has a better oversight than a partisan shill.

    How can you call out the uk when things like this happen

    "The blend of federal agents -- drawn from the CBP, US Marshals Service, and ICE -- rolled onto the streets in unmarked vehicles. Out of these vehicles sprang agents dressed like soldiers, wearing no markings clearly identifying the officers or the agency they represented. Residents were taken off the street to unknown locations for questioning. They were later released and given no paperwork that informed them who had detained them or for what reason."

    And your government tries to defend it in court. When it happens in places like China we denounce that sort of thing.

    source of quote
    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200724/14025644974/court-blocks-federal-officers-attacking-arresting-reporters-covering-protests-portland.shtml

    May be a shill - or rather a hack - but yours truly shills/hacks for the DEMOCRATS. It ain't MY government, bub - it's Trumpsky's

    Ah I see like under Obama who I was believe from your side of the fence who when taking office the USA was sitting at rank 20 of the world index of press freedom and during his tenure managed to help that slide to 41 by his actions against press freedoms....those democrats .

    The world press index is compiled by Reporters without borders as no doubt you will want to cast aspersions on their credibility
    Look at the specific points I made. Which are based on personal experience NOT surfing the web.
    Your points were its happening under a Trump regime and gerrymandering and voter supression wasn't so bad.

    My points were backed by research by international groups who collate data and summarise it into an indexed measure, internation groups with good reputations.

    Your points are based on personal anecdote and come from a known partisan source.
    You are almost as big a liar as Trumpsky. Certainly a truth twister.

    Go soak yer fool head.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 28,710
    stjohn said:

    Off topic.

    I had nothing to do the other day. So I thought - I know what I can do! Unsubscribe from all those emails I get that I don’t want, don’t read and don’t know why I even receive them. So I did it. And it worked. No more unsolicited emails. They’ve stopped.

    Now I’ve got even less to do ....

    I get a weekly update from an Israeli law firm that I can’t read to figure how to unsubscribe!
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