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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » 65 years of Tory Prime Ministers – their educational backgroun

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  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    @IshmaelZ are you trying to tell me that:

    “What’s your location” “hang on” ..... “zebra pig tuesday”

    is better than:

    “We already know your location, we’re on our way.”
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    This was sadly inevitable. China looking more and more like 1930s Germany.

    https://www.twitter.com/next_china/status/1288709081214189568
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,699
    Tony Hancock's The Radio Ham needs to be re-written for the modern age.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    What we need now is bloody good shouting match about MGRS and Universal Transverse Mercator.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Good blog post on why what3words is crap: https://blog.ldodds.com/2016/06/14/what-3-words-jog-on-mate/

    I love what3words it is great for what it is ie be able to pinpoint a location you need to find or you need someone else to find.
    But it isn’t. It’s a proprietary solution for something that is already open and available.

    Like I said, if you have GPS available to generate your three words, you also have enough signal to send someone your actual exact location.

    Likewise it gives you no locational awareness. henry two football could be 2000 miles away from henry three football. The exact opposite of what you want in a system of this sort.
    Proprietary like, oooh, photoshop, mathematica, macos, and large parts of python? OK, write a superior open source competitor if you think you're 'ard enough.

    It's a non-point to say that software does what can already be done, like saying why use a calculator when long division is a thing. Ease of use is the point. the actual emergency services think what3words is the best thing since sliced bread (which obviously never caught on because people could already slice bread with existing technology).
    Long/lat coordinates. They already exist. What3Words is not an improvement.

    Google Maps also has their own solution.
    You are lost, cold, frightened and broken-legged, in a blizzard, on a mountain, with a phone and signal. Is it easier to get w3w to say "sausageanteaterwank" to you, and relay that down the phone, or find and relay your lat/long? I sometimes navigate yachts, and lat/long is clunky as feck even if you are sitting comfortably at a well-equipped chart table.
    Exactly.

    Plus it's invaluable to find second horses/your box if you are visiting and don't know the country.
    2nd horses usually above my pay grade, but I applaud the principle.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    @IshmaelZ are you trying to tell me that:

    “What’s your location” “hang on” ..... “zebra pig tuesday”

    is better than:

    “We already know your location, we’re on our way.”

    For privacy purposes your location isn't automatically shared with anyone you call.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    @IshmaelZ are you trying to tell me that:

    “What’s your location” “hang on” ..... “zebra pig tuesday”

    is better than:

    “We already know your location, we’re on our way.”

    For privacy purposes your location isn't automatically shared with anyone you call.
    I’ve already demonstrated that it is. With the emergency services.

    Obviously it does not share it if I called you.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Good blog post on why what3words is crap: https://blog.ldodds.com/2016/06/14/what-3-words-jog-on-mate/

    I love what3words it is great for what it is ie be able to pinpoint a location you need to find or you need someone else to find.
    But it isn’t. It’s a proprietary solution for something that is already open and available.

    Like I said, if you have GPS available to generate your three words, you also have enough signal to send someone your actual exact location.

    Likewise it gives you no locational awareness. henry two football could be 2000 miles away from henry three football. The exact opposite of what you want in a system of this sort.
    Proprietary like, oooh, photoshop, mathematica, macos, and large parts of python? OK, write a superior open source competitor if you think you're 'ard enough.

    It's a non-point to say that software does what can already be done, like saying why use a calculator when long division is a thing. Ease of use is the point. the actual emergency services think what3words is the best thing since sliced bread (which obviously never caught on because people could already slice bread with existing technology).
    Long/lat coordinates. They already exist. What3Words is not an improvement.

    Google Maps also has their own solution.
    You are lost, cold, frightened and broken-legged, in a blizzard, on a mountain, with a phone and signal. Is it easier to get w3w to say "sausageanteaterwank" to you, and relay that down the phone, or find and relay your lat/long? I sometimes navigate yachts, and lat/long is clunky as feck even if you are sitting comfortably at a well-equipped chart table.
    If you have signal, your phone is already relaying your location to the emergency services, is it not? If not, then it should.

    This proprietary system is just an extra, unnecessary layer on top of what we already have.
    OK. Ask the next ambulance driver or mountain rescue bod you meet what s/he thinks about it.

    You do know there's competing, equally legit formats for lat/long? 50.557899, -3.963901
    and 50°33'28.4"N 3°57'50.0"W are synonyms. Try negotiating over the phone which format you are using, and then relaying the data.

    Phones aren't "relaying your data," and what a waste of battery if they were.
    I’ve just demonstrated that iPhones specifically have a feature for relaying your exact location to emergency services.

    If we don’t support that, I’d be asking serious questions why.

    It involves ZERO user engagement. That’s the point.
    Great if true. In the meantime w3w is a useful stopgap for those who don't have latest gen iphones.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    You've just crashed millions of school-related house prices at stroke.

    On which subject, a friend has just put their Dartmouth property on the market for 20-25% more than they were expecting. They have two viewings today. The agent expects it will be sold within 10 days. It's just flying out the door in south Devon.
    Yes - but that's a collateral benefit not the main point of it.

    Re a mini property boom, I do hope this is not to an extent because of the stamp duty concession. Overpay by £30k to save £15k. Such crazy things can and sometimes do happen in the housing market.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Good blog post on why what3words is crap: https://blog.ldodds.com/2016/06/14/what-3-words-jog-on-mate/

    I love what3words it is great for what it is ie be able to pinpoint a location you need to find or you need someone else to find.
    But it isn’t. It’s a proprietary solution for something that is already open and available.

    Like I said, if you have GPS available to generate your three words, you also have enough signal to send someone your actual exact location.

    Likewise it gives you no locational awareness. henry two football could be 2000 miles away from henry three football. The exact opposite of what you want in a system of this sort.
    Proprietary like, oooh, photoshop, mathematica, macos, and large parts of python? OK, write a superior open source competitor if you think you're 'ard enough.

    It's a non-point to say that software does what can already be done, like saying why use a calculator when long division is a thing. Ease of use is the point. the actual emergency services think what3words is the best thing since sliced bread (which obviously never caught on because people could already slice bread with existing technology).
    Long/lat coordinates. They already exist. What3Words is not an improvement.

    Google Maps also has their own solution.
    You are lost, cold, frightened and broken-legged, in a blizzard, on a mountain, with a phone and signal. Is it easier to get w3w to say "sausageanteaterwank" to you, and relay that down the phone, or find and relay your lat/long? I sometimes navigate yachts, and lat/long is clunky as feck even if you are sitting comfortably at a well-equipped chart table.
    If you have signal, your phone is already relaying your location to the emergency services, is it not? If not, then it should.

    This proprietary system is just an extra, unnecessary layer on top of what we already have.
    OK. Ask the next ambulance driver or mountain rescue bod you meet what s/he thinks about it.

    You do know there's competing, equally legit formats for lat/long? 50.557899, -3.963901
    and 50°33'28.4"N 3°57'50.0"W are synonyms. Try negotiating over the phone which format you are using, and then relaying the data.

    Phones aren't "relaying your data," and what a waste of battery if they were.
    I’ve just demonstrated that iPhones specifically have a feature for relaying your exact location to emergency services.

    If we don’t support that, I’d be asking serious questions why.

    It involves ZERO user engagement. That’s the point.
    Great if true. In the meantime w3w is a useful stopgap for those who don't have latest gen iphones.
    Of course w3w is fine for redundancy and those with older phones.

    It just isn’t THE solution for the future.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880

    Tony Hancock's The Radio Ham needs to be re-written for the modern age.

    Gallowgate would let the bloke's boat sink if he insisted on using W3W.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847
    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    We had different “sets” at my comp in the 2000s. Is that what you mean by “streaming”? There was higher and lower sets for english, maths, and science.

    A friend of mine went to a school in Ayrshire. They were not allowed to have streaming so the Head Master used the time table. Bright kids were encouraged to take Latin. When they did they ended up in different classes for the sciences, maths and English, smaller and well above average. It certainly worked for him.
    I did Latin in Ayrshire but as I was a lazy sod , I dropped it later on , preferred the horses.
    Did you manage to pass the horses?
    I used to win a fair bit, was a champion marker in days before they had TV in bookies and it was all radio with odds on blackboards.
    Certainly very hard to win now without inside info unless you are prepared to devote yourself to it.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    Dura_Ace said:

    Tony Hancock's The Radio Ham needs to be re-written for the modern age.

    Gallowgate would let the bloke's boat sink if he insisted on using W3W.
    And rightly so.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited July 2020
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    You've just crashed millions of school-related house prices at stroke.

    On which subject, a friend has just put their Dartmouth property on the market for 20-25% more than they were expecting. They have two viewings today. The agent expects it will be sold within 10 days. It's just flying out the door in south Devon.
    Yes - but that's a collateral benefit not the main point of it.

    Re a mini property boom, I do hope this is not to an extent because of the stamp duty concession. Overpay by £30k to save £15k. Such crazy things can and sometimes do happen in the housing market.
    Your plan will boost house prices even more, abolish private and grammar schools and middle class parents will pay a fortune for houses in the catchment areas of outstanding state comprehensive or academies
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,042
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Good blog post on why what3words is crap: https://blog.ldodds.com/2016/06/14/what-3-words-jog-on-mate/

    I love what3words it is great for what it is ie be able to pinpoint a location you need to find or you need someone else to find.
    But it isn’t. It’s a proprietary solution for something that is already open and available.

    Like I said, if you have GPS available to generate your three words, you also have enough signal to send someone your actual exact location.

    Likewise it gives you no locational awareness. henry two football could be 2000 miles away from henry three football. The exact opposite of what you want in a system of this sort.
    Proprietary like, oooh, photoshop, mathematica, macos, and large parts of python? OK, write a superior open source competitor if you think you're 'ard enough.

    It's a non-point to say that software does what can already be done, like saying why use a calculator when long division is a thing. Ease of use is the point. the actual emergency services think what3words is the best thing since sliced bread (which obviously never caught on because people could already slice bread with existing technology).
    Long/lat coordinates. They already exist. What3Words is not an improvement.

    Google Maps also has their own solution.
    You are lost, cold, frightened and broken-legged, in a blizzard, on a mountain, with a phone and signal. Is it easier to get w3w to say "sausageanteaterwank" to you, and relay that down the phone, or find and relay your lat/long? I sometimes navigate yachts, and lat/long is clunky as feck even if you are sitting comfortably at a well-equipped chart table.
    Exactly.

    Plus it's invaluable to find second horses/your box if you are visiting and don't know the country.
    2nd horses usually above my pay grade, but I applaud the principle.
    A first horse is above my pay grade - have you seen how much those things eat?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    We had different “sets” at my comp in the 2000s. Is that what you mean by “streaming”? There was higher and lower sets for english, maths, and science.

    A friend of mine went to a school in Ayrshire. They were not allowed to have streaming so the Head Master used the time table. Bright kids were encouraged to take Latin. When they did they ended up in different classes for the sciences, maths and English, smaller and well above average. It certainly worked for him.
    I did Latin in Ayrshire but as I was a lazy sod , I dropped it later on , preferred the horses.
    Did you manage to pass the horses?
    I used to win a fair bit, was a champion marker in days before they had TV in bookies and it was all radio with odds on blackboards.
    Certainly very hard to win now without inside info unless you are prepared to devote yourself to it.
    When my stepfather married my mother in the late sixties, one of their wedding presents from a well-known jockey at the time was a tip in a rigged race - 20-1. Very nice. Except for those times when his horse should have won, but the jockey was instructed not to...
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,699
    Dura_Ace said:

    What we need now is bloody good shouting match about MGRS and Universal Transverse Mercator.

    Before we do that, let's pause and imagine what the world would look like if the prime meridian ran through Paris.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653

    NHS England Hospital numbers out

    Headline - 12
    7 Days - 10
    Yesterday - 0

    image
    image
    image
    image

    The BBC insists on reporting these as people who died "of" Covid, rather than "with" Covid, a positive test that may or may not have been a factor in their death.

    Unless we have a period of immortality, I guess these double-digit numbers are going to be here a while.
    Whether "with" or "of" there was only 12! It that goes to 20 tomorrow there will be talk of a spike. The BBC have been appalling - and I`m its biggest fan up to now - stoking up negativity and fear. BBC News last night showed reporter in Mallorca standing in the street wearing a mask!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,606
    edited July 2020

    NHS England Hospital numbers out

    Headline - 12
    7 Days - 10
    Yesterday - 0

    image
    image
    image
    image

    The BBC insists on reporting these as people who died "of" Covid, rather than "with" Covid, a positive test that may or may not have been a factor in their death.

    Unless we have a period of immortality, I guess these double-digit numbers are going to be here a while.
    This is hospital data, not PHE all settings (the one mentioned in the news)

    We are already below 10 on Hospital data. At a guess, we could be seeing 0 next week.

    As to PHE all settings data - it is still falling as well.

    My estimate - for the 2 weeks (29 and 28) where the PHE by day-of-death data overlaps the ONS series is that PHE is 30% higher than ONS for all settings. See last nights thread.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    Dura_Ace said:

    What we need now is bloody good shouting match about MGRS and Universal Transverse Mercator.

    Before we do that, let's pause and imagine what the world would look like if the prime meridian ran through Paris.
    There goes the Greenwich tourism industry, for one.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,721

    Dura_Ace said:

    What we need now is bloody good shouting match about MGRS and Universal Transverse Mercator.

    Before we do that, let's pause and imagine what the world would look like if the prime meridian ran through Paris.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP3nZ13AULs
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Good blog post on why what3words is crap: https://blog.ldodds.com/2016/06/14/what-3-words-jog-on-mate/

    I love what3words it is great for what it is ie be able to pinpoint a location you need to find or you need someone else to find.
    But it isn’t. It’s a proprietary solution for something that is already open and available.

    Like I said, if you have GPS available to generate your three words, you also have enough signal to send someone your actual exact location.

    Likewise it gives you no locational awareness. henry two football could be 2000 miles away from henry three football. The exact opposite of what you want in a system of this sort.
    Proprietary like, oooh, photoshop, mathematica, macos, and large parts of python? OK, write a superior open source competitor if you think you're 'ard enough.

    It's a non-point to say that software does what can already be done, like saying why use a calculator when long division is a thing. Ease of use is the point. the actual emergency services think what3words is the best thing since sliced bread (which obviously never caught on because people could already slice bread with existing technology).
    Long/lat coordinates. They already exist. What3Words is not an improvement.

    Google Maps also has their own solution.
    You are lost, cold, frightened and broken-legged, in a blizzard, on a mountain, with a phone and signal. Is it easier to get w3w to say "sausageanteaterwank" to you, and relay that down the phone, or find and relay your lat/long? I sometimes navigate yachts, and lat/long is clunky as feck even if you are sitting comfortably at a well-equipped chart table.
    Exactly.

    Plus it's invaluable to find second horses/your box if you are visiting and don't know the country.
    2nd horses usually above my pay grade, but I applaud the principle.
    A first horse is above my pay grade - have you seen how much those things eat?
    Tell me about it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Is Boris Johnson to blame for (a) the UK's high population density, and (b) the poor health of the UK population with regard to diabetes, obesity, etc?
    No. It may however be that specific government decision failures which he is responsible for have meant we are among the very worst hit, if not the worst. Merely being near the top may not be his or the governments fault given relevant factors and that context will need to be borne in mind. But that does not rule out that there may be specific failures he is responsible for not preventing.

    A clear and cold assessment will be needed on that score. I doubt we will get that.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Stocky said:

    NHS England Hospital numbers out

    Headline - 12
    7 Days - 10
    Yesterday - 0

    image
    image
    image
    image

    The BBC insists on reporting these as people who died "of" Covid, rather than "with" Covid, a positive test that may or may not have been a factor in their death.

    Unless we have a period of immortality, I guess these double-digit numbers are going to be here a while.
    Whether "with" or "of" there was only 12! It that goes to 20 tomorrow there will be talk of a spike. The BBC have been appalling - and I`m its biggest fan up to now - stoking up negativity and fear. BBC News last night showed reporter in Mallorca standing in the street wearing a mask!
    He would have been fined if he hadn’t apart fro. It being good sense.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,122
    Stocky said:

    NHS England Hospital numbers out

    Headline - 12
    7 Days - 10
    Yesterday - 0

    image
    image
    image
    image

    The BBC insists on reporting these as people who died "of" Covid, rather than "with" Covid, a positive test that may or may not have been a factor in their death.

    Unless we have a period of immortality, I guess these double-digit numbers are going to be here a while.
    Whether "with" or "of" there was only 12! It that goes to 20 tomorrow there will be talk of a spike. The BBC have been appalling - and I`m its biggest fan up to now - stoking up negativity and fear. BBC News last night showed reporter in Mallorca standing in the street wearing a mask!
    I hate the BBC - but the reporter could have been arrested if s/he had not worn the mask!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Andy_JS said:

    In the 21st century with online deliveries as well as post etc I can't understand why anyone would want a street with names rather than numbers. Its ineffective nonsense.

    Names as well as numbers fair enough. But all homes should have a number, street name and a postcode.

    Personal choice is one reason.
    Personal choice doesn't explain why you'd want it. I could choose to stick my head in a fully heated oven too but I can't understand why anyone would want to do that either.

    The purpose of an address isn't for you to find your own home, you presumably already know where you live. The purpose of an address is to help others find your home and the best way of doing that is street number, street name and postcode.

    Do some people choose not to have a post code either?
    How about a compromise in the name of freedom?

    People will have the freedom not to bother with a number for their house.
    Posties and delivery companies will now have the freedom not to bother to deliver to a house without a number.

    Maximum freedom for all.
    What a childish comment.
    Oh, dear, I fear you've missed the point.

    Which is, of course, that while we are free to do what we like, if we wish to join in with a system or service, we need to comply with certain requirements for that service.

    For example, I might not like the format of email addresses, and I'm free to choose something completely incompatible as my email address - but I shouldn't really expect it to work for receiving email from anyone else.

    In this case, the issue is around the service being provided in the form of post and parcels. A requirement placed on compatibility with the service (eg postcodes, or, as per the discussion, numbers (given that lacking numbers can impose extra burdens on anyone attempting to fulfil that service)) is not an infringement on anyone's personal freedom. They can do whatever they like there.

    It's only an issue if they want to partake in that specific service. Then the consequences would be that they couldn't do that.

    As per Terry Pratchett: "The first freedom is the freedom to take the consequences. It is the freedom on which all the others are based."

    I hope that helps.
    Dont try to trick me into liking a post via insertion of a Pratchett quote.

    Damn.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,606

    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    We had different “sets” at my comp in the 2000s. Is that what you mean by “streaming”? There was higher and lower sets for english, maths, and science.

    A friend of mine went to a school in Ayrshire. They were not allowed to have streaming so the Head Master used the time table. Bright kids were encouraged to take Latin. When they did they ended up in different classes for the sciences, maths and English, smaller and well above average. It certainly worked for him.
    I did Latin in Ayrshire but as I was a lazy sod , I dropped it later on , preferred the horses.
    Did you manage to pass the horses?
    I used to win a fair bit, was a champion marker in days before they had TV in bookies and it was all radio with odds on blackboards.
    Certainly very hard to win now without inside info unless you are prepared to devote yourself to it.
    When my stepfather married my mother in the late sixties, one of their wedding presents from a well-known jockey at the time was a tip in a rigged race - 20-1. Very nice. Except for those times when his horse should have won, but the jockey was instructed not to...
    The most crooked racing I ever saw was at Happy Valley Racetrack in Hong Kong. First race I saw, the favourite was x lengths up. On the home straight, the jockey didn't actually pull up, and starting reading a book. But close.

    All the other races were like that - cheating like wrestling villains in WWF.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288818160389558273

    Trump reveals his gameplan. Delay the election..
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Tres said:

    I wonder how many ppl know the long/lat location of their property off the top of their heads?

    If there are such people I hope they are securely watched as thatd be very strange.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,957
    edited July 2020

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288818160389558273

    Trump reveals his gameplan. Delay the election..

    So it is safe to send children to schools but not for adults to vote?

    Gotta to love Trump's logic.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    Utter rubbish, by definition if you live in the posh part of town sending your child to the local school is far more likely to be to an excellent school than parents sending their children to the local school in the rough part of town.

    Plus if you order a curry from an excellent restaurant surely you must abolish that too as it is more expensive than the customers who have to buy from the far less good curry house down the road?
    You might view education as akin to the restaurant trade but I don't.

    Re your more serious point, you are missing 2 key parts of the proposed reform. (i) Resource will be heavily skewed to schools in disadvantaged areas. (ii) Teaching will be a 'creme de la creme' profession. You probably know the Eric Cantona beer advert? So it will like that with "farmer" replaced by "teacher".

    Upshot, struggling schools invested in very seriously and staffed (via incentives) with the best teachers. Better than those in "easier" environments. A few years of this and what we see is gaps closing. And as gaps close, behaviour duly changes and gaps close further. A virtuous circle replaces a vicious one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENzkzKshpQ
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288818160389558273

    Trump reveals his gameplan. Delay the election..

    Constitution says no.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    "Dutch government will not advise public to wear masks - minister

    AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - The Dutch government on Wednesday said it will not advise the public to wear masks to slow the spread of coronavirus, asserting that their effectiveness has not been proven."

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-netherlands/dutch-government-will-not-advise-public-to-wear-masks-minister-idUSKCN24U2UJ
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288818160389558273

    Trump reveals his gameplan. Delay the election..

    Plan or trolling. If theres outrage from the wrong people he will say it was the latter.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Dura_Ace said:

    What we need now is bloody good shouting match about MGRS and Universal Transverse Mercator.

    It would certainly make us all easier to bomb. Boom! Boom! ;) (As Basil Brush used to say)
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    Utter rubbish, by definition if you live in the posh part of town sending your child to the local school is far more likely to be to an excellent school than parents sending their children to the local school in the rough part of town.

    Plus if you order a curry from an excellent restaurant surely you must abolish that too as it is more expensive than the customers who have to buy from the far less good curry house down the road?
    You might view education as akin to the restaurant trade but I don't.

    Re your more serious point, you are missing 2 key parts of the proposed reform. (i) Resource will be heavily skewed to schools in disadvantaged areas. (ii) Teaching will be a 'creme de la creme' profession. You probably know the Eric Cantona beer advert? So it will like that with "farmer" replaced by "teacher".

    Upshot, struggling schools invested in very seriously and staffed (via incentives) with the best teachers. Better than those in "easier" environments. A few years of this and what we see is gaps closing. And as gaps close, behaviour duly changes and gaps close further. A virtuous circle replaces a vicious one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENzkzKshpQ
    As long as certain sections of society can ensure good education for their children then the rest can get stuffed, why should they care they are ok.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited July 2020
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    Utter rubbish, by definition if you live in the posh part of town sending your child to the local school is far more likely to be to an excellent school than parents sending their children to the local school in the rough part of town.

    Plus if you order a curry from an excellent restaurant surely you must abolish that too as it is more expensive than the customers who have to buy from the far less good curry house down the road?
    You might view education as akin to the restaurant trade but I don't.

    Re your more serious point, you are missing 2 key parts of the proposed reform. (i) Resource will be heavily skewed to schools in disadvantaged areas. (ii) Teaching will be a 'creme de la creme' profession. You probably know the Eric Cantona beer advert? So it will like that with "farmer" replaced by "teacher".

    Upshot, struggling schools invested in very seriously and staffed (via incentives) with the best teachers. Better than those in "easier" environments. A few years of this and what we see is gaps closing. And as gaps close, behaviour duly changes and gaps close further. A virtuous circle replaces a vicious one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENzkzKshpQ
    You want socialism in education, the left will not stop there but push for socialism for the whole economy too.

    You can spend as much money as you want on disadvantaged areas, without good head teachers and motivated pupils and parents it will not make much difference.

    Plus unless you pay every teacher a six figure salary and require most of them to have Oxbridge and Russell Group degrees it is never going to be an absolutely top profession like being a commercial lawyer or a surgeon or investment banker
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,957
    IIRC Trump doesn't have the power to delay an election does he?

    It would require a constitutional amendment to change the election from the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,957
    Anyhoo, I like a good constitutional crisis.

    I mean who doesn't?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,560
    It seems as though Gohmert's colleagues are coming to realise that he is (as he once called Robert Mueller), an 'anal opening'.

    https://twitter.com/TexasTribAbby/status/1288798058684260355
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited July 2020

    IIRC Trump doesn't have the power to delay an election does he?

    It would require a constitutional amendment to change the election from the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November.

    Yes, but that isn't the plan here

    The plan is to make the election result look illegitimate so when he doesn't win he can do everything he can to have it ruled inaccurate and remain in the White House.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288818160389558273

    Trump reveals his gameplan. Delay the election..

    Plan or trolling. If theres outrage from the wrong people he will say it was the latter.
    He probably can't prevent the election, nor a change of the Presidency, but he's doing everything he can to claim the result is illegitimate.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    You've just crashed millions of school-related house prices at stroke.

    On which subject, a friend has just put their Dartmouth property on the market for 20-25% more than they were expecting. They have two viewings today. The agent expects it will be sold within 10 days. It's just flying out the door in south Devon.
    Yes - but that's a collateral benefit not the main point of it.

    Re a mini property boom, I do hope this is not to an extent because of the stamp duty concession. Overpay by £30k to save £15k. Such crazy things can and sometimes do happen in the housing market.
    Your plan will boost house prices even more, abolish private and grammar schools and middle class parents will pay a fortune for houses in the catchment areas of outstanding state comprehensive or academies
    I don't think so. Not in droves and not beyond the short term. But in any event I'm not framing an education policy with a view to its impact on house prices. They are enough of an obsession here to start with.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,560

    Dura_Ace said:

    What we need now is bloody good shouting match about MGRS and Universal Transverse Mercator.

    It would certainly make us all easier to bomb. Boom! Boom! ;) (As Basil Brush used to say)
    It's not difficult - you only need to find two locations, apparently:
    A Brief Guide To Destroying The Royal Air Force
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2020/07/29/a-guide-to-destroying-the-royal-air-force/#986976e3ee91
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288818160389558273

    Trump reveals his gameplan. Delay the election..

    Plan or trolling. If theres outrage from the wrong people he will say it was the latter.
    He probably can't prevent the election, nor a change of the Presidency, but he's doing everything he can to claim the result is illegitimate.
    Yep. Even if he loses it means it wasnt his fault as he was cheated.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    The whole of the US economy decreased in size by 33% in 3 months? Really?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123
    Interesting there is no mention of the Ordnance Survey NGR in all this talk of postcodes (understandably) and lying on Rannoch Moor in the dark with a broken leg (much less understandably).
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    Carnyx said:

    Interesting there is no mention of the Ordnance Survey NGR in all this talk of postcodes (understandably) and lying on Rannoch Moor in the dark with a broken leg (much less understandably).

    The main complaint from the Mountain Rescue in Cumbria is people only calling when they phones are already dead as they've used the battery up using the phone as a map...
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    Utter rubbish, by definition if you live in the posh part of town sending your child to the local school is far more likely to be to an excellent school than parents sending their children to the local school in the rough part of town.

    Plus if you order a curry from an excellent restaurant surely you must abolish that too as it is more expensive than the customers who have to buy from the far less good curry house down the road?
    You might view education as akin to the restaurant trade but I don't.

    Re your more serious point, you are missing 2 key parts of the proposed reform. (i) Resource will be heavily skewed to schools in disadvantaged areas. (ii) Teaching will be a 'creme de la creme' profession. You probably know the Eric Cantona beer advert? So it will like that with "farmer" replaced by "teacher".

    Upshot, struggling schools invested in very seriously and staffed (via incentives) with the best teachers. Better than those in "easier" environments. A few years of this and what we see is gaps closing. And as gaps close, behaviour duly changes and gaps close further. A virtuous circle replaces a vicious one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENzkzKshpQ
    Well done. You’ve just created an incentive for schools to get the worst exam results that they can...
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited July 2020

    The whole of the US economy decreased in size by 33% in 3 months? Really?
    Annualised it was actually something like a 9.3% dip so better than the UK possibly because people went back to work sooner. The second wave of cases does show that might not have been the best idea.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123
    edited July 2020
    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting there is no mention of the Ordnance Survey NGR in all this talk of postcodes (understandably) and lying on Rannoch Moor in the dark with a broken leg (much less understandably).

    The main complaint from the Mountain Rescue in Cumbria is people only calling when they phones are already dead as they've used the battery up using the phone as a map...
    I'm showing my age probably, but I cannot conceive of going anywhere in the wilds sans [edit: proper OS paper] map and torch - and the phone as an extra bonus.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting there is no mention of the Ordnance Survey NGR in all this talk of postcodes (understandably) and lying on Rannoch Moor in the dark with a broken leg (much less understandably).

    The main complaint from the Mountain Rescue in Cumbria is people only calling when they phones are already dead as they've used the battery up using the phone as a map...
    I'm showing my age probably, but I cannot conceive of going anywhere in the wilds sans map and torch - and the phone as an extra bonus.
    That's the problem, people are forgoing the map (and the touch) as the phone has both - until suddenly the phone is without power and you have nothing.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting there is no mention of the Ordnance Survey NGR in all this talk of postcodes (understandably) and lying on Rannoch Moor in the dark with a broken leg (much less understandably).

    The main complaint from the Mountain Rescue in Cumbria is people only calling when they phones are already dead as they've used the battery up using the phone as a map...
    I'm showing my age probably, but I cannot conceive of going anywhere in the wilds sans [edit: proper OS paper] map and torch - and the phone as an extra bonus.
    Nothing to do with age, just common sense.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001

    The whole of the US economy decreased in size by 33% in 3 months? Really?
    Renault announced a €7.3 billion first six month loss today
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    You've just crashed millions of school-related house prices at stroke.

    On which subject, a friend has just put their Dartmouth property on the market for 20-25% more than they were expecting. They have two viewings today. The agent expects it will be sold within 10 days. It's just flying out the door in south Devon.
    Yes - but that's a collateral benefit not the main point of it.

    Re a mini property boom, I do hope this is not to an extent because of the stamp duty concession. Overpay by £30k to save £15k. Such crazy things can and sometimes do happen in the housing market.
    Your plan will boost house prices even more, abolish private and grammar schools and middle class parents will pay a fortune for houses in the catchment areas of outstanding state comprehensive or academies
    I don't think so. Not in droves and not beyond the short term. But in any event I'm not framing an education policy with a view to its impact on house prices. They are enough of an obsession here to start with.
    Of course it will, middle class parents want the best schools for their children and will do anything to ensure that.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    What we need now is bloody good shouting match about MGRS and Universal Transverse Mercator.

    It would certainly make us all easier to bomb. Boom! Boom! ;) (As Basil Brush used to say)
    It's not difficult - you only need to find two locations, apparently:
    A Brief Guide To Destroying The Royal Air Force
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2020/07/29/a-guide-to-destroying-the-royal-air-force/#986976e3ee91
    We, we are running the military down to a much smaller level. Soon it will be two biplanes, a trawler with a machine-gun on the front and the army will be two blokes called Nigel..
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    You've just crashed millions of school-related house prices at stroke.

    On which subject, a friend has just put their Dartmouth property on the market for 20-25% more than they were expecting. They have two viewings today. The agent expects it will be sold within 10 days. It's just flying out the door in south Devon.
    Yes - but that's a collateral benefit not the main point of it.

    Re a mini property boom, I do hope this is not to an extent because of the stamp duty concession. Overpay by £30k to save £15k. Such crazy things can and sometimes do happen in the housing market.
    Your plan will boost house prices even more, abolish private and grammar schools and middle class parents will pay a fortune for houses in the catchment areas of outstanding state comprehensive or academies
    I don't think so. Not in droves and not beyond the short term. But in any event I'm not framing an education policy with a view to its impact on house prices. They are enough of an obsession here to start with.
    Of course it will, middle class parents want the best schools for their children and will do anything to ensure that.
    Are you saying that working class parents dont want what’s best for their children?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    edited July 2020

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    What we need now is bloody good shouting match about MGRS and Universal Transverse Mercator.

    It would certainly make us all easier to bomb. Boom! Boom! ;) (As Basil Brush used to say)
    It's not difficult - you only need to find two locations, apparently:
    A Brief Guide To Destroying The Royal Air Force
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2020/07/29/a-guide-to-destroying-the-royal-air-force/#986976e3ee91
    We, we are running the military down to a much smaller level. Soon it will be two biplanes, a trawler with a machine-gun on the front and the army will be two blokes called Nigel..
    @HYUFD will still be telling us all that we’re a superpower though.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,606
    Andy_JS said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting there is no mention of the Ordnance Survey NGR in all this talk of postcodes (understandably) and lying on Rannoch Moor in the dark with a broken leg (much less understandably).

    The main complaint from the Mountain Rescue in Cumbria is people only calling when they phones are already dead as they've used the battery up using the phone as a map...
    I'm showing my age probably, but I cannot conceive of going anywhere in the wilds sans [edit: proper OS paper] map and torch - and the phone as an extra bonus.
    Nothing to do with age, just common sense.
    I'd add a fully charged charging battery pack - you can trivially buy one that recharges your phone 3 times over. 5 times if you look for it...

    My wife was a bit surprised when, on planning a trip in the Peruvian mountains, I was looking into hiring an Iridium phone....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    Utter rubbish, by definition if you live in the posh part of town sending your child to the local school is far more likely to be to an excellent school than parents sending their children to the local school in the rough part of town.

    Plus if you order a curry from an excellent restaurant surely you must abolish that too as it is more expensive than the customers who have to buy from the far less good curry house down the road?
    You might view education as akin to the restaurant trade but I don't.

    Re your more serious point, you are missing 2 key parts of the proposed reform. (i) Resource will be heavily skewed to schools in disadvantaged areas. (ii) Teaching will be a 'creme de la creme' profession. You probably know the Eric Cantona beer advert? So it will like that with "farmer" replaced by "teacher".

    Upshot, struggling schools invested in very seriously and staffed (via incentives) with the best teachers. Better than those in "easier" environments. A few years of this and what we see is gaps closing. And as gaps close, behaviour duly changes and gaps close further. A virtuous circle replaces a vicious one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENzkzKshpQ
    You want socialism in education, the left will not stop there but push for socialism for the whole economy too.

    You can spend as much money as you want on disadvantaged areas, without good head teachers and motivated pupils and parents it will not make much difference.

    Plus unless you pay every teacher a six figure salary and require most of them to have Oxbridge and Russell Group degrees it is never going to be an absolutely top profession like being a commercial lawyer or a surgeon or investment banker
    I speak only for me rather than the left. And I certainly don't speak for Starmer's Labour - since I doubt they will have much interest in an egalitarian education policy.

    As for your objections - this won't work, that won't work, etc etc - I think you ought to channel some "Boris" and stop being such a doomster gloomster.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387

    The whole of the US economy decreased in size by 33% in 3 months? Really?
    Most US figures are annualised. Could be the sale here. Would be a 8% drop in normal terms which sounds about right.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,784
    Trump calling for election delay according to BBC
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,957

    NEW THREAD

  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    What we need now is bloody good shouting match about MGRS and Universal Transverse Mercator.

    It would certainly make us all easier to bomb. Boom! Boom! ;) (As Basil Brush used to say)
    It's not difficult - you only need to find two locations, apparently:
    A Brief Guide To Destroying The Royal Air Force
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2020/07/29/a-guide-to-destroying-the-royal-air-force/#986976e3ee91
    We, we are running the military down to a much smaller level. Soon it will be two biplanes, a trawler with a machine-gun on the front and the army will be two blokes called Nigel..
    @HYUFD will still be telling us all that we’re a superpower though.
    I expect no less ;)
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    Utter rubbish, by definition if you live in the posh part of town sending your child to the local school is far more likely to be to an excellent school than parents sending their children to the local school in the rough part of town.

    Plus if you order a curry from an excellent restaurant surely you must abolish that too as it is more expensive than the customers who have to buy from the far less good curry house down the road?
    You might view education as akin to the restaurant trade but I don't.

    Re your more serious point, you are missing 2 key parts of the proposed reform. (i) Resource will be heavily skewed to schools in disadvantaged areas. (ii) Teaching will be a 'creme de la creme' profession. You probably know the Eric Cantona beer advert? So it will like that with "farmer" replaced by "teacher".

    Upshot, struggling schools invested in very seriously and staffed (via incentives) with the best teachers. Better than those in "easier" environments. A few years of this and what we see is gaps closing. And as gaps close, behaviour duly changes and gaps close further. A virtuous circle replaces a vicious one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENzkzKshpQ
    You want socialism in education, the left will not stop there but push for socialism for the whole economy too.

    You can spend as much money as you want on disadvantaged areas, without good head teachers and motivated pupils and parents it will not make much difference.

    Plus unless you pay every teacher a six figure salary and require most of them to have Oxbridge and Russell Group degrees it is never going to be an absolutely top profession like being a commercial lawyer or a surgeon or investment banker
    Besides which, were we not just arguing over how well teachers with Oxbridge degrees actually perform in the classroom?

    Pay teachers six-figures and a lot of us will go part-time. I know I would (in my case more part time than I am at the moment).

    It’s not the pay that would make a difference; smaller classes, less useless paperwork and more non-contact time to allow us to prepare better lessons (probably in that order) are what would make a big difference. It’s no coincidence that these are the things that the independent sector can provide.

    In fact I’ve probably missed out an even more important point as I am lucky enough to work in a good school (though “lucky” may be wrong: if it were not a good school I would probably have decided to go somewhere else or even do something else long ago). The ability to concentrate on teaching rather than “crowd control” as it was put earlier. Small classes help, though I did see a teacher lose control of a group of six. More important is good training and the knowledge that the senior team will back you up, but most important of all (and the part which state schools have the biggest problem with) is the ability to remove the small number of pupils that really don’t want to be there and don’t see why anyone else should be learning either.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841

    NEW THREAD

    Ooh I hope it's on the UK's address system.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    You've just crashed millions of school-related house prices at stroke.

    On which subject, a friend has just put their Dartmouth property on the market for 20-25% more than they were expecting. They have two viewings today. The agent expects it will be sold within 10 days. It's just flying out the door in south Devon.
    Yes - but that's a collateral benefit not the main point of it.

    Re a mini property boom, I do hope this is not to an extent because of the stamp duty concession. Overpay by £30k to save £15k. Such crazy things can and sometimes do happen in the housing market.
    Your plan will boost house prices even more, abolish private and grammar schools and middle class parents will pay a fortune for houses in the catchment areas of outstanding state comprehensive or academies
    I don't think so. Not in droves and not beyond the short term. But in any event I'm not framing an education policy with a view to its impact on house prices. They are enough of an obsession here to start with.
    Of course it will, middle class parents want the best schools for their children and will do anything to ensure that.
    Are you saying that working class parents dont want what’s best for their children?
    Most do but are less able to afford an expensive catchment area, grammars levelled the playing field
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    What we need now is bloody good shouting match about MGRS and Universal Transverse Mercator.

    It would certainly make us all easier to bomb. Boom! Boom! ;) (As Basil Brush used to say)
    It's not difficult - you only need to find two locations, apparently:
    A Brief Guide To Destroying The Royal Air Force
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2020/07/29/a-guide-to-destroying-the-royal-air-force/#986976e3ee91
    We, we are running the military down to a much smaller level. Soon it will be two biplanes, a trawler with a machine-gun on the front and the army will be two blokes called Nigel..
    @HYUFD will still be telling us all that we’re a superpower though.
    I have said I oppose defence cuts
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060

    The whole of the US economy decreased in size by 33% in 3 months? Really?
    I assume that’s the annualised rate.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,084

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    Utter rubbish, by definition if you live in the posh part of town sending your child to the local school is far more likely to be to an excellent school than parents sending their children to the local school in the rough part of town.

    Plus if you order a curry from an excellent restaurant surely you must abolish that too as it is more expensive than the customers who have to buy from the far less good curry house down the road?
    You might view education as akin to the restaurant trade but I don't.

    Re your more serious point, you are missing 2 key parts of the proposed reform. (i) Resource will be heavily skewed to schools in disadvantaged areas. (ii) Teaching will be a 'creme de la creme' profession. You probably know the Eric Cantona beer advert? So it will like that with "farmer" replaced by "teacher".

    Upshot, struggling schools invested in very seriously and staffed (via incentives) with the best teachers. Better than those in "easier" environments. A few years of this and what we see is gaps closing. And as gaps close, behaviour duly changes and gaps close further. A virtuous circle replaces a vicious one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENzkzKshpQ
    Well done. You’ve just created an incentive for schools to get the worst exam results that they can...
    That was pretty much the model for the 1st generation academies; stonking amounts of cash, in exchange for loss of previous identity and management. And mostly it worked; the "loss of previous identity" meant that no school would deliberately go down that route, but the schools relaunched in that way were able to attract the gentrifiers in (say) Hackney. And then you get the virtuous circle.

    Since 2010, the academy brand has been cheapened; now it's just a relaunched school. And without the stonking amounts of cash, the improvements are much patchier.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,629
    edited July 2020
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    Utter rubbish, by definition if you live in the posh part of town sending your child to the local school is far more likely to be to an excellent school than parents sending their children to the local school in the rough part of town.

    Plus if you order a curry from an excellent restaurant surely you must abolish that too as it is more expensive than the customers who have to buy from the far less good curry house down the road?
    You might view education as akin to the restaurant trade but I don't.

    Re your more serious point, you are missing 2 key parts of the proposed reform. (i) Resource will be heavily skewed to schools in disadvantaged areas. (ii) Teaching will be a 'creme de la creme' profession. You probably know the Eric Cantona beer advert? So it will like that with "farmer" replaced by "teacher".

    Upshot, struggling schools invested in very seriously and staffed (via incentives) with the best teachers. Better than those in "easier" environments. A few years of this and what we see is gaps closing. And as gaps close, behaviour duly changes and gaps close further. A virtuous circle replaces a vicious one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENzkzKshpQ
    You can pump as much money into deprived areas and pay teacher 7 figure salaries and it wont make a bit of difference, failing schools are most often not down to teacher quality or administration though those can be contributory.

    Failing schools come mostly down to disengaged kids who don't see the point in education and parents that support that outlook. Changing that is something you have ruled out before.

    I went to such a school and the thing that kept me learning wasn't the teaching it was the other kids who not only didn't want to learn they were determined no one else should either.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    Utter rubbish, by definition if you live in the posh part of town sending your child to the local school is far more likely to be to an excellent school than parents sending their children to the local school in the rough part of town.

    Plus if you order a curry from an excellent restaurant surely you must abolish that too as it is more expensive than the customers who have to buy from the far less good curry house down the road?
    You might view education as akin to the restaurant trade but I don't.

    Re your more serious point, you are missing 2 key parts of the proposed reform. (i) Resource will be heavily skewed to schools in disadvantaged areas. (ii) Teaching will be a 'creme de la creme' profession. You probably know the Eric Cantona beer advert? So it will like that with "farmer" replaced by "teacher".

    Upshot, struggling schools invested in very seriously and staffed (via incentives) with the best teachers. Better than those in "easier" environments. A few years of this and what we see is gaps closing. And as gaps close, behaviour duly changes and gaps close further. A virtuous circle replaces a vicious one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENzkzKshpQ
    Well done. You’ve just created an incentive for schools to get the worst exam results that they can...
    That was pretty much the model for the 1st generation academies; stonking amounts of cash, in exchange for loss of previous identity and management. And mostly it worked; the "loss of previous identity" meant that no school would deliberately go down that route, but the schools relaunched in that way were able to attract the gentrifiers in (say) Hackney. And then you get the virtuous circle.

    Since 2010, the academy brand has been cheapened; now it's just a relaunched school. And without the stonking amounts of cash, the improvements are much patchier.
    Round here they are none existant with the crap schools now in their third or fourth failing academic chain.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    Utter rubbish, by definition if you live in the posh part of town sending your child to the local school is far more likely to be to an excellent school than parents sending their children to the local school in the rough part of town.

    Plus if you order a curry from an excellent restaurant surely you must abolish that too as it is more expensive than the customers who have to buy from the far less good curry house down the road?
    You might view education as akin to the restaurant trade but I don't.

    Re your more serious point, you are missing 2 key parts of the proposed reform. (i) Resource will be heavily skewed to schools in disadvantaged areas. (ii) Teaching will be a 'creme de la creme' profession. You probably know the Eric Cantona beer advert? So it will like that with "farmer" replaced by "teacher".

    Upshot, struggling schools invested in very seriously and staffed (via incentives) with the best teachers. Better than those in "easier" environments. A few years of this and what we see is gaps closing. And as gaps close, behaviour duly changes and gaps close further. A virtuous circle replaces a vicious one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENzkzKshpQ
    You want socialism in education, the left will not stop there but push for socialism for the whole economy too.

    You can spend as much money as you want on disadvantaged areas, without good head teachers and motivated pupils and parents it will not make much difference.

    Plus unless you pay every teacher a six figure salary and require most of them to have Oxbridge and Russell Group degrees it is never going to be an absolutely top profession like being a commercial lawyer or a surgeon or investment banker
    I speak only for me rather than the left. And I certainly don't speak for Starmer's Labour - since I doubt they will have much interest in an egalitarian education policy.

    As for your objections - this won't work, that won't work, etc etc - I think you ought to channel some "Boris" and stop being such a doomster gloomster.
    I oppose socialism in education and the wider economy
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    IIRC Trump doesn't have the power to delay an election does he?

    It would require a constitutional amendment to change the election from the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November.

    The constitution allows Congress to alter the election date, the date on which the electoral college meets to vote, and the date on which Congress meets to count the votes by ordinary legislation, so Trump would require the House to consent, which of course it wouldn't.

    Even with House buy-in for a change of dates, the constitution fixes the date that the Presidential term ends as January 20th, so any change of dates would still have to have the process completed by then.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,853
    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    Interesting there is no mention of the Ordnance Survey NGR in all this talk of postcodes (understandably) and lying on Rannoch Moor in the dark with a broken leg (much less understandably).

    The main complaint from the Mountain Rescue in Cumbria is people only calling when they phones are already dead as they've used the battery up using the phone as a map...
    That's why I carry a phone for mapping, and a different (non-smart) phone as an emergency phone when out in the hills. Obviously I also carry a paper map, even if it isn't kept out.

    Lat Long is useless because the grid isn't printed on any maps we actually use in the UK, so you can't actually give it out without a GPS, or find the location given without a computer of some kind. W3W is bad for the same reason.

    Mind you, apparently 999 aren't so hot on taking down an OS grid reference these days either...

  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,911
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    Fishing said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    Because the public voted for them?
    The public voted for them once the choice had been narrowed down to 2.

    The dominance of Eton would be fine if it was a school where you got in by virtue of your own intelligence but an Eton education frequently gets people into positions that they would never achieve on merit.
    You have to pass an entrance exam to get into Eton and they also provide scholarships
    God you are so naive
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847
    nichomar said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    Utter rubbish, by definition if you live in the posh part of town sending your child to the local school is far more likely to be to an excellent school than parents sending their children to the local school in the rough part of town.

    Plus if you order a curry from an excellent restaurant surely you must abolish that too as it is more expensive than the customers who have to buy from the far less good curry house down the road?
    You might view education as akin to the restaurant trade but I don't.

    Re your more serious point, you are missing 2 key parts of the proposed reform. (i) Resource will be heavily skewed to schools in disadvantaged areas. (ii) Teaching will be a 'creme de la creme' profession. You probably know the Eric Cantona beer advert? So it will like that with "farmer" replaced by "teacher".

    Upshot, struggling schools invested in very seriously and staffed (via incentives) with the best teachers. Better than those in "easier" environments. A few years of this and what we see is gaps closing. And as gaps close, behaviour duly changes and gaps close further. A virtuous circle replaces a vicious one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENzkzKshpQ
    As long as certain sections of society can ensure good education for their children then the rest can get stuffed, why should they care they are ok.
    The challenge is to convince the majority they will benefit from a level playing field. Sounds easy but in practice it is fiendishly difficult. "It's Class War!" is a potent cry. In England we don't like the sound of that sort of thing.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,084
    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    Utter rubbish, by definition if you live in the posh part of town sending your child to the local school is far more likely to be to an excellent school than parents sending their children to the local school in the rough part of town.

    Plus if you order a curry from an excellent restaurant surely you must abolish that too as it is more expensive than the customers who have to buy from the far less good curry house down the road?
    You might view education as akin to the restaurant trade but I don't.

    Re your more serious point, you are missing 2 key parts of the proposed reform. (i) Resource will be heavily skewed to schools in disadvantaged areas. (ii) Teaching will be a 'creme de la creme' profession. You probably know the Eric Cantona beer advert? So it will like that with "farmer" replaced by "teacher".

    Upshot, struggling schools invested in very seriously and staffed (via incentives) with the best teachers. Better than those in "easier" environments. A few years of this and what we see is gaps closing. And as gaps close, behaviour duly changes and gaps close further. A virtuous circle replaces a vicious one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENzkzKshpQ
    Well done. You’ve just created an incentive for schools to get the worst exam results that they can...
    That was pretty much the model for the 1st generation academies; stonking amounts of cash, in exchange for loss of previous identity and management. And mostly it worked; the "loss of previous identity" meant that no school would deliberately go down that route, but the schools relaunched in that way were able to attract the gentrifiers in (say) Hackney. And then you get the virtuous circle.

    Since 2010, the academy brand has been cheapened; now it's just a relaunched school. And without the stonking amounts of cash, the improvements are much patchier.
    Round here they are none existant with the crap schools now in their third or fourth failing academic chain.
    And that's the point. Improving schools is hard, because a lot of the things that make a school good are outside the control of the school.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    Utter rubbish, by definition if you live in the posh part of town sending your child to the local school is far more likely to be to an excellent school than parents sending their children to the local school in the rough part of town.

    Plus if you order a curry from an excellent restaurant surely you must abolish that too as it is more expensive than the customers who have to buy from the far less good curry house down the road?
    You might view education as akin to the restaurant trade but I don't.

    Re your more serious point, you are missing 2 key parts of the proposed reform. (i) Resource will be heavily skewed to schools in disadvantaged areas. (ii) Teaching will be a 'creme de la creme' profession. You probably know the Eric Cantona beer advert? So it will like that with "farmer" replaced by "teacher".

    Upshot, struggling schools invested in very seriously and staffed (via incentives) with the best teachers. Better than those in "easier" environments. A few years of this and what we see is gaps closing. And as gaps close, behaviour duly changes and gaps close further. A virtuous circle replaces a vicious one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENzkzKshpQ
    You want socialism in education, the left will not stop there but push for socialism for the whole economy too.

    You can spend as much money as you want on disadvantaged areas, without good head teachers and motivated pupils and parents it will not make much difference.

    Plus unless you pay every teacher a six figure salary and require most of them to have Oxbridge and Russell Group degrees it is never going to be an absolutely top profession like being a commercial lawyer or a surgeon or investment banker
    I speak only for me rather than the left. And I certainly don't speak for Starmer's Labour - since I doubt they will have much interest in an egalitarian education policy.

    As for your objections - this won't work, that won't work, etc etc - I think you ought to channel some "Boris" and stop being such a doomster gloomster.
    I oppose socialism in education and the wider economy
    Ah ha. So you'd oppose it even if it DID work. The objections are dressed up as practical but are actually ideological. Ah ha.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847
    Pagan2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    Utter rubbish, by definition if you live in the posh part of town sending your child to the local school is far more likely to be to an excellent school than parents sending their children to the local school in the rough part of town.

    Plus if you order a curry from an excellent restaurant surely you must abolish that too as it is more expensive than the customers who have to buy from the far less good curry house down the road?
    You might view education as akin to the restaurant trade but I don't.

    Re your more serious point, you are missing 2 key parts of the proposed reform. (i) Resource will be heavily skewed to schools in disadvantaged areas. (ii) Teaching will be a 'creme de la creme' profession. You probably know the Eric Cantona beer advert? So it will like that with "farmer" replaced by "teacher".

    Upshot, struggling schools invested in very seriously and staffed (via incentives) with the best teachers. Better than those in "easier" environments. A few years of this and what we see is gaps closing. And as gaps close, behaviour duly changes and gaps close further. A virtuous circle replaces a vicious one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENzkzKshpQ
    You can pump as much money into deprived areas and pay teacher 7 figure salaries and it wont make a bit of difference, failing schools are most often not down to teacher quality or administration though those can be contributory.

    Failing schools come mostly down to disengaged kids who don't see the point in education and parents that support that outlook. Changing that is something you have ruled out before.

    I went to such a school and the thing that kept me learning wasn't the teaching it was the other kids who not only didn't want to learn they were determined no one else should either.
    So we want schools to start having greater influence over these kids than the parents.

    My reforms will - over time - have that effect.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    You've just crashed millions of school-related house prices at stroke.

    On which subject, a friend has just put their Dartmouth property on the market for 20-25% more than they were expecting. They have two viewings today. The agent expects it will be sold within 10 days. It's just flying out the door in south Devon.
    Yes - but that's a collateral benefit not the main point of it.

    Re a mini property boom, I do hope this is not to an extent because of the stamp duty concession. Overpay by £30k to save £15k. Such crazy things can and sometimes do happen in the housing market.
    Your plan will boost house prices even more, abolish private and grammar schools and middle class parents will pay a fortune for houses in the catchment areas of outstanding state comprehensive or academies
    I don't think so. Not in droves and not beyond the short term. But in any event I'm not framing an education policy with a view to its impact on house prices. They are enough of an obsession here to start with.
    Of course it will, middle class parents want the best schools for their children and will do anything to ensure that.
    They won't do anything - c'mon. They're not guerrilla freedom fighters.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,847

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    Utter rubbish, by definition if you live in the posh part of town sending your child to the local school is far more likely to be to an excellent school than parents sending their children to the local school in the rough part of town.

    Plus if you order a curry from an excellent restaurant surely you must abolish that too as it is more expensive than the customers who have to buy from the far less good curry house down the road?
    You might view education as akin to the restaurant trade but I don't.

    Re your more serious point, you are missing 2 key parts of the proposed reform. (i) Resource will be heavily skewed to schools in disadvantaged areas. (ii) Teaching will be a 'creme de la creme' profession. You probably know the Eric Cantona beer advert? So it will like that with "farmer" replaced by "teacher".

    Upshot, struggling schools invested in very seriously and staffed (via incentives) with the best teachers. Better than those in "easier" environments. A few years of this and what we see is gaps closing. And as gaps close, behaviour duly changes and gaps close further. A virtuous circle replaces a vicious one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENzkzKshpQ
    Well done. You’ve just created an incentive for schools to get the worst exam results that they can...
    You are way too cynical. Teachers with that attitude will be weeded out pronto!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    kamski said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    The dominance of Eton in Tory PMs is even greater when one remembers that PMs Thatcher and (possibly, in terms of admitting females to the sixth form at the time?) May were disqualified from Eton anyway by being girls.

    Stonking point. Thus of the last 7 eligible Tory PMs, FIVE (!) went to Eton. A scandal really when you stop to think about it. How on earth can this be?
    I see no scandal. It simply shows that Eton is a good school and should be encouraged to be as good as it can be so that the public sector can learn from it.
    Hilarious trolling.
    I dunno. If teachers were paid double what they are in the state sector and had a 1:7 SSR (without checking) I think many of our educational problems would disappear.
    Is that a policy you support then - you being paid double?
    I’d settle for that SSR myself.

    I’ve seen a lot of my colleagues head off to the independent sector over the years. Possibly half of the ones that don’t leave by retirement.
    Maybe not double (salary) but I will launch myself into your good books by saying that imo the transformation of teaching into a high status high pay profession to rank with law and medicine is my silver bullet along with 100% comps, no privates, resource skewed towards disadvantaged areas.

    "Mum, I've decided to become an investment banker."

    "Oh, Ok darling. I see."

    "You don't seem pleased."

    "It's not that. It's just that you're so bright and everything - me and your father were rather hoping you might aim a little higher than that. Try and get into teaching even."
    Unless you make all comps outstanding that is never happening, middle class parents will not touch inadequate or requires improvement comps with a bargepole
    They will need to elevate and keep their eyes on the prize.
    By sending their children private to a grammar or by buying a house in an outstanding comp or academy catchment area or going to church more often to get a vicar's note to get into one
    There will be little or none of that as I envisage things. Certainly no vicar involvement. What there will be is a transformed social and educational landscape.

    "Where did you go to school?"

    "Er, what do you mean? ... I went to school."

    THIS is the prize.
    I know, you want to abolish all private schools, grammar schools and religious schools.

    However to get true equality you will also have to abolish all outstanding or even just good comprehensives and academies too, we cannot have anyone getting an advantage now can we.

    Which would end up about as effective as abolishing Waitrose, Marks and Spencer and Sainsburys and making everyone shop at Lidl or Asda
    I prefer to focus on what is being created. Every child going to their excellent local school. All catered for and given the chance to blossom. Flexible. Diverse. All the angst and division around eduction that we see today eliminated along with its toxic propagation of class inequality. As I say - a great prize.

    "Where should we send Peter to school, honey?"
    "Er, what are you talking about, where? - he's going to school."
    "Oh right. So I guess we don't have to obsess about it for ages then."
    "Correct. Fancy a curry tonight?"
    Utter rubbish, by definition if you live in the posh part of town sending your child to the local school is far more likely to be to an excellent school than parents sending their children to the local school in the rough part of town.

    Plus if you order a curry from an excellent restaurant surely you must abolish that too as it is more expensive than the customers who have to buy from the far less good curry house down the road?
    You might view education as akin to the restaurant trade but I don't.

    Re your more serious point, you are missing 2 key parts of the proposed reform. (i) Resource will be heavily skewed to schools in disadvantaged areas. (ii) Teaching will be a 'creme de la creme' profession. You probably know the Eric Cantona beer advert? So it will like that with "farmer" replaced by "teacher".

    Upshot, struggling schools invested in very seriously and staffed (via incentives) with the best teachers. Better than those in "easier" environments. A few years of this and what we see is gaps closing. And as gaps close, behaviour duly changes and gaps close further. A virtuous circle replaces a vicious one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QENzkzKshpQ
    Well done. You’ve just created an incentive for schools to get the worst exam results that they can...
    You are way too cynical. Teachers with that attitude will be weeded out pronto!
    Hey - I know it's easier for you if no one can see your posts but we're all over on the other thread...
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,555
    edited July 2020
    snip
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092

    The whole of the US economy decreased in size by 33% in 3 months? Really?
    The danger of annualising quarterly figures...

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