Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Senior Republicans not enthused by Trump’s postpone the electi

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited July 30 in General
imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Senior Republicans not enthused by Trump’s postpone the election move

The only way that Trump’s controversial postpone the election move could become a reality would be if senior Republicans were ready to go along with it. So far that backing seems to be absent.

Read the full story here

«1

Comments

  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 1,873
    ...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,085
    The GOP knows that Trump is going to lose. Its time to distance themselves from the sinking ship.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    Not a move, it's smoke up the you-know-what.

    Republicans already have enough trouble without acting like they are going to go for the King Donald routine.

    Bet they are wishing they'd have disassociated themselves earlier and oftener.

    BUT they sold what was left of their shriveled souls for corporate tax breaks, loosened environmental & other regulations, and federal judicial nominations.

    AND now it's simply too late. Just like it was for the GOP and Hoover back in 1932.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 6,454
    edited July 30

    The GOP knows that Trump is going to lose. Its time to distance themselves from the sinking ship.

    I think it could still go either way. Last time the Democrats were up by 2.4 points in RCP's "top battlegrounds". Atm it's 5.4 points.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/trump-vs-biden-top-battleground-states-2020-vs-2016/
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,026
    edited July 30
    The fact that it's still possible Trump could win makes you wonder how bad does a Republican President have to be to be unelectable.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 14,734
    What will Trump try next to get his way, prorogue congress? ;)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,085
    Andy_JS said:

    The GOP knows that Trump is going to lose. Its time to distance themselves from the sinking ship.

    I think it could still go either way. Last time the Democrats were up by 2.4 points in RCP's "top battlegrounds". Atm it's 5.4 points.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/trump-vs-biden-top-battleground-states-2020-vs-2016/
    That's a considerable difference.

    And Biden is no Hillary.

    I have a feeling this is going to be like the 2019 election. Trump is Corbyn (but he actually narrowly won against the odds rather than lost but made it hung parliament); Hillary is May. I don't think Biden and Boris is a great comparison though.

    Because of the prior result people are disbelieving the polls and expecting a second shock because it happened the first time. I don't think its going to happen though. I certainly hope not.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 3,445
    Start one minute in. Pure entertainment ;)

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    edited July 30
    ARIZONA 2020

    Looks like another Republican is gonna bite the big weenie - US Rep. Davide Schweikert of Arizona CD06 has today admitted to 11 serious ethics violations.

    He's the only Republican running in August 4 Primary. On Democratic side, several challengers, most likely winner appears to be emergency room doctor Hiral Tipirneni, who as of the end of June had $1.6m cash on hand, compared with $240k for the incumbent.

    BTW, here's the percents Schweikert got in recent general elections:

    2016 - 62.1% 2018 - 55.2%

    For 2020, Rep. Schweikert sure looks like he's an endangered species . . . and that voters are preparing to nail his nasty pecker to the wall.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,085
    edited July 30
    FPT
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:



    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    My Man Evan McMullin (probably my best value loser after my Stein vote percentage bet) nails it in one

    Yes, lots of Nazis in WW1...
    There 30, 000+ in the cemetery. Less than 100 are WW1 casualties.
    That's OK then. Let's all laugh at 29,900 dead Germans.

    You do realise that not everybody in the Wehrmacht was a Nazi? And that many if not most of them were conscripts and therefore by any reasonable definition, victims of Nazism?
    The Wehrmacht were not innocents in WW2. Particularly on the Eastern Front they were involved in atrocities and war crimes, though that does not mean every single soldier was. Nor does it mean that every soldier was a card-carrying Nazi. But I thought that every soldier had to swear a personal oath of loyalty to Hitler, no?
    I'm guessing it was that or an injection of lead into the back of the head.

    Nobody is mourning Nazis, but remembering the war dead and saying we want to avoid the horrors of war going forwards . . . how has that become a political issue?
    No, there is no record of the Wehrmacht executing soldiers who refused to kill prisoners or civilians:

    https://www.deseret.com/1995/3/9/19163367/holocaust-those-who-defied-orders-to-kill-jews-did-not-die-researcher-says-at-byu
    How is that relevant to why they are in the cemetery?

    I thought it was a cemetery for dead soldiers killed by the war, not a cemetery dedicated to only those who killed prisoners or civilians?
    Because the Wehrmacht was intimately involved in those atrocities.

    My brother married a German woman who had two uncles die on the Eastern front, but as my father pointed out (out of earshot!) they shouldn't have been there in the first place. I agree.
    Of course they shouldn't have been, but dead is dead and we should respect the dead and remember the horrors of war.

    This quote seems rather apt from when Reagan visited a cemetery with Kohl (from Wiki).

    Reagan was criticized for this statement by opponents of the visit. Equating Nazi soldiers with Holocaust victims, responded Rabbi Alexander M. Schindler, president of the Union of American Hebrew Congregations, was "a callous offense for the Jewish people." Some critics claimed that Communications Director Pat Buchanan wrote the statement, which he denied in 1999.[3] Kohl confirmed an earlier press comment that in the last days of the war he was able to avoid service in the SS because he was only 15, "but they hanged a boy from a tree who was perhaps only two years older with a sign saying 'traitor' because he had tried to run away rather than serve."

    Kohl made a call to the White House days before Reagan's visit to make sure the President was not wavering in the face of criticism, not to mention pressure from wife, Nancy. The Chancellor's aide, Horst Teltschik later said: "Once we knew about the SS dead at Bitburg – knowing that these SS people were seventeen to eighteen years of age, and knowing that some Germans were forced to become members of the SS, having no alternative – the question was, Should this be a reason to cancel?" Reagan aide Robert McFarlane later said: "Once Reagan learned that Kohl would really be badly damaged by a withdrawal, he said 'We can't do that; I owe him.'" Prior to sending Deaver back to West Germany for the third time, just two days before the scheduled visit, Reagan told his deputy chief of staff: "I know you and Nancy don't want me to go through with this, but I don't want you to change anything when you get over there, because history will prove I'm right. If we can't reconcile after forty years, we are never going to be able to do it."


    That was 35 years ago he said that! If we can't reconcile after seventy five years, when are we ever going to be able to do it?

    Its been seventy five years since the war ended. Can we still not let the dead rest in peace yet? Mourning the dead and saying we want to avoid war is not suggesting the atrocities of the Nazis or WWII were OK. Lets leave the past in the past now, WWII is over.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,264
    We need Donald's strong leadership.

    No election before COVID is finished!
  • Andy_JS said:

    The GOP knows that Trump is going to lose. Its time to distance themselves from the sinking ship.

    I think it could still go either way. Last time the Democrats were up by 2.4 points in RCP's "top battlegrounds". Atm it's 5.4 points.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/trump-vs-biden-top-battleground-states-2020-vs-2016/
    That's a considerable difference.

    And Biden is no Hillary.

    I have a feeling this is going to be like the 2019 election. Trump is Corbyn (but he actually narrowly won against the odds rather than lost but made it hung parliament); Hillary is May. I don't think Biden and Boris is a great comparison though.

    Because of the prior result people are disbelieving the polls and expecting a second shock because it happened the first time. I don't think its going to happen though. I certainly hope not.
    I tend to agree.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 17,898

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:



    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    My Man Evan McMullin (probably my best value loser after my Stein vote percentage bet) nails it in one

    Yes, lots of Nazis in WW1...
    There 30, 000+ in the cemetery. Less than 100 are WW1 casualties.
    That's OK then. Let's all laugh at 29,900 dead Germans.

    You do realise that not everybody in the Wehrmacht was a Nazi? And that many if not most of them were conscripts and therefore by any reasonable definition, victims of Nazism?
    The Wehrmacht were not innocents in WW2. Particularly on the Eastern Front they were involved in atrocities and war crimes, though that does not mean every single soldier was. Nor does it mean that every soldier was a card-carrying Nazi. But I thought that every soldier had to swear a personal oath of loyalty to Hitler, no?
    I'm guessing it was that or an injection of lead into the back of the head.

    Nobody is mourning Nazis, but remembering the war dead and saying we want to avoid the horrors of war going forwards . . . how has that become a political issue?
    No, there is no record of the Wehrmacht executing soldiers who refused to kill prisoners or civilians:

    https://www.deseret.com/1995/3/9/19163367/holocaust-those-who-defied-orders-to-kill-jews-did-not-die-researcher-says-at-byu
    How is that relevant to why they are in the cemetery?

    I thought it was a cemetery for dead soldiers killed by the war, not a cemetery dedicated to only those who killed prisoners or civilians?
    Because the Wehrmacht was intimately involved in those atrocities.

    My brother married a German woman who had two uncles die on the Eastern front, but as my father pointed out (out of earshot!) they shouldn't have been there in the first place. I agree.
    Of course they shouldn't have been, but dead is dead and we should respect the dead and remember the horrors of war.

    This quote seems rather apt from when Reagan visited a cemetery with Kohl (from Wiki.

    Reagan was criticized for this statement by opponents of the visit. Equating Nazi soldiers with Holocaust victims, responded Rabbi Alexander M. Schindler, president of the Union of American Hebrew Congregations, was "a callous offense for the Jewish people." Some critics claimed that Communications Director Pat Buchanan wrote the statement, which he denied in 1999.[3] Kohl confirmed an earlier press comment that in the last days of the war he was able to avoid service in the SS because he was only 15, "but they hanged a boy from a tree who was perhaps only two years older with a sign saying 'traitor' because he had tried to run away rather than serve."

    Kohl made a call to the White House days before Reagan's visit to make sure the President was not wavering in the face of criticism, not to mention pressure from wife, Nancy. The Chancellor's aide, Horst Teltschik later said: "Once we knew about the SS dead at Bitburg – knowing that these SS people were seventeen to eighteen years of age, and knowing that some Germans were forced to become members of the SS, having no alternative – the question was, Should this be a reason to cancel?" Reagan aide Robert McFarlane later said: "Once Reagan learned that Kohl would really be badly damaged by a withdrawal, he said 'We can't do that; I owe him.'" Prior to sending Deaver back to West Germany for the third time, just two days before the scheduled visit, Reagan told his deputy chief of staff: "I know you and Nancy don't want me to go through with this, but I don't want you to change anything when you get over there, because history will prove I'm right. If we can't reconcile after forty years, we are never going to be able to do it."


    That was 35 years ago he said that! If we can't reconcile after seventy five years, when are we ever going to be able to do it?

    Its been seventy five years since the war ended. Can we still not let the dead rest in peace yet? Mourning the dead and saying we want to avoid war is not suggesting the atrocities of the Nazis or WWII were OK. Lets leave the past in the past now, WWII is over.
    While I share the general sentiment that the war is history it’s important to note that this is a Western European view. WW2 was not really over for Eastern Europe or Germany until 1989 and that informs their politics and, therefore, European politics in a way which we perhaps don’t really understand here in Britain, especially with our obsessive (and to my mind, excessive) focus on 1940 and all that.
  • TresTres Posts: 137
    edited July 30
    The incident inspired the classic Ramones hit Bonzo Goes to Bitburg.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 7,372
    edited July 30

    Andy_JS said:

    The GOP knows that Trump is going to lose. Its time to distance themselves from the sinking ship.

    I think it could still go either way. Last time the Democrats were up by 2.4 points in RCP's "top battlegrounds". Atm it's 5.4 points.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/trump-vs-biden-top-battleground-states-2020-vs-2016/
    That's a considerable difference.

    And Biden is no Hillary.

    I have a feeling this is going to be like the 2019 election. Trump is Corbyn (but he actually narrowly won against the odds rather than lost but made it hung parliament); Hillary is May. I don't think Biden and Boris is a great comparison though.

    Because of the prior result people are disbelieving the polls and expecting a second shock because it happened the first time. I don't think its going to happen though. I certainly hope not.
    The pieces of the electoral jigsaw fell perfectly for Trump last time.
    They need to again.
    Or, rather they need not to.
    One big difference is Sanders. He had a legitimate grievance last time.
    This time he is four square behind Biden having been entirely fairly beaten.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 3,445
    Cyclefree said:

    While I share the general sentiment that the war is history it’s important to note that this is a Western European view. WW2 was not really over for Eastern Europe or Germany until 1989 and that informs their politics and, therefore, European politics in a way which we perhaps don’t really understand here in Britain, especially with our obsessive (and to my mind, excessive) focus on 1940 and all that.

    Brexit is an extension of WW2 by other means... (apologies to von Clausewitz ;) )
  • isamisam Posts: 33,119
    edited July 30
    Twitter seems to be full of Muslims angry at the government shutting down those areas @Malmesbury lists, when Eid is round the corner
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,085
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The GOP knows that Trump is going to lose. Its time to distance themselves from the sinking ship.

    I think it could still go either way. Last time the Democrats were up by 2.4 points in RCP's "top battlegrounds". Atm it's 5.4 points.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/trump-vs-biden-top-battleground-states-2020-vs-2016/
    That's a considerable difference.

    And Biden is no Hillary.

    I have a feeling this is going to be like the 2019 election. Trump is Corbyn (but he actually narrowly won against the odds rather than lost but made it hung parliament); Hillary is May. I don't think Biden and Boris is a great comparison though.

    Because of the prior result people are disbelieving the polls and expecting a second shock because it happened the first time. I don't think its going to happen though. I certainly hope not.
    The pieces of the electoral jigsaw fell perfectly for Trump last time.
    They need to again.
    Or, rather they need not to.
    One big difference is Sanders. He had a legitimate grievance last time.
    This time he is four square behind Biden having been entirely fairly beaten.
    To be fair to Hillary, she fairly beat Sanders last time too.

    But I think Sanders felt he could ride the grievance train for all its worth as she was going to be President anyway as Trump was just a joke. This time, nobody is laughing anymore.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,085
    isam said:

    Twitter seems to be full of Muslims angry at the government shutting down those areas @Malmesbury lists, when Eid is round the corner

    Twitter is not Britain. Though maybe it is who you are following?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 55,331
    isam said:

    Twitter seems to be full of Muslims angry at the government shutting down those areas @Malmesbury lists, when Eid is round the corner

    Tough. Pretty sure most people get it.
  • BournvilleBournville Posts: 34
    isam said:

    Twitter seems to be full of Muslims angry at the government shutting down those areas @Malmesbury lists, when Eid is round the corner

    Twitter would have been even angrier in mid August if predominantly Muslim communities were experiencing a new surge in coronavirus cases and it looked like the Government had done nothing to try and stop it.
  • isamisam Posts: 33,119

    isam said:

    Twitter seems to be full of Muslims angry at the government shutting down those areas @Malmesbury lists, when Eid is round the corner

    Twitter is not Britain. Though maybe it is who you are following?
    No one I’m following, I’m just reading the trending tweets
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,902
    It looks as if we can meet our neighbours in pubs, but not in their garden, or can meet them for a swim in Greece, but not in Saffron Lane Leisure Centre...

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 8,300
    edited July 30
    @Philip_Thompson for your information, whilst Ashley may have not imposed ridiculous debts on the club, although we do have some debt to him, the real crime is negligent mismanagement.

    When Ashley took over, Spurs and Newcastle had similar commercial revenue, and were both on the same level, and we were one of the richest clubs in Europe. In that time, our commercial revenue has plunged to one of the lowest in the league.

    Likewise, he’s had 13 years worth of prime, free sponsorship, primarily in the premier league. How much is that worth in missed revenue? We receive no income from the club shop or advertisement in the stadium. It goes directly to Sports Direct.

    By the way @dixiedean the Freeman of Newcastle upon Tyne own the land St James Park sits on (not the council), but the club does own the stadium itself.
  • TresTres Posts: 137
    Twitter seems to be full of former Republicans angry at Trump talking about delaying the election. Can they impeach him again?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,085
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Twitter seems to be full of Muslims angry at the government shutting down those areas @Malmesbury lists, when Eid is round the corner

    Twitter is not Britain. Though maybe it is who you are following?
    No one I’m following, I’m just reading the trending tweets
    I don't really use Twitter other than to follow links from here, but if I look at trending Tweets I'm not seeing anything religious whatsoever. Instead a lot of things like this:

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 55,331
    Foxy said:

    It looks as if we can meet our neighbours in pubs, but not in their garden, or can meet them for a swim in Greece, but not in Saffron Lane Leisure Centre...

    My area hasn't opened leisure centres yet (some of them soon though), and didn't even have a second lockdown.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 7,372
    Kieran Dowell. 22. Outstanding on loan past 2 seasons in Championship for Forest and Wigan. Everton product. World Cup winner. Midfielder which is our great weakness. 5 first team appearances for EFC.
    Signs permanently for Norwich.
    This is why we are crap.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    AUGUST 4 2020 PRIMARY ELECTIONS - ARIZONA, MICHIGAN, WASHINGTON STATE

    MICHIGAN - from Detroit Free Press

    As always, the even-year August primary is marked by partisan contests for congressional seats and in the last six years, Michigan voters have seen huge changes, with nine of the state’s 14 seats being filled by new U.S. representatives. While that kind of change doesn’t appear to be on tap in this year’s balloting, Michigan is certain to get two new members of Congress — in west Michigan where U.S. Rep. Justin Amash, L-Cascade Township, has decided not to run for reelection and in the Thumb and northern Macomb County, where U.S. Rep. Paul Mitchell, R-Dryden, is stepping down.

    The Aug. 4 primaries in both will help determine who replaces them in Congress. And while there won’t be a primary in the race for one of Michigan’s U.S. Senate seats — Republican businessman John James has a clear field to face sitting U.S. Sen. Gary Peters, D-Mich., in what will be a nationally watched race in November’s general election — there are several others in which contested primaries will determine the makeup of the state delegation or set up intriguing matchups for November.

    It will also be one of the last two elections (with the general election) with the current congressional district configurations. Michigan is expected to lose a seat in Congress once the Census is completed this year and new district lines will be drawn next year by a state commission created by a state referendum.

    WOLVERINE STATE TRIFECTA (SSI based on DFP)

    CD 03 (Grand Rapids) - incumbent Never Trump Republican Justin Amash NOT running for re-election. Large field of eager GOPers in Republican primary, including Peter Meijer, Iraq War vet & chain grocery heir; state Rep. Lynn Afendoulis. Democratic hopeful is Hillary Scholten, who has a fighting chance of scoring an upset thanks to anti-Trump wave in district about half suburban, half rural.

    CD 10 (Sarnia, Saginaw (part), Detroit exurbs, The Thumb) - incumbent GOP businessman spent $3m to win seat in 2016, now retiring. Leading contenders for Republican nomination in this reliably Republican district include state Rep. Shane Hernandez, businesswoman Lisa McClain, and Doug Slocum, USAF retired &, former commander at Selfridge Air National Guard Base in the district. Incumbent endorsed Hernandez, while McClain running as super-Trumper.

    CD 13 (Detroit) - incumbent Democrat Rashida Tlaib versus Detroit city council president Brenda Jones; this is rematch, 4th in 2 years, for the pair in this heavily Democratic district. Tlaib has national fame thanks to Trumpsky, but Jones is seasoned veteran of Mo Town politics.

  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 1,873

    The hysterical reaction to the Government reintroducing very limited guidance for a very small area of the country to try and reduce the R rate is exactly why the Government didn't try to immediately introduce very severe guidance for the entire country to reduce the R rate back in March.

    Immediate sweeping responses might work in countries with a functioning media operating in good faith; sadly, we don't have that.

    They did it by tweet at 10 at night for 12.

    They have an actual government page for local.lockdowns ffs. It has no guidance to accompany this whatsoever.

    They met earlier today - the least they could have done is written it up properly. They have an entire civil service if they deign to use it.

    Genuine confusion about whether pubs and restaurants were included, or even if gardens are, as Burnham understood.

    The government messed this up big style, they have no concept of good administration, so don't dare sugar coat it, it's an omnishambles.
  • isamisam Posts: 33,119

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Twitter seems to be full of Muslims angry at the government shutting down those areas @Malmesbury lists, when Eid is round the corner

    Twitter is not Britain. Though maybe it is who you are following?
    No one I’m following, I’m just reading the trending tweets
    I don't really use Twitter other than to follow links from here, but if I look at trending Tweets I'm not seeing anything religious whatsoever. Instead a lot of things like this:







  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 6,454
    I wish I lived in Sweden.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,085
    edited July 30

    @Philip_Thompson for your information, whilst Ashley may have not imposed ridiculous debts on the club, although we do have some debt to him, the real crime is negligent mismanagement.

    When Ashley took over, Spurs and Newcastle had similar commercial revenue, and were both on the same level, and we were one of the richest clubs in Europe. In that time, our commercial revenue has plunged to one of the lowest in the league.

    Likewise, he’s had 13 years worth of prime, free sponsorship, primarily in the premier league. How much is that worth in missed revenue? We receive no income from the club shop or advertisement in the stadium. It goes directly to Sports Direct.

    By the way @dixiedean the Freeman of Newcastle upon Tyne own the land St James Park sits on (not the council), but the club does own the stadium itself.

    Indeed, but it could have been worse. Yes you could have been Spurs, but you could have also been Leeds.

    As for sponsorship, that's the thing I never understood fully. Sponsorship is generally to win customers over. To transfer allegiance from the club to the product you're trying to sell. I used to drink Carlsberg during the football. But Newcastle fans hate Ashley, they despise him. I don't know a single Newcastle fan with a good word to say about him. I'd have thought Newcastle fans would be less likely to shop at Sports Direct because of him, not more likely to do so.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 6,454
    edited July 30
    If Trump had said: "I'm definitely not postponing the election no matter how bad the Covid-19 situation gets", what are the chances his opponents would be describing him as irresponsible? The London mayoral election and local elections this year were postponed for the same reason.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 5,764
    edited July 30
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Twitter seems to be full of Muslims angry at the government shutting down those areas @Malmesbury lists, when Eid is round the corner

    Twitter is not Britain. Though maybe it is who you are following?
    No one I’m following, I’m just reading the trending tweets
    The final word on Twitter -

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 55,331
    edited July 30
    Andy_JS said:

    If Trump had said "I'm definitely not postponing the election no matter how bad the Covid-19 situation gets", what are the chances his opponents would be describing him as irresponsible?

    Not as much as you evidently think, given the particular history of the United States when it comes to undertaking elections come rain or shine. You can pretend it is just his opponents as well, if that helps you.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 3,445
    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 8,300

    @Philip_Thompson for your information, whilst Ashley may have not imposed ridiculous debts on the club, although we do have some debt to him, the real crime is negligent mismanagement.

    When Ashley took over, Spurs and Newcastle had similar commercial revenue, and were both on the same level, and we were one of the richest clubs in Europe. In that time, our commercial revenue has plunged to one of the lowest in the league.

    Likewise, he’s had 13 years worth of prime, free sponsorship, primarily in the premier league. How much is that worth in missed revenue? We receive no income from the club shop or advertisement in the stadium. It goes directly to Sports Direct.

    By the way @dixiedean the Freeman of Newcastle upon Tyne own the land St James Park sits on (not the council), but the club does own the stadium itself.

    Indeed, but it could have been worse. Yes you could have been Spurs, but you could have also been Leeds.

    As for as sponsorship, that's the thing I never understood fully. Sponsorship is generally to win customers over. To transfer allegiance from the club to the product you're trying to sell. I used to drink Carlsberg during the football. But Newcastle fans hate Ashley, they despise him. I don't know a single Newcastle fan with a good word to say about him. I'd have thought Newcastle fans would be less likely to shop at Sports Direct because of him, not more likely to do so.
    Not this “could have been Leeds” bullsh*t. There’s a huge gulf between wanting to maximise the club’s potential and saddling it with debt i.e. Leeds.

    It’s not about “could have been Spurs”. We WERE Spurs. We were simply negligently mismanaged into the ground. We are a shell of a club from when Ashley took over.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,501
    No sitting US President has ever called into question the results of an upcoming election . It’s easy to become desensitized to Trumps antics over the last 4 years but he clearly couldn’t care if he started a civil war as long as he remained President. He really is the most disgusting and loathsome individual.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,902
    Andy_JS said:

    I wish I lived in Sweden.

    If we kept freedom of movement then you could. Bit late now, but might scrape it if you move before Dec.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 55,331

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Twitter seems to be full of Muslims angry at the government shutting down those areas @Malmesbury lists, when Eid is round the corner

    Twitter is not Britain. Though maybe it is who you are following?
    No one I’m following, I’m just reading the trending tweets
    The final word on Twitter -

    I just don't see the benefit to politicians in writing tweets, even if they benefit from being on twitter to follow people, and a lot of downsides as so many chances to make yourself look stupid.

    It's the same reason I strictly limit my post numbers.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,085
    Did you put Eid in as a keyword?

    Again Twitter is not Britain. People say loads of things on Twitter.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 5,764

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.

    Predominately poorer, with shitty housing (see Foxy's comments on this).

    Same reason that Hispanic and Black areas are doing worst in the US.
  • isamisam Posts: 33,119

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.



  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 14,675
    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Twitter seems to be full of Muslims angry at the government shutting down those areas @Malmesbury lists, when Eid is round the corner

    Twitter is not Britain. Though maybe it is who you are following?
    No one I’m following, I’m just reading the trending tweets
    The final word on Twitter -

    I just don't see the benefit to politicians in writing tweets, even if they benefit from being on twitter to follow people, and a lot of downsides as so many chances to make yourself look stupid.

    It's the same reason I strictly limit my post numbers.
    To 55,000?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 28,710

    @Philip_Thompson for your information, whilst Ashley may have not imposed ridiculous debts on the club, although we do have some debt to him, the real crime is negligent mismanagement.

    When Ashley took over, Spurs and Newcastle had similar commercial revenue, and were both on the same level, and we were one of the richest clubs in Europe. In that time, our commercial revenue has plunged to one of the lowest in the league.

    Likewise, he’s had 13 years worth of prime, free sponsorship, primarily in the premier league. How much is that worth in missed revenue? We receive no income from the club shop or advertisement in the stadium. It goes directly to Sports Direct.

    By the way @dixiedean the Freeman of Newcastle upon Tyne own the land St James Park sits on (not the council), but the club does own the stadium itself.

    Indeed, but it could have been worse. Yes you could have been Spurs, but you could have also been Leeds.

    As for sponsorship, that's the thing I never understood fully. Sponsorship is generally to win customers over. To transfer allegiance from the club to the product you're trying to sell. I used to drink Carlsberg during the football. But Newcastle fans hate Ashley, they despise him. I don't know a single Newcastle fan with a good word to say about him. I'd have thought Newcastle fans would be less likely to shop at Sports Direct because of him, not more likely to do so.
    Telly time
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 55,331

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Twitter seems to be full of Muslims angry at the government shutting down those areas @Malmesbury lists, when Eid is round the corner

    Twitter is not Britain. Though maybe it is who you are following?
    No one I’m following, I’m just reading the trending tweets
    The final word on Twitter -

    I just don't see the benefit to politicians in writing tweets, even if they benefit from being on twitter to follow people, and a lot of downsides as so many chances to make yourself look stupid.

    It's the same reason I strictly limit my post numbers.
    To 55,000?
    No, 550,000, so 10% of the way there.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 1,873

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.

    Oldham appears to be already under some restriction, so may not have been added. Not sure how Asian Hyndburn and Pendle are, but otherwise a decent correlation - this is locking down quite a lot of Asian areas.

    Tameside certainly has a sizeable Asian population amongst its WWC, but not as high as Oldham, a lot of Hindus and some Muslims around Ashton-under-Lyne, and Bengalis in Hyde.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,501
    Andy_JS said:

    If Trump had said: "I'm definitely not postponing the election no matter how bad the Covid-19 situation gets", what are the chances his opponents would be describing him as irresponsible? The London mayoral election and local elections this year were postponed for the same reason.

    Trump is happy to have schools back so if it’s safe enough for that why isn’t it safe enough for an election ! Do you think he’d be wanting to delay if he was leading in the polls ? And if he just said delay because it isn’t safe that would be different , his accusations of voter fraud are trying to delegitimize an election and could lead to violence and disorder.
  • BournvilleBournville Posts: 34
    Pro_Rata said:

    The hysterical reaction to the Government reintroducing very limited guidance for a very small area of the country to try and reduce the R rate is exactly why the Government didn't try to immediately introduce very severe guidance for the entire country to reduce the R rate back in March.

    Immediate sweeping responses might work in countries with a functioning media operating in good faith; sadly, we don't have that.

    They did it by tweet at 10 at night for 12.

    They have an actual government page for local.lockdowns ffs. It has no guidance to accompany this whatsoever.

    They met earlier today - the least they could have done is written it up properly. They have an entire civil service if they deign to use it.

    Genuine confusion about whether pubs and restaurants were included, or even if gardens are, as Burnham understood.

    The government messed this up big style, they have no concept of good administration, so don't dare sugar coat it, it's an omnishambles.
    They did it presumably when advised, immediately, to try and stop predominantly Muslim communities from experiencing a surge in coronavirus cases and deaths, instead of when was convenient for the front page of the Times. This is my entire point - that we've managed to fuck up our media/political system to the point where a rapid response, which in any other country would be seen as a good thing, is immediately demonised by the media as "not enough" or "too soon" or "this is racist".
  • isamisam Posts: 33,119
    edited July 30
    Pro_Rata said:

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.

    Oldham appears to be already under some restriction, so may not have been added. Not sure how Asian Hyndburn and Pendle are, but otherwise a decent correlation - this is locking down quite a lot of Asian areas.

    Tameside certainly has a sizeable Asian population amongst its WWC, but not as high as Oldham, a lot of Hindus and some Muslims around Ashton-under-Lyne, and Bengalis in Hyde.
    11% and 14% a decade ago

    (Hyndburn and Pendle)
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 8,300
    @Bournville (are you from Birmingham by any chance?) do you think this new “press secretary” the government is hiring will help or hinder the situation?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 5,202

    MaxPB said:

    Mike Pompeo seems to have invented a war in Germany in the 1980s:

    “This is personal for me. I fought on the border of East Germany when I was a young soldier I was stationed there.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2020/jul/30/us-coronavirus-mike-pompeo-senate-donald-trump-john-lewis-joe-biden-live-updates

    Who did he fight?!
    Where was @Dura_Ace at the time?
    When Pompeo was a watcher on the wall in Germany I was a mere fledgling trying not turn a stall into a spin in a Tucano over the heaths of North Yorkshire so it wasn't me!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 14,675
    It's a dead cat - it's always worked for Trump up to now. And it's quite impressive that he's still more or less in contention. But the strategy of making it all about him has a fatal flaw - over 50% actively dislike him. He needs to get votes from people who don't like him but think the Democrats will ruin the economy. Or something else other than pressing the "look at me" button.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,902
    edited July 30
    Apart from gyms, it really is hard to see these as lockdowns. People can fraternise in pubs, celebrate Eid in restaurants, and go on holiday. They are banned from visiting neighbours, but that is the most easily evaded and hardest to enforce, by the very nature of privacy.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    Andy_JS said:

    If Trump had said: "I'm definitely not postponing the election no matter how bad the Covid-19 situation gets", what are the chances his opponents would be describing him as irresponsible? The London mayoral election and local elections this year were postponed for the same reason.

    Is THAT what hordes of Republican electeds & etc. are saying today on every available social media platform?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 7,372

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.

    Wigan is overwhelmingly white.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 5,764
    To reduce the discussion to facts

    Cases scaled to 100k population -

    image
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,902

    It's a dead cat - it's always worked for Trump up to now. And it's quite impressive that he's still more or less in contention. But the strategy of making it all about him has a fatal flaw - over 50% actively dislike him. He needs to get votes from people who don't like him but think the Democrats will ruin the economy. Or something else other than pressing the "look at me" button.

    I think Trump is campaigning against a disintegrating America, with a crashed economy, against rioters etc. Not easy when all of these are happening on his watch.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 7,372
    edited July 30

    @Philip_Thompson for your information, whilst Ashley may have not imposed ridiculous debts on the club, although we do have some debt to him, the real crime is negligent mismanagement.

    When Ashley took over, Spurs and Newcastle had similar commercial revenue, and were both on the same level, and we were one of the richest clubs in Europe. In that time, our commercial revenue has plunged to one of the lowest in the league.

    Likewise, he’s had 13 years worth of prime, free sponsorship, primarily in the premier league. How much is that worth in missed revenue? We receive no income from the club shop or advertisement in the stadium. It goes directly to Sports Direct.

    By the way @dixiedean the Freeman of Newcastle upon Tyne own the land St James Park sits on (not the council), but the club does own the stadium itself.

    Fair enough. Pwned. However, I was trying to back you up. So cut me a bit, thanks.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 5,764
    Cases - absolute numbers -

    image
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 6,454
    edited July 30
    More new cases than the UK today include the following:

    Japan, France, Israel, Spain, Russia, Mexico, Argentina, South Africa, India.
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 55,331

    To reduce the discussion to facts

    How very dare you!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,085
    isam said:

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.



    You do realise that list is also the list of some of the most densely populated poorer towns and cities in England? Just Liverpool and London seem to be missing, they were hit harder earlier in the crisis.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 6,454

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Twitter seems to be full of Muslims angry at the government shutting down those areas @Malmesbury lists, when Eid is round the corner

    Twitter is not Britain. Though maybe it is who you are following?
    No one I’m following, I’m just reading the trending tweets
    The final word on Twitter -

    It's difficult to imagine most of the great statesmen and women from the past retaining their dignity on Twitter had it been available.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 465

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:



    IshmaelZ said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    My Man Evan McMullin (probably my best value loser after my Stein vote percentage bet) nails it in one

    Yes, lots of Nazis in WW1...
    There 30, 000+ in the cemetery. Less than 100 are WW1 casualties.
    That's OK then. Let's all laugh at 29,900 dead Germans.

    You do realise that not everybody in the Wehrmacht was a Nazi? And that many if not most of them were conscripts and therefore by any reasonable definition, victims of Nazism?
    The Wehrmacht were not innocents in WW2. Particularly on the Eastern Front they were involved in atrocities and war crimes, though that does not mean every single soldier was. Nor does it mean that every soldier was a card-carrying Nazi. But I thought that every soldier had to swear a personal oath of loyalty to Hitler, no?
    I'm guessing it was that or an injection of lead into the back of the head.

    Nobody is mourning Nazis, but remembering the war dead and saying we want to avoid the horrors of war going forwards . . . how has that become a political issue?
    No, there is no record of the Wehrmacht executing soldiers who refused to kill prisoners or civilians:

    https://www.deseret.com/1995/3/9/19163367/holocaust-those-who-defied-orders-to-kill-jews-did-not-die-researcher-says-at-byu
    How is that relevant to why they are in the cemetery?

    I thought it was a cemetery for dead soldiers killed by the war, not a cemetery dedicated to only those who killed prisoners or civilians?
    Because the Wehrmacht was intimately involved in those atrocities.

    My brother married a German woman who had two uncles die on the Eastern front, but as my father pointed out (out of earshot!) they shouldn't have been there in the first place. I agree.
    Of course they shouldn't have been, but dead is dead and we should respect the dead and remember the horrors of war.

    This quote seems rather apt from when Reagan visited a cemetery with Kohl (from Wiki).

    Reagan was criticized for this statement by opponents of the visit. Equating Nazi soldiers with Holocaust victims, responded Rabbi Alexander M. Schindler, president of the Union of American Hebrew Congregations, was "a callous offense for the Jewish people." Some critics claimed that Communications Director Pat Buchanan wrote the statement, which he denied in 1999.[3] Kohl confirmed an earlier press comment that in the last days of the war he was able to avoid service in the SS because he was only 15, "but they hanged a boy from a tree who was perhaps only two years older with a sign saying 'traitor' because he had tried to run away rather than serve."

    Kohl made a call to the White House days before Reagan's visit to make sure the President was not wavering in the face of criticism, not to mention pressure from wife, Nancy. The Chancellor's aide, Horst Teltschik later said: "Once we knew about the SS dead at Bitburg – knowing that these SS people were seventeen to eighteen years of age, and knowing that some Germans were forced to become members of the SS, having no alternative – the question was, Should this be a reason to cancel?" Reagan aide Robert McFarlane later said: "Once Reagan learned that Kohl would really be badly damaged by a withdrawal, he said 'We can't do that; I owe him.'" Prior to sending Deaver back to West Germany for the third time, just two days before the scheduled visit, Reagan told his deputy chief of staff: "I know you and Nancy don't want me to go through with this, but I don't want you to change anything when you get over there, because history will prove I'm right. If we can't reconcile after forty years, we are never going to be able to do it."


    That was 35 years ago he said that! If we can't reconcile after seventy five years, when are we ever going to be able to do it?

    Its been seventy five years since the war ended. Can we still not let the dead rest in peace yet? Mourning the dead and saying we want to avoid war is not suggesting the atrocities of the Nazis or WWII were OK. Lets leave the past in the past now, WWII is over.
    In Belfast there is First World War Memorial which also commemorates the the Imperial German Army.

    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/unique-memorial-unveiled-in-woodvale-park-in-tribute-to-world-war-one-soldiers-30673208.html
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 186
    Foxy said:

    Apart from gyms, it really is hard to see these as lockdowns. People can fraternise in pubs, celebrate Eid in restaurants, and go on holiday. They are banned from visiting neighbours, but that is the most easily evaded and hardest to enforce, by the very nature of privacy.

    Putting the word out there will surely dissuade some though, which will have a desired effect. The government knew social distancing was impossible to enforce but assumed a compliance rate high enough for it to work.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 1,873
    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.

    Oldham appears to be already under some restriction, so may not have been added. Not sure how Asian Hyndburn and Pendle are, but otherwise a decent correlation - this is locking down quite a lot of Asian areas.

    Tameside certainly has a sizeable Asian population amongst its WWC, but not as high as Oldham, a lot of Hindus and some Muslims around Ashton-under-Lyne, and Bengalis in Hyde.
    11% and 14% a decade ago

    (Hyndburn and Pendle)
    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.

    Oldham appears to be already under some restriction, so may not have been added. Not sure how Asian Hyndburn and Pendle are, but otherwise a decent correlation - this is locking down quite a lot of Asian areas.

    Tameside certainly has a sizeable Asian population amongst its WWC, but not as high as Oldham, a lot of Hindus and some Muslims around Ashton-under-Lyne, and Bengalis in Hyde.
    11% and 14% a decade ago

    (Hyndburn and Pendle)
    Rossendale, in the middle, is 5% Asian.

    I think it is a little one eyed of you to obsess quite so much, truth is that a lot of these areas are away from the main through routes, and actually mostly had rather low levels of COVID through March-May despite the Asians. Geography played a role, the same soft water that attracted wool.and cotton spinning, the types of locations sitting slightly more isolated towards the heads of soft water valleys, the immigration of Asians to the mills, the very high numbers from the expansion of testing, all coincide. All contribute to the overall picture.

    Perhaps Asians have unlocked down a bit more than others in their communities, but I didn't detect a general air of Muslim disobedience during the main lockdown tbh. It is important to note that these locations are not the top places in terms of aggregate COVID deaths - Kirklees, Calderdale and NELincs had the lowest case rates in the North coming into June, despite the Asian populations of the first two.

    As such, why here might be the wrong question, why now might be more salient.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 7,372

    Did you put Eid in as a keyword?

    Again Twitter is not Britain. People say loads of things on Twitter.

    Amen to that. I have said precisely nowt on Twitter.
    It is neither representative nor compulsory.
    Like choosing or not to listen to the Pub bore.
    Step away.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    Interesting story I heard today, about group of Seattle business guys who are planning to purchase or rent some property up in British Columbia for their business (what that is don't know). They had letter from their BC contact, and proof they'd tested negative for Covid (twice) in past few days.

    Drove up to the border, first thing they noticed was, there was no line - very unusual. They were questioned in their car, then asked to park and be interviewed. Letter & documents were examined, and they were asked a lot of questions about the purpose & necessity of their trip. "Can't you do it via Zoom?" (They needed to be in person to scope out the site before making major business decision.)

    After half hour or so, border guards told them they would NOT be allowed into Canada at this time. Weren't told why they didn't make the cut, but clear that official opinion was their trip was NOT necessary enough.

    From what I understand, this is consistent with the strict control Canada is imposing at the US border. And haven't heard of any Americans - sensible ones anyway - that has a problem with that approach, when we clearly are doing way too little, way to late, to get our own pesthouse in order.
  • BournvilleBournville Posts: 34

    @Bournville (are you from Birmingham by any chance?) do you think this new “press secretary” the government is hiring will help or hinder the situation?

    I honestly can't see how things can get any worse from a media/political perspective, so having a press secretary can't hinder too much.

    The ideal approach would be wholesale media reform; journalists are as important to the maintenance of political health as doctors as to the maintenance of physical health, so just as we introduced proper qualifications for doctors and legislation to hold them accountable for malpractice, we should introduce proper qualifications for journalists and legislation to hold them to account for malpractice. I have a deep admiration for journalists and the vital work they do, which is why I'm so depressed to see the profession so badly reduced in this country.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 33,319

    And haven't heard of any Americans - sensible ones anyway - that has a problem with that approach, when we clearly are doing way too little, way to late, to get our own pesthouse in order.

    May I ask if you're a natural born citizen or did you emigrate from Ireland?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,085
    Pro_Rata said:

    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.

    Oldham appears to be already under some restriction, so may not have been added. Not sure how Asian Hyndburn and Pendle are, but otherwise a decent correlation - this is locking down quite a lot of Asian areas.

    Tameside certainly has a sizeable Asian population amongst its WWC, but not as high as Oldham, a lot of Hindus and some Muslims around Ashton-under-Lyne, and Bengalis in Hyde.
    11% and 14% a decade ago

    (Hyndburn and Pendle)
    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.

    Oldham appears to be already under some restriction, so may not have been added. Not sure how Asian Hyndburn and Pendle are, but otherwise a decent correlation - this is locking down quite a lot of Asian areas.

    Tameside certainly has a sizeable Asian population amongst its WWC, but not as high as Oldham, a lot of Hindus and some Muslims around Ashton-under-Lyne, and Bengalis in Hyde.
    11% and 14% a decade ago

    (Hyndburn and Pendle)
    Rossendale, in the middle, is 5% Asian.

    I think it is a little one eyed of you to obsess quite so much, truth is that a lot of these areas are away from the main through routes, and actually mostly had rather low levels of COVID through March-May despite the Asians. Geography played a role, the same soft water that attracted wool.and cotton spinning, the types of locations sitting slightly more isolated towards the heads of soft water valleys, the immigration of Asians to the mills, the very high numbers from the expansion of testing, all coincide. All contribute to the overall picture.

    Perhaps Asians have unlocked down a bit more than others in their communities, but I didn't detect a general air of Muslim disobedience during the main lockdown tbh. It is important to note that these locations are not the top places in terms of aggregate COVID deaths - Kirklees, Calderdale and NELincs had the lowest case rates in the North coming into June, despite the Asian populations of the first two.

    As such, why here might be the wrong question, why now might be more salient.
    Well said.

    The fact that some of these places had the lowest rates earlier could explain why they're higher now, they're "behind the curve". Explains why the most Muslim city of all by far - London - is not on the list of infections now too, it was ahead of the curve.

    I am no fan of religion and am happy to criticise it but it doesn't seem relevant here. isam is hearing horse hooves and thinking zebras.
  • BournvilleBournville Posts: 34
    RH1992 said:

    Foxy said:

    Apart from gyms, it really is hard to see these as lockdowns. People can fraternise in pubs, celebrate Eid in restaurants, and go on holiday. They are banned from visiting neighbours, but that is the most easily evaded and hardest to enforce, by the very nature of privacy.

    Putting the word out there will surely dissuade some though, which will have a desired effect. The government knew social distancing was impossible to enforce but assumed a compliance rate high enough for it to work.
    Absolutely right. The Government's aim clearly isn't total lockdown, but rather trying to encourage people to reduce the R rate so harsher lockdowns aren't required later on.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,085

    RH1992 said:

    Foxy said:

    Apart from gyms, it really is hard to see these as lockdowns. People can fraternise in pubs, celebrate Eid in restaurants, and go on holiday. They are banned from visiting neighbours, but that is the most easily evaded and hardest to enforce, by the very nature of privacy.

    Putting the word out there will surely dissuade some though, which will have a desired effect. The government knew social distancing was impossible to enforce but assumed a compliance rate high enough for it to work.
    Absolutely right. The Government's aim clearly isn't total lockdown, but rather trying to encourage people to reduce the R rate so harsher lockdowns aren't required later on.
    Indeed. Whackamole. :smile:
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 7,372

    Interesting story I heard today, about group of Seattle business guys who are planning to purchase or rent some property up in British Columbia for their business (what that is don't know). They had letter from their BC contact, and proof they'd tested negative for Covid (twice) in past few days.

    Drove up to the border, first thing they noticed was, there was no line - very unusual. They were questioned in their car, then asked to park and be interviewed. Letter & documents were examined, and they were asked a lot of questions about the purpose & necessity of their trip. "Can't you do it via Zoom?" (They needed to be in person to scope out the site before making major business decision.)

    After half hour or so, border guards told them they would NOT be allowed into Canada at this time. Weren't told why they didn't make the cut, but clear that official opinion was their trip was NOT necessary enough.

    From what I understand, this is consistent with the strict control Canada is imposing at the US border. And haven't heard of any Americans - sensible ones anyway - that has a problem with that approach, when we clearly are doing way too little, way to late, to get our own pesthouse in order.

    BC is seriously pissed from what I hear
    The number of Americans claiming to be "driving to Alaska" has skyrocketed.
    Trump may yet get his border wall.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114

    And haven't heard of any Americans - sensible ones anyway - that has a problem with that approach, when we clearly are doing way too little, way to late, to get our own pesthouse in order.

    May I ask if you're a natural born citizen or did you emigrate from Ireland?
    Not an immigrant, 5th generation born on American soil - in my case, there was at least one layer of concrete, etc. between me & said earth.
  • isamisam Posts: 33,119

    Pro_Rata said:

    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.

    Oldham appears to be already under some restriction, so may not have been added. Not sure how Asian Hyndburn and Pendle are, but otherwise a decent correlation - this is locking down quite a lot of Asian areas.

    Tameside certainly has a sizeable Asian population amongst its WWC, but not as high as Oldham, a lot of Hindus and some Muslims around Ashton-under-Lyne, and Bengalis in Hyde.
    11% and 14% a decade ago

    (Hyndburn and Pendle)
    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.

    Oldham appears to be already under some restriction, so may not have been added. Not sure how Asian Hyndburn and Pendle are, but otherwise a decent correlation - this is locking down quite a lot of Asian areas.

    Tameside certainly has a sizeable Asian population amongst its WWC, but not as high as Oldham, a lot of Hindus and some Muslims around Ashton-under-Lyne, and Bengalis in Hyde.
    11% and 14% a decade ago

    (Hyndburn and Pendle)
    Rossendale, in the middle, is 5% Asian.

    I think it is a little one eyed of you to obsess quite so much, truth is that a lot of these areas are away from the main through routes, and actually mostly had rather low levels of COVID through March-May despite the Asians. Geography played a role, the same soft water that attracted wool.and cotton spinning, the types of locations sitting slightly more isolated towards the heads of soft water valleys, the immigration of Asians to the mills, the very high numbers from the expansion of testing, all coincide. All contribute to the overall picture.

    Perhaps Asians have unlocked down a bit more than others in their communities, but I didn't detect a general air of Muslim disobedience during the main lockdown tbh. It is important to note that these locations are not the top places in terms of aggregate COVID deaths - Kirklees, Calderdale and NELincs had the lowest case rates in the North coming into June, despite the Asian populations of the first two.

    As such, why here might be the wrong question, why now might be more salient.
    Well said.

    The fact that some of these places had the lowest rates earlier could explain why they're higher now, they're "behind the curve". Explains why the most Muslim city of all by far - London - is not on the list of infections now too, it was ahead of the curve.

    I am no fan of religion and am happy to criticise it but it doesn't seem relevant here. isam is hearing horse hooves and thinking zebras.
    All I said was that the places at the top of the new infections list were places with high Muslim populations - which they are. You are arguing that they aren’t, it’s a fact they are.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,085
    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.

    Oldham appears to be already under some restriction, so may not have been added. Not sure how Asian Hyndburn and Pendle are, but otherwise a decent correlation - this is locking down quite a lot of Asian areas.

    Tameside certainly has a sizeable Asian population amongst its WWC, but not as high as Oldham, a lot of Hindus and some Muslims around Ashton-under-Lyne, and Bengalis in Hyde.
    11% and 14% a decade ago

    (Hyndburn and Pendle)
    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.

    Oldham appears to be already under some restriction, so may not have been added. Not sure how Asian Hyndburn and Pendle are, but otherwise a decent correlation - this is locking down quite a lot of Asian areas.

    Tameside certainly has a sizeable Asian population amongst its WWC, but not as high as Oldham, a lot of Hindus and some Muslims around Ashton-under-Lyne, and Bengalis in Hyde.
    11% and 14% a decade ago

    (Hyndburn and Pendle)
    Rossendale, in the middle, is 5% Asian.

    I think it is a little one eyed of you to obsess quite so much, truth is that a lot of these areas are away from the main through routes, and actually mostly had rather low levels of COVID through March-May despite the Asians. Geography played a role, the same soft water that attracted wool.and cotton spinning, the types of locations sitting slightly more isolated towards the heads of soft water valleys, the immigration of Asians to the mills, the very high numbers from the expansion of testing, all coincide. All contribute to the overall picture.

    Perhaps Asians have unlocked down a bit more than others in their communities, but I didn't detect a general air of Muslim disobedience during the main lockdown tbh. It is important to note that these locations are not the top places in terms of aggregate COVID deaths - Kirklees, Calderdale and NELincs had the lowest case rates in the North coming into June, despite the Asian populations of the first two.

    As such, why here might be the wrong question, why now might be more salient.
    Well said.

    The fact that some of these places had the lowest rates earlier could explain why they're higher now, they're "behind the curve". Explains why the most Muslim city of all by far - London - is not on the list of infections now too, it was ahead of the curve.

    I am no fan of religion and am happy to criticise it but it doesn't seem relevant here. isam is hearing horse hooves and thinking zebras.
    All I said was that the places at the top of the new infections list were places with high Muslim populations - which they are. You are arguing that they aren’t, it’s a fact they are.
    More than one thing can be true at the same time.

    Infections are higher in poorer densely populated towns and cities.
    Muslims disproportionately live in poorer densely populated towns and cities.
    Ergo Muslims disproportionately live in infected towns and cities.

    Infections aren't going to be highest in small villages and small villages aren't going to be where more Muslims live. But correlation is not causation.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    dixiedean said:

    Interesting story I heard today, about group of Seattle business guys who are planning to purchase or rent some property up in British Columbia for their business (what that is don't know). They had letter from their BC contact, and proof they'd tested negative for Covid (twice) in past few days.

    Drove up to the border, first thing they noticed was, there was no line - very unusual. They were questioned in their car, then asked to park and be interviewed. Letter & documents were examined, and they were asked a lot of questions about the purpose & necessity of their trip. "Can't you do it via Zoom?" (They needed to be in person to scope out the site before making major business decision.)

    After half hour or so, border guards told them they would NOT be allowed into Canada at this time. Weren't told why they didn't make the cut, but clear that official opinion was their trip was NOT necessary enough.

    From what I understand, this is consistent with the strict control Canada is imposing at the US border. And haven't heard of any Americans - sensible ones anyway - that has a problem with that approach, when we clearly are doing way too little, way to late, to get our own pesthouse in order.

    BC is seriously pissed from what I hear
    The number of Americans claiming to be "driving to Alaska" has skyrocketed.
    Trump may yet get his border wall.
    In BC, premier told people with non-BC plates to either stay at home or take mass transit. Which in part explains the severity of current crackdown.

    Makes me wonder how Vancouverites who maintain US post boxes in Point Roberts, WA are making out. As well as US residents of Point Roberts, who cannot drive to rest of US without going through BC and crossing border twice.

    Saw a story about Yukon planning to get some kind of sign for local residents with cars licensed in more southerly climes (US or Canadian) not sure why they don't have local plates.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,085
    edited July 30

    Interesting story I heard today, about group of Seattle business guys who are planning to purchase or rent some property up in British Columbia for their business (what that is don't know). They had letter from their BC contact, and proof they'd tested negative for Covid (twice) in past few days.

    Drove up to the border, first thing they noticed was, there was no line - very unusual. They were questioned in their car, then asked to park and be interviewed. Letter & documents were examined, and they were asked a lot of questions about the purpose & necessity of their trip. "Can't you do it via Zoom?" (They needed to be in person to scope out the site before making major business decision.)

    After half hour or so, border guards told them they would NOT be allowed into Canada at this time. Weren't told why they didn't make the cut, but clear that official opinion was their trip was NOT necessary enough.

    From what I understand, this is consistent with the strict control Canada is imposing at the US border. And haven't heard of any Americans - sensible ones anyway - that has a problem with that approach, when we clearly are doing way too little, way to late, to get our own pesthouse in order.

    It makes sense. My in-laws live in Alberta* and they're not really that affected by the virus as it stands, but they don't want to get the plague from their southern neighbours.

    * You can't get more socially distanced than Alberta. When we visit my in-laws and they pick us up from the airport, after leaving the city the Sat Nav says "drive 400 kilometres then turn right".
  • isamisam Posts: 33,119

    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.

    Oldham appears to be already under some restriction, so may not have been added. Not sure how Asian Hyndburn and Pendle are, but otherwise a decent correlation - this is locking down quite a lot of Asian areas.

    Tameside certainly has a sizeable Asian population amongst its WWC, but not as high as Oldham, a lot of Hindus and some Muslims around Ashton-under-Lyne, and Bengalis in Hyde.
    11% and 14% a decade ago

    (Hyndburn and Pendle)
    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.

    Oldham appears to be already under some restriction, so may not have been added. Not sure how Asian Hyndburn and Pendle are, but otherwise a decent correlation - this is locking down quite a lot of Asian areas.

    Tameside certainly has a sizeable Asian population amongst its WWC, but not as high as Oldham, a lot of Hindus and some Muslims around Ashton-under-Lyne, and Bengalis in Hyde.
    11% and 14% a decade ago

    (Hyndburn and Pendle)
    Rossendale, in the middle, is 5% Asian.

    I think it is a little one eyed of you to obsess quite so much, truth is that a lot of these areas are away from the main through routes, and actually mostly had rather low levels of COVID through March-May despite the Asians. Geography played a role, the same soft water that attracted wool.and cotton spinning, the types of locations sitting slightly more isolated towards the heads of soft water valleys, the immigration of Asians to the mills, the very high numbers from the expansion of testing, all coincide. All contribute to the overall picture.

    Perhaps Asians have unlocked down a bit more than others in their communities, but I didn't detect a general air of Muslim disobedience during the main lockdown tbh. It is important to note that these locations are not the top places in terms of aggregate COVID deaths - Kirklees, Calderdale and NELincs had the lowest case rates in the North coming into June, despite the Asian populations of the first two.

    As such, why here might be the wrong question, why now might be more salient.
    Well said.

    The fact that some of these places had the lowest rates earlier could explain why they're higher now, they're "behind the curve". Explains why the most Muslim city of all by far - London - is not on the list of infections now too, it was ahead of the curve.

    I am no fan of religion and am happy to criticise it but it doesn't seem relevant here. isam is hearing horse hooves and thinking zebras.
    All I said was that the places at the top of the new infections list were places with high Muslim populations - which they are. You are arguing that they aren’t, it’s a fact they are.
    More than one thing can be true at the same time.

    Infections are higher in poorer densely populated towns and cities.
    Muslims disproportionately live in poorer densely populated towns and cities.
    Ergo Muslims disproportionately live in infected towns and cities.

    Infections aren't going to be highest in small villages and small villages aren't going to be where more Muslims live. But correlation is not causation.
    Don’t know what you’re so hung up about to be honest. I stated a fact and didn’t offer any opinion. But they’re locked down now, and people are accusing the govt of Islamophobia. Let’s see how it plays out.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,085
    edited July 30
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.

    Oldham appears to be already under some restriction, so may not have been added. Not sure how Asian Hyndburn and Pendle are, but otherwise a decent correlation - this is locking down quite a lot of Asian areas.

    Tameside certainly has a sizeable Asian population amongst its WWC, but not as high as Oldham, a lot of Hindus and some Muslims around Ashton-under-Lyne, and Bengalis in Hyde.
    11% and 14% a decade ago

    (Hyndburn and Pendle)
    isam said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Are the parts of Northern England under going lockdown predominately muslim? Just wondering given the Twitter comments posted here.

    South Stockport was largely white when I lived there and Tameside was mostly WWC. Oldham (just north of Tameside) was very Asian but I did not see Oldham on the list.

    Oldham appears to be already under some restriction, so may not have been added. Not sure how Asian Hyndburn and Pendle are, but otherwise a decent correlation - this is locking down quite a lot of Asian areas.

    Tameside certainly has a sizeable Asian population amongst its WWC, but not as high as Oldham, a lot of Hindus and some Muslims around Ashton-under-Lyne, and Bengalis in Hyde.
    11% and 14% a decade ago

    (Hyndburn and Pendle)
    Rossendale, in the middle, is 5% Asian.

    I think it is a little one eyed of you to obsess quite so much, truth is that a lot of these areas are away from the main through routes, and actually mostly had rather low levels of COVID through March-May despite the Asians. Geography played a role, the same soft water that attracted wool.and cotton spinning, the types of locations sitting slightly more isolated towards the heads of soft water valleys, the immigration of Asians to the mills, the very high numbers from the expansion of testing, all coincide. All contribute to the overall picture.

    Perhaps Asians have unlocked down a bit more than others in their communities, but I didn't detect a general air of Muslim disobedience during the main lockdown tbh. It is important to note that these locations are not the top places in terms of aggregate COVID deaths - Kirklees, Calderdale and NELincs had the lowest case rates in the North coming into June, despite the Asian populations of the first two.

    As such, why here might be the wrong question, why now might be more salient.
    Well said.

    The fact that some of these places had the lowest rates earlier could explain why they're higher now, they're "behind the curve". Explains why the most Muslim city of all by far - London - is not on the list of infections now too, it was ahead of the curve.

    I am no fan of religion and am happy to criticise it but it doesn't seem relevant here. isam is hearing horse hooves and thinking zebras.
    All I said was that the places at the top of the new infections list were places with high Muslim populations - which they are. You are arguing that they aren’t, it’s a fact they are.
    More than one thing can be true at the same time.

    Infections are higher in poorer densely populated towns and cities.
    Muslims disproportionately live in poorer densely populated towns and cities.
    Ergo Muslims disproportionately live in infected towns and cities.

    Infections aren't going to be highest in small villages and small villages aren't going to be where more Muslims live. But correlation is not causation.
    Don’t know what you’re so hung up about to be honest. I stated a fact and didn’t offer any opinion. But they’re locked down now, and people are accusing the govt of Islamophobia. Let’s see how it plays out.
    I'm hung up about it? I couldn't care less.

    I don't see anyone at all bringing Islam into the equation other than you to be honest.

    If you don't think Islam is that relevant why are you constantly bringing it up here?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,085
    dixiedean said:

    Interesting story I heard today, about group of Seattle business guys who are planning to purchase or rent some property up in British Columbia for their business (what that is don't know). They had letter from their BC contact, and proof they'd tested negative for Covid (twice) in past few days.

    Drove up to the border, first thing they noticed was, there was no line - very unusual. They were questioned in their car, then asked to park and be interviewed. Letter & documents were examined, and they were asked a lot of questions about the purpose & necessity of their trip. "Can't you do it via Zoom?" (They needed to be in person to scope out the site before making major business decision.)

    After half hour or so, border guards told them they would NOT be allowed into Canada at this time. Weren't told why they didn't make the cut, but clear that official opinion was their trip was NOT necessary enough.

    From what I understand, this is consistent with the strict control Canada is imposing at the US border. And haven't heard of any Americans - sensible ones anyway - that has a problem with that approach, when we clearly are doing way too little, way to late, to get our own pesthouse in order.

    BC is seriously pissed from what I hear
    The number of Americans claiming to be "driving to Alaska" has skyrocketed.
    Trump may yet get his border wall.
    Canadians seem to have been joking about building a wall of their own for the last four years. Now its happening!
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 230
    edited July 30
    Foxy said:

    Apart from gyms, it really is hard to see these as lockdowns. People can fraternise in pubs, celebrate Eid in restaurants, and go on holiday. They are banned from visiting neighbours, but that is the most easily evaded and hardest to enforce, by the very nature of privacy.

    It is obviously aimed at Eid meetings in people's houses. These aren't very likely to move to the pub and they presumably will be a bit more controlled in a restaurant.

    The list of hotspots in the North is a basically a list of Muslim areas. I'm not sure why this is - extended families, youth ignoring lockdowns, dense housing, poor working conditions or something else. But it is hard to get past this reality.

    The odd thing is that they weren't badly affected earlier. Perhaps they weren't seeded by skiing holidays or trips to the Spanish sun.



  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 7,372

    dixiedean said:

    Interesting story I heard today, about group of Seattle business guys who are planning to purchase or rent some property up in British Columbia for their business (what that is don't know). They had letter from their BC contact, and proof they'd tested negative for Covid (twice) in past few days.

    Drove up to the border, first thing they noticed was, there was no line - very unusual. They were questioned in their car, then asked to park and be interviewed. Letter & documents were examined, and they were asked a lot of questions about the purpose & necessity of their trip. "Can't you do it via Zoom?" (They needed to be in person to scope out the site before making major business decision.)

    After half hour or so, border guards told them they would NOT be allowed into Canada at this time. Weren't told why they didn't make the cut, but clear that official opinion was their trip was NOT necessary enough.

    From what I understand, this is consistent with the strict control Canada is imposing at the US border. And haven't heard of any Americans - sensible ones anyway - that has a problem with that approach, when we clearly are doing way too little, way to late, to get our own pesthouse in order.

    BC is seriously pissed from what I hear
    The number of Americans claiming to be "driving to Alaska" has skyrocketed.
    Trump may yet get his border wall.
    In BC, premier told people with non-BC plates to either stay at home or take mass transit. Which in part explains the severity of current crackdown.

    Makes me wonder how Vancouverites who maintain US post boxes in Point Roberts, WA are making out. As well as US residents of Point Roberts, who cannot drive to rest of US without going through BC and crossing border twice.

    Saw a story about Yukon planning to get some kind of sign for local residents with cars licensed in more southerly climes (US or Canadian) not sure why they don't have local plates.

    Point Bob is a fascinating place in many ways.School kids were routinely driven 60 miles across two borders daily prior to this.
    Not sure about the Yukon. Probs not enough to make a difference before.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114

    dixiedean said:

    Interesting story I heard today, about group of Seattle business guys who are planning to purchase or rent some property up in British Columbia for their business (what that is don't know). They had letter from their BC contact, and proof they'd tested negative for Covid (twice) in past few days.

    Drove up to the border, first thing they noticed was, there was no line - very unusual. They were questioned in their car, then asked to park and be interviewed. Letter & documents were examined, and they were asked a lot of questions about the purpose & necessity of their trip. "Can't you do it via Zoom?" (They needed to be in person to scope out the site before making major business decision.)

    After half hour or so, border guards told them they would NOT be allowed into Canada at this time. Weren't told why they didn't make the cut, but clear that official opinion was their trip was NOT necessary enough.

    From what I understand, this is consistent with the strict control Canada is imposing at the US border. And haven't heard of any Americans - sensible ones anyway - that has a problem with that approach, when we clearly are doing way too little, way to late, to get our own pesthouse in order.

    BC is seriously pissed from what I hear
    The number of Americans claiming to be "driving to Alaska" has skyrocketed.
    Trump may yet get his border wall.
    Canadians seem to have been joking about building a wall of their own for the last four years. Now its happening!
    Some interesting stories along the loooooong Canada-US border

    > in Pacific Northwest, most border towns on either side dead as a door nail, which is NOT the usual mid-summer situation; thus communities esp. hospitality business & workers very hard hit.

    > one exception: Osoyoos, BC which is apparently thronging with tourists - not Americans, but by stir-crazy fellow Canucks from Vancouver & rest of Lower Mainland (Van burbs & exurbs). Osoyoos is smack on border in the Okanagan Valley (Okanogan south of the 49th) and is the closest thing in Canada to a mountain desert.

    > one story interviewed lady in small Montana border town who owns a gift shop, her business is down to zilch. Yet she supported Canada's decision to virtually seal the border against Americans. She though it common sense they want to keep out the Covid if they can. Not sure how she's planning to vote - but she makes me proud to be an American.

    > question I keep wondering about -actually three - is, how are they making out at on the bi-national St Regis Indian Reservation/Reserve, and at the bi-national Haskell Free Library & Opera House on the Quebec-Vermont line, and at the pool hall split by the border between La Belle Province and the State of New York?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    From official blog of Washington Secretary of State Kim Wyman, a Republican who is running for re-election this year; she's running for a third term.

    Secretary of State Kim Wyman responds to President Trump’s tweet about delaying the General Election

    July 30, 2020 · General Information

    OLYMPIA —Washington Secretary of State Kim Wyman issued the following response to a tweet by President Donald Trump this morning about delaying the 2020 General Election.

    “The 2020 General Election will take place Nov. 3 as required by law. Only an act of Congress can change that, and comments from lawmakers on both sides of the aisle have assured the American people that the election will take place as planned.

    “The President’s and Attorney General’s continued consternation with vote-by-mail is precisely why I invite them to come to Washington state to see firsthand how my office and Washington’s 39 county election officials have worked diligently to build in robust security measures so people can vote safely this fall.”
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 28,710

    Interesting story I heard today, about group of Seattle business guys who are planning to purchase or rent some property up in British Columbia for their business (what that is don't know). They had letter from their BC contact, and proof they'd tested negative for Covid (twice) in past few days.

    Drove up to the border, first thing they noticed was, there was no line - very unusual. They were questioned in their car, then asked to park and be interviewed. Letter & documents were examined, and they were asked a lot of questions about the purpose & necessity of their trip. "Can't you do it via Zoom?" (They needed to be in person to scope out the site before making major business decision.)

    After half hour or so, border guards told them they would NOT be allowed into Canada at this time. Weren't told why they didn't make the cut, but clear that official opinion was their trip was NOT necessary enough.

    From what I understand, this is consistent with the strict control Canada is imposing at the US border. And haven't heard of any Americans - sensible ones anyway - that has a problem with that approach, when we clearly are doing way too little, way to late, to get our own pesthouse in order.

    I had to show my daughter’s certificate of foreign birth and my marriage licence to be able to enter the US
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 3,198
    Andy_JS said:

    I wish I lived in Sweden.

    Prior to Brexit your wish was simple to fulfil.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    Charles said:

    Interesting story I heard today, about group of Seattle business guys who are planning to purchase or rent some property up in British Columbia for their business (what that is don't know). They had letter from their BC contact, and proof they'd tested negative for Covid (twice) in past few days.

    Drove up to the border, first thing they noticed was, there was no line - very unusual. They were questioned in their car, then asked to park and be interviewed. Letter & documents were examined, and they were asked a lot of questions about the purpose & necessity of their trip. "Can't you do it via Zoom?" (They needed to be in person to scope out the site before making major business decision.)

    After half hour or so, border guards told them they would NOT be allowed into Canada at this time. Weren't told why they didn't make the cut, but clear that official opinion was their trip was NOT necessary enough.

    From what I understand, this is consistent with the strict control Canada is imposing at the US border. And haven't heard of any Americans - sensible ones anyway - that has a problem with that approach, when we clearly are doing way too little, way to late, to get our own pesthouse in order.

    I had to show my daughter’s certificate of foreign birth and my marriage licence to be able to enter the US
    Did you have reasonable assurance before you came that they'd let you in? Have heard that some US citizens have had difficulty crossing in. And don't understand re: birth certificate?

    At least one of the Washingtonians (my friend, a Democrat) who tried to crash the Canadian border thought he was problematic, but one of the others (a firm Republican) was sure it would NOT be a problem - he was mistaken.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 28,710

    Charles said:

    Interesting story I heard today, about group of Seattle business guys who are planning to purchase or rent some property up in British Columbia for their business (what that is don't know). They had letter from their BC contact, and proof they'd tested negative for Covid (twice) in past few days.

    Drove up to the border, first thing they noticed was, there was no line - very unusual. They were questioned in their car, then asked to park and be interviewed. Letter & documents were examined, and they were asked a lot of questions about the purpose & necessity of their trip. "Can't you do it via Zoom?" (They needed to be in person to scope out the site before making major business decision.)

    After half hour or so, border guards told them they would NOT be allowed into Canada at this time. Weren't told why they didn't make the cut, but clear that official opinion was their trip was NOT necessary enough.

    From what I understand, this is consistent with the strict control Canada is imposing at the US border. And haven't heard of any Americans - sensible ones anyway - that has a problem with that approach, when we clearly are doing way too little, way to late, to get our own pesthouse in order.

    I had to show my daughter’s certificate of foreign birth and my marriage licence to be able to enter the US
    Did you have reasonable assurance before you came that they'd let you in? Have heard that some US citizens have had difficulty crossing in. And don't understand re: birth certificate?

    At least one of the Washingtonians (my friend, a Democrat) who tried to crash the Canadian border thought he was problematic, but one of the others (a firm Republican) was sure it would NOT be a problem - he was mistaken.
    The government website wasn’t categoric but I was pretty sure that I qualified under the spouse / father of dependent child exemptions. But there was no guarantee
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 1,114
    Herman Cain 1945 - 2020

    Death of Black businessman, Tea Party activist and 2012 Republican presidential candidate just announced, attributed on his website to coronavirus, which Cain may (IIHO probably) contracted at President Trump's June rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Sign In or Register to comment.