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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New YouGov polling on what would happen if there was no UKIP

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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    I've just seen that the Canadians have walked out of the free trade negotiations in disgust. Anyone heard any more?
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,850

    ***** Betting Post *****

    There's quite a gulf between the two major spreadbetting firms as regards the ECV votes forecast to be won by the two major protagonists in the forthcoming POTUS election, so much so that there's currently an unusual teeny weeny arb opportunity in the case of Clinton, despite the firms' 10/12 point spreads.

    Sporting Index goes:

    Clinton .... 319 - 329
    Trump ...... 209 - 219

    Spreadex goes:

    Clinton .... 330 - 342
    Trump ...... 196 - 208

    Currently, Nate Silver's 538.com has Hillary winning 341 ECVs, with The Donald bringing up the rear on 196. If he's right, and it's a BIG if, then a buy of Hillary at 329 with Sporting looks like the bet .... I'm on, modestly, but DYOR .... Spreadbetting is, as they say, high risk /high reward.

    Interesting and thanks for the update.

    As I said in my previous, I can't see, on current poll numbers, HRC at under 308 and Trump at over 230.

    Then we have states like IA, OH. NC, AZ and GA plus UT I suppose. They have 72 EVs between them. IF Trump lost them all, he'd be sub 160 and the Sporting Index sell would look very interesting. I'd be surprised if he lost them all in truth but I'd also be surprised if he won them all.

    IF HRC wins NC and OH (and Trump wins UT) it would be 341-197 which is basically where Spreadex are. I think there's more possibilities in the Sporting Index price on an HRC buy.

    DYOR of course and with just over 2 weeks to go, there are a lot of states from which we've had next to no recent polling.

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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    nunu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The high level of unemployment resulting from the high minimum wage and lack of tax credits will certainly help to reduce migration. As will the rocketing crime wave, as desperate people with no welfare support and no way of earning a living are forced to steal to survive.

    No way of earning a living? The minimum wage is a real living wage and the economic boost from paying people more has always worked out with more jobs being created than being lost. You sound like the Tories and big business in 1997.
    You're not taking into account the sad truth that a significant number of people are simply not capable of performing work that any company would value at £12.50/h.
    I think everyone is capable of that, they just need the right motivation, dedication and training to achieve it. In all honesty it's not a massive jump. If you add employers NI to the current NLW that's already £8.20/h, the NLW would have to rise by 8-9% per year to meet the five year target. A lot of the additonal cost of employment can be reclaimed through higher prices and wage reductions at the top.

    Anyway, I know it's possible since even the lowest worker in Switzerland receives wages of at least 18Fr/h which is higher than £12.50 even with a more favourable exchange rate.
    I believe McDonalds in Zurich pays close to twice that.
    How much does a big Mac cost there?
    A McDonald's meal is 11-12Fr, around two thirds of one work unit for a minimum wage worker. Over here they are £4.60 which is also just under two thirds of a minimum wage work unit. If the minimum wage rose to £12.50 then I'd expect a McDonald's meal to rise to ~£8 and a Starbucks coffee to rise to around £5.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Pulpstar said:

    MTimT said:

    MrsB said:

    MrsB, probably because the votes are tight and, whilst distrusting Clinton, they're far more disturbed by the prospect of Trump winning.

    I do wonder if the third chap might win Utah.

    Not sure whether there is enough correction in the polling for shy Trumpeters
    I am not sure if there are any shy Trumpsters left. They are either very loud Trumpsters, or they have left the building ...

    As someone who is appalled by what a Clinton presidency will mean for the country, and even worse, for the balance of the Supreme Court for the next quarter century, I cannot bring myself to support Trump. My wife, who cannot stand Hillary, and whose gross income will probably be more than decimated and then taxed more under Hillary, also finds herself each time she is about to reconcile herself to voting Trump having that resolve destroyed by that day's unconscionable from his mouth.
    What are you going to do then, skip the topline and go down ballot GOP ?
    I don't have a vote. I think my wife will vote Johnson and GOP down ticket.

    But in MD, the Presidential and statewide votes are a foregone conclusion, and the House seats are so gerrymandered that only the Eastern Shore gets a GOP representative. Northern MD used to, but then they split the rural area between CD 6 and CD 8, ensuring that the Bethesda vote in CD6 and the Prince George's County in CD8 swamped the rural GOP vote in the entire north.

    To see how bad the gerrymandering of House districts is, see:

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TdWPXkg1_10/Tnev8rDLYUI/AAAAAAAAAIU/IYgXClkYtYU/s1600/md-2012-redistricting.jpg
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    My worst result is now an Electoral college sweep by Trump.

    It is baked beans for a year if that happens :o
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,850
    SeanT said:

    <
    Talking of the weak £, and anecdotally, I've noticed lots of French and Italian people wandering down Parkway, in Camden - looking in estate agents windows, quite intently.

    London is flooded with foreign tourists right now (so is Devon) because of the feeble £, but this looks specifically like property hunting.

    Hmm. I wonder if paraxodically we might see a surge in London property sales. Let's face it, if you're rich, from Asia, the USA, or the continent, and looking to invest money, one of the best investments in modern history - London property - has just, suddenly, got 20% cheaper.

    Of course if you're thinking of buying, you have to weight the possibility that the £ will fall further, or the London market will collapse post-Brexit, but against that you have to weigh the possibility that this is a fairly brief and unprecedented bargain price, for an asset that nearly always appreciates very fast, and you should seize the moment.

    We shall see.

    Add in places like York to the list of those enjoying a tourist boom.

    The London property market, like all others, works on supply and demand. All that's happening is one type of demand is perhaps being replaced by another - even the more salubrious areas like Newham are enjoying rising prices.

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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,603
    Blue_rog said:

    I've just seen that the Canadians have walked out of the free trade negotiations in disgust. Anyone heard any more?

    Are they heading for Liam Fox's office?
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Blue_rog said:

    I've just seen that the Canadians have walked out of the free trade negotiations in disgust. Anyone heard any more?

    If that is true, how long before the Canucks sign a similar deal with the UK once the shackles are off?
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''As someone who is appalled by what a Clinton presidency will mean for the country, and even worse, for the balance of the Supreme Court for the next quarter century, I cannot bring myself to support Trump. ''

    When the republicans find someone you can support you still won't win, because you will never win enough floaters to replace those Trumpers who will desert the cause.

    Hillary's tribe is rock solid, because she holds out the promise of transferring a colossal sum of wealth from you to them.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    edited October 2016
    MTimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MTimT said:

    MrsB said:

    MrsB, probably because the votes are tight and, whilst distrusting Clinton, they're far more disturbed by the prospect of Trump winning.

    I do wonder if the third chap might win Utah.

    Not sure whether there is enough correction in the polling for shy Trumpeters
    I am not sure if there are any shy Trumpsters left. They are either very loud Trumpsters, or they have left the building ...

    As someone who is appalled by what a Clinton presidency will mean for the country, and even worse, for the balance of the Supreme Court for the next quarter century, I cannot bring myself to support Trump. My wife, who cannot stand Hillary, and whose gross income will probably be more than decimated and then taxed more under Hillary, also finds herself each time she is about to reconcile herself to voting Trump having that resolve destroyed by that day's unconscionable from his mouth.
    What are you going to do then, skip the topline and go down ballot GOP ?
    I don't have a vote. I think my wife will vote Johnson and GOP down ticket.

    But in MD, the Presidential and statewide votes are a foregone conclusion, and the House seats are so gerrymandered that only the Eastern Shore gets a GOP representative. Northern MD used to, but then they split the rural area between CD 6 and CD 8, ensuring that the Bethesda vote in CD6 and the Prince George's County in CD8 swamped the rural GOP vote in the entire north.

    To see how bad the gerrymandering of House districts is, see:

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TdWPXkg1_10/Tnev8rDLYUI/AAAAAAAAAIU/IYgXClkYtYU/s1600/md-2012-redistricting.jpg
    Ah you're in MD, thought you were GA. Yep your wife's vote is worth the square root of diddly squat then :)

    A friend of mine has a postal vote, he'll be voting Clinton (By post, he lives in Manchester). Won't make any difference, he is registered in VT ;)
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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    taffys said:

    ''As someone who is appalled by what a Clinton presidency will mean for the country, and even worse, for the balance of the Supreme Court for the next quarter century, I cannot bring myself to support Trump. ''

    When the republicans find someone you can support you still won't win, because you will never win enough floaters to replace those Trumpers who will desert the cause.

    Hillary's tribe is rock solid, because she holds out the promise of transferring a colossal sum of wealth from you to them.

    We will see how many 'Trumpers' they are soon. I suspect it will be a small enough percentage that the GOP would be better getting rid of them
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Pulpstar said:

    Ah you're in MD, thought you were GA.

    Time for TimB to re-post his explanation of the huge differences between TimB and MTimT ...
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    MTimT said:

    Blue_rog said:

    I've just seen that the Canadians have walked out of the free trade negotiations in disgust. Anyone heard any more?

    If that is true, how long before the Canucks sign a similar deal with the UK once the shackles are off?
    About a week :grin:
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    stodge said:

    ***** Betting Post *****

    There's quite a gulf between the two major spreadbetting firms as regards the ECV votes forecast to be won by the two major protagonists in the forthcoming POTUS election, so much so that there's currently an unusual teeny weeny arb opportunity in the case of Clinton, despite the firms' 10/12 point spreads.

    Sporting Index goes:

    Clinton .... 319 - 329
    Trump ...... 209 - 219

    Spreadex goes:

    Clinton .... 330 - 342
    Trump ...... 196 - 208

    Currently, Nate Silver's 538.com has Hillary winning 341 ECVs, with The Donald bringing up the rear on 196. If he's right, and it's a BIG if, then a buy of Hillary at 329 with Sporting looks like the bet .... I'm on, modestly, but DYOR .... Spreadbetting is, as they say, high risk /high reward.

    Interesting and thanks for the update.

    As I said in my previous, I can't see, on current poll numbers, HRC at under 308 and Trump at over 230.

    Then we have states like IA, OH. NC, AZ and GA plus UT I suppose. They have 72 EVs between them. IF Trump lost them all, he'd be sub 160 and the Sporting Index sell would look very interesting. I'd be surprised if he lost them all in truth but I'd also be surprised if he won them all.

    IF HRC wins NC and OH (and Trump wins UT) it would be 341-197 which is basically where Spreadex are. I think there's more possibilities in the Sporting Index price on an HRC buy.

    DYOR of course and with just over 2 weeks to go, there are a lot of states from which we've had next to no recent polling.

    Here's the link to Nate's political map, showing how he arrives at his current forecast of 341 for Hillary: http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Stodge, do you mean 'less salubrious'?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917

    stodge said:

    ***** Betting Post *****

    There's quite a gulf between the two major spreadbetting firms as regards the ECV votes forecast to be won by the two major protagonists in the forthcoming POTUS election, so much so that there's currently an unusual teeny weeny arb opportunity in the case of Clinton, despite the firms' 10/12 point spreads.

    Sporting Index goes:

    Clinton .... 319 - 329
    Trump ...... 209 - 219

    Spreadex goes:

    Clinton .... 330 - 342
    Trump ...... 196 - 208

    Currently, Nate Silver's 538.com has Hillary winning 341 ECVs, with The Donald bringing up the rear on 196. If he's right, and it's a BIG if, then a buy of Hillary at 329 with Sporting looks like the bet .... I'm on, modestly, but DYOR .... Spreadbetting is, as they say, high risk /high reward.

    Interesting and thanks for the update.

    As I said in my previous, I can't see, on current poll numbers, HRC at under 308 and Trump at over 230.

    Then we have states like IA, OH. NC, AZ and GA plus UT I suppose. They have 72 EVs between them. IF Trump lost them all, he'd be sub 160 and the Sporting Index sell would look very interesting. I'd be surprised if he lost them all in truth but I'd also be surprised if he won them all.

    IF HRC wins NC and OH (and Trump wins UT) it would be 341-197 which is basically where Spreadex are. I think there's more possibilities in the Sporting Index price on an HRC buy.

    DYOR of course and with just over 2 weeks to go, there are a lot of states from which we've had next to no recent polling.

    Here's the link to Nate's political map, showing how he arrives at his current forecast of 341 for Hillary: http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/
    There's another psephologist whose forecast is at 341 for Clinton too. Although his prediction is for Trump.

    IF the polls are right it is definitely 341 HRC, 197 Trump at any rate.

    Decent sized IF judging by how people do love to trip them up, mind..
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''We will see how many 'Trumpers' they are soon. I suspect it will be a small enough percentage that the GOP would be better getting rid of them ''

    Yep it will indeed be fascinating to find out. Enough for him to smash much better backed rivals in the primaries, though, to be sure.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Blue_rog said:

    MTimT said:

    Blue_rog said:

    I've just seen that the Canadians have walked out of the free trade negotiations in disgust. Anyone heard any more?

    If that is true, how long before the Canucks sign a similar deal with the UK once the shackles are off?
    About a week :grin:
    It might take a little longer - presumably we'd 'find and replace' 'EU' with "UK" but also want to expand the services chapters.

    But not long.
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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    taffys said:

    ''We will see how many 'Trumpers' they are soon. I suspect it will be a small enough percentage that the GOP would be better getting rid of them ''

    Yep it will indeed be fascinating to find out. Enough for him to smash much better backed rivals in the primaries, though, to be sure.

    A small percentage of the overall voting public in the USA.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    taffys said:

    ''We will see how many 'Trumpers' they are soon. I suspect it will be a small enough percentage that the GOP would be better getting rid of them ''

    Yep it will indeed be fascinating to find out. Enough for him to smash much better backed rivals in the primaries, though, to be sure.

    They weren't really that shy in the primaries, he was alway ahead in the polls for those. And where he wasn't (WI for instance) Cruz won.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scottish greens don't want the British £ if Scotland goes indy.

    https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/patrick-harvie-case-currency-union-between-independent-scotland-and-ruk-even-less

    "Harvie said that a currency union between an independent Scotland inside the EU and a UK outside the EU would be even less appealing to voters now than it did in the run up the 2014 referendum."

    "..where does that leave the idea of a currency union between an independent Scotland inside the EU and a UK outside the EU? I think that is going to prove even more unconvincing than it did in 2014."
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    F1: P1 is underway (has been for half an hour). P2 kicks off at 8pm. Silly times, but better than early starts, mostly.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    HRC lead:
    last
    60-days 4.0%
    30-days 5.0%
    14-days 6.5%
    7-days 6.0%
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055
    TGOHF said:

    Scottish greens don't want the British £ if Scotland goes indy.

    https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/patrick-harvie-case-currency-union-between-independent-scotland-and-ruk-even-less

    "Harvie said that a currency union between an independent Scotland inside the EU and a UK outside the EU would be even less appealing to voters now than it did in the run up the 2014 referendum."

    "..where does that leave the idea of a currency union between an independent Scotland inside the EU and a UK outside the EU? I think that is going to prove even more unconvincing than it did in 2014."

    There'll be a celtic Eurozone stretching from Cork to Shetland.
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    Pulpstar said:

    My worst result is now an Electoral college sweep by Trump.

    It is baked beans for a year if that happens :o

    I recommend Branston in preference to Heinz! Out of interest, at what price did you load onto Clinton/dump Trump.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Flashman (deceased), is that a change to the Scottish Greens' position?
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited October 2016
    Blue_rog said:

    I've just seen that the Canadians have walked out of the free trade negotiations in disgust. Anyone heard any more?

    I read the other day that the UK export market is three times the size of the Germans for Canada. (edit: it's actually five times).

    It's hard to imagine just how insignificant some of the other nations in the EU are to Canada.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    A small percentage of the overall voting public in the USA.

    Maybe. But you can see how this is going. If Trump loses, the Repubs will be told that if only, if only they had selected someone more appealing to the centre, more appealing to the swing voter, the minority voter, that would get them over the line.

    And they will probably do that. And then they'll lose again.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,603
    taffys said:

    ''We will see how many 'Trumpers' they are soon. I suspect it will be a small enough percentage that the GOP would be better getting rid of them ''

    Yep it will indeed be fascinating to find out. Enough for him to smash much better backed rivals in the primaries, though, to be sure.

    Trump licked Bush in the primaries.

    Or was that just locker-room talk?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917

    Pulpstar said:

    My worst result is now an Electoral college sweep by Trump.

    It is baked beans for a year if that happens :o

    I recommend Branston in preference to Heinz! Out of interest, at what price did you load onto Clinton/dump Trump.
    I haven't actually, will PM you.
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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    taffys said:

    A small percentage of the overall voting public in the USA.

    Maybe. But you can see how this is going. If Trump loses, the Repubs will be told that if only, if only they had selected someone more appealing to the centre, more appealing to the swing voter, the minority voter, that would get them over the line.

    And they will probably do that. And then they'll lose again.

    Or they will nominate another crazy racist. And lose again.

    They have no option other than move to the centre. Trump's direction is a long term loser for obvious reasons.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,413

    Pulpstar said:

    My worst result is now an Electoral college sweep by Trump.

    It is baked beans for a year if that happens :o

    I recommend Branston in preference to Heinz! Out of interest, at what price did you load onto Clinton/dump Trump.
    Another Branston baked beans fan - so much nicer!
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,055
    taffys said:

    A small percentage of the overall voting public in the USA.

    Maybe. But you can see how this is going. If Trump loses, the Repubs will be told that if only, if only they had selected someone more appealing to the centre, more appealing to the swing voter, the minority voter, that would get them over the line.

    And they will probably do that. And then they'll lose again.

    What they need is a more credible American nationalist who doesn't completely disdain Trump's platform. A Putin to Trump's Zhirinovsky.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    My mother also prefers Branston to Heinz.

    Mr. Jonathan, when we leave the EU, can we go back to using d for denarii rather than p for pence?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,204

    taffys said:

    ''We will see how many 'Trumpers' they are soon. I suspect it will be a small enough percentage that the GOP would be better getting rid of them ''

    Yep it will indeed be fascinating to find out. Enough for him to smash much better backed rivals in the primaries, though, to be sure.

    Trump licked Bush in the primaries.

    Or was that just locker-room talk?
    It seems there are two groups who want radical change. On the Right there's the Tea Party/Trumpsters, angry at being left behind and wanting a return to a lost America, probably one where Ike was in the White House and the mills still worked. On the Left though there are the Bernie Sanders supporters - who equally are angry and unhappy with modern America, for very different reasons.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,204
    "Among Republican and Republican-leaning likely voters, 45 percent said they might not accept the election as legitimate if their candidate doesn't win, including 18 percent who said they would definitely not accept the outcome . A majority of Republicans—53 percent—said they would accept the results of the election if their candidate loses."

    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/poll-clinton-won-final-debate-53-republicans-would-accept-election-n670626
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814
    edited October 2016

    Pulpstar said:

    My worst result is now an Electoral college sweep by Trump.

    It is baked beans for a year if that happens :o

    I recommend Branston in preference to Heinz! Out of interest, at what price did you load onto Clinton/dump Trump.
    Another Branston baked beans fan - so much nicer!
    Vote for Branston from me too.

    Heinz were OK but about three years ago they suddenly went very bland so we changed to Branston and haven't looked back since! :smiley:
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    taffys said:

    A small percentage of the overall voting public in the USA.

    Maybe. But you can see how this is going. If Trump loses, the Repubs will be told that if only, if only they had selected someone more appealing to the centre, more appealing to the swing voter, the minority voter, that would get them over the line.

    And they will probably do that. And then they'll lose again.

    What they need is a more credible American nationalist who doesn't completely disdain Trump's platform. A Putin to Trump's Zhirinovsky.
    Pence ? He seems pretty sensible, handles himself well on the TV, and has no obvious skeletons in the closet. I am sure he will find a way to disown Trump's shortcoming as personality issues rather than problems with the platform, using the opportunity to tiptoe away from the more stupid bits of the platform. He can then spend three years touring blue collar areas and showing everyone his nationalist awakening from his former machine republican image.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,413
    GIN1138 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My worst result is now an Electoral college sweep by Trump.

    It is baked beans for a year if that happens :o

    I recommend Branston in preference to Heinz! Out of interest, at what price did you load onto Clinton/dump Trump.
    Another Branston baked beans fan - so much nicer!
    Vote for Branston from me too.

    Heinz were OK but about three years ago they suddenly went very bland so we changed to Branston and haven't looked back since! :smiley:
    There was a big uproar on social media when Tesco took Branston off the shelves I seem to remember!
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814
    Anybody know whether Rod is still calling it for DonDon?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,204
    GIN1138 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My worst result is now an Electoral college sweep by Trump.

    It is baked beans for a year if that happens :o

    I recommend Branston in preference to Heinz! Out of interest, at what price did you load onto Clinton/dump Trump.
    Another Branston baked beans fan - so much nicer!
    Vote for Branston from me too.

    Heinz were OK but about three years ago they suddenly went very bland so we changed to Branston and haven't looked back since! :smiley:
    You haven't lived (baked beans wise) unless you have tried Biona Baked Beans imho. Superb.

    http://www.biona.co.uk/product-15-4.html
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814

    GIN1138 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My worst result is now an Electoral college sweep by Trump.

    It is baked beans for a year if that happens :o

    I recommend Branston in preference to Heinz! Out of interest, at what price did you load onto Clinton/dump Trump.
    Another Branston baked beans fan - so much nicer!
    Vote for Branston from me too.

    Heinz were OK but about three years ago they suddenly went very bland so we changed to Branston and haven't looked back since! :smiley:
    You haven't lived (baked beans wise) unless you have tried Biona Baked Beans imho. Superb.

    http://www.biona.co.uk/product-15-4.html
    They do look quite nice....
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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    Indigo said:

    taffys said:

    A small percentage of the overall voting public in the USA.

    Maybe. But you can see how this is going. If Trump loses, the Repubs will be told that if only, if only they had selected someone more appealing to the centre, more appealing to the swing voter, the minority voter, that would get them over the line.

    And they will probably do that. And then they'll lose again.

    What they need is a more credible American nationalist who doesn't completely disdain Trump's platform. A Putin to Trump's Zhirinovsky.
    Pence ? He seems pretty sensible, handles himself well on the TV, and has no obvious skeletons in the closet. I am sure he will find a way to disown Trump's shortcoming as personality issues rather than problems with the platform, using the opportunity to tiptoe away from the more stupid bits of the platform. He can then spend three years touring blue collar areas and showing everyone his nationalist awakening from his former machine republican image.
    Maybe, but he has pretty extreme abortion views which won't help him women.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,204
    Owen Jones:

    "The problem is when polls are significantly wrong, it is almost always to the detriment of Labour. The two big polling disasters of recent times were in 1992 and 2015: on both occasions, the reality was much worse for Labour."


    https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/polling-and-labours-prospects-9cd39945ce5e#.momarvbou
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814
    edited October 2016

    GIN1138 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My worst result is now an Electoral college sweep by Trump.

    It is baked beans for a year if that happens :o

    I recommend Branston in preference to Heinz! Out of interest, at what price did you load onto Clinton/dump Trump.
    Another Branston baked beans fan - so much nicer!
    Vote for Branston from me too.

    Heinz were OK but about three years ago they suddenly went very bland so we changed to Branston and haven't looked back since! :smiley:
    There was a big uproar on social media when Tesco took Branston off the shelves I seem to remember!
    Tesco is hopeless. Things just "come and go" for weeks, even months at a time. How they are the UK biggest retailer I have no idea.

    Sainsbury's very good for supplies with Asda and Morrisons better than Tesco as well.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    619 said:

    Indigo said:

    taffys said:

    A small percentage of the overall voting public in the USA.

    Maybe. But you can see how this is going. If Trump loses, the Repubs will be told that if only, if only they had selected someone more appealing to the centre, more appealing to the swing voter, the minority voter, that would get them over the line.

    And they will probably do that. And then they'll lose again.

    What they need is a more credible American nationalist who doesn't completely disdain Trump's platform. A Putin to Trump's Zhirinovsky.
    Pence ? He seems pretty sensible, handles himself well on the TV, and has no obvious skeletons in the closet. I am sure he will find a way to disown Trump's shortcoming as personality issues rather than problems with the platform, using the opportunity to tiptoe away from the more stupid bits of the platform. He can then spend three years touring blue collar areas and showing everyone his nationalist awakening from his former machine republican image.
    Maybe, but he has pretty extreme abortion views which won't help him women.
    So did Rubio, and he was ahead in all the polling against Hillary.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,204
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My worst result is now an Electoral college sweep by Trump.

    It is baked beans for a year if that happens :o

    I recommend Branston in preference to Heinz! Out of interest, at what price did you load onto Clinton/dump Trump.
    Another Branston baked beans fan - so much nicer!
    Vote for Branston from me too.

    Heinz were OK but about three years ago they suddenly went very bland so we changed to Branston and haven't looked back since! :smiley:
    You haven't lived (baked beans wise) unless you have tried Biona Baked Beans imho. Superb.

    http://www.biona.co.uk/product-15-4.html
    They do look quite nice....
    Not cheap mind.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,850
    News of the Hoosiers:

    http://wishtv.com/2016/10/20/hoosier-survey-trump-leads-in-indiana-pence-helps/

    Trump up by 6 in Indiana which was a spectacular win for Obama in 2008 but Romney won it 54-44 last time. Given Pence is on the ticket you'd expect a boost for the GOP and Trump is up 43-37 (Johnson 9) which, as with the earlier GA poll, suggests a 2% swing to HRC from 2012 which isn't huge and doesn't yet support the idea of a big Democrat win.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    stodge said:

    News of the Hoosiers:

    http://wishtv.com/2016/10/20/hoosier-survey-trump-leads-in-indiana-pence-helps/

    Trump up by 6 in Indiana which was a spectacular win for Obama in 2008 but Romney won it 54-44 last time. Given Pence is on the ticket you'd expect a boost for the GOP and Trump is up 43-37 (Johnson 9) which, as with the earlier GA poll, suggests a 2% swing to HRC from 2012 which isn't huge and doesn't yet support the idea of a big Democrat win.

    I doubt Hillary will win IN, it drops after TX I reckon.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,871
    Tory Surge........
    Scottish parliament voting intention (const.):
    SNP: 51%
    CON: 21%
    LAB: 18%
    LDEM: 7%
    (via BMG / 28 Sep - 04 Oct)
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,413
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My worst result is now an Electoral college sweep by Trump.

    It is baked beans for a year if that happens :o

    I recommend Branston in preference to Heinz! Out of interest, at what price did you load onto Clinton/dump Trump.
    Another Branston baked beans fan - so much nicer!
    Vote for Branston from me too.

    Heinz were OK but about three years ago they suddenly went very bland so we changed to Branston and haven't looked back since! :smiley:
    There was a big uproar on social media when Tesco took Branston off the shelves I seem to remember!
    Tesco is hopeless. Things just "come and go" for weeks, even months at a time. How they are the UK biggest retailer I have no idea.

    Sainsbury's very good for supplies with Asda and Morrisons better than Tesco as well.
    It's because they're quite agressive with their suppliers. If they don't get the price they want, they'll take it off, never mind whether it's a household name.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    ToryJim said:

    619 said:
    Any news on the gender of the remaining 1.4%?
    There is such a thing as gender non-binary ;)
    No there isn't.
    It's just brain damage and needs treatment.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    AndyJS said:

    Jonathan said:

    nunu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The high level of unemployment resulting from the high minimum wage and lack of tax credits will certainly help to reduce migration. As will the rocketing crime wave, as desperate people with no welfare support and no way of earning a living are forced to steal to survive.

    No way of earning a living? The minimum wage is a real living wage and the economic boost from paying people more has always worked out with more jobs being created than being lost. You sound like the Tories and big business in 1997.
    You're not taking into account the sad truth that a significant number of people are simply not capable of performing work that any company would value at £12.50/h.
    I think everyone is capable of that, they just need the right motivation, dedication and training to achieve it. In all honesty it's not a massive jump. If you add employers NI to the current NLW that's already £8.20/h, the NLW would have to rise by 8-9% per year to meet the five year target. A lot of the additonal cost of employment can be reclaimed through higher prices and wage reductions at the top.

    Anyway, I know it's possible since even the lowest worker in Switzerland receives wages of at least 18Fr/h which is higher than £12.50 even with a more favourable exchange rate.
    I believe McDonalds in Zurich pays close to twice that.
    How much does a big Mac cost there?
    No idea. But last week I paid nearly 9 quid for a Starbucks hot chocolate at Zurich airport that costs three quid in the UK. Delays!
    You pay the equivalent of about £9 for a coffee in Australia these days. I had to ration myself when I was there in August.
    Between £1 and £1.30 here in SE Spain for excellent coffee + water + OJ + small croissants/doughnuts! Sea views gratis :)
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    So has that homosexual pardon bill just been torpedoed?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,871
    Scottish Westminster voting intention:
    SNP: 49% (-1)
    CON: 20% (+5)
    LAB: 17% (-7)
    LDEM: 8% (-)
    (via BMG / 28 Sep - 04 Oct)
    Chgs. vs. GE2015
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,413
    GeoffM said:

    ToryJim said:

    619 said:
    Any news on the gender of the remaining 1.4%?
    There is such a thing as gender non-binary ;)
    No there isn't.
    It's just brain damage and needs treatment.
    I think it's something to do with plastic from bags in the water table. If it's making frogs change sex, it has to be having an impact elsewhere.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,871
    Half of US 18-35-year-olds prefer a meteor apocalypse to Trump as President. (33% prefer the meteor to Clinton.)
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My worst result is now an Electoral college sweep by Trump.

    It is baked beans for a year if that happens :o

    I recommend Branston in preference to Heinz! Out of interest, at what price did you load onto Clinton/dump Trump.
    Another Branston baked beans fan - so much nicer!
    Vote for Branston from me too.

    Heinz were OK but about three years ago they suddenly went very bland so we changed to Branston and haven't looked back since! :smiley:
    There was a big uproar on social media when Tesco took Branston off the shelves I seem to remember!
    Tesco is hopeless. Things just "come and go" for weeks, even months at a time. How they are the UK biggest retailer I have no idea.

    Sainsbury's very good for supplies with Asda and Morrisons better than Tesco as well.
    It's because they're quite agressive with their suppliers. If they don't get the price they want, they'll take it off, never mind whether it's a household name.
    It certainly seems that way. But as a customer I've completely given up on them. Guess I must be in the minority though.
  • Options
    Pulpstar: "There's another psephologist whose forecast is at 341 for Clinton too. Although his prediction is for Trump.

    Eh?? .... Non comprendo.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814
    edited October 2016
    malcolmg said:

    Tory Surge........
    Scottish parliament voting intention (const.):
    SNP: 51%
    CON: 21%
    LAB: 18%
    LDEM: 7%
    (via BMG / 28 Sep - 04 Oct)

    Afternoon Malc!

    Nevermind the Tories, look like it's: Lib-Dems [NOT] Winning Here! :smiley:
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,871
    Alistair said:

    So has that homosexual pardon bill just been torpedoed?

    Good old progressive Tories, when do children start going up chimneys again.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,413
    edited October 2016
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My worst result is now an Electoral college sweep by Trump.

    It is baked beans for a year if that happens :o

    I recommend Branston in preference to Heinz! Out of interest, at what price did you load onto Clinton/dump Trump.
    Another Branston baked beans fan - so much nicer!
    Vote for Branston from me too.

    Heinz were OK but about three years ago they suddenly went very bland so we changed to Branston and haven't looked back since! :smiley:
    There was a big uproar on social media when Tesco took Branston off the shelves I seem to remember!
    Tesco is hopeless. Things just "come and go" for weeks, even months at a time. How they are the UK biggest retailer I have no idea.

    Sainsbury's very good for supplies with Asda and Morrisons better than Tesco as well.
    It's because they're quite agressive with their suppliers. If they don't get the price they want, they'll take it off, never mind whether it's a household name.
    It certainly seems that way. But as a customer I've completely given up on them. Guess I must be in the minority though.
    I flit between Tesco delivery and Sainsbury's delivery when one of them annoys me too much. Neither company seems much to care about my temporary absences!
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,871
    edited October 2016
    GIN1138 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Tory Surge........
    Scottish parliament voting intention (const.):
    SNP: 51%
    CON: 21%
    LAB: 18%
    LDEM: 7%
    (via BMG / 28 Sep - 04 Oct)

    Afternoon Malc!

    Nevermind the Tories, look like it's: Lib-Dems [NOT] Winning Here! :smiley:
    afternoon Gin, just starting to wind down , will soon be beer o'clock. Those LD's will be extinct soon, in Scotland at least.

    PS: They are lucky that losers get some freebie seats
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917

    Pulpstar: "There's another psephologist whose forecast is at 341 for Clinton too. Although his prediction is for Trump.

    Eh?? .... Non comprendo.

    Click your name to head to vanilla, all is explained there.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:

    So has that homosexual pardon bill just been torpedoed?

    Good old progressive Tories, when do children start going up chimneys again.
    It is a way out, but care for a bet on Orkney and Shetland in 2020 ?
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814
    malcolmg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Tory Surge........
    Scottish parliament voting intention (const.):
    SNP: 51%
    CON: 21%
    LAB: 18%
    LDEM: 7%
    (via BMG / 28 Sep - 04 Oct)

    Afternoon Malc!

    Nevermind the Tories, look like it's: Lib-Dems [NOT] Winning Here! :smiley:
    afternoon Gin, just starting to wind down , will soon be beer o'clock.
    Enjoy. :)

  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,871
    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:

    So has that homosexual pardon bill just been torpedoed?

    Good old progressive Tories, when do children start going up chimneys again.
    It is a way out, but care for a bet on Orkney and Shetland in 2020 ?
    you on Tories
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:

    So has that homosexual pardon bill just been torpedoed?

    Good old progressive Tories, when do children start going up chimneys again.
    It is a way out, but care for a bet on Orkney and Shetland in 2020 ?
    you on Tories
    Lol no, Lib Dems vs SNP for £100 :)

    I'm taking the Lib Dems ;)
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,871
    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:

    So has that homosexual pardon bill just been torpedoed?

    Good old progressive Tories, when do children start going up chimneys again.
    It is a way out, but care for a bet on Orkney and Shetland in 2020 ?
    you on Tories
    Lol no, Lib Dems vs SNP for £100 :)

    I'm taking the Lib Dems ;)
    You are all heart, Ibet you are offering evens as well just to be kind.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:

    So has that homosexual pardon bill just been torpedoed?

    Good old progressive Tories, when do children start going up chimneys again.
    It is a way out, but care for a bet on Orkney and Shetland in 2020 ?
    you on Tories
    Lol no, Lib Dems vs SNP for £100 :)

    I'm taking the Lib Dems ;)
    You are all heart, Ibet you are offering evens as well just to be kind.
    Especially for you :)
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,871
    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:

    So has that homosexual pardon bill just been torpedoed?

    Good old progressive Tories, when do children start going up chimneys again.
    It is a way out, but care for a bet on Orkney and Shetland in 2020 ?
    you on Tories
    Lol no, Lib Dems vs SNP for £100 :)

    I'm taking the Lib Dems ;)
    You are all heart, Ibet you are offering evens as well just to be kind.
    Especially for you :)
    How about a 3X , Orkney and shetland , Falkirk and Dundee East £25 Doubles and £25 Treble
  • Options

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    My worst result is now an Electoral college sweep by Trump.

    It is baked beans for a year if that happens :o

    I recommend Branston in preference to Heinz! Out of interest, at what price did you load onto Clinton/dump Trump.
    Another Branston baked beans fan - so much nicer!
    Vote for Branston from me too.

    Heinz were OK but about three years ago they suddenly went very bland so we changed to Branston and haven't looked back since! :smiley:
    There was a big uproar on social media when Tesco took Branston off the shelves I seem to remember!
    Tesco is hopeless. Things just "come and go" for weeks, even months at a time. How they are the UK biggest retailer I have no idea.

    Sainsbury's very good for supplies with Asda and Morrisons better than Tesco as well.
    It's because they're quite agressive with their suppliers. If they don't get the price they want, they'll take it off, never mind whether it's a household name.
    I think it has a great deal to do with the individual store management and specifically with the degree of idleness of the shelf fillers. The computers may be sufficiently clever to re-order the supplies, but they can't yet place them on the shelves.
    I've long ago given up enquiring of supermarket staff whether they have a particular item, only to be told immediately and unequivocally that they are out of stock - like they have a perfect photographic memory of every last item held in the back of the store.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:

    So has that homosexual pardon bill just been torpedoed?

    Good old progressive Tories, when do children start going up chimneys again.
    It is a way out, but care for a bet on Orkney and Shetland in 2020 ?
    you on Tories
    Lol no, Lib Dems vs SNP for £100 :)

    I'm taking the Lib Dems ;)
    You are all heart, Ibet you are offering evens as well just to be kind.
    Especially for you :)
    How about a 3X , Orkney and shetland , Falkirk and Dundee East £25 Doubles and £25 Treble
    No thanks :) Just Orkney and Shetland. In fact I'll go 6-5 for the SNP there for you, just to be generous.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    Putin's carrier appears to be belching out quite a bit of smoke, some RN types on Twitter appear to think it is having trouble with boilers, engines or fuel.

    Russians will be hoping it can limp into the Med.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited October 2016

    I've long ago given up enquiring of supermarket staff whether they have a particular item, only to be told immediately and unequivocally that they are out of stock - like they have a perfect photographic memory of every last item held in the back of the store.

    The answer to that is mostly close to nothing. With just-in-time fulfilment most modern supermarkets turned their backroom stores into retail spaces. Now they tend to transmit off to their data centre whatever has been sold that day at say 6pm, by about midnight a truck is on the road with exactly what is required to restock the shelves to full again plus a few extras based on data analysis, like a few extra fans if hot weather is forecast. Then by 5-6am the shelves are fully restocked for the next day. Ergo in most cases, if it isnt on the shelf, unless its in the early hours of the morning, they really dont have it.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. 619, for some reason I can't connect to Twitter presently. Could you elaborate?
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784

    Mr. 619, for some reason I can't connect to Twitter presently. Could you elaborate?

    The Ruskies
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar: "There's another psephologist whose forecast is at 341 for Clinton too. Although his prediction is for Trump.

    Eh?? .... Non comprendo.

    Click your name to head to vanilla, all is explained there.
    Thanks for that. I find all the data somewhat confusing, but I'll wrap a damp towel round my head this evening and try to get to grips with it!
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,204

    Mr. 619, for some reason I can't connect to Twitter presently. Could you elaborate?

    There has been a massive Denial of Service attack on a domain name server in US. This is where the server gets flooded with false or dodgy requests in order to disable it.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    dr_spyn said:

    Putin's carrier appears to be belching out quite a bit of smoke, some RN types on Twitter appear to think it is having trouble with boilers, engines or fuel.

    Russians will be hoping it can limp into the Med.

    They have a tugboat with them.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Borough, ah, right. Cheers.

    Mr. 619, when I said 'elaborate' I meant a bit more elaborately :p
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Hmm. Couldn't access the comments here for about an hour. Got the header, but nothing else.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Sounds like the Canadians are mighty pissed off at the EU right now. The sooner we can negotiate our own trade deals, the better.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,989

    GeoffM said:

    ToryJim said:

    619 said:
    Any news on the gender of the remaining 1.4%?
    There is such a thing as gender non-binary ;)
    No there isn't.
    It's just brain damage and needs treatment.
    I think it's something to do with plastic from bags in the water table. If it's making frogs change sex, it has to be having an impact elsewhere.
    It is the phthalates. It is a feminiser. It is used to make PVC more flexible. If you are a fella, do not drink orange juice out of a PVC bottle unless you don't want to continue to be a fella.
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    dr_spyn said:

    Putin's carrier appears to be belching out quite a bit of smoke, some RN types on Twitter appear to think it is having trouble with boilers, engines or fuel.

    Russians will be hoping it can limp into the Med.

    The wretched ship is knackered has been for years. It broke down at sea a few years ago and nowadays doesn't normally sail without an large ocean going tug in attendance. An unreliable heap of junk that should have been scrapped years ago but has been kept going for prestige reasons.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. T, for a briefer time I had the same issue.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    F-Rus ENG A MAO not resolving :p ?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Pulpstar, odd place for a Russian fleet to be anyway.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,204
    MTimT said:

    Sounds like the Canadians are mighty pissed off at the EU right now. The sooner we can negotiate our own trade deals, the better.

    Or we may end up in same situation. Gone from Single Market and no way back in thanks to a veto from Ruritania.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917

    Mr. Pulpstar, odd place for a Russian fleet to be anyway.

    On its way to EMS.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    SeanT said:

    Jonathan said:

    nunu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The high level of unemployment resulting from the high minimum wage and lack of tax credits will certainly help to reduce migration. As will the rocketing crime wave, as desperate people with no welfare support and no way of earning a living are forced to steal to survive.

    No way of earning a living? The minimum wage is a real living wage and the economic boost from paying people more has always worked out with more jobs being created than being lost. You sound like the Tories and big business in 1997.
    You're not taking into account the sad truth that a significant number of people are simply not capable of performing work that any company would value at £12.50/h.
    I think evet's possible since even the lowest worker in Switzerland receives wages of at least 18Fr/h which is higher than £12.50 even with a more favourable exchange rate.
    I believe McDonalds in Zurich pays close to twice that.
    How much does a big Mac cost there?
    No idea. But last week I paid nearly 9 quid for a Starbucks hot chocolate at Zurich airport that costs three quid in the UK. Delays!
    Three quid for a freaking cup of Hot Chocolate! I think I'll stick to my policy of only buying alcoholic drinks. It may not be much cheaper but has got to be better value.
    Talking of the weak £, and anecdotally, I've noticed lots of French and Italian people wandering down Parkway, in Camden - looking in estate agents windows, quite intently.

    London is flooded with foreign tourists right now (so is Devon) because of the feeble £, but this looks specifically like property hunting.

    Hmm. I wonder if paraxodically we might see a surge in London property sales. Let's face it, if you're rich, from Asia, the USA, or the continent, and looking to invest money, one of the best investments in modern history - London property - has just, suddenly, got 20% cheaper.

    Of course if you're thinking of buying, you have to weight the possibility that the £ will fall further, or the London market will collapse post-Brexit, but against that you have to weigh the possibility that this is a fairly brief and unprecedented bargain price, for an asset that nearly always appreciates very fast, and you should seize the moment.

    We shall see.
    Bloody foreigners are just shoving £'s in my pocket. What can a Londoner do ?
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil
    If the EU can't do a free trade deal with Canada or the UK, what's the future of the Customs Union? It's depressing. https://twitter.com/pcol
  • Options
    Apparently the Russian aircraft carrier is supposed to get a refit next year so that it can serve another 25 years... that's half a century total on the water!
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Barnesian said:

    GeoffM said:

    ToryJim said:

    619 said:
    Any news on the gender of the remaining 1.4%?
    There is such a thing as gender non-binary ;)
    No there isn't.
    It's just brain damage and needs treatment.
    I think it's something to do with plastic from bags in the water table. If it's making frogs change sex, it has to be having an impact elsewhere.
    It is the phthalates. It is a feminiser. It is used to make PVC more flexible. If you are a fella, do not drink orange juice out of a PVC bottle unless you don't want to continue to be a fella.
    Mystery solved! Now we know what has happened to Scott_P over the last year.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Rabbit, bah. The enormo-haddock can do that with ease.
  • Options
    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Apparently the Russian aircraft carrier is supposed to get a refit next year so that it can serve another 25 years... that's half a century total on the water!

    Not so unusual for a carrier. The USN's Nimitz class carriers are expected to last that long, and the last USS Enterprise was in commission for fifty years, 1962-2012.
This discussion has been closed.