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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trump goes on the offensive against the media – a sign of the

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  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 10,349
    Dead girls, live boys, or blown goats...is that what is on The Trump tapes?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 57,994

    Pulpstar said:

    F*ck it, lets just go the whole hog and be part of the new Russia-USA alliance, noone is going to f*ck with that.

    Where's your defence NOW Germany :)

    Ha. we'll piss on Mrs Merkel and her acolytes

    oh wait
    They'll be relying on the French. Bit of a table turner from 80 years ago ;)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,488
    Pulpstar said:

    F*ck it, lets just go the whole hog and be part of the new Russia-USA alliance, noone is going to f*ck with that.

    Where's your defence NOW Germany :)

    Our flags are the same colors.. match made in heaven, clearly :p
  • CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840
    edited January 2017
    I see the BBC are backing fake news outlet "CNN" - their headline is "Trump shouts down.." errr... anyone watching the video can clearly see that it's the CCN idiot shouting down the President-elect.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 297
    edited January 2017
    Do you think Trump is actually "worried" about any revelations in the sense of "troubles his conscience"? He will deny them, lie and carry on as if they weren't happening. His supporters will continue to support him, because they don't believe the media anyway. And what is anyone going to do about that? 
  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,488
    dr_spyn said:

    Dead girls, live boys, or blown goats...is that what is on The Trump tapes?

    It's a video of him riding Shergar with Lord Lucan looking on in the background....
  • mwadams said:

    Do you think Trump is actually "worried" about any revelations in the sense of "troubles his conscience"? He will deny them, lie and carry on as if they weren't happing. His supporters will continue to support him, because they don't believe the media anyway. And what is anyone going to do about that? 

    If he proves to be an electoral liability for the GOP he will be impeached - either by them or by the Democrats because they have won the mid-terms.

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 7,655
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    F*ck it, lets just go the whole hog and be part of the new Russia-USA alliance, noone is going to f*ck with that.

    Where's your defence NOW Germany :)

    Our flags are the same colors.. match made in heaven, clearly :p
    All proper countries have red white n blue flags because prior to artificial dyes, no other colour was available.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    I totally agree with the penultimate sentence in Mike's piece here. When video or audio is released showing that Trump has unmistakably done something that he has emphatically denied, there will be trouble. We would be likely to be way above the level at which his lawyers could argue over the meaning of the word "is". There will probably be more to come before 20 January.

    One of his most remarkable statements today was "Russia can help us fight Isis".

    No, Trump, you narcissist nutcase. Russia is fighting ISIS. The US is not. The US has been undermining the Russian war effort against ISIS. The US has been helping Al-Qaeda and the US is allied to the main funder of Isis, the US-armed and British-armed Salafist Saudi dictatorship.

    Trump needs an SS, fast.

    Hugo Chavez had most of the media against him, but Hugo Chavez wasn't a madman who boasted about the length of his willy in public as Trump has done. Maintaining dual power for years is an exceptional historical feat. Trump is nowhere near up to it.

    What a shame, eh, that the "retired" British intelligence officer hasn't come forward to tell us whether the published version of his supposed document is accurate or not. Come on, Alex Younger, has a cat got your tongue?

    Could someone possibly have made a move of the kind that Alistair McAlpine recommends in his book The New Machiavelli (page 176), and spread a false accusation in order to weaken the impact of other accusations?

    Of course Trump knows full well that hotel rooms are bugged, and it's unlikely that he'll get whores to wee on him when he knows he's on film. On the other hand, Trump is genuinely insane. Take a look at his demeanour at the 2011 White House correspondents' dinner when Obama laid into him and then tell me he doesn't hate Obama - and I mean "hate". And like Ceausescu, Trump has a lackey follow him around with a bottle of cleansing alcohol for him to wash his hands in after he's shaken hands with someone. Mussolini banned handshaking, by the way. I could easily imagine sh*t and p*ss being involved in the insane Trump's actions or fantasies when he thinks of Obama.

    A germaphobe? Well, they say many taboos come associated with fetishes.

    But what about the other allegations in the document? For example, the alleged role of his lawyer Michael Cohen in dealings with Russia? Cohen has denied ever being in Prague. What else does he deny?

  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,488
    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    F*ck it, lets just go the whole hog and be part of the new Russia-USA alliance, noone is going to f*ck with that.

    Where's your defence NOW Germany :)

    Our flags are the same colors.. match made in heaven, clearly :p
    All proper countries have red white n blue flags because prior to artificial dyes, no other colour was available.
    Weren't they just extremely expensive? Basically we were just a bit cheap!
  • I see the BBC are backing fake news outlet "CNN" - their headline is "Trump shouts down.." errr... anyone watching the video can clearly see that it's the CCN idiot shouting down the President-elect.

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @CJH_News: The BBC's Paul Wood, a respected foreign correspondent, says he has another source claiming multiple #Trump tapes exist. This story has legs

    Course it has legs. Will it do him any harm? How much lower can he go in terms of polling? When someone is so tarnished I don't think it makes that much difference as he will always have die hard support. If there is a sex tape I would not be surprised if Trump tried to sell it from one of his companies! The reasoning is if someone is going to make money out of it - it might as well be him!

    Not sure about that. It will harm him in Congress and that could really hurt. If he becomes a complete liability to the GOP - or the Dems win in 2018 - he may not complete his four year term.

    There will never be a sufficient GOP majority in Congress to impeach Trump and the Democrats would need to win the Senate as well as the House to have even a chance of doing so

    Not all GOP Congressmen would have to vote for impeachment, if the Democrats vote for it. If it gets passed the House, then all bets are off in the Senate. It is unlikely, but these are very different times.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 57,994
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    F*ck it, lets just go the whole hog and be part of the new Russia-USA alliance, noone is going to f*ck with that.

    Where's your defence NOW Germany :)

    Our flags are the same colors.. match made in heaven, clearly :p
    A RED, WHITE and BLUE Brexit.

    You know much as I voted and think we'd have been better off remaining, I'm not certain my heart is entirely in it at this moment in time.

    Trump's economic driving plan that should ramp a bit of inflation and interest rates combined with his utterly delicious psephological result, along with Putin's masterful diplomacy is making the blood flow a bit.

    When you look at what what Putin has achieved diplomatically:

    Retaken Crimea, THE crucial Black Sea tactical point
    Established decent relations with Turkey
    & Syria
    And an incoming USA president

    That is far more than anyone else has achieved from an objective standpoint in the last few years.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election?

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 7,655

    mwadams said:

    Do you think Trump is actually "worried" about any revelations in the sense of "troubles his conscience"? He will deny them, lie and carry on as if they weren't happing. His supporters will continue to support him, because they don't believe the media anyway. And what is anyone going to do about that? 

    If he proves to be an electoral liability for the GOP he will be impeached - either by them or by the Democrats because they have won the mid-terms.

    I don't think pre-presidential watersports with consenting adults is impeachable. Clinton was impeached for the cover-up not the act (the charge was perjury while in office). Even if there were underage children and cocaine involved I think Trump can ride it out at least until he does something so much worse that we all forget about it anyway.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 5,978
    Dromedary said:

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election?

    No where at this stage which is good for you because it is a crazy bet. UKIP has collapsed over past year.

  • Do you know the way to San Escobar?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38582447
  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,488
    edited January 2017

    Dromedary said:

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election?

    No where at this stage which is good for you because it is a crazy bet. UKIP has collapsed over past year.

    And I don't rate Lord Professor (ahem) Nuttall. Can't see them doing that well.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 4,176
    edited January 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    F*ck it, lets just go the whole hog and be part of the new Russia-USA alliance, noone is going to f*ck with that.

    Where's your defence NOW Germany :)

    Our flags are the same colors.. match made in heaven, clearly :p
    A RED, WHITE and BLUE Brexit.

    You know much as I voted and think we'd have been better off remaining, I'm not certain my heart is entirely in it at this moment in time.

    Trump's economic driving plan that should ramp a bit of inflation and interest rates combined with his utterly delicious psephological result, along with Putin's masterful diplomacy is making the blood flow a bit.

    When you look at what what Putin has achieved diplomatically:

    Retaken Crimea, THE crucial Black Sea tactical point
    Established decent relations with Turkey
    & Syria
    And an incoming USA president

    That is far more than anyone else has achieved from an objective standpoint in the last few years.
    I suspect Putin’s best moments are yet to come.

    When the boundary between Russia and the Ukraine is fixed, it will be a lot further West than the Donbass.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 5,840

    I see the BBC are backing fake news outlet "CNN" - their headline is "Trump shouts down.." errr... anyone watching the video can clearly see that it's the CCN idiot shouting down the President-elect.

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @CJH_News: The BBC's Paul Wood, a respected foreign correspondent, says he has another source claiming multiple #Trump tapes exist. This story has legs

    Course it has legs. Will it do him any harm? How much lower can he go in terms of polling? When someone is so tarnished I don't think it makes that much difference as he will always have die hard support. If there is a sex tape I would not be surprised if Trump tried to sell it from one of his companies! The reasoning is if someone is going to make money out of it - it might as well be him!

    Not sure about that. It will harm him in Congress and that could really hurt. If he becomes a complete liability to the GOP - or the Dems win in 2018 - he may not complete his four year term.

    There will never be a sufficient GOP majority in Congress to impeach Trump and the Democrats would need to win the Senate as well as the House to have even a chance of doing so

    Not all GOP Congressmen would have to vote for impeachment, if the Democrats vote for it. If it gets passed the House, then all bets are off in the Senate. It is unlikely, but these are very different times.

    2/3 majority vote in Senate? Can't see it happening, especially under a republican senate
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    mwadams said:

    Do you think Trump is actually "worried" about any revelations in the sense of "troubles his conscience"? He will deny them, lie and carry on as if they weren't happing. His supporters will continue to support him, because they don't believe the media anyway. And what is anyone going to do about that? 

    If he proves to be an electoral liability for the GOP he will be impeached - either by them or by the Democrats because they have won the mid-terms.

    I don't think pre-presidential watersports with consenting adults is impeachable. Clinton was impeached for the cover-up not the act (the charge was perjury while in office). Even if there were underage children and cocaine involved I think Trump can ride it out at least until he does something so much worse that we all forget about it anyway.

    The good thing about Trump from an impeachment perspective is that you can be sure that something will turn up.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 32,036

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    F*ck it, lets just go the whole hog and be part of the new Russia-USA alliance, noone is going to f*ck with that.

    Where's your defence NOW Germany :)

    Our flags are the same colors.. match made in heaven, clearly :p
    A RED, WHITE and BLUE Brexit.

    You know much as I voted and think we'd have been better off remaining, I'm not certain my heart is entirely in it at this moment in time.

    Trump's economic driving plan that should ramp a bit of inflation and interest rates combined with his utterly delicious psephological result, along with Putin's masterful diplomacy is making the blood flow a bit.

    When you look at what what Putin has achieved diplomatically:

    Retaken Crimea, THE crucial Black Sea tactical point
    Established decent relations with Turkey
    & Syria
    And an incoming USA president

    That is far more than anyone else has achieved from an objective standpoint in the last few years.
    I suspect Putin’s best moments are yet to come.

    When the boundary between Russian and the Ukraine is fixed, it will be a lot further West than the Donbass.
    In this context I do think it's interesting that Lukashenko has suddenly signed a decree allowing visa free travel to Belarus from a huge list of countries.

    The Baltic states are a distraction really.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 10,349
    From t'Guardian Jan 11th



    1997.

    Another winter healthcare 'crisis'.
  • Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    F*ck it, lets just go the whole hog and be part of the new Russia-USA alliance, noone is going to f*ck with that.

    Where's your defence NOW Germany :)

    Our flags are the same colors.. match made in heaven, clearly :p
    A RED, WHITE and BLUE Brexit.

    You know much as I voted and think we'd have been better off remaining, I'm not certain my heart is entirely in it at this moment in time.

    Trump's economic driving plan that should ramp a bit of inflation and interest rates combined with his utterly delicious psephological result, along with Putin's masterful diplomacy is making the blood flow a bit.

    When you look at what what Putin has achieved diplomatically:

    Retaken Crimea, THE crucial Black Sea tactical point
    Established decent relations with Turkey
    & Syria
    And an incoming USA president

    That is far more than anyone else has achieved from an objective standpoint in the last few years.
    Geopolitically yes. Economically his nation is still a pretty bankrupt backwater.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 20,894

    Ishmael_Z said:

    mwadams said:

    Do you think Trump is actually "worried" about any revelations in the sense of "troubles his conscience"? He will deny them, lie and carry on as if they weren't happing. His supporters will continue to support him, because they don't believe the media anyway. And what is anyone going to do about that? 

    If he proves to be an electoral liability for the GOP he will be impeached - either by them or by the Democrats because they have won the mid-terms.

    I don't think pre-presidential watersports with consenting adults is impeachable. Clinton was impeached for the cover-up not the act (the charge was perjury while in office). Even if there were underage children and cocaine involved I think Trump can ride it out at least until he does something so much worse that we all forget about it anyway.

    The good thing about Trump from an impeachment perspective is that you can be sure that something will turn up.

    do you think hes anything more than a one term president in any case ?
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    mwadams said:

    Do you think Trump is actually "worried" about any revelations in the sense of "troubles his conscience"? He will deny them, lie and carry on as if they weren't happing. His supporters will continue to support him, because they don't believe the media anyway. And what is anyone going to do about that? 

    If he proves to be an electoral liability for the GOP he will be impeached - either by them or by the Democrats because they have won the mid-terms.

    I don't think pre-presidential watersports with consenting adults is impeachable. Clinton was impeached for the cover-up not the act (the charge was perjury while in office). Even if there were underage children and cocaine involved I think Trump can ride it out at least until he does something so much worse that we all forget about it anyway.

    The good thing about Trump from an impeachment perspective is that you can be sure that something will turn up.

    do you think hes anything more than a one term president in any case ?

    If he gets through four years, there's no reason why he can't do eight.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,488

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    F*ck it, lets just go the whole hog and be part of the new Russia-USA alliance, noone is going to f*ck with that.

    Where's your defence NOW Germany :)

    Our flags are the same colors.. match made in heaven, clearly :p
    A RED, WHITE and BLUE Brexit.

    You know much as I voted and think we'd have been better off remaining, I'm not certain my heart is entirely in it at this moment in time.

    Trump's economic driving plan that should ramp a bit of inflation and interest rates combined with his utterly delicious psephological result, along with Putin's masterful diplomacy is making the blood flow a bit.

    When you look at what what Putin has achieved diplomatically:

    Retaken Crimea, THE crucial Black Sea tactical point
    Established decent relations with Turkey
    & Syria
    And an incoming USA president

    That is far more than anyone else has achieved from an objective standpoint in the last few years.
    I suspect Putin’s best moments are yet to come.

    When the boundary between Russian and the Ukraine is fixed, it will be a lot further West than the Donbass.
    In this context I do think it's interesting that Lukashenko has suddenly signed a decree allowing visa free travel to Belarus from a huge list of countries.

    The Baltic states are a distraction really.
    I had thought Belarus was not much more than a Russian vassal/client state these days?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 20,894

    Ishmael_Z said:

    mwadams said:

    Do you think Trump is actually "worried" about any revelations in the sense of "troubles his conscience"? He will deny them, lie and carry on as if they weren't happing. His supporters will continue to support him, because they don't believe the media anyway. And what is anyone going to do about that? 

    If he proves to be an electoral liability for the GOP he will be impeached - either by them or by the Democrats because they have won the mid-terms.

    I don't think pre-presidential watersports with consenting adults is impeachable. Clinton was impeached for the cover-up not the act (the charge was perjury while in office). Even if there were underage children and cocaine involved I think Trump can ride it out at least until he does something so much worse that we all forget about it anyway.

    The good thing about Trump from an impeachment perspective is that you can be sure that something will turn up.

    do you think hes anything more than a one term president in any case ?

    If he gets through four years, there's no reason why he can't do eight.
    age
  • rkrkrk said:

    I see the BBC are backing fake news outlet "CNN" - their headline is "Trump shouts down.." errr... anyone watching the video can clearly see that it's the CCN idiot shouting down the President-elect.

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @CJH_News: The BBC's Paul Wood, a respected foreign correspondent, says he has another source claiming multiple #Trump tapes exist. This story has legs

    Course it has legs. Will it do him any harm? How much lower can he go in terms of polling? When someone is so tarnished I don't think it makes that much difference as he will always have die hard support. If there is a sex tape I would not be surprised if Trump tried to sell it from one of his companies! The reasoning is if someone is going to make money out of it - it might as well be him!

    Not sure about that. It will harm him in Congress and that could really hurt. If he becomes a complete liability to the GOP - or the Dems win in 2018 - he may not complete his four year term.

    There will never be a sufficient GOP majority in Congress to impeach Trump and the Democrats would need to win the Senate as well as the House to have even a chance of doing so

    Not all GOP Congressmen would have to vote for impeachment, if the Democrats vote for it. If it gets passed the House, then all bets are off in the Senate. It is unlikely, but these are very different times.

    2/3 majority vote in Senate? Can't see it happening, especially under a republican senate

    It would be tough, but if it gets past the House then it will start to have significant momentum. It would depend on Trump's popularity in the country as a whole.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 57,994

    Dromedary said:

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election?

    No where at this stage which is good for you because it is a crazy bet. UKIP has collapsed over past year.

    Betfair has a market, the odds are too low as Mike suggests though.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 69,732

    I see the BBC are backing fake news outlet "CNN" - their headline is "Trump shouts down.." errr... anyone watching the video can clearly see that it's the CCN idiot shouting down the President-elect.

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @CJH_News: The BBC's Paul Wood, a respected foreign correspondent, says he has another source claiming multiple #Trump tapes exist. This story has legs

    Course it has legs. Will it do him any harm? How much lower can he go in terms of polling? When someone is so tarnished I don't think it makes that much difference as he will always have die hard support. If there is a sex tape I would not be surprised if Trump tried to sell it from one of his companies! The reasoning is if someone is going to make money out of it - it might as well be him!

    Not sure about that. It will harm him in Congress and that could really hurt. If he becomes a complete liability to the GOP - or the Dems win in 2018 - he may not complete his four year term.

    There will never be a sufficient GOP majority in Congress to impeach Trump and the Democrats would need to win the Senate as well as the House to have even a chance of doing so

    Not all GOP Congressmen would have to vote for impeachment, if the Democrats vote for it. If it gets passed the House, then all bets are off in the Senate. It is unlikely, but these are very different times.

    A simple majority is required to pass the House but a 2/3 majority in the Senate which is a very high threshold and given the seats up in 2018 the Democrats have very little chance of winning the Senate even if they take the House. However 2020 will be more favourable to them so if Trump wins re-election against, say, Elizabeth Warren but the Democrats win both Houses of Congress his final term could be overshadowed by the threat of impeachment as Clinton's and Nixon's were
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 5,840

    rkrkrk said:

    I see the BBC are backing fake news outlet "CNN" - their headline is "Trump shouts down.." errr... anyone watching the video can clearly see that it's the CCN idiot shouting down the President-elect.

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @CJH_News: The BBC's Paul Wood, a respected foreign correspondent, says he has another source claiming multiple #Trump tapes exist. This story has legs

    Course it has legs. Will it do him any harm? How much lower can he go in terms of polling? When someone is so tarnished I don't think it makes that much difference as he will always have die hard support. If there is a sex tape I would not be surprised if Trump tried to sell it from one of his companies! The reasoning is if someone is going to make money out of it - it might as well be him!

    Not sure about that. It will harm him in Congress and that could really hurt. If he becomes a complete liability to the GOP - or the Dems win in 2018 - he may not complete his four year term.

    There will never be a sufficient GOP majority in Congress to impeach Trump and the Democrats would need to win the Senate as well as the House to have even a chance of doing so

    Not all GOP Congressmen would have to vote for impeachment, if the Democrats vote for it. If it gets passed the House, then all bets are off in the Senate. It is unlikely, but these are very different times.

    2/3 majority vote in Senate? Can't see it happening, especially under a republican senate

    It would be tough, but if it gets past the House then it will start to have significant momentum. It would depend on Trump's popularity in the country as a whole.

    Yes that's true.
    Also many/most republicans in their heart of hearts would surely prefer Pence...
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,770
    edited January 2017
    dr_spyn said:

    From t'Guardian Jan 11th



    1997.

    Another winter healthcare 'crisis'.
    Faintly amused to note that the consultant who resigned continues to work for the NHS, just for a different but adjacent trust.

    Edit: and Glenfield should have been merged but staggers on. Politics means that rational decisions aren't taken.
  • Has trump played a blinder by calling CNN fake news? One thing we know, the media love to talk about the media. I switch on bbc and they are spending minutes talking about CNN defending themselves and saying they are different from buzzfeed.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    Ishmael_Z said:

    mwadams said:

    Do you think Trump is actually "worried" about any revelations in the sense of "troubles his conscience"? He will deny them, lie and carry on as if they weren't happing. His supporters will continue to support him, because they don't believe the media anyway. And what is anyone going to do about that?

    If he proves to be an electoral liability for the GOP he will be impeached - either by them or by the Democrats because they have won the mid-terms.
    I don't think pre-presidential watersports with consenting adults is impeachable. Clinton was impeached for the cover-up not the act (the charge was perjury while in office). Even if there were underage children and cocaine involved I think Trump can ride it out at least until he does something so much worse that we all forget about it anyway.
    Falsing denying an action on oath when in office would be perjury, even if the action was lawful and regardless of when it happened. Accepting an emolument from a foreign state without congressional consent is also grounds for impeachment. Trump's representative is arguing that payments received for foreign hotel rooms aren't "emoluments". Watch this space.

    Trump is the most massive security risk. And he's flying by the seat of his pants.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,488
    Dromedary said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    mwadams said:

    Do you think Trump is actually "worried" about any revelations in the sense of "troubles his conscience"? He will deny them, lie and carry on as if they weren't happing. His supporters will continue to support him, because they don't believe the media anyway. And what is anyone going to do about that?

    If he proves to be an electoral liability for the GOP he will be impeached - either by them or by the Democrats because they have won the mid-terms.
    I don't think pre-presidential watersports with consenting adults is impeachable. Clinton was impeached for the cover-up not the act (the charge was perjury while in office). Even if there were underage children and cocaine involved I think Trump can ride it out at least until he does something so much worse that we all forget about it anyway.
    Falsing denying an action on oath when in office would be perjury, even if the action was lawful and regardless of when it happened. Accepting an emolument from a foreign state without congressional consent is also grounds for impeachment. Trump's representative is arguing that payments received for foreign hotel rooms aren't "emoluments". Watch this space.

    Trump is the most massive security risk. And he's flying by the seat of his pants.
    I thought they said in the press conference that money from foreign government people staying at Trump's hotels will be donated to the US Treasury?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,284
    dr_spyn said:

    From t'Guardian Jan 11th



    1997.

    Another winter healthcare 'crisis'.
    Yet surprisingly all was fine when Labour were in power.


    Oh wait.....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,488

    Has trump played a blinder by calling CNN fake news? One thing we know, the media love to talk about the media. I switch on bbc and they are spending minutes talking about CNN defending themselves and saying they are different from buzzfeed.

    Yeah, Buzzfeed is on the internet, while CNN is on the telly... :D
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 42,504
    edited January 2017
    Now bbc full on god worship for Obama.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 10,284

    Oh shit...Islamic terrorist attack underway in Spain. Gunman shooting in a supermarket with suicide vest.

    err - false alarm?
  • Floater said:

    Oh shit...Islamic terrorist attack underway in Spain. Gunman shooting in a supermarket with suicide vest.

    err - false alarm?
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4110542/Gunman-screaming-Allahu-Akbar-opens-fire-Spanish-supermarket.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 69,732

    rkrkrk said:

    I see the BBC are backing fake news outlet "CNN" - their headline is "Trump shouts down.." errr... anyone watching the video can clearly see that it's the CCN idiot shouting down the President-elect.

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @CJH_News: The BBC's Paul Wood, a respected foreign correspondent, says he has another source claiming multiple #Trump tapes exist. This story has legs

    Course it has legs. Will it do him any harm? How much lower can he go in terms of polling? When someone is so tarnished I don't think it makes that much difference as he will always have die hard support. If there is a sex tape I would not be surprised if Trump tried to sell it from one of his companies! The reasoning is if someone is going to make money out of it - it might as well be him!

    Not sure about that. It will harm him in Congress and that could really hurt. If he becomes a complete liability to the GOP - or the Dems win in 2018 - he may not complete his four year term.

    There will never be a sufficient GOP majority in Congress to impeach Trump and the Democrats would need to win the Senate as well as the House to have even a chance of doing so

    Not all GOP Congressmen would have to vote for impeachment, if the Democrats vote for it. If it gets passed the House, then all bets are off in the Senate. It is unlikely, but these are very different times.

    2/3 majority vote in Senate? Can't see it happening, especially under a republican senate

    It would be tough, but if it gets past the House then it will start to have significant momentum. It would depend on Trump's popularity in the country as a whole.

    No chance with a Republican Senate, the base would vote against any Senator who tried in their next primary
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 25,247

    Has trump played a blinder by calling CNN fake news? One thing we know, the media love to talk about the media. I switch on bbc and they are spending minutes talking about CNN defending themselves and saying they are different from buzzfeed.

    There's no difference between them, they've both spent the whole day ramping a very dubious and apparently made up story, just because it's negative about the president-elect.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 25,247
    Pulpstar said:

    Dromedary said:

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election?

    No where at this stage which is good for you because it is a crazy bet. UKIP has collapsed over past year.

    Betfair has a market, the odds are too low as Mike suggests though.
    Betfair have a market on vote share at the next GE? All I could find were markets on the date and seat totals.
  • Sandpit said:

    Has trump played a blinder by calling CNN fake news? One thing we know, the media love to talk about the media. I switch on bbc and they are spending minutes talking about CNN defending themselves and saying they are different from buzzfeed.

    There's no difference between them, they've both spent the whole day ramping a very dubious and apparently made up story, just because it's negative about the president-elect.
    We already knew there were errors in the documents, but if trumps claim that his lawyer never left the country compared to report that he was busy meeting with Russian spooks... seriously damages credibility. Boy who cried wolf and all that.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited January 2017
    RobD said:

    Dromedary said:

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election
    No where at this stage which is good for you because it is a crazy bet. UKIP has collapsed over past year.
    And I don't rate Lord Professor (ahem) Nuttall. Can't see them doing that well.
    "The Tories don't know what they're doing, Labour are a shambles, and the LibDems are a bunch of Europhiles. It was through our pressure that the British people eventually forced the establishment to hold this referendum, and it's only by voting for us that the British people can ensure that the country achieves something positive rather than going down the tubes!"

    Seems to me that that message could hit home with a lot of people. Admittedly they'd need to get themselves a proper Brexit policy. Pushing for Brexit without A50 is stupid. But there is a limit to the extent that the other three parties can call UKIP stupid, incompetent, out of touch.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 69,732
    Dromedary said:

    RobD said:

    Dromedary said:

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election
    No where at this stage which is good for you because it is a crazy bet. UKIP has collapsed over past year.
    And I don't rate Lord Professor (ahem) Nuttall. Can't see them doing that well.
    "The Tories don't know what they're doing, Labour are a shambles, and the LibDems are a bunch of Europhiles. It was through our pressure that the British people eventually forced the establishment to hold this referendum, and it's only by voting for us that the British people can ensure that the country achieves something positive rather than going down the tubes!"

    Seems to me that that message could hit home with a lot of people. Admittedly they'd need to get themselves a proper Brexit policy. Pushing for Brexit without A50 is stupid. But there is a limit to the extent that the other three parties can call UKIP stupid, incompetent, out of touch.
    Unless it is full hard Brexit, ie not just leaving the EU and the single market but a points system for EU migrants and no budget contributions to the EU, UKIP will still get around 10-15%+ at the next election
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 57,994
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dromedary said:

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election?

    No where at this stage which is good for you because it is a crazy bet. UKIP has collapsed over past year.

    Betfair has a market, the odds are too low as Mike suggests though.
    Betfair have a market on vote share at the next GE? All I could find were markets on the date and seat totals.
    Most seats is a close enough proxy for plurality. I think....
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 7,655
    Dromedary said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    mwadams said:

    Do you think Trump is actually "worried" about any revelations in the sense of "troubles his conscience"? He will deny them, lie and carry on as if they weren't happing. His supporters will continue to support him, because they don't believe the media anyway. And what is anyone going to do about that?

    If he proves to be an electoral liability for the GOP he will be impeached - either by them or by the Democrats because they have won the mid-terms.
    I don't think pre-presidential watersports with consenting adults is impeachable. Clinton was impeached for the cover-up not the act (the charge was perjury while in office). Even if there were underage children and cocaine involved I think Trump can ride it out at least until he does something so much worse that we all forget about it anyway.
    Falsing denying an action on oath when in office would be perjury, even if the action was lawful and regardless of when it happened. Accepting an emolument from a foreign state without congressional consent is also grounds for impeachment. Trump's representative is arguing that payments received for foreign hotel rooms aren't "emoluments". Watch this space.

    Trump is the most massive security risk. And he's flying by the seat of his pants.
    Hold your horses; I do know what perjury is and he hasn't committed it yet, has he? Nor accepted an emolument while in office in that he isn't in office yet, payment for services is arguably not a freebie therefore not an emolument, and there is probably a thick layer of corporate bodies between trump and the legal entity that gets paid for hotel rooms in Trump tower. I haven't seen a weaker claim since Salmond was due for attainder or something for buying tartan trews and going to a golf match. It's like complaining that Hitler wore brown shoes with a grey suit.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 32,036
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    F*ck it, lets just go the whole hog and be part of the new Russia-USA alliance, noone is going to f*ck with that.

    Where's your defence NOW Germany :)

    Our flags are the same colors.. match made in heaven, clearly :p
    A RED, WHITE and BLUE Brexit.

    You know much as I voted and think we'd have been better off remaining, I'm not certain my heart is entirely in it at this moment in time.

    Trump's economic driving plan that should ramp a bit of inflation and interest rates combined with his utterly delicious psephological result, along with Putin's masterful diplomacy is making the blood flow a bit.

    When you look at what what Putin has achieved diplomatically:

    Retaken Crimea, THE crucial Black Sea tactical point
    Established decent relations with Turkey
    & Syria
    And an incoming USA president

    That is far more than anyone else has achieved from an objective standpoint in the last few years.
    I suspect Putin’s best moments are yet to come.

    When the boundary between Russian and the Ukraine is fixed, it will be a lot further West than the Donbass.
    In this context I do think it's interesting that Lukashenko has suddenly signed a decree allowing visa free travel to Belarus from a huge list of countries.

    The Baltic states are a distraction really.
    I had thought Belarus was not much more than a Russian vassal/client state these days?
    But still a separate country and within the confines of diplomacy within the CIS has played a role.

    In my view Russia, Ukraine and Belarus would all have been better off staying together after the fall of the USSR, and would have led to a more functional and pluralistic political regime in Moscow.
  • isamisam Posts: 30,800

    Dromedary said:

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election?

    No where at this stage which is good for you because it is a crazy bet. UKIP has collapsed over past year.

    I always said Nige was irreplaceable, good to see you've come round Mike!

    Evans Shmevans
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 10,349
    @FrancisUrquhart

    Amazingly fast diagnosis of mental health issues by Spanish plod.
  • isam said:

    Dromedary said:

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election?

    No where at this stage which is good for you because it is a crazy bet. UKIP has collapsed over past year.

    I always said Nige was irreplaceable, good to see you've come round Mike!

    Evans Shmevans
    On the scale of 1 to 0 how many fewer MPs will UKIP get at a General Election without Nige than they managed to.get with him?
  • isamisam Posts: 30,800
    edited January 2017

    isam said:

    Dromedary said:

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election?

    No where at this stage which is good for you because it is a crazy bet. UKIP has collapsed over past year.

    I always said Nige was irreplaceable, good to see you've come round Mike!

    Evans Shmevans
    On the scale of 1 to 0 how many fewer MPs will UKIP get at a General Election without Nige than they managed to.get with him?
    Nigel "The Most successful politician of the last 50 years" Farage?

    Don't know or care
  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,488
    dr_spyn said:

    @FrancisUrquhart

    Amazingly fast diagnosis of mental health issues by Spanish plod.

    Maybe we should bring them in to solve the current crisis in the NHS?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 10,349
    The Polytechnic of Oxford seems to have expanded.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38587765
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 32,036
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Dromedary said:

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election?

    No where at this stage which is good for you because it is a crazy bet. UKIP has collapsed over past year.

    I always said Nige was irreplaceable, good to see you've come round Mike!

    Evans Shmevans
    On the scale of 1 to 0 how many fewer MPs will UKIP get at a General Election without Nige than they managed to.get with him?
    Nigel "The Most successful politician of the last 50 years" Farage?

    Don't know or care
    I think isam said the last 100 years, which is surely a great insult to his idol Enoch Powell.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 24,348

    But still a separate country and within the confines of diplomacy within the CIS has played a role.

    In my view Russia, Ukraine and Belarus would all have been better off staying together after the fall of the USSR, and would have led to a more functional and pluralistic political regime in Moscow.

    Heck, why stop there? I'm sure it would have been better if they'd kept all the ex-Soviet states. And why not throw in West Germany and France as well? After all, self-determination is only a thing for us Brits, isn't it? No-one else deserves it.

    What makes you think that Belarus (that well-known bastion of democracy and freedom) and Ukraine (which has suffered mightily from Russia in the past) staying together with Russia would have led to a more functional regime in Russia?
  • isamisam Posts: 30,800

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Dromedary said:

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election?

    No where at this stage which is good for you because it is a crazy bet. UKIP has collapsed over past year.

    I always said Nige was irreplaceable, good to see you've come round Mike!

    Evans Shmevans
    On the scale of 1 to 0 how many fewer MPs will UKIP get at a General Election without Nige than they managed to.get with him?
    Nigel "The Most successful politician of the last 50 years" Farage?

    Don't know or care
    I think isam said the last 100 years, which is surely a great insult to his idol Enoch Powell.
    I said 50 years didnt I? You just quoted me!

    Enoch is the greatest but wasn't the most successful, unless being proved right counts. Why do you say "idol" as if its a bad thing?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited January 2017
    matt said:

    dr_spyn said:

    From t'Guardian Jan 11th



    1997.

    Another winter healthcare 'crisis'.
    Faintly amused to note that the consultant who resigned continues to work for the NHS, just for a different but adjacent trust.

    Edit: and Glenfield should have been merged but staggers on. Politics means that rational decisions aren't taken.
    Glenfield is in Leicester is an excellent cardiac unit, and there is no proposal to close it (the childrens heart unit is under threat, but that is completely different to the adult cardic unit).

    The absurdity in 1997 being referred to was that it was then common to stop non urgent surgery (with obvious effects on increasing waiting lists!) at some point in Q4 of the financial year, at the request of the commissioners. This is history now, and was absurd then, as expensive theatre teams and equipment would be idle until the new financial year started in April.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 25,247
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dromedary said:

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election?

    No where at this stage which is good for you because it is a crazy bet. UKIP has collapsed over past year.

    Betfair has a market, the odds are too low as Mike suggests though.
    Betfair have a market on vote share at the next GE? All I could find were markets on the date and seat totals.
    Most seats is a close enough proxy for plurality. I think....
    Possibly not with UKIP though, which is where I assumed Mr @Dromedary was coming from.

    Imagine a scenario of a Brexit mess up by the govt forcing an election, where the govt were perceived to be trying to get out of leaving the EU. Take the current polling, give 15 points from the Tories to UKIP and there's a 3 way tie on 26% ish. UKIP might only get a couple of dozen seats, while the Tories end up with 300.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 32,036
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Dromedary said:

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election?

    No where at this stage which is good for you because it is a crazy bet. UKIP has collapsed over past year.

    I always said Nige was irreplaceable, good to see you've come round Mike!

    Evans Shmevans
    On the scale of 1 to 0 how many fewer MPs will UKIP get at a General Election without Nige than they managed to.get with him?
    Nigel "The Most successful politician of the last 50 years" Farage?

    Don't know or care
    I think isam said the last 100 years, which is surely a great insult to his idol Enoch Powell.
    I said 50 years didnt I? You just quoted me!

    Enoch is the greatest but wasn't the most successful, unless being proved right counts. Why do you say "idol" as if its a bad thing?
    Sorry, I was posting from my phone and thought I was replying to someone quoting you. I think you've previously said 100 years?
  • isamisam Posts: 30,800

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Dromedary said:

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election?

    No where at this stage which is good for you because it is a crazy bet. UKIP has collapsed over past year.

    I always said Nige was irreplaceable, good to see you've come round Mike!

    Evans Shmevans
    On the scale of 1 to 0 how many fewer MPs will UKIP get at a General Election without Nige than they managed to.get with him?
    Nigel "The Most successful politician of the last 50 years" Farage?

    Don't know or care
    I think isam said the last 100 years, which is surely a great insult to his idol Enoch Powell.
    I said 50 years didnt I? You just quoted me!

    Enoch is the greatest but wasn't the most successful, unless being proved right counts. Why do you say "idol" as if its a bad thing?
    Sorry, I was posting from my phone and thought I was replying to someone quoting you. I think you've previously said 100 years?
    No problem.

    I may have said 100 years previously.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 12,698
    edited January 2017
    Jesus Christ! I can't see trump lasting. Too many skeletons and too many news organisations digging for dirt and there will be plenty. He can shout the press down now but it'll be much harder in a couple of weeks when he's standing next to the world's leaders
  • RobDRobD Posts: 44,488
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Dromedary said:

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election?

    No where at this stage which is good for you because it is a crazy bet. UKIP has collapsed over past year.

    I always said Nige was irreplaceable, good to see you've come round Mike!

    Evans Shmevans
    On the scale of 1 to 0 how many fewer MPs will UKIP get at a General Election without Nige than they managed to.get with him?
    Nigel "The Most successful politician of the last 50 years" Farage?

    Don't know or care
    I think isam said the last 100 years, which is surely a great insult to his idol Enoch Powell.
    I said 50 years didnt I? You just quoted me!

    Enoch is the greatest but wasn't the most successful, unless being proved right counts. Why do you say "idol" as if its a bad thing?
    Sorry, I was posting from my phone and thought I was replying to someone quoting you. I think you've previously said 100 years?
    No problem.

    I may have said 100 years previously.
    Be glad you never said 1000 years, you'd have never lived it down :D
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 2,528

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    F*ck it, lets just go the whole hog and be part of the new Russia-USA alliance, noone is going to f*ck with that.

    Where's your defence NOW Germany :)

    Our flags are the same colors.. match made in heaven, clearly :p
    A RED, WHITE and BLUE Brexit.

    You know much as I voted and think we'd have been better off remaining, I'm not certain my heart is entirely in it at this moment in time.

    Trump's economic driving plan that should ramp a bit of inflation and interest rates combined with his utterly delicious psephological result, along with Putin's masterful diplomacy is making the blood flow a bit.

    When you look at what what Putin has achieved diplomatically:

    Retaken Crimea, THE crucial Black Sea tactical point
    Established decent relations with Turkey
    & Syria
    And an incoming USA president

    That is far more than anyone else has achieved from an objective standpoint in the last few years.
    I suspect Putin’s best moments are yet to come.

    When the boundary between Russian and the Ukraine is fixed, it will be a lot further West than the Donbass.
    In this context I do think it's interesting that Lukashenko has suddenly signed a decree allowing visa free travel to Belarus from a huge list of countries.

    The Baltic states are a distraction really.
    I had thought Belarus was not much more than a Russian vassal/client state these days?
    But still a separate country and within the confines of diplomacy within the CIS has played a role.

    In my view Russia, Ukraine and Belarus would all have been better off staying together after the fall of the USSR, and would have led to a more functional and pluralistic political regime in Moscow.
    Interestingly though, Lukashenko has been begging for Belarus to be readmitted to the rodina for years, and Putin hasn't bitten. The most Lukashenko got is the moribund "Union State", which pace Voltaire, is neither.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 20,894
    Roger said:

    Jesus Christ! I can't see trump lasting. Too many skeletons and too many news organisations digging for dirt and there will be plenty. He can shout the press down now but it'll be much harder in a couple of weeks when he's standing next to the world's leaders

    yadda

    youve just become old and stale Roger

    think of Trump as living art and youre part of the set

    now fill up your bladder and head for the dockside
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 32,036
    edited January 2017

    But still a separate country and within the confines of diplomacy within the CIS has played a role.

    In my view Russia, Ukraine and Belarus would all have been better off staying together after the fall of the USSR, and would have led to a more functional and pluralistic political regime in Moscow.

    Heck, why stop there? I'm sure it would have been better if they'd kept all the ex-Soviet states. And why not throw in West Germany and France as well? After all, self-determination is only a thing for us Brits, isn't it? No-one else deserves it.

    What makes you think that Belarus (that well-known bastion of democracy and freedom) and Ukraine (which has suffered mightily from Russia in the past) staying together with Russia would have led to a more functional regime in Russia?
    As you may be aware I don't believe in Brexit either.

    Putting that to one side, it would have been better because Ukrainian politics post independence has failed on its own terms. They tried to define a national identity by being 'not Russia' and instead got an oligarch dominated cleptocracy, but what they did have, relatively speaking was the development of an open society where people placed some value in democracy. Had some of the more talented Ukrainian leaders instead been active directly in the Moscow political scene, you would have had much more chance of harnessing the sense of purpose that you see reflected in the rise of Putin but with a pluralistic political culture.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Dromedary said:

    John_M said:

    I'll reiterate my view that we're being incredibly parochial on the Single Market issue. It's a club that requires any member to sign up to all the rules. We might very well want to stay in the Single Market, to which the EU27 response will be 'Fuck right off'.

    Which is precisely why were are heading for an inevitable political crisis.
    Where can we bet on UKIP winning a plurality of votes at the next general election?

    No where at this stage which is good for you because it is a crazy bet. UKIP has collapsed over past year.

    Both PP and Bet 365 have odds for UKIP most seats, but nowhere near long enough to be wortb taking.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 32,036
    rpjs said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    F*ck it, lets just go the whole hog and be part of the new Russia-USA alliance, noone is going to f*ck with that.

    Where's your defence NOW Germany :)

    Our flags are the same colors.. match made in heaven, clearly :p
    A RED, WHITE and BLUE Brexit.

    You know much as I voted and think we'd have been better off remaining, I'm not certain my heart is entirely in it at this moment in time.

    Trump's economic driving plan that should ramp a bit of inflation and interest rates combined with his utterly delicious psephological result, along with Putin's masterful diplomacy is making the blood flow a bit.

    When you look at what what Putin has achieved diplomatically:

    Retaken Crimea, THE crucial Black Sea tactical point
    Established decent relations with Turkey
    & Syria
    And an incoming USA president

    That is far more than anyone else has achieved from an objective standpoint in the last few years.
    I suspect Putin’s best moments are yet to come.

    When the boundary between Russian and the Ukraine is fixed, it will be a lot further West than the Donbass.
    In this context I do think it's interesting that Lukashenko has suddenly signed a decree allowing visa free travel to Belarus from a huge list of countries.

    The Baltic states are a distraction really.
    I had thought Belarus was not much more than a Russian vassal/client state these days?
    But still a separate country and within the confines of diplomacy within the CIS has played a role.

    In my view Russia, Ukraine and Belarus would all have been better off staying together after the fall of the USSR, and would have led to a more functional and pluralistic political regime in Moscow.
    Interestingly though, Lukashenko has been begging for Belarus to be readmitted to the rodina for years, and Putin hasn't bitten. The most Lukashenko got is the moribund "Union State", which pace Voltaire, is neither.
    The problem is that the terms Lukashenko wants to be admitted on (effectively a union of equals) are absurd.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 13,039
    isam said:
    They've been on the slide recently. The trains have been going away for servicing and coming back with problems.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited January 2017
    Roger said:

    Jesus Christ! I can't see trump lasting. Too many skeletons and too many news organisations digging for dirt and there will be plenty. He can shout the press down now but it'll be much harder in a couple of weeks when he's standing next to the world's leaders

    It will be popcorn time in 10 days, though to enjoy it fully one needs the popcorn machine to be in a lead lined fallout shelter.
  • isamisam Posts: 30,800
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 14,029

    Roger said:

    Jesus Christ! I can't see trump lasting. Too many skeletons and too many news organisations digging for dirt and there will be plenty. He can shout the press down now but it'll be much harder in a couple of weeks when he's standing next to the world's leaders

    yadda

    youve just become old and stale Roger

    think of Trump as living art and youre part of the set

    now fill up your bladder and head for the dockside
    Bullshit. Carry on Roger!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 10,756
    I'm not fully 'across' this story, as irritating newsreaders say - so is someone saying that Trump is a bedwetter?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 12,698
    edited January 2017

    Roger said:

    Jesus Christ! I can't see trump lasting. Too many skeletons and too many news organisations digging for dirt and there will be plenty. He can shout the press down now but it'll be much harder in a couple of weeks when he's standing next to the world's leaders

    yadda

    youve just become old and stale Roger

    think of Trump as living art and youre part of the set

    now fill up your bladder and head for the dockside
    There's a subtle difference between being louche and entertaining like Berlusconi and being seedy like Trump. I'd be surprised if many are still being entertained by the American sleazball in a couple of months time
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 20,894
    Looks like british source has been named in WSJ
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    Sandpit said:

    Has trump played a blinder by calling CNN fake news? One thing we know, the media love to talk about the media. I switch on bbc and they are spending minutes talking about CNN defending themselves and saying they are different from buzzfeed.

    There's no difference between them, they've both spent the whole day ramping a very dubious and apparently made up story, just because it's negative about the president-elect.
    @Sandpit - how do you know that the story was "apparently made up"?

  • tysontyson Posts: 5,553
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Jesus Christ! I can't see trump lasting. Too many skeletons and too many news organisations digging for dirt and there will be plenty. He can shout the press down now but it'll be much harder in a couple of weeks when he's standing next to the world's leaders

    yadda

    youve just become old and stale Roger

    think of Trump as living art and youre part of the set

    now fill up your bladder and head for the dockside
    There's a subtle difference between being louche and entertaining like Berlusconi and being seedy like Trump. I'd be surprised if many are still being entertained by the American sleazball in a couple of months time
    Roger....Berlusconi is a sleazy, seedy, morally corrupted. He's not as aggressive, as much a bully, and vile as Trump...but he is a disgusting human being all the same.

    Trump is completely repellant. At least Berlusconi probably enjoys good food and wine...Trump probably shoves steaks and fizzy drinks into that chasm of a gob
  • Alanbrooke

    The 'british source' isn't a GCHQ employee. He works for a commercial company, Orbis Intelligence. Obviously, a commercial company doesn't remain in business by letting their staff pursue private, unbilled, activity. They make their profits by acting on behalf of their customers. So, the important question is "Who is on the Orbis customer list, and who paid for this work?" If it happens to include the Democratic Party, George Soros or the Washington Post, the most probable conclusion would be that a dirty tricks operation was outsourced to the UK.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,005
    Roger said:

    Jesus Christ! I can't see trump lasting. Too many skeletons and too many news organisations digging for dirt and there will be plenty. He can shout the press down now but it'll be much harder in a couple of weeks when he's standing next to the world's leaders

    Keep the faith Roger there might be a better film to be made than Thirteen days.October 1962 the world stood on the brink.The Donald can do business quicker than nearly a fortnight.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 20,894
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Jesus Christ! I can't see trump lasting. Too many skeletons and too many news organisations digging for dirt and there will be plenty. He can shout the press down now but it'll be much harder in a couple of weeks when he's standing next to the world's leaders

    yadda

    youve just become old and stale Roger

    think of Trump as living art and youre part of the set

    now fill up your bladder and head for the dockside
    There's a subtle difference between being louche and entertaining like Berlusconi and being seedy like Trump. I'd be surprised if many are still being entertained by the American sleazball in a couple of months time
    I suspect the difference is not that subtle :-)

    Anyway Jonathan has named the next Oscar winner "Carry on Roger". I suggest a cast as follows

    Roger - Kenneth Williams
    TSE - Charles Hawtrey
    Southam Observer - Sid James
    SeanT - Barbara Windsor
    Alistair Meeks - Bernard Breslaw
    malcolmg - Jacob Rees Mogg

    best film nailed on
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 2,528
    tyson said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Jesus Christ! I can't see trump lasting. Too many skeletons and too many news organisations digging for dirt and there will be plenty. He can shout the press down now but it'll be much harder in a couple of weeks when he's standing next to the world's leaders

    yadda

    youve just become old and stale Roger

    think of Trump as living art and youre part of the set

    now fill up your bladder and head for the dockside
    There's a subtle difference between being louche and entertaining like Berlusconi and being seedy like Trump. I'd be surprised if many are still being entertained by the American sleazball in a couple of months time
    Roger....Berlusconi is a sleazy, seedy, morally corrupted. He's not as aggressive, as much a bully, and vile as Trump...but he is a disgusting human being all the same.

    Trump is completely repellant. At least Berlusconi probably enjoys good food and wine...Trump probably shoves steaks and fizzy drinks into that chasm of a gob
    I hear Trump likes his steaks well done. *shudder*
  • RogerRoger Posts: 12,698

    I'm not fully 'across' this story, as irritating newsreaders say - so is someone saying that Trump is a bedwetter?

    If you missed this morning's thread you missed some rare humour. My favourites by way of mood board were 'water-gate' 'Wiki-leaks' and 'Drain the swamp'
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited January 2017

    Looks like british source has been named in WSJ

    Yes, it does sounds as if our own private dicks are on the case.

    www.wsj.com/amp/articles/christopher-steele-ex-british-intelligence-officer-said-to-have-prepared-dossier-on-trump-1484162553&ved=0ahUKEwjPuvzd-7rRAhXJIsAKHXRxCpUQqUMIJzAA&usg=AFQjCNF9iRWl9LZZf3qESvPP4SN4TtPZFg&sig2=UFpksEXTvwCItJmEJQPBwg
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 27,072

    Alanbrooke

    The 'british source' isn't a GCHQ employee. He works for a commercial company, Orbis Intelligence. Obviously, a commercial company doesn't remain in business by letting their staff pursue private, unbilled, activity. They make their profits by acting on behalf of their customers. So, the important question is "Who is on the Orbis customer list, and who paid for this work?" If it happens to include the Democratic Party, George Soros or the Washington Post, the most probable conclusion would be that a dirty tricks operation was outsourced to the UK.

    I am on the Orbis customer list :smiley:

    Their data on private companies is poor but the best there is...
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    isam said:
    Official Italian government trains. How fortunate we are that privatisation freed BR from the dead hand of the state.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    I think Obama is going to turn into America's greatest president ever.

    That fuzzy warm feeling people had for Bill Clinton during George dubya's disastrous second term - it will be that feeling multiplied.

    His legacy will be ensured by his successor.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 2,958
    Pong said:

    I think Obama is going to turn into America's greatest president ever.

    That fuzzy warm feeling people had for Bill Clinton during George dubya's disastrous second term - it will be that feeling multiplied.

    His legacy will be ensured by his successor.

    What's an Obama?
  • Re who paid for the info.

    I believe the story went as originally for GOP, then DNC.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 42,504
    edited January 2017
    Charles said:

    Alanbrooke

    The 'british source' isn't a GCHQ employee. He works for a commercial company, Orbis Intelligence. Obviously, a commercial company doesn't remain in business by letting their staff pursue private, unbilled, activity. They make their profits by acting on behalf of their customers. So, the important question is "Who is on the Orbis customer list, and who paid for this work?" If it happens to include the Democratic Party, George Soros or the Washington Post, the most probable conclusion would be that a dirty tricks operation was outsourced to the UK.

    I am on the Orbis customer list :smiley:

    Their data on private companies is poor but the best there is...
    Damning with faint praise...the typos and incorrect info about Russian gated community was very sloppy.
  • RobD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    @FrancisUrquhart

    Amazingly fast diagnosis of mental health issues by Spanish plod.

    Maybe we should bring them in to solve the current crisis in the NHS?

    Is this the incident in Ourense?

    Posteriormente, según ha relatado la empresa, el individuo, que identificaron como de nacionalidad española, se dirigió con un plátano y un cigarrillo en la mano a la línea de cajas, donde se tiró al suelo para que lo detuviesen.
    El arrestado, de 35 años, residente en un edificio colindante al supermercado, sufría problemas psicológicos, añadieron las fuentes, y fue conducido a dependencias policiales y de momento se niega a hablar y no muestra actitud de arrepentimiento alguna.
    Algunos testigos indicaron que había entrado diciendo "Alá es grande", un extremo que tratan de comprobar ahora los investigadores de la Policía Nacional.

    Rough translation:

    ... the individual, who has been identified as a Spanish national, proceeded in the direction of the checkouts holding a banana and a cigarette where he threw himself to the ground in order to be detained.
    The arrested person, 35, lives next door to the supermarket and suffers from mental health issues, according to sources . He has been taken to police premises where he is refusing to talk and shows no sign of regretting his actions.
    Some witnesses stated that he had entered the premises shouting "God is Great", and police investigators are now looking into this.

    http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/2931315/0/hombre-irrumpe-con-disparos-supermercado-ourense-incidente-que-se-salda-con-su-detencion-sin-heridos/

    He may be the world's most ineffective Islamic terrorist, or he may be slightly mad.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 12,698
    edited January 2017
    tyson said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Jesus Christ! I can't see trump lasting. Too many skeletons and too many news organisations digging for dirt and there will be plenty. He can shout the press down now but it'll be much harder in a couple of weeks when he's standing next to the world's leaders

    yadda

    youve just become old and stale Roger

    think of Trump as living art and youre part of the set

    now fill up your bladder and head for the dockside
    There's a subtle difference between being louche and entertaining like Berlusconi and being seedy like Trump. I'd be surprised if many are still being entertained by the American sleazball in a couple of months time
    Roger....Berlusconi is a sleazy, seedy, morally corrupted. He's not as aggressive, as much a bully, and vile as Trump...but he is a disgusting human being all the same.

    Trump is completely repellant. At least Berlusconi probably enjoys good food and wine...Trump probably shoves steaks and fizzy drinks into that chasm of a gob
    I know but it's relative and Berlusconi has an engaging smile whereas Trump's is like a crocodile. Happy New Year by the way and let's hope at least one of the good guys gets in this year. I was told tonight that Marine Le Pen wouldn't make the last two which would be a small victory
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 25,247
    edited January 2017
    perdix said:

    Sandpit said:

    Has trump played a blinder by calling CNN fake news? One thing we know, the media love to talk about the media. I switch on bbc and they are spending minutes talking about CNN defending themselves and saying they are different from buzzfeed.

    There's no difference between them, they've both spent the whole day ramping a very dubious and apparently made up story, just because it's negative about the president-elect.
    @Sandpit - how do you know that the story was "apparently made up"?

    There were a couple of links posted earlier suggesting that the story about the hookers in the Moscow hotel room was written as 'fan fiction' several months ago. It's clearly not a well sourced story because most news outlets are qualifying it heavily in their own coverage.
    There may be elements of truth to some of it, but it's far from certain what's truth and what's lies at the moment.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 57,994
    Roger said:

    Jesus Christ! I can't see trump lasting. Too many skeletons and too many news organisations digging for dirt and there will be plenty. He can shout the press down now but it'll be much harder in a couple of weeks when he's standing next to the world's leaders

    Like this titan ?

  • Roger said:

    I'm not fully 'across' this story, as irritating newsreaders say - so is someone saying that Trump is a bedwetter?

    If you missed this morning's thread you missed some rare humour. My favourites by way of mood board were 'water-gate' 'Wiki-leaks' and 'Drain the swamp'
    Or 'drain the sump' as one of my older, uroligically-challenged pals calls it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 2,975
    isam said:
    Before long, remainers will be the Japanese soldiers stranded in the Okinawan jungle in 1955 fighting a war that finished a decade earlier.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,005
    tyson said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Jesus Christ! I can't see trump lasting. Too many skeletons and too many news organisations digging for dirt and there will be plenty. He can shout the press down now but it'll be much harder in a couple of weeks when he's standing next to the world's leaders

    yadda

    youve just become old and stale Roger

    think of Trump as living art and youre part of the set

    now fill up your bladder and head for the dockside
    There's a subtle difference between being louche and entertaining like Berlusconi and being seedy like Trump. I'd be surprised if many are still being entertained by the American sleazball in a couple of months time
    Roger....Berlusconi is a sleazy, seedy, morally corrupted. He's not as aggressive, as much a bully, and vile as Trump...but he is a disgusting human being all the same.

    Trump is completely repellant. At least Berlusconi probably enjoys good food and wine...Trump probably shoves steaks and fizzy drinks into that chasm of a gob
    So what first attracted you to the billionaire Donald Trump,?
  • RobD said:

    dr_spyn said:

    @FrancisUrquhart

    Amazingly fast diagnosis of mental health issues by Spanish plod.

    Maybe we should bring them in to solve the current crisis in the NHS?

    Is this the incident in Ourense?

    Posteriormente, según ha relatado la empresa, el individuo, que identificaron como de nacionalidad española, se dirigió con un plátano y un cigarrillo en la mano a la línea de cajas, donde se tiró al suelo para que lo detuviesen.
    El arrestado, de 35 años, residente en un edificio colindante al supermercado, sufría problemas psicológicos, añadieron las fuentes, y fue conducido a dependencias policiales y de momento se niega a hablar y no muestra actitud de arrepentimiento alguna.
    Algunos testigos indicaron que había entrado diciendo "Alá es grande", un extremo que tratan de comprobar ahora los investigadores de la Policía Nacional.

    Rough translation:

    ... the individual, who has been identified as a Spanish national, proceeded in the direction of the checkouts holding a banana and a cigarette where he threw himself to the ground in order to be detained.
    The arrested person, 35, lives next door to the supermarket and suffers from mental health issues, according to sources . He has been taken to police premises where he is refusing to talk and shows no sign of regretting his actions.
    Some witnesses stated that he had entered the premises shouting "God is Great", and police investigators are now looking into this.

    http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/2931315/0/hombre-irrumpe-con-disparos-supermercado-ourense-incidente-que-se-salda-con-su-detencion-sin-heridos/

    He may be the world's most ineffective Islamic terrorist, or he may be slightly mad.
    Barely worth a quiver on the PB Islamosteria-ometer.
  • Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Jesus Christ! I can't see trump lasting. Too many skeletons and too many news organisations digging for dirt and there will be plenty. He can shout the press down now but it'll be much harder in a couple of weeks when he's standing next to the world's leaders

    yadda

    youve just become old and stale Roger

    think of Trump as living art and youre part of the set

    now fill up your bladder and head for the dockside
    There's a subtle difference between being louche and entertaining like Berlusconi and being seedy like Trump. I'd be surprised if many are still being entertained by the American sleazball in a couple of months time
    I suspect the difference is not that subtle :-)

    Anyway Jonathan has named the next Oscar winner "Carry on Roger". I suggest a cast as follows

    Roger - Kenneth Williams
    TSE - Charles Hawtrey
    Southam Observer - Sid James
    SeanT - Barbara Windsor
    Alistair Meeks - Bernard Breslaw
    malcolmg - Jacob Rees Mogg

    best film nailed on

    I can do Sid James's laugh. And he was a Spurs fan.

This discussion has been closed.