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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » George Osborne to become editor of the Evening Standard but he

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  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Another good day's tipping from freetochoose:

    2.10 Vosne Romanee - UNPLACED
    3.30 Native River - PLACED
    4.10 Wonderful Charm - PLACED
    5.30 Dandridge - PLACED

    Three out of four placed horses ain't bad and after his noteworthy success yesterday, the above picks were certainly profitable for those, like me, who backed them place only on the Betfair exchange.

    Thanks and well done!

    Maybe we have another star punter in the making .... let's hope so.

    Seconded nothing better than long-priced tips which keep the fun going all day and give you a return to boot.
  • HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
    People can be forgiven for not being crystal clear about what being members of vs having access to the single market actually means.

    They have had enough "they'll still sell us BMWs" to be understandably confused.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    Off-topic:

    Trump's proposal for NASA's budget seems reasonable: a sub-1% decrease. However there is one part that seems really odd. The DSCOVR satellite was launched in 2015, and observes Earth and the surrounding space from about a million miles away. The satellite's doing good work, yet it's budget is being cut so it will have to be mothballed.

    The money it was costing NASA to operate? 1.2 million per year. That's million, not billion.

    I'll also miss the Asteroid Redirect Mission, but I think I'm about the only person who'll miss that ...

    If you want to know the sort of picture DSCVR can take, then here's one of the far side of the moon in front of the Earth:
    https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/epicearthmoonstill.png

    That's a kool picture. Would it be fair to say that we see the more interesting side of the moon?
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .

    Why? It's abstract to the majority.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    Pong said:

    A whole generation, completely f*cked by the housing market.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39301963

    This is how the conservative party dies.

    From the ONS report:

    ' On average, working people could expect to pay around 7.6 times their annual earnings on purchasing a home in England and Wales in 2016, up from 3.6 times earnings in 1997. '

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/bulletins/housingaffordabilityinenglandandwales/1997to2016

    Osbrown economics.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614

    Freggles said:

    I see Theresa May is considering intervening in the energy market.

    I thought that was destructive Marxism?

    Compare Ed's energy price freeze with May's desire for greater competition.

    Talking about Ed Miliband...

    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/eddie-redmayne-steps-back-time-aardman-role-144300968.html
  • TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
    People can be forgiven for not being crystal clear about what being members of vs having access to the single market actually means.

    They have had enough "they'll still sell us BMWs" to be understandably confused.
    Well BMW will still be selling us Oxford built Minis, I think we can be sure of that!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
    People can be forgiven for not being crystal clear about what being members of vs having access to the single market actually means.

    They have had enough "they'll still sell us BMWs" to be understandably confused.
    Well BMW will still be selling us Oxford built Minis, I think we can be sure of that!
    Minis are so over. Who buys them any more?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    Can we assume that nobody still thinks that the support of Mr 'London through and through' for HS2 wasn't about benefiting London ?

    *You* can assume nothing of the sort. HS2 will benefit more than just London. And Osborne's promotion of infrastructure in the north has been obvious to anyone with eyes.

    However, it will be interesting to see if this changes now.
    As HS2 is being built from London northwards we can certainly assume it will benefit London first.

    And there's more to promotion of infrastructure than endless photostunts in unnecessary hi-vis jackets and helmets.

    Still, fair's fair, there's been more new roads opened in South Yorkshire in the last five years than Labour managed in government.
    "As HS2 is being built from London northwards we can certainly assume it will benefit London first."

    An incoherent comment. It is being built between London and Birmingham at the same time, and that part of the route's being done first as it's the part of the route with the most need. What would you have had them do?

    "And there's more to promotion of infrastructure than endless photostunts in unnecessary hi-vis jackets and helmets."

    Yes, and it's happening. Not only roads as you mention, but on the railways in the north you have electrification schemes, the Ordsall curve and many other improvements including the HS3 investigations. What such projects need are champions, and Osborne certainly championed them. Even if it meant he had to look a high-viz pillock.

    Will the Northern Powerhouse work? Perhaps it will; perhaps it won't. But at least the government are (or at least were) trying to get all the stakeholders involved with coherent plans.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
    People can be forgiven for not being crystal clear about what being members of vs having access to the single market actually means.

    They have had enough "they'll still sell us BMWs" to be understandably confused.
    Well BMW will still be selling us Oxford built Minis, I think we can be sure of that!
    If we're out of the single market and customs union? Not a chance, Cowley and Hams Hall will be closed faster than an i8.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
    People can be forgiven for not being crystal clear about what being members of vs having access to the single market actually means.

    They have had enough "they'll still sell us BMWs" to be understandably confused.
    Well BMW will still be selling us Oxford built Minis, I think we can be sure of that!
    Minis are so over. Who buys them any more?
    Didn't SeanT buy one?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Pong said:

    A whole generation, completely f*cked by the housing market.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39301963

    This is how the conservative party dies.

    From the ONS report:

    ' On average, working people could expect to pay around 7.6 times their annual earnings on purchasing a home in England and Wales in 2016, up from 3.6 times earnings in 1997. '

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/bulletins/housingaffordabilityinenglandandwales/1997to2016

    Osbrown economics.
    Oddly, because I know how you bend over backwards to be scruplulously fair whenever you say anything about Osborne, you somehow omitted to mention:

    Mortgage rates in 1997: Around 8%
    Mortgage rates in 2017: Depending on deal, under 3%
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
    Exactly Remainers going on about how May should have gone for 'soft Brexit' and stayed in the single market with free movement left unchecked have, as this poll makes clear, misread the mood. Ultimately it reinforces my view that when most likely does some form of compromise for a few bilateral agreements ie a job offer requirement and some continued budget contributions to the EU it will be hard-core Leavers rather than hard core Remainers as now who will make the most noise in protest and UKIP will have something to capitalise on
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited March 2017

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
    People can be forgiven for not being crystal clear about what being members of vs having access to the single market actually means.

    They have had enough "they'll still sell us BMWs" to be understandably confused.
    Well BMW will still be selling us Oxford built Minis, I think we can be sure of that!
    Minis are so over. Who buys them any more?
    Didn't SeanT buy one?
    LOL.

    Edit: that's a joke, right?
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    Dixie said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JackW said:

    GIN1138 said:

    As he clearly isn't interested in representing his constituents it's time for the Tatton Parliamentary constituency to de-select Boy Goroge...

    If you de-select all Conservative MP's with second jobs then it's like they'll have fewer MP's than the LibDems ... :smile:
    Limited second jobs = OK (though all jobs and earnings should be declared)

    Full time job editing a London based newspaper hundreds of miles away from his constituency = Not OK.
    https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/842734558751670272
    Nice try but that's clearly a completely different situation to taking on a full time job in the private sector while remaining an MP for a constituency hundreds of miles away from said full time job.
    So you're saying The Treasury was based in Cheshire and not 1 Horse Guards Road, Westminster, London SW1A 2HQ when Osborne was Chancellor?
    No. The chance of a Cabinet job goes with being an MP. Unless we bring the Cabinet in from the private sector (probably not a bad idea?) MP's from the governing party have to fill those positions.

    Osborne taking a full time job in the private sector while remaining MP for Tatton is a completely different scenario...
    The unwritten rule is cabinet members tend to be from safe seats. Marginals require MP to spend time with voters. Ed Miliband and Peter Mandleson probably don't even know where their constituencies are/were!
    Mandleson certainly visited Hartlepool chip shops.

    I believe they offered guacamole especially for him.
    Very good. Likely the only time he went. He is teh anthesis of what those people would have wanted.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Dixie said:

    Dixie said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JackW said:

    GIN1138 said:

    As he clearly isn't interested in representing his constituents it's time for the Tatton Parliamentary constituency to de-select Boy Goroge...

    If you de-select all Conservative MP's with second jobs then it's like they'll have fewer MP's than the LibDems ... :smile:
    Limited second jobs = OK (though all jobs and earnings should be declared)

    Full time job editing a London based newspaper hundreds of miles away from his constituency = Not OK.
    https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/842734558751670272
    Nice try but that's clearly a completely different situation to taking on a full time job in the private sector while remaining an MP for a constituency hundreds of miles away from said full time job.
    So you're saying The Treasury was based in Cheshire and not 1 Horse Guards Road, Westminster, London SW1A 2HQ when Osborne was Chancellor?
    No. The chance of a Cabinet job goes with being an MP. Unless we bring the Cabinet in from the private sector (probably not a bad idea?) MP's from the governing party have to fill those positions.

    Osborne taking a full time job in the private sector while remaining MP for Tatton is a completely different scenario...
    The unwritten rule is cabinet members tend to be from safe seats. Marginals require MP to spend time with voters. Ed Miliband and Peter Mandleson probably don't even know where their constituencies are/were!
    Mandleson certainly visited Hartlepool chip shops.

    I believe they offered guacamole especially for him.
    Very good. Likely the only time he went. He is teh anthesis of what those people would have wanted.
    The fact that Guacgate didn't happen doesn't detract from its appeal as a story. As even Mandleson himself agrees.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    tlg86 said:

    Off-topic:

    Trump's proposal for NASA's budget seems reasonable: a sub-1% decrease. However there is one part that seems really odd. The DSCOVR satellite was launched in 2015, and observes Earth and the surrounding space from about a million miles away. The satellite's doing good work, yet it's budget is being cut so it will have to be mothballed.

    The money it was costing NASA to operate? 1.2 million per year. That's million, not billion.

    I'll also miss the Asteroid Redirect Mission, but I think I'm about the only person who'll miss that ...

    If you want to know the sort of picture DSCVR can take, then here's one of the far side of the moon in front of the Earth:
    https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/epicearthmoonstill.png

    That's a kool picture. Would it be fair to say that we see the more interesting side of the moon?
    It's a fantastic picture. I'm not sure if it captures the more interesting side of the Moon or not; but it caused me to make a second-take at it when I first saw it as it's so unfamiliar.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    Pong said:

    A whole generation, completely f*cked by the housing market.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39301963

    This is how the conservative party dies.

    From the ONS report:

    ' On average, working people could expect to pay around 7.6 times their annual earnings on purchasing a home in England and Wales in 2016, up from 3.6 times earnings in 1997. '

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/bulletins/housingaffordabilityinenglandandwales/1997to2016

    Osbrown economics.
    Oddly, because I know how you bend over backwards to be scruplulously fair whenever you say anything about Osborne, you somehow omitted to mention:

    Mortgage rates in 1997: Around 8%
    Mortgage rates in 2017: Depending on deal, under 3%
    But isn't that part of the problem and why we are where we are?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
    People can be forgiven for not being crystal clear about what being members of vs having access to the single market actually means.

    They have had enough "they'll still sell us BMWs" to be understandably confused.
    Well BMW will still be selling us Oxford built Minis, I think we can be sure of that!
    Minis are so over. Who buys them any more?
    Didn't SeanT buy one?
    LOL.

    Edit: that's a joke, right?
    ISTR he was going on about picking up his new Mini, and how brilliant it was, a couple of years ago. Although my memory may well be faulty.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    tlg86 said:

    Off-topic:

    Trump's proposal for NASA's budget seems reasonable: a sub-1% decrease. However there is one part that seems really odd. The DSCOVR satellite was launched in 2015, and observes Earth and the surrounding space from about a million miles away. The satellite's doing good work, yet it's budget is being cut so it will have to be mothballed.

    The money it was costing NASA to operate? 1.2 million per year. That's million, not billion.

    I'll also miss the Asteroid Redirect Mission, but I think I'm about the only person who'll miss that ...

    If you want to know the sort of picture DSCVR can take, then here's one of the far side of the moon in front of the Earth:
    https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/epicearthmoonstill.png

    That's a kool picture. Would it be fair to say that we see the more interesting side of the moon?
    It's a fantastic picture. I'm not sure if it captures the more interesting side of the Moon or not; but it caused me to make a second-take at it when I first saw it as it's so unfamiliar.
    Sorry, what I meant was, that's showing us the dark side of the moon and it doesn't look to have quite as many features as the side that we look at from the Earth.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2017
    tlg86 said:

    But isn't that part of the problem and why we are where we are?

    Certainly it is. But if you're discussing affordability in relation to average incomes, you have to look at both sides of the issue.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
    Most people would not know what the single market was if you slapped them in the face with it. Have you not seen your average UK citizen on TV or listened to them on radio. There are an awful lot of simple sheeple out there.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
    People can be forgiven for not being crystal clear about what being members of vs having access to the single market actually means.

    They have had enough "they'll still sell us BMWs" to be understandably confused.
    Well BMW will still be selling us Oxford built Minis, I think we can be sure of that!
    Minis are so over. Who buys them any more?
    Didn't SeanT buy one?
    LOL.

    Edit: that's a joke, right?
    ISTR he was going on about picking up his new Mini, and how brilliant it was, a couple of years ago. Although my memory may well be faulty.
    No wonder he is such a Primrose Hill property bull, sounds like he is working part time at Foxtons.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Pong said:

    A whole generation, completely f*cked by the housing market.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39301963

    This is how the conservative party dies.

    From the ONS report:

    ' On average, working people could expect to pay around 7.6 times their annual earnings on purchasing a home in England and Wales in 2016, up from 3.6 times earnings in 1997. '

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/bulletins/housingaffordabilityinenglandandwales/1997to2016

    Osbrown economics.
    Oddly, because I know how you bend over backwards to be scruplulously fair whenever you say anything about Osborne, you somehow omitted to mention:

    Mortgage rates in 1997: Around 8%
    Mortgage rates in 2017: Depending on deal, under 3%
    So you would rather pay 3% interest on a £250k house than 8% on £50k for the same house?


    Well it's a view I suppose
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    nunu said:

    Pong said:

    A whole generation, completely f*cked by the housing market.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39301963

    This is how the conservative party dies.

    I do think this is the reason Labour bucked the trend in London during GE 2015.
    I wonder if anyone has compared changes in housing tenure to electoral changes by constituency.

    Looking at the number of owner occupiers in the London constituencies the Conservatives lost in 2015:

    Brentford
    2001 59%
    2011 50%

    Ealing Acton
    2001 57%
    2011 46%

    Enfield N
    2001 71%
    2011 59%

    Ilford N
    2001 77%
    2011 70%

    I suspect those are larger falls than average.

    Morley by contrast was 76% owner occupied in both 2001 and 2011.

    The data is from UKPR.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Testing Brexitism to destruction is a dirty job, but she did volunteer for it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
    Most people would not know what the single market was if you slapped them in the face with it. Have you not seen your average UK citizen on TV or listened to them on radio. There are an awful lot of simple sheeple out there.
    Malcolm sheeple is on the CiF list, let alone the PB one.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited March 2017

    nunu said:

    Pong said:

    A whole generation, completely f*cked by the housing market.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39301963

    This is how the conservative party dies.

    I do think this is the reason Labour bucked the trend in London during GE 2015.
    I wonder if anyone has compared changes in housing tenure to electoral changes by constituency.

    Looking at the number of owner occupiers in the London constituencies the Conservatives lost in 2015:

    Brentford
    2001 59%
    2011 50%

    Ealing Acton
    2001 57%
    2011 46%

    Enfield N
    2001 71%
    2011 59%

    Ilford N
    2001 77%
    2011 70%

    I suspect those are larger falls than average.

    Morley by contrast was 76% owner occupied in both 2001 and 2011.

    The data is from UKPR.
    I wonder what the figure is for poor quality Buy To Let conversions?

    Remove the London subsidy premium for rent and watch the prices fall. Likewise, a bit of migration reversal.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    I don't really understand the fuss over Osborne (except for his constituents, who might wonder why he didn't go for a Manchester-based job). Surely the time taken up being a full time Chancellor far exceeded the time he will spend being the part-time editor of a free local rag?

    And since it is the London Evening Standard, does that mean there will be something of the night about him?

    Where did I put my coat?
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited March 2017

    Pong said:

    A whole generation, completely f*cked by the housing market.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39301963

    This is how the conservative party dies.

    From the ONS report:

    ' On average, working people could expect to pay around 7.6 times their annual earnings on purchasing a home in England and Wales in 2016, up from 3.6 times earnings in 1997. '

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/bulletins/housingaffordabilityinenglandandwales/1997to2016

    Osbrown economics.
    I blame the Sarah Beeny type shows that dominated TV schedules for a decade and a half.

    "Mr and Mrs Smith bought the house for £100k, spent 2 years putting a bit of plaster on the walls and now it's worth £200k, aren't they clever!?"
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    What job could Osborne go for next? Top Gear host?

    Fenster said:

    This idea that Osborne was deliberately humiliated by May is trite.

    I hold no candle for May but Osborne had to leave the government, certainly in the short term.

    Osborne threw 100% of his weight behind Remain. He was completely loyal to Cameron and sacrificed his career for the Remain cause. He deserves credit for that. He didn't vacillate or hedge his bets, he did all he could to help Remain win.

    That inevitably led to him announcing things that put him at odds with the Tory back-benches (and many natural Tory supporters). The Emergency Budget farrago being a prime example. Osborne knew the emergency budget would never be delivered by him, but threw himself on his sword in a last-gasp bid to save the government. So if Remain was to fall, he knew he'd be going down with it.

    So as the newly installed PM May could never have kept Osborne as Chancellor in a Brexit government, not given all that had gone on in the campaign. Foreign Secretary too - despite being a job Osborne coveted - became impossible under the new circumstances. So it was either a big demotion or the back-benches. And I think Osborne would've chosen the back-benches anyway.

    I think it was inevitable that Osborne had to leave government with Cameron, rather than a straight humiliation. I also think May will reappoint him.

    The second paragraph is probably right but it's a question of how one does it.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    I actually underestimated.

    http://landregistry.data.gov.uk/app/ukhpi/explore

    Average house price in London was £84k in March 1997, £483k now...

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    tlg86 said:

    But isn't that part of the problem and why we are where we are?

    Certainly it is. But if you're discussing affordability in relation to average incomes, you have to look at both sides of the issue.
    I think it would be better if people were having to pay higher rates of interest on smaller loans. What worries me is that two of my friends have been given £70k by the government to buy new build properties. This is interest free for five years, but it's going to come as nasty shock when they have to start paying that back on top of their actual mortgages
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    tlg86 said:

    Pong said:

    A whole generation, completely f*cked by the housing market.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39301963

    This is how the conservative party dies.

    From the ONS report:

    ' On average, working people could expect to pay around 7.6 times their annual earnings on purchasing a home in England and Wales in 2016, up from 3.6 times earnings in 1997. '

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/bulletins/housingaffordabilityinenglandandwales/1997to2016

    Osbrown economics.
    Oddly, because I know how you bend over backwards to be scruplulously fair whenever you say anything about Osborne, you somehow omitted to mention:

    Mortgage rates in 1997: Around 8%
    Mortgage rates in 2017: Depending on deal, under 3%
    But isn't that part of the problem and why we are where we are?
    Freggles said:

    Pong said:

    A whole generation, completely f*cked by the housing market.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39301963

    This is how the conservative party dies.

    From the ONS report:

    ' On average, working people could expect to pay around 7.6 times their annual earnings on purchasing a home in England and Wales in 2016, up from 3.6 times earnings in 1997. '

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/bulletins/housingaffordabilityinenglandandwales/1997to2016

    Osbrown economics.
    Oddly, because I know how you bend over backwards to be scruplulously fair whenever you say anything about Osborne, you somehow omitted to mention:

    Mortgage rates in 1997: Around 8%
    Mortgage rates in 2017: Depending on deal, under 3%
    So you would rather pay 3% interest on a £250k house than 8% on £50k for the same house?

    Well it's a view I suppose
    RN is always 'scrupulously fair' whenever he says anything about the 'near perfect' Osborne.

    Of course a consequence of low interest rates has been Triple-Lock Pensions.

    Bur perhaps RN sees that in a different light to those here of younger years.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Pong said:

    I blame the Sarah Beeny type shows that dominated TV schedules for a decade and a half.

    "Mr and Mrs Smith bought the house for £100k, put a bit of plaster on the walls and now it's worth £200k, aren't they clever!?"

    House prices historically have been a lot more volatile than people think - it has not been the case in recent decades that they have automatically been a good investment.

    http://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/2017/02/21/comment/chris-dillow/housing-risk-Hpk00ii6QyvUCrS3rKVkJL/article.html
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    tlg86 said:

    Off-topic:

    Trump's proposal for NASA's budget seems reasonable: a sub-1% decrease. However there is one part that seems really odd. The DSCOVR satellite was launched in 2015, and observes Earth and the surrounding space from about a million miles away. The satellite's doing good work, yet it's budget is being cut so it will have to be mothballed.

    The money it was costing NASA to operate? 1.2 million per year. That's million, not billion.

    I'll also miss the Asteroid Redirect Mission, but I think I'm about the only person who'll miss that ...

    If you want to know the sort of picture DSCVR can take, then here's one of the far side of the moon in front of the Earth:
    https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/epicearthmoonstill.png

    That's a kool picture. Would it be fair to say that we see the more interesting side of the moon?
    It's a fantastic picture. I'm not sure if it captures the more interesting side of the Moon or not; but it caused me to make a second-take at it when I first saw it as it's so unfamiliar.
    Great picture, must have been taken pretty close to the moon. :+1:
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Testing Brexitism to destruction is a dirty job, but she did volunteer for it.

    Can you imagine the fury on here and among right-wing Atlanticists if that uppity African and his spokesman had accused the UK of spying on him? Fact is, Trump is the most anti-British US president for decades. And there are still people who think he'll give us a great trade deal :-D

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Of course a consequence of low interest rates has been Triple-Lock Pensions.

    Eh?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. (Miss?) Rose, I agree that if an MP can also be a minister there's no reason they can't have a second job. The issue is a serving MP also having a significant role in the media.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
    People can be forgiven for not being crystal clear about what being members of vs having access to the single market actually means.

    They have had enough "they'll still sell us BMWs" to be understandably confused.
    Well BMW will still be selling us Oxford built Minis, I think we can be sure of that!
    Minis are so over. Who buys them any more?
    Didn't SeanT buy one?
    LOL.

    Edit: that's a joke, right?
    ISTR he was going on about picking up his new Mini, and how brilliant it was, a couple of years ago. Although my memory may well be faulty.
    It's not, he got a bit of 'hairdresser's car' ribbing at the time.
    He's probably got a union flag paint job on the roof by now.
  • OUTOUT Posts: 569
    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    A whole generation, completely f*cked by the housing market.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39301963

    This is how the conservative party dies.

    From the ONS report:

    ' On average, working people could expect to pay around 7.6 times their annual earnings on purchasing a home in England and Wales in 2016, up from 3.6 times earnings in 1997. '

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/bulletins/housingaffordabilityinenglandandwales/1997to2016

    Osbrown economics.
    I blame the Sarah Beeny type shows that dominated TV schedules for a decade and a half.

    "Mr and Mrs Smith bought the house for £100k, spent 2 years putting a bit of plaster on the walls and now it's worth £200k, aren't they clever!?"
    Correct. Suddenly everyone was a property developer with a portfolio, despite having no arse in their breeks.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited March 2017
    Freggles said:

    I actually underestimated.

    http://landregistry.data.gov.uk/app/ukhpi/explore

    Average house price in London was £84k in March 1997, £483k now...

    1.5m additional people in London between 2001 and 2015.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    A whole generation, completely f*cked by the housing market.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39301963

    This is how the conservative party dies.

    From the ONS report:

    ' On average, working people could expect to pay around 7.6 times their annual earnings on purchasing a home in England and Wales in 2016, up from 3.6 times earnings in 1997. '

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/bulletins/housingaffordabilityinenglandandwales/1997to2016

    Osbrown economics.
    I blame the Sarah Beeny type shows that dominated TV schedules for a decade and a half.

    "Mr and Mrs Smith bought the house for £100k, put a bit of plaster on the walls and now it's worth £200k, aren't they clever!?"
    I'm sure you're right.

    There did seem to be a change from shows that were about doing up your own house to live in, such as Ground Force, to the buy and sell shows such as Property Ladder.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Mr. (Miss?) Rose, I agree that if an MP can also be a minister there's no reason they can't have a second job. The issue is a serving MP also having a significant role in the media.

    There are columns written by MPs every day of the week in the newspapers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Testing Brexitism to destruction is a dirty job, but she did volunteer for it.

    Can you imagine the fury on here and among right-wing Atlanticists if that uppity African and his spokesman had accused the UK of spying on him? Fact is, Trump is the most anti-British US president for decades. And there are still people who think he'll give us a great trade deal :-D

    I liked Obama but he did remove the Churchill bust which Trump restored and Obama himself said his closest international ally was Merkel not May. The fact is that other than Netanyahu and maybe Abe, May is Trump's most reliable international ally, that is why he saw those leaders first at the White House
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,545
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
    Most people would not know what the single market was if you slapped them in the face with it. Have you not seen your average UK citizen on TV or listened to them on radio. There are an awful lot of simple sheeple out there.
    Most people don't know what a market is, period. If they paused to think that every pound of wages, pension, welfare and public services comes from someone selling something to somebody else, both Brexit and Indyref would be stopped in their tracks.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    edited March 2017
    TOPPING said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
    Most people would not know what the single market was if you slapped them in the face with it. Have you not seen your average UK citizen on TV or listened to them on radio. There are an awful lot of simple sheeple out there.
    Malcolm sheeple is on the CiF list, let alone the PB one.
    Have I said a bad thing

    PS what is the CiF list, I am only a simple turnip farmer
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Of course a consequence of low interest rates has been Triple-Lock Pensions.

    Eh?
    Low interest rates = low bond yields = underperforming pension pots = bribe key voting demographic
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Her tougher stance on immigration though is what the public really want, her relationship with Trump is a side issue for most voters
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
    People can be forgiven for not being crystal clear about what being members of vs having access to the single market actually means.

    They have had enough "they'll still sell us BMWs" to be understandably confused.
    Well BMW will still be selling us Oxford built Minis, I think we can be sure of that!
    Minis are so over. Who buys them any more?
    Didn't SeanT buy one?
    LOL.

    Edit: that's a joke, right?
    ISTR he was going on about picking up his new Mini, and how brilliant it was, a couple of years ago. Although my memory may well be faulty.
    It's not, he got a bit of 'hairdresser's car' ribbing at the time.
    He's probably got a union flag paint job on the roof by now.
    At least he got the JCW
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    Mr. (Miss?) Rose, I agree that if an MP can also be a minister there's no reason they can't have a second job. The issue is a serving MP also having a significant role in the media.

    I think I'd have more sympathy with the last argument if (a) people in the media weren't allowed to become MPs and (b) the media didn't choose to rely so heavily on MPs to fill their schedules for them.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Her tougher stance on immigration though is what the public really want, her relationship with Trump is a side issue for most voters

    For now.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Testing Brexitism to destruction is a dirty job, but she did volunteer for it.

    Can you imagine the fury on here and among right-wing Atlanticists if that uppity African and his spokesman had accused the UK of spying on him? Fact is, Trump is the most anti-British US president for decades. And there are still people who think he'll give us a great trade deal :-D

    I liked Obama but he did remove the Churchill bust which Trump restored and Obama himself said his closest international ally was Merkel not May. The fact is that other than Netanyahu and maybe Abe, May is Trump's most reliable international ally, that is why he saw those leaders first at the White House

    He has accused us of spying on him!!

  • What must the people of Tattoo think about Osborne becoming a powerful voice for London?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
    People can be forgiven for not being crystal clear about what being members of vs having access to the single market actually means.

    They have had enough "they'll still sell us BMWs" to be understandably confused.
    Well BMW will still be selling us Oxford built Minis, I think we can be sure of that!
    Minis are so over. Who buys them any more?
    Didn't SeanT buy one?
    LOL.

    Edit: that's a joke, right?
    ISTR he was going on about picking up his new Mini, and how brilliant it was, a couple of years ago. Although my memory may well be faulty.
    It's not, he got a bit of 'hairdresser's car' ribbing at the time.
    He's probably got a union flag paint job on the roof by now.
    At least he got the JCW
    Yeah, I'm sure it's actually a pretty nice car.
    Couldn't resist a wee bit joshing tho.
  • TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    edited March 2017

    What must the people of Tatton think about Osborne becoming a powerful voice for London?

    Edited to account for stupid tablet autocomplete!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2017
    Alistair said:

    Of course a consequence of low interest rates has been Triple-Lock Pensions.

    Eh?
    Low interest rates = low bond yields = underperforming pension pots = bribe key voting demographic
    Pension pots have been doing quite well, actually, so that doesn't work. Furthermore the triple lock benefits only very poor pensioners to any significant degree - those who are wholly or mainly dependent on state pensions.

    Having said that, it's served its purpose now, and should not be renewed in the next parliament, IMO. Currently I believe only the Labour Party is committed to keeping it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Testing Brexitism to destruction is a dirty job, but she did volunteer for it.

    Can you imagine the fury on here and among right-wing Atlanticists if that uppity African and his spokesman had accused the UK of spying on him? Fact is, Trump is the most anti-British US president for decades. And there are still people who think he'll give us a great trade deal :-D

    I liked Obama but he did remove the Churchill bust which Trump restored and Obama himself said his closest international ally was Merkel not May. The fact is that other than Netanyahu and maybe Abe, May is Trump's most reliable international ally, that is why he saw those leaders first at the White House

    He has accused us of spying on him!!

    His spokesman said GCHQ did, Trump himself has not commented either way but the White House has said it will make no further comment on the issue
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    not with that numpty in power....no.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Her tougher stance on immigration though is what the public really want, her relationship with Trump is a side issue for most voters

    For now.

    Over 60% wanting immigration controls is pretty conclusive
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    chestnut said:

    nunu said:

    Pong said:

    A whole generation, completely f*cked by the housing market.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39301963

    This is how the conservative party dies.

    I do think this is the reason Labour bucked the trend in London during GE 2015.
    I wonder if anyone has compared changes in housing tenure to electoral changes by constituency.

    Looking at the number of owner occupiers in the London constituencies the Conservatives lost in 2015:

    Brentford
    2001 59%
    2011 50%

    Ealing Acton
    2001 57%
    2011 46%

    Enfield N
    2001 71%
    2011 59%

    Ilford N
    2001 77%
    2011 70%

    I suspect those are larger falls than average.

    Morley by contrast was 76% owner occupied in both 2001 and 2011.

    The data is from UKPR.
    I wonder what the figure is for poor quality Buy To Let conversions?

    Remove the London subsidy premium for rent and watch the prices fall. Likewise, a bit of migration reversal.
    Looking at owner occupation in the London constituencies where the Conservative vote has disintegrated:

    Brent N
    2001 69%
    2011 54%

    Croydon N
    2001 65%
    2011 51%

    Edmonton
    2001 65%
    2011 49%

    Hayes
    2001 68%
    2011 54%

    Ilford S
    2001 73%
    2011 59%

    Some huge drops there - especially as in 2001 home ownership was still rising and it will have fallen even more by 2015.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Testing Brexitism to destruction is a dirty job, but she did volunteer for it.

    Can you imagine the fury on here and among right-wing Atlanticists if that uppity African and his spokesman had accused the UK of spying on him? Fact is, Trump is the most anti-British US president for decades. And there are still people who think he'll give us a great trade deal :-D

    I liked Obama but he did remove the Churchill bust which Trump restored and Obama himself said his closest international ally was Merkel not May. The fact is that other than Netanyahu and maybe Abe, May is Trump's most reliable international ally, that is why he saw those leaders first at the White House

    He has accused us of spying on him!!

    His spokesman said GCHQ did, Trump himself has not commented either way but the White House has said it will make no further comment on the issue

    They just did, though. His spokesman stands by the accusation. Imagine the furore if this had been Obama.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    'At least we have something in common in terms of wiretapping by the previous administration' says Trump to Merkel
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    HYUFD said:

    'At least we have something in common in terms of wiretapping by the previous administration' says Trump to Merkel

    LOL!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Her tougher stance on immigration though is what the public really want, her relationship with Trump is a side issue for most voters

    For now.

    Over 60% wanting immigration controls is pretty conclusive

    For now.

  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Local by-election results

    Walton le Dale East (South Ribble) :
    CON: 49.4% (-5.1)
    LAB: 36.0% (-9.4)
    LDEM: 14.6% (+14.6)

    Saham Toney (Breckland):
    CON: 48.1% (-2.7)
    LDEM: 15.1% (+15.1)
    IND: 14.9% (+14.9)
    UKIP: 11.5% (-20.1)
    LAB: 10.3% (+10.3)
    No Grn as prev.

    South Heaton (Newcastle upon Tyne) :
    LAB: 46.8% (-11.8)
    GRN: 27.1% (+1.7)
    LDEM: 15.9% (+11.5)
    UKIP: 5.4% (-1.5)
    CON: 4.9% (+0.2)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Topping, writing a column is one thing, editing a newspaper quite another.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Testing Brexitism to destruction is a dirty job, but she did volunteer for it.

    Can you imagine the fury on here and among right-wing Atlanticists if that uppity African and his spokesman had accused the UK of spying on him? Fact is, Trump is the most anti-British US president for decades. And there are still people who think he'll give us a great trade deal :-D

    I liked Obama but he did remove the Churchill bust which Trump restored and Obama himself said his closest international ally was Merkel not May. The fact is that other than Netanyahu and maybe Abe, May is Trump's most reliable international ally, that is why he saw those leaders first at the White House
    Wasn't the story about the bust more complex than that (something like there were two; one permanent and one on loan) ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Testing Brexitism to destruction is a dirty job, but she did volunteer for it.

    Can you imagine the fury on here and among right-wing Atlanticists if that uppity African and his spokesman had accused the UK of spying on him? Fact is, Trump is the most anti-British US president for decades. And there are still people who think he'll give us a great trade deal :-D

    I liked Obama but he did remove the Churchill bust which Trump restored and Obama himself said his closest international ally was Merkel not May. The fact is that other than Netanyahu and maybe Abe, May is Trump's most reliable international ally, that is why he saw those leaders first at the White House

    He has accused us of spying on him!!

    His spokesman said GCHQ did, Trump himself has not commented either way but the White House has said it will make no further comment on the issue

    They just did, though. His spokesman stands by the accusation. Imagine the furore if this had been Obama.
    Clinton accused the Major government of helping the Bush Snr administration, longer term it amounted to little
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Testing Brexitism to destruction is a dirty job, but she did volunteer for it.

    Can you imagine the fury on here and among right-wing Atlanticists if that uppity African and his spokesman had accused the UK of spying on him? Fact is, Trump is the most anti-British US president for decades. And there are still people who think he'll give us a great trade deal :-D

    I liked Obama but he did remove the Churchill bust which Trump restored and Obama himself said his closest international ally was Merkel not May. The fact is that other than Netanyahu and maybe Abe, May is Trump's most reliable international ally, that is why he saw those leaders first at the White House

    He has accused us of spying on him!!

    Isn't it generally assumed that British intelligence services spy on US citizens for the US government and US intelligence services spy on British citizens for the British government.

    Thereby allowing both US and British governments to deny that they spy on their own citizens ?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited March 2017
    Alistair said:

    Of course a consequence of low interest rates has been Triple-Lock Pensions.

    Eh?
    Low interest rates = low bond yields = underperforming pension pots = bribe key voting demographic
    If your pension pot hasn't been in balanced global equities then you have the wrong provider 'coz, in no particular order:

    Low interest rates = low investment costs = low interest payments = higher profits = higher dividend payouts = lower discount rates = higher share prices.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    chestnut said:

    nunu said:

    Pong said:

    A whole generation, completely f*cked by the housing market.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39301963

    This is how the conservative party dies.

    I do think this is the reason Labour bucked the trend in London during GE 2015.
    I wonder if anyone has compared changes in housing tenure to electoral changes by constituency.

    Looking at the number of owner occupiers in the London constituencies the Conservatives lost in 2015:

    Brentford
    2001 59%
    2011 50%

    Ealing Acton
    2001 57%
    2011 46%

    Enfield N
    2001 71%
    2011 59%

    Ilford N
    2001 77%
    2011 70%

    I suspect those are larger falls than average.

    Morley by contrast was 76% owner occupied in both 2001 and 2011.

    The data is from UKPR.
    I wonder what the figure is for poor quality Buy To Let conversions?

    Remove the London subsidy premium for rent and watch the prices fall. Likewise, a bit of migration reversal.
    Looking at owner occupation in the London constituencies where the Conservative vote has disintegrated:

    Brent N
    2001 69%
    2011 54%

    Croydon N
    2001 65%
    2011 51%

    Edmonton
    2001 65%
    2011 49%

    Hayes
    2001 68%
    2011 54%

    Ilford S
    2001 73%
    2011 59%

    Some huge drops there - especially as in 2001 home ownership was still rising and it will have fallen even more by 2015.
    I'm pretty familiar with two of those areas.

    Vast population change and the degradation of the housing stock by BTL landlords are reasonably common in my experience. Lots of subsidised tenancies.

    London accounts for around a quarter of the UK housing benefit bill.

    We are witnessing the effect of excessive migration in tandem with cheap interest rates and a woefully designed housing benefit scheme.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Her tougher stance on immigration though is what the public really want, her relationship with Trump is a side issue for most voters

    For now.

    Over 60% wanting immigration controls is pretty conclusive

    For now.

    If you think any government will get away with leaving free movement unchecked after the Brexit vote you have got your head in the sand
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Testing Brexitism to destruction is a dirty job, but she did volunteer for it.

    Can you imagine the fury on here and among right-wing Atlanticists if that uppity African and his spokesman had accused the UK of spying on him? Fact is, Trump is the most anti-British US president for decades. And there are still people who think he'll give us a great trade deal :-D

    I liked Obama but he did remove the Churchill bust which Trump restored and Obama himself said his closest international ally was Merkel not May. The fact is that other than Netanyahu and maybe Abe, May is Trump's most reliable international ally, that is why he saw those leaders first at the White House

    He has accused us of spying on him!!

    His spokesman said GCHQ did, Trump himself has not commented either way but the White House has said it will make no further comment on the issue

    They just did, though. His spokesman stands by the accusation. Imagine the furore if this had been Obama.
    Clinton accused the Major government of helping the Bush Snr administration, longer term it amounted to little

    Trump's spokesman has effectively accused us of lying.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Testing Brexitism to destruction is a dirty job, but she did volunteer for it.

    Can you imagine the fury on here and among right-wing Atlanticists if that uppity African and his spokesman had accused the UK of spying on him? Fact is, Trump is the most anti-British US president for decades. And there are still people who think he'll give us a great trade deal :-D

    I liked Obama but he did remove the Churchill bust which Trump restored and Obama himself said his closest international ally was Merkel not May. The fact is that other than Netanyahu and maybe Abe, May is Trump's most reliable international ally, that is why he saw those leaders first at the White House
    Wasn't the story about the bust more complex than that (something like there were two; one permanent and one on loan) ?
    Maybe but Trump still managed to find one to put in his office unlike his predecessor
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Testing Brexitism to destruction is a dirty job, but she did volunteer for it.

    Can you imagine the fury on here and among right-wing Atlanticists if that uppity African and his spokesman had accused the UK of spying on him? Fact is, Trump is the most anti-British US president for decades. And there are still people who think he'll give us a great trade deal :-D

    I liked Obama but he did remove the Churchill bust which Trump restored and Obama himself said his closest international ally was Merkel not May. The fact is that other than Netanyahu and maybe Abe, May is Trump's most reliable international ally, that is why he saw those leaders first at the White House

    He has accused us of spying on him!!

    Isn't it generally assumed that British intelligence services spy on US citizens for the US government and US intelligence services spy on British citizens for the British government.

    Thereby allowing both US and British governments to deny that they spy on their own citizens ?
    That was denied on here this morning by someone who should know. Although who the denial was to benefit is another matter. :)
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    Iain Macleod was editor of the Spectator in the mid 1960s and remained an MP - as did Dick Crossman in the early 1970s when editor ofthe New Statesman.

    Boris Johnson was also editor of Spectator from 1999-2005, becoming an MP in 2001.
    I imagine Justin's point was that serious political figures managed to juggle editing and being an MP. BJ doesn't really count.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited March 2017

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Testing Brexitism to destruction is a dirty job, but she did volunteer for it.

    Can you imagine the fury on here and among right-wing Atlanticists if that uppity African and his spokesman had accused the UK of spying on him? Fact is, Trump is the most anti-British US president for decades. And there are still people who think he'll give us a great trade deal :-D

    I liked Obama but he did remove the Churchill bust which Trump restored and Obama himself said his closest international ally was Merkel not May. The fact is that other than Netanyahu and maybe Abe, May is Trump's most reliable international ally, that is why he saw those leaders first at the White House

    He has accused us of spying on him!!

    His spokesman said GCHQ did, Trump himself has not commented either way but the White House has said it will make no further comment on the issue

    They just did, though. His spokesman stands by the accusation. Imagine the furore if this had been Obama.
    Clinton accused the Major government of helping the Bush Snr administration, longer term it amounted to little

    Trump's spokesman has effectively accused us of lying.

    Sean Spicer will probably be out of his job in a year, Trump himself has said 'he did not "make an opinion" over claims the UK's GCHQ spy agency carried out wiretapping on him during the US election campaign.'
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39310075
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Testing Brexitism to destruction is a dirty job, but she did volunteer for it.

    Can you imagine the fury on here and among right-wing Atlanticists if that uppity African and his spokesman had accused the UK of spying on him? Fact is, Trump is the most anti-British US president for decades. And there are still people who think he'll give us a great trade deal :-D

    I liked Obama but he did remove the Churchill bust which Trump restored and Obama himself said his closest international ally was Merkel not May. The fact is that other than Netanyahu and maybe Abe, May is Trump's most reliable international ally, that is why he saw those leaders first at the White House

    He has accused us of spying on him!!

    His spokesman said GCHQ did, Trump himself has not commented either way but the White House has said it will make no further comment on the issue

    They just did, though. His spokesman stands by the accusation. Imagine the furore if this had been Obama.
    Clinton accused the Major government of helping the Bush Snr administration, longer term it amounted to little

    Trump's spokesman has effectively accused us of lying.

    To be fair, there's a good chance we are lying.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Presumably Trump believes that if you take away NASA's earth facing camera it makes it harder for them to fabricate pesky global warming data.. for 1.2m a year you'd hope the cost could be crowd sourced or picked up by Musk.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Her tougher stance on immigration though is what the public really want, her relationship with Trump is a side issue for most voters

    For now.

    Over 60% wanting immigration controls is pretty conclusive

    For now.

    If you think any government will get away with leaving free movement unchecked after the Brexit vote you have got your head in the sand

    No, I think Tory hubris and complacency will come home to roost at some stage. In the meantime, it is leading to very bad decision making that will cause significant damage to the UK and its interests.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Testing Brexitism to destruction is a dirty job, but she did volunteer for it.

    Can you imagine the fury on here and among right-wing Atlanticists if that uppity African and his spokesman had accused the UK of spying on him? Fact is, Trump is the most anti-British US president for decades. And there are still people who think he'll give us a great trade deal :-D

    I liked Obama but he did remove the Churchill bust which Trump restored and Obama himself said his closest international ally was Merkel not May. The fact is that other than Netanyahu and maybe Abe, May is Trump's most reliable international ally, that is why he saw those leaders first at the White House

    He has accused us of spying on him!!

    His spokesman said GCHQ did, Trump himself has not commented either way but the White House has said it will make no further comment on the issue

    They just did, though. His spokesman stands by the accusation. Imagine the furore if this had been Obama.
    Clinton accused the Major government of helping the Bush Snr administration, longer term it amounted to little

    Trump's spokesman has effectively accused us of lying.

    Sean Spicer will probably be out of his job in a year, Trump himself has said 'he did not "make an opinion" over claims the UK's GCHQ spy agency carried out wiretapping on him during the US election campaign.'
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39310075

    Spicer is Trump's spokesman. Let's see if he is fired over this.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Her tougher stance on immigration though is what the public really want, her relationship with Trump is a side issue for most voters

    For now.

    Over 60% wanting immigration controls is pretty conclusive

    For now.

    If you think any government will get away with leaving free movement unchecked after the Brexit vote you have got your head in the sand
    Why? There was no manifesto explaining what Brexit meant. It could as easily mean membership of the single market and free movement of people.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    TOPPING said:

    Alistair said:

    Of course a consequence of low interest rates has been Triple-Lock Pensions.

    Eh?
    Low interest rates = low bond yields = underperforming pension pots = bribe key voting demographic
    If your pension pot hasn't been in balanced global equities then you have the wrong provider 'coz, in no particular order:

    Low interest rates = low investment costs = low interest payments = higher profits = higher dividend payouts = lower discount rates = higher share prices.
    Alistair invests in Vanguard, so this isn't HIS pension pot he is talking about, more the great British unsophisticated investor in total.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited March 2017

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Her tougher stance on immigration though is what the public really want, her relationship with Trump is a side issue for most voters

    For now.

    Over 60% wanting immigration controls is pretty conclusive

    For now.

    If you think any government will get away with leaving free movement unchecked after the Brexit vote you have got your head in the sand

    No, I think Tory hubris and complacency will come home to roost at some stage. In the meantime, it is leading to very bad decision making that will cause significant damage to the UK and its interests.

    17 million voted to Leave the EU, in large part because of immigration, if she did not attempt to do so those voters would simply move to someone rather less savoury who would do it instead
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    theakes said:

    1. Does not look as if we will be leaving the EU
    2. Mrs May probably on the back benches in 18 months

    3. Lib Dems win Stoke
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    twitter.com/mikel_jollett/status/842814170399567872

    Hah, great clip!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Her tougher stance on immigration though is what the public really want, her relationship with Trump is a side issue for most voters

    For now.

    Over 60% wanting immigration controls is pretty conclusive

    For now.

    If you think any government will get away with leaving free movement unchecked after the Brexit vote you have got your head in the sand

    No, I think Tory hubris and complacency will come home to roost at some stage. In the meantime, it is leading to very bad decision making that will cause significant damage to the UK and its interests.

    Oh I DO hope so. This country is getting dreadfully divided!
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    Alistair said:

    Of course a consequence of low interest rates has been Triple-Lock Pensions.

    Eh?
    Low interest rates = low bond yields = underperforming pension pots = bribe key voting demographic
    Pension pots have been doing quite well, actually, so that doesn't work. Furthermore the triple lock benefits only very poor pensioners to any significant degree - those who are wholly or mainly dependent on state pensions.

    Having said that, it's served its purpose now, and should not be renewed in the next parliament, IMO. Currently I believe only the Labour Party is committed to keeping it.
    Pension pots have done very well over the last year.

    I suggested yesterday that as people get their annual updates they're going to feel rather flush and this will have a political effect.

    But for many recent years pension pots have been rather stagnant.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Several years back Mrs JackW was quite struck on the mini, until she sat in one !!

    I did advise her the reality would spoil her gushing perceptions, especially after driving an Audi Q7 to view the dinky offering .... :smiley:

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Testing Brexitism to destruction is a dirty job, but she did volunteer for it.

    Can you imagine the fury on here and among right-wing Atlanticists if that uppity African and his spokesman had accused the UK of spying on him? Fact is, Trump is the most anti-British US president for decades. And there are still people who think he'll give us a great trade deal :-D

    I liked Obama but he did remove the Churchill bust which Trump restored and Obama himself said his closest international ally was Merkel not May. The fact is that other than Netanyahu and maybe Abe, May is Trump's most reliable international ally, that is why he saw those leaders first at the White House

    He has accused us of spying on him!!

    Isn't it generally assumed that British intelligence services spy on US citizens for the US government and US intelligence services spy on British citizens for the British government.

    Thereby allowing both US and British governments to deny that they spy on their own citizens ?
    That was denied on here this morning by someone who should know. Although who the denial was to benefit is another matter. :)
    :smile:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited March 2017
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Trump thinks that Germany has a trade deal with the US and that the UK spied on him for Obama. I wonder if even among the swivel-eyed Atlanticist right there is a dawning realisation that we are not going to bestriding the world with the US once we have left the EU.

    Trump invited May before Merkel for a reason but as the new Mori makes clear we voted Leave to gain control of immigration not to stride around the world as the US mini me

    Yep - May's rush to Washington DC to prostrate herself and her country at Donald Trump's feet looks increasingly foolish; as do her remarks about the US and the UK leading the world.

    Her tougher stance on immigration though is what the public really want, her relationship with Trump is a side issue for most voters

    For now.

    Over 60% wanting immigration controls is pretty conclusive

    For now.

    If you think any government will get away with leaving free movement unchecked after the Brexit vote you have got your head in the sand
    Why? There was no manifesto explaining what Brexit meant. It could as easily mean membership of the single market and free movement of people.
    You obviously have not read the Mori poll out this evening I posted earlier. 61% want immigration control, compared to 43% who want single market access and 43% want no further contributions to the EU budget. Even in Scotland 57% put control of immigration as key, more than the 51% who put the single market as important
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    JackW said:

    Several years back Mrs JackW was quite struck on the mini, until she sat in one !!

    I did advise her the reality would spoil her gushing perceptions, especially after driving an Audi Q7 to view the dinky offering .... :smiley:

    We had a Mini back in 1962. Very happy memories. And no, we bought it not long after we got married.

    Mrs C learned to drive in it.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited March 2017

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just 44% think May will get a good Brexit deal. 61% prioritise the UK gaining control over its immigration policy, 43% think it important the UK stays in the single market and 43% think it important the UK makes no further contributions to the EU budget after Brexit
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html?amp

    Absolutely staggering that only 43% consider it important that we remain in the single market .... I would have expected a percentage well into the 90's for that question.
    In fact it only tied with the percentage who wanted to see us making no further contributions to the EU after Brexit. Strewth - it looks like there are going to be a huge number of disappointed people around at the end of the negotiations!
    People can be forgiven for not being crystal clear about what being members of vs having access to the single market actually means.

    They have had enough "they'll still sell us BMWs" to be understandably confused.
    Well BMW will still be selling us Oxford built Minis, I think we can be sure of that!
    Minis are so over. Who buys them any more?
    Didn't SeanT buy one?
    LOL.

    Edit: that's a joke, right?
    ISTR he was going on about picking up his new Mini, and how brilliant it was, a couple of years ago. Although my memory may well be faulty.
    Good memory JJ, but possibly more than 2 years ago. It was probably around the same time as he was extolling the virtues of Tesco's own-label Merlot, costing around £5.99 a bottle, or whatever his modestly priced tipple was at the time .... not that he'd admit as much now of course.
This discussion has been closed.