Macron 62%, Le Pen 38%; Fillon 56.5%, Le Pen 43.5%.
So (assume Le Pen gets into R2, wave hands) 1 in 11 of those who say they'd vote for Macron against Le Pen also say they'll vote for Le Pen if her opponent is Fillon. Such people are hardly committed to "centrism".
In 1960 Nixon was ahead of Kennedy in the polls too until the first one-on-one TV debate. Sure, Macron could in principle cry off, but he'd be taking a much bigger risk than Chirac did in 2002 when Le Pen père was far less popular than his daughter Marine is now.
Getting a bit desperate if you are dredging up an example from 57 years ago, but if you are going to compare the two, Nixon led by about 6% leading up to the debates, Macron leads by 24%.
I thought of Nixon in that famous TV debate when I saw Macron last week. Crap on TV in 1960 is quite similar to crap on TV in 2017. Macron presented badly, but fortunately for him Le Pen didn't have much of a clue what she was doing with that graph. Didn't she prepare? Having a look over the paper to check she was pointing in the right place looked awful. Didn't her people have a damned close look at how Netanyahu did it at the United Nations?
The polls I saw showed Macron as the winner of the debate. Why shouldn't he win the next one too?
I voted to Remain in the EU. If we were to have another referendum then I would vote Remain again because my instincts would compel me to do so. I don't want another referendum though... on anything... ever...
As a Leaver, I'm with you.
Referendums are sometimes necessary, unfortunately, but on these big issues by God they are divisive. We've seen it in Scotland, and now across the UK.
Enough referendums, now. For a while. Let's go back to elections, and parliamentary democracy (unless we can somehow make the leap to Swiss style plebiscitary democracy, which will be hard).
Incidentally, I think this anti-referendums mood will prevent Scottish indy for the foreseeable. Many Scots are still minded to go indy, but even more Scots just hate the idea of another campaign that splits the country. I suspect they will haver, and never quite have that vote, for a long time.
one way to avoid referendum and elections in general is to simply adopt a totally free society, and anrco-capitalist world, where there is no government, no states, no mandatary regulations so no need to elect anybody to decide them, or taxes to pay for there enforced. Cant see it happening in my life time but I can dream!!!!
As to the Scottish referendum, I wonder what would happen If May proposed having a referendum on having a referendum, i.e. Do you think there should not be any more referendums on Scottish independence for 10 years from the last referendum on the subject?
A society with no government, laws or regulations is one where anything goes, including murder and not one I or the vast majority of people would wish to live in
HYUDF
Not nessasraly, some believe a that privet security's company's and privet courts could and would emerge and do the job of the police and courts better than the government provided ones we have at the moment.
You're talking about a state run by a private company. Cue discussion of Dubai etc.
No I'm talking about a would without states, lots of competing security company's, who would offer there services to people, to keep costs down the company's would only accept costumers who agree to certain rules e.g. no murder, Protecting murders is expensive and bad for the company image, who would contract in mediators to steale disputes between to security companies and there customers, who would play a similar role to courts now.
As I say I'm not fully convinced myself, but I am glad there are some out there who are thinking about it.
I accept the referendum result in principle - ie, that we're not going to remain a full member of the EU at some point in the medium term.
I don't accept Theresa May's right to negotiate what replaces it.
If she held an election and got a majority on a manifesto spelling out what brexit means brexit means, then I'd accept her right to negotiate as my PM. Until that election happens, I don't consider her signature on the international agreements being renegotiated as a result of brexit as binding.
She will be heartbroken. I fact I think I can, even now, hear the soft fall of her tears. Oh woe is her. Oh woe are we all.
I voted to Remain in the EU. If we were to have another referendum then I would vote Remain again because my instincts would compel me to do so. I don't want another referendum though... on anything... ever...
I suspect they will haver, and never quite have that vote, for a long time.
one way to avoid referendum and elections in general is to simply adopt a totally free society, and anrco-capitalist world, where there is no government, no states, no mandatary regulations so no need to elect anybody to decide them, or taxes to pay for there enforced. Cant see it happening in my life time but I can dream!!!!
As to the Scottish referendum, I wonder what would happen If May proposed having a referendum on having a referendum, i.e. Do you think there should not be any more referendums on Scottish independence for 10 years from the last referendum on the subject?
A society with no government, laws or regulations is one where anything goes, including murder and not one I or the vast majority of people would wish to live in
HYUDF
Not nessasraly, some believe a that privet security's company's and privet courts could and would emerge and do the job of the police and courts better than the government provided ones we have at the moment.
To be honest I'm not totally convinced and am a bit agnostic as to full anarchism.
But I do think that we could and should massively role back the importance of the state, in both our personal and economic affers. so that government becomes almost a irrelevance.
Not necessarily anarcho-capitalist, but very likely more syndicho-anarchist as organisations organically arise to protect workers interests, by economic or physical power. Either system is pretty tough on those without physical or economic power, the elderly or sick for example. Pretty dystophian.
I suspect that the best organisations to arise will be profit driven company's but hay, if a trade union or CO-OP wants to try its hand then why not.
I do accept that you and many other think it will be bad for the pore/sick/elderly. and I'm no doubt that you have concern for them. But so do I and I think they will have better lives they they do now. I sea it as a would that would be much richer than now and that wealth would be more equally distributed, making the pore much better off. There will always be some would can not work, for the same reason you care about them ad I care about them , there will be charity's, and in a would where everybody is richer there will be more money to give.
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
It gives us the opportunity to increase trade with the rest of the would. Ideally by Unilaterally abolishing all of the UKs trade tariffs, or as a second best option by singing a lot of bilateral free trade deals, hopefully combined with lowering/eliminating trade tariffs on some goods unilaterally.
I voted to Remain in the EU. If we were to have another referendum then I would vote Remain again because my instincts would compel me to do so. I don't want another referendum though... on anything... ever...
I suspect they will haver, and never quite have that vote, for a long time.
one way to avoid referendum and elections in general is to simply adopt a totally free society, and anrco-capitalist world, where there is no government, no states, no mandatary regulations so no need to elect anybody to decide them, or taxes to pay for there on the subject?
A society with no government, laws or regulations is one where anything goes, including murder and not one I or the vast majority of people would wish to live in
HYUDF
Not nessasraly, some believe a that privet security's company's and privet courts could and would emerge and do the job of the police and courts better than the government provided ones we have at the moment.
To be honest I'm not totally convinced and am a bit agnostic as to full anarchism.
But I do think that we could and should massively role back the importance of the state, in both our personal and economic affers. so that government becomes almost a irrelevance.
Not necessarily anarcho-capitalist, but very likely more syndicho-anarchin.
I suspect that the best organisations to arise will be profit driven company's but hay, if a trade union or CO-OP wants to try its hand then why not.
I do accept that you and many other think it will be bad for the pore/sick/elderly. and I'm no doubt that you have concern for them. But so do I and I think they will have better lives they they do now. I sea it as a would that would be much richer than now and that wealth would be more equally distributed, making the pore much better off. There will always be some would can not work, for the same reason you care about them ad I care about them , there will be charity's, and in a would where everybody is richer there will be more money to give.
It would be a world for the super rich with the occasional trickle down of charity to the power, largely living in expensive gated communities trying to keep the masses out. It is a world with little appeal unless you are rich which is why no party standing on such a libertarian platform would ever get elected, you are more likely to get a Fascist government or a Communist government than a purely libertarian society
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
It gives us the opportunity to increase trade with the rest of the would. Ideally by Unilaterally abolishing all of the UKs trade tariffs, or as a second best option by singing a lot of bilateral free trade deals, hopefully combined with lowering/eliminating trade tariffs on some goods unilaterally.
And what incentive does any significant trading country have to offer us trading terms that are better than we have now?
As a Left leave voter I said 2 days after the referendum that uk wouldn't leave the EU and I believe over the next 2 years some deal will happen to stay in
Unless a remarkable shift of opinion occur amongst Tory voters certainly not with May as PM
I voted to Remain in the EU. If we were to have another referendum then I would vote Remain again because my instincts would compel me to do so. I don't want another referendum though... on anything... ever...
I suspect they will haver, and never quite have that vote, for a long time.
one way to avoid referendum and elections in general is to simply adopt a totally free society, and anrco-capitalist world, where there is no government, no states, no mandatary regulations so no need to elect anybody to decide them, or taxes to pay for there on the subject?
A society with no government, laws or regulations is one where anything goes, including murder and not one I or the vast majority of people would wish to live in
HYUDF
Not nessasraly, some believe a that privet security's company's and privet courts could and would emerge and do the job of the police and courts better than the government provided ones we have at the moment.
To be honest I'm not totally convinced and am a bit agnostic as to full anarchism.
But I do think that we could and should massively role back the importance of the state, in both our personal and economic affers. so that government becomes almost a irrelevance.
Not necessarily anarcho-capitalist, but very likely more syndicho-anarchin.
I suspect that the best organisations to arise will be profit driven company's but hay, if a trade union or CO-OP wants to try its hand then why not.
I do accept that you and many other think it will be bad for the pore/sick/elderly. and I'm no doubt that you have concern for them. But so do I and I think they will have better lives they they do now. I sea it as a would that would be much richer than now and that wealth would be more equally distributed, making the pore much better off. There will always be some would can not work, for the same reason you care about them ad I care about them , there will be charity's, and in a would where everybody is richer there will be more money to give.
It would be a world for the super rich with the occasional trickle down of charity to the power, largely living in expensive gated communities trying to keep the masses out. It is a world with little appeal unless you are rich which is why no party standing on such a libertarian platform would ever get elected, you are more likely to get a Fascist government or a Communist government than a purely libertarian society
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
It gives us the opportunity to increase trade with the rest of the would. Ideally by Unilaterally abolishing all of the UKs trade tariffs, or as a second best option by singing a lot of bilateral free trade deals, hopefully combined with lowering/eliminating trade tariffs on some goods unilaterally.
And what incentive does any significant trading country have to offer us trading terms that are better than we have now?
Well for a start the smaller a nation is the easier it is for that country to negotiate Free Trade agreements, e.g. Iceland, Singapore, or New Zeeland, compared to USA or EU. because being smaller they have less sepcial interests lobbying for special arrangement.
but My big point was that we should just end all tariffs on all goods coming in to the UK, as we did in 1846, repeal of corn laws, or Hon Kong in 1947, and as predated by Adam smith and David Ricardo, become fantastically rich, after which other contrary's will look at us and say 'we would do the same' and in time we will live in a tariff free would.
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
It gives us the opportunity to increase trade with the rest of the would. Ideally by Unilaterally abolishing all of the UKs trade tariffs, or as a second best option by singing a lot of bilateral free trade deals, hopefully combined with lowering/eliminating trade tariffs on some goods unilaterally.
And what incentive does any significant trading country have to offer us trading terms that are better than we have now?
Well for a start the smaller a nation is the easier it is for that country to negotiate Free Trade agreements, e.g. Iceland, Singapore, or New Zeeland, compared to USA or EU. because being smaller they have less sepcial interests lobbying for special arrangement.
but My big point was that we should just end all tariffs on all goods coming in to the UK, as we did in 1846, repeal of corn laws, or Hon Kong in 1947, and as predated by Adam smith and David Ricardo, become fantastically rich, after which other contrary's will look at us and say 'we would do the same' and in time we will live in a tariff free would.
It's easy for small nations to do trade deals because there is no serious negotiating. They take what they are given, or they don't.
In 1846, the UK was the world's industrial engine. It could afford a tariff free regime because it faced no competition outside of agriculture. If we do what you suggest now we will kill all British manufacturing, while no-one would have any incentive to reciprocate.
I not a sociologist, but I would suspect that its probably essayer for a person who normally votes Tory, to come to terms with Leave, knowing that it is being implemented by a Conservative Remain PM. Than for people who don't vote Tory.
Probably so, yes. Though the referendum pushed my support for the Conservatives to beyond breaking point. I can't imagine voting for them again.
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
It gives us the opportunity to increase trade with the rest of the would. Ideally by Unilaterally abolishing all of the UKs trade tariffs, or as a second best option by singing a lot of bilateral free trade deals, hopefully combined with lowering/eliminating trade tariffs on some goods unilaterally.
And what incentive does any significant trading country have to offer us trading terms that are better than we have now?
Well for a start the smaller a nation is the easier it is for that country to negotiate Free Trade agreements, e.g. Iceland, Singapore, or New Zeeland, compared to USA or EU. because being smaller they have less sepcial interests lobbying for special arrangement.
but My big point was that we should just end all tariffs on all goods coming in to the UK, as we did in 1846, repeal of corn laws, or Hon Kong in 1947, and as predated by Adam smith and David Ricardo, become fantastically rich, after which other contrary's will look at us and say 'we would do the same' and in time we will live in a tariff free would.
May will reciprocate every tariff imposed on UK goods and services with one of her own
A fantastically deceptive headline up there. Well done.
There are increasing rumours, that started circulating about a week ago, that Mike Flynn may be 'co-operating' with the FBI investigation on links between the Trump campaign and Putin's regime.
This may indicate just how serious this investigation is and how serious the implications for the Trump circle and his presidency.
A fantastically deceptive headline up there. Well done.
There are increasing rumours, that started circulating about a week ago, that Mike Flynn may be 'co-operating' with the FBI investigation on links between the Trump campaign and Putin's regime.
This may indicate just how serious this investigation is and how serious the implications for the Trump circle and his presidency.
Unless and until the Democrats take Congress though and really both Chambers, there is no chance of Trump being impeached
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
It gives us the opportunity to increase trade with the rest of the would. Ideally by Unilaterally abolishing all of the UKs trade tariffs, or as a second best option by singing a lot of bilateral free trade deals, hopefully combined with lowering/eliminating trade tariffs on some goods unilaterally.
And what incentive does any significant trading country have to offer us trading terms that are better than we have now?
Well for a start the smaller a nation is the easier it is for that country to negotiate Free Trade agreements, e.g. Iceland, Singapore, or New Zeeland, compared to USA or EU. because being smaller they have less sepcial interests lobbying for special arrangement.
but My big point was that we should just end all tariffs on all goods coming in to the UK, as we did in 1846, repeal of corn laws, or Hon Kong in 1947, and as predated by Adam smith and David Ricardo, become fantastically rich, after which other contrary's will look at us and say 'we would do the same' and in time we will live in a tariff free would.
May will reciprocate every tariff imposed on UK goods and services with one of her own
Can you imagine the interest and pressure groups for that one, ie Welsh farmers wanting imported Lamb tariffs, or milk from ireland having tariffs imposed. I am not sure it is a path that is easy to follow.
A fantastically deceptive headline up there. Well done.
There are increasing rumours, that started circulating about a week ago, that Mike Flynn may be 'co-operating' with the FBI investigation on links between the Trump campaign and Putin's regime.
This may indicate just how serious this investigation is and how serious the implications for the Trump circle and his presidency.
Unless and until the Democrats take Congress though and really both Chambers, there is no chance of Trump being impeached</blockquote
Impeachment may end up irrelevant if the direction of travel is maintained.
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
It gives us the opportunity to increase trade with the rest of the would. Ideally by Unilaterally abolishing all of the UKs trade tariffs, or as a second best option by singing a lot of bilateral free trade deals, hopefully combined with lowering/eliminating trade tariffs on some goods unilaterally.
And what incentive does any significant trading country have to offer us trading terms that are better than we have now?
Well for a start the smaller a nation is the easier it is for that country to negotiate Free Trade agreements, e.g. Iceland, Singapore, or New Zeeland, compared to USA or EU. because being smaller they have less sepcial interests lobbying for special arrangement.
but My big point was that we should just end all tariffs on all goods coming in to the UK, as we did in 1846, repeal of corn laws, or Hon Kong in 1947, and as predated by Adam smith and David Ricardo, become fantastically rich, after which other contrary's will look at us and say 'we would do the same' and in time we will live in a tariff free would.
May will reciprocate every tariff imposed on UK goods and services with one of her own
Can you imagine the interest and pressure groups for that one, ie Welsh farmers wanting imported Lamb tariffs, or milk from ireland having tariffs imposed. I am not sure it is a path that is easy to follow.
It is easier to follow than letting UK manufacturing and farming exporters go to the wall while imports from abroad can come into the UK market without tariffs
A fantastically deceptive headline up there. Well done.
There are increasing rumours, that started circulating about a week ago, that Mike Flynn may be 'co-operating' with the FBI investigation on links between the Trump campaign and Putin's regime.
This may indicate just how serious this investigation is and how serious the implications for the Trump circle and his presidency.
Unless and until the Democrats take Congress though and really both Chambers, there is no chance of Trump being impeached
Constitutionally it is the only process to remove an elected President, otherwise Trump stays as long as he wants
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
It gives us the opportunity to increase trade with the rest of the would. Ideally by Unilaterally abolishing all of the UKs trade tariffs, or as a second best option by singing a lot of bilateral free trade deals, hopefully combined with lowering/eliminating trade tariffs on some goods unilaterally.
And what incentive does any significant trading country have to offer us trading terms that are better than we have now?
Well for a start the smaller a nation is the easier it is for that country to negotiate Free Trade agreements, e.g. Iceland, Singapore, or New Zeeland, compared to USA or EU. because being smaller they have less sepcial interests lobbying for special arrangement.
but My big point was that we should just end all tariffs on all goods coming in to the UK, as we did in 1846, repeal of corn laws, or Hon Kong in 1947, and as predated by Adam smith and David Ricardo, become fantastically rich, after which other contrary's will look at us and say 'we would do the same' and in time we will live in a tariff free would.
May will reciprocate every tariff imposed on UK goods and services with one of her own
A fantastically deceptive headline up there. Well done.
There are increasing rumours, that started circulating about a week ago, that Mike Flynn may be 'co-operating' with the FBI investigation on links between the Trump campaign and Putin's regime.
This may indicate just how serious this investigation is and how serious the implications for the Trump circle and his presidency.
Unless and until the Democrats take Congress though and really both Chambers, there is no chance of Trump being impeached
Constitutionally it is the only process to remove an elected President, otherwise Trump stays as long as he wants
You can kill a presidency by rendering it non functional. The constitution becomes irrelevant.
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
It gives us the opportunity to increase trade with the rest of the would. Ideally by Unilaterally abolishing all of the UKs trade tariffs, or as a second best option by singing a lot of bilateral free trade deals, hopefully combined with lowering/eliminating trade tariffs on some goods unilaterally.
And what incentive does any significant trading country have to offer us trading terms that are better than we have now?
Well for a start the smaller a nation is the easier it is for that country to negotiate Free Trade agreements, e.g. Iceland, Singapore, or New Zeeland, compared to USA or EU. because being smaller they have less sepcial interests lobbying for special arrangement.
but My big point was that we should just end all tariffs on all goods coming in to the UK, as we did in 1846, repeal of corn laws, or Hon Kong in 1947, and as predated by Adam smith and David Ricardo, become fantastically rich, after which other contrary's will look at us and say 'we would do the same' and in time we will live in a tariff free would.
May will reciprocate every tariff imposed on UK goods and services with one of her own
A fantastically deceptive headline up there. Well done.
There are increasing rumours, that started circulating about a week ago, that Mike Flynn may be 'co-operating' with the FBI investigation on links between the Trump campaign and Putin's regime.
This may indicate just how serious this investigation is and how serious the implications for the Trump circle and his presidency.
Unless and until the Democrats take Congress though and really both Chambers, there is no chance of Trump being impeached
Constitutionally it is the only process to remove an elected President, otherwise Trump stays as long as he wants
You can kill a presidency by rendering it non functional. The constitution becomes irrelevant.
As long as the President remains Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces and in charge of the nuclear codes he is never non functional
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
It gives us the opportunity to increase trade with the rest of the would. Ideally by Unilaterally abolishing all of the UKs trade tariffs, or as a second best option by singing a lot of bilateral free trade deals, hopefully combined with lowering/eliminating trade tariffs on some goods unilaterally.
And what incentive does any significant trading country have to offer us trading terms that are better than we have now?
Well for a start the smaller a nation is the easier it is for that country to negotiate Free Trade agreements, e.g. Iceland, Singapore, or New Zeeland, compared to USA or EU. because being smaller they have less sepcial interests lobbying for special arrangement.
but My big point was that we should just end all tariffs on all goods coming in to the UK, as we did in 1846, repeal of corn laws, or Hon Kong in 1947, and as predated by Adam smith and David Ricardo, become fantastically rich, after which other contrary's will look at us and say 'we would do the same' and in time we will live in a tariff free would.
It's easy for small nations to do trade deals because there is no serious negotiating. They take what they are given, or they don't.
In 1846, the UK was the world's industrial engine. It could afford a tariff free regime because it faced no competition outside of agriculture. If we do what you suggest now we will kill all British manufacturing, while no-one would have any incentive to reciprocate.
Where to start.
If small free trading nations 'take what they are given' how come they are so rich?
1846 - you are putting the cart before the horses their, yes the UK had started to industries, but was with the elimination of tariffs, that we could by more food from abroad and the Add to dictionary labours move to the factories that turned the UK In to the worlds industrial engine.
If British Manufacturing cant stand up to competition how come we export so much right now, including to the EU.
Trade creates wealth, the more trade and with more divers nations crates more wealth, that's why nations that trade more and have lower tariffs get richer!
A fantastically deceptive headline up there. Well done.
There are increasing rumours, that started circulating about a week ago, that Mike Flynn may be 'co-operating' with the FBI investigation on links between the Trump campaign and Putin's regime.
This may indicate just how serious this investigation is and how serious the implications for the Trump circle and his presidency.
Unless and until the Democrats take Congress though and really both Chambers, there is no chance of Trump being impeached
The iPad etc ban on planes. Interesting Pakistan/Afghanistan wasn't on the ban list, especially since Pakistan seems to be having an atrocity every week.
As a Left leave voter I said 2 days after the referendum that uk wouldn't leave the EU and I believe over the next 2 years some deal will happen to stay in
Fuck voting ever again if that were to happen. But I'm sure we will leave, you are a leftie so are permenantly pessimistic.
A fantastically deceptive headline up there. Well done.
There are increasing rumours, that started circulating about a week ago, that Mike Flynn may be 'co-operating' with the FBI investigation on links between the Trump campaign and Putin's regime.
This may indicate just how serious this investigation is and how serious the implications for the Trump circle and his presidency.
Unless and until the Democrats take Congress though and really both Chambers, there is no chance of Trump being impeached
Constitutionally it is the only process to remove an elected President, otherwise Trump stays as long as he wants
You can kill a presidency by rendering it non functional. The constitution becomes irrelevant.
As long as the President remains Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces and in charge of the nuclear codes he is never non functional
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
It gives us the opportunity to increase trade with the rest of the would. Ideally by Unilaterally abolishing all of the UKs trade tariffs, or as a second best option by singing a lot of bilateral free trade deals, hopefully combined with lowering/eliminating trade tariffs on some goods unilaterally.
And what incentive does any significant trading country have to offer us trading terms that are better than we have now?
Well for a start the smaller a nation is the easier it is for that country to negotiate Free Trade agreements, e.g. Iceland, Singapore, or New Zeeland, compared to USA or EU. because being smaller they have less sepcial interests lobbying for special arrangement.
but My big point was that we should just end all tariffs on all goods coming in to the UK, as we did in 1846, repeal of corn laws, or Hon Kong in 1947, and as predated by Adam smith and David Ricardo, become fantastically rich, after which other contrary's will look at us and say 'we would do the same' and in time we will live in a tariff free would.
May will reciprocate every tariff imposed on UK goods and services with one of her own
Islington as two KNIFEMEN in a car mow down three people outside a pub 'at 50mph' after mounting the pavement in London's cosmopolitan heartland - but police say it's NOT terror
Norton Knatchbull School in Ashford, Kent, emailed students last week warning that the increase in absences due to illness were unacceptable.
In the message, sent to sixth form students, staff attached a picture which read “suck it up cupcake... deal with it like the mature adult you think you are.”
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
It gives us the opportunity to increase trade with the rest of the would. Ideally by Unilaterally abolishing all of the UKs trade tariffs, or as a second best option by singing a lot of bilateral free trade deals, hopefully combined with lowering/eliminating trade tariffs on some goods unilaterally.
And what incentive does any significant trading country have to offer us trading terms that are better than we have now?
Well for a start the smaller a nation is the easier it is for that country to negotiate Free Trade agreements, e.g. Iceland, Singapore, or New Zeeland, compared to USA or EU. because being smaller they have less sepcial interests lobbying for special arrangement.
but My big point was that we should just end all tariffs on all goods coming in to the UK, as we did in 1846, repeal of corn laws, or Hon Kong in 1947, and as predated by Adam smith and David Ricardo, become fantastically rich, after which other contrary's will look at us and say 'we would do the same' and in time we will live in a tariff free would.
It's easy for small nations to do trade deals because there is no serious negotiating. They take what they are given, or they don't.
In 1846, the UK was the world's industrial engine. It could afford a tariff free regime because it faced no competition outside of agriculture. If we do what you suggest now we will kill all British manufacturing, while no-one would have any incentive to reciprocate.
Where to start.
If small free trading nations 'take what they are given' how come they are so rich?
1846 - you are putting the cart before the horses their, yes the UK had started to industries, but was with the elimination of tariffs, that we could by more food from abroad and the Add to dictionary labours move to the factories that turned the UK In to the worlds industrial engine.
If British Manufacturing cant stand up to competition how come we export so much right now, including to the EU.
Trade creates wealth, the more trade and with more divers nations crates more wealth, that's why nations that trade more and have lower tariffs get richer!
Small countries are rich for a number of reasons - a single commodity can do it, for example. Many of the richest ones are in the EU, of course. And whichever way you look at it, the UK is not Iceland.
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
It gives us the opportunity to increase trade with the rest of the would. Ideally by Unilaterally abolishing all of the UKs trade tariffs, or as a second best option by singing a lot of bilateral free trade deals, hopefully combined with lowering/eliminating trade tariffs on some goods unilaterally.
And what incentive does any significant trading country have to offer us trading terms that are better than we have now?
Well for a start the smaller a nation is the easier it is for that country to negotiate Free Trade agreements, e.g. Iceland, Singapore, or New Zeeland, compared to USA or EU. because being smaller they have less sepcial interests lobbying for special arrangement.
but My big point was that we should just end all tariffs on all goods coming in to the UK, as we did in 1846, repeal of corn laws, or Hon Kong in 1947, and as predated by Adam smith and David Ricardo, become fantastically rich, after which other contrary's will look at us and say 'we would do the same' and in time we will live in a tariff free would.
Where to start.
If small free trading nations 'take what they are given' how come they are so rich?
If British Manufacturing cant stand up to competition how come we export so much right now, including to the EU.
Trade creates wealth, the more trade and with more divers nations crates more wealth, that's why nations that trade more and have lower tariffs get richer!
Small countries are rich for a number of reasons - a single commodity can do it, for example. Many of the richest ones are in the EU, of course. And whichever way you look at it, the UK is not Iceland.
Nations that trade more get richer, that's because of 'comparative advantage' the more deferent the bigger the advantage for both sides.
but a question for you, you started this conversation off by saying that loosing the ability to trade freely with the rest of the EU would make the nation less rich. so why do you not think that trading with other nations more would not make us more rich?
I was poor anyway, maybe Brexit will help, who cares
At the time of the referendum I saw a vox pop with some thick scum Leave voters in a shit hole like Huddersfield or somewhere. When they attempted to articulate, mainly with simian sub-vocalisations, why they had voted Leave one heavily tattooed gentleman said "It can't be any worse, can it?"
So there you go, he was living the 8th or whatever richest country in the world that had enjoyed 80 years of continuous peace and security and he couldn't imagine anything worse and voted for Brexit to express his discontent.
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
It gives us the opportunity to increase trade with the rest of the would. Ideally by Unilaterally abolishing all of the UKs trade tariffs, or as a second best option by singing a lot of bilateral free trade deals, hopefully combined with lowering/eliminating trade tariffs on some goods unilaterally.
And what incentive does any significant trading country have to offer us trading terms that are better than we have now?
Well for a start the smaller a nation is the easier it is for that country to negotiate Free Trade agreements, e.g. Iceland, Singapore, or New Zeeland, compared to USA or EU. because being smaller they have less sepcial interests lobbying for special arrangement.
but My big pointh other contrary's will look at us and say 'we would do the same' and in time we will live in a tariff free would.
Where to start.
If small free trading nations 'take what they are given' how come they are so rich?
If British Manufacturing cant stand up to competition how come we export so much right now, including to the EU.
Trade creates wealth, the more trade and with more divers nations crates more wealth, that's why nations that trade more and have lower tariffs get richer!
Small countries are rich for a number of reasons - a single commodity can do it, for example. Many of the richest ones are in the EU, of course. And whichever way you look at it, the UK is not Iceland.
Nations that trade more get richer, that's because of 'comparative advantage' the more deferent the bigger the advantage for both sides.
but a question for you, you started this conversation off by saying that loosing the ability to trade freely with the rest of the EU would make the nation less rich. so why do you not think that trading with other nations more would not make us more rich?
Because no deal we will ever get will be as good as being in the Single Market. It's not just tariffs, but the speed and efficiency of doing business it allows. For example, we can ship things anywhere inside the EU currently and know there will be no customs delays. That does not apply anywhere else. Being inside the single market gives frictionless access to 460 million people.
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
It gives us the opportunity to increase trade with the rest of the would. Ideally by Unilaterally abolishing all of the UKs trade tariffs, or as a second best option by singing a lot of bilateral free trade deals, hopefully combined with lowering/eliminating trade tariffs on some goods unilaterally.
And what incentive does any significant trading country have to offer us trading terms that are better than we have now?
Well for a start the smaller a nation is the easier it is for that country to negotiate Free Trade agreements, e.g. Iceland, Singapore, or New Zeeland, compared to USA or EU. because being smaller they have less sepcial interests lobbying for special arrangement.
but My big pointh other contrary's will look at us and say 'we would do the same' and in time we will live in a tariff free would.
Where to start.
If small free trading nations 'take what they are given' how come they are so rich?
If British Manufacturing cant stand up to competition how come we export so much right now, including to the EU.
Trade creates wealth, the more trade and with more divers nations crates more wealth, that's why nations that trade more and have lower tariffs get richer!
Small countries are rich for a number of reasons - a single commodity can do it, for example. Many of the richest ones are in the EU, of course. And whichever way you look at it, the UK is not Iceland.
Because no deal we will ever get will be as good as being in the Single Market. It's not just tariffs, but the speed and efficiency of doing business it allows. For example, we can ship things anywhere inside the EU currently and know there will be no customs delays. That does not apply anywhere else. Being inside the single market gives frictionless access to 460 million people.
So why can we not have that with the rest of the would? or at least a good part of it.
lets suppose for a moment that leaving the EU meant a small reduction in the efficacy of trading with the EU, (I don think it will but for the sack of argument) if costs of trading increase by 10% on that trade but fall by 50% on our trade with the rest of the would.
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
It gives us the opportunityon some goods unilaterally.
And what incentive does any significant trading country have to offer us trading terms that are better than we have now?
Well for a arrangement.
but My big pointh other contrary's will look at us and say 'we would do the same' and in time we will live in a tariff free would.
Where to start.
Ifrich?
If BritishEU.
Trade createsricher!
Small countries are rich for a number of reasons - a single commodity can do it, for example. Many of the richest ones are in the EU, of course. And whichever way you look at it, the UK is not Iceland.
Because no deal we will ever to 460 million people.
So why can we not have that with the rest of the would? or at least a good part of it.
lets suppose for a moment that leaving the EU meant a small reduction in the efficacy of trading with the EU, (I don think it will but for the sack of argument) if costs of trading increase by 10% on that trade but fall by 50% on our trade with the rest of the would.
Leaving the single market and customs union will inevitably increase the cost of doing business in Europe as barriers will appear that are not there now.
I am currently in Hong Kong and going to Shenzhen on Tuesday. My company sees Asia as a major growth area and we have been doing well there for three years - building business and relationships. Leaving the EU won't change that. But it will not make things easier. All it will do is make it harder for us to operate in the market where we do 30% of our business. The result? We'll invest more in our Hong Kong office, in the US and open up somewhere inside the single market. That means will create fewer jobs in the UK than we would have done and pay less UK tax. The shareholders - ie me and my colleagues - will be fine. But if others do as we do - and I suspect plenty will - for the country as a whole it will be sub-optimal.
A fantastically deceptive headline up there. Well done.
There are increasing rumours, that started circulating about a week ago, that Mike Flynn may be 'co-operating' with the FBI investigation on links between the Trump campaign and Putin's regime.
This may indicate just how serious this investigation is and how serious the implications for the Trump circle and his presidency.
Unless and until the Democrats take Congress though and really both Chambers, there is no chance of Trump being impeached
Constitutionally it is the only process to remove an elected President, otherwise Trump stays as long as he wants
You can kill a presidency by rendering it non functional. The constitution becomes irrelevant.
I was poor anyway, maybe Brexit will help, who cares
At the time of the referendum I saw a vox pop with some thick scum Leave voters in a shit hole like Huddersfield or somewhere. When they attempted to articulate, mainly with simian sub-vocalisations, why they had voted Leave one heavily tattooed gentleman said "It can't be any worse, can it?"
So there you go, he was living the 8th or whatever richest country in the world that had enjoyed 80 years of continuous peace and security and he couldn't imagine anything worse and voted for Brexit to express his discontent.
A smarter person than you would ask why the working classes failed to reap any of the benefits of EU membership and instead just suffered from downward pressure on wages from immigration.
A more self aware person than you would realise that mocking people you perceive to be beneath you makes you an asshole
"Theresa May certainly has no interest in holding another referendum"
I don't think we know this. If she wanted to hold one she couldn't say so, because it would incentivize the other member states to make the deal shittier in the hope of a reversal, and the anti-EU side would blame the shittiness of the deal on her offering the referendum, and promise it would be renegotiated after the rereferendum.
It's possible that she wants to, since she opposed Brexit in the first place. It would either reverse Brexit or give her a mandate for her deal, and the anti-EU people would have to affect to like the deal for fear of losing the rereferendum.
The sequencing and party management issues are quite tricky, but it's probably doable if the voters have really changed their minds on Brexit. The problem with the whole scenario is that the voters probably won't change their minds on Brexit.
>It's possible that she wants to, since she opposed Brexit in the first place. It would either reverse Brexit or give her a mandate for her deal, and the anti-EU people would have to affect to like the deal for fear of losing the rereferendum.
It is also possible that Theresa May wishes to do a triple backflip in a Wonderwoman costume, whilst playing the Star Spangled Banner on a kazoo held up by a bald eagle, but we don't have any evidence for that either.
Of course we have to now leave the EU. That does not make it a good idea. It remains very hard to see how quitting a single market of 400 million plus is going to improve living standards and benefit those who feel left behind by globalisation.
It gives us the opportunity to increase trade with the rest of the would. Ideally by Unilaterally abolishing all of the UKs trade tariffs, or as a second best option by singing a lot of bilateral free trade deals, hopefully combined with lowering/eliminating trade tariffs on some goods unilaterally.
And what incentive does any significant trading country have to offer us trading terms that are better than we have now?
Well for a start the smaller a nation is the easier it is for that country to negotiate Free Trade agreements, e.g. Iceland, Singapore, or New Zeeland, compared to USA or EU. because being smaller they have less sepcial interests lobbying for special arrangement.
but My big point was that we should just end all tariffs on all goods coming in to the UK, as we did in 1846, repeal of corn laws, or Hon Kong in 1947, and as predated by Adam smith and David Ricardo, become fantastically rich, after which other contrary's will look at us and say 'we would do the same' and in time we will live in a tariff free would.
May will reciprocate every tariff imposed on UK goods and services with one of her own
Comments
No I'm talking about a would without states, lots of competing security company's, who would offer there services to people, to keep costs down the company's would only accept costumers who agree to certain rules e.g. no murder, Protecting murders is expensive and bad for the company image, who would contract in mediators to steale disputes between to security companies and there customers, who would play a similar role to courts now.
As I say I'm not fully convinced myself, but I am glad there are some out there who are thinking about it.
I fact I think I can, even now, hear the soft fall of her tears.
Oh woe is her. Oh woe are we all.
I do accept that you and many other think it will be bad for the pore/sick/elderly. and I'm no doubt that you have concern for them. But so do I and I think they will have better lives they they do now. I sea it as a would that would be much richer than now and that wealth would be more equally distributed, making the pore much better off. There will always be some would can not work, for the same reason you care about them ad I care about them , there will be charity's, and in a would where everybody is richer there will be more money to give.
but My big point was that we should just end all tariffs on all goods coming in to the UK, as we did in 1846, repeal of corn laws, or Hon Kong in 1947, and as predated by Adam smith and David Ricardo, become fantastically rich, after which other contrary's will look at us and say 'we would do the same' and in time we will live in a tariff free would.
In 1846, the UK was the world's industrial engine. It could afford a tariff free regime because it faced no competition outside of agriculture. If we do what you suggest now we will kill all British manufacturing, while no-one would have any incentive to reciprocate.
There are increasing rumours, that started circulating about a week ago, that Mike Flynn may be 'co-operating' with the FBI investigation on links between the Trump campaign and Putin's regime.
This may indicate just how serious this investigation is and how serious the implications for the Trump circle and his presidency.
If small free trading nations 'take what they are given' how come they are so rich?
1846 - you are putting the cart before the horses their, yes the UK had started to industries, but was with the elimination of tariffs, that we could by more food from abroad and the Add to dictionary labours move to the factories that turned the UK In to the worlds industrial engine.
If British Manufacturing cant stand up to competition how come we export so much right now, including to the EU.
Trade creates wealth, the more trade and with more divers nations crates more wealth, that's why nations that trade more and have lower tariffs get richer!
If you are siting in a boat with somebody else, and they shoot a hole in the bottom you don't make it better by shooting second hole in the bottom.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4349694/Four-pedestrians-left-injured-man-drives-them.html
Lucky they didn't get lit up like a Christmas tree.
In the message, sent to sixth form students, staff attached a picture which read “suck it up cupcake... deal with it like the mature adult you think you are.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/03/22/suck-cupcake-no-nonsense-grammar-school-warns-pupils-feeling/
Bloody snowflakes....and then the school have apologized. I would have told them to GFT.
It means 34% dont
God this is getting si boring
but a question for you, you started this conversation off by saying that loosing the ability to trade freely with the rest of the EU would make the nation less rich. so why do you not think that trading with other nations more would not make us more rich?
So there you go, he was living the 8th or whatever richest country in the world that had enjoyed 80 years of continuous peace and security and he couldn't imagine anything worse and voted for Brexit to express his discontent.
lets suppose for a moment that leaving the EU meant a small reduction in the efficacy of trading with the EU, (I don think it will but for the sack of argument) if costs of trading increase by 10% on that trade but fall by 50% on our trade with the rest of the would.
I am currently in Hong Kong and going to Shenzhen on Tuesday. My company sees Asia as a major growth area and we have been doing well there for three years - building business and relationships. Leaving the EU won't change that. But it will not make things easier. All it will do is make it harder for us to operate in the market where we do 30% of our business. The result? We'll invest more in our Hong Kong office, in the US and open up somewhere inside the single market. That means will create fewer jobs in the UK than we would have done and pay less UK tax. The shareholders - ie me and my colleagues - will be fine. But if others do as we do - and I suspect plenty will - for the country as a whole it will be sub-optimal.
A more self aware person than you would realise that mocking people you perceive to be beneath you makes you an asshole
I don't think we know this. If she wanted to hold one she couldn't say so, because it would incentivize the other member states to make the deal shittier in the hope of a reversal, and the anti-EU side would blame the shittiness of the deal on her offering the referendum, and promise it would be renegotiated after the rereferendum.
It's possible that she wants to, since she opposed Brexit in the first place. It would either reverse Brexit or give her a mandate for her deal, and the anti-EU people would have to affect to like the deal for fear of losing the rereferendum.
The sequencing and party management issues are quite tricky, but it's probably doable if the voters have really changed their minds on Brexit. The problem with the whole scenario is that the voters probably won't change their minds on Brexit.
It is also possible that Theresa May wishes to do a triple backflip in a Wonderwoman costume, whilst playing the Star Spangled Banner on a kazoo held up by a bald eagle, but we don't have any evidence for that either.