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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Branding the Tories totally around Theresa has made it easier

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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Barnesian said:

    Where will the Kippers go when Mrs May uses her huge majority to support the EU concessions she is going to make to ensure a soft landing for Brexit in the national interest?

    Will there be a resurgent UKIP party? It will be too late to do anything about the large Tory majority for the next five years.

    I think a lot depends on whether the EU is willing to make compromises that May feels she can sell. The mood music so far isn't encouraging, though it's early days of course.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612

    Moray Council @TheMorayCouncil

    Share of the votes:

    Cons: 36.1%
    Green: 2.6%
    Ind: 24.1%
    Lab: 4.3%
    Lib: 1.2%
    SNP: 31.6%
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @bbclaurak: Veteran Labour councillor in Derbyshire 'on the doorsteps people aren't prepared to support Lab as don't want to be seen supporting Corbyn'

    @janemerrick23: Labour have had terrible night, no doubt. But 3 mayors in 3 large cities show that people will vote for Labour "leaders" that aren't Corbyn

    Labour MPs, know what you need to do...
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,314
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @OliverCooper: West Midlands first round:
    Conservatives: 216,253 (42%)
    Labour: 210,259 (41%)
    Lib Dems: 30,378 (6%)
    UKIP: 29,051 (6%)
    Greens: 24,260 (5%)

    UKIP preferences will go heavily to Street and LD preferences will be split so I think Street has done it just as there are more UKIP than Green preferences
    Sion may have failed to school the good voters of the West Midlands in the art of Brownian blitzkreig.
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Caerphilly so far

    Lab 30
    Plaid 8
    Ind 2

    total number of councillors is 73. So majority is at 37
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Scott_P said:

    Alistair said:

    Interesting results in the Borders Councils

    @DavidMundellDCT: .@ScotTories top poll and elected at stage 1 in all 11 D&G Wards declared
    This is looking like Holyrood 2016 on crack, there a turnout increase of 5% almost all captured by the SCons, here a turnout increase of 8-10% seemingly captured by the Tories.

    All bets are off (or on) for next month. I have no clue how it will play out but I am glad I have lots of SCon bets.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,814
    edited May 2017
    It seems to me that Labour's results in the Midlands have been every bit as bad as predicted.
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    GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 1,996

    4 Tories elected in the Rhondda!

    But Labour held on

    Lab 46
    Plaid 12
    Con 4
    Ind 3
    LD 1
    Cynon Valley Party 1

    5 left to declare

    I think the Cons already had at least 1 councillor in Llantwit Vardre
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    Marcus Wells @MarcusWells_
    DA: "I think the net losses are about 50"
    ITN:"There are actually 125 net losses so far"
    DA: "Last time I looked we had net losses of 100”
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    The Midlands looks like it will be the Labour bloodbath I was expecting. And it will be worse at the GE. If you were going to devise a political figure designed specifically to repel Midlanders Corbyn would be it. If you didn't get it quite right you'd probably end up with Ed Miliband.

    Actually, no - it's mixed. The Tories gained Derbyshire but I think have fallen short in Notts (though 11 seats still to declare), in some cases by large margins, and very nearly lost two in my former patch. They've lost in Coventry but may well win the overall West Mids results. They've piled up lots of votes in seats they already held, but seemingly failed to break through in depressed areas like Mansfield. It's a good Tory result but a reasonable Labour defence so far - but let's see the final results before concluding anything.
    Health warning: Some Labour voters in areas where the party is still holding up at local level may not be so keen to vote for Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister.
    In heory yes, but Southam was talking about these results. And FWIW I don't think the GE figures will be very different unless there are major new developments. As I said in an earlier post, in 11 hours I only met two voters who said they'd vote differently in the GE (naturally we asked). My impression is that people who dislike Corbyn enough to switch from Labour have now done so, and the current figures are correct. Which are, as I predicted and as we're now seeing, poor but not as bad as the polls have been suggesting.

    I wonder if the polls have now been over-tweaked after the 2015 meltdown and now underestimate Labour turnout?
    I myself was wondering if the adjustment had been made in the other direction. A lot of the polls are now showing Labour in the range 28-30%. The notion that Labour might be doing as well as under Brown or even EdM in its present wretched state is difficult to take seriously - although, as always, one stands to be disproved by events.
    But Labour is doing quite a bit better in these elections than under Brown in 2009 at the peak of the Expenses scandal.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,330
    edited May 2017



    I myself was wondering if the adjustment had been made in the other direction. A lot of the polls are now showing Labour in the range 28-30%. The notion that Labour might be doing as well as under Brown or even EdM in its present wretched state is difficult to take seriously - although, as always, one stands to be disproved by events.

    I take it seriously - there's a core Labour vote plus an ex-Green/abstention/some LibDem vote that really like Corbyn (which Ed didn't really have despite the Milifan effort - I never met a really fervent Ed fan, though lots who thought he was better than depicted). Let's see what the National Equivalent Vote calculation shows.

    Don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying we're on course for anything but a Tory win on current figures. But the talk of Labour meltdown/collapse is overspun.
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    Alistair said:

    Interesting results in the Borders Councils

    @DavidMundellDCT: .@ScotTories top poll and elected at stage 1 in all 11 D&G Wards declared
    This is looking like Holyrood 2016 on crack, there a turnout increase of 5% almost all captured by the SCons, here a turnout increase of 8-10% seemingly captured by the Tories.

    All bets are off (or on) for next month. I have no clue how it will play out but I am glad I have lots of SCon bets.
    How motivated do you think SNP voters are to turn out for the GE? Clearly the Unionists are, do you think Indy voters will have the same enthusiasm?
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Alistair said:

    Interesting results in the Borders Councils

    In what way?
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Question on STV Mayoralty elections: when they count first pref, are the second pref counted at the same time? Or does another round of counting occur? i.e. quick result or slow result...
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,330
    It's be amusing if Sion wins thanks to Communist Party switchers - the Morning Star, key newspaper of influence!
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    East Lothian

    Lab 9 (-1)
    Con 7 (+4)
    SNP 6 (-3)

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    Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    Looking at the Scottish results many so a distinct lack of ambition in putting up only 1 candidate in each ward. The whole point of STV is that it allows electors to have a choice of each party's candidates and this is negated if there's only 1 of them.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,415
    Tories gain Lancashire CC. Steve Rotherham wins Liverpool City Region with59% of first prefs. Still one area of the country where people aren't embarrassed to vote Labour!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @SophyRidgeSky: Conservatives have gained Cambridgeshire from no overall control - Ukip down 12 seats #LE2017
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,814

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @OliverCooper: West Midlands first round:
    Conservatives: 216,253 (42%)
    Labour: 210,259 (41%)
    Lib Dems: 30,378 (6%)
    UKIP: 29,051 (6%)
    Greens: 24,260 (5%)

    UKIP preferences will go heavily to Street and LD preferences will be split so I think Street has done it just as there are more UKIP than Green preferences
    Sion may have failed to school the good voters of the West Midlands in the art of Brownian blitzkreig.
    Shortly there will be an election and Sion Simon will be defeated. This is the moment he was made for.
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Derbyshire final

    Conservatives 37 seats
    Labour 24
    Liberal Democrat 3

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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942

    Fooking come on Andy..

    Andy is a top bloke that I had the pleasure to work with. I'd sacrifice all these gains elsewhere for him winning tonight.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PolhomeEditor: On Jeremy Corbyn hot-footing it to join in Steve Rotheram's victory party, one Labour wag says: "He's the John Terry of British politics."
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,330
    Now confirmed - Tories failed to take Notts, after missing out on numerous target seats - I think they spread themselves too thinly while Labour focused well (usually it's the other way round!).
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Conservatives: 216,253 (42%)
    Labour: 210,259 (41%)
    Lib Dems: 30,378 (6%)
    UKIP: 29,051 (6%)
    Greens: 24,260 (5%)

    Very crude back-of-fag-packet guestimate - Street 260,000, Simon 250,000.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,952

    Scott_P said:
    It always amuses me that Labour and Lancashire have the same symbol. When was Lancashire last Tory controlled?
    Was Conservative 2009-13. Taking Blackpool and Blackburn (as unitary councils) out has made it much more Tory friendly.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Chris_A said:

    Looking at the Scottish results many so a distinct lack of ambition in putting up only 1 candidate in each ward. The whole point of STV is that it allows electors to have a choice of each party's candidates and this is negated if there's only 1 of them.

    The Tories ran out of candidates in some places. They didn't expect to be doing nearly this well when the selections were done
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,991
    tlg86 said:

    Why not poll under 16s? Or is that illegal?
    It is for the homophone of 'poll'.
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    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    Barnesian said:

    Where will the Kippers go when Mrs May uses her huge majority to support the EU concessions she is going to make to ensure a soft landing for Brexit in the national interest?

    Will there be a resurgent UKIP party? It will be too late to do anything about the large Tory majority for the next five years.

    I can't see how she can improve the strength of the pro-Remain position in the HoC by going for a landslide. The net change in England and Wales will probably be to replace 30-50 or so mainly Remain Labour MPs by 30-50 Tory MPs of whom 45% will be Leavers. Some, good grief, might turn out to be like Bone or Cash.

    The 45% figure is based on the stated views of the existing parliamentary party as of May 2016 when Tory MPs were split 55/45% for Remain. This split excludes MPs who refused to disclose which way they'd vote, e.g. Jesse Norman.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Marcus Wells @MarcusWells_
    DA: "I think the net losses are about 50"
    ITN:"There are actually 125 net losses so far"
    DA: "Last time I looked we had net losses of 100”

    Its so LOL it could actually be true.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819



    I myself was wondering if the adjustment had been made in the other direction. A lot of the polls are now showing Labour in the range 28-30%. The notion that Labour might be doing as well as under Brown or even EdM in its present wretched state is difficult to take seriously - although, as always, one stands to be disproved by events.

    I take it seriously - there's a core Labour vote plus an ex-Green/abstention/some LibDem vote that really like Corbyn (which Ed didn't really have despite the Milifan effort - I never met a really fervent Ed fan, though lots who thought he was better than depicted). Let's see what the National Equivalent Vote calculation shows.

    Don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying we're on course for anything but a Tory win on current figures. But the talk of Labour meltdown/collapse is overspun.
    What do you think Corbyn will do once Labour loses, if it is with a heavy loss but not complete meltdown (i.e. Finishing on 180 seats) - stand down, or soldier on?
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    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    edited May 2017
    But the young grow up ...

    (Well, most of them)
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614



    I myself was wondering if the adjustment had been made in the other direction. A lot of the polls are now showing Labour in the range 28-30%. The notion that Labour might be doing as well as under Brown or even EdM in its present wretched state is difficult to take seriously - although, as always, one stands to be disproved by events.

    I take it seriously - there's a core Labour vote plus an ex-Green/abstention/some LibDem vote that really like Corbyn (which Ed didn't really have despite the Milifan effort - I never met a really fervent Ed fan, though lots who thought he was better than depicted). Let's see what the National Equivalent Vote calculation shows.

    Don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying we're on course for anything but a Tory win on current figures. But the talk of Labour meltdown/collapse is overspun.
    What do you think Corbyn will do once Labour loses, if it is with a heavy loss but not complete meltdown (i.e. Finishing on 180 seats) - stand down, or soldier on?
    Soldier on, no question about it. He won't go until the hard left can fix future leadership elections.
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    FattyBolgerFattyBolger Posts: 299
    Where' Malc?
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    PaulMPaulM Posts: 613

    Scott_P said:
    It always amuses me that Labour and Lancashire have the same symbol. When was Lancashire last Tory controlled?
    2009-2013

    I think people are getting carried away with these county results - to me they just seem to have reversed the 2013 elections. Are there any counties where the conservatives have a much better performance than in 2009 ?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,814
    Good grief! It's looking like the Conservatives have won Teeside.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    Alistair said:

    Interesting results in the Borders Councils

    @DavidMundellDCT: .@ScotTories top poll and elected at stage 1 in all 11 D&G Wards declared
    This is looking like Holyrood 2016 on crack, there a turnout increase of 5% almost all captured by the SCons, here a turnout increase of 8-10% seemingly captured by the Tories.

    All bets are off (or on) for next month. I have no clue how it will play out but I am glad I have lots of SCon bets.
    Trend in Edinburgh is pretty clear. Turnout in wealthier areas is up 10%, turnout in not so wealthy areas is up about 5%.

    I would imagine this is being replicated across the country.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    BBC Projected National Share

    Con 38
    Lab 27
    LD 18
    UKIP 5
    OTH 12
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Now confirmed - Tories failed to take Notts, after missing out on numerous target seats - I think they spread themselves too thinly while Labour focused well (usually it's the other way round!).

    The Tories are the largest party by far, 3 short of control.. I guess spinning it as a Tory fail comforts for the disaster it is for Labour.
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Edinburgh_CC: Ward 2 - Pentland Hills result: 4 elected
    Graeme Bruce (Con)
    Neil Gardiner (SNP)
    Ricky Henderson (Lab)
    Susan Webber (Con)
    Turnout 50.5%
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Marcus Wells @MarcusWells_
    DA: "I think the net losses are about 50"
    ITN:"There are actually 125 net losses so far"
    DA: "Last time I looked we had net losses of 100”

    Its so LOL it could actually be true.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/05/diane-abbott-suffers-another-disastrous-interview-massively/
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,814
    PaulM said:

    Scott_P said:
    It always amuses me that Labour and Lancashire have the same symbol. When was Lancashire last Tory controlled?
    2009-2013

    I think people are getting carried away with these county results - to me they just seem to have reversed the 2013 elections. Are there any counties where the conservatives have a much better performance than in 2009 ?
    2009 was an extremely good result for the Conservatives.
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    RobinWiggsRobinWiggs Posts: 621
    Done some number crunching on WM Mayor.

    IF (big if) we assume:

    * Everyone expresses a second preference (or that drop out is spread evenly cross all four eliminated candidates) and,

    * UKIP break 90% tory, Lib Dem 50/50, Greens 90% to Lab and the COmmunists 100% to Lab,

    Then:

    Street wins it by 6k votes, a margin of 1.2%

    If we assume that UKIP, Green and Comm transfer assumptions above are solid, then crossover comes when the Lib Dem votes split 60/40 to Lab.

    I'd say it's on a complete knife edge and all down to the LibDem transfers. Proportionately there are slightly more LIB Dem votes in Bham and Soliwell.

    Make of that what you will...
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    SandraMSandraM Posts: 206
    Apologies if already posted but the West Sussex CC UKIP's group leader Sandra James has lost her seat. UKIP was the largest opposition group in West Sussex.
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    welfordwelford Posts: 20
    BBC reporter saying Tories have won Tees Valley Mayoralty
    @BBCRichardMoss
    Hartlepool still to declare but pretty clear Conservative @BenHouchen will be the first Tees Valley mayor #LE2017
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    BaskervilleBaskerville Posts: 391
    Fishing said:

    But the young grow up ...

    (Well, most of them)
    And the old move on to better things. Balances out.
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    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    Good to see my fellow Lancastrians going blue, hope there is more to come at the GE.

    Corbyn won't step down, but will we see more dissent from MP's though? More distancing from the leadership?
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    Have mid-term locals ever shown a swing toward the government before?
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    DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Is Simon still an MEP.
    And if so will he have to give that up if he becomes Mayor?
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Marcus Wells @MarcusWells_
    DA: "I think the net losses are about 50"
    ITN:"There are actually 125 net losses so far"
    DA: "Last time I looked we had net losses of 100”

    Its so LOL it could actually be true.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/05/diane-abbott-suffers-another-disastrous-interview-massively/
    FFS..
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    PaulMPaulM Posts: 613
    Sean_F said:

    PaulM said:

    Scott_P said:
    It always amuses me that Labour and Lancashire have the same symbol. When was Lancashire last Tory controlled?
    2009-2013

    I think people are getting carried away with these county results - to me they just seem to have reversed the 2013 elections. Are there any counties where the conservatives have a much better performance than in 2009 ?
    2009 was an extremely good result for the Conservatives.
    I agree Sean, but the topic seemed to be suggesting that there is a sea change afoot, and that parts of the Labour base have transitioned to UKIP and onto the Tories giving unprecedented Conservative support. Whereas the Conservative performance in many council areas seems to be something they have achieved before, namely in 2009.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    justin124 said:

    The Midlands looks like it will be the Labour bloodbath I was expecting. And it will be worse at the GE. If you were going to devise a political figure designed specifically to repel Midlanders Corbyn would be it. If you didn't get it quite right you'd probably end up with Ed Miliband.

    Actually, no - it's mixed. The Tories gained Derbyshire but I think have fallen short in Notts (though 11 seats still to declare), in some cases by large margins, and very nearly lost two in my former patch. They've lost in Coventry but may well win the overall West Mids results. They've piled up lots of votes in seats they already held, but seemingly failed to break through in depressed areas like Mansfield. It's a good Tory result but a reasonable Labour defence so far - but let's see the final results before concluding anything.
    Health warning: Some Labour voters in areas where the party is still holding up at local level may not be so keen to vote for Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister.
    In heory yes, but Southam was talking about these results. And FWIW I don't think the GE figures will be very different unless there are major new developments. As I said in an earlier post, in 11 hours I only met two voters who said they'd vote differently in the GE (naturally we asked). My impression is that people who dislike Corbyn enough to switch from Labour have now done so, and the current figures are correct. Which are, as I predicted and as we're now seeing, poor but not as bad as the polls have been suggesting.

    I wonder if the polls have now been over-tweaked after the 2015 meltdown and now underestimate Labour turnout?
    I myself was wondering if the adjustment had been made in the other direction. A lot of the polls are now showing Labour in the range 28-30%. The notion that Labour might be doing as well as under Brown or even EdM in its present wretched state is difficult to take seriously - although, as always, one stands to be disproved by events.
    But Labour is doing quite a bit better in these elections than under Brown in 2009 at the peak of the Expenses scandal.
    Your baseline now is the final midterm elections 12 years into a Labour government?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Leics final, I think

    Con 38 (+5)
    LD 13 (-)
    Lab 6 (-3)
    UKIP 0 (-2)

    The LD seats are almost all in the Bosworth and Harborough Constituencies.

    https://www.leicestershire.gov.uk/about-the-council/how-the-council-works/elections/election-2017
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited May 2017

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    They're turnouts of 20-30% I'm really not convinced a national voteshare projection from these results is meaningful.

    By and large, the voters who voted today will vote again next month. Their votes are likely to distributed in line with ^, with some small variation.

    The voters who didn't vote today, but will vote next month will split quite differently to ^.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Scott_P said:
    Happy to aftertime on this. This was the only Mayoral election I bet on.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,314
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @OliverCooper: West Midlands first round:
    Conservatives: 216,253 (42%)
    Labour: 210,259 (41%)
    Lib Dems: 30,378 (6%)
    UKIP: 29,051 (6%)
    Greens: 24,260 (5%)

    UKIP preferences will go heavily to Street and LD preferences will be split so I think Street has done it just as there are more UKIP than Green preferences
    Sion may have failed to school the good voters of the West Midlands in the art of Brownian blitzkreig.
    Shortly there will be an election and Sion Simon will be defeated. This is the moment he was made for.
    He is bursting with his sense of destiny. He has utterly shattered the glass paradigm of cyclical politics which has contained the West Midlands for over a century since 1906.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    The Midlands looks like it will be the Labour bloodbath I was expecting. And it will be worse at the GE. If you were going to devise a political figure designed specifically to repel Midlanders Corbyn would be it. If you didn't get it quite right you'd probably end up with Ed Miliband.

    Actually, no - it's mixed. The Tories gained Derbyshire but I think have fallen short in Notts (though 11 seats still to declare), in some cases by large margins, and very nearly lost two in my former patch. They've lost in Coventry but may well win the overall West Mids results. They've piled up lots of votes in seats they already held, but seemingly failed to break through in depressed areas like Mansfield. It's a good Tory result but a reasonable Labour defence so far - but let's see the final results before concluding anything.
    Health warning: Some Labour voters in areas where the party is still holding up at local level may not be so keen to vote for Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister.
    In heory yes, but Southam was talking about these results. And FWIW I don't think the GE figures will be very different unless there are major new developments. As I said in an earlier post, in 11 hours I only met two voters who said they'd vote differently in the GE (naturally we asked). My impression is that people who dislike Corbyn enough to switch from Labour have now done so, and the current figures are correct. Which are, as I predicted and as we're now seeing, poor but not as bad as the polls have been suggesting.

    I wonder if the polls have now been over-tweaked after the 2015 meltdown and now underestimate Labour turnout?
    I myself was wondering if the adjustment had been made in the other direction. A lot of the polls are now showing Labour in the range 28-30%. The notion that Labour might be doing as well as under Brown or even EdM in its present wretched state is difficult to take seriously - although, as always, one stands to be disproved by events.
    But Labour is doing quite a bit better in these elections than under Brown in 2009 at the peak of the Expenses scandal.
    Your baseline now is the final midterm elections 12 years into a Labour government?
    Not at all! I was simply addressing the suggestion that it was not realistic for Labour to perform as well as under Brown in 2010 when just 11 months earlier Labour suffered a much heavier defeat than we are seeing here.
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191

    justin124 said:

    The Midlands looks like it will be the Labour bloodbath I was expecting. And it will be worse at the GE. If you were going to devise a political figure designed specifically to repel Midlanders Corbyn would be it. If you didn't get it quite right you'd probably end up with Ed Miliband.

    Actually, no - it's mixed. The Tories gained Derbyshire but I think have fallen short in Notts (though 11 seats still to declare), in some cases by large margins, and very nearly lost two in my former patch. They've lost in Coventry but may well win the overall West Mids results. They've piled up lots of votes in seats they already held, but seemingly failed to break through in depressed areas like Mansfield. It's a good Tory result but a reasonable Labour defence so far - but let's see the final results before concluding anything.
    Health warning: Some Labour voters in areas where the party is still holding up at local level may not be so keen to vote for Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister.
    In heory yes, but Southam was talking about these results. And FWIW I don't think the GE figures will be very different unless there are major new developments. As I said in an earlier post, in 11 hours I only met two voters who said they'd vote differently in the GE (naturally we asked). My impression is that people who dislike Corbyn enough to switch from Labour have now done so, and the current figures are correct. Which are, as I predicted and as we're now seeing, poor but not as bad as the polls have been suggesting.

    I wonder if the polls have now been over-tweaked after the 2015 meltdown and now underestimate Labour turnout?
    I myself was wondering if the adjustment had been made in the other direction. A lot of the polls are now showing Labour in the range 28-30%. The notion that Labour might be doing as well as under Brown or even EdM in its present wretched state is difficult to take seriously - although, as always, one stands to be disproved by events.
    But Labour is doing quite a bit better in these elections than under Brown in 2009 at the peak of the Expenses scandal.
    Your baseline now is the final midterm elections 12 years into a Labour government?
    chuckle.
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    Anorak said:

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    Have mid-term locals ever shown a swing toward the government before?
    Bit of a stretch to call these "mid-terms" isn't it?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,803

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    That's OK... Bad but not catastrophic enough for Jezza to be ousted at the eleventh hour...
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    Theory (borrowed, not my own): Conservative figure is their floor, Labour and Lib Dem their ceiling (and in truth, if the Liberal Democrats get anywhere close of 18% at the General Election I'd be utterly astonished.)

    Anyway, regardless of the fact that local elections and general elections are clean different things, the raw figures help their narrative. They make the Coalition of Chaos look plausible.

    Oh, and Tory win in Tees Valley mayoral race just confirmed.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    Jason said:



    I myself was wondering if the adjustment had been made in the other direction. A lot of the polls are now showing Labour in the range 28-30%. The notion that Labour might be doing as well as under Brown or even EdM in its present wretched state is difficult to take seriously - although, as always, one stands to be disproved by events.

    I take it seriously - there's a core Labour vote plus an ex-Green/abstention/some LibDem vote that really like Corbyn (which Ed didn't really have despite the Milifan effort - I never met a really fervent Ed fan, though lots who thought he was better than depicted). Let's see what the National Equivalent Vote calculation shows.

    Don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying we're on course for anything but a Tory win on current figures. But the talk of Labour meltdown/collapse is overspun.
    What do you think Corbyn will do once Labour loses, if it is with a heavy loss but not complete meltdown (i.e. Finishing on 180 seats) - stand down, or soldier on?
    Soldier on, no question about it. He won't go until the hard left can fix future leadership elections.
    I agree that seems the most likely option - i guess the more unpredictable is whether he would win another contest with the membership. Harder to know there. He will have lost a lot of the soft Corbynistas
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Anorak said:

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    Have mid-term locals ever shown a swing toward the government before?
    Yes -in 1959/1960 /1961 / 1982/1983 /1987.
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    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060

    Marcus Wells @MarcusWells_
    DA: "I think the net losses are about 50"
    ITN:"There are actually 125 net losses so far"
    DA: "Last time I looked we had net losses of 100”

    Its so LOL it could actually be true.
    It's a direct transcript of what she said.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Scott_P said:

    @OliverCooper: West Midlands first round:
    Conservatives: 216,253 (42%)
    Labour: 210,259 (41%)
    Lib Dems: 30,378 (6%)
    UKIP: 29,051 (6%)
    Greens: 24,260 (5%)

    Wow that is going to be close, all depends how the Lib dems split (assumeing green to labour and UKIP to tory).
    Looks like a "loser wins" election to me.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Marcus Wells @MarcusWells_
    DA: "I think the net losses are about 50"
    ITN:"There are actually 125 net losses so far"
    DA: "Last time I looked we had net losses of 100”

    Its so LOL it could actually be true.
    It's a direct transcript of what she said.
    I know, its hard to believe she could do it again
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    JonathanD said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    Alistair said:

    Interesting results in the Borders Councils

    @DavidMundellDCT: .@ScotTories top poll and elected at stage 1 in all 11 D&G Wards declared
    This is looking like Holyrood 2016 on crack, there a turnout increase of 5% almost all captured by the SCons, here a turnout increase of 8-10% seemingly captured by the Tories.

    All bets are off (or on) for next month. I have no clue how it will play out but I am glad I have lots of SCon bets.
    How motivated do you think SNP voters are to turn out for the GE? Clearly the Unionists are, do you think Indy voters will have the same enthusiasm?
    No idea.

    One way of looking at this is that Holyrood and especially council elections are low turnout elections where a motivated electorate makes big differences and the effect will simply not be as pronounced at the UK GE.

    the other is that SNP got a boost from an abnormally motivated 20-15 electorate and that unwinding will badly hit them this time round

    The other is that both will occur, that the Con motivation is carry forwardable to the GE plus the SNP vote will be demotivated as a double whammy plus tactical voting means 19 Con seats is a real possibility.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,314
    Are the West Midlands really going to take another 3 1/2 hours to resolve the second preferences?
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2017

    Barnesian said:

    Where will the Kippers go when Mrs May uses her huge majority to support the EU concessions she is going to make to ensure a soft landing for Brexit in the national interest?

    Will there be a resurgent UKIP party? It will be too late to do anything about the large Tory majority for the next five years.

    I can't see how she can improve the strength of the pro-Remain position in the HoC by going for a landslide. The net change in England and Wales will probably be to replace 30-50 or so mainly Remain Labour MPs by 30-50 Tory MPs of whom 45% will be Leavers. Some, good grief, might turn out to be like Bone or Cash.

    The 45% figure is based on the stated views of the existing parliamentary party as of May 2016 when Tory MPs were split 55/45% for Remain. This split excludes MPs who refused to disclose which way they'd vote, e.g. Jesse Norman.
    Tories are no longer 55/45 that was before the Referendum. After the Referendum most Remain voting Tories accepted the result and moved on. They're Leavers now. I could only think of about half a dozen die hard Remain Tories and one of them stepped down this election.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,119
    Pong said:

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    They're turnouts of 20-30% I'm really not convinced a national voteshare projection from these results is meaningful.

    By and large, the voters who voted today will vote again next month. Their votes are likely to distributed in line with ^, with some small variation.

    The voters who didn't vote today, but will vote next month will split quite differently to ^.
    Another (related) reason to be cautious about a comparison with 2015 is that the local elections then were on the same day as the general election. So, for example, the Lib Dem equivalent figure for 2015 is probably significantly lower than it would have been for ordinary local elections.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2017
    Some people on the VoteUK forum seem to be saying that in the West Midlands mayoral election they were told by the officials that they had to vote for a second preference when in fact they don't.
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    PaulMPaulM Posts: 613

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    How do these national vote projections handle the fact that there are no elections in London ?
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    Theory (borrowed, not my own): Conservative figure is their floor, Labour and Lib Dem their ceiling (and in truth, if the Liberal Democrats get anywhere close of 18% at the General Election I'd be utterly astonished.)

    Anyway, regardless of the fact that local elections and general elections are clean different things, the raw figures help their narrative. They make the Coalition of Chaos look plausible.

    Oh, and Tory win in Tees Valley mayoral race just confirmed.
    The theory does not necessarily apply this year. We have to go back to 1955 to find an example of Local Elections taking place after the announcement of a general election.
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    PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 712
    LD 18% is a good result, even if it does mean fewer seats
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    So decent vote share increase for the Lib Dems but awful distribution. Hopefully for the GE the LDs stick to defending and a couple of targets.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    justin124 said:

    Anorak said:

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    Have mid-term locals ever shown a swing toward the government before?
    Yes -in 1959/1960 /1961 / 1982/1983 /1987.
    Do 83 and 87 class as midterm?
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    DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    I think that we are going to have to invent a new numbering system to work alongside "binary" and "base-10" called "Base-Abbott" :smiley:
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    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    PaulM said:

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    How do these national vote projections handle the fact that there are no elections in London ?
    And are they effectively saying there is a 2.5% swing from Lab to Con since 2015; if so this is not landslide territory? And where are all these LibDem votes coming from - they've lost seats?
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Glen O'Hara‏ @gsoh31

    PNS equals an 11% Con-Lab gap. In 1983 locals it was 3%, in 1987 6%. You add in forced choice of PM, #GE2017 *could* be a massacre.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    Have mid-term locals ever shown a swing toward the government before?
    Bit of a stretch to call these "mid-terms" isn't it?
    Ha. Fair point. They were midterms until a few weeks' ago, though.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,261
    PaulM said:

    Sean_F said:

    PaulM said:

    Scott_P said:
    It always amuses me that Labour and Lancashire have the same symbol. When was Lancashire last Tory controlled?
    2009-2013

    I think people are getting carried away with these county results - to me they just seem to have reversed the 2013 elections. Are there any counties where the conservatives have a much better performance than in 2009 ?
    2009 was an extremely good result for the Conservatives.
    I agree Sean, but the topic seemed to be suggesting that there is a sea change afoot, and that parts of the Labour base have transitioned to UKIP and onto the Tories giving unprecedented Conservative support. Whereas the Conservative performance in many council areas seems to be something they have achieved before, namely in 2009.
    That was however Brown's nadir (Labour NEV 23%) from which he managed to claw back to a somewhat better position in the General Election, as governments tend to do. The comparison of an opposition performance of 38%, which fell back, with a government performance of 38% is misleading, particularly when it isn't obvious what is going to improve for the Labour Party in the next few weeks.
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    That +7 for the LDs doesn't seem to have achieved much.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,963
    Disraeli said:

    I think that we are going to have to invent a new numbering system to work alongside "binary" and "base-10" called "Base-Abbott" :smiley:

    Are you sure she isn't just playing numberwang....
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    justin124 said:

    Anorak said:

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    Have mid-term locals ever shown a swing toward the government before?
    Yes -in 1959/1960 /1961 / 1982/1983 /1987.
    Cheers. Impressive knowledge.
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Tees

    con
    gain
    Tees

    amazing.
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited May 2017

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    1983:
    Con 39
    Lab 36
    All 20

    1987:
    Con 38
    Lab 32
    All 27
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    IcarusIcarus Posts: 898
    The Liberal Democrat 18% is very encouraging for the General election. There are 5 weeks to go (5 X a long time)

    In that time Labour will continue to collapse - their candidates denouncing JC will not help.

    The Tories will continue to ask for a blank cheque, the Liberals will look like the only alternative and should pick up support in winnable seats.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    Disraeli said:

    I think that we are going to have to invent a new numbering system to work alongside "binary" and "base-10" called "Base-Abbott" :smiley:

    That would have to be Part III Tripos stuff. :)
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,261
    TudorRose said:

    PaulM said:

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    How do these national vote projections handle the fact that there are no elections in London ?
    And are they effectively saying there is a 2.5% swing from Lab to Con since 2015; if so this is not landslide territory? And where are all these LibDem votes coming from - they've lost seats?
    The LibDems seem to have picked up (presumably remainer) votes across the board, enabling them to recover from the extremely low votes of 2013 in many non-target areas, but this hasn't helped them greatly in target areas, where I guess more remainers stuck with them through the hard times.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TudorRose said:

    PaulM said:

    BBC announces projected national share of the vote:

    Con 38% (+3)
    Lab 27% (-2)
    LD 18% (+7)
    Ukip 5% (-8)
    Other 12% (0)

    Changes since 2015.

    How do these national vote projections handle the fact that there are no elections in London ?
    And are they effectively saying there is a 2.5% swing from Lab to Con since 2015; if so this is not landslide territory? And where are all these LibDem votes coming from - they've lost seats?
    2.5% swing to the government from a majority winning election could lead to a landslide. Lib Dems could be picking back up none of the above protest votes from UKIP where it doesn't matter to the result of the seat.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MichaelCraig96: SNP LOSE MAJORITY ON DUNDEE COUNCIL BY ONE - Tories win 2 seats in final ward

    @britainelects
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    The May 1970 Local Elections were unexpectedly good for Labour , and helped to persuade Harold Wilson to call an election for the following month. The Tory Opposition was able to improve its performance in the latter.
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    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    SeanT said:

    Don't understand. The swing to the Tories is much less than expected, but the Tories are at the high end of expectation in terms of seats won?

    Better distribution? And will this extend to the GE?

    I'd imagine part of the clue to the lower swing is in the Welsh polling. The Tories had a 10 percent lead in GE polling but were 1 or 2 percent behind Labour in the locals.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,814
    SeanT said:

    Don't understand. The swing to the Tories is much less than expected, but the Tories are at the high end of expectation in terms of seats won?

    Better distribution? And will this extend to the GE?

    An 11% lead for a governing party in local elections is huge. It's far better than the Conservatives achieved in 1983 or 1987.

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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    edited May 2017
    SeanT said:

    Don't understand. The swing to the Tories is much less than expected, but the Tories are at the high end of expectation in terms of seats won?

    Better distribution? And will this extend to the GE?

    I think we're all in danger of comparing apples with oranges. Low turnout, not voting for national government, etc, make these elections a somewhat different entity to the GE. I think the results will be far worse for Labour than these results when the serious business of choosing a national government and a PM are at the forefront of people's minds, and not local bin collections.
This discussion has been closed.