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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » GE2017 sees a changed political geography with 3 new regions

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  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    On topic, superb from his Lordship.

    We need more posts from peers. Stage one of this process will be making you a peer. :D
    I could accept the red robes on TSE .... but dear god NOT red shoes !!!!!!!

    One should also consider the effect of diluting the quality of the PB nobility .... :naughty:
    Don't worry, I'm only proposing he be elevated to a Barony. The hereditary dukedom is for our right trusty and dearly beloved JohnO.
    No peerage for me, I just want to be a Knight Grand Cross of The Order of Saint Michael and Saint George.

    Is a knighthood but comes with the post nominal GCMG, which stands for God Calls Me God.

    I hinted I would accept such an honour in Dave's resignation honours but I was told I'd have to wait until George Osborne became Prime Minister.
    Why not both :):D
    I'm an elitist. Seems like everyone's got a peerage, even Jeffery Archer.

    So few have a GCMG.
    Over 70 have a GCMG .....

    KG or KT however ....
    How many have CH? Asking for a friend.
    Friend .... 65 + HM and honorary Johnny Foreigners.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,691

    FF43 said:

    stodge said:

    Cookie said:

    <
    Can't disagree with either of you there really. But I'd also argue that when you get LDs in unwinnable seats taking this stance, under present circumstances, it harms the prospects of LDs in winnable seats. I don't think, strategically, it's very bright.

    With Jeremy Corbyn in power, the LDs had a once-in-a-generation opportunity to become the main party of the left - a necessary first step to being the main party of government, which is presumably a long-term ambition. I don't think it's an opportunity their grasping very cleverly.

    The first paragraph is entirely fair and I can't argue with it.

    As for the second, given the pounding the Party took in 2015, it's unrealistic to expect, barely two years later, the Party to be in a position to supplant Labour.

    Back in 1981 which is the other obvious parallel, it took the schism within Labour to create the opportunity for a "new" party to come through. IF a new Party is formed after the GE, it needs to be in a position to attract disillusioned Conservatives when (not, if) the May Government hits its midterm.

    Whether the Liberals alone could have prospered to the degree the eventual Alliance did seems unlikely.



    There is a place in the UK for a globalist, open society, socially liberal, pro-business party that takes similar positions to those of Tony Blair or David Cameron in their governments. Almost Gladstonian liberalism.
    Perhaps there is, but it will inevitably be a minority position. Blair and Cameron managed to form governments only because the bulk of their parties remained loyal to their leaders despite not necessarily agreeing with what they said.
    Initially a minority position, yes. Your aim is to get to the main stream. It doesn't often happen, but it can - most recently with the SNP in Scotland. The interesting thing is how much ground the two main parties have abandoned in the past couple of years. I wouldn't say the Conservative Party is even that pro-business these days.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    On topic, superb from his Lordship.

    We need more posts from peers. Stage one of this process will be making you a peer. :D
    I could accept the red robes on TSE .... but dear god NOT red shoes !!!!!!!

    One should also consider the effect of diluting the quality of the PB nobility .... :naughty:
    Don't worry, I'm only proposing he be elevated to a Barony. The hereditary dukedom is for our right trusty and dearly beloved JohnO.
    No peerage for me, I just want to be a Knight Grand Cross of The Order of Saint Michael and Saint George.

    Is a knighthood but comes with the post nominal GCMG, which stands for God Calls Me God.

    I hinted I would accept such an honour in Dave's resignation honours but I was told I'd have to wait until George Osborne became Prime Minister.
    Why not both :):D
    I'm an elitist. Seems like everyone's got a peerage, even Jeffery Archer.

    So few have a GCMG.
    Over 70 have a GCMG .....

    KG or KT however ....
    How many have CH? Asking for a friend.
    You don't have any friends? This is probably not a good place to ask for any :wink:
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,280

    RobD said:

    I assume the NHS keep backups? Seems like in a situation like this better to nuke the whole thing and load from a clean copy.

    The I.T. Crowd ruined my expectations about I.T. staff and their departments.
    Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
    What display ?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Tim_B said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    On topic, superb from his Lordship.

    We need more posts from peers. Stage one of this process will be making you a peer. :D
    I could accept the red robes on TSE .... but dear god NOT red shoes !!!!!!!

    One should also consider the effect of diluting the quality of the PB nobility .... :naughty:
    Don't worry, I'm only proposing he be elevated to a Barony. The hereditary dukedom is for our right trusty and dearly beloved JohnO.
    No peerage for me, I just want to be a Knight Grand Cross of The Order of Saint Michael and Saint George.

    Is a knighthood but comes with the post nominal GCMG, which stands for God Calls Me God.

    I hinted I would accept such an honour in Dave's resignation honours but I was told I'd have to wait until George Osborne became Prime Minister.
    Why not both :):D
    I'm an elitist. Seems like everyone's got a peerage, even Jeffery Archer.

    So few have a GCMG.
    Over 70 have a GCMG .....

    KG or KT however ....
    How many have CH? Asking for a friend.
    You don't have any friends? This is probably not a good place to ask for any :wink:
    Oh you!
  • Options
    PaulyPauly Posts: 897

    RobD said:

    I assume the NHS keep backups? Seems like in a situation like this better to nuke the whole thing and load from a clean copy.

    The I.T. Crowd ruined my expectations about I.T. staff and their departments.
    Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
    What display ?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWJIQm9qH-w
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    On topic, superb from his Lordship.

    We need more posts from peers. Stage one of this process will be making you a peer. :D
    I could accept the red robes on TSE .... but dear god NOT red shoes !!!!!!!

    One should also consider the effect of diluting the quality of the PB nobility .... :naughty:
    Don't worry, I'm only proposing he be elevated to a Barony. The hereditary dukedom is for our right trusty and dearly beloved JohnO.
    No peerage for me, I just want to be a Knight Grand Cross of The Order of Saint Michael and Saint George.

    Is a knighthood but comes with the post nominal GCMG, which stands for God Calls Me God.

    I hinted I would accept such an honour in Dave's resignation honours but I was told I'd have to wait until George Osborne became Prime Minister.
    Why not both :):D
    I'm an elitist. Seems like everyone's got a peerage, even Jeffery Archer.

    So few have a GCMG.
    Over 70 have a GCMG .....

    KG or KT however ....
    OM's the last respectable honour. The others are debased.
    That's the one entirely in the gift of HM, right?
    Yes. The others are just bling.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    RobD said:

    That's the one entirely in the gift of HM, right?

    No.

    KG, KT and the RVO

  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    I assume the NHS keep backups? Seems like in a situation like this better to nuke the whole thing and load from a clean copy.

    Correct. Desktops should have nothing important on them, servers for files, mail and databases should be backed up to tape and able to be restored within a few hours with little loss.

    IF (and it's a bloody massive IF) the backups are actually working, regularly tested and ready to go. For too many organisations in this scenario that isn't the case and they find the easiest way to deal with the ransomware is to pay the ransom. This just encourages the c**** to keep doing it.
    The problem is what you do in the meantime, if you have a weekend of not being able to record electronically
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    FF43 said:

    stodge said:

    Cookie said:

    <
    Can't disagree with either of you there really. But I'd also argue that when you get LDs in unwinnable seats taking this stance, under present circumstances, it harms the prospects of LDs in winnable seats. I don't think, strategically, it's very bright.

    With Jeremy Corbyn in power, the LDs had a once-in-a-generation opportunity to become the main party of the left - a necessary first step to being the main party of government, which is presumably a long-term ambition. I don't think it's an opportunity their grasping very cleverly.

    The first paragraph is entirely fair and I can't argue with it.

    As for the second, given the pounding the Party took in 2015, it's unrealistic to expect, barely two years later, the Party to be in a position to supplant Labour.

    Back in 1981 which is the other obvious parallel, it took the schism within Labour to create the opportunity for a "new" party to come through. IF a new Party is formed after the GE, it needs to be in a position to attract disillusioned Conservatives when (not, if) the May Government hits its midterm.

    Whether the Liberals alone could have prospered to the degree the eventual Alliance did seems unlikely.



    There is a place in the UK for a globalist, open society, socially liberal, pro-business party that takes similar positions to those of Tony Blair or David Cameron in their governments. Almost Gladstonian liberalism. That isn't the Lib Dems in their current form. Equally there isn't a party in the UK right now which occupies that space. The Lib Dems would seem the obvious party to do so, but they would need to transform themselves. Disruption is uncomfortable.

    (If you could change Pro-Business to Pro-Free enterprise, it would be more accurate IMHO)


    I agree there is a place, and I would love to join such a party and give my all to getting it some power, and I'm still hopeful that the LD will some day become that party again.

    For the moment the LibDems obsession with the EU is not letting that happen, and is putting off people like me, and I would include others like Douglass Carswell and Dan Hannan, who both fit the description you describe.

    For the moment the people running the Lib Dems are just as obsess with Identity Politics, and 'nationalism' as the rest, its just that the nation they identify with is called the EU.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Tim_B said:

    You don't have any friends? This is probably not a good place to ask for any :wink:

    Hey Tim

    Since you're here, not sure you saw this...

    http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/article-1/The-Force-Is-Strong-With-This-Eagles-Fan/db28cd7d-6303-41b0-9a56-53d3ac128c39
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,280
    Pauly said:

    RobD said:

    I assume the NHS keep backups? Seems like in a situation like this better to nuke the whole thing and load from a clean copy.

    The I.T. Crowd ruined my expectations about I.T. staff and their departments.
    Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
    What display ?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWJIQm9qH-w
    Cheers
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Annette1Hardy: Eddie Mair pulls out a Corbyn quote: the Falklands War was a “Tory plot to keep their money-making friends in business.” #bbcpm #GE17
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,839
    glw said:

    Sky news just had a cyber security guy on who said some nhs trusts are spending as little as £20k a year on cyber security ie one poorly qualified IT person .

    What fraction of NHS computers are running an outdated version of Windows*? I would guess at in excess of 50%. Just from eyeballing it when I hospitals I see a lot of what looks like XP running, and PCs left unlocked, and users apparently sharing accounts.

    * Before anyone says it, I know Microsoft still offers patches all the way back to XP for paying customers, but the security architecture of XP is miles behind Vista or Windows 7, which in turn are far behind Windows 8 or 10. I personally wouldn't run anything older than Windows 10.
    Plenty of W7 around, it's still the corporate gold standard for new rollouts today and is fine if set up properly. XP is well out of date now, but a lot of old business software still can't run on anything newer. There are ways around this using technology like virtual machines and Citrix application virtualisation, but it's a big problem for any organisation. See my earlier comment about government IT generally being obsolete before it's even delivered.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited May 2017
    Here's a little EDM that Jezza signed

    JOHN PILGER AND KOSOVO

    Session: 2004-05
    Date tabled: 14.12.2004
    Primary sponsor: Smith, Llew
    Sponsors:
    That this House welcomes John Pilger's column for the New Statesman issue of 13th December, reminding readers of the devastating human cost of the so-termed 'humanitarian' invasion of Kosovo, led by NATO and the United States in the Spring of 1999, without any sanction of the United Nations Security Council; congratulates John Pilger on his expose of the fraudulent justifications for intervening in a 'genocide' that never really existed in Kosovo; recalls President Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen claimed, entirely without foundation, that 'we've now seen about 100,000 military-aged [Albanian] men missing.....they may have been murdered' and that David Scheffer, the US ambassador-at-large for war crimes, announced with equal inaccuracy that as many as '225,000 ethnic Albanian men aged between 14 and 59' may have been killed; recalls that the leader of a Spanish forensic team sent to Kosovo returned home, complaining angrily that he and his colleagues had become part of 'a semantic pirouette by the war propaganda machines, because we did not find one mass grave'; further recalls that one year later, the International War Crimes Tribunal, a body de facto set up by NATO, announced that the final count of bodies found in Kosovo's 'mass graves' was 2,788; believes the pollution impact of the bombing of Kosovo is still emerging, including the impact of the use of depleted uranium munitions; and calls on the Government to provide full assistance in the clean up of Kosovo.
    https://www.parliament.uk/edm/2004-05/392
  • Options
    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Britain today summed up in one sentence
    Don't attend accident and emergency unless it's an emergency.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Scott_P said:

    @Annette1Hardy: Eddie Mair pulls out a Corbyn quote: the Falklands War was a “Tory plot to keep their money-making friends in business.” #bbcpm #GE17

    Why are the BBC using CCHQ embargoed attack lines, that one's not to be used til June 1st.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,152
    perdix said:

    chestnut said:

    When is an attack on the NHS not an attack on the NHS?

    https://digital.nhs.uk/article/1491/Statement-on-reported-NHS-cyber-attack

    We should:
    1. make every effort to identify the attackers.
    2. make every legal effort to bring them to justice.
    3. demand that the host nation(s) take action.
    4. reserve the right to respond by force against the attackers.

    Well, it's saved Corbyn from having his foreign "policy" views more widely aired on tonight's TV news.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    Scott_P said:

    @Annette1Hardy: Eddie Mair pulls out a Corbyn quote: the Falklands War was a “Tory plot to keep their money-making friends in business.” #bbcpm #GE17

    Don't forget that quoting Corbyn is a smear.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    Sandpit said:

    Plenty of W7 around, it's still the corporate gold standard for new rollouts today and is fine if set up properly. XP is well out of date now, but a lot of old business software still can't run on anything newer. There are ways around this using technology like virtual machines and Citrix application virtualisation, but it's a big problem for any organisation. See my earlier comment about government IT generally being obsolete before it's even delivered.

    Even 7 is quite outdated, it's an 8 year old operating system with the guts of a 10 year old one. Miles better than XP but not as good as 8 and 10.

    It's criminal to run stuff on XP if it can be virtualised, about the only good reason to keep running XP is if it is hardware related, say you have an expensive card or peripheral and there are no newer drivers.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,209
    Scott_P said:

    @Annette1Hardy: Eddie Mair pulls out a Corbyn quote: the Falklands War was a “Tory plot to keep their money-making friends in business.” #bbcpm #GE17

    Much as I dislike Mair and his co-irritant Paddy O'Connell that is a cracking quote.

    And the Cons haven't even started yet.

    Let's have cyan or Justin123 here now telling us that we should be focusing on fox hunting.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821
    Are @theresa_may and @Jeremy_Hunt going to explain why the @NHS is still using a vulnerable 2001 OS that is long out of official support?

    Presumably Jezzas fault.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    glw said:

    Sky news just had a cyber security guy on who said some nhs trusts are spending as little as £20k a year on cyber security ie one poorly qualified IT person .

    What fraction of NHS computers are running an outdated version of Windows*? I would guess at in excess of 50%. Just from eyeballing it when I hospitals I see a lot of what looks like XP running, and PCs left unlocked, and users apparently sharing accounts.

    * Before anyone says it, I know Microsoft still offers patches all the way back to XP for paying customers, but the security architecture of XP is miles behind Vista or Windows 7, which in turn are far behind Windows 8 or 10. I personally wouldn't run anything older than Windows 10.
    For this sort of ransomware, the OS is less important than how it got onto the system in the first place which was probably someone clicking a link in a phishing email. The bad guys have changed tack recently.
  • Options
    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    There was a Labour MP on 5 live this morning trying to defend Corbyn's defence strategy.

    Anyone who believes that Corbyn is not a pacifist needs help.

    40 years of quotes says otherwise...now with a few weeks to a GE he has had a road to Damascus conversion...about as believable as him supporting Remain in the Brexit vote.
    I wouldn't want the job of selling it, but I don't think Corbyn's position has ever been pacifist and compared to what we have had since the world war, I think it probably is an improvement. The trouble is that people never think about defence rationally. ( I am a person too so I include myself.) But there are very few wars in history that don't turn out in retrospect to have been a bad idea. Unfortunately THE war we all remember is an exception.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077

    glw said:

    Sky news just had a cyber security guy on who said some nhs trusts are spending as little as £20k a year on cyber security ie one poorly qualified IT person .

    What fraction of NHS computers are running an outdated version of Windows*? I would guess at in excess of 50%. Just from eyeballing it when I hospitals I see a lot of what looks like XP running, and PCs left unlocked, and users apparently sharing accounts.

    * Before anyone says it, I know Microsoft still offers patches all the way back to XP for paying customers, but the security architecture of XP is miles behind Vista or Windows 7, which in turn are far behind Windows 8 or 10. I personally wouldn't run anything older than Windows 10.
    For this sort of ransomware, the OS is less important than how it got onto the system in the first place which was probably someone clicking a link in a phishing email. The bad guys have changed tack recently.
    Supposedly Microsoft have fixed the exploit but obviously NHS IT have not applied it everywhere.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,209

    glw said:

    Sky news just had a cyber security guy on who said some nhs trusts are spending as little as £20k a year on cyber security ie one poorly qualified IT person .

    What fraction of NHS computers are running an outdated version of Windows*? I would guess at in excess of 50%. Just from eyeballing it when I hospitals I see a lot of what looks like XP running, and PCs left unlocked, and users apparently sharing accounts.

    * Before anyone says it, I know Microsoft still offers patches all the way back to XP for paying customers, but the security architecture of XP is miles behind Vista or Windows 7, which in turn are far behind Windows 8 or 10. I personally wouldn't run anything older than Windows 10.
    For this sort of ransomware, the OS is less important than how it got onto the system in the first place which was probably someone clicking a link in a phishing email. The bad guys have changed tack recently.
    If it's ransomware (new word for me) what do they want?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    As I understand it, some treatment systems (radiography for example) run on XP , the vendor has not updated the system, and they are not allowed to patch in case it breaks anything
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    TOPPING said:

    glw said:

    Sky news just had a cyber security guy on who said some nhs trusts are spending as little as £20k a year on cyber security ie one poorly qualified IT person .

    What fraction of NHS computers are running an outdated version of Windows*? I would guess at in excess of 50%. Just from eyeballing it when I hospitals I see a lot of what looks like XP running, and PCs left unlocked, and users apparently sharing accounts.

    * Before anyone says it, I know Microsoft still offers patches all the way back to XP for paying customers, but the security architecture of XP is miles behind Vista or Windows 7, which in turn are far behind Windows 8 or 10. I personally wouldn't run anything older than Windows 10.
    For this sort of ransomware, the OS is less important than how it got onto the system in the first place which was probably someone clicking a link in a phishing email. The bad guys have changed tack recently.
    If it's ransomware (new word for me) what do they want?
    Money. Specifically bitcoins.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Supposedly Microsoft have fixed the exploit but obviously NHS IT have not applied it everywhere.

    Microsoft issued an urgent patch, but there is also an Intel problem (although that affects newer machines, so might not be in play here)
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    glw said:

    Sky news just had a cyber security guy on who said some nhs trusts are spending as little as £20k a year on cyber security ie one poorly qualified IT person .

    What fraction of NHS computers are running an outdated version of Windows*? I would guess at in excess of 50%. Just from eyeballing it when I hospitals I see a lot of what looks like XP running, and PCs left unlocked, and users apparently sharing accounts.

    * Before anyone says it, I know Microsoft still offers patches all the way back to XP for paying customers, but the security architecture of XP is miles behind Vista or Windows 7, which in turn are far behind Windows 8 or 10. I personally wouldn't run anything older than Windows 10.
    For this sort of ransomware, the OS is less important than how it got onto the system in the first place which was probably someone clicking a link in a phishing email. The bad guys have changed tack recently.
    A lot of our computers are on XP or 7. They are up to 10 years old and need hardware jpgrades to work software.

    No internet, email or booking system working at present, but maybe just our IT quarantining everything.

    It is going to be a big incident. Real risk to patients.
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    LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    I have just heard Iain Dale on LBC say that events like this hacking could possibly turn the GE in Labour's favour. These bloody people, it's all about creating a cheap headline.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    perdix said:

    chestnut said:

    When is an attack on the NHS not an attack on the NHS?

    https://digital.nhs.uk/article/1491/Statement-on-reported-NHS-cyber-attack

    We should:
    1. make every effort to identify the attackers.
    2. make every legal effort to bring them to justice.
    3. demand that the host nation(s) take action.
    4. reserve the right to respond by force against the attackers.

    Jeremy Corbyn's just been on and wonders whether it might be a tad OTT to start a shooting war against a nuclear power over a £500 ransomware attack. The hackers could be French, you see.

    Have a look at Verizon's 2017 DBIR (data breach investigation report -- compiled from many sources including the US and European governments aiui). You do not need to register -- select download only.
    http://www.verizonenterprise.com/resources/reports/rp_data-breach-digest-2017-perspective-is-reality_xg_en.pdf

  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I have just heard Iain Dale on LBC say that events like this hacking could possibly turn the GE in Labour's favour.

    How?

    You want the most incompetent political operation in living memory to sort out life critical IT issues?

    And IIRC, the NHS IT outsource that went hideously wrong pre-dates the Tories in power
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,839
    Freggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    I assume the NHS keep backups? Seems like in a situation like this better to nuke the whole thing and load from a clean copy.

    Correct. Desktops should have nothing important on them, servers for files, mail and databases should be backed up to tape and able to be restored within a few hours with little loss.

    IF (and it's a bloody massive IF) the backups are actually working, regularly tested and ready to go. For too many organisations in this scenario that isn't the case and they find the easiest way to deal with the ransomware is to pay the ransom. This just encourages the c**** to keep doing it.
    The problem is what you do in the meantime, if you have a weekend of not being able to record electronically
    A good IT team should be able to do the primary recovery of servers in a couple of hours, then start on the desktops in order of priority. If they're well prepared it should all be back up again overnight with not a lot of sleep involved. If they can't to that they should be collecting P45s on Monday morning.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    I have just heard Iain Dale on LBC say that events like this hacking could possibly turn the GE in Labour's favour. These bloody people, it's all about creating a cheap headline.

    LOL, you could sink the south of England and it wouldn't turn this in Labour's favour.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited May 2017
    Dr Mils Hills, who is an associate professor of risk, resilience and corporate security at the University of Northampton, has told the BBC the cyber attack on the NHS "could have been prevented".

    "It's most certainly going to have come from a user clicking something they shouldn't have, whether it's in an email or on an internet browser tab," he said.

    "Hospitals should have measures to prevent this.

    "It will be fixed and removed, but it will cost a lot. The task to fix it won't be difficult, but will be time-consuming.

    "The problem is this is a pretty low-level attack and it's causing such chaos."
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,209
    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    glw said:

    Sky news just had a cyber security guy on who said some nhs trusts are spending as little as £20k a year on cyber security ie one poorly qualified IT person .

    What fraction of NHS computers are running an outdated version of Windows*? I would guess at in excess of 50%. Just from eyeballing it when I hospitals I see a lot of what looks like XP running, and PCs left unlocked, and users apparently sharing accounts.

    * Before anyone says it, I know Microsoft still offers patches all the way back to XP for paying customers, but the security architecture of XP is miles behind Vista or Windows 7, which in turn are far behind Windows 8 or 10. I personally wouldn't run anything older than Windows 10.
    For this sort of ransomware, the OS is less important than how it got onto the system in the first place which was probably someone clicking a link in a phishing email. The bad guys have changed tack recently.
    If it's ransomware (new word for me) what do they want?
    Money. Specifically bitcoins.
    thx
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Sky news just had a cyber security guy on who said some nhs trusts are spending as little as £20k a year on cyber security ie one poorly qualified IT person .

    I doubt the completeness of figures like that. That's probably not counting any wages for instance which is probably accounted for elsewhere in the budget. £20k including wages and £20k excluding wages are two very different things.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,152
    Sandpit said:

    Freggles said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    I assume the NHS keep backups? Seems like in a situation like this better to nuke the whole thing and load from a clean copy.

    Correct. Desktops should have nothing important on them, servers for files, mail and databases should be backed up to tape and able to be restored within a few hours with little loss.

    IF (and it's a bloody massive IF) the backups are actually working, regularly tested and ready to go. For too many organisations in this scenario that isn't the case and they find the easiest way to deal with the ransomware is to pay the ransom. This just encourages the c**** to keep doing it.
    The problem is what you do in the meantime, if you have a weekend of not being able to record electronically
    A good IT team should be able to do the primary recovery of servers in a couple of hours, then start on the desktops in order of priority. If they're well prepared it should all be back up again overnight with not a lot of sleep involved. If they can't to that they should be collecting P45s on Monday morning.
    This weekend we find out how good NHS IT back-up date planning is.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    NHS attack 'could have been prevented', says security expert
    Adam Jinkerson
    BBC Local Live
    Posted at 17:54
    Dr Mils Hills, who is an associate professor of risk, resilience and corporate security at the University of Northampton, has told the BBC the cyber attack on the NHS "could have been prevented".

    "It's most certainly going to have come from a user clicking something they shouldn't have, whether it's in an email or on an internet browser tab," he said.

    "Hospitals should have measures to prevent this.

    "It will be fixed and removed, but it will cost a lot. The task to fix it won't be difficult, but will be time-consuming.

    "The problem is this is a pretty low-level attack and it's causing such chaos."

    Yeah, could have been prevented if someone hadn't clicked on something. What a genius.
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Scott_P said:

    @Annette1Hardy: Eddie Mair pulls out a Corbyn quote: the Falklands War was a “Tory plot to keep their money-making friends in business.” #bbcpm #GE17

    There's something distasteful about taking a sledgehammer to the nutcase Corbyn. I can't wait for this electoral campaign to end.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    RobD said:

    NHS attack 'could have been prevented', says security expert
    Adam Jinkerson
    BBC Local Live
    Posted at 17:54
    Dr Mils Hills, who is an associate professor of risk, resilience and corporate security at the University of Northampton, has told the BBC the cyber attack on the NHS "could have been prevented".

    "It's most certainly going to have come from a user clicking something they shouldn't have, whether it's in an email or on an internet browser tab," he said.

    "Hospitals should have measures to prevent this.

    "It will be fixed and removed, but it will cost a lot. The task to fix it won't be difficult, but will be time-consuming.

    "The problem is this is a pretty low-level attack and it's causing such chaos."

    Yeah, could have been prevented if someone hadn't clicked on something. What a genius.
    Might be why he works at university of northampton ;-)
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    perdix said:

    chestnut said:

    When is an attack on the NHS not an attack on the NHS?

    https://digital.nhs.uk/article/1491/Statement-on-reported-NHS-cyber-attack

    We should:
    1. make every effort to identify the attackers.
    2. make every legal effort to bring them to justice.
    3. demand that the host nation(s) take action.
    4. reserve the right to respond by force against the attackers.

    Jeremy Corbyn's just been on and wonders whether it might be a tad OTT to start a shooting war against a nuclear power over a £500 ransomware attack. The hackers could be French, you see.

    Have a look at Verizon's 2017 DBIR (data breach investigation report -- compiled from many sources including the US and European governments aiui). You do not need to register -- select download only.
    http://www.verizonenterprise.com/resources/reports/rp_data-breach-digest-2017-perspective-is-reality_xg_en.pdf
    Prolly exactly what it said in the email which started all this.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,209
    edited May 2017
    Scott_P said:

    I have just heard Iain Dale on LBC say that events like this hacking could possibly turn the GE in Labour's favour.

    How?

    You want the most incompetent political operation in living memory to sort out life critical IT issues?

    And IIRC, the NHS IT outsource that went hideously wrong pre-dates the Tories in power
    Because the NHS is transparently obviously not safe in Tory hands and Jezza is going to renationalise everything including the bits of the NHS that Labour opened up to private competition/outsourcing, and the NHS will thereafter flourish in the safety of the mother's womb that is a Labour government.

    Is how.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,152
    RobD said:

    NHS attack 'could have been prevented', says security expert
    Adam Jinkerson
    BBC Local Live
    Posted at 17:54
    Dr Mils Hills, who is an associate professor of risk, resilience and corporate security at the University of Northampton, has told the BBC the cyber attack on the NHS "could have been prevented".

    "It's most certainly going to have come from a user clicking something they shouldn't have, whether it's in an email or on an internet browser tab," he said.

    "Hospitals should have measures to prevent this.

    "It will be fixed and removed, but it will cost a lot. The task to fix it won't be difficult, but will be time-consuming.

    "The problem is this is a pretty low-level attack and it's causing such chaos."

    Yeah, could have been prevented if someone hadn't clicked on something. What a genius.
    Real-time virus scanning should have picked up the ransomware trojan when the use clicked on it surely?
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    edited May 2017
    ***joke***

    On the NHS cyber attack, I see no trusts in Wales have been hacked. Do they have computers there?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    tlg86 said:

    ***joke***

    On the NHS cyber attack, I see no trusts in Wales have been hacked. Do they have computers there?

    :smile:
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,839

    glw said:

    Sky news just had a cyber security guy on who said some nhs trusts are spending as little as £20k a year on cyber security ie one poorly qualified IT person .

    What fraction of NHS computers are running an outdated version of Windows*? I would guess at in excess of 50%. Just from eyeballing it when I hospitals I see a lot of what looks like XP running, and PCs left unlocked, and users apparently sharing accounts.

    * Before anyone says it, I know Microsoft still offers patches all the way back to XP for paying customers, but the security architecture of XP is miles behind Vista or Windows 7, which in turn are far behind Windows 8 or 10. I personally wouldn't run anything older than Windows 10.
    For this sort of ransomware, the OS is less important than how it got onto the system in the first place which was probably someone clicking a link in a phishing email. The bad guys have changed tack recently.
    A lot of our computers are on XP or 7. They are up to 10 years old and need hardware jpgrades to work software.

    No internet, email or booking system working at present, but maybe just our IT quarantining everything.

    It is going to be a big incident. Real risk to patients.
    Good luck, and hope that your IT team are the well trained and prepared professionals they should be. Hopefully they can get things back running quickly and with minimal disruption to the clinical side of things.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,152
    tlg86 said:

    ***joke***

    On the NHS cyber attack, I see no trusts in Wales have been hacked. Do they have computers there?

    The e-mail trojan wasn't available in a Welsh language option.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    NHS attack 'could have been prevented', says security expert
    Adam Jinkerson
    BBC Local Live
    Posted at 17:54
    Dr Mils Hills, who is an associate professor of risk, resilience and corporate security at the University of Northampton, has told the BBC the cyber attack on the NHS "could have been prevented".

    "It's most certainly going to have come from a user clicking something they shouldn't have, whether it's in an email or on an internet browser tab," he said.

    "Hospitals should have measures to prevent this.

    "It will be fixed and removed, but it will cost a lot. The task to fix it won't be difficult, but will be time-consuming.

    "The problem is this is a pretty low-level attack and it's causing such chaos."

    Yeah, could have been prevented if someone hadn't clicked on something. What a genius.
    Might be why he works at university of northampton ;-)
    What measures is he proposing? People not being able to click on things? :smiley:
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,209
    The heart will say Lab is the only party which wants to look after the NHS. The head will say the Cons is the only party competent enough to look after the NHS.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    I know Ed miliband said he wanted to weaponize the nhs but this is a bit extreme....
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    RobD said:

    What measures is he proposing? People not being able to click on things? :smiley:

    We have implemented that...

    It transpired that some people were using domain controllers to check their email.

    This is a bad idea that leads to bad things.

    So now they can't. There are other systems with similar restrictions in place, now.
  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    NHS attack 'could have been prevented', says security expert
    Adam Jinkerson
    BBC Local Live
    Posted at 17:54
    Dr Mils Hills, who is an associate professor of risk, resilience and corporate security at the University of Northampton, has told the BBC the cyber attack on the NHS "could have been prevented".

    "It's most certainly going to have come from a user clicking something they shouldn't have, whether it's in an email or on an internet browser tab," he said.

    "Hospitals should have measures to prevent this.

    "It will be fixed and removed, but it will cost a lot. The task to fix it won't be difficult, but will be time-consuming.

    "The problem is this is a pretty low-level attack and it's causing such chaos."

    Yeah, could have been prevented if someone hadn't clicked on something. What a genius.
    Might be why he works at university of northampton ;-)
    What measures is he proposing? People not being able to click on things? :smiley:
    I don't work in IT but all the IT professionals I've ever worked with start from the assumption that users will click on things they shouldn't and plan accordingly.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Scott_P said:

    RobD said:

    What measures is he proposing? People not being able to click on things? :smiley:

    We have implemented that...

    It transpired that some people were using domain controllers to check their email.

    This is a bad idea that leads to bad things.

    So now they can't. There are other systems with similar restrictions in place, now.
    I understood some of those words :)
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited May 2017
    A cancer in the labour party...This guy gets the full house, anti queen, anti national anthem , anti army, anti help for heroes and of course anti-Semitic / Zionist stuff.

    https://order-order.com/2017/05/12/top-new-corbyn-aide-mocked-queen-army-national-anthem/
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,691
    BigRich said:

    FF43 said:

    stodge said:

    Cookie said:

    <
    Can't disagree with either of you there really. But I'd also argue that when you get LDs in unwinnable seats taking this stance, under present circumstances, it harms the prospects of LDs in winnable seats. I don't think, strategically, it's very bright.

    With Jeremy Corbyn in power, the LDs had a once-in-a-generation opportunity to become the main party of the left - a necessary first step to being the main party of government, which is presumably a long-term ambition. I don't think it's an opportunity their grasping very cleverly.

    The first paragraph is entirely fair and I can't argue with it.

    As for the second, given the pounding the Party took in 2015, it's unrealistic to expect, barely two years later, the Party to be in a position to supplant Labour.

    Back in 1981 which is the other obvious parallel, it took the schism within Labour to create the opportunity for a "new" party to come through. IF a new Party is formed after the GE, it needs to be in a position to attract disillusioned Conservatives when (not, if) the May Government hits its midterm.

    Whether the Liberals alone could have prospered to the degree the eventual Alliance did seems unlikely.



    There is a place in the UK for a globalist, open society, socially liberal, pro-business party that takes similar positions to those of Tony Blair or David Cameron in their governments. Almost Gladstonian liberalism. That isn't the Lib Dems in their current form. Equally there isn't a party in the UK right now which occupies that space. The Lib Dems would seem the obvious party to do so, but they would need to transform themselves. Disruption is uncomfortable.

    (If you could change Pro-Business to Pro-Free enterprise, it would be more accurate IMHO)


    I agree there is a place, and I would love to join such a party and give my all to getting it some power, and I'm still hopeful that the LD will some day become that party again.

    For the moment the LibDems obsession with the EU is not letting that happen, and is putting off people like me, and I would include others like Douglass Carswell and Dan Hannan, who both fit the description you describe.

    For the moment the people running the Lib Dems are just as obsess with Identity Politics, and 'nationalism' as the rest, its just that the nation they identify with is called the EU.
    To the extent Brexit is bad for business, there's an opportunity for the Lib Dems or another party to be the advocates of closer relationships with the EU, without necessarily rerunning the referendum. At the moment they are too worried about what Leave voting Lib Dems night think to take that opportunity and so end up indistinguishable from the other parties. That's not a great position for a minority party with ambitions.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    NHS attack 'could have been prevented', says security expert
    Adam Jinkerson
    BBC Local Live
    Posted at 17:54
    Dr Mils Hills, who is an associate professor of risk, resilience and corporate security at the University of Northampton, has told the BBC the cyber attack on the NHS "could have been prevented".

    "It's most certainly going to have come from a user clicking something they shouldn't have, whether it's in an email or on an internet browser tab," he said.

    "Hospitals should have measures to prevent this.

    "It will be fixed and removed, but it will cost a lot. The task to fix it won't be difficult, but will be time-consuming.

    "The problem is this is a pretty low-level attack and it's causing such chaos."

    Yeah, could have been prevented if someone hadn't clicked on something. What a genius.
    Might be why he works at university of northampton ;-)
    What measures is he proposing? People not being able to click on things? :smiley:
    Pretty much yes! How about people not having access to internet or email on critical machines? Can't click on a dodgy link if you're not able to get to the dodgy links.

    Where I used to work business-critical functions operated in a hermetically sealed bubble. It was frustrating but it worked.

    Machines that are critical to running the operations of A&E should be fully firewalled and not used to play candy crush saga or able to go to whatever dodgy link got the infection.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    RobD said:

    What measures is he proposing? People not being able to click on things? :smiley:

    We have implemented that...

    It transpired that some people were using domain controllers to check their email.

    This is a bad idea that leads to bad things.

    So now they can't. There are other systems with similar restrictions in place, now.
    I understood some of those words :)
    He's not a suitable friend candidate for you. His NFL loyalties are problematic :wink:
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    Well, it's saved Corbyn from having his foreign "policy" views more widely aired on tonight's TV news.

    Build new subs and nukes, but never under any circumstances use them. Totally bonkers, de facto unilateral disarmament without any cost saving.
  • Options
    scotslassscotslass Posts: 912
    MonikerDiCanio

    Please, please, please, will you back against Salmond in Gordon. I can't really back for him now at 1-8 at Hills. This means (as was explained to me in the shop ) that I have to put 8 pounds on to win but ONE!

    However, if you Moniker and other PB Tories put your money where your salavating mouths are then the odds will change and I will be able to add substantially to my pension pot.

    One thing you should know though. On Wednesday night I was canvassing with the Salmond team in Bridge of Don in the outskirts of Aberdeen. I was entrusted with tallying up the canvas cards. The scores on the boards - 57 per cent for Salmond and the rest split between undecideds and the other three parties.

    So Moniker please please get on and make my day.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Ishmael_Z said:

    perdix said:

    chestnut said:

    When is an attack on the NHS not an attack on the NHS?

    https://digital.nhs.uk/article/1491/Statement-on-reported-NHS-cyber-attack

    We should:
    1. make every effort to identify the attackers.
    2. make every legal effort to bring them to justice.
    3. demand that the host nation(s) take action.
    4. reserve the right to respond by force against the attackers.

    Jeremy Corbyn's just been on and wonders whether it might be a tad OTT to start a shooting war against a nuclear power over a £500 ransomware attack. The hackers could be French, you see.

    Have a look at Verizon's 2017 DBIR (data breach investigation report -- compiled from many sources including the US and European governments aiui). You do not need to register -- select download only.
    http://www.verizonenterprise.com/resources/reports/rp_data-breach-digest-2017-perspective-is-reality_xg_en.pdf
    Prolly exactly what it said in the email which started all this.
    Quite possibly.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited May 2017
    Tim_B said:

    He's not a suitable friend candidate for you. His NFL loyalties are problematic :wink:

    I was in Philly recently. I brought my Cowboy supporting neighbour back some Eagles swag :smile:
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    NHS attack 'could have been prevented', says security expert
    Adam Jinkerson
    BBC Local Live
    Posted at 17:54
    Dr Mils Hills, who is an associate professor of risk, resilience and corporate security at the University of Northampton, has told the BBC the cyber attack on the NHS "could have been prevented".

    "It's most certainly going to have come from a user clicking something they shouldn't have, whether it's in an email or on an internet browser tab," he said.

    "Hospitals should have measures to prevent this.

    "It will be fixed and removed, but it will cost a lot. The task to fix it won't be difficult, but will be time-consuming.

    "The problem is this is a pretty low-level attack and it's causing such chaos."

    Yeah, could have been prevented if someone hadn't clicked on something. What a genius.
    Might be why he works at university of northampton ;-)
    What measures is he proposing? People not being able to click on things? :smiley:
    Pretty much yes! How about people not having access to internet or email on critical machines? Can't click on a dodgy link if you're not able to get to the dodgy links.

    Where I used to work business-critical functions operated in a hermetically sealed bubble. It was frustrating but it worked.

    Machines that are critical to running the operations of A&E should be fully firewalled and not used to play candy crush saga or able to go to whatever dodgy link got the infection.
    Yeah, I get that. I was just being a bit cheeky :p
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited May 2017
    glw said:

    Well, it's saved Corbyn from having his foreign "policy" views more widely aired on tonight's TV news.

    Build new subs and nukes, but never under any circumstances use them. Totally bonkers, de facto unilateral disarmament without any cost saving.
    The MoD offices are going to be lovely though and loads of non-jobs where all you have to do all day is consider how to encourage LGBT members of the armed forces to give up smoking..
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @SkyNewsBreak: Sky Sources: around 40 NHS organisations have been affected by the 'ransomware' cyber attack
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited May 2017
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    NHS attack 'could have been prevented', says security expert
    Adam Jinkerson
    BBC Local Live
    Posted at 17:54
    Dr Mils Hills, who is an associate professor of risk, resilience and corporate security at the University of Northampton, has told the BBC the cyber attack on the NHS "could have been prevented".

    "It's most certainly going to have come from a user clicking something they shouldn't have, whether it's in an email or on an internet browser tab," he said.

    "Hospitals should have measures to prevent this.

    "It will be fixed and removed, but it will cost a lot. The task to fix it won't be difficult, but will be time-consuming.

    "The problem is this is a pretty low-level attack and it's causing such chaos."

    Yeah, could have been prevented if someone hadn't clicked on something. What a genius.
    Might be why he works at university of northampton ;-)
    What measures is he proposing? People not being able to click on things? :smiley:
    Pretty much yes! How about people not having access to internet or email on critical machines? Can't click on a dodgy link if you're not able to get to the dodgy links.

    Where I used to work business-critical functions operated in a hermetically sealed bubble. It was frustrating but it worked.

    Machines that are critical to running the operations of A&E should be fully firewalled and not used to play candy crush saga or able to go to whatever dodgy link got the infection.
    Yeah, I get that. I was just being a bit cheeky :p
    LOL I didn't get that. It was funny at my old job how often I found the internet browser (that only worked on the companies internal intranet) left with a URL on a page like Facebook or Gmail etc and an error message that it couldn't find that website. Just because you couldn't get online wouldn't mean people would try and people would get surprisingly annoyed that they were not allowed to get on the internet as if its some human right to check your Facebook on a work computer while working.

    I don't know how it works in the NHS but it wouldn't surprise me if these infected machines allowed people to go onto their emails which allowed in the virus.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,839

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    NHS attack 'could have been prevented', says security expert
    Adam Jinkerson
    BBC Local Live
    Posted at 17:54
    Dr Mils Hills, who is an associate professor of risk, resilience and corporate security at the University of Northampton, has told the BBC the cyber attack on the NHS "could have been prevented".

    "It's most certainly going to have come from a user clicking something they shouldn't have, whether it's in an email or on an internet browser tab," he said.

    "Hospitals should have measures to prevent this.

    "It will be fixed and removed, but it will cost a lot. The task to fix it won't be difficult, but will be time-consuming.

    "The problem is this is a pretty low-level attack and it's causing such chaos."

    Yeah, could have been prevented if someone hadn't clicked on something. What a genius.
    Might be why he works at university of northampton ;-)
    What measures is he proposing? People not being able to click on things? :smiley:
    I don't work in IT but all the IT professionals I've ever worked with start from the assumption that users will click on things they shouldn't and plan accordingly.
    Correct. :)
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040
    F*cking Tory cuts!!
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    I don't work in IT but all the IT professionals I've ever worked with start from the assumption that users will click on things they shouldn't and plan accordingly.

    Users will press ALL the buttons, even when you tell them not to do so.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    murali_s said:

    F*cking Tory cuts!!

    Not cutting enough. If they didn't have computers this wouldn't be an issue.
  • Options
    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Did I see Corbyn reading from a pre-scripted note in answer to a journalist's question on the news? Seriously? And this fella is trying to convince millions of people that he has the intellectual capacity to be a Prime Minister? God's blood, I doubt he could hold his own from gentle quizzing at the Local Allotment Association.

    Unreal.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,839
    Scott_P said:

    RobD said:

    What measures is he proposing? People not being able to click on things? :smiley:

    We have implemented that...

    It transpired that some people were using domain controllers to check their email.

    This is a bad idea that leads to bad things.

    So now they can't. There are other systems with similar restrictions in place, now.
    Using a domain controller to check emails, dear oh dear.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Scott_P said:

    Tim_B said:

    He's not a suitable friend candidate for you. His NFL loyalties are problematic :wink:

    I was in Philly recently. I brought my Cowboy supporting neighbour back some Eagles swag :smile:
    So that's one less friend for you then!

    I used to live near Philly and went to games at The Vet. The hate of the Philly fans was amazing - particularly towards Dallas. What made it worse for them was that Dallas didn't hate them back.

    As you know of course, I am not a fan. If I was I would have worn Dallas attire, and would probably not be here today.

    Dallas plays Atlanta here on Nov 12th. It's Tony Romo's first Dallas game as a commentator on CBS.

    As a matter of interest, the Cowboys have only 2 1pm starts next season. They have at least 5 prime time games, and several will be the second game of double headers. The Boys are back.

    - at least that's what I'm told by a fan.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,123

    Is it just me or does Jon Craig report everything as if it's the greatest travesty of all time, ever?

    I keep looking for the strategically placed teddy bear in his shots.
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    scotslass said:

    MonikerDiCanio

    Please, please, please, will you back against Salmond in Gordon. I can't really back for him now at 1-8 at Hills. This means (as was explained to me in the shop ) that I have to put 8 pounds on to win but ONE!

    However, if you Moniker and other PB Tories put your money where your salavating mouths are then the odds will change and I will be able to add substantially to my pension pot.

    One thing you should know though. On Wednesday night I was canvassing with the Salmond team in Bridge of Don in the outskirts of Aberdeen. I was entrusted with tallying up the canvas cards. The scores on the boards - 57 per cent for Salmond and the rest split between undecideds and the other three parties.

    So Moniker please please get on and make my day.

    So you're worried about backing five-bellies six-pensions Eck. Scotslass, thy name is frailty.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    Sky news just had a cyber security guy on who said some nhs trusts are spending as little as £20k a year on cyber security ie one poorly qualified IT person .

    What fraction of NHS computers are running an outdated version of Windows*? I would guess at in excess of 50%. Just from eyeballing it when I hospitals I see a lot of what looks like XP running, and PCs left unlocked, and users apparently sharing accounts.

    * Before anyone says it, I know Microsoft still offers patches all the way back to XP for paying customers, but the security architecture of XP is miles behind Vista or Windows 7, which in turn are far behind Windows 8 or 10. I personally wouldn't run anything older than Windows 10.
    For this sort of ransomware, the OS is less important than how it got onto the system in the first place which was probably someone clicking a link in a phishing email. The bad guys have changed tack recently.
    A lot of our computers are on XP or 7. They are up to 10 years old and need hardware jpgrades to work software.

    No internet, email or booking system working at present, but maybe just our IT quarantining everything.

    It is going to be a big incident. Real risk to patients.
    Good luck, and hope that your IT team are the well trained and prepared professionals they should be. Hopefully they can get things back running quickly and with minimal disruption to the clinical side of things.
    Apparently in Leicester we do have the malware. Our new Emergency dept is all elecronic.
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited May 2017
    Off topic;

    This is a general attack on older PC's by the look of it.

    A year ago I kinda forced my parents (in their 70's) to replace their "But it still works fine!" windows Vista laptop with something newer and more secure. Very glad I did. They just don't understand the false economy of running obsolete tech - and as they age, their willingness to try new ways of doing things is sadly declining. After a lot of resistance - and a few hiccups - they've got their heads around their new chromebook & ipad.

    Anyway, just to say, it may be worth gently prompting vulnerable friends/relatives still using xp/vista PC's to invest in something more secure.

    Many elderly/vulnerable people using tech are, unfortunately, sitting ducks for the bad guys.
  • Options
    marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    Pulpstar said:

    On the subject of Wales, I'm heading to a caravan about 5 miles north of St Clears in September.
    Are the locals likely to be Plaid or Tories ?

    Tory at last election expected to stay that way but dont go too far next boundary is Plaid
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,839

    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    Sky news just had a cyber security guy on who said some nhs trusts are spending as little as £20k a year on cyber security ie one poorly qualified IT person .

    What fraction of NHS computers are running an outdated version of Windows*? I would guess at in excess of 50%. Just from eyeballing it when I hospitals I see a lot of what looks like XP running, and PCs left unlocked, and users apparently sharing accounts.

    * Before anyone says it, I know Microsoft still offers patches all the way back to XP for paying customers, but the security architecture of XP is miles behind Vista or Windows 7, which in turn are far behind Windows 8 or 10. I personally wouldn't run anything older than Windows 10.
    For this sort of ransomware, the OS is less important than how it got onto the system in the first place which was probably someone clicking a link in a phishing email. The bad guys have changed tack recently.
    A lot of our computers are on XP or 7. They are up to 10 years old and need hardware jpgrades to work software.

    No internet, email or booking system working at present, but maybe just our IT quarantining everything.

    It is going to be a big incident. Real risk to patients.
    Good luck, and hope that your IT team are the well trained and prepared professionals they should be. Hopefully they can get things back running quickly and with minimal disruption to the clinical side of things.
    Apparently in Leicester we do have the malware. Our new Emergency dept is all elecronic.
    Hope they get it all sorted quickly. Have someone send coffee and pizza to the IT department, that usually makes things happen quicker ;)
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    edited May 2017
    My Twitter feed is overloading with NHS hack crisis and up pops this from TM - she might want to Twitter Bot off until the crisis abates !!

    https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/863083494389538817
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,286
    Does anyone have a feel for what proportion of the NHS is affected - ie what % of population is living in an area affected?
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    MrsBMrsB Posts: 574
    MikeL said:

    Sandpit said:
    Con + Unionist party listed twice - 622 + 7 = 629. Surely should be 631 (650-18-Speaker).

    LDs - 620 - are they standing down in 12 seats?

    Lab 580 + Co-Op 50 = 630.
    LD - don't stand in NI; not contesting 3 seats in England
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    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    RobD said:

    What measures is he proposing? People not being able to click on things? :smiley:

    We have implemented that...

    It transpired that some people were using domain controllers to check their email.

    This is a bad idea that leads to bad things.

    So now they can't. There are other systems with similar restrictions in place, now.
    Using a domain controller to check emails, dear oh dear.
    Buy shares in companies offering cyberessentials registration and consultancy :-)
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    calum said:

    My Twitter feed is overloading with NHS hack crisis and up pops this from TM - she might want to Twitter Bot off until the crisis abates !!

    https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/863083494389538817

    Strong and stable operating systems.

    Perhaps pledge additional redundancy in the NHS in the hope Jez misunderstands.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    New thread!
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,881
    This ransomware attack can only be good for Corbyn. After all, his vision of taking Britain back to the 1970s would mean that these attack vectors wouldn't exist.

    UKIPs idea of taking Britain back to the 1950s would be even better, as ARPAnet hadn't even been invented.
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    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    Sky news just had a cyber security guy on who said some nhs trusts are spending as little as £20k a year on cyber security ie one poorly qualified IT person .

    What fraction of NHS computers are running an outdated version of Windows*? I would guess at in excess of 50%. Just from eyeballing it when I hospitals I see a lot of what looks like XP running, and PCs left unlocked, and users apparently sharing accounts.

    * Before anyone says it, I know Microsoft still offers patches all the way back to XP for paying customers, but the security architecture of XP is miles behind Vista or Windows 7, which in turn are far behind Windows 8 or 10. I personally wouldn't run anything older than Windows 10.
    For this sort of ransomware, the OS is less important than how it got onto the system in the first place which was probably someone clicking a link in a phishing email. The bad guys have changed tack recently.
    A lot of our computers are on XP or 7. They are up to 10 years old and need hardware jpgrades to work software.

    No internet, email or booking system working at present, but maybe just our IT quarantining everything.

    It is going to be a big incident. Real risk to patients.
    Good luck, and hope that your IT team are the well trained and prepared professionals they should be. Hopefully they can get things back running quickly and with minimal disruption to the clinical side of things.
    Apparently in Leicester we do have the malware. Our new Emergency dept is all elecronic.
    Hope they get it all sorted quickly. Have someone send coffee and pizza to the IT department, that usually makes things happen quicker ;)
    I found some Microsoft warning text online:

    You must not grant the right to use the software in any application or situation where the software failure could lead to death or serious bodily injury of any person, or to severe physical or environmental damage (“High Risk Use”). Examples of High Risk Use include, but are not limited to: aircraft or other modes of human mass transportation, nuclear or chemical facilities, life support systems, implantable medical equipment, motor vehicles, or weaponry systems

    Quite. Their disclaimer seems to cover any section of the NHS that hopes to provide emergency treatment.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited May 2017
    Sh*t. This is actually the NSA's fault?!!

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/14/latest_shadow_brokers_data_dump/

    --

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/21/windows_hacked_nsa_shadow_brokers/

    "The polite term for what's happening is a bloodbath. The impolite version is dumpster fire clown shoes shit show," Tentler said. "I'm hopeful this is the wakeup moment for people over patching Windows machines."
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,839

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    RobD said:

    What measures is he proposing? People not being able to click on things? :smiley:

    We have implemented that...

    It transpired that some people were using domain controllers to check their email.

    This is a bad idea that leads to bad things.

    So now they can't. There are other systems with similar restrictions in place, now.
    Using a domain controller to check emails, dear oh dear.
    Buy shares in companies offering cyberessentials registration and consultancy :-)
    Such as my own? ;)

    Seriously thinking of heading back to UK for the summer, there's gonna be a lot of companies very worried about information security.
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    RobinWiggsRobinWiggs Posts: 621
    Well, that was one of my more interesting afternoons as an NHS senior manager. I havent read the thread but some quick observations.

    The IT team are worth their weight in gold.
    Organisations that are upto date with their security patches were ok (we were) in terms of the infection.
    The interdependence of NHS IT systems between organisations is extensive and complex.
    As a result the preventative measures taken widely (shutdown external links) created operational difficulties on a scale larger than the infection and affected mist organisations.
    NHS staff of all disciplines respond superbly in these types of scenarios.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    A cancer in the labour party...This guy gets the full house, anti queen, anti national anthem , anti army, anti help for heroes and of course anti-Semitic / Zionist stuff.

    https://order-order.com/2017/05/12/top-new-corbyn-aide-mocked-queen-army-national-anthem/

    They're on the side of Basil Brush though.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    F*cking Tory cuts!!

    Not cutting enough. If they didn't have computers this wouldn't be an issue.
    If they didn't have 700,000 support staff and a pension bill that rises by a billion a year they might be able to afford better kit.

This discussion has been closed.