@DPJHodges: Every second May delays sees government's authority draining away. She should resign on Monday, then delay Brexit talks till new PM arrives.
Hard to disagree with that
There simply isn't time to delay the talks. The deal needs to be made by October 2017 whether we are ready or not. 2 months have already been lost due to May's unnecessary election.
May and the current government are bed blockers. They need to get out of the way to enable someone competent to lead Brexit. Because it will take time for anyone to get up to speed, they should leave now.
May and the current government are bed blockers. They need to get out of the way to enable someone competent to lead Brexit. Because it will take time for anyone to get up to speed, they should leave now.
We need someone good in charge.
Care to offer a suggestion? Bear in mind that if it's a Tory then any leadership election should manage to clear them out of the running pretty sharpish.
Something minor that occurred to me on the exit poll: both this and last time the Conservatives slightly exceeded their forecast. This time was by about 4 seats, I think 2015 was by a bit more.
Just worth making a note of in case the next one is on the cusp of two different seat bands.
Franlky, May has to go and soon.. three months max.. The Tories have fecked themselves good and proper. I cannot see how they can win the next election. The prospect of Corbyn frightens the life out of a lot of people inc me..
She should have announced she was going yesterday. The government can't just carry on as if nothing happened.
Yep. How can such a weakened PM negotiate in our interests?
That's why there needs to be a leadership contest.
'Not another one!'
No more leadership contests. Just abandon Brexit and then the government can roll along quite comfortably with a non majority government as many countries do. Brexit is the problem not Theresa May's lack of a majority.
We can't cancel Brexit. We have to still respect the referendum result.
There simply isn't time to delay the talks. The deal needs to be made by October 2017 whether we are ready or not. 2 months have already been lost due to May's unnecessary election.
Starting the talks with May in post is a waste of time. When she finally goes, whoever takes over could scrap everything, and would probably have to
Parliament considers and (based on current membership) votes enthusiastically for plan. Deal concluded, electorate hopefully fooled.
It may be a childishly cunning plan and may work (sort of) but we'll know we've been conned. And that will permanently damage faith in politics. A price worth paying for some.
I'd be broadly happy with that sort of scenario. "will permanently damage faith in politics" I'm happy with that too. Politics has too, sometimes, boil down to grubby horse-trading. It's better to acknowledge that than endlessly warble on about vision. Politics is a tool. If people have too much "faith" in it, a correction is helpful.
I think it's wonderful that a leader who naturally prefers acting unilaterally and in narrow self-interest is going to have to consult endlessly with different and conflicting interests to reach brokered ways forward. We might even by accident get some good decisions as a result.
Britain doesn't have the time for a Conservative party leadership election, with the Brexit clock ticking, so Theresa May is stuck in the job. She may endure there a long time. John Major was labelled in office but not in power in 1993. He only left office at the electorate's hands in 1997.
Is May even capable of sensibly brokering group decisions ? As well as her authority being gone for ever - and at the end of the day brokering decisions still requires someone in charge - I'm not sure she has ever possessed the temperament to be even minimally effective in that role. Add to the mix various backstabbing and/or ruthless careerists hankering for the top job, and what sounds like a sensible way to proceed in the national interest is likely impossible.
And that isn't even to factor in the Scottish party now being in open revolt, as per this morning's Telegraph article.
@DPJHodges: Every second May delays sees government's authority draining away. She should resign on Monday, then delay Brexit talks till new PM arrives.
Hard to disagree with that
There simply isn't time to delay the talks. The deal needs to be made by October 2017 whether we are ready or not. 2 months have already been lost due to May's unnecessary election.
Cancel the damn thing! It's an albatross round our neck!
Franlky, May has to go and soon.. three months max.. The Tories have fecked themselves good and proper. I cannot see how they can win the next election. The prospect of Corbyn frightens the life out of a lot of people inc me..
She should have announced she was going yesterday. The government can't just carry on as if nothing happened.
She is doomed, and could lose a vote of confidence at anytime. The next election is not so far away, and not likely to be at a time of the Tories choice. Indeed it is likely to be in the midst of some Parliamentary crisis or other.
Other parties need to stay fit and prepare, and Labour needs to re-shuffle its front bench to get some big hitters back in. Some areas of policy need serious preparatory work as Labour is likely to be in government before Brexit happens.
Chuka has said that he is open to coming back to the Shadow Cabinet.
Agreed - the left has won. Corbyn must now show real leadership, reach out to other parts of the party and build a shadow front bench that makes use of all the talent Labour has. He needs to show voters that Labour is a serious government in waiting.
I think it's a rebellion against the old order more than Corbynmania. Theresa May's campaign was loathsome. You could see what people made of it every time there was a studio audience. Many weren't accepting of the xenophobia and the tedious soundbites. Nuttall was booed almost every time he opened his mouth.
I'm sure it's a zeitgeist thing picked up first by the young and exacerbated by Brexit and the xenophobia implicit in it. Corbyn just seemed the most radical choice on offer. I sense things will move in unexpected ways in the coming months and the stresses put on this minority government by Brexit could well bring it down.
"Party Z doesn't unilaterally decide Britain's negotiating position. Nor does Party X or Party Y."
But party Z and its policies will have more weight with the EU negotiators because they are remainers. To have the other 'side' as part of your own negotiating team is illogical, surely you can see that?
There simply isn't time to delay the talks. The deal needs to be made by October 2017 whether we are ready or not. 2 months have already been lost due to May's unnecessary election.
Starting the talks with May in post is a waste of time. When she finally goes, whoever takes over could scrap everything, and would probably have to
1) why would they have to? These are the Govt's negotiations, not just May's. Any alternative leader would likely intimately involved in the decisions, even if via regular Cabinet briefings.
2). There will be no potion to "scrap everything". We are on a deadline. Scrapping everything means crashing out of the EU with nothing. The EU aren't going to let any new leader mess them around after they have committed time and resources to it. They'll just walk away.
A minority govt needn't be a bad thing, it means the PM will have to sell poilcies to the house, convince people to support them. That has to be preferable to a huge majority.
I think it's a rebellion against the old order more than Corbynmania. Theresa May's campaign was loathsome. You could see what people made of it every time there was a studio audience. Many weren't accepting of the xenophobia and the tedious soundbites. Nuttall was booed almost every time he opened his mouth.
I'm sure it's a zeitgeist thing picked up first by the young and exacerbated by Brexit and the xenophobia implicit in it. Corbyn just seemed the most radical choice on offer. I sense things will move in unexpected ways in the coming months and the stresses put on this minority government by Brexit could well bring it down.
Others have noted this election could be described as the revenge of the young.
Old people voted for Brexit, and the young will suffer. They voted accordingly
We can't cancel Brexit. We have to still respect the referendum result.
We can. The question is whether we should.
Tezza fought the election on a specific version of Brexit (no single market, perhaps no deal at all) and the voters told her where to stick it
So, again, does the election mandate (no to hard Brexit) supersede the referendum mandate (Brexit, whatever that means)?
Would that be the 43% of voter who voted Conservative and the 40% of voters who voted for Corbyn who said "of course we are leaving the single market)?
Given we have another hung Parliament - the second from the last three GEs - shouldn't we just bite the bullet and move to a PR system?
If the Conservative Party is seen to have little to offer the voters other than stopping bat-shit crazy Marxists getting into Westminster - and not exactly performing that task with great ability - then yes, to prevent that in perpetuity, maybe it should be doing some soul-searching.
But then you look to Scotland, and that Parliament was supposed to be majority-proof.....
May and the current government are bed blockers. They need to get out of the way to enable someone competent to lead Brexit. Because it will take time for anyone to get up to speed, they should leave now.
We need someone good in charge.
Care to offer a suggestion? Bear in mind that if it's a Tory then any leadership election should manage to clear them out of the running pretty sharpish.
If the Tories break the habit of a lifetime and put the national interest first, they'd make Phillip Hammond their leader and task him with leading a cross-party Brexit negotiation whose primary aim is to protect the rights of all British citizens and inflict as little harm as possible on the economy. That also means keeping the deluded, dangerous and defeated Parliamentary and media Brexit right as far away as possible from any kind of influence.
A minority govt needn't be a bad thing, it means the PM will have to sell poilcies to the house, convince people to support them. That has to be preferable to a huge majority.
It will also force the opposition parties to work together, co-ordinating and co-operating to try and outmanoeuvre the government. The relationships and mutual understanding that emerge from this might have significant implications for politics further down the road.
May and the current government are bed blockers. They need to get out of the way to enable someone competent to lead Brexit. Because it will take time for anyone to get up to speed, they should leave now.
We need someone good in charge.
Sounds sensible.
Who?
I doubt you would accept Corbyn /Starmer, the latter having done a particularly excellent job.
If I had to choose from the Tory party. That's more tricky. I would discount Gove as being unable to run a campaign on trust. Boris needs a serious look as the leader of Leave. Rudd is sound but dull. Kwateng needs to be in a senior role, but is too junior. Osborne, the obvious choice is unavailable. Hunt deserves a break from the NHS,but needs to remind us of talent.
Not easy.
Boris leader Kwateng Home Hunt Chancellor Rudd FO Gove Brexit
Would that be the 43% of voter who voted Conservative and the 40% of voters who voted for Corbyn who said "of course we are leaving the single market)?
Do you honestly think if Corbyn was PM now, we would be leaving?
We can't cancel Brexit. We have to still respect the referendum result.
We can. The question is whether we should.
Tezza fought the election on a specific version of Brexit (no single market, perhaps no deal at all) and the voters told her where to stick it
So, again, does the election mandate (no to hard Brexit) supersede the referendum mandate (Brexit, whatever that means)?
As we discussed yesterday, whilst cancelling Brexit now isn't an option, there is at least a path towards it, that would start by shaping a soft Brexit deal to be put to a debate in parliament, and finish with a fresh referendum offering a choice between this Brexit deal or the status quo in say eighteen months' time.
Would that be the 43% of voter who voted Conservative and the 40% of voters who voted for Corbyn who said "of course we are leaving the single market)?
Do you honestly think if Corbyn was PM now, we would be leaving?
Franlky, May has to go and soon.. three months max.. The Tories have fecked themselves good and proper. I cannot see how they can win the next election. The prospect of Corbyn frightens the life out of a lot of people inc me..
She should have announced she was going yesterday. The government can't just carry on as if nothing happened.
She is doomed, and could lose a vote of confidence at anytime. The next election is not so far away, and not likely to be at a time of the Tories choice. Indeed it is likely to be in the midst of some Parliamentary crisis or other.
Other parties need to stay fit and prepare, and Labour needs to re-shuffle its front bench to get some big hitters back in. Some areas of policy need serious preparatory work as Labour is likely to be in government before Brexit happens.
Chuka has said that he is open to coming back to the Shadow Cabinet.
Agreed - the left has won. Corbyn must now show real leadership, reach out to other parts of the party and build a shadow front bench that makes use of all the talent Labour has. He needs to show voters that Labour is a serious government in waiting.
I think it's a rebellion against the old order more than Corbynmania. Theresa May's campaign was loathsome. You could see what people made of it every time there was a studio audience. Many weren't accepting of the xenophobia and the tedious soundbites. Nuttall was booed almost every time he opened his mouth.
I'm sure it's a zeitgeist thing picked up first by the young and exacerbated by Brexit and the xenophobia implicit in it. Corbyn just seemed the most radical choice on offer. I sense things will move in unexpected ways in the coming months and the stresses put on this minority government by Brexit could well bring it down.
I agree that May repelled millions of voters. But the practical consequence of the election is that it has cemented Corbyn in place. Labour lost, though. To win the extra support Labour needs to form a government the party has to unite around him, while he must reach out to ensure the best people are on the shadow front bench and not on the backbenches. McDonnell will stay where he is, no doubt, as will Starmer, Rayner, Ashworth and Thornberry; but beyond that the current operation is mainly 3rd XI. That can and should change now.
We can't cancel Brexit. We have to still respect the referendum result.
We can. The question is whether we should.
Tezza fought the election on a specific version of Brexit (no single market, perhaps no deal at all) and the voters told her where to stick it
So, again, does the election mandate (no to hard Brexit) supersede the referendum mandate (Brexit, whatever that means)?
Would that be the 43% of voter who voted Conservative and the 40% of voters who voted for Corbyn who said "of course we are leaving the single market)?
Quite. The voters massively reaffirmed that Brexit means Brexit. The only thing we learned last the specifics during the election was that if the EU offered us the shittiest of shitty deals and refused to budge an inch, Corbyn would still have taken it. (His clarification of this would have ensured such shittiest of shitty deals, because in he mirror position, that was precisely what Cameron got after saying he would not vote to leave the EU... Corbyn showed them his cards too, that we are gone; whatever deal is on the table is the deal that gets taken. )
@faisalislam: Without @ScotTories performance Cons would have 304 MPs & Lab + SNP 310. Add in other parties & clear Ruth Davidson has kept May at No 10
Franlky, May has to go and soon.. three months max.. The Tories have fecked themselves good and proper. I cannot see how they can win the next election. The prospect of Corbyn frightens the life out of a lot of people inc me..
She should have announced she was going yesterday. The government can't just carry on as if nothing happened.
She is doomed, and could lose a vote of confidence at anytime. The next election is not so far away, and not likely to be at a time of the Tories choice. Indeed it is likely to be in the midst of some Parliamentary crisis or other.
Other parties need to stay fit and prepare, and Labour needs to re-shuffle its front bench to get some big hitters back in. Some areas of policy need serious preparatory work as Labour is likely to be in government before Brexit happens.
what are you complaining about doc ?
5 years of DUP governance is just what this country needs
I don't have any particular grievance against the DUP. I have Presbyterian roots, some from Ireland. The DUP are not going to be imposing their social views on Great Britain, neither the DUP or Conservatives would want that.
It will be the Irish border question that now looks like the most problematic of the 3 initial issues. The status of EU nationals and the Danegeld are minor bites in comparison.
The implications of the government no longer being an honest broker in Stormont are serious. Who'd have thought that the collapse of a green subsidy scheme might matter so much.
you appear to ignore its the same problem if it were a Corbyn govt. How would you keep neutrality of the GFA when Corbyn is irredeemably aligned with SF ?
as for the DUP they want an openish border ( soft brexit ), lots of money spent on NHS and social care. I think Ive found who you should be voting for next time :-)
I voted LibDem. I did not want a Corbyn government, though I could understand why others did, something that PB Tories missed.
Your side (the conservatives) actually won the GE. More seats and more votes generally means that. If Labour won the election, why isn't Jezza PM?
And remember, that unlike you, the Labour Party accepts the referendum result. According to Jezza, we will be leaving the EU, and FOM will be gone. Apart from that, your post makes perfect sense.
Would that be the 43% of voter who voted Conservative and the 40% of voters who voted for Corbyn who said "of course we are leaving the single market)?
Do you honestly think if Corbyn was PM now, we would be leaving?
I have no idea what I think would have happened. I have no doubt that that a sizeable chunk of Labour MPs owe their seats to Corbyn not making the issue a party political one at the election.
Has anyone noticed how as the Tory campaign disintegrated the unanimous view was that it was in part because May had failed to convince that the election was about Brexit. And now the election has happened it was after all? The likely truth is that it was for some voters. But not for vast numbers who thought it was settled.
The voters massively reaffirmed that Brexit means Brexit. The only thing we learned last the specifics during the election was that if the EU offered us the shittiest of shitty deals and refused to budge an inch, Corbyn would still have taken it.
No, we also learned that voters agreed "no deal is better than a bad deal" was the jumped up bollocks we always knew it to be
Your vision of Brexit was put to the electorate, and they told you where to stick it
The only negotiation that could pass the commons now is EEA. Given that means losing influence in the EU, not being able to control immigration, having to pay into EU budgets and not being able to sign Free trade arrangements its not clear that it's a better option than our current membership deal.
Best option would be a second referendum setting out a choice of Camerons deal v EEA membership.
May and the current government are bed blockers. They need to get out of the way to enable someone competent to lead Brexit. Because it will take time for anyone to get up to speed, they should leave now.
We need someone good in charge.
Sounds sensible.
Who?
I doubt you would accept Corbyn /Starmer, the latter having done a particularly excellent job.
If I had to choose from the Tory party. That's more tricky. I would discount Gove as being unable to run a campaign on trust. Boris needs a serious look as the leader of Leave. Rudd is sound but dull. Kwateng needs to be in a senior role, but is too junior. Osborne, the obvious choice is unavailable. Hunt deserves a break from the NHS,but needs to remind us of talent.
Not easy.
Boris leader Kwateng Home Hunt Chancellor Rudd FO Gove Brexit
I would absolutely take that cabinet, but probably switch Hunt and Kwarteng.
The only negotiation that could pass the commons now is EEA. Given that means losing influence in the EU, not being able to control immigration, having to pay into EU budgets and not being able to sign Free trade arrangements its not clear that it's a better option than our current membership deal.
Best option would be a second referendum setting out a choice of Camerons deal v EEA membership.
We could absolutely do our own free trade deals from within the EEA.
1) why would they have to? These are the Govt's negotiations, not just May's.
May has no authority, at Westminster or Brussels.
The EU will ask for a moon on a stick. She can't turn it down. She can't get it through the house.
The lamest duck in history can't front the most important talks of a generation
Surely that is self evident?
Yes. In Parliament, the clear majority is for a soft Brexit (quite possibly ending with BINO or no Brexit at all), comprising the opposition parties and a wedge of sensible Tories, probably now bolstered by less Brexit-obsessed Ruth Davidson Scots Tories.
The first problem is that parliamentary business is driven not by the majority but by the executive, which remains dominated by Leavers or Leaver-converts. Yet the executive can achieve little without a supporting majority in parliament.
The second problem is that the election has explictly rejected Mrs May's approach to Brexit, not trumping but certainly qualifying last year's vote. Those arguing for single market membership will be more confident knowing that they have public opinion and the youthquake on their side.
@faisalislam: Without @ScotTories performance Cons would have 304 MPs & Lab + SNP 310. Add in other parties & clear Ruth Davidson has kept May at No 10
so what... it was a UK election , you are so one eyed its getting very irritating.
May and the current government are bed blockers. They need to get out of the way to enable someone competent to lead Brexit. Because it will take time for anyone to get up to speed, they should leave now.
We need someone good in charge.
Sounds sensible.
Who?
I doubt you would accept Corbyn /Starmer, the latter having done a particularly excellent job.
If I had to choose from the Tory party. That's more tricky. I would discount Gove as being unable to run a campaign on trust. Boris needs a serious look as the leader of Leave. Rudd is sound but dull. Kwateng needs to be in a senior role, but is too junior. Osborne, the obvious choice is unavailable. Hunt deserves a break from the NHS,but needs to remind us of talent.
Not easy.
Boris leader Kwateng Home Hunt Chancellor Rudd FO Gove Brexit
Boris as PM would be actively harmful to UK interests. He is our Trump.
The voters massively reaffirmed that Brexit means Brexit. The only thing we learned last the specifics during the election was that if the EU offered us the shittiest of shitty deals and refused to budge an inch, Corbyn would still have taken it.
No, we also learned that voters agreed "no deal is better than a bad deal" was the jumped up bollocks we always knew it to be
Your vision of Brexit was put to the electorate, and they told you where to stick it
I think that's possibly true with some of the seats. But ultimately this election wasn't about that - even if the PM wanted it to be. What did for May (in terms of winning a majority) was daring to be honest about how she'd fund adult social care.
I now think the Tories should ditch May and tell the new leader to call another election. I think it's now inevitable that Labour will win the next election, so we might as well get on with it now.
Mr. Jonathan, Osborne as FO could've worked. Boris is unfit for high office.
Why? Personal life or temperament? He has high office today. His appeal is wearing thin after 10 years,but he does have a brain the potential to extend Tory reach and is Mr Leave.
May and the current government are bed blockers. They need to get out of the way to enable someone competent to lead Brexit. Because it will take time for anyone to get up to speed, they should leave now.
We need someone good in charge.
Sounds sensible.
Who?
I doubt you would accept Corbyn /Starmer, the latter having done a particularly excellent job.
If I had to choose from the Tory party. That's more tricky. I would discount Gove as being unable to run a campaign on trust. Boris needs a serious look as the leader of Leave. Rudd is sound but dull. Kwateng needs to be in a senior role, but is too junior. Osborne, the obvious choice is unavailable. Hunt deserves a break from the NHS,but needs to remind us of talent.
Not easy.
Boris leader Kwateng Home Hunt Chancellor Rudd FO Gove Brexit
Boris as PM would be actively harmful to UK interests. He is our Trump.
What an absolute cluster fuck. Six weeks ago, Labour were an utter shambles, lead by traitorous Marxists who were despised by the vast majority of their own MPs and looking down the barrel of a Tory landslide. Now, we're quite likely only months away from Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn, and the Tories look in serious trouble, which isn't a bad thing except they've taken the country down with them. Still, at least once Jezza gets in, I'm due a massive payrise, 'cos he loves Matt Wrack and us FBU members, so every cloud ........
"Party Z doesn't unilaterally decide Britain's negotiating position. Nor does Party X or Party Y."
But party Z and its policies will have more weight with the EU negotiators because they are remainers. To have the other 'side' as part of your own negotiating team is illogical, surely you can see that?
Britain will decide on its own internal negotiating position before entering negotiations. EU negotiators will have to deal with that then.
The government sought to crush the saboteurs. The people declined to assist. Which bit of democracy don't you accept?
Mr. Jonathan, Osborne as FO could've worked. Boris is unfit for high office.
Why? Personal life or temperament? He has high office today. His appeal is wearing thin after 10 years,but he does have a brain the potential to extend Tory reach and is Mr Leave.
Because he is an unreliable idiot who has managed to manourvre himself into a position where he is forced to argue for things in which he palpably does not believe (insofar as he actually has any beliefs that extend beyond his own self-advancement).
A lesson from the election is that the public values openness, consistency and integrity. Boris is the absolute opposite.
@JeremyCliffe: Thatcher's ministers were dismissed as "vegetables". But how leguminous must you be to balk at standing up to a PM as inept & wobbly as May?
If the Conservative Party is seen to have little to offer the voters other than stopping bat-shit crazy Marxists getting into Westminster - and not exactly performing that task with great ability - then yes, to prevent that in perpetuity, maybe it should be doing some soul-searching.
But then you look to Scotland, and that Parliament was supposed to be majority-proof.....
Calling an unnecessary election was a cunning plan though. Mrs May showing all the deviousness, malfeasance and mendacity of Blackadder at his finest.
The trouble was that the more the voters saw of Mrs May the more they thought she was Baldrick sucking on a turnip. Which is fine if the Tories wanted revenge on malcolmg and for "Con GAIN Ayr" to flash on the gogglebox. Elsewhere less so.
The only negotiation that could pass the commons now is EEA. Given that means losing influence in the EU, not being able to control immigration, having to pay into EU budgets and not being able to sign Free trade arrangements its not clear that it's a better option than our current membership deal.
Best option would be a second referendum setting out a choice of Camerons deal v EEA membership.
Honestly this is entering the realms of fantasy. Leaving aside it means Farage back and UKIP at 30%+ in the polls, it isn't even an option. It is far from clear that the EU would countenance us cancelling article 50, but even suggesting we might want that would mean them ending any negotiations tomorrow. And Cameron's deal certainly isn't on offer anymore. Any cancellation of article 50 would mean end of U.K. Opt out, schengen, euro the lot.
We can't cancel Brexit. We have to still respect the referendum result.
We can. The question is whether we should.
Tezza fought the election on a specific version of Brexit (no single market, perhaps no deal at all) and the voters told her where to stick it
So, again, does the election mandate (no to hard Brexit) supersede the referendum mandate (Brexit, whatever that means)?
Would that be the 43% of voter who voted Conservative and the 40% of voters who voted for Corbyn who said "of course we are leaving the single market)?
Quite. The voters massively reaffirmed that Brexit means Brexit. The only thing we learned last the specifics during the election was that if the EU offered us the shittiest of shitty deals and refused to budge an inch, Corbyn would still have taken it. (His clarification of this would have ensured such shittiest of shitty deals, because in he mirror position, that was precisely what Cameron got after saying he would not vote to leave the EU... Corbyn showed them his cards too, that we are gone; whatever deal is on the table is the deal that gets taken. )
I still don't understand why people think its going to be a negotiation. They have worked out the deal, sought and received collective agreement behind closed doors and will present it to the UK on a take it or leave it basis. They believe, quite rightly they have more pressing issues to deal with and the sooner were gone the better. Now if we started to look at how to revoke A50 then that could get interesting. The PM is only the postman who brings back the deal and really the cabinet and whoever now has their hands on the lebers of power in the party has to decide to take it, walk away or find a way of staying.
Franlky, May has to go and soon.. three months max.. The Tories have fecked themselves good and proper. I cannot see how they can win the next election. The prospect of Corbyn frightens the life out of a lot of people inc me..
She should have announced she was going yesterday. The government can't just carry on as if nothing happened.
Yep. How can such a weakened PM negotiate in our interests?
That's why there needs to be a leadership contest.
'Not another one!'
No more leadership contests. Just abandon Brexit and then the government can roll along quite comfortably with a non majority government as many countries do. Brexit is the problem not Theresa May's lack of a majority.
Can't do that. She triggered Article 50. I think triggering Article 50 without being ready and then calling am election is grossly negligent.
May and the current government are bed blockers. They need to get out of the way to enable someone competent to lead Brexit. Because it will take time for anyone to get up to speed, they should leave now.
We need someone good in charge.
Sounds sensible.
Who?
I doubt you would accept Corbyn /Starmer, the latter having done a particularly excellent job.
If I had to choose from the Tory party. That's more tricky. I would discount Gove as being unable to run a campaign on trust. Boris needs a serious look as the leader of Leave. Rudd is sound but dull. Kwateng needs to be in a senior role, but is too junior. Osborne, the obvious choice is unavailable. Hunt deserves a break from the NHS,but needs to remind us of talent.
Not easy.
Boris leader Kwateng Home Hunt Chancellor Rudd FO Gove Brexit
Boris as PM would be actively harmful to UK interests. He is our Trump.
I think he'd need to deliver £350m per week for the NHS, as long as he does that then the idea that he lied to win the referendum goes away. Boris has the right cult of personality to take Britain into the rest of the world. You might not like him, but the response to him outside of Europe is usually very positive.
Mr. Jonathan, Osborne as FO could've worked. Boris is unfit for high office.
Why? Personal life or temperament? He has high office today. His appeal is wearing thin after 10 years,but he does have a brain the potential to extend Tory reach and is Mr Leave.
Because he is an unreliable idiot who has managed to manourvre himself into a position where he is forced to argue for things in which he palpably does not believe (insofar as he actually has any beliefs that extend beyond his own self-advancement).
Sounds like a politician. Boris isn't an idiot. He plays the fool. Quite different.
(btw I am no Boris fan, but he is in most respects the natural choice from a very weak field)
@faisalislam: Without @ScotTories performance Cons would have 304 MPs & Lab + SNP 310. Add in other parties & clear Ruth Davidson has kept May at No 10
The voters massively reaffirmed that Brexit means Brexit. The only thing we learned last the specifics during the election was that if the EU offered us the shittiest of shitty deals and refused to budge an inch, Corbyn would still have taken it.
No, we also learned that voters agreed "no deal is better than a bad deal" was the jumped up bollocks we always knew it to be
Your vision of Brexit was put to the electorate, and they told you where to stick it
I think that's possibly true with some of the seats. But ultimately this election wasn't about that - even if the PM wanted it to be. What did for May (in terms of winning a majority) was daring to be honest about how she'd fund adult social care.
I now think the Tories should ditch May and tell the new leader to call another election. I think it's now inevitable that Labour will win the next election, so we might as well get on with it now.
The Prime Minister went to the country - unnecessarily - explictly asking for a larger majority in order to deliver her vision of Brexit.
The result of the election is that the country decided that this government shouldn't have any majority at all.
That is a bit more fundamantal than "possibly true with some of the seats". It is an explicit rejection of the government's approach.
Arguing that people voted for a whole variety of reasons is obviously true, but is a debating point, as was precisely the same point made after the referendum result itself. The fact remains that the government asked a question and the people have given our answer.
Your side (the conservatives) actually won the GE. More seats and more votes generally means that. If Labour won the election, why isn't Jezza PM?
And remember, that unlike you, the Labour Party accepts the referendum result. According to Jezza, we will be leaving the EU, and FOM will be gone. Apart from that, your post makes perfect sense.
The vast majority of votes went to parties that accept the EU referendum result.
Franlky, May has to go and soon.. three months max.. The Tories have fecked themselves good and proper. I cannot see how they can win the next election. The prospect of Corbyn frightens the life out of a lot of people inc me..
She should have announced she was going yesterday. The government can't just carry on as if nothing happened.
Yep. How can such a weakened PM negotiate in our interests?
That's why there needs to be a leadership contest.
'Not another one!'
No more leadership contests. Just abandon Brexit and then the government can roll along quite comfortably with a non majority government as many countries do. Brexit is the problem not Theresa May's lack of a majority.
We can't cancel Brexit. We have to still respect the referendum result.
The country were asked a stupid question. The 48% with the intelligence to know it voted one way. The 52% who didn't voted another.
Imagine someone said
'Do you want to get rid of the civil service'?
'What does that mean?'
'It means we'll save a fortune'
'Really?'
'And we can stop foreigners using our NHS for nothing'
'Really?'
'And a rebate for all of us of £350,000,000 a week!'
'Really? And the downside??'
'Nothing!'
'I'm in!!!!!'
So now the country is irrevocably divided. The government asked for a mandate to see it through. Like most stupid questions it got a stupid answer. 'You can't have one unless you get the support of ten homophobes'.
"So, Brexiteers, do you really still want to send May to Brussels?"
Your party is led by an incompetent politician, but it is the government at the moment. Don't blame us for your party's hopelessness.
First of all, I am not a member of any party, but if by "us" you mean Brexiteers, then yes, I do blame you entirely for the hopelessness of the Tory party (in England)
Mr. Max, people shouldn't be too harsh on Timothy or Hill. Crucifixion would suffice.
Mr. Jonathan, temperament. I think we're generally (and the media in particular) to precious about colourful personal lives.
Boris cannot be taken seriously. He's Foreign Secretary whilst we've got raised tensions with North Korea, the South China Sea situation. Qatar blockaded, Iran blaming Saudi Arabia for a terrorist attack, and the EU negotiations to come. He's absolutely not up to it.
On an electoral note, I don't think he flies in the North, and maybe not in the Midlands. So what if he's popular in the South? That's Toryland anyway.
so what... it was a UK election , you are so one eyed its getting very irritating.
Of course it was a UK election.
I am not complaining that Ruth Davidson "won the election" for May, but it is a useful and interesting fact to discuss
The election killed off two big SNP memes: England is moving inexorably rightwards as Scotland moves left; and England's result is the only one that affects a Westminster election.
On Thursday we saw a higher percentage of people in England vote for the most left-wing manifesto on offer than Scots; and it's only thanks to Scottish Tory MPs there's a Tory government.
I would not be surprised if Labour was again the biggest Scottish party in Westminster elections in the relatively near future.
May and the current government are bed blockers. They need to get out of the way to enable someone competent to lead Brexit. Because it will take time for anyone to get up to speed, they should leave now.
We need someone good in charge.
Sounds sensible.
Who?
I doubt you would accept Corbyn /Starmer, the latter having done a particularly excellent job.
If I had to choose from the Tory party. That's more tricky. I would discount Gove as being unable to run a campaign on trust. Boris needs a serious look as the leader of Leave. Rudd is sound but dull. Kwateng needs to be in a senior role, but is too junior. Osborne, the obvious choice is unavailable. Hunt deserves a break from the NHS,but needs to remind us of talent.
Not easy.
Boris leader Kwateng Home Hunt Chancellor Rudd FO Gove Brexit
Boris as PM would be actively harmful to UK interests. He is our Trump.
You think Trump does Latin? Who knew....
Boris is everything that May is not. I felt robbed by not having the chance to weigh him up against her in the last leadership election. Since then, we have seen Theresa May's faults laid bare to the electorate.
Love him or hate him, Boris connects people to politics. He has already been tested with two terms as Boss of the Big City, and despite the direst predictions, London did not fall into the Thames on his watch. He has done a year as Foreign Secretary, and despite the direst predictions, we are not at war with Germany. I often think the loudest wailing about Boris comes from those who fear he might actually be good at the job. Very, very good. And more so from within his own party than outside.
Mr. Jonathan, Osborne as FO could've worked. Boris is unfit for high office.
Why? Personal life or temperament? He has high office today. His appeal is wearing thin after 10 years,but he does have a brain the potential to extend Tory reach and is Mr Leave.
Because he is an unreliable idiot who has managed to manourvre himself into a position where he is forced to argue for things in which he palpably does not believe (insofar as he actually has any beliefs that extend beyond his own self-advancement).
Sounds like a politician. Boris isn't an idiot. He plays the fool. Quite different.
(btw I am no Boris fan, but he is in most respects the natural choice from a very weak field)
I didn't say he was unintelligent. He is nevertheless an idiot.
Franlky, May has to go and soon.. three months max.. The Tories have fecked themselves good and proper. I cannot see how they can win the next election. The prospect of Corbyn frightens the life out of a lot of people inc me..
She should have announced she was going yesterday. The government can't just carry on as if nothing happened.
She is doomed, and could lose a vote of confidence at anytime. The next election is not so far away, and not likely to be at a time of the Tories choice. Indeed it is likely to be in the midst of some Parliamentary crisis or other.
Other parties need to stay fit and prepare, and Labour needs to re-shuffle its front bench to get some big hitters back in. Some areas of policy need serious preparatory work as Labour is likely to be in government before Brexit happens.
what are you complaining about doc ?
5 years of DUP governance is just what this country needs
I don't have any particular grievance against the DUP. I have Presbyterian roots, some from Ireland. The DUP are not going to be imposing their social views on Great Britain, neither the DUP or Conservatives would want that.
It will be the Irish border question that now looks like the most problematic of the 3 initial issues. The status of EU nationals and the Danegeld are minor bites in comparison.
The implications of the government no longer being an honest broker in Stormont are serious. Who'd have thought that the collapse of a green subsidy scheme might matter so much.
you appear to ignore its the same problem if it were a Corbyn govt. How would you keep neutrality of the GFA when Corbyn is irredeemably aligned with SF ?
as for the DUP they want an openish border ( soft brexit ), lots of money spent on NHS and social care. I think Ive found who you should be voting for next time :-)
I voted LibDem. I did not want a Corbyn government, though I could understand why others did, something that PB Tories missed.
If I were in NI, I would vote Alliance.
Anyone sensible in NI would vote Alliance. They are the only party who think politicians should govern on competence. Even if Alliance fall short in practice (I don't know enough to say), just having that as a principle puts them head and shoulders above the others.
I am forced to conclude, reluctantly, that most people in Northern Ireland aren't sensible.
May and the current government are bed blockers. They need to get out of the way to enable someone competent to lead Brexit. Because it will take time for anyone to get up to speed, they should leave now.
We need someone good in charge.
Sounds sensible.
Who?
I doubt you would accept Corbyn /Starmer, the latter having done a particularly excellent job.
If I had to choose from the Tory party. That's more tricky. I would discount Gove as being unable to run a campaign on trust. Boris needs a serious look as the leader of Leave. Rudd is sound but dull. Kwateng needs to be in a senior role, but is too junior. Osborne, the obvious choice is unavailable. Hunt deserves a break from the NHS,but needs to remind us of talent.
Not easy.
Boris leader Kwateng Home Hunt Chancellor Rudd FO Gove Brexit
Boris as PM would be actively harmful to UK interests. He is our Trump.
I think he'd need to deliver £350m per week for the NHS, as long as he does that then the idea that he lied to win the referendum goes away. Boris has the right cult of personality to take Britain into the rest of the world. You might not like him, but the response to him outside of Europe is usually very positive.
Boris has the popularity to win an election, for sure.
And comparisons with Trump are ridiculous. He is the foreign secretary and has served for a long time.
The voters massively reaffirmed that Brexit means Brexit. The only thing we learned last the specifics during the election was that if the EU offered us the shittiest of shitty deals and refused to budge an inch, Corbyn would still have taken it.
No, we also learned that voters agreed "no deal is better than a bad deal" was the jumped up bollocks we always knew it to be
Your vision of Brexit was put to the electorate, and they told you where to stick it
I think that's possibly true with some of the seats. But ultimately this election wasn't about that - even if the PM wanted it to be. What did for May (in terms of winning a majority) was daring to be honest about how she'd fund adult social care.
I now think the Tories should ditch May and tell the new leader to call another election. I think it's now inevitable that Labour will win the next election, so we might as well get on with it now.
The Prime Minister went to the country - unnecessarily - explictly asking for a larger majority in order to deliver her vision of Brexit.
The result of the election is that the country decided that this government shouldn't have any majority at all.
That is a bit more fundamantal than "possibly true with some of the seats". It is an explicit rejection of the government's approach.
Arguing that people voted for a whole variety of reasons is obviously true, but is a debating point, as was precisely the same point made after the referendum result itself. The fact remains that the government asked a question and the people have given our answer.
Well if you're going to get into that, the country's choice appears to be May leading a minority Govt. which is what we've got. According to virtually all the commentator and the Opposition the thing the country voted for is apparently what they shouldn't have. May out, and tell the country to vote again!
Mr. Mark, being heavily associated with London might not be an asset beyond it, and it seems the cosmopolitan left really like Corbyn's shade of Soviet red.
May and the current government are bed blockers. They need to get out of the way to enable someone competent to lead Brexit. Because it will take time for anyone to get up to speed, they should leave now.
We need someone good in charge.
Sounds sensible.
Who?
I doubt you would accept Corbyn /Starmer, the latter having done a particularly excellent job.
If I had to choose from the Tory party. That's more tricky. I would discount Gove as being unable to run a campaign on trust. Boris needs a serious look as the leader of Leave. Rudd is sound but dull. Kwateng needs to be in a senior role, but is too junior. Osborne, the obvious choice is unavailable. Hunt deserves a break from the NHS,but needs to remind us of talent.
Not easy.
Boris leader Kwateng Home Hunt Chancellor Rudd FO Gove Brexit
Boris as PM would be actively harmful to UK interests. He is our Trump.
You think Trump does Latin? Who knew....
Boris is everything that May is not. I felt robbed by not having the chance to weigh him up against her in the last leadership election. Since then, we have seen Theresa May's faults laid bare to the electorate.
Love him or hate him, Boris connects people to politics. He has already been tested with two terms as Boss of the Big City, and despite the direst predictions, London did not fall into the Thames on his watch. He has done a year as Foreign Secretary, and despite the direst predictions, we are not at war with Germany. I often think the loudest wailing about Boris comes from those who fear he might actually be good at the job. Very, very good. And more so from within his own party than outside.
The voters massively reaffirmed that Brexit means Brexit. The only thing we learned last the specifics during the election was that if the EU offered us the shittiest of shitty deals and refused to budge an inch, Corbyn would still have taken it.
No, we also learned that voters agreed "no deal is better than a bad deal" was the jumped up bollocks we always knew it to be
Your vision of Brexit was put to the electorate, and they told you where to stick it
I think that's possibly true with some of the seats. But ultimately this election wasn't about that - even if the PM wanted it to be. What did for May (in terms of winning a majority) was daring to be honest about how she'd fund adult social care.
I now think the Tories should ditch May and tell the new leader to call another election. I think it's now inevitable that Labour will win the next election, so we might as well get on with it now.
I think the next election is highly unpredictable.
There is likely to be much more scrutiny on Corbyn’s plans. Even with the most dreadful campaign in living memory and a poor leader, the Tories did still manage to win.
Corbyn’s mistakes didn’t matter because no-one thought he’d do this well. Even Nick Palmer was predicting seat losses, as I recollect.
(This is not to take anything away from Corbyn’s achievement -- the Tories found out what Liz Kendall, Yvette Cooper, Andy Burnham and Owen Smith know. He’s one helluva campaigner).
May and the current government are bed blockers. They need to get out of the way to enable someone competent to lead Brexit. Because it will take time for anyone to get up to speed, they should leave now.
We need someone good in charge.
Sounds sensible.
Who?
I doubt you would accept Corbyn /Starmer, the latter having done a particularly excellent job.
If I had to choose from the Tory party. That's more tricky. I would discount Gove as being unable to run a campaign on trust. Boris needs a serious look as the leader of Leave. Rudd is sound but dull. Kwateng needs to be in a senior role, but is too junior. Osborne, the obvious choice is unavailable. Hunt deserves a break from the NHS,but needs to remind us of talent.
Not easy.
Boris leader Kwateng Home Hunt Chancellor Rudd FO Gove Brexit
Boris as PM would be actively harmful to UK interests. He is our Trump.
I think he'd need to deliver £350m per week for the NHS, as long as he does that then the idea that he lied to win the referendum goes away. Boris has the right cult of personality to take Britain into the rest of the world. You might not like him, but the response to him outside of Europe is usually very positive.
Boris has the popularity to win an election, for sure.
And comparisons with Trump are ridiculous. He is the foreign secretary and has served for a long time.
It is certainly true that the jury's out on whether Trump will reach the heady heights of one year's service.
Boris as PM would be actively harmful to UK interests. He is our Trump.
Boris is much much better than Trump. He's very flexible ideologically which could be helpful for Brexit. He brings some showmanship.
But he is disliked on the continent. And enough of his colleagues don't trust him at all - he would need a big majority just to account for that.
And he hasn't really proved he can do a big job yet. He doesn't have much domestic policy experience and would need a lot of support even to be a basically competent PM.
The only negotiation that could pass the commons now is EEA.
They've already voted to leave, so if they vote on something it'll be a choice between whatever they're given and Car Crash Brexit. They'll have to pass it.
The people who matter are the people with the ability to change the PM and substitute a different negotiator, and that's Tory MPs, plus the people with the ability to bring down the government, ie the DUP.
This could change overnight if somebody cuts too much fentanyl into the House of Commons cocaine and the Tories lose a dozen MPs in one go, but it's where we are now.
The voters massively reaffirmed that Brexit means Brexit. The only thing we learned last the specifics during the election was that if the EU offered us the shittiest of shitty deals and refused to budge an inch, Corbyn would still have taken it.
No, we also learned that voters agreed "no deal is better than a bad deal" was the jumped up bollocks we always knew it to be
Your vision of Brexit was put to the electorate, and they told you where to stick it
I think that's possibly true with some of the seats. But ultimately this election wasn't about that - even if the PM wanted it to be. What did for May (in terms of winning a majority) was daring to be honest about how she'd fund adult social care.
I now think the Tories should ditch May and tell the new leader to call another election. I think it's now inevitable that Labour will win the next election, so we might as well get on with it now.
I think the next election is highly unpredictable.
There is likely to be much more scrutiny on Corbyn’s plans. Even with the most dreadful campaign in living memory and a poor leader, the Tories did still manage to win.
Corbyn’s mistakes didn’t matter because no-one thought he’d do this well. Even Nick Palmer was predicting seat losses, as I recollect.
(This is not to take anything away from Corbyn’s achievement -- the Tories found out what Liz Kendall, Yvette Cooper, Andy Burnham and Owen Smith know. He’s one helluva campaigner).
And certainly some would have voted Labour thinking that it wouldn't matter. But I just think this has started something and the Tories are going to spend the next x amount of time tearing themselves apart.
May and the current government are bed blockers. They need to get out of the way to enable someone competent to lead Brexit. Because it will take time for anyone to get up to speed, they should leave now.
We need someone good in charge.
Sounds sensible.
Who?
I doubt you would accept Corbyn /Starmer, the latter having done a particularly excellent job.
If I had to choose from the Tory party. That's more tricky. I would discount Gove as being unable to run a campaign on trust. Boris needs a serious look as the leader of Leave. Rudd is sound but dull. Kwateng needs to be in a senior role, but is too junior. Osborne, the obvious choice is unavailable. Hunt deserves a break from the NHS,but needs to remind us of talent.
Not easy.
Boris leader Kwateng Home Hunt Chancellor Rudd FO Gove Brexit
Boris as PM would be actively harmful to UK interests. He is our Trump.
You think Trump does Latin? Who knew....
Boris is everything that May is not. I felt robbed by not having the chance to weigh him up against her in the last leadership election. Since then, we have seen Theresa May's faults laid bare to the electorate.
Love him or hate him, Boris connects people to politics. He has already been tested with two terms as Boss of the Big City, and despite the direst predictions, London did not fall into the Thames on his watch. He has done a year as Foreign Secretary, and despite the direst predictions, we are not at war with Germany. I often think the loudest wailing about Boris comes from those who fear he might actually be good at the job. Very, very good. And more so from within his own party than outside.
Avoiding war with Germany does not make you good at being foreign secretary. Boris is disdained, derided and despised in Europe and further afield. We need a PM who can do detail, mend bridges with good friends we've alienated and build new alliances with important countries. Boris can't do any of that. May can't either, of course. Hammond might be able to.
The voters massively reaffirmed that Brexit means Brexit. The only thing we learned last the specifics during the election was that if the EU offered us the shittiest of shitty deals and refused to budge an inch, Corbyn would still have taken it.
No, we also learned that voters agreed "no deal is better than a bad deal" was the jumped up bollocks we always knew it to be
Your vision of Brexit was put to the electorate, and they told you where to stick it
I think that's possibly true with some of the seats. But ultimately this election wasn't about that - even if the PM wanted it to be. What did for May (in terms of winning a majority) was daring to be honest about how she'd fund adult social care.
I now think the Tories should ditch May and tell the new leader to call another election. I think it's now inevitable that Labour will win the next election, so we might as well get on with it now.
I think the next election is highly unpredictable.
There is likely to be much more scrutiny on Corbyn’s plans. Even with the most dreadful campaign in living memory and a poor leader, the Tories did still manage to win.
Corbyn’s mistakes didn’t matter because no-one thought he’d do this well. Even Nick Palmer was predicting seat losses, as I recollect.
(This is not to take anything away from Corbyn’s achievement -- the Tories found out what Liz Kendall, Yvette Cooper, Andy Burnham and Owen Smith know. He’s one helluva campaigner).
The Tories didn't "win". We have a ridiculous voting system and a ridiculous political system to go with it, but its rules are that you win by getting a majority. If there isn't a majority, nobody has won. Yes, the Tories (just) got the most votes with 42%, and will probably form the next government. But they didn't "win".
The only negotiation that could pass the commons now is EEA. Given that means losing influence in the EU, not being able to control immigration, having to pay into EU budgets and not being able to sign Free trade arrangements its not clear that it's a better option than our current membership deal.
Best option would be a second referendum setting out a choice of Camerons deal v EEA membership.
Honestly this is entering the realms of fantasy. Leaving aside it means Farage back and UKIP at 30%+ in the polls, it isn't even an option. It is far from clear that the EU would countenance us cancelling article 50, but even suggesting we might want that would mean them ending any negotiations tomorrow. And Cameron's deal certainly isn't on offer anymore. Any cancellation of article 50 would mean end of U.K. Opt out, schengen, euro the lot.
UKIP are dead. It doesn't matter now if Brexit is "betrayed". They won't be a meaningful force.
The voters massively reaffirmed that Brexit means Brexit. The only thing we learned last the specifics during the election was that if the EU offered us the shittiest of shitty deals and refused to budge an inch, Corbyn would still have taken it.
No, we also learned that voters agreed "no deal is better than a bad deal" was the jumped up bollocks we always knew it to be
Your vision of Brexit was put to the electorate, and they told you where to stick it
I think that's possibly true with some of the seats. But ultimately this election wasn't about that - even if the PM wanted it to be. What did for May (in terms of winning a majority) was daring to be honest about how she'd fund adult social care.
I now think the Tories should ditch May and tell the new leader to call another election. I think it's now inevitable that Labour will win the next election, so we might as well get on with it now.
I think the next election is highly unpredictable.
There is likely to be much more scrutiny on Corbyn’s plans. Even with the most dreadful campaign in living memory and a poor leader, the Tories did still manage to win.
Corbyn’s mistakes didn’t matter because no-one thought he’d do this well. Even Nick Palmer was predicting seat losses, as I recollect.
(This is not to take anything away from Corbyn’s achievement -- the Tories found out what Liz Kendall, Yvette Cooper, Andy Burnham and Owen Smith know. He’s one helluva campaigner).
Everything is unpredictable. I expected Labour to win enough seats to form a government in 2015, Remain to narrowly win last year, Hilary Clinton to scrape home, and the Conservatives to win a working majority.
May and the current government are bed blockers. They need to get out of the way to enable someone competent to lead Brexit. Because it will take time for anyone to get up to speed, they should leave now.
We need someone good in charge.
Sounds sensible.
Who?
I doubt you would accept Corbyn /Starmer, the latter having done a particularly excellent job.
If I had to choose from the Tory party. That's more tricky. I would discount Gove as being unable to run a campaign on trust. Boris needs a serious look as the leader of Leave. Rudd is sound but dull. Kwateng needs to be in a senior role, but is too junior. Osborne, the obvious choice is unavailable. Hunt deserves a break from the NHS,but needs to remind us of talent.
Not easy.
Boris leader Kwateng Home Hunt Chancellor Rudd FO Gove Brexit
Boris as PM would be actively harmful to UK interests. He is our Trump.
I think he'd need to deliver £350m per week for the NHS, as long as he does that then the idea that he lied to win the referendum goes away. Boris has the right cult of personality to take Britain into the rest of the world. You might not like him, but the response to him outside of Europe is usually very positive.
If May is pushed out it has to be Boris that takes over IMO. Although preliminary negotiations start in ten days realistically we've still got until September (and the German election) before proper negotiations begin...
So I say the way forward is for the Tories to install Boris as their leader, we have another (yep another) general election in September - Which hopefully gets the Tories back to a small majority, and then we get on with it.
Course it's high risk because you could easily get a further swing to Corbyn but it's hard to see another way forward....
It all needs to start today with Theresa the house stealer ******* off. This is now an emergency - The country is standing on a precipice.
Boris is clearly a roll of the dice for the Tories. He also is a bit yesterdays man. But the field is very weak, so they have to consider it. My hunch is that he might play very badly against Corbyn.
Comments
Who?
Just worth making a note of in case the next one is on the cusp of two different seat bands.
"will permanently damage faith in politics"
I'm happy with that too.
Politics has too, sometimes, boil down to grubby horse-trading. It's better to acknowledge that than endlessly warble on about vision.
Politics is a tool. If people have too much "faith" in it, a correction is helpful.
As well as her authority being gone for ever - and at the end of the day brokering decisions still requires someone in charge - I'm not sure she has ever possessed the temperament to be even minimally effective in that role.
Add to the mix various backstabbing and/or ruthless careerists hankering for the top job, and what sounds like a sensible way to proceed in the national interest is likely impossible.
And that isn't even to factor in the Scottish party now being in open revolt, as per this morning's Telegraph article.
Has Theresa The House Stealer done the decent thing and ****** off (via the back door) overnight?
I'm sure it's a zeitgeist thing picked up first by the young and exacerbated by Brexit and the xenophobia implicit in it. Corbyn just seemed the most radical choice on offer. I sense things will move in unexpected ways in the coming months and the stresses put on this minority government by Brexit could well bring it down.
Tezza fought the election on a specific version of Brexit (no single market, perhaps no deal at all) and the voters told her where to stick it
So, again, does the election mandate (no to hard Brexit) supersede the referendum mandate (Brexit, whatever that means)?
"Party Z doesn't unilaterally decide Britain's negotiating position. Nor does Party X or Party Y."
But party Z and its policies will have more weight with the EU negotiators because they are remainers. To have the other 'side' as part of your own negotiating team is illogical, surely you can see that?
2). There will be no potion to "scrap everything". We are on a deadline. Scrapping everything means crashing out of the EU with nothing. The EU aren't going to let any new leader mess them around after they have committed time and resources to it. They'll just walk away.
Old people voted for Brexit, and the young will suffer. They voted accordingly
But then you look to Scotland, and that Parliament was supposed to be majority-proof.....
The EU will ask for a moon on a stick. She can't turn it down. She can't get it through the house.
The lamest duck in history can't front the most important talks of a generation
Surely that is self evident?
If I had to choose from the Tory party. That's more tricky. I would discount Gove as being unable to run a campaign on trust. Boris needs a serious look as the leader of Leave. Rudd is sound but dull.
Kwateng needs to be in a senior role, but is too junior. Osborne, the obvious choice is unavailable. Hunt deserves a break from the NHS,but needs to remind us of talent.
Not easy.
Boris leader
Kwateng Home
Hunt Chancellor
Rudd FO
Gove Brexit
No shit
Mr. Observer, interesting idea on Hammond and an EU committee.
Add in other parties & clear Ruth Davidson has kept May at No 10
If I were in NI, I would vote Alliance.
"the voters told her where to stick it."
Your side (the conservatives) actually won the GE. More seats and more votes generally means that. If Labour won the election, why isn't Jezza PM?
And remember, that unlike you, the Labour Party accepts the referendum result. According to Jezza, we will be leaving the EU, and FOM will be gone. Apart from that, your post makes perfect sense.
Has anyone noticed how as the Tory campaign disintegrated the unanimous view was that it was in part because May had failed to convince that the election was about Brexit. And now the election has happened it was after all? The likely truth is that it was for some voters. But not for vast numbers who thought it was settled.
Your vision of Brexit was put to the electorate, and they told you where to stick it
Best option would be a second referendum setting out a choice of Camerons deal v EEA membership.
Revenge of the Etonians, though.
The first problem is that parliamentary business is driven not by the majority but by the executive, which remains dominated by Leavers or Leaver-converts. Yet the executive can achieve little without a supporting majority in parliament.
The second problem is that the election has explictly rejected Mrs May's approach to Brexit, not trumping but certainly qualifying last year's vote. Those arguing for single market membership will be more confident knowing that they have public opinion and the youthquake on their side.
@DPJHodges: Also, it's true Hill and Timothy deserve criticism. But blaming advisors is always a cop-out. Fault lies with May herself.
So, Brexiteers, do you really still want to send May to Brussels?
I now think the Tories should ditch May and tell the new leader to call another election. I think it's now inevitable that Labour will win the next election, so we might as well get on with it now.
Now, we're quite likely only months away from Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn, and the Tories look in serious trouble, which isn't a bad thing except they've taken the country down with them.
Still, at least once Jezza gets in, I'm due a massive payrise, 'cos he loves Matt Wrack and us FBU members, so every cloud ........
The government sought to crush the saboteurs. The people declined to assist. Which bit of democracy don't you accept?
A lesson from the election is that the public values openness, consistency and integrity. Boris is the absolute opposite.
I am not complaining that Ruth Davidson "won the election" for May, but it is a useful and interesting fact to discuss
The trouble was that the more the voters saw of Mrs May the more they thought she was Baldrick sucking on a turnip. Which is fine if the Tories wanted revenge on malcolmg and for "Con GAIN Ayr" to flash on the gogglebox. Elsewhere less so.
(btw I am no Boris fan, but he is in most respects the natural choice from a very weak field)
This was an idea of Timothy, May and Hill. I think they are all childless. Coincidence?
If she doesn't sack them by Monday, the '22 postman will be busy
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/09/ruth-davidson-planning-scottish-tory-breakaway-challenges-theresa/
Which is another serious complicating factor should she try to cling on.
"So, Brexiteers, do you really still want to send May to Brussels?"
Your party is led by an incompetent politician, but it is the government at the moment. Don't blame us for your party's hopelessness.
The result of the election is that the country decided that this government shouldn't have any majority at all.
That is a bit more fundamantal than "possibly true with some of the seats". It is an explicit rejection of the government's approach.
Arguing that people voted for a whole variety of reasons is obviously true, but is a debating point, as was precisely the same point made after the referendum result itself. The fact remains that the government asked a question and the people have given our answer.
But just of four different parties...
The other parties have someone worse.
Imagine someone said
'Do you want to get rid of the civil service'?
'What does that mean?'
'It means we'll save a fortune'
'Really?'
'And we can stop foreigners using our NHS for nothing'
'Really?'
'And a rebate for all of us of £350,000,000 a week!'
'Really? And the downside??'
'Nothing!'
'I'm in!!!!!'
So now the country is irrevocably divided. The government asked for a mandate to see it through. Like most stupid questions it got a stupid answer. 'You can't have one unless you get the support of ten homophobes'.
It's barking mad.
Stop it now!
Mr. Jonathan, temperament. I think we're generally (and the media in particular) to precious about colourful personal lives.
Boris cannot be taken seriously. He's Foreign Secretary whilst we've got raised tensions with North Korea, the South China Sea situation. Qatar blockaded, Iran blaming Saudi Arabia for a terrorist attack, and the EU negotiations to come. He's absolutely not up to it.
On an electoral note, I don't think he flies in the North, and maybe not in the Midlands. So what if he's popular in the South? That's Toryland anyway.
On Thursday we saw a higher percentage of people in England vote for the most left-wing manifesto on offer than Scots; and it's only thanks to Scottish Tory MPs there's a Tory government.
I would not be surprised if Labour was again the biggest Scottish party in Westminster elections in the relatively near future.
Boris is everything that May is not. I felt robbed by not having the chance to weigh him up against her in the last leadership election. Since then, we have seen Theresa May's faults laid bare to the electorate.
Love him or hate him, Boris connects people to politics. He has already been tested with two terms as Boss of the Big City, and despite the direst predictions, London did not fall into the Thames on his watch. He has done a year as Foreign Secretary, and despite the direst predictions, we are not at war with Germany. I often think the loudest wailing about Boris comes from those who fear he might actually be good at the job. Very, very good. And more so from within his own party than outside.
I am forced to conclude, reluctantly, that most people in Northern Ireland aren't sensible.
And comparisons with Trump are ridiculous. He is the foreign secretary and has served for a long time.
https://twitter.com/mjrharris/status/873212293454102528
"Which bit of democracy don't you accept?"
I accept it all, warts and all.
The two main parties have accepted the referendum result. They achieved more than 80% of the votes cast. Do you accept the referendum result?
There is likely to be much more scrutiny on Corbyn’s plans. Even with the most dreadful campaign in living memory and a poor leader, the Tories did still manage to win.
Corbyn’s mistakes didn’t matter because no-one thought he’d do this well. Even Nick Palmer was predicting seat losses, as I recollect.
(This is not to take anything away from Corbyn’s achievement -- the Tories found out what Liz Kendall, Yvette Cooper, Andy Burnham and Owen Smith know. He’s one helluva campaigner).
So that'll be Con 317 .. DUP 11
My apologies. I assumed you voted Tory.
Must be another Scott P.
He's very flexible ideologically which could be helpful for Brexit.
He brings some showmanship.
But he is disliked on the continent. And enough of his colleagues don't trust him at all - he would need a big majority just to account for that.
And he hasn't really proved he can do a big job yet. He doesn't have much domestic policy experience and would need a lot of support even to be a basically competent PM.
The people who matter are the people with the ability to change the PM and substitute a different negotiator, and that's Tory MPs, plus the people with the ability to bring down the government, ie the DUP.
This could change overnight if somebody cuts too much fentanyl into the House of Commons cocaine and the Tories lose a dozen MPs in one go, but it's where we are now.
If May is pushed out it has to be Boris that takes over IMO. Although preliminary negotiations start in ten days realistically we've still got until September (and the German election) before proper negotiations begin...
So I say the way forward is for the Tories to install Boris as their leader, we have another (yep another) general election in September - Which hopefully gets the Tories back to a small majority, and then we get on with it.
Course it's high risk because you could easily get a further swing to Corbyn but it's hard to see another way forward....
It all needs to start today with Theresa the house stealer ******* off. This is now an emergency - The country is standing on a precipice.