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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Infamy, infamy, they’ve all got it in for May

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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084

    FF43 said:

    I have to say I am getting seriously worried. They are all posturing on Brexit - Johnson, Davis and now the supposedly sensible one, Philip Hammond. On the Labour side you have Corbyn and Macdonnell who make it clear Brexit is just a bargaining chip for their advantage. Only Kier Starmer appears to be concerned about getting a decent Brexit arrangement, and no-one is paying HIM any attention.

    We're heading in a Greek trap, revolving government and all. The UK is facing a much more severe humiliation than Suez.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/03/31/the-european-union-lays-out-a-greek-trap-for-the-united-kingdom/
    Plenty of opportunity and good reason there for Labour to jump horses, when it thinks the time and mood are right.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find myself torn on Davis: he's keen on civil liberties (good), and an instinctive Brexiteer (also good).

    But - perhaps because he spent so much time in the whips office - I struggle to think of anything he's done that I genuinely approve of. Resigning his seat over ID cards cost the tax payer a fair penny for no obvious reason. And - while there are several interpretations of what happened - I do still worry that he misunderstands (or misunderstood) how the EU customs union works.

    The problem is that the Tories have no great talent at the top level. Leadsom lied about her CV. (Lied, not exaggerated.) Fox is useless. Johnson is smart but unfocused. Hammond is dull and projects no positive vision about the future. Rudd is bleh.

    There is no shortage of talent below cabinet level. I am friends with Kwasi, so am biased. But Lucy Frazer and Rory Stewart are both also seriously smart.

    Perhaps now is time for Mrs May to reshuffle her cabinet more broadly. Bring in a bunch of people aged 38 to 45 to blood them. Lose Boris and Leadsom and Hammond and Fox and start over.

    It's a risk, sure.

    But I'm not sure the alternatives are any better.

    Don't think she can "lose" Boris and Leadsom and Hammond etc. When her position is so weak.
    Isn't that exactly the problem? She stuck with flawed characters she can't shift because they all have their own power bases.
    The problem is the policy, not the personalities. Until someone is able to chart a credible course away from the rocks of Brexit any machinations about who gets which job are for the birds.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    IanB2 said:

    FF43 said:

    I have to say I am getting seriously worried. They are all posturing on Brexit - Johnson, Davis and now the supposedly sensible one, Philip Hammond. On the Labour side you have Corbyn and Macdonnell who make it clear Brexit is just a bargaining chip for their advantage. Only Kier Starmer appears to be concerned about getting a decent Brexit arrangement, and no-one is paying HIM any attention.

    We're heading in a Greek trap, revolving government and all. The UK is facing a much more severe humiliation than Suez.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/03/31/the-european-union-lays-out-a-greek-trap-for-the-united-kingdom/
    Plenty of opportunity and good reason there for Labour to jump horses, when it thinks the time and mood are right.
    Jump horses to what? Corbyn has one of the most anti EU voting records in the Commons
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    Hammond's intervention today does make it look as though a ladership contest is in the offing - he disagreed with May on the campaign and on "no deal better than bad deal" and his line on austerity is also different from usual. Doesn't make much sense if there isn't an election to contest.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846

    FF43 said:

    I have to say I am getting seriously worried. They are all posturing on Brexit - Johnson, Davis and now the supposedly sensible one, Philip Hammond. On the Labour side you have Corbyn and Macdonnell who make it clear Brexit is just a bargaining chip for their advantage. Only Kier Starmer appears to be concerned about getting a decent Brexit arrangement, and no-one is paying HIM any attention.

    We're heading in a Greek trap, revolving government and all. The UK is facing a much more severe humiliation than Suez.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/03/31/the-european-union-lays-out-a-greek-trap-for-the-united-kingdom/
    That is just your wishful thinking. We all know how much you hate the UK and want to see it brought to its knees. Thankfully that is not going to happen.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,837


    Campaigning has its place of course and its during the campaign usually.


    I think she's actually weathered the worst: Brexit negotiations underway Monday, DUP pact announced Monday or Tuesday, QS Wednesday, which will pass, and then it's the summer.

    Quite. Parliament on Hols. The Executive has the initiative in responding to Events. Whether ofa brexit or otherwise. &Via the Downing St Podium as necessary. Opposition invisible. She survives (and the disloyal sink..)

    You do realise Jez is planning 60 rallies in big venues in marginal seats over the Summer? He loves it. If the Tories are planning on going on holiday, I think he'l enjoy it even more.

    And each rally is worth how many MPs in this parliament?

    Campaigning has its place of course and its during the campaign usually.

    Indeed. But the idea that the opposition will be nowhere is wishful thinking. Labour is geared up for an Autumn election.
    ps, his rallies were worth votes. Much hilarity on this site when he spoke in Runcorn and Colwyn Bay, the day before the election. Result, gain of Weaver Vale and double figure loss in Aberconwy.
    As I said at the time, it is about Local TV news and a double page spread in the local rag.

    I don't doubt he is popular - at present.

    Tony was popular in 97 - now Labour wouldn't rescue him from a tower block.

    Times change.

    FTPA


    So you reckon nailed on 2022 election, then?
  • houndtanghoundtang Posts: 450
    IanB2 said:

    stevef said:

    houndtang said:

    RobD said:

    stevef said:

    David Davis is probably the best bet for the Tories if May goes, but if Cable takes over the LDS it would mean that all three of Lab, Con Lib leaders at the probable date of next election will be over 70.

    Not sure there is anything wrong with that.
    Better than shallow 40 year old PR merchants
    Quite a turnaround from recent trends. I believe this year was the first election since 1951where both PM and Leader of Opposition were 60+
    A gerontocracy is not very inspiring for young people and the cult of personality around Corbyn is the biggest PR con since Stalin.
    There is a more recent example, surely?
    1955 - Eden 50s, Attlee 70s
    59 - Macmillan 60s, Gaitskell 50s
    64 Home 60s, Wilson 40s
    66 Heath and Wilson both 49/50
    70 Heath/Wilson
    74 ditto
    79 Callaghan 60s, Thatcher 50s
    83 Foot late 60s, Thatcher 50s
    87 Thatcher 60s, Kinnock 40s
    92 Major 49, Kinnock 50
    97 Blair 40s, Major 50s
    01 Blair 40s, Hague 40
    05 Blair 50s, Howard 60s
    10 Brown 50s, Cameron 40s
    15 Cameron and Miliband 40s
    17 May and Corbyn 60s
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,837

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I find myself torn on Davis: he's keen on civil liberties (good), and an instinctive Brexiteer (also good).

    But - perhaps because he spent so much time in the whips office - I struggle to think of anything he's done that I genuinely approve of. Resigning his seat over ID cards cost the tax payer a fair penny for no obvious reason. And - while there are several interpretations of what happened - I do still worry that he misunderstands (or misunderstood) how the EU customs union works.

    The problem is that the Tories have no great talent at the top level. Leadsom lied about her CV. (Lied, not exaggerated.) Fox is useless. Johnson is smart but unfocused. Hammond is dull and projects no positive vision about the future. Rudd is bleh.

    There is no shortage of talent below cabinet level. I am friends with Kwasi, so am biased. But Lucy Frazer and Rory Stewart are both also seriously smart.

    Perhaps now is time for Mrs May to reshuffle her cabinet more broadly. Bring in a bunch of people aged 38 to 45 to blood them. Lose Boris and Leadsom and Hammond and Fox and start over.

    It's a risk, sure.

    But I'm not sure the alternatives are any better.

    Don't think she can "lose" Boris and Leadsom and Hammond etc. When her position is so weak.
    Isn't that exactly the problem? She stuck with flawed characters she can't shift because they all have their own power bases.
    The problem is the policy, not the personalities. Until someone is able to chart a credible course away from the rocks of Brexit any machinations about who gets which job are for the birds.
    Policy, not the personalities is the Conservatives problem in a nutshell.
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    FF43 said:

    I have to say I am getting seriously worried. They are all posturing on Brexit - Johnson, Davis and now the supposedly sensible one, Philip Hammond. On the Labour side you have Corbyn and Macdonnell who make it clear Brexit is just a bargaining chip for their advantage. Only Kier Starmer appears to be concerned about getting a decent Brexit arrangement, and no-one is paying HIM any attention.

    We're heading in a Greek trap, revolving government and all. The UK is facing a much more severe humiliation than Suez.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/03/31/the-european-union-lays-out-a-greek-trap-for-the-united-kingdom/
    Plenty of opportunity and good reason there for Labour to jump horses, when it thinks the time and mood are right.
    Jump horses to what? Corbyn has one of the most anti EU voting records in the Commons
    And this is the critical point.

    Jeremy and his group are committed, long term, believers. They are real OUTers.

    They won the referendum for OUT in the north (by deactivating the labour machine of Chukka&Yvette&Millipede and the rest of the euphiles). I was there day after day pushing out 'Labour Leave' leaflets and we carried Labour heartlands with 70+% for Leave. No way that could have been done without Jeremy.

    This view of a 'soft brexit' majority in the commons is a dream.

    Of course, it will last until the first 3-line Labour Whip on the ECJ /SM/CU

    Or, maybe a bit longer in some people minds..

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    May will be fairly happy with that - lead slightly down since immediately after the election, majority think she should stay.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    shiney2 said:


    This view of a 'soft brexit' majority in the commons is a dream.

    Of course, it will last until the first 3-line Labour Whip on the ECJ /SM/CU

    Or, maybe a bit longer in some people minds..

    I agree. Brexit will happen, the country is stuffed.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited June 2017

    May will be fairly happy with that - lead slightly down since immediately after the election, majority think she should stay.
    Nick - you forgot to include the smiley icon to show you were trolling. :)

    May happy bring 3 points behind? Now she really is toast.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009

    May will be fairly happy with that - lead slightly down since immediately after the election, majority think she should stay.
    So May can stay?

    Ooh you are awful ...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    shiney2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    FF43 said:

    I have to say I am getting seriously worried. They are all posturing on Brexit - Johnson, Davis and now the supposedly sensible one, Philip Hammond. On the Labour side you have Corbyn and Macdonnell who make it clear Brexit is just a bargaining chip for their advantage. Only Kier Starmer appears to be concerned about getting a decent Brexit arrangement, and no-one is paying HIM any attention.

    We're heading in a Greek trap, revolving government and all. The UK is facing a much more severe humiliation than Suez.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/03/31/the-european-union-lays-out-a-greek-trap-for-the-united-kingdom/
    Plenty of opportunity and good reason there for Labour to jump horses, when it thinks the time and mood are right.
    Jump horses to what? Corbyn has one of the most anti EU voting records in the Commons
    And this is the critical point.

    Jeremy and his group are committed, long term, believers. They are real OUTers.

    They won the referendum for OUT in the north (by deactivating the labour machine of Chukka&Yvette&Millipede and the rest of the euphiles). I was there day after day pushing out 'Labour Leave' leaflets and we carried Labour heartlands with 70+% for Leave. No way that could have been done without Jeremy.

    This view of a 'soft brexit' majority in the commons is a dream.

    Of course, it will last until the first 3-line Labour Whip on the ECJ /SM/CU

    Or, maybe a bit longer in some people minds..

    It also depends on the position of the new Tory leader and the DUP
  • TonyTony Posts: 159

    May will be fairly happy with that - lead slightly down since immediately after the election, majority think she should stay.
    Surprisingly good for May given the Grenfell coverage.
    Majority want her to stay on.
    Large majority more trusted on brexit.
    Tory share has stayed stable, Labour ahead due to Lib dum, snp dropping.

    Should calm some nerves in Tory party.
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672

    shiney2 said:


    This view of a 'soft brexit' majority in the commons is a dream.

    Of course, it will last until the first 3-line Labour Whip on the ECJ /SM/CU

    Or, maybe a bit longer in some people minds..

    I agree. Brexit will happen, the country is stuffed.
    The morale is to the physical as 3 is to 1. We aren't defeatist. You should try it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    'Despite this, with Brexit negotiations due to begin today, the majority (52 per cent) believe Ms May is the party leader most trusted to negotiate the best deal compared with 39 per cent who back Mr Corbyn.
    More than half of voters (51 per cent) said they would now vote to remain in the EU, while 49% would vote to leave the bloc, the poll found.
    Voters said they would prefer a soft Brexit (55 per cent) compared to a hard Brexit (35 per cent), and more than half (57 per cent) were opposed to a second referendum at the end of the negotiations.
    The poll also found that 60 per cent would prefer a coalition to negotiate a Brexit deal, compared to 35 per cent who favoured the current Conservative-led government to lead talks.'
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-poll-lead-tories-latest-conservatives-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-grenfell-tower-dup-election-a7796516.html
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,181
    On the Lib Dem race, I would definitely rate Ed Davey's chances. He's a genuine hero- rescued a woman from under a train at Waterloo- and has the brains and the moxie to lead the Lib Dems back to being in contention. He has an amazing life story: orphaned as a child, first from Oxford and has real gravitas while also being a fully paid up human being.. He also has a lot of support across the party. I would rate him higher than Cable or Lamb.. Watch this space.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    "Infamy, infamy, they’ve all got it in for May"

    I wonder when the penny is going to start dropping with some key figures in the Cabinent and on the backbenches that both the Labour party and the media overplayed their hand in the way they have treated Theresa May over the last ten days? And I say that as someone who was never a big fan of May and remained a very vocal critic on here almost from the moment she was elected right up until the GE. But the way this awful tragedy has been politically weaponised and turned into such a media feeding frenzy is bad enough, but to then have media literally demanding that May get out among the crowds so they can film and report the public backlash is far worse than their behaviour to the Royal family after Diana's death.

    If the Cabinet had any sense right now they would not be on Leadership manouvres, but instead circling the might of their collective wagons around May and showing some bloody collective Government support! The Government is not one woman, its a team, and if that current team are not up to doing their day job they should think about moving to the backbenches not No10!
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    It just shows Hammond for what he is - someone with no principles. This is what got the Tories into this problem in the first place - choosing a leader who had no real beliefs and no real idea what she wanted to do other than become PM.

    Lets be honest - the only people who support Hammond for PM are retainers who probably aren't even in the Tory party. He has zero chance of winning the membership vote.

    The contest will be between Boris, DD and Rudd. Rudd is the dark horse for the remainers, but she is no terribly likeable and I don't see her winning. The Tory membership will not vote for a remainer. Only chance a remainer would have is in a 'coronation' scenario and I cannot see this happening when either Boris or DD would win if they refused to withdraw.

    Hammond's intervention today does make it look as though a ladership contest is in the offing - he disagreed with May on the campaign and on "no deal better than bad deal" and his line on austerity is also different from usual. Doesn't make much sense if there isn't an election to contest.

  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,281

    May will be fairly happy with that - lead slightly down since immediately after the election, majority think she should stay.
    Indeed - after the last few days it might have been thought both Con and May ratings would have collapsed.

    But they haven't.

    Proof if any were needed that literally anything could happen - in the short term, let alone in 5 years time.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    I've been out all night - but maybe this is the end:


    https://twitter.com/hashtag/tomorrowspaperstoday?src=hash
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    FF43 said:

    I have to say I am getting seriously worried. They are all posturing on Brexit - Johnson, Davis and now the supposedly sensible one, Philip Hammond. On the Labour side you have Corbyn and Macdonnell who make it clear Brexit is just a bargaining chip for their advantage. Only Kier Starmer appears to be concerned about getting a decent Brexit arrangement, and no-one is paying HIM any attention.

    We're heading in a Greek trap, revolving government and all. The UK is facing a much more severe humiliation than Suez.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/03/31/the-european-union-lays-out-a-greek-trap-for-the-united-kingdom/
    That is just your wishful thinking. We all know how much you hate the UK and want to see it brought to its knees. Thankfully that is not going to happen.
    Mr Glenn is a big fan of the EU even though it trashes nation states at will.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    shiney2 said:

    shiney2 said:


    This view of a 'soft brexit' majority in the commons is a dream.

    Of course, it will last until the first 3-line Labour Whip on the ECJ /SM/CU

    Or, maybe a bit longer in some people minds..

    I agree. Brexit will happen, the country is stuffed.
    The morale is to the physical as 3 is to 1. We aren't defeatist. You should try it.
    The politicians and half the country seem hell bent on throwing away our main export market. Fine. Go ahead. It seems that we will only learn the hard way
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    edited June 2017
    Y0kel said:

    Totally unrelated.

    It appears the Americans shot down a Syrian airforce fighter bomber this evening. This was not an accident and had been coming.

    On topic, Davis makes sense in that he has a bit about him and, frankly, seems to enjoy himself with the media. He is also not Boris, who I suspect would do way better than many of the sophisticates would suggest.

    Davis, however, always had a massive ego, its whether he can check it.


    Yep the Americans have shot down a Syrian plane
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846

    I've been out all night - but maybe this is the end:


    https://twitter.com/hashtag/tomorrowspaperstoday?src=hash

    It's a fake.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043

    I've been out all night - but maybe this is the end:


    https://twitter.com/hashtag/tomorrowspaperstoday?src=hash

    It's a fake.
    Looks like I have fallen for nonsense
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    I've been out all night - but maybe this is the end:


    https://twitter.com/hashtag/tomorrowspaperstoday?src=hash

    Fake news
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    fitalass said:

    If tthe Cabinet had any sense right now they would not be on Leadership manouvres, but instead circling the might of their collective wagons around May and showing some bloody collective Government support! The Government is not one woman, its a team, and if that current team are not up to doing their day job they should think about moving to the backbenches not No10!

    Sadly they seem to lack sense but they also appear to suffer from a surfeit of personal ambition. I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that none of them give a d*mn but anything other than manoeuvres to get them a job which none of them seem capable of doing well.

    But at least it comes with a nice big salary!
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    MikeL said:

    May will be fairly happy with that - lead slightly down since immediately after the election, majority think she should stay.
    Indeed - after the last few days it might have been thought both Con and May ratings would have collapsed.

    But they haven't.

    Proof if any were needed that literally anything could happen - in the short term, let alone in 5 years time.
    There is a good reason that their ratings have not collapsed, and that is because the media have overplayed their hand in their treatment of May over the last ten days. As one journalist reported, 'the optics of this looked terrible for May as she was bundled into a car'. But from further a field, the optics of the way the media have treateded May by trying to dehumanise her look even worse. Any Cabinet Minister on Leadership manouvres instead of taking some collective Cabinet responsible and doing their bit won't be getting my vote anytime soon.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited June 2017

    It just shows Hammond for what he is - someone with no principles. This is what got the Tories into this problem in the first place - choosing a leader who had no real beliefs and no real idea what she wanted to do other than become PM.

    Lets be honest - the only people who support Hammond for PM are retainers who probably aren't even in the Tory party. He has zero chance of winning the membership vote.

    The contest will be between Boris, DD and Rudd. Rudd is the dark horse for the remainers, but she is no terribly likeable and I don't see her winning. The Tory membership will not vote for a remainer. Only chance a remainer would have is in a 'coronation' scenario and I cannot see this happening when either Boris or DD would win if they refused to withdraw.

    Hammond's intervention today does make it look as though a ladership contest is in the offing - he disagreed with May on the campaign and on "no deal better than bad deal" and his line on austerity is also different from usual. Doesn't make much sense if there isn't an election to contest.

    Membership polls last year showed Tory members voting for a Remainer, May over a Leaver, Leadsom. Tory members are pragmatic and will want someone hard headed enough to do an effective Brexit deal but also who can keep Corbyn out of No 10
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672
    HYUFD said:

    shiney2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    FF43 said:

    I have to say I am getting seriously worried. They are all posturing on Brexit - Johnson, Davis and now the supposedly sensible one, Philip Hammond. On the Labour side you have Corbyn and Macdonnell who make it clear Brexit is just a bargaining chip for their advantage. Only Kier Starmer appears to be concerned about getting a decent Brexit arrangement, and no-one is paying HIM any attention.

    We're heading in a Greek trap, revolving government and all. The UK is facing a much more severe humiliation than Suez.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/03/31/the-european-union-lays-out-a-greek-trap-for-the-united-kingdom/
    Plenty of opportunity and good reason there for Labour to jump horses, when it thinks the time and mood are right.
    Jump horses to what? Corbyn has one of the most anti EU voting records in the Commons
    And this is the critical point.

    Jeremy and his group are committed, long term, believers. They are real OUTers.

    They won the referendum for OUT in the north (by deactivating the labour machine of Chukka&Yvette&Millipede and the rest of the euphiles). I was there day after day pushing out 'Labour Leave' leaflets and we carried Labour heartlands with 70+% for Leave. No way that could have been done without Jeremy.

    This view of a 'soft brexit' majority in the commons is a dream.

    Of course, it will last until the first 3-line Labour Whip on the ECJ /SM/CU

    Or, maybe a bit longer in some people minds..

    It also depends on the position of the new Tory leader and the DUP
    It agree it does seem likely there will be a new tory leader before FTPA expires. However the statusquo has a power all of its own and the timescale is indeterminate.

    I t also seems rather likely a backslider could not command the tory party in the face of a labour 3line whip supporting the 17.3million. Certainly not for 5 long years.

    Hammond is useless.

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    edited June 2017

    fitalass said:

    If tthe Cabinet had any sense right now they would not be on Leadership manouvres, but instead circling the might of their collective wagons around May and showing some bloody collective Government support! The Government is not one woman, its a team, and if that current team are not up to doing their day job they should think about moving to the backbenches not No10!

    Sadly they seem to lack sense but they also appear to suffer from a surfeit of personal ambition. I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that none of them give a d*mn but anything other than manoeuvres to get them a job which none of them seem capable of doing well.

    But at least it comes with a nice big salary!
    Beverley, totally agree. The Conservative party had a big decision to make at that 1922 meeting last Tuesday, either get behind May or tell her to tend her resignation. And it is they rather than May who appears to have failed at the first big test this Government has faced in light of the terrible tragedy that has unfolded in London. If ever there was a time to prove the strengths of having strong collective Cabinet leadership, its right now down there as the Capital gets to grips with the aftermath of that horrific fire and the devastation its wrought for the victims and their families and friends.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Twitter
    Metropolitan Police‏Verified account @metpoliceuk 6m6 minutes ago
    Police are on the scene and are dealing with a major incident in Seven Sisters Road http://news.met.police.uk/news/incident-in-seven-sisters-road-247036
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    BBC: major incident outside Finsbury Park tube station, possibly involving van being deliberately driven into people.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    HYUFD said:

    'Despite this, with Brexit negotiations due to begin today, the majority (52 per cent) believe Ms May is the party leader most trusted to negotiate the best deal compared with 39 per cent who back Mr Corbyn.
    More than half of voters (51 per cent) said they would now vote to remain in the EU, while 49% would vote to leave the bloc, the poll found.
    Voters said they would prefer a soft Brexit (55 per cent) compared to a hard Brexit (35 per cent), and more than half (57 per cent) were opposed to a second referendum at the end of the negotiations.
    The poll also found that 60 per cent would prefer a coalition to negotiate a Brexit deal, compared to 35 per cent who favoured the current Conservative-led government to lead talks.'
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-poll-lead-tories-latest-conservatives-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-grenfell-tower-dup-election-a7796516.html

    Higighting what a hyperbolic bubble the media lives in - and people on here.

    The capital "getting to grips with the aftermath" - not to demean this horrific incident, but London is a city of 10 million people and the overwhelming majority of them just had a very normal weekend. The media act as if when something likes this happens - like the terrorist incidents - the country comes to a halt. The Daily Mirror calling for a day of national mourning a perfect example. Sorry, no.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    How long are they going to keep faffing around? This situation will be horrible for negotiations: The British side will all be trying to undermine each other to position for the leadership, they'll be making up ludicrous red lines to satisfy the base and nobody will take anything May says seriously because they're not sure if she'll still be in the job in a fortnight. FFS.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    AndyJS said:

    BBC: major incident outside Finsbury Park tube station, possibly involving van being deliberately driven into people.

    That's the end of Grenfell then.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2017
    "A man who was mistaken for a Tory councillor and beaten up by activists who stormed Kensington Town Hall in the wake of the Grenfell Tower tragedy has been left injured and badly shaken by the incident."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/18/tory-councillor-beaten-grenfell-tower-protesters-revealed-volunteer/
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 613
    Seems van driver deliberately ran people over outside Finsbury Park Mosque....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    AndyJS said:

    "A man who was mistaken for a Tory councillor and beaten up by activists who stormed Kensington Town Hall in the wake of the Grenfell Tower tragedy has been left injured and badly shaken by the incident."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/18/tory-councillor-beaten-grenfell-tower-protesters-revealed-volunteer/

    Degenerates.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Mrs May has got more trouble on her hands.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540

    Mrs May has got more trouble on her hands.

    This will be her fault too. Unless you can emote to order in front of TV Cameras you're not fit to be PM, apparently......meanwhile Sadiq has been statesmanlike:

    The Grenfell Tower fire was a "preventable accident" caused by "years of neglect" by the local council and successive governments, Mayor of London Sadiq Khan has said.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40320459
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279

    Mrs May has got more trouble on her hands.

    This will be her fault too. Unless you can emote to order in front of TV Cameras you're not fit to be PM, apparently......meanwhile Sadiq has been statesmanlike:

    The Grenfell Tower fire was a "preventable accident" caused by "years of neglect" by the local council and successive governments, Mayor of London Sadiq Khan has said.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40320459
    You note that Sadiq missed out the fact that as London Mayor, he has been running London for the last year. Its all a bit like the SNP up here at Holyrood, when there is a problem, either blame the local councils or the Westminster Government. I did wonder why no one was asking why the London Mayor or his Office had not stepped up to the plate to show some Leadership considering their vital devolved role in running London.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    fitalass said:

    Mrs May has got more trouble on her hands.

    This will be her fault too. Unless you can emote to order in front of TV Cameras you're not fit to be PM, apparently......meanwhile Sadiq has been statesmanlike:

    The Grenfell Tower fire was a "preventable accident" caused by "years of neglect" by the local council and successive governments, Mayor of London Sadiq Khan has said.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40320459
    You note that Sadiq missed out the fact that as London Mayor, he has been running London for the last year. Its all a bit like the SNP up here at Holyrood, when there is a problem, either blame the local councils or the Westminster Government. I did wonder why no one was asking why the London Mayor or his Office had not stepped up to the plate to show some Leadership considering their vital devolved role in running London.
    Yes, but its progress on 'May has got blood on her hands' when she hasn't been directly involved in housing for three decades.....

    I think the govt was right to get the Red Cross to handle the Emergency Relief as it clearly had overwhelmed the RBKC - and there will be plenty of lessons to be learned going forward - and of course it doesn't help if Grenfell 'supporters' are beating up volunteers:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/18/tory-councillor-beaten-grenfell-tower-protesters-revealed-volunteer/
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    edited June 2017

    fitalass said:

    Mrs May has got more trouble on her hands.

    This will be her fault too. Unless you can emote to order in front of TV Cameras you're not fit to be PM, apparently......meanwhile Sadiq has been statesmanlike:

    The Grenfell Tower fire was a "preventable accident" caused by "years of neglect" by the local council and successive governments, Mayor of London Sadiq Khan has said.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40320459
    You note that Sadiq missed out the fact that as London Mayor, he has been running London for the last year. Its all a bit like the SNP up here at Holyrood, when there is a problem, either blame the local councils or the Westminster Government. I did wonder why no one was asking why the London Mayor or his Office had not stepped up to the plate to show some Leadership considering their vital devolved role in running London.
    Yes, but its progress on 'May has got blood on her hands' when she hasn't been directly involved in housing for three decades.....

    I think the govt was right to get the Red Cross to handle the Emergency Relief as it clearly had overwhelmed the RBKC - and there will be plenty of lessons to be learned going forward - and of course it doesn't help if Grenfell 'supporters' are beating up volunteers:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/18/tory-councillor-beaten-grenfell-tower-protesters-revealed-volunteer/
    Absolutely agree on getting the Red Cross involved to handle the Emergency Relief as it overwhelmed the RBKC. I could not believe one headline tonight I saw on twitter actually blaming the local council for not having the infrastructure on hand to deal with the utterly amazing and overwhelming flood of donations by those touched by this tragedy. I mean what did the media expect, that the local council has an emergency group of elves on hand to step in and take over from voluntary organisations dealing with these donations within three days despite charities telling people they had been overwhelmed?

    Yes there will be many lessons to be learned, but also worth remembering that many of the families effected by the Manchester and London terror attacks also had to wait days for confirmation that their loved ones had died in the aftermath because of proper due diligence by the authorities. Tragically, on top of everything else the families and friends of the victims have endured, the emergency services have had to make sure the tower block was made safe before the recovery of victims and investigation could continue.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Mrs May has got more trouble on her hands.

    This will be her fault too. Unless you can emote to order in front of TV Cameras you're not fit to be PM, apparently......meanwhile Sadiq has been statesmanlike:

    The Grenfell Tower fire was a "preventable accident" caused by "years of neglect" by the local council and successive governments, Mayor of London Sadiq Khan has said.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40320459
    .
    Yes, but its progress on 'May has got blood on her hands' when she hasn't been directly involved in housing for three decades.....

    I think the govt was right to get the Red Cross to handle the Emergency Relief as it clearly had overwhelmed the RBKC - and there will be plenty of lessons to be learned going forward - and of course it doesn't help if Grenfell 'supporters' are beating up volunteers:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/18/tory-councillor-beaten-grenfell-tower-protesters-revealed-volunteer/
    Absolutely agree on getting the Red Cross involved to handle the Emergency Relief as it overwhelmed the RBKC. I could not believe one headline tonight I saw on twitter actually blaming the local council for not having the infrastructure on hand to deal with the utterly amazing and overwhelming flood of donations by those touched by this tragedy. I mean what did the media expect, that the local council has an emergency group of elves on hand to step in and take over from voluntary organisations dealing with these donations within three days despite charities telling people they had been overwhelmed?

    Yes there will be many lessons to be learned, but also worth remembering that many of the families effected by the Manchester and London terror attacks also had to wait days for confirmation that their loved ones had died in the aftermath because of proper due diligence by the authorities. Tragically, on top of everything else for the families and friends had suffered, the emergency services had to make sure the tower block was made safe before the recovery of victims and investigation could continue.
    I wonder if the Mail pay as much attention to their readers' comments as Rebekah Brooks said the Sun did? If so they'll find diminishing sympathy for their May bashing....

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4615798/Grenfell-Tower-residents-5-500-TOMORROW.html#comments
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Mrs May has got more trouble on her hands.

    SNIP.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40320459
    .
    SNIP
    Absolutely agree on getting the Red Cross involved to handle the Emergency Relief as it overwhelmed the RBKC. I could not believe one headline tonight I saw on twitter actually blaming the local council for not having the infrastructure on hand to deal with the utterly amazing and overwhelming flood of donations by those touched by this tragedy. I mean what did the media expect, that the local council has an emergency group of elves on hand to step in and take over from voluntary organisations dealing with these donations within three days despite charities telling people they had been overwhelmed?

    Yes there will be many lessons to be learned, but also worth remembering that many of the families effected by the Manchester and London terror attacks also had to wait days for confirmation that their loved ones had died in the aftermath because of proper due diligence by the authorities. Tragically, on top of everything else for the families and friends had suffered, the emergency services had to make sure the tower block was made safe before the recovery of victims and investigation could continue.
    I wonder if the Mail pay as much attention to their readers' comments as Rebekah Brooks said the Sun did? If so they'll find diminishing sympathy for their May bashing....

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4615798/Grenfell-Tower-residents-5-500-TOMORROW.html#comments
    I checked yesterday when I felt the media treatment of Theresa May had by far surpassed their behaviour towards Gordon Brown after the letter he had written to a grieving relative that was then released and publicised. By yesterday, I felt the media's treatment of May over the last ten days had over taken that of even their behaviour towards the Royal Family following Diana's sudden tragic death...

    When the media are questioning a PM for not turning up and facing an angry mob 'to take her medicine' in front of their cameras, and then claiming she lacks empathy or the human touch because of that missed photo op for them then there is something very wrong. The Government have delivered a very detailed and tailor made aid package for the victims of this tragedy, they have implemented extra measures for all those that live in high block flats who might be effected or worried on top of an enquiry. This is on scale I have certainly not witnessed before, and I am just miles away from the devasting floods that effected my patch a year ago.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited June 2017
    ***** Betting Post *****

    The Daily Telegraph is tipping David Davis to become the next leader of the Conservative Party. Priced as short as 3/1 with Hills, he's available at stand-out odds of 9/2 with Marathon Bet and 7/2 generally elsewhere.
    DYOR.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    One man confirmed to have died

    Police have confirmed that one man was pronounced dead at the scene and eight were injured. In the first full update since the incident took place more than three hours ago, the Metropolitan Police put out a statement confirming that counter-terrorism police were investigating the crime.

    The injured have been taken to three separate hospitals; two people were treated at the scene for minor injuries.

    At this stage there are no reports of any persons having suffered any knife injuries. The driver of the van - a man aged 48 - was found detained by members of public at the scene and then arrested by police in connection with the incident. He has been taken to hospital as a precaution, and will be taken into custody once discharged. He will also be subject of a mental health assessment in due course.

    The statement said no other suspects at the scene have been identified or reported to police. “Due to the nature of this incident extra policing resources have been deployed in order to reassure communities, especially those observing Ramadan,” it said.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/19/north-london-van-incident-finsbury-park-casualties-collides-pedestrians-live-updates
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    edited June 2017

    ***** Betting Post *****

    The Daily Telegraph is tipping David Davis to become the next leader of the Conservative Party. Priced as short as 3/1 with Hills, he's available at stand-out odds of 9/2 with Marathon Bet and 7/2 generally elsewhere.
    DYOR.

    I don't need to do my own homework, as a paid up member of the Conservative party he ain't getting my vote just like he didn't get it last time. I have no time for mavericks that pull stunts like Davis, Boris or Zac. It also explains why they all struggle to provide a good but 'elected' backroom team to help their personal leadership endeavours. I didn't think that Davis was a good choice for taking on the difficult EU Brexit negociations due to his lack of ability and experience as a Minister, I would have much preferred either Osborne or Gove to get that job because I would have trusted them to deliver on it far more effectively.
  • fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Mrs May has got more trouble on her hands.

    SNIP.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40320459
    .
    SNIP
    Absolutely agree on getting the Red Cross involved to handle the Emergency Relief as it overwhelmed the RBKC. I could not believe one headline tonight I saw on twitter actually blaming the local council for not having the infrastructure on hand to deal with the utterly amazing and overwhelming flood of donations by those touched by this tragedy. I mean what did the media expect, that the local council has an emergency group of elves on hand to step in and take over from voluntary organisations dealing with these donations within three days despite charities telling people they had been overwhelmed?

    I wonder if the Mail pay as much attention to their readers' comments as Rebekah Brooks said the Sun did? If so they'll find diminishing sympathy for their May bashing....

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4615798/Grenfell-Tower-residents-5-500-TOMORROW.html#comments
    I checked yesterday when I felt the media treatment of Theresa May had by far surpassed their behaviour towards Gordon Brown after the letter he had written to a grieving relative that was then released and publicised. By yesterday, I felt the media's treatment of May over the last ten days had over taken that of even their behaviour towards the Royal Family following Diana's sudden tragic death...

    When the media are questioning a PM for not turning up and facing an angry mob 'to take her medicine' in front of their cameras, and then claiming she lacks empathy or the human touch because of that missed photo op for them then there is something very wrong. The Government have delivered a very detailed and tailor made aid package for the victims of this tragedy, they have implemented extra measures for all those that live in high block flats who might be effected or worried on top of an enquiry. This is on scale I have certainly not witnessed before, and I am just miles away from the devasting floods that effected my patch a year ago.
    I get the impression that the Daily Mail is convinced that the Tory government is dead and buried with May in charge and has therefore decided to stop at nothing in its objective to get her removed asap. The trouble is that along with just about everyone else, they have not yet decided who to put in her place - although as I've just posted here, The Daily Telegraph appears to have settled on David Davis.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540

    He has been taken to hospital as a precaution, and will be taken into custody once discharged. He will also be subject of a mental health assessment in due course.

    One advantage we still have over America is UK Juries are a lot less likely to fall for accept a 'twinkie defence' and that victims and alleged perpetrators should both have reasonable expectations of justice. I remember one memorable line from the movie Bernie from a townsperson complaining that a trial had been shifted to a neighbouring hamlet where 'Forgive me, but the jurors have more tattoos than teeth and are very close to their cousins....'
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    The Surbiton poll is very interesting with respect to the Labour landslide meme so popular on here.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    felix said:

    The Surbiton poll is very interesting with respect to the Labour landslide meme so popular on here.

    Labour GAIN landslide win in Surbiton !!!!!!!!

    Put Margot and Jerry on suicide watch ....
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited June 2017
    JackW said:

    felix said:

    The Surbiton poll is very interesting with respect to the Labour landslide meme so popular on here.

    Labour GAIN landslide win in Surbiton !!!!!!!!

    Put Margot and Jerry on suicide watch ....
    Am I not right in thinking that at the start of The Good Life, Tom and Barbara have paid off the mortgage on what would now be a £1 to £2 million house before sole breadwinner Tom is 30?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    JackW said:

    felix said:

    The Surbiton poll is very interesting with respect to the Labour landslide meme so popular on here.

    Labour GAIN landslide win in Surbiton !!!!!!!!

    Put Margot and Jerry on suicide watch ....
    Am I not right in thinking that at the start of The Good Life, Tom and Barbara have paid off the mortgage on what would now be a £1 to £2 million house before sole breadwinner Tom is 30?
    It was a comedy show - not real life
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    felix said:

    The Surbiton poll is very interesting with respect to the Labour landslide meme so popular on here.

    Labour GAIN landslide win in Surbiton !!!!!!!!

    Put Margot and Jerry on suicide watch ....
    Am I not right in thinking that at the start of The Good Life, Tom and Barbara have paid off the mortgage on what would now be a £1 to £2 million house before sole breadwinner Tom is 30?
    Not quite. Tom Good's 40th birthday begins his journey to self sufficiency.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    I have to say I am getting seriously worried. They are all posturing on Brexit - Johnson, Davis and now the supposedly sensible one, Philip Hammond. On the Labour side you have Corbyn and Macdonnell who make it clear Brexit is just a bargaining chip for their advantage. Only Kier Starmer appears to be concerned about getting a decent Brexit arrangement, and no-one is paying HIM any attention.

    We're heading in a Greek trap, revolving government and all. The UK is facing a much more severe humiliation than Suez.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/03/31/the-european-union-lays-out-a-greek-trap-for-the-united-kingdom/
    Except the UK is the 5th largest economy in the world not the 50th largest economy like Greece. It is though possible we may be in for the same round of elections, in 2012 there were two general elections in Greece which the conservative National Democracy narrowly won, in 2015 there were two general elections which the populist leftwing Syriza won and now the latest polls have National Democracy back in front in the polls again
    Bit behind the times, we are down to 8th and on a downward trajectory, can Tories not just tell the truth.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    felix said:

    JackW said:

    felix said:

    The Surbiton poll is very interesting with respect to the Labour landslide meme so popular on here.

    Labour GAIN landslide win in Surbiton !!!!!!!!

    Put Margot and Jerry on suicide watch ....
    Am I not right in thinking that at the start of The Good Life, Tom and Barbara have paid off the mortgage on what would now be a £1 to £2 million house before sole breadwinner Tom is 30?
    It was a comedy show - not real life
    It shows house-price inflation since then.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    felix said:

    The Surbiton poll is very interesting with respect to the Labour landslide meme so popular on here.

    Labour GAIN landslide win in Surbiton !!!!!!!!

    Put Margot and Jerry on suicide watch ....
    Am I not right in thinking that at the start of The Good Life, Tom and Barbara have paid off the mortgage on what would now be a £1 to £2 million house before sole breadwinner Tom is 30?
    Not quite. Tom Good's 40th birthday begins his journey to self sufficiency.
    Even so, and allowing for Tom being on a fair old screw as chief designer, it is not bad going.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,669
    fitalass said:

    ***** Betting Post *****

    The Daily Telegraph is tipping David Davis to become the next leader of the Conservative Party. Priced as short as 3/1 with Hills, he's available at stand-out odds of 9/2 with Marathon Bet and 7/2 generally elsewhere.
    DYOR.

    I don't need to do my own homework, as a paid up member of the Conservative party he ain't getting my vote just like he didn't get it last time. I have no time for mavericks that pull stunts like Davis, Boris or Zac. It also explains why they all struggle to provide a good but 'elected' backroom team to help their personal leadership endeavours. I didn't think that Davis was a good choice for taking on the difficult EU Brexit negociations due to his lack of ability and experience as a Minister, I would have much preferred either Osborne or Gove to get that job because I would have trusted them to deliver on it far more effectively.
    Do you think you will get the chance to vote? Might Davis be installed as an 'interim' leader without a full leadership election?
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    felix said:

    JackW said:

    felix said:

    The Surbiton poll is very interesting with respect to the Labour landslide meme so popular on here.

    Labour GAIN landslide win in Surbiton !!!!!!!!

    Put Margot and Jerry on suicide watch ....
    Am I not right in thinking that at the start of The Good Life, Tom and Barbara have paid off the mortgage on what would now be a £1 to £2 million house before sole breadwinner Tom is 30?
    It was a comedy show - not real life
    Yes, but it wasn't viewed as wildly improbable then. It's illustrative of the different lifestyle enjoyed by the middle class then. Housing is the political issue of our time, not Brexit or terrorism
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    fitalass said:

    "Infamy, infamy, they’ve all got it in for May"

    I wonder when the penny is going to start dropping with some key figures in the Cabinent and on the backbenches that both the Labour party and the media overplayed their hand in the way they have treated Theresa May over the last ten days? And I say that as someone who was never a big fan of May and remained a very vocal critic on here almost from the moment she was elected right up until the GE. But the way this awful tragedy has been politically weaponised and turned into such a media feeding frenzy is bad enough, but to then have media literally demanding that May get out among the crowds so they can film and report the public backlash is far worse than their behaviour to the Royal family after Diana's death.

    If the Cabinet had any sense right now they would not be on Leadership manouvres, but instead circling the might of their collective wagons around May and showing some bloody collective Government support! The Government is not one woman, its a team, and if that current team are not up to doing their day job they should think about moving to the backbenches not No10!

    LOL, the view from a Tory worshipper, only a zealot could come out with mince like that.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    fitalass said:

    MikeL said:

    May will be fairly happy with that - lead slightly down since immediately after the election, majority think she should stay.
    Indeed - after the last few days it might have been thought both Con and May ratings would have collapsed.

    But they haven't.

    Proof if any were needed that literally anything could happen - in the short term, let alone in 5 years time.
    There is a good reason that their ratings have not collapsed, and that is because the media have overplayed their hand in their treatment of May over the last ten days. As one journalist reported, 'the optics of this looked terrible for May as she was bundled into a car'. But from further a field, the optics of the way the media have treateded May by trying to dehumanise her look even worse. Any Cabinet Minister on Leadership manouvres instead of taking some collective Cabinet responsible and doing their bit won't be getting my vote anytime soon.
    Bet that has them worried, some hick from the wilds of Scotland not voting for them will have them trembling in their hand made shoes
  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171
    fitalass said:

    Mrs May has got more trouble on her hands.

    This will be her fault too. Unless you can emote to order in front of TV Cameras you're not fit to be PM, apparently......meanwhile Sadiq has been statesmanlike:

    The Grenfell Tower fire was a "preventable accident" caused by "years of neglect" by the local council and successive governments, Mayor of London Sadiq Khan has said.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40320459
    You note that Sadiq missed out the fact that as London Mayor, he has been running London for the last year. Its all a bit like the SNP up here at Holyrood, when there is a problem, either blame the local councils or the Westminster Government. I did wonder why no one was asking why the London Mayor or his Office had not stepped up to the plate to show some Leadership considering their vital devolved role in running London.
    What Khan said yesterday was extraordinary..If London had a Tory mayor he would have got slaughtered yet Khan can do nothing to help and just blame the government
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Mrs May has got more trouble on her hands.

    SNIP.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40320459
    .
    SNIP
    I wonder if the Mail pay as much attention to their readers' comments as Rebekah Brooks said the Sun did? If so they'll find diminishing sympathy for their May bashing....

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4615798/Grenfell-Tower-residents-5-500-TOMORROW.html#comments
    I checked yesterday when I felt the media treatment of Theresa May had by far surpassed their behaviour towards Gordon Brown after the letter he had written to a grieving relative that was then released and publicised. By yesterday, I felt the media's treatment of May over the last ten days had over taken that of even their behaviour towards the Royal Family following Diana's sudden tragic death...

    When the media are questioning a PM for not turning up and facing an angry mob 'to take her medicine' in front of their cameras, and then claiming she lacks empathy or the human touch because of that missed photo op for them then there is something very wrong. The Government have delivered a very detailed and tailor made aid package for the victims of this tragedy, they have implemented extra measures for all those that live in high block flats who might be effected or worried on top of an enquiry. This is on scale I have certainly not witnessed before, and I am just miles away from the devasting floods that effected my patch a year ago.
    Theresa leave it to Carlotta to support you as normal, posting yourself is really desperate
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    currystar said:

    fitalass said:

    Mrs May has got more trouble on her hands.

    This will be her fault too. Unless you can emote to order in front of TV Cameras you're not fit to be PM, apparently......meanwhile Sadiq has been statesmanlike:

    The Grenfell Tower fire was a "preventable accident" caused by "years of neglect" by the local council and successive governments, Mayor of London Sadiq Khan has said.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40320459
    You note that Sadiq missed out the fact that as London Mayor, he has been running London for the last year. Its all a bit like the SNP up here at Holyrood, when there is a problem, either blame the local councils or the Westminster Government. I did wonder why no one was asking why the London Mayor or his Office had not stepped up to the plate to show some Leadership considering their vital devolved role in running London.
    What Khan said yesterday was extraordinary..If London had a Tory mayor he would have got slaughtered yet Khan can do nothing to help and just blame the government
    Pathetic performance even by his standards, people in London must be either pretty stupid or desperate to elect such a nonentity.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,669
    fitalass said:

    "Infamy, infamy, they’ve all got it in for May"

    I wonder when the penny is going to start dropping with some key figures in the Cabinent and on the backbenches that both the Labour party and the media overplayed their hand in the way they have treated Theresa May over the last ten days? And I say that as someone who was never a big fan of May and remained a very vocal critic on here almost from the moment she was elected right up until the GE. But the way this awful tragedy has been politically weaponised and turned into such a media feeding frenzy is bad enough, but to then have media literally demanding that May get out among the crowds so they can film and report the public backlash is far worse than their behaviour to the Royal family after Diana's death.

    If the Cabinet had any sense right now they would not be on Leadership manouvres, but instead circling the might of their collective wagons around May and showing some bloody collective Government support! The Government is not one woman, its a team, and if that current team are not up to doing their day job they should think about moving to the backbenches not No10!

    The election was fought as though the government was one woman,
    Sometimes a Battlebus can be used as shorthand for a whole campaign.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited June 2017

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    felix said:

    The Surbiton poll is very interesting with respect to the Labour landslide meme so popular on here.

    Labour GAIN landslide win in Surbiton !!!!!!!!

    Put Margot and Jerry on suicide watch ....
    Am I not right in thinking that at the start of The Good Life, Tom and Barbara have paid off the mortgage on what would now be a £1 to £2 million house before sole breadwinner Tom is 30?
    Not quite. Tom Good's 40th birthday begins his journey to self sufficiency.
    Even so, and allowing for Tom being on a fair old screw as chief designer, it is not bad going.
    Indeed.

    However real term price inflation in leafy London suburbs has been gigantic over the past 50 years. We also don't know any inheritance(s) that may have assisted them.

    Also it was the Good Life not Real Life (Jim but not as we know it)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Not for the first time, a poll result turns out to be counter-intuitive.

    My guess is that some voters think the bashing of the PM has been over the top.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    currystar said:

    fitalass said:

    Mrs May has got more trouble on her hands.

    This will be her fault too. Unless you can emote to order in front of TV Cameras you're not fit to be PM, apparently......meanwhile Sadiq has been statesmanlike:

    The Grenfell Tower fire was a "preventable accident" caused by "years of neglect" by the local council and successive governments, Mayor of London Sadiq Khan has said.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40320459
    You note that Sadiq missed out the fact that as London Mayor, he has been running London for the last year. Its all a bit like the SNP up here at Holyrood, when there is a problem, either blame the local councils or the Westminster Government. I did wonder why no one was asking why the London Mayor or his Office had not stepped up to the plate to show some Leadership considering their vital devolved role in running London.
    What Khan said yesterday was extraordinary..If London had a Tory mayor he would have got slaughtered yet Khan can do nothing to help and just blame the government
    I see the whining whinging Tory SNP hater at it again, look in the mirror , get a heart rather than worshipping at the poor being hammered by you smug Tories as you fill your pockets and whine about the peasants having TV's and smoking.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    May will be fairly happy with that - lead slightly down since immediately after the election, majority think she should stay.
    Nick - you forgot to include the smiley icon to show you were trolling. :)

    May happy bring 3 points behind? Now she really is toast.
    Yes, she and any other PM would be.

    Oppositions tend take leads over government during the years before an election - Labour under Corbyn even led polls when Cameron was PM. Given everything that has happened, I'm very shocked the lead is only 3 points. Given the mess the stories are in, I thought Labour would at least maintain/increase their previous lead.

    Remember, that Ed Miliband's Labour often led the government in polls by around 5 points, with it peaking to 8-9 points at one stage in 2011. Historically, this has been not unusual, and it's usually been the case that the opposition is likely to go on and win the GE when they have a double digit lead over the government.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Sean_F said:

    Not for the first time, a poll result turns out to be counter-intuitive.

    My guess is that some voters think the bashing of the PM has been over the top.

    Were there approval ratings in this Survation poll?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    Yes, David Davis until April 2019. Does the hard stuff. Gracefully steps down. Draws the poison. Develops the next generation of talent. Goes down in history.

    The Tories can then select a newer charismatic, optimistic, leader for the subsequent election.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    I have to say I am getting seriously worried. They are all posturing on Brexit - Johnson, Davis and now the supposedly sensible one, Philip Hammond. On the Labour side you have Corbyn and Macdonnell who make it clear Brexit is just a bargaining chip for their advantage. Only Kier Starmer appears to be concerned about getting a decent Brexit arrangement, and no-one is paying HIM any attention.

    We're heading in a Greek trap, revolving government and all. The UK is facing a much more severe humiliation than Suez.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/03/31/the-european-union-lays-out-a-greek-trap-for-the-united-kingdom/
    Except the UK is the 5th largest economy in the world not the 50th largest economy like Greece. It is though possible we may be in for the same round of elections, in 2012 there were two general elections in Greece which the conservative National Democracy narrowly won, in 2015 there were two general elections which the populist leftwing Syriza won and now the latest polls have National Democracy back in front in the polls again
    Bit behind the times, we are down to 8th and on a downward trajectory, can Tories not just tell the truth.
    Source?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    Sean_F said:

    Not for the first time, a poll result turns out to be counter-intuitive.

    My guess is that some voters think the bashing of the PM has been over the top.

    Under done for me, should be tar and feathers.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    Not for the first time, a poll result turns out to be counter-intuitive.

    My guess is that some voters think the bashing of the PM has been over the top.

    Under done for me, should be tar and feathers.
    Surely that should be reserved for the worst performer at the GE?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    edited June 2017

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    I have to say I am getting seriously worried. They are all posturing on Brexit - Johnson, Davis and now the supposedly sensible one, Philip Hammond. On the Labour side you have Corbyn and Macdonnell who make it clear Brexit is just a bargaining chip for their advantage. Only Kier Starmer appears to be concerned about getting a decent Brexit arrangement, and no-one is paying HIM any attention.

    We're heading in a Greek trap, revolving government and all. The UK is facing a much more severe humiliation than Suez.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/03/31/the-european-union-lays-out-a-greek-trap-for-the-united-kingdom/
    Except the UK is the 5th largest economy in the world not the 50th largest economy like Greece. It is though possible we may be in for the same round of elections, in 2012 there were two general elections in Greece which the conservative National Democracy narrowly won, in 2015 there were two general elections which the populist leftwing Syriza won and now the latest polls have National Democracy back in front in the polls again
    Bit behind the times, we are down to 8th and on a downward trajectory, can Tories not just tell the truth.
    Source?
    read it somewhere yesterday , whether I will ever be able to find it though is another question
    PS. May have been on purchasing power rather than nominal, however we are not heading for the stars , it is downhill all the way and will be nominal soon if not already.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    JackW said:

    Sean_F said:

    Not for the first time, a poll result turns out to be counter-intuitive.

    My guess is that some voters think the bashing of the PM has been over the top.

    Were there approval ratings in this Survation poll?
    No, but the number wanting her to stay on as PM rose from 39% last week to 48% now.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Sean_F said:

    Not for the first time, a poll result turns out to be counter-intuitive.

    My guess is that some voters think the bashing of the PM has been over the top.

    Were there approval ratings in this Survation poll?
    No, but the number wanting her to stay on as PM rose from 39% last week to 48% now.
    Thanks Sean.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    ***** Betting Post *****

    The Daily Telegraph is tipping David Davis to become the next leader of the Conservative Party. Priced as short as 3/1 with Hills, he's available at stand-out odds of 9/2 with Marathon Bet and 7/2 generally elsewhere.
    DYOR.

    Unless you think the Tories are going to hand over the reins to Jezza you can find longer odds in the next PM market than next Tory leader. DD 5/1 Corals.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    edited June 2017

    malcolmg said:

    Sean_F said:

    Not for the first time, a poll result turns out to be counter-intuitive.

    My guess is that some voters think the bashing of the PM has been over the top.

    Under done for me, should be tar and feathers.
    Surely that should be reserved for the worst performer at the GE?
    Surely you are not trying to lie about the only leader than won more than 50% of the seats available. You Tories cannot imagine winning more than 50% , it is always with a minority that you supposedly win. Ha Ha Ha !
    PS: I see now that it is daylight your alter ego fitalaff has retired
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,192
    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Sean_F said:

    Not for the first time, a poll result turns out to be counter-intuitive.

    My guess is that some voters think the bashing of the PM has been over the top.

    Were there approval ratings in this Survation poll?
    No, but the number wanting her to stay on as PM rose from 39% last week to 48% now.
    Alot of people who don't support her do want Brexit to be tied around hers and the Tories necks. They must own it.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Sean_F said:

    Not for the first time, a poll result turns out to be counter-intuitive.

    My guess is that some voters think the bashing of the PM has been over the top.

    Were there approval ratings in this Survation poll?
    No, but the number wanting her to stay on as PM rose from 39% last week to 48% now.
    Alot of people who don't support her do want Brexit to be tied around hers and the Tories necks. They must own it.
    Wishful thinking is not evidence. There are plenty for whom Corbyn is toxic not least in the PLP.
This discussion has been closed.