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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,426
    edited July 2017
    felix said:

    surbiton said:

    Who does Andrea Loathsome think she is ?

    Dunno - as thick as Diane Abacus perhaps?
    Careful, Owen Jones will be calling you a racist and if Corbyn becomes PM you'll be going to the gulag for that.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,426

    Mr. Eagles, errant apostrophe there. Should've paid more attention to your English ;)

    What errant apostrophe?

    I'm blaming auto-correct for that.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    Can't really imagine George ever taking Uber tbh!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    Mr. B, I erroneously thought it'd be uncontroversial to say writers should be judged on the quality of their writing and nobody should be discriminated against.

    Mr. Eagles, the Latin predates the French, though I'm not surprised by your lack of Roman knowledge.

    I have an A* in Latin when GCSEs were difficult.
    The extent of my latin..... Semper ubi, sub ubi :D
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    geoffw said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:



    Justin has a habit of wishing that people were maimed/dead.

    If I recollect, he has a streak of kindness.

    He was only planning to disinherit his niece whom he suspected of voting Conservative.
    As it happens, she didn't in the end so her legacy is safe.
    You can't be sure unless you watched her fill in and post a PV.
    That is the case with all voters. I am relying on what her parents reported - both of whom did vote Tory.
    But surely her parents will want to protect her valuable legacy ....

    NIECE: "Of course, Uncle Justin, I voted for Corby. Just ask Mam and Dad"

    BROTHER-IN-LAW. "Oh yes, Justin, she voted Labour all right" (winks at niece)." No need to call the solicitor to change the will."
    None of them have any idea that she has one coming from me!
    You would be surprised at the gossip in familes about a wealthy and eccentric relative.
    As it happens 75% of my estate is destined for various charities!
    The Friends of Elderly Islington Jam Makers?
    I am not a Corbyn fan.
    So you don't like Corbyn, think Blair should be in prison... anyoen you do rate?
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,291

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    geoffw said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:



    Justin has a habit of wishing that people were maimed/dead.

    If I recollect, he has a streak of kindness.

    He was only planning to disinherit his niece whom he suspected of voting Conservative.
    As it happens, she didn't in the end so her legacy is safe.
    You can't be sure unless you watched her fill in and post a PV.
    That is the case with all voters. I am relying on what her parents reported - both of whom did vote Tory.
    But surely her parents will want to protect her valuable legacy ....

    NIECE: "Of course, Uncle Justin, I voted for Corby. Just ask Mam and Dad"

    BROTHER-IN-LAW. "Oh yes, Justin, she voted Labour all right" (winks at niece)." No need to call the solicitor to change the will."
    None of them have any idea that she has one coming from me!
    You would be surprised at the gossip in familes about a wealthy and eccentric relative.
    As it happens 75% of my estate is destined for various charities!
    Well my charity is and will always be my family
    That is fair enough. However, I am not really a believer in inherited wealth on any great scale, and am leaving open the option of changing my will so as bequeath 100% to charities.
    Justin - you have every right to your opinion on inherited wealth which I respect but why would I leave my estate to a charity who may or may not use the money wisely rather than your family who can then decide how they wish to use it.
    I can see why from your point of view that is the right thing to do BigG but on a macro level I do think inheritied wealth has a corrosive influence on society; it entrenches inequality across the generations. I think the only answer is to tax inheritance, which we do of course, but the very wealthy find all sorts of ways to bypass that. Wish I knew the answer.
    The problem is that inheritance tax is as big a vote loser as the dementia tax and Corbyn will find out if he ever puts forward the LVT or confirms he will abolish inheritance tax relief.

    However, there must be a way of taking more from the extreme wealthy on their death.

  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    felix said:

    surbiton said:

    Who does Andrea Loathsome think she is ?

    Dunno - as thick as Diane Abacus perhaps?
    So she thinks that she is as thick as Abacus ?
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    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    geoffw said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:



    Justin has a habit of wishing that people were maimed/dead.



    He was only planning to disinherit his niece whom he suspected of voting Conservative.
    As it happens, she didn't in the end so her legacy is safe.
    You can't be sure unless you watched her fill in and post a PV.
    That is the case with all voters. I am relying on what her parents reported - both of whom did vote Tory.
    But surely her parents will want to protect her valuable legacy ....

    NIECE: "Of course, Uncle Justin, I voted for Corby. Just ask Mam and Dad"

    BROTHER-IN-LAW. "Oh yes, Justin, she voted Labour all right" (winks at niece)." No need to call the solicitor to change the will."
    None of them have any idea that she has one coming from me!
    You would be surprised at the gossip in familes about a wealthy and eccentric relative.
    As it happens 75% of my estate is destined for various charities!
    Well my charity is and will always be my family
    That is fair enough. However, I am not really a believer in inherited wealth on any great scale, and am leaving open the option of changing my will so as bequeath 100% to charities.
    Justin - you have every right to your opinion on inherited wealth which I respect but why would I leave my estate to a charity who may or may not use the money wisely rather than your family who can then decide how they wish to use it.
    I can see why from your point of view that is the right thing to do BigG but on a macro level I do think inheritied wealth has a corrosive influence on society; it entrenches inequality across the generations. I think the only answer is to tax inheritance, which we do of course, but the very wealthy find all sorts of ways to bypass that. Wish I knew the answer.
    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    F1: still can't see anything. Waiting for the match bets on Ladbrokes.

    Think the race is nicely poised, even with the cop out by the stewards, but finding value seems tricky.
  • Options

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    geoffw said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:



    Justin has a habit of wishing that people were maimed/dead.



    He was only planning to disinherit his niece whom he suspected of voting Conservative.
    As it happens, she didn't in the end so her legacy is safe.
    You can't be sure unless you watched her fill in and post a PV.
    That is the case with all voters. I am relying on what her parents reported - both of whom did vote Tory.
    That is fair enough. However, I am not really a believer in inherited wealth on any great scale, and am leaving open the option of changing my will so as bequeath 100% to charities.
    Justin - you have every right to your opinion on inherited wealth which I respect but why would I leave my estate to a charity who may or may not use the money wisely rather than your family who can then decide how they wish to use it.
    I can see why from your point of view that is the right thing to do BigG but on a macro level I do think inheritied wealth has a corrosive influence on society; it entrenches inequality across the generations. I think the only answer is to tax inheritance, which we do of course, but the very wealthy find all sorts of ways to bypass that. Wish I knew the answer.
    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.
    Edited to fix numpty posting too early

    The wealth my lads hopefully inherit from us is something I see as far from corrosive. It will give them life chances and opportunities I never had a hope of having.
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    TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    edited July 2017

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    The wealth my lads hopefully inherit from us is something I see as far from corrosive. It will give them life chances and opportunities I never had a hope of having.
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    Bollocks. Posting on a phone and can't get the quoting formatted.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    @TFS: I reformatted your post. Hope it's what you were going for :smile:
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited July 2017

    Mr. B, I erroneously thought it'd be uncontroversial to say writers should be judged on the quality of their writing and nobody should be discriminated against.

    Mr. Eagles, the Latin predates the French, though I'm not surprised by your lack of Roman knowledge.

    I have an A* in Latin when GCSEs were difficult.
    GCSEs were only difficult when they were 'O' levels and not combined with CSEs.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I can understand that, as things get easier for us, me and the Mrs are starting to live a little. I still want to give the lads chances I never had. The eldest has just got a BSc, the first in our wider family to get a degree. The middle lad should follow suit next year and the youngest starts an electrical engineering apprenticeship in September. I just want to give them a step up that I never had.
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    rcs1000 said:

    @TFS: I reformatted your post. Hope it's what you were going for :smile:

    Perfect, ta!
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I can understand that, as things get easier for us, me and the Mrs are starting to live a little. I still want to give the lads chances I never had. The eldest has just got a BSc, the first in our wider family to get a degree. The middle lad should follow suit next year and the youngest starts an electrical engineering apprenticeship in September. I just want to give them a step up that I never had.
    Good for you. Frankly, if my children actually did what I asked them (politely) to do occasionally, I might be minded to be similarly generous.
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    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I can understand that, as things get easier for us, me and the Mrs are starting to live a little. I still want to give the lads chances I never had. The eldest has just got a BSc, the first in our wider family to get a degree. The middle lad should follow suit next year and the youngest starts an electrical engineering apprenticeship in September. I just want to give them a step up that I never had.
    Good for you. Frankly, if my children actually did what I asked them (politely) to do occasionally, I might be minded to be similarly generous.
    Yours are only young though, aren't they? Mine have definitely had their moments, and 3 teenage lads going through puberty very close to each other was a minefield of teenage angst. The little feckers are all Corbynistas as well!
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,612

    Mr. B, I erroneously thought it'd be uncontroversial to say writers should be judged on the quality of their writing and nobody should be discriminated against.

    Mr. Eagles, the Latin predates the French, though I'm not surprised by your lack of Roman knowledge.

    I have an A* in Latin when GCSEs were difficult.
    GCSEs were only difficult when they were 'O' levels and not combined with CSEs.
    And we didn't need silly A* grades because an A actually meant something.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653

    You can read the FT story for free by googling

    'Conservatives fear descent into chaotic leadership battle'

    Confirms (or repeats) James Forsyth's story in The Sun:

    Senior members of the 1922 committee of backbench Conservative MPs have made it clear to Mrs May that she has a duty to country and party to stay on as prime minister to see through Brexit, which is due to take effect in March 2019.

    They have also conveyed to Mrs May their view that she should publicly denounce — if necessary — any leadership plotters. “If she does that, there will be cheering from the backbenches,” says one Tory MP.

    Most Conservatives have concluded they need to rally round Mrs May, both to deliver Brexit and to prevent the turmoil of a leadership contest.


    https://www.ft.com/content/6f5ea78a-67cd-11e7-8526-7b38dcaef614?mhq5j=e1

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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Wonderful of Jeremy Corbyn telling Blair/clegg to respect the referendum result.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I had a couple of relatives who did that. They reckoned they'd live to their late 80's so spent up. Actually they both survived into their mid to late 90's somewhat short of cash!
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,942

    If you wanted (further) proof that IDS is a hypocritical bellend who is thick as pigshit.....

    https://twitter.com/StevePeers/status/886170945123168256

    Logically the two positions are completely consistent. If the EU is equated with Hitler then leaving the EU simply cannot be equated with appeasement. Indeed staying in would be the appeasement route.

    Of course this all depends on the original connection being valid but if one does accept that as he apparently does on some level then his position is utterly consistent and not hypocritical at all.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Mr. B, I erroneously thought it'd be uncontroversial to say writers should be judged on the quality of their writing and nobody should be discriminated against.

    Mr. Eagles, the Latin predates the French, though I'm not surprised by your lack of Roman knowledge.

    I have an A* in Latin when GCSEs were difficult.
    GCSEs were only difficult when they were 'O' levels and not combined with CSEs.
    Indeed so - the GCSE came in at the time the system of Relative Marking was replaced by the current Absolute Marking approach. This also applied to A levels and suddenly we found circa 25% of A level students being awarded A grades compared with 10% under the old system.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I had a couple of relatives who did that. They reckoned they'd live to their late 80's so spent up. Actually they both survived into their mid to late 90's somewhat short of cash!
    That is quite common. People often radically underestimate their likely life expectancy. Natural pessimism is unhelpful here.

    We should be thinking that reaching our 90s is normal. We might not make it but planning without that possibility in mind is reckless if you don't have very specific reasons for thinking otherwise.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    geoffw said:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:



    Justin has a habit of wishing that people were maimed/dead.

    If I recollect, he has a streak of kindness.

    He was only planning to disinherit his niece whom he suspected of voting Conservative.
    As it happens, she didn't in the end so her legacy is safe.
    You can't be sure unless you watched her fill in and post a PV.
    That is the case with all voters. I am relying on what her parents reported - both of whom did vote Tory.
    But surely her parents will want to protect her valuable legacy ....

    NIECE: "Of course, Uncle Justin, I voted for Corby. Just ask Mam and Dad"

    BROTHER-IN-LAW. "Oh yes, Justin, she voted Labour all right" (winks at niece)." No need to call the solicitor to change the will."
    None of them have any idea that she has one coming from me!
    You would be surprised at the gossip in familes about a wealthy and eccentric relative.
    As it happens 75% of my estate is destined for various charities!
    The Friends of Elderly Islington Jam Makers?
    I am not a Corbyn fan.
    So you don't like Corbyn, think Blair should be in prison... anyoen you do rate?
    I quite rate John Cruddas from present day politicians. My political heroes are Attlee - Wilson - Barbara Castle. I also regretted that Bryan Gould never became party leader.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    What would the result of the 8th June general election have been if Andrea Leadsom had been Tory leader instead of Theresa May? She's not as robotic as May, if that was the main problem.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Meeks, I agree. The consequences of being old with no money are rather worse than being old with money.

    Besides, I'd want to leave something behind for others (not that I have kids). Not wanting to do that seems a bit odd to me, but there we are.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited July 2017

    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I had a couple of relatives who did that. They reckoned they'd live to their late 80's so spent up. Actually they both survived into their mid to late 90's somewhat short of cash!
    That is quite common. People often radically underestimate their likely life expectancy. Natural pessimism is unhelpful here.

    We should be thinking that reaching our 90s is normal. We might not make it but planning without that possibility in mind is reckless if you don't have very specific reasons for thinking otherwise.
    I have just reached the grand age of 63 and have discovered that as late as 1945 that 63 was the average life expectancy for a male in the UK. I was reflecting on this last night as I listened to the wonderful tenor voices of Fritz Wunderlich and John McCormack who died at the ages of 35 and 62 respectively in 1966 and 1945 . Whilst I am in apparent reasonable health I decided some time ago that if diagnosed with something nasty requiring Chemotherapy I would forego the offer of treatment and not seek to extend my stay here beyond what nature intended. I suppose I have 'packed my bags' and am 'ready for the call' whenever that might be!
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    TonyETonyE Posts: 938

    Mr. B, I erroneously thought it'd be uncontroversial to say writers should be judged on the quality of their writing and nobody should be discriminated against.

    Mr. Eagles, the Latin predates the French, though I'm not surprised by your lack of Roman knowledge.

    I have an A* in Latin when GCSEs were difficult.
    GCSEs were only difficult when they were 'O' levels and not combined with CSEs.
    And we didn't need silly A* grades because an A actually meant something.
    I was one of the first group of people to be awarded an A* (mine was Maths) - to this day I think the entire move to GCSE, the A* grade and everything that went with it was total rubbish. It was another chapter in the rapid decline of education.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I had a couple of relatives who did that. They reckoned they'd live to their late 80's so spent up. Actually they both survived into their mid to late 90's somewhat short of cash!
    That is quite common. People often radically underestimate their likely life expectancy. Natural pessimism is unhelpful here.

    We should be thinking that reaching our 90s is normal. We might not make it but planning without that possibility in mind is reckless if you don't have very specific reasons for thinking otherwise.
    Seems unambitious to me.
    I'm planning on dramatic improvements in medical science.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    You can read the FT story for free by googling

    'Conservatives fear descent into chaotic leadership battle'

    Confirms (or repeats) James Forsyth's story in The Sun:

    Senior members of the 1922 committee of backbench Conservative MPs have made it clear to Mrs May that she has a duty to country and party to stay on as prime minister to see through Brexit, which is due to take effect in March 2019.

    They have also conveyed to Mrs May their view that she should publicly denounce — if necessary — any leadership plotters. “If she does that, there will be cheering from the backbenches,” says one Tory MP...



    Publicly denouncing half the cabinet might be counterproductive, though.
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    SirBenjaminSirBenjamin Posts: 238



    We should be thinking that reaching our 90s is normal. We might not make it but planning without that possibility in mind is reckless if you don't have very specific reasons for thinking otherwise.


    I'm a one-man obesity crisis, so really not banking on lasting that long...
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Nigelb said:

    You can read the FT story for free by googling

    'Conservatives fear descent into chaotic leadership battle'

    Confirms (or repeats) James Forsyth's story in The Sun:

    Senior members of the 1922 committee of backbench Conservative MPs have made it clear to Mrs May that she has a duty to country and party to stay on as prime minister to see through Brexit, which is due to take effect in March 2019.

    They have also conveyed to Mrs May their view that she should publicly denounce — if necessary — any leadership plotters. “If she does that, there will be cheering from the backbenches,” says one Tory MP...



    Publicly denouncing half the cabinet might be counterproductive, though.
    It can be done.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiWJWLCoH2M
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I had a couple of relatives who did that. They reckoned they'd live to their late 80's so spent up. Actually they both survived into their mid to late 90's somewhat short of cash!
    That is quite common. People often radically underestimate their likely life expectancy. Natural pessimism is unhelpful here.

    We should be thinking that reaching our 90s is normal. We might not make it but planning without that possibility in mind is reckless if you don't have very specific reasons for thinking otherwise.
    Seems unambitious to me.
    I'm planning on dramatic improvements in medical science.
    Its not longevity its quality of life, that can disapear at any age. God help me if i have to live another five years and im only 63
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    betting Post

    F1: pre-race ramble up here:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/united-kingdom-pre-race-2017.html

    To be honest, this is the sort of race I probably wouldn't bet on if I didn't offer a tip for every race. So I went for something very exciting. Super thrilling, even (no, not the safety car).
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    So it is possible to become a senior government politician and still have no self awareness whatsoever.
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I had a couple of relatives who did that. They reckoned they'd live to their late 80's so spent up. Actually they both survived into their mid to late 90's somewhat short of cash!
    That is quite common. People often radically underestimate their likely life expectancy. Natural pessimism is unhelpful here.

    We should be thinking that reaching our 90s is normal. We might not make it but planning without that possibility in mind is reckless if you don't have very specific reasons for thinking otherwise.
    Seems unambitious to me.
    I'm planning on dramatic improvements in medical science.
    Medical improvements only serve really to prolong the life of people in poor health.....

    If you want to prolong the length of time you are in good health become a vegetarian, walk 20,00 steps a day and drink 2 units of alcohol a day...and hope that your genes do not carry a faulty imprint.....
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Do we have a date for the coronation of Comrade Cable?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    nichomar said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I had a couple of relatives who did that. They reckoned they'd live to their late 80's so spent up. Actually they both survived into their mid to late 90's somewhat short of cash!
    That is quite common. People often radically underestimate their likely life expectancy. Natural pessimism is unhelpful here.

    We should be thinking that reaching our 90s is normal. We might not make it but planning without that possibility in mind is reckless if you don't have very specific reasons for thinking otherwise.
    Seems unambitious to me.
    I'm planning on dramatic improvements in medical science.
    Its not longevity its quality of life, that can disapear at any age. God help me if i have to live another five years and im only 63
    All this is true, but my tongue was only slightly in cheek.
    I was probably born too early to benefit, but I seriously think that my kids' generation will see the possibility of life beyond 120 (which will create its own set of problems...). Meanwhile, I'm staying as healthy as I can without eschewing completely the pleasures of life.
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Nigelb said:

    nichomar said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I had a couple of relatives who did that. They reckoned they'd live to their late 80's so spent up. Actually they both survived into their mid to late 90's somewhat short of cash!
    That is quite common. People often radically underestimate their likely life expectancy. Natural pessimism is unhelpful here.

    We should be thinking that reaching our 90s is normal. We might not make it but planning without that possibility in mind is reckless if you don't have very specific reasons for thinking otherwise.
    Seems unambitious to me.
    I'm planning on dramatic improvements in medical science.
    Its not longevity its quality of life, that can disapear at any age. God help me if i have to live another five years and im only 63
    All this is true, but my tongue was only slightly in cheek.
    I was probably born too early to benefit, but I seriously think that my kids' generation will see the possibility of life beyond 120 (which will create its own set of problems...). Meanwhile, I'm staying as healthy as I can without eschewing completely the pleasures of life.
    Good for you its the ravages of dementia that make life intolerable and not worth living. I just fill my time reading posts here and elsewhere because there is nothing else to do,
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Nichomar, my sympathies. My grandpa had Alzheimer's. I hope you're having a less bad time of it.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,418
    edited July 2017
    nichomar said:

    Nigelb said:

    nichomar said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I had a couple of relatives who did that. They reckoned they'd live to their late 80's so spent up. Actually they both survived into their mid to late 90's somewhat short of cash!
    That is quite common. People often radically underestimate their likely life expectancy. Natural pessimism is unhelpful here.

    We should be thinking that reaching our 90s is normal. We might not make it but planning without that possibility in mind is reckless if you don't have very specific reasons for thinking otherwise.
    Seems unambitious to me.
    I'm planning on dramatic improvements in medical science.
    Its not longevity its quality of life, that can disapear at any age. God help me if i have to live another five years and im only 63
    All this is true, but my tongue was only slightly in cheek.
    I was probably born too early to benefit, but I seriously think that my kids' generation will see the possibility of life beyond 120 (which will create its own set of problems...). Meanwhile, I'm staying as healthy as I can without eschewing completely the pleasures of life.
    Good for you its the ravages of dementia that make life intolerable and not worth living. I just fill my time reading posts here and elsewhere because there is nothing else to do,
    Some people believe that 120 years is the natural lifespan. And it happens by programmed cell death, or apoptosis. You are healthy and active right up to that point, then one day you just expire when you're meant to go. It's a wonderful liberating concept if you think about it.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,942
    tyson said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I had a couple of relatives who did that. They reckoned they'd live to their late 80's so spent up. Actually they both survived into their mid to late 90's somewhat short of cash!
    That is quite common. People often radically underestimate their likely life expectancy. Natural pessimism is unhelpful here.

    We should be thinking that reaching our 90s is normal. We might not make it but planning without that possibility in mind is reckless if you don't have very specific reasons for thinking otherwise.
    Seems unambitious to me.
    I'm planning on dramatic improvements in medical science.
    Medical improvements only serve really to prolong the life of people in poor health.....

    If you want to prolong the length of time you are in good health become a vegetarian, walk 20,00 steps a day and drink 2 units of alcohol a day...and hope that your genes do not carry a faulty imprint.....
    I think you are wrong on this. I am not sure I have anything other than circumstantial evidence but the fact is that male life expectancy in the UK has increased by just under 2 days a week since the end of WW2. For women it is even better. And this is not just people living longer in poor health. A sixty year old is in far better health today than they were in 1946. This is in spite of us living more unhealthy lifestyles and doing less exercise.

    An obvious example is cancer where 30 or 40 years ago it was considered a death sentence and now is something people regularly make a complete recovery from.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    nichomar said:

    Nigelb said:

    nichomar said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I had a couple of relatives who did that. They reckoned they'd live to their late 80's so spent up. Actually they both survived into their mid to late 90's somewhat short of cash!
    That is quite common. People often radically underestimate their likely life expectancy. Natural pessimism is unhelpful here.

    We should be thinking that reaching our 90s is normal. We might not make it but planning without that possibility in mind is reckless if you don't have very specific reasons for thinking otherwise.
    Seems unambitious to me.
    I'm planning on dramatic improvements in medical science.
    Its not longevity its quality of life, that can disapear at any age. God help me if i have to live another five years and im only 63
    All this is true, but my tongue was only slightly in cheek.
    I was probably born too early to benefit, but I seriously think that my kids' generation will see the possibility of life beyond 120 (which will create its own set of problems...). Meanwhile, I'm staying as healthy as I can without eschewing completely the pleasures of life.
    Good for you its the ravages of dementia that make life intolerable and not worth living. I just fill my time reading posts here and elsewhere because there is nothing else to do,
    You have my sincere sympathy. My father is similarly afflicted, but at a far later stage.
    It is a brutal disease.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,288
    Racism against Volvo drivers!

    We bought a Volvo in 2003, and changed it for a newer model in 2013!
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Mr. Nichomar, my sympathies. My grandpa had Alzheimer's. I hope you're having a less bad time of it.

    Its a lonely life you do your best but its never good enough. This was the reult of cardiac arrest during a minor operation three years ago. We were on the verge of enjoying our retirement together after 40 years and its all gone
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,150
    @nichomar I'm sorry to hear of your plight. At least you can be amused or infuriated with these discussions I suppose.
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    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited July 2017

    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I had a couple of relatives who did that. They reckoned they'd live to their late 80's so spent up. Actually they both survived into their mid to late 90's somewhat short of cash!
    That is quite common. People often radically underestimate their likely life expectancy. Natural pessimism is unhelpful here.

    We should be thinking that reaching our 90s is normal. We might not make it but planning without that possibility in mind is reckless if you don't have very specific reasons for thinking otherwise.
    I ignore my birthdays pretty much, but others sometimes don't. I stopped counting, mostly, when my age reached my diastolic blood pressure.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    Racism against Volvo drivers!

    We bought a Volvo in 2003, and changed it for a newer model in 2013!

    That statement made think of the Bev and Kev advert:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsd2oOoXM9Q

    Olivia Colman has gone far.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    geoffw said:

    @nichomar I'm sorry to hear of your plight. At least you can be amused or infuriated with these discussions I suppose.

    At times im completley amazed at how strongly people hold their views, i always thought that political debate should be civilised and about facts and issues but some on here do not listen to the responses they provoc. Nobody has the answer to all things so its up to reasonable human beings to debate in a civilised manner. A bit of humility wouldnt go amiss
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Toms said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I had a couple of relatives who did that. They reckoned they'd live to their late 80's so spent up. Actually they both survived into their mid to late 90's somewhat short of cash!
    That is quite common. People often radically underestimate their likely life expectancy. Natural pessimism is unhelpful here.

    We should be thinking that reaching our 90s is normal. We might not make it but planning without that possibility in mind is reckless if you don't have very specific reasons for thinking otherwise.
    I ignore my birthdays pretty much, but others sometimes don't. I stopped counting, mostly, when my age reached my diastolic blood pressure.
    You have low blood pressure ?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Twitter spat update: apparently women writers don't dominate in romance the way mean do in sci-fi/fantasy because when men write romance it's called 'literature'.

    I have to go shortly, but did enjoy pointing out 1/20 Amazon bestseller romance writers are male, whereas women writers are 8/20 sci-fi and 12/20 fantasy.

    Apologies for being utterly OT but the sheer intransigence and unwillingness to consider men might possibly not have an advantage (someone literally blamed men for being in a majority of SFF writers *and* for being in a minority of romance writers) was quite irksome.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    nichomar said:

    geoffw said:

    @nichomar I'm sorry to hear of your plight. At least you can be amused or infuriated with these discussions I suppose.

    At times im completley amazed at how strongly people hold their views, i always thought that political debate should be civilised and about facts and issues but some on here do not listen to the responses they provoc. Nobody has the answer to all things so its up to reasonable human beings to debate in a civilised manner. A bit of humility wouldnt go amiss
    I'd agree with all that - and hold my hand up to being a flippant so and so from time to time.

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Nichomar, I'm terribly sorry. :(
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    TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    edited July 2017
    Scott_P said:
    Nobody puts baby Britain in the corner.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Mr. Nichomar, I'm terribly sorry. :(

    Thanks for the thoughts we cope as best we can and on the whole its tollerable its just difficult to plan for the future.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Nichomar, :(

    Alas, I do have to be off.
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    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited July 2017
    surbiton said:

    Toms said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I had a couple of relatives who did that. They reckoned they'd live to their late 80's so spent up. Actually they both survived into their mid to late 90's somewhat short of cash!
    That is quite common. People often radically underestimate their likely life expectancy. Natural pessimism is unhelpful here.

    We should be thinking that reaching our 90s is normal. We might not make it but planning without that possibility in mind is reckless if you don't have very specific reasons for thinking otherwise.
    I ignore my birthdays pretty much, but others sometimes don't. I stopped counting, mostly, when my age reached my diastolic blood pressure.
    You have low blood pressure ?
    Fundamentally no. I'm highly strung and chase (sic) releases, things like exercise, diet, & low salt.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Survation , anyone ?
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Mr. Nichomar, :(

    Alas, I do have to be off.

    Anybody in a similar poition please email me on mark.nicholson18@yahoo.com so we can share experiences etc
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060
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    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    justin124 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'll inherit very little from my mum when she goes. We were not the most well off of families, my parents rented council properties all their life, so no house to leave, perhaps a few grand in savings. I've not done too bad for myself, so will leave our 3 boys a house and some savings, maybe even a rental property or 2 if some plans come off. If i thought the fucking government wanted to take an even bigger chunk of what I've earned, I'll do everything possible to give the lads their due now.

    I'm hoping that the last cheque I write bounces. I don't plan on leaving anything to my children or the state. I plan on enjoying every last penny of my money.
    I had a couple of relatives who did that. They reckoned they'd live to their late 80's so spent up. Actually they both survived into their mid to late 90's somewhat short of cash!
    That is quite common. People often radically underestimate their likely life expectancy. Natural pessimism is unhelpful here.

    We should be thinking that reaching our 90s is normal. We might not make it but planning without that possibility in mind is reckless if you don't have very specific reasons for thinking otherwise.
    I have just reached the grand age of 63 and have discovered that as late as 1945 that 63 was the average life expectancy for a male in the UK. I was reflecting on this last night as I listened to the wonderful tenor voices of Fritz Wunderlich and John McCormack who died at the ages of 35 and 62 respectively in 1966 and 1945 . Whilst I am in apparent reasonable health I decided some time ago that if diagnosed with something nasty requiring Chemotherapy I would forego the offer of treatment and not seek to extend my stay here beyond what nature intended. I suppose I have 'packed my bags' and am 'ready for the call' whenever that might be!
    When I worked in one of the major pension providers a few years ago, I can remember one of the senior board members giving a speech saying that the first person to live to 150 had already been born. On the other hand, my father died at 92, with severe dementia, unable to remember how to walk, speak, eat as well as the normal procedures to evacuate the bowel and bladder.

    Sort of concentrates the mind....
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279

    SNIP

    Confirms (or repeats) James Forsyth's story in The Sun:

    Senior members of the 1922 committee of backbench Conservative MPs have made it clear to Mrs May that she has a duty to country and party to stay on as prime minister to see through Brexit, which is due to take effect in March 2019.

    They have also conveyed to Mrs May their view that she should publicly denounce — if necessary — any leadership plotters. “If she does that, there will be cheering from the backbenches,” says one Tory MP.

    Most Conservatives have concluded they need to rally round Mrs May, both to deliver Brexit and to prevent the turmoil of a leadership contest.


    https://www.ft.com/content/6f5ea78a-67cd-11e7-8526-7b38dcaef614?mhq5j=e1

    1922 Committee and backbenchers get it even if certain Cabinet Ministers do not. The backbenchers do not want another GE anytime soon, and certainly not before Brexit. May is not going to lead the Conservatives into the next GE, but now having made the decision to stick with May until after Brexit, there is no upside for the PCP to then leave either her premiership or the Government further weakened or undermined by the three key Cabinet Leadership plotters who are hardly setting the heather on fire in their own day jobs right now.

    Time for May to end media narrative she is weak, she should start by reasserting herself as PM and party leader by making it clear there is no vacancy in No10. And she specifically needs to put Johnson, Davis and Hammond on notice to get back to their day jobs or face being replaced because they are currently the three weakest links in the Cabinet. Personally I would get rid of the three of them right now, especially if I had the backing of the 1922/backbenchers. Its also time to bring back some of the talented junior Ministers who were despatched back to the backbenches when May became Leader because they were regarded as being too close to Osborne. A move like that might even garner a few more favourable headlines from the Evening Standard among other media outlets.

    May not only needs a strong Chancellor with their own handpicked team, but also a politically astute one who will put party before ambition and work closely with No10. Hammond is not that politician. As we saw with Cameron and Osborne, its far better to work closely together than be constantly at odds with each on key issues. Gove is wasted right now, I always believed that Davis was the wrong choice as Brexit Minister, replace him Gove who has a far more impressive Ministerial back story and let him get on with it. And I would bring Anna Soubry into that Gove team to spice things up. The last thing the PCP need is for May to limp over the summer towards the Conference season, instead they need to back her so she arrives there strenghened and clearly in charge of her Government and her party.
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483


    Confirms (or repeats) James Forsyth's story in The Sun:

    Senior members of the 1922 committee of backbench Conservative MPs have made it clear to Mrs May that she has a duty to country and party to stay on as prime minister to see through Brexit, which is due to take effect in March 2019.

    They have also conveyed to Mrs May their view that she should publicly denounce — if necessary — any leadership plotters. “If she does that, there will be cheering from the backbenches,” says one Tory MP.

    Most Conservatives have concluded they need to rally round Mrs May, both to deliver Brexit and to prevent the turmoil of a leadership contest.


    https://www.ft.com/content/6f5ea78a-67cd-11e7-8526-7b38dcaef614?mhq5j=e1



    1922 Committee and backbenchers get it even if certain Cabinet Ministers do not. The backbenchers do not want another GE anytime soon, and certainly not before Brexit. May is not going to lead the Conservatives into the next GE, but now having made the decision to stick with May until after Brexit, there is no upside for the PCP to then leave either her premiership or the Government further weakened or undermined by the three key Cabinet Leadership plotters who are hardly setting the heather on fire in their own day jobs right now.

    Time for May to end media narrative she is weak, she should start by reasserting herself as PM and party leader by making it clear there is no vacancy in No10. And she specifically needs to put Johnson, Davis and Hammond on notice to get back to their day jobs or face being replaced because they are currently the three weakest links in the Cabinet. Personally I would get rid of the three of them right now, especially if I had the backing of the 1922/backbenchers. Its also time to bring back some of the talented junior Ministers who were despatched back to the backbenches when May became Leader because they were regarded as being too close to Osborne. A move like that might even garner a few more favourable headlines from the Evening Standard among other media outlets.

    May not only needs a strong Chancellor with their own handpicked team, but also a politically astute one who will put party before ambition and work closely with No10. Hammond is not that politician. As we saw with Cameron and Osborne, its far better to work closely together than be constantly at odds with each on key issues. Gove is wasted right now, I always believed that Davis was the wrong choice as Brexit Minister, replace him Gove who has a far more impressive Ministerial back story and let him get on with it. And I would bring Anna Soubry into that Gove team to spice things up. The last thing the PCP need is for May to limp over the summer towards the Conference season, instead they need to back her so she arrives there strenghened and clearly in charge of her Government and her party.


    A sensible well thought out post
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    felix said:

    surbiton said:

    Who does Andrea Loathsome think she is ?

    Dunno - as thick as Diane Abacus perhaps?
    Careful, Owen Jones will be calling you a racist and if Corbyn becomes PM you'll be going to the gulag for that.
    1. Don't live in the UK

    2. DGAF!
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    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    fitalass said:

    SNIP

    Confirms (or repeats) James Forsyth's story in The Sun:

    Senior member
    1922 Committee and backbenchers get it even if certain Cabinet Ministers do not. The backbenchers do not want another GE anytime soon, and certainly not before Brexit. May is not going to lead the Conservatives into the next GE, but now having made the decision to stick with May until after Brexit, there is no upside for the PCP to then leave either her premiership or the Government further weakened or undermined by the three key Cabinet Leadership plotters who are hardly setting the heather on fire in their own day jobs right now.

    Time for May to end media narrative she is weak, she should start by reasserting herself as PM and party leader by making it clear there is no vacancy in No10. And she specifically needs to put Johnson, Davis and Hammond on notice to get back to their day jobs or face being replaced because they are currently the three weakest links in the Cabinet. Personally I would get rid of the three of them right now, especially if I had the backing of the 1922/backbenchers. Its also time to bring back some of the talented junior Ministers who were despatched back to the backbenches when May became Leader because they were regarded as being too close to Osborne. A move like that might even garner a few more favourable headlines from the Evening Standard among other media outlets.

    May not only needs a strong Chancellor with their own handpicked team, but also a politically astute one who will put party before ambition and work closely with No10. Hammond is not that politician. As we saw with Cameron and Osborne, its far better to work closely together than be constantly at odds with each on key issues. Gove is wasted right now, I always believed that Davis was the wrong choice as Brexit Minister, replace him Gove who has a far more impressive Ministerial back story and let him get on with it. And I would bring Anna Soubry into that Gove team to spice things up. The last thing the PCP need is for May to limp over the summer towards the Conference season, instead they need to back her so she arrives there strenghened and clearly in charge of her Government and her party.


    Unfortunately, I have to agree with many of the points made, not, may I add, nastily, but as the preservation of the Tory Party in government rather than for the good of the country.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    @fitalass

    Dr Liam Fox is the weakest member of the cabinet. His job is the most important in the cabinet, much more so than David Davis. And he is failing badly.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,426
    From the former Chief of Staff of David Davis

    https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/886307642276290560
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    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    Absolutely cracking men's doubles finals at Wimbledon. Could have watched that all day. Feels like I have, in fact ...
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    Mate...go to a specialised unit with children that have profound brain damage but can breath of their own accord... It is really grim. Elderly units or stroke centres where we keep people who can breath alive by tube feeding them are horrific enough. But to see young people and adolescents in this condition, young people who cannot eat, severely brain damaged, doubly incontinent...a consequence of tube feeding is diarrhoea.... in constant torment, crying and screaming...you get the picture....But their vital organs work so they carry on....

    Charlie Gard's saving is that his vital organs do not work on their own so the doctors can mercifully put him (and his parents) out of his and their suffering.....
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    edited July 2017
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,426
    So what's your expertise on EU matters?
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    tyson said:

    Mate...go to a specialised unit with children that have profound brain damage but can breath of their own accord... It is really grim. Elderly units or stroke centres where we keep people who can breath alive by tube feeding them are horrific enough. But to see young people and adolescents in this condition, young people who cannot eat, severely brain damaged, doubly incontinent...a consequence of tube feeding is diarrhoea.... in constant torment, crying and screaming...you get the picture....But their vital organs work so they carry on....

    Charlie Gard's saving is that his vital organs do not work on their own so the doctors can mercifully put him (and his parents) out of his and their suffering.....

    I feel really sorry for the parents of Charlie Gard. But there is a time when you have to just let go.

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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    So what's your expertise on EU matters?

    My expertise with bullies is that you should never, ever, give in to them.

    If the EU want to be reasonable, then we should be reasonable. But if not...

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    tyson said:

    Mate...go to a specialised unit with children that have profound brain damage but can breath of their own accord... It is really grim. Elderly units or stroke centres where we keep people who can breath alive by tube feeding them are horrific enough. But to see young people and adolescents in this condition, young people who cannot eat, severely brain damaged, doubly incontinent...a consequence of tube feeding is diarrhoea.... in constant torment, crying and screaming...you get the picture....But their vital organs work so they carry on....

    Charlie Gard's saving is that his vital organs do not work on their own so the doctors can mercifully put him (and his parents) out of his and their suffering.....

    I feel really sorry for the parents of Charlie Gard. But there is a time when you have to just let go.

    35 years ago, my sister made the decision to let her 54 hour old daughter go. That decision has shaped the rest of her life. Whilst understanding the legal arguments, I'd never second guess Charlie's parents. There but for the grace of a god I don't believe in etc.etc.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,426

    So what's your expertise on EU matters?

    My expertise with bullies is that you should never, ever, give in to them.

    If the EU want to be reasonable, then we should be reasonable. But if not...

    So eff all then? Thought as much.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    tyson said:

    Mate...go to a specialised unit with children that have profound brain damage but can breath of their own accord... It is really grim. Elderly units or stroke centres where we keep people who can breath alive by tube feeding them are horrific enough. But to see young people and adolescents in this condition, young people who cannot eat, severely brain damaged, doubly incontinent...a consequence of tube feeding is diarrhoea.... in constant torment, crying and screaming...you get the picture....But their vital organs work so they carry on....

    Charlie Gard's saving is that his vital organs do not work on their own so the doctors can mercifully put him (and his parents) out of his and their suffering.....
    Sometimes doctors get things wrong such as the lad with cancer who went to the Czech Republic for proton beam therapy. But that's cancer and if someone wants to try something - and they're paying - then let them.

    But this is different. I don't want to sound harsh, but Charlie Gard's parents should be grateful that he can be allowed to die. I really think they should be careful what they wish for.

    What really worries me is that this will be putting pressure on other parents a in similar situation.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    So what's your expertise on EU matters?

    My expertise with bullies is that you should never, ever, give in to them.

    If the EU want to be reasonable, then we should be reasonable. But if not...

    So eff all then? Thought as much.

    Mr Eagles, why so upset? We have voted for Brexit, and now we must away. Surely, at this point, Leavers and Remainers should come together to get the best possible deal?

    Someone telling us we need to kowtow to the EU is not going to help. Nor should we listen to them.

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,426
    Dear French government.

    The UK and its government is already on this

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/886323815273418753
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,426
    edited July 2017

    So what's your expertise on EU matters?

    My expertise with bullies is that you should never, ever, give in to them.

    If the EU want to be reasonable, then we should be reasonable. But if not...

    So eff all then? Thought as much.

    Mr Eagles, why so upset? We have voted for Brexit, and now we must away. Surely, at this point, Leavers and Remainers should come together to get the best possible deal?

    Someone telling us we need to kowtow to the EU is not going to help. Nor should we listen to them.

    Because I'm sick to death of the smears aimed at people who are doing their best or talking about their experience.

    It's the same nonsense we saw aimed at the judiciary when they were labelled as enemies of the people by Leavers, then Leavers wonder why others in politics start criticising the judge in charge of the Grenfell inquiry.

    You sir are an enabler of Corbyn and his mob.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    So what's your expertise on EU matters?

    My expertise with bullies is that you should never, ever, give in to them.

    If the EU want to be reasonable, then we should be reasonable. But if not...

    So eff all then? Thought as much.

    Mr Eagles, why so upset? We have voted for Brexit, and now we must away. Surely, at this point, Leavers and Remainers should come together to get the best possible deal?

    Someone telling us we need to kowtow to the EU is not going to help. Nor should we listen to them.

    Because I'm sick to death of the smears aimed at people who are doing their best or talking about their experience.

    It's the same nonsense we saw aimed at the judiciary when they were labelled as enemies of the people by Leavers, then Leavers wonder why others in politics start criticising the judge in charge of the Grenfell inquiry.

    You sir are an enabler of Corbyn and his mob.

    Not a smear. I was simply pointing out that someone (probably) has a bias and that (likely) what they are saying is not in our national interest.

    I was very unhappy with the legal attempt against the referendum, and it seemed an attempt to block democracy. I don't see the connection with the criticisms against the Grenfell judge (which seem par for the course these days).

    People fed up with the current situation and an establishment that doesn't care are enablers of Corbyn, TMay's crap manifesto was an enabler of Corbyn, people wanting to believe lies is an enabler of Corbyn.

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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060

    From the former Chief of Staff of David Davis

    https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/886307642276290560

    Sensible Brexit is a non-starter. It's Brexit or bust.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,942

    So what's your expertise on EU matters?

    My expertise with bullies is that you should never, ever, give in to them.

    If the EU want to be reasonable, then we should be reasonable. But if not...

    So eff all then? Thought as much.

    Mr Eagles, why so upset? We have voted for Brexit, and now we must away. Surely, at this point, Leavers and Remainers should come together to get the best possible deal?

    Someone telling us we need to kowtow to the EU is not going to help. Nor should we listen to them.

    Because I'm sick to death of the smears aimed at people who are doing their best or talking about their experience.

    It's the same nonsense we saw aimed at the judiciary when they were labelled as enemies of the people by Leavers, then Leavers wonder why others in politics start criticising the judge in charge of the Grenfell inquiry.

    You sir are an enabler of Corbyn and his mob.
    But of course your smears and unfounded accusations are all okay? Just like the 'enabler of Corbyn' comment to finish your sordid little posting. You are a fucking hypocrite and should be ashamed.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,426
    edited July 2017
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,426
    Another briefing against Phil Hammond

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/886330517104283653
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    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    The question now is,in the zombie phase of this coalition of chaos,WTF is Gove up to?He 's on Murdoch's strings and Mrs Gove can clearly pass instructions on from Dacre,yet the evidence from the last few days' copy is that neither is very happy.Gove himself has gone under the radar.I sense Gove loves plotting and ,like Baldrick,he'll be hatching yet another cunning plan.His last one ended up with Mrs May.
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    From the former Chief of Staff of David Davis

    https://twitter.com/jameschappers/status/886307642276290560

    Sensible Brexit is a non-starter. It's Brexit or bust.
    Your version of the EU is probably unacceptable to the vast majority of our country. There is a definite case for the EU, probably one that could have seen us stay in the EU, but yours ain't it.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,291
    Time for them all to go on holiday - mind you train drivers turning down £75, 000 pa would tend to give some credence to some in the public sector being paid very well indeed
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,426
    SURVATION POLL

    Our latest Poll for the Mail on Sunday.

    Labour are two points ahead of the Conservatives, with the parties on 41% and 39%, respectively

    Majority of public still say Theresa May should resign, by 45% to 40%

    Voters are divided on what kind of Brexit they want: 34% say we should leave the customs union altogether, 24% say we should pay for access to the customs union, 27% say we should stop Brexit altogether and 15% say don't know

    There is steady support for a referendum on any EU deal, with 46% in favour and 39% against

    Other topics covered in the polling include: Conservative party leadership succession, perceptions of Brexit negotiations and public opinion of the UK's prospects after EU exit.

    Sample size: 1,024 Fieldwork dates: 14th - 15th July 2017 Method: UK adults ages 18+ surveyed online Full tables available here.

    Our latest poll for the Mail on Sunday has further tracked public opinion on the state of the parties and on Brexit.

    State of the Parties Lab 41% (-4); CON 39% (NC); LD 8% (+1); UKIP 6%* (+2); Others 6% (+1)
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,426
    Voters are still split on how they would vote if there was a rerun of 2016’s EU referendum, with 48% saying they would vote leave, 47% remain and 5% undecided.

    If there were another referendum on the UK’s membership of the EU, how would you vote? Leave 48% Remain 47% Undecided 5% (With undecided removed) Leave 50% (+1) Remain 50% (-1)
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    This will snowball. Briefings against cabinet colleagues all round - toxic for the tory party because the public at large begin to associate 'Tories' as a whole as being sleazy/nasty - just like the late 90s.

    After the election I thought it would be May staying on that slowly retoxifes the tories. I am thinking now that it will be her cabinet, and she may come out smelling relatively like roses. The more they burn each other the safer she is, and the better she will look in comparison (much like in 2016, all her rivals kamikazed and she was the only one left standing).
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