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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    For those who think the UK's 2040 electric car target overly ambitious, China looks to be aiming to get there sooner....
    http://insideevs.com/excluding-tesla-global-automakers-demand-that-china-eases-impossible-electric-car-regulations/

    Regulation or no regulation, if electric cars are cheaper than petrol ones, have similar range, better performance and lower running costs, then the market for petrol cars is going to be very small indeed.
    There's a fair few conditionals in that statement.

    You also missed 'and we have charging points outside every home' ;)
    Apparently, we already have a system for transporting electrical energy around the country...

    More seriously, the price and efficiency of batteries (which is the only thing that matters) is coming down all the time. I've seen presentations from various battery manufacturers, and they all seem confident that we'll continue to see the same steady progress in terms of energy density and cost.

    I got a Tesla Roadster seven years ago when it first came out. The battery pack did 210 miles. They'll now swap it out for a cheaper, identically dimensioned one, that will do 340 miles.
    There's s system for transporting oil and gas around the country ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLH_Pipeline_System
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_oil_pipeline_network

    ;)

    How much did your Roadster cost?

    The new Tesla model 3 highlights the problem. It's expensive compared to the everyday cars most people run, and the low-cost base model is fairly knobbled.

    As for having seen presentations from battery manufacturers that are confident ... well, yes, they would. You are, AIUI, involved in finance, and they want finance. I've been around and about the industry for a couple of decades, and every year must have seen several claims of improved battery tech. Yet the tech just dribbles improvements slowly.

    I'm hopeful that one of the new techs that are regularly splurted over the media will fix all energy storage problems. But they may not, and then it's a case of choosing which one of all the myriad of contenders is the real deal.
    Take out the early adopter premium and add in some decent economies of scale, and revise total cost of ownership downwards for reduced servicing costs plus (initially) favourable tax treatment, and cost is presumably not much of an issue.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,987
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    For those who think the UK's 2040 electric car target overly ambitious, China looks to be aiming to get there sooner....
    http://insideevs.com/excluding-tesla-global-automakers-demand-that-china-eases-impossible-electric-car-regulations/

    Regulation or no regulation, if electric cars are cheaper than petrol ones, have similar range, better performance and lower running costs, then the market for petrol cars is going to be very small indeed.
    There's a fair few conditionals in that statement.

    You also missed 'and we have charging points outside every home' ;)
    Apparently, we already have a system for transporting electrical energy around the country...

    More seriously, the price and efficiency of batteries (which is the only thing that matters) is coming down all the time. I've seen presentations from various battery manufacturers, and they all seem confident that we'll continue to see the same steady progress in terms of energy density and cost.

    I got a Tesla Roadster seven years ago when it first came out. The battery pack did 210 miles. They'll now swap it out for a cheaper, identically dimensioned one, that will do 340 miles.
    There's s system for transporting oil and gas around the country ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLH_Pipeline_System
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_oil_pipeline_network

    ;)

    How much did your Roadster cost?

    The new Tesla model 3 highlights the problem. It's expensive compared to the everyday cars most people run, and the low-cost base model is fairly knobbled.

    As for having seen presentations from battery manufacturers that are confident ... well, yes, they would. You are, AIUI, involved in finance, and they want finance. I've been around and about the industry for a couple of decades, and every year must have seen several claims of improved battery tech. Yet the tech just dribbles improvements slowly.

    I'm hopeful that one of the new techs that are regularly splurted over the media will fix all energy storage problems. But they may not, and then it's a case of choosing which one of all the myriad of contenders is the real deal.
    https://thinkprogress.org/chart-of-the-month-driven-by-tesla-battery-prices-cut-in-half-since-2014-718752a30a42/
    Surely that's just increased demand and production, not massively new tech?
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,203

    The US system unlike ours has no real method for removing a sitting President during his term on simple grounds that he is just crap. Not sick or crooked, but just useless.

    I can't think of any historical parallel. Is there one?

    Um, Jeremy Corbyn?
    Yeah, he was so crap all he could achieve was to piss all over Weak & Wobbly's Thatcher v2.0 fantasies ;)
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    rcs1000 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    For those who think the UK's 2040 electric car target overly ambitious, China looks to be aiming to get there sooner....
    http://insideevs.com/excluding-tesla-global-automakers-demand-that-china-eases-impossible-electric-car-regulations/

    Regulation or no regulation, if electric cars are cheaper than petrol ones, have similar range, better performance and lower running costs, then the market for petrol cars is going to be very small indeed.
    There's a fair few conditionals in that statement.

    You also missed 'and we have charging points outside every home' ;)
    Apparently, we already have a system for transporting electrical energy around the country...

    More seriously, the price and efficiency of batteries (which is the only thing that matters) is coming down all the time. I've seen presentations from various battery manufacturers, and they all seem confident that we'll continue to see the same steady progress in terms of energy density and cost.

    I got a Tesla Roadster seven years ago when it first came out. The battery pack did 210 miles. They'll now swap it out for a cheaper, identically dimensioned one, that will do 340 miles.
    You have to ask to what extent this is just switching from burning 95 octane unleaded in cars to burning coal in power stations. And yes I know China has made great strides in renewables, but it's still 66% coal powered.
    Coal is priced out of the UK electricity market, because coal fired power stations have higher capital and maintenance costs than natural gas ones, are far less flexible, and because natural gas is likely to be cheaper than coal in the UK for many decades.

    You can make the argument that we're moving from petrol to natural gas*; but that's still the right move because natural gas is incredibly abundant relative to oil.

    * And that ignores the fact that renewables are getting cheaper all the time too. And that they are a perfect fit for recharging batteries.
    Yeah I meant China, not us.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,888
    Awesome article linked by @MyBurningEars on the previous thread, about Tony Bloom and his Starlizard betting syndicate. Well worth a (long) read.
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/inside-story-star-lizard-tony-bloom-2016-2
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,552
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    For those who think the UK's 2040 electric car target overly ambitious, China looks to be aiming to get there sooner....
    http://insideevs.com/excluding-tesla-global-automakers-demand-that-china-eases-impossible-electric-car-regulations/

    Regulation or no regulation, if electric cars are cheaper than petrol ones, have similar range, better performance and lower running costs, then the market for petrol cars is going to be very small indeed.
    There's a fair few conditionals in that statement.

    You also missed 'and we have charging points outside every home' ;)
    Apparently, we already have a system for transporting electrical energy around the country...

    More seriously, the price and efficiency of batteries (which is the only thing that matters) is coming down all the time. I've seen presentations from various battery manufacturers, and they all seem confident that we'll continue to see the same steady progress in terms of energy density and cost.

    I got a Tesla Roadster seven years ago when it first came out. The battery pack did 210 miles. They'll now swap it out for a cheaper, identically dimensioned one, that will do 340 miles.
    Incremental improvements aren't going to stop any time soon - and the ultra large manufacturing facilities being built will lower costs significantly within the next two or three years.
    There is also the possibility of significant breakthroughs in workable battery chemistries - zinc/air being an interesting example, which might be relatively close:
    http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.nanolett.6b03691
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    There was a discussion about gas cylinder and bombs in the previous thread.

    Can anyone (legally!) explain how you actually get them to 'explode' (i.e. detonate) as opposed to just conflagrate rapidly? Surely the pressure relief valves would be difficult to defeat if you wanted to create a bleve?

    Cylinder bombs were tried by the Glasgow airport bombers, and the 'bomb' failed, as did their attempt in London a few days earlier. Both failed to cause much damage, although they had potential. ISTR some US high school attackers (Columbine?) also failed to get them to explode.

    So, how easy would it be to create an explosion in theory, as it seems more high-profile attempts have failed than succeeded?

    Needless to say, I have no intent to do this ...

    Surely that is, sadly, part of the point. These people are not like old school terrorists. They are not organised or trained or equipped. If they were, they'd not use gas cylinders. They do not even have a deliverable aim to fight for. Perhaps things will be even more dangerous when experienced fighters return.
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,203
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think Trump will survive the rest of his term and be re-elected in 2020. How? The Democrats will win the House next year as Republicans can't be bothered to vote for Ryan and his crew while they turn out to vote against Trump. They will also make gains in the Senate but the GOP will retain control.

    The Democrats will then try and push impeachment proceedings which will pass the House but get nowhere near the 2/3 majority needed in the Senate. Trump meanwhile will have to have moved back to the centre to work with Congress and Speaker Pelosi to get anything done, the Democrats meanwhile will see the mid-terms as vindication of a left/liberal agenda, pick Warren in 2020 (who Sanders will endorse after flirting with another run) and who Trump will then narrowly beat. Though I think Warren will do better in the Electoral College than Hillary without doing well enough to vote she will do worse in the popular vote

    I think the Democrats will really struggle to make gains in the Senate next year. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_elections,_2018

    There are 33 Senators up for re-election, and only 8 of them are Republicans. Now, Nevada could flip to the Dems, and there are some suggestions that Arizona could go too.

    But against that, the Democrats are defending West Virginia (R+20 in latest poll), North Dakota (R+16), and Montana (R+11).

    The most likely outcome, I suspect is that the Dems pick up Nevada, and (maybe) Arizona, but drop West Virginia, North Dakota and Montana.
    Which would make it even more likely Trump survives any impeachment proceedings as there will not be enough support in the Senate to convict even if the House votes for his impeachment. (I think the Democrats will hold West Virginia though, their Senator there is more conservative than most establishment Republicans)
    You're right: the latest polling has Manchin 9 points ahead. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_West_Virginia,_2018)
    Yes this 2010 ad of him shooting a rifle gives a flavour of his politics
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIJORBRpOPM
    He stood firm on killing Trumpcare though.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    One form of electric vehicle that is gaining in popularity across Europe is the electric bike - which is far more suitable to many urban trips than just about any alternative. A great plus is parking.

    The station car park where I live is full by 7.30am so the bike is great for the 2 mile trip. Faster, cheaper and more convenient than a taxi
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,987

    One form of electric vehicle that is gaining in popularity across Europe is the electric bike - which is far more suitable to many urban trips than just about any alternative. A great plus is parking.

    The station car park where I live is full by 7.30am so the bike is great for the 2 mile trip. Faster, cheaper and more convenient than a taxi

    Yep, and improvements to cycle (and bike) infrastructure will help.

    I don't mean to sound like a Dionysius Lardner on electric and driverless car tech; we may well get there eventually and the world will probably be better off for it.

    It's just that I think they're not as near, and the promise not imminently as rich, as some of the more bullish on the subject think.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    rcs1000 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    For those who think the UK's 2040 electric car target overly ambitious, China looks to be aiming to get there sooner....
    http://insideevs.com/excluding-tesla-global-automakers-demand-that-china-eases-impossible-electric-car-regulations/

    Regulation or no regulation, if electric cars are cheaper than petrol ones, have similar range, better performance and lower running costs, then the market for petrol cars is going to be very small indeed.
    There's a fair few conditionals in that statement.

    You also missed 'and we have charging points outside every home' ;)
    Apparently, we already have a system for transporting electrical energy around the country...

    More seriously, the price and efficiency of batteries (which is the only thing that matters) is coming down all the time. I've seen presentations from various battery manufacturers, and they all seem confident that we'll continue to see the same steady progress in terms of energy density and cost.

    I got a Tesla Roadster seven years ago when it first came out. The battery pack did 210 miles. They'll now swap it out for a cheaper, identically dimensioned one, that will do 340 miles.
    You have to ask to what extent this is just switching from burning 95 octane unleaded in cars to burning coal in power stations. And yes I know China has made great strides in renewables, but it's still 66% coal powered.
    Coal is priced out of the UK electricity market, because coal fired power stations have higher capital and maintenance costs than natural gas ones, are far less flexible, and because natural gas is likely to be cheaper than coal in the UK for many decades.

    You can make the argument that we're moving from petrol to natural gas*; but that's still the right move because natural gas is incredibly abundant relative to oil.

    * And that ignores the fact that renewables are getting cheaper all the time too. And that they are a perfect fit for recharging batteries.
    Car batteries are in a virtual circle with recyclables. Not only do they charge off peak, there is potential for car batteries to flow both ways to put energy back into the grid, acting as a national energy bank.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191
    edited August 2017

    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    For those who think the UK's 2040 electric car target overly ambitious, China looks to be aiming to get there sooner....
    http://insideevs.com/excluding-tesla-global-automakers-demand-that-china-eases-impossible-electric-car-regulations/

    Regulation or no regulation, if electric cars are cheaper than petrol ones, have similar range, better performance and lower running costs, then the market for petrol cars is going to be very small indeed.
    There's a fair few conditionals in that statement.

    You also missed 'and we have charging points outside every home' ;)
    Apparently, we already have a system for transporting electrical energy around the country...

    More seriously, the price and efficiency of batteries (which is the only thing that matters) is coming down all the time. I've seen presentations from various battery manufacturers, and they all seem confident that we'll continue to see the same steady progress in terms of energy density and cost.

    I got a Tesla Roadster seven years ago when it first came out. The battery pack did 210 miles. They'll now swap it out for a cheaper, identically dimensioned one, that will do 340 miles.
    You have to ask to what extent this is just switching from burning 95 octane unleaded in cars to burning coal in power stations. And yes I know China has made great strides in renewables, but it's still 66% coal powered.
    Currently just 3.4% of all the country's electricity is coming from coal fired power stations.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
    Although 77% was from non-renewables, of which just 25% was non-fossil fuel. Only 3% from wind and 2% from solar. 47% was gas.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960
    Sandpit said:

    Awesome article linked by @MyBurningEars on the previous thread, about Tony Bloom and his Starlizard betting syndicate. Well worth a (long) read.
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/inside-story-star-lizard-tony-bloom-2016-2

    Thanks for that
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191
    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
    I don't think we're going to run out of wind :smile:

    Anyway, what was today's voluntary?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191
    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
    I don't think we're going to run out of wind :smile:

    Anyway, what was today's voluntary?
    Wouldn't know, someone else was playing! Sounded like Bach's Toccata in G.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    At current consumption rates there is a few hundred years, enough time to feasibly start mining it in the solar system. If consumption really ramps up, then it runs out far quicker...

    https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-there-enough-lithium-to-maintain-the-growth-of-the-lithium-ion-battery-m
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    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    Cyclefree said:

    There was a discussion about gas cylinder and bombs in the previous thread.

    Can anyone (legally!) explain how you actually get them to 'explode' (i.e. detonate) as opposed to just conflagrate rapidly? Surely the pressure relief valves would be difficult to defeat if you wanted to create a bleve?

    Cylinder bombs were tried by the Glasgow airport bombers, and the 'bomb' failed, as did their attempt in London a few days earlier. Both failed to cause much damage, although they had potential. ISTR some US high school attackers (Columbine?) also failed to get them to explode.

    So, how easy would it be to create an explosion in theory, as it seems more high-profile attempts have failed than succeeded?

    Needless to say, I have no intent to do this ...

    I have no idea. But the gas canisters in the house in Alcanar, north of Barcelona, did explode destroying the house. So it must be possible. Let's hope it is not at all easy, eh?
    Remove gas, refill with explosive made using one of the recipes available on the Internet, anarchist handbooks or in university libraries. Detonators made with a 9 volt battery, an alarm clock and a couple of other easily available things. It is the metal case of the canister that firstly constrains the explosion and then, a fraction of a second later, the sharpnel that does the damage.

    Many years ago, first lesson in chemistry was taken up by what, under any circumstances, should not be mixed or played with. If you did, and were still alive, you were going to be severely belted (Lochgelly tawse). It was in the days before Elf N'safety became more than a vague concept.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    We don't need to limit ourselves to just the Earth's crust.

    Asteroids!

    http://www.visualcapitalist.com/theres-big-money-made-asteroid-mining/

    I can only think of one political party that's been forward-thinking enough to make that an election issue!
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
    I don't think we're going to run out of wind :smile:

    Anyway, what was today's voluntary?
    Wouldn't know, someone else was playing! Sounded like Bach's Toccata in G.
    I have a friend who likes to play the Russian national anthem when 9th May (Victory Day) falls on a Sunday. I think it's lost on the congregation, but it is not appreciated by the
    RobD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    At current consumption rates there is a few hundred years, enough time to feasibly start mining it in the solar system. If consumption really ramps up, then it runs out far quicker...

    https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-there-enough-lithium-to-maintain-the-growth-of-the-lithium-ion-battery-m
    Hmmmm. It sounds like it will turn on how much lithium can be economically recovered from old batteries.
  • Options
    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    OchEye said:

    Cyclefree said:

    There was a discussion about gas cylinder and bombs in the previous thread.

    Can anyone (legally!) explain how you actually get them to 'explode' (i.e. detonate) as opposed to just conflagrate rapidly? Surely the pressure relief valves would be difficult to defeat if you wanted to create a bleve?

    Cylinder bombs were tried by the Glasgow airport bombers, and the 'bomb' failed, as did their attempt in London a few days earlier. Both failed to cause much damage, although they had potential. ISTR some US high school attackers (Columbine?) also failed to get them to explode.

    So, how easy would it be to create an explosion in theory, as it seems more high-profile attempts have failed than succeeded?

    Needless to say, I have no intent to do this ...

    I have no idea. But the gas canisters in the house in Alcanar, north of Barcelona, did explode destroying the house. So it must be possible. Let's hope it is not at all easy, eh?
    Remove gas, refill with explosive made using one of the recipes available on the Internet, anarchist handbooks or in university libraries. Detonators made with a 9 volt battery, an alarm clock and a couple of other easily available things. It is the metal case of the canister that firstly constrains the explosion and then, a fraction of a second later, the sharpnel that does the damage.

    Many years ago, first lesson in chemistry was taken up by what, under any circumstances, should not be mixed or played with. If you did, and were still alive, you were going to be severely belted (Lochgelly tawse). It was in the days before Elf N'safety became more than a vague concept.
    Forgot to add, it is much cheaper and effective using natural household gas. In fact the amount of gas capable of demolishing a 2 story detached house would cost 50p. One of reasons I was very surprised to find out that in the Grenfell Tower block, the gas mains had been moved to the central passageways in the recent renovation. Gas main in a tower block anyway is probably not the smartest idea.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191
    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
    I don't think we're going to run out of wind :smile:

    Anyway, what was today's voluntary?
    Wouldn't know, someone else was playing! Sounded like Bach's Toccata in G.
    I have a friend who likes to play the Russian national anthem when 9th May (Victory Day) falls on a Sunday. I think it's lost on the congregation, but it is not appreciated by the
    I think my favourite was the organist who following a dispute with the clergy played 'Send in the Clowns' as they processed in.

    There was also the mischievous young vegetarian organist who played 'Sheep may safely graze' at the funeral of a butcher, fortunately without anyone in the congregation making the connection.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,056
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    For those who think the UK's 2040 electric car target overly ambitious, China looks to be aiming to get there sooner....
    http://insideevs.com/excluding-tesla-global-automakers-demand-that-china-eases-impossible-electric-car-regulations/

    Regulation or no regulation, if electric cars are cheaper than petrol ones, have similar range, better performance and lower running costs, then the market for petrol cars is going to be very small indeed.
    There's a fair few conditionals in that statement.

    You also missed 'and we have charging points outside every home' ;)
    Apparently, we already have a system for transporting electrical energy around the country...

    More seriously, the price and efficiency of batteries (which is the only thing that matters) is coming down all the time. I've seen presentations from various battery manufacturers, and they all seem confident that we'll continue to see the same steady progress in terms of energy density and cost.

    I got a Tesla Roadster seven years ago when it first came out. The battery pack did 210 miles. They'll now swap it out for a cheaper, identically dimensioned one, that will do 340 miles.
    You have to ask to what extent this is just switching from burning 95 octane unleaded in cars to burning coal in power stations. And yes I know China has made great strides in renewables, but it's still 66% coal powered.
    Currently just 3.4% of all the country's electricity is coming from coal fired power stations.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
    Although 77% was from non-renewables, of which just 25% was non-fossil fuel. Only 3% from wind and 2% from solar. 47% was gas.
    Overall the average wind generated power is higher than just 3-odd percent, say 10 percent or more. Lately it's been 15 to 25 percent. Thus the rapid advances in battery storage are interesting, especially for solar generation. Off peak they are clearly minimizing coal usage---it pollutes I guess.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191
    Toms said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    For those who think the UK's 2040 electric car target overly ambitious, China looks to be aiming to get there sooner....
    http://insideevs.com/excluding-tesla-global-automakers-demand-that-china-eases-impossible-electric-car-regulations/

    Regulation or no regulation, if electric cars are cheaper than petrol ones, have similar range, better performance and lower running costs, then the market for petrol cars is going to be very small indeed.
    There's a fair few conditionals in that statement.

    You also missed 'and we have charging points outside every home' ;)
    Apparently, we already have a system for transporting electrical energy around the country...

    More seriously, the price and efficiency of batteries (which is the only thing that matters) is coming down all the time. I've seen presentations from various battery manufacturers, and they all seem confident that we'll continue to see the same steady progress in terms of energy density and cost.

    I got a Tesla Roadster seven years ago when it first came out. The battery pack did 210 miles. They'll now swap it out for a cheaper, identically dimensioned one, that will do 340 miles.
    You have to ask to what extent this is just switching from burning 95 octane unleaded in cars to burning coal in power stations. And yes I know China has made great strides in renewables, but it's still 66% coal powered.
    Currently just 3.4% of all the country's electricity is coming from coal fired power stations.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
    Although 77% was from non-renewables, of which just 25% was non-fossil fuel. Only 3% from wind and 2% from solar. 47% was gas.
    Overall the average wind generated power is higher than just 3-odd percent, say 10 percent or more. Lately it's been 15 to 25 percent. Thus the rapid advances in battery storage are interesting, especially for solar generation. Off peak they are clearly minimizing coal usage---it pollutes I guess.
    I would guess half to two thirds of the power I use is solar.

    But until we're consistently hitting that percentage as a country from renewables, I'm not convinced a dash for electric cars if the best policy.

    Surely the other issue with coal is it's bulky and expensive?
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Slovenia was invented as a country when Jason Donovan was No1 with "Any Dream Will Do"
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    What an absolutely stupid idea!

    Welsh political job-share 'possibility' under new powers
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-40896732
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191
    GeoffM said:

    Slovenia was invented as a country when Jason Donovan was No1 with "Any Dream Will Do"
    From personal experience I would advise you not to say that to a Slovenian.

    They get touchy enough if you ask them whether their first language is Serbo-Croat.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    GeoffM said:

    Slovenia was invented as a country when Jason Donovan was No1 with "Any Dream Will Do"
    It is also smaller than Wales, with a population 80% the size of Birmingham's.

    Some things make me feel leaving isn't all bad.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,987

    Cyclefree said:

    There was a discussion about gas cylinder and bombs in the previous thread.

    Can anyone (legally!) explain how you actually get them to 'explode' (i.e. detonate) as opposed to just conflagrate rapidly? Surely the pressure relief valves would be difficult to defeat if you wanted to create a bleve?

    Cylinder bombs were tried by the Glasgow airport bombers, and the 'bomb' failed, as did their attempt in London a few days earlier. Both failed to cause much damage, although they had potential. ISTR some US high school attackers (Columbine?) also failed to get them to explode.

    So, how easy would it be to create an explosion in theory, as it seems more high-profile attempts have failed than succeeded?

    Needless to say, I have no intent to do this ...

    I have no idea. But the gas canisters in the house in Alcanar, north of Barcelona, did explode destroying the house. So it must be possible. Let's hope it is not at all easy, eh?
    Did the cylinders explode? I saw a report they were making other 'real' explosives at the time, which went off.
    Following-on from my own post, it seems they've found traces of TATP in the ruins of the house.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/18/europe/spain-terror-attacks-tatp/index.html
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    What an absolutely stupid idea!

    Welsh political job-share 'possibility' under new powers
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-40896732

    That is not a very original conclusion when it comes to most of the output of the Welsh Assembly. It is however correct!
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,916
    We won't let them change our way of life. "There were always machine guns at football matches" wrote Winston as he destroyed the old footage

    https://twitter.com/marcainenglish/status/899336508536180736
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,888

    Cyclefree said:

    There was a discussion about gas cylinder and bombs in the previous thread.

    Can anyone (legally!) explain how you actually get them to 'explode' (i.e. detonate) as opposed to just conflagrate rapidly? Surely the pressure relief valves would be difficult to defeat if you wanted to create a bleve?

    Cylinder bombs were tried by the Glasgow airport bombers, and the 'bomb' failed, as did their attempt in London a few days earlier. Both failed to cause much damage, although they had potential. ISTR some US high school attackers (Columbine?) also failed to get them to explode.

    So, how easy would it be to create an explosion in theory, as it seems more high-profile attempts have failed than succeeded?

    Needless to say, I have no intent to do this ...

    I have no idea. But the gas canisters in the house in Alcanar, north of Barcelona, did explode destroying the house. So it must be possible. Let's hope it is not at all easy, eh?
    Did the cylinders explode? I saw a report they were making other 'real' explosives at the time, which went off.
    Following-on from my own post, it seems they've found traces of TATP in the ruins of the house.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/18/europe/spain-terror-attacks-tatp/index.html
    So Barcelona got away lightly, they had a real bomb but screwed up and exploded their own house instead.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960
    edited August 2017
    RobD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    At current consumption rates there is a few hundred years, enough time to feasibly start mining it in the solar system. If consumption really ramps up, then it runs out far quicker...

    https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-there-enough-lithium-to-maintain-the-growth-of-the-lithium-ion-battery-m
    Lithium can be extracted reasonably simply from seawater. It's not commercially viable right now, but it would be in the event that we needed massive amounts.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    ydoethur said:

    Toms said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    For those who think the UK's 2040 electric car target overly ambitious, China looks to be aiming to get there sooner....
    http://insideevs.com/excluding-tesla-global-automakers-demand-that-china-eases-impossible-electric-car-regulations/

    Regulation or no regulation, if electric cars are cheaper than petrol ones, have similar range, better performance and lower running costs, then the market for petrol cars is going to be very small indeed.
    There's a fair few conditionals in that statement.

    You also missed 'and we have charging points outside every home' ;)
    Apparently, we already have a system for transporting electrical energy around the country...

    More seriously, the price and efficiency of batteries (which is the only thing that matters) is coming down all the time. I've seen presentations from various battery manufacturers, and they all seem confident that we'll continue to see the same steady progress in terms of energy density and cost.

    I got a Tesla Roadster seven years ago when it first came out. The battery pack did 210 miles. They'll now swap it out for a cheaper, identically dimensioned one, that will do 340 miles.
    You have to ask to what extent this is just switching from burning 95 octane unleaded in cars to burning coal in power stations. And yes I know China has made great strides in renewables, but it's still 66% coal powered.
    Currently just 3.4% of all the country's electricity is coming from coal fired power stations.

    http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
    Although 77% was from non-renewables, of which just 25% was non-fossil fuel. Only 3% from wind and 2% from solar. 47% was gas.
    Overall the average wind generated power is higher than just 3-odd percent, say 10 percent or more. Lately it's been 15 to 25 percent. Thus the rapid advances in battery storage are interesting, especially for solar generation. Off peak they are clearly minimizing coal usage---it pollutes I guess.
    I would guess half to two thirds of the power I use is solar.

    But until we're consistently hitting that percentage as a country from renewables, I'm not convinced a dash for electric cars if the best policy.

    Surely the other issue with coal is it's bulky and expensive?
    Anything that takes killer diesels off the streets is to be welcomed.

  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    ydoethur said:

    GeoffM said:

    Slovenia was invented as a country when Jason Donovan was No1 with "Any Dream Will Do"
    From personal experience I would advise you not to say that to a Slovenian.

    They get touchy enough if you ask them whether their first language is Serbo-Croat.
    Also the FLOTUS is Slovenian by birth, don't undermine the Donald...
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960
    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
    Nuclear fusion. Historically, we've relied on a system of indirect fusion, where the power of the fusion transformed into visible light, and we then used billions of living solar cells collecting that energy through photosynthesis. The products of that reaction were then buried for hundreds of millions of years under high pressure and the absence of oxygen, which created various hydrocarbons. We then mixed those with oxygen to create usable power. It's fair to say that this system was not intelligently designed, and was just plane wasteful.

    In the future, we'll skip the who photosynthesis part, and just convert the light energy from the big nuclear fusion reactor directly into electricity.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,660
    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
    I don't think we're going to run out of wind :smile:

    Anyway, what was today's voluntary?
    RobD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    At current consumption rates there is a few hundred years, enough time to feasibly start mining it in the solar system. If consumption really ramps up, then it runs out far quicker...

    https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-there-enough-lithium-to-maintain-the-growth-of-the-lithium-ion-battery-m
    Hmmmm. It sounds like it will turn on how much lithium can be economically recovered from old batteries.
    Very likely lithium batteries will be old hat by 2040 - more efficient methods of energy storage will have replaced them.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960
    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
    I don't think we're going to run out of wind :smile:

    Anyway, what was today's voluntary?
    Wind? Ah, you mean indirect fusion power.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,888
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
    Nuclear fusion. Historically, we've relied on a system of indirect fusion, where the power of the fusion transformed into visible light, and we then used billions of living solar cells collecting that energy through photosynthesis. The products of that reaction were then buried for hundreds of millions of years under high pressure and the absence of oxygen, which created various hydrocarbons. We then mixed those with oxygen to create usable power. It's fair to say that this system was not intelligently designed, and was just plane wasteful.

    In the future, we'll skip the who photosynthesis part, and just convert the light energy from the big nuclear fusion reactor directly into electricity.
    Hasn’t controllable nuclear fusion been a decade away for 70 years now?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
    Nuclear fusion. Historically, we've relied on a system of indirect fusion, where the power of the fusion transformed into visible light, and we then used billions of living solar cells collecting that energy through photosynthesis. The products of that reaction were then buried for hundreds of millions of years under high pressure and the absence of oxygen, which created various hydrocarbons. We then mixed those with oxygen to create usable power. It's fair to say that this system was not intelligently designed, and was just plane wasteful.

    In the future, we'll skip the who photosynthesis part, and just convert the light energy from the big nuclear fusion reactor directly into electricity.
    Hasn’t controllable nuclear fusion been a decade away for 70 years now?
    I don't think you read my entire post.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,660
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
    Nuclear fusion. Historically, we've relied on a system of indirect fusion, where the power of the fusion transformed into visible light, and we then used billions of living solar cells collecting that energy through photosynthesis. The products of that reaction were then buried for hundreds of millions of years under high pressure and the absence of oxygen, which created various hydrocarbons. We then mixed those with oxygen to create usable power. It's fair to say that this system was not intelligently designed, and was just plane wasteful.

    In the future, we'll skip the who photosynthesis part, and just convert the light energy from the big nuclear fusion reactor directly into electricity.
    :smile:
    Someone must have worked out how much electricity the UK would generate if every roof was covered in solar panels. Anyone know what the potential is?

    (PS Please let's not have any more fields turned into solar panel deserts though - they seem to be appearing all over the place - I can't understand how any government that calls itself 'Conservative' could allow that! Rant over)
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,660
    edited August 2017
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
    Nuclear fusion. Historically, we've relied on a system of indirect fusion, where the power of the fusion transformed into visible light, and we then used billions of living solar cells collecting that energy through photosynthesis. The products of that reaction were then buried for hundreds of millions of years under high pressure and the absence of oxygen, which created various hydrocarbons. We then mixed those with oxygen to create usable power. It's fair to say that this system was not intelligently designed, and was just plane wasteful.

    In the future, we'll skip the who photosynthesis part, and just convert the light energy from the big nuclear fusion reactor directly into electricity.
    Hasn’t controllable nuclear fusion been a decade away for 70 years now?
    It's been 93 million miles away for 4,500m years!

    (Edit: ok, it's not very controllable, but seems to be very reliable!)
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,888
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
    Nuclear fusion. Historically, we've relied on a system of indirect fusion, where the power of the fusion transformed into visible light, and we then used billions of living solar cells collecting that energy through photosynthesis. The products of that reaction were then buried for hundreds of millions of years under high pressure and the absence of oxygen, which created various hydrocarbons. We then mixed those with oxygen to create usable power. It's fair to say that this system was not intelligently designed, and was just plane wasteful.

    In the future, we'll skip the who photosynthesis part, and just convert the light energy from the big nuclear fusion reactor directly into electricity.
    Hasn’t controllable nuclear fusion been a decade away for 70 years now?
    I don't think you read my entire post.
    Oh, *THAT* big nuclear fusion reactor! I see...
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    Ishmael_Z said:

    GeoffM said:

    Slovenia was invented as a country when Jason Donovan was No1 with "Any Dream Will Do"
    It is also smaller than Wales, with a population 80% the size of Birmingham's.

    Some things make me feel leaving isn't all bad.
    The country smaller than Wales may get a veto. Along with the 27 other countries Slovenia gets to say what they want from any deal.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
    Nuclear fusion. Historically, we've relied on a system of indirect fusion, where the power of the fusion transformed into visible light, and we then used billions of living solar cells collecting that energy through photosynthesis. The products of that reaction were then buried for hundreds of millions of years under high pressure and the absence of oxygen, which created various hydrocarbons. We then mixed those with oxygen to create usable power. It's fair to say that this system was not intelligently designed, and was just plane wasteful.

    In the future, we'll skip the who photosynthesis part, and just convert the light energy from the big nuclear fusion reactor directly into electricity.
    :smile:
    Someone must have worked out how much electricity the UK would generate if every roof was covered in solar panels. Anyone know what the potential is?

    (PS Please let's not have any more fields turned into solar panel deserts though - they seem to be appearing all over the place - I can't understand how any government that calls itself 'Conservative' could allow that! Rant over)
    There's a calculation at the end of this article. I haven't looked at it for assumptions or flaws in working - it's purely a search result:

    https://www.onstride.co.uk/blog/how-many-solar-panels-would-power-every-uk-household/
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,987

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
    Nuclear fusion. Historically, we've relied on a system of indirect fusion, where the power of the fusion transformed into visible light, and we then used billions of living solar cells collecting that energy through photosynthesis. The products of that reaction were then buried for hundreds of millions of years under high pressure and the absence of oxygen, which created various hydrocarbons. We then mixed those with oxygen to create usable power. It's fair to say that this system was not intelligently designed, and was just plane wasteful.

    In the future, we'll skip the who photosynthesis part, and just convert the light energy from the big nuclear fusion reactor directly into electricity.
    :smile:
    Someone must have worked out how much electricity the UK would generate if every roof was covered in solar panels. Anyone know what the potential is?

    (PS Please let's not have any more fields turned into solar panel deserts though - they seem to be appearing all over the place - I can't understand how any government that calls itself 'Conservative' could allow that! Rant over)
    https://www.withouthotair.com/c6/page_38.shtml
  • Options
    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
    Nuclear fusion. Historically, we've relied on a system of indirect fusion, where the power of the fusion transformed into visible light, and we then used billions of living solar cells collecting that energy through photosynthesis. The products of that reaction were then buried for hundreds of millions of years under high pressure and the absence of oxygen, which created various hydrocarbons. We then mixed those with oxygen to create usable power. It's fair to say that this system was not intelligently designed, and was just plane wasteful.

    In the future, we'll skip the who photosynthesis part, and just convert the light energy from the big nuclear fusion reactor directly into electricity.
    :smile:
    Someone must have worked out how much electricity the UK would generate if every roof was covered in solar panels. Anyone know what the potential is?

    (PS Please let's not have any more fields turned into solar panel deserts though - they seem to be appearing all over the place - I can't understand how any government that calls itself 'Conservative' could allow that! Rant over)
    There's a calculation at the end of this article. I haven't looked at it for assumptions or flaws in working - it's purely a search result:

    https://www.onstride.co.uk/blog/how-many-solar-panels-would-power-every-uk-household/
    We went into it a couple of years ago and it seemed like you really needed a South facing roof to make it worthwhile.
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited August 2017
    Ydoethur said "I would guess half to two thirds of the power I use is solar.

    But until we're consistently hitting that percentage as a country from renewables, I'm not convinced a dash for electric cars if the best policy.

    Surely the other issue with coal is it's bulky and expensive?"

    Sorry for a slow response: I was cooking. I know my place!

    I dream of the ability to store by using batteries industrial (or even national) amounts of power. Then solar power would be really good.

    As for cars, the way we use them is perverse and causes huge damage to us and the planet.
    The diesel disaster is just one particularly bad example. Cars should be made to not be used, ie to be there when really needed. We don't use a saw to cut our bread or a ball peen hammer to open a soft boiled egg.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    FF43 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    GeoffM said:

    Slovenia was invented as a country when Jason Donovan was No1 with "Any Dream Will Do"
    It is also smaller than Wales, with a population 80% the size of Birmingham's.

    Some things make me feel leaving isn't all bad.
    The country smaller than Wales may get a veto. Along with the 27 other countries Slovenia gets to say what they want from any deal.
    Plus each of the Belgian provinces !
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    FF43 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    GeoffM said:

    Slovenia was invented as a country when Jason Donovan was No1 with "Any Dream Will Do"
    It is also smaller than Wales, with a population 80% the size of Birmingham's.

    Some things make me feel leaving isn't all bad.
    The country smaller than Wales may get a veto. Along with the 27 other countries Slovenia gets to say what they want from any deal.
    So there's still a chance of escaping with No Deal?

    Woohoo! That's really good news.

    In reality, someone will buy them off with an extra quota of vodka exports or something.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191
    Toms said:

    We don't use a saw to cut our bread.

    Don't you? That's surprising.

    Is this a sign I'm not very good at baking it?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,191
    Toms said:

    Ydoethur said "I would guess half to two thirds of the power I use is solar.

    But until we're consistently hitting that percentage as a country from renewables, I'm not convinced a dash for electric cars if the best policy.

    Surely the other issue with coal is it's bulky and expensive?"

    Sorry for a slow response: I was cooking. I know my place!

    I dream of the ability to store by using batteries industrial (or even national) amounts of power. Then solar power would be really good.

    As for cars, the way we use them is perverse and causes huge damage to us and the planet.
    The diesel disaster is just one particularly bad example. Cars should be made to not be used, ie to be there when really needed. We don't use a saw to cut our bread or a ball peen hammer to open a soft boiled egg.

    On your more substantive point, and rather more seriously, there is obviously much to be said for local generation and storage. However, the obvious drawback with using cars in that way is that it would drain the battery, somewhat negating the whole purpose of an electric car in the first place.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Huddersfield 34 points from safety.
  • Options
    sladeslade Posts: 1,930
    surbiton said:

    Huddersfield 34 points from safety.

    Huddersfield are the only team in history to win all their Premier league games without conceding a goal.
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    O(n) T(opic),
    If Trump resigned or were impeached he'd be replaced by an avowed creationist bespeaking a strange attitude towards reality, in my view.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    So the away form of Spurs will be what keeps them safe or relegated this season?

    I have Alonso on the bench. :(

    In 2nd position. :(:(

    "Fortunately" 4 of my players are not playing this game week. :)
  • Options
    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    Sandpit said:

    Awesome article linked by @MyBurningEars on the previous thread, about Tony Bloom and his Starlizard betting syndicate. Well worth a (long) read.
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/inside-story-star-lizard-tony-bloom-2016-2

    Can't take too much credit for it, think it was Francis U (and if not him, one of our other [ex] pro-gamblers) who linked to it several yonks ago. Glad you enjoyed though!
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
    Nuclear fusion. Historically, we've relied on a system of indirect fusion, where the power of the fusion transformed into visible light, and we then used billions of living solar cells collecting that energy through photosynthesis. The products of that reaction were then buried for hundreds of millions of years under high pressure and the absence of oxygen, which created various hydrocarbons. We then mixed those with oxygen to create usable power. It's fair to say that this system was not intelligently designed, and was just plane wasteful.

    In the future, we'll skip the who photosynthesis part, and just convert the light energy from the big nuclear fusion reactor directly into electricity.
    :smile:
    Someone must have worked out how much electricity the UK would generate if every roof was covered in solar panels. Anyone know what the potential is?

    (PS Please let's not have any more fields turned into solar panel deserts though - they seem to be appearing all over the place - I can't understand how any government that calls itself 'Conservative' could allow that! Rant over)
    There's a calculation at the end of this article. I haven't looked at it for assumptions or flaws in working - it's purely a search result:

    https://www.onstride.co.uk/blog/how-many-solar-panels-would-power-every-uk-household/
    We went into it a couple of years ago and it seemed like you really needed a South facing roof to make it worthwhile.
    Ina decade it own't matter what facing roof you have, PVs will be cheap, cheap, cheap.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Alistair said:

    So the away form of Spurs will be what keeps them safe or relegated this season?

    I have Alonso on the bench. :(

    In 2nd position. :(:(

    "Fortunately" 4 of my players are not playing this game week. :)
    benched for me too...
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited August 2017
    JFC

    I backed Mayweather @ 1.19 back at the start of July and he's now out to 1.29.

    What fucking planet is this?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2017

    Sandpit said:

    Awesome article linked by @MyBurningEars on the previous thread, about Tony Bloom and his Starlizard betting syndicate. Well worth a (long) read.
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/inside-story-star-lizard-tony-bloom-2016-2

    Can't take too much credit for it, think it was Francis U (and if not him, one of our other [ex] pro-gamblers) who linked to it several yonks ago. Glad you enjoyed though!
    I honestly can't remember if it was originally me or not. The tales of bob voulgaris (for many years the world's best basketball gambler) are also worth a google and of course billy Walters.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,888
    edited August 2017
    Alistair said:

    JFC

    I backed Mayweather @ 1.19 back at the start of July and he's now out to 1.29.

    What fucking planet is this?

    Surely that’s free money? Mayweather should be 1/100 for this fight.

    Disclaimer: I had a bag of sand at 1.25 for the Tories to get a majority at the election, so what do I know?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,888

    Sandpit said:

    Awesome article linked by @MyBurningEars on the previous thread, about Tony Bloom and his Starlizard betting syndicate. Well worth a (long) read.
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/inside-story-star-lizard-tony-bloom-2016-2

    Can't take too much credit for it, think it was Francis U (and if not him, one of our other [ex] pro-gamblers) who linked to it several yonks ago. Glad you enjoyed though!
    I honestly can't remember if it was originally me or not. The tales of bob voulgaris (for many years the world's best basketball gambler) are also worth a google and of course billy Walters.
    We’ve definitely discussed Walters and Voulgaris on here before, but that was the first I’ve heard of Tony Bloom. Amazing to see the scale of the operation and the amount of money involved.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2017
    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    JFC

    I backed Mayweather @ 1.19 back at the start of July and he's now out to 1.29.

    What fucking planet is this?

    Surely that’s free money? Mayweather should be 1/100 for this fight.
    I think the only possible shock "result" is the fight going the distance (with mayweather obviously winning easily) due to something like mayweathers brittle hands giving out.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    JFC

    I backed Mayweather @ 1.19 back at the start of July and he's now out to 1.29.

    What fucking planet is this?

    Surely that’s free money? Mayweather should be 1/100 for this fight.
    As I have said repeatedly I don't bet on boxing despite having a good prediction record because I could not take the mental body blows (so to speak) of losing bets due to freak lucky punches.

    But I could not resist this one.

    However I am so far resisting the urge to double down on this one because I would go completely mental if McGregor flukes this.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    slade said:

    surbiton said:

    Huddersfield 34 points from safety.

    Huddersfield are the only team in history to win all their Premier league games without conceding a goal.
    Some record, eh ! The Premier League has been here for 25 years and Huddersfield are the only team not to concede a single goal !
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2017
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Awesome article linked by @MyBurningEars on the previous thread, about Tony Bloom and his Starlizard betting syndicate. Well worth a (long) read.
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/inside-story-star-lizard-tony-bloom-2016-2

    Can't take too much credit for it, think it was Francis U (and if not him, one of our other [ex] pro-gamblers) who linked to it several yonks ago. Glad you enjoyed though!
    I honestly can't remember if it was originally me or not. The tales of bob voulgaris (for many years the world's best basketball gambler) are also worth a google and of course billy Walters.
    We’ve definitely discussed Walters and Voulgaris on here before, but that was the first I’ve heard of Tony Bloom. Amazing to see the scale of the operation and the amount of money involved.
    For those in the game him and Matthew Benham are very well known.
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    Alistair said:

    So the away form of Spurs will be what keeps them safe or relegated this season?

    I have Alonso on the bench. :(

    In 2nd position. :(:(

    "Fortunately" 4 of my players are not playing this game week. :)
    Things are rather gloomy here at Scrap towers.... I even managed to sell Capoue after just 1 game as he's a sub and of course he scored.... back from Wembley and can't even blame english cricketers for today.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,660

    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Electric vehicles and battery grid storage are exciting; I just hope we have sufficient lithium in the Earth's crust.

    Although that won't matter if we can't find a way to charge them when built.
    Nuclear fusion. Historically, we've relied on a system of indirect fusion, where the power of the fusion transformed into visible light, and we then used billions of living solar cells collecting that energy through photosynthesis. The products of that reaction were then buried for hundreds of millions of years under high pressure and the absence of oxygen, which created various hydrocarbons. We then mixed those with oxygen to create usable power. It's fair to say that this system was not intelligently designed, and was just plane wasteful.

    In the future, we'll skip the who photosynthesis part, and just convert the light energy from the big nuclear fusion reactor directly into electricity.
    :smile:
    Someone must have worked out how much electricity the UK would generate if every roof was covered in solar panels. Anyone know what the potential is?

    (PS Please let's not have any more fields turned into solar panel deserts though - they seem to be appearing all over the place - I can't understand how any government that calls itself 'Conservative' could allow that! Rant over)
    There's a calculation at the end of this article. I haven't looked at it for assumptions or flaws in working - it's purely a search result:

    https://www.onstride.co.uk/blog/how-many-solar-panels-would-power-every-uk-household/
    We went into it a couple of years ago and it seemed like you really needed a South facing roof to make it worthwhile.
    Thanks Geoff and Josias for the links.

    Our PV panels installed 4 years ago have been a great investment. Given the cost of PV these days, versus the cost of a new house, why not just make them compulsory on new builds?
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    JFC

    I backed Mayweather @ 1.19 back at the start of July and he's now out to 1.29.

    What fucking planet is this?

    Surely that’s free money? Mayweather should be 1/100 for this fight.
    I think the only possible shock "result" is the fight going the distance (with mayweather obviously winning easily) due to something like mayweathers brittle hands giving out.
    Or if Mayweather is too complacent. We've seen that before, I think. But the value is presumably created by thousands of Irish punters having a sentimental tenner on their man -- I understand Conor is pretty big news in Ireland. I'd expect the big players to come in at the end of the week.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Can Labour win the next general election - in New Zealand ?
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,660
    edited August 2017
    surbiton said:

    Can Labour win the next general election - in New Zealand ?

    Have the National party engaged Lynton Crosby yet? If so, every chance!
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,989
    edited August 2017
    surbiton said:

    Can Labour win the next general election - in New Zealand ?

    The gap has certainly narrowed since Andrew Little resigned as Labour leader at the beginning of this month and was replaced by Jacinda Adern. The latest poll has the Nationals on 44% Labour 37% NZ First 10% and the Greens 4%.

    There are some similarities to the UK in that the Cameroon like PM John Key was replaced by the more conservative Bill English at the end of 2016
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_New_Zealand_general_election,_2017
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    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651

    Sandpit said:

    Awesome article linked by @MyBurningEars on the previous thread, about Tony Bloom and his Starlizard betting syndicate. Well worth a (long) read.
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/inside-story-star-lizard-tony-bloom-2016-2

    Can't take too much credit for it, think it was Francis U (and if not him, one of our other [ex] pro-gamblers) who linked to it several yonks ago. Glad you enjoyed though!
    I honestly can't remember if it was originally me or not. The tales of bob voulgaris (for many years the world's best basketball gambler) are also worth a google and of course billy Walters.
    You've definitely linked to some excellent articles on Bob Voulgaris before, and Walters/The Computer Group (another long read that @Sandpit might enjoy, though again I can't remember if this is the one Francis linked originally!)
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,056
    All we are saying, is give Brexit a chance.
    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/899375393471426562
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    isamisam Posts: 40,916
    edited August 2017

    Sandpit said:

    Awesome article linked by @MyBurningEars on the previous thread, about Tony Bloom and his Starlizard betting syndicate. Well worth a (long) read.
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/inside-story-star-lizard-tony-bloom-2016-2

    Can't take too much credit for it, think it was Francis U (and if not him, one of our other [ex] pro-gamblers) who linked to it several yonks ago. Glad you enjoyed though!
    I honestly can't remember if it was originally me or not. The tales of bob voulgaris (for many years the world's best basketball gambler) are also worth a google and of course billy Walters.
    You've definitely linked to some excellent articles on Bob Voulgaris before, and Walters/The Computer Group (another long read that @Sandpit might enjoy, though again I can't remember if this is the one Francis linked originally!)
    I was at VC in Gib at the same time as Bloom, fair to say he has kicked on a bit more than me! My flat mate was one of the boys who got his bets on in Asia

    StarLizards hours are meant to be insanely unsociable even by betting standards though. Something like 6 weekend days off a year. But prob the best place to work if you can suffer that
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    valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 605
    surbiton said:

    slade said:

    surbiton said:

    Huddersfield 34 points from safety.

    Huddersfield are the only team in history to win all their Premier league games without conceding a goal.
    Some record, eh ! The Premier League has been here for 25 years and Huddersfield are the only team not to concede a single goal !
    LOL. ..

    Just a shout for my team sitting pretty at the top of the Championship having won all 4 games. We also beat the Terriers home and away last season, although I predicted they would have a decent start to prem life with their pressing style which would upset a few teams early doors.
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    valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 605
    surbiton said:

    Can Labour win the next general election - in New Zealand ?

    Yes, I think the 'momentum' is with Labour in New Zealand
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2017
    Talking of money bags Bloom....

    Brighton have broken their transfer record for the third time this summer by signing Colombian international Jose Izquierdo from Club Brugge for £13.5 million.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Talking of money bags Bloom....

    Brighton have broken their transfer record for the third time this summer by signing Colombian international Jose Izquierdo from Club Brugge for £13.5 million.

    They were very poor yesterday though. Quite possibly the easiest victory we will have all season.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    Can Labour win the next general election - in New Zealand ?

    The gap has certainly narrowed since Andrew Little resigned as Labour leader at the beginning of this month and was replaced by Jacinda Adern. The latest poll has the Nationals on 44% Labour 37% NZ First 10% and the Greens 4%.

    There are some similarities to the UK in that the Cameroon like PM John Key was replaced by the more conservative Bill English at the end of 2016
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_New_Zealand_general_election,_2017
    Ooohhhh Jaciiinda Adeeeernn
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    Sandpit said:

    The US system unlike ours has no real method for removing a sitting President during his term on simple grounds that he is just crap. Not sick or crooked, but just useless.

    I can't think of any historical parallel. Is there one?

    The main difference is that he is directly elected to the position, so he was put there by the people rather than by his party as in the UK.

    If he doesn’t want to resign there’s really no way to remove him. The 25th amendment was intended for use when the President was in a coma and unable to work, it’s a very long shot to try and use it to get rid of someone they just don’t like and the Supreme Court would probably intervene if it was attempted.
    I don't see how SCOTUS could intervene if the votes are cast by the people who need to cast them. The Constitution is clear on who needs to vote and it is their power to determine not a justices.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    Can Labour win the next general election - in New Zealand ?

    The gap has certainly narrowed since Andrew Little resigned as Labour leader at the beginning of this month and was replaced by Jacinda Adern. The latest poll has the Nationals on 44% Labour 37% NZ First 10% and the Greens 4%.

    There are some similarities to the UK in that the Cameroon like PM John Key was replaced by the more conservative Bill English at the end of 2016
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_New_Zealand_general_election,_2017
    Ooohhhh Jaciiinda Adeeeernn
    In an ironic contrast to our own New Labour, the NewLabour party in NZ was a breakaway left wing faction.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NewLabour_Party_(New_Zealand)
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    ydoethur said:

    I think my favourite was the organist who following a dispute with the clergy played 'Send in the Clowns' as they processed in.

    There was also the mischievous young vegetarian organist who played 'Sheep may safely graze' at the funeral of a butcher, fortunately without anyone in the congregation making the connection.

    I attended a passing out parade at Sandhurst where the band of the Royal Marines played Fat Bottomed Girls, Mercury and May...
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,735
    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    Awesome article linked by @MyBurningEars on the previous thread, about Tony Bloom and his Starlizard betting syndicate. Well worth a (long) read.
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/inside-story-star-lizard-tony-bloom-2016-2

    Can't take too much credit for it, think it was Francis U (and if not him, one of our other [ex] pro-gamblers) who linked to it several yonks ago. Glad you enjoyed though!
    I honestly can't remember if it was originally me or not. The tales of bob voulgaris (for many years the world's best basketball gambler) are also worth a google and of course billy Walters.
    You've definitely linked to some excellent articles on Bob Voulgaris before, and Walters/The Computer Group (another long read that @Sandpit might enjoy, though again I can't remember if this is the one Francis linked originally!)
    I was at VC in Gib at the same time as Bloom, fair to say he has kicked on a bit more than me! My flat mate was one of the boys who got his bets on in Asia

    StarLizards hours are meant to be insanely unsociable even by betting standards though. Something like 6 weekend days off a year. But prob the best place to work if you can suffer that
    Interesting to know, thank you.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,625
    Joyous & Civic - Unionists are Nazis:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/899329323576037376
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Joyous & Civic - Unionists are Nazis:

    If the Nationalists really were joyous and civic, Nicola wouldn't be quite so keen to pretend she isn't one
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,625
    Scott_P said:

    Joyous & Civic - Unionists are Nazis:

    If the Nationalists really were joyous and civic, Nicola wouldn't be quite so keen to pretend she isn't one
    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/898531539553841156
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    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Jossias Jessop

    Either small explosive charge or or burning cord, home made or commercial. The cannisters just avoid the need for large amounts of regular or homemade explosives mixes, which can be easier to spot in the production chain.

    Barcelona

    Im usually fairly quick to defend security and intelligence agencies when they get canned for every little error or indeed because they are usually working with half the deck of cards. Barcelona, however, looks to be a genuine intelligence and policing failure.

    1. The local authorities didn't take the threat seriously in that region, or didn't want to acknowledge them. Whilst there were direct CIA warnings regarding Barcelona, the casual observer should be aware that such warnings are general in nature, such as big ear reception where a city is mentioned but with no details of timelines.

    2. This despite the fact regional area south west of the city has a notable salafist element amongst the Muslim population

    3. The Spanish ands Moroccan authorities were aware of problems within the Moroccan community in Spain and of infiltration by Moroccans of ill intent coming in as migrants. That suggests there was a welcome network probably in place in the first place. The Moroccans have in past co-operated and shared a fair amount with the Spanish.

    4. Despite such a sizable active cell (you work on basis that maybe as many as involved here had an idea of its existence) the local authorities don't seem to have record of any of them (or just haven't admitted it) . No knowledge at all is a serious lapse, in fact for something of that size its rare.

    As I mentioned the other night, this cluster (or phase) of attacks, starting with Barcelona and working through the incident in Finland are network led and only part way through.

    Trumpton.

    Take note of those figures in the headline article. On Friday I said the Congressional GOP was beginning to count numbers that might be willing to oust Trump. They now know the damage he is doing to their party.

    Way back before the election, it was clear Trump was in way over his head because of many many unpleasant links. It was always going to do serious damage when it came under scrutiny (as it was by the security agencies before November)

    Think its bad now? Its only going to get worse.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,625
    During the EU referendum campaign, the Leave campaign said that the £350 million that the UK contributes to the EU budget should be given to the NHS instead.

    Believed it - will happen: - 10%
    Believed it - won't happen: - 15%
    Did not believe it - will happen - 7%
    Did not Believe it - won't happen: - 47%
    Did not make this claim: - 8%
    Never heard of it: - 13%

    http://opinium.co.uk/political-polling-15th-august-2017/
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,625
    Y0kel said:

    No knowledge at all is a serious lapse, in fact for something of that size its rare.

    Systemic - eg poor cooperation between Madrid & Barcelona or just incompetence?
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    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307

    Y0kel said:

    No knowledge at all is a serious lapse, in fact for something of that size its rare.

    Systemic - eg poor cooperation between Madrid & Barcelona or just incompetence?
    That kind of terror intelligence is at very least centrally co-ordinated but may to regional authorities for all or most active counter terror policing efforts on their own patch. Don't know how Spain works its counter terror policing but most likely is a failure of both national and regional agencies.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960
    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    Awesome article linked by @MyBurningEars on the previous thread, about Tony Bloom and his Starlizard betting syndicate. Well worth a (long) read.
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/inside-story-star-lizard-tony-bloom-2016-2

    Can't take too much credit for it, think it was Francis U (and if not him, one of our other [ex] pro-gamblers) who linked to it several yonks ago. Glad you enjoyed though!
    I honestly can't remember if it was originally me or not. The tales of bob voulgaris (for many years the world's best basketball gambler) are also worth a google and of course billy Walters.
    You've definitely linked to some excellent articles on Bob Voulgaris before, and Walters/The Computer Group (another long read that @Sandpit might enjoy, though again I can't remember if this is the one Francis linked originally!)
    I was at VC in Gib at the same time as Bloom, fair to say he has kicked on a bit more than me! My flat mate was one of the boys who got his bets on in Asia

    StarLizards hours are meant to be insanely unsociable even by betting standards though. Something like 6 weekend days off a year. But prob the best place to work if you can suffer that
    I know Starlizard pretty well, and have been a guest of Tony's at Brighton and Hove Albion. He's a stupendously nice guy for someone so successful.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,625
    Scottish Tory Surge Klaxon!!!!!

    Opinium - Scotland sub-sample (base size 123)

    SNP: 37
    Con: 36
    Lab: 23
    LD: 2

    OA figures were Con: 40, Lab 43, LD 6, UKIP 4 Green 2
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,960

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Awesome article linked by @MyBurningEars on the previous thread, about Tony Bloom and his Starlizard betting syndicate. Well worth a (long) read.
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/inside-story-star-lizard-tony-bloom-2016-2

    Can't take too much credit for it, think it was Francis U (and if not him, one of our other [ex] pro-gamblers) who linked to it several yonks ago. Glad you enjoyed though!
    I honestly can't remember if it was originally me or not. The tales of bob voulgaris (for many years the world's best basketball gambler) are also worth a google and of course billy Walters.
    We’ve definitely discussed Walters and Voulgaris on here before, but that was the first I’ve heard of Tony Bloom. Amazing to see the scale of the operation and the amount of money involved.
    For those in the game him and Matthew Benham are very well known.
    The other big pro gambler is based in Tasmania: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/01/21/tasmanian-devil
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Scott_P said:
    But just what is that sort of polling supposed to teach us?

    You'd have said "Disapprove" because you don't want us to leave.
    I'd have also said "Disapprove" because we haven't said No Deal, stuck two fingers up at 'em and nuked Madrid on the way out the door.

    So it seems a little pointless as an educational exercise.
This discussion has been closed.