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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast: What do the DUP want? Will t

SystemSystem Posts: 11,005
edited December 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast: What do the DUP want? Will there be a united Ireland? Why do Survation have Labour +8 when others don’t? (and more)

On this week’s podcast, Keiran is joined by Mick Fealty of Slugger O’Toole to discuss what the DUP really wants from Brexit negotiations, the role that Irish domestic politics is playing and will play moving forward plus a new poll apparently showing support in Northern Ireland for a united Ireland with EU membership.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,954
    First like the DUP.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821
    edited December 2017
    2nd like Tories next GE
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    What....yet another new thread....these change faster than the Bitcoin price.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Stupid Vanilla ate my comment :o
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,560
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    What....yet another new thread....these change faster than the Bitcoin price.

    Or BoJo's red lines
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,011
    On topic, this was a good piece on Slugger O'Toole recently:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/12/04/how-brexit-is-destroying-nis-centre-ground-and-could-take-the-union-with-it/

    How brexit is destroying Northern Ireland’s centre ground – and could take the Union with it
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,280
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    What....yet another new thread....these change faster than the Bitcoin price.

    Fast moving events these days.

    Just imagine what life will be like when we move on to phase II of the Brexit talks.

    It'll be like the Sunday 26th of June 2016 when I published six or seven threads in one day.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821
    RobD said:

    Stupid Vanilla ate my comment :o

    4TH
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,011
    https://twitter.com/carldinnen/status/938887604354932737
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,560
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    What....yet another new thread....these change faster than the Bitcoin price.

    Fast moving events these days.

    Just imagine what life will be like when we move on to phase II of the Brexit talks.

    It'll be like the Sunday 26th of June 2016 when I published six or seven threads in one day.
    Five
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    I see the Quote button seems to be working...
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,435
    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/carldinnen/status/938887604354932737

    DUP once again showing their favourite word in the English language starts with N and ends with O.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    rcs1000 said:

    I see the Quote button seems to be working...

    Finally... ;)
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,560
    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/carldinnen/status/938887604354932737


    So she bloody well should - time to call their bluff. Oh and cancel the promised £1bn while she's about it!
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,011
    numbertwelve said:

    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/carldinnen/status/938887604354932737

    DUP once again showing their favourite word in the English language starts with N and ends with O.
    Their second favourite starts with N and ends with ever.
  • Options
    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    williamglenn said:

    On topic, this was a good piece on Slugger O'Toole recently:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/12/04/how-brexit-is-destroying-nis-centre-ground-and-could-take-the-union-with-it/

    How brexit is destroying Northern Ireland’s centre ground – and could take the Union with it

    Good article. Interesting statistic that the unionist parties get 49.5% of the vote in Northern Ireland, declining by 1.5% every ten years.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,560
    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/carldinnen/status/938887604354932737

    Surely not even Tezza could endure another last-minute let down after this current round of expectation building. Could she?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,280
    edited December 2017
    Benpointer said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    What....yet another new thread....these change faster than the Bitcoin price.

    Fast moving events these days.

    Just imagine what life will be like when we move on to phase II of the Brexit talks.

    It'll be like the Sunday 26th of June 2016 when I published six or seven threads in one day.
    Five
    8 uploaded.

    3 pulled (Two on the cutting room floor, one because of events, one because of David Herdson, one pushed a few days later)

    I remember it well, I went to bed at just after 1am and got an alert that Corbyn had sacked Benn then a text from a journalist that a coup was beginning.

    I was not impressed.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/746869888581525505
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    What....yet another new thread....these change faster than the Bitcoin price.

    Fast moving events these days.

    Just imagine what life will be like when we move on to phase II of the Brexit talks.

    It'll be like the Sunday 26th of June 2016 when I published six or seven threads in one day.
    So it will be more like iOS updates ...
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,560
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Benpointer said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    What....yet another new thread....these change faster than the Bitcoin price.

    Fast moving events these days.

    Just imagine what life will be like when we move on to phase II of the Brexit talks.

    It'll be like the Sunday 26th of June 2016 when I published six or seven threads in one day.
    Five
    8 uploaded.

    3 pulled (Two on the cutting room floor, one because of events, one because of David Herdson, one pushed a few days later)

    I remember it well, I went to bed at just after 1am and got an alert that Corbyn had sacked Benn then a text from a journalist that a coup was beginning.

    I was not impressed.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/746869888581525505
    Fair enough - I concede :smile:
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,280
    rcs1000 said:

    I see the Quote button seems to be working...

    Was it not working?

    No one mentioned it.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,560
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    What....yet another new thread....these change faster than the Bitcoin price.

    Fast moving events these days.

    Just imagine what life will be like when we move on to phase II of the Brexit talks.

    It'll be like the Sunday 26th of June 2016 when I published six or seven threads in one day.
    So it will be more like iOS updates ...

    To be fair, not many of TSE's threads are to fix the one that had just been issued.

    Then again, to be fair to Apple, at least they fix them, unlike you know who.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,280
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    What....yet another new thread....these change faster than the Bitcoin price.

    Fast moving events these days.

    Just imagine what life will be like when we move on to phase II of the Brexit talks.

    It'll be like the Sunday 26th of June 2016 when I published six or seven threads in one day.
    So it will be more like iOS updates ...
    Thanks to iOS 11.2 I've been introduced to the joys of fast wireless charging.

    It is da bomb.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,560
    edited December 2017
    Slightly off topic, yet topical... Does anyone actually believe the DUP would bring down this government and let Corbyn's Labour in?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    What....yet another new thread....these change faster than the Bitcoin price.

    Fast moving events these days.

    Just imagine what life will be like when we move on to phase II of the Brexit talks.

    It'll be like the Sunday 26th of June 2016 when I published six or seven threads in one day.
    So it will be more like iOS updates ...
    Thanks to iOS 11.2 I've been introduced to the joys of fast wireless charging.

    It is da bomb.
    Welcome to 2016....that has been available from other phone manufacturer for ages...
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    edited December 2017
    Benpointer said:

    Slightly off topic, yet topical... Does anyone actually believe the DUP would bring down this government and let Corbyn's Labour in?

    No.

    But, that wouldn't stop them from making the government's life miserable, by siding with the Opposition when they saw fit, if the C & S deal ended.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,280
    For the first time, entire rounds of Premier League matches will be shown live under the next UK broadcast deal, Telegraph Sport can reveal.

    The games will be broadcast in midweek and on Bank Holidays. Saturday night matches will also be up for grabs, pitching live football against the likes of Strictly Come Dancing and The X Factor in the battle for a share of the massive and lucrative weekend audience.

    The world’s richest league on Thursday night issued the tender document for the television rights to its fixtures for the 2019-22 seasons, a copy of which has been seen by Telegraph Sport.

    It can be revealed that the league will make 200 of its 380 matches a year available, 42 more than at present, with three rounds of midweek and one of Bank Holiday games accounting for all but two of the additional fixtures.

    The 2019 season will also herald the advent of regular Saturday night Premier League football, with eight matches per season on offer under a three-year contract in which clubs are targeting an increase in the eye-watering £5.14 billion they secured from Sky Sports and BT Sport for the existing rights.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/12/07/full-rounds-premier-league-games-shown-live-tv-first-time/
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,560
    Sean_F said:

    Benpointer said:

    Slightly off topic, yet topical... Does anyone actually believe the DUP would bring down this government and let Corbyn's Labour in?

    No.

    But, that wouldn't stop them from making the government's life miserable, by siding with the Opposition when they saw fit, if the C & S deal ended.
    February GE anyone?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    For the first time, entire rounds of Premier League matches will be shown live under the next UK broadcast deal, Telegraph Sport can reveal.

    The games will be broadcast in midweek and on Bank Holidays. Saturday night matches will also be up for grabs, pitching live football against the likes of Strictly Come Dancing and The X Factor in the battle for a share of the massive and lucrative weekend audience.

    The world’s richest league on Thursday night issued the tender document for the television rights to its fixtures for the 2019-22 seasons, a copy of which has been seen by Telegraph Sport.

    It can be revealed that the league will make 200 of its 380 matches a year available, 42 more than at present, with three rounds of midweek and one of Bank Holiday games accounting for all but two of the additional fixtures.

    The 2019 season will also herald the advent of regular Saturday night Premier League football, with eight matches per season on offer under a three-year contract in which clubs are targeting an increase in the eye-watering £5.14 billion they secured from Sky Sports and BT Sport for the existing rights.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/12/07/full-rounds-premier-league-games-shown-live-tv-first-time/

    When will they just copy the US Redzone model that is wildly successful...and stop burying their heads in the sand over 3pm kick-offs that nobody, absolutely nobody, not at all, can see (now everybody has decent internet).
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited December 2017
    Benpointer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Benpointer said:

    Slightly off topic, yet topical... Does anyone actually believe the DUP would bring down this government and let Corbyn's Labour in?

    No.

    But, that wouldn't stop them from making the government's life miserable, by siding with the Opposition when they saw fit, if the C & S deal ended.
    February GE anyone?
    Rather not...its still very cold in Canada then! Can we wait until the summer at least.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    nielh said:

    williamglenn said:

    On topic, this was a good piece on Slugger O'Toole recently:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/12/04/how-brexit-is-destroying-nis-centre-ground-and-could-take-the-union-with-it/

    How brexit is destroying Northern Ireland’s centre ground – and could take the Union with it

    Good article. Interesting statistic that the unionist parties get 49.5% of the vote in Northern Ireland, declining by 1.5% every ten years.
    It is a good article and it sums up my feelings too.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,560
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Benpointer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Benpointer said:

    Slightly off topic, yet topical... Does anyone actually believe the DUP would bring down this government and let Corbyn's Labour in?

    No.

    But, that wouldn't stop them from making the government's life miserable, by siding with the Opposition when they saw fit, if the C & S deal ended.
    February GE anyone?
    Rather not...its still very cold in Canada then! Can we wait until the summer at least.
    I am not sure that the temperature in Canada will be the prime consideration tbh :smile:
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Benpointer said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Benpointer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Benpointer said:

    Slightly off topic, yet topical... Does anyone actually believe the DUP would bring down this government and let Corbyn's Labour in?

    No.

    But, that wouldn't stop them from making the government's life miserable, by siding with the Opposition when they saw fit, if the C & S deal ended.
    February GE anyone?
    Rather not...its still very cold in Canada then! Can we wait until the summer at least.
    I am not sure that the temperature in Canada will be the prime consideration tbh :smile:
    It is for me.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/12/07/brexit-and-the-british-empire/

    "The rhetoric of Brexit, the vague exhortations to “take back control” and similar sentiments seems to contain within them a hope for Empire 2.0. Opponents or those who simply raise practical concerns are often told off for “talking Britain down”, reminded that Britain once ruled much of the world and can certainly make a success of their new freedom to negotiate trade deals with anyone in the world. This is the Britain of the British East India Company, after all! Who needs experts?"
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,011
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Benpointer said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Benpointer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Benpointer said:

    Slightly off topic, yet topical... Does anyone actually believe the DUP would bring down this government and let Corbyn's Labour in?

    No.

    But, that wouldn't stop them from making the government's life miserable, by siding with the Opposition when they saw fit, if the C & S deal ended.
    February GE anyone?
    Rather not...its still very cold in Canada then! Can we wait until the summer at least.
    I am not sure that the temperature in Canada will be the prime consideration tbh :smile:
    It is for me.
    Is Corbyn planning to tax CryptoKitties?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited December 2017
    williamglenn said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Benpointer said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Benpointer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Benpointer said:

    Slightly off topic, yet topical... Does anyone actually believe the DUP would bring down this government and let Corbyn's Labour in?

    No.

    But, that wouldn't stop them from making the government's life miserable, by siding with the Opposition when they saw fit, if the C & S deal ended.
    February GE anyone?
    Rather not...its still very cold in Canada then! Can we wait until the summer at least.
    I am not sure that the temperature in Canada will be the prime consideration tbh :smile:
    It is for me.
    Is Corbyn planning to tax CryptoKitties?
    Oh he can tax those bastards all he likes...101% tax rate on them.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    Benpointer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Benpointer said:

    Slightly off topic, yet topical... Does anyone actually believe the DUP would bring down this government and let Corbyn's Labour in?

    No.

    But, that wouldn't stop them from making the government's life miserable, by siding with the Opposition when they saw fit, if the C & S deal ended.
    February GE anyone?
    The Tories did about as well in June as in 1951 (318 out of 632 seats in GB compared to 312 out of 613) But, back then, their Unionist allies were very loyal, whereas now, they're ruthless opportunists.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    https://mobile.twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/938894179199045633

    Looks a good night for Theresa May, DUP inching towards agreement with the UK, Irish Government and the EU on the Irish border
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Beverley_C said:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/12/07/brexit-and-the-british-empire/

    "The rhetoric of Brexit, the vague exhortations to “take back control” and similar sentiments seems to contain within them a hope for Empire 2.0. Opponents or those who simply raise practical concerns are often told off for “talking Britain down”, reminded that Britain once ruled much of the world and can certainly make a success of their new freedom to negotiate trade deals with anyone in the world. This is the Britain of the British East India Company, after all! Who needs experts?"

    The only people I've heard go on about the Empire are Remainers, not Leavers. Not a single person brought it up on the doorstep during the campaign. As for having ambition for the country, it is infinitely preferable to learned helplessness.

    I am not afraid of a border poll in Ulster. More Catholics would vote for the Union than Protestants for the Republic.
  • Options
    BudGBudG Posts: 711
    HYUFD said:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/938894179199045633

    Looks a good night for Theresa May, DUP inching towards agreement with the UK, Irish Government and the EU on the Irish border

    Looks like another defeat to me. Is she REALLY going to agree to ECJ oversight for another ten years??
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    BudG said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/938894179199045633

    Looks a good night for Theresa May, DUP inching towards agreement with the UK, Irish Government and the EU on the Irish border

    Looks like another defeat to me. Is she REALLY going to agree to ECJ oversight for another ten years??
    Sounds like a reasonable compromise. No doubt the EU wanted ECJ oversight to continue indefinitely.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    BudG said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/938894179199045633

    Looks a good night for Theresa May, DUP inching towards agreement with the UK, Irish Government and the EU on the Irish border

    Looks like another defeat to me. Is she REALLY going to agree to ECJ oversight for another ten years??
    We'll have been a member for 46 years by the time we leave, and we had a 6 or 7 year transition when we joined.

    It's a long sentence, but not for life :smile:
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    More promising news:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/07/theresa-may-close-brexit-agreement-eu-dup-weigh-deal/
  • Options
    sladeslade Posts: 1,929
    Apparently the Government have done an impact assessment on the chimes from ice cream vans. They really know what is important in 21st century Britain.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,336
    rcs1000 said:

    I see the Quote button seems to be working...

    I take it all back - you are clearly slightly more competent than David Davis.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    BudG said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/938894179199045633

    Looks a good night for Theresa May, DUP inching towards agreement with the UK, Irish Government and the EU on the Irish border

    Looks like another defeat to me. Is she REALLY going to agree to ECJ oversight for another ten years??
    Compared to permanent oversight it is clearly a better option
  • Options
    spire2spire2 Posts: 183
    Any betting on how long this deal will take to unravel?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,280
    https://twitter.com/SunPolitics/status/938903448199860224
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,954
    RoyalBlue said:

    Beverley_C said:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/12/07/brexit-and-the-british-empire/

    "The rhetoric of Brexit, the vague exhortations to “take back control” and similar sentiments seems to contain within them a hope for Empire 2.0. Opponents or those who simply raise practical concerns are often told off for “talking Britain down”, reminded that Britain once ruled much of the world and can certainly make a success of their new freedom to negotiate trade deals with anyone in the world. This is the Britain of the British East India Company, after all! Who needs experts?"

    The only people I've heard go on about the Empire are Remainers, not Leavers. Not a single person brought it up on the doorstep during the campaign. As for having ambition for the country, it is infinitely preferable to learned helplessness.

    I am not afraid of a border poll in Ulster. More Catholics would vote for the Union than Protestants for the Republic.
    Can you give a list of referendums you aren't afraid of, just for consistency's sake?

    Catalonian Independence Y/N
    Scottish Indy II Y/N
    Brexit II Y/N
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,011
    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/938903770108497922
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,954
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I see the Quote button seems to be working...

    I take it all back - you are clearly slightly more competent than David Davis.
    That's a keeper for any future CVs.
  • Options
    BudGBudG Posts: 711
    RoyalBlue said:

    BudG said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/938894179199045633

    Looks a good night for Theresa May, DUP inching towards agreement with the UK, Irish Government and the EU on the Irish border

    Looks like another defeat to me. Is she REALLY going to agree to ECJ oversight for another ten years??
    We'll have been a member for 46 years by the time we leave, and we had a 6 or 7 year transition when we joined.

    It's a long sentence, but not for life :smile:
    So on that basis, Leavers would be happy with another 10 years of FoM?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/SunPolitics/status/938903448199860224

    No change there then... ;)
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    BudG said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    BudG said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/938894179199045633

    Looks a good night for Theresa May, DUP inching towards agreement with the UK, Irish Government and the EU on the Irish border

    Looks like another defeat to me. Is she REALLY going to agree to ECJ oversight for another ten years??
    We'll have been a member for 46 years by the time we leave, and we had a 6 or 7 year transition when we joined.

    It's a long sentence, but not for life :smile:
    So on that basis, Leavers would be happy with another 10 years of FoM?
    The deal is a lot better than indefinite ECJ jurisdiction.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    BudG said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    BudG said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/938894179199045633

    Looks a good night for Theresa May, DUP inching towards agreement with the UK, Irish Government and the EU on the Irish border

    Looks like another defeat to me. Is she REALLY going to agree to ECJ oversight for another ten years??
    We'll have been a member for 46 years by the time we leave, and we had a 6 or 7 year transition when we joined.

    It's a long sentence, but not for life :smile:
    So on that basis, Leavers would be happy with another 10 years of FoM?
    We might get a little hot under the collar, but whatever it takes...
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    BudG said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    BudG said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/938894179199045633

    Looks a good night for Theresa May, DUP inching towards agreement with the UK, Irish Government and the EU on the Irish border

    Looks like another defeat to me. Is she REALLY going to agree to ECJ oversight for another ten years??
    We'll have been a member for 46 years by the time we leave, and we had a 6 or 7 year transition when we joined.

    It's a long sentence, but not for life :smile:
    So on that basis, Leavers would be happy with another 10 years of FoM?
    No as it is mainly ECJ jurisdiction in relation to EU citizens already in UK
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,918
    Beverley_C said:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/12/07/brexit-and-the-british-empire/

    "The rhetoric of Brexit, the vague exhortations to “take back control” and similar sentiments seems to contain within them a hope for Empire 2.0. Opponents or those who simply raise practical concerns are often told off for “talking Britain down”, reminded that Britain once ruled much of the world and can certainly make a success of their new freedom to negotiate trade deals with anyone in the world. This is the Britain of the British East India Company, after all! Who needs experts?"

    The reason we are in the EU in the first place was the arrogance of British politicians and bureaucrats who saw Europe as a replacement for the Empire and thought if only we could be in it we would naturally rule the whole thing. Ignorance and arrogance. Kind of sums up British Europhiles both then and now.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Theuniondivvie said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Beverley_C said:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/12/07/brexit-and-the-british-empire/

    "The rhetoric of Brexit, the vague exhortations to “take back control” and similar sentiments seems to contain within them a hope for Empire 2.0. Opponents or those who simply raise practical concerns are often told off for “talking Britain down”, reminded that Britain once ruled much of the world and can certainly make a success of their new freedom to negotiate trade deals with anyone in the world. This is the Britain of the British East India Company, after all! Who needs experts?"

    The only people I've heard go on about the Empire are Remainers, not Leavers. Not a single person brought it up on the doorstep during the campaign. As for having ambition for the country, it is infinitely preferable to learned helplessness.

    I am not afraid of a border poll in Ulster. More Catholics would vote for the Union than Protestants for the Republic.
    Can you give a list of referendums you aren't afraid of, just for consistency's sake?

    Catalonian Independence Y/N
    Scottish Indy II Y/N
    Brexit II Y/N
    None of those, provided they are held in accordance with the constitution in the first case and Acts of Parliament in the second and third.

    I would welcome a Scottish rematch. The area I campaigned in last time was 2-1 for the Union. Not that I'm taking credit :smile:
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,280
    edited December 2017
    I find it touching that people think a future Labour government wont extend the ECJ jurisdiction past 2019.

    Good night.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    HYUFD said:

    BudG said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    BudG said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/938894179199045633

    Looks a good night for Theresa May, DUP inching towards agreement with the UK, Irish Government and the EU on the Irish border

    Looks like another defeat to me. Is she REALLY going to agree to ECJ oversight for another ten years??
    We'll have been a member for 46 years by the time we leave, and we had a 6 or 7 year transition when we joined.

    It's a long sentence, but not for life :smile:
    So on that basis, Leavers would be happy with another 10 years of FoM?
    No as it is mainly ECJ jurisdiction in relation to EU citizens already in UK
    Can you please private message me the party line so we can be more coordinated?

    Thanks :wink:
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,215
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    What....yet another new thread....these change faster than the Bitcoin price.

    Fast moving events these days.

    Just imagine what life will be like when we move on to phase II of the Brexit talks.

    It'll be like the Sunday 26th of June 2016 when I published six or seven threads in one day.
    So it will be more like iOS updates ...
    Thanks to iOS 11.2 I've been introduced to the joys of fast wireless charging.

    It is da bomb.
    Welcome to 2016....that has been available from other phone manufacturer for ages...
    Isn't that the one that makes a lot of older apps unusable?
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I find it touching that people think a future Labour government wont extend the ECJ jurisdiction past 2019.

    Good night.

    It will be in the secession treaty. Good luck amending that.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,280
    RoyalBlue said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I find it touching that people think a future Labour government wont extend the ECJ jurisdiction past 2019.

    Good night.

    It will be in the secession treaty. Good luck amending that.
    And the EU wont be willing to extend the ECJ's jurisdiction in the UK via a new treaty?

    Bless.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I find it touching that people think a future Labour government wont extend the ECJ jurisdiction past 2019.

    Good night.

    It will be in the secession treaty. Good luck amending that.
    And the EU wont be willing to extend the ECJ's jurisdiction in the UK via a new treaty?

    Bless.
    And why would Labour do that? They don't trust the UK courts to decide things?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,954
    RoyalBlue said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Beverley_C said:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/12/07/brexit-and-the-british-empire/

    "The rhetoric of Brexit, the vague exhortations to “take back control” and similar sentiments seems to contain within them a hope for Empire 2.0. Opponents or those who simply raise practical concerns are often told off for “talking Britain down”, reminded that Britain once ruled much of the world and can certainly make a success of their new freedom to negotiate trade deals with anyone in the world. This is the Britain of the British East India Company, after all! Who needs experts?"

    The only people I've heard go on about the Empire are Remainers, not Leavers. Not a single person brought it up on the doorstep during the campaign. As for having ambition for the country, it is infinitely preferable to learned helplessness.

    I am not afraid of a border poll in Ulster. More Catholics would vote for the Union than Protestants for the Republic.
    Can you give a list of referendums you aren't afraid of, just for consistency's sake?

    Catalonian Independence Y/N
    Scottish Indy II Y/N
    Brexit II Y/N
    None of those, provided they are held in accordance with the constitution in the first case and Acts of Parliament in the second and third.

    I would welcome a Scottish rematch. The area I campaigned in last time was 2-1 for the Union. Not that I'm taking credit :smile:
    Obviously your efforts on behalf of Brexit were sorely missed in Scotland.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I find it touching that people think a future Labour government wont extend the ECJ jurisdiction past 2019.

    Good night.

    It will be in the secession treaty. Good luck amending that.
    And the EU wont be willing to extend the ECJ's jurisdiction in the UK via a new treaty?

    Bless.
    You think Corbyn wants ECJ jurisdiction over his nationalisation programme and exchange controls?

    Bless your heart.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    LD gain in North Devon:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/938908651254792192
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,940
    HYUFD said:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/938894179199045633

    Looks a good night for Theresa May, DUP inching towards agreement with the UK, Irish Government and the EU on the Irish border

    Yes. But what is the agreement? Until we know that how can it be a good night for her?
    Or is a Bad Deal better than No Deal suddenly?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,280
    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I find it touching that people think a future Labour government wont extend the ECJ jurisdiction past 2019.

    Good night.

    It will be in the secession treaty. Good luck amending that.
    And the EU wont be willing to extend the ECJ's jurisdiction in the UK via a new treaty?

    Bless.
    And why would Labour do that? They don't trust the UK courts to decide things?
    To take us back into the single market, customs unions, and things like Euroatom, if Brexit turns out be an economic mistake.

    If we're already under the auspices of the ECJ then it won't be such a big step.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I find it touching that people think a future Labour government wont extend the ECJ jurisdiction past 2019.

    Good night.

    It will be in the secession treaty. Good luck amending that.
    And the EU wont be willing to extend the ECJ's jurisdiction in the UK via a new treaty?

    Bless.
    And why would Labour do that? They don't trust the UK courts to decide things?
    To take us back into the single market, customs unions, and things like Euroatom, if Brexit turns out be an economic mistake.

    If we're already under the auspices of the ECJ then it won't be such a big step.
    Oh, well naturally they'd have to get us under the ECJ if they wanted to do that. I thought you meant for the specific case of citizen rights.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I see the Quote button seems to be working...

    Was it not working?

    No one mentioned it.
    What quote button didnt know there was one
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    Bottom line in any deal Mrs May gets - it delivers what the EU27 want. As they want ongoing, guaranteed protection for EU citizens currently resident in the UK based on the rights they currently enjoy that’s what there will be.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,280
    RoyalBlue said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I find it touching that people think a future Labour government wont extend the ECJ jurisdiction past 2019.

    Good night.

    It will be in the secession treaty. Good luck amending that.
    And the EU wont be willing to extend the ECJ's jurisdiction in the UK via a new treaty?

    Bless.
    You think Corbyn wants ECJ jurisdiction over his nationalisation programme and exchange controls?

    Bless your heart.
    Unlike puppies for Christmas, Corbyn isn't forever.

    Plus Labour's Brexit Secretary this week talked about remaining in the single market and customs union.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    SouthamObserver said:

    Bottom line in any deal Mrs May gets - it delivers what the EU27 want. As they want ongoing, guaranteed protection for EU citizens currently resident in the UK based on the rights they currently enjoy that’s what there will be.

    After ten years they'll just be rounded up and kicked out.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    edited December 2017
    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/carldinnen/status/938887604354932737

    Will the Tories knife Theresa tomorrow?
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    edited December 2017
    Theuniondivvie said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Beverley_C said:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/12/07/brexit-and-the-british-empire/

    "The rhetoric of Brexit, the vague exhortations to “take back control” and similar sentiments seems to contain within them a hope for Empire 2.0. Opponents or those who simply raise practical concerns are often told off for “talking Britain down”, reminded that Britain once ruled much of the world and can certainly make a success of their new freedom to negotiate trade deals with anyone in the world. This is the Britain of the British East India Company, after all! Who needs experts?"

    The only people I've heard go on about the Empire are Remainers, not Leavers. Not a single person brought it up on the doorstep during the campaign. As for having ambition for the country, it is infinitely preferable to learned helplessness.

    I am not afraid of a border poll in Ulster. More Catholics would vote for the Union than Protestants for the Republic.
    Can you give a list of referendums you aren't afraid of, just for consistency's sake?

    Catalonian Independence Y/N
    Scottish Indy II Y/N
    Brexit II Y/N
    None of those, provided they are held in accordance with the constitution in the first case and Acts of Parliament in the second and third.

    I would welcome a Scottish rematch. The area I campaigned in last time was 2-1 for the Union. Not that I'm taking credit :smile:
    Obviously your efforts on behalf of Brexit were sorely missed in Scotland.
    :lol: so it would seem...

    If only I'd gone to Moray! At least the map wouldn't have been all Remain...

    EDIT Where are you roughly in Scotland btw?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,011
    edited December 2017
    RoyalBlue said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Beverley_C said:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/12/07/brexit-and-the-british-empire/

    "The rhetoric of Brexit, the vague exhortations to “take back control” and similar sentiments seems to contain within them a hope for Empire 2.0. Opponents or those who simply raise practical concerns are often told off for “talking Britain down”, reminded that Britain once ruled much of the world and can certainly make a success of their new freedom to negotiate trade deals with anyone in the world. This is the Britain of the British East India Company, after all! Who needs experts?"

    The only people I've heard go on about the Empire are Remainers, not Leavers. Not a single person brought it up on the doorstep during the campaign. As for having ambition for the country, it is infinitely preferable to learned helplessness.

    I am not afraid of a border poll in Ulster. More Catholics would vote for the Union than Protestants for the Republic.
    Can you give a list of referendums you aren't afraid of, just for consistency's sake?

    Catalonian Independence Y/N
    Scottish Indy II Y/N
    Brexit II Y/N
    None of those, provided they are held in accordance with the constitution in the first case and Acts of Parliament in the second and third.

    I would welcome a Scottish rematch. The area I campaigned in last time was 2-1 for the Union. Not that I'm taking credit :smile:
    Obviously your efforts on behalf of Brexit were sorely missed in Scotland.
    :lol: so it would seem...

    If only I'd gone to Moray! At least the map wouldn't have been all Remain...
    The best salesmen only call the people who are ready to buy. ;)
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I find it touching that people think a future Labour government wont extend the ECJ jurisdiction past 2019.

    Good night.

    It will be in the secession treaty. Good luck amending that.
    And the EU wont be willing to extend the ECJ's jurisdiction in the UK via a new treaty?

    Bless.
    You think Corbyn wants ECJ jurisdiction over his nationalisation programme and exchange controls?

    Bless your heart.
    Unlike puppies for Christmas, Corbyn isn't forever.

    Plus Labour's Brexit Secretary this week talked about remaining in the single market and customs union.
    Neither is Brexit. Once we've formally left, the public be even more bored by the topic. There'll be headlines and excitement in 2021 when we leave the customs union and Single Market, but it won't last.

    Neither party will want to major on Europe by the time we get to May 2022.
  • Options
    sladeslade Posts: 1,929
    North Devon, Newport: LD 390, Con 373, Green 159, Lab 83.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    edited December 2017
    slade said:

    North Devon, Newport: LD 390, Con 373, Green 159, Lab 83.

    Commiserations to the Tory candidate. So close...
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Bottom line in any deal Mrs May gets - it delivers what the EU27 want. As they want ongoing, guaranteed protection for EU citizens currently resident in the UK based on the rights they currently enjoy that’s what there will be.

    After ten years they'll just be rounded up and kicked out.

    It’s a can kicked a long way down the road. It does open up the possibility of further and similar creativity once we get to Phase Two. That would be very good news, of course.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    SouthamObserver said:

    RobD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Bottom line in any deal Mrs May gets - it delivers what the EU27 want. As they want ongoing, guaranteed protection for EU citizens currently resident in the UK based on the rights they currently enjoy that’s what there will be.

    After ten years they'll just be rounded up and kicked out.

    It’s a can kicked a long way down the road. It does open up the possibility of further and similar creativity once we get to Phase Two. That would be very good news, of course.

    Funny way of doing it, by putting it in a treaty. ;)
  • Options
    sladeslade Posts: 1,929
    RoyalBlue said:

    slade said:

    North Devon, Newport: LD 390, Con 373, Green 159, Lab 83.

    Commiserations to the Tory candidate. So close...
    The Tories have won this ward in every election since 2003.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,215
    edited December 2017
    RoyalBlue said:

    slade said:

    North Devon, Newport: LD 390, Con 373, Green 159, Lab 83.

    Commiserations to the Tory candidate. So close...
    The Tories won by 8% last time, and their candidate was already a town councillor. So another good win for the LibDems on the heels of last week's clean sweep.

    Edit/and even more impressive given that last time there was no Labour candidate
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    RoyalBlue said:

    slade said:

    North Devon, Newport: LD 390, Con 373, Green 159, Lab 83.

    Commiserations to the Tory candidate. So close...
    Weighed down by the millstone of being a Tory.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited December 2017
    slade said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    slade said:

    North Devon, Newport: LD 390, Con 373, Green 159, Lab 83.

    Commiserations to the Tory candidate. So close...
    The Tories have won this ward in every election since 2003.
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/938913306974269441
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    RoyalBlue said:

    HYUFD said:

    BudG said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    BudG said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/938894179199045633

    Looks a good night for Theresa May, DUP inching towards agreement with the UK, Irish Government and the EU on the Irish border

    Looks like another defeat to me. Is she REALLY going to agree to ECJ oversight for another ten years??
    We'll have been a member for 46 years by the time we leave, and we had a 6 or 7 year transition when we joined.

    It's a long sentence, but not for life :smile:
    So on that basis, Leavers would be happy with another 10 years of FoM?
    No as it is mainly ECJ jurisdiction in relation to EU citizens already in UK
    Can you please private message me the party line so we can be more coordinated?

    Thanks :wink:
    CCHQ earpiece in the post!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    SouthamObserver said:

    Bottom line in any deal Mrs May gets - it delivers what the EU27 want. As they want ongoing, guaranteed protection for EU citizens currently resident in the UK based on the rights they currently enjoy that’s what there will be.

    As long as it ends FOM then fine
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Give tory support on here when lib dem narrow win and all the bloody Barnabys come out of the woodwork - lol
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,940
    LAB Hold Highway (Enfield). No surprise there then.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I find it touching that people think a future Labour government wont extend the ECJ jurisdiction past 2019.

    Good night.

    It will be in the secession treaty. Good luck amending that.
    And the EU wont be willing to extend the ECJ's jurisdiction in the UK via a new treaty?

    Bless.
    You think Corbyn wants ECJ jurisdiction over his nationalisation programme and exchange controls?

    Bless your heart.
    Unlike puppies for Christmas, Corbyn isn't forever.

    Plus Labour's Brexit Secretary this week talked about remaining in the single market and customs union.
    Corbyn is not going to do that and allow free movement and annoy Labour Leavers and ECJ jurisdiction over nationalisation etc and he is likely to be around for up to a decade
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,940
    slade said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    slade said:

    North Devon, Newport: LD 390, Con 373, Green 159, Lab 83.

    Commiserations to the Tory candidate. So close...
    The Tories have won this ward in every election since 2003.
    5% swing. Not dramatic, but not to be sniffed at either.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Good night and nos da to all. I hope to awake to news of real progress.

    Fingers crossed.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,954
    RoyalBlue said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Beverley_C said:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/12/07/brexit-and-the-british-empire/

    "The rhetoric of Brexit, the vague exhortations to “take back control” and similar sentiments seems to contain within them a hope for Empire 2.0. Opponents or those who simply raise practical concerns are often told off for “talking Britain down”, reminded that Britain once ruled much of the world and can certainly make a success of their new freedom to negotiate trade deals with anyone in the world. This is the Britain of the British East India Company, after all! Who needs experts?"

    The only people I've heard go on about the Empire are Remainers, not Leavers. Not a single person brought it up on the doorstep during the campaign. As for having ambition for the country, it is infinitely preferable to learned helplessness.

    I am not afraid of a border poll in Ulster. More Catholics would vote for the Union than Protestants for the Republic.
    Can you give a list of referendums you aren't afraid of, just for consistency's sake?

    Catalonian Independence Y/N
    Scottish Indy II Y/N
    Brexit II Y/N
    None of those, provided they are held in accordance with the constitution in the first case and Acts of Parliament in the second and third.

    I would welcome a Scottish rematch. The area I campaigned in last time was 2-1 for the Union. Not that I'm taking credit :smile:
    Obviously your efforts on behalf of Brexit were sorely missed in Scotland.
    :lol: so it would seem...

    If only I'd gone to Moray! At least the map wouldn't have been all Remain...

    EDIT Where are you roughly in Scotland btw?
    Glasgow, not too roughly.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    HYUFD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Bottom line in any deal Mrs May gets - it delivers what the EU27 want. As they want ongoing, guaranteed protection for EU citizens currently resident in the UK based on the rights they currently enjoy that’s what there will be.

    As long as it ends FOM then fine

    Not if it does so in name only.

  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/938917862818877441
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    SouthamObserver said:

    HYUFD said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Bottom line in any deal Mrs May gets - it delivers what the EU27 want. As they want ongoing, guaranteed protection for EU citizens currently resident in the UK based on the rights they currently enjoy that’s what there will be.

    As long as it ends FOM then fine

    Not if it does so in name only.

    How do you end it in name only?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,618
    FPT
    RoyalBlue said:

    Ladies and gentlemen - can I suggest a cordon sanitaire around Mr Meeks?

    This thread abundantly shows that he is experiencing Brexit as some kind of terrible personal cataclysm. There is no other reasonable explanation for the sheer volume and intensity of the bile and hatred he spews, not just at 17.4 million of his compatriots, but at well-intentioned people on PB who have spent hours trying to engage with him. All he offers in return is poison.

    There is nothing to be gained by engaging with him.

    I believe the cordon sanitaire you are describing is more usually known as a "safe space", and the activity you are engaged in as "no platforming". Such things are usually deprecated on PB.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,618
    Tykejohnno said:

    Give tory support on here when lib dem narrow win and all the bloody Barnabys come out of the woodwork - lol

    What's a "Barnaby"?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,618
    HYUFD said:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/938894179199045633

    Looks a good night for Theresa May, DUP inching towards agreement with the UK, Irish Government and the EU on the Irish border

    Agreed. Let us hope it continues.
This discussion has been closed.