On Trump pronouncing stuff: oddly, that's a bit like Edward III. He'd often announce he was killing people (such as the workmen responsible for a collapsed platform that almost led to his wife's death) but would give in to the entreaties of his wife and friends to spare them. It was a strategem to combine the medieval virtues of harsh justice and royal clemency, and worked very well.
I think it's fair to say Edward III did it slightly better, though...
Tories are completely blindsided by Corbyn’s past. The electorate don't care. 40 percent voted Labour . If they could only forget about it for a minute they might stand a chance of dealing with him effectively.
That’s not quite right. A large part of the electorate clearly does care a lot. But the part that doesn’t might be big enough to get Labour into power.
The Conservatives need to show how Jeremy Corbyn’s past is a problem for policy in the present for those not so far convinced.
They would do a lot better if they forgot about it entirely .
There’s a large chunk of the electorate who are super-motivated by such stories. They need to keep up the terror for them. I get that you, and many others, don’t care, but many do. The electorate is not one monolithic bloc. Different bits need to be reached in different ways.
But they would do far better explaining how Jeremy Corbyn’s past would lead to chaos in Northern Ireland now were he to come to power, rather than just harking back to the Brighton bombing and his disgusting past involvement with the IRA.
Tories are completely blindsided by Corbyn’s past. The electorate don't care. 40 percent voted Labour . If they could only forget about it for a minute they might stand a chance of dealing with him effectively.
That’s not quite right. A large part of the electorate clearly does care a lot. But the part that doesn’t might be big enough to get Labour into power.
The Conservatives need to show how Jeremy Corbyn’s past is a problem for policy in the present for those not so far convinced.
Corbyn has sound views on foreign policy, e.g. regarding the criminal Saudi regime. He is also less hostile to Russia and Iran, and more sympathetic to Irish nationalism.
"Nimby councils" in England that fail to build enough new homes could be stripped of planning powers, Housing Secretary Sajid Javid has warned.
Mr Javid told the Sunday Times he would be "breathing down" the necks of local authorities to ensure targets are met.
I do hope Mr Javid hasn't been opposing developments in his own backyard.
He won’t be the first minister to threaten local authorities with serious planning reform if they don’t start building. Housing is the biggest single domestic policy issue at the moment.
I find it somewhat ironic that those who support the highest levels of immigration also support the lowest levels of housebuilding in their own backyard - yet are simultaneously mad at the government that their offspring can’t afford to buy in Zone 2 before they turn 25.
The government needs to be encouraging emigration, particularly of those who don't fit in with British core values, as a way of reducing the housing crisis. One way would be restrictions on practices that alien groups regard as a fundamental part of their beliefs, but can be deemed as cruel or contrary to human or animal rights.
The best argument against Adonis would be to make Brexit a success. Not much sign of that at the moment.
What the EU are absolutely shit-scared of happening, is that Brexit is a success. It would completely destroy their project. It’s why they’re so keen on stopping us making trade deals and allowing regulatory divergence while still preserving the benefits of membership.
Thinking more about the tariffs, I've decided there are two possible explanations for why he did the tariffs the way he did:
1. Cock up. It's a tweet that he's forced to make policy of. 2. Conspiracy. He wants to make it perfectly clear that he doesn't think the US is (or should be) bound by historic treaty commitments*.
I genuinely don't know which one it is. I'm tempted by 1, but fear the answer is more likely 2.
* Of course, if it's 2, then it's a bit rich that he's also complaining that Germany isn't spending 2% of GDP on defence.
A bit of both, but mostly frustration, I think. Trump was elected on a platform of kicking ass, so America has American steel and American cars. People keep telling you can't do this, it's unwise to do that and he's fed up with it.
Kicking ass is a powerful motivator in US politics. It was the main driver behind the Iraq war at a cost of 6 trillion dollars and countless lives, as well US world influence
"Nimby councils" in England that fail to build enough new homes could be stripped of planning powers, Housing Secretary Sajid Javid has warned.
Mr Javid told the Sunday Times he would be "breathing down" the necks of local authorities to ensure targets are met.
I do hope Mr Javid hasn't been opposing developments in his own backyard.
He won’t be the first minister to threaten local authorities with serious planning reform if they don’t start building. Housing is the biggest single domestic policy issue at the moment.
I find it somewhat ironic that those who support the highest levels of immigration also support the lowest levels of housebuilding in their own backyard - yet are simultaneously mad at the government that their offspring can’t afford to buy in Zone 2 before they turn 25.
The government needs to be encouraging emigration, particularly of those who don't fit in with British core values
I think that once the Brexit stuff goes a little quieter we'll see more on the JAMs, it is something that the PM genuinely cares about.
Her conference speech that certain metropolitan Remain supporters took to be about themselves, was actually about the Googles and Facebooks, the Richard Bransons and Philip Greens who make a lot of money in the UK and pay very little in taxes on it. Mrs May wants to be able to cut taxes for the average man in the street before the next election.
I'm going to guess we'll see something on this in the forthcoming Spring Statement from the Chancellor.
"once the Brexit stuff goes a little quieter"
I see the problem.
"Her conference speech that certain metropolitan Remain supporters took to be about themselves, was actually about ..."
And that highlights another problem perfectly. If you're having to interpret such a speech, to tell people what it really means, and you're on the side of the speech-giver, then it's a failure.
Besides, it can't be done in one speech. It has to be done consistently over time, so the message seeps through and enough of the public start believing that you believe it. Keep on bashing the message, and get your team to do the same.
I'm also fearful that 'cutting taxes for the average man in the street' is not a vote-winner. The other side of that is 'reducing public services', and they've already suffered big hits, and those hits are often very unpopular. It's time for austerity to end.
If I were the Conservatives, I might be tempted to go for slight tax increases with the message: "The public services have been hit. We'll tax the rich / big organisations more highly, but we will spend it more wisely than Labour." Try to offset those tax rises with other measures to counteract negative effects. But it's the message, the vision, that matters.
Then again, that's my sort of wish, so I'm biased.
The best argument against Adonis would be to make Brexit a success. Not much sign of that at the moment.
What the EU are absolutely shit-scared of happening, is that Brexit is a success. It would completely destroy their project. It’s why they’re so keen on stopping us making trade deals and allowing regulatory divergence.
I very much doubt the EU are scared that Brexit will be a success. A project secured through xenophobic lies leaving the country split down the middle and run by incompetent clowns has only the remotest prospects of success.
Corbyns appeal is primarily to that part of the educated left who dislike Britain who Orwell once identified and since his day has been enlarged by ethnic immigrants and pop culture.However good a campaigner he is still vulnerable to a smart Tory campaign that appeals to the `patriotic vote` One never knows quite how good or not someone will be as a party leader in an election until after the event but Estey Mcvey as a former TV presenter has scope as does Johnnie Mercer` Ruth Davidson may be over hyped.No guarantee she would appeal to middle England.She might put them off
As a ‘lefty’ I really, really take offence at the suggestion that I am in some way ‘unpatriotic’ because I’m on the left.
I’m proud of our history...... well sone of it ...... and I delight in our countryside, and some at least of our traditions.
And I’m always there for at least one of the British teams in sporting encounters.
I'm closer to Metatron's caricature - I don't care if we win ANY Olympic medals, I feel broadly neutral when I hear the National Anthem. But I don't dislike Britain either, it feels like home, and of course I hope we're happy and successful (but I hope the same for anywhere else).
In general it's a mistake to to generalise about people who don't currently vote for you - it's like Remainers caricaturing Leavers as being thick. Metatron's core vote - ostentatiously patriotic, wary of pop culure and immigrants, dubious even about Tories who are gay - is already solidly Tory. In order to win an election, the Tories need to keep a channel of communication with the rest of us.
I appreciate your honesty Mr Palmer. At the same time, I think the public would be rather surprised to hear that a former MP feels the need to say he ‘doesn’t dislike’ the country he’s legislated for.
I have no issue with people standing for election who don’t have particularly strong feelings about the ward, constituency or country they wish to represent. I have a very big problem with powerful unelected civil servants (like Gus O’Donell) who feel no special duty to put the interests of the people who pay their wages first.
Dear Mr. Barnier, it is increasingly likely that Brexit has driven Lord Adonis quite bonkers. He has no democratic manadate for his position, and is unlikely to renounce his peerage to ever try for one. Instead, he just wants to steam-roller over the pledge of political parties to implement Brexit, as voted for by 86% plus of the electorate in 2017.
Tories are completely blindsided by Corbyn’s past. The electorate don't care. 40 percent voted Labour . If they could only forget about it for a minute they might stand a chance of dealing with him effectively.
That’s not quite right. A large part of the electorate clearly does care a lot. But the part that doesn’t might be big enough to get Labour into power.
The Conservatives need to show how Jeremy Corbyn’s past is a problem for policy in the present for those not so far convinced.
They would do a lot better if they forgot about it entirely .
There’s a large chunk of the electorate who are super-motivated by such stories. They need to keep up the terror for them. I get that you, and many others, don’t care, but many do. The electorate is not one monolithic bloc. Different bits need to be reached in different ways.
But they would do far better explaining how Jeremy Corbyn’s past would lead to chaos in Northern Ireland now were he to come to power, rather than just harking back to the Brighton bombing and his disgusting past involvement with the IRA.
I think your wrong. Going on about Corbyn's past is the same as going on about Cameron being a toff.
The people who obsess about Corbyn's past vote strongly Tory anyway. They're not going to switch to Labour. We have no idea how many there are, but it's almost certainly not the full Tory vote. People who cared that Cameron was posh, or liked pigs romantically were never going to vote for him.
The best argument against Adonis would be to make Brexit a success. Not much sign of that at the moment.
What the EU are absolutely shit-scared of happening, is that Brexit is a success. It would completely destroy their project. It’s why they’re so keen on stopping us making trade deals and allowing regulatory divergence.
The EU is worried about divergence. We should be worried more. Divergence allows you to act against the interests of the other party. If we did our own thing that the EU doesn't like, it's not hard to imagine the sanctions it would apply. If the EU does something that excludes us, there's not a lot we can do about it.
The Level Playing Field protects the weaker party because the same rules must apply to everyone.
The best argument against Adonis would be to make Brexit a success. Not much sign of that at the moment.
What the EU are absolutely shit-scared of happening, is that Brexit is a success. It would completely destroy their project. It’s why they’re so keen on stopping us making trade deals and allowing regulatory divergence.
I very much doubt the EU are scared that Brexit will be a success. A project secured through xenophobic lies leaving the country split down the middle and run by incompetent clowns has only the remotest prospects of success.
Alastair, you are much better and much more intelligent than your constant repetition of that phrase.
Not all of us who voted to leave are little Farages.
Corbyns appeal is primarily to that part of the educated left who dislike Britain who Orwell once identified and since his day has been enlarged by ethnic immigrants and pop culture.However good a campaigner he is still vulnerable to a smart Tory campaign that appeals to the `patriotic vote` One never knows quite how good or not someone will be as a party leader in an election until after the event but Estey Mcvey as a former TV presenter has scope as does Johnnie Mercer` Ruth Davidson may be over hyped.No guarantee she would appeal to middle England.She might put them off
The quicker she gets there the better, pity for somewhere in England being lumbered with a self seeking windbag but great for Scotland.
Tories are completely blindsided by Corbyn’s past. The electorate don't care. 40 percent voted Labour . If they could only forget about it for a minute they might stand a chance of dealing with him effectively.
That’s not quite right. A large part of the electorate clearly does care a lot. But the part that doesn’t might be big enough to get Labour into power.
The Conservatives need to show how Jeremy Corbyn’s past is a problem for policy in the present for those not so far convinced.
They would do a lot better if they forgot about it entirely .
There’s a large chunk of the electorate who are super-motivated by such stories. They need to keep up the terror for them. I get that you, and many others, don’t care, but many do. The electorate is not one monolithic bloc. Different bits need to be reached in different ways.
But they would do far better explaining how Jeremy Corbyn’s past would lead to chaos in Northern Ireland now were he to come to power, rather than just harking back to the Brighton bombing and his disgusting past involvement with the IRA.
I think your wrong. Going on about Corbyn's past is the same as going on about Cameron being a toff.
The people who obsess about Corbyn's past vote strongly Tory anyway. They're not going to switch to Labour. We have no idea how many there are, but it's almost certainly not the full Tory vote. People who cared that Cameron was posh, or liked pigs romantically were never going to vote for him.
Which is why Jeremy Corbyn’s past has to be related to present policy problems. Given his appalling choices in the past, that shouldn’t be difficult.
Mr. 43, did it protect us when the French banned British beef? Has it led to German car manufacturers getting exemplary fines for faking emissions results? Did it mean that the single market in services was completed, which would benefit us, or only that in goods?
The problem, well, one of them, is that the EU paid lip service to its own rules. Even for single currency entry. We, however, tend to actually follow them.
I appreciate your honesty Mr Palmer. At the same time, I think the public would be rather surprised to hear that a former MP feels the need to say he ‘doesn’t dislike’ the country he’s legislated for.
I have no issue with people standing for election who don’t have particularly strong feelings about the ward, constituency or country they wish to represent. I have a very big problem with powerful unelected civil servants (like Gus O’Donell) who feel no special duty to put the interests of the people who pay their wages first.
They seemed OK with it (I do like Britain, by the way - my "don't dislike" was just disagreeing with Metatron saying tha lefties all dislike it). I told them I was a former Communist who'd lived most of my life abroad, but I'd do my best for the constituency and the community, and I worked pretty hard trying to do that. They seemed to feel that was a reasonable deal for a backbench MP: being straightforward with people can take you a long way in defusing things that would be embarassing if revealed by accident.
The best argument against Adonis would be to make Brexit a success. Not much sign of that at the moment.
What the EU are absolutely shit-scared of happening, is that Brexit is a success. It would completely destroy their project. It’s why they’re so keen on stopping us making trade deals and allowing regulatory divergence.
I very much doubt the EU are scared that Brexit will be a success. A project secured through xenophobic lies leaving the country split down the middle and run by incompetent clowns has only the remotest prospects of success.
Alastair, you are much better and much more intelligent than your constant repetition of that phrase.
Not all of us who voted to leave are little Farages.
The proponents of Leave were entirely happy to march behind xenophobic lies. None has regretted that, none has admitted that. The country will remain divided until they do and they start thinking about how to put their past actions right. All the while that the point goes unaddressed, the divisions deepen.
The best argument against Adonis would be to make Brexit a success. Not much sign of that at the moment.
What the EU are absolutely shit-scared of happening, is that Brexit is a success. It would completely destroy their project. It’s why they’re so keen on stopping us making trade deals and allowing regulatory divergence.
The EU is worried about divergence. We should be worried more. Divergence allows you to act against the interests of the other party. If we did our own thing that the EU doesn't like, it's not hard to imagine the sanctions it would apply. If the EU does something that excludes us, there's not a lot we can do about it.
The Level Playing Field protects the weaker party because the same rules must apply to everyone.
And so there are two takeaways. Firstly the EU wants a deal with the UK. That gives us a degree of bargaining power. Secondly the deal will allow little room on regulatory divergence, because that's what the EU and the EU27 care most about. Which is probably OK. I doubt many Leavers care about tariffs, product regulation and financial instruments.
I appreciate your honesty Mr Palmer. At the same time, I think the public would be rather surprised to hear that a former MP feels the need to say he ‘doesn’t dislike’ the country he’s legislated for.
I have no issue with people standing for election who don’t have particularly strong feelings about the ward, constituency or country they wish to represent. I have a very big problem with powerful unelected civil servants (like Gus O’Donell) who feel no special duty to put the interests of the people who pay their wages first.
They seemed OK with it (I do like Britain, by the way - my "don't dislike" was just disagreeing with Metatron saying tha lefties all dislike it). I told them I was a former Communist who'd lived most of my life abroad, but I'd do my best for the constituency and the community, and I worked pretty hard trying to do that. They seemed to feel that was a reasonable deal for a backbench MP: being straightforward with people can take you a long way in defusing things that would be embarassing if revealed by accident.
We need more MPs with your attitude, rather than slimeballs like Bercow who just parrot whatever their current audience wants to hear.
And here I am in what is obviously a parallel world where the eu is prosecuting the czechs, poles and hungarians for being so explicitly and odiously racist that even the French have noticed, and we are are due a Forza/Lega coalition, elected on a mass deportation ticket, before the last snowman has melted. What a hellhole the UK is.
Tories are completely blindsided by Corbyn’s past. The electorate don't care. 40 percent voted Labour . If they could only forget about it for a minute they might stand a chance of dealing with him effectively.
That’s not quite right. A large part of the electorate clearly does care a lot. But the part that doesn’t might be big enough to get Labour into power.
The Conservatives need to show how Jeremy Corbyn’s past is a problem for policy in the present for those not so far convinced.
They would do a lot better if they forgot about it entirely .
There’s a large chunk of the electorate who are super-motivated by such stories. They need to keep up the terror for them. I get that you, and many others, don’t care, but many do. The electorate is not one monolithic bloc. Different bits need to be reached in different ways.
But they would do far better explaining how Jeremy Corbyn’s past would lead to chaos in Northern Ireland now were he to come to power, rather than just harking back to the Brighton bombing and his disgusting past involvement with the IRA.
I think your wrong. Going on about Corbyn's past is the same as going on about Cameron being a toff.
The people who obsess about Corbyn's past vote strongly Tory anyway. They're not going to switch to Labour. We have no idea how many there are, but it's almost certainly not the full Tory vote. People who cared that Cameron was posh, or liked pigs romantically were never going to vote for him.
Which is why Jeremy Corbyn’s past has to be related to present policy problems. Given his appalling choices in the past, that shouldn’t be difficult.
Still think your wrong. It weakens the political attack, because it can be dismissed as yet another attack on Corbyn’s past. When Labour said 'toff' they immediately lost the argument.
Mr. Meeks, British politicians, including Cameron, had long supported Turkey joining the EU. That was no lie. Nor was Turkey being in the process of joining it.
I imagine you'd be displeased to be described as a traitor. Things will only cool down when slurs stop flying in both directions.
Mr. Z, the Italian result could be rather interesting. Got a small bet on Five Star getting most seats.
I appreciate your honesty Mr Palmer. At the same time, I think the public would be rather surprised to hear that a former MP feels the need to say he ‘doesn’t dislike’ the country he’s legislated for.
I have no issue with people standing for election who don’t have particularly strong feelings about the ward, constituency or country they wish to represent. I have a very big problem with powerful unelected civil servants (like Gus O’Donell) who feel no special duty to put the interests of the people who pay their wages first.
They seemed OK with it (I do like Britain, by the way - my "don't dislike" was just disagreeing with Metatron saying tha lefties all dislike it). I told them I was a former Communist who'd lived most of my life abroad, but I'd do my best for the constituency and the community, and I worked pretty hard trying to do that. They seemed to feel that was a reasonable deal for a backbench MP: being straightforward with people can take you a long way in defusing things that would be embarassing if revealed by accident.
I can and will disagree with you on a whole range of political issues, but honesty and politeness go a long way and are sadly disappearing from modern politics. As is a sense of public service, replaced with professionalism and political aspiration.
Tories are completely blindsided by Corbyn’s past. The electorate don't care. 40 percent voted Labour . If they could only forget about it for a minute they might stand a chance of dealing with him effectively.
That’s not quite right. A large part of the electorate clearly does care a lot. But the part that doesn’t might be big enough to get Labour into power.
The Conservatives need to show how Jeremy Corbyn’s past is a problem for policy in the present for those not so far convinced.
They would do a lot better if they forgot about it entirely .
There’s a large chunk of the electorate who are super-motivated by such stories. They need to keep up the terror for them. I get that you, and many others, don’t care, but many do. The electorate is not one monolithic bloc. Different bits need to be reached in different ways.
But they would do far better explaining how Jeremy Corbyn’s past would lead to chaos in Northern Ireland now were he to come to power, rather than just harking back to the Brighton bombing and his disgusting past involvement with the IRA.
I think your wrong. Going on about Corbyn's past is the same as going on about Cameron being a toff.
The people who obsess about Corbyn's past vote strongly Tory anyway. They're not going to switch to Labour. We have no idea how many there are, but it's almost certainly not the full Tory vote. People who cared that Cameron was posh, or liked pigs romantically were never going to vote for him.
Which is why Jeremy Corbyn’s past has to be related to present policy problems. Given his appalling choices in the past, that shouldn’t be difficult.
Still think your wrong. It weakens the political attack, because it can be dismissed as yet another attack on Corbyn’s past. When Labour said 'toff' they immediately lost the argument.
Agreed. I felt insulted by the 'Cameron is a toff' line.
Mr. Meeks, British politicians, including Cameron, had long supported Turkey joining the EU. That was no lie. Nor was Turkey being in the process of joining it.
I imagine you'd be displeased to be described as a traitor. Things will only cool down when slurs stop flying in both directions.
Mr. Z, the Italian result could be rather interesting. Got a small bet on Five Star getting most seats.
Leave want Brexit to be a success. They need to start thinking how they’re going to create the necessary conditions for that to be possible. Because right now they’re doubling down on the xenophobic lies, doubling down on cementing the divisions and putting next to no energy into identifying what a good Brexit looks like.
The best argument against Adonis would be to make Brexit a success. Not much sign of that at the moment.
What the EU are absolutely shit-scared of happening, is that Brexit is a success. It would completely destroy their project. It’s why they’re so keen on stopping us making trade deals and allowing regulatory divergence.
I very much doubt the EU are scared that Brexit will be a success. A project secured through xenophobic lies leaving the country split down the middle and run by incompetent clowns has only the remotest prospects of success.
Alastair, you are much better and much more intelligent than your constant repetition of that phrase.
Not all of us who voted to leave are little Farages.
The proponents of Leave were entirely happy to march behind xenophobic lies. None has regretted that, none has admitted that. The country will remain divided until they do and they start thinking about how to put their past actions right. All the while that the point goes unaddressed, the divisions deepen.
I don't care, we had to do whatever it took to win. Simple as that. The government spent £10m on its bogus remain leaflet, after that the environment changed and the gloves came off. You can't accept that your side lost to a motley crew of perennial losers, idiots and a sprinkling of star dust because the product you were selling was and is a pile of shit, no matter how you dress it up. Even now, after the relentless anti Brexit environment created by the media the public are still essentially as they were.
You can be as bitter as you like about posters from Turkey and £350m buses. You lost to that because every argument your side made was contradictory. It was "the EU isn't great, but" because the argument of "the EU is great" would have got your lot about 12% of the vote. Until you realise you lost because the product you were, and in some cases still are selling is completely unattractive to well over half the British public then you're doomed to failure. Most remainers I know still see the EU as the least worst option, it's not a positive choice. Leave was and still is the positive choice.
Mr. Meeks, British politicians, including Cameron, had long supported Turkey joining the EU. That was no lie. Nor was Turkey being in the process of joining it.
I imagine you'd be displeased to be described as a traitor. Things will only cool down when slurs stop flying in both directions.
Mr. Z, the Italian result could be rather interesting. Got a small bet on Five Star getting most seats.
Leave want Brexit to be a success. They need to start thinking how they’re going to create the necessary conditions for that to be possible. Because right now they’re doubling down on the xenophobic lies, doubling down on cementing the divisions and putting next to no energy into identifying what a good Brexit looks like.
You are absolutely possessed with your 'xenophobic lies' comments when in truth a very small number of people expressed such views. Wanting to control immigration to the UK to suit our economic needs is not xenophobic, wanting to control our borders and money is the expectation that our people have of their elected representatives
Mr. 43, did it protect us when the French banned British beef? Has it led to German car manufacturers getting exemplary fines for faking emissions results? Did it mean that the single market in services was completed, which would benefit us, or only that in goods?
The problem, well, one of them, is that the EU paid lip service to its own rules. Even for single currency entry. We, however, tend to actually follow them.
France resisted for three years the EU's mandatory requirement to lift the ban. All other EU countries acted as required, giving.our desperate farmers a lifeline. France is now a major consumer of British beef. In contrast the USA only lifted its ban last year, twenty years after the outbreak. Do you think the EU will be in any hurry to switch access back on again after the next outbreak, as we will now be non members?
Mr. 43, did it protect us when the French banned British beef? Has it led to German car manufacturers getting exemplary fines for faking emissions results? Did it mean that the single market in services was completed, which would benefit us, or only that in goods?
The problem, well, one of them, is that the EU paid lip service to its own rules. Even for single currency entry. We, however, tend to actually follow them.
France resisted for three years the EU's mandatory requirement to lift the ban. All other EU countries acted as required, giving.our desperate farmers a lifeline. France is now a major consumer of British beef. In contrast the USA only lifted its ban last year, twenty years after the outbreak. Do you think the EU will be in any hurry to switch access back on again after the next outbreak, as we will now be non members?
And fines against German companies for lying and cheating all these years. The EU finds it easy to fine American companies but almost impossible against German ones.
Mr. Meeks, British politicians, including Cameron, had long supported Turkey joining the EU. That was no lie. Nor was Turkey being in the process of joining it.
I imagine you'd be displeased to be described as a traitor. Things will only cool down when slurs stop flying in both directions.
Mr. Z, the Italian result could be rather interesting. Got a small bet on Five Star getting most seats.
Leave want Brexit to be a success. They need to start thinking how they’re going to create the necessary conditions for that to be possible. Because right now they’re doubling down on the xenophobic lies, doubling down on cementing the divisions and putting next to no energy into identifying what a good Brexit looks like.
You are absolutely possessed with your 'xenophobic lies' comments when in truth a very small number of people expressed such views. Wanting to control immigration to the UK to suit our economic needs is not xenophobic, wanting to control our borders and money is the expectation that our people have of their elected representatives
Both Vote Leave and Leave.EU made xenophobic lies the centrepieces of their campaigns.
Leavers see that as an entirely acceptable price for securing Brexit. They just expect to have their cake (spread xenophobic lies) and eat it (not be accused of spreading xenophobic lies).
The best argument against Adonis would be to make Brexit a success. Not much sign of that at the moment.
What the EU are absolutely shit-scared of happening, is that Brexit is a success. It would completely destroy their project. It’s why they’re so keen on stopping us making trade deals and allowing regulatory divergence.
I very much doubt the EU are scared that Brexit will be a success. A project secured through xenophobic lies leaving the country split down the middle and run by incompetent clowns has only the remotest prospects of success.
Mr. Meeks, British politicians, including Cameron, had long supported Turkey joining the EU. That was no lie. Nor was Turkey being in the process of joining it.
I imagine you'd be displeased to be described as a traitor. Things will only cool down when slurs stop flying in both directions.
Mr. Z, the Italian result could be rather interesting. Got a small bet on Five Star getting most seats.
Leave want Brexit to be a success. They need to start thinking how they’re going to create the necessary conditions for that to be possible. Because right now they’re doubling down on the xenophobic lies, doubling down on cementing the divisions and putting next to no energy into identifying what a good Brexit looks like.
You are absolutely possessed with your 'xenophobic lies' comments when in truth a very small number of people expressed such views. Wanting to control immigration to the UK to suit our economic needs is not xenophobic, wanting to control our borders and money is the expectation that our people have of their elected representatives
There is a xenophobic dimension to Brexit. It isn't discussed much, but it definitely exists, lurking not far under the surface. You see it every time people suggest we have more in common with NZ, Aus and Canada. It would be good to see it tackled directly by the government. Brexit would be better off if it were.
Mr. Meeks, British politicians, including Cameron, had long supported Turkey joining the EU. That was no lie. Nor was Turkey being in the process of joining it.
I imagine you'd be displeased to be described as a traitor. Things will only cool down when slurs stop flying in both directions.
Mr. Z, the Italian result could be rather interesting. Got a small bet on Five Star getting most seats.
Leave want Brexit to be a success. They need to start thinking how they’re going to create the necessary conditions for that to be possible. Because right now they’re doubling down on the xenophobic lies, doubling down on cementing the divisions and putting next to no energy into identifying what a good Brexit looks like.
You are absolutely possessed with your 'xenophobic lies' comments when in truth a very small number of people expressed such views. Wanting to control immigration to the UK to suit our economic needs is not xenophobic, wanting to control our borders and money is the expectation that our people have of their elected representatives
Both Vote Leave and Leave.EU made xenophobic lies the centrepieces of their campaigns.
Leavers see that as an entirely acceptable price for securing Brexit. They just expect to have their cake (spread xenophobic lies) and eat it (not be accused of spreading xenophobic lies).
It seems you use this silly argument as your comfort blanket to the fact remain lost
Mr. Meeks, British politicians, including Cameron, had long supported Turkey joining the EU. That was no lie. Nor was Turkey being in the process of joining it.
I imagine you'd be displeased to be described as a traitor. Things will only cool down when slurs stop flying in both directions.
Mr. Z, the Italian result could be rather interesting. Got a small bet on Five Star getting most seats.
Leave want Brexit to be a success.
Are you sure? For many of them what they really want is for the EU to be a failure.
Mr. Meeks, British politicians, including Cameron, had long supported Turkey joining the EU. That was no lie. Nor was Turkey being in the process of joining it.
I imagine you'd be displeased to be described as a traitor. Things will only cool down when slurs stop flying in both directions.
Mr. Z, the Italian result could be rather interesting. Got a small bet on Five Star getting most seats.
Leave want Brexit to be a success. They need to start thinking how they’re going to create the necessary conditions for that to be possible. Because right now they’re doubling down on the xenophobic lies, doubling down on cementing the divisions and putting next to no energy into identifying what a good Brexit looks like.
You are absolutely possessed with your 'xenophobic lies' comments when in truth a very small number of people expressed such views. Wanting to control immigration to the UK to suit our economic needs is not xenophobic, wanting to control our borders and money is the expectation that our people have of their elected representatives
There is a xenophobic dimension to Brexit. It isn't discussed much, but it definitely exists, lurking not far under the surface. You see it every time people suggest we have more in common with NZ, Aus and Canada. It would be good to see it tackled directly by the government. Brexit would be better off if it were.
I consider I have close ties to New Zealand and Canada not least because my eldest son emigrated to New Zealand 14 years ago and has since married a Canadian and lives in Canada but to consider that attitude is xenophobic is offensive
The Meekoid is yet again showing that he is a hypocrite, denier and a z-rated troll. Both sides in this debate are coalitions and we have to accept compromises.
Junior and myself have advocated open-borders, with benefit reforms, but also accept that both sides of this debate oppose this for puritanical purposes. Post-Brexit Eu citizens will have to meet the same qualifications as UK subjects: Why he thinks they should not be conformant to English-Law puzzles me.
Mr. Meeks, British politicians, including Cameron, had long supported Turkey joining the EU. That was no lie. Nor was Turkey being in the process of joining it.
I imagine you'd be displeased to be described as a traitor. Things will only cool down when slurs stop flying in both directions.
Mr. Z, the Italian result could be rather interesting. Got a small bet on Five Star getting most seats.
Leave want Brexit to be a success. They need to start thinking how they’re going to create the necessary conditions for that to be possible. Because right now they’re doubling down on the xenophobic lies, doubling down on cementing the divisions and putting next to no energy into identifying what a good Brexit looks like.
You are absolutely possessed with your 'xenophobic lies' comments when in truth a very small number of people expressed such views. Wanting to control immigration to the UK to suit our economic needs is not xenophobic, wanting to control our borders and money is the expectation that our people have of their elected representatives
There is a xenophobic dimension to Brexit. It isn't discussed much, but it definitely exists, lurking not far under the surface. You see it every time people suggest we have more in common with NZ, Aus and Canada. It would be good to see it tackled directly by the government. Brexit would be better off if it were.
I consider I have close ties to New Zealand and Canada not least because my eldest son emigrated to New Zealand 14 years ago and has since married a Canadian and lives in Canada but to consider that attitude is xenophobic is offensive
So you understand why Brexit, especially talk of hard borders and immigrants, is upsetting to people with family and friends in Europe.
Mr. 43, did it protect us when the French banned British beef? Has it led to German car manufacturers getting exemplary fines for faking emissions results? Did it mean that the single market in services was completed, which would benefit us, or only that in goods?
The problem, well, one of them, is that the EU paid lip service to its own rules. Even for single currency entry. We, however, tend to actually follow them.
France resisted for three years the EU's mandatory requirement to lift the ban. All other EU countries acted as required, giving.our desperate farmers a lifeline. France is now a major consumer of British beef. In contrast the USA only lifted its ban last year, twenty years after the outbreak. Do you think the EU will be in any hurry to switch access back on again after the next outbreak, as we will now be non members?
And fines against German companies for lying and cheating all these years. The EU finds it easy to fine American companies but almost impossible against German ones.
Well as outsiders we will now get the American treatment. Better make sure those treaties are watertight and don't allow TOO much divergence.
Mr. Meeks, British politicians, including Cameron, had long supported Turkey joining the EU. That was no lie. Nor was Turkey being in the process of joining it.
I imagine you'd be displeased to be described as a traitor. Things will only cool down when slurs stop flying in both directions.
Mr. Z, the Italian result could be rather interesting. Got a small bet on Five Star getting most seats.
Leave want Brexit to be a success. They need to start thinking how they’re going to create the necessary conditions for that to be possible. Because right now they’re doubling down on the xenophobic lies, doubling down on cementing the divisions and putting next to no energy into identifying what a good Brexit looks like.
You are absolutely possessed with your 'xenophobic lies' comments when in truth a very small number of people expressed such views. Wanting to control immigration to the UK to suit our economic needs is not xenophobic, wanting to control our borders and money is the expectation that our people have of their elected representatives
There is a xenophobic dimension to Brexit. It isn't discussed much, but it definitely exists, lurking not far under the surface. You see it every time people suggest we have more in common with NZ, Aus and Canada. It would be good to see it tackled directly by the government. Brexit would be better off if it were.
I consider I have close ties to New Zealand and Canada not least because my eldest son emigrated to New Zealand 14 years ago and has since married a Canadian and lives in Canada but to consider that attitude is xenophobic is offensive
So you understand why Brexit, especially talk of hard borders and immigrants, is upsetting to people with family and friends in Europe.
Of course but attacking our closeness to Australia, New Zealand and Canada as xenophobic remains offensive
Mr. Meeks, British politicians, including Cameron, had long supported Turkey joining the EU. That was no lie. Nor was Turkey being in the process of joining it.
I imagine you'd be displeased to be described as a traitor. Things will only cool down when slurs stop flying in both directions.
Mr. Z, the Italian result could be rather interesting. Got a small bet on Five Star getting most seats.
Leave want Brexit to be a success. They need to start thinking how they’re going to create the necessary conditions for that to be possible. Because right now they’re doubling down on the xenophobic lies, doubling down on cementing the divisions and putting next to no energy into identifying what a good Brexit looks like.
You are absolutely possessed with your 'xenophobic lies' comments when in truth a very small number of people expressed such views. Wanting to control immigration to the UK to suit our economic needs is not xenophobic, wanting to control our borders and money is the expectation that our people have of their elected representatives
There is a xenophobic dimension to Brexit. It isn't discussed much, but it definitely exists, lurking not far under the surface. You see it every time people suggest we have more in common with NZ, Aus and Canada. It would be good to see it tackled directly by the government. Brexit would be better off if it were.
I consider I have close ties to New Zealand and Canada not least because my eldest son emigrated to New Zealand 14 years ago and has since married a Canadian and lives in Canada but to consider that attitude is xenophobic is offensive
So you understand why Brexit, especially talk of hard borders and immigrants, is upsetting to people with family and friends in Europe.
Of course but attacking our closeness to Australia, New Zealand and Canada as xenophobic remains offensive
Mr. 43, did it protect us when the French banned British beef? Has it led to German car manufacturers getting exemplary fines for faking emissions results? Did it mean that the single market in services was completed, which would benefit us, or only that in goods?
The problem, well, one of them, is that the EU paid lip service to its own rules. Even for single currency entry. We, however, tend to actually follow them.
France resisted for three years the EU's mandatory requirement to lift the ban. All other EU countries acted as required, giving.our desperate farmers a lifeline. France is now a major consumer of British beef. In contrast the USA only lifted its ban last year, twenty years after the outbreak. Do you think the EU will be in any hurry to switch access back on again after the next outbreak, as we will now be non members?
And fines against German companies for lying and cheating all these years. The EU finds it easy to fine American companies but almost impossible against German ones.
Well as outsiders we will now get the American treatment. Better make sure those treaties are watertight and don't allow TOO much divergence.
BTW steel tariffs are just because Trump didn’t like losing the Bombardier case. That’s why Canada has been targeted. It’s not about steel - it’s about winning.
BTW steel tariffs are just because Trump didn’t like losing the Bombardier case. That’s why Canada has been targeted. It’s not about steel - it’s about winning.
And that's worrying. People who can't handle not winning are dangerous .
BTW steel tariffs are just because Trump didn’t like losing the Bombardier case. That’s why Canada has been targeted. It’s not about steel - it’s about winning.
Very good point - hadn't thought about that but it makes sense
BTW steel tariffs are just because Trump didn’t like losing the Bombardier case. That’s why Canada has been targeted. It’s not about steel - it’s about winning.
And that's worrying. People who can't handle not winning are dangerous .
Indeed. They’re currently referred to as Remoaners...
BTW steel tariffs are just because Trump didn’t like losing the Bombardier case. That’s why Canada has been targeted. It’s not about steel - it’s about winning.
Interestingly the Canucks have invited Boeing back into their fighter replacement programme. Not sure if the F18E will still be production when they make their decision though.
BTW steel tariffs are just because Trump didn’t like losing the Bombardier case. That’s why Canada has been targeted. It’s not about steel - it’s about winning.
And that's worrying. People who can't handle not winning are dangerous .
Indeed. They’re currently referred to as Remoaners...
Weren't you bleating on about politeness disappearing from modern politics just a few posts ago?
Brexit, Trump aggressive trade war with the EU, Italy about to elect far right government, Poland and Hungary at war with the EU - absolutely nothing to worry about, that colossus Juncker will sort it
Thinking more about the tariffs, I've decided there are two possible explanations for why he did the tariffs the way he did:
1. Cock up. It's a tweet that he's forced to make policy of. 2. Conspiracy. He wants to make it perfectly clear that he doesn't think the US is (or should be) bound by historic treaty commitments*.
I genuinely don't know which one it is. I'm tempted by 1, but fear the answer is more likely 2.
* Of course, if it's 2, then it's a bit rich that he's also complaining that Germany isn't spending 2% of GDP on defence.
Mr. Meeks, British politicians, including Cameron, had long supported Turkey joining the EU. That was no lie. Nor was Turkey being in the process of joining it.
I imagine you'd be displeased to be described as a traitor. Things will only cool down when slurs stop flying in both directions.
Mr. Z, the Italian result could be rather interesting. Got a small bet on Five Star getting most seats.
Leave want Brexit to be a success. They need to start thinking how they’re going to create the necessary conditions for that to be possible. Because right now they’re doubling down on the xenophobic lies, doubling down on cementing the divisions and putting next to no energy into identifying what a good Brexit looks like.
You are absolutely possessed with your 'xenophobic lies' comments when in truth a very small number of people expressed such views. Wanting to control immigration to the UK to suit our economic needs is not xenophobic, wanting to control our borders and money is the expectation that our people have of their elected representatives
There is a xenophobic dimension to Brexit. It isn't discussed much, but it definitely exists, lurking not far under the surface. You see it every time people suggest we have more in common with NZ, Aus and Canada. It would be good to see it tackled directly by the government. Brexit would be better off if it were.
I consider I have close ties to New Zealand and Canada not least because my eldest son emigrated to New Zealand 14 years ago and has since married a Canadian and lives in Canada but to consider that attitude is xenophobic is offensive
So you understand why Brexit, especially talk of hard borders and immigrants, is upsetting to people with family and friends in Europe.
Of course but attacking our closeness to Australia, New Zealand and Canada as xenophobic remains offensive
We're closer to France .
Logic fail, surely? If saying "we are closer to x, y or z" is xenophobic, how can "no, we are closer to a" not be? Unless this is an incredibly silly squirrel over the meaning of "closer to." It's like saying "You are a racist, you hate black people;" "No I'm not, I hate Jews."
That was meant to be a reductio ad absurdum, but on second thougfhts it just states the position of the Labour party.
Mr. 43, did it protect us when the French banned British beef? Has it led to German car manufacturers getting exemplary fines for faking emissions results? Did it mean that the single market in services was completed, which would benefit us, or only that in goods?
The problem, well, one of them, is that the EU paid lip service to its own rules. Even for single currency entry. We, however, tend to actually follow them.
France resisted for three years the EU's mandatory requirement to lift the ban. All other EU countries acted as required, giving.our desperate farmers a lifeline. France is now a major consumer of British beef. In contrast the USA only lifted its ban last year, twenty years after the outbreak. Do you think the EU will be in any hurry to switch access back on again after the next outbreak, as we will now be non members?
And fines against German companies for lying and cheating all these years. The EU finds it easy to fine American companies but almost impossible against German ones.
Well as outsiders we will now get the American treatment. Better make sure those treaties are watertight and don't allow TOO much divergence.
Lol, everything is worse outside the EU, clearly.
Actually, yes. No-one wins from Brexit apart from bureaucrats, some lawyers and possibly some pig farmers. We can lose some or we can lose big. The first is better than the second.
BTW steel tariffs are just because Trump didn’t like losing the Bombardier case. That’s why Canada has been targeted. It’s not about steel - it’s about winning.
And that's worrying. People who can't handle not winning are dangerous .
Mr. Meeks, British politicians, including Cameron, had long supported Turkey joining the EU. That was no lie. Nor was Turkey being in the process of joining it.
I imagine you'd be displeased to be described as a traitor. Things will only cool down when slurs stop flying in both directions.
Mr. Z, the Italian result could be rather interesting. Got a small bet on Five Star getting most seats.
Leave want Brexit to be a success. They need to start thinking how they’re going to create the necessary conditions for that to be possible. Because right now they’re doubling down on the xenophobic lies, doubling down on cementing the divisions and putting next to no energy into identifying what a good Brexit looks like.
You are absolutely possessed with your 'xenophobic lies' comments when in truth a very small number of people expressed such views. Wanting to control immigration to the UK to suit our economic needs is not xenophobic, wanting to control our borders and money is the expectation that our people have of their elected representatives
There is a xenophobic dimension to Brexit. It isn't discussed much, but it definitely exists, lurking not far under the surface. You see it every time people suggest we have more in common with NZ, Aus and Canada. It would be good to see it tackled directly by the government. Brexit would be better off if it were.
I consider I have close ties to New Zealand and Canada not least because my eldest son emigrated to New Zealand 14 years ago and has since married a Canadian and lives in Canada but to consider that attitude is xenophobic is offensive
So you understand why Brexit, especially talk of hard borders and immigrants, is upsetting to people with family and friends in Europe.
Of course but attacking our closeness to Australia, New Zealand and Canada as xenophobic remains offensive
We're closer to France .
Logic fail, surely? If saying "we are closer to x, y or z" is xenophobic, how can "no, we are closer to a" not be? Unless this is an incredibly silly squirrel over the meaning of "closer to." It's like saying "You are a racist, you hate black people;" "No I'm not, I hate Jews."
That was meant to be a reductio ad absurdum, but on second thougfhts it just states the position of the Labour party.
Mr. 43, did it protect us when the French banned British beef? Has it led to German car manufacturers getting exemplary fines for faking emissions results? Did it mean that the single market in services was completed, which would benefit us, or only that in goods?
The problem, well, one of them, is that the EU paid lip service to its own rules. Even for single currency entry. We, however, tend to actually follow them.
France resisted for three years the EU's mandatory requirement to lift the ban. All other EU countries acted as required, giving.our desperate farmers a lifeline. France is now a major consumer of British beef. In contrast the USA only lifted its ban last year, twenty years after the outbreak. Do you think the EU will be in any hurry to switch access back on again after the next outbreak, as we will now be non members?
And fines against German companies for lying and cheating all these years. The EU finds it easy to fine American companies but almost impossible against German ones.
Well as outsiders we will now get the American treatment. Better make sure those treaties are watertight and don't allow TOO much divergence.
Lol, everything is worse outside the EU, clearly.
Actually, yes. No-one wins from Brexit apart from bureaucrats, some lawyers and possibly some pig farmers. We can lose some or we can lose big. The first is better than the second.
Lol, it feels like I'm talking to Alastair Campbell.
Mr. Meeks, British politicians, including Cameron, had long supported Turkey joining the EU. That was no lie. Nor was Turkey being in the process of joining it.
I imagine you'd be displeased to be described as a traitor. Things will only cool down when slurs stop flying in both directions.
Mr. Z, the Italian result could be rather interesting. Got a small bet on Five Star getting most seats.
Leave want Brexit to be a success. They need to start thinking how they’re going to create the necessary conditions for that to be possible. Because right now they’re doubling down on the xenophobic lies, doubling down on cementing the divisions and putting next to no energy into identifying what a good Brexit looks like.
You are absolutely possessed with your 'xenophobic lies' comments when in truth a very small number of people expressed such views. Wanting to control immigration to the UK to suit our economic needs is not xenophobic, wanting to control our borders and money is the expectation that our people have of their elected representatives
There is a xenophobic dimension to Brexit. It isn't discussed much, but it definitely exists, lurking not far under the surface. You see it every time people suggest we have more in common with NZ, Aus and Canada. It would be good to see it tackled directly by the government. Brexit would be better off if it were.
I consider I have close ties to New Zealand and Canada not least because my eldest son emigrated to New Zealand 14 years ago and has since married a Canadian and lives in Canada but to consider that attitude is xenophobic is offensive
So you understand why Brexit, especially talk of hard borders and immigrants, is upsetting to people with family and friends in Europe.
Of course but attacking our closeness to Australia, New Zealand and Canada as xenophobic remains offensive
We're closer to France .
Logic fail, surely? If saying "we are closer to x, y or z" is xenophobic, how can "no, we are closer to a" not be? Unless this is an incredibly silly squirrel over the meaning of "closer to." It's like saying "You are a racist, you hate black people;" "No I'm not, I hate Jews."
That was meant to be a reductio ad absurdum, but on second thougfhts it just states the position of the Labour party.
It's 20 miles away .
Perhaps you misunderstood the meaning of "incredibly silly squirrel."
Having just heard Dominic Raab and the head of the CBI being interviewed by the avuncuar John Pienaar the time has come to be petrified. Leaving is going to be a calamity.
If we're looking for pointers to the next election expect a party to have at the centre of its campaign the offer of a new Referendum and expect them to win by a landslide.
Having just heard Dominic Raab and the head of the CBI being interviewed by the avuncuar John Pienaar the time has come to be petrified. Leaving is going to be a calamity.
If we're looking for pointers to the next election expect a party to have at the centre of its campaign the offer of a new Referendum and expect them to win by a landslide.
BTW steel tariffs are just because Trump didn’t like losing the Bombardier case. That’s why Canada has been targeted. It’s not about steel - it’s about winning.
And the loons think that he will be the UK's friend. Bless them.
Mr. Meeks, British politicians, including Cameron, had long supported Turkey joining the EU. That was no lie. Nor was Turkey being in the process of joining it.
I imagine you'd be displeased to be described as a traitor. Things will only cool down when slurs stop flying in both directions.
Mr. Z, the Italian result could be rather interesting. Got a small bet on Five Star getting most seats.
Leave want Brexit to be a success. They need to start thinking how they’re going to create the necessary conditions for that to be possible. Because right now they’re doubling down on the xenophobic lies, doubling down on cementing the divisions and putting next to no energy into identifying what a good Brexit looks like.
You are absolutely possessed with your 'xenophobic lies' comments when in truth a very small number of people expressed such views. Wanting to control immigration to the UK to suit our economic needs is not xenophobic, wanting to control our borders and money is the expectation that our people have of their elected representatives
There is a xenophobic dimension to Brexit. It isn't discussed much, but it definitely exists, lurking not far under the surface. You see it every time people suggest we have more in common with NZ, Aus and Canada. It would be good to see it tackled directly by the government. Brexit would be better off if it were.
I consider I have close ties to New Zealand and Canada not least because my eldest son emigrated to New Zealand 14 years ago and has since married a Canadian and lives in Canada but to consider that attitude is xenophobic is offensive
So you understand why Brexit, especially talk of hard borders and immigrants, is upsetting to people with family and friends in Europe.
Indeed - all the hard border talk from the EU is neither nice nor helpful.
Mr. 43, did it protect us when the French banned British beef? Has it led to German car manufacturers getting exemplary fines for faking emissions results? Did it mean that the single market in services was completed, which would benefit us, or only that in goods?
The problem, well, one of them, is that the EU paid lip service to its own rules. Even for single currency entry. We, however, tend to actually follow them.
France resisted for three years the EU's mandatory requirement to lift the ban. All other EU countries acted as required, giving.our desperate farmers a lifeline. France is now a major consumer of British beef. In contrast the USA only lifted its ban last year, twenty years after the outbreak. Do you think the EU will be in any hurry to switch access back on again after the next outbreak, as we will now be non members?
And fines against German companies for lying and cheating all these years. The EU finds it easy to fine American companies but almost impossible against German ones.
Well as outsiders we will now get the American treatment. Better make sure those treaties are watertight and don't allow TOO much divergence.
Lol, everything is worse outside the EU, clearly.
Actually, yes. No-one wins from Brexit apart from bureaucrats, some lawyers and possibly some pig farmers. We can lose some or we can lose big. The first is better than the second.
Well, at least we can feel cleaner, no longer being in a bloc of countries which almost without exception define xenophobia as "hating Syrians more than necessary."
Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard is facing a challenge to his authority with the creation of a new anti-Brexit campaign group within the party — led by his predecessor Kezia Dugdale.
Scottish Labour for the Single Market will fight for the party to support permanent UK membership of the European Single Market and Customs Union — in contrast with Leonard’s more Eurosceptic tone. The grassroots campaign, aimed at protecting jobs, opposing austerity and defending workers’ rights, is co-chaired by Dugdale, Catherine Stihler MEP and Ian Murray MP.
With the support of members across the country, Scottish Labour can join forces with the trade union movement, Welsh Labour and London mayor Sadiq Khan in persuading Labour to back permanent UK membership of the single market, it claims.
BTW steel tariffs are just because Trump didn’t like losing the Bombardier case. That’s why Canada has been targeted. It’s not about steel - it’s about winning.
And that's worrying. People who can't handle not winning are dangerous .
I see somebody has undone Meeks' strait-jacket straps long enough for him to punch the keyboard some more.....
A couple of days ago you were moaning about a supposedly offensive tweet. How fast time flies.
You reap the abuse you sow.
I do my best not to attack individual posters in personal terms, instead making my points about wider policy points with carefully referenced criticisms of policy positions and political decisions. I don't always succeed but it is my objective, not least because no one has any great interest in the supposed failings of individual posters.
Leavers as a group on here are remarkably hostile to any criticism of Leave positions, taking them very personally and seeing that as a cue to attack anyone making such points in very personal terms. I suppose guilt can provoke that.
Having just heard Dominic Raab and the head of the CBI being interviewed by the avuncuar John Pienaar the time has come to be petrified. Leaving is going to be a calamity.
If we're looking for pointers to the next election expect a party to have at the centre of its campaign the offer of a new Referendum and expect them to win by a landslide.
Yet the Lib Dems are under 10%.
It is a catastrophy waiting to happen. Ignore everything that's happened to date. Judgement day is March 29th 2019 and we face catastrophy.
Oh, the joys of adversarial democracies. Where the largest minority of the largest minority gets winner-take-all and everyone else gets suck-it-up-loser. Where we get the choice of May or Corbyn and nothing else. Joy unconfined.
And, rather unsurprisingly, in an adversarial democracy with the political culture embedded in, the outcome of a massive referendum remains adversarial and divisive.
I see somebody has undone Meeks' strait-jacket straps long enough for him to punch the keyboard some more.....
A couple of days ago you were moaning about a supposedly offensive tweet. How fast time flies.
You reap the abuse you sow.
I do my best not to attack individual posters in personal terms, instead making my points about wider policy points with carefully referenced criticisms of policy positions and political decisions. I don't always succeed but it is my objective, not least because no one has any great interest in the supposed failings of individual posters.
Leavers as a group on here are remarkably hostile to any criticism of Leave positions, taking them very personally and seeing that as a cue to attack anyone making such points in very personal terms. I suppose guilt can provoke that.
As a Remain voter your posts on Brexit sadly do not reflect this.
Constant Phoenix (RC-135W) deployments through Mildenhall aren't routine but they're not unknown either. An RC-135S Cobra Ball transit would be worthy of a raised eyebrow...
Having just heard Dominic Raab and the head of the CBI being interviewed by the avuncuar John Pienaar the time has come to be petrified. Leaving is going to be a calamity.
If we're looking for pointers to the next election expect a party to have at the centre of its campaign the offer of a new Referendum and expect them to win by a landslide.
Nah, it won't be so bad as that. May will cave in to the EU27 on all but a few symbolic issues, such as "the British Sausage". That is what her speech pointed to, and the Brexiteers will have to suck it up.
Having just heard Dominic Raab and the head of the CBI being interviewed by the avuncuar John Pienaar the time has come to be petrified. Leaving is going to be a calamity.
If we're looking for pointers to the next election expect a party to have at the centre of its campaign the offer of a new Referendum and expect them to win by a landslide.
Yet the Lib Dems are under 10%.
It is a catastrophy waiting to happen. Ignore everything that's happened to date. Judgement day is March 29th 2019 and we face catastrophy.
Two (sic) many catastrophes for such a small post. I see project fear is back.
Having just heard Dominic Raab and the head of the CBI being interviewed by the avuncuar John Pienaar the time has come to be petrified. Leaving is going to be a calamity.
If we're looking for pointers to the next election expect a party to have at the centre of its campaign the offer of a new Referendum and expect them to win by a landslide.
Nah, it won't be so bad as that. May will cave in to the EU27 on all but a few symbolic issues, such as "the British Sausage". That is what her speech pointed to, and the Brexiteers will have to suck it up.
Yep - the next few months is really all about finding forms of words and symbolic British "wins". It's clear after May's speech that we are essentially leaving in name only.
Comments
On Trump pronouncing stuff: oddly, that's a bit like Edward III. He'd often announce he was killing people (such as the workmen responsible for a collapsed platform that almost led to his wife's death) but would give in to the entreaties of his wife and friends to spare them. It was a strategem to combine the medieval virtues of harsh justice and royal clemency, and worked very well.
I think it's fair to say Edward III did it slightly better, though...
But they would do far better explaining how Jeremy Corbyn’s past would lead to chaos in Northern Ireland now were he to come to power, rather than just harking back to the Brighton bombing and his disgusting past involvement with the IRA.
2 people who seem to think that the denials of a second referendum mean a referendum is likely....
Kicking ass is a powerful motivator in US politics. It was the main driver behind the Iraq war at a cost of 6 trillion dollars and countless lives, as well US world influence
I have no issue with people standing for election who don’t have particularly strong feelings about the ward, constituency or country they wish to represent. I have a very big problem with powerful unelected civil servants (like Gus O’Donell) who feel no special duty to put the interests of the people who pay their wages first.
Dear oh dear, it has gone up a paltry 140 PTS since the end of the last millennium, but back then sterling bought 1.6 euros and dollars !
All the Brexiteers even Farage are on board.
Hezza trying to invent a bogeyman when it’s his continuity Remain ultras who are the only ones unhappy.
You'll get on great.
The people who obsess about Corbyn's past vote strongly Tory anyway. They're not going to switch to Labour. We have no idea how many there are, but it's almost certainly not the full Tory vote. People who cared that Cameron was posh, or liked pigs romantically were never going to vote for him.
The Level Playing Field protects the weaker party because the same rules must apply to everyone.
Not all of us who voted to leave are little Farages.
The problem, well, one of them, is that the EU paid lip service to its own rules. Even for single currency entry. We, however, tend to actually follow them.
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/970051046319026176
I imagine you'd be displeased to be described as a traitor. Things will only cool down when slurs stop flying in both directions.
Mr. Z, the Italian result could be rather interesting. Got a small bet on Five Star getting most seats.
You can be as bitter as you like about posters from Turkey and £350m buses. You lost to that because every argument your side made was contradictory. It was "the EU isn't great, but" because the argument of "the EU is great" would have got your lot about 12% of the vote. Until you realise you lost because the product you were, and in some cases still are selling is completely unattractive to well over half the British public then you're doomed to failure. Most remainers I know still see the EU as the least worst option, it's not a positive choice. Leave was and still is the positive choice.
Are we discussing Brexit for a change?
Leavers see that as an entirely acceptable price for securing Brexit. They just expect to have their cake (spread xenophobic lies) and eat it (not be accused of spreading xenophobic lies).
Junior and myself have advocated open-borders, with benefit reforms, but also accept that both sides of this debate oppose this for puritanical purposes. Post-Brexit Eu citizens will have to meet the same qualifications as UK subjects: Why he thinks they should not be conformant to English-Law puzzles me.
:vapid:
https://twitter.com/snlester/status/969978864201011200
That was meant to be a reductio ad absurdum, but on second thougfhts it just states the position of the Labour party.
If we're looking for pointers to the next election expect a party to have at the centre of its campaign the offer of a new Referendum and expect them to win by a landslide.
https://twitter.com/MomentumEnfield/status/970246706427285504
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/7830/usafs-nuke-sniffing-plane-is-flying-on-a-mission-near-the-arctic-right-now
https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/602210-high-radioactivity-over-urals-2.html
It’s not another Chernobyl, but it could be an accident at a Russian mil nuke base.
Scottish Labour for the Single Market will fight for the party to support permanent UK membership of the European Single Market and Customs Union — in contrast with Leonard’s more Eurosceptic tone. The grassroots campaign, aimed at protecting jobs, opposing austerity and defending workers’ rights, is co-chaired by Dugdale, Catherine Stihler MEP and Ian Murray MP.
With the support of members across the country, Scottish Labour can join forces with the trade union movement, Welsh Labour and London mayor Sadiq Khan in persuading Labour to back permanent UK membership of the single market, it claims.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/dugdale-challenge-on-brexit-c990m2hzg
https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/970246697522749440
Leavers as a group on here are remarkably hostile to any criticism of Leave positions, taking them very personally and seeing that as a cue to attack anyone making such points in very personal terms. I suppose guilt can provoke that.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/970249160661372928
Where the largest minority of the largest minority gets winner-take-all and everyone else gets suck-it-up-loser.
Where we get the choice of May or Corbyn and nothing else.
Joy unconfined.
And, rather unsurprisingly, in an adversarial democracy with the political culture embedded in, the outcome of a massive referendum remains adversarial and divisive.