Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Alastair Meeks looks ahead to next month’s local elections

13

Comments

  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,936

    malcolmg said:

    The joint action has been welcomed by the International community and NATO and seems to have been successful. The UK, France and the US are drafting a resolution over Syria to put to the UN and of course the alliance will have more influence over matters in Syria than they had before the strikes.

    So in spite of wide International approval the left in this Country only want to give succour to Russia and Assad.

    G, at the end of the day it achieved nothing and most people don't care a jot. We just wasted several million whilst our streets are full of people sleeping rough. You could not make it up.
    I am not so sure. The attack was a joint effort and has opened the door to a joint UK, France, US resolution to the UN over Syria and it has increased our influence.

    In the longer term this may have a force for good but then I am not as cynical or excel at wind ups as your goodself
    Personally I think Malcolm's analysis is just about spot on. This attack has achieved nothing of value in terms of resolving conflict or deterring further use of chemical weapons and if anything has sent a message that any punishment for use of banned weapons will be nothing more than a token gesture. As many of us have been saying it is virtue signalling of the worst kind.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    glw said:

    Jesus, what a sight, the Labour shadow defence secretary on R5 trying to dig Conspiracy Theory Corbyn out of a hole, after they played him the clip where Jezza suggests it might not have been Assad.

    The Labour party leadership have become like Infowars, can't be long until they talk about the moon landings being fake, 9/11 being an inside job, etc.

    I would love a sting by a newspaper to get Corbyn's views off the record when he thinks he's amongst friends. The stuff Corbyn comes out with in public is bonkers, but presumably guarded. What does he say in private?
    Well they caught him out during the GE where he basically said ha suckers believed my BS on trident renewal.
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    glw said:

    Roger said:

    He has to show that it's not about siding with the wrong people but about democracy and the undesirability of resorting to bombing. I have a strong feeling that's where the zeitgeist is heading at the moment

    You need to catch up, this morning Corbyn has made it clear that he will be siding with the wrong people.
    Mr Corbyn wants the UK to press for a ceasefire.Which "wrong people" are you talking about?Whose grandchildren are the "wrong people" or the "right people" and does it include Yemeni children,or children in Gaza?

    "Mr Corbyn wants the UK to press for a ceasefire."

    Wow. Incredible. Why didn't anyone think of that before?

    All we have to do is to 'press' for a ceasefire and children will stop being gassed.

    Amazing. Corbyn is a true genius.

    Not one person in the entire country has thought of this, and suddenly we have the answer to end all the bloodshed.

    What a hero.

  • Options
    Yorkcity said:

    malcolmg said:

    The joint action has been welcomed by the International community and NATO and seems to have been successful. The UK, France and the US are drafting a resolution over Syria to put to the UN and of course the alliance will have more influence over matters in Syria than they had before the strikes.

    So in spite of wide International approval the left in this Country only want to give succour to Russia and Assad.

    G, at the end of the day it achieved nothing and most people don't care a jot. We just wasted several million whilst our streets are full of people sleeping rough. You could not make it up.
    I am not so sure. The attack was a joint effort and has opened the door to a joint UK, France, US resolution to the UN over Syria and it has increased our influence.

    In the longer term this may have a force for good but then I am not as cynical or excel at wind ups as your goodself
    You probably said the same last year when Trump sent missiles.
    That is a bit unfair. I do not recall saying anything last year as we were not involved.

    However, I do hope that there are positives over the intervention and it has received wide support across the Internationsl community.

    But today's interview with Corbyn on Marr was one of the most alarming demonstrations by any UK leader in my lifetime of a pro Kremlin anti west agenda that surely is unacceptable to our Country
  • Options

    malcolmg said:

    The joint action has been welcomed by the International community and NATO and seems to have been successful. The UK, France and the US are drafting a resolution over Syria to put to the UN and of course the alliance will have more influence over matters in Syria than they had before the strikes.

    So in spite of wide International approval the left in this Country only want to give succour to Russia and Assad.

    G, at the end of the day it achieved nothing and most people don't care a jot. We just wasted several million whilst our streets are full of people sleeping rough. You could not make it up.
    I am not so sure. The attack was a joint effort and has opened the door to a joint UK, France, US resolution to the UN over Syria and it has increased our influence.

    In the longer term this may have a force for good but then I am not as cynical or excel at wind ups as your goodself
    Personally I think Malcolm's analysis is just about spot on. This attack has achieved nothing of value in terms of resolving conflict or deterring further use of chemical weapons and if anything has sent a message that any punishment for use of banned weapons will be nothing more than a token gesture. As many of us have been saying it is virtue signalling of the worst kind.
    I am more hopeful than that - time will tell.
  • Options

    What did Theresa May have to fear from the British parliament?

    None to be fair - probably get a reasonable majority helped by today's car crash interview of Corbyn by Marr
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Could it be that both May and Corbyn are wrong and that we need someone new?
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,985



    - Gulf War '91 (liberation of Kuwait from invasion by Saddam Hussein)

    That wasn't liberation as Kuwait was placed back under the bejeweled and despotic thumb of the al-Sabah family and their coterie.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Yorkcity said:

    malcolmg said:

    The joint action has been welcomed by the International community and NATO and seems to have been successful. The UK, France and the US are drafting a resolution over Syria to put to the UN and of course the alliance will have more influence over matters in Syria than they had before the strikes.

    So in spite of wide International approval the left in this Country only want to give succour to Russia and Assad.

    G, at the end of the day it achieved nothing and most people don't care a jot. We just wasted several million whilst our streets are full of people sleeping rough. You could not make it up.
    I am not so sure. The attack was a joint effort and has opened the door to a joint UK, France, US resolution to the UN over Syria and it has increased our influence.

    In the longer term this may have a force for good but then I am not as cynical or excel at wind ups as your goodself
    You probably said the same last year when Trump sent missiles.
    That is a bit unfair. I do not recall saying anything last year as we were not involved.

    However, I do hope that there are positives over the intervention and it has received wide support across the Internationsl community.

    But today's interview with Corbyn on Marr was one of the most alarming demonstrations by any UK leader in my lifetime of a pro Kremlin anti west agenda that surely is unacceptable to our Country
    That is the most shocking thing to me. I knew jezza was anti-war, but he is actively pushing conspiracy theories of the Russians.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    Jonathan said:

    Could it be that both May and Corbyn are wrong and that we need someone new?

    On the issues facing Britain, yes.

    On foreign policy it rather easier. May is the establishment; Corbyn is every conceivable anti-establishment position, all at once.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,056

    The political polarisation in England is likely to be seen to be widening if the local elections go the way I think,cities,including London,turning full on red,and much of the rest getting a brighter shade of blue.This can only lead to more fragmentation and more calls for devolved cities,including London becoming an EU city-state, and a devolved Yorkshire.
    The message from people amounts to a call for devolution in England whether spawned by English nationalism or a liberal call for genuine localism.My hope is that there is a renewed call for regional government.

    Regional Government is a horrible idea. It does nothing to address the differences and polarisation you refer to, all it does is lead to exactly the same problems on a regional basis with the rural and shire areas being dominated by the cities. It leads to more imbalances and more fragmentation not less.

    Power should rest primarily at the local level not the regional. Districts and (at a push) counties should be the main political units, certainly not artificially created regions.
    Making England more imbalanced and more fragmented would be regarded as a good thing by some people.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Jonathan said:

    Could it be that both May and Corbyn are wrong and that we need someone new?

    On the issues facing Britain, yes.

    On foreign policy it rather easier. May is the establishment; Corbyn is every conceivable anti-establishment position, all at once.
    Corbyn is taking the establishment position, it happens to be the establishment of a foreign power.
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    What did Theresa May have to fear from the British parliament?

    None to be fair - probably get a reasonable majority helped by today's car crash interview of Corbyn by Marr
    Typical May retreating to her bunker at the whiff of gunfire.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721

    IanB2 said:

    Thanks for that; lot of work in there, Mr M; Much midnight oil burned! Inclined to agree with Mr B2 that the media response will be driven by London, but we have noticed here, have we not that the LD’s are out-polling conventional expectations.
    There’s some evidence, is there not, that many Kippers were previously non-voters; have they changed their habits, and will vote this time, or will tey go back to their old ways?

    By the time you take the normally non-voters, NOTAs, and sundry eccentrics away from the UKIP vote totals, there isn't enough left to swing things much in the Tories' favour. That was one of the mistaken assumptions of 2017.
    UKIP's leader announces plans to quit on day he is confirmed
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43769408
    When someone mentioned it last night I thought it was a joke, even for UKIP.
  • Options

    What did Theresa May have to fear from the British parliament?

    None to be fair - probably get a reasonable majority helped by today's car crash interview of Corbyn by Marr
    Typical May retreating to her bunker at the whiff of gunfire.
    Not sure what you mean - she is addressing the HOC tomorrow pm
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    glw said:

    Scott_P said:

    James Tapsfield - @JamesTapsfield: Labour leader says he would not countenance any military action without UN resolution. So Russian veto on UK foreign policy

    Morally if not legally Jeremy Corbyn is a traitor.
    Both, he has shown he hates this country and will side with any organisation or country which opposes the UK.
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    What did Theresa May have to fear from the British parliament?

    None to be fair - probably get a reasonable majority helped by today's car crash interview of Corbyn by Marr
    Typical May retreating to her bunker at the whiff of gunfire.
    Not sure what you mean - she is addressing the HOC tomorrow pm
    She had opportunity to recall parliament before she lobbed a few missiles into Syria.
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    See ya later.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721

    Survation. Fieldwork 9am to 4pm yesterday

    Do you personally support or oppose the launching of military strikes against Syria by the UK?

    Support 36%

    Oppose 40%

    Don’t know 24%

    Theresa May had obtained cabinet support for "the need to take action" in Syria. Which of the following is closest to your view?

    Theresa May should have held a parliamentary debate and vote before intervening militarily in Syria 54%

    Theresa May should not have held a parliamentary debate and vote before intervening militarily in Syria 30%

    Don’t know 17%

    Theresa May did not seek a parliamentary vote before intervening militarily in Syria. Which of the following is closest to your view?

    I trust Theresa May to make the right decision 39%

    I do not trust Theresa May to make the right decision 43%

    Don’t know 17%

    Which of the following do you trust the most to make the right decision regarding Syria?

    MPs as a collective 51%

    Theresa May 27%

    Don’t know 22%

    Hardly decisive, so after sone moaning from mps she should be fine. Some are probably happy -"they get to complain about not being consulted, not have another debate on intervention and their decision on the record.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    Scott_P said:

    James Tapsfield - @JamesTapsfield: Labour leader says he would not countenance any military action without UN resolution. So Russian veto on UK foreign policy

    Morally if not legally Jeremy Corbyn is a traitor.
    Both, he has shown he hates this country and will side with any organisation or country which opposes the UK.
    And he is total brazen about it...on national tv time and again unwilling to accept security service info from at least 3 friendly states trying to spread doubt (straight out of the putin playbook).
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721

    And less than 24 hours after I predicted Corbyn would put this in the next Lab manifesto, Here it is:

    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/985434260868878336

    Given it has been a trend in recent years, I am a little surprised he didn't have it in the last one.

    Of course, promising to do so demonstrates how it isn't a requirement now, so at least that part of the debate is spared.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859

    Tony Benn on bombing. The odd look chap at the back is the next Prime Minister of Great Britain and Northern Ireland:

    https://twitter.com/robabdul/status/984899279675383808

    I didn't always agree with what he said or his political views but Tony Benn really was a stunningly good speaker and Parliamentarian. The current crop look and sound like a bunch of pigmies in comparison.
    Absolutely. It’s a real shame that political discourse has been reduced to soundbites for the rolling news and memes for social media.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    DavidL said:

    On topic, not sure if this was written before the 3 opinion polls last night which all showed a dead heat. If there was a Tory lead it seems to have evaporated so any swing in their favour is going to be miniscule.

    In fact, I think it is going to be negative for the reasons shown by Alastair's rather excellent map. The Tories may or may not be ahead nationally but if they are it is because they are doing better (on the whole) in the areas that are not voting this time out. The areas where voting is taking place is where Labour has outperformed their national average. So we have seen London, for example, become ever more Labour even as Labour lost ground in the midlands and parts of the north.

    If these trends continue I would expect these results to show a modest net swing to Labour in these areas compared to 2014, simply because these are the areas that they have made the most progress since then. The Tories might do better in some regions, especially where UKIP did well in 2014, but overall these results are in Corbyn central.

    I expect a net Tory to Labour swing of 2-3% and Labour net gains of between 100 and 150, mainly in London. Which, to be honest, would not be the worst result for a government enduring a sticky patch more than a year after the election.

    However, it would be a worse result for the Tories than they managed in the Local Elections following Macmillan's 1959 victory. The Tories made gains from Labour in 1960 and both sets of 1961 elections - ie the County elections in April and the Urban elections in May.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    kle4 said:

    And less than 24 hours after I predicted Corbyn would put this in the next Lab manifesto, Here it is:

    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/985434260868878336

    Given it has been a trend in recent years, I am a little surprised he didn't have it in the last one.

    Of course, promising to do so demonstrates how it isn't a requirement now, so at least that part of the debate is spared.
    What will military engagement cover? SAS or spooks doing their thing? Will we have to advertise to the world that we are going to deploy SAS somewhere?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,502
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Max Verstappen is proving for the second weekend in a row that he's a right Dutch shunt

    Yup, he’s thrown away a podium today. Needs to calm down more than a little.

    Great race though.
    Everyone makes a mistake once in a while, but Verstappen - and the guys who make Mercedes’ strategy calls - seem to be making a habit of it.
    Merecedes can probably improve their organisation... Verstappen might just be an irredeemable copy of his father, which would be a shame for someone of his talent.

    Mercedes’ strategy wasn’t half as bad as Ferrari’s strategy that, safety car aside, would have cost them the race win.
    No - but it’s been three races in a row.
    All teams make mistakes, but Mercedes don’t seem capable of race strategy at all.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    Scott_P said:

    James Tapsfield - @JamesTapsfield: Labour leader says he would not countenance any military action without UN resolution. So Russian veto on UK foreign policy

    Morally if not legally Jeremy Corbyn is a traitor.
    Both, he has shown he hates this country and will side with any organisation or country which opposes the UK.
    And he is total brazen about it...on national tv time and again unwilling to accept security service info from at least 3 friendly states trying to spread doubt (straight out of the putin playbook).
    He's also made of teflon and we need to be prepared for that in 2022. Nothing we throw at him sticks. Look at the polls before and after the anti-Semitism row - no change.

    The only way to defeat Labour and Corbyn is to make a positive case for our party and for capitalism. May is not the right leader for that and Hammond is not the right chancellor. As much as I disagree with JRM, he does seem to get the positive vision side. It's time for Kwasi to get a big job and start his audition for being leader in 2022.
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    What did Theresa May have to fear from the British parliament?

    Nothing that I can see. I do not think she is bothered about parliament.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    Scott_P said:

    Matt Dathan - @matt_dathan: And now Jeremy Corbyn demands to see " incontrovertible evidence" that Russia was behind the Skripal attack.
    He'll be accused of playing into the Kremlin's hands again.... @MarrShow

    It's odd, as he has stated before, a month ago, that evidence pointed to it being highly likely to be Russia. Why is he seemingly going down the route of demanding unrealistically incontrovertible proof now, and undermining his previous statement? Nothing about sonething so clandestine could be proven incontrovertibly.

    We all know he is safe as houses, but he seems to be undercutting his previous acceptance of the probable position if these quotes are correct.

    Id almost go conspiracy theory and say he wants a row focused on him again for some reason. The action in Syria is not very popular, so he wants more hocus on him so people catch his stance on that?
  • Options
    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    Scott_P said:

    James Tapsfield - @JamesTapsfield: Labour leader says he would not countenance any military action without UN resolution. So Russian veto on UK foreign policy

    Morally if not legally Jeremy Corbyn is a traitor.
    Both, he has shown he hates this country and will side with any organisation or country which opposes the UK.
    Supporting the Chagos islanders is high treason under your limited version of traitorhood I guess.Like most Tories from Brandon's troll farm,you divide into the deserving and the undeserving,the good people,bad people split,the genuine and the fakers when all you are doing is preserving imperialism.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859

    What did Theresa May have to fear from the British parliament?

    None to be fair - probably get a reasonable majority helped by today's car crash interview of Corbyn by Marr
    Typical May retreating to her bunker at the whiff of gunfire.
    Not sure what you mean - she is addressing the HOC tomorrow pm
    Tomorrow in Parliament is going to be well worth getting in extra popcorn!

    It’s also my wedding anniversary, so I’ve got much better things to be doing than watching how many Labour MPs agree with Corbyn that Russia should dictate our foreign policy.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    tlg86 said:

    Pretty honest stuff from Stewart. The wrong sort of people voted leave.

    Did he really say that? Shame, but as you say if he's honest about it I can respect it. Plenty imply it.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    Scott_P said:

    James Tapsfield - @JamesTapsfield: Labour leader says he would not countenance any military action without UN resolution. So Russian veto on UK foreign policy

    Morally if not legally Jeremy Corbyn is a traitor.
    Both, he has shown he hates this country and will side with any organisation or country which opposes the UK.
    And he is total brazen about it...on national tv time and again unwilling to accept security service info from at least 3 friendly states trying to spread doubt (straight out of the putin playbook).
    He's also made of teflon and we need to be prepared for that in 2022. Nothing we throw at him sticks. Look at the polls before and after the anti-Semitism row - no change.

    The only way to defeat Labour and Corbyn is to make a positive case for our party and for capitalism. May is not the right leader for that and Hammond is not the right chancellor. As much as I disagree with JRM, he does seem to get the positive vision side. It's time for Kwasi to get a big job and start his audition for being leader in 2022.
    Yes I made this point last night, he is like oasis during britpop boom. Noel said he could have recorded himself taking a shit and it would still have sold a million copies...I think after the second album he wasn’t fair off proving that point.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Betting Post

    F1: suggest tiny stakes (pence rather than pounds) but with boost you can back Magnussen and Grosjean to win (each way) in Azerbaijan at 501 and 651 respectively [Ladbrokes].

    That might sound nuts. But I backed Perez at 201 on the same basis last time, and that came within a hair's breadth of coming off. The circuit is very tight, so there can be plenty of accidents, and there's a large straight. This year, Ferrari power seems to be the best, and Haas have a Ferrari engine. They were also very quick on Australia (on for 4th and 5th or thereabouts when they conked out in the pit stops).
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    Dura_Ace said:



    - Gulf War '91 (liberation of Kuwait from invasion by Saddam Hussein)

    That wasn't liberation as Kuwait was placed back under the bejeweled and despotic thumb of the al-Sabah family and their coterie.
    OK, a return to the status quo so that aggression wasn't rewarded. (Albeit, it has been suggested the Kuwaitis were being very naughty in using directional drilling to drain Iraqi oilfields from facilities within Kuwait....)
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    In some ways Corbyn's position is not so different to that adopted by Attlee and the Labour Party in the mid-1930s.Their policy then was based on Collective Security through the League of Nations rather than direct intervention or rearmament.Not until 1938 was there a serious reappraisal of how to deal with the threat posed by Hitler.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    tlg86 said:

    Mr. 86, what have Stewart and Corbyn been saying?

    Stewart: Jean-Luc Picard and his character from X-Men were good men. They'd have voted remain.r
    I think they would have too, though as they were good would not be the reason. Picard was the captain of the flag ship of the United federation of planets, of course he woukd back remaining in the EU, all about pooling resources and cooperating. And professor x was more concerned with borderless issues of wider humanity.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Matt Dathan - @matt_dathan: And now Jeremy Corbyn demands to see " incontrovertible evidence" that Russia was behind the Skripal attack.
    He'll be accused of playing into the Kremlin's hands again.... @MarrShow

    It's odd, as he has stated before, a month ago, that evidence pointed to it being highly likely to be Russia. Why is he seemingly going down the route of demanding unrealistically incontrovertible proof now, and undermining his previous statement? Nothing about sonething so clandestine could be proven incontrovertibly.

    We all know he is safe as houses, but he seems to be undercutting his previous acceptance of the probable position if these quotes are correct.

    Id almost go conspiracy theory and say he wants a row focused on him again for some reason. The action in Syria is not very popular, so he wants more hocus on him so people catch his stance on that?
    And this is after he has had the top secret security briefings where the spooks will lay out even more evidence that us plebs aren’t allowed to know about.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    Scott_P said:

    James Tapsfield - @JamesTapsfield: Labour leader says he would not countenance any military action without UN resolution. So Russian veto on UK foreign policy

    Morally if not legally Jeremy Corbyn is a traitor.
    Both, he has shown he hates this country and will side with any organisation or country which opposes the UK.
    And he is total brazen about it...on national tv time and again unwilling to accept security service info from at least 3 friendly states trying to spread doubt (straight out of the putin playbook).
    He's also made of teflon and we need to be prepared for that in 2022. Nothing we throw at him sticks. Look at the polls before and after the anti-Semitism row - no change.

    The only way to defeat Labour and Corbyn is to make a positive case for our party and for capitalism. May is not the right leader for that and Hammond is not the right chancellor. As much as I disagree with JRM, he does seem to get the positive vision side. It's time for Kwasi to get a big job and start his audition for being leader in 2022.
    The polls are showing he is far from teflon with his ratings plummeting. The headline rates are locked in step due to brand loyalty in my opinion.

    I do agree with your last paragraph but that will come post Brexit
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    Scott_P said:

    James Tapsfield - @JamesTapsfield: Labour leader says he would not countenance any military action without UN resolution. So Russian veto on UK foreign policy

    Morally if not legally Jeremy Corbyn is a traitor.
    Both, he has shown he hates this country and will side with any organisation or country which opposes the UK.
    Supporting the Chagos islanders is high treason under your limited version of traitorhood I guess.Like most Tories from Brandon's troll farm,you divide into the deserving and the undeserving,the good people,bad people split,the genuine and the fakers when all you are doing is preserving imperialism.
    It's not about siding with ONE group of people who opposes the British government, it's about persuing a policy whereby the ONLY THING these people have in common is they oppose the British/Western view of things. Hamas are Islamic nationalists, Iran are a Shia theocracy, Venezuela is marxist populism, whereas Cuba are marxit-leninists - but no-one could describe the IRA of wanting any of those things.
  • Options
    It has been said she was deeply moved by the photographs of the dead children from the chemical attack and was at times near tears
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    Scott_P said:

    James Tapsfield - @JamesTapsfield: Labour leader says he would not countenance any military action without UN resolution. So Russian veto on UK foreign policy

    Morally if not legally Jeremy Corbyn is a traitor.
    Both, he has shown he hates this country and will side with any organisation or country which opposes the UK.
    And he is total brazen about it...on national tv time and again unwilling to accept security service info from at least 3 friendly states trying to spread doubt (straight out of the putin playbook).
    He's also made of teflon and we need to be prepared for that in 2022. Nothing we throw at him sticks. Look at the polls before and after the anti-Semitism row - no change.

    The only way to defeat Labour and Corbyn is to make a positive case for our party and for capitalism. May is not the right leader for that and Hammond is not the right chancellor. As much as I disagree with JRM, he does seem to get the positive vision side. It's time for Kwasi to get a big job and start his audition for being leader in 2022.
    The polls are showing he is far from teflon with his ratings plummeting. The headline rates are locked in step due to brand loyalty in my opinion.

    I do agree with your last paragraph but that will come post Brexit
    But his ratings are nothing like as low as a year ago - and would be likely to recover sharply in the course of an election campaign.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    .

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    Scott_P said:

    James Tapsfield - @JamesTapsfield: Labour leader says he would not countenance any military action without UN resolution. So Russian veto on UK foreign policy

    Morally if not legally Jeremy Corbyn is a traitor.
    Both, he has shown he hates this country and will side with any organisation or country which opposes the UK.
    And he is total brazen about it...on national tv time and again unwilling to accept security service info from at least 3 friendly states trying to spread doubt (straight out of the putin playbook).
    He's also made of teflon and we need to be prepared for that in 2022. Nothing we throw at him sticks. Look at the polls before and after the anti-Semitism row - no change.

    The only way to defeat Labour and Corbyn is to make a positive case for our party and for capitalism. May is not the right leader for that and Hammond is not the right chancellor. As much as I disagree with JRM, he does seem to get the positive vision side. It's time for Kwasi to get a big job and start his audition for being leader in 2022.
    The polls are showing he is far from teflon with his ratings plummeting. The headline rates are locked in step due to brand loyalty in my opinion.

    I do agree with your last paragraph but that will come post Brexit
    His personal ratings were terrible before the election as well and then the campaign started. Corbyn is a formidable campaigner, like it or not, that's the Corbyn we will be dealing with in 2022. Not the one bogged down by anti-Semitism and other horrible views held by him or his supporters.

    I think the whips office needs to send a few leftist Tories on a mission to help that stupid £50m party get started because it hurts Labour a lot more than it hurts us.
  • Options
    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    Scott_P said:

    James Tapsfield - @JamesTapsfield: Labour leader says he would not countenance any military action without UN resolution. So Russian veto on UK foreign policy

    Morally if not legally Jeremy Corbyn is a traitor.
    Both, he has shown he hates this country and will side with any organisation or country which opposes the UK.
    And he is total brazen about it...on national tv time and again unwilling to accept security service info from at least 3 friendly states trying to spread doubt (straight out of the putin playbook).
    He's also made of teflon and we need to be prepared for that in 2022. Nothing we throw at him sticks. Look at the polls before and after the anti-Semitism row - no change.

    The only way to defeat Labour and Corbyn is to make a positive case for our party and for capitalism. May is not the right leader for that and Hammond is not the right chancellor. As much as I disagree with JRM, he does seem to get the positive vision side. It's time for Kwasi to get a big job and start his audition for being leader in 2022.
    The polls are showing he is far from teflon with his ratings plummeting. The headline rates are locked in step due to brand loyalty in my opinion.

    I do agree with your last paragraph but that will come post Brexit
    But his ratings are nothing like as low as a year ago - and would be likely to recover sharply in the course of an election campaign.
    I think we will need to agree to disagree on that
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2018

    It has been said she was deeply moved by the photographs of the dead children from the chemical attack and was at times near tears
    Although not a big fan of may and her robotic nature, it is clear that her upbringing has instilled a very strong sense of right and wrong and that she must act against this evil.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    Scott_P said:

    James Tapsfield - @JamesTapsfield: Labour leader says he would not countenance any military action without UN resolution. So Russian veto on UK foreign policy

    Morally if not legally Jeremy Corbyn is a traitor.
    Both, he has shown he hates this country and will side with any organisation or country which opposes the UK.
    And he is total brazen about it...on national tv time and again unwilling to accept security service info from at least 3 friendly states trying to spread doubt (straight out of the putin playbook).
    He's also made of teflon and we need to be prepared for that in 2022. Nothing we throw at him sticks. Look at the polls before and after the anti-Semitism row - no change.

    The only way to defeat Labour and Corbyn is to make a positive case for our party and for capitalism. May is not the right leader for that and Hammond is not the right chancellor. As much as I disagree with JRM, he does seem to get the positive vision side. It's time for Kwasi to get a big job and start his audition for being leader in 2022.
    Well sead and I hartely agree, I would also add Kemi Badenoch, to your list she, in a simeler way has an positive story to tell about capitalism and liberty, which she articulates with a scene of hummer and optimistic.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3o0Cx-kqww
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    ttps://twitter.com/Maomentum_/status/985446866065162240

    https://twitter.com/Maomentum_/status/985251356633157632
    Russia imperialism on the other hand is to be welcomed.
    Bits of Labour are siding with a government that is diametrically opposed to almost everything Labour used to stand for. It seems that the Russian goverment's anti-Westerness is enough to justify ignoring everything else about it.

    And indeed, to justify ignoring everything rational, logical and reasonable. Labour requires a conviction of both Russia and Syria to be on the standard of beyond all unreasonable doubt. If they can come up with anyold moon-bat loony half-cocked conspriacy theory, that is enough to not get a conviction from a Labour jury.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    It has been said she was deeply moved by the photographs of the dead children from the chemical attack and was at times near tears
    That is not a good thing. Our leaders should have the emotional fortitude to not be swayed by pictures and videos.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,261
    edited April 2018

    Dura_Ace said:



    - Gulf War '91 (liberation of Kuwait from invasion by Saddam Hussein)

    That wasn't liberation as Kuwait was placed back under the bejeweled and despotic thumb of the al-Sabah family and their coterie.
    OK, a return to the status quo so that aggression wasn't rewarded. (Albeit, it has been suggested the Kuwaitis were being very naughty in using directional drilling to drain Iraqi oilfields from facilities within Kuwait....)
    Israel has occupied various parts of West Bank and the Golan since 1967...
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    Scott_P said:

    James Tapsfield - @JamesTapsfield: Labour leader says he would not countenance any military action without UN resolution. So Russian veto on UK foreign policy

    Morally if not legally Jeremy Corbyn is a traitor.
    Both, he has shown he hates this country and will side with any organisation or country which opposes the UK.
    And he is total brazen about it...on national tv time and again unwilling to accept security service info from at least 3 friendly states trying to spread doubt (straight out of the putin playbook).
    He's also made of teflon and we need to be prepared for that in 2022. Nothing we throw at him sticks. Look at the polls before and after the anti-Semitism row - no change.

    The only way to defeat Labour and Corbyn is to make a positive case for our party and for capitalism. May is not the right leader for that and Hammond is not the right chancellor. As much as I disagree with JRM, he does seem to get the positive vision side. It's time for Kwasi to get a big job and start his audition for being leader in 2022.
    The polls are showing he is far from teflon with his ratings plummeting. The headline rates are locked in step due to brand loyalty in my opinion.

    I do agree with your last paragraph but that will come post Brexit
    But his ratings are nothing like as low as a year ago - and would be likely to recover sharply in the course of an election campaign.
    I think we will need to agree to disagree on that
    Well it is a fact that his ratings were a lot lower a year ago! We can only speculate as to what might happen in an election campaign - but based on the only precedent available to us Corbyn would be likely to perform well.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    TGOHF said:

    Imagine being in a cult/party led by this doddery old tin foil hatted leftie loon.
    .

    we don't have to imagine it. The members think his performance is good.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721

    TGOHF said:

    Boris excellent on Marr.

    I am not a great fan of Boris but after that deeply disturbing interview by the malign Corbyn it is refreshing to hear an intelligent interview
    He manages am intelligent interview? Truly is a strange day.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,261

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    Scott_P said:

    James Tapsfield - @JamesTapsfield: Labour leader says he would not countenance any military action without UN resolution. So Russian veto on UK foreign policy

    Morally if not legally Jeremy Corbyn is a traitor.
    Both, he has shown he hates this country and will side with any organisation or country which opposes the UK.
    And he is total brazen about it...on national tv time and again unwilling to accept security service info from at least 3 friendly states trying to spread doubt (straight out of the putin playbook).
    I can just about remember when Russia/Soviet Union ethnically cleansed the Chagos Islands!
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721

    JackW said:

    TGOHF said:

    Boris excellent on Marr.

    I am not a great fan of Boris but after that deeply disturbing interview by the malign Corbyn it is refreshing to hear an intelligent interview
    Hhhmm ...

    Using Jezza as a yardstick against which to judge Boris is a very marginal recommendation.
    I accept that
    But that could be precisely what voters have to do at GE 2022.
    *shudder*
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Boris excellent on Marr.

    I am not a great fan of Boris but after that deeply disturbing interview by the malign Corbyn it is refreshing to hear an intelligent interview
    He manages am intelligent interview? Truly is a strange day.
    Even Trump managed to be a statesman on Friday night with his speech on Syria.

    I’d have loved to have been in that briefing - read slowly and calmly, no silly hand gestures, don’t even think about one word of ad-libbing no matter how much you think it will help you...
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:
    I'm not particularly comfortable holding sons responsible for the sins of their fathers.
    Not even when the sons or brothers or spouses might be used as a conduit for the sanctioned individual to evade sanctions?
    Then that should be investigated as such. If the authorities are concerned, examine their finances and dealings with a fine-tooth comb and try to remove any money not lawfully earnt (if, that is, there is suitable legislation (*) - I'm guessing the proceeds of crime act doesn't have enough breadth).

    We may well learn more to our advantage than just chucking them out.

    But it is really worrying that you assume there must be wrongdoing just because their father is a wrong'un. You might be right - in fact, I think you probably are, although I could not tell you the scale - but there has to be a proper and fair process.

    (*) If there is not such legislation, some should probably be created quickly. International agreement might also help here.
    I do not assume. I have reasons for saying that family members are all too often used as a way of bypassing sanctions or otherwise permitting bad actors access to our financial sector. I think we should be much tougher on this and on who we give British citizenship - something of real value - to.

    We have laws but we do not seem to use them or use them consistently and it gives our financial sector - and our country - a bad reputation. There is little point bombing a country while allowing its leaders and their families to salt away nice little nest eggs for them to enjoy for when they have to leave.
    If there are rules not being followed that should be corrected before other things are tried.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,022

    It has been said she was deeply moved by the photographs of the dead children from the chemical attack and was at times near tears
    Although not a big fan of may and her robotic nature, it is clear that her upbringing has instilled a very strong sense of right and wrong and that she must act against this evil.
    Good to get a break from you going on ad nauseum about naive lefties being played..
  • Options
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    Scott_P said:

    James Tapsfield - @JamesTapsfield: Labour leader says he would not countenance any military action without UN resolution. So Russian veto on UK foreign policy

    Morally if not legally Jeremy Corbyn is a traitor.
    Both, he has shown he hates this country and will side with any organisation or country which opposes the UK.
    And he is total brazen about it...on national tv time and again unwilling to accept security service info from at least 3 friendly states trying to spread doubt (straight out of the putin playbook).
    He's also made of teflon and we need to be prepared for that in 2022. Nothing we throw at him sticks. Look at the polls before and after the anti-Semitism row - no change.

    The only way to defeat Labour and Corbyn is to make a positive case for our party and for capitalism. May is not the right leader for that and Hammond is not the right chancellor. As much as I disagree with JRM, he does seem to get the positive vision side. It's time for Kwasi to get a big job and start his audition for being leader in 2022.
    The polls are showing he is far from teflon with his ratings plummeting. The headline rates are locked in step due to brand loyalty in my opinion.

    I do agree with your last paragraph but that will come post Brexit
    But his ratings are nothing like as low as a year ago - and would be likely to recover sharply in the course of an election campaign.
    I think we will need to agree to disagree on that
    Well it is a fact that his ratings were a lot lower a year ago! We can only speculate as to what might happen in an election campaign - but based on the only precedent available to us Corbyn would be likely to perform well.
    I don't disagree on that but recent events have shown his malign nature and are being noticed
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,709
    So predictions of English council results that are meh? Good work.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Boris excellent on Marr.

    I am not a great fan of Boris but after that deeply disturbing interview by the malign Corbyn it is refreshing to hear an intelligent interview
    He manages am intelligent interview? Truly is a strange day.
    Compared to Corbyn before him so a very low bar !!!
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    It has been said she was deeply moved by the photographs of the dead children from the chemical attack and was at times near tears
    Although not a big fan of may and her robotic nature, it is clear that her upbringing has instilled a very strong sense of right and wrong and that she must act against this evil.
    Hmm, does that also apply to Merkel and her seeing that picture of the dead kid on the beach? She opened up Europe's borders to 3 million "refugees".

    I'm not so sure I want our leaders to be so swayed by a few pictures and videos. Policy by emotional blackmail is a poor way to lead the country.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Corbyn on Marr this morning was defending not only his opposition to bombing Assad but even his opposition to bombing ISIS on the grounds the Kurds made the difference against them, suggesting he would be the first pacifist PM if elected

    There is a small but important list of jobs where being a pacifist should preclude you from getting the post:

    a) nuclear sub commander
    b) Minister of Defence
    c) Prime Minister

    How does Pacifist in Chief Corbyn suggest he would do better at negotiating North Korea's denuclearisation as against the approach of "he's mad as a bunch of frogs and might just bomb us back into the stone age Commander in Chief Trump?

    I'd love to hear that. A new, kinder diplomacy perhaps? *chortle*
    A nice discussion with herbal tea and scones and jam no doubt
    Scones are awesome. The world would be a better place with more scones.
    I second that. Though I am a heretic and have them without jam, as I loathe jam.

    But if I did, I would put jam on second.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Boris excellent on Marr.

    I am not a great fan of Boris but after that deeply disturbing interview by the malign Corbyn it is refreshing to hear an intelligent interview
    He manages am intelligent interview? Truly is a strange day.
    Boris's interview was a success when measured against the Jezza car crash. Not a ringing endorsement but given Boris's propensity for foot in mouth gaffes we must be grateful for small mercies.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Max, I agree. It's also a problem when certain explicitly harrowing images (dead child on a Turkish beach being the example most will think of) are shown but others (the child victims of the Nice terrorist attack) are not.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    Scott_P said:

    James Tapsfield - @JamesTapsfield: Labour leader says he would not countenance any military action without UN resolution. So Russian veto on UK foreign policy

    Morally if not legally Jeremy Corbyn is a traitor.
    Both, he has shown he hates this country and will side with any organisation or country which opposes the UK.
    And he is total brazen about it...on national tv time and again unwilling to accept security service info from at least 3 friendly states trying to spread doubt (straight out of the putin playbook).
    He's also made of teflon and we need to be prepared for that in 2022. Nothing we throw at him sticks. Look at the polls before and after the anti-Semitism row - no change.

    The only way to defeat Labour and Corbyn is to make a positive case for our party and for capitalism. May is not the right leader for that and Hammond is not the right chancellor. As much as I disagree with JRM, he does seem to get the positive vision side. It's time for Kwasi to get a big job and start his audition for being leader in 2022.
    The polls are showing he is far from teflon with his ratings plummeting. The headline rates are locked in step due to brand loyalty in my opinion.

    I do agree with your last paragraph but that will come post Brexit
    But his ratings are nothing like as low as a year ago - and would be likely to recover sharply in the course of an election campaign.
    I think we will need to agree to disagree on that
    Well it is a fact that his ratings were a lot lower a year ago! We can only speculate as to what might happen in an election campaign - but based on the only precedent available to us Corbyn would be likely to perform well.
    I don't disagree on that but recent events have shown his malign nature and are being noticed
    But such points were being made - and being widely accepted - a year ago.He would start a campaign from a higher baseline- and it is likely that his ratings are a bit artificially low due to the internal anti-semitic row a couple of weeks back.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721

    Scott_P said:

    James Tapsfield - @JamesTapsfield: Labour leader says he would not countenance any military action without UN resolution. So Russian veto on UK foreign policy

    I'm a bit rusty on the details of UN procedure, but I thought that it was possible to take resolutions to the General Assembly where a two-thirds majority would overrule a veto by a member of the Permanent Five.

    Of course, members of the permanent five would generally pretend they don't need a resolution than weaken their own veto power by using the General Assembly option, and Corbyn is using the lack of a UN resolution as cover for his opposition in all circumstances, but as a point of logic insisting on a UN resolution does not, I think, give Russia a veto on British foreign policy - if we are confident of persuading two-thirds of the countries of the world to support us.
    Sounds technically true, but it is an unreasonably high bar to place on our ability to act. And I even agree with him on not interfering in Syria!
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,985
    justin124 said:

    We can only speculate as to what might happen in an election campaign - but based on the only precedent available to us Corbyn would be likely to perform well.

    One thing that is for sure is that he'll have a lot more confidence in the next GE and will offer a dramatically more progressive and radical manifesto than in 2017. I think young people in particular will be very ready for a message of very real change.

    Of course, young people like Fortnite, anime and rap music so they are fucking stupid but there you are. They will vote for JC's transformative platform in huge numbers.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721

    What did Theresa May have to fear from the British parliament?

    She might have lost. Even if she didn't it would have been nothing but grandstanding. And the public don't forgive leaders for military escapades even if they get parliamentary approval. So she had nothing to gain by consulting them, if she felt action was the right choice.
  • Options
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    Scott_P said:

    James Tapsfield - @JamesTapsfield: Labour leader says he would not countenance any military action without UN resolution. So Russian veto on UK foreign policy

    Morally if not legally Jeremy Corbyn is a traitor.
    Both, he has shown he hates this country and will side with any organisation or country which opposes the UK.
    And he is total brazen about it...on national tv time and again unwilling to accept security service info from at least 3 friendly states trying to spread doubt (straight out of the putin playbook).
    He's also made of teflon and we need to be prepared for that in 2022. Nothing we throw at him sticks. Look at the polls before and after the anti-Semitism row - no change.

    The only way to defeat Labour and Corbyn is to make a positive case for our party and for capitalism. May is not the right leader for that and Hammond is not the right chancellor. As much as I disagree with JRM, he does seem to get the positive vision side. It's time for Kwasi to get a big job and start his audition for being leader in 2022.
    The polls are showing he is far from teflon with his ratings plummeting. The headline rates are locked in step due to brand loyalty in my opinion.

    I do agree with your last paragraph but that will come post Brexit
    But his ratings are nothing like as low as a year ago - and would be likely to recover sharply in the course of an election campaign.
    I think we will need to agree to disagree on that
    Well it is a fact that his ratings were a lot lower a year ago! We can only speculate as to what might happen in an election campaign - but based on the only precedent available to us Corbyn would be likely to perform well.
    I don't disagree on that but recent events have shown his malign nature and are being noticed
    But such points were being made - and being widely accepted - a year ago.He would start a campaign from a higher baseline- and it is likely that his ratings are a bit artificially low due to the internal anti-semitic row a couple of weeks back.
    His polling over Salisbury, Syria, and anti semitic are plummeting.

    But nothing to worry about - he is after all JC
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,192
    kle4 said:

    What did Theresa May have to fear from the British parliament?

    She might have lost. Even if she didn't it would have been nothing but grandstanding. And the public don't forgive leaders for military escapades even if they get parliamentary approval. So she had nothing to gain by consulting them, if she felt action was the right choice.
    I think we can be pretty sure the whips told her she might well lose a vote.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    Jonathan said:

    Could it be that both May and Corbyn are wrong and that we need someone new?

    Yes.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    edited April 2018
    MaxPB said:

    It has been said she was deeply moved by the photographs of the dead children from the chemical attack and was at times near tears
    That is not a good thing. Our leaders should have the emotional fortitude to not be swayed by pictures and videos.
    Forgive me if one finds this a mawkish comment, but the only bodies I've seen in a vid from a chemical attack are not super recent, only 2013 I think.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    The Dems could use political hegemony in particular states to split them up, but they aren't asking for that. Instead they want to cut Wyoming's senators which isnt going to work.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Surely that unrepresentativeness is the whole point of there being two senators to each state: to prevent large states drowning out the small ones. It might be interesting to wonder how this interacts with calls to break up California and perhaps other large states.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    It has been said she was deeply moved by the photographs of the dead children from the chemical attack and was at times near tears
    That is not a good thing. Our leaders should have the emotional fortitude to not be swayed by pictures and videos.
    Forgive me if one finds this a mawkish comment, but the only bodies I've seen in a vid from a chemical attack are not super recent, only 2013 I think.
    The media were saying that the photographs of the dead children and their parents were too horrific to publish. It would be these photos TM would have been presented with.

    It does raise the question why these pictures are censored - they could be published subject to a pre warning of their content
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914

    The Dems could use political hegemony in particular states to split them up, but they aren't asking for that. Instead they want to cut Wyoming's senators which isnt going to work.
    The large state/ small state bias isn't quite as GOP as one might think. I had a look after the US election
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859

    kle4 said:

    What did Theresa May have to fear from the British parliament?

    She might have lost. Even if she didn't it would have been nothing but grandstanding. And the public don't forgive leaders for military escapades even if they get parliamentary approval. So she had nothing to gain by consulting them, if she felt action was the right choice.
    I think we can be pretty sure the whips told her she might well lose a vote.
    It’s likely that the issue was a practical one, and the reason we entrust these things to the Executive. Discussions were ongoing with the Five Eyes and France, as well as security services, the UN and others including the Russians up until very late. IMO the PM shouldn’t need to ask Parliament for permission to send four Tornadoes on a single bombing run.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,192
    Montenegro is at the polls today:

    https://apnews.com/0babbb0f9dfe49e5be03c5c8a3416c7d
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,854
    edited April 2018

    It has been said she was deeply moved by the photographs of the dead children from the chemical attack and was at times near tears
    Where has she been this last 7 years, we have had thousands of such photographs just by bombs, bullets , starvation , has she just come out of a coma.
    also thousands of children being bombed and starved in Yemen using British bombs and military help, has she any tears for them or is that different.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    There's interesting bits to this proposed rule. Under what circumstances would the executive retain the ability to act, for one? Personally I go back and forth on it, but I get wary about it being a firm rule. It was made an executive authority for a reason, and pulling it back to parliament as a requirement, rather than a potential option, sounds like it could be difficult in a practical sense sometimes. Importantly, this debate cannot claim May denied them a power which belongs to them, just that it should be a power of theirs, which is a subtly different argument.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    edited April 2018
    Tory thinkthank Onward launches.

    ConHome said this a few months ago


    "It will inevitably be written up as a catspaw of George Osborne and a vehicle of the Cameroons. Or else labelled a competitor to Policy Exchange. And, maybe, viewed as a future resource for a future modernising Conservative leadership candidate. The truth is more subtle and interesting....

    Readers will note that two legs of the modern Conservative stool are well represented on the board of “Onward”: social liberalism (Soho modernisation) and social reform (Erdington modernisation) – the strands respectively championed by the Cameron/Osborne duumvirate and, in her first period as Prime Minister, by May. The third leg, Easterhouse modernisation, with its focus on the poorest in society, seems to be almost entirely absent. So is another force in modern conservatism. You would have to search very hard among those Board members to find a referendum backer of Brexit...

    We wait with interest to see who fronts the launch of “Onward”. (Or perhaps, with a nod to its Macron-iste roots, “Onward!”) Michael Gove is sometimes master of ceremonies on these occasions. Our money is on Ruth Davidson."

    The truth as it turns out, is both of them! (But no exclamation mark)
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    kle4 said:

    What did Theresa May have to fear from the British parliament?

    She might have lost. Even if she didn't it would have been nothing but grandstanding. And the public don't forgive leaders for military escapades even if they get parliamentary approval. So she had nothing to gain by consulting them, if she felt action was the right choice.
    I think we can be pretty sure the whips told her she might well lose a vote.
    I think not.

    May is risk averse when in comes to high profile political drama. She dodged the general election debates and doesn't perform well under public scrutiny. In such circumstances she's stiff and lacks political empathy.

    In my view she felt the window for House of Commons scrutiny was narrow enough for her to dodge the parliamentary bullet. The government would have comfortably won a vote with a substantial number of Labour MP's voting with the government or abstaining.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,854

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Matt Dathan - @matt_dathan: And now Jeremy Corbyn demands to see " incontrovertible evidence" that Russia was behind the Skripal attack.
    He'll be accused of playing into the Kremlin's hands again.... @MarrShow

    It's odd, as he has stated before, a month ago, that evidence pointed to it being highly likely to be Russia. Why is he seemingly going down the route of demanding unrealistically incontrovertible proof now, and undermining his previous statement? Nothing about sonething so clandestine could be proven incontrovertibly.

    We all know he is safe as houses, but he seems to be undercutting his previous acceptance of the probable position if these quotes are correct.

    Id almost go conspiracy theory and say he wants a row focused on him again for some reason. The action in Syria is not very popular, so he wants more hocus on him so people catch his stance on that?
    And this is after he has had the top secret security briefings where the spooks will lay out even more evidence that us plebs aren’t allowed to know about.
    Their pack of lies .........LOL
  • Options
    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    H/T Sec Cory Gardner.Some important information re Trump and cannabis policy.Mindful of successful ballots in swing states,he has said he is going to relinquish federal responsibility for policy and set this in law,this will be within the purview of the 50 individual states.This may well be presented to his libertarian base as Trump legalises marijuana.The other news is that previously anti-cannabis House Speaker,John Boehner is now becoming a paid advisor to Acreage Holdings,which proudly states it is creating a standard for the cannabis industry that’s rooted in experience.Once Trump saw the green gold $$,he is reported to be ready to leave it to the states and claim credit of course.
    All this has huge implications for global policy,including the UK,as it begins to mark an end of Nixon's War on Drugs.
    Or,Trump could change his mind, and then change it again.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    On topic, I still hadn't appreciated that, despite London, it might not be as brilliant a night in the locals for Labour . The Tories have gone the Jezza pre 2017 route of intense expectations management.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited April 2018
    Let’s face it - a commons vote would have been more about Maomentum and Nats signalling virtue rather than the long game battle against chemical weapons.

    Why not have a referendum every time the PM wants to launch a missile ?

    Partisan bollocks for the Corbyn party.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Matt Dathan - @matt_dathan: And now Jeremy Corbyn demands to see " incontrovertible evidence" that Russia was behind the Skripal attack.
    He'll be accused of playing into the Kremlin's hands again.... @MarrShow

    It's odd, as he has stated before, a month ago, that evidence pointed to it being highly likely to be Russia. Why is he seemingly going down the route of demanding unrealistically incontrovertible proof now, and undermining his previous statement? Nothing about sonething so clandestine could be proven incontrovertibly.

    We all know he is safe as houses, but he seems to be undercutting his previous acceptance of the probable position if these quotes are correct.

    Id almost go conspiracy theory and say he wants a row focused on him again for some reason. The action in Syria is not very popular, so he wants more hocus on him so people catch his stance on that?
    And this is after he has had the top secret security briefings where the spooks will lay out even more evidence that us plebs aren’t allowed to know about.
    Their pack of lies .........LOL
    You entirely discount all information from our intelligence apparatus?

    More pressingly, Corbyn already said evidence showed it was highly likely to be Russia, so he is not discounting their information, in which case what has changed in the last month to make him doubt his position?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,192
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    TGOHF said:

    Let’s face it - a commons vote would have been more about Maomentum and Nats signalling virtue rather than the long game battle against chemical weapons.

    Why not have a referendum every time the PM wants to launch a missile ?

    Partisan bollocks for the Corbyn party.

    In fairness there would have been grandstanding from the other side as well. But even though in this instance I don't know that doing something will achieve anything more than doing nothing, some people have overreacted as to the outrageousness of not going through parliament. It is following a lot more precedent to not do it than to do it.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    I appreciate them mixing up the bar chart formula
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,854
    edited April 2018
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Matt Dathan - @matt_dathan: And now Jeremy Corbyn demands to see " incontrovertible evidence" that Russia was behind the Skripal attack.
    He'll be accused of playing into the Kremlin's hands again.... @MarrShow

    It's odd, as he has stated before, a month ago, that evidence pointed to it being highly likely to be Russia. Why is he seemingly going down the route of demanding unrealistically incontrovertible proof now, and undermining his previous statement? Nothing about sonething so clandestine could be proven incontrovertibly.

    We all know he is safe as houses, but he seems to be undercutting his previous acceptance of the probable position if these quotes are correct.

    Id almost go conspiracy theory and say he wants a row focused on him again for some reason. The action in Syria is not very popular, so he wants more hocus on him so people catch his stance on that?
    And this is after he has had the top secret security briefings where the spooks will lay out even more evidence that us plebs aren’t allowed to know about.
    Their pack of lies .........LOL
    You entirely discount all information from our intelligence apparatus?

    More pressingly, Corbyn already said evidence showed it was highly likely to be Russia, so he is not discounting their information, in which case what has changed in the last month to make him doubt his position?
    I am cynical given their past record of lying. Old granny taught me you can trust a thief but you can never trust a liar. They have form and will come out with exactly what is required.
    PS: Corbyn is just as big a diddy as May, I would not trust either of them.
    PPS: Given they don't act against the despots they make money with etc , we were only bombing Assad because he was Russia's pal and we are too scared to bomb them.
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    JackW said:

    kle4 said:

    What did Theresa May have to fear from the British parliament?

    She might have lost. Even if she didn't it would have been nothing but grandstanding. And the public don't forgive leaders for military escapades even if they get parliamentary approval. So she had nothing to gain by consulting them, if she felt action was the right choice.
    I think we can be pretty sure the whips told her she might well lose a vote.
    I think not.

    May is risk averse when in comes to high profile political drama. She dodged the general election debates and doesn't perform well under public scrutiny. In such circumstances she's stiff and lacks political empathy.

    In my view she felt the window for House of Commons scrutiny was narrow enough for her to dodge the parliamentary bullet. The government would have comfortably won a vote with a substantial number of Labour MP's voting with the government or abstaining.
    Totally agree.If she can by pass parliament as with Brexit she will.Can not blame her.However it is upto parliament to take back some control if it wants to However I will not be holding my breath.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    kle4 said:

    On topic, I still hadn't appreciated that, despite London, it might not be as brilliant a night in the locals for Labour . The Tories have gone the Jezza pre 2017 route of intense expectations management.

    The collapse of UKIP will flatter the Tories.

    Their best night is:

    * Less than 100 losses, and the loss of no more than 2 councils in London
    * 80 gains from UKIP
    * No net losses to Labour (helped by UKIP voters)
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    edited April 2018
    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Matt Dathan - @matt_dathan: And now Jeremy Corbyn demands to see " incontrovertible evidence" that Russia was behind the Skripal attack.
    He'll be accused of playing into the Kremlin's hands again.... @MarrShow

    It's odd, as he has stated before, a month ago, that evidence pointed to it being highly likely to be Russia. Why is he seemingly going down the route of demanding unrealistically incontrovertible proof now, and undermining his previous statement? Nothing about sonething so clandestine could be proven incontrovertibly.

    We all know he is safe as houses, but he seems to be undercutting his previous acceptance of the probable position if these quotes are correct.

    Id almost go conspiracy theory and say he wants a row focused on him again for some reason. The action in Syria is not very popular, so he wants more hocus on him so people catch his stance on that?
    And this is after he has had the top secret security briefings where the spooks will lay out even more evidence that us plebs aren’t allowed to know about.
    Their pack of lies .........LOL
    Mg our spooks are beyond repute.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Off for a bit now but would reiterate that those casually into F1 should watch the highlights on Channel 4 (think it starts in just over an hour). For an obviously spoiler-laden race analysis, my latest blog's up here:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/china-post-race-analysis-2018.html
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,854
    Yorkcity said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Matt Dathan - @matt_dathan: And now Jeremy Corbyn demands to see " incontrovertible evidence" that Russia was behind the Skripal attack.
    He'll be accused of playing into the Kremlin's hands again.... @MarrShow

    It's odd, as he has stated before, a month ago, that evidence pointed to it being highly likely to be Russia. Why is he seemingly going down the route of demanding unrealistically incontrovertible proof now, and undermining his previous statement? Nothing about sonething so clandestine could be proven incontrovertibly.

    We all know he is safe as houses, but he seems to be undercutting his previous acceptance of the probable position if these quotes are correct.

    Id almost go conspiracy theory and say he wants a row focused on him again for some reason. The action in Syria is not very popular, so he wants more hocus on him so people catch his stance on that?
    And this is after he has had the top secret security briefings where the spooks will lay out even more evidence that us plebs aren’t allowed to know about.
    Their pack of lies .........LOL
    Mg our spooks are beyond repute.
    Paragons of virtue
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Yorkcity said:

    JackW said:

    kle4 said:

    What did Theresa May have to fear from the British parliament?

    She might have lost. Even if she didn't it would have been nothing but grandstanding. And the public don't forgive leaders for military escapades even if they get parliamentary approval. So she had nothing to gain by consulting them, if she felt action was the right choice.
    I think we can be pretty sure the whips told her she might well lose a vote.
    I think not.

    May is risk averse when in comes to high profile political drama. She dodged the general election debates and doesn't perform well under public scrutiny. In such circumstances she's stiff and lacks political empathy.

    In my view she felt the window for House of Commons scrutiny was narrow enough for her to dodge the parliamentary bullet. The government would have comfortably won a vote with a substantial number of Labour MP's voting with the government or abstaining.
    Totally agree.If she can by pass parliament as with Brexit she will.Can not blame her.However it is upto parliament to take back some control if it wants to However I will not be holding my breath.
    Politically avoiding HoC scrutiny it is mistake on different levels :

    1. The voters disapprove significantly of sidelining parliament and it provides one of the few sticks that Jezza has to attack her.

    2. The PM would be able to expose the Jezzbollah weakness at a moment of maximum scrutiny.

    3. It is a failure of leadership to be unwilling to defend a military intervention when servicemen (albeit only a small number) are in action.



  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    malcolmg said:

    Yorkcity said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Matt Dathan - @matt_dathan: And now Jeremy Corbyn demands to see " incontrovertible evidence" that Russia was behind the Skripal attack.
    He'll be accused of playing into the Kremlin's hands again.... @MarrShow

    It's odd, as he has stated before, a month ago, that evidence pointed to it being highly likely to be Russia. Why is he seemingly going down the route of demanding unrealistically incontrovertible proof now, and undermining his previous statement? Nothing about sonething so clandestine could be proven incontrovertibly.

    We all know he is safe as houses, but he seems to be undercutting his previous acceptance of the probable position if these quotes are correct.

    Id almost go conspiracy theory and say he wants a row focused on him again for some reason. The action in Syria is not very popular, so he wants more hocus on him so people catch his stance on that?
    And this is after he has had the top secret security briefings where the spooks will lay out even more evidence that us plebs aren’t allowed to know about.
    Their pack of lies .........LOL
    Mg our spooks are beyond repute.
    Paragons of virtue
    Much like distinguished Ayrshire turnip oligarchs ....

    Do you use chemical agents on yours crops. I think the nation should be told .... :sunglasses:
This discussion has been closed.