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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If Bercow does stand down then Lindsay Hoyle, surely, will be

SystemSystem Posts: 6,389
edited May 10 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If Bercow does stand down then Lindsay Hoyle, surely, will be his successor

With John Bercow attending the funeral of ex-speaker, Michael Martin, it was down to deputy, Lindsay Hoyle to handle yesterday’s PMQs and the above clip shows what a positive reception he got.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 4,518
    1st
  • RobDRobD Posts: 33,605
    2nd
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 12,252
    edited May 10
    FPT:

    ydoethur said:

    There’s a certain type of Remain voter, whom you possibly exemplify, who finds it unfathomable that we cannot execute Brexit on our own terms. Facing up to reality seems to be even more painful for them than for arch Brexiteers. National humiliation awaits and you’d better get used it it.

    No William. This is not about the terms. This is about the fact we have lost. And with respect, you are the one who seems to find that simple truth unfathomable. And I would add that misguided abuse and/or wilful misunderstanding of posters who point this out merely demeans you.
    I’m not the one talking about “UDI all out war” with the EU. This is just bovine jingoism.
    No William, again. I said that that was what they seemed to want. I am not saying that is what I want. I would be stupid if I did want that and unlike the negotiating team of the EU I am not stupid.

    Have you ever wondered why people hold you in such contempt? You, and Bromptonaut, and ScottP, who are apparently unable to read plain English and resort to nasty personal abuse when your errors are pointed out - well, bluntly the three of you don't add to the quality of discussion.

    (And also, you keep obsessing about Brexit which is (a) boring and (b) going to happen whether we like it or not. Can't you take an interest in normal matters like AV and the importance of different pizza toppings?)
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 1,642
    Threedom!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 12,252
    edited May 10
    geoffw said:

    Threedom!

    Sorry Geoff, beat you to it...

    And with that, since the conversation with Mr Glenn is tedious and clearly going to be unproductive as he doesn't want to listen to anything that contradicts his views, and I have a busy day tomorrow, good night.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 23,000
    "Five Star and League: Italy populist leaders close to government deal"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44066711
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 68,320
    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,323
    edited May 10
    ydoethur said:

    FPT:

    ydoethur said:

    There’s a certain type of Remain voter, whom you possibly exemplify, who finds it unfathomable that we cannot execute Brexit on our own terms. Facing up to reality seems to be even more painful for them than for arch Brexiteers. National humiliation awaits and you’d better get used it it.

    No William. This is not about the terms. This is about the fact we have lost. And with respect, you are the one who seems to find that simple truth unfathomable. And I would add that misguided abuse and/or wilful misunderstanding of posters who point this out merely demeans you.
    I’m not the one talking about “UDI all out war” with the EU. This is just bovine jingoism.
    No William, again. I said that that was what they seemed to want. I am not saying that is what I want. I would be stupid if I did want that and unlike the negotiating team of the EU I am not stupid.

    Have you ever wondered why people hold you in such contempt? You, and Bromptonaut, and ScottP, who are apparently unable to read plain English and resort to nasty personal abuse when your errors are pointed out - well, bluntly the three of you don't add to the quality of discussion.

    (And also, you keep obsessing about Brexit which is (a) boring and (b) going to happen whether we like it or not. Can't you take an interest in normal matters like AV and the importance of different pizza toppings?)
    Ignore him William, stick to your guns! It's good to have a range of views on here from your extreme Remaniac to the head-banging hard brexiteers (though the latter seem to have gone a bit quiet of late! :confused:
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 21,542
    FPT
    ydoethur said:

    Edit - of course you do typify the attitude of the EU, who also apparently can't get their admittedly rather empty heads round the fact we're leaving and the world won't actually end as a result however painful for both of us in the short term. What I can't understand is why they're so anxious to inflict a punishment beating on us that not only dramatically increases the risks to themselves but effectively rules out the possibility of us ever rejoining.

    The EU treat the 2016 referendum with the lack of reverence it deserves. The negotiations don't get to be carried out in an atmosphere of subservience to the wishes of people who voted for Brexit, which is itself negotiable and not a law of physics.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,444

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    Grammar schools are free at the point of use, unlike public schools
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 21,542
    edited May 10
    ydoethur said:

    (And also, you keep obsessing about Brexit which is (a) boring and (b) going to happen whether we like it or not. Can't you take an interest in normal matters like AV and the importance of different pizza toppings?)

    I have a comment to make on Hawaiian pizza. I recently discovered that in Prezzo it is called a 'Tropicana' which I found even more offensive than the pineapple.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 12,252

    ydoethur said:

    FPT:

    ydoethur said:

    There’s a certain type of Remain voter, whom you possibly exemplify, who finds it unfathomable that we cannot execute Brexit on our own terms. Facing up to reality seems to be even more painful for them than for arch Brexiteers. National humiliation awaits and you’d better get used it it.

    No William. This is not about the terms. This is about the fact we have lost. And with respect, you are the one who seems to find that simple truth unfathomable. And I would add that misguided abuse and/or wilful misunderstanding of posters who point this out merely demeans you.
    I’m not the one talking about “UDI all out war” with the EU. This is just bovine jingoism.
    No William, again. I said that that was what they seemed to want. I am not saying that is what I want. I would be stupid if I did want that and unlike the negotiating team of the EU I am not stupid.

    Have you ever wondered why people hold you in such contempt? You, and Bromptonaut, and ScottP, who are apparently unable to read plain English and resort to nasty personal abuse when your errors are pointed out - well, bluntly the three of you don't add to the quality of discussion.

    (And also, you keep obsessing about Brexit which is (a) boring and (b) going to happen whether we like it or not. Can't you take an interest in normal matters like AV and the importance of different pizza toppings?)
    Ignore him William, stick to your guns! It's good to have a range of views on here from your extreme Remaniac to the head-banging hard brexiteers (though the latter seem to have gone a bit quiet of late! :confounded:
    It's not his views I object to Ben, it's the way he puts them across. If he wishes to be incorrect, rude and patronising, that's also fine, but he can't simultaneously expect to be taken seriously.

    Nos da.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,323

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 9,116
    @TheScreamingEagles - I don't recall grammar schools being a central part of last year's GE.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,760
    edited May 10
    tlg86 said:

    @TheScreamingEagles - I don't recall grammar schools being a central part of last year's GE.

    Grammar schools are actually quite popular I think, it was the fox hunting and 'dementia tax' that did the Tories in.
    Edit: Their merits are debateable (In the truest sense of the word), but I think they're popular - particularly amongst the sort of demographic the Conservatives are targetting.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 3,670

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    Edit - of course you do typify the attitude of the EU, who also apparently can't get their admittedly rather empty heads round the fact we're leaving and the world won't actually end as a result however painful for both of us in the short term. What I can't understand is why they're so anxious to inflict a punishment beating on us that not only dramatically increases the risks to themselves but effectively rules out the possibility of us ever rejoining.

    The EU treat the 2016 referendum with the lack of reverence it deserves. The negotiations don't get to be carried out in an atmosphere of subservience to the wishes of people who voted for Brexit, which is itself negotiable and not a law of physics.
    The lack of reverence it deserves- wow. So 1975 was a load of bollocks too then presumably?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 68,320

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 21,542
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT:

    ydoethur said:

    There’s a certain type of Remain voter, whom you possibly exemplify, who finds it unfathomable that we cannot execute Brexit on our own terms. Facing up to reality seems to be even more painful for them than for arch Brexiteers. National humiliation awaits and you’d better get used it it.

    No William. This is not about the terms. This is about the fact we have lost. And with respect, you are the one who seems to find that simple truth unfathomable. And I would add that misguided abuse and/or wilful misunderstanding of posters who point this out merely demeans you.
    I’m not the one talking about “UDI all out war” with the EU. This is just bovine jingoism.
    No William, again. I said that that was what they seemed to want. I am not saying that is what I want. I would be stupid if I did want that and unlike the negotiating team of the EU I am not stupid.

    Have you ever wondered why people hold you in such contempt? You, and Bromptonaut, and ScottP, who are apparently unable to read plain English and resort to nasty personal abuse when your errors are pointed out - well, bluntly the three of you don't add to the quality of discussion.

    (And also, you keep obsessing about Brexit which is (a) boring and (b) going to happen whether we like it or not. Can't you take an interest in normal matters like AV and the importance of different pizza toppings?)
    Ignore him William, stick to your guns! It's good to have a range of views on here from your extreme Remaniac to the head-banging hard brexiteers (though the latter seem to have gone a bit quiet of late! :confounded:
    It's not his views I object to Ben, it's the way he puts them across. If he wishes to be incorrect, rude and patronising, that's also fine, but he can't simultaneously expect to be taken seriously.

    Nos da.
    Not for the first time you have expressed your own views about me by ascribing them to 'people'. That's fine, but you can't simultaneously pose as an arbiter of civility.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 68,320
    tlg86 said:

    @TheScreamingEagles - I don't recall grammar schools being a central part of last year's GE.

    It was swamped by fox hunting and the dementia tax.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,323

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 21,009
    John Bercow made it clear today that he has no intention of standing down voluntarily. If he’s going to go, his fingertips are going to have to be prised from the jambs.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,323

    John Bercow made it clear today that he has no intention of standing down voluntarily. If he’s going to go, his fingertips are going to have to be prised from the jambs.

    A bit like Tezza's, it seems.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 68,320

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 2,450

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    Getting rid of Grammar schools screwed intelligent poor kids
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,323

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    Just wait till Mcdonnell gets into number 11 - he'll find a more efficient way for those public school parents to experience (relative) financial hardship for the greater good! :wink:
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,760

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 68,320
    edited May 10
    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Nah, I can dance on a pinhead.

    One is funded directly by the government, the other isn't it.

    If I had my way I'd abolish the state sector, and give parents the money as vouchers for schools.

    Let private schools do what the state cannot do.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,323
    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 9,592
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,323

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Nah, I can dance on a pinhead.

    One is funded directly by the government, the other isn't it.

    If I had my way I'd abolish the state sector, and give parents the money as vouchers for schools.

    Let private schools do what the state cannot do.
    Interesting idea...but how would you bridge the gap between what the state was prepared to offfer in vouchers and what the private schools were preapared to accept in fees?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 21,009

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?
    People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

    The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 25,234
    It's extremely hard to dislike Lindsay Hoyle.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,323

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?
    People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

    The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.
    So you don't believe in equality of opportunity?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 68,320
    Roger said:
    The finest, Donald Maclean, Anthony Blunt, Guy Burgess, Kim Philby, and John Cairncross were known as the magnificent five.

    Honourable shout outs to Roger Hollis and Tom Driberg.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 22,617
    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    That is correct. I'm reluctant to argue that other people should not be able to enjoy the advantages that I enjoyed.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 25,234

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    Edit - of course you do typify the attitude of the EU, who also apparently can't get their admittedly rather empty heads round the fact we're leaving and the world won't actually end as a result however painful for both of us in the short term. What I can't understand is why they're so anxious to inflict a punishment beating on us that not only dramatically increases the risks to themselves but effectively rules out the possibility of us ever rejoining.

    The EU treat the 2016 referendum with the lack of reverence it deserves. The negotiations don't get to be carried out in an atmosphere of subservience to the wishes of people who voted for Brexit, which is itself negotiable and not a law of physics.
    And, such attitudes explain why I voted for Brexit and, also, why I'm rather proud to be British.

    We respect democracy results in this country.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,444

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.
    Not being to able to afford the fees screws poor children who want to get into public schools.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 22,617
    Roger said:
    A typical one.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 33,605
    edited May 10

    It's extremely hard to dislike Lindsay Hoyle.

    He seems like a jolly good egg.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 22,617

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    Just wait till Mcdonnell gets into number 11 - he'll find a more efficient way for those public school parents to experience (relative) financial hardship for the greater good! :wink:
    I'm sure he wood, though I think that the hardship would be absolute, not relative.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 25,234

    tlg86 said:

    @TheScreamingEagles - I don't recall grammar schools being a central part of last year's GE.

    It was swamped by fox hunting and the dementia tax.
    I remember being sent by Jim Messina's magic data machine to knock on the door of a solid Labour supporter in Southampton Test, and I got a hat-trick rant on all three.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 21,009

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?
    People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

    The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.
    So you don't believe in equality of opportunity?
    I believe in allowing people to spend money on what they like. I also believe in adequate state provision, setting the bar for “adequate” high.

    Would you restrict what food I can buy because I might choose to spend my money on expensive superfoods that are of superior nutritional content?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 33,605

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?
    People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

    The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.
    So you don't believe in equality of opportunity?
    I believe in allowing people to spend money on what they like. I also believe in adequate state provision, setting the bar for “adequate” high.

    Would you restrict what food I can buy because I might choose to spend my money on expensive superfoods that are of superior nutritional content?
    And it relieves pressure on state school. The parents of private school children are effectively paying twice.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 11,631
    I don't think Speaker B intends to go... So it will be whether Parliamentary authorities find that he did bully some members of his staff or not.

    If they do I imagine the PLP with withdraw their support for him and it'll be game over.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 22,617

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?
    People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

    The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.
    Even in an ideal world, I would not wish to make them redundant.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 9,116
    edited May 10
    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    I think it's hard to argue against grammar schools and support setting within comprehensives. Particularly when setting is used to dump 38 kids into top set maths.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 9,592
    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:
    A typical one.
    And are they typically led by a Nazi like Jack Straw?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,323

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?
    People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

    The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.
    So you don't believe in equality of opportunity?
    I believe in allowing people to spend money on what they like. I also believe in adequate state provision, setting the bar for “adequate” high.

    Would you restrict what food I can buy because I might choose to spend my money on expensive superfoods that are of superior nutritional content?
    Pah! that analogy is rubbish and you know it! No superfood was ever going to propel an utter numpty like Boris to Foreign Secretary but an Eton education just about managed it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,444

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?
    People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

    The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.
    So you don't believe in equality of opportunity?
    I believe in allowing people to spend money on what they like. I also believe in adequate state provision, setting the bar for “adequate” high.

    Would you restrict what food I can buy because I might choose to spend my money on expensive superfoods that are of superior nutritional content?
    Pah! that analogy is rubbish and you know it! No superfood was ever going to propel an utter numpty like Boris to Foreign Secretary but an Eton education just about managed it.
    What if you start "Eton" the aforementioned superfood? :lol:
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 1,231
    edited May 10
    Next year in Jerusalem - or perhaps Nicosia or Oslo if the bookies are to be believed!

    Bad night for the disapora voting bloc - no Poland, Russia or Romania in the final. And the Aussies qualified again. Seems the jury is continuing to have the desired effect! It's all about the music folks.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 21,009

    Pulpstar said:



    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?
    People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

    The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.
    So you don't believe in equality of opportunity?
    I believe in allowing people to spend money on what they like. I also believe in adequate state provision, setting the bar for “adequate” high.

    Would you restrict what food I can buy because I might choose to spend my money on expensive superfoods that are of superior nutritional content?
    Pah! that analogy is rubbish and you know it! No superfood was ever going to propel an utter numpty like Boris to Foreign Secretary but an Eton education just about managed it.
    With inadequate food you would starve.

    Your complaint seems to be that private education is much better than state education. The correct response to that fear is to improve state education not ban a superior product.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 2,764
    So the customs partnership is dead. Long live max fac.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6258797/brexit-theresa-may-max-fac-customs-union/
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 612
    AndyJS said:

    "Five Star and League: Italy populist leaders close to government deal"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44066711

    Will be very interesting to see how this works......or more likely doesn't work.....
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,323

    Pulpstar said:

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?
    People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

    The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.
    So you don't believe in equality of opportunity?
    I believe in allowing people to spend money on what they like. I also believe in adequate state provision, setting the bar for “adequate” high.

    Would you restrict what food I can buy because I might choose to spend my money on expensive superfoods that are of superior nutritional content?
    Pah! that analogy is rubbish and you know it! No superfood was ever going to propel an utter numpty like Boris to Foreign Secretary but an Eton education just about managed it.
    What if you start "Eton" the aforementioned superfood? :lol:
    Don't give up the day-job Sunil! :wink:
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,955
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    I think it's hard to argue against grammar schools and support setting within comprehensives. Particularly when setting is used to dump 38 kids into top set maths.
    Utter rubbish. Setting in comps works because you can move up sets if you improve.

    In the grammar system you are done for if you flunk at age 11.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,955
    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?
    People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

    The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.
    Even in an ideal world, I would not wish to make them redundant.
    Why not? If the state school was superb what would be the point of them?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 4,070
    brendan16 said:

    Next year in Jerusalem - or perhaps Nicosia or Oslo if the bookies are to be believed!

    Bad night for the disapora voting bloc - no Poland, Russia or Romania in the final. And the Aussies qualified again. Seems the jury is continuing to have the desired effect! It's all about the music folks.
    Technically Ron wins the internet, again:

  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 1,231
    edited May 10

    So the customs partnership is dead. Long live max fac.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6258797/brexit-theresa-may-max-fac-customs-union/

    Does Max factor have a trademark on the term Max fac?

    Is there any foundation to this story or is it just made up - another Brexit puff powder piece?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 9,116
    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

    I think it's hard to argue against grammar schools and support setting within comprehensives. Particularly when setting is used to dump 38 kids into top set maths.
    Utter rubbish. Setting in comps works because you can move up sets if you improve.

    In the grammar system you are done for if you flunk at age 11.
    The point I'm making is that in my case, I was put in a class of 38 to allow those on the C/D threshold to get smaller class sizes. Does that seem fair to you?
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,955
    GIN1138 said:

    I don't think Speaker B intends to go... So it will be whether Parliamentary authorities find that he did bully some members of his staff or not.

    If they do I imagine the PLP with withdraw their support for him and it'll be game over.

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Nah, I can dance on a pinhead.

    One is funded directly by the government, the other isn't it.

    If I had my way I'd abolish the state sector, and give parents the money as vouchers for schools.

    Let private schools do what the state cannot do.
    Interesting idea...but how would you bridge the gap between what the state was prepared to offfer in vouchers and what the private schools were preapared to accept in fees?
    Correct. It’s a bollocks idea.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,589
    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?
    People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

    The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.
    Even in an ideal world, I would not wish to make them redundant.
    Why not? If the state school was superb what would be the point of them?
    You mean you think it is about the quality of the education?

    Think again.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,955
    tlg86 said:

    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

    I think it's hard to argue against grammar schools and support setting within comprehensives. Particularly when setting is used to dump 38 kids into top set maths.
    Utter rubbish. Setting in comps works because you can move up sets if you improve.

    In the grammar system you are done for if you flunk at age 11.
    The point I'm making is that in my case, I was put in a class of 38 to allow those on the C/D threshold to get smaller class sizes. Does that seem fair to you?
    No, not at all. But it makes another point, not the one you were originally trying to make.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 9,116
    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

    I think it's hard to argue against grammar schools and support setting within comprehensives. Particularly when setting is used to dump 38 kids into top set maths.
    Utter rubbish. Setting in comps works because you can move up sets if you improve.

    In the grammar system you are done for if you flunk at age 11.
    The point I'm making is that in my case, I was put in a class of 38 to allow those on the C/D threshold to get smaller class sizes. Does that seem fair to you?
    No, not at all. But it makes another point, not the one you were originally trying to make.
    Leaving aside the cynical use of setting, it's still segregation. And I seem to remember kids moving up, but not moving down.

    Personally the bigger problem I experienced was the lack of a sixth form. My secondary school wasn't set up to get you on the right path in terms of picking A-Levels.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,955
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?
    People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

    The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.
    So you don't believe in equality of opportunity?
    I believe in allowing people to spend money on what they like. I also believe in adequate state provision, setting the bar for “adequate” high.

    Would you restrict what food I can buy because I might choose to spend my money on expensive superfoods that are of superior nutritional content?
    And it relieves pressure on state school. The parents of private school children are effectively paying twice.
    What it actually means in parts of London that the secondary schools are starved of middle class children, and become ghettos for the poor. See Wimbledon SW19 and Southfields SW18 for further details.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,813
    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    I think it's hard to argue against grammar schools and support setting within comprehensives. Particularly when setting is used to dump 38 kids into top set maths.
    Utter rubbish. Setting in comps works because you can move up sets if you improve.

    In the grammar system you are done for if you flunk at age 11.
    Absolutely. You can also be good at maths and bad at English and not have to go to a second rate school.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,955

    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?
    People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

    The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.
    Even in an ideal world, I would not wish to make them redundant.
    Why not? If the state school was superb what would be the point of them?
    You mean you think it is about the quality of the education?

    Think again.
    I wouldn’t be so bold as to imply anything else...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,323

    Pulpstar said:




    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?
    People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

    The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.
    So you don't believe in equality of opportunity?
    I believe in allowing people to spend money on what they like. I also believe in adequate state provision, setting the bar for “adequate” high.

    Would you restrict what food I can buy because I might choose to spend my money on expensive superfoods that are of superior nutritional content?
    Pah! that analogy is rubbish and you know it! No superfood was ever going to propel an utter numpty like Boris to Foreign Secretary but an Eton education just about managed it.
    With inadequate food you would starve.

    Your complaint seems to be that private education is much better than state education. The correct response to that fear is to improve state education not ban a superior product.
    Fair point, you've got me there.

    Average p.a. cost per secondary scool pupil = £13,000 (private); £6,300 (state). Now, can anyone think of how we might bring state education up to the same standard as private?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 21,542

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    Edit - of course you do typify the attitude of the EU, who also apparently can't get their admittedly rather empty heads round the fact we're leaving and the world won't actually end as a result however painful for both of us in the short term. What I can't understand is why they're so anxious to inflict a punishment beating on us that not only dramatically increases the risks to themselves but effectively rules out the possibility of us ever rejoining.

    The EU treat the 2016 referendum with the lack of reverence it deserves. The negotiations don't get to be carried out in an atmosphere of subservience to the wishes of people who voted for Brexit, which is itself negotiable and not a law of physics.
    And, such attitudes explain why I voted for Brexit and, also, why I'm rather proud to be British.

    We respect democracy results in this country.
    But presumably another reason you voted for Brexit is that you don't think other countries' democratic results should impose any obligations upon us. It's the same in reverse.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 9,116
    Anazina said:

    What it actually means in parts of London that the secondary schools are starved of middle class children, and become ghettos for the poor. See Wimbledon SW19 and Southfields SW18 for further details.

    My idea for London is to abolish the catchment area (I think that's done by the London Oratory anyway). Given the transport links, I don't see why a kid in Bermondsey shouldn't be able to go to high performing secondary school in a posher part of town. It would have to be a lottery, but I think it could work.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,955
    tlg86 said:

    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

    I think it's hard to argue against grammar schools and support setting within comprehensives. Particularly when setting is used to dump 38 kids into top set maths.
    Utter rubbish. Setting in comps works because you can move up sets if you improve.

    In the grammar system you are done for if you flunk at age 11.
    The point I'm making is that in my case, I was put in a class of 38 to allow those on the C/D threshold to get smaller class sizes. Does that seem fair to you?
    No, not at all. But it makes another point, not the one you were originally trying to make.
    Leaving aside the cynical use of setting, it's still segregation. And I seem to remember kids moving up, but not moving down.

    Personally the bigger problem I experienced was the lack of a sixth form. My secondary school wasn't set up to get you on the right path in terms of picking A-Levels.
    It’s streaming. The point is it’s not fixed. The cut off point at 11 under the grammar system condemns children when they are still in short trousers.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,323
    brendan16 said:

    So the customs partnership is dead. Long live max fac.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6258797/brexit-theresa-may-max-fac-customs-union/

    Does Max factor have a trademark on the term Max fac?

    Is there any foundation to this story or is it just made up - another Brexit puff powder piece?
    :lol: Excellent! - you can give up the day job!
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 1,955
    tlg86 said:

    Anazina said:

    What it actually means in parts of London that the secondary schools are starved of middle class children, and become ghettos for the poor. See Wimbledon SW19 and Southfields SW18 for further details.

    My idea for London is to abolish the catchment area (I think that's done by the London Oratory anyway). Given the transport links, I don't see why a kid in Bermondsey shouldn't be able to go to high performing secondary school in a posher part of town. It would have to be a lottery, but I think it could work.
    That’s an interesting idea. Hmm.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 10,326

    tlg86 said:

    @TheScreamingEagles - I don't recall grammar schools being a central part of last year's GE.

    It was swamped by fox hunting and the dementia tax.
    ...to knock on the door of a solid Labour supporter in Southampton Test, and I got a hat-trick rant on all three.
    Ha! Snap.

    I was knocking up in that constituency on election day. It became quite obvious quite quickly that we were not going to win that seat.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 23,000
    Mortimer said:

    tlg86 said:

    @TheScreamingEagles - I don't recall grammar schools being a central part of last year's GE.

    It was swamped by fox hunting and the dementia tax.
    ...to knock on the door of a solid Labour supporter in Southampton Test, and I got a hat-trick rant on all three.
    Ha! Snap.

    I was knocking up in that constituency on election day. It became quite obvious quite quickly that we were not going to win that seat.
    Itchen swung to the Tories at the local elections.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 10,326

    So the customs partnership is dead. Long live max fac.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6258797/brexit-theresa-may-max-fac-customs-union/

    It was always a too clever by half civil service wheeze that wouldn't have worked in reality. I'm glad that No. 10 has seen the light.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 10,326
    AndyJS said:

    Mortimer said:

    tlg86 said:

    @TheScreamingEagles - I don't recall grammar schools being a central part of last year's GE.

    It was swamped by fox hunting and the dementia tax.
    ...to knock on the door of a solid Labour supporter in Southampton Test, and I got a hat-trick rant on all three.
    Ha! Snap.

    I was knocking up in that constituency on election day. It became quite obvious quite quickly that we were not going to win that seat.
    Itchen swung to the Tories at the local elections.
    Traditionally a more Tory seat, though, IIRC?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 20,194

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    One third of the kids at Eton are funded either from the legacies left by King Henry and the Duke of Newcastle or by the generosity of many hundreds of members of the wider Etonian community.

    That’s 400 poor kids “being screwed” to the tune of £12m per year
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 1,231

    brendan16 said:

    So the customs partnership is dead. Long live max fac.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6258797/brexit-theresa-may-max-fac-customs-union/

    Does Max factor have a trademark on the term Max fac?

    Is there any foundation to this story or is it just made up - another Brexit puff powder piece?
    :lol: Excellent! - you can give up the day job!
    Sorry but I am finding it as hard to take it all seriously given the EU doesn't see either option as being workable anyway. But we had free movement and customs controls between NI/UK and the Irish free state/Republic for seventy years from 1922 to 1992 so I am sure a way forward will be found.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 20,194

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?
    Equality of opportunity =/= equality of outcome

    But the best schools should be needs blind. The state should be willing to fund scholarships for the brightest and the best
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 3,257
    Mortimer said:

    So the customs partnership is dead. Long live max fac.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6258797/brexit-theresa-may-max-fac-customs-union/

    It was always a too clever by half civil service wheeze that wouldn't have worked in reality. I'm glad that No. 10 has seen the light.
    Don't count your chickens. Sun spin.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,760


    Fair point, you've got me there.

    Average p.a. cost per secondary scool pupil = £13,000 (private); £6,300 (state). Now, can anyone think of how we might bring state education up to the same standard as private?

    I maintain my parent's school fees went on the swimming pool & sports centre being built, the results of our cohort and the following ones with the superior facilities were much the same however - so I do not think money is the issue wrt academic results.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 10,326
    Barnesian said:

    Mortimer said:

    So the customs partnership is dead. Long live max fac.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6258797/brexit-theresa-may-max-fac-customs-union/

    It was always a too clever by half civil service wheeze that wouldn't have worked in reality. I'm glad that No. 10 has seen the light.
    Don't count your chickens. Sun spin.
    I've said from the start it wouldn't work. I'm immensely relaxed that it will be dropped as a proposal.

    No 10 have remembered that they're in the driving seat, as the executive.

    But also that the constraints on their remaining the executive is in the hands of the largest party in the elected chamber of the commons.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 1,297
    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    You're allowed to oppose unfairness that you benefited from.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,323
    Charles said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    One third of the kids at Eton are funded either from the legacies left by King Henry and the Duke of Newcastle or by the generosity of many hundreds of members of the wider Etonian community.

    That’s 400 poor kids “being screwed” to the tune of £12m per year
    That sounds like complete rubbish Charles.

    Eton's own website says "During the 2015/16 academic year 273 boys (21% of the school) will receive means-tested bursaries averaging a 66% reduction in school fees, with 73 of those pupils paying no fees at all."

    But those are not 'poor kids'; a 66% reduction still leaves over £13k to find p.a. (that's half the average UK salary before tax.) Even those paying no fees at all will have had to pass the common entrance exams (https://www.etoncollege.com/KSpapers.aspx) which a state primary education is not going to set you up for.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 3,257
    Mortimer said:

    Barnesian said:

    Mortimer said:

    So the customs partnership is dead. Long live max fac.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6258797/brexit-theresa-may-max-fac-customs-union/

    It was always a too clever by half civil service wheeze that wouldn't have worked in reality. I'm glad that No. 10 has seen the light.
    Don't count your chickens. Sun spin.
    I've said from the start it wouldn't work. I'm immensely relaxed that it will be dropped as a proposal.

    No 10 have remembered that they're in the driving seat, as the executive.

    But also that the constraints on their remaining the executive is in the hands of the largest party in the elected chamber of the commons.
    I wouldn't rely on that report in the Sun.

    I suspect that a majority in the Commons is in favour of some sort of customs union and this "customs partnership" might be a way to get Commons approval and possibly EU approval. The Max Dev MPs are in a minority in the Commons and in Cabinet.

    Mrs May future is indeed in the hands of the largest party in the elected chamber of the Commons but I think she is secure. I can't see a majority of Tory MPs preferring either Boris or Moggsy over Mrs May. Can you?

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,028
    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    1. Do grammar schools benefit bright, but poor, students? Probably yes.
    2. Do grammar schools have a negative impact on the results of the next 50% of students below the brightest 20%? Probably yes.

    Does 1 outweigh 2? Well, we need to see the numbers to know the answer.

    Any discussion based around feelings rather than data must be discarded.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 10,326
    Barnesian said:

    Mortimer said:

    Barnesian said:

    Mortimer said:

    So the customs partnership is dead. Long live max fac.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6258797/brexit-theresa-may-max-fac-customs-union/

    It was always a too clever by half civil service wheeze that wouldn't have worked in reality. I'm glad that No. 10 has seen the light.
    Don't count your chickens. Sun spin.
    I've said from the start it wouldn't work. I'm immensely relaxed that it will be dropped as a proposal.

    No 10 have remembered that they're in the driving seat, as the executive.

    But also that the constraints on their remaining the executive is in the hands of the largest party in the elected chamber of the commons.
    I wouldn't rely on that report in the Sun.

    I suspect that a majority in the Commons is in favour of some sort of customs union and this "customs partnership" might be a way to get Commons approval and possibly EU approval. The Max Dev MPs are in a minority in the Commons and in Cabinet.

    Mrs May future is indeed in the hands of the largest party in the elected chamber of the Commons but I think she is secure. I can't see a majority of Tory MPs preferring either Boris or Moggsy over Mrs May. Can you?

    I'm not relying on the report; I'm relying on my own critical faculties. It won't work, and it isn't supported by the people who have the ability to veto it.

    I don't think there are the numbers for a customs union in the commons myself; there have been two votes on it already and the Govt have won both. But it is frankly irrelevant what there is a majority in the commons for, when the executive negotiates international treaties.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,028
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    I think it's hard to argue against grammar schools and support setting within comprehensives. Particularly when setting is used to dump 38 kids into top set maths.
    I think the arguments against grammar schools are two fold:

    1. People who 'have a bad day' on 11 Plus Day are permanently disadvantaged. The statistics on the number of people who went from Secondary Moderns to University were staggeringly small.

    2. The results for people in the 21 to 100th percentile are significantly worse in grammar school areas than in comprehensive areas.

    Now, a big increase in the grades of the poor but bright is probably a price worth paying for a small worsening in the next 80%. But if its only a negligible increase, and the price is dramatically worse outcomes for the next 80%, then it isn't.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 10,326
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    1. Do grammar schools benefit bright, but poor, students? Probably yes.
    2. Do grammar schools have a negative impact on the results of the next 50% of students below the brightest 20%? Probably yes.

    Does 1 outweigh 2? Well, we need to see the numbers to know the answer.

    Any discussion based around feelings rather than data must be discarded.
    My grammar school education taught me to question the veracity of data produced by those with vested interests :)
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 3,257
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

    The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.
    I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

    Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

    I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.
    1. Do grammar schools benefit bright, but poor, students? Probably yes.
    2. Do grammar schools have a negative impact on the results of the next 50% of students below the brightest 20%? Probably yes.

    Does 1 outweigh 2? Well, we need to see the numbers to know the answer.

    Any discussion based around feelings rather than data must be discarded.
    1. Do private schools benefit rich, but dim, students? Probably yes.
    2 Do private schools have a negative impact on the results of the next 50% of students below the richest 5%? Probably yes.

    1.and 2. are both undesirable so there is no balance to be assessed.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 20,194

    Charles said:

    Theresa May must go now.

    She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

    What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?
    They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

    Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

    Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.
    By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

    One third of the kids at Eton are funded either from the legacies left by King Henry and the Duke of Newcastle or by the generosity of many hundreds of members of the wider Etonian community.

    That’s 400 poor kids “being screwed” to the tune of £12m per year
    That sounds like complete rubbish Charles.

    Eton's own website says "During the 2015/16 academic year 273 boys (21% of the school) will receive means-tested bursaries averaging a 66% reduction in school fees, with 73 of those pupils paying no fees at all."

    But those are not 'poor kids'; a 66% reduction still leaves over £13k to find p.a. (that's half the average UK salary before tax.) Even those paying no fees at all will have had to pass the common entrance exams (https://www.etoncollege.com/KSpapers.aspx) which a state primary education is not going to set you up for.
    Means tested bursaries are the ones from the Eton community. They don’t include the King’s Scholars (70 boys funded by King Henry) the Newcastle Prizes etc

    (The figures were from my own time so vary a bit year on year)
This discussion has been closed.