"Meanwhile, Britain's Northern Secretary Karen Bradley has said there will be no new cameras on the border on the island of Ireland after Brexit."
I had to read that twice as I know there is supposed to be a north-south divide in England but I hadn't realised that the govt had appointed a Secretary of State for The North!
It's a UK-wide full alignment option but for a limited (indefinite, could be quite long) period. Would remove some of the pressure of uncertainty on businesses for sure.
Para 49 says "maintain full alignment with those rules of the internal market and customs union which support north-south cooperation, the all-island economy and the Good Friday Agreement."
That's internal market as well as customs union.
No doubt it will be renamed "common market arrangement" and "customs arrangement" or somesuch to avoid the arch Brexiteers jump out of the slowly heating pan.
I think May should go for full SM and full CU and call it "The Two Fingers To The Eurocrats Diamond Hard Brexit Arrangement".
Should suit all parties and keep the frogs happily submerged.
It may be that privatisation helped passenger numbers grow, at the same time I seem to remember being a motorist under Labour became much more expensive than it was under the Tories, that will have changed the game for railways as well.
Gordon Brown's bloody fuel price escalator. That was an absolute killer back in the late 2000s.
Which is my point, that graph is always used as an example of why privatisation has been a game changer, but it takes into account absolutely no external factors or the cost increases for other modes of transport.
House prices/patterns of urbanisation also a big factor I think. Commuters into London for instance really don't have much choice.
Indeed. There is no competition down here for home counties commuters either from other rail companies or other transport modes. Rail is the one and only viable option for 9-5 workers – it's a "take it or leave it" situation.
An old classmate is currently doing a daily commute from Eastleigh to Redbridge. Sounds brutal.
Wow, yes, horrific and also very expensive. Add the price of the commute to a mortgage and he might be able to buy in East London!
"Meanwhile, Britain's Northern Secretary Karen Bradley has said there will be no new cameras on the border on the island of Ireland after Brexit."
I had to read that twice as I know there is supposed to be a north-south divide in England but I hadn't realised that the govt had appointed a Secretary of State for The North!
I take the Swiss railways extensively and they are cheaper than what I used to pay in the UK and they are more punctual. The Swiss railways company is publicly owned, it is efficient and makes an annual profit. I don't see why a similar system couldn't be replicated in the UK.
Because it never is. Experience in the UK is that nationalised railways provide a poorer service. This has been the way ever since nationalisation.
Of course Swiss trains do only 19 billion passenger km per year compared to 66 billion done by UK trains
It may be that privatisation helped passenger numbers grow, at the same time I seem to remember being a motorist under Labour became much more expensive than it was under the Tories, that will have changed the game for railways as well.
Gordon Brown's bloody fuel price escalator. That was an absolute killer back in the late 2000s.
Which is my point, that graph is always used as an example of why privatisation has been a game changer, but it takes into account absolutely no external factors or the cost increases for other modes of transport.
House prices/patterns of urbanisation also a big factor I think. Commuters into London for instance really don't have much choice.
Indeed. There is no competition down here for home counties commuters either from other rail companies or other transport modes. Rail is the one and only viable option for 9-5 workers – it's a "take it or leave it" situation.
An old classmate is currently doing a daily commute from Eastleigh to Redbridge. Sounds brutal.
Wow, yes, horrific and also very expensive. Add the price of the commute to a mortgage and he might be able to buy in East London!
That is intentionally or otherwise very funny and also telling. Everything is seen through the prism of wanting, nay, needing to be in London!!!??
I thought that was a huge part of the problem we face here in the UK!?
Edit: ENTIRELY likely I have missed the irony of your post!!
It may be that privatisation helped passenger numbers grow, at the same time I seem to remember being a motorist under Labour became much more expensive than it was under the Tories, that will have changed the game for railways as well.
Gordon Brown's bloody fuel price escalator. That was an absolute killer back in the late 2000s.
Which is my point, that graph is always used as an example of why privatisation has been a game changer, but it takes into account absolutely no external factors or the cost increases for other modes of transport.
House prices/patterns of urbanisation also a big factor I think. Commuters into London for instance really don't have much choice.
Indeed. There is no competition down here for home counties commuters either from other rail companies or other transport modes. Rail is the one and only viable option for 9-5 workers – it's a "take it or leave it" situation.
An old classmate is currently doing a daily commute from Eastleigh to Redbridge. Sounds brutal.
Wow, yes, horrific and also very expensive. Add the price of the commute to a mortgage and he might be able to buy in East London!
I'm guessing he is seeing how it goes, he's only just started and would have to sell his Eastleigh flat.
Senior Hamas figure admits 50 of 62 Gaza border deaths were terror group members - JC
Peaceful Palestinian demonstration !
I do not think it was a peaceful demonstration .Nevertheless the response by the Israel Army has correctly been questioned .
Do you think it was appropriate ?
I think killing 60 and wounding over 2000 is what Israel calls an appropriate response to a few rocks and burning tyres.
Those who try to defend it imagine a protest by Anti Capitaltsts in London where some rocks were thrown at police. Would it be acceptable to kill 60 and wound over 2000?
It's a UK-wide full alignment option but for a limited (indefinite, could be quite long) period. Would remove some of the pressure of uncertainty on businesses for sure.
Para 49 says "maintain full alignment with those rules of the internal market and customs union which support north-south cooperation, the all-island economy and the Good Friday Agreement."
That's internal market as well as customs union.
No doubt it will be renamed "common market arrangement" and "customs arrangement" or somesuch to avoid the arch Brexiteers jump out of the slowly heating pan.
I think May should go for full SM and full CU and call it "The Two Fingers To The Eurocrats Diamond Hard Brexit Arrangement".
Should suit all parties and keep the frogs happily submerged.
As discussed, for six of the last ten years ECML was in PUBLIC hands and was run extremely well. So many of the journeys you made would have been under public ownership.
And that was all on the back of private investment. There was no investment of public money into ECML whilst it was in public hands. It was and is a totally unsustainable situation.
I take the Swiss railways extensively and they are cheaper than what I used to pay in the UK and they are more punctual. The Swiss railways company is publicly owned, it is efficient and makes an annual profit. I don't see why a similar system couldn't be replicated in the UK.
Because it never is. Experience in the UK is that nationalised railways provide a poorer service. This has been the way ever since nationalisation.
Of course Swiss trains do only 19 billion passenger km per year compared to 66 billion done by UK trains
No. Experience shows that under-investment in the railways leads to a poorer service. This was the case of the Big 4 prior to nationalisation and with BR under Thatcher.
Senior Hamas figure admits 50 of 62 Gaza border deaths were terror group members - JC
Peaceful Palestinian demonstration !
I do not think it was a peaceful demonstration .Nevertheless the response by the Israel Army has correctly been questioned .
Do you think it was appropriate ?
I think killing 60 and wounding over 2000 is what Israel calls an appropriate response to a few rocks and burning tyres.
Those who try to defend it imagine a protest by Anti Capitaltsts in London where some rocks were thrown at police. Would it be acceptable to kill 60 and wound over 2000?
Are rocks still the weapons of choice for Hamas operatives?
It may be that privatisation helped passenger numbers grow, at the same time I seem to remember being a motorist under Labour became much more expensive than it was under the Tories, that will have changed the game for railways as well.
Gordon Brown's bloody fuel price escalator. That was an absolute killer back in the late 2000s.
Which is my point, that graph is always used as an example of why privatisation has been a game changer, but it takes into account absolutely no external factors or the cost increases for other modes of transport.
House prices/patterns of urbanisation also a big factor I think. Commuters into London for instance really don't have much choice.
Indeed. There is no competition down here for home counties commuters either from other rail companies or other transport modes. Rail is the one and only viable option for 9-5 workers – it's a "take it or leave it" situation.
An old classmate is currently doing a daily commute from Eastleigh to Redbridge. Sounds brutal.
Wow, yes, horrific and also very expensive. Add the price of the commute to a mortgage and he might be able to buy in East London!
That is intentionally or otherwise very funny and also telling. Everything is seen through the prism of wanting, nay, needing to be in London!!!??
I thought that was a huge part of the problem we face here in the UK!?
Edit: ENTIRELY likely I have missed the irony of your post!!
My point was more about the cost rather than where he wants to live. I'm sure Eastleigh is a lovely place (as is much of east London). But these mega-commutes are very pricey and sometimes it can actually work out more cost-effective to buy in town.
I once met someone who commuted from Southampton to Kings Cross, every morning. Horrific.
These days I think such people tend to mix office work with working from home but there is no facility in the season ticket system to buy a three/four day a week season ticket (at least there didn't use to be?)
Actually that is one area that Grayling could explore – I expect it would be a useful and popular measure.
It may be that privatisation helped passenger numbers grow, at the same time I seem to remember being a motorist under Labour became much more expensive than it was under the Tories, that will have changed the game for railways as well.
Gordon Brown's bloody fuel price escalator. That was an absolute killer back in the late 2000s.
Which is my point, that graph is always used as an example of why privatisation has been a game changer, but it takes into account absolutely no external factors or the cost increases for other modes of transport.
House prices/patterns of urbanisation also a big factor I think. Commuters into London for instance really don't have much choice.
Indeed. There is no competition down here for home counties commuters either from other rail companies or other transport modes. Rail is the one and only viable option for 9-5 workers – it's a "take it or leave it" situation.
An old classmate is currently doing a daily commute from Eastleigh to Redbridge. Sounds brutal.
Wow, yes, horrific and also very expensive. Add the price of the commute to a mortgage and he might be able to buy in East London!
That is intentionally or otherwise very funny and also telling. Everything is seen through the prism of wanting, nay, needing to be in London!!!??
I thought that was a huge part of the problem we face here in the UK!?
Edit: ENTIRELY likely I have missed the irony of your post!!
My point was more about the cost rather than where he wants to live. I'm sure Eastleigh is a lovely place (as is much of east London). But these mega-commutes are very pricey and sometimes it can actually work out more cost-effective to buy in town.
I once met someone who commuted from Southampton to Kings Cross, every morning. Horrific.
These days I think such people tend to mix office work with working from home but there is no facility in the season ticket system to buy a three/four day a week season ticket (at least there didn't use to be?)
Actually that is one area that Grayling could explore – I expect it would be a useful and popular measure.
Plus it would push up the price of boxer shorts/women's underwear.
It's a UK-wide full alignment option but for a limited (indefinite, could be quite long) period. Would remove some of the pressure of uncertainty on businesses for sure.
Para 49 says "maintain full alignment with those rules of the internal market and customs union which support north-south cooperation, the all-island economy and the Good Friday Agreement."
That's internal market as well as customs union.
No doubt it will be renamed "common market arrangement" and "customs arrangement" or somesuch to avoid the arch Brexiteers jump out of the slowly heating pan.
Some who voted leave rather like a 'common market'.
Why wasn't the Single Market named that? The EU missed a trick.
It may be that privatisation helped passenger numbers grow, at the same time I seem to remember being a motorist under Labour became much more expensive than it was under the Tories, that will have changed the game for railways as well.
Gordon Brown's bloody fuel price escalator. That was an absolute killer back in the late 2000s.
Which is my point, that graph is always used as an example of why privatisation has been a game changer, but it takes into account absolutely no external factors or the cost increases for other modes of transport.
House prices/patterns of urbanisation also a big factor I think. Commuters into London for instance really don't have much choice.
Indeed. There is no competition down here for home counties commuters either from other rail companies or other transport modes. Rail is the one and only viable option for 9-5 workers – it's a "take it or leave it" situation.
An old classmate is currently doing a daily commute from Eastleigh to Redbridge. Sounds brutal.
Wow, yes, horrific and also very expensive. Add the price of the commute to a mortgage and he might be able to buy in East London!
That is intentionally or otherwise very funny and also telling. Everything is seen through the prism of wanting, nay, needing to be in London!!!??
I thought that was a huge part of the problem we face here in the UK!?
Edit: ENTIRELY likely I have missed the irony of your post!!
My point was more about the cost rather than where he wants to live. I'm sure Eastleigh is a lovely place (as is much of east London). But these mega-commutes are very pricey and sometimes it can actually work out more cost-effective to buy in town.
I once met someone who commuted from Southampton to Kings Cross, every morning. Horrific.
These days I think such people tend to mix office work with working from home but there is no facility in the season ticket system to buy a three/four day a week season ticket (at least there didn't use to be?)
Actually that is one area that Grayling could explore – I expect it would be a useful and popular measure.
Plus it would push up the price of boxer shorts/women's underwear.
It may be that privatisation helped passenger numbers grow, at the same time I seem to remember being a motorist under Labour became much more expensive than it was under the Tories, that will have changed the game for railways as well.
Gordon Brown's bloody fuel price escalator. That was an absolute killer back in the late 2000s.
Which is my point, that graph is always used as an example of why privatisation has been a game changer, but it takes into account absolutely no external factors or the cost increases for other modes of transport.
House prices/patterns of urbanisation also a big factor I think. Commuters into London for instance really don't have much choice.
Indeed. There is no competition down here for home counties commuters either from other rail companies or other transport modes. Rail is the one and only viable option for 9-5 workers – it's a "take it or leave it" situation.
An old classmate is currently doing a daily commute from Eastleigh to Redbridge. Sounds brutal.
Wow, yes, horrific and also very expensive. Add the price of the commute to a mortgage and he might be able to buy in East London!
Hardly horrific. Eastleigh to Redbridge is just over 20 minutes. I do longer bus journeys where I have to stand all the way most days.
Senior Hamas figure admits 50 of 62 Gaza border deaths were terror group members - JC
Peaceful Palestinian demonstration !
I do not think it was a peaceful demonstration .Nevertheless the response by the Israel Army has correctly been questioned .
Do you think it was appropriate ?
I think killing 60 and wounding over 2000 is what Israel calls an appropriate response to a few rocks and burning tyres.
Those who try to defend it imagine a protest by Anti Capitaltsts in London where some rocks were thrown at police. Would it be acceptable to kill 60 and wound over 2000?
That's a dangerous question to ask on pb. Half the pb Tories would answer in the affirmative.
"Meanwhile, Britain's Northern Secretary Karen Bradley has said there will be no new cameras on the border on the island of Ireland after Brexit."
I had to read that twice as I know there is supposed to be a north-south divide in England but I hadn't realised that the govt had appointed a Secretary of State for The North!
I take the Swiss railways extensively and they are cheaper than what I used to pay in the UK and they are more punctual. The Swiss railways company is publicly owned, it is efficient and makes an annual profit. I don't see why a similar system couldn't be replicated in the UK.
Because it never is. Experience in the UK is that nationalised railways provide a poorer service. This has been the way ever since nationalisation.
Of course Swiss trains do only 19 billion passenger km per year compared to 66 billion done by UK trains
No. Experience shows that under-investment in the railways leads to a poorer service. This was the case of the Big 4 prior to nationalisation and with BR under Thatcher.
Nope. The biggest destruction of the railways came under the Nationalised system and services were atrocious no matter who was in power at the time.
It may be that privatisation helped passenger numbers grow, at the same time I seem to remember being a motorist under Labour became much more expensive than it was under the Tories, that will have changed the game for railways as well.
Gordon Brown's bloody fuel price escalator. That was an absolute killer back in the late 2000s.
Which is my point, that graph is always used as an example of why privatisation has been a game changer, but it takes into account absolutely no external factors or the cost increases for other modes of transport.
House prices/patterns of urbanisation also a big factor I think. Commuters into London for instance really don't have much choice.
Indeed. There is no competition down here for home counties commuters either from other rail companies or other transport modes. Rail is the one and only viable option for 9-5 workers – it's a "take it or leave it" situation.
An old classmate is currently doing a daily commute from Eastleigh to Redbridge. Sounds brutal.
Wow, yes, horrific and also very expensive. Add the price of the commute to a mortgage and he might be able to buy in East London!
Hardly horrific. Eastleigh to Redbridge is just over 20 minutes. I do longer bus journeys where I have to stand all the way most days.
Senior Hamas figure admits 50 of 62 Gaza border deaths were terror group members - JC
Peaceful Palestinian demonstration !
I do not think it was a peaceful demonstration .Nevertheless the response by the Israel Army has correctly been questioned .
Do you think it was appropriate ?
I think killing 60 and wounding over 2000 is what Israel calls an appropriate response to a few rocks and burning tyres.
Those who try to defend it imagine a protest by Anti Capitaltsts in London where some rocks were thrown at police. Would it be acceptable to kill 60 and wound over 2000?
That's a dangerous question to ask on pb. Half the pb Tories would answer in the affirmative.
If only the Arabs had accepted the Two-state Solution back in 1947, as outlined in UN General Assembly Resolution 181.
It may be that privatisation helped passenger numbers grow, at the same time I seem to remember being a motorist under Labour became much more expensive than it was under the Tories, that will have changed the game for railways as well.
Gordon Brown's bloody fuel price escalator. That was an absolute killer back in the late 2000s.
Which is my point, that graph is always used as an example of why privatisation has been a game changer, but it takes into account absolutely no external factors or the cost increases for other modes of transport.
House prices/patterns of urbanisation also a big factor I think. Commuters into London for instance really don't have much choice.
Indeed. There is no competition down here for home counties commuters either from other rail companies or other transport modes. Rail is the one and only viable option for 9-5 workers – it's a "take it or leave it" situation.
An old classmate is currently doing a daily commute from Eastleigh to Redbridge. Sounds brutal.
Wow, yes, horrific and also very expensive. Add the price of the commute to a mortgage and he might be able to buy in East London!
Hardly horrific. Eastleigh to Redbridge is just over 20 minutes. I do longer bus journeys where I have to stand all the way most days.
Depends which Redbridge! The one in Ilford North would take a lot longer than 20 minutes
It may be that privatisation helped passenger numbers grow, at the same time I seem to remember being a motorist under Labour became much more expensive than it was under the Tories, that will have changed the game for railways as well.
Gordon Brown's bloody fuel price escalator. That was an absolute killer back in the late 2000s.
Which is my point, that graph is always used as an example of why privatisation has been a game changer, but it takes into account absolutely no external factors or the cost increases for other modes of transport.
House prices/patterns of urbanisation also a big factor I think. Commuters into London for instance really don't have much choice.
Indeed. There is no competition down here for home counties commuters either from other rail companies or other transport modes. Rail is the one and only viable option for 9-5 workers – it's a "take it or leave it" situation.
An old classmate is currently doing a daily commute from Eastleigh to Redbridge. Sounds brutal.
Wow, yes, horrific and also very expensive. Add the price of the commute to a mortgage and he might be able to buy in East London!
Hardly horrific. Eastleigh to Redbridge is just over 20 minutes. I do longer bus journeys where I have to stand all the way most days.
Depends which Redbridge! The one in Ilford North would take a lot longer than 20 minutes
(I'll get me coat...)
Ha! I have just realised the confusion, there is a district of Southampton called Redbridge.
It was the private sector wot built the first main line railways and Tube lines
Resulting in inefficient duplication of provision on many routes.
A Beeching apologist writes
Certainly not! Wot Dr B got wrong was taking away the only rail line to many communities all over the country. There was no regard for the Public Good in the closures programme.
I take the Swiss railways extensively and they are cheaper than what I used to pay in the UK and they are more punctual. The Swiss railways company is publicly owned, it is efficient and makes an annual profit. I don't see why a similar system couldn't be replicated in the UK.
Because it never is. Experience in the UK is that nationalised railways provide a poorer service. This has been the way ever since nationalisation.
Of course Swiss trains do only 19 billion passenger km per year compared to 66 billion done by UK trains
No. Experience shows that under-investment in the railways leads to a poorer service. This was the case of the Big 4 prior to nationalisation and with BR under Thatcher.
Nope. The biggest destruction of the railways came under the Nationalised system and services were atrocious no matter who was in power at the time.
The Swiss Federal Railways are impressive. They didn't have a 'Beeching' and the tracks are 100% electrified. No Grayling nonsense about stopping the works at Cardiff because electrification to Swansea is too much ££.
Last time I travelled on a Swiss train was the late 2000s. The fare per km if you just turned up in the middle of the day and bought a ticket was a bit more than a UK GWR 'super off peak' return. It seemed about the same as an 'off peak' return, i.e. much less than 'anytime'.
I didn't know they made a profit. That would be unusual, unless it leaves out the infastructure costs.
19 billion passenger km/yr is also v. high. On the basis of Switzerland's population being almost 8x smaller than the UK. the figure 'should' be only 9 billion passenger km/yr.
I take the Swiss railways extensively and they are cheaper than what I used to pay in the UK and they are more punctual. The Swiss railways company is publicly owned, it is efficient and makes an annual profit. I don't see why a similar system couldn't be replicated in the UK.
Because it never is. Experience in the UK is that nationalised railways provide a poorer service. This has been the way ever since nationalisation.
Of course Swiss trains do only 19 billion passenger km per year compared to 66 billion done by UK trains
No. Experience shows that under-investment in the railways leads to a poorer service. This was the case of the Big 4 prior to nationalisation and with BR under Thatcher.
Nope. The biggest destruction of the railways came under the Nationalised system and services were atrocious no matter who was in power at the time.
The Swiss Federal Railways are impressive. They didn't have a 'Beeching' and the tracks are 100% electrified.
Senior Hamas figure admits 50 of 62 Gaza border deaths were terror group members - JC
Peaceful Palestinian demonstration !
I do not think it was a peaceful demonstration .Nevertheless the response by the Israel Army has correctly been questioned .
Do you think it was appropriate ?
I think killing 60 and wounding over 2000 is what Israel calls an appropriate response to a few rocks and burning tyres.
Those who try to defend it imagine a protest by Anti Capitaltsts in London where some rocks were thrown at police. Would it be acceptable to kill 60 and wound over 2000?
That's a dangerous question to ask on pb. Half the pb Tories would answer in the affirmative.
I hesitate to say this to one of my favourite and most respected posters. But ...... you're being silly. (Or perhaps provocative.)
Even if most of those killed were members of Hamas Israel's actions seem to me (based only on what I have been reading) to be disproportionate, possibly crimes and foolish since they do nothing to calm an already inflamed and difficult situation and perpetuate a vicious cycle of grievance, martyrdom, reaction, defensiveness, aggression and fear.
I do not hold with the seemingly fashionable view that Israel is wholly to blame and wholly evil and the Palestinians are purely innocent victims. The situation is much more complicated. But Israel does not seem to me to have an intelligent long-term strategy and, as the stronger party, is behaving in a way which, quite apart from any other considerations, risks weakening its long-term position.
I cannot imagine PB'ers wanting anti-capitalist demonstrators killed (other than possibly @SeanT in one of his wilder alcohol-fuelled moments - and where is he, BTW?).
I see that a Labour councillor in Oxford has had the whip withdrawn for tweeting picures of children being threatened by armed soldiers. One picture showed a Nazi soldier from World War 2 whilst another showed an Israeli doing something similar a mere few days ago. Personally , I feel his point is well made by those photos - and fail to see how producing them amounts to Anti-Semitism at all. At the end of the day, Netanyahu is little better than Himmler et al.
The more-or-less official definition of antisemitism includes drawing parallels with the Nazis.
No matter how much their supporters try to make it so, Israel and Judaism are not synonymous. Indeed plenty of Orthodox Jews claim the existence of Israel is against Jewish teachings.
To claim that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic is merely a way to shut down debate.
Why does criticism of Israel ever need to contain reference to the Nazis?
Not being imaginative enough to think up different shits to compare Jewish people to than the shits that actually tried to exterminate them all is pretty fucking insulting.
Senior Hamas figure admits 50 of 62 Gaza border deaths were terror group members - JC
Peaceful Palestinian demonstration !
I do not think it was a peaceful demonstration .Nevertheless the response by the Israel Army has correctly been questioned .
Do you think it was appropriate ?
I'm not in a position to know. However a border under terrorist attack merits a robust response. The rush to judgement on the part of some is interesting given that most are in no better place to know than I. On the broader issue I support a two state solution.
Some of the Beeching cuts look from this distance to have been a mistake. A line used to run from Marks Tey near Colchester up to Cambridgeshire. Only a small shuttle between Sudbury and Marks Tey remains (rather fancifully called the Gainsborough line). There are now proposals to open a line between Cambridge and Haverhill and logically the two would join up very naturally, allowing for the expansion of the Cambridge commuter belt in a different direction.
I take the Swiss railways extensively and they are cheaper than what I used to pay in the UK and they are more punctual. The Swiss railways company is publicly owned, it is efficient and makes an annual profit. I don't see why a similar system couldn't be replicated in the UK.
Because it never is. Experience in the UK is that nationalised railways provide a poorer service. This has been the way ever since nationalisation.
Of course Swiss trains do only 19 billion passenger km per year compared to 66 billion done by UK trains
No. Experience shows that under-investment in the railways leads to a poorer service. This was the case of the Big 4 prior to nationalisation and with BR under Thatcher.
Nope. The biggest destruction of the railways came under the Nationalised system and services were atrocious no matter who was in power at the time.
In the early 1970s French trains were regarded as a joke - old fashioned, slow, and uncomfortable. Not a patch on the HSTs that were then being introduced in the UK. Since then the UK system has been set free whilst the French are still weighed down by the millstone of nationalisation. But now it's the French system which is obviously superior - the UK still operates many of the 1970s HSTs and speeds have scarcely increased whilst the French have built an entire network of TGVs. We obsess about ownership and structure whilst other countries put their energies into technology and services.
Senior Hamas figure admits 50 of 62 Gaza border deaths were terror group members - JC
Peaceful Palestinian demonstration !
I do not think it was a peaceful demonstration .Nevertheless the response by the Israel Army has correctly been questioned .
Do you think it was appropriate ?
I think killing 60 and wounding over 2000 is what Israel calls an appropriate response to a few rocks and burning tyres.
Those who try to defend it imagine a protest by Anti Capitaltsts in London where some rocks were thrown at police. Would it be acceptable to kill 60 and wound over 2000?
Are rocks still the weapons of choice for Hamas operatives?
I take the Swiss railways extensively and they are cheaper than what I used to pay in the UK and they are more punctual. The Swiss railways company is publicly owned, it is efficient and makes an annual profit. I don't see why a similar system couldn't be replicated in the UK.
Because it never is. Experience in the UK is that nationalised railways provide a poorer service. This has been the way ever since nationalisation.
Of course Swiss trains do only 19 billion passenger km per year compared to 66 billion done by UK trains
No. Experience shows that under-investment in the railways leads to a poorer service. This was the case of the Big 4 prior to nationalisation and with BR under Thatcher.
Nope. The biggest destruction of the railways came under the Nationalised system and services were atrocious no matter who was in power at the time.
The Swiss Federal Railways are impressive. They didn't have a 'Beeching' and the tracks are 100% electrified.
Not quite, some narrow gauge lines are diesel (eg. Chur to Arosa).
Maybe the online sources have rounded it up from '>99' to 100%. It's somewhere in that range.
It would be nice for the UK to have an argument on whether the figure is 99% or 100%, not a pathetic debate whether to electrify busy main lines west of London which would still only take the figure up to about 60%.
I take the Swiss railways extensively and they are cheaper than what I used to pay in the UK and they are more punctual. The Swiss railways company is publicly owned, it is efficient and makes an annual profit. I don't see why a similar system couldn't be replicated in the UK.
Because it never is. Experience in the UK is that nationalised railways provide a poorer service. This has been the way ever since nationalisation.
Of course Swiss trains do only 19 billion passenger km per year compared to 66 billion done by UK trains
No. Experience shows that under-investment in the railways leads to a poorer service. This was the case of the Big 4 prior to nationalisation and with BR under Thatcher.
Nope. The biggest destruction of the railways came under the Nationalised system and services were atrocious no matter who was in power at the time.
The Swiss Federal Railways are impressive. They didn't have a 'Beeching' and the tracks are 100% electrified.
Not quite, some narrow gauge lines are diesel (eg. Chur to Arosa).
Maybe the online sources have rounded it up from '>99' to 100%. It's somewhere in that range.
It would be nice for the UK to have an argument on whether the figure is 99% or 100%, not a pathetic debate whether to electrify busy main lines west of London which would still only take the figure up to about 60%.
Hydrogen fuel cell powered trains are the future. Electric trains are old hat.
It was the private sector wot built the first main line railways and Tube lines
Resulting in inefficient duplication of provision on many routes.
A Beeching apologist writes
Certainly not! Wot Dr B got wrong was taking away the only rail line to many communities all over the country. There was no regard for the Public Good in the closures programme.
Beeching was the greatest British civil servant of the second half of the 20th century. He not only correctly analysed the problem but also the solution and then - despite that solution being politically difficult - successfully implemented it. His reorganisation of the railways - not just the track cuts but also the ending of steam and the drive to diesel and electric - was what ultimately enabled the growth post-privatisation. That investment in new engines and trains could not have happened had BR continued to plough money into barely-used rural lines.
Arguments about 'public good' are invariably made by people who want to spend other people's money on either themselves or things that make them feel good. Undoubtedly, some lines were cut that in retrospect could have been kept open. however, the great majority were loss-making, would always have been loss-making and were built to serve a purpose that other developments in transport had rendered obsolete.
It was the private sector wot built the first main line railways and Tube lines
Resulting in inefficient duplication of provision on many routes.
A Beeching apologist writes
Certainly not! Wot Dr B got wrong was taking away the only rail line to many communities all over the country. There was no regard for the Public Good in the closures programme.
Beeching was the greatest British civil servant of the second half of the 20th century. He not only correctly analysed the problem but also the solution and then - despite that solution being politically difficult - successfully implemented it. His reorganisation of the railways - not just the track cuts but also the ending of steam and the drive to diesel and electric - was what ultimately enabled the growth post-privatisation. That investment in new engines and trains could not have happened had BR continued to plough money into barely-used rural lines.
Arguments about 'public good' are invariably made by people who want to spend other people's money on either themselves or things that make them feel good. Undoubtedly, some lines were cut that in retrospect could have been kept open. however, the great majority were loss-making, would always have been loss-making and were built to serve a purpose that other developments in transport had rendered obsolete.
Beeching instigated a study which he knew from the very start was going to present an utterly false picture of rail usage. By ensuring that passenger usage surveys were taken at stations when it was known they were not at their maximum usage - particularly on commuter and seasonal lines - he ensured that many lines that should have stayed open on the basis of usage were destined for closure. It was a thoroughly dishonest way to proceed.
I see that a Labour councillor in Oxford has had the whip withdrawn for tweeting picures of children being threatened by armed soldiers. One picture showed a Nazi soldier from World War 2 whilst another showed an Israeli doing something similar a mere few days ago. Personally , I feel his point is well made by those photos - and fail to see how producing them amounts to Anti-Semitism at all. At the end of the day, Netanyahu is little better than Himmler et al.
The more-or-less official definition of antisemitism includes drawing parallels with the Nazis.
No matter how much their supporters try to make it so, Israel and Judaism are not synonymous. Indeed plenty of Orthodox Jews claim the existence of Israel is against Jewish teachings.
To claim that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic is merely a way to shut down debate.
Why does criticism of Israel ever need to contain reference to the Nazis?
Not being imaginative enough to think up different shits to compare Jewish people to than the shits that actually tried to exterminate them all is pretty fucking insulting.
Senior Hamas figure admits 50 of 62 Gaza border deaths were terror group members - JC
Peaceful Palestinian demonstration !
I do not think it was a peaceful demonstration .Nevertheless the response by the Israel Army has correctly been questioned .
Do you think it was appropriate ?
I think killing 60 and wounding over 2000 is what Israel calls an appropriate response to a few rocks and burning tyres.
Those who try to defend it imagine a protest by Anti Capitaltsts in London where some rocks were thrown at police. Would it be acceptable to kill 60 and wound over 2000?
That's a dangerous question to ask on pb. Half the pb Tories would answer in the affirmative.
I hesitate to say this to one of my favourite and most respected posters. But ...... you're being silly. (Or perhaps provocative.)
Even if most of those killed were members of Hamas Israel's actions seem to me (based only on what I have been reading) to be disproportionate, possibly crimes and foolish since they do nothing to calm an already inflamed and difficult situation and perpetuate a vicious cycle of grievance, martyrdom, reaction, defensiveness, aggression and fear.
I do not hold with the seemingly fashionable view that Israel is wholly to blame and wholly evil and the Palestinians are purely innocent victims. The situation is much more complicated. But Israel does not seem to me to have an intelligent long-term strategy and, as the stronger party, is behaving in a way which, quite apart from any other considerations, risks weakening its long-term position.
I cannot imagine PB'ers wanting anti-capitalist demonstrators killed (other than possibly @SeanT in one of his wilder alcohol-fuelled moments - and where is he, BTW?).
Well said. Israel is, although unquestionably under threat, in the stronger position in many ways, and questioning how proportionate their response to such incidents is, would be appropriate I think , without turning a complicated situation into a one note morality play.
Comments
The transformation of the UK to a deliveroo/Amazon express economy.
https://rte.ie/amp/963831/
"Meanwhile, Britain's Northern Secretary Karen Bradley has said there will be no new cameras on the border on the island of Ireland after Brexit."
I had to read that twice as I know there is supposed to be a north-south divide in England but I hadn't realised that the govt had appointed a Secretary of State for The North!
Should suit all parties and keep the frogs happily submerged.
Of course Swiss trains do only 19 billion passenger km per year compared to 66 billion done by UK trains
I thought that was a huge part of the problem we face here in the UK!?
Edit: ENTIRELY likely I have missed the irony of your post!!
Those who try to defend it imagine a protest by Anti Capitaltsts in London where some rocks were thrown at police. Would it be acceptable to kill 60 and wound over 2000?
I once met someone who commuted from Southampton to Kings Cross, every morning. Horrific.
These days I think such people tend to mix office work with working from home but there is no facility in the season ticket system to buy a three/four day a week season ticket (at least there didn't use to be?)
Actually that is one area that Grayling could explore – I expect it would be a useful and popular measure.
Why wasn't the Single Market named that? The EU missed a trick.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_of_State_for_the_Northern_Department
(I'll get me coat...)
@Pulpstar means Redbridge, east London I think!!
Last time I travelled on a Swiss train was the late 2000s. The fare per km if you just turned up in the middle of the day and bought a ticket was a bit more than a UK GWR 'super off peak' return. It seemed about the same as an 'off peak' return, i.e. much less than 'anytime'.
I didn't know they made a profit. That would be unusual, unless it leaves out the infastructure costs.
19 billion passenger km/yr is also v. high. On the basis of Switzerland's population being almost 8x smaller than the UK. the figure 'should' be only 9 billion passenger km/yr.
Not quite - 5270 out of 5323 kilometres
Even if most of those killed were members of Hamas Israel's actions seem to me (based only on what I have been reading) to be disproportionate, possibly crimes and foolish since they do nothing to calm an already inflamed and difficult situation and perpetuate a vicious cycle of grievance, martyrdom, reaction, defensiveness, aggression and fear.
I do not hold with the seemingly fashionable view that Israel is wholly to blame and wholly evil and the Palestinians are purely innocent victims. The situation is much more complicated. But Israel does not seem to me to have an intelligent long-term strategy and, as the stronger party, is behaving in a way which, quite apart from any other considerations, risks weakening its long-term position.
I cannot imagine PB'ers wanting anti-capitalist demonstrators killed (other than possibly @SeanT in one of his wilder alcohol-fuelled moments - and where is he, BTW?).
Not being imaginative enough to think up different shits to compare Jewish people to than the shits that actually tried to exterminate them all is pretty fucking insulting.
It would be nice for the UK to have an argument on whether the figure is 99% or 100%, not a pathetic debate whether to electrify busy main lines west of London which would still only take the figure up to about 60%.
Hydrogen fuel cell powered trains are the future. Electric trains are old hat.
Arguments about 'public good' are invariably made by people who want to spend other people's money on either themselves or things that make them feel good. Undoubtedly, some lines were cut that in retrospect could have been kept open. however, the great majority were loss-making, would always have been loss-making and were built to serve a purpose that other developments in transport had rendered obsolete.