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  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:
    Under FIFA rules the government has to stay out of it - any fule know that

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/world-cup-2018-spain-fifa-threaten-expel-political-interference-a8112466.html

    "Spain’s involvement at the 2018 World Cup finals in Russia could be under threat after Fifa warned the Spanish football federation (RFEF) against political interference."

    Is Scott so dour and joyless he wants England kicked out of the World Cup ?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Scott_P said:
    Wasn’t the old Wembley demolished under Blair? The article is right, it’s not a government matter.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TGOHF said:

    Is Scott so dour and joyless he wants England kicked out of the World Cup ?

    Watching England play in the World Cup is the definition of dour and joyless
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited May 2018
    That would have been an interesting job for the RAF logistics team. A Hawk is 13’ high and has a 33’ wingspan, so presumably it was either de-rigged and arrived on several large trucks to be rebuilt on site, or else turned up slung under a Chinook?

    Unless of course that’s a carefully cropped photo, and all that’s actually there is a replica cockpit section rather than a whole plane?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Is Scott so dour and joyless he wants England kicked out of the World Cup ?

    Watching England play in the World Cup is the definition of dour and joyless
    Are you boycotting until the EU has it's own combined team (of Germans) ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,050

    Dr. Prasannan, interesting on female Soviet pilots. Didn't know that.

    Dr. Foxy, well, yes and no. Better for women on the piloting front, but worse on the politically motivated genocide front.

    Kemal Ataturks daughter also flew combat missions as I recall. Istanbul airport is named for her.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,909
    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Is Scott so dour and joyless he wants England kicked out of the World Cup ?

    Watching England play in the World Cup is the definition of dour and joyless
    Sporting equivalent of the British entry to Eurovision? ;)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Dr. Foxy, didn't know that either.

    Mr. Sandpit, if that comes off, I shall be displeased, I must confess. (I reserve the right to forgive you if Perez and Alonso are on the podium, though).
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    Sandpit said:

    That would have been an interesting job for the RAF logistics team. A Hawk is 13’ high and has a 33’ wingspan, so presumably it was either de-rigged and arrived on several large trucks to be rebuilt on site, or else turned up slung under a Chinook?

    Unless of course that’s a carefully cropped photo, and all that’s actually there is a replica cockpit section rather than a whole plane?
    I guess the govt felt it was worth making an effort this time to avoid a repeat of what happened when they neglected to mark the 50th anniversary!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hunter_Tower_Bridge_incident
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,122

    IanB2 said:

    It may well hang on how much of a by-election operation the Tories are able to mount. They will find it a lot more difficult to motivate people to travel to such an obviously hopeless contest, whereas LibDems are by their nature relatively immune to the prospect of hopelessness.

    As a London seat, travel isn't that much of a problem. Even if it is sarf of the river.
    I lived there until 2009 and have been told today that my postal vote will be sent on the 30th May. Hope it arrives in time. The area has moved left massively since the 90s - because of demographic changes. Otherwise there is a lot of owner occupation as it used to be quite affordable with good quality housing on the huge Corbett estate. I'd say it was not natural LD territory especially with a pro EU Labour candidate. The rump Tory vote is liklely to stay blue. My partner and I will do oue bit from SE Spain. :)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,262
    edited May 2018

    We need a Senate, with just 25 wholly elected Senators from each country.

    Interesting idea but England would be woefully under-represented. How about 5 or 6 English regions (say North, Midlands, East, South West, South (exc. London), and London - I am sure the detail could be argued over)? That way Scotland, NI and Wales are still over represented but not massively so.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,262
    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    It may well hang on how much of a by-election operation the Tories are able to mount. They will find it a lot more difficult to motivate people to travel to such an obviously hopeless contest, whereas LibDems are by their nature relatively immune to the prospect of hopelessness.

    As a London seat, travel isn't that much of a problem. Even if it is sarf of the river.
    I lived there until 2009 and have been told today that my postal vote will be sent on the 30th May. Hope it arrives in time. The area has moved left massively since the 90s - because of demographic changes. Otherwise there is a lot of owner occupation as it used to be quite affordable with good quality housing on the huge Corbett estate. I'd say it was not natural LD territory especially with a pro EU Labour candidate. The rump Tory vote is liklely to stay blue. My partner and I will do oue bit from SE Spain. :)
    Can't see why you should have a vote if you've lived in Spain since 2009; sounds like undue foreign influence in our democratic process.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sandpit said:

    That would have been an interesting job for the RAF logistics team. A Hawk is 13’ high and has a 33’ wingspan, so presumably it was either de-rigged and arrived on several large trucks to be rebuilt on site, or else turned up slung under a Chinook?

    Unless of course that’s a carefully cropped photo, and all that’s actually there is a replica cockpit section rather than a whole plane?
    I guess the govt felt it was worth making an effort this time to avoid a repeat of what happened when they neglected to mark the 50th anniversary!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hunter_Tower_Bridge_incident
    Yes, that one was almost worth the court martial just for the bragging rights. Bet he never had to pay for another beer in his life!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Pointer, what? How big would you be making the North in that scenario? Every other region, possibly excepting East, would be Southern. You'd have a campaign for a Northern Parliament going with that sort of split.

    And why should Scotland, NI, and Wales be over-represented when they have devolution and England doesn't?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    It may well hang on how much of a by-election operation the Tories are able to mount. They will find it a lot more difficult to motivate people to travel to such an obviously hopeless contest, whereas LibDems are by their nature relatively immune to the prospect of hopelessness.

    As a London seat, travel isn't that much of a problem. Even if it is sarf of the river.
    I lived there until 2009 and have been told today that my postal vote will be sent on the 30th May. Hope it arrives in time. The area has moved left massively since the 90s - because of demographic changes. Otherwise there is a lot of owner occupation as it used to be quite affordable with good quality housing on the huge Corbett estate. I'd say it was not natural LD territory especially with a pro EU Labour candidate. The rump Tory vote is liklely to stay blue. My partner and I will do oue bit from SE Spain. :)
    Can't see why you should have a vote if you've lived in Spain since 2009; sounds like undue foreign influence in our democratic process.
    Foreign influence? Pretty sure you can only do it if you are British.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    That would have been an interesting job for the RAF logistics team. A Hawk is 13’ high and has a 33’ wingspan, so presumably it was either de-rigged and arrived on several large trucks to be rebuilt on site, or else turned up slung under a Chinook?

    Unless of course that’s a carefully cropped photo, and all that’s actually there is a replica cockpit section rather than a whole plane?
    I guess the govt felt it was worth making an effort this time to avoid a repeat of what happened when they neglected to mark the 50th anniversary!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hunter_Tower_Bridge_incident
    Yes, that one was almost worth the court martial just for the bragging rights. Bet he never had to pay for another beer in his life!
    ‘Invalided out” according to Wikipedia, allegedly to avoid a court martial where he would have had the chance to say why he did it.
    Wonder what happened to him after he ‘left’ the RAF!
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    We need a Senate, with just 25 wholly elected Senators from each country.

    Interesting idea but England would be woefully under-represented. How about 5 or 6 English regions (say North, Midlands, East, South West, South (exc. London), and London - I am sure the detail could be argued over)? That way Scotland, NI and Wales are still over represented but not massively so.
    One or two per county? Powys or Ceredigion get as many as Surrey or Hants.

    Although I prefer on balance to let the hereditaries die off and not be replaced, there's a hereditary Labour peer who seems to do sterling work winding up the PoW

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/prince-charles/11387237/Prince-Charles-called-Labour-peer-a-nutter-for-trying-to-reform-Duchy-of-Cornwall.html
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,122

    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    It may well hang on how much of a by-election operation the Tories are able to mount. They will find it a lot more difficult to motivate people to travel to such an obviously hopeless contest, whereas LibDems are by their nature relatively immune to the prospect of hopelessness.

    As a London seat, travel isn't that much of a problem. Even if it is sarf of the river.
    I lived there until 2009 and have been told today that my postal vote will be sent on the 30th May. Hope it arrives in time. The area has moved left massively since the 90s - because of demographic changes. Otherwise there is a lot of owner occupation as it used to be quite affordable with good quality housing on the huge Corbett estate. I'd say it was not natural LD territory especially with a pro EU Labour candidate. The rump Tory vote is liklely to stay blue. My partner and I will do oue bit from SE Spain. :)
    Can't see why you should have a vote if you've lived in Spain since 2009; sounds like undue foreign influence in our democratic process.
    I am a British citizen and pay a lot of UK taxes, as well as some Spanish ones. It is my legal right.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,545
    felix said:

    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    It may well hang on how much of a by-election operation the Tories are able to mount. They will find it a lot more difficult to motivate people to travel to such an obviously hopeless contest, whereas LibDems are by their nature relatively immune to the prospect of hopelessness.

    As a London seat, travel isn't that much of a problem. Even if it is sarf of the river.
    I lived there until 2009 and have been told today that my postal vote will be sent on the 30th May. Hope it arrives in time. The area has moved left massively since the 90s - because of demographic changes. Otherwise there is a lot of owner occupation as it used to be quite affordable with good quality housing on the huge Corbett estate. I'd say it was not natural LD territory especially with a pro EU Labour candidate. The rump Tory vote is liklely to stay blue. My partner and I will do oue bit from SE Spain. :)
    Can't see why you should have a vote if you've lived in Spain since 2009; sounds like undue foreign influence in our democratic process.
    I am a British citizen and pay a lot of UK taxes, as well as some Spanish ones. It is my legal right.
    IIRC British citizens living abroad were given the right to vote in the Thatcher years. Before that you had to reside in the UK to be able to vote.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    edited May 2018

    felix said:

    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    It may well hang on how much of a by-election operation the Tories are able to mount. They will find it a lot more difficult to motivate people to travel to such an obviously hopeless contest, whereas LibDems are by their nature relatively immune to the prospect of hopelessness.

    As a London seat, travel isn't that much of a problem. Even if it is sarf of the river.
    I lived there until 2009 and have been told today that my postal vote will be sent on the 30th May. Hope it arrives in time. The area has moved left massively since the 90s - because of demographic changes. Otherwise there is a lot of owner occupation as it used to be quite affordable with good quality housing on the huge Corbett estate. I'd say it was not natural LD territory especially with a pro EU Labour candidate. The rump Tory vote is liklely to stay blue. My partner and I will do oue bit from SE Spain. :)
    Can't see why you should have a vote if you've lived in Spain since 2009; sounds like undue foreign influence in our democratic process.
    I am a British citizen and pay a lot of UK taxes, as well as some Spanish ones. It is my legal right.
    IIRC British citizens living abroad were given the right to vote in the Thatcher years. Before that you had to reside in the UK to be able to vote.
    And the UK is one of only six EU countries to have any restriction (the 15 year time limit) on the right of citizens living overseas to vote.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    We need a Senate, with just 25 wholly elected Senators from each country.

    How about 2 Senators from each County (or similarly defined equal-population region). Elected in alternate elections by FPTP or AV.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    We need a Senate, with just 25 wholly elected Senators from each country.

    How about 2 Senators from each County (or similarly defined equal-population region). Elected in alternate elections by FPTP or AV.
    Because Scotland has about as many counties as England.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    edited May 2018

    Dr. Prasannan, interesting on female Soviet pilots. Didn't know that.

    (Snip)

    Turkey may well have been there first:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabiha_Gökçen

    :)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007

    We need a Senate, with just 25 wholly elected Senators from each country.

    I will oppose any House of Lords reform that renames it the Senate or calls its members Senators.

    We are *not* a republic. Peers, Member of the Lords.. anything but Senator.

    These things matter.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    The DExEu Committee has heard evidence today from HMRC that max fac will cost businesses £17 to £20 BILLION a year in customs declaration fees.

    Another day, another flashing red light.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/may/23/pmqs-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-gove-ministers-accused-of-putting-country-in-jeopardy-through-cabinet-infighting-politics-live

    Cancel Brexit now. It’s a catastrophe.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Royale, not to mention what would happen to the establishment of the Church.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007

    Scott_P said:
    I actually like that cartoon - you have noticed the subtle change to my avatar?
    He really is a shit cartoonist.

    I thought of exactly the same gag, but I wouldn’t have written /drawn it like that. Just not funny.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Walker, be easier to take that seriously if the government hadn't put out their apocalyptic warnings which then turned out to be tosh.

    It's rather dented trust in their other utterances.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    The DExEu Committee has heard evidence today from HMRC that max fac will cost businesses £17 to £20 BILLION a year in customs declaration fees.

    Another day, another flashing red light.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/may/23/pmqs-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-gove-ministers-accused-of-putting-country-in-jeopardy-through-cabinet-infighting-politics-live

    Cancel Brexit now. It’s a catastrophe.

    Or reduce taxes to mitigate it, perhaps?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812

    Mr. Walker, be easier to take that seriously if the government hadn't put out their apocalyptic warnings which then turned out to be tosh.

    It's rather dented trust in their other utterances.

    Would you listen to any evidence that Brexit might be a mistake, or have you just closed your mind, Mr Dancer?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Sajid Javid backs spit hoods and stop and search as he axes Theresa May's tough rhetoric to woo police officers by promising the 'powers and funding' needed to do their job

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5761779/Sajid-Javid-reveals-police-chief-brother-crime-busters-gang.html

    The Guardian aren't going to be happy.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    RobD said:

    We need a Senate, with just 25 wholly elected Senators from each country.

    How about 2 Senators from each County (or similarly defined equal-population region). Elected in alternate elections by FPTP or AV.
    Because Scotland has about as many counties as England.
    Thought they’d been merged into Regions and theren’t nearly as many of them.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,840

    We need a Senate, with just 25 wholly elected Senators from each country.

    Interesting idea but England would be woefully under-represented. How about 5 or 6 English regions (say North, Midlands, East, South West, South (exc. London), and London - I am sure the detail could be argued over)? That way Scotland, NI and Wales are still over represented but not massively so.
    3.113 million Wales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales 8,023 sq miles
    5.289 million SW https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_West_England 9,200 sq miles
    5.415 million Scotland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland 30,090 sq miles
    5.847 million E https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_of_England 7,380 sq miles
    8.635 million SE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_East_England 7,373 sq miles
    8.788 million L https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London 607 sq miles
    10.35 million M https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Midlands 11,034 sq miles
    14.934 million N https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_England 14,414 sq miles

    There should probably be a split for Northern England of the Northwest AND North East & Yorkshire & the Humber (The NE is even lower in pop than Wales)
    The East and West Midlands should probably also be split.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    This Grenfell Tower 'inquiry' is getting a little odd.

    Letting victims and the relatives of victims give evidence about the personal effects of the tragedy may provide good media, and may (or may not) help in the grieving process; however I fail to see how it will actually help get to the truth over what happened, or prevent any such incidents in the future.

    Or am I being too harsh?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    RobD said:

    The DExEu Committee has heard evidence today from HMRC that max fac will cost businesses £17 to £20 BILLION a year in customs declaration fees.

    Another day, another flashing red light.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/may/23/pmqs-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-gove-ministers-accused-of-putting-country-in-jeopardy-through-cabinet-infighting-politics-live

    Cancel Brexit now. It’s a catastrophe.

    Or reduce taxes to mitigate it, perhaps?
    Er...... what happened to the £350m for the NHS?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    This Grenfell Tower 'inquiry' is getting a little odd.

    Letting victims and the relatives of victims give evidence about the personal effects of the tragedy may provide good media, and may (or may not) help in the grieving process; however I fail to see how it will actually help get to the truth over what happened, or prevent any such incidents in the future.

    Or am I being too harsh?

    Meh - its good PR and will help calm tensions before the forensic stuff gets underway.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    I've heard a few blacksmiths, farriers and coopers are under pressure too.
  • Quick question - to whom should I submit a draft article? It is about a bet on the US elections.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,909
    RobD said:

    We need a Senate, with just 25 wholly elected Senators from each country.

    How about 2 Senators from each County (or similarly defined equal-population region). Elected in alternate elections by FPTP or AV.
    Because Scotland has about as many counties as England.
    Does it?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    The DExEu Committee has heard evidence today from HMRC that max fac will cost businesses £17 to £20 BILLION a year in customs declaration fees.

    Another day, another flashing red light.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/may/23/pmqs-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-gove-ministers-accused-of-putting-country-in-jeopardy-through-cabinet-infighting-politics-live

    Cancel Brexit now. It’s a catastrophe.

    Or reduce taxes to mitigate it, perhaps?
    Er...... what happened to the £350m for the NHS?
    Well with a FTA it would be unnecessary. A shame the EU aren't interested in having one.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Quick question - to whom should I submit a draft article? It is about a bet on the US elections.

    You could message Mike directly -- https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/MikeSmithson

    Although I'm not sure if he monitors that inbox.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Of all the things to worry that Brexit might be crowding out consideration of, House of Lords reform must be near the bottom of the list.

    If the government had any street smarts, it would be commissioning some of the experts in the House of Lords to report on a whole host of pressing disparate technical matters. Keep those idle hands busy and they won't have time to make mischief.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,909
    TGOHF said:

    I've heard a few blacksmiths, farriers and coopers are under pressure too.
    Farrier was captured at the end of "Dunkirk" :(
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    The DExEu Committee has heard evidence today from HMRC that max fac will cost businesses £17 to £20 BILLION a year in customs declaration fees.

    Another day, another flashing red light.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/may/23/pmqs-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-gove-ministers-accused-of-putting-country-in-jeopardy-through-cabinet-infighting-politics-live

    Cancel Brexit now. It’s a catastrophe.

    ho hum

    one minute max fac is the busllshit system no one can describe, next minute someone has costed it
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,909
    Pulpstar said:

    We need a Senate, with just 25 wholly elected Senators from each country.

    Interesting idea but England would be woefully under-represented. How about 5 or 6 English regions (say North, Midlands, East, South West, South (exc. London), and London - I am sure the detail could be argued over)? That way Scotland, NI and Wales are still over represented but not massively so.
    3.113 million Wales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales 8,023 sq miles
    5.289 million SW https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_West_England 9,200 sq miles
    5.415 million Scotland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland 30,090 sq miles
    5.847 million E https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_of_England 7,380 sq miles
    8.635 million SE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_East_England 7,373 sq miles
    8.788 million L https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London 607 sq miles
    10.35 million M https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Midlands 11,034 sq miles
    14.934 million N https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_England 14,414 sq miles

    There should probably be a split for Northern England of the Northwest AND North East & Yorkshire & the Humber (The NE is even lower in pop than Wales)
    The East and West Midlands should probably also be split.
    Such regions already "exist":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_England
  • RobD said:

    Quick question - to whom should I submit a draft article? It is about a bet on the US elections.

    You could message Mike directly -- https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/MikeSmithson

    Although I'm not sure if he monitors that inbox.
    Thank you.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    edited May 2018
    TGOHF said:

    I've heard a few blacksmiths, farriers and coopers are under pressure too.
    So freighting of physical goods is now outmoded, is it?

    As the PB Tories say, “Its a view”.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    why the sudden change of heart ?

    remainers didn't give a shit when lorry drivers were being undercut by east European competition and put out of business

    what has changed ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,840

    Pulpstar said:

    We need a Senate, with just 25 wholly elected Senators from each country.

    Interesting idea but England would be woefully under-represented. How about 5 or 6 English regions (say North, Midlands, East, South West, South (exc. London), and London - I am sure the detail could be argued over)? That way Scotland, NI and Wales are still over represented but not massively so.
    3.113 million Wales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales 8,023 sq miles
    5.289 million SW https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_West_England 9,200 sq miles
    5.415 million Scotland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland 30,090 sq miles
    5.847 million E https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_of_England 7,380 sq miles
    8.635 million SE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_East_England 7,373 sq miles
    8.788 million L https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London 607 sq miles
    10.35 million M https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Midlands 11,034 sq miles
    14.934 million N https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_England 14,414 sq miles

    There should probably be a split for Northern England of the Northwest AND North East & Yorkshire & the Humber (The NE is even lower in pop than Wales)
    The East and West Midlands should probably also be split.
    Such regions already "exist":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_England
    Yes, but I think the North East region is a bit too small by population to merit it's own bod in this setup.
    Though a general northern region is too large with almost 15 million people. Having the north as 2 regions with ~ 7 - 8 million people each would work.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    Haven’t got time. Got a tidal wave of export orders to get out by month end. Really.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,232
    RobD said:

    The DExEu Committee has heard evidence today from HMRC that max fac will cost businesses £17 to £20 BILLION a year in customs declaration fees.

    Another day, another flashing red light.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/may/23/pmqs-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-gove-ministers-accused-of-putting-country-in-jeopardy-through-cabinet-infighting-politics-live

    Cancel Brexit now. It’s a catastrophe.

    Or reduce taxes to mitigate it, perhaps?
    What might work is if the government implements a new wave of austerity to fund the costs of Brexit. 'Aust-Brex' might be a good branding. Boris and Rees-Mogg could announce it beneath a union jack emblazoned with 'The 52%' and declare, 'We're all in it together'.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812

    why the sudden change of heart ?

    remainers didn't give a shit when lorry drivers were being undercut by east European competition and put out of business

    what has changed ?
    I don’t remember your thread on it.
    What’s changed?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    I've heard a few blacksmiths, farriers and coopers are under pressure too.
    So freighting of physical goods is now outmoded, is it?

    As the PB Tories say, “Its a view”.
    No but truck drivers are nearly there...

    See also train drivers.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    I've heard a few blacksmiths, farriers and coopers are under pressure too.
    So freighting of physical goods is now outmoded, is it?

    As the PB Tories say, “Its a view”.
    No but truck drivers are nearly there...

    See also train drivers.
    I have no idea what you’re talking about.

    But you seem to be implying we don’t need to bother with goods import/export.

    Clearly a subscriber to the Minford school of economics.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,669

    The DExEu Committee has heard evidence today from HMRC that max fac will cost businesses £17 to £20 BILLION a year in customs declaration fees.

    Another day, another flashing red light.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/may/23/pmqs-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-gove-ministers-accused-of-putting-country-in-jeopardy-through-cabinet-infighting-politics-live

    Cancel Brexit now. It’s a catastrophe.

    ho hum

    one minute max fac is the busllshit system no one can describe, next minute someone has costed it
    Not just 'someone' but HMRC.
    Still, doesn't seem to worry you.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    RobD said:

    We need a Senate, with just 25 wholly elected Senators from each country.

    How about 2 Senators from each County (or similarly defined equal-population region). Elected in alternate elections by FPTP or AV.
    Because Scotland has about as many counties as England.
    Hence my bit in brackets about similarly defined population regions. There are I believe 48 counties in England which would make 96 Senators in my proposal, 48 elected each election. On that basis Scotland even Scotland would get 5 if we pro-rata popultation, make it 6 (3 per election) and Wales/NI get 4 (2 per election).

    Equalise the boundaries so they're all the same(ish) population and we've got a Senate of 110 members with 55 elected each election.

    If 100 is good enough for the USA then 110 ought to be good enough for the UK.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    I've heard a few blacksmiths, farriers and coopers are under pressure too.
    So freighting of physical goods is now outmoded, is it?

    As the PB Tories say, “Its a view”.
    No but truck drivers are nearly there...

    See also train drivers.
    I have no idea what you’re talking about.

    But you seem to be implying we don’t need to bother with goods import/export.

    Clearly a subscriber to the Minford school of economics.
    We do - but the job of truck driver will be a thing of the past in 30 years time.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    why the sudden change of heart ?

    remainers didn't give a shit when lorry drivers were being undercut by east European competition and put out of business

    what has changed ?
    I don’t remember your thread on it.
    What’s changed?
    so basically you still don't give a shit
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,840
    edited May 2018
    O/T My colleague is in the bizarre situation that her mortgage company is unhappy with her doubling ground rent (Every 10 years) being changed to one that rises by rpi.
  • The DExEu Committee has heard evidence today from HMRC that max fac will cost businesses £17 to £20 BILLION a year in customs declaration fees.

    Another day, another flashing red light.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/may/23/pmqs-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-gove-ministers-accused-of-putting-country-in-jeopardy-through-cabinet-infighting-politics-live

    Cancel Brexit now. It’s a catastrophe.

    ho hum

    one minute max fac is the busllshit system no one can describe, next minute someone has costed it
    The problem with any financial forecast is that it is all about the inputs rather than the output. And the problem with the inputs is that it will invariably, consciously or subconsciously, reflect the biases of the person building the model. It was why I was so sceptical of Osborne's claims pre-referendum about the catastrophic hit to GDP. I could have taken that same model and produced one, probably within 30 minutes, that showed Brexit would mean a massive boost to our economy.

    At least with the one mentioned it looks as though HMRC has been transparent on some of the key inputs.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    The DExEu Committee has heard evidence today from HMRC that max fac will cost businesses £17 to £20 BILLION a year in customs declaration fees.

    Another day, another flashing red light.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/may/23/pmqs-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-gove-ministers-accused-of-putting-country-in-jeopardy-through-cabinet-infighting-politics-live

    Cancel Brexit now. It’s a catastrophe.

    ho hum

    one minute max fac is the busllshit system no one can describe, next minute someone has costed it
    Not just 'someone' but HMRC.
    Still, doesn't seem to worry you.
    no it doesn't

    how can you cost something when you don't know what it is
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Walker, honestly, I'd want to actually delve deeply into the figures to see if I thought they were approximately credible or just utter tosh. (The Lammy comments about 2% of Oxford students being black, when apparently only 1.8% of black kids get the necessary grades, is just another reminder of the importance of having adequate information before making judgements).

    I'm not willing to take prophecies of doom at face value. I just don't trust the political class, or the media, sufficiently. Rather sad, actually, but there we are.

    Mr. Jessop, I was thinking much the same.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    The DExEu Committee has heard evidence today from HMRC that max fac will cost businesses £17 to £20 BILLION a year in customs declaration fees.

    Another day, another flashing red light.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/may/23/pmqs-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-gove-ministers-accused-of-putting-country-in-jeopardy-through-cabinet-infighting-politics-live

    Cancel Brexit now. It’s a catastrophe.

    ho hum

    one minute max fac is the busllshit system no one can describe, next minute someone has costed it
    Not just 'someone' but HMRC.
    Still, doesn't seem to worry you.
    Well if HMRC can cost it then the system isn't bullshit afterall and all the squealing that it was ... was the real bullshit.

    Still, doesn't seem to worry you.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    The DExEu Committee has heard evidence today from HMRC that max fac will cost businesses £17 to £20 BILLION a year in customs declaration fees.

    Another day, another flashing red light.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/may/23/pmqs-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-gove-ministers-accused-of-putting-country-in-jeopardy-through-cabinet-infighting-politics-live

    Cancel Brexit now. It’s a catastrophe.

    ho hum

    one minute max fac is the busllshit system no one can describe, next minute someone has costed it
    Not just 'someone' but HMRC.
    Still, doesn't seem to worry you.
    no it doesn't

    how can you cost something when you don't know what it is
    OMG - you represent the full horror of the Brexit patriarchy !
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812

    why the sudden change of heart ?

    remainers didn't give a shit when lorry drivers were being undercut by east European competition and put out of business

    what has changed ?
    I don’t remember your thread on it.
    What’s changed?
    so basically you still don't give a shit
    You’re changing the subject. But what we must assume is that you certainly don’t give a shit about today’s drivers.

    Just more fodder for your mad scheme.
    The real Alanbrook wasn’t such a shit strategist, nor so cavalier.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Pulpstar said:

    O/T My colleague is in the bizarre situation that her mortgage company is unhappy with her doubling ground rent (Every 10 years) being changed to one that rises by rpi.

    If RPI exceeds 7% (which it has in the past) then that makes sense. Wouldn't expect it to much any time soon but it could of course.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,840
    edited May 2018

    Pulpstar said:

    O/T My colleague is in the bizarre situation that her mortgage company is unhappy with her doubling ground rent (Every 10 years) being changed to one that rises by rpi.

    If RPI exceeds 7% (which it has in the past) then that makes sense. Wouldn't expect it to much any time soon but it could of course.
    She'll have the mortgage paid off in 7 years and the reviews are every 10 for the rent.
    I suppose if Corbyn...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812

    The DExEu Committee has heard evidence today from HMRC that max fac will cost businesses £17 to £20 BILLION a year in customs declaration fees.

    Another day, another flashing red light.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/may/23/pmqs-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-gove-ministers-accused-of-putting-country-in-jeopardy-through-cabinet-infighting-politics-live

    Cancel Brexit now. It’s a catastrophe.

    ho hum

    one minute max fac is the busllshit system no one can describe, next minute someone has costed it
    The problem with any financial forecast is that it is all about the inputs rather than the output. And the problem with the inputs is that it will invariably, consciously or subconsciously, reflect the biases of the person building the model. It was why I was so sceptical of Osborne's claims pre-referendum about the catastrophic hit to GDP. I could have taken that same model and produced one, probably within 30 minutes, that showed Brexit would mean a massive boost to our economy.

    At least with the one mentioned it looks as though HMRC has been transparent on some of the key inputs.
    Except that *nobody* is predicting a Brexit boost except a few climate nuts and holocausr deniers.
  • Mr. Walker, honestly, I'd want to actually delve deeply into the figures to see if I thought they were approximately credible or just utter tosh. (The Lammy comments about 2% of Oxford students being black, when apparently only 1.8% of black kids get the necessary grades, is just another reminder of the importance of having adequate information before making judgements).

    I'm not willing to take prophecies of doom at face value. I just don't trust the political class, or the media, sufficiently. Rather sad, actually, but there we are.

    Mr. Jessop, I was thinking much the same.

    I went to Oxford. My parents were unemployed and, when I went up, more children from Eton went to Oxbridge than those who were eligible for Free School Meals across the whole of the UK. However, as a white male, I would be seen as less of an example of opening up Oxford to a greater range of more diverse backgrounds than, in the eyes of Lammy, a black old Etonian from a privileged background just because he is black or, in the eyes of Harriet Harman et al, the daughter of a Duke (or the niece of an Earl) just because she is a woman. To be fair to Lammy, he is probably less guilty than Harman as he does seem to care about the poor.

    It is why I really despise the modern Left.

  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    Mr. Walker, honestly, I'd want to actually delve deeply into the figures to see if I thought they were approximately credible or just utter tosh. (The Lammy comments about 2% of Oxford students being black, when apparently only 1.8% of black kids get the necessary grades, is just another reminder of the importance of having adequate information before making judgements).

    I'm not willing to take prophecies of doom at face value. I just don't trust the political class, or the media, sufficiently. Rather sad, actually, but there we are.

    Mr. Jessop, I was thinking much the same.

    Quite. We were told the world would end if we didn’t join the Euro. There were no end of business leaders saying they’d pack their factories up and leave on the first shuttle train through the Chunnel. It was bollocks then and so we should be forgiven for being a tad skeptical at all the prophesies of doom retweeted from the latest bod to bewail the fact the people were pissed off with the EU.

    Our firm is snowed under with work. We’ve war gamed Brexit and it’s just not a biggy either way for us, not all plain sailing for some things, some things may actively be better if we got FTA’s with our growing worldwide markets.

    The world is not about to end no matter how much some fervently wish it.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    The DExEu Committee has heard evidence today from HMRC that max fac will cost businesses £17 to £20 BILLION a year in customs declaration fees.

    Another day, another flashing red light.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/may/23/pmqs-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-gove-ministers-accused-of-putting-country-in-jeopardy-through-cabinet-infighting-politics-live

    Cancel Brexit now. It’s a catastrophe.

    ho hum

    one minute max fac is the busllshit system no one can describe, next minute someone has costed it
    The problem with any financial forecast is that it is all about the inputs rather than the output. And the problem with the inputs is that it will invariably, consciously or subconsciously, reflect the biases of the person building the model. It was why I was so sceptical of Osborne's claims pre-referendum about the catastrophic hit to GDP. I could have taken that same model and produced one, probably within 30 minutes, that showed Brexit would mean a massive boost to our economy.

    At least with the one mentioned it looks as though HMRC has been transparent on some of the key inputs.
    Except that *nobody* is predicting a Brexit boost except a few climate nuts and holocausr deniers.
    That's not true.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812

    Mr. Walker, honestly, I'd want to actually delve deeply into the figures to see if I thought they were approximately credible or just utter tosh. (The Lammy comments about 2% of Oxford students being black, when apparently only 1.8% of black kids get the necessary grades, is just another reminder of the importance of having adequate information before making judgements).

    I'm not willing to take prophecies of doom at face value. I just don't trust the political class, or the media, sufficiently. Rather sad, actually, but there we are.

    Mr. Jessop, I was thinking much the same.

    Except you’re not delving in.
    You’ve just got your hands over your ears.

    Healthy skepticism is...healthy.
    But as we see with Corbyn and the Salisbury poisoning, there’s a point where it becomes stupidity, madness, or malevolence.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    why the sudden change of heart ?

    remainers didn't give a shit when lorry drivers were being undercut by east European competition and put out of business

    what has changed ?
    I don’t remember your thread on it.
    What’s changed?
    so basically you still don't give a shit
    You’re changing the subject. But what we must assume is that you certainly don’t give a shit about today’s drivers.

    Just more fodder for your mad scheme.
    The real Alanbrook wasn’t such a shit strategist, nor so cavalier.
    I think youll find Ive consistently argued the case for the small employer over the years

    being called a Poujadist by corporate groupie Mr Meeks was one of my finer achievements

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Cabinet, indeed. I've heard that Lammy raised comparable stats for Welsh kids that no Welsh MP had raised.

    Class/poverty must be considered when making sweeping statements about demographics (race, in this case), otherwise the proposed remedy might be for a problem that doesn't exist, or is misunderstood.

    The deranged view that white people can't be disadvantaged or the victims of prejudice is one of the reasons Rotherham went on for so long.
  • The DExEu Committee has heard evidence today from HMRC that max fac will cost businesses £17 to £20 BILLION a year in customs declaration fees.

    Another day, another flashing red light.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/may/23/pmqs-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-gove-ministers-accused-of-putting-country-in-jeopardy-through-cabinet-infighting-politics-live

    Cancel Brexit now. It’s a catastrophe.

    ho hum

    one minute max fac is the busllshit system no one can describe, next minute someone has costed it
    The problem with any financial forecast is that it is all about the inputs rather than the output. And the problem with the inputs is that it will invariably, consciously or subconsciously, reflect the biases of the person building the model. It was why I was so sceptical of Osborne's claims pre-referendum about the catastrophic hit to GDP. I could have taken that same model and produced one, probably within 30 minutes, that showed Brexit would mean a massive boost to our economy.

    At least with the one mentioned it looks as though HMRC has been transparent on some of the key inputs.
    Except that *nobody* is predicting a Brexit boost except a few climate nuts and holocausr deniers.
    That wasn't my point. It is that, before you can take an informed view on any forecast, you have to had a knowledge about what assumptions have been made. I'm an equities analyst. If I made a stock recommendation and said to a client "sorry I'm not telling you what assumptions I have made and you can't take a look at the model", I would be kicked out of the room.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Walker, it's almost as if I'm trying to get some work done and don't have hours to waste on something guaranteed to make me no money.

    You want to make a case, go ahead. Complaining about me not doing enough research to satisfy you isn't convincing me how right you are.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    welshowl said:

    Mr. Walker, honestly, I'd want to actually delve deeply into the figures to see if I thought they were approximately credible or just utter tosh. (The Lammy comments about 2% of Oxford students being black, when apparently only 1.8% of black kids get the necessary grades, is just another reminder of the importance of having adequate information before making judgements).

    I'm not willing to take prophecies of doom at face value. I just don't trust the political class, or the media, sufficiently. Rather sad, actually, but there we are.

    Mr. Jessop, I was thinking much the same.

    Quite. We were told the world would end if we didn’t join the Euro. There were no end of business leaders saying they’d pack their factories up and leave on the first shuttle train through the Chunnel. It was bollocks then and so we should be forgiven for being a tad skeptical at all the prophesies of doom retweeted from the latest bod to bewail the fact the people were pissed off with the EU.

    Our firm is snowed under with work. We’ve war gamed Brexit and it’s just not a biggy either way for us, not all plain sailing for some things, some things may actively be better if we got FTA’s with our growing worldwide markets.

    The world is not about to end no matter how much some fervently wish it.
    What business are you in?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    edited May 2018

    welshowl said:

    Mr. Walker, honestly, I'd want to actually delve deeply into the figures to see if I thought they were approximately credible or just utter tosh. (The Lammy comments about 2% of Oxford students being black, when apparently only 1.8% of black kids get the necessary grades, is just another reminder of the importance of having adequate information before making judgements).

    I'm not willing to take prophecies of doom at face value. I just don't trust the political class, or the media, sufficiently. Rather sad, actually, but there we are.

    Mr. Jessop, I was thinking much the same.

    Quite. We were told the world would end if we didn’t join the Euro. There were no end of business leaders saying they’d pack their factories up and leave on the first shuttle train through the Chunnel. It was bollocks then and so we should be forgiven for being a tad skeptical at all the prophesies of doom retweeted from the latest bod to bewail the fact the people were pissed off with the EU.

    Our firm is snowed under with work. We’ve war gamed Brexit and it’s just not a biggy either way for us, not all plain sailing for some things, some things may actively be better if we got FTA’s with our growing worldwide markets.

    The world is not about to end no matter how much some fervently wish it.
    What business are you in?
    Engineering/manufacturing depends on your definition.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    This Grenfell Tower 'inquiry' is getting a little odd.

    Letting victims and the relatives of victims give evidence about the personal effects of the tragedy may provide good media, and may (or may not) help in the grieving process; however I fail to see how it will actually help get to the truth over what happened, or prevent any such incidents in the future.

    Or am I being too harsh?

    I agree with you.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,840

    The DExEu Committee has heard evidence today from HMRC that max fac will cost businesses £17 to £20 BILLION a year in customs declaration fees.

    Another day, another flashing red light.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/may/23/pmqs-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-gove-ministers-accused-of-putting-country-in-jeopardy-through-cabinet-infighting-politics-live

    Cancel Brexit now. It’s a catastrophe.

    ho hum

    one minute max fac is the busllshit system no one can describe, next minute someone has costed it
    The problem with any financial forecast is that it is all about the inputs rather than the output. And the problem with the inputs is that it will invariably, consciously or subconsciously, reflect the biases of the person building the model. It was why I was so sceptical of Osborne's claims pre-referendum about the catastrophic hit to GDP. I could have taken that same model and produced one, probably within 30 minutes, that showed Brexit would mean a massive boost to our economy.

    At least with the one mentioned it looks as though HMRC has been transparent on some of the key inputs.
    Except that *nobody* is predicting a Brexit boost except a few climate nuts and holocausr deniers.
    That wasn't my point. It is that, before you can take an informed view on any forecast, you have to had a knowledge about what assumptions have been made. I'm an equities analyst. If I made a stock recommendation and said to a client "sorry I'm not telling you what assumptions I have made and you can't take a look at the model", I would be kicked out of the room.
    What are your thoughts on US airlines :) ?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812

    Mr. Walker, it's almost as if I'm trying to get some work done and don't have hours to waste on something guaranteed to make me no money.

    You want to make a case, go ahead. Complaining about me not doing enough research to satisfy you isn't convincing me how right you are.

    Mr Dancer, I simply posted a link to a news report which included testimony from one part of government to a parliamentary select committee.

    You are the one who are dismissing it outright because it doesn’t fit with your worldview.
    It’s not for me to convince you. It’s for you to convince the rest of us why any evidence you don’t like should be automatically pooh-poohed.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Walker, the Remain campaign did a great job of persuading me the establishment can widely exaggerate the woes and dooms of leaving the EU and actually governing ourselves.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    AndyJS said:

    This Grenfell Tower 'inquiry' is getting a little odd.

    Letting victims and the relatives of victims give evidence about the personal effects of the tragedy may provide good media, and may (or may not) help in the grieving process; however I fail to see how it will actually help get to the truth over what happened, or prevent any such incidents in the future.

    Or am I being too harsh?

    I agree with you.
    It’s a little weird, and there’s clearly a group of people with political motivation for their comments.

    I’d have run first a technical enquiry along the lines of a transport accident investigation, followed by an inquest where those involved can make their statements based on the known facts of the case.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    I've heard a few blacksmiths, farriers and coopers are under pressure too.
    So freighting of physical goods is now outmoded, is it?

    As the PB Tories say, “Its a view”.
    No but truck drivers are nearly there...

    See also train drivers.
    I have no idea what you’re talking about.

    But you seem to be implying we don’t need to bother with goods import/export.

    Clearly a subscriber to the Minford school of economics.
    It's the Patrick Minford school of Brexit - the UK's physical goods trade goes down the pan.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    Mr. Walker, honestly, I'd want to actually delve deeply into the figures to see if I thought they were approximately credible or just utter tosh. (The Lammy comments about 2% of Oxford students being black, when apparently only 1.8% of black kids get the necessary grades, is just another reminder of the importance of having adequate information before making judgements).

    I'm not willing to take prophecies of doom at face value. I just don't trust the political class, or the media, sufficiently. Rather sad, actually, but there we are.

    Mr. Jessop, I was thinking much the same.

    Quite. We were told the world would end if we didn’t join the Euro. There were no end of business leaders saying they’d pack their factories up and leave on the first shuttle train through the Chunnel. It was bollocks then and so we should be forgiven for being a tad skeptical at all the prophesies of doom retweeted from the latest bod to bewail the fact the people were pissed off with the EU.

    Our firm is snowed under with work. We’ve war gamed Brexit and it’s just not a biggy either way for us, not all plain sailing for some things, some things may actively be better if we got FTA’s with our growing worldwide markets.

    The world is not about to end no matter how much some fervently wish it.
    What business are you in?
    Engineering/manufacturing depends on your definition.

    Then one presumes you have been paying closer attention to the customs union than others? Can you share any substantive details of your wargaming?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    Mr. Walker, honestly, I'd want to actually delve deeply into the figures to see if I thought they were approximately credible or just utter tosh. (The Lammy comments about 2% of Oxford students being black, when apparently only 1.8% of black kids get the necessary grades, is just another reminder of the importance of having adequate information before making judgements).

    I'm not willing to take prophecies of doom at face value. I just don't trust the political class, or the media, sufficiently. Rather sad, actually, but there we are.

    Mr. Jessop, I was thinking much the same.

    Quite. We were told the world would end if we didn’t join the Euro. There were no end of business leaders saying they’d pack their factories up and leave on the first shuttle train through the Chunnel. It was bollocks then and so we should be forgiven for being a tad skeptical at all the prophesies of doom retweeted from the latest bod to bewail the fact the people were pissed off with the EU.

    Our firm is snowed under with work. We’ve war gamed Brexit and it’s just not a biggy either way for us, not all plain sailing for some things, some things may actively be better if we got FTA’s with our growing worldwide markets.

    The world is not about to end no matter how much some fervently wish it.
    What business are you in?
    Engineering/manufacturing depends on your definition.

    Dear god man get off PB and get to work.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,545
    TGOHF said:
    Odd how Brexiteers are suddenly much less keen on parliamentary sovereignty when parliament takes decisions they disagree with.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    A totally elected Upper House is a recipe for constitutional gridlock. No thanks.

    A totally elected Upper House is a recipe for constitutional gridlock. Yes please.
    There's no government like no government.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    rcs1000 said:

    A totally elected Upper House is a recipe for constitutional gridlock. No thanks.

    A totally elected Upper House is a recipe for constitutional gridlock. Yes please.
    There's no government like no government.
    Italy says you’re wrong.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    With apologies to OGH for jumping off topic, I've just read this article by Michelle Goldberg that efficiently and scarily underscores Trump's superficiality in his recent Korean bluster

    https://tinyurl.com/yafz5lyt
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    RobD said:

    Quick question - to whom should I submit a draft article? It is about a bet on the US elections.

    You could message Mike directly -- https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/MikeSmithson

    Although I'm not sure if he monitors that inbox.
    Thank you.
    Alternatively, you could email him using his first name at politicalbetting.com

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    TGOHF said:
    Odd how Brexiteers are suddenly much less keen on parliamentary sovereignty when parliament takes decisions they disagree with.
    Odd how many Remainers wilfully misunderstand the meaning of Parliamentary sovereignty when they think it suits their cause.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    We need a Senate, with just 25 wholly elected Senators from each country.

    I will oppose any House of Lords reform that renames it the Senate or calls its members Senators.

    We are *not* a republic. Peers, Member of the Lords.. anything but Senator.

    These things matter.
    I can’t believe I’m saying this but....I agree with you.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715

    welshowl said:

    Mr. Walker, honestly, I'd want to actually delve deeply into the figures to see if I thought they were approximately credible or just utter tosh. (The Lammy comments about 2% of Oxford students being black, when apparently only 1.8% of black kids get the necessary grades, is just another reminder of the importance of having adequate information before making judgements).

    I'm not willing to take prophecies of doom at face value. I just don't trust the political class, or the media, sufficiently. Rather sad, actually, but there we are.

    Mr. Jessop, I was thinking much the same.

    Quite. We were told the world would end if we didn’t join the Euro. There were no end of business leaders saying they’d pack their factories up and leave on the first shuttle train through the Chunnel. It was bollocks then and so we should be forgiven for being a tad skeptical at all the prophesies of doom retweeted from the latest bod to bewail the fact the people were pissed off with the EU.

    Our firm is snowed under with work. We’ve war gamed Brexit and it’s just not a biggy either way for us, not all plain sailing for some things, some things may actively be better if we got FTA’s with our growing worldwide markets.

    The world is not about to end no matter how much some fervently wish it.
    What business are you in?
    There’s an IF in a particularly important place!
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Also, I totally agree with Nigel B on Jordan Peterson. Then again, I don’t really like any of figures in the so-called ‘intellectual dark web’.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    This Grenfell Tower 'inquiry' is getting a little odd.

    Letting victims and the relatives of victims give evidence about the personal effects of the tragedy may provide good media, and may (or may not) help in the grieving process; however I fail to see how it will actually help get to the truth over what happened, or prevent any such incidents in the future.

    Or am I being too harsh?

    You have victim impact statements in court before sentencing. I don't think it does any harm whatsoever for the inquiry to hear right at the outset just what the tragedy has meant for the victims and their families.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    This Grenfell Tower 'inquiry' is getting a little odd.

    Letting victims and the relatives of victims give evidence about the personal effects of the tragedy may provide good media, and may (or may not) help in the grieving process; however I fail to see how it will actually help get to the truth over what happened, or prevent any such incidents in the future.

    Or am I being too harsh?

    You have victim impact statements in court before sentencing. I don't think it does any harm whatsoever for the inquiry to hear right at the outset just what the tragedy has meant for the victims and their families.
    I think this is right - it will inform to an extent any penalties or sanctions against anyone found to be culpable.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    This Grenfell Tower 'inquiry' is getting a little odd.

    Letting victims and the relatives of victims give evidence about the personal effects of the tragedy may provide good media, and may (or may not) help in the grieving process; however I fail to see how it will actually help get to the truth over what happened, or prevent any such incidents in the future.

    Or am I being too harsh?

    You have victim impact statements in court before sentencing. I don't think it does any harm whatsoever for the inquiry to hear right at the outset just what the tragedy has meant for the victims and their families.
    Agreed.
This discussion has been closed.