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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A good day for backers of Michael Gove

SystemSystem Posts: 11,003
edited June 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A good day for backers of Michael Gove

In the last 24 hours the major betting news has been Michael Gove becoming the favourite in the next Tory leader market, both Betfair and Ladbrokes have seen this shift.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Seems government position is Comcast bid for Sky is absolutely fine, 21CF bid will be accepted if they divest Sky News. But they can divest it to Disney, which is looking to take-over 21CF.

    So basically a fudge, that means little in reality. Disney can buy 21CF, which buys Sky, while selling Sky News to Disney.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,834
    Not laying the favourite now!
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    eekeek Posts: 24,927
    And any of those 3 will pay for a very nice meal out.... Javid would pay for a weekend in the Lakes...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    edited June 2018
    Gove is a brilliant Cabinet Minister but would be a disaster as Tory leader, his yougov rating is -65% and he polls the worst of any politician Tory, Labour or LD in frontrank politics today.


    https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Michael_Gove

    Gove also still trails Mogg in the ConHome members poll anyway and Javid is gaining on him fast
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Yougov poll - Con 42 Lab 39 LD 9 UKIP 3
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,894
    Heathrow legislation is almost bound to pass. It has support outside the Tories from Timms to the SNP.
    On Gove, yes keep him onside.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,834
    edited June 2018
    Scott_P said:

    ttps://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1003990310785974272

    ttps://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1003990794083160064

    With the SNP and a lot of Labour MPs supporting the expansion, getting the new runway through the Commons should now be easy. Shame it wasn’t done a decade ago.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,955
    justin124 said:

    Yougov poll - Con 42 Lab 39 LD 9 UKIP 3

    Strong 'n Stable! :p
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    To my mind the current value amongst the frontrunners is Javid. Though it's still hard to see why anyone would want to take over right now, apart from the whole getting-to-be-Prime-Minister thing.
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    eekeek Posts: 24,927
    HYUFD said:

    Gove is a brilliant Cabinet Minister but would be a disaster as Tory leader, his yougov rating is -65% and he polls the worst of any politician Tory, Labour or LD in frontrank politics today.


    https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Michael_Gove

    Gove also still trails Mogg in the ConHome members poll anyway and Javid is gaining on him fast

    Javid has to be the logical choice at the moment. Of course in another 6 months once the next Home Office disaster hits.

    I actually don't think it will be Gove unless things move very quickly. Come August when what seems to be a disaster of a GCSE exam change is revealed I suspect his name won't be quite so popular
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,491
    eek said:

    And any of those 3 will pay for a very nice meal out.... Javid would pay for a weekend in the Lakes...

    Don't plan to go by Northern Rail!
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    Impressed to see nettles being grasped... Almost a sod it let's do stuff and if we go down at least we stopped faffing about at last.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    Ms crouch still under the radar..... Good good
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    To my mind the current value amongst the frontrunners is Javid. Though it's still hard to see why anyone would want to take over right now, apart from the whole getting-to-be-Prime-Minister thing.

    There've been worse times. As a rule, when it comes good for the new PM, it comes very good.
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    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,578
    HYUFD said:

    Gove is a brilliant Cabinet Minister but would be a disaster as Tory leader, his yougov rating is -65% and he polls the worst of any politician Tory, Labour or LD in frontrank politics today.


    https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Michael_Gove

    Gove also still trails Mogg in the ConHome members poll anyway and Javid is gaining on him fast

    It's amazing that Gove is thought of as a serious contender. His record of betrayal is second to none in British politics today, as David Cameron, Boris Johnson and the British fishing industry could testify. And this is the man who told us with a straight face that if we voted leave the UK would hold all the negotiating cards and be able to dictate terms to the EU!
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Impressed to see nettles being grasped... Almost a sod it let's do stuff and if we go down at least we stopped faffing about at last.

    Agreed , lot better than Cameron , against in opposition , then not able to make his mind up in government.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,241
    eek said:

    And any of those 3 will pay for a very nice meal out.... Javid would pay for a weekend in the Lakes...

    Hunt would be my biggest ever winner in any sport.

    I’ve got £150 on him at 100/1 and above plus a decent wodge on him at 66/1
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Seems government position is Comcast bid for Sky is absolutely fine, 21CF bid will be accepted if they divest Sky News. But they can divest it to Disney, which is looking to take-over 21CF.

    So basically a fudge, that means little in reality. Disney can buy 21CF, which buys Sky, while selling Sky News to Disney.

    Though Disney don't own any national newspapers so there's not the same media issue with them.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    This market's so crazy I'm half-tempted to check the price of Ivanka Trump.

    Keep an eye on Hammond. I know no-one likes him but depending on when May goes, looking like the only adult in the room might help. Otherwise, yes, Javid or Hunt. JRM can still be kingmaker so Gove cannot be ruled out completely.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,834

    eek said:

    And any of those 3 will pay for a very nice meal out.... Javid would pay for a weekend in the Lakes...

    Hunt would be my biggest ever winner in any sport.

    I’ve got £150 on him at 100/1 and above plus a decent wodge on him at 66/1
    That’s a fantastic bet! I’ve been doing more laying than backing, but am green with you on the three main contenders from the header, and red on JRM, Johnson and Davidson (and Rudd, Patel etc).
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    To my mind the current value amongst the frontrunners is Javid. Though it's still hard to see why anyone would want to take over right now, apart from the whole getting-to-be-Prime-Minister thing.

    There've been worse times. As a rule, when it comes good for the new PM, it comes very good.
    That's true. If the Brexit needle can be threaded (i.e. a deal that isn't seen as a sellout or a humiliation) then you'd expect to see a bump in the polls for whoever's in charge, given the semi-apocalyptic expectations.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited June 2018
    Labour usual suspects are now very angry at the government for ruling that Sky News be divested....
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,196

    To my mind the current value amongst the frontrunners is Javid. Though it's still hard to see why anyone would want to take over right now, apart from the whole getting-to-be-Prime-Minister thing.

    There've been worse times. As a rule, when it comes good for the new PM, it comes very good.
    That's true. If the Brexit needle can be threaded (i.e. a deal that isn't seen as a sellout or a humiliation) then you'd expect to see a bump in the polls for whoever's in charge, given the semi-apocalyptic expectations.
    Yes there's definitely a Brexit political dividend the question is who will collect it? If by GE2022 we are still in some kind of implementation/transition period then Lab can essentially do a GFA whereby the Cons do all the legwork and Lab take the credit (hand of history, etc).
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,241
    HYUFD said:

    Gove is a brilliant Cabinet Minister but would be a disaster as Tory leader, his yougov rating is -65% and he polls the worst of any politician Tory, Labour or LD in frontrank politics today.


    https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Michael_Gove

    Gove also still trails Mogg in the ConHome members poll anyway and Javid is gaining on him fast

    That rating is based on just the last 100 respondent so is even less reliable than a Scottish sub sample.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    This market's so crazy I'm half-tempted to check the price of Ivanka Trump.

    Keep an eye on Hammond. I know no-one likes him but depending on when May goes, looking like the only adult in the room might help. [snip].

    No - he has nowhere near enough support among MPs and as bad a tin ear for politics as May. He's also really dull.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,894

    This market's so crazy I'm half-tempted to check the price of Ivanka Trump.

    Keep an eye on Hammond. I know no-one likes him but depending on when May goes, looking like the only adult in the room might help. [snip].

    No - he has nowhere near enough support among MPs and as bad a tin ear for politics as May. He's also really dull.
    Well yes there is all that but it'd be brave to lay him at 54-1 I'd suggest.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Well that went well...

    https://order-order.com/2018/06/05/deactivate/

    Maomentumers will be laughing into their ethnically sources vegan friendly lattes...
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,241

    Well that went well...

    https://order-order.com/2018/06/05/deactivate/

    Maomentumers will be laughing into their ethnically sources vegan friendly lattes...

    What is it with Tory youth organisations?

    The FCS, Team 2020, now this lot.

    At least people got laid with Team 2020.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,137
    edited June 2018
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    And any of those 3 will pay for a very nice meal out.... Javid would pay for a weekend in the Lakes...

    Hunt would be my biggest ever winner in any sport.

    I’ve got £150 on him at 100/1 and above plus a decent wodge on him at 66/1
    That’s a fantastic bet! I’ve been doing more laying than backing, but am green with you on the three main contenders from the header, and red on JRM, Johnson and Davidson (and Rudd, Patel etc).
    Hunt, Mordaunt, McVey, Greening: all pay out big time for me. Javid - medium payout. Break even on most likely others, except Hammond and Davis.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,903

    Well that went well...

    https://order-order.com/2018/06/05/deactivate/

    Maomentumers will be laughing into their ethnically sources vegan friendly lattes...

    What is it with Tory youth organisations?

    The FCS, Team 2020, now this lot.

    At least people got laid with Team 2020.
    As I recall they did with the Yound Conservatives. IIRC that was most people’s reason for joining. Even in the late 50’s.

    (No I didn’t. Join, I mean!)
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,241
    So long as David Gauke doesn’t become next Tory leader.

    I know I tipped him at 100/1 but a friend got 350/1 on Betfair and I wouldn’t be able to cope in that game of oneupmanship.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    For next Conservative leader, at present my big winners are David Lidington, David Gauke, Jeremy Hunt, Sajid Javid and Esther McVey. However, I'm decently green on everyone other than Jacob Rees-Mogg. I'm hugely red on him, mind. Boris Johnson or Ruth Davidson would be disappointing too, though still winners for me. I also lose if Jeremy Corbyn or David Miliband become next Prime Minister.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,195
    Cos you got Gove
    Gove
    Gove on your side
    Cos you got Gove
    Gove
    Gove on your side

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N66cGvR5yvU
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789

    Well that went well...

    https://order-order.com/2018/06/05/deactivate/

    Maomentumers will be laughing into their ethnically sources vegan friendly lattes...

    What is it with Tory youth organisations?

    The FCS, Team 2020, now this lot.

    At least people got laid with Team 2020.
    With Mark Clarke.

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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Pulpstar said:

    This market's so crazy I'm half-tempted to check the price of Ivanka Trump.

    Keep an eye on Hammond. I know no-one likes him but depending on when May goes, looking like the only adult in the room might help. [snip].

    No - he has nowhere near enough support among MPs and as bad a tin ear for politics as May. He's also really dull.
    Well yes there is all that but it'd be brave to lay him at 54-1 I'd suggest.
    Yes, perhaps. But at the moment, I'd say 54/1 is about right for Hammond.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,903

    So long as David Gauke doesn’t become next Tory leader.

    I know I tipped him at 100/1 but a friend got 350/1 on Betfair and I wouldn’t be able to cope in that game of oneupmanship.

    I’ve a feeling the guy he sacked as Chair of the Parole Board might create a problem there.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,894
    edited June 2018
    Here is my book on this one (Next PM)

    All lays:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg 6.64 £73.00 £412.00
    Boris Johnson 12.85 £6.57 £77.84
    Andrea Leadsom 25.00 £3.55 £85.20
    David Miliband 96.76 £4.87 £466.33
    Nigel Farage 400.00 £1.00 £399.00

    I am currently trying to back John McDonnell at 890-1, though sadly noone has taken up my £2.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    Or preparing for a Labour climb down next week. Corbyn and May need each other, if Labour manage to bring down May, she gets replaced with Javid who he won't be able to win against.
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited June 2018
    Isn't that close to impossible and not something the EU would ever accept anyway?!

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,894
    edited June 2018
    brendan16 said:

    Isn't that close to impossible and not something the EU would ever accept?!

    It sort of, well the whole point of a customs UNION is that you have common external tarriffs and no internal ones to the area.
    This isn't particularly difficult stuff.
    Corbyn is either being deliberately thick or trying to face both ways at once, probably both.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,917
    brendan16 said:

    Isn't that close to impossible and not something the EU would ever accept anyway?!

    No. Turkey are able to strike their own trade deals. Its a shit solution because it opens your borders to tariff free access for every country that has a trade deal with the EU but with no reciprocal rights but it does allow you to make your own trade deals.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,137
    brendan16 said:

    Isn't that close to impossible and not something the EU would ever accept anyway?!

    Labour under Corbyn are going to strike trade deals? Who with? Cuba?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606

    brendan16 said:

    Isn't that close to impossible and not something the EU would ever accept anyway?!

    Labour under Corbyn are going to strike trade deals? Who with? Cuba?
    Russia!
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    A US Congressman has claimed that Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg may have lied to Congress about how much control users have over their data.

    Congressman David Cicilline, a Democratic representative for Rhode Island, made the allegation following a report that Facebook gave Apple, Samsung and other firms "deep access" to its user data as part of a data-sharing partnership.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-data-scandal-lied-congress-david-cicilline-a8384261.html

    Zuckerberg is getting the hang of this politics lark.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,196
    MaxPB said:

    Or preparing for a Labour climb down next week. Corbyn and May need each other, if Labour manage to bring down May, she gets replaced with Javid who he won't be able to win against.
    Market says Gove.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,137
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,137
    This is brewing badly for May's government:

    https://twitter.com/MENnewsdesk/status/1004014267690049536
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    My other half's favourite joke - suitable for children of all ages - is as follows:

    Q: How does an elephant ask for a cream bun?
    A: *put your arm in front of your face and waggle your hand in the face of the child of all ages* Can I have a cream bun please?

    Gavin Williamson looks as though he's about to be asked for a cream bun.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    brendan16 said:

    Isn't that close to impossible and not something the EU would ever accept anyway?!

    Labour under Corbyn are going to strike trade deals? Who with? Cuba?
    Venezuela, like Ken Livingstone did.
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    For next Conservative leader, at present my big winners are David Lidington, David Gauke, Jeremy Hunt, Sajid Javid and Esther McVey. However, I'm decently green on everyone other than Jacob Rees-Mogg. I'm hugely red on him, mind. Boris Johnson or Ruth Davidson would be disappointing too, though still winners for me. I also lose if Jeremy Corbyn or David Miliband become next Prime Minister.

    We all lose if JC becomes PM
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Or preparing for a Labour climb down next week. Corbyn and May need each other, if Labour manage to bring down May, she gets replaced with Javid who he won't be able to win against.
    Market says Gove.
    I think it would be a Javid/Gove ticket from the ERG and other sceptics vs whoever the remainers put up. I don't think Gove is leader material and probably recognises that, he wouldn't be able to lead us into an election, for example.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @IanDunt: No not this Brexit, the other one made of unicorns. https://twitter.com/BBCNormanS/status/1004001695922311168
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    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,814
    image .
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,196
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Or preparing for a Labour climb down next week. Corbyn and May need each other, if Labour manage to bring down May, she gets replaced with Javid who he won't be able to win against.
    Market says Gove.
    I think it would be a Javid/Gove ticket from the ERG and other sceptics vs whoever the remainers put up. I don't think Gove is leader material and probably recognises that, he wouldn't be able to lead us into an election, for example.
    Not 100% sure some of the Remainers would stand for that. There was pent-up anger last time. So what would they do, you might ask? Not sure is the answer - many of them have never defied the whip, never voted against the government but might, like, ahem, some Cons supporters, feel that the party would no longer be one they could identify with.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Why are American 10 year bonds at 2.9 compared to 1.3 for the UK?

    https://tradingeconomics.com/italy/government-bond-yield
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Or preparing for a Labour climb down next week. Corbyn and May need each other, if Labour manage to bring down May, she gets replaced with Javid who he won't be able to win against.
    Market says Gove.
    I think it would be a Javid/Gove ticket from the ERG and other sceptics vs whoever the remainers put up. I don't think Gove is leader material and probably recognises that, he wouldn't be able to lead us into an election, for example.
    Not 100% sure some of the Remainers would stand for that. There was pent-up anger last time. So what would they do, you might ask? Not sure is the answer - many of them have never defied the whip, never voted against the government but might, like, ahem, some Cons supporters, feel that the party would no longer be one they could identify with.
    Javid was a remainer and he'd be PM. Why wouldn't they stand for that? I also think they'd get a huge win among the members so MPs who don't like it would have to live with it.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Or preparing for a Labour climb down next week. Corbyn and May need each other, if Labour manage to bring down May, she gets replaced with Javid who he won't be able to win against.
    Market says Gove.
    I think it would be a Javid/Gove ticket from the ERG and other sceptics vs whoever the remainers put up. I don't think Gove is leader material and probably recognises that, he wouldn't be able to lead us into an election, for example.
    Not 100% sure some of the Remainers would stand for that. There was pent-up anger last time. So what would they do, you might ask? Not sure is the answer - many of them have never defied the whip, never voted against the government but might, like, ahem, some Cons supporters, feel that the party would no longer be one they could identify with.
    Isnt the standard response at this stage to say fk off and join UKIP ?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    AndyJS said:

    Why are American 10 year bonds at 2.9 compared to 1.3 for the UK?

    https://tradingeconomics.com/italy/government-bond-yield

    Interest rates and expectations.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,894
    AndyJS said:

    Why are American 10 year bonds at 2.9 compared to 1.3 for the UK?

    https://tradingeconomics.com/italy/government-bond-yield

    Their interest rates are 1.75% compared to our 0.5% at the moment.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,196
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Or preparing for a Labour climb down next week. Corbyn and May need each other, if Labour manage to bring down May, she gets replaced with Javid who he won't be able to win against.
    Market says Gove.
    I think it would be a Javid/Gove ticket from the ERG and other sceptics vs whoever the remainers put up. I don't think Gove is leader material and probably recognises that, he wouldn't be able to lead us into an election, for example.
    Not 100% sure some of the Remainers would stand for that. There was pent-up anger last time. So what would they do, you might ask? Not sure is the answer - many of them have never defied the whip, never voted against the government but might, like, ahem, some Cons supporters, feel that the party would no longer be one they could identify with.
    Javid was a remainer and he'd be PM. Why wouldn't they stand for that? I also think they'd get a huge win among the members so MPs who don't like it would have to live with it.
    Well as I said this morning, May was supposed to be a safe pair of hands and I don't see Javid as being hugely different - essentially grey but more ambitious. Your comment "a Javid/Gove ticket from the ERG" drew my response. I don't think all Cons MPs would be happy to row in behind the ERG although Lab have with Momentum, that said.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,572
    Scott_P said:
    Jesus wept. Not only do we have to put up with your constant anti-Brexit retweeting, you are now feeding us F-bloody-1 shite!
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,196

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Or preparing for a Labour climb down next week. Corbyn and May need each other, if Labour manage to bring down May, she gets replaced with Javid who he won't be able to win against.
    Market says Gove.
    I think it would be a Javid/Gove ticket from the ERG and other sceptics vs whoever the remainers put up. I don't think Gove is leader material and probably recognises that, he wouldn't be able to lead us into an election, for example.
    Not 100% sure some of the Remainers would stand for that. There was pent-up anger last time. So what would they do, you might ask? Not sure is the answer - many of them have never defied the whip, never voted against the government but might, like, ahem, some Cons supporters, feel that the party would no longer be one they could identify with.
    Isnt the standard response at this stage to say fk off and join UKIP ?
    Yep. One has to wonder about this fabled middle party - it would pick up 300 MPs from the get go if anyone got up and went.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,917
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Or preparing for a Labour climb down next week. Corbyn and May need each other, if Labour manage to bring down May, she gets replaced with Javid who he won't be able to win against.
    Market says Gove.
    I think it would be a Javid/Gove ticket from the ERG and other sceptics vs whoever the remainers put up. I don't think Gove is leader material and probably recognises that, he wouldn't be able to lead us into an election, for example.
    Not 100% sure some of the Remainers would stand for that. There was pent-up anger last time. So what would they do, you might ask? Not sure is the answer - many of them have never defied the whip, never voted against the government but might, like, ahem, some Cons supporters, feel that the party would no longer be one they could identify with.
    Then they could leave.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,917

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Or preparing for a Labour climb down next week. Corbyn and May need each other, if Labour manage to bring down May, she gets replaced with Javid who he won't be able to win against.
    Market says Gove.
    I think it would be a Javid/Gove ticket from the ERG and other sceptics vs whoever the remainers put up. I don't think Gove is leader material and probably recognises that, he wouldn't be able to lead us into an election, for example.
    Not 100% sure some of the Remainers would stand for that. There was pent-up anger last time. So what would they do, you might ask? Not sure is the answer - many of them have never defied the whip, never voted against the government but might, like, ahem, some Cons supporters, feel that the party would no longer be one they could identify with.
    Then they could leave.
    Edit. Oh I forgot, They won't leave anything no matter how bad it gets.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,572
    Sandpit said:
    Sod the air quality, increased CO2 emissions, noise and habitat destruction.

    And to think I voted for him back in the day.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Or preparing for a Labour climb down next week. Corbyn and May need each other, if Labour manage to bring down May, she gets replaced with Javid who he won't be able to win against.
    Market says Gove.
    I think it would be a Javid/Gove ticket from the ERG and other sceptics vs whoever the remainers put up. I don't think Gove is leader material and probably recognises that, he wouldn't be able to lead us into an election, for example.
    Not 100% sure some of the Remainers would stand for that. There was pent-up anger last time. So what would they do, you might ask? Not sure is the answer - many of them have never defied the whip, never voted against the government but might, like, ahem, some Cons supporters, feel that the party would no longer be one they could identify with.
    Isnt the standard response at this stage to say fk off and join UKIP ?
    Yep. One has to wonder about this fabled middle party - it would pick up 300 MPs from the get go if anyone got up and went.
    but nobody will
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,917

    This is brewing badly for May's government:

    https://twitter.com/MENnewsdesk/status/1004014267690049536

    I have not followed this in detail so I was wondering how exactly have Northern Rail screwed this up so badly? Did they introduce a timetable that they couldn't themselves meet or is there a problem because if it works it is a worse timetable than they had before. Is it interfacing with Network Rail that is the issue or is it all down to NR's internal mismanagement of their own business?
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    This is brewing badly for May's government:

    https://twitter.com/MENnewsdesk/status/1004014267690049536

    If only someone had warned Grayling to get a grip of the situation.

    He should have arranged for a Transport Summit meeting, held in the north, for last weekend, and demanded the chief execs and operations directors of the affected companies attend, together with other interested parties, and banged some heads together.

    As well as actually doing some good, he would have been seen to be doing something.

    Instead, he's just given the green light to several more billions being spent in and around London, which will be tremendous consolation to a Manchester commuter on a class 142.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,196

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Or preparing for a Labour climb down next week. Corbyn and May need each other, if Labour manage to bring down May, she gets replaced with Javid who he won't be able to win against.
    Market says Gove.
    I think it would be a Javid/Gove ticket from the ERG and other sceptics vs whoever the remainers put up. I don't think Gove is leader material and probably recognises that, he wouldn't be able to lead us into an election, for example.
    Not 100% sure some of the Remainers would stand for that. There was pent-up anger last time. So what would they do, you might ask? Not sure is the answer - many of them have never defied the whip, never voted against the government but might, like, ahem, some Cons supporters, feel that the party would no longer be one they could identify with.
    Isnt the standard response at this stage to say fk off and join UKIP ?
    Yep. One has to wonder about this fabled middle party - it would pick up 300 MPs from the get go if anyone got up and went.
    but nobody will
    No indeed.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    On-topic: if Javid became PM, then announced he'd converted to Judaism, watching the reaction of the cult would be faintly hilarious.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Or preparing for a Labour climb down next week. Corbyn and May need each other, if Labour manage to bring down May, she gets replaced with Javid who he won't be able to win against.
    Market says Gove.
    I think it would be a Javid/Gove ticket from the ERG and other sceptics vs whoever the remainers put up. I don't think Gove is leader material and probably recognises that, he wouldn't be able to lead us into an election, for example.
    Not 100% sure some of the Remainers would stand for that. There was pent-up anger last time. So what would they do, you might ask? Not sure is the answer - many of them have never defied the whip, never voted against the government but might, like, ahem, some Cons supporters, feel that the party would no longer be one they could identify with.
    Javid was a remainer and he'd be PM. Why wouldn't they stand for that? I also think they'd get a huge win among the members so MPs who don't like it would have to live with it.
    Well as I said this morning, May was supposed to be a safe pair of hands and I don't see Javid as being hugely different - essentially grey but more ambitious. Your comment "a Javid/Gove ticket from the ERG" drew my response. I don't think all Cons MPs would be happy to row in behind the ERG although Lab have with Momentum, that said.
    I think it would be pitched as a compromise ticket if it were to happen. Instead of putting their own candidate forwards the ERG would back a Javid/Gove ticket. One remainer, one leaver and the remainer in number 10. I think neither would back staying in the customs union so the remainers would want to field their own candidate who does back it, but I don't think they would be able to win the members' vote, most are too wet and many seen as serving the EU rather than the UK by the members I know.

    If the remainers are not able to reconcile themselves to any kind of Brexit after that (and there would only be a handful, nothing like the 300 from Con/Lab you mention) then I expect a time limited compromise and an election in 2020 to completely sideline them and take advantage of Corbyn still being Labour leader.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Wonder if Boris has enough on Gove to scupper his chances.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,241
    edited June 2018

    This is brewing badly for May's government:

    https://twitter.com/MENnewsdesk/status/1004014267690049536

    I have not followed this in detail so I was wondering how exactly have Northern Rail screwed this up so badly? Did they introduce a timetable that they couldn't themselves meet or is there a problem because if it works it is a worse timetable than they had before. Is it interfacing with Network Rail that is the issue or is it all down to NR's internal mismanagement of their own business?
    A bit of both.

    They introduced the timetable change whilst Liverpool and a few other stations are closed.

    Plus the drivers aren't yet fully trained on the new trains/routes.

    As someone who commutes to Manchester daily and most of my staff commute in using Northern it is stressful.

    There's been a few life threatening situations as the platforms are heaving full of people waiting for cancelled/delayed trains and arriving trains have a load of passengers wishing to get off.

    Fortunately I used Trans Pennine Express
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,196
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Or preparing for a Labour climb down next week. Corbyn and May need each other, if Labour manage to bring down May, she gets replaced with Javid who he won't be able to win against.
    Market says Gove.
    I te.
    Not 100% sment but might, like, ahem, some Cons supporters, feel that the party would no longer be one they could identify with.
    Javid was a remainer and he'd be PM. Why wouldn't they stand for that? I also think they'd get a huge win among the members so MPs who don't like it would have to live with it.
    Well as I said this morning, May was supposed to be a safe pair of hands and I don't see Javid as being hugely different - essentially grey but more ambitious. Your comment "a Javid/Gove ticket from the ERG" drew my response. I don't think all Cons MPs would be happy to row in behind the ERG although Lab have with Momentum, that said.
    I think it would be pitched as a compromise ticket if it were to happen. Instead of putting their own candidate forwards the ERG would back a Javid/Gove ticket. One remainer, one leaver and the remainer in number 10. I think neither would back staying in the customs union so the remainers would want to field their own candidate who does back it, but I don't think they would be able to win the members' vote, most are too wet and many seen as serving the EU rather than the UK by the members I know.

    If the remainers are not able to reconcile themselves to any kind of Brexit after that (and there would only be a handful, nothing like the 300 from Con/Lab you mention) then I expect a time limited compromise and an election in 2020 to completely sideline them and take advantage of Corbyn still being Labour leader.
    Yes that makes sense except I don't see how much further we would be from what we have today (Remainer in No.10, etc). The ERG would presumably make demands of Javid but, as with May today, he is first of all a Remainer, and second of all, would be PM and hence not, I hope, at liberty to accede to some of the bonkers demands that they would try to make. So what would be the point of the ERG endorsing it if they got nothing more than they are already getting, whatever that is?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,241
    That's other frustrating thing with Northern, they'll wait 45 mins to tell you your train is cancelled even though they've known for days that train won't be running.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,877

    This is brewing badly for May's government:

    https://twitter.com/MENnewsdesk/status/1004014267690049536

    I have not followed this in detail so I was wondering how exactly have Northern Rail screwed this up so badly? Did they introduce a timetable that they couldn't themselves meet or is there a problem because if it works it is a worse timetable than they had before. Is it interfacing with Network Rail that is the issue or is it all down to NR's internal mismanagement of their own business?
    Right, AIUI:

    The outline services to be run are agreed in advance (often at franchise time) between the DfT, the operator and Network Rail. In this case, there was going to be a large alteration to the timetables country-wide due to new trains and improved infrastructure allowing new routes. It is then up to Network Rail to devise the timetables.

    New timetables come in in December and May, with the latter ('summer') timetable usually being bigger changes. TOCs are usually given three or so months notice of the broad-brush new timetable, so they can train staff up for the changes.

    However in Northern's case, Network Rail mucked up the infrastructure improvements. This meant the overworked small timetabling team were making alterations to the timetable a week or two before it was due to come in. And because the infrastructure was not ready, Northern could not train the staff on the routes. (And now some guesswork: the constantly-changing emergency timetables they bought in duriing the first two weeks of chaos probably didn't help).

    I have much sympathy with Northern, who really are not architects of the mess they find themselves in. The situation with GTR down south is roughly similar, but with detail differences that can be laid more at GTR's door.

    The DfT are much to blame. In particular, leaving not enough time between scheduled infrastructure completion and the new services running. In another recent case during Chester, they finished the infrastructure and will be running first services over it in six months. But allegedly they wanted to show off the money they'd spent on that shiny new infrastructure...
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    That's other frustrating thing with Northern, they'll wait 45 mins to tell you your train is cancelled even though they've known for days that train won't be running.

    Comradely sympathy from a Southern trains survivor.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,877

    That's other frustrating thing with Northern, they'll wait 45 mins to tell you your train is cancelled even though they've known for days that train won't be running.

    Do they know, or are they being told by Network Rail that it might be able to be run?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,241

    That's other frustrating thing with Northern, they'll wait 45 mins to tell you your train is cancelled even though they've known for days that train won't be running.

    Do they know, or are they being told by Network Rail that it might be able to be run?
    Northern Rail managers know trains are ‘likely’ to be cancelled the night before - but don’t tell the public, it has been claimed.

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/northern-trains-cancelled-manchester-burnham-14678174
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    TOPPING said:

    Yes that makes sense except I don't see how much further we would be from what we have today (Remainer in No.10, etc). The ERG would presumably make demands of Javid but, as with May today, he is first of all a Remainer, and second of all, would be PM and hence not, I hope, at liberty to accede to some of the bonkers demands that they would try to make. So what would be the point of the ERG endorsing it if they got nothing more than they are already getting, whatever that is?

    It puts Gove into number 11, Javid is not an ideological remainer and would be a much more pragmatic and decisive PM than May. I think if he went in and walked the route of Brexit as the City would like it (what Robert, myself and other leavers on here have proposed) they would probably live with it as long as the end goal was being completely out within a few years and no open-ended commitments to the CU or SM are made (as May seems ready to do).

    Javid has already spoken out against the customs union, a few times so that will help win over the moderate sceptics (which make up the majority of the MPs and members) and enough of the ERG to not put forwards a challenge despite coming out for remain, IMO.

    I also think getting Hammond out of number 11 (and Gove in) would count as a huge win for the ERG, which is why if Javid and Gove run a joint ticket they get most of the party behind them.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606

    That's other frustrating thing with Northern, they'll wait 45 mins to tell you your train is cancelled even though they've known for days that train won't be running.

    My sister was telling me that Thameslink and Great Northern are just deleting trains from the schedule if they aren't running. Not sure which is worse tbh.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,877

    That's other frustrating thing with Northern, they'll wait 45 mins to tell you your train is cancelled even though they've known for days that train won't be running.

    Do they know, or are they being told by Network Rail that it might be able to be run?
    Northern Rail managers know trains are ‘likely’ to be cancelled the night before - but don’t tell the public, it has been claimed.

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/northern-trains-cancelled-manchester-burnham-14678174
    The source for that claim is the Manchester mayor, who as you know is my favourite person in the whole world (not), whom I would never call a low piece of scum.

    If I'm reading that correctly, 60% of the possible cancellations went ahead, which means that 40% did run. If they cancelled all of the list then that piece of scum would be complaining about unnecessary cancellations.

    Of course they'll be thinking about what services may be cut: but they don't *know* if they'll run or not.

    At least that's my reading of that.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    Scott_P said:
    No surprise there, Corbyn is committed to leaving the single market he just wants to stay in a single market
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Jonathan said:

    Wonder if Boris has enough on Gove to scupper his chances.

    More generally, what will Boris Johnson do if a vacancy seems set to come up? He must know that now is not his moment. Will he shore up TMPM? Will he throw his hat in the ring anyway? To whom would he give his endorsement, which must still count for quite a bit? And what would he want in return?

    One to think about.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,196
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Yes that makes sense except I don't see how much further we would be from what we have today (Remainer in No.10, etc). The ERG would presumably make demands of Javid but, as with May today, he is first of all a Remainer, and second of all, would be PM and hence not, I hope, at liberty to accede to some of the bonkers demands that they would try to make. So what would be the point of the ERG endorsing it if they got nothing more than they are already getting, whatever that is?

    It puts Gove into number 11, Javid is not an ideological remainer and would be a much more pragmatic and decisive PM than May. I think if he went in and walked the route of Brexit as the City would like it (what Robert, myself and other leavers on here have proposed) they would probably live with it as long as the end goal was being completely out within a few years and no open-ended commitments to the CU or SM are made (as May seems ready to do).

    Javid has already spoken out against the customs union, a few times so that will help win over the moderate sceptics (which make up the majority of the MPs and members) and enough of the ERG to not put forwards a challenge despite coming out for remain, IMO.

    I also think getting Hammond out of number 11 (and Gove in) would count as a huge win for the ERG, which is why if Javid and Gove run a joint ticket they get most of the party behind them.
    Sadly and disappointingly, we saw from the O'Hagan Grenfell article what kind of principles Javid has - a range. And I wouldn't have put May down as being an ideological remainer either. Being PM is a world away from being not PM (as we saw with May) and things change especially when you are juggling with interest groups.

    We have already seen the likely route the City will take to Brexit - https://thetradenews.com/uk-mp-no-bonfire-financial-regulations-post-brexit/

    And the pressure to do similar things all over will be as high with Javid as with May. Gove in No. 11 does I agree help the ERG but again his principles have been shown to be flaky at best.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    edited June 2018

    HYUFD said:

    Gove is a brilliant Cabinet Minister but would be a disaster as Tory leader, his yougov rating is -65% and he polls the worst of any politician Tory, Labour or LD in frontrank politics today.


    https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Michael_Gove

    Gove also still trails Mogg in the ConHome members poll anyway and Javid is gaining on him fast

    That rating is based on just the last 100 respondent so is even less reliable than a Scottish sub sample.
    It is updated regularly and Gove has been consistently last for months
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    No surprise there, Corbyn is committed to leaving the single market he just wants to stay in a single market
    Jezza just wants the chance to rebel against his own whips
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Yes that makes sense except I don't see how much further we would be from what we have today (Remainer in No.10, etc). The ERG would presumably make demands of Javid but, as with May today, he is first of all a Remainer, and second of all, would be PM and hence not, I hope, at liberty to accede to some of the bonkers demands that they would try to make. So what would be the point of the ERG endorsing it if they got nothing more than they are already getting, whatever that is?

    It puts Gove into number 11, Javid is not an ideological remainer and would be a much more pragmatic and decisive PM than May. I think if he went in and walked the route of Brexit as the City would like it (what Robert, myself and other leavers on here have proposed) they would probably live with it as long as the end goal was being completely out within a few years and no open-ended commitments to the CU or SM are made (as May seems ready to do).

    Javid has already spoken out against the customs union, a few times so that will help win over the moderate sceptics (which make up the majority of the MPs and members) and enough of the ERG to not put forwards a challenge despite coming out for remain, IMO.

    I also think getting Hammond out of number 11 (and Gove in) would count as a huge win for the ERG, which is why if Javid and Gove run a joint ticket they get most of the party behind them.
    Sadly and disappointingly, we saw from the O'Hagan Grenfell article what kind of principles Javid has - a range. And I wouldn't have put May down as being an ideological remainer either. Being PM is a world away from being not PM (as we saw with May) and things change especially when you are juggling with interest groups.

    We have already seen the likely route the City will take to Brexit - https://thetradenews.com/uk-mp-no-bonfire-financial-regulations-post-brexit/

    And the pressure to do similar things all over will be as high with Javid as with May. Gove in No. 11 does I agree help the ERG but again his principles have been shown to be flaky at best.
    That's sort of my point, it's a compromise ticket. I think any idiot can see that the ERG won't be able to win with their own candidates, they might not even be able to get their own ticket to the members' ballot. It's the age old question of having some influence vs none. I know on which you fall with that argument. :D
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    This is brewing badly for May's government:

    https://twitter.com/MENnewsdesk/status/1004014267690049536

    I have not followed this in detail so I was wondering how exactly have Northern Rail screwed this up so badly? Did they introduce a timetable that they couldn't themselves meet or is there a problem because if it works it is a worse timetable than they had before. Is it interfacing with Network Rail that is the issue or is it all down to NR's internal mismanagement of their own business?
    A bit of both.

    They introduced the timetable change whilst Liverpool and a few other stations are closed.

    Plus the drivers aren't yet fully trained on the new trains/routes.

    As someone who commutes to Manchester daily and most of my staff commute in using Northern it is stressful.

    There's been a few life threatening situations as the platforms are heaving full of people waiting for cancelled/delayed trains and arriving trains have a load of passengers wishing to get off.

    Fortunately I used Trans Pennine Express
    Aren't TPE just as affected by the infrastructure changes though? How come they seem to be coping much better?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,112
    edited June 2018
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    Yes that makes sense except I don't see how much further we would be from what we have today (Remainer in No.10, etc). The ERG would presumably make demands of Javid but, as with May today, he is first of all a Remainer, and second of all, would be PM and hence not, I hope, at liberty to accede to some of the bonkers demands that they would try to make. So what would be the point of the ERG endorsing it if they got nothing more than they are already getting, whatever that is?

    It puts Gove into number 11, Javid is not an ideological remainer and would be a much more pragmatic and decisive PM than May. I think if he went in and walked the route of Brexit as the City would like it (what Robert, myself and other leavers on here have proposed) they would probably live with it as long as the end goal was being completely out within a few years and no open-ended commitments to the CU or SM are made (as May seems ready to do).

    Javid has already spoken out against the customs union, a few times so that will help win over the moderate sceptics (which make up the majority of the MPs and members) and enough of the ERG to not put forwards a challenge despite coming out for remain, IMO.

    I also think getting Hammond out of number 11 (and Gove in) would count as a huge win for the ERG, which is why if Javid and Gove run a joint ticket they get most of the party behind them.
    I would be a lot happier with Gove in number 11 than number 10. I think he has the intellect to seize the problems of the Treasury and our absurd tax system. I think he would also be more ambitious about housing and infrastructure and slightly less anxious about the deficit.
    Hammond is really steady as you go and that is not what is needed if this country is to maintain its dynamism.

    Javid has worried me for a bit because he has often seemed a little lacking in critical analysis of a problem or substance (he was disappointing at Business) but he would be a better frontman choice than Gove. The ideal would be if Javid/Gove could get Osborne back inside the tent as well. We are desperately short of real talent in front line politics in this country.

    May and Hammond need to win big next week on all of these votes. If they don't their time may well be up.
This discussion has been closed.