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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The language of priorities. What we talk about when we talk ab

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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    The North certainly has better roads than the South. Incidentally, if this new runway (is it getting a new terminal too?) happens at Heathrow, we should build a new motorway from the M25 at Cobham to the M3, M4 and M40 meaning that if you're going to Birmingham and the Northwest you don't have to go on the M25 past Heathrow.

    ISTR a couple of decades ago, a plan to link the M3 and M4 with a new road east of Bracknell from M3 J3 to M4 J8/9. The problem is that there’s a lot of very influential people with very expensive houses in places like Ascot and Winkfield, who didn’t want a trunk road within five miles of where they lived!
    **** 'em.
    That would be a mess, (I live in Bagshot, so right where that would be). But it's a mess anyway.

    Edit: but looking at the map, there would really be no way through at all.

    This area of the country is just too densely populated compared with the current intrastructure.
    Yes, you’d be knocking down an awful lot of houses to get any route that would bypass the Heathrow section of the M25. It looks quite green on the map, but when you zoom in it’s all just very leafy housing - apart from the bit that’s Windsor Great Park and Ascot Racecourse!
    That's what compulsory purchase orders are for.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,285
    Scott_P said:
    Vindication at last for me and confirmation of my theory that Mrs May is trying to sabotage Brexit.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,285

    Welby's doing down of the Eastern Empire is daft.

    Stop bashing the (Arch) Bishop.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,046

    Mr. Brooke, indeed, though it's worth noting the UK/England has been more heavily focused on its capital city than the vast majority of comparable nations for a very long time.

    Not to excuse the fact, just to say it's long ingrained.

    F1: markets are up on Ladbrokes, giving them a cursory glance now.

    well the irony on Northern underinvestment is that 13 years of Labour govt didn't do much to address the backlog in what is a core vote area.

    Any moment now that whinging git Burnham will appear to tell us all how bad things are but it's not his fault
    A special highlight was opening a new airport in South Yorkshire without putting in a link to the M18 three miles away.

    And it was something which Prescott would have been well aware of as he would have gone past every time he drove to Hull.

    Integrated transport policy was his catchprase as I remember.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Barnesian said:

    I was once responsible for making the business case for major infrastructure projects in a large public company.

    If the infrastructure project was an add-on to an existing capability then the cost benefit case was relatively straightforward, and the accountants were happy with their spreadsheets.

    But if the infrastructure project was a component in building a new strategic capability then it was not so straightforward. The main benefit was often the "option value" it provided in enabling further undefined projects that built on or required that infrastructure. This required the CEO to recognise the strategic value and over-ride the accountants.

    However there was a danger. If you could manage to get a project labelled "strategic", then you could avoid difficult quantitative questions and get away with waving your hands around.

    Nevertheless there is a crucial difference between add-on and enabling infrastructure projects.

    I have the same debate around “platform” investments vs tuck in deals
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    HYUFD said:

    On topic, sort of. Interesting article in the Guardian, https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/06/rural-town-austerity-buses-witney

    There’s an issue around rural buses, and the fact that rural, and indeed semi-rual non-drivers, for whatever reason, can be very isolated without them. Even in Essex there are communities with none, or only one a week.

    If more people used rural buses then bus companies would provide more of them
    I'd still need to use a car to get to the rural bus route....
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,524
    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Rogueywon said:

    Worth noting that the detailed analysis done on Heathrow expansion by Government and its commissions showed that while the "pain" of Heathrow expansion falls squarely on London and the South East through noise and air pollution, the economic benefits are fairly evenly spread across most of the country. Most of the regional airports (other than Birmingham, which is too close to London to benefit from it) support Heathrow expansion as it benefits their onward connectivity, as do the more serious regional government bodies.

    Crossrail and the like do indeed primarily benefit Londoners and commuters, but Heathrow is in a different category. The government will be depending on votes from the SNP and Labour MPs from the North to get it across the line in a vote.

    Indeed. Heathrow is so congested that every time there’s some morning fog in the winter, half of BA’s domestic schedule gets binned for the day. I imagine that MPs from northern constituencies notice this personally.

    Meanwhile KLM and Emirates operate to most of the regional airports and take a considerable amount of long haul passengers (and APD) away.
    Heathrow is WAY overdue, and other regional airports should be expanded too. Why give the Dutch extra business with Schipol connections ?
    Because Schipol just works. If I need to be in Copenhagen / Munich / Frankfurt for a Monday lunch time meeting I can be.
    A friend who flies Belfast -> Heathrow -> Copenhagen only arrives at 14:30 (assuming the Belfast Heathrow flight takes off).

    Newcastle has a choice of Heathrow, Brussels, CDG and Schipol for transfers. Schipol is great, Brussels acceptable CDG bearable if you give enough time for connections. Heathrow only if there is no other option and even then.... And if it's not the connection that puts you off its the airline itself.
    Schipol is great. 4 or more flights a day from Birmingham with KLM and great onwards connections.

    Just getting to Heathrow down the M1 and M25 and parking is more of a hassle than changing flights in Schipol.
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,987
    edited June 2018

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    The North certainly has better roads than the South. Incidentally, if this new runway (is it getting a new terminal too?) happens at Heathrow, we should build a new motorway from the M25 at Cobham to the M3, M4 and M40 meaning that if you're going to Birmingham and the Northwest you don't have to go on the M25 past Heathrow.

    ISTR a couple of decades ago, a plan to link the M3 and M4 with a new road east of Bracknell from M3 J3 to M4 J8/9. The problem is that there’s a lot of very influential people with very expensive houses in places like Ascot and Winkfield, who didn’t want a trunk road within five miles of where they lived!
    **** 'em.
    That would be a mess, (I live in Bagshot, so right where that would be). But it's a mess anyway.

    Edit: but looking at the map, there would really be no way through at all.

    This area of the country is just too densely populated compared with the current intrastructure.
    How much would a tunnel cost?

    EDIT: But you're right. When the scheme was originally envisaged, the area wasn't as densely populated. If you live in Bagshot you'll know what the roads round our area are like.
    Yep terrible. The whole of the SW London infrastructure is at breaking point. Not to be helped with the expansion of Heathrwo, but its really the only place it could be. Gatwick is too far out.
    Heathrow airport taxes are very high and are set to get even higher compared with Gatwick.

    There is a trade-off for London passengers between the nearness of Heathrow and the cheapness of Gatwick.

    In my own case (typical for west London I guess), it takes me 30 minutes (and a £25 cab) to get to Heathrow, and 60 minutes (and a £50 cab) to get to Gatwick. But airport taxes at Gatwick are typically £60 cheaper than Heathrow. So I can take 30 minutes longer to get to the airport and save £35. Depends on how you value your time I suppose.

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,843

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    The North certainly has better roads than the South. Incidentally, if this new runway (is it getting a new terminal too?) happens at Heathrow, we should build a new motorway from the M25 at Cobham to the M3, M4 and M40 meaning that if you're going to Birmingham and the Northwest you don't have to go on the M25 past Heathrow.

    ISTR a couple of decades ago, a plan to link the M3 and M4 with a new road east of Bracknell from M3 J3 to M4 J8/9. The problem is that there’s a lot of very influential people with very expensive houses in places like Ascot and Winkfield, who didn’t want a trunk road within five miles of where they lived!
    **** 'em.
    That would be a mess, (I live in Bagshot, so right where that would be). But it's a mess anyway.

    Edit: but looking at the map, there would really be no way through at all.

    This area of the country is just too densely populated compared with the current intrastructure.
    Yes, you’d be knocking down an awful lot of houses to get any route that would bypass the Heathrow section of the M25. It looks quite green on the map, but when you zoom in it’s all just very leafy housing - apart from the bit that’s Windsor Great Park and Ascot Racecourse!
    That's what compulsory purchase orders are for.
    Good luck with that in the middle of stockbroker country. The locals would elect an independent MP on the single issue and flood the council with NIMBYs, you’d need an Act of Parliament and tens of billions to buy up the land for that road.

    The cheapest option may actually be to tunnel under the existing M25, from north of the A3 to south of the M40 junctions, for M25 through traffic only. About 8 miles from a quick look at a map.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,159
    Today's most worrying news. What is it with these populists and their love of Putin's kleptocracy?

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1004251156791652352
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Welby's doing down of the Eastern Empire is daft.

    He is scared that he will be accused of Turcoislamophobic xenophobia if he doesn't rule out Miklagard. I suppose one could see 1453 as the first of Turkey's attempts to join the EU.
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    notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    notme said:

    HYUFD said:

    Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, comes out as a Remainer 'the EU has been the greatest thing for human beings since the Western Roman Empire'

    https://mobile.twitter.com/wareisjoe/status/1003984057787699202

    Greater than the Western Roman Empire? It’s not even greater than Windows Vista.
    it depends on your point of view. The rabid Brexit loons are dragging us back towards Windows Vista...
    No. More like an insider preview of the next version of windows 10 without carrying out a backup first.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,159
    notme said:

    notme said:

    HYUFD said:

    Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, comes out as a Remainer 'the EU has been the greatest thing for human beings since the Western Roman Empire'

    https://mobile.twitter.com/wareisjoe/status/1003984057787699202

    Greater than the Western Roman Empire? It’s not even greater than Windows Vista.
    it depends on your point of view. The rabid Brexit loons are dragging us back towards Windows Vista...
    No. More like an insider preview of the next version of windows 10 without carrying out a backup first.
    :lol:

    Or you could say an operating system with an appalling i/o system, seeing as our ports will be basically inoperable. UNIVAC?
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,918
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    We need to dual or even triple the A1 north of Newcastle all the way to the Scottish border. Northumberland is ripe for growth, it just needs the infastructure first. There’s room for whole new cities within easy reach of Edinburgh and Newcastle airports and an ambudance of natural resources.

    Connecting Blyth and Cramlington to the Metro network would also do wonders for the often forgotton North East.

    why stop at the border ? It needs to go right up to Edinburgh. It's ridiculous that two capital cities have no motorway to join them.
    Which road would you choose for dualling - the A1, which serves the largest population but snakes around the coast, the A68 which is most direct but goes through the middle of nowhere and is a bastard to drive on due to the shall we say politely uneven ground it goes through, or the A7 from Carlisle which is in many ways the most logical one if we're talking about London to Edinburgh but of course misses Northumberland entirely?
    A1 you have to join the big population centres so upgrade from Leeds to GeordieLand, and Edinburgh
    The A1 is now motorway to Newcastle (3 lanes to Scotch Corner, 2 lanes from Scotch Corner to Newcastle).
    What you are left with is Northumberland and then it becomes a question of do you have enough traffic to justify it after all the Scottish Government haven't prioritised it on their side.
    It is only 2 lanes still for most of the route from London to Doncaster except for a small section around Peterborough.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,159
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,159
    Scott_P said:
    Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage.
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited June 2018
    Nigelb said:

    There’s a reason why Crossrail 2 is on the agenda at a time when the TransPennine Express upgrade is apparently being shelved...

    And it’s likely not an economic one. The costs are in the region of £30bn and £5bn respectively. The decision on the new transpennine route was a disgrace.

    The point of infrastructure projects being judged on return on investment is a strong one, but that is quite clearly not the only metric. The development of poorer regions is quite clearly not a significant metric, either.

    A good article, though.

    There has been much prevarication on Crossrail 2 though as the Government is expecting the Mayor to fund half the costs without necessarily giving him any more tax raising powers - such as some sort of property tax on the further expected increase in house prices in areas of south west London like Wimbledon and Tooting and Kingston which will benefit most from the scheme.

    Problem with Crossrail 1 is that the real beneficiaries - property owners whether commercial or residential - didn't directly pay a penny as the only new tax used was mainly a tax on renters. And then those poor renters get pushed out when their landlords raise the rent!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage.

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1004278941597741056
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited June 2018
    https://twitter.com/NickGibbs/status/1004230896457838592

    EDIT: I am sure our car part manufacture and logistics "experts" will be along shortly to tell us the boss of Unipart is wrong...
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,578

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    We need to dual or even triple the A1 north of Newcastle all the way to the Scottish border. Northumberland is ripe for growth, it just needs the infastructure first. There’s room for whole new cities within easy reach of Edinburgh and Newcastle airports and an ambudance of natural resources.

    Connecting Blyth and Cramlington to the Metro network would also do wonders for the often forgotton North East.

    why stop at the border ? It needs to go right up to Edinburgh. It's ridiculous that two capital cities have no motorway to join them.
    Which road would you choose for dualling - the A1, which serves the largest population but snakes around the coast, the A68 which is most direct but goes through the middle of nowhere and is a bastard to drive on due to the shall we say politely uneven ground it goes through, or the A7 from Carlisle which is in many ways the most logical one if we're talking about London to Edinburgh but of course misses Northumberland entirely?
    A1 you have to join the big population centres so upgrade from Leeds to GeordieLand, and Edinburgh
    The A1 is now motorway to Newcastle (3 lanes to Scotch Corner, 2 lanes from Scotch Corner to Newcastle).
    What you are left with is Northumberland and then it becomes a question of do you have enough traffic to justify it after all the Scottish Government haven't prioritised it on their side.
    It is only 2 lanes still for most of the route from London to Doncaster except for a small section around Peterborough.
    And it stops being a motorway at Washington Services. And becomes a carpark instead.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Scott_P said:
    given we ship very little to them ( we tend to send cars not parts ) and import lots the risk sits more on the other side as this cuts both ways

    boost for re-shoring and UK suppliers
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,046

    Scott_P said:
    Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage.
    Jun 2016 - "Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage"
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,962
    Sandpit said:

    Back at the tail end of the Nineties, I was living on the Aberdeenshire coast and was saying, only partly tongue in cheek, that the new Scottish Parliament should be placed in Inverness.
    They would then be focused on the need to improve the roads in Scotland away from the Central Belt.

    Nah, they’d just fly in from Edinburgh and say how wonderful things are.

    Remember the First Minister who chartered a helicopter for the last election campaign as she didn’t want to waste time travelling by road?
    Lot of it about.

    'Cameron forced to defend taking helicopter for 140-mile journey instead of using the train
    David Cameron has been forced to defend a decision to spend thousands of pounds of taxpayers’ money by taking a 140-mile helicopter flight instead of using Britain’s road or rail network.'

    https://tinyurl.com/y8paml5o

    'Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson disembarks a helicopter after arriving in Peterhead during a coast-to-coast tour as campaigning continues for the Holyrood election on May 3, 2016 in Peterhead, United Kingdom.'

    https://tinyurl.com/ybsdefs6

    'Theresa May arrives by helicopter for her first general election campaign trip lasting 15 minutes'

    https://tinyurl.com/yaq32ld8

    Of course Tessy needed the means for a quick getaway just in case an ordinary voter came within 100 feet.
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Scott_P said:
    Never mind, I'm sure when we sign our FTA with Tongo, these companies will find new and exciting markets to sell into.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,046

    Scott_P said:
    Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage.
    Jun 2016 - "Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage"
    Jul 2016 - "Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage"
    Aug 2016 - "Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage"
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    And in actual reality there were six different types of British strawberry and two different types of British raspberry on sale at Tesco yesterday.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Scott_P said:
    For that read Corbyn - aka Brexit's Bessy Mate - putting the boot in on Starmer......
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,843
    Scott_P said:

    ttps://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1004277936621588481

    Meanwhile the chairman of Audi tells the EU to stop messing around and agree a tariff-free trade deal with the UK for the sake of German jobs - UK is the company’s 4th largest market after Germany, USA and China.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5810433/Audi-calls-tariff-free-trade-deal-UK-urging-EU-strike-deal.html
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,159

    Scott_P said:
    Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage.
    Jun 2016 - "Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage"
    Jul 2016 - "Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage"
    Aug 2016 - "Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage"
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    And in actual reality there were six different types of British strawberry and two different types of British raspberry on sale at Tesco yesterday.
    Reads like a list of the number of occasions Leavers have had to put their fingers in their ears and shout "I'm not listening, I'm not listening".
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244
    edited June 2018

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    We need to dual or even triple the A1 north of Newcastle all the way to the Scottish border. Northumberland is ripe for growth, it just needs the infastructure first. There’s room for whole new cities within easy reach of Edinburgh and Newcastle airports and an ambudance of natural resources.

    Connecting Blyth and Cramlington to the Metro network would also do wonders for the often forgotton North East.

    why stop at the border ? It needs to go right up to Edinburgh. It's ridiculous that two capital cities have no motorway to join them.
    Which road would you choose for dualling - the A1, which serves the largest population but snakes around the coast, the A68 which is most direct but goes through the middle of nowhere and is a bastard to drive on due to the shall we say politely uneven ground it goes through, or the A7 from Carlisle which is in many ways the most logical one if we're talking about London to Edinburgh but of course misses Northumberland entirely?
    A1 you have to join the big population centres so upgrade from Leeds to GeordieLand, and Edinburgh
    The A1 is now motorway to Newcastle (3 lanes to Scotch Corner, 2 lanes from Scotch Corner to Newcastle).
    What you are left with is Northumberland and then it becomes a question of do you have enough traffic to justify it after all the Scottish Government haven't prioritised it on their side.
    It is only 2 lanes still for most of the route from London to Doncaster except for a small section around Peterborough.
    And around Welwyn/Stevenage.

    It always amuses me that on the Daily Mash, the correspondents are all from along the A1.

    Edit: and one for @rcs1000

    thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/we-go-to-the-maldives-and-the-children-go-to-pontins-says-kirstie-allsopp-20180605173899

    Edit x 2: and one for you!

    thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/only-17-massive-new-problems-with-brexit-discovered-today-20180605173869
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,797
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, comes out as a Remainer 'the EU has been the greatest thing for human beings since the Western Roman Empire'

    https://mobile.twitter.com/wareisjoe/status/1003984057787699202

    ++Justin can be silly sometimes
    Better than democracy, or the abolition of slavery, or capitalism?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902
    edited June 2018
    The astonishing part about the A1 is how there aren't more accidents with people pulling out of petrol stations out onto the road. The slip roads on are near non existant - has it simply not been noted how lethal these are ?
    Other than that it is not a bad road - just I feel some of the whole "smart motorway" spending on the M1 is a waste of cash (And unwanted with the nonsense near constant 60 mph limit) and improving the slip roads to a couple of services on the A1 would have been a far better use of cash.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,046

    Scott_P said:
    Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage.
    Jun 2016 - "Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage"
    Jul 2016 - "Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage"
    Aug 2016 - "Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage"
    Sep 2016 - "Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage"
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    And in actual reality there were six different types of British strawberry and two different types of British raspberry on sale at Tesco yesterday.
    Reads like a list of the number of occasions Leavers have had to put their fingers in their ears and shout "I'm not listening, I'm not listening".
    Listening to what ?

    Predictions that there would be an immediate recession, the car factories would shut down, the City would relocate to Frankfurt, the stock market would crash, refugee camps at Dover and the crops rotting in the fields ?

    Why don't Remainers ever provide any DATA to back up their claims instead of merely pasting from twatter.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited June 2018
    The UK has had this huge problem in which overwhelmingly major business is London-centric / SE for decades. It isn't true in places like Germany, where a number of different cities have different major industries.

    Gordo attempts at redistribution of public sector jobs to the regions, with on eye on stimulating the economy hasn't done much (other than drive up property prices in places like Bristol), and even though London is now bursting at the seams with lack of housing, business and people all still want to locate there.

    The vast majority of undergraduates I have talked to at the big unis measure success as a graduate job in London.

    Answers to the problem on the back of a postcode to ....
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,046
    Pulpstar said:

    The astonishing part about the A1 is how there aren't more accidents with people pulling out of petrol stations out onto the road. The slip roads on are near non existant - has it simply not been noted how lethal these are ?
    Other than that it is not a bad road - just I feel some of the whole "smart motorway" spending on the M1 is a waste of cash (And unwanted with the nonsense near constant 60 mph limit) and improving the slip roads to a couple of services on the A1 would have been a far better use of cash.

    Indeed.

    There's even a weird pedestrian crossing on the A1 south of Pontefract.

    You would have to be suicidal to use it.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    Pulpstar said:

    The astonishing part about the A1 is how there aren't more accidents with people pulling out of petrol stations out onto the road. The slip roads on are near non existant - has it simply not been noted how lethal these are ?
    Other than that it is not a bad road - just I feel some of the whole "smart motorway" spending on the M1 is a waste of cash (And unwanted with the nonsense near constant 60 mph limit) and improving the slip roads to a couple of services on the A1 would have been a far better use of cash.

    The money spent on managed motorways is a disgrace.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited June 2018
    Shakes head and mutters....

    Technology companies such as Facebook and Google would be forced to give Australian security agencies access to encrypted data under legislation to be introduced by the Turnbull government.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jun/06/planned-laws-to-force-tech-firms-to-reveal-encrypted-data
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244
    edited June 2018

    Scott_P said:
    Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage.

    Jun 2018 - "Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage"
    And in actual reality there were six different types of British strawberry and two different types of British raspberry on sale at Tesco yesterday.
    Reads like a list of the number of occasions Leavers have had to put their fingers in their ears and shout "I'm not listening, I'm not listening".
    Listening to what ?

    Predictions that there would be an immediate recession, the car factories would shut down, the City would relocate to Frankfurt, the stock market would crash, refugee camps at Dover and the crops rotting in the fields ?

    Why don't Remainers ever provide any DATA to back up their claims instead of merely pasting from twatter.
    Luckily enough Mark Carney acted to stave off a recession, Theresa May bribed the car companies, and those with GBP assets and non-GBP liabilities found there was a crash. Refugee camps? I think they may yet end up being at Larne. As for the crops, https://ft.com/content/0e0a77f2-96df-11e7-b83c-9588e51488a0
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Scott_P said:
    Vindication at last for me and confirmation of my theory that Mrs May is trying to sabotage Brexit.
    At great personal coat to herself May is discrediting Brexiters and leading us to the softest of soft Brexits.

    She will go down as a hero of our age.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,046

    The UK has had this huge problem in which overwhelmingly major business is London-centric / SE for decades. It isn't true in places like Germany, where a number of different cities have different major industries.

    Gordo attempts at redistribution of public sector jobs to the regions, with on eye on stimulating the economy hasn't done much (other than drive up property prices in places like Bristol), and even though London is now bursting at the seams with lack of housing, business and people all still want to locate there.

    The vast majority of undergraduates I have talked to at the big unis measure success as a graduate job in London.

    Answers to the problem on the back of a postcode to ....

    London is the big government / financial / cultural centre for the Britain.

    In the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand they had the sense not to allow such a concentration.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,046
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage.

    Jun 2018 - "Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage"
    And in actual reality there were six different types of British strawberry and two different types of British raspberry on sale at Tesco yesterday.
    Reads like a list of the number of occasions Leavers have had to put their fingers in their ears and shout "I'm not listening, I'm not listening".
    Listening to what ?

    Predictions that there would be an immediate recession, the car factories would shut down, the City would relocate to Frankfurt, the stock market would crash, refugee camps at Dover and the crops rotting in the fields ?

    Why don't Remainers ever provide any DATA to back up their claims instead of merely pasting from twatter.
    Luckily enough Mark Carney acted to stave off a recession, Theresa May bribed the car companies, and those with GBP assets and non-GBP liabilities found there was a crash. Refugee camps? I think they may yet end up being at Larne. As for the crops, https://ft.com/content/0e0a77f2-96df-11e7-b83c-9588e51488a0
    LOL

    Is that really the best response you can make ? Really ?

    And you wonder why nobody believes these predictions of doom any more ?
  • Options
    Oh good, a "historic underinvestment in the North East's infrastructure" thread!

    For me the main issue is, as AM points out, the planning is all done centrally rather than allocating a budget to each region and going from there. Each successive government has wanted the most bang for their buck in the short term, rather than the hard slog of rebalancing the country and reinvigorating struggling areas.

    Metro Mayors have done a good job so far, but it's a drop in the ocean.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    The UK has had this huge problem in which overwhelmingly major business is London-centric / SE for decades. It isn't true in places like Germany, where a number of different cities have different major industries.

    Gordo attempts at redistribution of public sector jobs to the regions, with on eye on stimulating the economy hasn't done much (other than drive up property prices in places like Bristol), and even though London is now bursting at the seams with lack of housing, business and people all still want to locate there.

    The vast majority of undergraduates I have talked to at the big unis measure success as a graduate job in London.

    Answers to the problem on the back of a postcode to ....

    London is the big government / financial / cultural centre for the Britain.

    In the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand they had the sense not to allow such a concentration.
    USA, Canada and Australia aren't really good examples as they are vast countries with were formed around individual states / provinces. France and Germany are better examples.
  • Options
    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    The UK has had this huge problem in which overwhelmingly major business is London-centric / SE for decades. It isn't true in places like Germany, where a number of different cities have different major industries.

    Gordo attempts at redistribution of public sector jobs to the regions, with on eye on stimulating the economy hasn't done much (other than drive up property prices in places like Bristol), and even though London is now bursting at the seams with lack of housing, business and people all still want to locate there.

    The vast majority of undergraduates I have talked to at the big unis measure success as a graduate job in London.

    Answers to the problem on the back of a postcode to ....

    London is the big government / financial / cultural centre for the Britain.

    In the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand they had the sense not to allow such a concentration.
    And yet it is why London is the only world class city in Europe.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,843

    Shakes head and mutters....

    Technology companies such as Facebook and Google would be forced to give Australian security agencies access to encrypted data under legislation to be introduced by the Turnbull government.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jun/06/planned-laws-to-force-tech-firms-to-reveal-encrypted-data

    Yay, more governments who don’t understand encryption!

    I’m convinced there’s money to be made in explaining the basic principles of computing and internet technology to policy makers in a way they can understand.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The astonishing part about the A1 is how there aren't more accidents with people pulling out of petrol stations out onto the road. The slip roads on are near non existant - has it simply not been noted how lethal these are ?
    Other than that it is not a bad road - just I feel some of the whole "smart motorway" spending on the M1 is a waste of cash (And unwanted with the nonsense near constant 60 mph limit) and improving the slip roads to a couple of services on the A1 would have been a far better use of cash.

    The money spent on managed motorways is a disgrace.
    Years of disruption and 50 mph speed limits. And for what ?
    A permanent 60 MPH speed limit (Well it feels like it) forevermore thereafter.
    If you're going to spend a fortune on the M1 at least another lane could have been stuck in (Though J31 -> 34 which I do every working day isn't horrifically congested to be fair)
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244
    edited June 2018
    Pulpstar said:

    The astonishing part about the A1 is how there aren't more accidents with people pulling out of petrol stations out onto the road. The slip roads on are near non existant - has it simply not been noted how lethal these are ?
    Other than that it is not a bad road - just I feel some of the whole "smart motorway" spending on the M1 is a waste of cash (And unwanted with the nonsense near constant 60 mph limit) and improving the slip roads to a couple of services on the A1 would have been a far better use of cash.

    The Shell garage in Buckden (first roundabout going South after the Peterborough motorway section) is particularly risky.
  • Options
    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Scott_P said:
    Its plan, in regards to Brexit anyway, seems to mainly be to beat the Tories rather than much of a concrete plan on Brexit. I think Labour are worried that any detailed plan would get trashed and scare off voters. So my guess would be Labour is trying to leave much of the details to the Conservatives so they don't have to be seen to be selling out any group or calling for them to be sold out but instead can sympathise with those affected and push for the Tories to be punished for the result.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage.

    Jun 2018 - "Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage"
    And in actual reality there were six different types of British strawberry and two different types of British raspberry on sale at Tesco yesterday.
    Reads like a list of the number of occasions Leavers have had to put their fingers in their ears and shout "I'm not listening, I'm not listening".
    Listening to what ?

    Predictions that there would be an immediate recession, the car factories would shut down, the City would relocate to Frankfurt, the stock market would crash, refugee camps at Dover and the crops rotting in the fields ?

    Why don't Remainers ever provide any DATA to back up their claims instead of merely pasting from twatter.
    Luckily enough Mark Carney acted to stave off a recession, Theresa May bribed the car companies, and those with GBP assets and non-GBP liabilities found there was a crash. Refugee camps? I think they may yet end up being at Larne. As for the crops, https://ft.com/content/0e0a77f2-96df-11e7-b83c-9588e51488a0
    LOL

    Is that really the best response you can make ? Really ?

    And you wonder why nobody believes these predictions of doom any more ?
    Not doom, just a diminution in our wellbeing.

    And which bit do you have a problem with? Carney's rate move, May's bribe, GBP's fall, or the farmer featured in the FT?
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914

    The UK has had this huge problem in which overwhelmingly major business is London-centric / SE for decades. It isn't true in places like Germany, where a number of different cities have different major industries.

    Gordo attempts at redistribution of public sector jobs to the regions, with on eye on stimulating the economy hasn't done much (other than drive up property prices in places like Bristol), and even though London is now bursting at the seams with lack of housing, business and people all still want to locate there.

    The vast majority of undergraduates I have talked to at the big unis measure success as a graduate job in London.

    Answers to the problem on the back of a postcode to ....

    The decline of heavy industry did for our big regional cities. When the factories closed, the support services went to - the commercial lawyers, the accountants, etc. London was big enough to survive this decline because it had the HQs and the City. Services flourished as a result.

  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244

    Pulpstar said:

    The astonishing part about the A1 is how there aren't more accidents with people pulling out of petrol stations out onto the road. The slip roads on are near non existant - has it simply not been noted how lethal these are ?
    Other than that it is not a bad road - just I feel some of the whole "smart motorway" spending on the M1 is a waste of cash (And unwanted with the nonsense near constant 60 mph limit) and improving the slip roads to a couple of services on the A1 would have been a far better use of cash.

    Indeed.

    There's even a weird pedestrian crossing on the A1 south of Pontefract.

    You would have to be suicidal to use it.
    And another one further south (although there is a 50mph speed limit).

    Yes...I know the AI extremely well, (or at least that bit south of Fatch's Birfplace). I once gave a friend a lift on it and spent the whole journey pointing out the sights and sites of interest.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244

    Scott_P said:
    Its plan, in regards to Brexit anyway, seems to mainly be to beat the Tories rather than much of a concrete plan on Brexit. I think Labour are worried that any detailed plan would get trashed and scare off voters. So my guess would be Labour is trying to leave much of the details to the Conservatives so they don't have to be seen to be selling out any group or calling for them to be sold out but instead can sympathise with those affected and push for the Tories to be punished for the result.
    Which is just as it should, or rather all that it needs to be for The Opposition.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage.

    Jun 2018 - "Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage"
    And in actual reality there were six different types of British strawberry and two different types of British raspberry on sale at Tesco yesterday.
    Reads like a list of the number of occasions Leavers have had to put their fingers in their ears and shout "I'm not listening, I'm not listening".
    Listening to what ?

    Predictions that there would be an immediate recession, the car factories would shut down, the City would relocate to Frankfurt, the stock market would crash, refugee camps at Dover and the crops rotting in the fields ?

    Why don't Remainers ever provide any DATA to back up their claims instead of merely pasting from twatter.
    Luckily enough Mark Carney acted to stave off a recession, Theresa May bribed the car companies, and those with GBP assets and non-GBP liabilities found there was a crash. Refugee camps? I think they may yet end up being at Larne. As for the crops, https://ft.com/content/0e0a77f2-96df-11e7-b83c-9588e51488a0
    LOL

    Is that really the best response you can make ? Really ?

    And you wonder why nobody believes these predictions of doom any more ?
    Not doom, just a diminution in our wellbeing.

    And which bit do you have a problem with? Carney's rate move, May's bribe, GBP's fall, or the farmer featured in the FT?
    Carney's rate move. It was a puny quarter point reduction that has already been reversed. Normally moves are at least half a point or if crisis moves are considerably more and aren't reversed so quickly.

    GBP's fall. It was forecast as part of Project Fear so can't be used as an argument as to why Project Fear's forecasts haven't happened. Furthermore the fall has actually been less than forecast and pound versus the dollar has again largely recovered already.

    Farmer featured in the FT - So he's having to pay a bit more than minimum wage and install WiFi in his accomodation to improve workers living conditions? That's a problem?
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,045
    Sean_F said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, comes out as a Remainer 'the EU has been the greatest thing for human beings since the Western Roman Empire'

    https://mobile.twitter.com/wareisjoe/status/1003984057787699202

    ++Justin can be silly sometimes
    Better than democracy, or the abolition of slavery, or capitalism?
    The re-uniting of christendom after a couple of centuries of nationalism.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902

    The UK has had this huge problem in which overwhelmingly major business is London-centric / SE for decades. It isn't true in places like Germany, where a number of different cities have different major industries.

    Gordo attempts at redistribution of public sector jobs to the regions, with on eye on stimulating the economy hasn't done much (other than drive up property prices in places like Bristol), and even though London is now bursting at the seams with lack of housing, business and people all still want to locate there.

    The vast majority of undergraduates I have talked to at the big unis measure success as a graduate job in London.

    Answers to the problem on the back of a postcode to ....

    The decline of heavy industry did for our big regional cities. When the factories closed, the support services went to - the commercial lawyers, the accountants, etc. London was big enough to survive this decline because it had the HQs and the City. Services flourished as a result.

    Yaysus they're not dead yet !
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    The great mathematics by Justin and Richard on the earlier thread show the scale of the Tory europhile challenge. They have to find around 15 MPs I think to stage a winning rebellion. Certainly, there are enough with such sympathies, but do they have the bottle? Will take some serious organisation by the likes of Clarke, Soubry and Morgan to pull this off.

    I don't think they have it in them – too many will be cowed by the whips. Party before country.

    But we shall see.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Sean_F said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, comes out as a Remainer 'the EU has been the greatest thing for human beings since the Western Roman Empire'

    https://mobile.twitter.com/wareisjoe/status/1003984057787699202

    ++Justin can be silly sometimes
    Better than democracy, or the abolition of slavery, or capitalism?
    The re-uniting of christendom after a couple of centuries of nationalism.
    So there's no Christendom in Africa or the rest of the world? How imperialistic.
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The astonishing part about the A1 is how there aren't more accidents with people pulling out of petrol stations out onto the road. The slip roads on are near non existant - has it simply not been noted how lethal these are ?
    Other than that it is not a bad road - just I feel some of the whole "smart motorway" spending on the M1 is a waste of cash (And unwanted with the nonsense near constant 60 mph limit) and improving the slip roads to a couple of services on the A1 would have been a far better use of cash.

    The money spent on managed motorways is a disgrace.
    Agreed. Smart motorways are a joke. The M1 is nearly always under speed restrictions. A wiser policy would have been to restrict demand, by offering tax breaks to employers along motorway commuting route who offered rotating working from home to their employees. But that would have required imaginative thinking – all too rare among governments both Labour and Tory I am afraid.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage.

    Jun 2018 - "Project Fear enters the Project Reality stage"
    Ansterday.
    Reng".
    Lisrovide any DATA to back up their claims instead of merely pasting from twatter.
    Luc
    LOL

    Is that really the best response you can make ? Really ?

    And you wonder why nobody believes these predictions of doom any more ?
    Not doom, just a diminution in our wellbeing.

    And which bit do you have a problem with? Carney's rate move, May's bribe, GBP's fall, or the farmer featured in the FT?
    Carney's rate move. It was a puny quarter point reduction that has already been reversed. Normally moves are at least half a point or if crisis moves are considerably more and aren't reversed so quickly.

    GBP's fall. It was forecast as part of Project Fear so can't be used as an argument as to why Project Fear's forecasts haven't happened. Furthermore the fall has actually been less than forecast and pound versus the dollar has again largely recovered already.

    Farmer featured in the FT - So he's having to pay a bit more than minimum wage and install WiFi in his accomodation to improve workers living conditions? That's a problem?
    very funny.

    Carney signalled to the markets that he was ready to act. And you Leavers can't have it both ways - he can't be criticised for instituting a Greenspan Put (as @Charles would have it) and also for it being ineffective as you say.

    My own view accords with yours, AAMOF - it did no good in terms of monetary easing, it was pushing at a piece of string in the current environment, but it did signal to the markets that the BoE was all over Brexit and the risks. He also reestablished QE and spent £100bn on the banks.

    Not sure about your point about GBP. Project Fear is a crock of shit but a Project Fear prediction came true so we can ignore it??

    As for the farmer, as I said - a diminution of our wellbeing.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    edited June 2018
    On non-London cities (and, gasp, towns and villages), this is a very long term thing. It won't be solved over the term of a Parliament. A shift is required in the underlying political landscape.

    My concern is that some may use this to try and advocate regional assemblies, which would be a brilliant way to carve England into pieces lacking the power of Holyrood whilst nevertheless permanently institutionally dividing England. The worst of all worlds.

    An English Parliament cited in the north could work well. Neither part will happen, though.

    Edited extra bit: sited, not cited.
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Pulpstar said:

    It boggles the mind how much power those opposed to LHR expansion seem to possess. As a band I went to recently remarked - if you don't like live music why buynext to a pub. Same for airports, and if your house needs to go you'll get 125% of value plus costs which is a fortune in that area.


    Quite right. I believe we should follow the French system whereby such people have no right to oppose or appeal (this is all as I understand it – and from memory) but get roughly double the market value. It's cheaper in the long run as removes legal wrangling which costs millions and takes years. That way, we might actually be able to build something!
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,291
    This railway mayhem smacks of a nation preoccupied with Brexit and a government paralysed by it. Sadly there seems no end in sight. We'll be spending years - if not decades - hauling ourselves back to where we were pre-Brexit. Everything else will be left by the wayside. Grim.
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Its plan, in regards to Brexit anyway, seems to mainly be to beat the Tories rather than much of a concrete plan on Brexit. I think Labour are worried that any detailed plan would get trashed and scare off voters. So my guess would be Labour is trying to leave much of the details to the Conservatives so they don't have to be seen to be selling out any group or calling for them to be sold out but instead can sympathise with those affected and push for the Tories to be punished for the result.
    Which is just as it should, or rather all that it needs to be for The Opposition.
    Many years ago, I spoke to Michael Heseltine about this stuff (when the Tories were in opposition). He was furious that the Tories had put detail on their policies midterm – (coincidentally enough it was something to do with airport policy as I recall) he told me that the Opposition had "simply released the pressure on the government" by doing so. He was right of course. The point of the Opposition is to oppose – not govern.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,045

    Sean_F said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, comes out as a Remainer 'the EU has been the greatest thing for human beings since the Western Roman Empire'

    https://mobile.twitter.com/wareisjoe/status/1003984057787699202

    ++Justin can be silly sometimes
    Better than democracy, or the abolition of slavery, or capitalism?
    The re-uniting of christendom after a couple of centuries of nationalism.
    So there's no Christendom in Africa or the rest of the world? How imperialistic.
    Not imperialistic, just old-fashioned.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,578
    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The astonishing part about the A1 is how there aren't more accidents with people pulling out of petrol stations out onto the road. The slip roads on are near non existant - has it simply not been noted how lethal these are ?
    Other than that it is not a bad road - just I feel some of the whole "smart motorway" spending on the M1 is a waste of cash (And unwanted with the nonsense near constant 60 mph limit) and improving the slip roads to a couple of services on the A1 would have been a far better use of cash.

    The money spent on managed motorways is a disgrace.
    Agreed. Smart motorways are a joke. The M1 is nearly always under speed restrictions. A wiser policy would have been to restrict demand, by offering tax breaks to employers along motorway commuting route who offered rotating working from home to their employees. But that would have required imaginative thinking – all too rare among governments both Labour and Tory I am afraid.
    Having a near-permanent 50 or 60 mph speed limit is, to me, a Good Thing.

    1. Improves fuel economy, therefore reduced emissions.
    2. More people switch to the train, as driving takes significantly longer, further reducing emissions and reducing road congestion.
    3. For those still driving, flowing at 50 mph is much less stressful than a cavalry charge, hard braking, charge again experience all too common on busy motorways.
    4. It annoys 'petrol heads'.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Those of you in the North only have to wait another 10 years and you will be able to join us in the South even faster by travelling on HS2 (provided you have enough money to buy a single ticket)
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244
    Anazina said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    Its plan, in regards to Brexit anyway, seems to mainly be to beat the Tories rather than much of a concrete plan on Brexit. I think Labour are worried that any detailed plan would get trashed and scare off voters. So my guess would be Labour is trying to leave much of the details to the Conservatives so they don't have to be seen to be selling out any group or calling for them to be sold out but instead can sympathise with those affected and push for the Tories to be punished for the result.
    Which is just as it should, or rather all that it needs to be for The Opposition.
    Many years ago, I spoke to Michael Heseltine about this stuff (when the Tories were in opposition). He was furious that the Tories had put detail on their policies midterm – (coincidentally enough it was something to do with airport policy as I recall) he told me that the Opposition had "simply released the pressure on the government" by doing so. He was right of course. The point of the Opposition is to oppose – not govern.
    The key question of course is whether or to what extent Jezza will suppress or water down his ideals in the pursuit of power when opposing the government. NPXMPX2 thinks less so than McDonnell. But the alternative is for him to row in behind Theresa May's government in key Brexit issues and that is equally unlikely.

    Truly, Brexit is the fuck up of all fuck ups.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    The UK has had this huge problem in which overwhelmingly major business is London-centric / SE for decades. It isn't true in places like Germany, where a number of different cities have different major industries.

    Gordo attempts at redistribution of public sector jobs to the regions, with on eye on stimulating the economy hasn't done much (other than drive up property prices in places like Bristol), and even though London is now bursting at the seams with lack of housing, business and people all still want to locate there.

    The vast majority of undergraduates I have talked to at the big unis measure success as a graduate job in London.

    Answers to the problem on the back of a postcode to ....

    The decline of heavy industry did for our big regional cities. When the factories closed, the support services went to - the commercial lawyers, the accountants, etc. London was big enough to survive this decline because it had the HQs and the City. Services flourished as a result.

    Why did the North put all its eggs in one basket?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. Rentool, also adds to journey time, decreasing productivity.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    This railway mayhem smacks of a nation preoccupied with Brexit and a government paralysed by it. Sadly there seems no end in sight. We'll be spending years - if not decades - hauling ourselves back to where we were pre-Brexit. Everything else will be left by the wayside. Grim.

    It seems Network Rail (100% government owned) assumed passengers could disembark and embark a lot faster in theory than they can in practice. Hence trains unable to kep to the timetable.

    Also some train operators are facing work to rule by their unions but failed to allow for this during a changeover to a new timetable which requires more drivers.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,561

    The UK has had this huge problem in which overwhelmingly major business is London-centric / SE for decades. It isn't true in places like Germany, where a number of different cities have different major industries.

    Gordo attempts at redistribution of public sector jobs to the regions, with on eye on stimulating the economy hasn't done much (other than drive up property prices in places like Bristol), and even though London is now bursting at the seams with lack of housing, business and people all still want to locate there.

    The vast majority of undergraduates I have talked to at the big unis measure success as a graduate job in London.

    Answers to the problem on the back of a postcode to ....

    Would that be on the back of a London postcode? :wink:
  • Options
    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201


    Scott_P said:
    given we ship very little to them ( we tend to send cars not parts ) and import lots the risk sits more on the other side as this cuts both ways

    boost for re-shoring and UK suppliers
    Thankfully we still have business people in the UK that can spot an opportunity and put the investment into realise the profits.

    http://www.libertyhousegroup.com/news/liberty-unveils-10-million-automotive-centre-of-excellence/
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The astonishing part about the A1 is how there aren't more accidents with people pulling out of petrol stations out onto the road. The slip roads on are near non existant - has it simply not been noted how lethal these are ?
    Other than that it is not a bad road - just I feel some of the whole "smart motorway" spending on the M1 is a waste of cash (And unwanted with the nonsense near constant 60 mph limit) and improving the slip roads to a couple of services on the A1 would have been a far better use of cash.

    The money spent on managed motorways is a disgrace.
    Agreed. Smart motorways are a joke. The M1 is nearly always under speed restrictions. A wiser policy would have been to restrict demand, by offering tax breaks to employers along motorway commuting route who offered rotating working from home to their employees. But that would have required imaginative thinking – all too rare among governments both Labour and Tory I am afraid.
    Having a near-permanent 50 or 60 mph speed limit is, to me, a Good Thing.

    1. Improves fuel economy, therefore reduced emissions.
    2. More people switch to the train, as driving takes significantly longer, further reducing emissions and reducing road congestion.
    3. For those still driving, flowing at 50 mph is much less stressful than a cavalry charge, hard braking, charge again experience all too common on busy motorways.
    4. It annoys 'petrol heads'.
    But only point 4 matters to you.....
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,578

    Those of you in the North only have to wait another 10 years and you will be able to join us in the South even faster by travelling on HS2 (provided you have enough money to buy a single ticket)

    The primary purpose of HS2 is to allow London-based civil servants to get to and from meetings in the north much more quickly so that they don't need to spend a night away from home. Thereby minimising their contact with us savages, and reducing spending in hotels, bars and restaurants (yes, we do have them!) in the north.

    BBC 'talent' that is forced to broadcast from Salford will also benefit.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,578

    Mr. Rentool, also adds to journey time, decreasing productivity.

    If you want to be productive on a journey - catch the train.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,578

    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The astonishing part about the A1 is how there aren't more accidents with people pulling out of petrol stations out onto the road. The slip roads on are near non existant - has it simply not been noted how lethal these are ?
    Other than that it is not a bad road - just I feel some of the whole "smart motorway" spending on the M1 is a waste of cash (And unwanted with the nonsense near constant 60 mph limit) and improving the slip roads to a couple of services on the A1 would have been a far better use of cash.

    The money spent on managed motorways is a disgrace.
    Agreed. Smart motorways are a joke. The M1 is nearly always under speed restrictions. A wiser policy would have been to restrict demand, by offering tax breaks to employers along motorway commuting route who offered rotating working from home to their employees. But that would have required imaginative thinking – all too rare among governments both Labour and Tory I am afraid.
    Having a near-permanent 50 or 60 mph speed limit is, to me, a Good Thing.

    1. Improves fuel economy, therefore reduced emissions.
    2. More people switch to the train, as driving takes significantly longer, further reducing emissions and reducing road congestion.
    3. For those still driving, flowing at 50 mph is much less stressful than a cavalry charge, hard braking, charge again experience all too common on busy motorways.
    4. It annoys 'petrol heads'.
    But only point 4 matters to you.....
    I added number 4 as an amusing afterthought. 1 & 2 are sound Greeny-Red reasons and 3 is based on personal experience.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Mr. Rentool, also adds to journey time, decreasing productivity.

    If you want to be productive on a journey - catch the train.
    Trains are only useful if both your home and your destination are near the station. Great for Metropolitan cities like London, not so great otherwise.

    For me its a 40 minute walk to get to the nearest train station. How is that more productive?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244

    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The astonishing part about the A1 is how there aren't more accidents with people pulling out of petrol stations out onto the road. The slip roads on are near non existant - has it simply not been noted how lethal these are ?
    Other than that it is not a bad road - just I feel some of the whole "smart motorway" spending on the M1 is a waste of cash (And unwanted with the nonsense near constant 60 mph limit) and improving the slip roads to a couple of services on the A1 would have been a far better use of cash.

    The money spent on managed motorways is a disgrace.
    Agreed. Smart motorways are a joke. The M1 is nearly always under speed restrictions. A wiser policy would have been to restrict demand, by offering tax breaks to employers along motorway commuting route who offered rotating working from home to their employees. But that would have required imaginative thinking – all too rare among governments both Labour and Tory I am afraid.
    Having a near-permanent 50 or 60 mph speed limit is, to me, a Good Thing.

    1. Improves fuel economy, therefore reduced emissions.
    2. More people switch to the train, as driving takes significantly longer, further reducing emissions and reducing road congestion.
    3. For those still driving, flowing at 50 mph is much less stressful than a cavalry charge, hard braking, charge again experience all too common on busy motorways.
    4. It annoys 'petrol heads'.
    The A14 average 70mph has worked well, IMO
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244

    Mr. Rentool, also adds to journey time, decreasing productivity.

    If you want to be productive on a journey - catch the train.
    Trains are only useful if both your home and your destination are near the station. Great for Metropolitan cities like London, not so great otherwise.

    For me its a 40 minute walk to get to the nearest train station. How is that more productive?
    Get on your...
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,129

    Mr. Rentool, also adds to journey time, decreasing productivity.

    If you want to be productive on a journey - catch the train.
    Trains are only useful if both your home and your destination are near the station. Great for Metropolitan cities like London, not so great otherwise.

    For me its a 40 minute walk to get to the nearest train station. How is that more productive?
    Presumably you will get fitter and spend less time off work with illness?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Sean_F said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, comes out as a Remainer 'the EU has been the greatest thing for human beings since the Western Roman Empire'

    https://mobile.twitter.com/wareisjoe/status/1003984057787699202

    ++Justin can be silly sometimes
    Better than democracy, or the abolition of slavery, or capitalism?
    The re-uniting of christendom after a couple of centuries of nationalism.
    So there's no Christendom in Africa or the rest of the world? How imperialistic.
    Not imperialistic, just old-fashioned.
    No imperialistic. Literally the very thing he's comparing to as the only thing greater in the past two thousand years is the Western Roman Empire. So long as the white Europeans are united then Christendom is and forget about the savages on other continents even if they are Christians.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2018
    TOPPING said:

    Mr. Rentool, also adds to journey time, decreasing productivity.

    If you want to be productive on a journey - catch the train.
    Trains are only useful if both your home and your destination are near the station. Great for Metropolitan cities like London, not so great otherwise.

    For me its a 40 minute walk to get to the nearest train station. How is that more productive?
    Get on your...
    ... drivers seat? ;)

    Incidentally at the train station when I went last week there's signs everywhere about new restrictions on bikes and how they're not going to be permitted on the train anymore unless you've pre-booked that you will be taking one or something like that.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244

    TOPPING said:

    Mr. Rentool, also adds to journey time, decreasing productivity.

    If you want to be productive on a journey - catch the train.
    Trains are only useful if both your home and your destination are near the station. Great for Metropolitan cities like London, not so great otherwise.

    For me its a 40 minute walk to get to the nearest train station. How is that more productive?
    Get on your...
    ... drivers seat? ;)

    Incidentally at the train station when I went last week there's signs everywhere about new restrictions on bikes and how they're not going to be permitted on the train anymore unless you've pre-booked that you will be taking one or something like that.
    Been like that for a long time on eg. GWR. Not noticed it on ECML, that said.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    TOPPING said:

    Mr. Rentool, also adds to journey time, decreasing productivity.

    If you want to be productive on a journey - catch the train.
    Trains are only useful if both your home and your destination are near the station. Great for Metropolitan cities like London, not so great otherwise.

    For me its a 40 minute walk to get to the nearest train station. How is that more productive?
    Get on your...
    ... drivers seat? ;)

    Incidentally at the train station when I went last week there's signs everywhere about new restrictions on bikes and how they're not going to be permitted on the train anymore unless you've pre-booked that you will be taking one or something like that.
    And quite right too. If I had my way, there would be a surcharge for taking a Brompton on SWR.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,045
    Jonathan said:

    The UK has had this huge problem in which overwhelmingly major business is London-centric / SE for decades. It isn't true in places like Germany, where a number of different cities have different major industries.

    Gordo attempts at redistribution of public sector jobs to the regions, with on eye on stimulating the economy hasn't done much (other than drive up property prices in places like Bristol), and even though London is now bursting at the seams with lack of housing, business and people all still want to locate there.

    The vast majority of undergraduates I have talked to at the big unis measure success as a graduate job in London.

    Answers to the problem on the back of a postcode to ....

    The decline of heavy industry did for our big regional cities. When the factories closed, the support services went to - the commercial lawyers, the accountants, etc. London was big enough to survive this decline because it had the HQs and the City. Services flourished as a result.

    Why did the North put all its eggs in one basket?
    It was the growth of those industries that built the northern economy. The underlying weaknesses of the British economy cannot be masked by a massive financial complex of dubious merit and all its attendant industries - legal, accountancy etc which only really provides benefits to London. See Noel Edmonds' gripe about how much Lloyds are spending on lawyers with good reason perhaps!

    I hope people don't by into the infrastructure narrative it's really just a symptom. The financial lobby is huge and terrifies the government so they react with the appropriate infrastructure in London. The real problem is we don't have a plan to make the British economy work beyond being the capital of global money laundering, leveraged finance and soft tax haven status. However in the current climate even these are no longer de rigueur and and London is becoming uncompetitive due to cost. My own city maybe starting to benefit from this as businesses realise you can employ reasonably competent people for £18k in the regions. I would expect much in the long run though, London costs will adjust and the comparative advantage too.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    Hmm, does anyone know if there are any markets for F1 drivers ending up at certain teams next season?

    I'd like to bet on Alonso to Renault if there is a market.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,843
    TOPPING said:

    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The astonishing part about the A1 is how there aren't more accidents with people pulling out of petrol stations out onto the road. The slip roads on are near non existant - has it simply not been noted how lethal these are ?
    Other than that it is not a bad road - just I feel some of the whole "smart motorway" spending on the M1 is a waste of cash (And unwanted with the nonsense near constant 60 mph limit) and improving the slip roads to a couple of services on the A1 would have been a far better use of cash.

    The money spent on managed motorways is a disgrace.
    Agreed. Smart motorways are a joke. The M1 is nearly always under speed restrictions. A wiser policy would have been to restrict demand, by offering tax breaks to employers along motorway commuting route who offered rotating working from home to their employees. But that would have required imaginative thinking – all too rare among governments both Labour and Tory I am afraid.
    Having a near-permanent 50 or 60 mph speed limit is, to me, a Good Thing.

    1. Improves fuel economy, therefore reduced emissions.
    2. More people switch to the train, as driving takes significantly longer, further reducing emissions and reducing road congestion.
    3. For those still driving, flowing at 50 mph is much less stressful than a cavalry charge, hard braking, charge again experience all too common on busy motorways.
    4. It annoys 'petrol heads'.
    The A14 average 70mph has worked well, IMO
    Did they finally finish fixing the A14/M6/M1 junction at Catthorpe?
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited June 2018
    The Adonis Commission is also proposing a motorway (euphemistically called an Expressway) be built between Oxford and Cambridge. This is despite the work already underway to re-build the railway line from Oxford to Cambridge, title East/West Rail.

    Like HS2, it is a vanity project looking for a justification. So far the different reasons given to build it are:

    1. It will allow a million new homes to be built in new cities alongside the motorway

    2. It will serve the million new homes in cities which are going to be built along the route

    3. It will improve travel between Oxford and Cambridge (presumable the East/West Rail will be too expensive for people to use it)

    4. It will provide a route for freight to travel between Southamton and Felixstowe and vice versa (presumably the English Channel will be too blocked for shipping to get through)
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The astonishing part about the A1 is how there aren't more accidents with people pulling out of petrol stations out onto the road. The slip roads on are near non existant - has it simply not been noted how lethal these are ?
    Other than that it is not a bad road - just I feel some of the whole "smart motorway" spending on the M1 is a waste of cash (And unwanted with the nonsense near constant 60 mph limit) and improving the slip roads to a couple of services on the A1 would have been a far better use of cash.

    The money spent on managed motorways is a disgrace.
    Agreed. Smart motorways are a joke. The M1 is nearly always under speed restrictions. A wiser policy would have been to restrict demand, by offering tax breaks to employers along motorway commuting route who offered rotating working from home to their employees. But that would have required imaginative thinking – all too rare among governments both Labour and Tory I am afraid.
    Having a near-permanent 50 or 60 mph speed limit is, to me, a Good Thing.

    1. Improves fuel economy, therefore reduced emissions.
    2. More people switch to the train, as driving takes significantly longer, further reducing emissions and reducing road congestion.
    3. For those still driving, flowing at 50 mph is much less stressful than a cavalry charge, hard braking, charge again experience all too common on busy motorways.
    4. It annoys 'petrol heads'.
    The A14 average 70mph has worked well, IMO
    Did they finally finish fixing the A14/M6/M1 junction at Catthorpe?
    Not sure I'm only on the M1 rarely now given the roadworks, disruptions, etc.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    Carney's rate move. It was a puny quarter point reduction that has already been reversed. Normally moves are at least half a point or if crisis moves are considerably more and aren't reversed so quickly.

    GBP's fall. It was forecast as part of Project Fear so can't be used as an argument as to why Project Fear's forecasts haven't happened. Furthermore the fall has actually been less than forecast and pound versus the dollar has again largely recovered already.

    Farmer featured in the FT - So he's having to pay a bit more than minimum wage and install WiFi in his accomodation to improve workers living conditions? That's a problem?

    very funny.

    Carney signalled to the markets that he was ready to act. And you Leavers can't have it both ways - he can't be criticised for instituting a Greenspan Put (as @Charles would have it) and also for it being ineffective as you say.

    My own view accords with yours, AAMOF - it did no good in terms of monetary easing, it was pushing at a piece of string in the current environment, but it did signal to the markets that the BoE was all over Brexit and the risks. He also reestablished QE and spent £100bn on the banks.

    Not sure about your point about GBP. Project Fear is a crock of shit but a Project Fear prediction came true so we can ignore it??

    As for the farmer, as I said - a diminution of our wellbeing.
    I never criticised him for instituting a Greenspan Put and most criticism I saw from Leavers was that it was unnecessary posturing. If all the market needed to be reassured was a calm statement and a tiny quarter point reduction swiftly reversed then the problems of Brexit can't have been severe.

    As for GBP no that's not what I said. What I said was the Project Fear hasn't come true - the only part that has was sterling falling but by less than forecast. You can't then claim that Project Fear didn't come true because sterling fell. That's like me saying its going to rain so heavily tomorrow that your home will be flooded, then it raining but your house not getting flooded (as I was wrong) then me claiming that the only reason your home didn't flood is because it rained taking the moisture out of the air. Err no.

    As for the farmer - how are increased wages and better living conditions for workers a diminution of our wellbeing? Unless you want our wellbeing to be based on indentured servitude with poor wages and poor living conditions?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. Max, do you have inside info, because that seems like an unusual bet?

    No markets as far as I know (I just check Ladbrokes/Betfair though, so they might be up elsewhere).
  • Options

    Mr. Rentool, also adds to journey time, decreasing productivity.

    If you want to be productive on a journey - catch the train.
    Trains are only useful if both your home and your destination are near the station. Great for Metropolitan cities like London, not so great otherwise.

    For me its a 40 minute walk to get to the nearest train station. How is that more productive?
    For me it's about 5-8 minutes, and I'm in a smallish Northern town. Problem is the trains once you get there...
  • Options
    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    HYUFD said:

    Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury, comes out as a Remainer 'the EU has been the greatest thing for human beings since the Western Roman Empire'

    https://mobile.twitter.com/wareisjoe/status/1003984057787699202

    Well that will resonate with Morris Dancer. Not sure how many other people could use Ancient Rome as a comparator though.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The astonishing part about the A1 is how there aren't more accidents with people pulling out of petrol stations out onto the road. The slip roads on are near non existant - has it simply not been noted how lethal these are ?
    Other than that it is not a bad road - just I feel some of the whole "smart motorway" spending on the M1 is a waste of cash (And unwanted with the nonsense near constant 60 mph limit) and improving the slip roads to a couple of services on the A1 would have been a far better use of cash.

    The money spent on managed motorways is a disgrace.
    Agreed. Smart motorways are a joke. The M1 is nearly always under speed restrictions. A wiser policy would have been to restrict demand, by offering tax breaks to employers along motorway commuting route who offered rotating working from home to their employees. But that would have required imaginative thinking – all too rare among governments both Labour and Tory I am afraid.
    Having a near-permanent 50 or 60 mph speed limit is, to me, a Good Thing.

    1. Improves fuel economy, therefore reduced emissions.
    2. More people switch to the train, as driving takes significantly longer, further reducing emissions and reducing road congestion.
    3. For those still driving, flowing at 50 mph is much less stressful than a cavalry charge, hard braking, charge again experience all too common on busy motorways.
    4. It annoys 'petrol heads'.
    The A14 average 70mph has worked well, IMO
    Did they finally finish fixing the A14/M6/M1 junction at Catthorpe?
    Yes. Coming back from Sheffield Wednesday I got caught in 60 minute jam as the M1 was closed that night during the works. But it was long overdue.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited June 2018
    TOPPING said:

    Mr. Rentool, also adds to journey time, decreasing productivity.

    If you want to be productive on a journey - catch the train.
    Trains are only useful if both your home and your destination are near the station. Great for Metropolitan cities like London, not so great otherwise.

    For me its a 40 minute walk to get to the nearest train station. How is that more productive?
    Get on your...
    Cycling is dangerous, especially in the rain when potholes are filled with water and can't be spotted.

    Apparently there is no money to re-build local roads and solve the pothole problem because it is all being spent on building vanity projects like HS2.
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    DavidL said:

    Mr. Rentool, also adds to journey time, decreasing productivity.

    If you want to be productive on a journey - catch the train.
    Trains are only useful if both your home and your destination are near the station. Great for Metropolitan cities like London, not so great otherwise.

    For me its a 40 minute walk to get to the nearest train station. How is that more productive?
    Presumably you will get fitter and spend less time off work with illness?
    I do a lot of my best work while walking. I find it's a good time to call my clients – the conversations are often more fruitful than when one is sedentary.
This discussion has been closed.