I suspect this latest initiative will be rejected by the EU just like all he earlier ones. They have never had any interest in negotiation which is something the UK side should have realised long ago.
s/negotiating/compromising their core principles/
FTFY
Like so much of what you write that is actually unintelligible.
Negotiation usually involves both parties having some, well I suppose you could call them "red lines" or "backstops" which they are not willing to compromise on. In the EU's case it involves not agreeing to us cherry-picking things we'd like to retain from membership. I don't think wanting to maintain the principle that being a member of the EU gives privileges over not being a member is that unreasonable of them. otherwise what is the point of the EU?
The trouble is they have a contradictory stance. They both want an open border in Ireland but also don’t want to violate their supposed principles. Remember, this isn’t the future trading relationship that is being negotiated here, it’s what happens in the event of no deal.
This is all immensely tedious. Lets just sign up to CU now and be done with it. It's going to be the best deal possible, and probably always was going to be.
I think we just have.
Our position is now to stay in the CU as long as the EU finds that convenient.
As you say, probably the best Deal that we could get.
I thought this was in lieu of a new agreement, or were the EU never serious about this?
As you say, this is a backstop, in lieu of an agreement on avoiding a hard border in Ireland.
The EU has tabled a serious proposal. The UK government has still not been able to agree within itself on a counter proposal. Who isn't being serious here?
The EU have not tabled any proposals about a future treaty because of sequencing.
We were talking about who has put forward serious proposals about avoiding a hard border in Ireland. The EU has. The UK hasn't.
But as you say, and as we all know, the EU have not tabled any proposals about a future treaty because of sequencing (which the UK agreed to).
No the EU has not put forward any proposals to solve the Irish border, all they have said is you caused the problem you solve it to the UK. It is the UK putting forward proposals and the EU rejecting them. What the EU has done and they have broken their rules here is say "we do not want a hard border so in the case of no agreed solution we offer a backstop. The backstop is that NI and NI only not any other part of the UK will remain in the CU and the SM." How they achieve this legally they have not said. But the key point is they have repeated and repeated that it is NI only. T May and her advisers took this and translated it to "if we submit enough proposals then they will say yes to the UK staying in the SM and CU as part of the backstop."
Not so. The EU have provided a comprehensive legal text on withdrawal that includes concrete proposals on the Irish border.
This is all immensely tedious. Lets just sign up to CU now and be done with it. It's going to be the best deal possible, and probably always was going to be.
I think we just have.
Our position is now to stay in the CU as long as the EU finds that convenient.
As you say, probably the best Deal that we could get.
I thought this was in lieu of a new agreement, or were the EU never serious about this?
As you say, this is a backstop, in lieu of an agreement on avoiding a hard border in Ireland.
The EU has tabled a serious proposal. The UK government has still not been able to agree within itself on a counter proposal. Who isn't being serious here?
The EU have not tabled any proposals about a future treaty because of sequencing.
We were talking about who has put forward serious proposals about avoiding a hard border in Ireland. The EU has. The UK hasn't.
But as you say, and as we all know, the EU have not tabled any proposals about a future treaty because of sequencing (which the UK agreed to).
No the EU has not put forward any proposals to solve the Irish border, all they have said is you caused the problem you solve it to the UK. It is the UK putting forward proposals and the EU rejecting them. What the EU has done and they have broken their rules here is say "we do not want a hard border so in the case of no agreed solution we offer a backstop. The backstop is that NI and NI only not any other part of the UK will remain in the CU and the SM." How they achieve this legally they have not said. But the key point is they have repeated and repeated that it is NI only. T May and her advisers took this and translated it to "if we submit enough proposals then they will say yes to the UK staying in the SM and CU as part of the backstop."
Not so. The EU have provided a comprehensive legal text on withdrawal that includes concrete proposals on the Irish border.
In a nutshell that;s why the conservatives are all over the place, youre more interested in your internal squabbles than the electorate.
Problem is there are more people in the electorate than there are in your party
I'm not at all interested in our internal squabbles. Where do I show that I am interested in the party squabbling internally (it is now, of course)?
Modern capitalist societies are problematic. They gi.
I didn't mention anything about the Conservative Party's internal squabbles.
It's enough to make people socialist, which is another phenomenon that has been emerging in case you haven't noticed.
How on earth is UK society aiming to transition to higher value added when the whole premise of UK business is to demand cheap labour ?
There was a time when we used to target a high wage high skill workforce, even the TUs don't do that much more.
It's chalk and apples, Alan. Starbucks having baristas from Portugal doesn't impact the build out of technology parks in Cambridge. Except for the fact that Starbucks might open a new branch there.
Anecdata has it in any case that British people don't necessarily want to work in Starbucks (I'm none too sure but I did have a friend who opened a coffee shop near Drury Lane and received 100 applications to work there, one of which was from a Brit - anecdata as I said) but they sure as hell should aspire to working in Cambridge Science Centre.
It's nonsense Mr T.
The biggest issue we will face is having too many people once next generation automation gets going. Manufacturing will lose lots of jobs to robotics, professional services too. We don't need cheap labour we need skilled people able to interface with machinery and other people.
That's not what any of the political parties is offering atm
Cheap labour is a red herring. And you are in effect endorsing what I am saying because we are in that transition away from manufacturing. And as for political parties you are being unfair on both Labour and the Conservatives.
Cheap Labour is not a red herring, its what the country has been addicted to since 2004 and still cant shake. I had to listen to some remainy dickhead on the radio a week back complaining if there was no access to cheap labour he'd have to train people. Depressing.
As for manufacturing I am not advocating a transition from manufacturing, we need a damned sight more of it to rectify our BoP and pay our way. I am simply pointing out that automation is a big opportunity to do so. A robot is a robot and depreciates on a factory floor in China at the same rate as one in the UK. We need to change our capital allowance system to encourage more high-tech investment and train people up to operate the machine interface.
manufacturing has already sheds loads of jobs and is fairly lean services will take the bigger hit and that will chuck out lots of people. So why do we need to import more ?
As for the political parties it's not what they say its what they do.
This is all immensely tedious. Lets just sign up to CU now and be done with it. It's going to be the best deal possible, and probably always was going to be.
I thought this was in lieu of a new agreement, or were the EU never serious about this?
As you say, this is a backstop, in lieu of an agreement on avoiding a hard border in Ireland.
The EU has tabled a serious proposal. The UK government has still not been able to agree within itself on a counter proposal. Who isn't being serious here?
We were talking about who has put forward serious proposals about avoiding a hard border in Ireland. The EU has. The UK hasn't.
But as you say, and as we all know, the EU have not tabled any proposals about a future treaty because of sequencing (which the UK agreed to).
No the EU has not put forward any proposals to solve the Irish border, all they have said is you caused the problem you solve it to the UK. It is the UK putting forward proposals and the EU rejecting them. What the EU has done and they have broken their rules here is say "we do not want a hard border so in the case of no agreed solution we offer a backstop. The backstop is that NI and NI only not any other part of the UK will remain in the CU and the SM." How they achieve this legally they have not said. But the key point is they have repeated and repeated that it is NI only. T May and her advisers took this and translated it to "if we submit enough proposals then they will say yes to the UK staying in the SM and CU as part of the backstop."
Not so. The EU have provided a comprehensive legal text on withdrawal that includes concrete proposals on the Irish border.
See pages 98-106 Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland.
The UK have provided nothing because the UK government cannot agree with itself.
Isn’t this the proposal that says that NI will stay in the CU and SM? Wow, what an imaginative solution that will in no way inflame tensions.
You said " the EU has not put forward any proposals to solve the Irish border,". That is incorrect. It has put forward concrete proposals. The UK government might not them. The EU has invited the UK to put forward counter proposals and it has failed to do so because it cannot agree within the Cabinet. We all know this. I don't know why we are arguing about it.
Cheap Labour is not a red herring, its what the country has been addicted to since 2004 and still cant shake. I had to listen to some remainy dickhead on the radio a week back complaining if there was no access to cheap labour he'd have to train people. Depressing.
As for manufacturing I am not advocating a transition from manufacturing, we need a damned sight more of it to rectify our BoP and pay our way. I am simply pointing out that automation is a big opportunity to do so. A robot is a robot and depreciates on a factory floor in China at the same rate as one in the UK. We need to change our capital allowance system to encourage more high-tech investment and train people up to operate the machine interface.
manufacturing has already sheds loads of jobs and is fairly lean services will take the bigger hit and that will chuck out lots of people. So why do we need to import more ?
As for the political parties it's not what they say its what they do.
The balance of payments has been deemed unimportant for years. Remainers never mention it.
You said " the EU has not put forward any proposals to solve the Irish border,". That is incorrect. It has put forward concrete proposals. The UK government might not them. The EU has invited the UK to put forward counter proposals and it has failed to do so because it cannot agree within the Cabinet. We all know this. I don't know why we are arguing about it.
I did not say that, you are thinking of someone else. I was talking about the actual FTA we should be negotiating rather than spending months and months and months on the what if scenario. What an utter waste of time.
The EU proposal is simply moving the border to the Irish Sea. The counter proposal is that the whole UK stays in alignment.
Blimey, talk of a sense of humour failure. The jokes aren't even one-sided or if they are, they probably make more fun of the govt. R4's Dead Ringers is back soon, featuring Our Brexit Bulldog.
Cheap Labour is not a red herring, its what the country has been addicted to since 2004 and still cant shake. I had to listen to some remainy dickhead on the radio a week back complaining if there was no access to cheap labour he'd have to train people. Depressing.
As for manufacturing I am not advocating a transition from manufacturing, we need a damned sight more of it to rectify our BoP and pay our way. I am simply pointing out that automation is a big opportunity to do so. A robot is a robot and depreciates on a factory floor in China at the same rate as one in the UK. We need to change our capital allowance system to encourage more high-tech investment and train people up to operate the machine interface.
manufacturing has already sheds loads of jobs and is fairly lean services will take the bigger hit and that will chuck out lots of people. So why do we need to import more ?
As for the political parties it's not what they say its what they do.
The balance of payments has been deemed unimportant for years. Remainers never mention it.
Trump does. Now everyone is going to have to discuss trade flows.
Cheap Labour is not a red herring, its what the country has been addicted to since 2004 and still cant shake. I had to listen to some remainy dickhead on the radio a week back complaining if there was no access to cheap labour he'd have to train people. Depressing.
As for manufacturing I am not advocating a transition from manufacturing, we need a damned sight more of it to rectify our BoP and pay our way. I am simply pointing out that automation is a big opportunity to do so. A robot is a robot and depreciates on a factory floor in China at the same rate as one in the UK. We need to change our capital allowance system to encourage more high-tech investment and train people up to operate the machine interface.
manufacturing has already sheds loads of jobs and is fairly lean services will take the bigger hit and that will chuck out lots of people. So why do we need to import more ?
As for the political parties it's not what they say its what they do.
It is going to come a lot quicker than "experts" think. My brother is joint owner of a business that designs and manufactures production machines. The latest line they have put in for a multinational in Eastern Europe is Italians do the raw material handling, Brits the shaping and cutting, Germans the packaging. Process is artic driver delivers raw materials to hopper on own steam and computers monitor delivery volume and quality. Then there is no person on the production line at all, robot movers pick up single boxes of packaged product and move to dispatch. Then there is now the first human being, currently they require manned forklifts to load the lorries. There is no person in the factory to monitor the machine line as every part is connected to the internet and monitored by the manufacturer. So multinational, means that corp tax will be in some other country if at all, very little income tax but currently lorry driver jobs and security. The Eastern Europeans will soon get hacked off with this deal. His latest employees with the skills he needs, a South African and an Australian (The Aussie said the Unis there are still producing graduates that have the skills, he wanted to specialise in robotics, but that there are no jobs in Aus for this, it is mining).
Because he's an ERG asset and his ego is sufficiently untroubled for him to be able to follow their orders to man his post for the time being? And because time is everything. Dacre has fallen. The cabinet is unlikely to stay in its present shape for much longer.
Because he's an ERG asset and his ego is sufficiently untroubled for him to be able to follow their orders to man his post for the time being? And because time is everything. Dacre has fallen. The cabinet is unlikely to stay in its present shape for much longer.
Cheap Labour is not a red herring, its what the country has been addicted to since 2004 and still cant shake. I had to listen to some remainy dickhead on the radio a week back complaining if there was no access to cheap labour he'd have to train people. Depressing.
As for manufacturing I am not advocating a transition from manufacturing, we need a damned sight more of it to rectify our BoP and pay our way. I am simply pointing out that automation is a big opportunity to do so. A robot is a robot and depreciates on a factory floor in China at the same rate as one in the UK. We need to change our capital allowance system to encourage more high-tech investment and train people up to operate the machine interface.
manufacturing has already sheds loads of jobs and is fairly lean services will take the bigger hit and that will chuck out lots of people. So why do we need to import more ?
As for the political parties it's not what they say its what they do.
It is going to come a lot quicker than "experts" think. My brother is joint owner of a business that designs and manufactures production machines. The latest line they have put in for a multinational in Eastern Europe is Italians do the raw material handling, Brits the shaping and cutting, Germans the packaging. Process is artic driver delivers raw materials to hopper on own steam and computers monitor delivery volume and quality. Then there is no person on the production line at all, robot movers pick up single boxes of packaged product and move to dispatch. Then there is now the first human being, currently they require manned forklifts to load the lorries. There is no person in the factory to monitor the machine line as every part is connected to the internet and monitored by the manufacturer. So multinational, means that corp tax will be in some other country if at all, very little income tax but currently lorry driver jobs and security. The Eastern Europeans will soon get hacked off with this deal. His latest employees with the skills he needs, a South African and an Australian (The Aussie said the Unis there are still producing graduates that have the skills, he wanted to specialise in robotics, but that there are no jobs in Aus for this, it is mining).
yes manufacturing will increasingly be front end programming and production planning and back end packaging and logistics. Very little to do in the middle bar maintenance and repair.
But the fact that the UK comes from such an undeveloped base means that there is huge upside in having the most modern machinery and a follower strategy of avoiding other peoples mistakes.
Trump seems to be losing it. Is the pressure getting to him?
The Obama Administration is now accused of trying to give Iran secret access to the financial system of the United States. This is totally illegal. Perhaps we could get the 13 Angry Democrats to divert some of their energy to this “matter” (as Comey would call it). Investigate!
I suspect this latest initiative will be rejected by the EU just like all he earlier ones. They have never had any interest in negotiation which is something the UK side should have realised long ago.
s/negotiating/compromising their core principles/
FTFY
Like so much of what you write that is actually unintelligible.
Not a SED scripter then.
Nope. I prefer English. Or French or Norwegian. Any of them will do.
Because he's an ERG asset and his ego is sufficiently untroubled for him to be able to follow their orders to man his post for the time being? And because time is everything. Dacre has fallen. The cabinet is unlikely to stay in its present shape for much longer.
You’re predicting a reshuffle, or a GE?
Dacre is there until November and then becomes Editor-in-Chief across Associate, so not sure that changes anything wrt to DD and Brexit.
I never really considered in depth what would happen with Brexit because I never thought the coalition of the elderly and permanently bewildered would be enough to swing it for Leave. However, I would never have dreamt we’d have this turgid slide into surreal chaos with once serious politicians arguing the toss between ‘a’ and ‘the’. Fuck me.
Hungarian has different verb endings depending on whether you are using the definite or indefinite article. It would make customs union discussions much more elegant.
The UK have provided nothing because the UK government cannot agree with itself.
And because it wouldn't play well if they admitted that it's BINO or lose NI.
I don’t think those are the only possible outcomes. The fact that these negotiations are currently focusing on the no deal scenario may make it seem that way...
It's just weird to gloat over your colleagues - I wouldn't do that for an opponent, let alone a nominal ally. This bunch seem a seriously dysfunctional family.
It's just weird to gloat over your colleagues - I wouldn't do that for an opponent, let alone a nominal ally. This bunch seem a seriously dysfunctional family.
My impression too. And no doubt those in the EU are lapping it up.
It's just weird to gloat over your colleagues - I wouldn't do that for an opponent, let alone a nominal ally. This bunch seem a seriously dysfunctional family.
Seems perverse and likely to be counter-productive, if true... but how would we tell if a journalist decided to make it up? If you can't find a source for some juicy quotes how easy it must be to invent an 'anonymous source'.
I suspect this latest initiative will be rejected by the EU just like all he earlier ones. They have never had any interest in negotiation which is something the UK side should have realised long ago.
s/negotiating/compromising their core principles/
FTFY
Like so much of what you write that is actually unintelligible.
Negotiation usually involves both parties having some, well I suppose you could call them "red lines" or "backstops" which they are not willing to compromise on. In the EU's case it involves not agreeing to us cherry-picking things we'd like to retain from membership. I don't think wanting to maintain the principle that being a member of the EU gives privileges over not being a member is that unreasonable of them. otherwise what is the point of the EU?
And yet countries all of the world develop and negotiate arrangements with the EU which are not complete isolation nor full membership. The EEA is a case in point. So the idea that it is all or nothing is clearly rubbish before we even start.
The problem we have is that it was clear from the very start that May was not capable of negotiating a new arrangement because she lacks both a backbone and a brain. As anyone who had watched her 'progress' as Home Secretary would know. The EU side saw this straight away and basically have had absolutely no need to negotiate on anything.
Now this is perfectly normal negotiating tactics. What we needed to do was recognise this from the start and plan for a WTO exit with protection for the basic bits like flights, nuclear and security stuff which was in the interests of both sides. After which we would rebuild links. That is now the only outcome I can see happening anyway but May should have been planning for that (almost) 2 years ago.
It's just weird to gloat over your colleagues - I wouldn't do that for an opponent, let alone a nominal ally. This bunch seem a seriously dysfunctional family.
Seems perverse and likely to be counter-productive, if true... but how would we tell if a journalist decided to make it up? If you can't find a source for some juicy quotes how easy it must be to invent an 'anonymous source'.
It is a clear signal for the EU to just nod and smile at DD, while the grown ups sort things out in the room next door.
Either journalists are making it up, or this gloating by No 10 in its undoubted victory over Davis is unbecoming of the office of the Prime Minister. It reminds me a bit of the loose lipped Tories pre GE17 who were bragging that they'd overturn Tom Watson's majority.
It is and was a sharp contrast to how Ruth Davidson managed Scotland. There wasn't a peep about the hitjob they were about to pull on Salmond in Gordon.
It's just weird to gloat over your colleagues - I wouldn't do that for an opponent, let alone a nominal ally. This bunch seem a seriously dysfunctional family.
Seems perverse and likely to be counter-productive, if true... but how would we tell if a journalist decided to make it up? If you can't find a source for some juicy quotes how easy it must be to invent an 'anonymous source'.
I suggest you or the moderator retract this comment.
I suspect this latest initiative will be rejected by the EU just like all he earlier ones. They have never had any interest in negotiation which is something the UK side should have realised long ago.
s/negotiating/compromising their core principles/
FTFY
Like so much of what you write that is actually unintelligible.
Negotiation usually involves both parties having some, well I suppose you could call them "red lines" or "backstops" which they are not willing to compromise on. In the EU's case it involves not agreeing to us cherry-picking things we'd like to retain from membership. I don't think wanting to maintain the principle that being a member of the EU gives privileges over not being a member is that unreasonable of them. otherwise what is the point of the EU?
And yet countries all of the world develop and negotiate arrangements with the EU which are not complete isolation nor full membership. The EEA is a case in point. So the idea that it is all or nothing is clearly rubbish before we even start.
The problem we have is that it was clear from the very start that May was not capable of negotiating a new arrangement because she lacks both a backbone and a brain. As anyone who had watched her 'progress' as Home Secretary would know. The EU side saw this straight away and basically have had absolutely no need to negotiate on anything.
Now this is perfectly normal negotiating tactics. What we needed to do was recognise this from the start and plan for a WTO exit with protection for the basic bits like flights, nuclear and security stuff which was in the interests of both sides. After which we would rebuild links. That is now the only outcome I can see happening anyway but May should have been planning for that (almost) 2 years ago.
She has lived down to my expectations.
In any other circumstances there would have been a putsch by now to remove the old dragon.
As an aside, does the site feel this makes a second referendum more likely and, should said referendum occur, would option two (the first being to endorse whatever catastrophe May 'negotiates') be to remain, or to leave without a deal?
Catastrophe or catastrophe would be a rubbish question.
I do wonder how far the Brexit lunacy can go. When the present stage of dogwhistling stops, the following will take its place:
* F*** the Irish border; we want Brexit; * F*** empty shelves in Aldi and Lidl; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep NI; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep Scotland; we want Brexit; * F*** a collapse of the food and retail banking systems; everyone who's anyone has got a home or three abroad; * F*** the left, the chavs, schoolteachers, and gentlemen of a Windrush and Oriental persuasion; we're going to remove kebab.
Poundland to close stores and cut jobs. At long last. An economic consequence Brexit voters will understand. So long as someone explains it to them slowly.
Nothing to do with sky high rents and business rates and continuing to integrate the 99p store chain which it overlapped with in many locations it bought a couple of years ago - no people have stopped buying cheap products for £1 due to Brexit?!!
It's never the management's fault anymore or the way they run the business of course.
Sorry but I've heard nothing about Poundland having any difficulties whatsoever. Can you point me in the direction of a news report ?
As an aside, does the site feel this makes a second referendum more likely and, should said referendum occur, would option two (the first being to endorse whatever catastrophe May 'negotiates') be to remain, or to leave without a deal?
Catastrophe or catastrophe would be a rubbish question.
I do wonder how far the Brexit lunacy can go. When the present stage of dogwhistling stops, the following will take its place:
* F*** the Irish border; we want Brexit; * F*** empty shelves in Aldi and Lidl; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep NI; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep Scotland; we want Brexit; * F*** a collapse of the food and retail banking systems; everyone who's anyone has got a home or three abroad; * F*** the left, the chavs, schoolteachers, and gentlemen of a Windrush and Oriental persuasion; we're going to remove kebab.
I suspect this latest initiative will be rejected by the EU just like all he earlier ones. They have never had any interest in negotiation which is something the UK side should have realised long ago.
s/negotiating/compromising their core principles/
FTFY
Like so much of what you write that is actually unintelligible.
Negotiation usually involves both parties having some, well I suppose you could call them "red lines" or "backstops" which they are not willing to compromise on. In the EU's case it involves not agreeing to us cherry-picking things we'd like to retain from membership. I don't think wanting to maintain the principle that being a member of the EU gives privileges over not being a member is that unreasonable of them. otherwise what is the point of the EU?
And yet countries all of the world develop and negotiate arrangements with the EU which are not complete isolation nor full membership. The EEA is a case in point. So the idea that it is all or nothing is clearly rubbish before we even start.
The problem we have is that it was clear from the very start that May was not capable of negotiating a new arrangement because she lacks both a backbone and a brain. As anyone who had watched her 'progress' as Home Secretary would know. The EU side saw this straight away and basically have had absolutely no need to negotiate on anything.
Now this is perfectly normal negotiating tactics. What we needed to do was recognise this from the start and plan for a WTO exit with protection for the basic bits like flights, nuclear and security stuff which was in the interests of both sides. After which we would rebuild links. That is now the only outcome I can see happening anyway but May should have been planning for that (almost) 2 years ago.
She has lived down to my expectations.
In any other circumstances there would have been a putsch by now to remove the old dragon.
I agree. Although in other times they would have looked at her performance as HS and she would never have got close to being PM.
As an aside, does the site feel this makes a second referendum more likely and, should said referendum occur, would option two (the first being to endorse whatever catastrophe May 'negotiates') be to remain, or to leave without a deal?
Catastrophe or catastrophe would be a rubbish question.
I do wonder how far the Brexit lunacy can go. When the present stage of dogwhistling stops, the following will take its place:
* F*** the Irish border; we want Brexit; * F*** empty shelves in Aldi and Lidl; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep NI; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep Scotland; we want Brexit; * F*** a collapse of the food and retail banking systems; everyone who's anyone has got a home or three abroad; * F*** the left, the chavs, schoolteachers, and gentlemen of a Windrush and Oriental persuasion; we're going to remove kebab.
Except this isn’t the negotiation on the future trading relationship. Of course the options are going to be sub-optimal, it’s in the event of a no deal scenario.
It's just weird to gloat over your colleagues - I wouldn't do that for an opponent, let alone a nominal ally. This bunch seem a seriously dysfunctional family.
Seems perverse and likely to be counter-productive, if true... but how would we tell if a journalist decided to make it up? If you can't find a source for some juicy quotes how easy it must be to invent an 'anonymous source'.
You'd get sacked if you were found inventing quotes - ask Boris. (Though that clearly didn't prove fatal to his career.)
As an aside, does the site feel this makes a second referendum more likely and, should said referendum occur, would option two (the first being to endorse whatever catastrophe May 'negotiates') be to remain, or to leave without a deal?
Catastrophe or catastrophe would be a rubbish question.
I do wonder how far the Brexit lunacy can go. When the present stage of dogwhistling stops, the following will take its place:
* F*** the Irish border; we want Brexit; * F*** empty shelves in Aldi and Lidl; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep NI; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep Scotland; we want Brexit; * F*** a collapse of the food and retail banking systems; everyone who's anyone has got a home or three abroad; * F*** the left, the chavs, schoolteachers, and gentlemen of a Windrush and Oriental persuasion; we're going to remove kebab.
It's just weird to gloat over your colleagues - I wouldn't do that for an opponent, let alone a nominal ally. This bunch seem a seriously dysfunctional family.
Seems perverse and likely to be counter-productive, if true... but how would we tell if a journalist decided to make it up? If you can't find a source for some juicy quotes how easy it must be to invent an 'anonymous source'.
I suggest you or the moderator retract this comment.
Ha! I'm not saying this journalist is making it up, I'm just wondering how we would know if a journalist were to make an 'unnamed source' quote up?
It's just weird to gloat over your colleagues - I wouldn't do that for an opponent, let alone a nominal ally. This bunch seem a seriously dysfunctional family.
Seems perverse and likely to be counter-productive, if true... but how would we tell if a journalist decided to make it up? If you can't find a source for some juicy quotes how easy it must be to invent an 'anonymous source'.
I suggest you or the moderator retract this comment.
Ha! I'm not saying this journalist is making it up, I'm just wondering how we would know if a journalist were to make an 'unnamed source' quote up?
Tom Newton Dunn is clearly having fun, but not lieing. The excerpt says 'Gov't source' and he's helpfully narrowed it down to 'No 10 folk'. So using Occum's razor this is a bag carrier at No 10 or some such.
fpt: The most amusing feature of the last 48 hours of shenanigans about Brexit is watching the pundits squirm that they haven't got a resignation so now they're urgung the EU to throw it out, while the never correct Robert Peston now believes DD won't be staying 'for long'. The only thing more shambolic that the two major political parties in the UK is the press reporting of them.
Edited addition: Sam Coates seems to be quite manic about all this - maybe he should go and have a lie down somewhere. His desperate attempts to sow discord are reminiscent of Lord Adonis - and he has never recovered!
Febrile times. Nobody knows anything and all predictions are foolish. The only certainty is that Robert Peston can be relied on to be wrong.
As an aside, does the site feel this makes a second referendum more likely and, should said referendum occur, would option two (the first being to endorse whatever catastrophe May 'negotiates') be to remain, or to leave without a deal?
Catastrophe or catastrophe would be a rubbish question.
I do wonder how far the Brexit lunacy can go. When the present stage of dogwhistling stops, the following will take its place:
* F*** the Irish border; we want Brexit; * F*** empty shelves in Aldi and Lidl; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep NI; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep Scotland; we want Brexit; * F*** a collapse of the food and retail banking systems; everyone who's anyone has got a home or three abroad; * F*** the left, the chavs, schoolteachers, and gentlemen of a Windrush and Oriental persuasion; we're going to remove kebab.
You really do come over as utterly deranged.
And yet more closely aligned to reality than you, my dear chap.
She’s treating and humiliating David Davis the way I would.
Now if Theresa makes Nadine Dorries Ambassador to the Islamic State then Mrs May is perfection.
#TheresaMustStay
Do you seriously think this is the correct way for the PM to behave ? It wasn't right when she did to Osborne and it isn't right now.
There is more of a case for it now. You could argue that Leavers need to have the fact that they are out of options drummed into them if the May settlement is to hold.
She’s treating and humiliating David Davis the way I would.
Now if Theresa makes Nadine Dorries Ambassador to the Islamic State then Mrs May is perfection.
#TheresaMustStay
Do you seriously think this is the correct way for the PM to behave ? It wasn't right when she did to Osborne and it isn't right now.
Cameron and May both afforded Davis a lot of latitude in his roles and he threw it back in their faces.
His smug superior schtick coupled with his repeated threats to resign grate.
If the Exchequer had a penny for every time Davis threatened to resign the UK plc wouldn’t have any national debt.
This is all from Davis winging it in December and only realising what he signed up to.
Yes, there many smug self satisfied people in politics. As PM though, you and your office should be above this nonsense. I vaguely recall the poltical burial of Hoon & Hewitt by Gordon Brown being an occasion where he must have had an implied wee smile about routing his enemies - but Blair always kept his firepower for the Tories.. Even Major after he'd routed the eurosceptics didn't particularly gloat over it iirc - and this is a very minor victory to be making a scene over. Quite honestly its a bit pathetic.
As an aside, does the site feel this makes a second referendum more likely and, should said referendum occur, would option two (the first being to endorse whatever catastrophe May 'negotiates') be to remain, or to leave without a deal?
Catastrophe or catastrophe would be a rubbish question.
I do wonder how far the Brexit lunacy can go. When the present stage of dogwhistling stops, the following will take its place:
* F*** the Irish border; we want Brexit; * F*** empty shelves in Aldi and Lidl; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep NI; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep Scotland; we want Brexit; * F*** a collapse of the food and retail banking systems; everyone who's anyone has got a home or three abroad; * F*** the left, the chavs, schoolteachers, and gentlemen of a Windrush and Oriental persuasion; we're going to remove kebab.
You really do come over as utterly deranged.
And yet more closely aligned to reality than you, my dear chap.
LOL. You must be joking. I am afraid Remaniacs lost all connection with reality years ago. I fear the shock of losing the vote led to them losing their minds as well.
She’s treating and humiliating David Davis the way I would.
Now if Theresa makes Nadine Dorries Ambassador to the Islamic State then Mrs May is perfection.
#TheresaMustStay
Do you seriously think this is the correct way for the PM to behave ? It wasn't right when she did to Osborne and it isn't right now.
Cameron and May both afforded Davis a lot of latitude in his roles and he threw it back in their faces.
His smug superior schtick coupled with his repeated threats to resign grate.
If the Exchequer had a penny for every time Davis threatened to resign the UK plc wouldn’t have any national debt.
This is all from Davis winging it in December and only realising what he signed up to.
Yes, there many smug self satisfied people in politics. As PM though, you and your office should be above this nonsense. I vaguely recall the poltical burial of Hoon & Hewitt by Gordon Brown being an occasion where he must have had an implied wee smile about routing his enemies - but Blair always kept his firepower for the Tories.. Even Major after he'd routed the eurosceptics didn't particularly gloat over it iirc - and this is a very minor victory to be making a scene over. Quite honestly its a bit pathetic.
Davis takes it to a whole new level.
On a personal level I had no problems with May sacking Osborne.
My animus towards Theresa May and her staff was the way they sacked the SPADs/little people that night.
Some of them left Downing Street without their phones, wallets and keys.
She’s treating and humiliating David Davis the way I would.
Now if Theresa makes Nadine Dorries Ambassador to the Islamic State then Mrs May is perfection.
#TheresaMustStay
Do you seriously think this is the correct way for the PM to behave ? It wasn't right when she did to Osborne and it isn't right now.
There is more of a case for it now. You could argue that Leavers need to have the fact that they are out of options drummed into them if the May settlement is to hold.
The political equivalent of Davis' head on a pikestaff pour encourage les autres - hadn't thought of it that way... Will the ERG put up ?
She’s treating and humiliating David Davis the way I would.
Now if Theresa makes Nadine Dorries Ambassador to the Islamic State then Mrs May is perfection.
#TheresaMustStay
Do you seriously think this is the correct way for the PM to behave ? It wasn't right when she did to Osborne and it isn't right now.
There is more of a case for it now. You could argue that Leavers need to have the fact that they are out of options drummed into them if the May settlement is to hold.
As an aside, does the site feel this makes a second referendum more likely and, should said referendum occur, would option two (the first being to endorse whatever catastrophe May 'negotiates') be to remain, or to leave without a deal?
Catastrophe or catastrophe would be a rubbish question.
I do wonder how far the Brexit lunacy can go. When the present stage of dogwhistling stops, the following will take its place:
* F*** the Irish border; we want Brexit; * F*** empty shelves in Aldi and Lidl; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep NI; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep Scotland; we want Brexit; * F*** a collapse of the food and retail banking systems; everyone who's anyone has got a home or three abroad; * F*** the left, the chavs, schoolteachers, and gentlemen of a Windrush and Oriental persuasion; we're going to remove kebab.
You really do come over as utterly deranged.
And yet more closely aligned to reality than you, my dear chap.
LOL. You must be joking. I am afraid Remaniacs lost all connection with reality years ago. I fear the shock of losing the vote led to them losing their minds as well.
Good to hear from someone as firmly grounded in reality as you.
Back to Grenfell it seems everyone is blaming everyone else. RBKC says it was the TMO responsible for the refurb; TMO says it submitted the plans to RBKC; the cladding manufacturer says it was up to the buyers to work out whether their "obviously combustible" cladding should be used; the fire safety advisor says he was not asked to inspect the outside of the building; and the FBU, LFB et al (pretty amazingly IMO) say that the "stay put" strategy was the responsibility of...RBKC!
Corbyn doesn't get it anywhere nearly as badly as miliband (or Cameron for that matter). Ed was a go to gag for most comedians on panel shows for years.
She’s treating and humiliating David Davis the way I would.
Now if Theresa makes Nadine Dorries Ambassador to the Islamic State then Mrs May is perfection.
#TheresaMustStay
Do you seriously think this is the correct way for the PM to behave ? It wasn't right when she did to Osborne and it isn't right now.
There is more of a case for it now. You could argue that Leavers need to have the fact that they are out of options drummed into them if the May settlement is to hold.
The political equivalent of Davis' head on a pikestaff pour encourage les autres - hadn't thought of it that way... Will the ERG put up ?
The ERG are all fart and no follow-through. The proposal will founder on the rocks of the EU's position, not because the moon-howlers start writing letters in green ink to Graham Brady.
More (or less) fun again today. The age of instant tweets and Internet forums can turn any and every drama into a crisis. However did we manage in the past ?
I feel sorry for the poor can - he's been kicked more times than a forward trying to get through the Chelsea or Leeds defences in the early 70s and still the road doesn't end.
I'm also not convinced the public humiliation of a colleague is a sound strategy in the medium to long term - it didn't work well for Margaret Thatcher.
As an aside, does the site feel this makes a second referendum more likely and, should said referendum occur, would option two (the first being to endorse whatever catastrophe May 'negotiates') be to remain, or to leave without a deal?
Catastrophe or catastrophe would be a rubbish question.
I do wonder how far the Brexit lunacy can go. When the present stage of dogwhistling stops, the following will take its place:
* F*** the Irish border; we want Brexit; * F*** empty shelves in Aldi and Lidl; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep NI; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep Scotland; we want Brexit; * F*** a collapse of the food and retail banking systems; everyone who's anyone has got a home or three abroad; * F*** the left, the chavs, schoolteachers, and gentlemen of a Windrush and Oriental persuasion; we're going to remove kebab.
You really do come over as utterly deranged.
And yet more closely aligned to reality than you, my dear chap.
LOL. You must be joking. I am afraid Remaniacs lost all connection with reality years ago. I fear the shock of losing the vote led to them losing their minds as well.
You voted for something that was pretty much, as we are seeing now, undeliverable. Now that's not to say that you shouldn't have voted to leave the EU but you acquiesced in the misrepresentation to the people not only of the Turks, but of the easibility of leaving.
Poundland to close stores and cut jobs. At long last. An economic consequence Brexit voters will understand. So long as someone explains it to them slowly.
Nothing to do with sky high rents and business rates and continuing to integrate the 99p store chain which it overlapped with in many locations it bought a couple of years ago - no people have stopped buying cheap products for £1 due to Brexit?!!
It's never the management's fault anymore or the way they run the business of course.
Sorry but I've heard nothing about Poundland having any difficulties whatsoever. Can you point me in the direction of a news report ?
As an aside, does the site feel this makes a second referendum more likely and, should said referendum occur, would option two (the first being to endorse whatever catastrophe May 'negotiates') be to remain, or to leave without a deal?
Catastrophe or catastrophe would be a rubbish question.
I do wonder how far the Brexit lunacy can go. When the present stage of dogwhistling stops, the following will take its place:
* F*** the Irish border; we want Brexit; * F*** empty shelves in Aldi and Lidl; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep NI; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep Scotland; we want Brexit; * F*** a collapse of the food and retail banking systems; everyone who's anyone has got a home or three abroad; * F*** the left, the chavs, schoolteachers, and gentlemen of a Windrush and Oriental persuasion; we're going to remove kebab.
You really do come over as utterly deranged.
The day I start believing that two sovereign countries can have customs tariffs between them but still have a 300-mile long open border is when I will be deranged.
Poundland to close stores and cut jobs. At long last. An economic consequence Brexit voters will understand. So long as someone explains it to them slowly.
Nothing to do with sky high rents and business rates and continuing to integrate the 99p store chain which it overlapped with in many locations it bought a couple of years ago - no people have stopped buying cheap products for £1 due to Brexit?!!
It's never the management's fault anymore or the way they run the business of course.
Sorry but I've heard nothing about Poundland having any difficulties whatsoever. Can you point me in the direction of a news report ?
As an aside, does the site feel this makes a second referendum more likely and, should said referendum occur, would option two (the first being to endorse whatever catastrophe May 'negotiates') be to remain, or to leave without a deal?
Catastrophe or catastrophe would be a rubbish question.
I do wonder how far the Brexit lunacy can go. When the present stage of dogwhistling stops, the following will take its place:
* F*** the Irish border; we want Brexit; * F*** empty shelves in Aldi and Lidl; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep NI; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep Scotland; we want Brexit; * F*** a collapse of the food and retail banking systems; everyone who's anyone has got a home or three abroad; * F*** the left, the chavs, schoolteachers, and gentlemen of a Windrush and Oriental persuasion; we're going to remove kebab.
You really do come over as utterly deranged.
And yet more closely aligned to reality than you, my dear chap.
LOL. You must be joking. I am afraid Remaniacs lost all connection with reality years ago. I fear the shock of losing the vote led to them losing their minds as well.
You voted for something that was pretty much, as we are seeing now, undeliverable. Now that's not to say that you shouldn't have voted to leave the EU but you acquiesced in the misrepresentation to the people not only of the Turks, but of the easibility of leaving.
And you say you're the sane one!
Still telling porkies as usual Topping. I suppose considering the amount of time you have been lying it is second nature to you now and so impossible to stop.
Poundland to close stores and cut jobs. At long last. An economic consequence Brexit voters will understand. So long as someone explains it to them slowly.
Nothing to do with sky high rents and business rates and continuing to integrate the 99p store chain which it overlapped with in many locations it bought a couple of years ago - no people have stopped buying cheap products for £1 due to Brexit?!!
It's never the management's fault anymore or the way they run the business of course.
Sorry but I've heard nothing about Poundland having any difficulties whatsoever. Can you point me in the direction of a news report ?
Yep. Poundland's problems started well before the referendum and have continued ever since.
I think its PoundWorld which is in trouble.
No idea about Poundworld but Poundland are certainly in trouble. They have applied for a CVA which will allow them to close stores and pull out of rental agreements and are currently in urgent restructuring talks.
As an aside, does the site feel this makes a second referendum more likely and, should said referendum occur, would option two (the first being to endorse whatever catastrophe May 'negotiates') be to remain, or to leave without a deal?
Catastrophe or catastrophe would be a rubbish question.
I do wonder how far the Brexit lunacy can go. When the present stage of dogwhistling stops, the following will take its place:
* F*** the Irish border; we want Brexit; * F*** empty shelves in Aldi and Lidl; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep NI; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep Scotland; we want Brexit; * F*** a collapse of the food and retail banking systems; everyone who's anyone has got a home or three abroad; * F*** the left, the chavs, schoolteachers, and gentlemen of a Windrush and Oriental persuasion; we're going to remove kebab.
You really do come over as utterly deranged.
And yet more closely aligned to reality than you, my dear chap.
LOL. You must be joking. I am afraid Remaniacs lost all connection with reality years ago. I fear the shock of losing the vote led to them losing their minds as well.
You voted for something that was pretty much, as we are seeing now, undeliverable. Now that's not to say that you shouldn't have voted to leave the EU but you acquiesced in the misrepresentation to the people not only of the Turks, but of the easibility of leaving.
And you say you're the sane one!
Still telling porkies as usual Topping. I suppose considering the amount of time you have been lying it is second nature to you now and so impossible to stop.
nah, you're just a bit of a fruitloop, Richard. Which is fine and it all adds to the gaiety of the site so keep at it.
As an aside, does the site feel this makes a second referendum more likely and, should said referendum occur, would option two (the first being to endorse whatever catastrophe May 'negotiates') be to remain, or to leave without a deal?
Catastrophe or catastrophe would be a rubbish question.
I do wonder how far the Brexit lunacy can go. When the present stage of dogwhistling stops, the following will take its place:
* F*** the Irish border; we want Brexit; * F*** empty shelves in Aldi and Lidl; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep NI; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep Scotland; we want Brexit; * F*** a collapse of the food and retail banking systems; everyone who's anyone has got a home or three abroad; * F*** the left, the chavs, schoolteachers, and gentlemen of a Windrush and Oriental persuasion; we're going to remove kebab.
You really do come over as utterly deranged.
The day I start believing that two sovereign countries can have customs tariffs between them but still have a 300-mile long open border is when I will be deranged.
Depends on the definition of open border. A physically open border would be easy, you just do the customs check elsewhere.
They opened a lot of new stores in 2015-16 in direct competition to Pound land and other discount retailers. The one in East Ham is now called Poundworld Plus because some items are on sale for more than a pound.
As with so many other stores, greedy landlords keep on trying to hike rents and the stores can't pay. The collapse in the commercial rented sector can't be far off even in London but what the "High Street" will look like in 10 years remains to be seen.
She’s treating and humiliating David Davis the way I would.
Now if Theresa makes Nadine Dorries Ambassador to the Islamic State then Mrs May is perfection.
#TheresaMustStay
Do you seriously think this is the correct way for the PM to behave ? It wasn't right when she did to Osborne and it isn't right now.
Cameron and May both afforded Davis a lot of latitude in his roles and he threw it back in their faces.
His smug superior schtick coupled with his repeated threats to resign grate.
If the Exchequer had a penny for every time Davis threatened to resign the UK plc wouldn’t have any national debt.
This is all from Davis winging it in December and only realising what he signed up to.
Yes, there many smug self satisfied people in politics. As PM though, you and your office should be above this nonsense. I vaguely recall the poltical burial of Hoon & Hewitt by Gordon Brown being an occasion where he must have had an implied wee smile about routing his enemies - but Blair always kept his firepower for the Tories.. Even Major after he'd routed the eurosceptics didn't particularly gloat over it iirc - and this is a very minor victory to be making a scene over. Quite honestly its a bit pathetic.
As an aside, does the site feel this makes a second referendum more likely and, should said referendum occur, would option two (the first being to endorse whatever catastrophe May 'negotiates') be to remain, or to leave without a deal?
Catastrophe or catastrophe would be a rubbish question.
I do wonder how far the Brexit lunacy can go. When the present stage of dogwhistling stops, the following will take its place:
* F*** the Irish border; we want Brexit; * F*** empty shelves in Aldi and Lidl; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep NI; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep Scotland; we want Brexit; * F*** a collapse of the food and retail banking systems; everyone who's anyone has got a home or three abroad; * F*** the left, the chavs, schoolteachers, and gentlemen of a Windrush and Oriental persuasion; we're going to remove kebab.
You really do come over as utterly deranged.
And yet more closely aligned to reality than you, my dear chap.
LOL. You must be joking. I am afraid Remaniacs lost all connection with reality years ago. I fear the shock of losing the vote led to them losing their minds as well.
You voted for something that was pretty much, as we are seeing now, undeliverable. Now that's not to say that you shouldn't have voted to leave the EU but you acquiesced in the misrepresentation to the people not only of the Turks, but of the easibility of leaving.
And you say you're the sane one!
Still telling porkies as usual Topping. I suppose considering the amount of time you have been lying it is second nature to you now and so impossible to stop.
nah, you're just a bit of a fruitloop, Richard. Which is fine and it all adds to the gaiety of the site so keep at it.
Whereas your continual dishonesty just brings the site into disrepute.
Back to Grenfell it seems everyone is blaming everyone else. RBKC says it was the TMO responsible for the refurb; TMO says it submitted the plans to RBKC; the cladding manufacturer says it was up to the buyers to work out whether their "obviously combustible" cladding should be used; the fire safety advisor says he was not asked to inspect the outside of the building; and the FBU, LFB et al (pretty amazingly IMO) say that the "stay put" strategy was the responsibility of...RBKC!
My bet is that the inquiry will share out the blame between multiple people and organisations; no-one wanted this to happen, and no one single action has led to it (all IMO). Therefore the CYA actions are, whilst fairly reprehensible, understandable given the point-scoring that is being made out of it.
As someone noted the other day, the council might actually come out of this better than some of the more fevered voices might like.
I'd expect (and hope) half-a-dozen or so major recommendations to come out of the inquiry to prevent similar future tragedies, and many more minor recommendations.
As an aside, does the site feel this makes a second referendum more likely and, should said referendum occur, would option two (the first being to endorse whatever catastrophe May 'negotiates') be to remain, or to leave without a deal?
Catastrophe or catastrophe would be a rubbish question.
I do wonder how far the Brexit lunacy can go. When the present stage of dogwhistling stops, the following will take its place:
* F*** the Irish border; we want Brexit; * F*** empty shelves in Aldi and Lidl; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep NI; we want Brexit; * F*** whether or not we keep Scotland; we want Brexit; * F*** a collapse of the food and retail banking systems; everyone who's anyone has got a home or three abroad; * F*** the left, the chavs, schoolteachers, and gentlemen of a Windrush and Oriental persuasion; we're going to remove kebab.
You really do come over as utterly deranged.
And yet more closely aligned to reality than you, my dear chap.
LOL. You must be joking. I am afraid Remaniacs lost all connection with reality years ago. I fear the shock of losing the vote led to them losing their minds as well.
You voted for something that was pretty much, as we are seeing now, undeliverable. Now that's not to say that you shouldn't have voted to leave the EU but you acquiesced in the misrepresentation to the people not only of the Turks, but of the easibility of leaving.
And you say you're the sane one!
Still telling porkies as usual Topping. I suppose considering the amount of time you have been lying it is second nature to you now and so impossible to stop.
nah, you're just a bit of a fruitloop, Richard. Which is fine and it all adds to the gaiety of the site so keep at it.
Whereas your continual dishonesty just brings the site into disrepute.
Back to Grenfell it seems everyone is blaming everyone else. RBKC says it was the TMO responsible for the refurb; TMO says it submitted the plans to RBKC; the cladding manufacturer says it was up to the buyers to work out whether their "obviously combustible" cladding should be used; the fire safety advisor says he was not asked to inspect the outside of the building; and the FBU, LFB et al (pretty amazingly IMO) say that the "stay put" strategy was the responsibility of...RBKC!
My bet is that the inquiry will share out the blame between multiple people and organisations; no-one wanted this to happen, and no one single action has led to it (all IMO). Therefore the CYA actions are, whilst fairly reprehensible, understandable given the point-scoring that is being made out of it.
As someone noted the other day, the council might actually come out of this better than some of the more fevered voices might like.
I'd expect (and hope) half-a-dozen or so major recommendations to come out of the inquiry to prevent similar future tragedies, and many more minor recommendations.
Well the most obvious one is the cladding but it seems that that scare in Camden aside, I don't believe anyone has done anything to address the issue. Cost, presumably, being the reason.
She’s treating and humiliating David Davis the way I would.
Now if Theresa makes Nadine Dorries Ambassador to the Islamic State then Mrs May is perfection.
#TheresaMustStay
Do you seriously think this is the correct way for the PM to behave ? It wasn't right when she did to Osborne and it isn't right now.
Cameron and May both afforded Davis a lot of latitude in his roles and he threw it back in their faces.
His smug superior schtick coupled with his repeated threats to resign grate.
If the Exchequer had a penny for every time Davis threatened to resign the UK plc wouldn’t have any national debt.
This is all from Davis winging it in December and only realising what he signed up to.
Davis has been poor. He should have begun WTO Brexit planning on day one. If he had then the threat of no deal Brexit would be much less potent and the EU would be much more amenable to a longer term deal knowing that any losses from no deal would be relatively minor.
The whole of the City has countless reports which outline that path, Davis chose to ignore the advice.
"Brexit educates the senses, calls into action the will, perfects the physical constitution, brings men into such swift and close collision in critical moments that man measures man."
She’s treating and humiliating David Davis the way I would.
Now if Theresa makes Nadine Dorries Ambassador to the Islamic State then Mrs May is perfection.
#TheresaMustStay
Do you seriously think this is the correct way for the PM to behave ? It wasn't right when she did to Osborne and it isn't right now.
Cameron and May both afforded Davis a lot of latitude in his roles and he threw it back in their faces.
His smug superior schtick coupled with his repeated threats to resign grate.
If the Exchequer had a penny for every time Davis threatened to resign the UK plc wouldn’t have any national debt.
This is all from Davis winging it in December and only realising what he signed up to.
Davis has been poor. He should have begun WTO Brexit planning on day one. If he had then the threat of no deal Brexit would be much less potent and the EU would be much more amenable to a longer term deal knowing that any losses from no deal would be relatively minor.
The whole of the City has countless reports which outline that path, Davis chose to ignore the advice.
Again that decision was not his. The fault for all of this lies squarely with May.
Back to Grenfell it seems everyone is blaming everyone else. RBKC says it was the TMO responsible for the refurb; TMO says it submitted the plans to RBKC; the cladding manufacturer says it was up to the buyers to work out whether their "obviously combustible" cladding should be used; the fire safety advisor says he was not asked to inspect the outside of the building; and the FBU, LFB et al (pretty amazingly IMO) say that the "stay put" strategy was the responsibility of...RBKC!
My bet is that the inquiry will share out the blame between multiple people and organisations; no-one wanted this to happen, and no one single action has led to it (all IMO). Therefore the CYA actions are, whilst fairly reprehensible, understandable given the point-scoring that is being made out of it.
As someone noted the other day, the council might actually come out of this better than some of the more fevered voices might like.
I'd expect (and hope) half-a-dozen or so major recommendations to come out of the inquiry to prevent similar future tragedies, and many more minor recommendations.
Unless someone did something obviously and clearly wrong, I don’t think anyone should be ‘blamed”. This should be looked at in the same way as aircraft crashes are; almost certainly no-one is blamed, but a whole lot of recomendations are made. I doubt that this will satisfy some at least of the residents or at least their ‘supporters’ who are taking the line that, in the words of the late Stanley Holloway ‘somebody ought to be summonsed’.
"Brexit educates the senses, calls into action the will, perfects the physical constitution, brings men into such swift and close collision in critical moments that man measures man."
A very apt misquote. Aside from being less injurious to life, Brexit has a lot in common with war: futility, wastefulness, encouragement of hatred and intolerance all spring to mind.
She’s treating and humiliating David Davis the way I would.
Now if Theresa makes Nadine Dorries Ambassador to the Islamic State then Mrs May is perfection.
#TheresaMustStay
Do you seriously think this is the correct way for the PM to behave ? It wasn't right when she did to Osborne and it isn't right now.
Cameron and May both afforded Davis a lot of latitude in his roles and he threw it back in their faces.
His smug superior schtick coupled with his repeated threats to resign grate.
If the Exchequer had a penny for every time Davis threatened to resign the UK plc wouldn’t have any national debt.
This is all from Davis winging it in December and only realising what he signed up to.
Davis has been poor. He should have begun WTO Brexit planning on day one. If he had then the threat of no deal Brexit would be much less potent and the EU would be much more amenable to a longer term deal knowing that any losses from no deal would be relatively minor.
The whole of the City has countless reports which outline that path, Davis chose to ignore the advice.
In fairness to DD etc., WTO terms were laughingly dismissed during the campaign as part of Project Fear. Amidst the fervid atmosphere immediately after the vote, It would have been a brave man to then pipe up and declare they were on the cards all along. The country would have exploded into civil war if the Leavers had pulled that one!
It would be handy to have a rollcall of those of pb's Leavers who remain happy with the course of negotiations. That list does seem to have shrunk substantially in recent weeks.
Comments
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/draft_withdrawal_agreement.pdf
See pages 98-106 Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland.
The UK have provided nothing because the UK government cannot agree with itself.
https://twitter.com/C_MorrittEsq/status/1003552276668207104
Cheap Labour is not a red herring, its what the country has been addicted to since 2004 and still cant shake. I had to listen to some remainy dickhead on the radio a week back complaining if there was no access to cheap labour he'd have to train people. Depressing.
As for manufacturing I am not advocating a transition from manufacturing, we need a damned sight more of it to rectify our BoP and pay our way. I am simply pointing out that automation is a big opportunity to do so. A robot is a robot and depreciates on a factory floor in China at the same rate as one in the UK. We need to change our capital allowance system to encourage more high-tech investment and train people up to operate the machine interface.
manufacturing has already sheds loads of jobs and is fairly lean services will take the bigger hit and that will chuck out lots of people. So why do we need to import more ?
As for the political parties it's not what they say its what they do.
https://twitter.com/pippacrerar/status/1004675965707018240?s=21
https://twitter.com/rbrharrison/status/1004741062571814912
The EU proposal is simply moving the border to the Irish Sea. The counter proposal is that the whole UK stays in alignment.
Process is artic driver delivers raw materials to hopper on own steam and computers monitor delivery volume and quality. Then there is no person on the production line at all, robot movers pick up single boxes of packaged product and move to dispatch. Then there is now the first human being, currently they require manned forklifts to load the lorries. There is no person in the factory to monitor the machine line as every part is connected to the internet and monitored by the manufacturer.
So multinational, means that corp tax will be in some other country if at all, very little income tax but currently lorry driver jobs and security. The Eastern Europeans will soon get hacked off with this deal.
His latest employees with the skills he needs, a South African and an Australian (The Aussie said the Unis there are still producing graduates that have the skills, he wanted to specialise in robotics, but that there are no jobs in Aus for this, it is mining).
But the fact that the UK comes from such an undeveloped base means that there is huge upside in having the most modern machinery and a follower strategy of avoiding other peoples mistakes.
The problem we have is that it was clear from the very start that May was not capable of negotiating a new arrangement because she lacks both a backbone and a brain. As anyone who had watched her 'progress' as Home Secretary would know. The EU side saw this straight away and basically have had absolutely no need to negotiate on anything.
Now this is perfectly normal negotiating tactics. What we needed to do was recognise this from the start and plan for a WTO exit with protection for the basic bits like flights, nuclear and security stuff which was in the interests of both sides. After which we would rebuild links. That is now the only outcome I can see happening anyway but May should have been planning for that (almost) 2 years ago.
She has lived down to my expectations.
Hell, that probably already happening.
It is and was a sharp contrast to how Ruth Davidson managed Scotland. There wasn't a peep about the hitjob they were about to pull on Salmond in Gordon.
I do wonder how far the Brexit lunacy can go. When the present stage of dogwhistling stops, the following will take its place:
* F*** the Irish border; we want Brexit;
* F*** empty shelves in Aldi and Lidl; we want Brexit;
* F*** whether or not we keep NI; we want Brexit;
* F*** whether or not we keep Scotland; we want Brexit;
* F*** a collapse of the food and retail banking systems; everyone who's anyone has got a home or three abroad;
* F*** the left, the chavs, schoolteachers, and gentlemen of a Windrush and Oriental persuasion; we're going to remove kebab.
She’s treating and humiliating David Davis the way I would.
Now if Theresa makes Nadine Dorries Ambassador to the Islamic State then Mrs May is perfection.
#TheresaMustStay
His smug superior schtick coupled with his repeated threats to resign grate.
If the Exchequer had a penny for every time Davis threatened to resign the UK plc wouldn’t have any national debt.
This is all from Davis winging it in December and only realising what he signed up to.
Even Major after he'd routed the eurosceptics didn't particularly gloat over it iirc - and this is a very minor victory to be making a scene over. Quite honestly its a bit pathetic.
On a personal level I had no problems with May sacking Osborne.
My animus towards Theresa May and her staff was the way they sacked the SPADs/little people that night.
Some of them left Downing Street without their phones, wallets and keys.
Will the ERG put up ?
'Never in the field of political negotiation has so much press and hot air been expended for such a little matter'
More (or less) fun again today. The age of instant tweets and Internet forums can turn any and every drama into a crisis. However did we manage in the past ?
I feel sorry for the poor can - he's been kicked more times than a forward trying to get through the Chelsea or Leeds defences in the early 70s and still the road doesn't end.
I'm also not convinced the public humiliation of a colleague is a sound strategy in the medium to long term - it didn't work well for Margaret Thatcher.
And you say you're the sane one!
As with so many other stores, greedy landlords keep on trying to hike rents and the stores can't pay. The collapse in the commercial rented sector can't be far off even in London but what the "High Street" will look like in 10 years remains to be seen.
As someone noted the other day, the council might actually come out of this better than some of the more fevered voices might like.
I'd expect (and hope) half-a-dozen or so major recommendations to come out of the inquiry to prevent similar future tragedies, and many more minor recommendations.
The whole of the City has countless reports which outline that path, Davis chose to ignore the advice.
Our trade body met with him and Liam Fox back in the Autumn of 2016.
Neither of them thought no deal was ever going to happen.
They genuinely believed the EU would roll over and give us whatever we wanted.
I doubt that this will satisfy some at least of the residents or at least their ‘supporters’ who are taking the line that, in the words of the late Stanley Holloway ‘somebody ought to be summonsed’.