Remainers need to grapple with the fact that the social class AB was the only class to vote remain.
e Remainers ("a third of the population are putting on Union Jack cufflinks") live in a remote & fantastical world.
Leavers need to grapple with the fact that 48% voted to Remain and at present at best Leave is level pegging on whether it’s a good idea.
Once they have understood that they might comprehend a little more about the country they are living in.
PS Kudos to you for overlords”, but it’s a view I suppose.
chortle
remain lost the vote because they didn't understand their own country
Leave won beo them.
I don't recall leave pandering to international bankers
Yes very droll. Lable facts.
ah the xenophobe bluster
are you happy staying in an EU which has Italy and Malta as members ? Or Mrs Merkel who is now quietly trying to turf out all those immigrants she invited in ?
Er, yes to the Italy andof Brexit we get.
Mrs Merkel is largely the source of henion she should consult her neighbours as to the consequences
she hasnt done any of that.
Agree. Shocking.
But nothing to do with the instit ours.
au contraire
anyone Merkel lets in can come to UK the EU is now threatening countries that refuse to take the people Merkel doesn't want EU money will be used for a crisis Merkel created
In truth she was plain wrong. Cameron's approach of refugee support was correct and is also in line with what war refugees themselves want
What do you mean "can come to"? Anyone "can come to" the UK, just about.
can come by right Mr T as youre wnautaire.
I still don't understand. Can a Syrian refugee who arrives in Germany today come straight to the UK? And if so, in what capacity (tourist, future PM, long term leave to remain, etc)?
that depends on what permissions they are given by the Germans. There are various types of residency.
hence the Germans not knowing what papers have been issued is a bit of a problem
any way fun as this is I now have to do some chores, enjoy Kim and Don :-)
The guilt by association arguments are becoming tedious.
I don't care that Putin supports Trump or Brexit, I dont care that Gerry Adams supports Corbyn or Jimmy Saville loved Maggie. That Liam Brady was a Lib Dem, Fred West a Residents Association man, and Noel Edmunds a Green. I dont make up my mind based on who's side I'm on, or which side has the less twats, I make up my mind based on the issues as I understand them. So lets discuss those issues please not the bellends that attach themselves to any cause.
So please I come to Pb (long time lurker) to hear the issues not a tedious 'someone who voted the same way as you is a wrong 'un so that means what you voted is evil.'
I am not following the ins and outs at the moment but am assuming that No Deal is more likely than not. Would that be a fair assessment?
A deal will probably be done in the end, probably essentially on the EU's terms. I'd put the chance of No Deal at no more than 20% and probably lower now.
The time when No Deal was more likely was in the run-up to last December. When the Leavers blinked then, a deal became the great likelihood. We are now just observing the long march towards the negotiated surrender.
I don't think that's true. The only conclusion I can reach from last December is that the brexiteers didn't understand what they'd signed up to. I think that when it's spelled out in black and white, the chances of No Deal increase dramatically. From where we are at the moment, they could well be topside of 50%.
Brexiteers did not sign up to anything in December - May (a Remainer) did that. The Brexiteers were not at all happy. Then, as I recall, she then briefed out to all the Brexiteers that the backstop text was just a form of words to allow us to discuss the trade agreement and that it didn't mean anything.
It was May who either did not understand what she signed up for, or more likely was completely outmanoeuvred by Barnier who she obviously was daft enough to think was dealing in good faith.
No deal chance increased when May did not walk in February when the EU provided the totally unacceptable backstop text. The moment she tried to work out how to concede on that, she started running out of road.
You're missing the point. Leave won. The nature of its victory must now be addressed. So it's not about blaming xenophobic lies, it's about how you incorporate those xenophobic lies into the body politic.
That's why Leave has been so utterly unpersuasive to date - many Remain supporters cannot countenance getting anywhere near that campaign. That's why Leave has floundered in setting a positive agenda or in identifying a future course of action for the country that the EU will work with - all it had were xenophobic lies to secure victory. That's why national newspapers two years on are putting fascist tropes on their front pages to bully MPs into a highly tendentious view of what the referendum vote required.
Until Leavers come to terms with the basis of their own victory, the country will continue in its divided state, on a downward spiral.
Leave won because we really don't like the EU very much. Even many that voted remain don't like it; they were just scared of the consequences. That is what we need to address. We need to leave. Everything else is up for reasonable discussion but bad losers really don't advance the argument. Make the case for a CU. Make the case for membership of the SM. Engage. Don't sit there in the huff accusing people of being xenophobes because they disagreed with you.
The Leave campaign fell in behind xenophobic lies. That is the nature of the victory that has to be delivered. Look at the front pages of the newspapers this morning. Leave enabled that. This is the country that Leave campaigners have produced. Until enough Leave campaigners realise that there are more important things for the body politic than whether or not Britain is in the EU, questions of a customs union or the single market are entirely moot.
It seems that Remain supporters are more clear-eyed about the consequences of this than Leave supporters, who are so exultant about having recaptured their precious that they have failed to notice that they sold their souls to do so.
Meanwhile, people change jobs more often than they used to and have reduced security, sometimes little more than a self-employed independent contractor would have. This results in a decline in productivity:
a) employees feel less loyal to someone who gives them few/no employment rights or even uses a zero hours contract b) a person new to a job tends to be less productive until they're familiar with it.
OK, leaders only sign something after a couple of hours if (one or more of):
- It doesn't really say anything important; - One side is dictating terms; - One side isn't paying attention; - It was all agreed beforehand
Guesses?
The meeting was all about symbolism, so your point 1 applies, and up to a point so does point 4. But that doesn't make it a waste of time. If there's one thing we know about Trump, it's that he's driven by personal instinct. He seems to have satisfied himself that Kim is on the level, and Kim can reasonably hope that he will impulsively order some concessions on sanctions. We've just seen at the G8 that Trump doesn't go along with vague agreements unless he essentially likes the people he's dealing with.
Yes, but where does that get us? Trump has rehabilitated the Kim regime for a set of aspirations, all of which had been agreed in previous statements.As far as I can tell, the only firm commitment Kim has given is to repatriate the remains of Korean War PoWs and MIAs.
Where does it get us ? To the end of Trump's term without a nuclear exchange, probably.*
While Trump's worst instincts (i.e. Bolton's instincts) are under control, we all ought to sleep slightly better at night.
The leaders having met does mean that some of their prestige is tied up with the continuation of the process - and that is not the smallest consideration in Trump's case... or the short guy's for that matter.
*For which I'd happily grant him the peace prize....
A serious problem Remain had was that for decades politicians had tried triangulating the EU, lacking the intelligence/courage to either be properly sceptical or actually make the case for the EU. There were often sceptic sounds accompanied by sell-out actions (cf Lisbon and the referendum-that-never-was). But you can't triangulate in a binary choice referendum. There's no soft and fuzzy middle way. It's in, or out.
Make the case for a CU. Make the case for membership of the SM. Engage.
The case was made.
And dismissed as "Project fear" by Brexiteers who claimed "we have had enough of experts"
It's still up for grabs. I for one do not think that the vote for Leave settled everything and that it is open to May or anyone else to define what that meant beyond the fact of leaving. The lack of a meaningful discussion about what we want our relationship to be with the EU after we leave has been an enormous weakness, both inside the government and out. It really is time we moved on.
The guilt by association arguments are becoming tedious.
I don't care that Putin supports Trump or Brexit, I dont care that Gerry Adams supports Corbyn or Jimmy Saville loved Maggie. That Liam Brady was a Lib Dem, Fred West a Residents Association man, and Noel Edmunds a Green. I dont make up my mind based on who's side I'm on, or which side has the less twats, I make up my mind based on the issues as I understand them. So lets discuss those issues please not the bellends that attach themselves to any cause.
So please I come to Pb (long time lurker) to hear the issues not a tedious 'someone who voted the same way as you is a wrong 'un so that means what you voted is evil.'
While I agree with that, it does not mean one should automatically dismiss allegations of covert and likely illegal electoral interference.
But nothing to do with the institution of the EU. Don't forget, EU members are and always were sovereign. She should no sooner have consulted us on her non-EU immigration policy as we needed to consult Poland on ours.
Except that's not true. I think you're displaying your ignorance on what "always were sovereign" actually means once more.
Hey guv'nor don't blame me, take it up with the Secretary of State for Exiting the EU.
The SoS has never said it in the way you misinterpret it.
He said it. It's not too tricky a sentence to deconstruct.
Nope. Quote the full quote.
You quote the full quote. Jeez what am I your Google bitch?
Meanwhile, people change jobs more often than they used to and have reduced security, sometimes little more than a self-employed independent contractor would have. This results in a decline in productivity:
a) employees feel less loyal to someone who gives them few/no employment rights or even uses a zero hours contract b) a person new to a job tends to be less productive until they're familiar with it.
I would like to say that being self-employed does not reduce productivity but having spent the last hour or so on PB....Time for work.
The guilt by association arguments are becoming tedious.
I don't care that Putin supports Trump or Brexit, I dont care that Gerry Adams supports Corbyn or Jimmy Saville loved Maggie. That Liam Brady was a Lib Dem, Fred West a Residents Association man, and Noel Edmunds a Green. I dont make up my mind based on who's side I'm on, or which side has the less twats, I make up my mind based on the issues as I understand them. So lets discuss those issues please not the bellends that attach themselves to any cause.
So please I come to Pb (long time lurker) to hear the issues not a tedious 'someone who voted the same way as you is a wrong 'un so that means what you voted is evil.'
While I agree with that, it does not mean one should automatically dismiss allegations of covert and likely illegal electoral interference.
It's all fun and games till the pink haired young man starts sobbing on stage.
Context matters TOPPING. You can't just snip a few words out of context from the rest of the sentence let alone speech as often that will completely change its meaning. I can do the same to you otherwise.
In this thread you have written that on the topic of non-EU migration that Merkel should
You're missing the point. Leave won. The nature of its victory must now be addressed. So it's not about blaming xenophobic lies, it's about how you incorporate those xenophobic lies into the body politic.
That's why Leave has been so utterly unpersuasive to date - many Remain supporters cannot countenance getting anywhere near that campaign. That's why Leave has floundered in setting a positive agenda or in identifying a future course of action for the country that the EU will work with - all it had were xenophobic lies to secure victory. That's why national newspapers two years on are putting fascist tropes on their front pages to bully MPs into a highly tendentious view of what the referendum vote required.
Until Leavers come to terms with the basis of their own victory, the country will continue in its divided state, on a downward spiral.
Leave won because we really don't like the EU very much. Even many that voted remain don't like it; they were just scared of the consequences. That is what we need to address. We need to leave. Everything else is up for reasonable discussion but bad losers really don't advance the argument. Make the case for a CU. Make the case for membership of the SM. Engage. Don't sit there in the huff accusing people of being xenophobes because they disagreed with you.
The Leave campaign fell in behind xenophobic lies. That is the nature of the victory that has to be delivered. Look at the front pages of the newspapers this morning. Leave enabled that. This is the country that Leave campaigners have produced. Until enough Leave campaigners realise that there are more important things for the body politic than whether or not Britain is in the EU, questions of a customs union or the single market are entirely moot.
It seems that Remain supporters are more clear-eyed about the consequences of this than Leave supporters, who are so exultant about having recaptured their precious that they have failed to notice that they sold their souls to do so.
Elections are won by winning over the undecided voters in the middle. Do you honestly think that Aaron Banks and Farage swung the vote by convincing a couple of million centrist voters to vote Leave by tapping into their latent xenophobia?
If anything would've put me off voting Leave it would've been Aaron Banks. The man is a fucking tosser. Dominic Cummings showed his street-smarts by avoiding him like the plague.
By the way, your sneering hatred of British voters definitely outweighs the hatred Britain's rampaging working class xenophobes have for all those foreigners we live next door to.
Make the case for a CU. Make the case for membership of the SM. Engage.
The case was made.
And dismissed as "Project fear" by Brexiteers who claimed "we have had enough of experts"
It's still up for grabs. I for one do not think that the vote for Leave settled everything and that it is open to May or anyone else to define what that meant beyond the fact of leaving. The lack of a meaningful discussion about what we want our relationship to be with the EU after we leave has been an enormous weakness, both inside the government and out. It really is time we moved on.
That's unlike you to be so snide, David. Every time May tries "to define what that meant beyond the fact of leaving" she is shouted down as a traitor.
A serious problem Remain had was that for decades politicians had tried triangulating the EU, lacking the intelligence/courage to either be properly sceptical or actually make the case for the EU. There were often sceptic sounds accompanied by sell-out actions (cf Lisbon and the referendum-that-never-was). But you can't triangulate in a binary choice referendum. There's no soft and fuzzy middle way. It's in, or out.
Absolutely. They also used it as a boogeyman to give a fig-leaf to their own decisions: "No, we have to do this because of the EU" when they were at best gold-plating to excess and at worst being directly dishonest. Then, to their profound surprise, they find out people actually believed them in the past.
The EU didn't help matters by actually doing a bunch of things that were at least similar enough to the sort of things the politicians ascribed to them, increasing the credibility of the politicians' slopey-shoulderedness, and having a constant tin ear to complaints about democracy and pressure to go further.
Anyway, the discussion has once more degenerated into out-group signalling and insults from all sides, so probably not worth continuing until at least the next thread.
Make the case for a CU. Make the case for membership of the SM. Engage.
The case was made.
And dismissed as "Project fear" by Brexiteers who claimed "we have had enough of experts"
It's still up for grabs. I for one do not think that the vote for Leave settled everything and that it is open to May or anyone else to define what that meant beyond the fact of leaving. The lack of a meaningful discussion about what we want our relationship to be with the EU after we leave has been an enormous weakness, both inside the government and out. It really is time we moved on.
That's unlike you to be so snide, David. Every time May tries "to define what that meant beyond the fact of leaving" she is shouted down as a traitor.
I am not being snide at all. Personally I think we have to give weight to the fact that the vote was close. I want a soft Brexit with large scale cooperation with the EU. I think that properly reflects where we are as a country. The people shouting are some Brexit extremists who are trying to own the vote and claim it means things it didn't. The remainers should be making the counter argument and some are but most are still in the huff about the result and coming out with trite nonsense like you Brexit, you own it or xenophobic lies. We are missing their contribution to the debate and it is making May's life more difficult than it was already.
In gaming news, E3 is almost over and it looks to me as if Sony are gearing up for a PS5 in November of 2019. Not a single game shown last night was scheduled to release after that date and 10 out of their 16 studios are silently working on something unknown and with no date attached. Bring on the good times!
The new CD Projekt Red game looks decidedly uninspiring, which is a shame after TW3 was so amazing. I think they will struggle to fill out an almost original concept world. With TW most of the work was done for them by the writer, with this the original writer already seems disappointed.
A serious problem Remain had was that for decades politicians had tried triangulating the EU, lacking the intelligence/courage to either be properly sceptical or actually make the case for the EU. There were often sceptic sounds accompanied by sell-out actions (cf Lisbon and the referendum-that-never-was). But you can't triangulate in a binary choice referendum. There's no soft and fuzzy middle way. It's in, or out.
Absolutely. They also used it as a boogeyman to give a fig-leaf to their own decisions: "No, we have to do this because of the EU" when they were at best gold-plating to excess and at worst being directly dishonest. Then, to their profound surprise, they find out people actually believed them in the past.
The EU didn't help matters by actually doing a bunch of things that were at least similar enough to the sort of things the politicians ascribed to them, increasing the credibility of the politicians' slopey-shoulderedness, and having a constant tin ear to complaints about democracy and pressure to go further.
David Cameron's musings, policy, words and action on immigration were the biggest driver of all. The 330,000 immigration number that came out during the campaign was absolute dynamite to his whole schtick.
In gaming news, E3 is almost over and it looks to me as if Sony are gearing up for a PS5 in November of 2019. Not a single game shown last night was scheduled to release after that date and 10 out of their 16 studios are silently working on something unknown and with no date attached. Bring on the good times!
The new CD Projekt Red game looks decidedly uninspiring, which is a shame after TW3 was so amazing. I think they will struggle to fill out an almost original concept world. With TW most of the work was done for them by the writer, with this the original writer already seems disappointed.
Since the release of the PSX subsequent models have taken 6, 6 and 7 years to be launched. 2019 will be 6 years after PS4's launch so it does sound believable.
EDIT: I'd more expect 2020 though. If games are already scheduled to be launched until just before the 'holiday season' of 2019 then that probably will be the last huzzah of PS4 games.
You keep saying that Gove was misquoted but have you actually read your link? It confirms Gove did say: I think that the people of this country have had enough of experts.
The guilt by association arguments are becoming tedious.
I don't care that Putin supports Trump or Brexit, I dont care that Gerry Adams supports Corbyn or Jimmy Saville loved Maggie. That Liam Brady was a Lib Dem, Fred West a Residents Association man, and Noel Edmunds a Green. I dont make up my mind based on who's side I'm on, or which side has the less twats, I make up my mind based on the issues as I understand them. So lets discuss those issues please not the bellends that attach themselves to any cause.
So please I come to Pb (long time lurker) to hear the issues not a tedious 'someone who voted the same way as you is a wrong 'un so that means what you voted is evil.'
While I agree with that, it does not mean one should automatically dismiss allegations of covert and likely illegal electoral interference.
Absolutely. Banks and anyone else implicated should answer to the Select Committees and then - if the Committee thinks it warrents it - to the police and CPS.
A serious problem Remain had was that for decades politicians had tried triangulating the EU, lacking the intelligence/courage to either be properly sceptical or actually make the case for the EU. There were often sceptic sounds accompanied by sell-out actions (cf Lisbon and the referendum-that-never-was). But you can't triangulate in a binary choice referendum. There's no soft and fuzzy middle way. It's in, or out.
Absolutely. They also used it as a boogeyman to give a fig-leaf to their own decisions: "No, we have to do this because of the EU" when they were at best gold-plating to excess and at worst being directly dishonest. Then, to their profound surprise, they find out people actually believed them in the past.
The EU didn't help matters by actually doing a bunch of things that were at least similar enough to the sort of things the politicians ascribed to them, increasing the credibility of the politicians' slopey-shoulderedness, and having a constant tin ear to complaints about democracy and pressure to go further.
David Cameron's musings, policy, words and action on immigration were the biggest driver of all. The 330,000 immigration number that came out during the campaign was absolute dynamite to his whole schtick.
I think the most damaging thing about the migration stats was that finally, finally migration from the A8 countries had slowed down but almost immediately the accession controls came off Romania and sent the net migration figures to record levels as loads of unskilled Romanians turned up at Heathrow looking for work.
I think Romania joining the EU and being given full access to free movement was the difference between a narrow leave win and a narrow remain win. Without Romanian immigration, that 330k net migration figure would have been more like 200k and falling, allowing the government to paint a picture of falling net migration, something they were bringing under control even within the EU structures. Add to that the general positive attitude that most Brits have towards Polish people and I think remain would have scored a victory.
You keep saying that Gove was misquoted but have you actually read your link? It confirms Gove did say: I think that the people of this country have had enough of experts.
Only if you cut out the rest of the sentence which completely changes the meaning of the sentence. That's dishonest as I just demonstrated by taking TOPPING's words out of context to reverse their meaning.
How does it show honesty and integrity to resign on the day of the vote, when your colleagues would have been counting on your support until that point?
How does it show honesty and integrity to resign on the day of the vote, when your colleagues would have been counting on your support until that point?
Standard fare is to either resign on the day of the vote - or to not resign, rebel and be sacked. At least he resigned the morning of the vote and not by walking through the wrong division without declaring he would.
How does it show honesty and integrity to resign on the day of the vote, when your colleagues would have been counting on your support until that point?
Standard fare is to either resign on the day of the vote - or to not resign, rebel and be sacked. At least he resigned the morning of the vote and not by walking through the wrong division without declaring he would.
He’s calling for a second referendum, for goodness’ sake!
He should be expelled from the party. If he has any honour he’ll resign his seat, as he clearly has no loyalty to the manifesto on which he won it.
How does it show honesty and integrity to resign on the day of the vote, when your colleagues would have been counting on your support until that point?
Standard fare is to either resign on the day of the vote - or to not resign, rebel and be sacked. At least he resigned the morning of the vote and not by walking through the wrong division without declaring he would.
I think the optics of it are the other way around. If he’d rebelled on the vote and resigned or been sacked, his name would be lost in the coverage of the votes themselves. By stepping down in the morning his resignation is now leading the news.
You keep saying that Gove was misquoted but have you actually read your link? It confirms Gove did say: I think that the people of this country have had enough of experts.
Only if you cut out the rest of the sentence which completely changes the meaning of the sentence. That's dishonest as I just demonstrated by taking TOPPING's words out of context to reverse their meaning.
Anyway, the discussion has once more degenerated into out-group signalling and insults from all sides, so probably not worth continuing until at least the next thread.
Imagine what social media would have been like, had it existed in the 70's or 80's.
You keep saying that Gove was misquoted but have you actually read your link? It confirms Gove did say: I think that the people of this country have had enough of experts.
Only if you cut out the rest of the sentence which completely changes the meaning of the sentence. That's dishonest as I just demonstrated by taking TOPPING's words out of context to reverse their meaning.
Gove was interrupted but he did say it and the rest of the sentence does not materially alter its meaning. The interview is on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGgiGtJk7MA
Mr. Max, interesting view on the PS5. I had heard it was coming soon, but maybe in 20 or 21. I'll hold off on buying, even if the money's there, after the bullshit they pulled with the PS4 Pro.
The Last of Us II looks intriguing.
Mr. L, interrupting someone halfway through a message and then presenting their truncated remark as a full quote is as silly as claiming Caesar made his wife sit on the roof after saying: "Caesar's wife must be above".
Mr. B, true. There does seem a willingness from the noisier Remainers to attribute losing to every kind of unfairness and cheating, though, rather than accept it as a democratic decision or even that the EU just isn't well-liked here. They're keener to accept Russian interference, evil use of data, widespread racism etc etc.
Edited extra bit: Mr. L, 'experts' who are consistently wrong (such as on the single currency) should not have their opinions treated as gospel truth or privileged and insightful.
That's why Leave has been so unpersuasive to date - many Remain supporters cannot countenance getting anywhere near that campaign. That's why Leave has floundered in setting a positive agenda or in identifying a future course of action for the country that the EU will work with - all it had were xenophobic lies to secure victory. That's why national newspapers two years on are putting fascist tropes on their front pages to bully MPs into a highly tendentious view of what the referendum vote required.
Until Leavers come to terms with the basis of their own victory, the country will continue in its divided state, on a downward spiral.
Leave won because we really don't like the EU very much. they were just scared of the consequences. That is what we need to address. We need to leave. Everything else is up for reasonable discussion but bad losers really don't advance the argument. Make the case for a CU. Make the case for membership of the SM. Engage. Don't sit there in the huff accusing people of being xenophobes because they disagreed with you.
The Leave campaign fell in behind xenophobic lies. That is the nature of the victory that has to be delivered. Look at the front pages of the newspapers this morning. Leave enabled that. This is the country that Leave campaigners have produced. Until enough Leave campaigners realise that there are more important things for the body politic than whether or not Britain is in the EU, questions of a customs union or the single market are entirely moot.
It seems that Remain supporters are more clear-eyed about the consequences of this than Leave supporters, who are so exultant about having recaptured their precious that they have failed to notice that they sold their souls to do so.
Elections are won by winning over the undecided voters in the middle. Do you honestly think that Aaron Banks and Farage swung the vote by convincing a couple of million centrist voters to vote Leave by tapping into their latent xenophobia?
If anything would've put me off voting Leave it would've been Aaron Banks. The man is a fucking tosser. Dominic Cummings showed his street-smarts by avoiding him like the plague.
By the way, your sneering hatred of British voters definitely outweighs the hatred Britain's rampaging working class xenophobes have for all those foreigners we live next door to.
The xenophobes aren't working class. They're middle class 'Mail readers' who don't like foreigners and who want a return to the days of the Empire. They're millions of Paul Dacres and of a similar age. It's a rebellion by the old and therefore the less educated. If Cameron could have persuaded his EU counterparts to agree to hanging and flogging he'd almost certainly have got over the line
There does seem a willingness from the noisier Remainers to attribute losing to every kind of unfairness and cheating, though, rather than accept it as a democratic decision or even that the EU just isn't well-liked here. They're keener to accept Russian interference, evil use of data, widespread racism etc etc.
The evidence of Russian interference is clear
Why are leavers so determined to ignore it?
Are they scared acknowledging it would undermine the win?
How does it show honesty and integrity to resign on the day of the vote, when your colleagues would have been counting on your support until that point?
Standard fare is to either resign on the day of the vote - or to not resign, rebel and be sacked. At least he resigned the morning of the vote and not by walking through the wrong division without declaring he would.
He’s calling for a second referendum, for goodness’ sake!
He should be expelled from the party. If he has any honour he’ll resign his seat, as he clearly has no loyalty to the manifesto on which he won it.
Did you ever call for the expulsion of the Maastricht rebels?
There does seem a willingness from the noisier Remainers to attribute losing to every kind of unfairness and cheating, though, rather than accept it as a democratic decision or even that the EU just isn't well-liked here. They're keener to accept Russian interference, evil use of data, widespread racism etc etc.
The evidence of Russian interference is clear
Who changed their voting intention because of Russians ?
How does it show honesty and integrity to resign on the day of the vote, when your colleagues would have been counting on your support until that point?
Standard fare is to either resign on the day of the vote - or to not resign, rebel and be sacked. At least he resigned the morning of the vote and not by walking through the wrong division without declaring he would.
He’s calling for a second referendum, for goodness’ sake!
He should be expelled from the party. If he has any honour he’ll resign his seat, as he clearly has no loyalty to the manifesto on which he won it.
Did you ever call for the expulsion of the Maastricht rebels?
Seeing as I was still too young to go to school, no.
Mr. P, any credible claims of foreign interference should be taken seriously and investigated by the appropriate authorities. It's a matter of importance, so no suggestion of foreigners trying to alter our democratic process should be at the back of the queue.
How does it show honesty and integrity to resign on the day of the vote, when your colleagues would have been counting on your support until that point?
Standard fare is to either resign on the day of the vote - or to not resign, rebel and be sacked. At least he resigned the morning of the vote and not by walking through the wrong division without declaring he would.
He’s calling for a second referendum, for goodness’ sake!
He should be expelled from the party. If he has any honour he’ll resign his seat, as he clearly has no loyalty to the manifesto on which he won it.
Did you ever call for the expulsion of the Maastricht rebels?
Seeing as I was 3 at the time, no.
But if you don’t want to appear to be a hypocrite you’ll agree not expelling the Maastricht rebels creates a precedent for not expelling Philip Lee.
You keep saying that Gove was misquoted but have you actually read your link? It confirms Gove did say: I think that the people of this country have had enough of experts.
Only if you cut out the rest of the sentence which completely changes the meaning of the sentence. That's dishonest as I just demonstrated by taking TOPPING's words out of context to reverse their meaning.
Gove was interrupted but he did say it and the rest of the sentence does not materially alter its meaning. The interview is on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGgiGtJk7MA
Plus, politicians are or should be aware of the takeaways from what they say. From now is not the time for experts, to Davis' we always were sovereign, ever since May's nasty party, and Fatch's no such thing as society, etc...
They know and have been trained on how the media works and how a particular soundbite will play out and are perfectly aware of what that takeaway will be and what will become the narrative, no matter the context of the other words in the sentence.
Why does it matter that Brexit is going badly, assuming that it is (which itself is a tendentious assumption) ? We didn't vote for any particular kind of Brexit. We voted for Brexit whatever. And Brexit Whatever is what we will get.
How does it show honesty and integrity to resign on the day of the vote, when your colleagues would have been counting on your support until that point?
Standard fare is to either resign on the day of the vote - or to not resign, rebel and be sacked. At least he resigned the morning of the vote and not by walking through the wrong division without declaring he would.
He’s calling for a second referendum, for goodness’ sake!
He should be expelled from the party. If he has any honour he’ll resign his seat, as he clearly has no loyalty to the manifesto on which he won it.
Did you ever call for the expulsion of the Maastricht rebels?
Seeing as I was 3 at the time, no.
But if you don’t want to appear to be a hypocrite you’ll agree not expelling the Maastricht rebels creates a precedent for not expelling Philip Lee.
I don’t agree at all. We never had a referendum to approve the Maastricht Treaty. If we had, it might have been rejected. It only passed in France thanks to the votes of the dom-toms.
How does it show honesty and integrity to resign on the day of the vote, when your colleagues would have been counting on your support until that point?
Standard fare is to either resign on the day of the vote - or to not resign, rebel and be sacked. At least he resigned the morning of the vote and not by walking through the wrong division without declaring he would.
He’s calling for a second referendum, for goodness’ sake!
He should be expelled from the party. If he has any honour he’ll resign his seat, as he clearly has no loyalty to the manifesto on which he won it.
Did you ever call for the expulsion of the Maastricht rebels?
Seeing as I was 3 at the time, no.
But if you don’t want to appear to be a hypocrite you’ll agree not expelling the Maastricht rebels creates a precedent for not expelling Philip Lee.
I agree Dr Lee shouldn't be expelled at this stage but I'm sure his association in Bracknell will be taking a very close look at his conduct (given the Bracknell Parliamentary Constituency itself voted to leave and he was subsequently elected on a manifesto commitment to leave the EU, SM and CU...)
Why does it matter that Brexit is going badly, assuming that it is (which itself is a tendentious assumption.) We didn't vote for any particular kind of Brexit. We voted for Brexit whatever. And Brexit Whatever is what we will get.
Why does it matter that Brexit is going badly, assuming that it is (which itself is a tendentious assumption) ? We didn't vote for any particular kind of Brexit. We voted for Brexit whatever. And Brexit Whatever is what we will get.
Another remainer blinded by dogmatism who can't agree to compromise and ignores the voters in his own constituency.
If he had any integrity he would step down as MP for Bracknell.
He's finished anyway.
On that basis, John Redwood should be deselected. Wokingham voted Remain.
In fact, MPs are representatives not delegates.
That is correct.
In the matter of Brexit, they did however choose to behave as if they were delegates. I am not sure why they did that, and personally i think it was a shirking of responsibilities, but that is what they did and there is no way back from it now.
How does it show honesty and integrity to resign on the day of the vote, when your colleagues would have been counting on your support until that point?
Standard fare is to either resign on the day of the vote - or to not resign, rebel and be sacked. At least he resigned the morning of the vote and not by walking through the wrong division without declaring he would.
He’s calling for a second referendum, for goodness’ sake!
He should be expelled from the party. If he has any honour he’ll resign his seat, as he clearly has no loyalty to the manifesto on which he won it.
Did you ever call for the expulsion of the Maastricht rebels?
Seeing as I was 3 at the time, no.
But if you don’t want to appear to be a hypocrite you’ll agree not expelling the Maastricht rebels creates a precedent for not expelling Philip Lee.
I don’t agree at all. We never had a referendum to approve the Maastricht Treaty. If we had, it might have been rejected. It only passed in France thanks to the votes of the dom-toms.
We had a manifesto commitment to ratify the Maastricht treaty.
Anyway, the discussion has once more degenerated into out-group signalling and insults from all sides, so probably not worth continuing until at least the next thread.
Imagine what social media would have been like, had it existed in the 70's or 80's.
Why does it matter that Brexit is going badly, assuming that it is (which itself is a tendentious assumption) ? We didn't vote for any particular kind of Brexit. We voted for Brexit whatever. And Brexit Whatever is what we will get.
What's to complain about?
We voted for unicorns. We want our unicorns...
Well that's OK, Scott. The Government then simply passes the Unicorns For Everyone Act and it has done its job. When Unicorns fail to appear as a consequence, the Government simply points out that is because unicorns do not exist, but that is hardly the Government's fault. It has done the will of the people. It can do no more.
Anyway, the discussion has once more degenerated into out-group signalling and insults from all sides, so probably not worth continuing until at least the next thread.
Imagine what social media would have been like, had it existed in the 70's or 80's.
In gaming news, E3 is almost over and it looks to me as if Sony are gearing up for a PS5 in November of 2019. Not a single game shown last night was scheduled to release after that date and 10 out of their 16 studios are silently working on something unknown and with no date attached. Bring on the good times!
The new CD Projekt Red game looks decidedly uninspiring, which is a shame after TW3 was so amazing. I think they will struggle to fill out an almost original concept world. With TW most of the work was done for them by the writer, with this the original writer already seems disappointed.
I thought the cyberpunk game looked interesting. The EA conference was shockingly bad and uninspiring is too kind a word. Interesting to see Microsoft buying up some pretty biggest studios.
Another remainer blinded by dogmatism who can't agree to compromise and ignores the voters in his own constituency.
If he had any integrity he would step down as MP for Bracknell.
He's finished anyway.
On that basis, John Redwood should be deselected. Wokingham voted Remain.
In fact, MPs are representatives not delegates.
That is correct.
In the matter of Brexit, they did however choose to behave as if they were delegates. I am not sure why they did that, and personally i think it was a shirking of responsibilities, but that is what they did and there is no way back from it now.
When parliament puts a question to the public, it is essentially saying that it doesn't have the authority to make the decision by itself and it needs to be resolved by the people themselves. Of course, for practical purposes, it might also be for lesser political reasons but it is now probably a convention (at the very least, an expectation), that referendums are the accepted method of resolving first-order political questions, of which membership of the EU is one.
Consequently, having referred a question to the people, the cannot act as representatives on that question because it's already been resolved and the debate had outside of parliament. MPs roles then become closer to that of an executive, in determining how to implement the decision.
How does it show honesty and integrity to resign on the day of the vote, when your colleagues would have been counting on your support until that point?
Standard fare is to either resign on the day of the vote - or to not resign, rebel and be sacked. At least he resigned the morning of the vote and not by walking through the wrong division without declaring he would.
He’s calling for a second referendum, for goodness’ sake!
He should be expelled from the party. If he has any honour he’ll resign his seat, as he clearly has no loyalty to the manifesto on which he won it.
Did you ever call for the expulsion of the Maastricht rebels?
Seeing as I was 3 at the time, no.
But if you don’t want to appear to be a hypocrite you’ll agree not expelling the Maastricht rebels creates a precedent for not expelling Philip Lee.
I don’t agree at all. We never had a referendum to approve the Maastricht Treaty. If we had, it might have been rejected. It only passed in France thanks to the votes of the dom-toms.
We had a manifesto commitment to ratify the Maastricht treaty.
Did the Maastricht rebels make clear their opposition to the party stance before the election? That is a genuine question.
There does seem a willingness from the noisier Remainers to attribute losing to every kind of unfairness and cheating, though, rather than accept it as a democratic decision or even that the EU just isn't well-liked here. They're keener to accept Russian interference, evil use of data, widespread racism etc etc.
The evidence of Russian interference is clear
Who changed their voting intention because of Russians ?
Can you name anyone ?
Everyone knows that I was ardently pro-EU till I saw an ad on Facebook.
Personally I don't know what the like's of Dr Lee are worrying about... Its perfectly obvious Theresa is going to keep us tied up as a vassal state of the EU for years and years and years and so we'll never really leave the EU.
All people like Dr Lee are doing is raising the tensions and risking the implosion of Theresa May... For Remainers Theresa May is the gift that keeps on giving... From their point of view its madness to do anything to that puts her position at risk.
Another remainer blinded by dogmatism who can't agree to compromise and ignores the voters in his own constituency.
If he had any integrity he would step down as MP for Bracknell.
He's finished anyway.
On that basis, John Redwood should be deselected. Wokingham voted Remain.
In fact, MPs are representatives not delegates.
That is correct.
In the matter of Brexit, they did however choose to behave as if they were delegates. I am not sure why they did that, and personally i think it was a shirking of responsibilities, but that is what they did and there is no way back from it now.
When parliament puts a question to the public, it is essentially saying that it doesn't have the authority to make the decision by itself and it needs to be resolved by the people themselves. Of course, for practical purposes, it might also be for lesser political reasons but it is now probably a convention (at the very least, an expectation), that referendums are the accepted method of resolving first-order political questions, of which membership of the EU is one.
Consequently, having referred a question to the people, the cannot act as representatives on that question because it's already been resolved and the debate had outside of parliament. MPs roles then become closer to that of an executive, in determining how to implement the decision.
Absolutely, David.
Or to put it another way, 'Ask a silly question......'
How does it show honesty and integrity to resign on the day of the vote, when your colleagues would have been counting on your support until that point?
Standard fare is to either resign on the day of the vote - or to not resign, rebel and be sacked. At least he resigned the morning of the vote and not by walking through the wrong division without declaring he would.
He’s calling for a second referendum, for goodness’ sake!
He should be expelled from the party. If he has any honour he’ll resign his seat, as he clearly has no loyalty to the manifesto on which he won it.
Did you ever call for the expulsion of the Maastricht rebels?
Seeing as I was 3 at the time, no.
But if you don’t want to appear to be a hypocrite you’ll agree not expelling the Maastricht rebels creates a precedent for not expelling Philip Lee.
I don’t agree at all. We never had a referendum to approve the Maastricht Treaty. If we had, it might have been rejected. It only passed in France thanks to the votes of the dom-toms.
We had a manifesto commitment to ratify the Maastricht treaty.
Did the Maastricht rebels make clear their opposition to the party stance before the election? That is a genuine question.
A serious problem Remain had was that for decades politicians had tried triangulating the EU, lacking the intelligence/courage to either be properly sceptical or actually make the case for the EU. There were often sceptic sounds accompanied by sell-out actions (cf Lisbon and the referendum-that-never-was). But you can't triangulate in a binary choice referendum. There's no soft and fuzzy middle way. It's in, or out.
Absolutely. They also used it as a boogeyman to give a fig-leaf to their own decisions: "No, we have to do this because of the EU" when they were at best gold-plating to excess and at worst being directly dishonest. Then, to their profound surprise, they find out people actually believed them in the past.
The EU didn't help matters by actually doing a bunch of things that were at least similar enough to the sort of things the politicians ascribed to them, increasing the credibility of the politicians' slopey-shoulderedness, and having a constant tin ear to complaints about democracy and pressure to go further.
David Cameron's musings, policy, words and action on immigration were the biggest driver of all. The 330,000 immigration number that came out during the campaign was absolute dynamite to his whole schtick.
I think the most damaging thing about the migration stats was that finally, finally migration from the A8 countries had slowed down but almost immediately the accession controls came off Romania and sent the net migration figures to record levels as loads of unskilled Romanians turned up at Heathrow looking for work.
I think Romania joining the EU and being given full access to free movement was the difference between a narrow leave win and a narrow remain win. Without Romanian immigration, that 330k net migration figure would have been more like 200k and falling, allowing the government to paint a picture of falling net migration, something they were bringing under control even within the EU structures. Add to that the general positive attitude that most Brits have towards Polish people and I think remain would have scored a victory.
It wasn't just numbers. Many working class people disliked the scale of Polish immigration, which undercut their wage bargaining position in the market, but they grudgingly appreciated them as hard working people that largely played by societal rules. The problem with Romanian immigration is that a sizable minority of them were visibly involved in begging, squatting and low level crime.
How does it show honesty and integrity to resign on the day of the vote, when your colleagues would have been counting on your support until that point?
Standard fare is to either resign on the day of the vote - or to not resign, rebel and be sacked. At least he resigned the morning of the vote and not by walking through the wrong division without declaring he would.
He’s calling for a second referendum, for goodness’ sake!
He should be expelled from the party. If he has any honour he’ll resign his seat, as he clearly has no loyalty to the manifesto on which he won it.
Did you ever call for the expulsion of the Maastricht rebels?
Seeing as I was 3 at the time, no.
But if you don’t want to appear to be a hypocrite you’ll agree not expelling the Maastricht rebels creates a precedent for not expelling Philip Lee.
The national party should not be expelling MPs for voting with their principles. They should however answer to their local constituency parties.
Thank you to all who welcomed me. I despise guilt by association whoever does it. It smacks of 'your father was a kulak so you must be one too' style of politics. Yuk.
Yes a fan of Asimov - though not the Second Foundation (Bastards.)
For the record I:
Dont mind pineapple on pizza, i'll eat it but prefer most other alternatives. Fairly meh on Radiohead Voted Tory last election Liked the Tube scene in 'Darkest Hour.' Voted (and campaigned for) Leave as I was living in the UK then. Now an expat living and working in Sri Lanka (so looking forward(?) to England's tour here in October/November.
Banks is giving evidence now to the select committee. You can watch here. They'll come to Russia soon.
He lodged an appeal against the Electoral Commission's decision this morning, which has meant that some matters will be treated as sub judice.
Like the insurance salesman that he is, Banks has some charisma. I haven't watched Cummings, but to judge by the attitude he displays in what he writes he has no charisma whatsoever and may even be hellbent on self-destruction.
There does seem a willingness from the noisier Remainers to attribute losing to every kind of unfairness and cheating, though, rather than accept it as a democratic decision or even that the EU just isn't well-liked here. They're keener to accept Russian interference, evil use of data, widespread racism etc etc.
The evidence of Russian interference is clear
Who changed their voting intention because of Russians ?
Can you name anyone ?
Everyone knows that I was ardently pro-EU till I saw an ad on Facebook.
@TheScreamingEagles - where in the 2017 manifesto was the commitment to take away the executive’s ability to conduct foreign policy?
I don't thinking should be done on an ad hoc basis just because some people ppose the Government line on Brexit but I do think that there should be legislation introduced to strip away most of the remaining Royal Prerogative on foreign affairs.
Banks is giving evidence now to the select committee. You can watch here. They'll come to Russia soon.
He lodged an appeal against the Electoral Commission's decision this morning, which has meant that some matters will be treated as sub judice.
Like the insurance salesman that he is, Banks has some charisma. I haven't watched Cummings, but to judge by the attitude he displays in what he writes he has no charisma whatsoever and may even be hellbent on self-destruction.
Banks has accused the entire committee of being Remainers and says they have got a "vested interest".
He says the guy leading the Remain campaign is working for Putin and has denounced "double standards".
I have to say that at the moment he is being given a very smooth ride.
He's now taking the piss: "Are you the MP who got drunk?"
The author of the opening article is spinning (again!) the poll to make it look as if 70% of Britons are unhappy with Brexit itself. In fact what they are unhappy with is how long the process is all taking, the failure of the government to stand up to the mafiosi in Brussels, EU obstructionism, and all the bickering and talk. They just want us to hurry up and get out.
"You can't negotiate with a tiger when your head is in its mouth" (attributed to Churchill).
Thank you to all who welcomed me. ... Voted (and campaigned for) Leave as I was living in the UK then. Now an expat living and working in Sri Lanka (so looking forward(?) to England's tour here in October/November.
Sri Lanka look to be at a low ebb, judging by their performance against the West Indies.
An England touring party is just the boost they need.
Lee says he wants to potentially revoke article 50, but that he is in favour of leaving. I'm confused, I must say.
His resignation statement makes his position clear. He thinks that there isn't enough time in the Article 50 schedule to allow for a sensible deal that suits both the EU27 and the UK.
Comments
hence the Germans not knowing what papers have been issued is a bit of a problem
any way fun as this is I now have to do some chores, enjoy Kim and Don :-)
It was May who either did not understand what she signed up for, or more likely was completely outmanoeuvred by Barnier who she obviously was daft enough to think was dealing in good faith.
No deal chance increased when May did not walk in February when the EU provided the totally unacceptable backstop text. The moment she tried to work out how to concede on that, she started running out of road.
38,000 Fewer Xenophobes Unemployed
Wage Growth Among Xenophobes Up 2.8%
It seems that Remain supporters are more clear-eyed about the consequences of this than Leave supporters, who are so exultant about having recaptured their precious that they have failed to notice that they sold their souls to do so.
https://www.vwroc.com/forums/topic/11611-automatic-car-washes-closing-down/
Meanwhile, people change jobs more often than they used to and have reduced security, sometimes little more than a self-employed independent contractor would have. This results in a decline in productivity:
a) employees feel less loyal to someone who gives them few/no employment rights or even uses a zero hours contract
b) a person new to a job tends to be less productive until they're familiar with it.
To the end of Trump's term without a nuclear exchange, probably.*
Interesting to note that the US was struggling with terminological confusion ahead of the summit:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/bolton-pompeo-trump-and-kim-all-have-different-ideas-about-what-the-d-in-cvid-stands-for.html?
The US have signed up for denuclearisation of the peninsula - which implies their forces as well (and NK will certainly interpret it as such).
While Trump's worst instincts (i.e. Bolton's instincts) are under control, we all ought to sleep slightly better at night.
The leaders having met does mean that some of their prestige is tied up with the continuation of the process - and that is not the smallest consideration in Trump's case... or the short guy's for that matter.
*For which I'd happily grant him the peace prize....
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Michael_Gove
A serious problem Remain had was that for decades politicians had tried triangulating the EU, lacking the intelligence/courage to either be properly sceptical or actually make the case for the EU. There were often sceptic sounds accompanied by sell-out actions (cf Lisbon and the referendum-that-never-was). But you can't triangulate in a binary choice referendum. There's no soft and fuzzy middle way. It's in, or out.
In this thread you have written that on the topic of non-EU migration that Merkel should Other quotes include:
If anything would've put me off voting Leave it would've been Aaron Banks. The man is a fucking tosser. Dominic Cummings showed his street-smarts by avoiding him like the plague.
By the way, your sneering hatred of British voters definitely outweighs the hatred Britain's rampaging working class xenophobes have for all those foreigners we live next door to.
He’s going to have to be lucky not to get deselected for a stunt like resigning today.
They also used it as a boogeyman to give a fig-leaf to their own decisions: "No, we have to do this because of the EU" when they were at best gold-plating to excess and at worst being directly dishonest.
Then, to their profound surprise, they find out people actually believed them in the past.
The EU didn't help matters by actually doing a bunch of things that were at least similar enough to the sort of things the politicians ascribed to them, increasing the credibility of the politicians' slopey-shoulderedness, and having a constant tin ear to complaints about democracy and pressure to go further.
And now I really must get to work.
The new CD Projekt Red game looks decidedly uninspiring, which is a shame after TW3 was so amazing. I think they will struggle to fill out an almost original concept world. With TW most of the work was done for them by the writer, with this the original writer already seems disappointed.
The 330,000 immigration number that came out during the campaign was absolute dynamite to his whole schtick.
Discuss
https://twitter.com/NickBoles/status/1006468141566881792
EDIT: I'd more expect 2020 though. If games are already scheduled to be launched until just before the 'holiday season' of 2019 then that probably will be the last huzzah of PS4 games.
Discuss !!!!!!!!!
I think Romania joining the EU and being given full access to free movement was the difference between a narrow leave win and a narrow remain win. Without Romanian immigration, that 330k net migration figure would have been more like 200k and falling, allowing the government to paint a picture of falling net migration, something they were bringing under control even within the EU structures. Add to that the general positive attitude that most Brits have towards Polish people and I think remain would have scored a victory.
He should be expelled from the party. If he has any honour he’ll resign his seat, as he clearly has no loyalty to the manifesto on which he won it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGgiGtJk7MA
Mr. Max, interesting view on the PS5. I had heard it was coming soon, but maybe in 20 or 21. I'll hold off on buying, even if the money's there, after the bullshit they pulled with the PS4 Pro.
The Last of Us II looks intriguing.
Mr. L, interrupting someone halfway through a message and then presenting their truncated remark as a full quote is as silly as claiming Caesar made his wife sit on the roof after saying: "Caesar's wife must be above".
Mr. B, true. There does seem a willingness from the noisier Remainers to attribute losing to every kind of unfairness and cheating, though, rather than accept it as a democratic decision or even that the EU just isn't well-liked here. They're keener to accept Russian interference, evil use of data, widespread racism etc etc.
Edited extra bit: Mr. L, 'experts' who are consistently wrong (such as on the single currency) should not have their opinions treated as gospel truth or privileged and insightful.
If he had any integrity he would step down as MP for Bracknell.
He's finished anyway.
Why are leavers so determined to ignore it?
Are they scared acknowledging it would undermine the win?
Can you name anyone ?
Two nil.
They know and have been trained on how the media works and how a particular soundbite will play out and are perfectly aware of what that takeaway will be and what will become the narrative, no matter the context of the other words in the sentence.
Why does it matter that Brexit is going badly, assuming that it is (which itself is a tendentious assumption) ? We didn't vote for any particular kind of Brexit. We voted for Brexit whatever. And Brexit Whatever is what we will get.
What's to complain about?
In fact, MPs are representatives not delegates.
In the matter of Brexit, they did however choose to behave as if they were delegates. I am not sure why they did that, and personally i think it was a shirking of responsibilities, but that is what they did and there is no way back from it now.
Democracy, innit?
All well with you, btw? Horses running OK?
https://twitter.com/nickboles/status/1006468141566881792?s=21
Consequently, having referred a question to the people, the cannot act as representatives on that question because it's already been resolved and the debate had outside of parliament. MPs roles then become closer to that of an executive, in determining how to implement the decision.
All people like Dr Lee are doing is raising the tensions and risking the implosion of Theresa May... For Remainers Theresa May is the gift that keeps on giving... From their point of view its madness to do anything to that puts her position at risk.
Or to put it another way, 'Ask a silly question......'
Yes a fan of Asimov - though not the Second Foundation (Bastards.)
For the record I:
Dont mind pineapple on pizza, i'll eat it but prefer most other alternatives.
Fairly meh on Radiohead
Voted Tory last election
Liked the Tube scene in 'Darkest Hour.'
Voted (and campaigned for) Leave as I was living in the UK then. Now an expat living and working in Sri Lanka (so looking forward(?) to England's tour here in October/November.
He lodged an appeal against the Electoral Commission's decision this morning, which has meant that some matters will be treated as sub judice.
Like the insurance salesman that he is, Banks has some charisma. I haven't watched Cummings, but to judge by the attitude he displays in what he writes he has no charisma whatsoever and may even be hellbent on self-destruction.
The same applies to Lords reform.
He says the guy leading the Remain campaign is working for Putin and has denounced "double standards".
I have to say that at the moment he is being given a very smooth ride.
He's now taking the piss: "Are you the MP who got drunk?"
In fact what they are unhappy with is how long the process is all taking, the failure of the government to stand up to the mafiosi in Brussels, EU obstructionism, and all the bickering and talk. They just want us to hurry up and get out.
"You can't negotiate with a tiger when your head is in its mouth" (attributed to Churchill).
What is this we see, a politician putting country before party and resigning on a matter of principle?
Maybe the world isn't so bad after all.
Congratulations to him.
An England touring party is just the boost they need.
His resignation statement makes his position clear. He thinks that there isn't enough time in the Article 50 schedule to allow for a sensible deal that suits both the EU27 and the UK.
He is absolutely right about that, of course.