"We've heard a lot about the will of the people" and he says "this is the only reason the government can deploy for supporting a Brexit". - Tom Brake, Liberal Democrat exiting the EU spokesperson
Frank Field makes clear he will back the government and vote down the Lords amendments . Graham Stringer and Gavin Strang and Kate Hoey expected to join him from the Labour benches giving an extra net +8 to the Government and DUP side
"We've heard a lot about the will of the people" and he says "this is the only reason the government can deploy for supporting a Brexit". - Tom Brake, Liberal Democrat exiting the EU spokesperson
I laughed out loud when I read what he said, no wonder the Lib Dems are below 10% in the polls
Mr. Borough, that's not really 'buying off' so much as 'capitulating utterly'.
Mr. P, if Newton Dunn's tweet is correct, it's in the EU's interest to not even seek an agreement by the end of November so the Commons can direct the Government to just roll over.
Pity the rest of us now have no idea what the government's position is.
To be fair, we don't know what the Opposition's or Lords' position is either. It seems to be something along the lines of a meaningful vote on a meaningless proposition, but who knows?
No chance in a million years they will have a deal by November. So Parliament will decide.
By then the momentum behind a second referendum will be very strong.
A winter of Brexit discontent, followed by a referendum to consign it to history, and then we'll vote in the European elections to send Farage packing.
No chance in a million years they will have a deal by November. So Parliament will decide.
By then the momentum behind a second referendum will be very strong.
A winter of Brexit discontent, followed by a referendum to consign it to history, and then we'll vote in the European elections to send Farage packing.
(However I still think May will preempt this and be the one to decide to go to the country with the deal versus Remain.)
No chance in a million years they will have a deal by November. So Parliament will decide.
By then the momentum behind a second referendum will be very strong.
A winter of Brexit discontent, followed by a referendum to consign it to history, and then we'll vote in the European elections to send Farage packing.
A winter of Brexit Discontent would only occur if Parliament flung back the Brexit vote in Leave voters faces
No chance in a million years they will have a deal by November. So Parliament will decide.
By then the momentum behind a second referendum will be very strong.
A winter of Brexit discontent, followed by a referendum to consign it to history, and then we'll vote in the European elections to send Farage packing.
You really really don't understand the electorate do you.
Mr. Borough, that's not really 'buying off' so much as 'capitulating utterly'.
Mr. P, if Newton Dunn's tweet is correct, it's in the EU's interest to not even seek an agreement by the end of November so the Commons can direct the Government to just roll over.
So after November what happens ? Barnier arrives and starts negotiating with 643 MPs in the commons ?
The European Parliament negotiates directly with Westminster, long boozy weekends in Brussels, Strasbourg and Central London in 5* hotels at taxpayer expense to ensure a deal?
No chance in a million years they will have a deal by November. So Parliament will decide.
By then the momentum behind a second referendum will be very strong.
A winter of Brexit discontent, followed by a referendum to consign it to history, and then we'll vote in the European elections to send Farage packing.
(However I still think May will preempt this and be the one to decide to go to the country with the deal versus Remain.)
She will never get the chance to do that. If the option of Remain did appear she would be gone long before she could call a vote.
No chance in a million years they will have a deal by November. So Parliament will decide.
By then the momentum behind a second referendum will be very strong.
A winter of Brexit discontent, followed by a referendum to consign it to history, and then we'll vote in the European elections to send Farage packing.
You really really don't understand the electorate do you.
Perhaps 500 words from you explaining the 2001 General Election result would help me understand.
Mr. Borough, that's not really 'buying off' so much as 'capitulating utterly'.
Mr. P, if Newton Dunn's tweet is correct, it's in the EU's interest to not even seek an agreement by the end of November so the Commons can direct the Government to just roll over.
Marvellous.
I don't think that's right. It's probably easier for the EU to negotiate with the PM and her divided cabinet then it would be to negotiate with a divided House of Commons. And I think the EU want this settled and dealt with so that they can get on with creating a banking and fiscal union.
So what this does is to establish a hard deadline for the EU. Give us a deal we can agree to by the end of November, or you have to try and negotiate with >600 MPs. (And good luck doing that)
No chance in a million years they will have a deal by November. So Parliament will decide.
By then the momentum behind a second referendum will be very strong.
A winter of Brexit discontent, followed by a referendum to consign it to history, and then we'll vote in the European elections to send Farage packing.
You really really don't understand the electorate do you.
Perhaps 500 words from you explaining the 2001 General Election result would help me understand.
Parliament can't negotiate a treaty - practically, constitutionally, it is impossible. They don't have the powers or the means. Means that Govt. are assured of a deal by November.
Frank Field makes clear he will back the government and vote down the Lords amendments . Graham Stringer and Gavin Strang and Kate Hoey expected to join him from the Labour benches giving an extra net +8 to the Government and DUP side
Parliament can't negotiate a treaty - practically, constitutionally, it is impossible. They don't have the powers or the means. Means that Govt. are assured of a deal by November.
Frank Field makes clear he will back the government and vote down the Lords amendments . Graham Stringer and Gavin Strang and Kate Hoey expected to join him from the Labour benches giving an extra net +8 to the Government and DUP side
Gavin Strang retired from the Commons years ago!
Apologies, meant Gareth Snell the new Stoke Central MP
Give them a hard deadline and you might get progress in the last twenty four hours.
Giving powers to parliament will only result in snail pace if any progress. The only hope Remainers have is to bore everyone for at least another three years and hope for a change of mind of the electorate sufficient to cover up their dismissal of a democratic result.
The LDs still wouldn't have an alibi, but they could always go back to being just the Liberal party.
Frank Field makes clear he will back the government and vote down the Lords amendments . Graham Stringer and Gavin Strang and Kate Hoey expected to join him from the Labour benches giving an extra net +8 to the Government and DUP side
Gavin Strang retired from the Commons years ago!
Apologies, meant Gareth Snell the new Stoke MP
I think he is a Remainer. Perhaps you mean Graham Stringer?
Parliament can't negotiate a treaty - practically, constitutionally, it is impossible. They don't have the powers or the means.
Do the EU understand that though? I reckon the EU will now just dig there heels in (even more) thinking that this will be took out of the governments hands in November...
That is a big concession by the Government - if it really really comes to it, I think the only thing parliament could usefully do would be to vote for EEA membership (EDIT - or ask for an article 50 extension as TSE says, but I think the EU would say no and force us into EEA) and this concession stops the Government from preventing this being voted on. So Labour have months to continue their current drift to soft Brexit. And probably topple Theresa May in the process.
Not sure this will change much from the EU's perspective - I don't buy this idea that they will suddenly play hardball with us. They've been doing that for months, and flit between bemused and frustrated that we can't even present our position on key issues that should have been dealt with ahead of the referendum let alone the A50 trigger. Hard to imagine that anything today changes their thinking, that they have us in a vice-like grip.
What really changes today, is that the Government get to blame parliament, and that might actually be quite useful for them.
How are the EU going to cover the £39Bn hole in their accounts if no deal ?
Tariffs on imports from the UK?
We only export £150bn worth of goods to the EU, the average tariff rate is about 3% for the EU and that gets charged to EU companies doing the importing, not the UK company doing the exporting.
Parliament can't negotiate a treaty - practically, constitutionally, it is impossible. They don't have the powers or the means.
Do the EU understand that though? I reckon the EU will now just dig there heels in (even more) thinking that this will be took out of the governments hands in November...
And into the hands of Rees-Mogg etc, no chance of that, I think the chances of a deal being done are so much higher now.
Chances of No Deal Brexit have just dropped sharply. If Parliament is going to get control of negotiations if no deal has been done by the end of November, then the majority in Parliament who favour a deal is going to get one of one form or another.
Frank Field makes clear he will back the government and vote down the Lords amendments . Graham Stringer and Gavin Strang and Kate Hoey expected to join him from the Labour benches giving an extra net +8 to the Government and DUP side
Gavin Strang retired from the Commons years ago!
Apologies, meant Gareth Snell the new Stoke MP
I think he is a Remainer. Perhaps you mean Graham Stringer?
Stringer and Snell will vote with the Government apparently is the latest
I know he isn't liked by the Brexiteers, but having Bercow as the speaker is effectively another vote for the Gov't on european matters.
Sort of though if he wasn't Speaker anymore then his first action after resigning is probably taking the Chiltern Hundreds anyway at which point the resulting by-election cancels that out.
Looks like we will get EEA which will solve all kinds of problems, just about unite the country (not to say PB), avoid any issues in Ireland (where the compromise of EEA is far better and likelier than any kind of border fudge) and we can then move on.
Poorer, obvs, but free of much of the laws of the EU so many Leavers will be happy as they don't seem overly worried about the well being of their fellow Leavers for whom a vote to Leave was one to make themselves better off but hey, no biggie.
Parliament can't negotiate a treaty - practically, constitutionally, it is impossible. They don't have the powers or the means. Means that Govt. are assured of a deal by November.
I don't think you are right there. The house can resolve itself into a committee and do just about anything.
"I think the chances of a deal being done are so much higher now."
You could be right. It will concentrate the minds of the negotiators. The alternative is several years of uncertainty which no one wants.
I think it is a very clever move, the EU will be desperate for a deal now, they will not want the alternative.
Will they? Parliament is full to the brim with the worst kind of remainer, the longer they drag it out the more chance that Parliament will take any kind of shite deal. The EU just got a huge win, our MPs are working to strengthen the hand of our enemy. It's absolutely disgraceful.
Chances of No Deal Brexit have just dropped sharply. If Parliament is going to get control of negotiations if no deal has been done by the end of November, then the majority in Parliament who favour a deal is going to get one of one form or another.
EU have said that deal will have to be done by end of October to allow time to get them all to agree and vote in EU Parliament. Government is handing Parliament the cliff edge.
"I think the chances of a deal being done are so much higher now."
You could be right. It will concentrate the minds of the negotiators. The alternative is several years of uncertainty which no one wants.
I think it is a very clever move, the EU will be desperate for a deal now, they will not want the alternative.
Will they? Parliament is full to the brim with the worst kind of remainer, the longer they drag it out the more chance that Parliament will take any kind of shite deal. The EU just got a huge win, our MPs are working to strengthen the hand of our enemy. It's absolutely disgraceful.
A general election in November might solve a lot of problems
Looks like we will get EEA which will solve all kinds of problems, just about unite the country (not to say PB), avoid any issues in Ireland (where the compromise of EEA is far better and likelier than any kind of border fudge) and we can then move on.
Poorer, obvs, but free of much of the laws of the EU so many Leavers will be happy as they don't seem overly worried about the well being of their fellow Leavers for whom a vote to Leave was one to make themselves better off but hey, no biggie.
Just as long as no one mentions immigration.
No we won't as both May and Corbyn still oppose EEA
I suspect Keir Starmer will agree with you, but the chances of everyone forgetting about the 'i' word are approximately nil.
I'm sure they'll call it something obfuscating.
Who knows, they might even just use the existing controls available to any EU member, tell the general public that the country has left, and carry on as full EU members.
"I think the chances of a deal being done are so much higher now."
You could be right. It will concentrate the minds of the negotiators. The alternative is several years of uncertainty which no one wants.
I think it is a very clever move, the EU will be desperate for a deal now, they will not want the alternative.
Will they? Parliament is full to the brim with the worst kind of remainer, the longer they drag it out the more chance that Parliament will take any kind of shite deal. The EU just got a huge win, our MPs are working to strengthen the hand of our enemy. It's absolutely disgraceful.
There is no way that will happen, the press coverage of any MP doing what they can to block Brexit will just be too awful for any MP to risk it. I voted Remain but democracy must prevail.
Chances of No Deal Brexit have just dropped sharply. If Parliament is going to get control of negotiations if no deal has been done by the end of November, then the majority in Parliament who favour a deal is going to get one of one form or another.
EU have said that deal will have to be done by end of October to allow time to get them all to agree and vote in EU Parliament. Government is handing Parliament the cliff edge.
We thought we had to next March. Now we only have till this October.
Wow - almost certainly there will be no deal. Election early in the new year?
Which would solve zilch and on current polling produce almost exactly the same composition in the Commons
... whereas a new referendum would.
Solve zilch too, the last gold Standard Survation had it Leave 50% Remain 50%.
Coin toss to settle it?
Or a second civil war? Remainers Cavaliers and Brexiteers Roundheads?
Probably wrong way around; Cavaliers became the Conservatives, and more of those are Brexiters.
The Tory or Whig Parties were not founded until after the Civil War and the poshest Tories were more likely to be Remainers while working and lower middle class Labour voters were more likely to be Leavers
Parliament can't negotiate a treaty - practically, constitutionally, it is impossible. They don't have the powers or the means. Means that Govt. are assured of a deal by November.
I don't think you are right there. The house can resolve itself into a committee and do just about anything.
It wouldn’t have control over departments of government. It wouldn’t be able to speak on behalf of the crown. Therefore it is unable to negotiate with a foreign power.
Looks like we will get EEA which will solve all kinds of problems, just about unite the country (not to say PB), avoid any issues in Ireland (where the compromise of EEA is far better and likelier than any kind of border fudge) and we can then move on.
Poorer, obvs, but free of much of the laws of the EU so many Leavers will be happy as they don't seem overly worried about the well being of their fellow Leavers for whom a vote to Leave was one to make themselves better off but hey, no biggie.
Just as long as no one mentions immigration.
No we won't as both May and Corbyn still oppose EEA
We are in a very strange place now, @HYUFD so I would hesitate to rule anything out categorically. Especially, as has been demonstrated today, as parliament is not particularly minded to listen to their leaders on either side.
Wow - almost certainly there will be no deal. Election early in the new year?
Which would solve zilch and on current polling produce almost exactly the same composition in the Commons
... whereas a new referendum would.
Solve zilch too, the last gold Standard Survation had it Leave 50% Remain 50%.
Coin toss to settle it?
Or a second civil war? Remainers Cavaliers and Brexiteers Roundheads?
Probably wrong way around; Cavaliers became the Conservatives, and more of those are Brexiters.
The Tory or Whig Parties were not founded until after the Civil War and the poshest Tories were more likely to be Remainers while working and lower middle class Labour voters were more likely to be Leavers
Their origins were much older. And it’s the irreconcialability which is important.
Looks like we will get EEA which will solve all kinds of problems, just about unite the country (not to say PB), avoid any issues in Ireland (where the compromise of EEA is far better and likelier than any kind of border fudge) and we can then move on.
Poorer, obvs, but free of much of the laws of the EU so many Leavers will be happy as they don't seem overly worried about the well being of their fellow Leavers for whom a vote to Leave was one to make themselves better off but hey, no biggie.
Just as long as no one mentions immigration.
No we won't as both May and Corbyn still oppose EEA
We are in a very strange place now, @HYUFD so I would hesitate to rule anything out categorically. Especially, as has been demonstrated today, as parliament is not particularly minded to listen to their leaders on either side.
"I think the chances of a deal being done are so much higher now."
You could be right. It will concentrate the minds of the negotiators. The alternative is several years of uncertainty which no one wants.
I think it is a very clever move, the EU will be desperate for a deal now, they will not want the alternative.
Will they? Parliament is full to the brim with the worst kind of remainer, the longer they drag it out the more chance that Parliament will take any kind of shite deal. The EU just got a huge win, our MPs are working to strengthen the hand of our enemy. It's absolutely disgraceful.
There is no way that will happen, the press coverage of any MP doing what they can to block Brexit will just be too awful for any MP to risk it.
Comments
"We've heard a lot about the will of the people" and he says "this is the only reason the government can deploy for supporting a Brexit". - Tom Brake, Liberal Democrat exiting the EU spokesperson
Mr. P, if Newton Dunn's tweet is correct, it's in the EU's interest to not even seek an agreement by the end of November so the Commons can direct the Government to just roll over.
Marvellous.
I reckon this means we will ask for an extension of Article 50.
I was so wrong about Theresa, she’s awesome.
A winter of Brexit discontent, followed by a referendum to consign it to history, and then we'll vote in the European elections to send Farage packing.
You have to hand it to her.
Barnier arrives and starts negotiating with 643 MPs in the commons ?
The EU will just spend all autumn drinking vintage champagne and procrastinating.
(Do your own punchline...)
Otherwise it looks like DD goes on a long winter holiday and Hilary Benn is in charge of negotiations.
So what this does is to establish a hard deadline for the EU. Give us a deal we can agree to by the end of November, or you have to try and negotiate with >600 MPs. (And good luck doing that)
*google*
yes...yes that is exactly what I meant!
We import more than we export to the EU, so they'll lose that game.
Giving powers to parliament will only result in snail pace if any progress. The only hope Remainers have is to bore everyone for at least another three years and hope for a change of mind of the electorate sufficient to cover up their dismissal of a democratic result.
The LDs still wouldn't have an alibi, but they could always go back to being just the Liberal party.
Not sure this will change much from the EU's perspective - I don't buy this idea that they will suddenly play hardball with us. They've been doing that for months, and flit between bemused and frustrated that we can't even present our position on key issues that should have been dealt with ahead of the referendum let alone the A50 trigger. Hard to imagine that anything today changes their thinking, that they have us in a vice-like grip.
What really changes today, is that the Government get to blame parliament, and that might actually be quite useful for them.
https://twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1006562235710394368
https://mobile.twitter.com/BrexitBin/status/1006525448996687872
"I think the chances of a deal being done are so much higher now."
You could be right. It will concentrate the minds of the negotiators. The alternative is several years of uncertainty which no one wants.
Poorer, obvs, but free of much of the laws of the EU so many Leavers will be happy as they don't seem overly worried about the well being of their fellow Leavers for whom a vote to Leave was one to make themselves better off but hey, no biggie.
Just as long as no one mentions immigration.Anti-terrorist police are surrounding the Mixicom computer store in the French capital's 10th arrondissement, close to the Gare du Nord Eurostar hub.
Probably wrong way around; Cavaliers became the Conservatives, and more of those are Brexiters.
Government is handing Parliament the cliff edge.
I suspect Keir Starmer will agree with you, but the chances of everyone forgetting about the 'i' word are approximately nil.
Who knows, they might even just use the existing controls available to any EU member, tell the general public that the country has left, and carry on as full EU members.
No one would notice.
Jokes were funny too!
We thought we had to next March. Now we only have till this October.
Great. Just great.
Is it clear precisely what Govt has agreed to re 30 November cut-off - I doubt Govt has gone further than what Grieve was proposing.