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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    On top of the staff allegations and the SNP furore, is there a real chance that we'll have a new Speaker before the recess?
    No.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    Now, now, she can't very well travel in lumpenclass can she?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401
    Anazina said:

    Scott_P said:
    Does anyone know if that means all three of Canada, USA and Mexico automatically qualify?
    I believe all three qualify because the World Cup will now feature 48 teams.
    That's bloody stupid number. 32 is more than enough.
    That's easy for you to say when you support a major footballing nation. Millions of avid fans worldwide have almost no chance of seeing their country at a World Cup when it is limited to 32 places. The key, as @tlg86 suggests downthread, is coming up with a better format.
    If Iceland can make it, off a population of a few hundred thousand, just about any team should be able to.

    In any case, the 'all must have prizes' is a stupid mentality. Who wants to watch matches between mediocre sides? Expanding the number of teams just makes for *fewer* clashes between the top nations because most will only happen now in the knock-out phases. The World Cup should be a showcase for the sport's best.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    MaxPB said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    Now, now, she can't very well travel in lumpenclass can she?
    She is, read the full article.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    On top of the staff allegations and the SNP furore, is there a real chance that we'll have a new Speaker before the recess?
    Will it be Jacob Rees-Mogg?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    You absolute thick balloon , there is only one class of travel
    You really are thick as pig crap Malcolm.

    All but one of these trips was a Business UK ticket, with the other, a £108 economy seat flying from the city’s Stansted Airport to Glasgow Airport.
    I suggest you too Mr Eagles read the article more fully.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    brendan16 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Sandpit, ah, right, sorry. And thanks.

    Abu Dhabi is that lovely place where we race F1 cars in November. Qatar is that horrible place where the World Cup will be in 2022, if they manage to finish building the stadia and infrastructure.
    Qatar is that lovely place which still has the death penalty in place for Muslim gay men and anyone who has sex outside marriage.

    Abu Dhabi just locks them up for up to 14 years.

    Isn't it shocking that a country which has capital punishment for having sexual relations with the wrong person - or just the suspicion of it - is hosting the football World Cup. And yet there is little comment about it.

    Or is it just we are happy to turn a blind eye in some countries while expressing outrage when it happens in others.
    No, it's more an inability to concentrate on more than one thing at a time. I'm sure there'll be plenty of comment on Qatar as a host over the next four years.

    I very much hope that they do get to keep the World Cup. It'll do no end of good for the world to see how poor a spectacle it'll be, with the lack of fans.
    I wish there was a way to bet on England being the World Cup hosts in 2022. Qatar just isn’t going to be ready and no-one is going to want to go there to watch.

    As is clear from the parallel discussion on this thread, England is one of very few places that could host an event as big as the WC at no notice.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Scott_P said:
    Does anyone know if that means all three of Canada, USA and Mexico automatically qualify?
    I believe all three qualify because the World Cup will now feature 48 teams.
    That's bloody stupid number. 32 is more than enough.
    That's easy for you to say when you support a major footballing nation. Millions of avid fans worldwide have almost no chance of seeing their country at a World Cup when it is limited to 32 places. The key, as @tlg86 suggests downthread, is coming up with a better format.
    If Iceland can make it, off a population of a few hundred thousand, just about any team should be able to.

    In any case, the 'all must have prizes' is a stupid mentality. Who wants to watch matches between mediocre sides? Expanding the number of teams just makes for *fewer* clashes between the top nations because most will only happen now in the knock-out phases. The World Cup should be a showcase for the sport's best.
    Who is suggesting all must win prizes? There will remain one winner. The advance of the game throughout the world, and in the increase in quality among so-called smaller nations, means expansion over time is both natural and wise. The Iceland example suits my argument as much as it suits yours – smaller nations are improving. The tournament should not be a closed shop.

    I think 48 teams will remain for several decades as it accounts for around a quarter of all the nations in the world, which is a fair split. But the 2026 format is problematic – two teams qualifying from groups of three is a near-nonsense.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    edited June 2018
    If quality of experience is what the punters need, and we're allowed to include stadia in the low 30ks then the Ricoh arena (Coventry City/Wasps) is about as good as you'll get.
    Even has attached casinos for the "hospitality" crowd after the match, for all our woes on the pitch our stadium is very good.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Sandpit, ah, right, sorry. And thanks.

    Abu Dhabi is that lovely place where we race F1 cars in November. Qatar is that horrible place where the World Cup will be in 2022, if they manage to finish building the stadia and infrastructure.
    Qatar is that lovely place which still has the death penalty in place for Muslim gay men and anyone who has sex outside marriage.

    Abu Dhabi just locks them up for up to 14 years.

    Isn't it shocking that a country which has capital punishment for having sexual relations with the wrong person - or just the suspicion of it - is hosting the football World Cup. And yet there is little comment about it.

    Or is it just we are happy to turn a blind eye in some countries while expressing outrage when it happens in others.
    No, it's more an inability to concentrate on more than one thing at a time. I'm sure there'll be plenty of comment on Qatar as a host over the next four years.

    I very much hope that they do get to keep the World Cup. It'll do no end of good for the world to see how poor a spectacle it'll be, with the lack of fans.
    I wish there was a way to bet on England being the World Cup hosts in 2022. Qatar just isn’t going to be ready and no-one is going to want to go there to watch.
    There are some factors as to why it may not be there but not being ready wouldn't be the top one - there are always more slaves to help build a pyramid.


  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Pulpstar said:

    48 teams !

    How many slots will Europe get.

    Not as many as it deserves.

    This was the proposal - 0.5 means a play off.

    Europe 16 teams (13 currently); Africa 9 (5); Asia 8.5 (4.5), South America 6 (4.5), Concacaf 6.5 (3.5), Oceania 1 (0.5), Host nation 1 (1).

    Have a look at what 6 South American teams qualifying means in a region with 10 nations, 7 of which are any cop. Or have a look at what the 7th best CONCACAF side is (Guatemala, Haiti or Canada from qualifying, El Salvador by ranking).

    So, how do you expand the world cup but keep the final stages nice and compact.

    Dear FIFA,

    consider the following:

    15 groups of 4, play each other once either home or away (two teams in the group will play at home twice - but that's not a fatal flaw, give it to the lowest ranked teams), 15 group winners go through to join the hosts in a 16 team finals. The smaller final stage means more countries could host it, and its more intense as you've got 16 of the very best international teams in the world there.

    An additional perk is that the final stage is not so big so its less of a financial bind, and more countries could host it.

    The international qualifying gives smaller teams a chance to qualify and play on a bigger stage. They get three games guaranteed.

    In terms of the pots, lets' pick a 2030 world cup, hosted nostalgically in Uruguay.

    15 top seeds (11 UEFA, 4 CONMEBOL) - Pot A
    15 next best European countries (on current standings, that's 25 UEFA countries in total, on current standings Scotland as the weakest country) - Pot B
    15 from Africa (9 countries), rest of South America (5 countries due to Uruguay), Oceania (1 team)- Pot C
    15 from Asia (7 countries), North America (8 countries) - Pot D

    ... with smaller regional qualifying tournaments to get to this stage.

    This will run the year before the tournament, but preferably the summer before. One game a month.

    FOOTBALL.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697
    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    You absolute thick balloon

    Afternoon Malc!

    You tell him. :D
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    edited June 2018
    dixiedean said:

    Tbf to the SNP, which is not my natural inclination, 15 mins to debate devolved powers does seem less than optimal.

    Yes I agree..

    When I heard that , 15 mins , seems like they are taking the piss out of Scotland.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,981
    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    You absolute thick balloon , there is only one class of travel
    You really are thick as pig crap Malcolm.

    All but one of these trips was a Business UK ticket, with the other, a £108 economy seat flying from the city’s Stansted Airport to Glasgow Airport.
    I suggest you too Mr Eagles read the article more fully.
    Malcolm said there was only one class of travel, I've just shown there's more than one of travelling back to Scotland for Ms Black.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    edited June 2018

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    You absolute thick balloon , there is only one class of travel
    You really are thick as pig crap Malcolm.

    All but one of these trips was a Business UK ticket, with the other, a £108 economy seat flying from the city’s Stansted Airport to Glasgow Airport.
    I suggest you too Mr Eagles read the article more fully.
    Malcolm said there was only one class of travel, I've just shown there's more than one of travelling back to Scotland for Ms Black.
    She told the Paisley Daily Express: “It appears to me that the name of the ticket has given the impression that we are travelling in a different class, or in better seats in a separate area of the plane, which simply is not the case at all.

    “The Business UK ticket means that we have flexible travelling, which allows us to change flight times at the last minute at no extra cost, which I have had to do many times since being elected.

    ‘’It is very much like an open return on a train.”
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    On top of the staff allegations and the SNP furore, is there a real chance that we'll have a new Speaker before the recess?
    Hope not. He seemed to handle it very well.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,724

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Scott_P said:
    Does anyone know if that means all three of Canada, USA and Mexico automatically qualify?
    I believe all three qualify because the World Cup will now feature 48 teams.
    That's bloody stupid number. 32 is more than enough.
    That's easy for you to say when you support a major footballing nation. Millions of avid fans worldwide have almost no chance of seeing their country at a World Cup when it is limited to 32 places. The key, as @tlg86 suggests downthread, is coming up with a better format.
    We might as well scrap qualifying then, just have everybody go and have a better format when there.

    FIFA aren't doing it for any other reason than to make more money.
    :D

    Even entire continents would struggle to schedule fixtures between 211 teams in a six week period!!
    You could just do a pre-qualifying tournament for smaller nations like the cricket world cup used to do.
    The cricket world cup still does.
    It’s not a good example, though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited June 2018
    TOPPING said:

    On top of the staff allegations and the SNP furore, is there a real chance that we'll have a new Speaker before the recess?
    Hope not. He seemed to handle it very well.
    Reads like it was pure theatrics. Speakers have to make calls on procedure, and even if they are wrong their ruling is final I should think, at least for the purposes of continuing on with business. Being angry at limited debate the day before seems justified though, but toys out of the pram gestures aren't impressive either, though I guess they had to get their anger at the debate issue into the news more widely somehow, and drama does that.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,981
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    You absolute thick balloon , there is only one class of travel
    You really are thick as pig crap Malcolm.

    All but one of these trips was a Business UK ticket, with the other, a £108 economy seat flying from the city’s Stansted Airport to Glasgow Airport.
    I suggest you too Mr Eagles read the article more fully.
    Malcolm said there was only one class of travel, I've just shown there's more than one of travelling back to Scotland for Ms Black.
    She told the Paisley Daily Express: “It appears to me that the name of the ticket has given the impression that we are travelling in a different class, or in better seats in a separate area of the plane, which simply is not the case at all.

    “The Business UK ticket means that we have flexible travelling, which allows us to change flight times at the last minute at no extra cost, which I have had to do many times since being elected.

    ‘’It is very much like an open return on a train.”
    Open return tickets don't give you the option of sitting in first class.

    You either have to buy a first class open or pay for an upgrade.

    I do concede the latter does confuse many people like the time most of the media were surprised when George Osbrone sat in first class with an open standard ticket.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    You absolute thick balloon , there is only one class of travel
    You really are thick as pig crap Malcolm.

    All but one of these trips was a Business UK ticket, with the other, a £108 economy seat flying from the city’s Stansted Airport to Glasgow Airport.
    I suggest you too Mr Eagles read the article more fully.
    Malcolm said there was only one class of travel, I've just shown there's more than one of travelling back to Scotland for Ms Black.
    She told the Paisley Daily Express: “It appears to me that the name of the ticket has given the impression that we are travelling in a different class, or in better seats in a separate area of the plane, which simply is not the case at all.

    “The Business UK ticket means that we have flexible travelling, which allows us to change flight times at the last minute at no extra cost, which I have had to do many times since being elected.

    ‘’It is very much like an open return on a train.”
    So she picked the more expensive option for her own convenience?
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Fracking is threatening the Tory party's core vote.
    Five grandparents, aged 63-82, are taking part in an anti-fracking protest at the Department of Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy in central London.

    They used chains and arm tubes to lock themselves together in the lobby at about 10am this morning.

    The protest calls on the government not to grant fracking consent to Cuadrilla for its Preston New Road shale gas site in Lancashire.

    The nanas and granpas united will never be defeated
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    edited June 2018

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    You absolute thick balloon , there is only one class of travel
    You really are thick as pig crap Malcolm.

    All but one of these trips was a Business UK ticket, with the other, a £108 economy seat flying from the city’s Stansted Airport to Glasgow Airport.
    I suggest you too Mr Eagles read the article more fully.
    Malcolm said there was only one class of travel, I've just shown there's more than one of travelling back to Scotland for Ms Black.
    She told the Paisley Daily Express: “It appears to me that the name of the ticket has given the impression that we are travelling in a different class, or in better seats in a separate area of the plane, which simply is not the case at all.

    “The Business UK ticket means that we have flexible travelling, which allows us to change flight times at the last minute at no extra cost, which I have had to do many times since being elected.

    ‘’It is very much like an open return on a train.”
    Open return tickets don't give you the option of sitting in first class.

    You either have to buy a first class open or pay for an upgrade.

    I do concede the latter does confuse many people like the time most of the media were surprised when George Osbrone sat in first class with an open standard ticket.
    She's travelling in economy - the tickets are labelled up as "Business UK". It is not business class, rather flexible economy class.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    On top of the staff allegations and the SNP furore, is there a real chance that we'll have a new Speaker before the recess?
    Hope not. He seemed to handle it very well.
    Reads like it was pure theatrics. Speakers have to make calls on procedure, and even if they are wrong their ruling is final I should think, at least for the purposes of continuing on with business. Being angry at limited debate the day before seems justified though, but toys out of the pram gestures aren't impressive either, though I guess they had to get their anger at the debate issue into the news more widely somehow, and drama does that.
    Yep agree and agree.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    MaxPB said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    Now, now, she can't very well travel in lumpenclass can she?
    Maybe lumpen class was stuffed full of turnips and she didn't want to blend in.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    You absolute thick balloon , there is only one class of travel
    You really are thick as pig crap Malcolm.

    All but one of these trips was a Business UK ticket, with the other, a £108 economy seat flying from the city’s Stansted Airport to Glasgow Airport.
    I suggest you too Mr Eagles read the article more fully.
    Malcolm said there was only one class of travel, I've just shown there's more than one of travelling back to Scotland for Ms Black.
    She told the Paisley Daily Express: “It appears to me that the name of the ticket has given the impression that we are travelling in a different class, or in better seats in a separate area of the plane, which simply is not the case at all.

    “The Business UK ticket means that we have flexible travelling, which allows us to change flight times at the last minute at no extra cost, which I have had to do many times since being elected.

    ‘’It is very much like an open return on a train.”
    Open return tickets don't give you the option of sitting in first class.

    You either have to buy a first class open or pay for an upgrade.

    I do concede the latter does confuse many people like the time most of the media were surprised when George Osbrone sat in first class with an open standard ticket.
    She's travelling in economy - the tickets are labelled up as "Business UK". It is not business class, rather flexible economy class.
    In any case, WTF cares?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    You absolute thick balloon , there is only one class of travel
    You really are thick as pig crap Malcolm.

    All but one of these trips was a Business UK ticket, with the other, a £108 economy seat flying from the city’s Stansted Airport to Glasgow Airport.
    I suggest you too Mr Eagles read the article more fully.
    Malcolm said there was only one class of travel, I've just shown there's more than one of travelling back to Scotland for Ms Black.
    She told the Paisley Daily Express: “It appears to me that the name of the ticket has given the impression that we are travelling in a different class, or in better seats in a separate area of the plane, which simply is not the case at all.

    “The Business UK ticket means that we have flexible travelling, which allows us to change flight times at the last minute at no extra cost, which I have had to do many times since being elected.

    ‘’It is very much like an open return on a train.”
    So she picked the more expensive option for her own convenience?
    Parliamentary business means she isn't quite sure when she may get out of early or be required to change her plans in London. These tickets give the flexibility to do so.
    They certainly aren't 'business class' which was the thrust of yours and Eagles argument against Malc, Mhairi and now myself.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    TGOHF said:

    Sandpit said:

    brendan16 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Sandpit, ah, right, sorry. And thanks.

    Abu Dhabi is that lovely place where we race F1 cars in November. Qatar is that horrible place where the World Cup will be in 2022, if they manage to finish building the stadia and infrastructure.
    Qatar is that lovely place which still has the death penalty in place for Muslim gay men and anyone who has sex outside marriage.

    Abu Dhabi just locks them up for up to 14 years.

    Isn't it shocking that a country which has capital punishment for having sexual relations with the wrong person - or just the suspicion of it - is hosting the football World Cup. And yet there is little comment about it.

    Or is it just we are happy to turn a blind eye in some countries while expressing outrage when it happens in others.
    No, it's more an inability to concentrate on more than one thing at a time. I'm sure there'll be plenty of comment on Qatar as a host over the next four years.

    I very much hope that they do get to keep the World Cup. It'll do no end of good for the world to see how poor a spectacle it'll be, with the lack of fans.
    I wish there was a way to bet on England being the World Cup hosts in 2022. Qatar just isn’t going to be ready and no-one is going to want to go there to watch.
    There are some factors as to why it may not be there but not being ready wouldn't be the top one - there are always more slaves to help build a pyramid.
    Right now they’re struggling not only to find slaves, but also to find experienced construction managers in the face of heavy sanctions from their Gulf neighbours.

    If they’re lucky they might get most of the stadia built in some scaled-down form, but there won’t be enough hotels and training grounds for even the teams and officials - let alone any fans who want to go there.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    You absolute thick balloon , there is only one class of travel
    You really are thick as pig crap Malcolm.

    All but one of these trips was a Business UK ticket, with the other, a £108 economy seat flying from the city’s Stansted Airport to Glasgow Airport.
    I suggest you too Mr Eagles read the article more fully.
    Malcolm said there was only one class of travel, I've just shown there's more than one of travelling back to Scotland for Ms Black.
    She told the Paisley Daily Express: “It appears to me that the name of the ticket has given the impression that we are travelling in a different class, or in better seats in a separate area of the plane, which simply is not the case at all.

    “The Business UK ticket means that we have flexible travelling, which allows us to change flight times at the last minute at no extra cost, which I have had to do many times since being elected.

    ‘’It is very much like an open return on a train.”
    So she picked the more expensive option for her own convenience?
    She is an MP and I'm sure her travel schedule is more complicated than ours. It would cost the taxpayer an awful lot more if she bought inflexible tickets and then had to buy new ones because they couldn't be changed. Much better value to pay slightly more up front and then have the flexibility to change if she needs to.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    OT I'm now seeing adverts for frock-sellers myTheresa.com which I assume is because this site names the PM so often.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    You absolute thick balloon , there is only one class of travel
    You really are thick as pig crap Malcolm.

    All but one of these trips was a Business UK ticket, with the other, a £108 economy seat flying from the city’s Stansted Airport to Glasgow Airport.
    I suggest you too Mr Eagles read the article more fully.
    Malcolm said there was only one class of travel, I've just shown there's more than one of travelling back to Scotland for Ms Black.
    She told the Paisley Daily Express: “It appears to me that the name of the ticket has given the impression that we are travelling in a different class, or in better seats in a separate area of the plane, which simply is not the case at all.

    “The Business UK ticket means that we have flexible travelling, which allows us to change flight times at the last minute at no extra cost, which I have had to do many times since being elected.

    ‘’It is very much like an open return on a train.”
    So she picked the more expensive option for her own convenience?
    If she has to cancel enough, then it will be cheaper to get the flexible ticket.

    For me this is the kind of stupid story that newspapers love where politicians can't win. If she doesn't buy the flexible tickets and then has to cancel flights, the papers will report that as a waste of money also.

  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Bercow has banned Blackford from the Palace of Westminster for the rest of the day.

    Well done!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    You absolute thick balloon , there is only one class of travel
    You really are thick as pig crap Malcolm.

    All but one of these trips was a Business UK ticket, with the other, a £108 economy seat flying from the city’s Stansted Airport to Glasgow Airport.
    I suggest you too Mr Eagles read the article more fully.
    Malcolm said there was only one class of travel, I've just shown there's more than one of travelling back to Scotland for Ms Black.
    She told the Paisley Daily Express: “It appears to me that the name of the ticket has given the impression that we are travelling in a different class, or in better seats in a separate area of the plane, which simply is not the case at all.

    “The Business UK ticket means that we have flexible travelling, which allows us to change flight times at the last minute at no extra cost, which I have had to do many times since being elected.

    ‘’It is very much like an open return on a train.”
    So she picked the more expensive option for her own convenience?
    She is an MP and I'm sure her travel schedule is more complicated than ours. It would cost the taxpayer an awful lot more if she bought inflexible tickets and then had to buy new ones because they couldn't be changed. Much better value to pay slightly more up front and then have the flexibility to change if she needs to.
    Thanks @Topping

    Last minute tickets are always very expensive too. Even a very inconvienient and long last minute train change would be more expensive than these tickets.
    As a taxpayer paying her salary these arrangements look very sensible to me.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    You absolute thick balloon , there is only one class of travel
    You really are thick as pig crap Malcolm.

    All but one of these trips was a Business UK ticket, with the other, a £108 economy seat flying from the city’s Stansted Airport to Glasgow Airport.
    There is only one class of travel on flights , unless you count Ryanair , reserving seats, using toilet , etc
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684
    dixiedean said:

    Tbf to the SNP, which is not my natural inclination, 15 mins to debate devolved powers does seem less than optimal.

    Dixie, understatement of the century
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,468

    On top of the staff allegations and the SNP furore, is there a real chance that we'll have a new Speaker before the recess?
    Claire Perry seems to be reading too much into his words in suggesting there was a double meaning to what he said. Although not a word I would use in the circumstances it has a clear meaning as to what he was suggesting she was doing and telling her off for doing so. Why she had assumed it was to do with child birth without any hint of a double meaning in his tone of voice I have no idea. Can only assume it is because of history between them, but she does seem to have jumped to unreasonable assumptions.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    You absolute thick balloon , there is only one class of travel
    You really are thick as pig crap Malcolm.

    All but one of these trips was a Business UK ticket, with the other, a £108 economy seat flying from the city’s Stansted Airport to Glasgow Airport.
    I suggest you too Mr Eagles read the article more fully.
    Malcolm said there was only one class of travel, I've just shown there's more than one of travelling back to Scotland for Ms Black.
    She told the Paisley Daily Express: “It appears to me that the name of the ticket has given the impression that we are travelling in a different class, or in better seats in a separate area of the plane, which simply is not the case at all.

    “The Business UK ticket means that we have flexible travelling, which allows us to change flight times at the last minute at no extra cost, which I have had to do many times since being elected.

    ‘’It is very much like an open return on a train.”
    So she picked the more expensive option for her own convenience?
    If she has to cancel enough, then it will be cheaper to get the flexible ticket.

    For me this is the kind of stupid story that newspapers love where politicians can't win. If she doesn't buy the flexible tickets and then has to cancel flights, the papers will report that as a waste of money also.
    The reason these stories get so much attention is that the media companies have clamped down on expenses claimed by journalists, so they love to highlight expenses made by others.

    I’m no fan of Mahri Black nor George Osborne, but the idea that someone travelling on irregular business shouldn’t buy a flexible ticket, or that a Cabinet minister shouldn’t travel in first on the train with his red box is just silly.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,928
    Anazina said:

    tlg86 said:

    The 48 team/3 hosts World Cup makes it likely that England/Scotland/Wales launch a joint bid for 2030.

    Centenary of the inaugural World Cup. It would be nice for Uruguay to host it but they'd need Argentina and Chile too.

    China has to have a chance for 2030 or 2034.

    Personally I wouldn't have a problem of including RoI in a joint bid. Games in Cardiff, Dublin and Glasgow would be good.
    To do an ENG/SCO/WAL treble bid we'd need to invest in a second Welsh ground – almost certainly the Liberty Stadium in Swansea as the Millennium Stadium will be used for sure in Cardiff.

    It would require some – but not ridiculous – investment to take it up to 34,000 capacity or so.

    You can't have a host nation with just one venue – not allowed by Fifa rules AIUI.
    Millennium Stadium is now the Principality Stadium. I was in Cardiff for the Bank Holiday weekend.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited June 2018
    Anazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    You absolute thick balloon , there is only one class of travel
    You really are thick as pig crap Malcolm.

    All but one of these trips was a Business UK ticket, with the other, a £108 economy seat flying from the city’s Stansted Airport to Glasgow Airport.
    I suggest you too Mr Eagles read the article more fully.
    Malcolm said there was only one class of travel, I've just shown there's more than one of travelling back to Scotland for Ms Black.
    She told the Paisley Daily Express: “It appears to me that the name of the ticket has given the impression that we are travelling in a different class, or in better seats in a separate area of the plane, which simply is not the case at all.

    “The Business UK ticket means that we have flexible travelling, which allows us to change flight times at the last minute at no extra cost, which I have had to do many times since being elected.

    ‘’It is very much like an open return on a train.”
    Open return tickets don't give you the option of sitting in first class.

    You either have to buy a first class open or pay for an upgrade.

    I do concede the latter does confuse many people like the time most of the media were surprised when George Osbrone sat in first class with an open standard ticket.
    She's travelling in economy - the tickets are labelled up as "Business UK". It is not business class, rather flexible economy class.
    In any case, WTF cares?
    MPs spending more than is reasonably necessary on travel costs is relevant information, though despite my natural inclination against the SNP I'm not feeling the outrage on this particular claim.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Scott_P said:
    Does anyone know if that means all three of Canada, USA and Mexico automatically qualify?
    I believe all three qualify because the World Cup will now feature 48 teams.
    That's bloody stupid number. 32 is more than enough.
    That's easy for you to say when you support a major footballing nation. Millions of avid fans worldwide have almost no chance of seeing their country at a World Cup when it is limited to 32 places. The key, as @tlg86 suggests downthread, is coming up with a better format.
    If Iceland can make it, off a population of a few hundred thousand, just about any team should be able to.

    In any case, the 'all must have prizes' is a stupid mentality. Who wants to watch matches between mediocre sides? Expanding the number of teams just makes for *fewer* clashes between the top nations because most will only happen now in the knock-out phases. The World Cup should be a showcase for the sport's best.
    Who is suggesting all must win prizes? There will remain one winner. The advance of the game throughout the world, and in the increase in quality among so-called smaller nations, means expansion over time is both natural and wise. The Iceland example suits my argument as much as it suits yours – smaller nations are improving. The tournament should not be a closed shop.

    I think 48 teams will remain for several decades as it accounts for around a quarter of all the nations in the world, which is a fair split. But the 2026 format is problematic – two teams qualifying from groups of three is a near-nonsense.
    The tournament isn't a closed shop: those who are good enough will qualify.

    Increasing the tournament to 48 teams increases the risk of poorer teams reaching the later rounds, as well as of fewer high-profile early matches. 8x4 groups cuts out enough to ensure that there are fewer fluke qualifiers, which is more likely with 16x3 (note - 'fluke' is not the same as 'small'). That said, and a possible point of agreement between us (?) is that the format becomes a good deal better if FIFA were to junk the round-of-32 and have only the group winners progress (which would also ensure no Anschluss matches).
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    malcolmg said:

    dixiedean said:

    Tbf to the SNP, which is not my natural inclination, 15 mins to debate devolved powers does seem less than optimal.

    Dixie, understatement of the century
    Nonsense. The SNP were never going to give their consent to the Brexit bill, because then they wouldn’t have a grievance to whinge about.

    We should give them and their specious complaints all the attention they deserve: none whatsoever.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    You absolute thick balloon , there is only one class of travel
    You really are thick as pig crap Malcolm.

    All but one of these trips was a Business UK ticket, with the other, a £108 economy seat flying from the city’s Stansted Airport to Glasgow Airport.
    I suggest you too Mr Eagles read the article more fully.
    Malcolm said there was only one class of travel, I've just shown there's more than one of travelling back to Scotland for Ms Black.
    She told the Paisley Daily Express: “It appears to me that the name of the ticket has given the impression that we are travelling in a different class, or in better seats in a separate area of the plane, which simply is not the case at all.

    “The Business UK ticket means that we have flexible travelling, which allows us to change flight times at the last minute at no extra cost, which I have had to do many times since being elected.

    ‘’It is very much like an open return on a train.”
    So she picked the more expensive option for her own convenience?
    She'd still be able to expense the cancelled flights as well surely? So it would end up being more expensive for the tax payer.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    kjh said:

    On top of the staff allegations and the SNP furore, is there a real chance that we'll have a new Speaker before the recess?
    Claire Perry seems to be reading too much into his words in suggesting there was a double meaning to what he said. Although not a word I would use in the circumstances it has a clear meaning as to what he was suggesting she was doing and telling her off for doing so. Why she had assumed it was to do with child birth without any hint of a double meaning in his tone of voice I have no idea. Can only assume it is because of history between them, but she does seem to have jumped to unreasonable assumptions.
    I think Perry has misread Bercow here - he's used the word before in relation to a contribution from Hollobone:

    2016-03-11


    Mr Speaker

    Order. Just before the hon. Member for Kettering takes an intervention from the hon. Gentleman, I just remind him that the Bill contains two clauses, the first of which is the only substantive clause, containing four subsections. The second clause is simply the short title and commencement date of the Bill, and the Bill itself takes up a little over one page. As the hon. Member for Kettering has now dilated very eloquently and with great courtesy for 53 minutes, he might perhaps consider focusing, with that laser-like precision for which he is renowned in all parts of the House, upon the first clause of his two-clause Bill.
    Mr Hollobone

    Hollobone

    I genuinely seek your guidance, Mr Speaker. Is it in order for me to suggest during the moving of the Bill’s Second Reading that additional clauses be added to strengthen and clarify aspects that some Members feel are not necessarily covered by clause 1?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881
    edited June 2018
    Sandpit said:


    The reason these stories get so much attention is that the media companies have clamped down on expenses claimed by journalists, so they love to highlight expenses made by others.

    I’m no fan of Mahri Black nor George Osborne, but the idea that someone travelling on irregular business shouldn’t buy a flexible ticket, or that a Cabinet minister shouldn’t travel in first on the train with his red box is just silly.

    I think that's absolving the public of blame. We want to read stories about greedy politicians even when it isn't true.

    But yes - journalists should be able to recognise this example wasn't a story, indeed they've only made it a story by trying to mislead people into thinking she was travelling business class.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited June 2018
    Sandpit said:



    The whole expenses outrage really annoyed me. Not because some MPs weren't on the fiddle or absolutely taking the piss, but the way in which every claim was blow up as a massive scandal regardless if it was or wasn't.

    If you work in a job were the company says you can claim x per year for travel, and you fly twice a week, every normal person would say what is the best / most flexible arrangement I can afford within that budget. Only a masochist would say oh I will spend every week searching for the cheapest RyanAir flight possible.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    Andrew Lilico: Any possible Brexit deal will be worse than remaining in the EU.

    https://capx.co/another-nail-in-the-coffin-for-a-meaningful-brexit/
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Given that she's travelling from Glasgow to London to Glasgow, it would make much more sense to stick with economy single tickets or take the train.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Sandpit said:



    The whole expenses outrage really annoyed me. Not because some MPs weren't on the fiddle or absolutely taking the piss, but the way in which every claim was blow up as a massive scandal regardless if it was or wasn't.

    If you work in a job were the company says you can claim x per year for travel, and you fly twice a week, every normal person would say what is the best / most flexible arrangement I can afford within that budget. Only a masochist would say oh I will spend every week searching for the cheapest RyanAir flight possible.
    Quite so, well said.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    Sandpit said:



    The whole expenses outrage really annoyed me. Not because some MPs weren't on the fiddle or absolutely taking the piss, but the way in which every claim was blow up as a massive scandal regardless if it was or wasn't.

    If you work in a job were the company says you can claim x per year for travel, and you fly twice a week, every normal person would say what is the best / most flexible arrangement I can afford within that budget. Only a masochist would say oh I will spend every week searching for the cheapest RyanAir flight possible.
    Seeing as all the Scottish, Northern Irish, possibly west/North welsh and southwest/far north English MPs may well have a need to fly regularly it's probably best that there is a dedicated bod to liase with through parliament.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Sandpit said:



    The whole expenses outrage really annoyed me. Not because some MPs weren't on the fiddle or absolutely taking the piss, but the way in which every claim was blow up as a massive scandal regardless if it was or wasn't.

    I think in the public fury what is reasonable or not tended to get lost. A lot on travel looks bad, but for many MPs will be perfectly justifiable to do the job effectively.

    Though I still say my own outrage at someone getting a trouser press on expenses is justified - you need to wear smart attire in the chamber or you are told to leave, so if someone cannot afford a suit or other smart clothing for some reason that would seem reasonable to claim for, but having sharper creases is not a requirement, so doesn't need to be claimed for.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Do you think a story would have been written about her ticketing choice if it had been given it's Industry name of "Plus Flex"?
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    edited June 2018

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Scott_P said:
    Does anyone know if that means all three of Canada, USA and Mexico automatically qualify?
    I believe all three qualify because the World Cup will now feature 48 teams.
    That's bloody stupid number. 32 is more than enough.
    snip

    snip

    Who is suggesting all must win prizes? There will remain one winner. The advance of the game throughout the world, and in the increase in quality among so-called smaller nations, means expansion over time is both natural and wise. The Iceland example suits my argument as much as it suits yours – smaller nations are improving. The tournament should not be a closed shop.

    I think 48 teams will remain for several decades as it accounts for around a quarter of all the nations in the world, which is a fair split. But the 2026 format is problematic – two teams qualifying from groups of three is a near-nonsense.
    The tournament isn't a closed shop: those who are good enough will qualify.

    Increasing the tournament to 48 teams increases the risk of poorer teams reaching the later rounds, as well as of fewer high-profile early matches. 8x4 groups cuts out enough to ensure that there are fewer fluke qualifiers, which is more likely with 16x3 (note - 'fluke' is not the same as 'small'). That said, and a possible point of agreement between us (?) is that the format becomes a good deal better if FIFA were to junk the round-of-32 and have only the group winners progress (which would also ensure no Anschluss matches).
    To a degree. I've piggybacked on an idea from tlg86 downthread, which I think works well.

    As for those who are good enough qualifying, Europe is still discriminated against under the current proposals whereas it will become ridiculously easy for the South American countries to get there. That needs looking at again.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Alistair said:

    Do you think a story would have been written about her ticketing choice if it had been given it's Industry name of "Plus Flex"?

    Classic newspaper trick of headline not matching the body, Black clearly guilty of smiling on a plane too.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    rkrkrk said:

    Sandpit said:


    The reason these stories get so much attention is that the media companies have clamped down on expenses claimed by journalists, so they love to highlight expenses made by others.

    I’m no fan of Mahri Black nor George Osborne, but the idea that someone travelling on irregular business shouldn’t buy a flexible ticket, or that a Cabinet minister shouldn’t travel in first on the train with his red box is just silly.

    I think that's absolving the public of blame. We want to read stories about greedy politicians even when it isn't true.

    But yes - journalists should be able to recognise this example wasn't a story, indeed they've only made it a story by trying to mislead people into thinking she was travelling business class.
    Of course MPs having a well known history of taking the piss over expenses doesn’t help the situation, but the Lobby trying to make everything into a big story is bollocks. They just don’t like it that their famous long lunches and dubious expenses got stopped by their editors.

    One idiot got a 15 minute interview with the Chancellor of the Exchequer the day before the Budget, and spent more than half his allotted time talking about how the CotE travels from his constituency to London.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,235

    Andrew Lilico: Any possible Brexit deal will be worse than remaining in the EU.

    https://capx.co/another-nail-in-the-coffin-for-a-meaningful-brexit/

    Interesting. So the prognosis is vassal-statehood for a decade or more until the next generation of Leavers liberate us with Brexit 2.0.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    Now, now, she can't very well travel in lumpenclass can she?
    She is, read the full article.
    Well... technically she only said they don’t entitle her to a better seat

    Priority boarding, front of plane, empty seat next to you sure. But not a better seat.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881
    Sandpit said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Sandpit said:


    The reason these stories get so much attention is that the media companies have clamped down on expenses claimed by journalists, so they love to highlight expenses made by others.

    I’m no fan of Mahri Black nor George Osborne, but the idea that someone travelling on irregular business shouldn’t buy a flexible ticket, or that a Cabinet minister shouldn’t travel in first on the train with his red box is just silly.

    I think that's absolving the public of blame. We want to read stories about greedy politicians even when it isn't true.

    But yes - journalists should be able to recognise this example wasn't a story, indeed they've only made it a story by trying to mislead people into thinking she was travelling business class.
    Of course MPs having a well known history of taking the piss over expenses doesn’t help the situation, but the Lobby trying to make everything into a big story is bollocks. They just don’t like it that their famous long lunches and dubious expenses got stopped by their editors.

    One idiot got a 15 minute interview with the Chancellor of the Exchequer the day before the Budget, and spent more than half his allotted time talking about how the CotE travels from his constituency to London.
    Yes - I also suspect that the more prominent journalists are classified as 'talent' and so get around these restrictions.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    Andrew Lilico: Any possible Brexit deal will be worse than remaining in the EU.

    https://capx.co/another-nail-in-the-coffin-for-a-meaningful-brexit/

    Interesting. So the prognosis is vassal-statehood for a decade or more until the next generation of Leavers liberate us with Brexit 2.0.
    Once we've left the EU our future relationship will be defined by General elections in the normal manner. I doubt we'll go down the Irish route of mulitple referenda on difficult questions after politicians experience with this one on the EU - so I doubt we'd have a re-entry referendum or one to say leave the customs union if we're in it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Yorkcity said:

    dixiedean said:

    Tbf to the SNP, which is not my natural inclination, 15 mins to debate devolved powers does seem less than optimal.

    Yes I agree..

    When I heard that , 15 mins , seems like they are taking the piss out of Scotland.
    1/8 of a 2 hour debate - about right no?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Andrew Lilico: Any possible Brexit deal will be worse than remaining in the EU.

    https://capx.co/another-nail-in-the-coffin-for-a-meaningful-brexit/

    Interesting. So the prognosis is vassal-statehood for a decade or more until the next generation of Leavers liberate us with Brexit 2.0.
    I think he is labouring under the misapprehension that "The Public" shares the same view of Brexit as he does, and will be as disappointed and outraged as he would be in a Brexit in Name Only. Whereas for a huge proportion of The Public, I'm pretty sure that Brexit in Name Only will adequately constitute Brexit.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,755
    dixiedean said:

    Tbf to the SNP, which is not my natural inclination, 15 mins to debate devolved powers does seem less than optimal.

    Especially as it was only a single statement from the government minister with occasional interventions, i.e. the opposing argument was not allowed to be properly aired.

    For the record, I calculate Lidington spoke 1792 words (plus 123 from his supporters) compared to 842 from his opponents.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,235
    That's only a problem for the rebels if Theresa wants them to fail. It's looking more likely that she shares their aims but has to indulge in a bit of party-management theatre.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,678
    tlg86 said:

    Can't we just reclassify Liverpool as being in Wales?

    A staunch lover of Wales, having lived there for several years, but there is no way in a million years you're getting Merseyside to pretend to be Welsh.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/1006881720749223936

    Do the SNP actually do anything but complain?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697

    Andrew Lilico: Any possible Brexit deal will be worse than remaining in the EU.

    https://capx.co/another-nail-in-the-coffin-for-a-meaningful-brexit/

    "Third, the Conservative Party is at risk of being finished over the medium term, for three reasons.

    Its shambolic failure to implement Brexit may make it untrustworthy for any profound task in the foreseeable future. When once it was Conservatives one leaned on in a time of economic or political crisis, they will not be seen as a safe pair of hands next time."

    Now that I do agree with.

    The Conservative Party will rue the day they betrayed 17.4m votes for Brexit...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    RobD said:

    Do the SNP actually do anything but complain?

    Point 4 is a belter

    preplanned outrage/disappointment...
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,037
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/1006881720749223936

    Do the SNP actually do anything but complain?
    They run Scotland. Something your beloved (incompetent) Tories can learn from instead of making a hash of everything.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    TGOHF said:

    With a bit of luck the ongoing SNP transition into SF will result in them permanently refusing to take their seats.

    But the subsidy junk SNP will still claim their allowances.

    Who can forget women of the people Mhairi Black travelling first class.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/paisleys-snp-mps-defend-travel-8925654
    Now, now, she can't very well travel in lumpenclass can she?
    She is, read the full article.
    Well... technically she only said they don’t entitle her to a better seat

    Priority boarding, front of plane, empty seat next to you sure. But not a better seat.
    Assuming it’s BA (I think they are the only ones who marketed “Business UK”) then at the time in question these were 1-class flights - before reintroducing domestic business class next year. Maybe I missed out, but pretty sure that you didn’t get priority boarding or blocked middle seat at that point - also if she’s flying out of London City it’s on 2+2 Embraers anyway, so no middle seat to block.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,981

    NEW THREAD

  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/thistlejohn/status/1006881720749223936

    Do the SNP actually do anything but complain?
    They run Scotland. Something your beloved (incompetent) Tories can learn from instead of making a hash of everything.
    How's that working out for them?

    https://www.ft.com/content/553a9256-3801-11e8-8b98-2f31af407cc8
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Alistair said:

    Do you think a story would have been written about her ticketing choice if it had been given it's Industry name of "Plus Flex"?

    No. And it's low journalism standards like that which have made Trump possible.

    You can't argue against lies if your own approach to the truth is so mendacious and self-serving.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,590
    Pulpstar said:

    kjh said:

    On top of the staff allegations and the SNP furore, is there a real chance that we'll have a new Speaker before the recess?
    Claire Perry seems to be reading too much into his words in suggesting there was a double meaning to what he said. Although not a word I would use in the circumstances it has a clear meaning as to what he was suggesting she was doing and telling her off for doing so. Why she had assumed it was to do with child birth without any hint of a double meaning in his tone of voice I have no idea. Can only assume it is because of history between them, but she does seem to have jumped to unreasonable assumptions.
    I think Perry has misread Bercow here - he's used the word before in relation to a contribution from Hollobone:

    2016-03-11


    Mr Speaker

    Order. Just before the hon. Member for Kettering takes an intervention from the hon. Gentleman, I just remind him that the Bill contains two clauses, the first of which is the only substantive clause, containing four subsections. The second clause is simply the short title and commencement date of the Bill, and the Bill itself takes up a little over one page. As the hon. Member for Kettering has now dilated very eloquently and with great courtesy for 53 minutes, he might perhaps consider focusing, with that laser-like precision for which he is renowned in all parts of the House, upon the first clause of his two-clause Bill.
    Mr Hollobone

    Hollobone

    I genuinely seek your guidance, Mr Speaker. Is it in order for me to suggest during the moving of the Bill’s Second Reading that additional clauses be added to strengthen and clarify aspects that some Members feel are not necessarily covered by clause 1?
    While I think it time for Bercow to go, it's pretty clear that he's using it as the opposite of focus - and any physical dilation referred to would be that of the eye's iris...

    The second dictionary definition is given as:
    "speak or write at length on (a subject)."

    In any event, Bercow seems to have royally pissed off the SNP, so the odds of his departing must have shortened a bit.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,678
    Pulpstar said:

    Once we've left the EU our future relationship will be defined by General elections in the normal manner. I doubt we'll go down the Irish route of mulitple referenda on difficult questions after politicians experience with this one on the EU - so I doubt we'd have a re-entry referendum or one to say leave the customs union if we're in it.

    There is no problem with referenda in my opinion. The problems of this (and all too often EU referenda) is that:

    A) If you do hold a referendum, in the EU, if you give the wrong result you're sent back six months later and asked again until you give the right result. Or even just repackage the deal and then slam it through without one.

    B) Our referendum didn't set out at all what would happen with a LEAVE vote.

    There are people who won't agree, but it is Cameron's determination to hold a vote (to shore up his right flank) without any thinking about the consequences of a LEAVE vote which in my view moved him from a pretty good PM to one of the worst in modern times.
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