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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Britain’s brittle stalemate

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    Mortimer said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    He absolutely nails May's strategy. She is going to play for time until October, fuck the RoI and then hope the other 26 tell Varadkar to bend over and take it out of fear of no deal.
    The contradictory EU concern that there isn’t a time limit for the backstop and that the backstop isn’t the end state is entirely illogical.

    The obvious solution is a time limited UK wide backstop.

    This sentence is very telling:
    ‘The concern is that a huge economy like the UK’s, sitting on the edge of the EU, but not fully bound by the rules and obligations of the single market, could significantly undercut the EU economy.’

    The idea of British divergence terrifies the EU.
    That quoted sentence nails the EU’s attitude. They’re shit-scared of a divergent UK being a success.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    Sandpit said:

    Rather busy in here this lunchtime, how come we aren't all at Labour Live to see the Supreme Leader speak?

    I wonder if some enterprising member can find a way of getting the accounts for the event made public? I’d quite like to know how much it cost them to pull in an A-List band at the last minute - even if they do have a single to promote this week.
    The whole thing sounds a bit capitalist to me. Bands being paid. Tickets sold (well, a few dozen anyway), ice cream for the consumers etc etc.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    Humiliating settlements rarely stick.

    The harder the EU play ball, the more divergent we'll end up becoming. Its the golden rule of Brexit....
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855

    Is there some other sport taking place?

    Le Mans 24 hour race starts in a couple of hours.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Moral victory for Australia against France.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    AndyJS said:

    Moral victory for Australia against France.

    :) Aus 'won' in the same way that Corbyn 'won' in 2017.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116
    Mortimer said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    He absolutely nails May's strategy. She is going to play for time until October, fuck the RoI and then hope the other 26 tell Varadkar to bend over and take it out of fear of no deal.
    The contradictory EU concern that there isn’t a time limit for the backstop and that the backstop isn’t the end state is entirely illogical.

    The obvious solution is a time limited UK wide backstop.

    This sentence is very telling:
    ‘The concern is that a huge economy like the UK’s, sitting on the edge of the EU, but not fully bound by the rules and obligations of the single market, could significantly undercut the EU economy.’

    The idea of British divergence terrifies the EU.
    This article analyses that claim.

    Parts of it haven't aged well - prepare to laugh at the bit about the 2020 election.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/britains-singapore-threat-philip-hammond-may-brexit/
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    Hodges has briefly turned away from football to pass comment on Labour UnLive:

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1007953710058758144
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    By "humiliating", do they mean that we wont, after all, be having cake and eating it?

    I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    Betting wise, I could certainly live with that. Hunt a bigger payout.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,970
    Mr. Sandpit, I tend not to watch other motorsport, but is there UK coverage (ITV4?) of Le Mans?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2018

    By "humiliating", do they mean that we wont, after all, be having cake and eating it?

    I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked.
    If the EU decides to humiliate the UK for having the temerity to leave I would have thought that will only increase support for leaving with UK voters.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,919
    ydoethur said:

    RobC said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hell, looks like a good chance the the Mackintosh may be a complete goner this time.
    Written in the heat of the moment, so hopefully over pessimistic.

    'Lost Glasgow

    Having tried, and failed, to get near the site, the latest, tragic word, comes from site fan John Pollock, who writes: "I’ve just left and the floors inside are falling and the buildings going in on itself.

    "I can guarantee that it’s the end for the building. Even the fire brigade were saying they’re not saving the building - now it’s a case of damage limitation to the surrounding buildings"

    I am weeping here...

    And, for all you amateur 'fire investigators', already claiming it's an 'insurance job'; shame on you - men and women are still risking their lives...'

    From all the aerial photographs I've seen, I don't think Pollock is being pessimistic. It looks awful. The entire roof has gone, the building will be a shell at best and the heat will surely have done significant and probably irreversible damage to the structure. Without joining the armchair investigators and shrieking 'arson' (apart from anything else I doubt if it was heavily insured) I will admit I am curious as to what has caused it.
    An electrical fault or carelessness from building contractors must be possibilities. Arson by some brainless moron inevitably can't be ruled out. A terrible loss for Glasgow and the nation.
    And not least, a very serious blow for the Unviersity of Glasgow, and above all for those students who have lost work as a result. I wonder how may final year students will have lost three years of work and the chance of pulling together a decent portfolio for September?
    Thankfully the BBC are reporting that no student work was being stored or displayed at the School. It had been displayed at a nearby venue which was unaffected. But the loss of the building is a real tragedy.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921

    Mr. Sandpit, I tend not to watch other motorsport, but is there UK coverage (ITV4?) of Le Mans?

    Parts are apparently being shown on Quest:
    https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/how-to/entertainment/how-watch-le-mans-2018-on-tv-online-3678864/
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    ydoethur said:

    Mortimer said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    He absolutely nails May's strategy. She is going to play for time until October, fuck the RoI and then hope the other 26 tell Varadkar to bend over and take it out of fear of no deal.
    The contradictory EU concern that there isn’t a time limit for the backstop and that the backstop isn’t the end state is entirely illogical.

    The obvious solution is a time limited UK wide backstop.

    This sentence is very telling:
    ‘The concern is that a huge economy like the UK’s, sitting on the edge of the EU, but not fully bound by the rules and obligations of the single market, could significantly undercut the EU economy.’

    The idea of British divergence terrifies the EU.
    This article analyses that claim.

    Parts of it haven't aged well - prepare to laugh at the bit about the 2020 election.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/britains-singapore-threat-philip-hammond-may-brexit/
    A crash Brexit is the shortest way to divergence. If the EU had any sense they'd propose a time limited, strung out transition.

    Because it gives them what they want, gives us what we need, and makes long-term co-operation likely.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    AndyJS said:

    By "humiliating", do they mean that we wont, after all, be having cake and eating it?

    I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked.
    If the EU decides to humiliate the UK for having the temerity to leave I would have thought that will only increase support for leaving with UK voters.
    I still don't get what it means. If "humiliate" means we end up as a Third Country, as the EU call it, then we have only ourselves to blame.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116

    ydoethur said:

    RobC said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hell, looks like a good chance the the Mackintosh may be a complete goner this time.
    Written in the heat of the moment, so hopefully over pessimistic.

    'Lost Glasgow

    Having tried, and failed, to get near the site, the latest, tragic word, comes from site fan John Pollock, who writes: "I’ve just left and the floors inside are falling and the buildings going in on itself.

    "I can guarantee that it’s the end for the building. Even the fire brigade were saying they’re not saving the building - now it’s a case of damage limitation to the surrounding buildings"

    I am weeping here...

    And, for all you amateur 'fire investigators', already claiming it's an 'insurance job'; shame on you - men and women are still risking their lives...'

    From all the aerial photographs I've seen, I don't think Pollock is being pessimistic. It looks awful. The entire roof has gone, the building will be a shell at best and the heat will surely have done significant and probably irreversible damage to the structure. Without joining the armchair investigators and shrieking 'arson' (apart from anything else I doubt if it was heavily insured) I will admit I am curious as to what has caused it.
    An electrical fault or carelessness from building contractors must be possibilities. Arson by some brainless moron inevitably can't be ruled out. A terrible loss for Glasgow and the nation.
    And not least, a very serious blow for the Unviersity of Glasgow, and above all for those students who have lost work as a result. I wonder how may final year students will have lost three years of work and the chance of pulling together a decent portfolio for September?
    Thankfully the BBC are reporting that no student work was being stored or displayed at the School. It had been displayed at a nearby venue which was unaffected. But the loss of the building is a real tragedy.
    So TUD informs me. That's about the only bit of good news in the whole mess.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116
    Didn't do Kinnock any favours, certainly.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,970
    Mr. Jessop, cheers (not sure what channel that is, but I'd only be dipping in and out, probably).
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    He absolutely nails May's strategy. She is going to play for time until October, fuck the RoI and then hope the other 26 tell Varadkar to bend over and take it out of fear of no deal.
    The contradictory EU concern that there isn’t a time limit for the backstop and that the backstop isn’t the end state is entirely illogical.

    The obvious solution is a time limited UK wide backstop.

    This sentence is very telling:
    ‘The concern is that a huge economy like the UK’s, sitting on the edge of the EU, but not fully bound by the rules and obligations of the single market, could significantly undercut the EU economy.’

    The idea of British divergence terrifies the EU.
    That quoted sentence nails the EU’s attitude. They’re shit-scared of a divergent UK being a success.

    There's a reason they put fences and barriers around communist regimes.

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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    I’ve said before that the deal will be Britain’s Treaty of Versailles.

    That treaty started unravelling within 5 years of signing, and 15 years later was a dead letter.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,827
    Says Blair Cultist
    (((Dan Hodges)))

    @DPJHodges
    The thing about the Labour Live farce is that it isn’t - as the Corbynites claim - about a new kind of politics. It’s an attempt to underpin the Cult of the Leader. And that’s the oldest politics there is.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855

    Mr. Sandpit, I tend not to watch other motorsport, but is there UK coverage (ITV4?) of Le Mans?

    I think it’s on Eurosport in the U.K. I’ve got it on a US tv channel called Velocity.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,970
    Mr. Blue, still expecting a shameful May capitulation, or no deal, myself. Possible that'll lead to a drive for a second referendum.

    Anyway, time to be off.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921

    Says Blair Cultist
    (((Dan Hodges)))

    @DPJHodges
    The thing about the Labour Live farce is that it isn’t - as the Corbynites claim - about a new kind of politics. It’s an attempt to underpin the Cult of the Leader. And that’s the oldest politics there is.

    Says a cultist ...
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,919
    Sandpit said:

    Oh crap, that fire in Glasgow doesn’t look good at all.
    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1007917998517243905

    The roof of the O2 arena next door looks to have completely collapsed as well. Be a lot of very unhappy Foo Fighters fans today as they were playing there tonight.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,029
    RoyalBlue said:

    I’ve said before that the deal will be Britain’s Treaty of Versailles.

    That treaty started unravelling within 5 years of signing, and 15 years later was a dead letter.

    Are you expecting France to occupy the Brexit heartlands?
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,827

    Says Blair Cultist
    (((Dan Hodges)))

    @DPJHodges
    The thing about the Labour Live farce is that it isn’t - as the Corbynites claim - about a new kind of politics. It’s an attempt to underpin the Cult of the Leader. And that’s the oldest politics there is.

    Says a cultist ...
    Not me thats obsessed with Labour Live though is it?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116

    Says Blair Cultist
    (((Dan Hodges)))

    @DPJHodges
    The thing about the Labour Live farce is that it isn’t - as the Corbynites claim - about a new kind of politics. It’s an attempt to underpin the Cult of the Leader. And that’s the oldest politics there is.

    Says a cultist ...
    Not me thats obsessed with Labour Live though is it?
    From the photos, doesn't look like anyone is (except the Tories pointing and laughing)!
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921

    Says Blair Cultist
    (((Dan Hodges)))

    @DPJHodges
    The thing about the Labour Live farce is that it isn’t - as the Corbynites claim - about a new kind of politics. It’s an attempt to underpin the Cult of the Leader. And that’s the oldest politics there is.

    Says a cultist ...
    Not me thats obsessed with Labour Live though is it?
    No, but you're obsessed with anyone daring to criticise the glorious leader of your cult. especially when they're members of your own team ...
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    He really does have very good political antennae. Dithering Theresa wouldn't have made the decision that quickly if at all.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    Labour Live gets its own spoof Twitter account. As least I think it’s a spoof.
    https://twitter.com/LabourLive_2018
    https://twitter.com/LabourLive_2018/status/1007968028720582660
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116
    And another fire takes out an historic albeit not iconic building:

    Newport church fire: Building wreckage still smouldering

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-44505360
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,213

    Sandpit said:

    Oh crap, that fire in Glasgow doesn’t look good at all.
    https://twitter.com/PA/status/1007917998517243905

    The roof of the O2 arena next door looks to have completely collapsed as well. Be a lot of very unhappy Foo Fighters fans today as they were playing there tonight.
    Sad to see the damage done, I kind of like Glasgow - I was there last September, staying just a few minutes away from the Arts School.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116
    Sandpit said:

    Labour Live gets its own spoof Twitter account. As least I think it’s a spoof.
    https://twitter.com/LabourLive_2018
    https://twitter.com/LabourLive_2018/status/1007968028720582660

    There is such a politically incorrect joke about two fat ladies could be made there...
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,213
    AndyJS said:
    They beat England at Euro 2016 :open_mouth:
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Mortimer said:

    Humiliating settlements rarely stick.

    The harder the EU play ball, the more divergent we'll end up becoming. Its the golden rule of Brexit....
    The UK becoming a very large economy comparable to or perhaps even larger than Germany is very much a possibility. Singapore plus plus plus I suppose we could call it. But it isn't something that will just happen. It would require a very interventionist government. It would also require one heck of a lot of immigration. Not sure it is what many Brexit supporters had in mind.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Labour Live gets its own spoof Twitter account. As least I think it’s a spoof.
    https://twitter.com/LabourLive_2018
    https://twitter.com/LabourLive_2018/status/1007968028720582660

    There is such a politically incorrect joke about two fat ladies could be made there...
    LOL, I think best politically incorrect joke goes to this one.

    https://twitter.com/TheRedDigger/status/1007968363082125312

    Right, Le Mans start to watch, back later to bet on the cricket.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,827

    Says Blair Cultist
    (((Dan Hodges)))

    @DPJHodges
    The thing about the Labour Live farce is that it isn’t - as the Corbynites claim - about a new kind of politics. It’s an attempt to underpin the Cult of the Leader. And that’s the oldest politics there is.

    Says a cultist ...
    Not me thats obsessed with Labour Live though is it?
    No, but you're obsessed with anyone daring to criticise the glorious leader of your cult. especially when they're members of your own team ...
    Wheras you??
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,322
    ydoethur said:

    Is it possible the British government wishes to destroy the DUP? Give them enough rope to hang themselves with? I wonder if they realise how dangerous a position Northern Ireland is in? They must know that a hard border in Ireland would create real problems and at the same time sabotaging a decent Brexit (from the point of view of rUK) would hardly get them much sympathy. Reliant on public subsidies from Westminster and with a leader of the opposition vocal in his support of Irish republicanism you'd think they might be worried.
    Ultimately if the UK has no deal with the EU the EU faces the following options;

    1) A hard border in Ireland

    2) Customs checks between Ireland and the EU

    3) No border with Russia, the Ukraine or Turkey.

    May seems to be gambling that those three options are so unpalatable that the EU will cave in and throw Ireland under a bus. That article, which makes it clear the EU is busily blaming Britain, or at least everyone but itself and its inept negotiating team for this shambles, suggests this is a remote possibility but gross miscalculation has been a feature of May's premiership.
    I don't think May is gambling or plotting or strategising - she is simply trying to move from day to day without crashing. It's unfortunate that the situation actually calls for a coherent plan. Even a cynical plan, or a plan with huge snags. Any plan.
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315

    Now if you want to see how to do it...

    https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/1007913990981390336

    Are they all Iceland supporters? Has everyone in Reykjavik moved to Russia for the next two weeks?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116

    ydoethur said:

    Is it possible the British government wishes to destroy the DUP? Give them enough rope to hang themselves with? I wonder if they realise how dangerous a position Northern Ireland is in? They must know that a hard border in Ireland would create real problems and at the same time sabotaging a decent Brexit (from the point of view of rUK) would hardly get them much sympathy. Reliant on public subsidies from Westminster and with a leader of the opposition vocal in his support of Irish republicanism you'd think they might be worried.
    Ultimately if the UK has no deal with the EU the EU faces the following options;

    1) A hard border in Ireland

    2) Customs checks between Ireland and the EU

    3) No border with Russia, the Ukraine or Turkey.

    May seems to be gambling that those three options are so unpalatable that the EU will cave in and throw Ireland under a bus. That article, which makes it clear the EU is busily blaming Britain, or at least everyone but itself and its inept negotiating team for this shambles, suggests this is a remote possibility but gross miscalculation has been a feature of May's premiership.
    I don't think May is gambling or plotting or strategising - she is simply trying to move from day to day without crashing. It's unfortunate that the situation actually calls for a coherent plan. Even a cynical plan, or a plan with huge snags. Any plan.
    Yes that's also very possible, as I sort of noted in my other post on the subject.
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    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    By "humiliating", do they mean that we wont, after all, be having cake and eating it?

    I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked.
    The only way Brexit will be humiliating is if we have vassal status, and the deal is overseen by a court from just one side. I think May is smart enough to realise that would be idiotic.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited June 2018
    brendan16 said:

    Now if you want to see how to do it...

    https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/1007913990981390336

    Are they all Iceland supporters? Has everyone in Reykjavik moved to Russia for the next two weeks?
    Can Iceland maternity services cope with another Iceland run in a major football tournament?
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    edited June 2018
    Many thanks for the article, David. An interesting read as usual.

    In my youth I used to be very taken with what was then the Liberal Party. I don't recall the EEC or its precursors being anything in UK politics at that time. Probably I lost interest in politics in general as I got older, so wasn't aware of it happening but I would like to know why the Liberals (or Lib Dems) became so totally in favour of the EU, and when that happened.

    Does anyone remember?

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    edited to change 2nd why to when
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116

    brendan16 said:

    Now if you want to see how to do it...

    https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/1007913990981390336

    Are they all Iceland supporters? Has everyone in Reykjavik moved to Russia for the next two weeks?
    Can Iceland maternity services cope with another Iceland run in a major football tournament?
    Huh? I missed that story (admittedly I find football about as interesting as the sex lives of potatoes).
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Iceland fans are off...
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    ydoethur said:

    brendan16 said:

    Now if you want to see how to do it...

    https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/1007913990981390336

    Are they all Iceland supporters? Has everyone in Reykjavik moved to Russia for the next two weeks?
    Can Iceland maternity services cope with another Iceland run in a major football tournament?
    Huh? I missed that story (admittedly I find football about as interesting as the sex lives of potatoes).
    9 months after Euro 2016 they had a major rush on.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/wallaceme/status/1007970772684541952

    Do you get a discount if you purchase a reusable eco cup (at £12 a pop) ?
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Elliot said:

    By "humiliating", do they mean that we wont, after all, be having cake and eating it?

    I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked.
    The only way Brexit will be humiliating is if we have vassal status, and the deal is overseen by a court from just one side. I think May is smart enough to realise that would be idiotic.
    She is. But she's also unwilling to accept no deal, the other side know we won't go to no deal so therefore that's all they're willing to offer us. Between no deal and vassal she's going to take vassal.

    It's almost as if the idiots who ensured zero preparation was done for no deal have never heard of Game Theory.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921

    Says Blair Cultist
    (((Dan Hodges)))

    @DPJHodges
    The thing about the Labour Live farce is that it isn’t - as the Corbynites claim - about a new kind of politics. It’s an attempt to underpin the Cult of the Leader. And that’s the oldest politics there is.

    Says a cultist ...
    Not me thats obsessed with Labour Live though is it?
    No, but you're obsessed with anyone daring to criticise the glorious leader of your cult. especially when they're members of your own team ...
    Wheras you??
    Urrm, if you hadn't noticed I don't have a team - I'm not a member, or even particularly a supporter, of any political party. Perhaps you should try it ...
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116

    ydoethur said:

    brendan16 said:

    Now if you want to see how to do it...

    https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/1007913990981390336

    Are they all Iceland supporters? Has everyone in Reykjavik moved to Russia for the next two weeks?
    Can Iceland maternity services cope with another Iceland run in a major football tournament?
    Huh? I missed that story (admittedly I find football about as interesting as the sex lives of potatoes).
    9 months after Euro 2016 they had a major rush on.
    Ah. Now I understand. I misread it as 'children's services' and I was wondering why child vulnerability increased because Iceland won a football match.
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    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    Elliot said:

    By "humiliating", do they mean that we wont, after all, be having cake and eating it?

    I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked.
    The only way Brexit will be humiliating is if we have vassal status, and the deal is overseen by a court from just one side. I think May is smart enough to realise that would be idiotic.
    She is. But she's also unwilling to accept no deal, the other side know we won't go to no deal so therefore that's all they're willing to offer us. Between no deal and vassal she's going to take vassal.

    It's almost as if the idiots who ensured zero preparation was done for no deal have never heard of Game Theory.
    If she signs up for vassal she should be deposed and leadership candidates should tear up the deal. It is completely unacceptable to sign up for a bilateral deal where only one side oversees it.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited June 2018
    The crowds at Jezfest don't exactly look very diverse. Lots of white middle aged (middle class looking) folk.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Iceland score against Argentina.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    I think there could be a lot of goals in Argentina matches.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Sandpit said:

    Labour Live gets its own spoof Twitter account. As least I think it’s a spoof.
    https://twitter.com/LabourLive_2018
    https://twitter.com/LabourLive_2018/status/1007968028720582660

    Love it - "legs 11" - 55! Two not skinny wimmin - 44!....
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116

    The crowds at Jezfest don't exactly look very diverse. Lots of white middle aged (middle class looking) folk.

    In that they resemble the Dear Leader.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116
    tlg86 said:

    I think there could be a lot of goals in Argentina matches.

    And allegedly much scoring in Iceland...
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    I think they are singing Ohhhhh Jeremy Corbyn at the WC ;-)
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Scott_P said:
    Wow! That's extortionate - still if it's needed to save the NHS I'll take a dozen and see you in ER.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    tlg86 said:

    I think there could be a lot of goals in Argentina matches.

    https://twitter.com/Coral/status/1007977697262362624
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116
    Jason Roy - 101 off 97 to quiet questions about his place in the side.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    JezFest Crowd hears Jezza has arrived at the venue....

    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1007977999143235584
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    ydoethur said:

    Jason Roy - 101 off 97 to quiet questions about his place in the side.

    Played much steadier at the start today. He could afford to with Bairstow teeing off but he should remember innings like this. He is better than a bull in a china shop up front.

    My wife asked who England are playing today. I told her Australia. "Not as difficult as Scotland then?" came the reply.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    Paine hit in the face. Roy doesn't run. Much better spirit about this series than in recent times.

    And they are off again.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jason Roy - 101 off 97 to quiet questions about his place in the side.

    Played much steadier at the start today. He could afford to with Bairstow teeing off but he should remember innings like this. He is better than a bull in a china shop up front.

    My wife asked who England are playing today. I told her Australia. "Not as difficult as Scotland then?" came the reply.
    Well the convicts are three first choice bowlers, first choice captain and vice captain and two top batsmen light.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jason Roy - 101 off 97 to quiet questions about his place in the side.

    Played much steadier at the start today. He could afford to with Bairstow teeing off but he should remember innings like this. He is better than a bull in a china shop up front.

    My wife asked who England are playing today. I told her Australia. "Not as difficult as Scotland then?" came the reply.
    Well the convicts are three first choice bowlers, first choice captain and vice captain and two top batsmen light.
    Shhh...don't tell her that!
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2018
    ydoethur said:

    Well the convicts are three first choice bowlers, first choice captain and vice captain and two top batsmen light.

    The convicts ought to be light their full first XI and still be better than the Scots.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,827

    JezFest Crowd hears Jezza has arrived at the venue....

    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1007977999143235584

    You really should get a life
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    edited June 2018
    Seriously disrupted innings for Roy in particular. So many restarts. Makes it even more impressive. Just as well because England looked a batsman short to me today. Where is Stokes, by the way? Is he injured?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    JezFest Crowd hears Jezza has arrived at the venue....

    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1007977999143235584

    You really should get a life
    Somebody has lost their sense of humour.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    felix said:

    Scott_P said:
    Wow! That's extortionate - still if it's needed to save the NHS I'll take a dozen and see you in ER.
    At least the weather's been kind. Imagine if they were knee-deep in mud.....that would have really hurt the turn out.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Damn Jason Roy out.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387

    Damn Jason Roy out.

    But we need 5 50-run partenrships not just 4!
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116
    edited June 2018
    One other point to make is that they don't have their first-choice wicketkeeper in the side. Because Paine has to play, as the captain, Alex Carey is being kept out of the side. He might not be much better than Paine as a keeper but he is a much better and more aggressive batsman.
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    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    AnneJGP said:

    Many thanks for the article, David. An interesting read as usual.

    In my youth I used to be very taken with what was then the Liberal Party. I don't recall the EEC or its precursors being anything in UK politics at that time. Probably I lost interest in politics in general as I got older, so wasn't aware of it happening but I would like to know why the Liberals (or Lib Dems) became so totally in favour of the EU, and when that happened.

    Does anyone remember?

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    edited to change 2nd why to when

    Good Question,

    While I don't have a first hand account of why/how/when the Lib Dems became so pro EU, I think it was related to the merger of the SDP and the Old Liberal party.

    Some, perhaps many of the most anti EU members of the Liberal party where also those who opposed the merger and left at about that time, ether to set up the 'continuation' Liberal party or politics altogether.

    Meaning that after the merger it was one of the few things that a clear majority of the new party could agree on.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138

    Damn Jason Roy out.

    I posted after he fell, not before, honestly!

    A lot rests on Buttler now. Not at all sure why Billings is still in the side.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116
    Scott_P said:
    How could he manage to come up with that if beer was £5 a pint?

    Bloody Labour MPs, all loaded...
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    BigRich said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Many thanks for the article, David. An interesting read as usual.

    In my youth I used to be very taken with what was then the Liberal Party. I don't recall the EEC or its precursors being anything in UK politics at that time. Probably I lost interest in politics in general as I got older, so wasn't aware of it happening but I would like to know why the Liberals (or Lib Dems) became so totally in favour of the EU, and when that happened.

    Does anyone remember?

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    edited to change 2nd why to when

    Good Question,

    While I don't have a first hand account of why/how/when the Lib Dems became so pro EU, I think it was related to the merger of the SDP and the Old Liberal party.

    Some, perhaps many of the most anti EU members of the Liberal party where also those who opposed the merger and left at about that time, ether to set up the 'continuation' Liberal party or politics altogether.

    Meaning that after the merger it was one of the few things that a clear majority of the new party could agree on.

    Woy and Shirley were always very keen on the EU. David Owen not so much. The SDP had a range of views within it, as did the old Liberal party. It changed after I had drifted away but Charlie Kennedy and Nick Clegg clearly played important roles.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Scott_P said:

    LabourLive

    There you go. Now it's twice as big.

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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    He absolutely nails May's strategy. She is going to play for time until October, fuck the RoI and then hope the other 26 tell Varadkar to bend over and take it out of fear of no deal.
    The contradictory EU concern that there isn’t a time limit for the backstop and that the backstop isn’t the end state is entirely illogical.

    The obvious solution is a time limited UK wide backstop.

    This sentence is very telling:
    ‘The concern is that a huge economy like the UK’s, sitting on the edge of the EU, but not fully bound by the rules and obligations of the single market, could significantly undercut the EU economy.’

    The idea of British divergence terrifies the EU.
    That quoted sentence nails the EU’s attitude. They’re shit-scared of a divergent UK being a success.
    LOL, keep imagining anyone thinks UK will be a success.
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    BigRich said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Many thanks for the article, David. An interesting read as usual.

    In my youth I used to be very taken with what was then the Liberal Party. I don't recall the EEC or its precursors being anything in UK politics at that time. Probably I lost interest in politics in general as I got older, so wasn't aware of it happening but I would like to know why the Liberals (or Lib Dems) became so totally in favour of the EU, and when that happened.

    Does anyone remember?

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    edited to change 2nd why to when

    Good Question,

    While I don't have a first hand account of why/how/when the Lib Dems became so pro EU, I think it was related to the merger of the SDP and the Old Liberal party.

    Some, perhaps many of the most anti EU members of the Liberal party where also those who opposed the merger and left at about that time, ether to set up the 'continuation' Liberal party or politics altogether.

    Meaning that after the merger it was one of the few things that a clear majority of the new party could agree on.

    Thank you, that's very interesting. It's certainly a very likely suggestion.
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    sladeslade Posts: 1,929
    DavidL said:

    BigRich said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Many thanks for the article, David. An interesting read as usual.

    In my youth I used to be very taken with what was then the Liberal Party. I don't recall the EEC or its precursors being anything in UK politics at that time. Probably I lost interest in politics in general as I got older, so wasn't aware of it happening but I would like to know why the Liberals (or Lib Dems) became so totally in favour of the EU, and when that happened.

    Does anyone remember?

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    edited to change 2nd why to when

    Good Question,

    While I don't have a first hand account of why/how/when the Lib Dems became so pro EU, I think it was related to the merger of the SDP and the Old Liberal party.

    Some, perhaps many of the most anti EU members of the Liberal party where also those who opposed the merger and left at about that time, ether to set up the 'continuation' Liberal party or politics altogether.

    Meaning that after the merger it was one of the few things that a clear majority of the new party could agree on.

    Woy and Shirley were always very keen on the EU. David Owen not so much. The SDP had a range of views within it, as did the old Liberal party. It changed after I had drifted away but Charlie Kennedy and Nick Clegg clearly played important roles.
    My MA thesis in 1966 was on the Liberal Party and European Integration. The issue of Britain's relationship with Europe was much discussed in the late 1940s and 1950s. In 1950 the party held a special Assembly which called for world government and a united Europe. In 1955 the party passed a resolution which included the following sentence; 'The Liberal party is committed to work for a federal Europe. Federation means the establishment of a common government for the countries of Europe, while each country would continue to control its own internal affairs; the immediate step to this end is the European Common Market.' At the same time there was a group of free traders in the party led by Oliver Smedley who thought the common market was a protectionist bloc. However their proposals were decisively rejected and the party remained committed to Europe.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    That quoted sentence nails the EU’s attitude. They’re shit-scared of a divergent UK being a success.
    LOL, keep imagining anyone thinks UK will be a success.
    I have been thinking seriously about offering a thread about this but for me this article was one of the most significant for the UK's future for some time: https://www.businessleader.co.uk/london-tech-week-is-here-how-does-the-uk-shape-up-when-it-comes-to-tech-investment/46358/

    The investment in IT in London is more than the 9 next European Cities put together. At this rate of growth you can see IT being a competitor with the City within 5-10 years. it will drive UK growth higher, probably higher than the EZ.

    The more depressing point, Malcolm, is that London also got more than 80% of all the investment in tech in the UK. How does Scotland share in this growth potential? How does the nascent tech companies of Edinburgh and Dundee stop talent draining south?

    I was delighted to see the SNP so clearly behind the expansion of Heathrow. We urgently need better connectivity to where the UK's growth is going to be for the foreseeable future. But we need to think about how we share this growth around a bit more.
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,135
    Ha! Messi misses the penalty.
    Come on Iceland!
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    "The Hand of Cod". Arf!
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,138
    It's just as well Ali can bowl. His batting has fallen apart.
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    slade said:

    DavidL said:

    BigRich said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Many thanks for the article, David. An interesting read as usual.

    In my youth I used to be very taken with what was then the Liberal Party. I don't recall the EEC or its precursors being anything in UK politics at that time. Probably I lost interest in politics in general as I got older, so wasn't aware of it happening but I would like to know why the Liberals (or Lib Dems) became so totally in favour of the EU, and when that happened.

    Does anyone remember?

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    edited to change 2nd why to when

    Good Question,

    While I don't have a first hand account of why/how/when the Lib Dems became so pro EU, I think it was related to the merger of the SDP and the Old Liberal party.

    Some, perhaps many of the most anti EU members of the Liberal party where also those who opposed the merger and left at about that time, ether to set up the 'continuation' Liberal party or politics altogether.

    Meaning that after the merger it was one of the few things that a clear majority of the new party could agree on.

    Woy and Shirley were always very keen on the EU. David Owen not so much. The SDP had a range of views within it, as did the old Liberal party. It changed after I had drifted away but Charlie Kennedy and Nick Clegg clearly played important roles.
    My MA thesis in 1966 was on the Liberal Party and European Integration. The issue of Britain's relationship with Europe was much discussed in the late 1940s and 1950s. In 1950 the party held a special Assembly which called for world government and a united Europe. In 1955 the party passed a resolution which included the following sentence; 'The Liberal party is committed to work for a federal Europe. Federation means the establishment of a common government for the countries of Europe, while each country would continue to control its own internal affairs; the immediate step to this end is the European Common Market.' At the same time there was a group of free traders in the party led by Oliver Smedley who thought the common market was a protectionist bloc. However their proposals were decisively rejected and the party remained committed to Europe.
    Thank you for the reply. That was a dimension of the Liberal Party which completely passed me by - I was a couple of decades too young to be politically aware in the 1950s and I don't remember anything about that in later years. Actually, had I been aware of it I would probably have wholeheartedly supported it.

    My views on the EEC/EU have changed.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    Sandpit said:
    Why is OJ wearing a badge that says 'artist'?
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited June 2018

    On topic, with a leader like Cherie Blair or Emily Thornberry, I think the Conservatives would be polling around 35%. There are enough voters who disagree with their politics to form a solid block in opposition.

    It isn't the 1990s anymore. I could only see the Conservatives polling in the 20s under May to a Labour comfortably in the 40s under a (new) New Labour leader if he/she was so eurosceptic and tough on immigration, and much better in leading a strategy on the EU negotiations, whilst also having answers to increasing public spending sustainably at home, supporting families, and increasing home ownership to attract younger voters, and the soft-Left, without scaring the horses.

    An establishment Labour leader would not have the vote attracting policies on student debt and housing that Corbyn Labour has had.
    Exactly. That’s why Blairites are not gaining the kind of enthusiasm Corbyn does on the matter of Brexit with younger voters, despite their position being more in tune with those voters than Corbyn is. I think people say Labour needs a New Labour type who is just tough on immigration and eurosceptic because that’s the kind of Labour Party they’d like to face, and it’d limit the mainstream political spectrum to outloooks they are personally comfortable with.
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,913
    AndyJS said:

    By "humiliating", do they mean that we wont, after all, be having cake and eating it?

    I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked.
    If the EU decides to humiliate the UK for having the temerity to leave I would have thought that will only increase support for leaving with UK voters.
    well I'm sure that will be a great comfort to us all as we slide into perpetual decline.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    LOL at Labour Live. Corbyn’s people are so dumb. Why stage an event like this during festival season and a World Cup weekend. As if many of his voters are going to miss WC games to see Owen Jones et al speak.
This discussion has been closed.