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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,764
    Really good bowling by Australia in the last 8 overs. Frustrating.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Watched a bit of Le Mans (cheers, Mr. Jessop, turns out Quest is Freeview channel 37). Rather interesting stuff. There's another hour at 10pm, and about four hours or so tomorrow from 10am, I think.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,005
    DavidL said:

    BigRich said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Many thanks for the article, David. An interesting read as usual.

    In my youth I used to be very taken with what was then the Liberal Party. I don't recall the EEC or its precursors being anything in UK politics at that time. Probably I lost interest in politics in general as I got older, so wasn't aware of it happening but I would like to know why the Liberals (or Lib Dems) became so totally in favour of the EU, and when that happened.

    Does anyone remember?

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    edited to change 2nd why to when

    Good Question,

    While I don't have a first hand account of why/how/when the Lib Dems became so pro EU, I think it was related to the merger of the SDP and the Old Liberal party.

    Some, perhaps many of the most anti EU members of the Liberal party where also those who opposed the merger and left at about that time, ether to set up the 'continuation' Liberal party or politics altogether.

    Meaning that after the merger it was one of the few things that a clear majority of the new party could agree on.

    Woy and Shirley were always very keen on the EU. David Owen not so much. The SDP had a range of views within it, as did the old Liberal party. It changed after I had drifted away but Charlie Kennedy and Nick Clegg clearly played important roles.
    I think they were already set as the pro-EU party by Ashdown who was probably more in favour than Kennedy.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979
    edited June 2018
    I was very active in 1988 in the merger of the Liberals and SDP. Although I was a member of the Liberal Party, my political leanings were with the SDP and I welcomed the merger hoping for the best from each party in terms of policies and organisation.

    The SDP favoured social democracy and was very supportive of the economic policies of EU countries which were mostly social democratic.

    The Liberals, on the other hand, were economically liberal and internationalist. They supported the EU as part of the international order.

    The LibDems, like the other parties, are a coalition. In the case of the LibDems of social democrats and liberals. Charles Kennedy was a social democrat. Nick Clegg is an economic liberal. The economic liberals, sometimes called orange-bookers, favour free markets where possible - hence Clegg's support for student fees and Lansley's "reform" of the NHS. This caused the big schism in the LibDems during the coalition and many SDPers left and joined Labour.

    Over the years, the EU has moved from social democracy to neo-liberalism under the influence of Germany. This has reduced support for the EU on the left.

    SDP LibDems are close to Labour and can switch parties easily. Liberal LibDems are closer to the Tories and could even go into coalition with them but not anymore after their thorough shafting. Newer members don't identify with either the SDP or the Liberals, but are united in their anti-Brexit stance.

    Other LibDems might have a different take on it, but this is mine.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    LOL at Labour Live. Corbyn’s people are so dumb. Why stage an event like this during festival season and a World Cup weekend. As if many of his voters are going to miss WC games to see Owen Jones et al speak.

    Sounds like there are more journalists than punters.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited June 2018
    Scott_P said:
    I think there were more people at a Tory car boot sale I went to in Buckhurst Hill last weekend than there are at 'Labour Live'
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,750
    edited June 2018
    England 342-8. May be less than they hoped for, but Australia will have to bat pretty well to close in on it.

    A brisk first 20 overs and then a downpour might be their best hope.

    Edit - they do of course have Mark Wood bowling, which will help quite a lot.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Another great result for Iceland drawing with Argentina
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,764

    DavidL said:

    BigRich said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Many thanks for the article, David. An interesting read as usual.

    In my youth I used to be very taken with what was then the Liberal Party. I don't recall the EEC or its precursors being anything in UK politics at that time. Probably I lost interest in politics in general as I got older, so wasn't aware of it happening but I would like to know why the Liberals (or Lib Dems) became so totally in favour of the EU, and when that happened.

    Does anyone remember?

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    edited to change 2nd why to when

    Good Question,

    While I don't have a first hand account of why/how/when the Lib Dems became so pro EU, I think it was related to the merger of the SDP and the Old Liberal party.

    Some, perhaps many of the most anti EU members of the Liberal party where also those who opposed the merger and left at about that time, ether to set up the 'continuation' Liberal party or politics altogether.

    Meaning that after the merger it was one of the few things that a clear majority of the new party could agree on.

    Woy and Shirley were always very keen on the EU. David Owen not so much. The SDP had a range of views within it, as did the old Liberal party. It changed after I had drifted away but Charlie Kennedy and Nick Clegg clearly played important roles.
    I think they were already set as the pro-EU party by Ashdown who was probably more in favour than Kennedy.
    That's a fair point. The mystery is how an issue with such a range of views became such a defining characteristic.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited June 2018

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Watched a bit of Le Mans (cheers, Mr. Jessop, turns out Quest is Freeview channel 37). Rather interesting stuff. There's another hour at 10pm, and about four hours or so tomorrow from 10am, I think.

    British Eurosport 1 have the whole race if you can get that, or Radio Le Mans https://tunein.com/radio/Radio-Le-Mans-s48714/
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    @rottenborough They shouldn’t have borthered either. Imagine going to Labour Live as part of your job....

    Great game Argentina v Iceland. Messi didn’t have the greatest of days. They’ll be comparisons with Ronaldo’s performance last night....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Sandpit, alas, no.

    Huzzah for Iceland!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Labour Live... embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing.... :D
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,764
    ydoethur said:

    England 342-8. May be less than they hoped for, but Australia will have to bat pretty well to close in on it.

    A brisk first 20 overs and then a downpour might be their best hope.

    Edit - they do of course have Mark Wood bowling, which will help quite a lot.

    I think that Australia clawed back 30-40 runs in those last 9 overs denying Buttler a well deserved century. I trust the England bowlers were paying attention as to how they did it.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Come in dark all of a sudden. Wonder if rain's on the way.

    There was spots of it in Le Mans, but nothing to affect the racing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited June 2018
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    RobD said:

    Labour Live... embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing.... :D

    Probably not as embarrassing as William Hague's baseball cap even though it shows a far bigger failure of decision-making because there must have been many occasions when Labour Live could have been killed. Otoh Hague's hat featured in almost every story about him. The same with Neil Kinnock tripping at the seaside. Ain't life unfair.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,764
    This is embarrassing. The cricket I mean. No idea what's going on at Labour Live.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787

    Sandpit said:
    Why is OJ wearing a badge that says 'artist'?
    They thought ‘Talent’ would be too pretentious.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,750
    Buttler's bad review gives Finch a life on a plate?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,750

    RobD said:

    Labour Live... embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing.... :D

    Probably not as embarrassing as William Hague's baseball cap even though it shows a far bigger failure of decision-making because there must have been many occasions when Labour Live could have been killed. Otoh Hague's hat featured in almost every story about him. The same with Neil Kinnock tripping at the seaside. Ain't life unfair.
    Or the Sheffield Rally. Or that pop video he made. Or the fight he was involved in.

    But this looks like a combination of the lot.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,669
    RobD said:

    Labour Live... embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing.... :D

    Maybe you should leave early.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Scott_P said:
    Ram packed! People are having to sit on the floor.
  • LOL at Labour Live. Corbyn’s people are so dumb. Why stage an event like this during festival season and a World Cup weekend. As if many of his voters are going to miss WC games to see Owen Jones et al speak.

    The free thinkers that came up with this have no concept of how summer time and weekends are spent by actual people.
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483
    https://twitter.com/Dogtrouser/status/1007925666766114816

    This band is called Reverend and the makers, the crowds are going wild!
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ram packed! People are having to sit on the floor.
    Hardly Red Wedge, is it?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    edited June 2018
    So can England RU rescue failure from the jaws of success again ?

    So far this WC seems to be more about Ronaldo vs Messi than the actual teams.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    Alternatively all the order might be built in this country and the factory win other orders from overseas afterwards.

    Firstly, it is 'assembled' rather than built (although international supply chains makes this an interesting point). Secondly, the experience of Hitachi and the IEP indicates that this won't be the case.
    Of course its assembled, all factories use a mixture of components which come from other suppliers.

    And your basis for the investment being a failure is a Hitachi factory which I believe is still operating and employing many hundreds of people and is smaller in any case.

    Finally Siemens have already opened an even large factory about twenty miles from the proposed new one so they seem to be making a commitment to the area in various industrial sectors.
    There is 'assembly' and there is 'assembly'. The IEP trains assembled at Newton Aycliffe use bodyshells that are made in Japan using friction-stir welding (a UK invention, as it happens). Hitachi have not transferred this critical technology to the UK factory. The bogies and traction systems are also being made in Japan.

    I'd argue that if the factory cannot make the bodyshells, bogies or traction kit, it is not really 'making' the trains; it is assembling them from major pieces, and lacks the critical infrastructure to operate in any way independently in design or construction. (And this is why Hitachi could easily shift orders meant to be built in the UK to other EU countries)

    If Siemens make the bogies and bodyshells in the UK I'd be less sceptical. But I bet they won't (and will be pleasantly surprised if they do).
    Sure, but even lower level assembly is better than not having anything and there's always the possibility of moving up the value chain if the workforce make a success of things.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Just come back from a Pokémon Go community Day event at Weston Park in Sheffield. Absolutely heaving - is Jeremy having similar success at his event in London xD ?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Labour Live... embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing.... :D

    Probably not as embarrassing as William Hague's baseball cap even though it shows a far bigger failure of decision-making because there must have been many occasions when Labour Live could have been killed. Otoh Hague's hat featured in almost every story about him. The same with Neil Kinnock tripping at the seaside. Ain't life unfair.
    Or the Sheffield Rally. Or that pop video he made. Or the fight he was involved in.

    But this looks like a combination of the lot.
    Yes but however laughable this is, and however inept it shows Jezza's aides to be, it will not be personally embarrassing for Corbyn in the way the baseball cap was for Hague, to take one example. It's the personal link.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    edited June 2018
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ram packed! People are having to sit on the floor.
    I'm unsure if I'm transgressing against LBGTQ etiquette, but does Eddie Izzard now have a bust?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    edited June 2018

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ram packed! People are having to sit on the floor.
    I'm unsure if I'm transgressing against LBGTQ etiquette, but does Eddie Izzard now have a bust?
    I was just wondering the same thing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,750

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Labour Live... embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing.... :D

    Probably not as embarrassing as William Hague's baseball cap even though it shows a far bigger failure of decision-making because there must have been many occasions when Labour Live could have been killed. Otoh Hague's hat featured in almost every story about him. The same with Neil Kinnock tripping at the seaside. Ain't life unfair.
    Or the Sheffield Rally. Or that pop video he made. Or the fight he was involved in.

    But this looks like a combination of the lot.
    Yes but however laughable this is, and however inept it shows Jezza's aides to be, it will not be personally embarrassing for Corbyn in the way the baseball cap was for Hague, to take one example. It's the personal link.
    Hmmm.

    We will see.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    So can England RU rescue failure from the jaws of success again ?

    So far this WC seems to be more about Ronaldo vs Messi than the actual teams.

    Ronaldo had a far tougher task yesterday. Messi wasn't even able to beat Iceland.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited June 2018

    Hell, looks like a good chance the the Mackintosh may be a complete goner this time.
    Written in the heat of the moment, so hopefully over pessimistic.

    'Lost Glasgow

    Having tried, and failed, to get near the site, the latest, tragic word, comes from site fan John Pollock, who writes: "I’ve just left and the floors inside are falling and the buildings going in on itself.

    "I can guarantee that it’s the end for the building. Even the fire brigade were saying they’re not saving the building - now it’s a case of damage limitation to the surrounding buildings"

    I am weeping here...

    And, for all you amateur 'fire investigators', already claiming it's an 'insurance job'; shame on you - men and women are still risking their lives...'

    I used the Mackintosh building to create an art studio for a commercial I shot in Glasgow in about 2000. It was one of the finest and most interesting Scottish buildings I've been in. Anyone who hasn't visited has missed a treat. I was recreating something that looked like one of Degas' dancing classes and it looked almost perfect. A very sad day for Glasgow and if it was deliberately started I can only blame Brexit for creating the red mist that seems to be affecting us all.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    Where's Labour Live taking place ?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    Where's Labour Live taking place ?

    An empty field?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    Alternatively all the order might be built in this country and the factory win other orders from overseas afterwards.

    Firstly, it is 'assembled' rather than built (although international supply chains makes this an interesting point). Secondly, the experience of Hitachi and the IEP indicates that this won't be the case.
    Of course its assembled, all factories use a mixture of components which come from other suppliers.

    And your basis for the investment being a failure is a Hitachi factory which I believe is still operating and employing many hundreds of people and is smaller in any case.

    Finally Siemens have already opened an even large factory about twenty miles from the proposed new one so they seem to be making a commitment to the area in various industrial sectors.
    There is 'assembly' and there is 'assembly'. The IEP trains assembled at Newton Aycliffe use bodyshells that are made in Japan using friction-stir welding (a UK invention, as it happens). Hitachi have not transferred this critical technology to the UK factory. The bogies and traction systems are also being made in Japan.

    I'd argue that if the factory cannot make the bodyshells, bogies or traction kit, it is not really 'making' the trains; it is assembling them from major pieces, and lacks the critical infrastructure to operate in any way independently in design or construction. (And this is why Hitachi could easily shift orders meant to be built in the UK to other EU countries)

    If Siemens make the bogies and bodyshells in the UK I'd be less sceptical. But I bet they won't (and will be pleasantly surprised if they do).
    Sure, but even lower level assembly is better than not having anything and there's always the possibility of moving up the value chain if the workforce make a success of things.
    Alternatively, we could at the very least be making the major components here in the UK - and we can most certainly do it. Hitachi have shown they cannot be trusted on these matters, and I doubt Siemens can either.

    But the point remains: I really doubt there is going to be room in the medium term for this number of manufacturers, and one or more will go to the wall. Rolling stock typically has a 20 to 30 year lifespan (sometimes much more, sometimes much less), and once the current backlog of order is completed there will be somewhat of a sparsity. The last thing we need is another entrant.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    edited June 2018
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    BigRich said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Many thanks for the article, David. An interesting read as usual.

    In my youth I used to be very taken with what was then the Liberal Party. I don't recall the EEC or its precursors being anything in UK politics at that time. Probably I lost interest in politics in general as I got older, so wasn't aware of it happening but I would like to know why the Liberals (or Lib Dems) became so totally in favour of the EU, and when that happened.

    Does anyone remember?

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    edited to change 2nd why to when

    Good Question,

    While I don't have a first hand account of why/how/when the Lib Dems became so pro EU, I think it was related to the merger of the SDP and the Old Liberal party.

    Some, perhaps many of the most anti EU members of the Liberal party where also those who opposed the merger and left at about that time, ether to set up the 'continuation' Liberal party or politics altogether.

    Meaning that after the merger it was one of the few things that a clear majority of the new party could agree on.

    Woy and Shirley were always very keen on the EU. David Owen not so much. The SDP had a range of views within it, as did the old Liberal party. It changed after I had drifted away but Charlie Kennedy and Nick Clegg clearly played important roles.
    I think they were already set as the pro-EU party by Ashdown who was probably more in favour than Kennedy.
    That's a fair point. The mystery is how an issue with such a range of views became such a defining characteristic.
    I suppose because they have been so unequivocal in their position. When compared to the changing views of the other parties the Lib Dems have always been the ones who were both clear on the position and willing to articulate it whatever the political consequences.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ram packed! People are having to sit on the floor.
    I'm unsure if I'm transgressing against LBGTQ etiquette, but does Eddie Izzard now have a bust?
    And which bathroom is he supposed to use?
    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1007979328624349185
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ram packed! People are having to sit on the floor.
    LOL...
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    Where's Labour Live taking place ?

    And are there any English flags?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Sandpit said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ram packed! People are having to sit on the floor.
    I'm unsure if I'm transgressing against LBGTQ etiquette, but does Eddie Izzard now have a bust?
    And which bathroom is he supposed to use?
    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1007979328624349185
    That's going to get some angry tweets...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,748
    edited June 2018
    Roger said:

    Hell, looks like a good chance the the Mackintosh may be a complete goner this time.
    Written in the heat of the moment, so hopefully over pessimistic.

    'Lost Glasgow

    Having tried, and failed, to get near the site, the latest, tragic word, comes from site fan John Pollock, who writes: "I’ve just left and the floors inside are falling and the buildings going in on itself.

    "I can guarantee that it’s the end for the building. Even the fire brigade were saying they’re not saving the building - now it’s a case of damage limitation to the surrounding buildings"

    I am weeping here...

    And, for all you amateur 'fire investigators', already claiming it's an 'insurance job'; shame on you - men and women are still risking their lives...'

    I used the Mackintosh building to create an art studio for a commercial I shot in Glasgow in about 2000. It was one of the finest and most interesting Scottish buildings I've been in. Anyone who hasn't visited has missed a treat. I was recreating something that looked like one of Degas' dancing classes and it looked almost perfect. A very sad day for Glasgow and if it was deliberately started I can only blame Brexit for creating the red mist that seems to be affecting us all.
    I read something on Facebook that said "most of the salvaged & restored fixtures are off site". Hope, however small, springs eternal!
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967


    Of course its assembled, all factories use a mixture of components which come from other suppliers.

    Finally Siemens have already opened an even large factory about twenty miles from the proposed new one so they seem to be making a commitment to the area in various industrial sectors.

    There is 'assembly' and there is 'assembly'. The IEP trains assembled at Newton Aycliffe use bodyshells that are made in Japan using friction-stir welding (a UK invention, as it happens). Hitachi have not transferred this critical technology to the UK factory. The bogies and traction systems are also being made in Japan.

    I'd argue that if the factory cannot make the bodyshells, bogies or traction kit, it is not really 'making' the trains; it is assembling them from major pieces, and lacks the critical infrastructure to operate in any way independently in design or construction. (And this is why Hitachi could easily shift orders meant to be built in the UK to other EU countries)

    If Siemens make the bogies and bodyshells in the UK I'd be less sceptical. But I bet they won't (and will be pleasantly surprised if they do).
    Sure, but even lower level assembly is better than not having anything and there's always the possibility of moving up the value chain if the workforce make a success of things.
    Alternatively, we could at the very least be making the major components here in the UK - and we can most certainly do it. Hitachi have shown they cannot be trusted on these matters, and I doubt Siemens can either.

    But the point remains: I really doubt there is going to be room in the medium term for this number of manufacturers, and one or more will go to the wall. Rolling stock typically has a 20 to 30 year lifespan (sometimes much more, sometimes much less), and once the current backlog of order is completed there will be somewhat of a sparsity. The last thing we need is another entrant.
    If you're not going to trust foreign businesses who invest in this country then we're limited to British controlled businesses and in particular British controlled businesses without substantial overseas options.

    It might even be said that we should have nationalised rail engineering - do we want to start going down that path ?

    And if there will be an overcapacity in production capacity then the businesses involved will have to look for other work whether in different markets or different sectors.

    That seems preferable to not having enough production capacity leading to either getting overcharged for new supply and / or having to give some orders to foreign factories.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Labour Live... embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing.... :D

    Probably not as embarrassing as William Hague's baseball cap even though it shows a far bigger failure of decision-making because there must have been many occasions when Labour Live could have been killed. Otoh Hague's hat featured in almost every story about him. The same with Neil Kinnock tripping at the seaside. Ain't life unfair.
    Or the Sheffield Rally. Or that pop video he made. Or the fight he was involved in.

    But this looks like a combination of the lot.
    Yes but however laughable this is, and however inept it shows Jezza's aides to be, it will not be personally embarrassing for Corbyn in the way the baseball cap was for Hague, to take one example. It's the personal link.
    Cost of baseball cap == £2 to £30 on amazon.

    Cost of Labour Live == unknown, but estimates are between £ 10^5 to 10^6.

    True, Hague looked like a wanker, trying to get down with the kidz.

    But Corbyn looks like he can't organise a piss-up, even if he's nationalised the breweries.

    Hard to say which is more damaging, but Labour Live is certainly more costly.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    Where's Labour Live taking place ?

    An empty field?
    I had the thought that on a Saturday in June many parks would have quite a few people enjoying themselves.

    I wonder if Labour Live has fewer people there than would have been there in any case.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited June 2018

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Labour Live... embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing.... :D

    Probably not as embarrassing as William Hague's baseball cap even though it shows a far bigger failure of decision-making because there must have been many occasions when Labour Live could have been killed. Otoh Hague's hat featured in almost every story about him. The same with Neil Kinnock tripping at the seaside. Ain't life unfair.
    Or the Sheffield Rally. Or that pop video he made. Or the fight he was involved in.

    But this looks like a combination of the lot.
    Yes but however laughable this is, and however inept it shows Jezza's aides to be, it will not be personally embarrassing for Corbyn in the way the baseball cap was for Hague, to take one example. It's the personal link.
    Cost of baseball cap == £2 to £30 on amazon.

    Cost of Labour Live == unknown, but estimates are between £ 10^5 to 10^6.

    True, Hague looked like a wanker, trying to get down with the kidz.

    But Corbyn looks like he can't organise a piss-up, even if he's nationalised the breweries.

    Hard to say which is more damaging, but Labour Live is certainly more costly.
    Socialism Capitalism in action!
    https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/1007966828851859458
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    Roger said:

    Hell, looks like a good chance the the Mackintosh may be a complete goner this time.
    Written in the heat of the moment, so hopefully over pessimistic.

    'Lost Glasgow

    Having tried, and failed, to get near the site, the latest, tragic word, comes from site fan John Pollock, who writes: "I’ve just left and the floors inside are falling and the buildings going in on itself.

    "I can guarantee that it’s the end for the building. Even the fire brigade were saying they’re not saving the building - now it’s a case of damage limitation to the surrounding buildings"

    I am weeping here...

    And, for all you amateur 'fire investigators', already claiming it's an 'insurance job'; shame on you - men and women are still risking their lives...'

    I used the Mackintosh building to create an art studio for a commercial I shot in Glasgow in about 2000. It was one of the finest and most interesting Scottish buildings I've been in. Anyone who hasn't visited has missed a treat. I was recreating something that looked like one of Degas' dancing classes and it looked almost perfect. A very sad day for Glasgow and if it was deliberately started I can only blame Brexit for creating the red mist that seems to be affecting us all.
    LOL. You really are a tosser of the first order Roger. It is often said that those in the advertising industry have absolutely no morals and you appear to be trying very hard to be living proof if that.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    If you're not going to trust foreign businesses who invest in this country then we're limited to British controlled businesses and in particular British controlled businesses without substantial overseas options.

    It might even be said that we should have nationalised rail engineering - do we want to start going down that path ?

    And if there will be an overcapacity in production capacity then the businesses involved will have to look for other work whether in different markets or different sectors.

    That seems preferable to not having enough production capacity leading to either getting overcharged for new supply and / or having to give some orders to foreign factories.

    It's not a matter of 'trust' or not 'trust'; nationalisation or privatisation; and I have nothing against foreign firms investing in the UK. It's about creating a sustainable situation, and the government and DfT are going in exactly the opposite direction.

    "And if there will be an overcapacity in production capacity then the businesses involved will have to look for other work whether in different markets or different sectors."

    No, they'll just close the factory. If we do not design or manufacture critical components such as the bodyshells or running gear in this country, then we'll not have the equipment or skills to do so. Without those skills, there are fewer 'different markets or different sectors' that they can move into.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Where's Labour Live taking place ?

    An empty field?
    I had the thought that on a Saturday in June many parks would have quite a few people enjoying themselves.

    I wonder if Labour Live has fewer people there than would have been there in any case.
    White Hart Lane rec, capacity 15,000.

    Hard to say how many there are, given that there are a tonne of journos laughing and tweeting.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    Roger said:

    Hell, looks like a good chance the the Mackintosh may be a complete goner this time.
    Written in the heat of the moment, so hopefully over pessimistic.

    'Lost Glasgow

    Having tried, and failed, to get near the site, the latest, tragic word, comes from site fan John Pollock, who writes: "I’ve just left and the floors inside are falling and the buildings going in on itself.

    "I can guarantee that it’s the end for the building. Even the fire brigade were saying they’re not saving the building - now it’s a case of damage limitation to the surrounding buildings"

    I am weeping here...

    And, for all you amateur 'fire investigators', already claiming it's an 'insurance job'; shame on you - men and women are still risking their lives...'

    I used the Mackintosh building to create an art studio for a commercial I shot in Glasgow in about 2000. It was one of the finest and most interesting Scottish buildings I've been in. Anyone who hasn't visited has missed a treat. I was recreating something that looked like one of Degas' dancing classes and it looked almost perfect. A very sad day for Glasgow and if it was deliberately started I can only blame Brexit for creating the red mist that seems to be affecting us all.
    LOL. You really are a tosser of the first order Roger. It is often said that those in the advertising industry have absolutely no morals and you appear to be trying very hard to be living proof if that.
    I can only assume Roger is trolling. The last sentence of his comment was quite incredible ...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Labour Live... embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing.... :D

    Probably not as embarrassing as William Hague's baseball cap even though it shows a far bigger failure of decision-making because there must have been many occasions when Labour Live could have been killed. Otoh Hague's hat featured in almost every story about him. The same with Neil Kinnock tripping at the seaside. Ain't life unfair.
    Or the Sheffield Rally. Or that pop video he made. Or the fight he was involved in.

    But this looks like a combination of the lot.
    Yes but however laughable this is, and however inept it shows Jezza's aides to be, it will not be personally embarrassing for Corbyn in the way the baseball cap was for Hague, to take one example. It's the personal link.
    Cost of baseball cap == £2 to £30 on amazon.

    Cost of Labour Live == unknown, but estimates are between £ 10^5 to 10^6.

    True, Hague looked like a wanker, trying to get down with the kidz.

    But Corbyn looks like he can't organise a piss-up, even if he's nationalised the breweries.

    Hard to say which is more damaging, but Labour Live is certainly more costly.
    Socialism Capitalism in action!
    https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/1007966828851859458
    I do hope they've all been made in British factories paying a living wage and not using exploited workers as the Fawcett Society did:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/sustainable-fashion-blog/2014/nov/03/feminist-t-shirt-scandal-exposes-entire-system-exploitation-elle-whistles-fawcett-society
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    Roger said:

    Hell, looks like a good chance the the Mackintosh may be a complete goner this time.
    Written in the heat of the moment, so hopefully over pessimistic.

    'Lost Glasgow

    Having tried, and failed, to get near the site, the latest, tragic word, comes from site fan John Pollock, who writes: "I’ve just left and the floors inside are falling and the buildings going in on itself.

    "I can guarantee that it’s the end for the building. Even the fire brigade were saying they’re not saving the building - now it’s a case of damage limitation to the surrounding buildings"

    I am weeping here...

    And, for all you amateur 'fire investigators', already claiming it's an 'insurance job'; shame on you - men and women are still risking their lives...'

    I used the Mackintosh building to create an art studio for a commercial I shot in Glasgow in about 2000. It was one of the finest and most interesting Scottish buildings I've been in. Anyone who hasn't visited has missed a treat. I was recreating something that looked like one of Degas' dancing classes and it looked almost perfect. A very sad day for Glasgow and if it was deliberately started I can only blame Brexit for creating the red mist that seems to be affecting us all.
    I read something on Facebook that said "most of the salvaged & restored fixtures are off site". Hope, however small, springs eternal!
    And I am going to ask a rather difficult question: if it has been totally destroyed, should the building be rebuilt as it was (*), or should something else replace it?

    (*) With the addition of better fire-suppression systems ...
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Labour Live... embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing.... :D

    Probably not as embarrassing as William Hague's baseball cap even though it shows a far bigger failure of decision-making because there must have been many occasions when Labour Live could have been killed. Otoh Hague's hat featured in almost every story about him. The same with Neil Kinnock tripping at the seaside. Ain't life unfair.
    Or the Sheffield Rally. Or that pop video he made. Or the fight he was involved in.

    But this looks like a combination of the lot.
    Yes but however laughable this is, and however inept it shows Jezza's aides to be, it will not be personally embarrassing for Corbyn in the way the baseball cap was for Hague, to take one example. It's the personal link.
    Cost of baseball cap == £2 to £30 on amazon.

    Cost of Labour Live == unknown, but estimates are between £ 10^5 to 10^6.

    True, Hague looked like a wanker, trying to get down with the kidz.

    But Corbyn looks like he can't organise a piss-up, even if he's nationalised the breweries.

    Hard to say which is more damaging, but Labour Live is certainly more costly.
    Socialism Capitalism in action!
    https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/1007966828851859458


    What is a Power Bank for £9?



    (The value of Barclays Bank after it has been nationalized?)
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    Did anyone see an extremely obese kid sitting near Maradona ?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,770
    Re the Liberals and the EEC: if the former MP for Truro, David Penhaligon had not died in a car crash, and had then followed David Steele as leader of the Liberals, then I think they would have had a somewhat different view. I don't think they would have been outright Eurosceptic, but Europhilia would probably not have been a core policy.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Scott_P said:

    I do hope they've all been made in British factories paying a living wage and not using exploited workers as the Fawcett Society did:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/sustainable-fashion-blog/2014/nov/03/feminist-t-shirt-scandal-exposes-entire-system-exploitation-elle-whistles-fawcett-society

    twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1007996672708956162
    At least it isn't a racist mug....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    BigRich said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Labour Live... embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing.... :D

    Probably not as embarrassing as William Hague's baseball cap even though it shows a far bigger failure of decision-making because there must have been many occasions when Labour Live could have been killed. Otoh Hague's hat featured in almost every story about him. The same with Neil Kinnock tripping at the seaside. Ain't life unfair.
    Or the Sheffield Rally. Or that pop video he made. Or the fight he was involved in.

    But this looks like a combination of the lot.
    Yes but however laughable this is, and however inept it shows Jezza's aides to be, it will not be personally embarrassing for Corbyn in the way the baseball cap was for Hague, to take one example. It's the personal link.
    Cost of baseball cap == £2 to £30 on amazon.

    Cost of Labour Live == unknown, but estimates are between £ 10^5 to 10^6.

    True, Hague looked like a wanker, trying to get down with the kidz.

    But Corbyn looks like he can't organise a piss-up, even if he's nationalised the breweries.

    Hard to say which is more damaging, but Labour Live is certainly more costly.
    Socialism Capitalism in action!
    https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/1007966828851859458


    What is a Power Bank for £9?



    (The value of Barclays Bank after it has been nationalized?)
    :lol:
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    If you're not going to trust foreign businesses who invest in this country then we're limited to British controlled businesses and in particular British controlled businesses without substantial overseas options.

    It might even be said that we should have nationalised rail engineering - do we want to start going down that path ?

    And if there will be an overcapacity in production capacity then the businesses involved will have to look for other work whether in different markets or different sectors.

    That seems preferable to not having enough production capacity leading to either getting overcharged for new supply and / or having to give some orders to foreign factories.

    It's not a matter of 'trust' or not 'trust'; nationalisation or privatisation; and I have nothing against foreign firms investing in the UK. It's about creating a sustainable situation, and the government and DfT are going in exactly the opposite direction.

    "And if there will be an overcapacity in production capacity then the businesses involved will have to look for other work whether in different markets or different sectors."

    No, they'll just close the factory. If we do not design or manufacture critical components such as the bodyshells or running gear in this country, then we'll not have the equipment or skills to do so. Without those skills, there are fewer 'different markets or different sectors' that they can move into.
    Well we'll have to see but I rather take a chance that things work out well than not bother trying to begin with.

    I rather suspect similar discussion were had over inward investment in the 1980s.

    And while some of the factories created then have certainly closed others have been great successes.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,750

    Scott_P said:

    I do hope they've all been made in British factories paying a living wage and not using exploited workers as the Fawcett Society did:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/sustainable-fashion-blog/2014/nov/03/feminist-t-shirt-scandal-exposes-entire-system-exploitation-elle-whistles-fawcett-society

    twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1007996672708956162
    At least it isn't a racist mug....
    Ken Livingstone didn't turn up then?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    If you're not going to trust foreign businesses who invest in this country then we're limited to British controlled businesses and in particular British controlled businesses without substantial overseas options.

    It might even be said that we should have nationalised rail engineering - do we want to start going down that path ?

    And if there will be an overcapacity in production capacity then the businesses involved will have to look for other work whether in different markets or different sectors.

    That seems preferable to not having enough production capacity leading to either getting overcharged for new supply and / or having to give some orders to foreign factories.

    It's not a matter of 'trust' or not 'trust'; nationalisation or privatisation; and I have nothing against foreign firms investing in the UK. It's about creating a sustainable situation, and the government and DfT are going in exactly the opposite direction.

    "And if there will be an overcapacity in production capacity then the businesses involved will have to look for other work whether in different markets or different sectors."

    No, they'll just close the factory. If we do not design or manufacture critical components such as the bodyshells or running gear in this country, then we'll not have the equipment or skills to do so. Without those skills, there are fewer 'different markets or different sectors' that they can move into.
    Well we'll have to see but I rather take a chance that things work out well than not bother trying to begin with.

    I rather suspect similar discussion were had over inward investment in the 1980s.

    And while some of the factories created then have certainly closed others have been great successes.
    Oh, indeed, but you're missing my central point: the market is very limited, and the fact they're not kitting the factory out to make the important parts makes it harder to repurpose and easier to close. I'd feel much happier if Hitachi had actually shown more faith in UK industry, and fear Siemens will be doing the same.

    (I hope I'm wrong about that, though)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    BigRich said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Labour Live... embarrassing, embarrassing, embarrassing.... :D

    Probably not as embarrassing as William Hague's baseball cap even though it shows a far bigger failure of decision-making because there must have been many occasions when Labour Live could have been killed. Otoh Hague's hat featured in almost every story about him. The same with Neil Kinnock tripping at the seaside. Ain't life unfair.
    Or the Sheffield Rally. Or that pop video he made. Or the fight he was involved in.

    But this looks like a combination of the lot.
    Yes but however laughable this is, and however inept it shows Jezza's aides to be, it will not be personally embarrassing for Corbyn in the way the baseball cap was for Hague, to take one example. It's the personal link.
    Cost of baseball cap == £2 to £30 on amazon.

    Cost of Labour Live == unknown, but estimates are between £ 10^5 to 10^6.

    True, Hague looked like a wanker, trying to get down with the kidz.

    But Corbyn looks like he can't organise a piss-up, even if he's nationalised the breweries.

    Hard to say which is more damaging, but Labour Live is certainly more costly.
    Socialism Capitalism in action!
    https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/1007966828851859458


    What is a Power Bank for £9?



    (The value of Barclays Bank after it has been nationalized?)
    A phone charger pack I'd assume. Probably the best priced item of the lot on that list.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    So in summary, JezFest uses volunteer bar staff, sells Chinese tat made in sweat shops at massive margins and it packed full of white middle aged middle class folk.

    Imagine what Jez would be saying if Tories put on a festival like that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:

    I do hope they've all been made in British factories paying a living wage and not using exploited workers as the Fawcett Society did:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/sustainable-fashion-blog/2014/nov/03/feminist-t-shirt-scandal-exposes-entire-system-exploitation-elle-whistles-fawcett-society

    twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1007996672708956162
    At least it isn't a racist mug....
    Ken Livingstone didn't turn up then?
    Don't think they are running a Historical Revisionism tent this year.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,750

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:

    I do hope they've all been made in British factories paying a living wage and not using exploited workers as the Fawcett Society did:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/sustainable-fashion-blog/2014/nov/03/feminist-t-shirt-scandal-exposes-entire-system-exploitation-elle-whistles-fawcett-society

    twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1007996672708956162
    At least it isn't a racist mug....
    Ken Livingstone didn't turn up then?
    Don't think they are running a Historical Revisionism tent this year.
    So none of Corbyn's friends from Iran or Hamas are turning up either?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited June 2018
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:

    I do hope they've all been made in British factories paying a living wage and not using exploited workers as the Fawcett Society did:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/sustainable-fashion-blog/2014/nov/03/feminist-t-shirt-scandal-exposes-entire-system-exploitation-elle-whistles-fawcett-society

    twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1007996672708956162
    At least it isn't a racist mug....
    Ken Livingstone didn't turn up then?
    Don't think they are running a Historical Revisionism tent this year.
    So none of Corbyn's friends from Iran or Hamas are turning up either?
    Another genius bit of timing from JezFest organizers...it was Eid yesterday.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    rcs1000 said:

    Re the Liberals and the EEC: if the former MP for Truro, David Penhaligon had not died in a car crash, and had then followed David Steele as leader of the Liberals, then I think they would have had a somewhat different view. I don't think they would have been outright Eurosceptic, but Europhilia would probably not have been a core policy.

    The LibDems changed from being a party of SW England to a party of SW London.

    I would say SW Sheffield as well but I doubt even Hallam wasn't posh enough for the Cleggs:

    ' Nick Clegg has defended his wife after she was accused of panning Samantha Cameron’s love of Hellmann’s mayonnaise .

    Miriam González Durántez recently had a cookbook published which lifted the lid on the eating habits of Britain’s most powerful politicians.

    One anecdote told how she was taken aback to see Mrs Cameron serve roast chicken on a board with a jar of the mayo at a getting-to-know-you lunch with the Cleggs.

    Ms González Durántez wrote: “Now that I’ve spent years observing how grand people live, I’ve learned the ultimate grand person’s food, found on all the most upper-class tables, is not caviar, truffles, virgin olive oil or fancy cheese. No, it is Hellmann’s mayonnaise.” '

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nick-clegg-defends-wife-after-8759075
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    ydoethur said:

    Ken Livingstone didn't turn up then?

    You know who else organised giant political rallies...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,750

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:

    I do hope they've all been made in British factories paying a living wage and not using exploited workers as the Fawcett Society did:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/sustainable-fashion-blog/2014/nov/03/feminist-t-shirt-scandal-exposes-entire-system-exploitation-elle-whistles-fawcett-society

    twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1007996672708956162
    At least it isn't a racist mug....
    Ken Livingstone didn't turn up then?
    Don't think they are running a Historical Revisionism tent this year.
    So none of Corbyn's friends from Iran or Hamas are turning up either?
    Another genius bit of timing from JezFest organizers...it was Eid yesterday.
    So they are all feasting upon other thoughts?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    So in summary, JezFest uses volunteer bar staff, sells Chinese tat made in sweat shops at massive margins and it packed full of white middle aged middle class folk.

    Imagine what Jez would be saying if Tories put on a festival like that.

    https://twitter.com/KevinMorton1966/status/1008015101805424645
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,750
    Scott_P said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ken Livingstone didn't turn up then?

    You know who else organised giant political rallies...
    *claps*
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Scott_P said:

    So in summary, JezFest uses volunteer bar staff, sells Chinese tat made in sweat shops at massive margins and it packed full of white middle aged middle class folk.

    Imagine what Jez would be saying if Tories put on a festival like that.

    https://twitter.com/KevinMorton1966/status/1008015101805424645
    Well, to be fair, China is a Communist, one party state.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Divvie, good that there's at least a little bit of a silver lining.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    A Labour bear? I mean, what has politics come to?

    If we are going to have political bears, then my suggestions are:

    Rupert Bear for the Tories, he's so dapper, with his checked trousers, scarf, and conventional outlook. And the village of Nutwood must be in Toryshire.

    Paddington Bear for the Greens, he's a migrant. Also, if you want to buy a Paddington Bear, I think he's the most expensive.

    Winnie the Pooh for Labour, I can imagine the bear of very little brain conceiving of, and running, a festival like Labour Live for Eeyore and Tigger. And there is something whimsical about the world of Jeremy Corbyn, his jam-making and his allotment.

    Baloo for UKIP, a huge, irresponsible, sleazy bear.

    And Fozzie Bear for the LibDems. He's sort of a LibDemy-orange in colour, and he's incurably optimistic, though has very little to be optimistic about.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    Jeztival looks like fun...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    A Labour bear? I mean, what has politics come to?

    If we are going to have political bears, then my suggestions are:

    Rupert Bear for the Tories, he's so dapper, with his checked trousers, scarf, and conventional outlook. And the village of Nutwood must be in Toryshire.

    Paddington Bear for the Greens, he's a migrant. Also, if you want to buy a Paddington Bear, I think he's the most expensive.

    Winnie the Pooh for Labour, I can imagine the bear of very little brain conceiving of, and running, a festival like Labour Live for Eeyore and Tigger. And there is something whimsical about the world of Jeremy Corbyn, his jam-making and his allotment.

    Baloo for UKIP, a huge, irresponsible, sleazy bear.

    And Fozzie Bear for the LibDems. He's sort of a LibDemy-orange in colour, and he's incurably optimistic, though has very little to be optimistic about.

    Winner.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    GIN1138 said:

    Jeztival looks like fun...

    Probably more fun than watching England losing in the rugby.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,275

    Where's Labour Live taking place ?

    You thinking of going? :wink:
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    JezzFest has been great fun for PBers whilst we waited for next footy game.

    I heartedly suggest they do it every year.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    edited June 2018
    Erm - how was that a penalty?

    Ah, trailing back leg.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489

    Scott_P said:

    So in summary, JezFest uses volunteer bar staff, sells Chinese tat made in sweat shops at massive margins and it packed full of white middle aged middle class folk.

    Imagine what Jez would be saying if Tories put on a festival like that.

    https://twitter.com/KevinMorton1966/status/1008015101805424645
    Well, to be fair, China is a Communist, one party state.
    LOL
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    A Labour bear? I mean, what has politics come to?

    If we are going to have political bears, then my suggestions are:

    Rupert Bear for the Tories, he's so dapper, with his checked trousers, scarf, and conventional outlook. And the village of Nutwood must be in Toryshire.

    Paddington Bear for the Greens, he's a migrant. Also, if you want to buy a Paddington Bear, I think he's the most expensive.

    Winnie the Pooh for Labour, I can imagine the bear of very little brain conceiving of, and running, a festival like Labour Live for Eeyore and Tigger. And there is something whimsical about the world of Jeremy Corbyn, his jam-making and his allotment.

    Baloo for UKIP, a huge, irresponsible, sleazy bear.

    And Fozzie Bear for the LibDems. He's sort of a LibDemy-orange in colour, and he's incurably optimistic, though has very little to be optimistic about.

    Winner.
    Only works if Paddington's marmalade is organic and from a local farmers market.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Is that a two point conversion for a Peru try ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,750

    A Labour bear? I mean, what has politics come to?

    If we are going to have political bears, then my suggestions are:

    Rupert Bear for the Tories, he's so dapper, with his checked trousers, scarf, and conventional outlook. And the village of Nutwood must be in Toryshire.

    Paddington Bear for the Greens, he's a migrant. Also, if you want to buy a Paddington Bear, I think he's the most expensive.

    Winnie the Pooh for Labour, I can imagine the bear of very little brain conceiving of, and running, a festival like Labour Live for Eeyore and Tigger. And there is something whimsical about the world of Jeremy Corbyn, his jam-making and his allotment.

    Baloo for UKIP, a huge, irresponsible, sleazy bear.

    And Fozzie Bear for the LibDems. He's sort of a LibDemy-orange in colour, and he's incurably optimistic, though has very little to be optimistic about.

    Winner.
    Only works if Paddington's marmalade is organic and from a local farmers market.
    There are local farmers' markets that grow oranges in London?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Mortimer said:

    Erm - how was that a penalty?

    Ah, trailing back leg.

    Good use of technology
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    ydoethur said:

    A Labour bear? I mean, what has politics come to?

    If we are going to have political bears, then my suggestions are:

    Rupert Bear for the Tories, he's so dapper, with his checked trousers, scarf, and conventional outlook. And the village of Nutwood must be in Toryshire.

    Paddington Bear for the Greens, he's a migrant. Also, if you want to buy a Paddington Bear, I think he's the most expensive.

    Winnie the Pooh for Labour, I can imagine the bear of very little brain conceiving of, and running, a festival like Labour Live for Eeyore and Tigger. And there is something whimsical about the world of Jeremy Corbyn, his jam-making and his allotment.

    Baloo for UKIP, a huge, irresponsible, sleazy bear.

    And Fozzie Bear for the LibDems. He's sort of a LibDemy-orange in colour, and he's incurably optimistic, though has very little to be optimistic about.

    Winner.
    Only works if Paddington's marmalade is organic and from a local farmers market.
    There are local farmers' markets that grow oranges in London?
    Climate change, as the Greens keep saying.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    And the day's winning tweet comes in:

    https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/1008024456097300480
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    snap
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,750
    Scott_P said:
    We really wouldn't. We're good, but the EU are still a class apart.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,065
    Pulpstar said:
    It looks like it could be Jezzas #Edstone. Should have pulled the plug a few weeks back.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,750

    ydoethur said:

    A Labour bear? I mean, what has politics come to?

    If we are going to have political bears, then my suggestions are:

    Rupert Bear for the Tories, he's so dapper, with his checked trousers, scarf, and conventional outlook. And the village of Nutwood must be in Toryshire.

    Paddington Bear for the Greens, he's a migrant. Also, if you want to buy a Paddington Bear, I think he's the most expensive.

    Winnie the Pooh for Labour, I can imagine the bear of very little brain conceiving of, and running, a festival like Labour Live for Eeyore and Tigger. And there is something whimsical about the world of Jeremy Corbyn, his jam-making and his allotment.

    Baloo for UKIP, a huge, irresponsible, sleazy bear.

    And Fozzie Bear for the LibDems. He's sort of a LibDemy-orange in colour, and he's incurably optimistic, though has very little to be optimistic about.

    Winner.
    Only works if Paddington's marmalade is organic and from a local farmers market.
    There are local farmers' markets that grow oranges in London?
    Climate change, as the Greens keep saying.
    So it's all been oranged?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Foxy said:

    It looks like it could be Jezzas #Edstone. Should have pulled the plug a few weeks back.

    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1007986188010041344
This discussion has been closed.