Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On Betfair 2018 is once again favourite for TMay’s exit

124»

Comments

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:
    Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.

    Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is a small price to pay, the real cost is hundreds of publicly paid staff, eace dividend is in danger
    Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
    Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern Ireland rather than join the Republic, so reunification would only be in prospect for the Sinn Fein voting Catholic areas on the Northern Irish border with the Republic

    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not that difficult, Northern Ireland hasin the counties which would declare UDI

    Who pays for the police force, who pays the judges, the teachers, theand that is saying something.

    What an absurd question. The DUP already were the largest party in NI pre suspension in charge of NI's infrastructure, domestic policy and executive and with a DUP First Minister

    God bless you!! They were the largest party, not the only one, and did not command close to a majority of the electorate’s votes. I know you dig in rather than admit you’re wrong, but you’re making yourself look a tad foolish here :-D

    In Protestant Ulster the DUP did get a majority of votes actually once you exclude the Catholic border areas

    That, of course, is not the same thing.

    It is when it is Protestant Ulster that would declare UDI not the Catholic counties of Northern Ireland
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    After No 10 slapping down Hague, it sounds like Javid doesn't really much care what No 10 thinks. It should be obvious that there's a real chance that the review might make recommendations that have implications well beyond prescribed medical use.
    It does seem as if he is departing considerably from his predecessors at the Home Office, and is carving out a post Brexit policy platform rather than getting bogged down in the quicksand of Brexit policy.
    Labour will almost certainly go into the GE with legalisation of cannabis in their manifesto which will be a young voter turnout machine. The tories might as well own the inevitable and deny Corbyn the considerable advantage.
    The only danger is if they go full legalization it will scare all those nice middle class yummy mummies and alike, who worry about their kids doing drugs i.e. the kind of folk who turn out for Jezfest.

    I think they will go for the US style for "medical" usage i.e. anybody complains on any sort of pain etc they can get an exemption.
    If it is to be allowed "for medical purposes" then it needs to pass the regulatory hurdles in terms of well designed trials, and licensed indications, with producers responsible for side effects.
    That will take years. I have Crohn’s Disease and there’s some evidence of a clinical benefit of high CBD low THC Cannabis. I can’t wait years, I need to try it now.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:
    Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.

    Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
    Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
    Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern Ireland rather than join the Republic, so reunification would only be in prospect for the Sinn Fein voting Catholic areas on the Northern Irish border with the Republic

    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force and legislature and runs most domestic policy. Smith's Rhodesia did it for years and they were a white minority unlike the Protestant majority in the counties which would declare UDI
    Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
    Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
    But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
    Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg is more likely in the short term but Ulster Protestants will maintain their independence regardless of who is in No 10 and refuse to join the Republic

    Many protestant voters will accept reunification and stay - after all it will require proddy votes to get to a majority in favour. In East Belfast there may well be some trouble. Other protestants will come to the mainland. It’ll be a good way to boost Scotland’s population and will increase the unionist majority there.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:
    Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.

    Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is a small price to pay, the real cost is hundreds of publicly paid staff, working from expensive secure compounds guarded by armed police/security backed up by a system of checkpoints, road controls and armed force.

    we are not talking about a forested track inwho recognises a big peace dividend is in danger
    Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
    Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern Ireland rather than join the Republic, so reunification would only be in prospect for the Sinn Fein voting Catholic areas on the Northern Irish border with the Republic

    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force clare UDI
    Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
    Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
    It isnt UDI in that circumstance, it is a colony.

    It’s also going against a majority vote for reunification. Were the British government to do that we would become an international pariah. What’s more, it is highly unlikely the British electorate would tolerate it.

    An international pariah in the age of Presidents Trump and Putin and Deputy PM Salvini and nationalism sweeping much of the West? No
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited June 2018
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    After No 10 slapping down Hague, it sounds like Javid doesn't really much care what No 10 thinks. It should be obvious that there's a real chance that the review might make recommendations that have implications well beyond prescribed medical use.
    It does seem as if he is departing considerably from his predecessors at the Home Office, and is carving out a post Brexit policy platform rather than getting bogged down in the quicksand of Brexit policy.
    Labour will almost certainly go into the GE with legalisation of cannabis in their manifesto which will be a young voter turnout machine. The tories might as well own the inevitable and deny Corbyn the considerable advantage.
    The only danger is if they go full legalization it will scare all those nice middle class yummy mummies and alike, who worry about their kids doing drugs i.e. the kind of folk who turn out for Jezfest.

    I think they will go for the US style for "medical" usage i.e. anybody complains on any sort of pain etc they can get an exemption.
    If it is to be allowed "for medical purposes" then it needs to pass the regulatory hurdles in terms of well designed trials, and licensed indications, with producers responsible for side effects.
    This is my problem at the moment. We are having a number of these sob stories on, with nice mummies on saying that it helps their kid against x or y, but as the BBC reported yesterday there is no concrete medical evidence that these work (and certainly not in the form they are using them).

    Part of that is due to licensing of trails etc e.g. in the US, it is incredibly difficult to do any research as Cannabis in all forms is still illegal at federal level.

    Sensible thing would be to crack on and do proper trails / testing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:



    Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.

    Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern Ireland rather than join the Republic, so reunification would only be in prospect for the Sinn Fein voting Catholic areas on the Northern Irish border with the Republic

    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force and legislature and runs most domestic policy. Smith's Rhodesia did it for years and they were a white minority unlike the Protestant majority in the counties which would declare UDI

    Who pays for the police force, who pays the judges, the teachers, the doctors, the nurses, and so on? The white minority had full control of all Rhodesian infrastructure. The unionist minority who chose UDI would have no such control in NI. This is quite possibly the most ludicrous assertion I have ever read on here - and that is saying something.

    What an absurd question. The DUP already were the largest party in NI pre suspension in charge of NI's infrastructure, domestic policy and executive and with a DUP First Minister
    Riiiight. And who has control of it now? Or of the army, which in the final analysis is critical?

    But before you get there, how would a UDI government pay for anything? Where would its money come from? Who would collect it? How?
    The British Army has long had some sympathy with ultra loyalists in Northern Ireland.

    Northern Ireland could raise taxes from its population as now
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881
    Dura_Ace said:



    The only danger is if they go full legalization it will scare all those nice middle class yummy mummies and alike, who worry about their kids doing drugs i.e. the kind of folk who turn out for Jezfest.

    They aren't going to switch their vote for the Conservative and Upskirt Party over it though are they? A manifesto commitment to legalisation has no negatives for Labour.
    Could probably earn the Chancellor a few billion quid in taxes and reduced policing/justice costs too.

    Labour need a few tax rises that are broadly popular, and this new source of revenue could be one of them. Changing pension relief for high earner is another no brainer to raise money and distinguish themselves from the Tories.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979
    Good for Anna. I hope the police go after those who threaten death with the full force of the law and hang them out to dry. I'm glad it is making Anna more resolute. I hope it is with the others too.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:
    Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.

    Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is a small price to pay, the real cost is hundreds of publicly paid staff, eace dividend is in danger
    Yep. But tbf people whodon't understand and probably never will.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
    Long term (And probably long he best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Prot Irish border with the Republic

    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not that difficult, Northern Ireland hasin the counties which would declare UDI

    Who pays for the police force, who pays the judges, the teachers, theand that is saying something.

    What an absurd question. The DUP already were the largest party in NI pre suspension in charge of NI's infrastructure, domestic policy and executive and with a DUP First Minister

    God bless you!! They were the largest party, not the only one, and did not command close to a majority of the electorate’s votes. I know you dig in rather than admit you’re wrong, but you’re making yourself look a tad foolish here :-D

    In Protestant Ulster the DUPatholic border areas

    That, of course, is not the same thing.

    It is when it is Protestant Ulster that would declare UDI not the Catholic counties of Northern Ireland

    There can be no reunification without protestant votes in favour. Your assumption that all those voting against are not democrats is an interesting one, as is your belief that a protestant minority has the financial means to sustain an illegal statelet in isolation from the rest of the world. Still, if you want to believe all this, so be it and God bless you!!

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,724
    edited June 2018
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:



    Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.

    Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern Ireland rather than join the Republic, so reunification would only be in prospect for the Sinn Fein voting Catholic areas on the Northern Irish border with the Republic

    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force and legislature and runs most domestic policy. Smith's Rhodesia did it for years and they were a white minority unlike the Protestant majority in the counties which would declare UDI

    Who pays for the police force, who pays the judges, the teachers, the doctors, the nurses, and so on? The white minority had full control of all Rhodesian infrastructure. The unionist minority who chose UDI would have no such control in NI. This is quite possibly the most ludicrous assertion I have ever read on here - and that is saying something.

    What an absurd question. The DUP already were the largest party in NI pre suspension in charge of NI's infrastructure, domestic policy and executive and with a DUP First Minister
    Riiiight. And who has control of it now? Or of the army, which in the final analysis is critical?

    But before you get there, how would a UDI government pay for anything? Where would its money come from? Who would collect it? How?
    The British Army has long had some sympathy with ultra loyalists in Northern Ireland.

    Northern Ireland could raise taxes from its population as now
    Such elements in the British Army were a significant part of the reason a United Ireland didn't get a parliament in 1913.
    The Curragh mutineers should have been dismissed the service.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,724
    Barnesian said:

    Good for Anna. I hope the police go after those who threaten death with the full force of the law and hang them out to dry. I'm glad it is making Anna more resolute. I hope it is with the others too.
    Hurrah for the Blackshirts???????
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:



    Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.

    Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern Ireland rather than join the Republic, so reunification would only be in prospect for the Sinn Fein voting Catholic areas on the Northern Irish border with the Republic

    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force and legislature and runs most domestic policy. Smith's Rhodesia did it for years and they were a white minority unlike the Protestant majority in the counties which would declare UDI

    Who pays for the police force, who paysething.

    What an absurd question. The DUP already were the largest party in NI pre suspension in charge of NI's infrastructure, domestic policy and executive and with a DUP First Minister
    Riiiight. And who has control of it now? Or of the army, which in the final analysis is critical?

    But before you get there, how would a UDI government pay for anything? Where would its money come from? Who would collect it? How?
    The British Army has long had some sympathy with ultra loyalists in Northern Ireland.

    Northern Ireland could raise taxes from its population as now

    So a coup backed by the British Army. Of course, why didn’t I think of that??!!

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited June 2018

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:
    Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.

    Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
    Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
    Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern
    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force and legislature and runs most domestic policy. Smith's Rhodesia did it for years and they were a white minority unlike the Protestant majority in the counties which would declare UDI
    Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
    Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
    But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
    Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg

    Many protestant voters will accept reunification and stay - after all it will require proddy votes to get to a majority in favour. In East Belfast there may well be some trouble. Other protestants will come to the mainland. It’ll be a good way to boost Scotland’s population and will increase the unionist majority there.

    It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.

    Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a comfortable majority in the Protestant counties will almost certainly vote to stay in the UK
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:
    Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.

    Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is a small price to pay, the real cost is hundreds of publicly paid staff, eace dividend is in danger
    Yep. But tbf people whodon't understand and probably never will.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
    Long term (And probably long he best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Prot Irish border with the Republic

    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not that difficult, Northern Ireland hasin the counties which would declare UDI

    Who pays for the police force, who pays the judges, the teachers, theand that is saying something.

    What an absurd question. The DUP already were the largest party in NI pre suspension in charge of NI's infrastructure, domestic policy and executive and with a DUP First Minister

    God bless you!! They were the largest party, not the only one, and did not comm
    In Protestant Ulster the DUPatholic border areas

    That, of course, is not the same thing.

    It is when it is Protestant Ulster that would declare UDI not the Catholic counties of Northern Ireland

    There can be no reunification without protestant votes in favour. Your assumption that all those voting against are not democrats is an interesting one, as is your belief that a protestant minority has the financial means to sustain an illegal statelet in isolation from the rest of the world. Still, if you want to believe all this, so be it and God bless you!!

    About 90% of DUP and UUP voters want to stay in the UK even in Ashcroft's poll today
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:
    Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.

    Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
    Yep. Bwill.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
    Long suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern
    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not declare UDI
    Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
    Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
    But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
    Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg

    Many here.

    It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.

    Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK

    And they will be the minority overall. If you believe that they will then launch a coup d'etat with the help of the British army and build an illegal, isolated mini-state that is unable to support itself I think you and I will just have to agree to disagree. But thanks for the entertainment ;-)

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,724
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:
    Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
    Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
    Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern
    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force and legislature and runs most domestic policy. Smith's Rhodesia did it for years and they were a white minority unlike the Protestant majority in the counties which would declare UDI
    Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
    Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
    But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
    Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg

    Many protestant voters will accept reunification and stay - after all it will require proddy votes to get to a majority in favour. In East Belfast there may well be some trouble. Other protestants will come to the mainland. It’ll be a good way to boost Scotland’s population and will increase the unionist majority there.

    It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.

    Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK
    But if Scotland can't stay in the EU, why should the Protestant counties be 'allowed' to stay out of the RoI?
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    edited June 2018
    Barnesian said:

    Good for Anna. I hope the police go after those who threaten death with the full force of the law and hang them out to dry. I'm glad it is making Anna more resolute. I hope it is with the others too.
    I think Soubry is increasingly seeing her herself as some kind of reverse Boudicca destined to be in the history books saving the UK from itself.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,547
    HYUFD said:


    It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.

    Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK

    A majority in NI voted to stay in the EU but they are going to have withdrawal imposed anyway. The same would happen to opponents of unification if a majority voted for it.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:
    Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.

    Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is a small price to pay, the real cost is hundreds of publicly paid staff, eace dividend is in danger
    Yep. But tbf people whodon't understand and probably never will.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
    Long term (And probably long he best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Prot Irish border with the Republic

    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not that difficult, Northern Ireland hasin the counties which would declare UDI

    Who pays for the police force, who pays the judges, the teachers, theand that is saying something.

    What an absurd question. The DUP already were the largest party in NI pre suspension in charge of NI's infrastructure, domestic policy and executive and with a DUP First Minister

    God bless you!! They were the largest party, not the only one, and did not comm
    In Protestant Ulster the DUPatholic border areas

    That, of course, is not the same thing.

    It is when it is Protestant Ulster that would declare UDI not the Catholic counties of Northern Ireland

    There bless you!!

    About 90% of DUP and UUP voters want to stay in the UK even in Ashcroft's poll today

    There is a huge leap from there to them becoming anti-democrats prepared to enlist the British army to institute a coup d'etat to create an illegal state that would not be part of the UK.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:
    Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.

    Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
    Yep. Bwill.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
    Long suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern
    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not declare UDI
    Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
    Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
    But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
    Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg

    Many here.

    It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.

    Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK

    And they will be the minority overall. If you believe that they will then launch a coup d'etat with the help of the British army and build an illegal, isolated mini-state that is unable to support itself I think you and I will just have to agree to disagree. But thanks for the entertainment ;-)

    The DUP, comfortably the largest Protestant Party, will certainly build their own state in Protestant Ulster and it would be no more illegal thsn any other state where a majority of people within it support its existence
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:
    Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
    Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
    Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern
    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force and legislature and runs most domestic policy. Smith's Rhodesia did it for years and they were a white minority unlike the Protestant majority in the counties which would declare UDI
    Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
    Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
    But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
    Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg

    Many protestant voters will accept reunification and stay - after all it will require proddy votes

    It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.

    Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK
    But if Scotland can't stay in the EU, why should the Protestant counties be 'allowed' to stay out of the RoI?
    As Scotland voted in 2014 to stay in the UK and in 2017 63% of Scots voted for Unionist parties despite Brexit
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:


    It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.

    Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK

    A majority in NI voted to stay in the EU but they are going to have withdrawal imposed anyway. The same would happen to opponents of unification if a majority voted for it.
    No as most in NI put staying in the UK first currently
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:
    Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.

    Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is a small price to pay, the real cost is hundreds of publicly paid staff, eace dividend is in danger
    Yep. But tbf people whodon't understand and probably never will.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
    Long term (And probably long he best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Prot Irish border with the Republic

    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not that difficult, Northern Ireland hasin the counties which would declare UDI

    Who pays for the police force, who pays the judges, the teachers, theand that is saying something.

    What an absurd question. The DUP already xecutive and with a DUP First Minister

    God bless you!! They were the largest party, not the only one, and did not comm
    In Protestant Ulster the DUPatholic border areas

    That, of course, is not the same thing.

    It is when it is Protestant Ulster that would declare UDI not the Catholic counties of Northern Ireland

    There bless you!!

    About 90% of DUP and UUP voters want to stay in the UK even in Ashcroft's poll today

    There is a huge leap from there to them becoming anti-democrats prepared to enlist the British army to institute a coup d'etat to create an illegal state that would not be part of the UK.

    Don't forget the UDI state would have the reformed loyalist paramilitaries if needed too
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,669
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:
    Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.

    Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
    Yep. Bwill.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
    Long suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern
    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not declare UDI
    Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
    Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
    But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
    Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg

    Many here.

    It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.

    Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK

    And they will be the minority overall. If you believe that they will then launch a coup d'etat with the help of the British army and build an illegal, isolated mini-state that is unable to support itself I think you and I will just have to agree to disagree. But thanks for the entertainment ;-)

    The DUP, comfortably the largest Protestant Party, will certainly build their own state in Protestant Ulster and it would be no more illegal thsn any other state where a majority of people within it support its existence
    The IRA and UVF would be back, surely nobody wants that?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Meanwhile, on to more important matters, poor old Meghan Markle looks shell shocked. You've got to feel for her.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Oh dear, Australia used up their review already...never mind....
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile, on to more important matters, poor old Meghan Markle looks shell shocked. You've got to feel for her.

    Got to meet the family?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:
    Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.

    Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
    Yep. Bwill.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
    Long suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern
    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not declare UDI
    Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
    Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
    But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
    Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg

    Many here.

    It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.

    Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK

    And they will be the minority overall. If you believe that they will ks for the entertainment ;-)

    The DUP, comfortably the largest Protestant Party, will certainly build their own state in Protestant Ulster and it would be no more illegal thsn any other state where a majority of people within it support its existence
    The IRA and UVF would be back, surely nobody wants that?
    Well if Barnier wants to poke a stick in the hornets nest of Northern Ireland and force a hard border or BINO choice so be it
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    Looking how quickly this discussion of marijuana laws has come from nowhere, I think it is likely now only a short wait till it is legal here int he UK.

    Maybe medical first then full legalization, possibly with a period of decriminalization before that.

    ones people see that legal marijuana does not mean that the sky falls in, opinion changes quickly, I see that even in the US state of Texas, 80% of republicans are now for decriminalization.

    https://reason.com/blog/2018/06/18/texas-gop-endorses-marijuana-decriminali
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Roger said:

    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile, on to more important matters, poor old Meghan Markle looks shell shocked. You've got to feel for her.

    Got to meet the family?
    Travelling down the middle of the course at Ascot I mean I know she's a glamorous Hollywood actress but this must be mind-blowing for her, and it shows.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:
    Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.

    Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
    Yep. Bwill.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
    Long suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern
    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not declare UDI
    Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
    Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
    But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
    Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg

    Many here.

    It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.

    Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK

    And they will be the minority overall. If you believe that they will then launch a coup d'etat with the help of the British army and build an illegal, isolated mini-state that is unable to support itself I think you and I will just have to agree to disagree. But thanks for the entertainment ;-)

    The DUP, comfortably the largest Protestant Party, will certainly build their own state in Protestant Ulster and it would be no more illegal thsn any other state where a majority of people within it support its existence

    There’s digging down and there’s digging down. This is epic!!!

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:
    Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.

    Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is a small price to pay, the real cost is hundreds of publicly paid staff, eace dividend is in danger
    Yep. But tbf people whodon't understand and probably never will.

    They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
    Long term (And probably long he best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Prot Irish border with the Republic

    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not that difficult, Northern Ireland hasin the counties which would declare UDI

    Who pays for the pol, theand that is saying something.

    What an absurd question. Theer

    God bless you!! They were the largest party, not the only one, and did not comm
    In Protestant Ulster the DUPatholic border areas

    That, of course, is not the same thing.

    It is when it is Protestant Ulster that would declare UDI not the Catholic counties of Northern Ireland

    There bless you!!

    About 90% of DUP and UUP voters want to stay in the UK even in Ashcroft's poll today

    There is a huge leap from there to them becoming anti-democrats prepared to enlist the British army to institute a coup d'etat to create an illegal state that would not be part of the UK.

    Don't forget the UDI state would have the reformed loyalist paramilitaries if needed too
    Perhaps Pauline Hanson could launch a coup in Queensland and declare UDI to give them some international backing?
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    Barnesian said:

    Good for Anna. I hope the police go after those who threaten death with the full force of the law and hang them out to dry. I'm glad it is making Anna more resolute. I hope it is with the others too.
    I think we should all be able to agree that death threats are despicable and those issuing them should go to jail.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038
    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile, on to more important matters, poor old Meghan Markle looks shell shocked. You've got to feel for her.

    At what?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Going to be a lot of runs in the cricket today.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:



    Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.

    The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern Ireland rather than join the Republic, so reunification would only be in prospect for the Sinn Fein voting Catholic areas on the Northern Irish border with the Republic

    How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?

    Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force and legislature and runs most domestic policy. Smith's Rhodesia did it for years and they were a white minority unlike the Protestant majority in the counties which would declare UDI

    Who pays for the police force, who pays the judges, the teachers, the doctors, the nurses, and so on? The white minority had full control of all Rhodesian infrastructure. The unionist minority who chose UDI would have no such control in NI. This is quite possibly the most ludicrous assertion I have ever read on here - and that is saying something.

    What an absurd question. The DUP already were the largest party in NI pre suspension in charge of NI's infrastructure, domestic policy and executive and with a DUP First Minister
    Riiiight. And who has control of it now? Or of the army, which in the final analysis is critical?

    But before you get there, how would a UDI government pay for anything? Where would its money come from? Who would collect it? How?
    The British Army has long had some sympathy with ultra loyalists in Northern Ireland.

    Northern Ireland could raise taxes from its population as now
    Let's ignore your comment on the army, not because you're right but because it's not provable, and just concentrate on the taxes.

    Sure, *in time* a UDI state could raise taxes. Obviously, it couldn't easily raise as much as is spent by the state there now because of the huge subsidies from London, as well as due to the disruption to the economy, but it could raise some.

    But in the shorter term - certainly months, probably years - how does it do that in practice, without access to the computer systems, other hard infrastructure and personnel that currently run tax collection? And without money, how does it pay its staff?
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,669
    HYUFD completely out on a limb today.
    Looked at the electoral map of Northern Ireland and said why not carve off a few of the Green counties.
    The Catholic and Protestant populations are nowhere near as clear cut as that map would lead you believe - and what about Belfast.
    I lived in a small town miles from the border and had Catholic and Protestant friends, who would be amazed to hear such simplistic assertions.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    TOPPING said:

    Roger said:

    TOPPING said:

    Meanwhile, on to more important matters, poor old Meghan Markle looks shell shocked. You've got to feel for her.

    Got to meet the family?
    Travelling down the middle of the course at Ascot I mean I know she's a glamorous Hollywood actress but this must be mind-blowing for her, and it shows.
    She looks happy enough:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5860911/Prince-Harry-Meghan-Markle-join-Queen-Royal-Ascot.html
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    A coup d'etat in Northern Ireland launched by anti-democratic protestants with the help of the British army to create an illegal state that would not have the means to support itself - and all the fault of Michel Barnier. Wonderful stuff ;-D
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    HYUFD completely out on a limb today.
    Looked at the electoral map of Northern Ireland and said why not carve off a few of the Green counties.
    The Catholic and Protestant populations are nowhere near as clear cut as that map would lead you believe - and what about Belfast.
    I lived in a small town miles from the border and had Catholic and Protestant friends, who would be amazed to hear such simplistic assertions.

    By HYUFD's logic all of Scotland voted Remain and must be part of the EU.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Plus what has Northern Ireland brought to the mainland apart from bigotry, terrorism, bombs, death, and the regeneration of Manchester?

    Seamus Heaney.

    Struggling a bit beyond that, though. Van Morrison is decidedly not a plus point.
    AP McCoy. Alex Higgins, George Best and Mary Peters for older readers.
    Northern Ireland have giving Britain some of the best soldiers and military leaders that have defended this countries freedom.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2018
    Has William Hague read articles like this?

    "The relationship between cannabis use and risk of developing symptoms of psychosis has been well established in many different review articles.

    This research has found that early and frequent cannabis use is a component cause of psychosis, which interacts with other risk factors such as family history of psychosis, history of childhood abuse and expression of the COMT and AKT1 genes. These interactions make it difficult to determine the exact role of cannabis use in causing psychosis that may not have otherwise occurred."


    https://ndarc.med.unsw.edu.au/blog/does-cannabis-cause-mental-illness
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited June 2018
    It appears that it is a lot harder to get a Polish builder to come and do some work than one thought,

    Just 7% of construction workers in the UK are from the EU

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5860435/ONS-7-construction-workers-UK-EU.html
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. JS, I remember reading about that at university.

    A problem when considering courses of action is that current benefits can be underestimated, and future positives can be exaggerated (even unknowingly, because predicting outcomes is complicated). It's the flip side of the ephemeral support for change because it's purely theoretical versus entrenched opposition from those who benefit from/support the status quo.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    AndyJS said:

    Has William Hague read articles like this?

    "The relationship between cannabis use and risk of developing symptoms of psychosis has been well established in many different review articles.

    This research has found that early and frequent cannabis use is a component cause of psychosis, which interacts with other risk factors such as family history of psychosis, history of childhood abuse and expression of the COMT and AKT1 genes. These interactions make it difficult to determine the exact role of cannabis use in causing psychosis that may not have otherwise occurred."


    https://ndarc.med.unsw.edu.au/blog/does-cannabis-cause-mental-illness

    It's almost like people with psychological problems self-medicate with cannabis.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,981

    Plus what has Northern Ireland brought to the mainland apart from bigotry, terrorism, bombs, death, and the regeneration of Manchester?

    Seamus Heaney.

    Struggling a bit beyond that, though. Van Morrison is decidedly not a plus point.
    AP McCoy. Alex Higgins, George Best and Mary Peters for older readers.
    Northern Ireland have giving Britain some of the best soldiers and military leaders that have defended this countries freedom.
    Name them.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401

    Plus what has Northern Ireland brought to the mainland apart from bigotry, terrorism, bombs, death, and the regeneration of Manchester?

    Seamus Heaney.

    Struggling a bit beyond that, though. Van Morrison is decidedly not a plus point.
    AP McCoy. Alex Higgins, George Best and Mary Peters for older readers.
    Three out of four there. Alex Higgins only ever won one ranking tournament in his career - a greatly overrated player.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Alistair, just checked and cannabis can cause paranoia, addiction, and contribute to respiratory disease [Biological Psychology: An Introduction to Behavioral[sp] and Cognitive Neuroscience, by Rosenzweig et al].
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,669

    Mr. Alistair, just checked and cannabis can cause paranoia, addiction, and contribute to respiratory disease [Biological Psychology: An Introduction to Behavioral[sp] and Cognitive Neuroscience, by Rosenzweig et al].

    Similar in some respects to alcohol and tobacco then?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    AndyJS said:

    "Britain Elects
    @britainelects

    Scottish Parliament voting intention(s):

    Constituency vote:

    SNP: 40% (-7)
    CON: 28% (+6)
    LAB: 24% (+1)
    LDEM: 6% (-2)

    --

    List vote:

    SNP: 36% (-6)
    CON: 26% (+3)
    LAB: 23% (+4)
    LDEM: 6% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @Panelbase, 08 - 13 Jun
    Chgs. w/ 2016 result"

    Klaxon :smiley:
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879

    Plus what has Northern Ireland brought to the mainland apart from bigotry, terrorism, bombs, death, and the regeneration of Manchester?

    Seamus Heaney.

    Struggling a bit beyond that, though. Van Morrison is decidedly not a plus point.
    AP McCoy. Alex Higgins, George Best and Mary Peters for older readers.
    Three out of four there. Alex Higgins only ever won one ranking tournament in his career - a greatly overrated player.

    Higgins was world champion twice, wasn’t he?

  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Britain Elects
    @britainelects

    Scottish Parliament voting intention(s):

    Constituency vote:

    SNP: 40% (-7)
    CON: 28% (+6)
    LAB: 24% (+1)
    LDEM: 6% (-2)

    --

    List vote:

    SNP: 36% (-6)
    CON: 26% (+3)
    LAB: 23% (+4)
    LDEM: 6% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @Panelbase, 08 - 13 Jun
    Chgs. w/ 2016 result"

    Klaxon :smiley:
    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Britain Elects
    @britainelects

    Scottish Parliament voting intention(s):

    Constituency vote:

    SNP: 40% (-7)
    CON: 28% (+6)
    LAB: 24% (+1)
    LDEM: 6% (-2)

    --

    List vote:

    SNP: 36% (-6)
    CON: 26% (+3)
    LAB: 23% (+4)
    LDEM: 6% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @Panelbase, 08 - 13 Jun
    Chgs. w/ 2016 result"

    Klaxon :smiley:
    So much for Indy, eh? Rejoice. Brexit has secured the Union more than Membership of the EU did...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Song, indeed, tobacco is specifically cited alongside the respiratory aspect.

    However, if we discovered tobacco today, would it not be criminalised as an addictive and harmful substance?
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Plus what has Northern Ireland brought to the mainland apart from bigotry, terrorism, bombs, death, and the regeneration of Manchester?

    Seamus Heaney.

    Struggling a bit beyond that, though. Van Morrison is decidedly not a plus point.
    AP McCoy. Alex Higgins, George Best and Mary Peters for older readers.
    Northern Ireland have giving Britain some of the best soldiers and military leaders that have defended this countries freedom.
    Name them.
    Just from top of my head in ww2

    Brooke,Alexander and Monty with Ulster ancestry plus one of our best ww2 admirals in Cunningham (Irish )
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    If only the Unionists had settled for 4 counties rather than 6. Add a population exchange and the matter would have been settled for good.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    I do not know the method of drawing up an indictment against a whole people, and anyway are we all comfortable with questions of the form "Plus what has [ethnic group x] brought to the [UK] apart from bigotry, terrorism, bombs, death, and the regeneration of Manchester?" Just change that to degeneration and stick it in the comments on Guido. They'll love it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,981
    edited June 2018

    Plus what has Northern Ireland brought to the mainland apart from bigotry, terrorism, bombs, death, and the regeneration of Manchester?

    Seamus Heaney.

    Struggling a bit beyond that, though. Van Morrison is decidedly not a plus point.
    AP McCoy. Alex Higgins, George Best and Mary Peters for older readers.
    Northern Ireland have giving Britain some of the best soldiers and military leaders that have defended this countries freedom.
    Name them.
    Just from top of my head in ww2

    Brooke,Alexander and Monty with Ulster ancestry plus one of our best ww2 admirals in Cunningham (Irish )
    Brookie was French. The other two were born in England.

    They were civilised.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    A coup d'etat in Northern Ireland launched by anti-democratic protestants with the help of the British army to create an illegal state that would not have the means to support itself - and all the fault of Michel Barnier. Wonderful stuff ;-D

    There is a wider point that does arise here , and which particularly occurred to me in the context of the Independence Referendum in Scotland in 2014.
    If we accept that Scotland has the right to become Independent of the UK then why would it be unreasonable for some parts of Scotland to seek Independence from Scotland? That point has been made in the past re-the Orkneys & Shetlands but it could have wider application to - say - the border areas such as Dumfries - Berwickshire etc.
    Similarly were Wales to vote for Independence, there might well be areas which would prefer to be no longer part of Wales - I think of Monmouthshire - Pembrokeshire - Flintshire etc.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    The greatest Ulsterman who has ever lived was Lord Kelvin, but then he escaped at the age of 9.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,669

    Mr. Song, indeed, tobacco is specifically cited alongside the respiratory aspect.

    However, if we discovered tobacco today, would it not be criminalised as an addictive and harmful substance?

    Yes, but is it likely to be criminalised as things stand?
    Almost certainly not, because it is in such wide use and would make criminals of many people and make openings for criminal gangs.
    Now, ask yourself whether marijuana is in wide use now and whether those same arguments apply.
    Of course, health campaigns should be run for all harmful substances, such as alcohol, tobacco, prescription opoids and indeed marijuana.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,981
    I had tickets to today’s ODI.

    Blasted sciatica.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,981

    NEW THREAD

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    Mr. Song, indeed, tobacco is specifically cited alongside the respiratory aspect.

    However, if we discovered tobacco today, would it not be criminalised as an addictive and harmful substance?

    Yes, but is it likely to be criminalised as things stand?
    Almost certainly not, because it is in such wide use and would make criminals of many people and make openings for criminal gangs.
    Now, ask yourself whether marijuana is in wide use now and whether those same arguments apply.
    Of course, health campaigns should be run for all harmful substances, such as alcohol, tobacco, prescription opoids and indeed marijuana.
    Paracetamol can kill you with a not-so-significantly high dose.

    Every substance can cause problems if abused.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Britain Elects
    @britainelects

    Scottish Parliament voting intention(s):

    Constituency vote:

    SNP: 40% (-7)
    CON: 28% (+6)
    LAB: 24% (+1)
    LDEM: 6% (-2)

    --

    List vote:

    SNP: 36% (-6)
    CON: 26% (+3)
    LAB: 23% (+4)
    LDEM: 6% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @Panelbase, 08 - 13 Jun
    Chgs. w/ 2016 result"

    Klaxon :smiley:
    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Britain Elects
    @britainelects

    Scottish Parliament voting intention(s):

    Constituency vote:

    SNP: 40% (-7)
    CON: 28% (+6)
    LAB: 24% (+1)
    LDEM: 6% (-2)

    --

    List vote:

    SNP: 36% (-6)
    CON: 26% (+3)
    LAB: 23% (+4)
    LDEM: 6% (+1)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    via @Panelbase, 08 - 13 Jun
    Chgs. w/ 2016 result"

    Klaxon :smiley:
    So much for Indy, eh? Rejoice. Brexit has secured the Union more than Membership of the EU did...
    Polling taken before events.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704

    Mr. Song, indeed, tobacco is specifically cited alongside the respiratory aspect.

    However, if we discovered tobacco today, would it not be criminalised as an addictive and harmful substance?

    Yes, but is it likely to be criminalised as things stand?
    Almost certainly not, because it is in such wide use and would make criminals of many people and make openings for criminal gangs.
    Now, ask yourself whether marijuana is in wide use now and whether those same arguments apply.
    Of course, health campaigns should be run for all harmful substances, such as alcohol, tobacco, prescription opoids and indeed marijuana.
    It's an interesting chain of events. Attitudes towards Tobacco and Alcohol are hardening on public health grounds, yet at the same time attitudes towards drugs currently illegal are softening.

    At some point, they have to meet in the middle.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Plus what has Northern Ireland brought to the mainland apart from bigotry, terrorism, bombs, death, and the regeneration of Manchester?

    Seamus Heaney.

    Struggling a bit beyond that, though. Van Morrison is decidedly not a plus point.
    AP McCoy. Alex Higgins, George Best and Mary Peters for older readers.
    Northern Ireland have giving Britain some of the best soldiers and military leaders that have defended this countries freedom.
    Name them.
    Just from top of my head in ww2

    Brooke,Alexander and Monty with Ulster ancestry plus one of our best ww2 admirals in Cunningham (Irish )
    Brookie was French. The other two were born in England.

    They were civilised.
    And if it wasn't for the northern Ireland ancestry with our United kingdom,we wouldn't have seen they great service to our country .
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,590

    Mr. Song, indeed, tobacco is specifically cited alongside the respiratory aspect.

    However, if we discovered tobacco today, would it not be criminalised as an addictive and harmful substance?

    It's almost as though no one has done comparative risk assessments...
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4311234/
This discussion has been closed.