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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Older voters more likely to back legalisation of cannabis for

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Boooooooooo
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,669
    Make it legal so she can try some, might help the negotiations.
    Give some to JRM too.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    100 for Hales. Not the best stroke to get it though!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Make it legal so she can try some, might help the negotiations.
    Give some to JRM too.
    Not to JC though, he has enough crazy ideas as it is.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    100 for Hales. Not the best stroke to get it though!

    All count the same.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Boris Becker business just gets weirder....

    Boris Becker's diplomatic passport is a 'fake', the Central African Republic (CAR) said today after the tennis star claimed it entitles him to immunity in bankruptcy proceedings in Britain.

    The 50-year-old's passport's serial number corresponds to one from a batch of 'new passports that were stolen in 2014', according to the CAR Foreign Ministry.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,793
    Pity we can't declare in order to make it a contest.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557

    Splits emerging in Merkels party as Berlin CDU side with CSU and tell Merkel to make concessions


    Spliffs emerging in May’s...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Urquhart, hmm. That is very peculiar.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    Credit to the Aussies they're not giving up, nor are heads going down.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,793
    On the old DLS Standard Table, par score from here is 507...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,758

    Credit to the Aussies they're not giving up, nor are heads going down.

    Slower balls and full. Taking pace off is going to be absolutely key here. 450 looking quite far off now. Still a hell of a score though.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,793

    On the old DLS Standard Table, par score from here is 507...

    (That said, I think the algorithm they used is a bit questionable when you get to these extremes)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    DavidL said:

    Credit to the Aussies they're not giving up, nor are heads going down.

    Slower balls and full. Taking pace off is going to be absolutely key here. 450 looking quite far off now. Still a hell of a score though.
    I don’t know, 100 off the last 10 is just par these days.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,392
    But has she even run through a field of dope?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    edited June 2018

    But has she even run through a field of dope?
    Dopes yes. Doesn't really sound to have had a fun time at Uni!
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    DavidL said:

    This is absolute carnage. 304 in the 33rd over. It's cricket Jim, but not as we know it.

    Surely we can't tell whether it's carnage until the other side get to see what they can do? Might be carnage the other way?

    (Thanks for mentioning you're talking about cricket. There seem to be so many sports going on at the moment that I'm finding the commentaries on here a bit confusing.)

    Good evening, everybody.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    FPT:

    It's an interesting chain of events. Attitudes towards Tobacco and Alcohol are hardening on public health grounds, yet at the same time attitudes towards drugs currently illegal are softening.

    At some point, they have to meet in the middle.

    Are attitudes towards alcohol hardening with the public ?
    I think it certainly is with young people, aren't they drinking less?

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/datablog/2017/may/06/more-than-a-quarter-of-young-adults-in-the-uk-do-not-drink-alcohol-in-data
    That's due to more furreners and virtue signalling class warriors.

    Heaven help us when this generation get to 40 and figure out they wasted their youth on twitter instead of getting blasted and laid.

    I’m seeing this more often: older people concerned younger people aren’t having sex and getting drunk enough. Odd.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,758
    AnneJGP said:

    DavidL said:

    This is absolute carnage. 304 in the 33rd over. It's cricket Jim, but not as we know it.

    Surely we can't tell whether it's carnage until the other side get to see what they can do? Might be carnage the other way?

    (Thanks for mentioning you're talking about cricket. There seem to be so many sports going on at the moment that I'm finding the commentaries on here a bit confusing.)

    Good evening, everybody.
    This is going to be by far England's highest ever score. Its a very fast scoring ground and Finch on this is going to be terrifying but wow, this is brutal. Morgan has accelerated England towards the record with the fastest 50 by an Englishman ever.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    I am surprised that the young are less likely to support. Once again I know nothing.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    DavidL said:

    This is absolute carnage. 304 in the 33rd over. It's cricket Jim, but not as we know it.

    Surely we can't tell whether it's carnage until the other side get to see what they can do? Might be carnage the other way?

    (Thanks for mentioning you're talking about cricket. There seem to be so many sports going on at the moment that I'm finding the commentaries on here a bit confusing.)

    Good evening, everybody.
    This is going to be by far England's highest ever score. Its a very fast scoring ground and Finch on this is going to be terrifying but wow, this is brutal. Morgan has accelerated England towards the record with the fastest 50 by an Englishman ever.
    Anyone's highest ever score, given England already hold the world record of 444.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,758

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    DavidL said:

    This is absolute carnage. 304 in the 33rd over. It's cricket Jim, but not as we know it.

    Surely we can't tell whether it's carnage until the other side get to see what they can do? Might be carnage the other way?

    (Thanks for mentioning you're talking about cricket. There seem to be so many sports going on at the moment that I'm finding the commentaries on here a bit confusing.)

    Good evening, everybody.
    This is going to be by far England's highest ever score. Its a very fast scoring ground and Finch on this is going to be terrifying but wow, this is brutal. Morgan has accelerated England towards the record with the fastest 50 by an Englishman ever.
    Anyone's highest ever score, given England already hold the world record of 444.
    Indeed.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    edited June 2018
    England now hold the record for the highest 50 over score. To be fair, as Ms Anne JGP posted, we've yet to bowl on this!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Do those who do the out-group signalling and insults know how they come across to those who aren't in their in-group? Or even to some (many?) of those who are in their in-group?

    Whenever I see the words: "traitor", "xenophobe", "Remoaner", "liar", or similar (from either side), I assume the comment is content-free and it's just a toddler-tantrum and skip to the next one.

    If the intent is to persuade others or change opinions, it truly is an utter failure. If it's just to pleasure oneself and/or signal what a reliable chap(ess) someone is to others on "their side", I suppose it's effective, but it doesn't half swamp the meaningful signal with pointless noise.

    Well said.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Crazy cricket. Who'd be a bowler these days?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    Senegal 2 Poland 0
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    kle4 said:

    Crazy cricket. Who'd be a bowler these days?

    250 used to be regarded as a good score in one day internationals.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    500 still on....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Good evening, Miss JGP.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,758
    kle4 said:

    Do those who do the out-group signalling and insults know how they come across to those who aren't in their in-group? Or even to some (many?) of those who are in their in-group?

    Whenever I see the words: "traitor", "xenophobe", "Remoaner", "liar", or similar (from either side), I assume the comment is content-free and it's just a toddler-tantrum and skip to the next one.

    If the intent is to persuade others or change opinions, it truly is an utter failure. If it's just to pleasure oneself and/or signal what a reliable chap(ess) someone is to others on "their side", I suppose it's effective, but it doesn't half swamp the meaningful signal with pointless noise.

    Well said.
    Absolutely.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    India A must be miffed, only holding the record for a few hours !
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    Pulpstar said:

    India A must be miffed, only holding the record for a few hours !

    What record?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    On cannabis and skunk. Very important article by Lord Monson. Now lead item on Telegraph

    "In February 2015, a study by Professor Robin Murray found that low-potency cannabis did not increase the chance of anyone becoming psychotic above the national average. But regular users of skunk had a five times higher chance of going – let us call it what it is – mad . Many enter a dark and scary portal from which they never return. Others, like Rupert, go so far as to kill themselves."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/fatherhood/super-strength-skunk-killed-son-campaigning-cannabis-legalised/


  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Borough, that does highlight a potential pitfall of legalisation. Legal cannabis would have to be softer, but making/getting the harder stuff would probably still be very easy, and the softer stuff might encourage more people to go down that road.

    Hard to assess, though.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Pulpstar said:

    India A must be miffed, only holding the record for a few hours !

    What record?
    The List A record is 496/4 by Surrey against Gloucs.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Once again England get a start but cannot convert at the death :(
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    Mr. Borough, that does highlight a potential pitfall of legalisation. Legal cannabis would have to be softer, but making/getting the harder stuff would probably still be very easy, and the softer stuff might encourage more people to go down that road.

    Hard to assess, though.

    Lord Monson suggests making skunk Class A, and legalizing and regulating normal cannabis.

    3/4 of the patients in one major acute mental ward had been users of skunk or spice apparently.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    On cannabis and skunk. Very important article by Lord Monson. Now lead item on Telegraph

    "In February 2015, a study by Professor Robin Murray found that low-potency cannabis did not increase the chance of anyone becoming psychotic above the national average. But regular users of skunk had a five times higher chance of going – let us call it what it is – mad . Many enter a dark and scary portal from which they never return. Others, like Rupert, go so far as to kill themselves."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/fatherhood/super-strength-skunk-killed-son-campaigning-cannabis-legalised/


    A very sad story, and the other case they mention has put me off my food.

    That being said, I don't buy the argument that high-potency stuff is bad so let's legalise the low-potency stuff.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    Let’s hope the EU don’t read the FT:

    https://twitter.com/ftbrussels/status/1009112024234774529?s=20
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    Typical English collapse in the cricket, disgusting.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Borough, an interesting proposal.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Let’s hope the EU don’t read the FT:

    twitter.com/ftbrussels/status/1009112024234774529?s=20

    They seem to have added the superfluous words "no deal" to the title.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956

    Pulpstar said:

    India A must be miffed, only holding the record for a few hours !

    What record?
    The List A record is 496/4 by Surrey against Gloucs.
    I thought so.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    edited June 2018

    twitter.com/GCHQ/status/1009105881638883328?s=20

    Na, Barnier told us to get real about security cooperation.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    I must be off. Play nicely, children.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489

    On cannabis and skunk. Very important article by Lord Monson. Now lead item on Telegraph

    "In February 2015, a study by Professor Robin Murray found that low-potency cannabis did not increase the chance of anyone becoming psychotic above the national average. But regular users of skunk had a five times higher chance of going – let us call it what it is – mad . Many enter a dark and scary portal from which they never return. Others, like Rupert, go so far as to kill themselves."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/fatherhood/super-strength-skunk-killed-son-campaigning-cannabis-legalised/


    'Skunk' was developed as a response to the legal states of Pot. By making it stronger/more compact the same value became smaller and thus easier to hide and transport, without detection.

    if it had never have been illegal, 'Skunk' probably would never have been developed, and in any case its use will decline in a environment where pot is legal
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956

    Once again England get a start but cannot convert at the death :(

    All the momentum is with Australia.

    Definitely going to back Australia to win the match now.

    If they do win it, I'm going to need a lot of retail therapy to deal with the pain.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,758
    Not really Joe's game this, is it?

    481 is just an astonishing score. I really can't see Australia getting close to that although some of our bowling is pretty ordinary at times.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    DavidL said:

    Not really Joe's game this, is it?

    481 is just an astonishing score. I really can't see Australia getting close to that although some of our bowling is pretty ordinary at times.

    We lost to Scotland 9 days ago after conceding nearly 400.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    maaarsh said:

    Typical English collapse in the cricket, disgusting.

    This would be the England already 2 0 up on Australia in the series?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    More campaign spirit being kept to by Trump. Will it help him in mid terms
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Of course rubbish given the Commons gas already voted to leave the Customs Union and Single Market
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    England are useless, this is a return to the bad old days.

    England didn't score a boundary off the bat in the last four overs and four balls.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841

    Pulpstar said:

    India A must be miffed, only holding the record for a few hours !

    What record?
    The List A record is 496/4 by Surrey against Gloucs.
    I thought so.
    Yes but that was against county level bowlers. Australia's are errm xD
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    BigRich said:

    On cannabis and skunk. Very important article by Lord Monson. Now lead item on Telegraph

    "In February 2015, a study by Professor Robin Murray found that low-potency cannabis did not increase the chance of anyone becoming psychotic above the national average. But regular users of skunk had a five times higher chance of going – let us call it what it is – mad . Many enter a dark and scary portal from which they never return. Others, like Rupert, go so far as to kill themselves."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/fatherhood/super-strength-skunk-killed-son-campaigning-cannabis-legalised/


    'Skunk' was developed as a response to the legal states of Pot. By making it stronger/more compact the same value became smaller and thus easier to hide and transport, without detection.

    if it had never have been illegal, 'Skunk' probably would never have been developed, and in any case its use will decline in a environment where pot is legal
    Is there evidence for this in jurisdictions where it has been decriminalised?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,758

    England are useless, this is a return to the bad old days.

    England didn't score a boundary off the bat in the last four overs and four balls.

    The 500 was on after that amazing blast from Morgan. If Buttler had not been moved up....

    But it may be that a new batsman may take a little time to get the timing right. Even Morgan started quite slowly when you think how he was finished. I really hope England's bowlers were watching that last 4 overs really carefully.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    HYUFD said:

    Of course rubbish given the Commons gas already voted to leave the Customs Union and Single Market
    That has nothing to do with 'no deal' in March 2019 as you surely must realise.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    Of course rubbish given the Commons gas already voted to leave the Customs Union and Single Market
    That has nothing to do with 'no deal' in March 2019 as you surely must realise.
    Of course it does as the Commons has decided the maximum deal May can agree with the EU is a Canada style FTA essentially, close to the Canada Plus FTA May actually wants
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557

    England are useless, this is a return to the bad old days.

    England didn't score a boundary off the bat in the last four overs and four balls.

    If only you had been there to cheer them on....

    Australia are not going to win. Usually, it’s easier to chase, but uninhibited batting isn’t mentally possible against a target of 480 plus.
    I don’t think they’ll get even close, and Rashid should be salivating.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T

    "The bargaining power story, however, has a simple and plausible explanation: globalization, operating mainly through corporate-orchestrated labor arbitrage—in the form of offshoring jobs to foreign workers or importing immigrants to compete with native workers—weakened the bargaining power of immobile native workers in the developed democracies. Employers’ use of a transnational “reserve army of labor” to discipline wage earners, together with the decline of private-sector unions and the transformation of political parties from grassroots organizations into brands purchased by rich donors and lobbies, is more than adequate to explain how the well-paid, highly unionized national proletariats of the 1960s were replaced on both sides of the Atlantic by the “precariats” of today. Had there been, say, 100 percent tariffs and zero immigration from the 1970s onward, there might be fewer auto workers in the United States thanks to automation, but they would probably be very well paid indeed. And in the absence of immigration, tight labor markets almost certainly would have boosted the wages of janitors, construction workers, health care aides, and others in purely domestic service industries, with the costs to working-class consumers of those services offset to some degree by higher workingclass wages in general."

    https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/05/classless-utopia-versus-class-compromise/
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    Nigelb said:

    England are useless, this is a return to the bad old days.

    England didn't score a boundary off the bat in the last four overs and four balls.

    If only you had been there to cheer them on....

    Australia are not going to win. Usually, it’s easier to chase, but uninhibited batting isn’t mentally possible against a target of 480 plus.
    I don’t think they’ll get even close, and Rashid should be salivating.
    This is the worst cricket attendance choice since my mate decided not to go to the fourth day of the 2005 Edgbaston Ashes test since he thought it was all over.

    I'll be there at Old Trafford on Sunday.

    I might even get to the Riverside on Thursday.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052
    edited June 2018

    Mr. Borough, that does highlight a potential pitfall of legalisation. Legal cannabis would have to be softer, but making/getting the harder stuff would probably still be very easy, and the softer stuff might encourage more people to go down that road.

    Hard to assess, though.

    Lord Monson suggests making skunk Class A, and legalizing and regulating normal cannabis.

    3/4 of the patients in one major acute mental ward had been users of skunk or spice apparently.
    When I worked in Psychiatry in South London, I saw plenty of Cannabis psychoses. This was usually in people that started as teenagers, but often persisted long after they went straight. It is bad news.

    Genuine investigation for medical use is fine, provided it is properly done, rather than anecdotal.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Of course rubbish given the Commons gas already voted to leave the Customs Union and Single Market
    That has nothing to do with 'no deal' in March 2019 as you surely must realise.
    Of course it does as the Commons has decided the maximum deal May can agree with the EU is a Canada style FTA essentially, close to the Canada Plus FTA May actually wants
    The withdrawal agreement is not that deal - it only deals with an orderly divorce process but will not contain an FTA. The no deal scenario is a disorderly exit in March 2019.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Nigelb said:

    England are useless, this is a return to the bad old days.

    England didn't score a boundary off the bat in the last four overs and four balls.

    If only you had been there to cheer them on....

    Australia are not going to win. Usually, it’s easier to chase, but uninhibited batting isn’t mentally possible against a target of 480 plus.
    I don’t think they’ll get even close, and Rashid should be salivating.
    This is the worst cricket attendance choice since my mate decided not to go to the fourth day of the 2005 Edgbaston Ashes test since he thought it was all over.

    I'll be there at Old Trafford on Sunday.

    I might even get to the Riverside on Thursday.
    Do you ever do any work?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    Just think how good this England team will be when Stokes comes back
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited June 2018

    Just think how good this England team will be when Stokes comes back

    And woakes....

    I would drop Willey...then who else do we drop?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956

    Nigelb said:

    England are useless, this is a return to the bad old days.

    England didn't score a boundary off the bat in the last four overs and four balls.

    If only you had been there to cheer them on....

    Australia are not going to win. Usually, it’s easier to chase, but uninhibited batting isn’t mentally possible against a target of 480 plus.
    I don’t think they’ll get even close, and Rashid should be salivating.
    This is the worst cricket attendance choice since my mate decided not to go to the fourth day of the 2005 Edgbaston Ashes test since he thought it was all over.

    I'll be there at Old Trafford on Sunday.

    I might even get to the Riverside on Thursday.
    Do you ever do any work?
    I'm very lucky that I have to schedule meetings at cricket matches.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956

    Just think how good this England team will be when Stokes comes back

    And woakes....

    I would drop Willey...then who else do we drop?
    Wood.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    The outcome is wanted by some though. Barnier probably isn't one of them, nor May, but it looks quite likely.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715

    Just think how good this England team will be when Stokes comes back

    And woakes....

    I would drop Willey...then who else do we drop?
    I'm a bit nervous about suggesting anything about dropping anyone!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Nigelb said:

    England are useless, this is a return to the bad old days.

    England didn't score a boundary off the bat in the last four overs and four balls.

    If only you had been there to cheer them on....

    Australia are not going to win. Usually, it’s easier to chase, but uninhibited batting isn’t mentally possible against a target of 480 plus.
    I don’t think they’ll get even close, and Rashid should be salivating.
    This is the worst cricket attendance choice since my mate decided not to go to the fourth day of the 2005 Edgbaston Ashes test since he thought it was all over.

    I'll be there at Old Trafford on Sunday.

    I might even get to the Riverside on Thursday.
    Do you ever do any work?
    I'm very lucky that I have to schedule meetings at cricket matches.
    How convenient....imagine if you had relocated to Paris...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Just think how good this England team will be when Stokes comes back

    And woakes....

    I would drop Willey...then who else do we drop?
    Wood.
    If only we had this strength in depth in the test team...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956

    Nigelb said:

    England are useless, this is a return to the bad old days.

    England didn't score a boundary off the bat in the last four overs and four balls.

    If only you had been there to cheer them on....

    Australia are not going to win. Usually, it’s easier to chase, but uninhibited batting isn’t mentally possible against a target of 480 plus.
    I don’t think they’ll get even close, and Rashid should be salivating.
    This is the worst cricket attendance choice since my mate decided not to go to the fourth day of the 2005 Edgbaston Ashes test since he thought it was all over.

    I'll be there at Old Trafford on Sunday.

    I might even get to the Riverside on Thursday.
    Do you ever do any work?
    I'm very lucky that I have to schedule meetings at cricket matches.
    How convenient....imagine if you had relocated to Paris...
    It is 50/50 that I end up getting relocated to Germany, thanks Brexiteers.

    Paris is what three hours away from Lord's and The Oval.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    HYUFD said:

    Of course rubbish given the Commons gas already voted to leave the Customs Union and Single Market
    That has nothing to do with 'no deal' in March 2019 as you surely must realise.
    No Deal? Who cares! I'd get rid of Folkestone and Hythe as well. Will of the people.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,545

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Of course rubbish given the Commons gas already voted to leave the Customs Union and Single Market
    That has nothing to do with 'no deal' in March 2019 as you surely must realise.
    Of course it does as the Commons has decided the maximum deal May can agree with the EU is a Canada style FTA essentially, close to the Canada Plus FTA May actually wants
    The withdrawal agreement is not that deal - it only deals with an orderly divorce process but will not contain an FTA. The no deal scenario is a disorderly exit in March 2019.
    But if there is no withdrawal agreement by December it's very hard to see how a disorderly exit could be avoided whatever parliament did. How could 650 MPs agree something in 3 months which has eluded the government for nearly 3 years?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    The Aussies are ahead of the rate.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Of course rubbish given the Commons gas already voted to leave the Customs Union and Single Market
    That has nothing to do with 'no deal' in March 2019 as you surely must realise.
    Of course it does as the Commons has decided the maximum deal May can agree with the EU is a Canada style FTA essentially, close to the Canada Plus FTA May actually wants
    The withdrawal agreement is not that deal - it only deals with an orderly divorce process but will not contain an FTA. The no deal scenario is a disorderly exit in March 2019.
    But if there is no withdrawal agreement by December it's very hard to see how a disorderly exit could be avoided whatever parliament did. How could 650 MPs agree something in 3 months which has eluded the government for nearly 3 years?
    Parliament asks for an extension of Article 50.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Willey is going to go for buckets loads here.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    kle4 said:

    The outcome is wanted by some though. Barnier probably isn't one of them, nor May, but it looks quite likely.
    I think Barnier and Selmayer want that outcome, it would allow them to start pushing for a proper EU intelligence service independent of national ones. The gap in EU intelligence could be filled by Brussels spooks who will lock people up for criticism of the EU.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Of course rubbish given the Commons gas already voted to leave the Customs Union and Single Market
    That has nothing to do with 'no deal' in March 2019 as you surely must realise.
    Of course it does as the Commons has decided the maximum deal May can agree with the EU is a Canada style FTA essentially, close to the Canada Plus FTA May actually wants
    The withdrawal agreement is not that deal - it only deals with an orderly divorce process but will not contain an FTA. The no deal scenario is a disorderly exit in March 2019.
    The divorce deal ie on citizens rights and the exit bill was effectively agreed in December with only a bit of haggling over how much regulatory alignment is needed to avoid a hard border in Ireland still to go.

    If there is not even a divorce deal completed then in theory we could start to see deportations of EU citizens from the UK and UK citizens from the EU
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    Random comment apropos of nothing.

    Stood outside the Hammersmith Apollo waiting to watch David Byrne in concert. Lady moving up and down the queue hoping to get any US citizens to register to vote.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,545

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Of course rubbish given the Commons gas already voted to leave the Customs Union and Single Market
    That has nothing to do with 'no deal' in March 2019 as you surely must realise.
    Of course it does as the Commons has decided the maximum deal May can agree with the EU is a Canada style FTA essentially, close to the Canada Plus FTA May actually wants
    The withdrawal agreement is not that deal - it only deals with an orderly divorce process but will not contain an FTA. The no deal scenario is a disorderly exit in March 2019.
    But if there is no withdrawal agreement by December it's very hard to see how a disorderly exit could be avoided whatever parliament did. How could 650 MPs agree something in 3 months which has eluded the government for nearly 3 years?
    Parliament asks for an extension of Article 50.
    I don't think we can be certain that the EU would agree to that. For how long and what strategy would be in place to continue negotiations? The UK is quite incapable of deciding what relationship it wants with the EU and if we got into a no deal position the various factions would become even more entrenched and divisions even more bitter.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Of course rubbish given the Commons gas already voted to leave the Customs Union and Single Market
    That has nothing to do with 'no deal' in March 2019 as you surely must realise.
    Of course it does as the Commons has decided the maximum deal May can agree with the EU is a Canada style FTA essentially, close to the Canada Plus FTA May actually wants
    The withdrawal agreement is not that deal - it only deals with an orderly divorce process but will not contain an FTA. The no deal scenario is a disorderly exit in March 2019.
    But if there is no withdrawal agreement by December it's very hard to see how a disorderly exit could be avoided whatever parliament did. How could 650 MPs agree something in 3 months which has eluded the government for nearly 3 years?
    Parliament asks for an extension of Article 50.
    I don't think we can be certain that the EU would agree to that. For how long and what strategy would be in place to continue negotiations? The UK is quite incapable of deciding what relationship it wants with the EU and if we got into a no deal position the various factions would become even more entrenched and divisions even more bitter.
    A disorderly Brexit is also bad for the EU and several EU countries in particular.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Of course rubbish given the Commons gas already voted to leave the Customs Union and Single Market
    That has nothing to do with 'no deal' in March 2019 as you surely must realise.
    Of course it does as the Commons has decided the maximum deal May can agree with the EU is a Canada style FTA essentially, close to the Canada Plus FTA May actually wants
    The withdrawal agreement is not that deal - it only deals with an orderly divorce process but will not contain an FTA. The no deal scenario is a disorderly exit in March 2019.
    But if there is no withdrawal agreement by December it's very hard to see how a disorderly exit could be avoided whatever parliament did. How could 650 MPs agree something in 3 months which has eluded the government for nearly 3 years?
    Parliament asks for an extension of Article 50.
    I don't think we can be certain that the EU would agree to that. For how long and what strategy would be in place to continue negotiations? The UK is quite incapable of deciding what relationship it wants with the EU and if we got into a no deal position the various factions would become even more entrenched and divisions even more bitter.
    I think the scenario where Article 50 is extended beyond the European elections is fascinating to contemplate. Imagine an ad hoc, single issue, pro-Remain party standing and turning it into a de facto referendum.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited June 2018
    1/2

    There is a large correlation causation argument people sometimes miss in their argument.

    Just as many of those with mental health problems will have tried weed, they will also smoked tobacco and consumed alcohol.

    I imagine those with mental health problems are attracted to such things, they are often people with bad childhoods and people who have grown up in poor environments. Many people with far better lives like to escape/unwind/enjoy themselves with these things people who have suffered will be far more attracted to them.

    Alcohol isn't a good example as it does cause mental illness but (as far as I know) tobacco doesn't, yet you would probably find a high correlation between smokers and those with mental health problems.

    I am slightly suspicious of the 'super skunk' argument. As someone who has smoked it and knows people who smoke it I would for an example call normal weed beer, this 'super skunk' wine. Now wine is a good bit stronger than beer, on a night out you might drink 8 pints of beer but 8 pints of wine would be a hell of a lot. People would just drink less wine than they would beer, people who have problems or just want to black out will just drink the amount they needed. Wine might make it a little easier for them admittedly.

    Also from my person experience it was the law that helped drive the move to green or skunk if you prefer in the first place. Lots of people I knew moved from smoking rocky, a brown hard lump that you burn and sprinkle, to green because the supply of rocky just dried up and you couldn't get it anymore. It was more expensive so you had less but it was stronger, then over a short period of time the green became stronger as the idea seemed to be to grow stronger give less weight out per £.

    TBH health wise the move from rocky to green seemed a good one to me as rocky was terrible on your lungs (very thick smoke). Admittedly it is a very complicated thing to ask and many things to do with the brain are still beyond our understanding but I'm pretty sure there isn't any proof that an adult (say a 21 year old) will be turned mad (to use a word used earlier) by weed, the most serious charge I've seen put against it in that case is that it could help trigger those who already have the underlying symptoms.

    It does cause other things, obviously shouldn't drive or operate heavy machinery, or any of the things you shouldn't do drunk or extremely tired, it can reduce your appetite with medium to heavy usage. If you use it heavily and stop you can have trouble sleeping. Probably some things I've missed.

    There are of course some effects whilst you are using it but they are mainly the point of it and fade when the high wears off.

    Should legalise it and tax it. Use part of the money to fund any problems it causes or campaigns to get people not to use it.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    Mr. Borough, that does highlight a potential pitfall of legalisation. Legal cannabis would have to be softer, but making/getting the harder stuff would probably still be very easy, and the softer stuff might encourage more people to go down that road.

    Hard to assess, though.

    Lord Monson suggests making skunk Class A, and legalizing and regulating normal cannabis.

    3/4 of the patients in one major acute mental ward had been users of skunk or spice apparently.
    "Skunk OR SPICE"

    So how many on skunk? Because spice is NOT marijuana. It's a bullshit stat without that.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    2/2

    Most people see little harm in cannabis, so they see little harm in an illegal drug, this not only leads to people dismissing the government's advice as if they are wrong on this why not other things. It also normalises going to a drug dealer for many people, some of whom will either directly get you harder drugs or help set you up with people who can.

    It isn't a gateway drug in terms of you use it and that makes you want to use others more, any more than a smoker or a drinker progresses to harder drugs because those drugs make them want to, it is in terms of opening up the world of illegal drugs to people. If you take out the softest part that a lot of people have sympathy with you make the step up to illegal drugs a lot bigger.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    2/2

    Most people see little harm in cannabis, so they see little harm in an illegal drug, this not only leads to people dismissing the government's advice as if they are wrong on this why not other things. It also normalises going to a drug dealer for many people, some of whom will either directly get you harder drugs or help set you up with people who can.

    It isn't a gateway drug in terms of you use it and that makes you want to use others more, any more than a smoker or a drinker progresses to harder drugs because those drugs make them want to, it is in terms of opening up the world of illegal drugs to people. If you take out the softest part that a lot of people have sympathy with you make the step up to illegal drugs a lot bigger.

    Very good post. I'm pretty sure I agree with all of it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I don’t think many people would be against the use of cannabis-based medecines, properly tested and regulated, to relieve pain, help cure diseases etc.

    That is not the same as saying that the sort of skunk which can cause serious problems should be legally freely available to all and sundry.

    True Los Angeles story. We have a friend with a beautiful bassett hound, which sadly has liver cancer. Dog is undergoing chemotherapy, and was wasting away as won't eat. Dog is fed cannabis, and now has decent appetite, and is improving.

    Beware of extrapolation from small datasets.
    They should ask their vet for Entyce - FDA approved for treatment of Canine inappetance
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited June 2018
    Pulpstar said:

    More campaign spirit being kept to by Trump. Will it help him in mid terms
    That bastion of Liberty, democracy and gay rights - Saudi Arabia - is a member of the human rights council.

    Frankly any country that executes people just for being gay shouldn't be allowed anywhere near it!
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    Mr. Borough, that does highlight a potential pitfall of legalisation. Legal cannabis would have to be softer, but making/getting the harder stuff would probably still be very easy, and the softer stuff might encourage more people to go down that road.

    Hard to assess, though.

    Lord Monson suggests making skunk Class A, and legalizing and regulating normal cannabis.

    3/4 of the patients in one major acute mental ward had been users of skunk or spice apparently.
    "Skunk OR SPICE"

    So how many on skunk? Because spice is NOT marijuana. It's a bullshit stat without that.
    Spice is (one of) the reason(s) we should legalise marijuana. I've known 2 people who have tried the 'legal highs' like spice and other stuff because they couldn't get marijuana at the time and they had horrific experiences, people who have tried some other illegal drugs as well.

    People seem to think it is a cheap legal weed when from what I've heard the stuff is utterly toxic.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,262
    She's an open book... but unfortunatley the pages are blank.
This discussion has been closed.